1.21.2024 City Council - Public Works & Transportation

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Committee on Public works and transportations will now convene the clerk will call the role here here pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are

deemed acknowledged and permissible um I councelor Pont had had a previous engagement so he's not able to attend this evening um but he did let us know of that commitment so the first thing on our agenda is Citizens input but I believe everybody that's here is involved in the discussion so we'll now move to I just did uh to approve the minutes from March 5th 2024 motion to approve second all in

favor I I not uh motion passes number three is an order for New England power company transmission line petition copicut road and quanap road referred on 114 2025 we have a number of individuals here I would actually like to invite everybody to the table um can we

fit um

so all right you know what maybe we'll hold Mr a

anything I got

you okay if everyone at the table could first state their name address uh for the record Sarah Riley 1679 copicut Road oh Bethany Roa Data Drive wal Ms Joshua Lee Smith 311 Main Street Worcester David Baron National Grid 100 Data Drive Massachusetts Jamie Durant Power Engineers two Hampshire Street Foxboro Massachusetts Marissa pizy National 100 Data Drive W Massachusetts thank you um

I'm going to start off with Miss Riley um that you can State your concerns um once you've done that I'm going to have the representatives address the concerns um make their stand on on you know in response and then we'll go from there okay thank you um I have a list here of um what the copcut neighborhood is on record for requesting with the efsb hearings of National Grid

um and I also have my own like agenda as well here on the top the second page is the um the requests of the neighborhood association um some of these are pertinent issues to this subcommittee and others are pertinent to potentially other subcommittees um particularly um environmental and Public Safety but here uh I think that we what we're here to address today is the quanap uh River Culvert and koput Road

infrast structure um I have some maps here if anyone want to take a look at the maps pass those around did a beautiful job Jamie okay uh I have um a number of um information requests that were um given to the EFS regarding deterioration of copicut Road and um National Grids response to them um this particular one is about the deterioration of copot road I I will offer some evidence of the deterioration

of the paved part of the road um essentially they're talking about um filling potholes with Crush Stone and surface grading um on the the unpaved parts of copicut Road and not necessarily for the paved sections of the road which are not underneath power lines but copot road is the only egress to quanap road crossing and to the copot road crossing on the dirt portion of the road um and it's already in a

significant disrepair um and so um I'll pass those along so just just to clarify so the section of road that you're speaking about would be in our jurisdiction it would be Fall River would be responsible for that road road repair wouldn't it it's not included in their project is that what you're saying I would say the copicut road the paved portion of copicut road is not involved in their project but it

will be the egress for all of the construction with the heavyduty construction equipment passing down that one road which is um a residential Road and already in significant disrepair there are potholes I can skip ahead if you'd like and um got a fair amount of photographic documentation of the quality of the road one two these are all different images of different portions of copicut Road

those are the ones that were in your email they were yeah I didn't know whether or not they would they printed all the photographs out okay all right so uh that's essentially the portion of the road that the residents are using for our only egress and if there is it's already in this degree of disrepair and we have heavy duty construction equipment um f bunchers and you know log

trucks Etc um you know it's going to be in even more disrepair after the construction um I know that they have discussed some measures on the on the portions of the road underneath the lines in in terms of repair but the pave section of the road is what permits things like ambulances and police to get to our neighborhoods when we need to and again that's a public safety issue but

um for infrastructure infrastructure and Public Safety I think are kind of hand inand um also so um the matter of the quantum so these are all sorts of information requests that I can show about what they're essentially planning on doing for the um uh for the construction um of the roads or the Recon or the repair of the roads but also um related to the quanap Pug Road Culvert I can

pass those along to you guys the quanap road Culvert uh in 2010 was and again you guys have this documentation was 15 in underwater there were I mean it was essentially in Niagara Falls over the south end of the Culvert uh it was 15 in above the water grade there's never been any repairs to that area um I have let's see my affidavit I print it out for you guys a damage assessment of the quanap

road cul they do have that yeah as well as appendixes of the photographic damage um this shows uh the you know the photographs you guys have all seen But if I can just get the um the written

report excuse me this is a small section of the paperwork that I have okay so um essentially what Laura Davis um which is a structural masonry specialist had done was put together a damage assessment report of the Culvert dated 51222 and her observations were 2-in concrete uh 70 di 70in diameter covert with extensive rebar exposure and underd designed for the traffic uh the soil

abutments are badly eroded and there's a limited measure for erosion control Timber retaining elements are hollowed out from erosion and are unsupported the dirt and gravel road has a significant number of potholes and is regraded only occasionally um there are high water levels during High rains um these conditions have persisted unabated for many years uh I spoke already about the 2,000

flood waters and the damage and the lack of of uh repair afterwards we used to have um some um uh telephone pole uh rails on either side there are no longer um um any on the North side and it's significantly eroded uh the access to the copicut river directly underneath um is in question in fact I always tell folks that traffic to the gun range to be really careful on the North side

because um it's a matter of an accident waiting to happen we've had a lot of dumping over that in in um in that area we've actually even seen a boat dumped into the north part of the copicut river um her technical recommendation was that the Culvert be assessed by a civil engineer for H20 load rating and the pipe is likely insufficient to support heavy trucks which um National Grid

plans to park a fell buncher right over directly over the Culvert in order to um cut trees along that area of the road um there's clear evidence of extensive steel corrosion there's not enough Road coverage over the pipe a civil engineer needs to verify the structural Integrity of the pipe um and so we would be um the other thing is that she would recommend um uh adequate that remediation could

require adequate pipe replacement cast in Wing walls uh adequate Road cover abutment reconstruction or guard rails National Grid has agreed to put guard rails in but there is so much erosion particularly on the north side of that Culvert that um it's questionable whether or not they could sustain guard rails um that's pretty much it for the

Culvert um the other issues on that list um that the Copa neighborhood association has requested again fall under the opes of Public Safety and Health and environmental and I would ask that you um recommend to full councel Council to refer those other matters to those independent subcommittees um excuse me Council propos it so after this meeting some of the topics that we you already brought

up at the full council meeting is going be a resolution be filed to bring I'm the chairman of environmental Affairs so that's going to go to my subcommittee and we'll probably file one for Public Safety as well okay for those other things so wonder I yield thank you that's pretty much it okay um who would like to speak first so uh first of all well thank you for having us here and is this nope not

sounding like it no you want to grab the other one next to you sir just use that one okay that use when that lights up great so again for the record Josh Lee Smith I'm outside Council for National Grid and thank you for uh having us here today um uh as I mentioned uh previously there's this project has goes back back many many years uh all the way back to

2018 um in terms of its formality uh but prior to that there was there studies that were done um addressing the need uh the urgent need uh as determined by ISO New England uh to enhance and upgrade uh the reliability and increase the capacity with respect to the uh uh reliability of of electric service for not only Fall River but a number of other communities um uh that are uh that

receive service from both uh National GD as well as eversource and uh so there are a number of communities that I think would be looking at Fall River uh as we are going through this assessment here um to the extent certainly that this project gets held up uh as I mentioned towards the end of that that first meeting that we had with the city council uh the the request the simple

request really straightforward I should say not simple but the straightforward request uh that we petitioned for uh that is before the city council and technically is is before this committee pertains to the the grant of locations uh these are Street Crossings with respect to in this case transmission lines um there's only two streets that we're talking about here that uh quite frankly is is the jurisdiction uh we're

more than happy to uh answer and address any any number of questions that you may have uh with with respect to the project over overall um and I do want to say that not only U Sarah Riley but also uh other neighbors uh certainly other City officials uh uh and uh state agencies and uh boards commissions have had have vetted this project have had their opportunities to have a number of

questions asked and answered um there's literally hundreds of pages of of documentation with respect to uh the efsb process Alone um locally uh the and I did submit to this committee which also a copy of uh of this was also submitted to the your your colleagues at the city council uh this a couple of documents that just lay out the extensive amount of communications that the company has had uh in connection

with this project go again going all the way back to 2018 uh and it's ongoing uh this is a dialogue that is that is ongoing and you know Sarah lives there uh she's a resident she's a volunteer uh you know it's it's impressive the amount of um I think volunteerism that she's taken on in terms of picking up those Bobbers that was quite impactful I think um that was the first time that I've

been in a meeting where where Sarah's been in attendance but i' I've my understanding is that she's I think at the concom uh she also shared shared that information as well uh the point being that this this project is it's it's clearly it's important I think we can all agree on that um it affects not only Fall River but other communities uh it is time sensitive this is a project that again goes back years has been

vetted there's been a huge amount of time and effort with respect to the company doing its due diligence um mitigation efforts working with people like Sarah Riley um to get to the point where we're in 2025 right now again going back to 2018 all the way now we are at the point where the company is ready to break ground on this project so I just want to put uh that in in context

I don't want to get on a soap box for too long but I I just wanted to remind uh what we are what we came to to this to the council for in the first place uh there were actually two petitions the other one flew through easily uh which in my experience and in probably 90% of the cases that's in in other jur in other communities but including Fall River uh we've come to

the this Council before with respect to Grants of locations there've been sort of no-brainers but in this case because of where this is uh I think probably the length of the line the the amount of the clear tree clearing that's involved the proximity to the reservoir of course um those things people put the pause button on which we understand uh but I do want to just uh everyone just have in the

backs of their minds that that what we are seeking is literally just a grant of location uh for this project we are looking to commence as early as March of this year if that doesn't happen as I'm sure you can imagine um like any developer but especially with respect to Public Utilities uh who have to answer to their constituents have to answer to rate payers have to answer to uh the

efsb uh a number of of different agencies their timelines are especially sensitive um and bottom line is this is a project that that is all about reliability which also means safety it's it's about public good but it's also about safety uh in terms of its need and it's we're talking about the Citizens We're talking about people that live here people that have businesses here institutions the company is looking to

keep the lights on uh they're not looking to Ram anything down anyone's throats uh again this goes back to 2018 hundreds of hundreds of pages of Discovery uh and responses information requests and so uh I just want to make that clear that this is this is a project that has it's not in the category of something that has not been well thought out it's it's an extreme understatement to say uh that

this project has has been fully vetted so with that um I'd like to hand it over to the the real experts on the table um who can address some of Sarah's uh Sarah some of Sarah's comments thank you

hi uh Jamie Duran from Power Engineers um so I guess into response to some of the things that Sarah brought up um it is true that one of the access ways onto the RightWay is to use copicut Road and we understand that that section is paved that will not be the only Ingress and egress to uh the RightWay we have multiple locations but that is one um what we've committed to is we're

going to do you know a video inspection of that paved portion of the road and after construction if it's determined that we've um you know made it worse if we've uh made problems on the road we will correct those if it means repaving or whatever it needs we'll take care of that section road but it is a public road it does provide access to our RightWay so we plan to use it um also

secondly yes cop portions of Copa Road and qu poag Road uh the bio Reserve you know are unimproved um and they need some they need some work so to get our equipment our Personnel our construction vehicles we need to make some Road improvements so that is that is the plan we don't plan on repaving those we don't plan on putting in a you know an official uh storm uh you know storm

water sewer system but we will make improvements for safety and after construction you know we'll meet with City officials and improve it to the degree they want it um I would like to it correct for for the Culver Crossing on qu poag road we don't plan on on parking any vehicles on top of that Culvert um we plan on using that section of the road um but we're not you know

physically going parking uh we did do an inspection uh of that Culvert uh we have multiple documents where with the Massachusetts efsb we talk about the inspection we did um we did not identify significant deterioration um or in ability of the Culver it is an old Culver I think it was installed around 65 we did check with records of the um the city they do have records of what was proposed but

there aren't much in as buil well we and we also we do have the city engineer here who can okay uh speak to that and we did uh you the plans that we did get we did do an engineering assessment of the Culvert and we assume that since it's a public road and it's like a 66 in our CP Culvert that um our assumption was it was designed like for h10 loading

something like for an ambulance or a fire truck so that is the assumption that we made for that Culvert and so we looked at the types of equipment and the most conservative type of equipment like a heavy Crane and so our proposal is to put 1 and A2 inch steel plates over that Culvert during construction so we can disperse the weight of the equipment again PRI to construction you know we'll

do a video inspection of of the Culvert and after construction we'll do a similar inspection and you know if if it can be determined that we did something to impact that we would we would you know work with the city to repair it you know simply replacing it isn't you know it's a public it's a public road it's for city of Fall River asset it's not our asset that in itself is a

significant project uh just replacing the cver we have to work with you know the cobut reservoir we have to meet a bunch of DP standards I mean that we're into building transmission lines not Road building and Culver building um so we did submit you know this information to the the Massachusetts um efsb um in regards to let's see here um those are the road crossing just a few other things I just wanted to mention

was mentioned the other subcommittees that may go to so I guess from environmental you know we have been working on this project for a number of years as uh as Josh indicated um we are in front of the Massachusetts efsb uh we went to the Executive Office of Environmental Affairs for an enf and environmental impact report uh we're in front of the Department of Environmental Protection for a water quality

certificate for this project uh we'll be submitting a nip National pollutant discharge elimination system permit application and Stor pollution prevention plan with with US EPA um we're working to get a conservation and management plan permit from natural heritage program and also an order of conditions from the Fall River Conservation Commission so in the Army Corps of Engineers New England

division so you know most of the federal state local agencies that you could think about that maybe looking at this project we have been in front of well in terms I just want to clarify um in terms of sending things to others uh committees that that that would be separate and apart from this I think we're trying to look at this from multiple points of view from a from the safety point of view environmental point

of view and then this meeting is strictly your project and what's going on so uh this isn't going to be this is in its entirety is not going to be carried over into other committees we're going to we're going to access the other committees to address the pollutants to address the safety hazard so it's I don't want you to think that it's going to keep snowballing okay and then just also um the health

and safety you know we are required through you know meepa through the efsb process and all and also just National Grid standard practices and codes you know have certain safety and health procedures so not only for safety of the crews but for safety of the public when it comes to you know construction impacts um impacts to the environment again we're we won't do this project until we have all our environmental

purpose permits and approvals National Grid has a document called um environmental guidance document number 303 that lists all the um contractor requirements for soil and Ro control water quality control Environmental Compliance monitoring so um I guess that's what I I'll just respond with that I'll be happy to answer additional questions unless someone else from grid has something else to

add can I just say a couple things sure um no National Grid has been um doing their due diligence on all of the topics I believe um I I just want to point out that um as far as water quality they're they're not planning on water quality testing through the so I think environmental is important to address that um and Conservation Commission has not um passed judgment on this nor has the energy facility sighting board

passed judgment um or their ruling rather on um on the evident hearings from last year um as far as it being a time sensitive Pro project certainly I've been involved in this project since 2019 my briefcase is barely something I can lift um but um time sensitive emergently I would say no it shouldn't be I mean um given that Conservation Commission hasn't done their due diligence yet and nor has the

efsb I think it's preemptive that the city passing a judgment on it until the state has so I don't know that there it's I mean emergent and until efsb has passed their ruling so first off um we have received our order of conditions our permit from the fall of a Conservation Commission oh I wasn't so we do have that and then the efsb we have been through all of the discovery and evidentiary hearings which

Mr Riley participated in um so the efsb has all the information now it's just a matter of them making the decision I don't want to speak for them but I know they have Staffing issues and they're also working on a a sighting Reform Act which kind of takes precedence sometimes over project so that's why Dave indicated or S Joshua indicated that you know if we can start work in March we

would but again we're hoping that's based on maybe getting efsb approval in that time frame now if they I guess this would be my ignorance um so if are you able to proceed without their determination no because of the the length of the project and it's a 115 kV line uh we need their perit a certificate to construct this project so even if the city council approves this and moves It Forward the March timeline doesn't

happen unless they give their approval that's correct okay if I could just I don't know if this is Marissa pizy so I'm in house citing Council for National Grid and have been extensively involved in the sighting board process and just to give a little bit of I guess context and a flavor for that process we we filed our petition back in December of 2021 um the process has been a lengthy

one not not so much because of the complexity of this project but as Jamie um indicated there have been some staffing and resourcing issues that have caused it to lag a little bit but we did have our evidentiary hearings I believe it was in December of 2023 um it's been fully briefed including by m Riley um and that and that process um is is very in-depth and extensive and part

of what the sighting board is charged to do by Statute is to weigh the need for the project against the cost um and the environmental impacts and and it's it only authorizes a project if it can find that it the project is needed um is is reliable and it serves um the public at with the least environmental impact so we are obligated to put forth Alternatives extensive environmental

impact analysis um and so in addition to all of the state agencies that Mr Durant just went through um the sighting board looks very very closely at environmental impact safety those kinds of things and um Miss Riley's the information request she put in um I think that she uh shared this evening um is among the evidentiary record in addition to dozens of others that the sighting board requested of us

the responses that we submitted to her requests alone are over a 100 pages that we'd be happy to share with you if you for some light read but it this has certainly been um we've we've worked I think you know we're not strangers and and I think as Mr R has indicated we' we've worked with her not only through the sighting board process but through our own Outreach efforts really try to

address and minimize her concerns which um I think the a lot of the mitigation that we have agreed to already is is sort of evidence of that of our Cooperative um you know the Cooperative way that we've tried to approach this project so uh just wanted to give a little bit of information on the sighting board process we do expect that a decision will issue um sometime in this early spring so we are

at least expecting that by that March time frame they will have issued a decision but you know obviously that's not not a guarantee okay um I do want to just acknowledge that it's more than just speaking for myself I'm speaking for my neighborhood and the 105,000 people who drink water from the copicut reservoir as well oh understood understood yes no um and actually what you do and what the

community does is very impressive um but I I just wanted to address where you know you made the statement that for us to put it through wouldn't be responsible because they don't have that um determination yet but it does if we put it through it doesn't start unless they approve it so and they obviously would be the ultimate um experts on and to determine whether the project should go forward or

not do we have any other comments because I'd also like to have our city officials come down to respond to some of this as

well yeah if if the two of you would like if a couple of you would like to stay would be fine

want me to startop yes sir this one works no that one's the one that doesn't there you go good evening um for the record my name is Dan agar I'm the director of engineering and planning I'm also the city engineer and Conservation Commission agent for the city of Fall River Paul furland the administrator of community utilities overse water and SE for the city Michael Bost the city's Watershed

Forester so if I can we can back up a few meetings ago I was actually in the audience the first night that this petition came before just by happen stance I didn't know that was on that evening because I do get involved in in some of the aspects of RightWay grants uh for utility companies not necessarily in how it impacts this project I think what's very important is to understand

the scope of what's actually before the council um although Miss Riley's concerns are valid it's not an issue that is governed by the Fall River City Council the scope of what's before you today is this is the street from RightWay line to right of way line and we're going to hang wires or National Grid is going to hang a wire across this right of way that is a limited scope of

what is before you so essentially we're just basically allowing the use of airspace cross the street that's it and whe whether it would be underground they would be seeking the same permit right but then they would actually be conr conting something there are no polls there are no cabinets there is nothing within the right of way that's before you it's strictly to hang wires over the

street um and I think what's important is we we can talk about this project as a whole for weeks on end but you can see after tonight's presentation that there are a multitude of Permitting authorities throughout the Commonwealth and the federal government that reviews this project for all of the items that Mrs Riley has has raised there are some limited items that as a city we have

concerns about the covert about the right of way about the surface and we've gotten assurances from National Grid that they will leave the road in better condition than what they found it that's all you can require them to do as it being a public way if there's some damage that's caused to a culet due to one of their vehicles just like any other Street in the city they they're going to be traveling over potentially

20 miles of other public ways in the city of Fall River before they get to this one so does that mean your jurisdiction extends through those streets to make sure that that they're doing what they need to do on those streets so although all of sar's concerns are valid Beyond valid and I think National Grid is work to address them through the appropriate agencies that review for those items the council

is is very limited so I I would caution stepping beyond your bounds and and requiring or asking or even having the conversation about asking for anything um it's great that you've had this education to understand this process and it's a huge project um so I almost wouldn't want to give an opinion on anything beyond what this committee reviews and then in response to the city council itself uh I

can offer that items of concern of the conservation commission and the wetness protection act those items have all been addressed and their order of conditions has been issued um beyond that there are other permits from the Department of Environmental Protection water quality certifications that still need to take place natural heritage completion of the project is not done um but that is

pending so everywhere along the line there might end up being 20 different permitting agencies that touch this and Grant a level of permit they all can't wait till everyone else Acts you handle what's in your toolbox and what you're required to look at they check the box and they move on to the next one so I would advise the city and whether you want to ask legal councel the same

question is to only act with what's on your scope that's all I can offer but if you have any questions about you know I I'll be glad to answer the questions that Sarah has raised um but I don't necessarily think it's within your purview um I mean so your opinion on the cobbert so they've already discussed saying that they'll put the steel plates to disperse the weight correct that it's

simply driving over it nothing's going to sit there isn't going to be any excessive weight sitting on it putting any additional stress um right so as I stated there could be 30 other CTS that they're going to drive over within the city of Fall River to get to this location but we don't have concerns of those what we need to look at is this is a public way and we are charged with keeping it passible for

everyone um it's it's on for three years it's on my list along with a bunch of other streets in that vicinity of Paving making repairs DCM goes out so there's multiple hands that look at the condition of the road as it is now so the maintenance of the road the way that it is now is covered under DCM if we're going to reconstruct that road that falls under my department utilizing

chapter 90 funding or some other funding mechanism if it's a storm water related item that would fall under Paul's Department of of community utilities so everyone has a stake in what happens out here um but none of those things deal with hanging wires across the right of way yeah and from my point of view um I find it difficult to hold someone responsible for someone else's responsibility

or um and that's why sending this the environmental too it's in the same vein so we have people that are illegally dumping that are doing illicit things they shouldn't be doing I can't hold I can't hold them responsible for what another individual that's because somebody else is doing something illegal we have to hold that person responsible and I think through committees we're going to have to find a way to address

those issues and I I think those are separate and apart from to a certain extent from what we're discussing here would you agree with that that 100% yes I I do agree with that 100% And I do think there are improvements that can be made across the board in this location um beyond what national grit does thank you very much uh you know as uh Mr Agia said it's tough as it falls

underneath water in sewer uh there really wasn't much Within our jurisdiction or within our lane as far as permitting or anything else goes uh in relation to this project uh this project is very close to naturally the bioreserve which is uh the area that uh that Mr Laos and his staff and us work to protect and maintain uh as well as the water shed for the uh copicut reservoir uh that is our secondary

drinking water supply for the city uh so it is something that we uh that we did keep an eye on uh throughout uh the process as it goes through but again you have those certain um you know uh agencies whether it be Conservation Commission MD Amy Corp of Engineers that have their uh jurisdictions and permitting processes to go through uh to make sure that all the water quality standards and everything are in place uh

as far as National Grid as a whole goes uh in that area you know this isn't that they're putting in new lines they have existing lines they're expanding on their uh existing infrastructure uh and over the years they've been a good partner up in that area as far as uh security of their uh security of their easements go uh access uh around their easements uh being able to use their easements whether it's a

hiking trail that crosses those or for uh other Public Access uh you know uh requests that we've uh that we've had within there so you know as far as National Grid um as as the company I feel uh and Mike may be able to be more elaborate on how you know how we've worked with them in the past but you know historically they have been good partners up in that

area I don't know if you want to elab elaborate on that honestly councils I don't have much to add because as as you know Mr Mr agar said it's a pretty narrow it's a pretty narrow Focus that they came before the council for uh you know initially um you know National Grid has had um easements out there since 1960 so that's you know uh over 50 years of of cooperation um you know I'm the Forester

I deal with conservation issues so you know the the easement itself is is uh um is incidental uh the easements cross the bioreserve in a couple of different places almost 10 miles of easement uh 150 foot wide easements and um the way we interact with uh the electric company really is through operations and we've had a really good run with uh you know working with uh various Ops out in

the field um as Paul said relating to access issues gate issues helping us with security being responsive especially during storms it's really important to coordinate when when you know when they're the lines just sit out there but when when when uh when it matters is when when they cruising are coming out to do work that's scheduled you know we have good coordination with them uh we know when they're coming out

there they let us know they have certain procedures they have to use uh especially within the Watershed itself and things they can and can't do so um you know we we rely on a good operational relationship which I think we have with National Grid um so I think the other the other matters have been have been dealt with already in terms of you know uh uh engineering things which aren't really my specialty

Council proposal excuse me thank you Mr laasia I think one of the first conversations I think Council of Washington brought up was the trees right now I know the gentleman mentioned the Conservation Commission gave a list of what was it called again conditions what was orders of conditions orders of conditions so just to satisfy that first initial concern of the trees what was the conservation commission's position

on the tree clearing that's yeah Mr AG good so when when the the commission when the applicant submits What's called the notice of intent and that's that's the permiting format that you submit for the construction activity that gets reviewed for compliance with the wetlands protection act and performance standards everything that you do has a specific performance standard if you want to put in a

swimming pool if you want to build a house if you want to put in power lines so you look at the need for clearing the trees how many trees do you need to clear to put in the shed how many trees do you need to clear to put in these power lines which the location the height the amount of clearing that you need to do is dictated by engineering

not by well I want a bigger backyard or I want 50 ft around my shed so I can drive it you know my my truck around it so I think when when we look at it we look to see have they minimized and that's really what the wellness prote protection act does is have they minimized their impact to the environment and if they have then the Conservation Commission has to permit what they have

proposed that being said we did discuss the swath of trees that get removed when I sat and I listened to to councelor uh Samson's um remarks someone had said well are you going to put trees back well you can't put trees back in that Cara because then what purpose does it serve taking them down other than that 20 years you'll have to cut them back down again um but there there are locations where other

types of supplemental plantings outside of this Lane are required and will be taking place in some other mitigation areas um going beyond that I can't offer an idea or a recommendation on what other types of planting programs throughout the city should be discussed I I I won't be a party to that um so that discussion can can take place so yes during the Conservation Commission permitting the

amount of trees being disturbed uh the environment the locations of these trees whether they're in Wetland areas whether they're in endangered species habitat areas that's all gets considered and that also gets reviewed by authorities with experts far beyond my own and anybody on this commission um and a lot of that is in the process and coming up to the Finish Line uh that's all I can

offer as far as that goes that's is my question I guil thank you um yeah right in here I have a list of um items for mitigating some of the concerns and this one addresses that tree removal within area paralleling uh copicut Reservoir will be restored with supplemental plantings of native low growing shrubs that will provide thicker vegetation uh vegetative buffer to the reservoir increasing natural erosion

control and enhancing biodiversity of wildlife habitat so um and there's a number of things Environ environmental awareness training for construction Personnel um cameras flock cameras I mean I I feel they're doing their due diligence um and I think our problems again are outside of this scope and I think um I think you'll be attending a lot of meetings I think you have a lot of input

a lot of valid points um but but I feel that we need to handle all handle them differently um and not hold the project necessarily hostage um and I can see with the city uh we have to do our due diligence and and you mentioned the other night that we have two environmental police not satisfactory we fund five vacancy we fund five positions we only have two filled um it's

important to get more bodies up there to watch for the problems that you're that that you've shown us exist um obviously a lot of it we wouldn't know about if you hadn't come to the meeting so I appreciate that um May I certainly sorry so I have a question in relative to the petition itself so in the document that is the summary of the reliability project AKA line 114 project so it goes down on the

third page second page sorry um says install Copa install over copicut Road and qua Road Heights of wires and location will not incommode public use of public ways now correct me if I'm wrong there are already wires that are out there I'm assuming that the one about 50 or 60 feet away yeah so these will run parallel to that and they're going to be the same height that the ones that are out there currently

roughly it will be a little higher I was going to say Can Jamie would be the one to answer that but it was my understanding that they were higher but there are more right it's yes how many are out there now Jamie three to come yeah why you come back down and come talk to

us so the exist sorry so the existing line is a 115 kV line it's in a horizontal configuration so it has three conductors on it so there are three conductors that cross over the road and I believe there's one Shield wire or opgw wire for communications and we're putting a second set of structures a new 115 kV line that'll have similar horizontal configuration that'll have three conductors and uh

opgw so you'll have six conductors Crossing these streets and two opgw lines and I believe I don't have the number in front of me I can find it the new lines will be I think a little higher than the um proposed lines I think in the paperwork I saw 23 ft yes that's right that's correct 23 ft not less Y and that's due to the fact that that the new construction towers are different

correct uh a little bit taller I sort of add to what Jamie said this is David Baron I'm the project manager for National Grid the existing circuit that's out there as Jamie mentioned has three power conductors and at the top of the structures there's two what we call Shield wires they're lightning protection wires okay one is just steel the other one is a fiber optic inside the steel used for protection of the

circuit and telecommunication so the the new line that we're building will be exactly the same as that there will be an additional five wires three power conductors and two uh Shield wires at the top of the structure so at the end of the day right now there's five wires crossing the roads and at the end of the project there would be 10 and what's the distance between the two sets uh between the two circuits it's 50

I thought it was like 50 60 excuse me and then just one follow question on that document it mentions the their auth NEP is authorized to provide mitigation contribution payment to the wupa reservation not to exceed 5,000 and that is for what purpose exactly that is for sure that was our intention that um is speaking with uh Laura jeene Samson is that yes that um response to tree planting program so my

understanding is that would go to a line item for for for tree planting it wouldn't go to other types of line items that's that specific purpose that makes sense all right thank you a um just to expand on that that's actually going to um Mr lassier will be weighing in on that um contribution I believe yeah there was discussion about a contribution that would come to uh uh to benefit somehow the bio Reserve uh not

sure how that came you know that was requested uh and uh once we know what that is we'll come up with a uh proposed project to uh you know fall underneath that contribution if I may so councelor yes we're we're in agreement with with that so I I would say that uh the it's not necessarily restricted to funding trees or if this to the extent the city has a

tree fund um the comment by in that in that first meeting by councelor uh Jean Samson I think she was looking for something that would be furtherance or in support of the bio Reserve in general uh so in in speaking with uh your colleagues uh we felt that that a a pay of of the Wata reservation would fall would fit into that category frankly what what the city ends

up wanting to do with that as long as it's to the what of Reser Reservoir I I know I think we're somewhat indifferent to it m yeah no absolutely it definitely will go to the top of Reservoir um and hopefully the bio Reserve but he certainly knows best what's needed up there and um between you and Mr furland I'm I'm sure that it will be it will be well used and

appreciated I I would just like to say that um they're they're not doing Wetlands replications locally in the area of quanap Road and it's an extensive Wetland area with the copot swamp it's actually the head of the Westport the east branch of the Westport River um if we're not doing Wetlands replications at that site because they've over replicated in other places at B Rock Road substation um and and

then there's money allocated for tree planting but it could be put somewhere else in the reservation I would think that we the city would want to be investing in the areas directly adjacent to in fact the 20 mile loop trail goes right through that area right on quap over the Culver underneath the power lines so again but we're basically talking something that would be the responsibility sure sure um and and I do

believe that the Conservation Commission was intending to ask National Grid to do um ongoing water quality testing but I was under the understanding that it hadn't passed Conservation Commission so I don't know Dan whether you could speak to whether or not they're now planning to do water quality testing well that was Conservation Commission permitting I think was that almost a year ago that

that order was issued I think it was about maybe six months ago yeah so um the water quality testing and permitting again D deals with with that end of it there's there's really nothing or what water quality would be tested having to do with the activities that are being proposed this is not a construction site where we're building buildings where we are leaving exposed dirt the water that

hits the ground here is rain most of it will will percolate way in and through their nepy's permit and requirements that they need to do through that permitting agency was a federal agency will will resolve that issue um as far as any water quality testing of the copicut reservoir itself or the waters that flow to it that that would not be the responsibility of National Grid if it was determined that sediment washes

into a resource area then that gives us the ability to provide or issue an enforcement order and require them to take the steps to clean that activity um but to to require a a starting point of water quality testing I actually don't know I don't even know where you would start or what water quality you would you would test I don't know and I and I can also offer so I know at the Conservation Commission

hearing um M Mrs Riley's comments were read um she was notified of the meetings did not come to the meetings um and her agency or herself had appellant rights to appeal the decision of the conservation commissioner and appeal that to D which did not take place that that may have been an opportunity to at least have some of these things heard by someone else um but that did not take

place okay I wasn't notified of only only one Conservation Commission meeting I mean well that's all you get notified for and if it gets continued and tabled then it's to the next meeting that's Massachusetts General law okay um again I think um we have a it's multifaceted and I think there's responsibilities that lie in several areas and I think we all need to do our DU diligence and I don't mean it seem

you people I feel have done your due diligence um you've mitigated a lot of problems um I mean even miss Riley has stated that you've been good partners I believe um and I think it's up to us to start holding other people's feet to the fire and solving the problems that the city needs to uh address um I think at this point I would entertain a motion yeah I'm just going to say that I

be prepared for other subcommittee meetings to address water issues cover issues tree issues I think all a lot of the public safety issues that Miss Riley brought up I think we can we can have those discussions and and to be honest I think we've had those discussions before in other locations in in the reservation um when we were just talking about General pollution so I I think it's it's a good

starting point to expand on those conversations and see it what as a city we can do to help remedy some of those issues but understood but what I would offer is that those conversations should be had and it should be an ongoing dialogue correct however it should not be in response to the petition before you that was my that was my next statement yeah so right now I I agree with my colleague I think we

need to this needs to continue on and the the agencies will do their due diligence on it as well and we have our work to do with with our colleagues in the city to address the other concern separate and apart correct um with that I yield and I'll make the motion for it to adopt I'll second all in favor I any opposed the motion passes thank you all very much thank you thank you everyone

for coming thank you for your time motion to adjourn second all in favor I meeting's adjourned

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