1.31.2023 Committee on Ordinances and Legislation

committee on Audits and legislation will now come to Odom Madam clerk will you call the rule

here just who went to the open meeting law any person may make an audio a video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledgeable and permissible first item on the agenda is citizen input is there anybody who would like to

speak Gary don't jump up okay thank you item number two on the on the agenda is minutes from November 1st 2022. motion to approve motion to approve made by Council proposal second by Council Dion any discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so vote of motion carries unanimously item number three is proposed ordinance uh we've got traffic handicap parking that was referred on November 8th of 2022 and

December 27th of 2022. uh BD Street North Side 44 feet west of Oak Grove Avenue Campbell Street South Side 250 feet south of Pleasant Street we have East Main Street East Side 173 feet north of dwelly Street Fountain Street West side 85 feet south of William Street uh Lebanon Street North Side 67 feet west of quicksand Street Mulberry Street East Side 175 feet north of Division Street pokero Street North Side for

441 feet east of Bay Street Slate Street North Side 162 feet east of Fenner Street wanna Sada was it wamsada so I'm sorry I'm sorry if I could pronounce it Street South Side 354 feet east of kukashan's Street any discussion uh motion for emergency Preamble motion so made uh motion was made by Council proposals the second by Council Dion Madam clerk roll call yes Council repos Ed counselor Washington

is there a motion to approve motion to approve second motion approve was made by Council proposal seconded by councilor Washington all those in favor aye opposed so vote of motion carries unanimously agenda item number four proposed ordinance traffic miscellaneous was referred on November 22nd 2022 and then December 13th of 2022. uh there is an amendment to this on item number um

section do we know what section it was I'm sorry Washington Street is that the handicap okay so we have an amendment adding the strikeout to Washington Street so the section one would be loading zone uh Nashua Street South Side 56 feet west of Lawrence Street for a distance of 35 feet Westerly and then we've got handicap parking removals on 2nd Street 3rd Street Albany Street Barnaby Street Bowen Street Dover

Street Eastern Ave Flint Street Forest Street French Street Grove Street Hall Street jenk Street Locust Street freeing up parking spots uh Norfolk Street Plymouth Ave pokero Street Ridge Street show Street Sprague Street Tecumseh Street tawa Street Washington Street Webster Street and then Wooley Street discussion is there a motion as amended motion as amended motion was made by Council poses a second

second by Council Washington discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so voted motion carries unanimously item number five is a resolution discussed to discuss noise complaints regarding four of a coin operated car washes okawash located at uh 1225 through Ellie Street this was referred back in July 12th of 2022.

I read the resolution once I find it thank you the resolution reads as uh be ordained by the city council of the city of Fall River as follows that chapter 14 of the code of the city of Florida Massachusetts 2018 Which chapter relates to businesses be amended as follows by inserting a new article uh 23 Car Wash facilities and inserting under the article the following new sections to

read as follows article 23 Car Wash facilities section 14-714 definitions a car wash facilities establishments that provide public and private vehicle washing cleaning and vacuuming and or detailing services section 14 715 limitations a regulated activities no car wash facility shall operate between the hours of 10 pm and 7 am within the city of Fall River section B violations if the city

determines that a violation of the article has occurred at or buy a car wash facility such Car Wash facilities shall be penalized by a non-criminal disposition as provided in Massachusetts General Law chapter 40 section 21d and adopted by the city as a general ordinance as section 2-1021 of the code of the city of Fall River Council Dion I'm sorry oh this this I'm sorry oh great thank you

so I'll blame Council Dion for giving me the wrong resolution so that was the resolution that's looking to be adopted so the original resolution was filed by councilor Pelletier and this was in the city council on July 12 2022 whereas complaints have been received from residents regarding noise being generated by the use of individual industrial Vacuums at the far of our coin operated car wash located at 1225

dewelly Street and whereas loud music is played by customers throughout the day which causes vibrations in adjacent resonance which affects the health of these residents and whereas the successive noise is not allowing the neighbors to live in peace now therefore be it resolved at the Committee on Public Safety convened to discuss this very important matter I'm assuming that that was amended a referred to committee

on RNs and legislations on the on the 12th okay Council Dion um I'd like to have uh attorney how we at come down and give us his Insight on this first and then I'll we'll go from there assistant Corporation Council if you join us

because Kelsey do you want to join us you want that we got enough seats for you okay we'll share LJ I'll share with you oh so your input and opinion on this action what no action not in the new ordinance you don't want the resolution that was the original the visualization well uh the instruction of a new resolution was to have a letter sent to the owner instructing them not to operate between the hours of

10 and 7.

um I don't think he could do that um I don't know what Authority you have respectfully to dictate to a private entity um granted there's been some complaints but there's probably a process that you can follow before unilaterally telling a business to shut down we do have a noise ordinance we could follow that ticketing program I don't believe we have I suppose if the ticketing became so

abundant that becomes a public nuisance then we can pursue it but without those I know mechanisms we can't just write a letter to a business saying you can't operate between these hours so essentially whether people perceive something to be a nuisance or not um we don't have the authority to just take somebody's income away from them by saying you need to shut down Within These hours

the nuisance would have to be proven it would have to be yeah this due process right in other words you can't just go to a business that's validly operating and then unilaterally say without adequate justification other than a complaint by an individual that you are now deemed or prohibited from operating Within These hours so if you wanted to start enforcing the noise ordinance which is probably the most

you know applicable ordinance then it needs to be done and of course not targeting one place that would have to be across the board not just car washes either right I think of um you know Fall River is a mixed use it's very difficult we have commercial residential commercial residential and uh you know I think of Bay Street all the trucks coming out of gold medal Bakery I mean I I believe those are

probably pretty loud nobody's saying shut that company down know what I I'm just using a broad example yeah and and honestly there have been complaints in the North End of the city with um a business and Industrial Park that the neighbors feel it's affecting their quality of life and again that would be another noise uh ordinance issue um so essentially we'd have to monitor multiple businesses

um I mean do we have any equipment for the decibels do we have anything to be able to uh prove whether it's exceeding the limit or not exceeding the limit our hands basically tied unless I'm missing something I don't know where this magical decibel number is I don't see it in our ordinances the standard we use is not a measurement of decibels it's basically hey the noise interferes with

one's um sleep one's enjoyment of life then it's a violation of our city ordinance so one we don't have that decibel reading of equipment and two if we did I don't think it would be useful as applied to our ordinance just to clarify that I think what we have in this conversation a full Council or Finance I forget where the conversation was I think it might have been finance committee um

the despo came up with I think it's a Massachusetts General law that somebody pulled it is such a motorcycle or something like that yeah so I think that's where the decibel number is coming in and I think they're just tying it into the noise ordinance that's right that's awesome I have seen it with regard to motorcycles and I think it's like 84 decibels but to answer your question we don't have

that machine right and it wouldn't be applicable to the vacuum cleaner because we don't have a certain noise reading that says hey once it hits this amount it's a violation of our ordinance we don't have that okay what's that all yield right now thank you uh before I recognize constipulative so I guess is there a and I and I understand what you're trying to say in terms of obviously due process

and I'm all for due process for for businesses I guess in terms of from an ordinance standpoint is there something with the noise ordinance that we can strengthen that ordinance to give us a little bit more teeth in terms of the noise that are coming from the car wash or number two is there and maybe it's not this proposed resolution that's that's before us but that would limit it is there a license

that could be created that would require the city council to approve car washes so what I think about is a lot of communities will have Earth removal or Earth import um requirements so any contractors that are removing soil from uh yeah from a developable site would have to go either before border selectman or the licensing agent to be able to get approval for the removal of that that soil and and thus

you know if they're looking to bring in so many cubic yards of soil into a site to make sure that it's not contaminated that they've got the proper license for that is that something we could establish would that allow for a due process to be able to say at that point that it'd be across the board that once we've got this license we're identifying hours of operation uh well two things first before addressing that

specific question I thought the primary concern of the vacuum cleaner next to the residence on dwelly street was remedied by him shutting off that machine at around 7 30 8 o'clock at night not turning it on until the next morning and the additional noise that comes from that are cars that every software will play loud music for some reason I thought the police officer was going to be tonight

with the logs of What complaints were there um but answering your question I believe you I mean right now it's not licensed right so could you create a license um I believe you can especially for new car washes the question really becomes can your new ordinance apply retroactively to these existing businesses um and successfully be held and I guess I would I would say that and I know towns

and cities are completely different but four towns in Seekonk in particular we had a um we had a bylaw for Earth removal and import we created a license specifically for that to make some changes which would impact an asphalt company so after a review we have the authority to go ahead and do that because it's it's a general bylaw as opposed to a zoning bylaw so people would be grandfathered

if it was zoning but because it's a general bylaw that we would be able to implement new changes to existing businesses so I just don't know if that would apply to a city form of government I I guess thinking out loud you think of the creation of an ordinance you have to have a rational basis to create the ordinance make sense um and I I understand the the goal here and you're thinking

of these loud vacuums but wouldn't that propose ordinance really have to apply to various businesses throughout the city and then for instance I'm looking at this one here I don't know if it's I I don't think it's going to fly to be perfectly honest um it's it's limiting it to Car Wash facilities and you know why I think if you think that that way I mean there are I'm sure there's a lot of

other Industries in the city that make a lot of noise and more frequent than the infrequent use of a vacuum cleaner I'm not supporting one way or another I'm just saying the rational basis I don't know for this ordinance survives can you do a license for the future on car washes yes but I don't know what's so peculiar in particular about car washes and their noise versus other business business noise that that would

uphold um if the challenge that's cool too thank you chairperson to putting this up I like to differ with uh Mr how we are how long you been on City payroll Mr how are you almost 25 years okay oh there's a reason I've been I've been here for about 35 years okay you beat me now dude do you remember the incident uh down on Durfee Street the incident yeah I don't know it's a car wash

you remember the incident on Broadway Street don't know what you're talking about counselor Car Wash noise uh vacuums everything so I lived through this era and now we've got dwelling street that I've been dealing with about a year and a half a year and a half so you know uh we're sitting here we go out of our way to talk to this guy we talk to him and you just brought up a good

thing you said well I understand he was going to shut the lights at seven or eight o'clock no he didn't want to do it you were here at the meeting you all here at the meeting you gave him another chance I said I'm going to be right back at the table here we are back at the table again to try to straighten this thing up I mean it's just not right to

them people uh how many Cowboys are there in the city there's not that many there's not going to be many more because you know a guy like Vic's old Victory he ain't doing nothing but just the things in the right perspective went down Cumberland Farms I believe they got maybe 24 hours maybe but I went there today and I said what time are you guys close at 12th midnight and we have

an attendance come in around six to get going it's going to set you open to seven why do you close at 12.

because the neighbors are complaining about the noise so there's another one there so what do we do with that uh you got a guy like Sunny's car wash on the Avenue seven to six and I was with him talking to him and in the summertime when the weather is nice it closes at seven now he's got the car wash going on weekends you got the Hispanics and these guys and

they got these big boom boxes in their trunk and everything else so what happens they're running the radios real loud well he gets a call from Dunkin Donuts Dunkin Donuts can't hear the orders that they're taking because the music too loud but see here's a guy that won't call the police department you don't have to call the police department because he's there and he knows what's

going on he goes up to them and say Hey you gotta put that radio down you can't do this here put it low if you want if not then you're going to have to go so there's another problem but he's got three Bays as well there he's got three base like dwelling Street and like Broadway and like Durfee Street they come at any time uh Broadway I looked at it 24 hours open

do what you want whatever you want to do and we've got complaints on that so that is a problem and for you to say listen I don't think we can do this why not I mean we have the problem and the only reason why a lot of people can get invited here because we know the problem the police know the problem you see the chief likes them going up there two

times a week three times a week you take a guy and bring him over there especially at night they got other things they're going to do so it's much easier to say listen we're going to put an audience in and that's that's what should be done and you know to chase this again and around and around I mean it just don't make any sense to me uh it's time to do something you know

it's time to solution to be resolved and put these people at ease that run these car washes you know so you know I don't know if you got the final word whatever we have a job to do as City councilors we see a problem that we have and we try to rectify it but you know it's like oh wait wait a minute here I don't think you can do this you can't do that baloney

I mean you know it just don't make any sense to say well we're gonna wait I don't think it's right who has the final say do we have to take this to court higher Court well let me just just quickly jump in because I guess I want to help attorney howiex I don't think he's saying we can't do it I think what he's saying there's a difference because anytime you get attorneys there they're

going to give you their legal opinion as to whether or not it's going to be upheld in court if it's a challenge we quite frankly the city council and the RNs committee can do whatever we want to do it's a policy decision so Gary's not going to tell us from a policy standpoint as to whether or not we should go in a direction what I will say is is that towns are a little bit

different than cities in terms of ordinances they have bylaws which are their audiences all those bylaws have to be reviewed by the attorney general and so the Attorney General will go there and review all the bylaws that are submitted for um just to see the applicability to law and whether or not it's legal so if the attorney general reviews something similar to what Gary is suggesting that it's it there's

something that's questionable they'll kick it back and not approve it where in a city because we have Corporation Council um they don't review any of the uh ordinances that go before us so what Gary is essentially doing is serving as what the he would be with less Authority than the AG because the AG can kick it back he's just given us a recommendation saying if this were to be challenged not

saying that it would be challenged that he doesn't feel that the way it would be the way we're establishing it would be upheld in court so then we would just be back in ordinance making amendments to it so we can roll the dice and if we want to make the change uh contrary to what his recommendation would be in terms of the ordinance if it gets challenged it gets challenged right and

then we'll we'll be back at the drawing board trying to figure it out while we try to figure out what is probably the best approach to make sure that this is if it is challenged it's upheld in court and that we deal with the quality of life issues I think everybody is in agreement with you we've got address the quality of life issues so whether it's creating a license or you know

submitting an ordinance that we feel like we want to have submitted we have the authority to do that but unless your ultimate goal is to have nobody operate between those hours which this new proposal does you have you have the tools already at Your Arsenal to ensure compliance right I mean you all this is no offense but what I mean is a violation of this proposed ordinance is the same thing as a violation of the

noise ordinance it's just a non-criminal disposition so you already have that right now at your disposal Council I'm sorry that's the problem to go there I don't know or or to get it here they're gonna hear it I'm here you get to complain and they're going because they're operating after 10.

that's the difference so they can go roll up and they got the doors open the lights around they're operating he can give them a ticket right there right there you don't have to listen to the noise you got it in writing okay and that's it we want to go down the cops you're operating right now okay you're getting a ticket here you go pop and they go back to work that's all okay so shortcut

but it's a remedy perhaps I mean if the business is closed and somebody's in the parking lot making a loud noise this ordinance is not applicable to I guess it's a council peltier's point I think you know the enforcement from a noise ordinance standpoint especially within volume of calls that are coming into the police department if somebody calls to say that you know somebody's operating Boombox or

operating the vacuum at 10 or 11 o'clock I'm sure that's not the first call they go into a Boombox yeah that's back in the day come on okay there is right yeah I got it I got them in a trunk I don't know if you see that no equipment this big they open their trunk at this big and everything else you know right it's crazy yeah a nice one with all nationalities that

have those correct thank you for clarifying I don't do it I can't afford it we just heard that there was no hyphens who were all Americans that's right that's right um Council Washington um question established like a nuisance property it could it be okay it was already established that we have that in ordinances multiple complaints that would have to be obviously logged and it's got to just again

but I think there's got to be if you're complaining about it there's got to be a violations associated with this so you potentially run the risk of having you know 10 to 15 calls before you get one legitimate I guess fine if they've got a decibel reader you know so you need it just help me understand so you need a decibel reader in order to ticket them well I don't know you're saying the

ordinance doesn't even specify I have it here yeah and I don't know if the the so then if you could just speak to whether or not state law would supersede that if there's a decibel one state law would typically Trump if there are um aligned with each other but when they're separate they stand individually so if there is a hypothetically a state ordinance that references decibels and sound it would

still be applicable doesn't mean ours is not applicable unless they're in Conflict our ordinance reads all noises that Menace the health or interrupt or disturb sleep of residence between the hours of ten and seven so sleep interrupt well-being so I would say broad statement yeah so I mean we've shut down nuisance properties in the past correct so if this gets deemed as a nuisance property then how

can we couldn't go in that route no I think I think we could but you're just going to have to have I would assume complaints attached to the property yes I mean uh I haven't pursued any actions regarding noise offenses but we have properties in the city that we consider dilapidated not in violation of the building code or sanitary code and we pursue injunctive relief in the courts to affirmatively

make them clean up and become compliant so I suppose that option is also available here but I still think you first need to start ticketing you know you get it you can start somewhere well so if um Council Pelletier is saying that there's twice a week the police are being called there or more are they're not being ticketed is that what's happening well I can't I don't want to speak for

them I'm just I'm just assuming that if you're getting the calls they're not showing up because they're the call log is so so high right so I think the officers are you know screening out you know priority calls so they'll probably take a priority One Call versus a priority two call and that's just my lingo I don't know if they use that lingo but yeah yeah so it's not good so that was my question

you know how do you label it as a nuisance property I mean he did come down here and say he was going to shut the vacuums off at a certain time at night and um to rectify that and apparently he never did do that so I can't confirm whether he did or not I did actually speak with him I wanted to go to the property personally just to look at it so I had a better

understanding and he at least confirmed with me whether he's saying the truth or not I can't state that the vacuums that have bought the house that was complaining are the ones shut off and then I did watch the old video here and I said is it just the coin machine that you you stopped you know if they go with their own coins and they put it on he said no he shut those vacuums off so

and the neighbors were in agreement with that that night yeah so it doesn't sound like you have an obstructionist if you will it sounds like he at least tried to work with this committee so I can see about that failed Council proposal I guess my only question was do we have no record or sense of how many the times they've visited the police any tickets anything do we have any record of that

actually I decided to pull those logs as well just need abundance you might have asked that question thank you um it appears I asked since the last meeting in July and it appears there were one two three for four five six calls two of the calls appear to have been from the abutting neighbor interestingly I would note that both her calls one was at 12 43 in the afternoon

and the other one was at quarter of two in the afternoon so that wouldn't be in violation of the noise ordinance um so I I don't know if that's an unreasonable amount or reasonable amount of the other four are they related to noise yes they're all noise can you share what time those those were absolutely um let's see I got that one not that one so the other one but this is another one in

the afternoon at 12 52. so one was at one o'clock in the morning uh and somebody was blasting the music the other one was at uh oh that was again that was uh in the afternoon and only one other one was at 1 30 in the morning two cars making noise so it seems like the noise complaints were music related actually not one of them had to do with the machines of the vacuum engine revving yelling

so what's the date range on those they seem to be all October November 2022.

yes at least that's what I was provided and was there any action taken on any of those calls as far as I don't know I don't know what action was taken I I'm pretty confident that no noise tickets were issued there is a ticketing process but we don't know if if actually anything was issued or not I'm pretty confident that nothing was issued okay thank you I just want to clarify I'm not

stating that the police department did not go no just just knowing the operation of what it is if you know by the time they they get to those lower priority calls um right individuals are gone so may I may I just respond back I think my concern too is that the answer to the problem of we already have an ordinance but we're going to make another ordinance to me doesn't make any sense we have to

enforce the first orders we have and if we're not doing it through that process is making another ordinance just circumventing the problem is my question yeah I mean I don't I don't disagree with you I think if we have the noise ordinance and that's one of the first questions I was going to ask coming into the subcommittee is what are we doing with the noise ordinance can we make any

amendments to it and if we're not a forcing it then we'd need to stop there but in terms of you know trying to present a different resolution I think the only way to do it would be through you know a licensing process which I guess that would be a legal question that we would just need to dive into a little bit more if that's the route we want to go in

so I'll leave it up to the the committee to figure out what we want to do five man yep Council pelter so how we Act we asked for the corporations no uh Phoenix Corporation Council he did ask me to draft the letter and I basically didn't believe that the letter would be valid so I can't legally send a letter that I thought was wrong so I did not send a letter so you're a

judge enjoy and everything else unless we as a body at us you oh Mr rumsy sent a letter anytime we asked the click to send a letter to this one he gets out there she don't say well I think this is wrong she's not gonna say hey they want to send a letter send a letter I mean you could did you respond to I was saying you didn't send it no I

didn't want to violate the open meeting law and talk to you but collectively as a body but I figured when I would come here this evening we could discuss it can I just ask for clarification um just somebody could remind you what was the purpose of the letter to instruct the owner not to operate um after 10 pm daily oh what tweet okay so that's that's the concern you have

which we can't tell them not to right operate nicely like I'm gonna put a gun to his head you know come on and what did he do I want to take care of it we're going to shut this off and shut the lights off and I'm going to do everything done nothing nothing not to aggravate the people and in the consoles that well I knew I got a job to

do I tried to do it right small item for them people there's no big deal it's not like that budget or anything else but there's still going to be something done you know and he's not the only guy in town we know there's a problem here and there so that's it so I guess a couple options that are on the table if we want to address um I guess amending the noise ordinance

which seems to be very vague and gives us another enough teeth we can send the letter to the chief of police asking him to you know just start to enforce or really kind of focus in on some of the noise ordinancing complaints that are coming with the car washes especially you know as we're starting to get into the warmer weather that's I'm sure that's going to stop ramping up soon um or we can do whatever the

committees will is on on any recommendations that you may have so council at the end this is one I feel kind of conflicted on maybe perhaps I'm being a little bit of a devil's advocate as well so that meeting he agreed to shut down the vacuums that were causing the biggest problems it sounds like he did do that or he didn't do that I believe he did

but during that meeting that wasn't what came out of that meeting what came out of that meeting was strictly then they disagreed if he would shut down those vacuums that they would be happy with that not to shut down the coins or anything else I don't think putting a five dollar bill in a machine and getting 20 and getting five dollars worth of quarters is going to wake somebody up I could be

wrong but I don't think so um and if the machine is shut down they don't have the ability to run the machine so it doesn't matter how many quarters they have in their pocket and as far as that goes I'm not saying what's right or wrong and I'm not taking a side I'm just trying to um so there's been since our last meeting six complaints and only two were during the night would two count as nuisance

in a course of months no and do we have the ability to force a business it's not if he shut down his machines and his business is not causing the noise but it's somebody else that's pulling into the parking lot he has to control and tell people how loud they can or can't play their music I mean do we have the right to make him be um I don't know

to control people to that point yeah no I mean I'm trying to you know I'm just trying to look at all aspects of this you know I suppose if he was giving out free candy at midnight between midnight and two o'clock attracting people over there that made a loud noise yeah you have you could do something but just having a lot available I don't I don't know and to your point um

the President right no chance please you know enforcing the noise ordinance is is great I if you do talk to the police I wouldn't Target a particular business um or business or group of businesses you know to so it's enforced the noise ordinance period and then another thought I had when you read the ordinance I kind of have a problem with if it affects somebody's sleep and I'm going to explain why

so I live in a multi-family I don't I'm just so I live in a multi-family and I'm the kind of person when somebody walks up the stairs late at night to go home I wake up but my next door neighbor somebody would have to drop a bowling ball down the stairs to wake them up so how is that even how is that even relevant to say if it disturbs your sleep you know what's reasonably

disturbing somebody's sleep and what isn't I think that's really big a reasonable person's standard that's which is kind of this non-existent person that has all the average very arbitrary it is very arbitrary um I don't know um I guess I'll yield for an hour this is this is difficult Council proposal then Council yeah I think if I made to council peltia after that um meeting that happens and the the

neighbors and the operator agreed what was the feedback you received from the neighbors that nothing changed well they were happy at the time but I'm still getting close that that that's the whole problem so it's it's like you can't make it work one way let's make a way the other way but my question is is that did are they claiming too that nothing changed did it change at all and then it just reverted back that's it

okay so I think my biggest thing and I go back to very much how the graffiti ordinance happened that it didn't have enough teeth to kind of enforce and I agree in the sense that the noise ordinance is kind of weak and also to attorney howyak's point if we're looking to Target the noise ordinance and not just the business itself then we should look at how that can be strengthened being the noise ordinance and then it

needs to be enforced and then we need to determine we will take a Next Step so just through that do you I guess I didn't interpret the noise lawyers to be weak at that it was just vague giving us more authority to be able to enforce it do you see it differently no no it's not weak I mean we had we had used it in the past they have been ticketed

um for noise I know of two examples so we have the ability we have used it um both times I believe were upheld tickets you know issued and were valid and so no I think it's I'll clarify vague not weak no no and I know where you were coming from because I agree with you on the graffiti piece but I think in this situation because it's vague it gives us more Authority than making it very

specific right so it allows for the interpretation or does it allow for too much interpretation I guess well because we use it so infrequently we haven't really been challenged that much and I suppose right now um I don't know if you need to Tinker with it uh you can but I hate to say it this way I started enforcing it more to the the wording of how it is word it

is I think it's okay uh and then to that degree there's challenges then maybe we say hey we didn't think of that scenario let's change it now so I guess my recommendation would be why don't we have this committee send a letter to the to the chief of police um with a request to try to enforce the ordinances and have him just uh respond back provide a correspondence to this

subcommittee as to whether or not he can agree that agreeing that he can enforce it or if there are any concerns that he has with the enforcement of it so that we can kind of come back within the next month or so to really kind of have that discussion because if he's in agreement that they there they can enforce it which they do enforce the ordinances then I think we need to start

there if he has some potential concerns from a policing standpoint an enforcement standpoint then I think we should probably know that so that maybe we can we can tweak the ordinance and then in a month we'll just kind of reconvene and talk about you know what we've heard and see if hopefully within a month there's some type of activity from the police department on that does that sound reasonable Council

to wrap it up you're good 24 hours a day and he's going to wash cars from 10 to 7. doesn't make any sense you got the big blue eight to seven on all done at seven o'clock Sunny's seven to six or seven okay listen I voted no for the uh the Cumberland Farms Car Wash period I was I was one of the only ones that said no car wash that's right but what I lost

that one so they already kicked back they already kicked back because of the noise there you go so I just see this as this group is the end listen it's not working the other way we're gonna go back and send the guys up there and you've got to listen the other way hey it is ten to seven if you're operating you're getting the ticket that's it you go by yeah give him

a ticket that's it you're gonna go by and say well I've heard noise you're going to believe that nobody because you're gonna have a meeting this is the other way around easier and somehow someway so how we act can make it happen I mean I think to me you know this is looking a little bit common sense to me not that you're much smarter than me that's for sure but just

trying to get this result the best way the fastest way because that donkey I'm 12 dwelling Street don't care you don't care about us you tell us he's going to do this this he does nothing nothing so there's another way that we have to go and I think this can be take a shot and send it to the food committee and then let them do what they have to do

then it's going to fall back on you you do what you got to do and and maybe at that time we'll get the answers I mean to me that's all I mean I'm gonna I'd like to get this wrapped up before I leave but uh you know how long is it gonna go on it's going to go on and on most the people agree that they should be out of there early that's all and there's a

problem in three or four places that's it I said my peace don't leave too soon console proposal yeah I think at this standing moment I I can't make a decision as far as where we proceed without more information to determine what's our next best steps so I support your suggestion in the you know a letter to the police chief and and to yours as well to have the police chief come down and speak about

not only the noise ordinance in and of itself but also you know if he can guarantee enforcement of this then we take the next step I just think right now you know based on what Mr howyak presented in six calls and only two of them being in the morning time it's hard to really make a you know bold statement going forward so I mean I can make that a form of emotion if we'd like to

before before you do that I really try to keep it under an hour however the police chief did send me a text so there was supposed to be a representative here so Chief Garvin said that the individual is five minutes away they thought the meeting was at 6 30. so I don't know if we want to hold off or you want to be able to you want to take that motion and

you just want to still refer it to the Chief and well if they're on their way I could we could motion to get recess until they arrive okay if you want to I'll yield to my colleague Council yeah yeah I just have one question you were speaking of ordinances versus bylaws Etc so for the sake of argument if an ordinance were to be created with the existing car washes have to be grandfathered in and it only

would affect no ones or do we not know the answer to that yeah I think we were addressing that earlier frankly I don't know the answer to that I certainly would it would certainly apply to car washes going forward right right assuming it's a valid word let's begin with I think it's a big question whether you can have that new ordinance apply to the existing car washes um I haven't looked at it I haven't

looked at it I don't know so I think that's something we need to look at as well because if they're all going to be grandfathered in it's not going to accomplish anything yeah valid point it's so yeah I think that's definitely something we need to find out about first um it's great to create an ordinance it's great to have teeth but if you can't use them it doesn't get you anywhere so I will

say Chief Garvin just asked if he'd like to refer it so if we can just refer to the next meeting then that gives them an opportunity to kind of sit down and talk to cooperation Council as well with regards to that so because he's been listening to the meeting so it was a restaurant um so I think if we table it I think they're not going to be on their way

motion well you want a motion to refer to the police chief letter yeah yeah let's listen to that so okay a motion to refer a letter to the police chief regarding this um so it can be further addressed and then table and then table okay if I may I see the chief at dinner time and uh he says uh something about tonight and I said well the answer I don't think we need you I

mean we know the problem and there's a resolution that we could do I don't think just like the neighbors I'm not going to listen to them there's no sense of coming down it's the same story right same story same story so I said I think it would be all set and push this get it true and and see what happens but uh he said okay enjoy your lunch it's okay thank you

are you there you go I'll second the two motions so the first motion is to send a letter to the police chief asking him to review the enforcement of the noise ordinance and and provide a correspondence back to the committee on ordinance um and for him to also work with Corporation Council on that matter was made by Council proposal seconded by counselor Dion discussion no wave not table just on the letter you

know and to pursue whether they'd be grandfathered in or not that discussion as well that the question always cannot be answer myself so I found myself to look up that answer thank you all right motion on the table for the letter referring to the police chief was made all those in favor aye opposed so voter motion carries naturally motion to table was made by Council proposal second by Council Dion

all those in favor aye hoes so voted motion carries uh yeah assistant Corporation Council we thank you for your 25 years of service motion to adjourn was made by Council proposal second by Council again all those in favor is now a journey