10.1.2025 Traffic Board

This is the October 1st traffic board meeting. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or they may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised as such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Uh there is one roll call.

Roll call. Stephanie MacArthur, director of traffic and parking.

Natalie Melo, John Le Point, Thomas Fris, forward police.

We don't need to accept any minutes.

Nope. Just Okay. So, there's one one item on the agenda this evening uh for this traffic board meeting and that is for the citizen input for discussion with the abuters regarding the one-way traffic pattern uh change on Lindsay Street and that's going to be President Avenue North to Brownell.

Sir, I presume that you're here to exactly speak with us if you don't mind telling us your name. And uh my name is Bruce Hake. Um I own the threetory brown building that's between Deval and Lindsay. Uh from President Avenue to um Brownell. Um and it's my understanding well the there are serious changes that are being made to our street. Okay. That the Lindsay Street for that one park. We've

had significant problems with it before.

And it appears to me that the changes that are proposed are going to compound the problem rather than cause an improvement or a cure. Um, one of the things that I constantly hear is I say constantly three four times now is that there are a series of accidents between Lindsay and the entrance to the U restaurant parking lot across the street from people going across.

I've put up that building in 1980. I extended it on in 95 and my office has always been on the southernmost part of the building right facing President Avenue and I will say on the corner of Dval and President Avenue. Um if I was in the tow truck business that would be the perfect place to have my tow truck because they're constant accidents. But as between Lindsay and that parking lot I have

never seen an accident. Now, it doesn't mean they weren't there or they didn't happen, but I have never seen one in what is it 45 years that I've I've been there. Um Brad next door the uh the car lot probably knows more than I do because he's been there for many years also, but I've never seen one.

Personally, I almost don't care whether it's a one way or a two-way because the only thing it's going to do to me is if I want to go south on Deval Street, okay, so it makes me run up to the next loop or around the block. And so if you change it to a oneway, I'll be honest with you, it's really not going to kill me. I could care. Okay. My problem is the

tractor trailers that park on the street and the deliveries to Mesa across the street. Now, as it is right now, um when they park, double park, if the cars and parked on each side of the street are close to the curving and the tractor trailer parks close to the cars, wonderful. You can get a car through, but you can't put another truck through or an emergency vehicle. Um, admittedly

only once in the 35 years have I ever seen an ambulance come down the street and not be able to get through, but it happened once and it obviously could happen again or a fire truck could have a a similar problem. But my problem is access to my parking lot.

Because if a tractor trailer is parked there and they're not parked close together, you can't you you don't have access to the street. Particularly if you make it a oneway north, there's no access to the street. People are coming to my building can't get through. Or if I get a delivery truck uh for paper supplies or whatever, they can't get through. So I mean it it One way we cause a problem in that

respect and what I would like to see and to me this is the pure cure for most of this is put a loading zone in front of me so they can just tractor the trailer could park there stay as long as they want load unload occasionally we'd have a problem with two deliveries okay and that would one cure an old problem that's existed for years and at the same time, you know, it would

whether you make the street a one way or a two-way, it' still leave the street open for access for everybody else to include emergency vehicles. Um, and I know you're from the police department, but I will tell you over the years, and I've given up for the last number of years, I used to call regular, hey, look, I got people that are going to Mesa. They literally park right in in my

driveway. right in the middle of the driveway or tractor trailers in the middle of the street or worse the the big heavy trailers parked right in my parking lot which me is is really making my uh pavement worse and I get no responses none. Uh we'll send somebody and I'll be honest with you I've stayed outside for an hour and never saw them come. So, if we make a loading zone over

there on in front of Mesa, that would cure 90% of my problems. They want to or the state's proposal is to shrink the size of the street, which would compound it because if you double park, nobody's going to get by. I don't care if you got a car or whatever. And I I spoke with um I believe his name's Dan Uber.

Dan Aguia, the engineer.

Dan Aia. Thank you. I apologize. Um anyway, uh he discussed it with the state and they were going to just leave it curbing to curbing. Well, I can see the way they're doing it. It's curbing on one side, but they're cutting the other side a foot short.

So either you if you do one side, you it's it's the same as doing both sides because you've shrunk the street so that there's no traffic availability through.

And I mean, if you want to just use the ability for emergency vehicles, um, fire department or ambulance, great, because that's probably more important than me.

But personal opinion, for access to my building, uh, that's that's very, very important to me. And, um, we we have both an accounting firm and a legal firm. Our legal firm is mostly elderly work. And we have people on the first floor who basically take care of elderly people counseling and the rest. And as a result, I mean, we have a lot of older people coming in. A couple of times I've

really been concerned about their driving ability, but regardless, uh, they do come in and, uh, they're regular at the office and, you know, they would, if they got stuck back there, they would actually complain to me forever.

Uh, I don't know what else I can tell you. If you have any questions, believe me, I'll discuss with you. I'll answer whatever you like.

So, your suggestion is, uh, that Mesa has a loading zone between certain times and then they can park cars after that, right? You know, during the day from maybe just normal business hours, you know, 8 to 5 or 8 to 6 or something, right? That that would be and then anyone can park their cars after that. I mean, that kind of makes sense, I think. Yeah, I like it.

That's fair enough.

I mean, while I can't make excuses for the police department not responding to a parking complaint, I can certainly tell you that parking complaints in this day and age, not in 1983, are certainly low on the priority list for the FRPD.

I my uh when we can get to them, we do. But again, you have priority calls come in, so we have to go there. Um, my office manager, Stacy, uh, you used to have a a lady that was, I guess, a parking person and, uh, Stacy would call her and she'd come down and and give out tickets and it was like, okay, so it's hopefully it slows down.

It's still an option.

Oh, she still is.

Well, she I don't know if she is. She's probably retired.

1983, but I can certainly tell you that if you have a parking issue, you can certainly call the parking department, the the traffic department at city hall and and a parking control officer can respond there and probably a lot quicker than police.

The the ones that in parking in the middle of my driveway, I won't say are as regular. It's the the double parking with the tractor trailers, the big truck. Makes sense. Okay, makes sense. Any other questions? You know, I I I want to if if I can at the same time fix what you're doing or help with what you're doing and cure my pri prior problems at the same time

that uh this the state has really jumped on that area down there and the hopes is that um the engineers that put that whole project together, their dreams will be fruitful at the end of this and it will solve everyone's issues.

They have caused me unbelievable grief.

Sure.

Um when they were tearing taking out the bridge, those jackhammers with a big It's a big project.

The my office is right on the corner of the building.

I know where it is. I'm familiar.

Uh uh I I remember the first morning, the Monday, I got up, I listened to that for about 10 minutes. I had a headache in 10 minutes and I ended up going uh for a second breakfast up the up the play that I just go play nine.

Uh and then the other one was uh who was it earlier this year? Uh they parked some equipment next to the building and caught it on fire.

So but it's it's like oh well you know that's I've been around long enough now I don't have that many years left.

Yeah, you just sort of accept it and let it go and it's you try to be at peace.

Certainly appreciate you coming down and uh offering that suggestion, sir. I think it makes sense.

Okay. I appreciate that.

I just have one question. Did you Did you ever have a chance to talk to Mesa 21 about that and express your concern?

Mesa 21 and I do not get along at all.

Okay. I have tried at the beginning when the two gentlemen uh that own it now first opened it and um they have given me promises and they haven't kept them. Um I remember uh once I I felt bad for their waitresses. So once I said, "Okay, uh, for the waitresses, let me give them parking passes because I have parking passes for the office so that anybody that doesn't belong there,

we can get rid of them." Okay? And I I tell them occasionally.

Uh, anyway, uh, I gave them parking passes. Well, it seems that, uh, oh, they lost their parking passes. They need new ones, and suddenly their friends come in with parking passes.

Um, I I I I've tried all kinds of things. Um, one agreement we had, they were going to give me uh an umbrella policy because my concern or an additional insurance policy because if um my concern predominantly is one during the day, particularly at lunch because they'll fill my parking lot.

Yeah.

Um two, uh people go there, they have a few drinks, they come into my parking lot and fall, they're going to sue me.

Not me. Okay. Right. Uh, and they were going to get me an insurance policy to give me extra coverage. Never saw it. I have tried a number of things many years ago and all we end up doing is getting into confrontations and arguments with people and I gave up on that oh over 10 years ago.

Okay.

I I tried but it doesn't work.

I understand. All right. Thank you, sir.

Thank you.

Anyway, anything else?

No.

Okay. I I thank you. I appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for sharing.

Sure.

Come on down.

If you wouldn't mind just telling us who you are and I'm Jennifer Souza and I'm here from Mesa 21. Okay.

I will come up.

Yeah.

So, um I I heard his suggestion of a loading zone that our area that would be very difficult for us as anyone who knows who has down Lindsay Street, we we've been there for 18 years. Um parking is an issue.

Um we try to be good neighbors. um the loading zone would just give another reason for um to be calling um the police and tow trucks and things like that. So I think that would that would be very difficult to have a loading zone and um during business hours just um why I'm here is just a to represent our restaurant that you know we have been there for a long time

and we um just found out recently about the sidewalk um being uh larger so and narrowing and so that was that is our concern of course because parking is an issue. Um he's right about we do have many deliveries throughout the week. Um and so if cars are parked on both sides uh and we have a delivery, yes, that's going to be an issue that's going to block traffic. Um so

uh you know, we try to be good neighbors. It's been a lot of history over the years. There's a lot of um times for the deliveries where it won't affect everybody. It's it's impossible really to do that. We have, you know, bread coming in at 8:00 a.m. and maybe liquor coming in. They are running late at 5:00 p.m. Like, so it's it's very difficult to we have, you know, many deliverers throughout the week,

different times, days, and that would be organize that.

It it's too many, I think, you know, to to be able to do that. Um but so I was just here to about it's especially the sidewalks because that would cut down on our parking. It would and it would block traffic. I mean right now the um seems like they did the curb um going from President Avenue to Lindsay. It's very narrow. I don't know how um cars are taking that right now. like if right now

because it is a two-way only one can go at a time and um if we have large trucks I don't know how they're going to take that turn and on to get onto Lindsay right now.

Um so that's why I just yeah that's our concern is the one way is the large sidewalks and a loading zone. We don't have the room for that. We have a driveway. We have a little We have a fire hydrant right in front of our It there is no um way for that to be in Lindsay Street more narrow. Is that it?

Yeah.

making Lindsay Street more narrow is going to why the plan was to make that a oneway because of a one way and uh to increase which we just we haven't really heard there hasn't been a lot of transparency like for us or a lot of information given to us and like we just found that maybe out six weeks ago about the sidewalks we didn't even know that that was going to be a thing um so

it's very concerning to have that um maybe losing park I I'm not sure if there's still going to be parking on both sides or what what it is, but um what would you suggest to resolve it? If there's a tractor trailer unloading and a rescue can't get, what would be your suggest? Right. As of as now, we can that we've we've done it. That's how I mean they park. If there is a park, they

have to double park. I mean, cars still can get by. If you're going to and make the sidewalks larger, there's no way, right? So right now it's and it's worked for all these years. Uh you know as difficult as it is but it still works.

Um so it just the sidewalks go that's going to be a complete issue.

So from what I gather um I actually this has been going on since 2014. Um that was that decision was made back when that study was approved back in 2014 for those changes. Um, I know Dan, the administration, myself, we were all in agreement with you on that as far as them narrowing the road. We we don't know why it was put in those plans. Um, unfortunately, none of us were here at

the time when that plan was put in place. Um, I do know that the state has worked with them and did actually they're only narrowing it. It was supposed to be three feet on each side.

Um, but they did come back and state that they were only going to narrow it two feet. Um, so that that was changed as far as that it's not going to be all of Lindsay that is being narrowed. Um, overall they only lost about two feet existing as the existing street is 33 ft curb to curb and this current design is 31 ft curb to curb. Um, so they did actually take some of that narrowing

away because this was a concern that was brought to the administration and to the engineering department. Um, unfortunately the one way was it was already approved. Um, so parking is going to be allowed on both sides and that's we just wanted to let all of the abutters know of that traffic pattern change which is why we're here today.

Right. Um, as far as excuse me moment like two cents if I might.

Yeah, of course. If that's okay with Missa. The fire hydrant is just north of actually your facility. It's in front of the garage.

So if there was a loading zone and even if it extended closer to President Avenue and covered part of Brad's uh area, uh I don't think he would object and that would open the street would cover maybe the front of your building while they're delivering and some of Brad's next door. And I don't think he would object at that point. No, I I feel like he would he he was supposed to come

today. I don't know why he's not here, but I would feel like he would have because he's already lost one of his on the corner. We've already lost a parking spot. So, if you And Brad's Brads is that auto body shop right on the corner.

He was supposed to be I I've already discussed with Brad. I gave I gave him a couple of parking tickets from my lot.

Okay.

Uh so that way if he has some we can park in the lot, we you know, he's a good neighbor.

Good. Well, in that case, and so even if Brad was okay with that, so that would take um three I don't even know if you could do that because Brad has a driveway. It's it's our restaurant, right?

There's a fire hydrant on and there's a minimal amount of and there's uh his like a driveway to get into his that. So, we only have maybe we have two parking spots in front of our restaurant, right? That's it. He's got about six spots facing on Lindsay to pull cars out. About five, six spots on going down President Avenue.

On Lindsay?

No, he may be. Now he has one one because of that um cut that cut that they just made. He's got one on his corner and then he has there's a driveway like a cut that driveway open that he can pull cars in and out. And then we have two spots in front of Mesa.

Yeah, I see that. Oh, we have our driveway and a fire hydrant.

Yeah, I think the one way might be might might benefit you.

The one way is not% the issue. It's% what I wanted to just say with making the um the sidewalks larger. And then with that being we feel that that will be a traffic issue with trucks and things like that for people to get by because now they just can get by. But I think even two four even four feet. So if you're doing two feet, even four feet is going to be I think the difference

from cars getting by and cars not getting.

But I know all your your people have to look both ways all the time. I mean it's cars coming passing each other. I think with the one way I think it'll alleviate some of it.

It does. Yeah. It might that might benefit us just having it. Um but it's it's the sidewalks that was our concern that just with the trucks. I don't know how long the tractor trailer is, but quite honestly, if they took the and put it on my side of the street and let them put a loading zone on my side of the street, I don't care. You know, it would it would

solve problem of keeping him out of the street and going traffic to just go by without having to to stop. The only negative is the guy just has to walk across the street with his uh you know, carrying his cases on the car. You wouldn't you wouldn't lose the spots in front of your business then if it's on the other side of the street.

Sounds nice.

I don't think it do that.

I mean what you would probably lose is during that loading time.

Mhm.

Right.

That would be it. 8 to 4. Whatever.

Whatever time it would be. I don't know.

I know they show up at any time all around the city.

UPS all of them. They just double park and Oh yeah. It's I don't want to say it's an accepted thing, but it's everybody wants their package delivered to them, right?

No one wants to list something. They don't want to miss the package. And if the package happens to be, you know, supplies for the restaurant, that's a very important thing that needs to get there. So, no, I accept they got to get their food deliveries and the rest. I don't have a problem. They say I I you can put the loading set on my side of the street. I

mean, there's a way you got to I don't know how big those trucks are. I mean, if it's a full size, you're talking We do have some of those that Yeah, some of them don't show up, but again, they do it on South Main. They do it on they do it all over the city and it's sometimes, you know, get stuck behind a trash truck and see what happens. Right.

It is it just it is what it is.

My only concern with that, so there's a handicap space here, which is going to go back, which is for that building, right?

My only concern would be anybody coming out of his driveway. If there's a massive truck right here, can't get out. What's they're not going to be able to see the What's the length of that curbing? No, they're not.

Yeah, that would be that would be Well, if there's a handicap an HC there.

Mhm.

For the building or the street?

Yeah, it's for the building. There should be something in the lot, right?

Do you have handicap parking inside of your parking lot?

No. The only handicap access is that one door on the south end of the building, right? Which is Yeah.

That's what we're looking for.

Yeah.

Pre-construction.

Yep.

And which Yeah. Yeah. And that'll go back up after as well.

I mean, just just trying to look for a solution here.

A solution for both both, you know, businesses to be able to operate without issues.

The one the other end of my parking lot handicapped folks I could care.

I don't think so. I just, you know, I'm just trying to get Oh, at the far end of your lot there.

Yeah. Right. I put it on the far closest southern end of my lot because there's two. There's one here.

Right.

At the beginning.

He's selection. He's he's just suggesting putting the the HC right here.

Okay.

Right.

Which I don't know if there's a required distance from a spot to the door. I mean, it's closer.

It is closer, but Yeah, because then we could put that we could put that back that loading zone could go a little bit further back. You know what I mean? So it wouldn't be such an issue of anybody coming out of the driveway.

Yeah.

And it's a oneway street.

Correct. We don't have to look Yeah.

When you come out of the driveway, half the time you can't see much in your in I I I asked the police department a while back, can't don't aren't people supposed to park so many feet away from the entrance to the driveway. They know they can park right now. They can park right up to that curve.

You know, people used to paint them back in the 50s.

That that was a courtesy.

It was It was a courtesy.

It doesn't work.

But you have so many cars today that you just, you know. Yeah.

In fact, it only becomes an issue when they're blocking the driveway.

If you can get out, then get out. But and if you happen to have a a van or something parked there, right?

Yeah.

That's you know, be careful.

Oh, there. And you you know, I've always warned that one of these days somebody's going to come out of my parking lot, not be able to see, right? Even if you inch out, you know, you could easily get taken. And the person driving out is the one that's at fault.

Unfortunately.

Yeah.

Okay.

No, I think we should explore explore the uh we can certainly explore that. I I think it's reasonable. I mean, again, you kind of lose you kind of lose a spot there for the loading, but you get the loading.

There's a problem with the temporary blocking of his driveway. And if you move if you if we move that again obviously just exploring this if we if we put the handicap spot in in the lot at your at the most what it be the northern corner but close to that southern door that takes it off the street.

Correct.

Opens it up loading for Mesa and then after after loading tying anybody can park there.

Is is that is that a handicap spot for for a resident there or right?

It's business. Oh, okay.

What do you think?

I think it still eliminates parking spots from our street that we have, you know, limited parking.

Well, what would you suggest, Matt? If you were to suggest leave it alone or the only I I think as long as the sidewalks aren't widened, I think we would be fine even with the one the one way. Um, but just that the sidewalks as as is that they're not wanted. I think that would be the best solution because we've done it all these years. So, we we But I think I think with the

reconstruction though, they have to be ADA compliant, right?

So, because it's under the construction and the state's doing the job, when they're putting it back, that sidewalk has to be wide enough for ADA compliance.

So I think that's also another reason as to why you know once things are grandfathered in things have changed throughout the years.

So now with the construction and the reconstruction with the state coming in those sidewalks have to be wide enough in order for it to be the ADA compliant going down to 31 ft not 33.

Yeah. I mean it happens whenever they do a project that's state does it go unfortunately or the city you have to comply with that and that's just how it is today.

So, the loading zone times, if that is something that you're interested in doing, what would be the time for loading, would you say? You say you get a delivery for 8:00 a.m. as early as 8 a.m. Do you get them any earlier? Just trying to figure out like nothing large. So, we get small like smaller vans that would be able to Oh, okay. You know, just park in front.

Okay. Um, we do have those large trucks and that's, you know, I'm sure we don't get them after 4.

Okay.

Um, but it's hard to, it's hard to really say the exact because you don't know. You put the order in, they deliver when they deliver, right?

Get it.

You They do.

It's just trying to make it to a point where we don't end up with a truck in the middle of the road and we need to get an engine company down there and, oh, sorry, I got to bring the eggs in.

Hang on a minute. I'll be right back.

I mean, that's an issue. That's a real issue. And I and I'm and I'm maybe I'm making light of it, but I'm serious about it.

You know, I don't know if anybody's been in a fire, but it goes pretty quick.

Yeah.

So, it's certainly an issue.

So, there you go. Imagine a loaded truck there and you can't get an engine company in there to put it out, right?

Yes.

It's a It is a serious thing and and although I'm making light of it, I'm being absolutely serious about it. Um I certainly think it needs to be explored. It needs to be kind of kind of good on all ends. I I certainly understand Mesa. They do a lot for the city. They hold a lot of function.

There's no question about it. And you two, sir, you're trying to bend a little bit so we can have two businesses get along. Even though it it's been stated that they don't or they try, but I mean it's just trying to make the best of everything for that area.

I agree.

You know, it's it is definitely a tough area.

It is a difficult area.

It is. It's very difficult.

The state coming in and changing things that'll be there because we live here.

They don't.

Right. Right. If I might, I'll discuss it with Brad who has the car lot in the corner and and maybe that's the trifecta right there. Right.

Because quite honestly, a truck delivering to them, whether it's on my side of their site, if it's on the side of the street where the restroom is, it you know, from a carrying point of view, they don't have to run across the street with their CS, but you know, it's I I agree it takes a few parking places. It will take a few parking places. I I I understand that.

as it is now. I have two parking places that I give to neighbors.

Uh because they come home at the end of the day and there's no parking, right?

So I two neighbors that I've given tags to parking lot.

Yeah.

Right at the corner. I've given them a couple of tags to park in my lot, you know, just, you know, trying to take care of people.

Yeah.

Okay. We could certainly take it under advisement and uh advise you what what we can do to try to alleviate if you speak with Brad sir certainly get back in touch with us.

Absolutely.

And and that we can all sit down and try and make this good for you know your business's business and Brad and because there certainly the changes there are not going away. So yeah.

Oh yeah.

As much as we all want them to state is a little bigger than we are.

Yeah they are.

Very unfair. Yeah.

Well, we thank you very very much. I really appreciate it.

All right.

Any other business to discuss? Motion.

Motion to adjurnn. Second. Seconded by John.

Okay, we're all set. Thank you sir.