10.15.24 Historical Commission

good evening everyone uh thank you for joining uh us tonight for the meeting of the Fall River historical commission it is Tuesday October 15 2024 the time is 6:01 p.m. and we are here uh at the government center um for to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through uh any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings

or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or uned receiv by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible uh may I get a roll call please Ashley dunia present Jonathan Lima present Elizabeth D present Jason Bard rocki present Rick man pres J Rodrick present Connie Soul present excellent thank you and we do not have any open seats um excellent thank you um so item

number one on the agenda we have the minutes from September 17th 2024 um we're not ready correct okay so can I get a motion then to table the minutes we'll review those at our November meeting I'll make a motion to move September 17th minutes to uh November meeting I'll second that motion okay thank you I have a roll call I'm sorry I have a motion by Connie seconded by Rick to table the minutes to our November

meeting uh roll call vote please Ashley yes John yes Elizabeth Yes Rick yes Joyce yes Connie yes and Jason bardaki yes thank you all right so that's table to our November meeting um do we have any citizens input for tonight okay you um so item number two we have um couple notices of intent to demolish uh item number two is 644 and 648 Rodman Street um this is a demolition of an existing Warehouse

light industrial structure did inform carry licensing department that it is not listed on the register of significant structures um the same goes for item number three 743 and 771 Rodman Street um commercial garages they are not listed on the register of significant structures um so with that said um moving on to item four we have a correspondence from Massachusetts historical commission um the notice is

dated September 16th 24 I received it on September 30th um it's regarding the fiscal year 2025 survey and planning Grant cycle commencement so that will be coming up and I did provide the attachment it's very lengthy but it shows what is um what the grants are used for um which will'll be we should consider taking a look at it um for we have any needs that we uh for the

uh pum in the highlands 4C project they have um it's not limited to just the historical commission the nonprofits can use it uh within the community as well as the city um any questions so far okay um item number five under new business we have um a request for a letter of support for Community preservation grant funding for the night out Diner at 1680 Pleasant Street and if I have a repres representation good

evening good evening Anton Das 492 June Street and I'm here hoping to get a letter of support for the community preservation committee we met with you before a few months ago uh for the um nomination onto the register um has there been any change to the project or um uh let me phrase um what will the funding be used for specifically well um before that since our last meeting I have spoken to

the Massachusetts historical commission and they are interested in getting my Form B and they believe it will get approved to be put into uh they have a listing for diners in Massachusetts so we're looking to get included in that list um so that's a little lengthy process uh I will definitely copy the historical Commission on that application okay uh regarding the CPC application uh what we've put in a

request for is the restoration of the Night Owl the owl itself um there's um another neon sign on the chimney that says owl and there is a missing arrow that said Diner on Pleasant Street so we would have to recreate that uh part of the application is restoration of some of the stainless steel uh of the diner there's some damage uh broken windows uh there are some outdated electrical mechanical and plumbing um as

I indicated to the CBC committee the property owner is going to put all of his money on the kitchen component okay uh Massachusetts historical commission definitely wants us to keep it as is so all of the stools except for one are there um it it looks like from day one okay yeah are they um is the owner going after tax credits as well or to rehab or no I'm sorry is the owner um seeking tax

credits as well or so part of filling out the formb is at the same time requesting historical tax credits for the Pro project so yes we are pursuing that all right yeah when they yeah they'll when the when you go after tax credits they'll have the interior surveyed as well so any historic finishes will likely have to be retained um and when you do uh file for tax credits as well I uh you will also need

a letter of support from us again uh when that part comes up I believe it's on part two and three of the tax credit application um not part one but um so I'm trying to think what else um yeah that was it for now yeah um and when um when is the work anticipated to commence at least is there any work that would happen beforehand not Grant related so math historical commission said that

they prefer that no work gets done until it gets put on the register so that's why I'm working hard to get that application done now so that by the time if we get any CPC funding um if we get it before we get approved we will definitely hold off on that any additions going on to the building at all so one of the reasons why the N owl has been closed for a

number of years is the property owner sometime ago had tried to open it back up and the building department said that because it didn't have handicap accessible bathroom that they were going to approve opening up so he did some drawings himself in the building department like no you need to get a designer and then I jumped in trying to help him out I've been doing everything pro

bono so part of the CPC request would be to hire someone to do drawings um the drawings really is the handicap accessible piece and if if you have seen any of the historical photographs that used to be like the chck uh Chuck Wagon so that little Ada will have you know the rounded roof looked like a little Chuck truck wagon that was connected to a Bo we're trying to minimize any changes to the exterior as

possible okay that was going to be my next question any any major or minor changes to the exterior with the exception of that actually if I remember correctly I remember the truck and I that building is separate from the original I think the truck was a separate unit and that got removed and the building was put in the owl is the only original so if you say that the truck Chuck Wagon was the original and

it had the owl they then purchased this stainless steel piece in 19 I'm sorry I put on the application let's say 51 52 now that's the historical piece with the owl and that original owl um which I've referenced to being the more menacing one um but besides the neon um it was brown in color and the neon was these really bright white lights around the eyeballs it had claws holding on to the

branches uh you know so we would like to restore that back to its original now getting back to the original question any major or minor changes being done to the exterior of the building at all no we want to keep it as original as possible any other questions okay um thank you uh so this is for our letter of support for CP C grant funding or C grant funding I'll

make a motion that we Grant of support Second thank you I have a motion by Connie seconded by Elizabeth to for letter support for CPA grant funding for the night all Diner may I get a roll call vote please Ashley yes John yes Elizabeth Yes Rick Rick man yes Joyce yes Connie yes and Jason Bard rocki yes I will have that over to you um uh I'll when I send it to you I will also see

see Sandy so she has a copy of it perfect thank you all very much than you so much it's exciting um item number six under new business we have um a request for Community preservation act grant funding for the Fall River Maritime Museum at 70 Water Street um and I do have actually John um John printed out photos unfortunately I did not include them in the you didn't see them

okay so you want to pass those down good evening um if you can state your name and address or Chris nardy uh Chief Operating Officer at Battleship Cove thank you thank you um and can you um explain the project and the what the funding is used for will be used for okay so back in um in August late August there was a windstorm um that caused um a uh one panel which contained the three bay

windows or three Windows to to eject itself from the um beam I'll call it lack of a bet was like a beam Matrix that was erected in front of the Maritime Museum which intent was to replicate um the Fall River Line terminal in New York City um so it's a it's a it's a vertical and horizontal beam structure that had these panels or has panels inserted in it made of that's

a two the 2x4 stud construction and those panels the 2x4s were SEC are secured to the beams with u uh pneumatically driven or a powdered type of gun that drives pins into Steel so one of those came down took another panel out on the way down upon my when I examined the panel that was on the was on the ground I saw how it was constructed and I wasn't impressed um

and I feared that the other ones may soon follow so we closed the museum immediately uh consulted with the building inspector closed part of anaan Street sidewalk down um subsequently a couple weeks later we went up and strapped all the upper panels against the beams to prevent further um possible um uh danger to passer by in the meantime it was suggested that the um CPC might be able to fund the demolition

of the at the very least or the removal of the panels and at the very most the steel structure um a lot of people number of people are in favor of restoring the building to its original appearance uh one complication was that the cocking used on the panels the inserted panels contains asbest which which um triggered um uh reviewed by the Department of Environmental Protection there was a work plan um developed and

everything's on hold at the moment pending the possibility of having this Le this fund this funding provided to us um that's pretty much it in a nutshell um at the very least as I said we want to remove the panel so we can open the museum and ultimately take the beam structure down to restore the building to its original appearance when was the beam structure added to the front that I don't know I've been around

Battleship C for 30 years and I just I don't remember I always remember it being there to be honest with you okay I just haven't been able to I haven't been able to find that out it has definitely not been done in the last 20 years I can tell you that okay um and in terms of um and I remember at the CPC meeting um one I think there for the eligibility um

I think while you were there uh was it last month I think it was um was can you um remind me where uh where it stands on insurance doesn't cover the removal of the panels or anything like that as it's right so because two things figur and the our um insurance company sent a letter explaining the whole thing in detail our insurance adjustor rather has to do with um the asbest okay um Pres or

the presence of asbest and the fact that the deductible in in terms of I don't exactly understand to be honest with you D the deductible inter relationship that the value with a building also comes into play okay okay so um did you see the photos that I included in the packet we have thank you so the funding would be for the Demolition and abatement so is there existing funding to replace it we don't want to replace

it so the steel that's in the front will ultimately be removed in the exterior because it was an added building to the building's much older yeah so the building that's going to be removed in it no longer that's why this I mean this wouldn't even be in the realm of discussion if if it wasn't uh in in the uh in the in the idea present to restore the building to its to M

appearance how much Dam is going to be left when that metal framing and beams are removed you're going to have to do some mechanical construction to the facade it's been hard to diff it's difficult to exactly see all how all the um the joints are done to the original building but obviously I would be on top of that to uh to minimize that and then we have to rectify whatever damage is

done in removal of whatever connections are made there okay so in essence then the the fact that the panel panels this happen um this incident happened kind of has opened up the opportunity to restore the exterior to pulling this pulling this um addition to the front off eventually and restoring what what's in the space now are there are there behind that it's behind the right hand side it's empty

that's complet oh okay on the left hand side there was a store room that's been all cleaned out okay oh so there were just it was just non nonusable spaces and but while in the upper section it also obscures the original Windows which have been blanked off ultimately we like to just you know my our former executive director had some great ideas which included putting restoring the windows

as well okay it's part of a major project um How does the uh does that well I remember this was uh discussed at length at the CPC meeting but I can't remember specific um I was away I was on vacation that's right I do know that there was some concerns about whether that was covered by a CPC so there's and I don't think a solid answer has come back yet there's been Communications with the with the

right as to whether funding is allowed on this removal and I don't know if that's been 100% resolved I know there were there were two answers that have come back so they've got identify I was away at the last meeting I not there well that's I guess that will be decided next next Monday evening yes it will be I if the end if the so if the end game is to ultimately restore

the exterior to pre the metal framing a necessary step to it's a necessary step to get to that part the choice I would think from the historic commission would be to restore to its original right and and get rid this facade right so you know making a motion at this point because of the finance is not being arranged I think I believe we could in fact I'll make the that we send a letter

is support of restoration to the building which would require okay okay all right um so letter our support to restore the building pre the 1980s 70s yeah facade alteration yeah okay um so are you with that yes I'm just Jing so I have my verbiage correct support restoration okay all right works so was that a motion that's a motion second second all right so Rick and motion by Rick seconded by Ashley um

for letter support uh for um The Maritime Museum uh roll call vote Ashley yes John yes Elizabeth Yes Rick Rick manc yes Joyce Joyce yes Connie yes and Jason Gard rocki yes I will have that to you by the end of the week so you have that in hand thank you very much everyone thank you so much thank you um all right so um item number seven under register of significant structures um so we had a

number of nominations that came forward um we did receive the homeowner of the property owner um uh confirmation she she um for 141 wood La Street this is item 7A um so we had approved the nomination on August 20th um and because it was um any type of uh of nomination to the register um if they're not present we just want them to sign or just at least to confirm that they uh actually I got

my letter today for What on membership oh that's something different I'll talk about that later okay um so um do we so should we do we need to approve the acceptance of that or is it just for item 7A um because we did approve the nomination on August 20th it was a home property owner nomination if it was not a property owner nomination if it was coming from us um then we should have

then we had to approve the acceptance of the form I believe um so I don't think we need to approve because it was a property owner okay we already approved we already approved it okay perfect so I received that I'm waiting I I am waiting for um the one on the spirit of Santos but that was uh that should be coming soon um let's see okay so that's it for 7A um

under old business we have item eight Amendment to the historical preservation ordinance regarding the membership thank you Joyce um so uh it passed the city council it went through the ordinance committee and city council for um the membership so this is uh in regards to the certified local government uh application that we had um which is also number item number but I'm just jumping around during the um during

that process of the CLG application it was revealed that we uh were actually not in um consistency with the state ordinance on preservation on historic preservation um based on how our membership structure was um so we actually have to be all uh nominated by and and appointed by the mayor not part mayor Part City Council um so it went through the ordinance committee as an amendment uh and went through the city

council two readings so it has passed at the last meeting um so that actually affects Joyce myself and John um so somebody from city clerk will be reaching out to you to schedule an appointment to um go get sworn in once again um so that will firm that up and we'll be consistent and uh with not only uh the state but we can then move on with um the CLG application um so

everything still has to get uh confirmed by city council so even though the mayor makes a nomination and appointed they still have city council still has to um confirm so that I'm glad that um uh Corporation Council is able to push that through relatively quickly so um so that leads us on to item number nine the certified local government application update so I have an update um I did

contact Jen DH with a mass historical commission regarding um the update to the ordinance from the city um as it turns out so she wanted to make sure that we did not have to resubmit a whole new application um just in case so she contacted her uh her contact over at the National Park Service and fortunately we don't need to resubmit so the only thing I have to do once Joyce myself and John

get um reworn in and I have an updated list of everyone's terms with the expiration dates um I just had to send that over with the amendment to the preservation ordinance in the city to Jennifer she will for that over to the National Park Service and then our application will continue so we don't we don't lose a spot in line and so it and that was I believe the only thing that

they were questioning so because of that I think that we're will'll be in the home scratch after that for CLG uh certification so that's exciting yes so that that's a hurdle that I didn't want to have to go through again um so that's that um now item any questions so far on that no okay um under old business so item 10 uh regarding the highlands local historic district expansion um so um

regarding the amendment I included a map and I do apologize for some of them made a little mistake on it and it's kind of hard to read um so when I was looking at the expansion area um one thing that came up was this one stretch of Highland Avenue so this is still within the existing National registered District um this particular stretch of Highland Avenue we had stopped the target area

boundary line um for the properties at the corner of Highland ab and Lincoln have um and the way that the boundary lines go we can't technically form a corner so the boundary can't run down the middle of the street unless there is a good a good reason for us doing so um and I think the MHC is lenient too if we have good cause to form a boundary line down the middle of the street so with

that said um looking at this next block moving up towards pierced and towards president um there's some rather significant properties over there that I feel warrant the additional protection in that area um one of which is um and I have so there's a bunch of little numbers um these are the state um these are the ID numbers with a mass historical commission so for example flr do uh lr. 1598 on the corner of Pierce

and Highland um so for example that's that house historically is the Dar Parlin house she was the first female architect of the city and moving up the street um flr1 166 that's Rising Sun um that's the the Japanese um exotic Revival house by um architect Ralph Adams CR um and then that whole intersection with hen Na and president those three houses um flr 1316 1314 and 1315 um those three houses were done by

by a Providence firm um Angel and Swift and they're excellent examples of the shingle style that we have in the city um and last but not least um flr 161 on Highland Avenue it's at the bottom of that little boundary line um that is the brow house which is um better known as the one that's always decorated nicely for Halloween that's the only way I could explain it but it's another excellent Breezy null y it's

called Breezy null um that's another excellent example of the shingle Style um by a Providence architect uh William Walker um who did quite a bit of work in the city um so those are that whole branch of and every house in between not just the ones that I've listed I feel warrant the Extra Protection being in the 40c so I would like to get their input and send out surveys if that's

something we should look at um so before we send out the second set of surveys um the second set of surveys will be a web based uh survey uh probably through Google Docs or not Google Docs a Google form um I was looking at Survey Monkey uh and other survey uh Outlets I guess and I I think Google may be the better one um but I um am still waiting I did

reach out to Sarah H with the Redevelopment Authority because I know they've used online surveys in the past so this would be specific to the property owners um in the this little boundary area plus the ones that we have already sent surveys to um just as a second survey and also to let them know that um there will be some public meetings coming up we just haven't scheduled anything yet um and I do know

that the preservation Society um because they have a application uh for CPC funding to fund the form BS um and likely all of that wouldn't start until after the New Year anyways um in terms of scheduling public meetings and that sort um so with that said uh regarding the target area is there any questions or concerns on that I did omit a few properties so um on your Maps there might be an an

accidental line around uh flr 326 which is on the top right corner and I didn't mean to do that I want to stay just one property in and not Branch out to other houses um just wanted to keep it tight as much as possible um are there any questions or um about or opposition to sending out additional surveys to them no okay it'll be the same thing that we've sent before and

then um okay you want that in form of a motion uh that would be great if we can yes so uh yeah well we should I'll make a motion that we extend the boundaries of our formb expansion for the 41 District as go drawing dated o the 15th formal looking okay thank you all right so I have a motion by Rick to extend the target area I'll second and seconded by Connie all right so motion

by Rick seconded by Connie to approve a an extension or expansion of the target area um for this map and I will have something more formal um all right may I get a roll call um Ashley yes John yes Elizabeth Yes Rick yes Joyce yes Connie yes and Jason Shari yes um and with that with a more formal looking map I will also um update um Dan aiar uh plan with in the planning

department as well as uh Corporation Council because I know they were they wanted to know what and as well as the mayor because they wanted to know what the target area was with the addresses so um um all right and I will generate the list of addresses and we'll get clist things out then um perfect um thank you and then regarding an update um uh I did receive a phone call uh from

somebody within the district um and I apologize I do not have their name U but they still have their survey and they haven't mailed it in um so I did tell her that we will be sending out a second a survey so she'll send that one when she gets it um there haven't been anything else coming in but I know Alex with the preservation Society um like I said had applied for funding uh for the

for bees um I believe the request was for $50,000 $50,000 um and I think the average is anywhere depending on the size of the firm that they will get quotes from will be in the ballpark between $250 to $500 a property and that's to create the one bees um and then provide a um uh a report that ultimately goes to MHC for their approval once they approve it then it goes bounces back up to us um

so that's really the only other update um but I mentioned the surveys will be on electronic form I think we'll have a better response that way um any questions um all right so it is 6 33 and I don't have anything else on the agenda um we are scheduled next to meet moment we are scheduled next to meet on Tuesday November 19th third Tuesday yep um so if I don't

have anything else I get a motion to adjourn the meeting at 6:34 PM please I'll a motion to second that motion by Elizabeth seconded by Ashley I roll call Ashley yes John yes Elizabeth yes rck yes Joyce oh yes and Connie yes Jason Bard Rocky yes right thank you very much everyone