10.17.23 Historical Commission

good evening everyone uh and thank you for joining us with the uh for tonight's meeting of the Fall River Fall River historical commission um it is Tuesday October 17th 2023 it is now 6: pm on the dot um and this meeting is being recorded uh and put on uh Fall River government TV uh which will also be available on the on uh YouTube as well um pursuant to the open meeting law any

person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible so if we can get a roll call please Jonathan Lio present Ashley dunia present Rick mansy present L BL present

Joyce Rodricks present and Jason bushard Rocky present um Connie soul is not here she's not not able to attend tonight uh we have no open seats on the board um all right uh first item on the agenda item number one um is to review and approve the minutes uh sent from Liz uh for September 19th 2023 I'll make a motion that we approve the meance of the meeting I have a motion by Rick I second

that motion thank you all right motion by Rick and a second by Joyce for the approval of the minutes uh all in favor yes I okay any opposed okay thank you um do we have any citizen input on any of the agenda items God bless you none um we did receive correspondence item number two uh this was a letter sent from the Massachusetts historical commission regarding a survey and planning Grant cycle uh received on

September 21st 2023 I did pass that around um so it's regarding um uh a matching Grant for the fiscal year 2024 um the funds have not yet been determined based on the budget but um it is we are eligible to apply for any survey grants um and for any nominations or anything of that sort um did you receive I did put that that all the fold emailed it I did okay perfect great thank you um so

item number three uh we have a notice of intent to demolish um this is 37 Handover Street uh the Ruben small house it is listed on the Fall River register of significant structures um the applicant South Coast Health is Seeking a renewal of the waiver of the six-month demolition delay that was initially approved by the historical Commission in November 2021 um that um ordinance or the waiver has since

expired um so we do have yes if you wouldn't mind uh introducing yourself and um stating your name with your address and who you're affiliated with abut thankk you good evening Mr chairman members of the board attorney Thomas is at 350 North Main Street use that microphone a little bit thanks certainly sorry about that uh attorney Thomas korin I have offices at 350 North Main Street in floriva Massachusetts I

represent uh South Coast Hospital group uh as the chairman stated uh the property at issue is 317 Handover Street fla Massachusetts uh South Coast and their representatives appeared before uh the commission I think approximately about 2 years ago um seeking a waiver um of the uh demolition delay uh which I believe was granted at that time uh as the chairman stated there's been a delay

in this project moving forward a few different hurdles and curveballs along the way that caused some delays but South Coast is uh ready to move forward at this point uh when they appeared before you I was not present but it's my understanding that South Coast made a couple of commitments to the commission and they want to ensure the commission that they are willing to stand by those

uh commitments today uh one of which was to put sort of like a little Memorial a plaque a bench um in honor of Ruben Smalls of the prior owner of the property also to put a vegetative screen along the easterly B border of the property screening the parking area uh from the neighboring uh residences and so we did submit some plans um which show uh that Memorial area the the bench

and the placard um which will be situated on the North Westerly corner of the parel of land you can see there's some green landscaped areas AB buding along Summerfield Street and then along the neighbor to the east of the property um and so again um they're reflected on the plans that we've submitted to you South Coast made that commitment two years ago they certainly are standing by

that commitment and want to ensure the board that all the representations that they made and committed to two years ago they certainly will do so again um but as I stated um they're they're anxious to move forward with this project now they think that this parking area area um would actually be a great benefit to not only the South Coast patients and staff but also the neighboring houses

that remain um as you know they can get a bit congested over in that area so um anytime that they can expand their parking area um and also you know keep in mind the sensitivities of of the surrounding neighborhood and try to keep some green spaces they're certainly looking to do that um with that um and I also want to introduce I do have uh William Burns from South Coast and

Nicole Rosa with me this evening who in case I can't answer any question that the commission may have hopefully they can so with that I'll yield and certainly entertain any comments or questions from the commission thank you um do we have any initial questions on no you're keeping in Steed with what was originally proposed looks very good it doesn't I don't see any significant changes as my recollection

is thank you I just have a general question yes about the whole area what's going on with Elizabeth house at some point I thought that building was coming down and maybe another building going up is there any information that you have on that could you identify the the Elizabeth house is I'm not sure which one you're talking about okay I believe it's the old nurses dormatory across the street

on Hanover um it's the School of Nursing okay so the the topic at hand happen is regarding 317 Handover across the street um but if you do have questions uh we can uh if we may ask at at a later date yeah I I I mean obviously if I had the answer to your question Miss Rodricks I'd give it to you Unfortunately they they they feed me information on a need

to know basis and so they strictly gave me 317 Handover and that's really all I know about at this point unfortunately um regarding um the so we have when uh we initially had approved the waver in 2021 uh We've have new members of the board now um so regarding the Ruben small house so the the house was surveyed in the 1980s um architecturally it's not that significant but pertaining to the

original owner of the house there's more importance there it does fit the criteria of uh being on the national register for example but um it's not listed on the national register um Ruben small uh for those that might not know he uh was from Province Town but he came to Fall River uh he and his brother opened up a rope manufacturing company right around the corner uh and he was the parks commissioner who got Olstead

Brothers back to Fall River to complete South Park um South Park and then ultimately designed uh had them design North Park so with his contribution as Parks commissioner we have two major Parks uh from from onstead Brothers uh that we have within our our boundaries so that is quite significant um so it's one of those examples of where the person person is more important than the

house so um but um and so regarding the I do have a question regarding the so this particular parking lot is there any because I do live at just to be open I do live in the neighborhood in not in the iMed immediate vicinity but there has been some encroachment with parking in the area um especially on Prospect and lyen street is there any future plans to expand that parking lot down

the line or is this a simple this is just consuming 317 Handover and two adjacent houses that are not on the reg yeah so for right now it's it's this parking area is just those three houses that you referenced um but I know that the hospital um you know is actively keeps their eye on all neighboring properties um because I obviously they one they they want to expand but they want to expand responsibly they want to

always keep in mind you know the neighborhood and the impact that they have on the neighborhood and also want to be able to provide obviously the utmost medical care of course um you know to it to its patients and make sure that its staff has uh ample parking as well okay so um they always have their eye on the area but I again right as of right now um I can't say that they're

committed to any other particular piece of property sure thank you um any other questions I have a question on the um the vegetative screen yes is that along the street is that Robison Street or is that a budding a residence so if you look on on the easterly side um this is a budding one uh another piece of property so it's identified as m17 lot 35 um now forly owned by a Veronica dun

oh that's on Summerfield street so the property is on the corner of Hanover and Summerfield I'm sorry maybe I I was looking at a different area no no it's okay it's person this is property here Mr may I absolutely so so Mr um we've got Handover and Summerfield so Handover and Summerfield so the larer thicker um vegetated will be AER residence and then there will be some small plantings along

Summerfield Street gotcha thank you and uh once uh a letter is received from us how soon would demolition take place uh I know that the um the contractor who's going to be doing the demolition has been retained and is looking to move forward I think ASAP we did have a conference call a few weeks ago um he seemed ready to go okay uh I'll make a motion if there's no other questions or concerns I'll make a

motion that we extend the variance or the it'll be a renewal at this point Y exactly okay I'll second the motion all right so I have a motion by Rick and a second by Elizabeth and this is to wave the six-month demolition delay um all right or to extend the existing one okay let's do that let's extend that expired okay so I have a motion by Rick and a second by Elizabeth to extend the

six uh the waiver of the 6mon demolition delay um all in favor I okay any opposed all right great EXC thank you very much thank you I'll send that letter over to you uh as soon as I can so my pleasure thank you very much for attending all right thank you um item number four um this is in regards to 277 Brightman Street um this is the formerly the Royal the theater on breitman Street

it was listed on the Fall River register of significant structures um the structure unfortunately was destroyed on a fire on September 19th 2023 um and has subsequently been demolished so I am looking for approval to remove it from the registry of significant structures I'll make a motion that we remove it from the r I'll second that thank you I have a motion by Rick and a second by Joyce to remove 277 Brightman

Street quick question before we uh finalize this what's that process of removing something from the register um so because it's not listed on the national register um it's merely on the city registry um so that is maintained by us by the historical commission um any edits any additions things like that so because we are the keeper of that registry um it's a mere just approving or declining things to get listed um yep

so but thank you um all right so I have a motion by Rick and a second by Joyce uh to remove 277 Brightman street from the registry all in favor I I I any opposed no all right thank you um under old business we have item number five uh 710 Rock Street um this is a reconstruction of a side porch that was destroyed via a car accident in April 2021 um the property is located in

the highlands 40c local historic district and hello um if you wouldn't mind uh stating your name and your address please I'm Sandra Melanson and I own 710 Rock Street thank you can I first say that I appreciate everyone's guidance in the book as well excellent thank you very much thank you I'm glad that's yeah I appreciate everyone's guidance on this and um I also the book came to the

house which is a good um the design guidelines yes thank yes it's a vital tool and it has helped us out immensely with uh with reviewing projects so um I did send around the email for the uh that you had sent over to me uh with the list um c y um So the plan is to um if you want to mind uh stating that what what is happening with the side porch um

just um well um do you want me to the history of it or um so it got so it got demolished by a drunk driver um a few probably going on three years now and then I had someone replace it not up to the standards of the historical district and then I got really sick for about uh a year and then um so you know kind of lost my whatever um so not I

just kind of lost my um enthusiasm to get it done quickly because I wasn't feeling well and then I finally found someone that was um familiar with the historic commission um parameters so he is going to do the porch up to the standards yeah thank you and um the list of material um did anyone have any questions on the list of material material for this I think before the material was basically all plastic and

so that's being removed so any PVC um that sort of thing um is being removed with um uh and replaced with uh wood um I'm see 1x4 mahogany decking stair treads uh handrail system is in Wood um and it's all paintable so that's even better so any details at all going on that porch other than the balls uh I think it's pretty minimal okay mhm is there going to be a

u some sort of a handrail placed against the building also the handrail will be on the porch but is there going to be another handrail placed on the building not that I know of it wasn't like that originally so I they're keeping it to yeah I don't I think they're keep why I'm asking yeah all right it's you know it's a common practice obious Yeah I'm impressed I'm impressed with the mahogany deck oh yeah that's very

nice yes and thank you for getting to this point and reconstructing the porch correctly that's very very impressive thank you for doing that thanks for your help too Mr manini when I in the beginning thank you thank you um do we have any questions at all um so this would be for a certificate of appropriateness um I'll make a motion okay thank you okay all right I have a motion by Ashley to

approve sorry thank you all right Ashley and Elizabeth all right I have a motion to approve the certificate of appropriateness uh by Ashley and a second by Elizabeth all right I'll second that motion Elizabeth already seconded um all in favor I I okay any opposed thank you I will send that certificate over uh to you uh as soon as possible so that way you can get going with the reconstruction so that um the

certificate can be used for uh towards it'll be used with your building permit um so they'll request uh that a copy of that when you uh go to file for your building permit okay EXC thank you and thanks for all your guidance thank you for following up on that too that was it had to be a shock yeah it was a all right thank you thank you Miss melinon okay um all right item number

six um is 572 High Street uh the Henry Davis house this is a window replacement um this uh property is located in the highlands 40c local historic district it was initially denied on July 19th 2022 we have Representatives uh if you want mind stating your name and the organization you're I'm Hilda mon I'm the vice president of operations for the far of a Deacon's home I am excuse me Roger Burch I work

for Venture window at 33 Freeway Drive in keston Rhode Island you said 33 freeway 33 yes 33 thank you all right um if you wouldn't mind um just giving an overview of the projects for the uh sure I was called uh to take a look at the windows at the High Street property uh they appear to be not original to the house they look probably 40 to 50 years old because they do have

mostly vinyl Jam liners and then wooden framed windows single pane which was very common for uh historical Replacements in the late 70s early 80s um most of them have some disrepair to them uh dry rot rotted fills rotted frames uh a lot of the vinyl Jam liners are cracked and damaged which uh could be a water damage uh problem down the road uh so after discussing the the situation with Hilda and I believe we

spoke um we are proposing to use Trimline ultrafit Windows uh they are almost an identical replica to what's there in terms of uh how they're installed they go in with vinyl Jam liners uh the sashes are installed uh separately piece by piece so it all goes in separate it's not a fullframe replacement window okay uh as far as light uh size of the window virtually no change to what's there now uh the only

differences would be the exterior would be aluminum clad uh for m maintenance and uh to last longer obviously and they would be double pain okay um the second floor right now has uh two over one grid pattern uh the first floor has no grids just glass so we would maintain that same look on the second floor with a 2 over one uh with uh simulated divided light so the grids would be ins inside

the window and outside the glass okay uh so it would look very very similar to what's there uh we do most of the historic properties in the Providence area Okay out of our office and we use these windows routinely for historic replacement okay excellent um how many windows all together 37 37 okay um and anyone have any questions on the application um so it was initially uh denied uh because the windows that were

being uh uh proposed were vinyl Replacements um which is not compatible with the um within the 40c um and um I believe I did forward a copy of the um design guidelines actually I think uh you did receive a few copies of the design guidelines so um aluminum clad is in the design guideline guidelines as um one that is recommended um so it is a wood frame with uh it'll be wood on the

inside correct okay all right what is the exterior trim uh the exterior trim on the window or on the the casing that's out there now the casing right now it's wood casings okay the house itself is aluminum sided uh but the casings are still wood and the casings will be changed as well are they being replaced uh no at this point we're just doing the windows okay casings will stay the same so they

going to be repainted clean scraped repainted looks like uh that would be a separate project right okay for for a different time we're gonna be putting these in if everything goes well right around Christmas so obviously any any maintenance to the to the exterior would have to be done Springtime U you can't paint in the CL but that's not in this budget no okay when removing the windows for the

replacement um just by the photos it looks like the the exterior casing and is pretty damaged so what's going to be the replacement protocol for pieces that are going to get broken and you're gonna have sure so the the ultra fed is actually going to come in and out from the inside of the building okay uh this these particular Windows have wooden stops on the inside that are screwed

into the frames so we're just going to unscrew the stops take out the stops pull out what's there put in new jam liners all the way around put the sashes in from the inside and then put the stops back nothing should be so we're not really touching the outside so if there is any damage we won't do any more damage to it we're not going to touch it the term you used was virtually the

same size that's very subjective does does that mean a it's within a quarter of an inchon it's within a quarter of an inch of redu of yeah okay and that's top bottom and size correct okay okay it's as close as we can get with today's windows it's just the term virtually just I understand throws a little flag up yeah um good um any additional questions I believe um this initially

we're going you're going through uh was it the uh Community preservation committee for grant funding um is that still the case with this or not with these windows but we are going to look at that for the replacement of the wood and repair for next year's Grant we just couldn't wait another year because of the amount of damage and the safety with the use and the the windows won't even stay up so

and that's the good thing about that program is um any additional work on the exterior um if you wanted to replace or pull off the vinyl odds are the original uh shingles or clap birs are still underneath that um that's an excellent use of um the CPC uh Grant funds um for nonprofits that's that's an excellent use for that um so okay great good do I have any questions on no so this would

be also for a ceric certificate of appropriateness okay I have no motion to approve all right so I have a motion by second John and a second by Ashley all right so this is for a certificate of appropriateness um all in favor I I I Joyce do you vote Yes or no no do you vote Yes or No second motion no no I don't have any questions do you vote Yes

or No we're approving the motion to provide the certificate of appro you want a motion to we've already had the motion I just need your vote Yes or no you want me to second no I just need your votes no no just a vote Yes or no if yes okay thank you I'm G you guys are going with this because I know we're moving this is such an educational package you know I'm I'm

learning about what Trimline does and I think Hilda this has been a educational effort for you too yes it this is quite a story well I have to say the book was very helpful I think last year we didn't have all of the information and Jason thank you I mean pleasure you've been very helpful in communicating and getting us the information and I have to thank Roger as well for coming tonight

because I couldn't have answered half of those it's our pleasure windows are is a hot button topic so really lost in learning this this is um much more than when you first came with a proposal and um I wish you a lot of luck with it thank you so I will forward I'll send over the certificate of appropriateness and you um so that will go with your building permit application thank you so much

thank you so much thank

you studying this package on window interesting I was reading it really I Wasing more for the warranty Mr chairman could we uh could we entertain a motion to move items seven and 8 towards the end of the meeting okay and move on to the new business so we will reum okay um so this we will re number um so next will be item nine will be number seven seven item 10 will be number

eight 11 will be 9 12 will be 10 and then right yeah and then item 7even and 8 will be 11 and 12 respectively okay correct all right um I have a motion by Rick to move those items to have a second I'll second thank you all right motion by Rick and a second by John um this is to move some items around um all in favor on moving those items I I thank

you you opposed thank you all right thank you so um so that would be um the now number seven will uh is under new business 528 High Street this is the Alfred Butterworth house also on the highlands local historic district uh this is the expansion of a rear shed and relocation of the driveway from the north side of the structure to the south side of the structure hello how are you good thanks

and let me just pass these out these are photos that were sent to us perfect excellent did everyone already goodness okay did you print these two all right if you want mind uh just introduce it or cting your name in your address please Ruben Al 528 High Street you thank you and um if you I wouldn't mind just uh going an overview of the project a lot of work at the house yeah

I know um so it's basically demolishing the shed that's there okay uh and making so it it doesn't get considered a shed anymore because we are planning to do a canopy attached so the roof line is over the square footage okay um previously they had um um an awning on a porch or deck that's no longer there uh we're going to keep everything level with the pool um so it is to

build a new um new shed would would a canop be attached to it would this be considered uh because said the square footage would it be considered an accessory structure that point okay is the shed going to remain the same in size it's going to the shed's going to be enlarged correct okay to to what size uh it's on on this okay all right 8 by 27 okay um and the materials on the

outside will be so it'll stay consistent with the house same thing um the first floor will be clap board and then the little Peaks on a um will be um shingles shingle in wood correct well so the clapboard is um um party backer so it's okay a composite composite okay composite okay and and the shingles wood right okay white C okay um and uh so the reason uh reason why this uh came before

us is because it is seen from the stre even though it is in the backyard it can it's it's in the back of the property but is it's straight down the driveway um or the current driveway so that right so that's the other thing so um when we purchased the house there was an easement there that got taken away okay um there used to be a carport on that side of the driveway and then after the

eement was gone um the neighbors the butters they moved the fence to the property line so now that driveway became much narrower than what it used to be okay um so we have plans to move the driveway to the other side because it's almost twice the width um and then if that happens then we'll also put a fence there a with fence so you wouldn't see as much to the

back oh in front of the shed you mean correct okay um so that driveway would be turned into grass area like the other side and then the fence will be put at the back end of the home uh maybe halfway halfway okay where that side door is extended okay yeah okay um and a question um now I can't remember was going to ask um the uh so regarding just doing

one thing at a time with the the shed um so ultimately it'll be covered by a fence the fence will be made of a wood wood okay wood fence six foot similar in nature to your neighbor's fence yeah I'll match it yeah okay okay that's right I yeah I just noticed that um so okay um we have any questions for Mr ala no so this is regarding the shed um all right so then regarding the driveway

um what material are you going to be Paving it papers yeah papers okay uh brick concrete um probably concrete we we haven't decided yet but we'll definitely um we were juggling the idea of stamp conrete or papers but we're probably going to go with papers um just because of the fact that it's going to continue to the pull Eng just for maintenance wise will be easier to build with papers

um I think in the design guidelines I think we it's recommended for no stamped concrete I believe uh the Double Check Yes um and um but papers any type of paper whether it's brick uh Cobblestone that sort of a thing so um so the Cur so the the thing with the curb cut that has to get appr approved by city council so that essentially they would be you would be re opening up that and then closing

up the other one um so for this it would be a letter of recommendation to city council for the curb cut uh that would assist yes that would assist and then uh and then obviously another approval to the building the new driveway and traffic commission would probably be involved with too because they they have to authorize the curb cut okay so you're probably going should get a letter to the traffic board also and

then you're going to request a hearing with the traffic board that's going to be necessary to get uh to get it looked at and get they're going to evaluate the street for traffic uh see if you're new drive or new opening is going to traffic yeah but we're not adding a driveway we're we're just moving it it's well you're going you're probably going to ask for a l larger cut than the one

that's existing right all right so those things have to be approved by the traffic board and then it goes to the city council okay so you'll have to make two of those and we'll get a letter to both right and a letter to the building department would help with the shed and so that would be a certificate of of appropriateness so I so far I have four things so letter of support for City

Council for the curve Kut same thing for traffic certificate of appropriateness for the shed certificate of appropriateness for the driveway be busy um okay all right all right um and then uh regarding the width of the driveway how far away from the neighbors I don't know don't know the address but on the left side I think we have about 22 feet um there's some bushes and plants that are planted there

um what I'm going to do is just because obviously the the grade is going to lower so I'm going to make like a foot wall um retaining wall there so on in on my property so okay the overall width is going to be close to 20 okay so has that been um provided to the building department like you've me you've met your offsets and all of that as far as

the shed yes not as far as the driveway okay all right um and when it when there's a curb cut uh presed the city council do they uh need to address the abuts at that point not that I'm aware of okay not that I'm aware of not for a cut on his in front of his property no okay all right um any questions on this just one on the pavers it's going to be I'm

familiar with the home that your sister uh put right down the rebuilt very nice historically correct great job uh are those pavers going to be your pavers similar and kind or I I don't think she'll allow me to go with the same okay no something in like within the same idea yeah okay keeping in that same context the uh interior and exterior designers back there so she she'll pick up the papers okay okay all right

excellent any other questions at all no quite the project the house the house looks fantastic I mean earlier the year it had no roof and uh yeah it's been nice job on the color it's really a unique color very very nice yes is nice yeah um but no the color of the the new color on the home oh it's different than starting to paint okay yeah starting I like like a it's a

it is it's a blue oh yeah yeah so this so we're going to do three four four colors it's going to be four callers four callers good keeping with the three at least traditional yeah good job thank you yeah looks like it it really does look like a brand new house but it's all it it's the same the outside everything is brand new so um all right so this would be um so

the four things that I listed a letter of support for city council for the curb cut uh letter of support for the traffic commission Also regarding the curb cut uh certificate of appropriateness two of them separate uh one for the shed one for the driveway so four items um that is being presented do I have any questions I'll make that as a motion a motion to approve that package for all

four for all four okay motion by Rick second Ashley Ashley we'll do Ashley all right motion by Rick and a second by Ashley to approve that package of the four uh certificates and letters all in favor I I any opposed all right I'll send that right over to you all right thank very much thank you very much all right um so next on the agenda formerly number 10 now item number eight

is 655 Rock Street this is the Charles Luther house in the highlands 40c local historic district it is a uh let's see we're looking at a roof replacement hello hello um you would mind us just stating your name and where Jim Holland man James Mr Fel is the owner the owner all right Pro manager and Jamesville you said Jamesville y okay just jotting this down good evening um so if you wouldn't

mind just giving us an overview of the projects um um we uh proposing to remove the shingles on a roof which are old three tap type of shingle okay um remove that strip it right down to the wood tack down any wood that might be loose that type of thing um then we go along water and ice Grace water and ice on the Dormers and into the valleys and everything like that covered um under

layment under it uh we're working with um duration um all cor duration shingles M which is probably one of the top shingles out there right now they actually have a wind a barrier where you nail into at top of it like a which actually gives about 120 140 mph wind back you know wind for it um all new drip edge on the house just to really bring the house get some glory to it

what it should be looking like but okay it uh is it similar to what is existing on the house currently yeah okay as as and then one other thing I'm doing is uh up on the top gutter up on the right hand side they had a leak up there and that type of thing so we're gonna replace the repairing oring place the gutter up there with light kind and I do

a lot of work out of Newport for Newport Restoration and all that so when I do it it goes right back to where it was you know white kind I believe up there is wood yeah yeah and that's what it that's what whatever it is if it's um if it's or if it's Cedar I'll try to work with the same thing but it'll look exactly the same when I'm done I've got a couple

of people that I I've been working with for probably over the last 30 years um and um not only can I get new they have stuff loaded you know in their warehouses of old pieces so I can make it work so it's going to look exactly like it is okay and the color of the roof shingles will be um pretty similar the same color the green yeah y yeah

like a green ttin to it um like I said it's a very good product that's going on it Jason you may haveon y okay great thank you I thought you were going to but I wasn't sure if you did um and so uh for the ordinance the uh preservation ordinance in the city we um we can improve material we cannot but not color we cannot approve or deny an application based on roof

color or paint color um but we can on we can do that on material can recommend stay yeah I think you said so yeah it's the color that we're looking at okay yeah I act you know go buy the book but I mean like you said whatever they looking and if he sent it in get get he got the right one he not putting pink on or green or yellow I've done some of those

now I've noticed quite a bit of work going on in the house which it's it's nice to see so it's it's a fantastic uh colonial revival um in in the highlands so yeah it's beautiful house it just just needs to get a little upgrade to it sure good okay you have any questions I have no question okay so this would be for a certificate of appropriateness uh for the roof replacement okay I'll make

that motion that we give them a certificate of appropriateness to reingle roof okay take care of got to work excent and okay I'll second that motion thank you Joyce all right motion by Rick second by Joyce first cerificate of appropriateness 655 Rock Street all in favor I I any opposed okay thank you all right I will uh uh Jim Steve Steve uh I will for the uh certificate over to

you uh once I get that drafted up so that um so that certific certificate of appropriateness will be used for your building permit um or it goes with your building permit so when you go to uh to uh the fifth floor um just have to hand that in when you're filing your permit so at least they check off that um um because they'll look up the address and see that it's in the the protected uh

40c District which requires our approvals which now you have so and how long does that take for your end to move into I'll have by the end of the week by the end of the week okay so for next week we can probably get it done I got some good weather coming in again it's raining every weekend so yeah it has looking to go up north to see the PO with you it's

like I looked at now North Car NOP I can't wa thank you so much thank you thank you so much have a good evening um all right so um item number 11 which is now item number nine um this is Municipal board assignments uh for monitoring of items pertinent to the historical commission um we've done this before um but since the merging of the historic district commission and historical commission we have

not uh followed through or at least updated that so um this is uh basically getting on to um the email lists from the different uh commissions uh getting their agendas uh anything that's pertinent to the historical commission to um keep us updated because oftentimes we don't we're not kept in the loop on some things um there's no need to attend all of these meetings oh no it's but what we'll

do is you get on the the agenda so the agenda is mailed to you and then if you see something that's to our historic commission that you can either attend or or let someone let Jason know be involved um so sort of a watchdog the wrong word but you know we sort of watching our best interest um so I will pass this um so I already receive um the updates from the zoning board of

appeals um so there's a few others um I will put myself down on city council um but if any of you want to just go through and just put your initials down as to which board and what I'll do is um I'll just forward the list to everyone so they have their you know their what they want to monitor um and does that make sense yes how how are we going to

get on it is there like information for us to um so that is a great question I so that um I think that would be an email to the city clerk okay office and Alison has all the contact information um just a suggestion also if you called an O'Neal Souza oh the mayor's assistant uh she will then call these cheer people these various committees I think I got a Miss call from her so she's she's next

when I'm done okay so if we want to just pass that um and just go through maybe just initial and then so that way we can do you want anything in particular um so that was that yes the three that I'm listed on is because I'm presently doing that and I'm on two of those commissions okay um so while we're doing that um is just a um marking down

um can we move on to the next item uh yes sure okay um so this is item number well it was item number 12 now 10 um so this is the introduction of the certified local government program and we have jenor here from um the state commission good evening thank you very much for your patience as well good to see us in actions that's good uh so I'm Jen Dy I'm the local

government programs coordinator at the Massachusetts historical commission um and so Jason had asked me here tonight to talk with you all a bit about the certified local government program um and I don't know had you sent around that giant document I sent you okay like 30 or so Pages it is very long but yes um kind of describes how the program works um so I'll just give a brief overview and then um I can take

questions from you all um if you want to talk about the application process with the program or you know whatever the case may be um so the CLG program is a program of the National Park Service it's been around since the 1980s and it's basically an agreement between the National Park Service the Massachusetts historical commission and the local community and it certifies that the local community has a higher

level of preservation activity um so it has you know a historical commission um a historic district that it oversees um other things going on in the community like you know Community preservation act or um the commission's active with a demolition delay ordinance or active doing survey um just you know different things to show that the commission is really kind of you know in control or

you know doing what they can with historic preservation in the community uh the there are a couple benefits of being a certified local government um the main one is funding um so Jason had mentioned at the beginning our survey and planning grant program part of that program is direct funding to the clgs uh so we receive uh money from the federal government every year from the historic preservation

fund we are required to pass through 10% of that every year to our clgs and we do that through the survey and planning grant program there are currently only 29 clgs in Massachusetts um there's obviously 351 cities in town um so the clgs are 29 clgs are applying for about $15,000 every year whereas those other 351 minus 29 are applying for around $1 15200 th000 every year um so it's a much

smaller pool of competitors in the CLG po lot of money um so it's more likely that you'll receive funding every year you can kind of do continuous projects um for example um Boston uh Medford and Marblehead uh they've been going through their communities really comprehensively updating their survey they get a grant every single year they come in and they've just been doing that um you know

updating their inventory forms um so that's really the main benefit of being a CLG here in Massachusetts um other than that a couple other things that it entitles you to um it um gives the community a more of a role in the National register process um so the national register process will actually start with your commission instead of our commission um so your commission makes an initial eligibility

determination um and then the process proceeds through a nomination um we more closely consult with our CLG communities in our review and compliance process um so we review projects under state federal law and so when communities a CLG we really make sure we bring them in um as a partner to really consult um in the process um and those are kind of the big ones I'm trying to think I have one more

oh the technical assistance so we do provide some additional technical assistance to clgs um right now the way that we're doing that is we um have purchased memberships to the National Alliance of preservation commissions for our clgs um so that's a National Organization that does a lot of training for preservation commissions they have a you know biannual conference they do a lot of

webinars those kinds of things um so we've been purchasing memberships for our clgs through that organization um those are the main benefits um I can talk a bit about the application process if you'd like sure yes please um so it looks very long in there it looks very long and detailed I know um and it's basically just so that we can kind of see what's going on and and not even necessarily us um but

really the National Park Service because they are the ones that's ultimately kind of agreeing to this um you know what's going on in Fall River what has your commission been doing you know over the whatever 40 years or so that there's been a commission in Fall River um so you know we look into the membership of the commission um we do like to see that there are some professional members on

the commission um it doesn't need to be you know trained historic preservationists but um architect attorney realtor historian architectural historian landscape architect you know those kinds of Affiliated Fields um or even just folks who have some kind of general interest in history you know have lived in a historic house for a really long time you know those kind of things as well um and then you know you have a

local historic district which is kind of the big hurdle for communities that's you know we have to make sure that you have that so we would just you know check your ordinance make sure that's all set um and then it's sort of a description of um you know what the commission does what you've been doing over the years um and how the CLG program might benefit you um it's a little odd in that the

agreement is actually with the community itself and not necessarily the your commission um so it is something that's ultimately signed by the chief elected official the mayor um but um hopefully that's an easy process of you know kind of telling them that's a good thing um and once you have all the application material together it comes to me at MHC um I will review everything and you know let you

know if there's anything missing um we have I believe 60 days that's off the top of my head I don't remember the exact number um to review it and make a decision on whether or not we think you're eligible for to be a CLG or not um if we agree and think that you are eligible we then send everything down to the park service um they're usually pretty quick I think the most

recent ones they've done within about two weeks or so they've concurred with our certification so um that's been pretty good um so yeah that's the appliation so in terms of um do you how for professionals on the board um what's the minimum that you would um we just would like to see something you know I did have a community that came in recently and you know the most that I

could say about the folks was that they lived in a historic house and that you know that we need something more than that you know it was and then it was like people who worked in like biotech or something it's like that's not you know not quite what we need we do need to see you know three or four folks who have some knowledge um and the reason for that is because again you then have

a role in the National register program you have to make decisions about whether or not something is eligible for the national register so we want there to be some knowledge on the commission um you know about historic resources um otherwise you know you do need to be finding a professional to help you make those decisions um whether that's you know having a professional preservation planner or having to bring in a

consultant to you know help you walk through that process do you uh require then uh resumés I would imagine yep and so part of the application process is submitting resumés um it can just be a regular resumé um if you are an academic person I do not need your 10 page CV you can certainly shorten something down I've had that come up quite a few times um and then if you're someone who just

for whatever reason doesn't have a resume you can certainly just write us a letter um sort of outlining your qualifications so that's fine as well and that's from everyone on the board that's from everyone on the board yep and any um I I don't think I don't see any staff here so I don't think you have staff but if there were sort of dedicated staff for the commission we

would want to see that uh we do have a clerk uh that's uh employed by the city okay well I if it's more like professional planning staff is what we usually look for then yeah okay y okay excellent um it seems more daunting than it actually it it is so I will say you know when I I worked in Framingham as their preservation planner and we went through the process and honestly the rumes thing

was kind of the hardest part of just trying to get sure you know and there they had two full commissions um and so trying to get resumés from you know 20 people was not fun um but that's that's kind of the hardest part sure um and I certainly you know I encourage you to send me a draft if you do decide to put together an application um send me a

draft and I can let you know ahead of time if there's you know anything that you know might want to just beef up a little bit or change um you know I can certainly help with that um because again it's ultimately going down to the park service you know we at MHC generally have an idea of what's going on in Fall River but the Park Service doesn't you know what's you know Fall

River to them so um you just want to make sure that you're really you know making it clear um what's going on in the community okay um trying to think the other question I have was um is there a application deadline at all it's just open it's just whenever whenever you get it into me okay excellent is there a process for Renewal like how long does the certification last yep so

there um there's two two review forms of review I guess um so each year there is an annual report that needs to be submitted um and that again it's it's one of those things that's kind of time consuming but basic you know information um kind of about you know where there changes in membership um you know what how many meetings did you have what kind of cases did you review um you know what

kind of certificates did you issue um and providing some sample minutes and things like that um so that's the annual report that's done annually and then um we do a trienal evaluation so every three years we do a larger evaluation um but for the most part it's just kind of reviewing the annual reports um you know reviewing anything else we've kind of heard from the commission at MHC um you

know what kinds of projects have you worked on have you applied for survey and planning grants um have you done National register nominations that kind of thing um so looking at all of that um and then you know certainly we have desertified communities before um you know but hopefully you know everything's in line you know we won't do that so um we've had some transition uh within uh a

little over a year ago where we had um the two separate commissions historic district commission and historical commission they merged in I want to say July of 2022 um and uh how do you look at when so I don't think we actually did file an annual report for 2022 I don't think because that was not yeah so is that something so the annual reports that we get are actually completely separate

from what you file with the the city um we have our own format for that so it's yeah I was looking at the history of it and was not consistent with the um I guess yeah with the prior to two boards it was not consistent at all um so I think the last one that was filed it was a while ago but um yeah so yeah no that that's fine I mean as long as you know

moving forward you're on top exactly yeah that's on my that's on my list so um okay and um I did notice um also uh there was a line for rehabilitation where can you describe what like grants for rehabilitation work what does that usually entail not sure what that was referring to okay um I think one thing is that um under the survey and planning grant program usually for most communities it

is survey and planning work um so updating inventory forms doing a preservation plan doing new design guidelines things like that um certified local governments can apply for um pre-plan work for um physical preservation projects okay um so for example right now Easton is a CLG and um their town hall is a former estate property a former as estate um and they're actually doing a landscape plan

um for the state because they want to bring back some of the landscape elements um so because they're CLG they can do that under the survey and planning grant program um rather than our Massachusetts preservation projects fund program which is a different program and that could be used um as well as like a either structural or a feasibility study on a city owned building yep something like that yep so

you know if you were like oh we want to you know we're going to do some construction work at City Hall and we need to you know think about plans or something like that um you know you could certainly it has to be historic though has to be historic yes I'm sure this one is is on the cusp it is his well it's not listed on the registry

yet um okay um just it was a question um and so that would that have to come would that request or for Grant have to come from the from the municipal historical commission not from the city um it could be either um we get them from either one um you know usually it's the historical commission itself but if or Redevelopment Authority or yeah if the city wanted to take on the project I

mean they certainly could sure okay you know all right that's good to know so it's open all right any other any questions no at all this is good good job thank you thank you um um yeah I think there was I had a question from um so I did invite uh members from the mayor's office city council and then um our community preservation committee Unfortunately they were not able to attend I did

receive one question because that he was not able to attend this is from uh the city council president uh Joe CRA um it's in regard it was in regards to the rehabilitation um there's a on the National Park Service description of the CLG said something about rehabil Rehabilitation work so that's yeah so so actually so the money that comes from the National Park Service um we can use

it for rehabilitation but right now the way that we use the money we don't right um so um I will say we do have our Massachusetts preservation projects fund which is open to municipalities um that is it's um State money um and it's a 5050 matching Grant um that is out for um municipal or nonprofit owned buildings that are listed on the state Register of historic places okay what amount of monies are we

discussing here um it's thousands or Millions yeah it's usually not not million certainly um it's usually in like the $50,000 range yeah because it's a very heated project in the city and it's a 15 million 12 to 15 million project so a small piece of that but that it could be used towards like rehabilit uh not re um feasibility study I believe um so and and what was the name of that Grant again the

Massachusetts preservation projects fund mppf and so that we usually announce um you know November December time or so for the application open okay y that's good to know um and then in ter last question for me in terms of the grants is there a like a limit or like a minimum limit or uh um so for the survey and planning grants um we if you're doing a survey project where you're you

know documenting historic resources uh the minimum is a $25,000 total project cost um again those are 50% matching so the community does have to provide 50% of that 125 um I will say we have been encouraging communities to go a little bit higher 30 35 um we do have a consultant shortage right now um and you know 30 $35,000 just a little more enticing than $25,000 um we have a $25,000 project in

New Bedford that we haven't found someone to do yet so um we're you know suggesting they go a little bit higher but um and so with the grant funds uh say if our commission has awarded uh a matching Grant and we're able to get the balance from uh can the balance come from uh CPA funds or no that's a great question okay just out of curiosity um so so CPA funds are kind of a gray area

um we do have communities that come in and use them for our survey and planning grants and we have communities that come in and then their city solicitor tells them no they can't do that okay um because technically the CPA legislation is for rehabilitation work um some CPA communities use their administrative funds you get that 5% yearly administrative funds um so we know some folks have done that because it's

considered sort of a planning activity that can help the CPC make decisions about their projects locally um but it is it's a great area okay Department of Revenue hasn't shut down any Community yet I will say you know they haven't said anything to any specific Community um and like I said we do still have communities that come in but um yeah kind of a great area cool right unfortunately no no that that that's it

would make it also gray as uh the type of project because it might be a land preservation or a building preservation so in that aspect the money could be used for that yep um is there a limit there I mean for if we were to receive Grant funds I would imagine we would have to go through the standard protocol of putting an RFP out and so forth we help with that whole process

yeah we um for the survey and planning grants um we do a lot of handholding for communities you know we get communities all across the state um you know very small ones to you know our major cities um so we we definitely do a lot of handholding through the whole consultant selection process okay that's good okay yeah because as we're finding and and we're going through um a lot of our form

BS have not been updated since the 1980s but I would imagine that's the case across the state the case y pretty much in every community so and we have the the unique situation of having uh many fires that have burned down City Hall so a lot of historical records are very hard to find um so yeah okay y so we could certainly help with that through the survey and planning grant program cool excellent any questions at

all no actually uh do you have any uh consultants in your list that uh uh do archology sites uh archaeology folks um I am not as familiar with them just because I don't do as much archaeology um but if you contact our office and give an idea about what kind of a project it is is um they may be able to suggest a few folks okay good thank you y I used to work for

one that's right pal right I was say that that is the most obvious one yes for down here yes is pal but yeah and that's that's exactly who had M okay all right um cool yeah um because we have yeah we have projects so we're we're early in the stages of um trying to expand our local 40c um so we have 40 it was 47 and there's a subdivision so now there's 48

buildings so um but uh we're looking to expand that obviously we also would love to have there's a whole area of the northern part of Fall River that was just not surveyed at all in the 80s and so it is in my professional opinion definitely eligible for National register consideration um so it's you know things that we just need to start yep focusing on lots of projects yeah and that's so yeah certainly if you know

the CLG program kind of like I said allows you to come in um year after year here and just kind of move through the city great and get everything done um is there a benefit for developers if they're using historic tax credits if they're in a CLG no it doesn't really apply um the only thing that really changes is again um if the building is not currently listed on the national register that process would start with

you all first and then come up to us um and not not with us so y yeah that's great excellent any other questions at all no very fortive thank you the nation getting registered on the national register can be quite lengthy it is yes it is not a short process and quite cauly it is yes y yes um yeah so I will say the other thing for the the you know

city council the mayor's office you know the one question I do get from them a lot of times is kind of like well what's the you know where's the catch here you know whatever and and they're honestly really isn't um you know it doesn't cost the city anything to be a CLG you know it's not like a membership or anything um and you know they're not responsible for anything nothing's going to happen

you know again the worst that happens is you don't do anything you don't file your annual reports and we decertify you you know that that's kind of that so um you know that is always the other question is you know where's the catch and you the relasing one so yeah okay cool good thank you yes thank you very much making the be a time thank you and always if anything else comes up

certainly let me know absolutely thank you right um so we're jumping back into so this would be item formerly item seven now item 11 this is an update on the form bees in steep Brook okay and that is Rick all Rick all right um well I'll I'll sit right here because it's all part of being on this historic commission so uh we have Roger Williams University as you Weare has volunteered

and they're in the process of doing form or creating form BS for the Steep Brook area uh they've chosen 22 properties and a number of them are on a significant structures list a uh the process is uh activ really very active they've been meeting in the city they they met last Thursday in the library they're going to be back this Thursday in the library and the following Thursday in the building

Commissioner's Office checking permits oh um okay so that's really working well unfortunately the Historic Society or historical society in the city is shut down because of rehabbing and remodeling so then unable to get through that but they'll look at the sandbo files and again tremendous amount of of information in the library that's being worked at and the building department also has permitting so you can go back

quite far on a piece of property with permits so the the the city itself building commission of Glenn haway is very helpful that's good yeah yeah and and they're going to have these records available and Glenn has stated that it's it's entirely up to them as to what they need and require and he will give them as much assistance as possible that's great yeah so that's going to transpire

on the 26th I believe is the is the two Thursdays away and that's the date that they'll be in the city hall working on this uh project it could take a couple of couple of Thursdays to accomplish um the the main reason I'm bringing it up is to give you this information that's the Steep Brook area which is going along well uh we did receive a grant the historic commission applied to the CPU

and received the grant it was extended because it laid Domin just because of the person who was actively pursuing this passed away and U we S I took the Mike laasia myself took this funding and started running with it um to to get this done and there are approximately 98 uh sites over in the bio reserve on the other side of farer as you aware or not probably half of the land of Fall River

is situated on that eastern part of the pond and uh I was actually I've been with Mike and he's just a this man is just a just a world of knowledge in that bioreserve area and what's to be preserve there is amazing so part of this grant is going out as we speak U our planning board director Chris uhana is uh actively putting out a request oh okay for proposals uh for

funding to take care of a portion the remaining portion of the Steep Brook what's not being done there were 22 additional buildings or properties that are on a significant structures list in the state Brook that are not being looked at by Roger Williams University so we're going to take hopefully some of this grant money to get that portion completed if not it looks like Roger Williams will next year go back and do

the other 22 so it's we're going to get it accomplished one way or the other which is really a great thing uh and we also want to stop preserving what's over on the bio Reser so it doesn't get destroyed there's historic sites that goes back there's U I just I just heard that King that Chief Phillips was when he was up there oh King uh King philli King Phil yeah uh

when he was chief he had his last formal uh meeting I guess and uh I guess they didn't call they didn't call them festivals in those days but they had their meetings and there was a a platform it was all Stone built it was rather nice and what happened as as history goes this when the when you had the the civilian Corps uh come in in ccc's and the 30s went in and actually

destroyed it all they drilled it blew it apart and P passed all the stone Ro down to the to the edge of the water and just deposited it there well he he being Mike laasia researched that with a group and they started finding where the stone the actual oh interesting yeah he I don't want to boore you and I know running short time but he established a number of people like 50 foot apart and walked

down Blossom Road towards the pond wow so so someone found something that was interesting and that's when they found this and then they researched it and you could see where it was blasted blown away and again they found the um so the the writings and the history of that is actually factual you know so it's another site that can be yeah you know enhanced and and recorded and all of

these sites at this point are not none of that's recorded in in any of any City documents so uh that's what we're trying to get accomplished what I would like today is I have to get back to we have a uh we call a memorandum of understanding they the Roger William calls it an MOA memorandum of agreement and uh we're going to sign this in talking with the planning board director uh he felt it

was best that we here at the historic commission just signed the paperwork for the Steep Brook because there's no course to the city and it's it's really a historic commission project so what I would like to do is just get a vote take a vote I'd like to make a motion that we uh agree to get Jason to sign the form so I can get this back to uh Professor Elaine

Styles and any questions on this bio reserve and and the Steep Brook process we're going to get well entrenched uh a lot of form BS actually across in the bi Reserve I think they call that formas because it's land form B are buildings so what we're going to do is uh actually get a lot of formb experience so that when we ex start expanding the commission the 40c district we're going to be well

entrenched so it's working out very well it's giving us a good education and getting us a good push in the right direction good does the does that the buo reserve does that also include the area around interlocking yes does oh yeah y That's great there's a lot there yes there is if if you haven't been out that that way um actually I think Mike has done the tour out there a few times

it's it's fascinating it's the oldest state of uh Spencer bordon and um he had a giant mansion that was on the banks of North well it was all one pond at one point um before it was the reservoir and um uh when his property was seized it was after his death the property was seized by the water department so they can create the reservoir uh system and um so the property was seized the

Mansion was demolished but the roadways are still the dirt road of what was New Boston Road still exist exist with the stone walls and the foundation of his estate is still there and uh so once in a while he'll do a tour um usually in the winter it's a lot easier in the winter um because it's just so overgrown with trees and veget uh you know different uh plants right now but it's

uh it's fascinating to see yeah historically I'm this is it is fascinating and I'll give you a piece of data that I just acquired myself I just explain to me there is in the North W uper Pond over on the I guess it would be on the east side but on the on the west side of the of of the water the land on the on the east side there's a

stone and in the stone is a a brass rod with a marcker right and that marcker is a gauge and that gauge was used to Mark the property lines there were six large Mills around the North and South wupa ponds and that marker was the gauge to measure the the height of the Mills and how they would set their their first layer their first layer of foundation height in order to uh use the the the

water successfully and the marker is still there and they actually would determine property lines along the shoreline so your property line in in salt water it's high tide okay well in freshwat where's the shoreline is it there well gee when the pond is full it might be here so where's the shoreline well that marker was the gauge so you knew where your Shoreline was and it's still in existence today that's great

yeah isn't that something and now that's another piece of history that should be preserved for for River and that goes back Ian we're going back a few hundred years when that Mar was put in there so amazing excellent this is great thank you Rick so could I make a motion that uh we approve the signing that Jason signs the mo MOA so I get return to Professor Styles I'll second the motion I'll

second that motion okay all right so we have a motion by uh I'm sorry who motioned uh motion by Rick and a second by uh Joyce this is for the approval uh or the approval of a an MOA not a letter I have the Moa here oh the oh this is just to sign m a mem and this is with Rog Williams University okay so we'll just sign that and we'll be ready to go

um all in favor I I I okay any post no all right um no this is great wants to just look at it's I meant to ask is this uh are they obviously they're on the preservation program at Rog Williams is the undergrad or the grad program this is the undergrad undergrad oh good okay it's my alma and if anybody wants to take a quick look this is the memor that's some take a quick through

that and this is the uh paperwork that Chris Pana is getting together to go out for an RFP so if you just want to take a quick look pass the uh program at Roger Williams the preservation program it's the oldest undergraduate program of it kind in the United States um and um the oldest graduate I think is at Cornell or Columbia one of those two but um they it's also one of the only programs

preservation programs within the context of the school School of Architecture so there's a big EMP emphasis on uh research and uh building documentation and my goodness Elizabeth and I are both from that program so have a lot of research time those those are the remaining properties step Brook yeah that'll be done next year take a okay see that sorry so let's see um I'll let you review that and then we

will move on to the next item the historic locations in the bio Reserve that's a list of the historic okay excent thank you rck um while we're while you're looking through that um should we move on to the next item it's just an update uh expansion yes expansion okay so this is item was item 8 now item 12 regarding the expansion of the Highlands local historic district um I did provide you a

copy of the full copy of the establishing local historic district um publication from the Massachusetts historical commission um so I Connie was to provide uh the copy of or the copy of the letter um uh I will have you look first um a copy of the letter from um that was initially mailed out in 2013 I think it was uh for the initial creation of the for the study committee anyways

and she could not find it um so my uh um she thinks the preservation Society of Fall River might have a copy but they haven't looked yet um so my suggestion is that uh we use the sample that it is listed in that booklet um we use the sample um we obviously alter it so it it um suits our uh our situation in Fall River um and you know I had six copies PR said I

don't have mine with me but um so it's there's a sample letter in there we just have to change the vocabulary around um and once we have that drafted we can make a maybe at at our next meeting we can vote to approve the letter um we do need to figure out an area of focus so the next meeting um I will have the um a map of the neighborhood um I'll have couple Maps

I'll have one of the immediate neighborhood um say like a few blocks within the existing boundaries I will get another map of an even larger if we decide to go that route um and that will also dictate what is in our wheelhouse if we're able to do a smaller one if it's a larger one then we might need to take up uh maybe apply for a grant or something

of that nature to focus on that um but at least and at least then we have an idea of what where the letter will go um and we'll draft up the uh I'll ask Harry to mail that out to addresses we'll just have to compile a list within the boundary lines um so in fact it's uh funnily enough uh Jennifer doy who was here earlier is uh in charge of the local historic district uh um ordinance

with the state so ultimately any expansion will go to her as well um so so yeah would it be too cumbersome or premature to start looking at a combination of a group and probably single dwellings that are situated throughout the city where people might want to put their home in a 4C so with the if we're expanding the histo of the expanding the highlands historic district I believe it has to be

contiguous I think that's the word um if we if there are homes in the district that would be far outside of the boundary line um that we can nominate or at least do uh create a basically a study at that point to create an individual so individual properties can get listed as a local historic technically local question would be do we want to approach both Avenues at this same time or do we want to just stick

with staying with the group I think maybe sticking with the group just because um if we do individuals I it wouldn't be able to um within the current boundary lines I think we would have to expand those lines and they would have to be connected somehow um and individual properties would have to be individually well yeah any individual properties would have to be individually listed as a separate historic district

um yeah if they're not connected to the highlands 40c bound line um that's how I'm understanding it um so like for example and it has to follow the same theme for example if we wanted to explore doing a local historic district on mid-century houses of Fall River there's a lot all in the North End um you know we can do that they don't have to be connecting but they have to follow

that theme of mid-century um because you will not find a neighborhood you know it's very rare to find a neighborhood of you know one solid block of mid-century houses um um uh or if there's a theme of you know a specific architect that might be significant that you know we can focus on we can do a theme like that um or Mill housing for example so there's different Avenues to go with but for the

highlands 40c it's pretty the boundary lines are pretty pretty set with the I guess the the scheme I guess or the schematic of the plan I does that make any sense okay yeah just my comment only to see if if we wanted wanted to want take both Avenues simultaneously because one is and I fully understand here what you're saying they sort of separate components right um I mean we could um and see if there's

any individual ones then we would have to yeah we would have to address those uh separate yeah they would have to be separate so this is pertaining to the highlands so we would have to do a completely separate different study on that but yeah yeah we can do that if there's any if there's any properties in particular that you're thinking um so um the grand scheme of the or at least the size of the 40c compar

comparable to the actual National register District that it's in it's it it's night and day like the 4C is very small the national register is quite large um it extends all the way up Highland to about I want to say Stanley or weedo one of those streets it doesn't go too it doesn't go far back it doesn't include Handover Madison out that way uh I don't know if it even includes I think

it doesn't include North Park um but nothing on President AB up Seven Hills doesn't does not include that so it's very like linear up up Highland Avenue but then once you get down towards Charleston it splits off and then it goes down towards um down to about I think June Street I want to say at the bottom of the hill and then down to about cherry or walnut the southern end

of the district so it is quite large br's out so okay um so that's the update that I have so far um so we could I I can draft I can use the sample letter draft it or if somebody wants to take up that um you know I welcome any suggestions if anyone wants to draft the letter I'm happy to do it myself and then we can tweak it at our next meeting

um okay okay perfect all right so that's the update for that um I can put I can start like a draft and send it over to you and cool excellent thank work yeah that works for me thank you um great and um uh there was a delay in getting the uh design guidelines out from the uh from um the planning office so they all went out um there's a lot of uh there

were some houses that had changed ownership and uh I was going back and forth between I I got a list from the assessor's office but I'm like no this is not correct um so I had to go back and forth with a few um with a few houses but it's all good so those all went out um and let's see so that is so we um I did get um a request this is not on the

agenda but I did get a request today from uh city council president Joe chra um he is asking for um an opinion of the historical commission with regard to the bank Street Armory sale they have a meeting I believe it's being brought up on Tuesday the 24th um he has asked for an opinion um does require a vote from us we're not prepared to do that I have asked for backup uh for I need background

information on it um so once I have that I'm um it would have to be a public meeting but um uh I believe we can do that virtually um and uh it would be considered a special meeting I believe we just need 24-hour notice on that um so I will contact Alex for Alex uh for a list of um virtual dates and availability um so it would be between what's tomorrow um Wednesday so

it'll be between uh I don't really want to do a meeting on Friday but either Thursday and or Monday um so I will send an email just looking for availability on that um and this is uh so we could present it to city council they have a meeting on Tuesday the 24th so ideally Thursday would be preferable just so we can meet their meet their deadline of material but he's looking for an opinion

of the historical commission um with regard to the sale of that building so it is a Hot Topic in the city right now so yes um all right so with that um any anything else long meeting tonight anything else that anything that should come on the agenda next month um no oh that's the other thing um so we are tentatively scheduled to meet Tuesday November 22nd 2023 uh that is Thanksgiving week is that going to cause

an issue if we meet that week not that Tuesday no okay so we will stick with the 21st okay all right so um with that said I would like to make a motion to adjourn the tonight's meeting at 7:31 p.m. we will be meeting next um or regular scheduled meeting on Tuesday November 21st 2023 I'll make a motion that we adjourn this meeting thank you second the motion Elizabeth all

right a motion by Rick a second by Elizabeth to adjourn tonight's meeting all in favor I thank you