10.30.2023 Fall River School Committee Special Ed/ Alternative Ed & Early College Sub Committee

call to order the special ed and alternative Ed and early childhood subcommittee can you please call the role M Dr here M Perera here M Rodrick here please stand for salute to the FL sah of the United States of America to the repic for it stands one nation God indivisible Li and justice for all first the open meeting law any person may make an audio video recording of this public meeting or may transmit

the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or un perceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible do we have any citizen input we do not so we'll move right on to 3.01 discussion and vote to refer I want to thank everybody for we postponed a few of these from the last meeting so we're

meeting a couple times in a row but we'll turn it over to the superintendent or Dr B whoever you wanted Dr B um so as you know we brought the attendance policy to the policy subcommittee at the end of August to be able to have it on the August school committee agenda um as we shared out uh the policy it stayed status quo it was not a new policy everything about the policy was

forwarded the same some of the changes that were made were more if you remember in relationship to getting out some of the extra language that made the policy hard to understand and really getting to the nuts and bolts of what the policy was stating as far as what students will do and what we will do as a school um when that policy went was beginning to be utilized and leveraged and we were

getting to the point of early October because if you remember this was on the agenda for a couple weeks back that was right as we were getting to the place of preparing for progress reports at our secondary schools for the term um and when the policy was further examined deeper specifically speaking to the D4 policy um the the high school staff and the Middle School staff specifically

came forward requesting uh that we take a look at daily attendance versus class attendance in speaking with the secondary folks they felt as though class attendance is more related to discipline for kids cutting class and skipping class and that they were navigating supporting those students and looking at those students um separately and working with those students and their families as a disciplined place

but when we think about daily attendance to be the focus for the policy as it relates to kids earning the 64 we feel as though we have a very good handle on daily attendance more so now than we have in the last few years with all of the monitors that are assigned to daily attendance the support staff at our secondary schools cycling around and supporting with the buyback policy um when we start getting into class

attendance it becomes a much different ask of our support staff um some classes meet three times a week some classes meet twice a week and so to start getting to the nitty gritty um as far as that goes with the attendance policy Our Hope was to change the overall language simply to read daily versus class um just so that you know I did pull some data um of our Secondary School

particularly up at the high school where we know Class Cuts would happen more regularly um as opposed to the middle school where it can be tracked with more fluidity over the course of a day because when a student's missing from the class everybody in the class knows you know Bobby's not here today or Bobby is here where is he and they kind of out them out the kids themselves as they're

trying to skip class the high school as we know because classes are not cohorted it's different kids in every class so tracking the Class Cuts looks different and particularly looks different when we're talking about tracking grades um we continue to require teachers to post class attendance for some teachers it still becomes a challenge and so navigating all aspects of class attendance just becomes a different

beast when we're talking about assigning a grade lower than what the student earned as a result of class attendance so as we look at the Freshman you know just right now we've got 73 freshmen at the high school who for first term have had a class cut but when we look at the number of kids that have had more than two Class Cuts it feels very manageable in the sense of discipline feels as

though it's being rendered uh you don't see repeated Class Cuts based on what I was able to pull right out of the system are there kids cutting class yes but does it look as though based on the data that for the kids who have cut class it feels as though it's being addressed because it's one-off situations there are some kids where it becomes a little bit of a pattern but even those patterns

do not feel overwhelmingly excessive at this point um as it relates to Class Cuts currently cuz I do believe that was something that was brought up when we first entered into this discussion yeah how many disciplines have there been at the high school for Class Cuts well I have as of right now it looks as though there have been for term one year to date right now there have been 541 Class Cuts

entered and what was the discipline what is the like I'm assuming it the consequence consequence and then you know I think so I I didn't look to see how it was being disciplined so this particular report is the incident report so I pulled the incidents which are class cup I did not pull the actions to class cup you can get that but I can pull the actions I just don't have that in right

in front of me I was more looking to see how often is class cutting happening um and if it's happening repeatedly for the same kids for me that would send a message we're doing nothing about it right if a kid cuts a class if a student cuts a class and it Bec becomes a one-off experience it would lead me to say there was an intervention a conversation an expectation and the behavior changed for some kids the

behavior has not changed but even those numbers of multiple Class Cuts Beyond two I'd have to pull it explicitly but it's not rampant it's not does it have how many have three how many have four five like it does I just have to I just would haveing because as you're talking the the the class as I read here you know class attendance and cutting class is a disciplinary response if we're not checking with

Fidelity class attendance then this is Nolan void because if I happen to be in her class and she checks the attendance and I cut I get dinged if I happen to be in his class and he doesn't I get away like that's where I was trying to you know we're not looking to not take attendance in the class we're saying it shouldn't factor into the D4 right they're we're still expecting that

teachers are going to be what uh Amy Dr B saying is that um class attendance is being um addressed but it's being addressed at the teacher and administrative level as a cons as a disciplinary issue but we are we're not advocating for class attendance not to be taken I mean it's the basic expectation I would think that CL every class is you take attendance at every class I'd be curious to see what that

report shows so if we have 100 classes how many are they actually taking the attendance because I see it as a basic you know you're running a class that's the first step to take attendance if we can't figure out that everybody with Fidelity is taking attendance and know who's in your class or missing in your class we got bigger problems than curriculum or anything else so I completely agree I I also just know from

experience um navigating over 200 staff every day to make sure that class attendance is taken and following up and catching up on a day-to-day basis is a is a big job too and I want to make sure kids are not getting penalized at the class level because someone is or like you happen to be with the teacher that takes class attendance at every class and then another student happens to be

with a teacher who maybe doesn't take attendance we can monitor daily and through monitoring daily you can see classes that were and we're not we can also run reports to go back and hold teachers accountable for that class attendance I have a question so what's the process now for taking I'm a teacher in the classroom what is my process for taking attendance the expectation is that that is the way that you start your

class is it on a piece of paper that I sub to computer on a computer right that's what I figured CU I mean I used to teach not too long ago I figed if I was to so if I didn't put my attendance in immediately not immediately but the principal could look up and see what teacher wasn't didn't put attendance in correct M so could we do that maybe on a

principal just to me is it a concern that teacher not taking attendance I don't I haven't seen not directly I I haven't seen the data but I'll be curious to see what the data shows so I would agree with you if we ask for the data and it shows we have 200 teachers and only 150 of them are taking with Fidelity attendance every day I think that's a problem no kidding

until we get the data I don't want to pass judgment on what's Happening absolutely I would imagine it's being done but again you don't know but we'll wait to see what the data shows I'm sure when you see it if it's not good you're going to address it to me the next time that we talk but I would like to I just think it's a basic of you take attendance first let's get the class

under control we got to know the kids we got to know who's in the room you know I've heard stories of kids sitting in a classroom for the entire year last year at dery high school it wasn't their class I shouldn't have those calls being made to me where you know how do I have like we know everybody in the room that's here what if some you know what Uninvited person was sitting there well

I okay so I I would say to put that out there on camera that's a concern to me that we would say that's if that happens then I would say you direct that person to me because I I don't I I would say that that's not the the what the expectation is nor it is the norm so if if somebody is alluding to that then refer to me so we can address it

absolutely but to put out there for people to think that they are strangers in classrooms I wouldn't say strangers Str students we don't want to do that I would say not strangers I apologize for that language the when I was reading stranger was for the class so if you're supposed to be in her class and you're not but you're sitting in my class it double folds now I don't have I got the

wrong person in she's got the person that's supposed to be with her but not with her but I went to Amy's class because I'm friends with Amy so I wanted to hang out in Amy's class for the day that I've heard of students doing not just in our to be clear I have not just heard that in our district I've heard that in multiple districts well kids will be kids right but I think but I

will be kids certainly and I and I and I'm not I don't know I'm not goingon to say it doesn't happen because then I don't have t St not right however when I kids do right when I think about what our asks are I here's I guess my part we want to be able to implement a rigorous attendance policy that holds kids accountable at the same time I don't want all of our support staff to turn

into clerical aids to navigate period one to period seven all day we are trying to be we've also asked a number of our support staff to be present in hallways make sure the school is safe and and predictable in all other angles and we want to make sure that our staff are available for when key need support and need to be able to speak with their counselors and whatnot we have tools

that very for and the other part is this we're trying to make attendance monitorable for families we're trying to engage families to say hey Johnny's had four absences they need to be in school it's very hard to communicate with families the class attendance as well as the daily attendance for our families to understand what their role is get your kids to school we will communicate

everything else after that and so when we think about the attendance policy and not having it to turn into a clerical Chase I was here on Monday and again even when I think about it the majority of our classes are five days a week in most cases we will have a few one-offs on the elective side more specifically for elective credit towards graduation where the one-offs of the three days and

the two-day classes might fall into play and so for the sake of this because again November the the first term is ending we have been tracking daily attendance we've been getting after daily attendance I know the counselors up at the high school have been monitoring the buyback policy getting kids to be present for the 5 days in a row to buyback time and so that for us becomes the push if we have to stick

with class to follow the policy we will I just don't want more kids to fail certain classes or get the D because it's a class situation that I can't say specifically we have been as intentional about as we have been been about daily attendance every day again with the expectation that when you're in school you're going to all your classes and based on what I can see from the class

cut data it feels responsive to me that as kids were cutting class they were respon they were spoken to it was addressed and it looks like the patterns changed outside of what I would maybe say if you you're saying like three times there might be about 25 to 30 kids out of the 500 something that have had this like multiple class cut scenarios how do class figure into um the attendance in terms of you

know if I show up to school at this time it's considered an absence cuz maybe I show up at after launch or at 1:00 how do class how does class attendance figure and does it even or once you're kind of checked in in the morning you're in school that means you're in school for unless you physically leave so I could be in the bathroom during math but that doesn't necessarily affect not that

there's anything wrong with that I'm just asking well that's where class cut would come in because you'd be marked absent from the class because you're in the bathroom and then it goes to the office but it wouldn't be determining like that you can only miss 10% of attendance for graduation is what I'm trying to say daily chronic it's more daily that's what matters so then it makes sense to me that that policy

reflects daily attendance for the fact that you're telling me it's easier and I I certainly think we need to spend more time teach I don't want teachers or anybody like you're suggesting doing doing extra work that's unnecessary every teacher should obviously be taking attendance at every class that should be discussed with the principal and followed up with the parents um but I think it makes sense if this D4 policy

is supposed to be reflective of making sure we have proper attendance for graduation then it makes sense to me that it goes by daily attendance and if you think that makes sense and that would be um easier for it to be you know correct and efficient and well I I want to make it clear under no circumstances are we saying that we are not going to take oh of course yeah absolutely we all

we're saying is for the D4 purpose we want to collect daily attendance to count towards that but we still expect teachers that that's disturbing to me I'm going to check that out here check that out and I would I would assume 99% of the teachers are do it it's one of the first things you do when you teach we're going to make sure we're going to make sure and put the word out expect it

to happen absolutely if somebody's out half the day if they come in only one they get mocked ABS right correct got be there for half day that's I was wondering like if I come in at Kevin though and I only go to math class and then I spend the rest of the day walking around hanging out and then maybe I go to class at the end of the day I still get attendance for that whole day

correct but that's what yes okay daily attendance yes yes but you're going to have about four class CS you're going to have issues that you're going to have to have issues that you have to take care of absolutely but I'm talking about just whatever graduation requirements are I guess my mind is going back to that and really how chronic absenteeism which is part of accountability yeah yes so yes

I've seen them as two separate conversations it's we're having a class conversation and then we're having a D4 conversation and I think I've stated my my feelings about D4 I I have issues I feel like until we address some the systemic things related to getting kids to school I have a hard time with it but in terms of Class Cuts and attendance for specific classes I think that absolutely needs to be monitored at the

school level that makes sense to that needs to be factored in any of that when when this policy was created I've been here for a while so that's part of the reason why I was hesitant because I wasn't necessarily in favor of things and then I was talked into give us a chance this is the policy that at the high school at least we wanted to do this we've checked it we've done I've

sat here and listened to this over several years so part of the reason why I just don't say yeah it makes sense is because of that at that time but at that time we we we would say what happens when when is a a situation you know that happens and I believe that there was a um like a not a waiver but some sort of principal counselor comes in and says

wait a minute wait a minute Kyle didn't like he had other stuff going on let's sit down and talk about this separate from the how whoever monitors the notice so then we'd say well what's going on with Kyle this that whatever we would try to figure it out it wasn't just a blatant that's right that and I want to be clear in the policy it does read that it does read that but my concern is that

it doesn't always play out that way so even though it reads that way I've worked with kids where that hasn't happened where they've gotten a 64 in a class and there have been folks that have known that other things were going on and they haven't been advocated for so until I think we have those systems in place that's where my issue with making sure that we're we're making sure that those systems are in place to

Advocate and make sure that folks know that it's their certain circumstances that if a kid is just not blatantly coming to school and all these other things are in place to support them coming to school then okay fine then we Implement said D4 policy but if there are other things that we have not yet addressed and we have not sat down to say hey what's going on how can we

support then I don't think that we can do that and what I'm saying is I don't think that's been I know that has not been implemented consistently throughout the years I would agree with you 100% And I would also say that one thing that is very different this year then in years past is that we have never invested in the number of people that have their hands in attendance across

every school so with the new approach to attendance this year with having attendance monitors in every building I'm to this point I am still working with some schools that have struggled to get the full system up and running at the elementary level specifically so we are still working with those few schools that have needed the extra last push to get things up and running but for the

majority especially across our secondary schools I can speak to where this is really in effect our middle schools and the high school have I mean the high school itself just to speak to the high school has about 35 to 40 attendance monitors that are attending to attendance to learn the stories about kids it's not just a clerk or an office par that are just making random it is a personalized experience we are learning

the stories of what's getting in the way because the case loads are manageable um and then we've got Jess Stevens leading the charge we've got attendance officers that are also meeting with every single attendance off attendance monitor in the building so that not only is it the attendance monitor but they also have the attendance officer meeting with them every single week and when cases come up

with kids that are struggling to get in or the patterns are still I was just on the phone with the principal upstairs before I came down right patterns of attendance they're not changing and getting involved in the conversation with the families so I just feel that we are in a much better place than ever before to attend to your concerns that that you bring up uh Sarah and feel confident that the systems are in place

holding teachers accountable will always be a piece to the work but we also got to support teachers in that piece too we have a bunch of brand new teachers to this work they've got new things coming at them all day do I think they do I think they choose not to take intentionally no I think they get overwhelmed in the moment they get up they want to get their lesson going they

know they might have a group they got to get to and boom before you know what 50 minutes disappears and I didn't take attendance for that day do I think it is I'm just not taking attendance I absolutely don't think that at all um however when we're talking about a policy that's going to affect kids' grades we want to make sure we get it right the first time because I don't want parents angry because they weren't

communicated with in in the fallback of what that happens and again I just don't want our support staff who are the bulk of the folks leading this work across our schools to get caught up in a clerical Place navigating the class piece and then chasing the teacher who didn't post it it just feels to me like a lot of time that might not be the time we necessarily want for folks in on it

um I'd like to get data as well because this this isn't the new this is the same policy as last year like for the last year too what did it look like how many students uh received a D4 what happened because I'm still having a hard time with it in that I don't understand pmy says that if we kept the policy as is it's going to make it clearer for us to identify the kids that

are having an issue and then how we handle that issue is the it is the real how do we either figure out what's happening when this Rog says that there's kids students that come and we're not addressing the needs that whatever they're doing to me that's a problem administratively so the way I was reading this is that it would bubble those kids up that get a D4 to put them

on to make it easier rather than more difficult so now all of the kids that have three four absences are on the thing and then we sit around and talk about it with all of our support staff and we say yeah Maria's got this Amy had that I thought this policy was made for us to identify and then therefore support those kids well but for instance right so as another example if I am a

student that's struggling second period I had an argument with my mom first period I come in I navigate first period I'm having I need to go talk to my counselor so I go second period to talk to my counselor the students accounted for the class will put her in as an absence or him in as an absence for that class however we know where the student was they were getting their mental

health needs navigate whatever might be going on for that kid to miss class for the time this policy would force us to go back and double check and triple check that class absence right that's not that's a legitimate class absence that class absence for a student that's with the nurse or would say that's an excuse absence so why wouldn't we put that excuse in it wouldn't fall under

this policy well the teacher wouldn't know it was an excused absence it would be after you'd go in there and code it we'd have to go in there and recode it and all that jazz right so there's a lot of D there's a lot of parts to all pieces of it when it's related to class attendance and understanding and knowing where every single kid is for each individual class attendance piece

um related to I want to make sure that nothing gets missed across those those concerts and those conversations as well so there's a lot of intricate pieces I just feel that need to talk to one another that might not with automaticity in the moment of a grade for the grades for the kids so knowing how we are monitoring like I said the class attendance knowing the numbers of reasons that kids may or may

not be present the variables that just become another tracking piece I mean we can certainly you know you could argue both ways but at the end of the day I feel as though we have a handle on The Daily the class we will continue to work on with every student with every teacher um but knowing the immediacy with which we need to have information to get kids on buyback get kids connected to the buyback know when

you've been absent too many times buy back is no longer an option right I just want to make sure that those are the data points that are in front of us every single day and not just in front of one person but in front of a number of people that are doing the work up at the high school um and so we would have to really rethink like how we get after

the class attendance piece um as it relates to assigning the D4 right now we have a very good handle on it we've had a handle on it all term which was why we were bringing this forward a couple weeks back before the the midm marking period occurred um because we didn't want to get to the very end of the term so can I make a suggestion so if we make

a motion to refer this to the committee to change the wording to daily attendance and I understand I'm hearing concerns about the policy in general which I think could be taken up in policy subcommittee I think those are yeah I think it's two separate it's two separate things exactly bigger so I don't know who's on policy but I'm sure we can figure that out and work on that um I think the intention as I think

everybody here probably I don't know but I think obviously obviously the intention um of this of the D4 policy is to be proactive it's not to be punitive but we want to make sure that that's you know what's happening um so I think seeing the data Maybe in a policy subcommittee meeting so that those guys can kind of look into that because if it's not working then why are we doing

it right and if it is working then yes we absolutely should continue so I think looking at that would probably alleviate people um but I think as far as this Chang I think can we just motion to refer motion made to refer second any questions so I just want to make a comment that make comments and questions very comfortable with moving this piece and in addition to that and again my

comfortability means absolutely nothing um but I do think it's important that we have a very a much bigger conversation about what this looks like because I can appreciate that we have more hands on deck looking at attendance but this has been a policy that's been in place forever that's really never been implemented with any kind of fidelity like the way you just explained it is different is is how I would have

envisioned it right it would have caused these kids to kind of bubble up to needing intervention at that point but how it reads is very punitive you missed four days immediately it's a 64 now we're going to get these kids in a buyback but how are we going to get them invested it's a whole bigger conversation so I think having that conversation about what that looks like how is it working this year now that

we're actually trying to implement it with some kind of fidelity now that we've got all these people in place I think just having that discussion with um with all of the information that we have now with some data to back it up I think that it might look like oh you know what yeah this was this seemed like a good idea and yeah it's working but I got a better idea

this might work better right you might look at it all and say hey now I've got something this is kind of working as a good foundation but I've got something better to put in place now or it might be you know what this is isn't working the way that we envisioned it and let's scrap it so again I'm a big fan of let's see how it goes now that we actually

have people that are implementing it and then reconsider or maintain main or or maintain because I just want to say too right like I I was at the high school when we did not have an attendance policy where there was no stake in it for kids and I just want to remind everybody of how poor attendance was and again this goes back this this policy has been in play now for I mean prior to

PRI even before prior to co it was there when we were there when we were there it was there so this policy I'd have to guess is over easily 8 years old easily over8 years I mean I shouldn't say we I should say I'd like to see the data so I'm comfortable I'm I'm actually quite fine with the policy the way it is I'm a little bit different in the way maybe I

see it or approach it but if it comes back where we get this data and what some of my colleagues are saying is the is is the case and this is happening at a consistent level and we're hurting more kids and we're helping kids well that becomes a huge problem right so I would I think so far from what I've heard from teachers and principles it seems to be working but it would be nice

to see that information and I think something this could be the whoever is the had a policy have them have a subcommittee meeting get that information those three people can can we refer no we can't we want to do this the full on that I'm saying a side note we yes CH this part first I said on policy as well okay course that's probably why I've heard about this a

little more than some of the others so a couple of my concerns one is we what I've heard here is we have an existing policy since September that we haven't followed as administrators we have we've been following change the language moving forward we've been following the old language we want which is so then we should know how many kids have it before well the terms are but we will know once

the term's over we don't know yet cuz the term's not over and we also know I could also run aort we do know who the kids were that had four absences per class there's a report that Brian shared with us we do know so we can pull the number of kids who would have gotten who would have gotten a D4 as a result of class and how many classes would have

been affected versus the number of kids that are going to get a D4 as a result of daily in addition to that I believe there is also a way that we can view the number of principal Discretions that have been given off because or presented because if you have higher absences and you did not get a D4 then that's the principal discretion stepping in right so I guess I'm totally fine

with referring it I don't want it to go another policy like I want it to be fixed now and part of fixing it is giving us the information so before like is it being followed with Fidelity how many kids was it how many Discretions were it have we ever looked at the Discretions are the Discretions a joke are the discretion is legit whatever so looking at before we say let's just

scrap this I would rather get all of that back up for the full committee so now we sit there we say we did all of this we turned over everything we figured it out this is what would happen here and there whatever I'd feel more comfortable voting on it then if we get further information because it um like I said the other piece I think the full committee should get is the

copies of the minutes of any meeting for the last 10 years that says and we shouldn't have to go search for this that talks about the D4 or the D6 policy so I come at it from a uh experience I've been around longer than some members we need to provide for the other members the context of how did we get here so when I say sometimes I feel like

a broken record well I was here a little while I heard this before show it to us in the minutes of the meetings when Mr dearis came before us to say here's why I think we need this policy here's who my support staff was I'd also like to have a report what is this staff look like at the high school 10 years ago versus now because what I've done is sat here meeting after meeting and said

millions of dollars yep we're going to add more we're going to add more we're going to add more we want to see results right super principal looks across yep yep yep we've had this discussion how many times and there people are going to really be shocked when they see how much money is spent on administration at that high school now versus 10 no there's needs we went from four adjustment councils of three to 12

like there's needs for all of this stuff but I think context wise for all of us would help to say here's what we have and granted is more kids so I I just think all of that would help me give you a positive vote on whatever so that was the other question on my list was to have some comparative data so what did that look like not pre not 2020 I don't

want to look at any of those numbers but you know prior to this what did those attendance numbers look like prior to these things being put in place um that was on my list of questions so I would say if we refer this anybody has any further questions between now and the meeting for data or information that would help the committee email the superintendent so we can have that make sense yes so motion

been made and seconded roll call Mr yes Mr Perera yes Mr rri yes thank you 3.02 an update onal initiatives so we just wanted to take take an opportunity um to highlight some of the seal work that we've been leading in the district um I listed I shared with everybody a list of the bullets you know Claudia has been leading this work over the last few years as it relates um to curriculum and

and roll outs across schools just as a as a refresher for folks you know last year we invested in the leadership curriculum um and that has been rolled out across all of our secondary schools through advisory um and we are into our second year of roll out this year um I'm not sure if there's anything not only an advisory but part of that programming as well too that we purchased was um her

story voice to mentors empowering up standards to be able to um groups for kiddos that need that extra support as well to which was made possible through that leadership program so we' purchased other programms within not just an advisory but small groups too so that is up and running across our secondary schools when we look at our elementary um if we really want to be honest we don't have a tier one

Elementary curriculum um our elementary schools you kind of you know we we adopted Choose Love um that was rolled out with some Fidelity before coid and then since then it's kind of sprinkled off um folks have kind of fallen out of love with it no put intended um but really looking and feeling as though that our kids and our staff just need something something more um and really when we think about curriculum at the

elementary level is really thinking about like a bank and a variety of lessons that teachers can e and flow in and out of to meet the needs of the kids that they are working with over the scope of a school year um we will be running um some exploratory groups this year to take a look at positive action and second steps which are two curriculums that some of our schools

have used some schools have not um so we will be looking at those two in particular as we move forward into this year to hopefully make a recommendation for purchase coming into the end of the year um if not even sooner than that so more to come on that um as it relates toal screeners um and curriculum exploration we will be taking a large chunk of the November 7th professional

development day uh where the majority of oural support staff we've been working with four differental screeners and each of them come with a different bank of resources attached to them um and so looking at saber Satchel Panorama and Desa um we will be going through essentially an exploratory on November 7th um hoping that some schools will look to Pilot the work so that we can make an educated decision based on what

our folks have used have tried with our kids and have put into practice with our kids um and then to make sure that again the toolbx is deep enough and Broad enough so that teachers can use the scope of the lessons but then also have opportunities to reach into the curriculum toolbox as needed depending upon what they're navigating with their students um so that will and that's again to feed into and support our

support staff that are running small groups you know we're really trying to ensure that our kids are getting small group opportunities however as a district we have not invested in the materials that go into the small groups so many of our Sachs and adjust adjustment counselors seaons Behavior therapists and guidance counselors are pulling from their own tools and tool boxes and some of the resources that

we've been able to provide that were more free resources but we're looking to be all on the same page so we'll be coming back again with a recommendation and leverage looking to leverage some of our mental health Grant funds to help offset the cost for some of that curriculum moving into this year um any question about that part questionss so just a comment about the screeners so I was just thinking about

those afterwards so I know with the screeners were looking at the data that'll come out of that like what kids are hitting certain competencies just want to be really careful about only using that data to identify who needs what because a lot of kids will be able to answer those questions and it will look like kids have certain competency levels and then in reality they don't so

I just want to be careful about that so we I don't want to become over Reliant on that those screening tools and I know that our sacks are really good at that but just need to put that there it's not looking at where kids struggling it's where can we where can we do better at some of our lessons um is what we're looking to do with with a lot of that

data too so I'd love to see those screeners sort of inform just what we do for tier one right so if we've got a boatload of kids that are really struggling say in the area of self-awareness then we know that a lot of our tier one initiatives need to focus on on self-awareness the Lord knows they struggle in selfawareness especially at the elementary level right so that's that that was the only thing I

was thinking about as I was kind of looking over some of this stuff is just to be really careful about not looking at that data as the end all be all for how we single out kids to be participate in groups or things like that yeah and I and I would I agree and I would say you know we're also investing in edge of climber which becomes another way for us

to triangulate data um so that we're not just relying on any one single data point to be The Driver of all of our Focus that being said when we recognize kids that need skill development in a few areas how we can leverage this data to help us identify those kids oh yeah right and especially for us it's also about recognizing the kids that don't display outwardly what's going on right there's a many of our kids are

introverts and need support is those the quiet ones that we worry about right who are our kids that may not be outwardly responding um because those are the kids that come to everyone's attention first and so we want to make sure that all kids are identified across all of theal competencies so that we're supporting all kids um I say consistently I'm not worried about little Johnny whose

behaviors are off off you know they're off the his rocker right so we're kind of falling apart all over the place because there are all eyes on Little Johnny but there aren't eyes on Little Sally who's really quiet and may look like she's kind of put together but in reality this kid part MH yep and again keeping in mind like we're coming from a place we have never had this data in

this District right we have never been able to identify a screener districtwide we've never had a consistent tool that we could leverage across schools um so this will be a little bit of a learning curve for some of us there are other schools that have made their own screeners um with the exception of conditions for learning which we have but I would argue that's well data but that's not a trer right conditions for

learning is another piece of it which I would also argue like youth risk behavior survey is another dat of right consistently across the board right right so just when we're thinking about consistency across the board as it relates toal competencies that we need our kids to have to be able to successfully navigate school and Beyond um this will be one of our first go rounds as a district you know we've had

a range of different things and schools have used or created their own screeners to get at the competencies but this will be the first first approach that we can use for consistency across all of our schools we've reinvested in responsive classroom again yes we are beginning yet would would you say that that's being implemented with more Fidelity and would you say that that's being implemented at

all of our elementary schools or I think I would say that there are pockets of responsive classroom that are in place across all of our schools as we begin to retrain and train folks in responsive classroom the short answer is yes for the folks that have just recently received the training which it has been rough roughly about 200 staff across the district we've had five sessions fonsica

is currently in session and we had hosted four throughout the summer um and so in those classrooms principles have noted um that responsive classroom practices are coming alive morning meeting is a common expectation in all of our classrooms um but for some folks that's the only training of responsive classroom they've received um um I will tell you we are working to put together a district team of folks that are

actively utilizing and what we'll call Masters in responsive classroom so that we can put together a Fall River training of responsive classroom pulling out the most important components of it so that we can create our own train the trainer model in house um we do have some folks that have been trained in the one and the two we might be coming forward to get a few additional folks

trained up so that they can become the master trainers in the same way that we've created master trainers in ela master trainers on the math side of the house so that to your point uh Sarah that we can get to a place where we can have more control over training up more folks and being prepared for staff turnover so that we're not relying on responsive classroom to train all of our

new teachers as they come on board so we are trying to create you know an annual approach to this but train the trainer model is the way that we're going to try to go with our own experts in District because we also feel you know promoting from within and having folks that work with our kids they'll be able to take that training and really tailor it to what we've experienced here in the city

and it's a it's a comprehensive training right yeah 4- day training where we really have to work through Logistics of figuring out how like for fonsica we're releasing those people pushing coverage in there you can't do that systemwide so we have to work through some of those Logistics and how to get every school trained up so that um uh it's implemented consistently across the yeah

I'm not asking for justification as to why everyone's not I'm I'm truly just asking how many how many more folks are left to be trained in responsive classroom and then how do we make sure that folks coming through the door are trained when they come through the door so you know I I told many people and I will say it publicly that my daughter's favorite part of school is morning me

her absolute favorite part she gets so excited she has it in her head what she wants to talk about and it is genuinely her favorite part of the day so culture changing morning meeting is culture Chang 100% And folks have done a nice job at her school about it they've consistently done that um but it is genuinely her favorite part of the day and for a second grader that's important

any questions I just have two requests uh one would be for Miss Costa do one pager for the committee on the advisory I you mentioned it in passing data how many how it's working whatever because we had had a full meeting on that last year you'll just advise us on what's happening with advisory and then um another piece is the substance prevention use we always keep saying this and it builds in within the health

but also here so I think that's a piece that we need to put on the the front burner as far as those programs that were I would say that's probably even more important than the things we just talked about as important as those are I think the subance part is is important so if we get a one page to the committee that would be great and is this on the agenda to just information

no just information just information other questions move on to 303 504 policy procedures across the district is this a discussion and just a conversation right it's not on the anything in writing um so I had so I had shared with you this um principal meeting so one of um one of my initial steps in in leading the work was really to take a look at the inconsistency in expectations as it

relates to who owns what um 504 plans bullying coordinators buyback Credit Recovery um if we think about where we've been historically prior you know we can kind of work down the lane right when we look at um the 504 plan work that has been historically very inconsistent across the school department um in elementary where there are no guidance counselors it has always been between Vice

principles Andor adjustment counselors owning the work um when we get to the secondary level it was very inconsistent between guidance counselors adjustment counselors and even in some cases Vice principles being involved in 504 plans when you'll notice um in the PowerPoint that I shared um the data specifically as it relates to the types of 504s in Fall River um anxiety ADHD mental health

physical or medical and then learning dis disabled those are the categories with which we find all of the majority of if not all of our 504 plans and so knowing that the training that our adjustment council is come into the work with it felt in and continues to feel as though and that that lives in the world of the adjustment counselors and their expertise and training when we look at

and also putting work in Lanes so everybody can be held accountable another part of this was the bullying coordinators where historically our adjustment counselors in the district when we read the law around bullying and knowing what a bullying investigation takes making phone calls to families and to letting families know your child is being investigated bullying and all of the subsequent details that come with it

feels and has felt much more Vice principle like when you read the law it speaks to the principles design which after speaking with principles in July that really lives in the vice principal world not with adjustment counselors who might because again keeping in mind a bullying investigation might yield consequences and discipline and that should not be coming from an adjustment counselor that is vice principal work

right when we think about even where we have grown with our guid guidance counselors guidance counselors at the secondary levels are responsible for the attendance buyback so they track the attendance buyback to the D policy in addition to that since coid we have increased our credit recovery programming so we no longer wait until halfway through the year and we no longer wait until the end of a school

year to help kids recover their grades so that has put much more work as it relates to tracking monitoring and working with kids for them to grade recover on a term by term basis so when we look K to 12 where our resources are our sacks are now owning the 504 work and we've leveraged this language around ownership and support because none of these things are happening in isolation so the adjustment councilors

initiate the 504 work they review the plans and they ensure that the plans get updated through our student information system we have shifted The Bullying Co coordinators wait what did you you just said the guidance counselors Sachs adjustment counsel is did I did I hear that I think she said saxs oh I'm sorry I thought I heard guidance counselors no so wait a second so the adjustment

counselors are leading the work are owning the work as it relates to writing 504s monitoring 504s and communicating out making sure that they are live in X to our student information system the vice principles are now the bullying coordinators and they are taking the lead of when a bullying investigation is needed to be started they own the initiation of that work and then because

we know we need to we need to respond to a bullying investigation immediately it really becomes the full team that's wrapped around that student to get to the bottom of what is going on so investigations are shared across all the support staff connected to that student because we need to get an outcome in a timely manner however the vice principles are responsible for initiating the paperwork and navigating

with families and setting up the team to come to a resolution as quickly as possible and guidance counselors are owning the buyback working with kids working with attendance monitors to make sure that they know who is in buyback when the first day is when the fifth day is and then documenting as necessary in addition to monitoring the credit recovery so there was a little bit of let's just say shock value in August

when we came together at the admin Institute because this is where we announced these role shifts um we have since been in ongoing communication and as a matter of fact we just met Friday with the fra and had a very positive meeting uh where they shared some questions as it relates to ownership versus support um and we actually had a really awesome meeting to be honest with you um and so we will be sharing out the

clarity of all of these roles because there was some great questions that came up from the folks boots on the ground that helped uh me and my team really just put p into paper as it relates to clarifying some of the ownership versus support language um and then working with principles to see it through so we so that really is kind of where things are so really just trying to clean up

the expectations across duties from K to 12 um and making sure that folks in the same job titles are doing consistent work as it relates to these three buckets um so as much as it's a 504 presentation I just felt it was important that the the committee understand the other parts of the work that were adjusted um when we made some of these changes of ownership in the work all with which lives in the lanes

of all folks involved sacks Vice principles and guidance counselors question M so we've had this conversation before and it's really not just about 504s it's about duties in general because one of the things that's in here some of the language says because of the investments in oural staff right the Investments inal staff really comes from the Acuity levels of our kids so I want to be careful about not

taking the extra the extra Staffing that we've put in place and make the assumption that because we have extra staff that means they can have extra duties no we can clarify roles better because of EXT we can clarify roles give them more no and I'm not I'm not saying that you can't do that I want to be extra extra careful about that because do have the highest Acuity level psychiatric Acuity level in the entire

Southeast region and so if saxs can't get in front of our kids I worry what that looks like and we've had this discussion before what that looks like in terms of mental health right so we heard from kids on Thursday at The Forum and the kids were talking about how they were really struggling mental healthwise right and I want to make sure and I'm not suggesting that no one's doing that

so I I don't want this heard as Sarah is saying that our sacks are not in front of kids I want to continuously make sure that we're checking in with people to ensure that they are getting in front of kids that they have the time to do that that they're not missing those quieter kids who maybe are seeking out the adjustment counselor but maybe the adjustment counselor was busy doing some

other Duty that maybe they're not used to doing or they haven't had time for before and they haven't had time to check in with this kid because that's always going to be my priority are the sacks having time to get in front of our kids kid we don't have parity in terms ofal Liaisons in every school so in some schools there are a onetoone match and in other Schools they're not and so some

Schools they're able to use those really well to triage and other schools not so much so until those things are sort of I just want to point out every principal has had the opportunity to have that parody we have made it very clear we have asked and some PR principles have opted not to because they don't feel that that's where where their need is in in order to so like

we that was that was a huge investment it was a very good investment it's yeah I agree there's there's an incredible level of need but um fair is not equal you know that right so because every school's different no no we're not seeing that as that but I just want people are out there listening right I I want people to to know that yes it's not a a perfect match for every single

school so uh the middle school has four sacks so the middle school has four seaons that might be true but you might have an elementary school that has two Sachs and they may have opted for Ness alazon and they might like aans they have Ness alazon they have a behavior therapist that was all already there and they opted to stay so I just want to make sure that principles and the staff are are Staffing their buildings

according to the needs of their buildings and according to what because we the the committee has been very good about we haven't said no to people we haven't said no to people and also when I just to clarify too the statement around we made the investment so where that where the behind the scenes thought around that also came is because we have more adjustment counselors that are

skilled in this background it's going to reduce the case load because of the numbers that we have right when we did not have as many adjustment counselors to your point if we did increase 504 plans that would take people off the floor however because the adjustment counselors as compared to guidance counselors are in larger number when and because adjustment councils at the elementary were already kneee in this

work it was a way to make sure kada 12 the adjustment counselors owned the work and when we looked at the numbers based on the number the number of counselors to the number of plans it was not an inordinate amount and if and when it was a lopsided amount principles as always have the the discretion to set the systems within their building so if one adjustment Council happened to have 30

because of the case load that they had as an example the principal has the discretion to shift that case load so that nobody is inundated with all of those plans did we ever get numbers about how many kids had I feel like you as that way back for how many had services in there IEPs Services a long time yeah let's see a long time ago we gave we can certainly dig that up

again conveniently when it's I shouldn't say conveniently but yeah conveniently so when the argument comes in to say we're conveniently going to use this data to say I have X amount of things in my schedule I need an extra sack we have meetings where that happens which is why I have a problem with a principal or superintendent or whoever coming to us and say well the principal didn't ask for it well I've

been in meetings in public where I've asked all of the principles straight out the document that I had everybody create that says how many sacks there are does this get shared in a meeting with all the principles and the answer was no not from you from prior superintendent and I was like why not because everybody should say at a basic level we need a sack but we also need people to be able

to do the triage work and at that point it shouldn't be their decision because what happens when you do it that way it's about a person so I don't want to say I like Kyle he works for me for 10 years it's about the kids so service so like he might do something that's beneficial I love the guy I want him in my building so I have to make a value

judgment between Kyle or Shel by Shell's more suited for the SC so you guys need to step in to be able to say in my opinion at a minimum we need to follow we've had those uh one school comes and says I have a vice principal for each grade so I need the same as her because she's got three and I got three like so and we listen so it doesn't really fly as well

when we say the principles didn't ask for it principles don't come and ask for everything that they truly need sometimes and I've had this happen where I've asked people right in a public meeting and they I didn't you know if I knew we were going to get that I would have asked one of those twoo you listening and fair is not always take your notes and I agree that fair is not

always equal so just because school a has a one: one ratio of Sachs and seazons doesn't mean that school b means that because school B may have a behavior therapist that they've had in there for a long time so they may not need another but the point is they they also have another person that's helping to triage some of those issues right so I would argue thatal has not until the last couple of

years has not been a priority in this district and so some of our folks really aren't on board with making sure that we're addressing theal needs of our community and let's face ital's kind of become a dirty word out in the community not so much ours but nationally right it's become this Hot Topic and our kids need that support and so if we're going to provide that support we've got to be

able to do it and that part of that means that making sure that s have time to get in front of our kids again not saying that they can't but it's ensuring that all of these systems are in place to make sure that they can the other question I have is what support do we have for Sachs when they're writing medical F Force I have a kid with here the nurse would be at the

so right and so I want to be clear too right the Sachs are not writing these plans in isolation they build a team so if it's a medical 54 the nurse gets looped in if related providers right any related providers could also be out of those meetings if it's NE if it makes sense that the guidance counselor is looped in guidance counselors are looped into the meeting they just don't own the

work right so keeping in mind we're not saying at all that there's anybody left out of the work but the difference between owning the work and seeing the work through um that was how this all came to be to put the work in people's Lanes so that there was consistency within the job titles that we have K to 12 because as we know particularly the guidance counselors they don't don't exist in

elementary and there was a lot of overlapping with guidance counselors and their job duties have changed since we have gone to a new approach to Credit Recovery more specifically because that alone is just much more time consuming for the guidance counselors because we are doing it on a term-to-term basis and not just end of year or in April before we finish a school year just to try to

save kids before the end um we really revamped that um to hold kids accountable term to term so we don't find as many kids um in the negative so just on the the medical component the learning disability component and and to an extent the ADHD executive functioning piece right so shelle's got experience as a school nurse so shell comes to a meeting and where I'm the school adjustment

counselor shelle's the school nurse we're sitting at a meeting we've got the family there ideally because sometimes these meetings happen without the family present because a 504 is run differently than an IEP the has to be there they have to be there for for for the initial meeting but typically they will get updated sometimes without the parent present that happens sometimes so we're

sitting down we're going over these accommodations right and we're writing them out and then Shelley says okay yep they need this accommodation this accommodation this accommodation Shel leaves and I go to write it and I'm confused right which accommodations do I put in I've heard people say before it's just a checkbox it shouldn't be that difficult but if I'm the social worker and I have no experience in those

medical things there's a possibility putting some stuff on that 504 plan that make absolutely zero sense so I want to make sure again that sacks have the support that they need not saying they shouldn't do it but they have the support that they need that is built in that the school nurse who's helping to write that that the special ed teacher who maybe they need to consult with in

order to write a plan for a student with some learning disabilities or you know a plan for executive functioning they have the support they need to be able to do that because a staff might not have that skill set they wouldn't be and I I would say from my experience and they wouldn't be writing that in isolation it's a team approach and uh I would say nine out of 10 times when a child doesn't qualify

for special ed services that that team people from that team will support on creating that 504 they're at the table too so it's not everybody everybody has an opportunity to to support writing a plan that that supports that child as well as Drew Woodward who leads the as the dor of counseling has led training has already met with our saxs two times this year to offer up training Claudia is also

available to help support um building based teams between Vice principles again guidance counselors and nursing staff so we certainly have an insulated group to help support the bodies are there um and regular you know followup and attention to the work is always our top deal um and I I do believe folks know that I have not received any reports from folks or even as a principal did I ever feel that I didn't

have the resources to be able to pull a team together to be able to write a plan that meets the needs of kids um and to the superintendance point often times some of these come the ones particularly that you described come as a result of a student not qualifying the mental health ones are a little bit different that's within their wheelhouse you know that feels different but the other ones feel

you know if I'm the school as a social worker I'm looking at the medical ones going I don't know what to put in there for accommodations for a kid with hearing l we wouldn't let the sack do that without the extra and that's what I'm asking the right people poliy a protocol could be physical and mental so I service many of these myself at school and I'm the principal and I do the 504

so many larger numbers than what we have here but if she's the nurse we'll have a meeting we have meet with a parent I sometimes forget what they wrote but but I'll do a draft send the draft to the nurse to say does this look what like what we all talked about so I get a second pair of Eyes under that category before I actually implement it and send

it home for the P for Signature so I think a policy that says because you have it divided out like this at a minimum the one that says physical medical we should have something that says the nurse sign off so that tells them it informs them that the nurse needs to check it before it goes to the well I would argue that there probably should be a second sign off on all of

them at that point because if you're looking at if you're talking about a team approach then there should be at least two people on that team School base ha I'm going to be the one signing the principal of so I think they'd be doing the work is what I'm hearing and the principal of ice probably the house vice principal person sign but I would say have at least a sign off of the that

whether it's on the document or just in informally with an email there so and so this is what we came up with at the meeting please let me know if there was anything that I missed she writes back an email and says Nope solid then I I feel more comfortable as a principal sending that to the parent um I do the same thing with a teacher to give them a

chance again did I take the notes right did I make sure um but I think the maybe in your procedural manual or something that itic it's the principal signing the sacks entering it but the principal signs it and the medical one I think is a good point to at least have one check and the medical one many times is accompanied by doctor's not recommendation doctor's recommendation sometime and there's ranges right

because you can have a medical four for student who broke their arm and is going to need assistance for you know a chunk of time or whatever and then you have some uh other medical conditions but a lot of times the medical um ones are also accompanied by doctors not with a recommendation for a 504 right so again not arguing that they're doing this work my argument is that they have the

supports they need to do this work well efficiently and that they're doing it right because as a social worker I would have no idea idea how to make sure this is and I I would want a procedure to say all right so I wrote this medical 504 it's for this kid with X how does this who do I now give this to to make sure that I did the right thing here because

I would have no clue you want to we in sorry my back to that's okay um any medical fire for not be happen without a nurse or invited as well either a lot of times when they're writing the 504 is they're writing right into the document at that time as well sometimes they're even having a final paper in front of them before they even leave where everyone gets to look at it

as well too so I don't know I'd be shocked if any medical 504 is ever happening without a nurse being present or weighing in on it at any point and I'm not saying that they wouldn't be I'm just again turning around and advocating that if they're taking this piece on this is a new piece for them and I'm just advocating that they have the supports they need to to make sure that

they can do this piece well so and efficiently so they can just get in front of kids and I I would say that it's not new to them it's new that they are the owner of it but they've been they've been part of um writing FAL Force we will put a a standard operating procedure with all the the with the process who should be at the table all of that we'll put one

together any questions and I think that might already exist in place for any medical 504 that a nurse be present on it that's based on the training that we put together so I think pulling off of the training to create an so would would be because we do have a pretty extensive training I mean I've never been I've never worked as a school nurse where 504 went past me that as a nurse I wasn't

the one essentially mostly writing it depending on what it was EXA but mostly writing the Bible for but a shift and procedure that's where I go okay let's make sure that these things are yes but the nurse was just to be clear though the nurse never was the one writing they would always be the one whether it was matter who was initiating the work right they were a participant in the group in

the in the team they were not the owner of the work ever in this District it's always been either the sack or the guidance counselor in most cases and in some a vice principal at the elementary level more specifically um based on the homework I did and feedback that I got in the summer going into this shift I've been in other districts though sh where the nurse was responsible for no I was

this one I wasn't responsible it always had to be signed off the two schools I worked at the principal had to sign it off but I essentially did the writing because if we're talking about a kid with diabetes what is I mean unless well you actually would be able to do that bad example but you know what I mean um so yeah obviously in that Pro but never

it was I never owned that no but you did the right like you essenti right because you're right I mean if your if your education is here you're not what I'm not responsible for that I NOA and I I don't want to be not it's not my thing zero sense could be harmful right I just have a few questions so a school adjustment council is still doing lunch duty I would say uh in some places yes

absolutely so I'd like to get a full report on that because that's been a ongoing Battle of mine still doing lunch duty a lunch duty and it just with the money that we've spent on other support staff and different types of things and it it defies logic that they're still doing that consistently or I would I wouldn't say it defies logic because it's a staffing issue right so if you're

um depending on the school if you're short you're short every it's all hands on deck we we're all going to do it I would say it does defy logic in that if we didn't have any more money fine I would say it's the bodies regardless so over the last four years we've spent over50 million in an operating budget we've added hundreds of staff so if the premise four years ago was we don't

don't want our school adjustment council is doing lunch duty separate from an emergency which is not the case I'm sure that they're doing it on a regular basis at certain schools if we spent 50 million and we still have that it's a problem that's what I'm getting at so I think it needs to come from Administration that says no we're not doing it don't put them in there don't assign them to a lunch duty you have

other support staff that we've added and if you need more support staff then come to the committee and say this is what we need in order to do the counseling this is what we have I just think it's yeah I mean I and I I agree with you in that uh support staff it's getting the support staff having it's a struggle getting people to you know we have to hire support staff

to do that work everybody wants you know we hired AIS on and then you're going to say they don't belong doing lunch duties we have pars that belong in classrooms if we're going to pull them out to do lunch duty you're going to leave those classrooms short so unless we're going to say in every single building we're going to hire people that are solely dedicated to do lunch duty and they're

going to go from building I don't know but it we've tried that too hire people for a block of time well but I think also I think also too right I think there's a blend of it all because I can promise you this as a principal I learned the most about my kids in lunch duty when I could be present and flow among my kids and sit at the table with

my kids and observe the peer relations among my kids you get a lot of skinny at lunch duty right and so I think it's really important that we go and ask principles how and just so you know one some of the work that Claudia and I are doing right now is really trying to get a scope of what are the daily schedules like for our support staff to exactly get at what you're describing right I

want to be able to report out to the committee how manyal small groups are we running how many students are receiving grid C services on their IEPs how much time is being chunked out by other duties from our sacks um same thing with guidance council is what does the scope of their day in year look like um and so we're look I'm I'm looking to collect that data and put it together obviously

knowing that you know our support staff as much as they've got schedules the minute anything goes wrong for kids it it throws off their schedule but I think there is a way that we can get a handle on how much time um is being spent in some of these duties so again I'm not saying it's all bad I would nor if it's a large chunk of time I would differentiate between being present at

lunch duty being present at lunch is one thing and doing lunch duty is a totally separate thing so I think what we do here is we assign them to lunch duty like they responsible to manage the room so if I'm a present and I'm a counselor or principal whoever I'm present but I'm not on duty and I see these two having a little issue whatever I can sit in them between them have a conversation and I

don't have to be watching everybody else what I think we we do here is we say you're on duty so now I'm supposed to be watching everything and you can't do both but nobody is in isolation on duty I think Mo Mo in most cases in our Secondary School specifically there are more than one person who is on lunch Duty so it does give the flexibility for folks to be able to man Meander within

the groups of kids so I don't disagree at all the data will show us what it says in each each building how many people have the other thing is the um we talked about the high school with the school adjustment being more guidance counselor than School adjustment counselors and I think we need to get the data on that as well the the number of guidance counselors versus the number when you're

looking at some of the thing it's always been the case that there's double the amount of guidance if you go into if you go into the handout that I shared with you and I can certainly reshare it but this link right here which I can share it with you guys it it spells it out at the secondary level uh actually as a matter of fact there on average there are six administrators umal Staffing increases

per school because I had it all tracked out so I can share that link with you guys I'm only saying so when we I think where we've gone in this District was we used to have double the amount of guidance councils as um adjustment counselors and over the years we've added a few guidance counselors and we've added four times as many adjustment counselors and I think that's historical for the committee to get to

understand that it's no longer the case where we had this so in the old days if I'm if I is 10 guidance counselors and only three sacks those guidance counselors had to take a lot of sack duties because there's no way that three people could run 2400 shits correct that was the old days now we've shifted to be equal but I'm not so sure that we haven't and I don't know this that's

what you guys to figure out whether we've now shifted to say what are the guidance council is going to do an addition because now that there's 12 sacks and they were doing you know sack work putting out fires what are they doing now different and I asked questions at one of the last meeting we had a lady does uh seniors you know whatever we talked about I said what do the senior guidance councilors do I

don't know valid questions so as we're saying is equal amount of school adjustment counselors to guidance counselors that's all so there is there isn't it's not not not close notal I'll I'll sh you the data that's what that's what drove just so you know that's exactly what drove the whole putting things in lanes because so much was living on the world of guidance the college and nothing for

nothing our College and Career access is not where it needs to be either at the high school so when we think about exploratory and getting kids connected to jobs and careers and internships yes we're growing early college but how about everybody in between right so I would argue there is a ton of work that we still need to do as it relates to getting kids connected to all sorts of

post-secondary experiences through our guidance counselors and in networking um so yes we can certainly share with you the numbers how many sacks are at to high school we can do high school how many 11 and how many guidance counselors I don't know the number of guidance 12 I believe 12 are you counting 12 with the with Drew or no just no was always we had we always had eight then we had nine

then we had one specifically for the uh cbte then we had one for the El then we have a sack for the El so right now we at the way I'm looking at it budgetarily like it's 11 and 12 13 and 11 it's it's we'll pull by by school the secondary schools you get what I'm saying so the other piece that I would request is a p School seal

staff anal so when you when you look the talking about so when we had that chot of all the people we had one also that the pror superintendent did not want to give to people that said allal type of individuals so if you got a sack but I don't I have a student support coordinator they would be linked into the same type of number and when you look at that data and add those people

up you're going to have a less than 100 per one case Lo at the high school at least and I know there's needs up there when you add up that all of those folks it's probably close to 75 to one of uh so you get the idea whole whole so I do think getting more data is never a a bad thing for us so um update only so we don't need to discuss anymore anything

further new business anybody thank you all for coming we need a motion to agend motion to second roll call M yes M perara yes M Rogers yes motion I the meeting is to