11.17.2022 Historical Commission

awesome great um good evening everyone and thank you for joining us for our virtual hearing for the Fall River historical commission um it is Thursday November 17th it is 602 pm um pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are

being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible may I get a roll call please Richard Mancini present through media Connie sole present blue Sublime present oh there's Joyce uh Jason Bouchard and Iraqi present yeah all set okay dresser here all right um we do have uh two open slots I received a letter of resignation from Kristen Cantera

Oliveira I just received that yesterday and she writes dear chairman Bouchard naraki it is with a heavy heart that I am giving you my resignation from the Fall River historical commission affected today unfortunately due to time constraints I am no longer able to commit the time necessary to the commission I have enjoyed my last eight years on the commission and I am looking forward to seeing all of the good things

that you will continue to do in the future for the betterment of our city I think every one of you for the opportunity to have served with you and forgiving and forgiving of your time and talents as well to carry out the goal of preserving the historic structures and locations in our city I will still be here supporting all of you from the sidelines and will continue to help in

any way that I can I wish you all the best sincerely Kristen quintera Oliveira so we do have two open um seats on the commission uh Kristen was also our um appointee for the community preservation commission um so I will once I have this submitted to uh city clerk I will reach out to the community preservation committee um regarding that so luckily at our next meeting we will have to appoint somebody to

um be the historical commission a point t for that for the CPC all right um next up item 3A uh for the minutes for October 18th I have not actually completed those um but I will have those ready at the next hearing do we have any citizen input nope okay regarding um our uh agenda I'd like to take some uh I'd like to take say 5B um and bring it up to the top okay and also

um 8A and also um 7B okay we'll change that around and bring it to the top so that our guests don't have to wait too long all right um is that um are you making a motion to move those items I'll suck in that motion all right um so I have a motion and a second to move um the following items uh five b uh regarding 289 Pleasant Street 7B regarding

um I'm sorry eight a the local historic districts uh with Jen Doherty uh from the mass historical commission and 7B um historical commission candidate Tanya Demello uh into those into that order um yeah so I have a mentioned in a second all in favor all right um so we're gonna move 5B 289 Pleasant Street and that would be Shannon uh Corey thank you very much for joining us tonight no problem

so now what are the steps do I um so this is regarding um the chimney that's on Boiler House number two um for the Union Mill yeah and actually that Boiler House Is Not in existence that's been um okay that was demolished years ago so it's just a freestanding brick stack at this point okay um we did have an Architects report done which I had forwarded to previously um we did that after noticing that some

of the vertical cracks in the stack are actually expanding and the bottom is starting to bow out slightly um because it is directly adjacent to the main pedestrian walkway for the employees to get in and out of the building uh we felt like it's probably better to remove it before it falls and you know we end up with all kinds of issues um it was the opinion of the architect

and of his report that it should be removed um because even though it's thick I guess there's a bunch of soot inside that's been wet from precipitation and gotten moist so with the mortar is popping out and the bricks are cracking okay um so we are seeking to be able to go for a building permit uh demo permit to get this knocked down and we're looking for your permission to do that so it

would be the six month demolition DeLay So you're looking for permission to um but to six months delay is that okay yes please um okay um and I did see I pulled up the um the Formby for the masses Mass historical commission's uh inventory uh and it looks like that chimney was also it was originally approximately say 150 feet tall and at one point it had actually been shortened uh uh to about

100 or maybe I think it's currently I forgot what I think it's about somewhere between 80 and 90 feet now yes it was short right so I had been shortened but it's not connected to anything it's not serving no whatsoever no it's completely freestanding um are there any questions concerns from the board regarding this yeah I uh I I got a question uh Shannon hi I'm Rick uh this was an architectural firm and not

knocking that but normally you've got a structural engineering firm or someone well versed in in Smoke Stacks and I was wondering why you chose to get an architectural firm to do Structural Engineering work um I actually had this architect do it he works with a lot of Engineers um but he has done a lot of work on our buildings and our complex um he's very familiar with Millwork with Stacks it's really his wheelhouse

um and after speaking to Glenn Hathaway he had suggested I get a report as quickly as possible um so to turn it around quick I went with this firm that I knew and I knew knew what they were doing and knew the information rather than trying to track down an engineer that I'd be cold calling and it would take months mm-hmm okay well yeah all right well I personally I I would

like to do would you have any intentions if that that's a rather expensive Endeavor to remove that chimney particularly in that location because of the the buildings and and uh yes that are in that vicinity so if it could be uh repaired at a lesser cost is that something that you're interested in doing I actually looked at prices on doing both and to repair it it was going to be more than twice as much

because the entire thing needed to completely be repointed um they thought that maybe some of the bricks that were cracked and were going to need to be replaced um and they weren't sure if it was going to even be able to be done um the fear that I had and that my architect had was as we're trying to repair this thing the bottom was going to blow out because that's where all the damage is

um the top section actually where it was previously shortened is actually in decent shape yeah but you've not had a structural engineer look at it so no this advice from from the architectural firm who did the report okay all right well okay well those are my questions I I would uh I would certainly uh rely on a good structural engineer first in in Stacks uh to to make a determination Architects are great but

they're in designing buildings not in structural uh integrities so okay thank you understood yeah at some point um the opening to the stack has been bricked in and enclosed which is where you would clean the ash out um when was that done uh it was done prior to me being at the property and I've been there for 25 years uh so I don't know when it was done I imagine when the boiler room that

was attached to that was demolished I imagine that that was done at that time the inventory form for the um for the property I believe that was done I want to say 1980 either late 70s or 1980 81 somewhere around there that's about the time that we had the a lot of like across the city there's a Citywide survey that was done um so somewhere in between that and 25 years was when the boiler house number

two came down um is there are there any plans for the site at all or no actually we're just gonna take it down to level and flatten it out it'll just be an open area Okay um are there any other are there any other smoke stacks on the on the property that are of that are of similar conditions or is this just the only one that's of like you know urgency this is the only one on

this property okay there are I mean if you're looking at the whole Mill complex because they are owned differently there are other stacks on the complex those however are in much better condition yeah okay all right because that's part of the this is part of the um Union Mills and then across the way is the Durfee Mill which is okay yeah it's a larger complex okay um all right any other questions at all

regarding this and I kind of just point something out real quick um so looking at mattress it looks like there is a preservation restriction on that property um so to do any work on that property I'm not sure who the holder is I'm not on our Network right now so I'm not sure if it's us or another organization um but you would need approval of like I'm assuming you would need approval of

whatever that organization is under the preservation restriction okay thank you Jen we're trying that's one thing that we have for um in the process of trying to get a list of all structures in the city that have preservation restrictions we know a handful of of buildings downtown have those when it comes to the Mills um because everything's been literally every structure on the properties are inventoried it's it's

not the easiest process right now to get from uh registry Deeds at least function and macros where you can search for preservation restrictions so you can put in Fall River preservation restriction and it'll pull everything up um it doesn't say who the holder is in macris but if you ask me I can let you know who it is because we have it on our back end to the whole thing is

okay and I can probably I might be able to because it's a restriction on the deed I can probably um with a platin law I can go through the registry and figure out who that is owned by yep okay um all right so in that case um Shannon we're gonna need a little time to uh to figure out who the what the restrictions are on that um and who the holder is um

I know the urgency because the the smokestack is structurally compromised but we do need to at least do our due diligence with with that we I was completely unaware that we that there was a restriction on that property okay so I basically have to wait until you guys get back to me or my concern is this stack is literally feet from two buildings it's right over an entryway I've kind of been biting my

nails since August to get on this agenda the building department kind of bounced me around I'm just you know what I mean I feel like I've been waiting and waiting and waiting right I would make a recommendation that Shannon that you in order for for you to feel more comfortable and and you're bored and all parties involved that you get a structural engineer to that that specializes in this

um and uh have a survey done um you know that then you could have more reliable data and and maybe maybe they might come up with a solution that might put you at ease okay I can definitely look into doing that and see how long it takes to get that report done I like I said I'm just nervous that someone's gonna get hurt we have had we have had here in the city uh

two similar situations where the buildings oh the stocks were condemned they were going to fall and then we had engineering studies done uh the first one was talking about 220 mile an hour winds would maybe upset the stock and that it was very very stable yet it had been condemned on a windy day we have bricks falling yeah well I would I would just recommend that you that you that you should do

that but that's entirely up to you but that's entirely up to you I will bring that up definitely with the board and we can um once we have all of our um all the information regarding the restrictions on it um in the past we've been able to do emergency hearings as well um so you know we depending on the flexibility of the board and also what the availability is for the meeting

slots we can certainly arrange something yep so in the 20 plus years that you've been there has there been any maintenance done to the stock to prevent um there was some repointing done but it's not holding because the bricks are just crumbling um so even though the middle part of the stack was all repointed probably about 15 or so years ago it's just not lasting all right um I don't know what's wrong but it could be

aloud in some other situations where it's the laminate brick on the outside that was actually falling and not because they are it is like a very thick structure I don't know how yeah we did have core testing done um and it is very very thick yeah okay all right so we'll table this and so we yes it'll be uh let's take and um Shannon I'll be in contact with you once I have more information

um uh in the meantime um you know if there's a way to get a structural engineer to look at that um I'll hit the phone book in the morning yeah um the architect that you dealt with too may have may have uh um you know Engineers they should have engineers at least no I'm sure I'll find someone yeah okay okay all right thank you so much thank you very much I appreciate it yes thank you

um all right so now the next item that was put out of order um that was 8A uh local historic districts we have Jennifer Doherty a local government program coordinator with a master historical Commission Jen thank you very much for joining us yep of course um so we're trying to we have uh one local historic district and that's the highlands local historic district with a 47 houses

um or structures in in the district and we are actively looking to expand um whether we expand that District we create additional districts um so um if if you have a like an overview of what what the process is like and that'll be um so I I will note so on November 30th on November 30th I do have a establishing local historic districts Workshop um you can sign up for it on mhc's

website if you can't attend live over Zoom you can sign up for to receive the recording afterwards so you can watch it either way so I'm not going to go through that whole presentation right now obviously if you want to see that you come there but I will share the screen that kind of has all the steps in it and just sort of very briefly go through these so can everyone see that yes um so

establishing a local historic district it's the same process whether you are establishing a new District or expanding an existing District you would go through the same process and in Fall River because you all already exist as the existing historic district commission you will take the lead you don't have to set up a separate study committee if you don't want to you can choose to set up a set for separate

study committee but otherwise you can act as a study committee for the new District or for the expansion um so to begin with I always tell folks do a lot of planning think about what you're going to do um you know look to a master plan or a preservation plan if you have one that has recommendations about potential local historic districts those are always very helpful to kind of give you

some support some sort of you know legal background all those kinds of things to say you know this is why we're looking to make this a local historic district and then of course inventory forms inventory forms are helpful throughout the process and then once the district is established you know during the process they can give you information about the district help you do Outreach

to property owners and then once the district is established it's a good base of information for making decisions about the properties that you kind of know what's significant about them what the important pieces of property are so it's not required that you have new inventory forms for anything that you're looking to do for a local historic district but we do certainly recommend it that you at least have you know a

good base of information you know within the past 10 or 20 years or so if if it's been surveyed within there that's fine but just really making sure you have some good information available about the district the building's history um so establishing the process then kind of is to establish a district again you can act as a study committee I do recommend that existing hdc's sort of

take a formal vote to kind of formally start the process um you know it's not required but it does kind of say hey we're looking at this area as a potential local historic district so then you get to work um you just kind of think about think through the process of a local historic district looking at the boundaries of the district looking at what you might review in terms of the bylaw there's

different exemptions in Mass general laws chapter 40c that communities can adopt so if you would want to adopt some different exemptions from your existing District that would be something to think about um thinking about design guidelines you know again what the district is or is not going to review and then all that eventually goes into a preliminary study report and so I do have a new preliminary study

report template that includes all of the pieces that are required so you can work right in it it's a Word document but it goes through everything that's required in there eventually that really study report once you're ready it gets submitted to me and to your local planning board it's important to note that both the MHC and the planning board neither of us really have a role in the local historic

district process beyond the fact that you submit the study report to us so the MHC neither the MHC nor the planning board can say no to a district We Can't Stop a district in the legislation it really is just review and comment so you know I present the districts at our monthly commission meetings the commission you know votes you know yes we recommend the Fall River establish this District that's about it

uh so once you submit the study report to us into the planning board you do have to wait 60 days again that kind of gives us that time to review and comment um it seems like you guys aren't in a rush but for communities where there is kind of a rush to push something's under demolition delay Um this can be that kind of that biggest chunk of time if you are moving along

through all the other phases but it is something that you do have to account for in your process also your city so you know your city council that's going to vote on this meets more regularly than a town meeting that's only going to meet two times a year so again that's a little little more flexible for you guys so after that initial 60 days you have to hold a public hearing

you can hold other public meetings and other public hearings sort of within this time period or even before then I mean before you submit the study report but this is sort of the official required public hearing that you do have to hold under state law so there's like any public hearing there's notice requirements in terms of you know reaching out to Property Owners posting the notice things like that

then you would finalize the study report this is essentially taking anything from any comments from the public hearing from the MHC from the planning board if there's any changes that you've made to the district if you you know decide you want to change the boundaries or you know change the exemptions or anything like that that would be noted in this new final version of the study report

and then that's ultimately what gets submitted to city council for a vote so it is a two-thirds vote at city council um and then you have your District you can get the heavy minutes you get that two-thirds vote um and then of course if it's signed by the mayor if you require a mayor's signature um that you know that would be the other piece of it uh and then it is important you do have

to record your District at the registry Deeds that's an important step that makes it final and legal and then you have a new local historic district so obviously seems very quick and easy when I explain it you know within a span of two minutes there but there are a lot of steps in there um again you know I'm always here to answer questions I can answer questions right now as well but once you get into

the process um you know I work very closely with our communities that are looking to establish new districts excellent thank you um I do have a question regarding um and I I may have asked this um because I did attend one of your past um talks for establishing the districts um regarding the boundaries um we were always with the understanding that the boundaries can run um should

not run down the middle of a street that they should I mean they can't perform a corner so they need to include the properties across the street um in the case of you know at least in Fall River we have some buildings that take up full-size blocks that might not be contribute contributing um and historically there may not have been anything um you know multiple buildings were never there that sort of a thing like a

mill for example um so in that case um how stringent is it for a boundary or the boundaries to run where they should be yeah um the boundaries are really up to you as a community um and they can kind of be whatever you want um but we do make a few recommendations so so obviously under state law you can have a single property local historic district and then you can have the

entire island of Nantucket which is an entire local historic district and then anything within there you know you can make a local historic district um the goal of a local historic district is not only to protect the physical building itself but it's also to and this isn't a state law to protect and improve the surroundings and the setting of that building because that is important to the character of a

historic building you know if you have a row of houses and one of them gets knocked out and you put a parking lot in there you know that's impacting that character of that overall streetscape it's not just a loss of that one building um so that's why we do encourage communities to consider both sides of the street consider buildings that are not necessarily historic right now include vacant Lots parking lots things

like that because things could happen on those Parcels that is ultimately going to impact the character of The District so it's certainly up to you I mean obviously if it's you know it's a big shopping mall or something like that you know that that may be something that you would want to exclude because it's not entirely relevant um but you know it would be it's something to kind of think about as you

go through that study report process thinking about what the boundaries are what the character of the district is what the history of the district is and whether or not you would include that great Jen I've got a question regarding I I heard one building a one building area uh would we have to go through all of the processes including the city council vote and the mayor's signature to put one piece of

property whether it be a home or okay good thank you it's the same it's the same process for one building or an entire Community um the summer roll is kind of the poster child for single building local historic districts they've gone through that process about 160 times to make single building districts they have them everywhere in the city um but yep they use the same process again you know because you're a city it

is it is Can it can be a quicker process you know when you're in town and you're waiting for town meeting to come up it's a bit of a longer process but again you just have kind of that 60-day period in there and then you public hearing city council you know you can kind of move through oh interesting absolutely interesting okay thank you but I I we've we've spoken about that many times and I

guess we weren't quite sure so thank you for clarifying that yep great um I had one more question I know I can't really I can't remember what it was um but uh oh um regarding the form B's or the inventory so are there what sort of requirements um I know they've changed I mean versus what we have seen from the 80s obviously it's and even after that um the level of research has it's more

in depth yep yeah so we we do recommend now that communities work with a consultant who is familiar with completing the inventory forms um because we you know we do have higher standards for them than they had in the 80s in the 80s we did have a lot of volunteers doing them uh but now you know we are looking for someone trained in architectural history trained in you know completing the forms um it really

you know we look at the inventory forms now not just as here's some information about a building but really as a planning document you know here's something that you can use to think about the buildings in your community and the overall history of your community and so we want someone who can kind of connect that connect the buildings to the overall history of Fall River and really you know make make it

clear why they're important why they're significant and then we also obviously we have the internet now they didn't have the internet in the 80s you know there's there's a lot of information out there um you know some folks will do deed research now because all of that is digitized in most counties um you know and just the availability of local histories you know family histories

um you know genealogy information Census records you know we're up to 1950 now in the census so having access to all of those things and having someone who knows where to find all of those things can be really important um we do have our survey and planning grant program unfortunately you just missed the application deadline it was it was this Monday but you know for next year or something if you're thinking

about doing a survey project um that can be kind of one way to get you know a good chunk of survey forms done is coming in for a grant through that program um and then um we we can give a couple names if you know if you're going to do a project we can give you a few names of Consultants who might be appropriate or might be interested in the kind of you know

project you're looking at the kind of buildings that you're looking to survey okay excellent thank you um and the it there if we were to do a local historic district it does not necessarily need to be on the national register already it could be a standalone okay yep yeah they are two completely separate things two completely separate processes to completely separate sets of regulations

and you know impacts and everything like that um there is often overlap just because those tend to be the more significant areas in a community and those are the areas that they want to protect or honor um but one does not imply the other one does not require the other you can do one or the other it's it's certainly up to you um just the local historic district does provide more direct local protection

um whereas the national register is largely just an honorary designation excellent thank you um anyone have any other questions for Jen yeah well actually Connie um I just wondered if we have from Connie any of the lessons learned from the Highland District um I mean you mean the process that we went through yeah yes the process which I know was monthly uh but any of that because it

was all volunteers we didn't even have a historic Mission back then that was functioning I don't think um so we were kind of a standalone the preservation Society took took a hold of it and they're the ones that did the surveys um sent out the Flyers to the neighbors to the homeowners um tried to do all kinds of Education to the public I was lengthy because it was I mean we

were doing it with guidance from the mass historic Mission um and I mean when we started we were doing photos of the homes using film photo films so um you know I think the process now even though it's lengthy it's it's easier to get the information like you said Jen I mean a lot of things are online and um so I don't think we can probably compare

but we learn as you go even with this process is starting a new one you know and then and then there's Jen who you can call exactly excellent um any other questions for Jen while we have her all right how do you think all right yeah so I I'm always here if you you know you know anything else comes up um let me know I will I'll check on the pr

tomorrow when I'm on our Network I can see who the holder is and I can let you know for that for that smokestack as well that's awesome so yeah that's great thank you for that thank you for coming yes thank you thank you for sharing your time and uh that that uh a wonderful presentation of the format to get from here to there that was great I snapped the photo I hope I didn't

blind with the flash I've got it thank you so much good all right well thank you all have a good night thank you thank you so much um great um so the next item that we had moved uh was item 7B um the candidate for the historical commission we have Tanya here tonight um thank you very much for joining and foreign District so yeah welcome thank you welcome Tanya thank you very much

so why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and okay sure um yeah I'm a Fall River native uh I always had a love of History um I do have a degree in history I love to study it I love old houses I do live in an old apartment in the lower Highlands um but yeah I just I'm always fascinated and I love to you know volunteer my time where I can

um helping out folks doing great things like like you guys uh it seems like you do a lot of great work for the city so um I I work over in Newport on uh at newick uh the naval undersea Warfare Center uh I do some coordination type work for them it's really interesting um another love I have is is for the military so it's it's rewarding work as well um that's about it kept it kind of

simple so it's like all right um okay well you gave a good description I was gonna I was gonna throw this question out at you was uh why would you want to join us and you know what were you questions but you're just right in there good job yeah I think I'm I'm still trying to understand kind of the Dynamics of what you guys do um just to get a better idea of how much

time uh if I'd be able to dedicate the time you need um that's kind of a question I have as well so um just to make sure it's a good decision and I don't want to you know leave you guys um with another open spot as well so this I will I will say I've been on the board for a little little time um but I will say that this is not a once a month meeting

okay if if you get involved in this commission uh and it's I believe right now we're going to be in a growth process also uh okay it takes time you know you're generally spending a few hours a week minimally if you indulging in this properly just doing research just checking some of these buildings uh if committee issues come about and you're on that is this there's work to be done so rest assured that

this is not a it's not a 40 hour a week job but it's it's not a two hour a month uh Endeavor either okay you're gonna be spending you'll be spending a little bit of time and if we if we get into expanding the districts uh that's going to be time consuming also so be prepared um to get your feet wet and get some wear out some shoe leather okay

no I appreciate it I like you know the more information I receive the better decision I can make so um and if for some reason I don't decide to join the board is are there ways I could still volunteer with you guys or how does that work um so we do um well we we haven't gotten to the point where we're as Rick said we are under growth we will be hopefully soon in a growth stage

um and we haven't gotten we haven't really had too much involvement at least in my time I've been on the board since 2019 um where we've been you know meeting with the public and um there there is a bit of involvement where we you know as the commission um we work alongside the community preservation committee and oftentimes we have to review um projects that they're funding um and that's something that we do on

the committee in terms of volunteer work outside of that not not a whole lot um I we might have a need once we um you know if we have have to have uh public meetings for um to expand the districts um and I think that would more like as Connie said with the um the initial Highlands local historic district the preservation Society was spearheading that and that's where I can

see there will be more volunteer work or at least involvement with them um but um I'm not sure I'm not sure I could I could give you a little I think a little insight on a project that I I think is going to get off the ground a bit uh we have a we have some monies put aside by the CPC and it's been approved and it's it's sitting there and it was going to be

used that's being used that will be used to do it with core form bees and that's doing assessment of properties and you get the names and and all the history and a little photo and we submit all of that and those form bees are very crucial to even doing the district but there's an area in the city that's really needs to it's the oldest part of the city and needs that to be

accomplished now it's and Jason can attest to this one better than I am sure but we will hire a professional but we're going to need some people also to do leg work in this and uh the the half of Fall River is the center of Fall River is somewhere in the north what type of pond so there's as much land to the east of the water up upon as there is to the

west and that land has never been documented there's a lot of historic value there and it and we have nothing documented that shows all that so that again is going to be a Form B uh area where we can determine who owned it how far far back it goes what kind of history is involved in that and that's going to require a lot of a lot of legwork and a lot of

digging into and research and if history is your thing uh that might prove to be something you might say yeah look I'll if you if you're a member that's wonderful if if you're not a commissioner with us and you want to assist that would be wonderful also so you asked the question I hope that answered your particular question there is work okay it can be accomplished not being a member okay that's great to know

thank you I don't want to scare you Tanya okay uh but we we're able to call and to play other City departments um we're not alone here uh when Rick talks about this exploratory Mission um we can call in the city Forrester we can call in a number of different departments I'm a history major too and I know that your you excel in documentation I think I read somewhere that you're a configuration management specialist

prior to this position yeah but I do a lot of work and no nobody knows what a configuration management specialist does but I know because I worked in Newport and I classified your job I know that you're you excel in documentation and you know how to guide us through those hoops and loops so um I want to support Rick's uh project but also realize that one of the things that makes us visible

is calling in those departments and making sure that this this is a team this is a team effort in the city of Fall River we're not working uphill here um and showing up at the city council with nothing behind us we need those departments to support us and I I know Jason works well with all of them so we have good leadership here too that's very true the planning board will

be a big part of this endeavor also so you know so now that you've got it more than you asked for you're probably on overload can I jump in real quick too um so I just joined the board back in August so I'm pretty new um and I don't want to just give you away with the time commitment because so far for me it's been very manageable um I know on some of you I haven't seen

everything there is to see but I think it's what you make of it kind of what Rick was saying like if you wanted to take up more of your time you can get more involved but also if you don't have the time to to invest in it you can kind of take more of a back seat so don't feel like you have to go 100 from the beginning thank you I appreciate it

yeah we had um we have we've had a little bit of reading to do over the weekend and that was with our design guidelines which we're pretty excited about that's on our agenda tonight um and uh you know and talking with other communities um uh like Newport uh I think New Bedford might have some I don't know but uh uh Providence they don't have design guidelines for their historic district

commissions which you know that says something and we have we have some ready to go and um it'll guide um the homeowners building owners with uh many with maintenance with sensitive restoration uh repairs that sort of a thing for their historic properties and um you know that's had a little bit of work to do over the weekend um but so that's you know and on occasion we'll have like

I said we'll have projects that we will have to review for letters of support from the CPC the community preservation committee and um you know there's it's they have their waves where they have their funding cycles and they have to have their letters of support in um and so that's where we might have a little extra work that we might have to do a little a little bit more of reading

um I've been trying to as they come in forward everything over to the board um you know this this agenda's kind of kind of busy but um you know it sometimes our meetings are pretty streamlines uh where we don't really have too much going on uh just some old business that we have to discuss other meetings like tonight it's a little bit more a little bit more detailed foreign I also think the basic information

is in the city documents and I think Jason could send you an email on that those um ordinances that are in place once you get familiar with the basics and stick with them uh you don't really have to master the whole world in Massachusetts or the whole MCH um MHC uh documentation but if he can get Clarity on the city documentation you can call that into play anytime because most people don't read the city

documents and if you're smart about it and start quoting them you can get you can go right ahead with it yeah we're we're in the process of uh or the city is in the process of updating their website so we have what's on there right now is a little there's some outdated things we want to uh they still have the old ordinance for the historical commission we just recently merged in the last couple of months with

the historic district commission um so that was a redo of the city ordinance just for that um so um the unfortunately the information that's on the website it's not current but it will be hopefully in the next month um but I'm happy to forward any information over to you so you can see um but yeah um it's fun preservation's fun so well thank you for all the information okay welcome aboard

and I'm sure you I'm sure Jason is going to welcome you to stay on board if you'd like to see what we're going to be digging through but it's entirely up to you yeah okay um any other questions or comments for Tanya nope nope okay um what do you think at this point Tanya I definitely like to volunteer I'm just not sure about the time it's it's more of um time fluctuations with work uh

depending on projects and I would definitely like to volunteer though I think I might be leaning more toward that I'm just worried that I won't be able to dedicate all the time depending on what's going on on both sides I think that's what I'm thinking okay okay yeah and that's and that's totally fair um yeah because I apologize yeah all the information now okay thank you very much I mean it's it's yeah we have

it it there can be some things that are a little time consuming but um yeah and especially once we get going on um expanding districts and or creating new ones or just getting the new form B's done up for the Steep Brook neighborhood um you know that's going to involve a bit of review on our part just to make sure that everything is as you know it makes sense it does accurate

every all the sources have been researched and I'm just double checking all the work excellent yeah like I said I I'd love to volunteer with you guys I think that just to be fair uh and ensure that I'm not leaving you you know with extra work to do that's my main concern so awesome well thank you very much great good thank you thanks for your honesty oh of course and I appreciate all the

information again it was a pleasure meeting all of you as well thank you thank you very much so I'd like to make a motion to go back to our um agenda okay I'm emotions okay motion and a second all in favor okay um so that brings us down to 5A which is 109 Howe Street I'm pronouncing that right um it's in the South End um this is the Charlton Mill um this is

actually developing I received an email from uh Carrie over at um at licensing and she uh was asked about an outbuilding um whether the property uh if it was on the registry and um she wasn't sure which building it was it was not the main Mill structure it was um one of the outbuildings um and I did forward over to her uh um the inventory form from the mass historical commission's uh database uh the whole

property is inventoried so if the owners wanted to remove anything they would have to come before the historical commission um you know there will be a six-month demolition delay I don't know exactly what they want to do with the property um and then on top of that earlier this week I met with Ken Fiola um from the so the Bristol County Economic Development agency I think that's what the name I

can't remember off the top of my head uh as well as Sarah page uh she is with the Fall River Redevelopment Authority and um uh let's see and um so there's some oh I'm sorry that I'm jumping around but that's uh regarding um some expansion work but um the Charlton Mill did come up I believe it's um the owner wants to do some rehab but the main complex is going to stay it's just

one of the outbuildings possibly The Boiler House might might be coming down um but I don't have that information right now um but just to keep on the radar that's something's happening we should also check and see if that building received any prior funding from CPC or the state yes and I'm also going to take a look too now that uh since we had Jen on earlier to see if there's any restrictions on that

um yeah that's exactly what I'm referring to yeah okay um because that was a complete surprise that there was a restriction on the Union Mill good no um it's all in the timing I know but something will be coming up um so that's it on um item 5A um were there any questions that's all right no okay um the next item is 5c uh zero Vestal Street it's a garage

um Carrie had a sent over an email regarding that I indicated that the property is not on the registry um the next one is a 5D 656 Harvard Street um it's the attached garage uh to the house um the neighborhood is not on the register the neighborhood or any of the houses in it or not on the registry um I and I indicated that with Carrie um I do believe though that garage was an addition

um and I'm 99.9 sure that house was designed by mod darling Parlin who was the city's first female architect and a lot of her work is not a lot of her work is not documented and that could be a really good project down the line um but um I believe it was just the garage that was just being taken down the house has been recently renovated um and the next demolition uh intent was on

914 Hancock Street and that's also a garage and that too is not on the registry um so I do I put these on here just as they come in even though they are not on the registry but um uh Carey has the list um but just just in case um because I know the list that we have online is not completely updated um there's a few little details that have to get added a few houses were

added um but uh these were not on the list it's it's good that we're we're being involved in this this is good it gives us a chance to take a drive by and see what's going on and be up to date that's good thank you for that you're welcome um let's see um next up is 6a um this is all correspondence um so I received um another email from Carrie regarding

85 North Main Street that's the bank five building um the owners are going to be doing alterations to the modern addition to the building not the historic component which is the brick and white marble um neoclassical structure this is renovations to the modern Edition um but I indicated that there's no preservation that I could find I did a deed study deed search on that there's no deed restriction on that particular

property um and I'm not really over overly Wild by the design I think I forwarded it all to you um it's very bright but um you know we don't really have jurisdiction on that because it's it's not a local historic district but it's being attached to a historically it is it is but it could they could have designed it so that it Blended in with the neighborhood better especially to the attached building

across the street from the Fall River Public Library and some of the great buildings right across the street so it is kind of um disheartening to see such a fast difference in buildings is there any way that I I know that's not mandatory but is there any way that they could present to us what they're doing and why and see if we could maybe massage some of that to be more compliant I I don't think so

because we don't like I said we don't have I mean we can ask but it would have to be just but because Bank five is such a a good a large part of the community they would probably be willing to come in here that let their architect make a presentation uh and and just uh we've seen in the past where people have accommodated and made some changes to light and lighten them how I won't say a

burden but but lighten the the effects that it will have yeah I mean we could reach out and see if they can present um but I mean they're you know they it's right downtown in the heart of the city they're not required to meet with us mine does say values inclusion yeah we could try an Outreach um the guideline for commercial buildings yeah perhaps you know it makes you wonder I mean you

look at it and it's just a cold harsh looking building in comparison to its neighbors right yep I mean it's I would almost want them to just leave the building alone because right now it's that just regular brick color it's a brick red color and yeah I don't know um I'm not sure the reasoning for the remodel but is there any apprehension on your part about making a phone call and and seeing

if they would come down or um my only concern is just because we don't we don't have we don't have purview on that um if the downtown because the downtown district is only on the national register that it really doesn't prohibit them from doing anything unless they want to do exactly exactly but what I'm what I'm relating to is just out of the goodness of their heart they could say well sure we'll

make a few concessions to try and and keep the culture it is you know downtown in within the city within that area so uh it's it's worth a try I can ask um I'll I think I have the woman's email um if not I can ask Carrie for it um and I can ask her about that um well maybe if they could just share their Insight why why they're going in this direction

they chose this Direction versus you know blending in um yeah if they're making changes then why are they going more left and right okay all right I can I'll reach out I'll see if I have the email or if not I can get the contact information from Carrie yeah that'd be great okay um the next item was 6B the S course block um so we've talked about this a few times in the past several meetings

um so the building has officially been included into the national register um so that's always good to hear um that actually leads me into item five I'm sorry 6C which is the downtown Fall River historic district expansion um and regarding the course block so that was a letter that I received from the Massachusetts historical commission uh regarding the inclusion so it's now it's now officially on the register um

regarding the district expansion so I did not realize that the downtown National register District only really comprise buildings some buildings on Bedford Street and some on North Main Street up to the library um it did not include most if not all buildings on South Main Street uh it may have included I think the academy building um so I had a meeting with Ken phiola and Sarah page uh Ken filo from the Bristol

County Economic Development and Sarah page is the Redevelopment Authority and they had hired a preservation planner by the name of Andrew robley and out of Auburn New York and he is working with them on expanding the national registered District Southward to include the commercial buildings on South Main Street and part of this is as Redevelopment occurs downtown it allows the building

owners to capture historic tax credits um and also being on the national register allows them to also capture CPC funding as well rcpa funding could we in conjunction with that uh form a historic district for ourselves it you know expand into that area in other words they could double double fall what they're doing a local a local historic district yes yes um we could I did ask Andrew about that

if that was um if they're looking at also creating a local historic district he said that did not come up yet um and certainly that process can work alongside um while a national register district is in the process that that can certainly work alongside that yeah I would hope so and that that again would let us get into part of this expansion uh and and uh again start to protect some of

this great architecture and not Main Street has some beautiful buildings and some really nice Frontage you know and that's nice to maintain and not throw up Texture 111 with a little pain so I'm curious as to what prompted this so um uh so he was hired to expands the um downtown district so that it those buildings can qualify for CPC funding right because right now it just consists of North Main Street

and parts of Bedford Street so they want this to continue down South Main Street um who's who's got this interest because I mean I'm excited that somebody wants to I know this kind of came out of it felt felt like it kind of came out of nowhere um so they're doing right now there's the um they're creating a uh in the process of creating a district on Third Street and those would Encompass

the buildings that um Tony Cordero owns currently on Third Street um those are the uh the slave company is Alan slate company um and the um oh what is it the follow the women's garment workers sure thank you government workers building um this would allow them to have tax credits so it's kind of self-serving yeah it allows the bill yeah I know it allows the building with South Main Street

um it because right now there's nothing really there's no nothing designating any of the buildings on South Main Street I believe some of them are on the local on the cities registry but nothing on the national register so that would allow any developer really to come in to um tap historic historic tax credits which it's not a bad thing because they would they would have to go through the

Secretary of the Interior standards for rehabilitation and that's scrutinized a lot of restriction on oh absolutely so um and that's we like we like preservation restrictions so um so that's kind of I don't it kind of felt like it did come out of nowhere um but uh um right now the plan was to go the length of South Main up to about there's a shift where there's no commercial buildings uh in between

Kennedy Park and I want to say I can't remember the name of the street I want to say Williams there's that funny little triangle um on South Main Street it's a steep hill and I can't remember yeah yeah um so right about there so it would Encompass most really all of the downtown commercial Corridor um and then also there was a question whether or not to include um Government Center which fun little

fact it is approaching 50 years um that's kind of The Benchmark for historic structures but um you know I guess it it is representative of urban renewal and that is historic now so um which it seems odd to say that but um we you know that would include that otherwise because if you don't include Government Center what happens is um you're going to have a distinct two separate districts

um you're going to have the north part of downtown you're going to have the south end of downtown so including Government Center um would link the two different districts so this the meeting was really just to kind of explore um the planner has a pretty aggressive timeline which I had that was in the folder that I had sent to everyone um it looks like he wants to it almost not fast track but

um he's planning he does want to meet with our board at one point um so the research in the research end of it will be occurring um likely by beginning of December going through February 2023 um I believe he's submitting the letter to the mass historical Commission um that will be by early December um and all once meetings with building owners he has to have a um uh public hearings all of that will likely

lead him to accept acceptance by September of 2023.

um it seems pretty aggressive uh considering how many buildings there are um I believe he said it was somewhere in the neighborhood of adding 65 buildings to the National register um which that's pretty significant um so we will likely be involved we will be involved in this um the national register process is a lot more tedious than a local historic district um a lot of the buildings have already

been surveyed but back in this the 80s and those forms don't count anymore because the research standards have changed um so um yeah I believe he's going to be in Fall River um next month I think so we will likely be meeting with him next month it's exciting um and you know we that's it's great to have um you know to have all downtown included especially with you know the trans coming in there's a lot of

development going on and um you know I maybe with what Rick had said regarding creating a local historic district that would give us some purview on design um and it's not out of the question for downtown to have a local historic district Providence is a good example uh most actually all of the downtown area of providence is a local historic district um so that is reviewed so that's you

know we can certainly do that here in Fall River um and have a little bit more say as to what's going on with storefronts with for example Bank five what they want to do to the exterior so so that's that was that item um any questions on well just a thought Jason how far is South Maine because one of the concerns I've had over the recent decade or so is Saint Anne's Church

and it seems to me that from Middle Street to Saint Anne's Church all the way through the park all the way probably down to the Taunton River um that is an incredibly important area and an extraordinarily beautiful area so I I don't know if you're in your discussion somewhere in there is anybody bringing up Saint Anne's Church um so actually uh at our meeting Ken did um so the his

feeling was to have the district expand all the way down to include Saint Anne's now the planner that we're meeting with because there's such a shift with the buildings it goes from commercial almost instantly into residential and um you know when you talk about downtown that's not necessarily downtown um but um I had suggested that that's a good candidate for a completely separate District altogether that exactly

and Kennedy Park and the neighborhoods around it that's certainly a candidate for finance the neighborhood The Overlook yep it's extraordinary um and the other the other reasoning too regarding downtown um was because um the we're going over the different um the the history of of downtown um up until the 18 I think 1856 the state line ran right just south of Columbia Street so what is now where St

Anne's and Kennedy Park that was all technically part of Rhode Island at one point up until 1856 and then the the state lines changed so the really old part of downtown is along South Main from Columbia Street to um running up to North Main Street um so I think that's the area that he's going to be focusing in on um but no I did I recommended that that should be a separate completely separate District

around St Ann's it's also um something to consider that it it's significant in terms of French immigration and I say that because looking at Columbia Street and looking at the Portuguese settlement there and the preservation of culture Portuguese culture in Fall River we don't want to lose the French either and Saint Ann's is probably the only French site left because we don't have Eastern Avenue

anymore and we don't have Notre Dame we don't have the US uh Blessed Sacrament we don't have those iconic French um religious and cultural areas saintances in and if we don't rally around that we're going to lose that capability um so I we have I have a follow-up meeting with him next month um so I will ask about because I believe Ken was pretty adamant that we tried to do something regarding

around saying oh yeah yeah um so whether that creates another District um I don't know how that plays into their plans but no that makes that makes total sense um any other questions on that okay um all right so the next item is six d That's 244 grocery um uh the house uh Carey had reached out uh regarding the property because I think somebody was interested in buying it um and wanted to know if there's any

restrictions um I did mention that it is on the city's registry um and I believe it's also part of the lower Highlands National register District so uh because of that if they wanted to demo the house that there's a six month delay um per ordinance but that's all I had on that one um six e which is San uh the Sanford spinning Mill a land lease um I was contacted by a woman who um

uh the company that she works for is looking to at least do a land lease um so they are looking to see if they can take the mill down um now I'm not familiar with how that whole process works with the land lease but I did mention to her that we had just recently approved a letter of support uh for that structure for um uh historic tax credits there's a rehabilitation plan in place for the

building so I'm not sure how what changed she I did ask her if there was any change with um with the the plans that were that we were given um it was supposed to be I believe an apartment building um and I think the owners are just trying to explore other options um so I'm not sure what what that's about but I did indicate that the building will have um uh the ordinance the six-month demolition delay

um so I don't know if we'll see more of that soon but um let's see and then um which is the Duvall Mills um I received an email uh from um a woman who works for sage environmental they're doing a phase one environmental site assessment um so she was looking for information uh his uh any historical documents that exist on the property um I did send over the file from the mass historical commission

um and the inventory form um and also um I had included in the email I had uh gave her the email to the registrar over at the Fall River Historical Society so she's looking for any additional information but it sounds like the building is bless you um it does sound like the building um may be explored for rehabilitation um so that's that's huge because that Mill building is in dire need of

work and it's significant I think it's one of the oldest middle complexes in the city and it's the only one in the city that has a mansard roof which is pretty you know pretty important too architecturally um so I was pretty pleased to see that something something's happening over there um well it remains to be seen what happens what's that it'd be great to have that restored it is such a beautiful building and such

an important corner too considering that all the mills in that area are gone um yep the big one was uh the board End Mill I think with the that was arlins at one point with the two towers um you know all the mill complexes around there are gone and that's the last surviving one so you know and they knocked down the one that Masons was right across the street the granite one and now we have

out Stop and Shop yeah so fingers crossed this is uh you know a good a good project so um so that's that I have for correspondence um next up item seven eight a long-awaited design guidelines um so Dominique had sent over I know very exciting uh Dominique has sent over the final sections um and I'm just gonna minimize my screen real quick um so and I had sent over um all of the

final draft that she had um and so I don't know how you want to do this I know we had approved some in the past but I think would it make more sense just to go down the line if there's any questions in a go by section and improve D you can just approve each section if you want but okay because I know we had approved some in the past but yes

um yeah and that was before I came on to as chairs so I don't have that in front of me as to which ones we did approve but um do you see more official so Jim sold from the preservation Society did point one one problem on the guidelines for exterior maintenance okay it says city of Portsmouth

all right so that's section two

you know I don't know if I actually even noticed that um going down to the main information and you're not even looking at that and I was looking right down going right through the the the body of the the of the packet not even looking at the top um all right were there any so do we want to go with section one if everybody you want to just take Section take one section at a

time ask and take a vote on it and approve or disapprove or make changes or as a whole as a whole would be fine also yeah we can do that so um do we have any questions or concerns on section one um and that is the introduction um I think there were some highlights that she had to fill in but um this is just uh the final draft but I had no I had no

questions or concerns on the first one I know in page a page am I on section one the uh intro okay um I have a motion a motion to approve section one also okay uh motion of the second to approve section one of the design guidelines all in favor hi okay all right so section two we're going to address the city of Portsmouth um oops um but I didn't have once that's fixed

that's the only thing she has you know to fix otherwise I don't learn no I have no concerns I am loving all the imagery that she has included yeah um and she has what's really cool too the um uh the different materials um which is huge because we're constantly looking at you know there's always a need to and maintenance and maintenance importance of Maintenance yeah so I love that yeah this is great

um yeah I have no questions on that any any other questions uh concerns on section two aside from the one little typo on the top a motion to approve it when that once would not that only that change um we can we can make a motion to approve as it is um you know with that one little caveat okay

all right okay and I'll second all right Motion in a second to approve section two uh um uh pending the edit from city of Portsmouth the city of Fall River um all in favor aye all right next up is section three which is Roofing um any questions concerns on Roofing oh I see a familiar household there right Connie isn't that your house it's good that it's a good example none of that example Dr Fisk house

uh Street uh have a new roof um with the um you know what resin yeah the resins uh shingles that look like Sleek that's great what was um out of curiosity what is the um price comparison to that with uh with slate and a slate is expensive in general um but or not necessarily the price comparison but the long cavity or yeah like or what's the um maybe not the price comparison but the longevity

between the two the Slate's pretty long but it's also very it's cost prohibitive

slate will last hundreds of years the problem with that is they use copper nails and you had corrosion and galvanic action of sorts between the materials and the atmosphere and and that's what gives way but today you've got new nailing materials that you put a slate root Out roof there and you can use uh some some materials now that will not give way to corrosion it'll last forever

shingles as we know don't don't last forever um and then the resin ones is 75 000 which lasts well over 100 years that's fantastic yeah and uh real slate is about a hundred and fifty thousand and also lasts double the cost yeah that's incredible hmm and I repaired last year by a slate company a small leak I had uh in near the one of the stacks and I asked them about

um you know looking around and like the the idea about not having slate and he basically told me that my roof would last me forever

so I mean anyone that does have sleep it's best to just maintain it exactly okay but it looks great so it's hard to see if you're driving up the street but um you'll be pictures posted and stuff excellent very exciting it is exciting that neighborhood doesn't does a nice shot in the arm very good after the uh sorry about that no no no no it's a nice segue um but uh yeah do we have any questions

concerns on Roofing um foreign can I get a motion for content with it okay I'll make a motion that we accept the article on Roofing I'll second that all right I have a motion and a second to approve section three Roofing all in favor aye all right next up section four exterior would work there any questions on that you know we were very fortunate in being able to look at these months prior to

and get whatever we needed correct it so this is this is going through very quickly and I would make a motion that we accept that article for section four great all right I have a motion and a second to approve section four exterior would work all in favor okay all right next is section five masonry and stucco I feel like this one we just recently reviewed maybe the last few months so

um I think this is just basically she had to add in her images any questions on this one I'll make a motion that we approve okay um lotion okay I'll second all right I have a motion in a second to approve section five masonry and stucco all in favor okay section six windows and doors bad I'll make a motion to approve okay I'll sec in that motion all right I have

a motion and a second to approve section six windows and doors all in favor all right um section seven is for site elements any questions or concerns on this section

no I'll make a motion to approve we're doing okay I'll second all right I have a motion and a second to approve section seven uh site elements all in favor um all right and we have section eight which is new construction

any questions concerns on this one no no okay make a motion to approve I'll second it all right I have an emotion and a second to approve Section 8 new editions all in favor hi hi all right um and you know in the folder that I sent everyone um I don't think I had in there the commercial oh what's in there oh it wasn't there no sorry we had it separately yeah

yeah I did send that everywhere to everyone separately it just wasn't in that folder um were there any questions concerns on that section I didn't have any now I make a motion to approve I'll second it okay all right have a motion in a second uh to approve uh the commercial this section on Commercial structures all in favor aye aye aye okay so I think that's it for the design guidelines

um right those are all the sections I'm not missing any Jim's dancing in the background we did that one already okay um yes this is exciting um so I will let Dominique know that we are all approved and ready to go um just that one caveat on section two this is not Portsmouth excellent okay cool awesome that's exciting exciting so I don't know what the I'll have to find out what the time uh what

the turnaround is um to get the you know well it will certainly be Jason a lot shorter than the two years has been to get here I know this is exciting and that's that's when the historic commission got it like it's I feel like this has been going on way too long way too long um and I know the um the the hiccup that she had with the payment um that I think finally went through too

so thank God yeah good all right so I know we jumped around um we still have a meeting um I think so aside from that um so the next is we had no that was basically it um open discussion um so we have anything for open discussion at all no we should update probably not updating are we not um we'll have to put that because I have to advertise that on the agenda so that

we'll have to probably make it to the next agenda um so I will put down gas meters on the next agenda Rick you look like you're gonna say something no I was just I was just thinking of the resignation and uh getting someone on board quickly with the CPC from the historic commission that's all and okay you think we have to wait a month or so before we can do that

um I think so because uh um the resignation came before came to us um it hasn't been on file it has not been filed yet with of Clerks so um I just had to I just want to nail down that process but we can do that at the next meeting and then um what else oh um no I think that's it gotcha yep um so great so we our next meeting is on Tuesday December

20th at 6 PM right before the holidays um prior so that it's not yeah let me um I will find out um I will ask um I can ask Alex to see what um because we can do we can do virtual up until the end of March 2023.

um that's per Governor Baker um so I can ask to ask to see what dates are available if we could do the Tuesday before um or anytime that anyone's I could get some dates and send them out um we might end up having to meet earlier anyways if we meet with uh Miss Corey from um the Union Mill complex um so we may end up having to meet a little earlier okay

um great so I think that's it may I have a time is now 7 36 this is a long one for us uh may I have a motion to adjourn at 7 36. all right and may everyone have a nice Thanksgiving you too and I'll make a motion that we adjourn I second that motion okay all right I have a motion and a second to adjourn all in favor I and we can still get to Jeopardy

thank you so much everyone this is a great night thank you