11.30.2023 - Historical Commission

uh good evening everyone and uh thank you for joining us for uh this uh special meeting of the Fall River historical commission um it is Thursday November 30th 2023 it is 6:00 p.m. uh pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are

being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible uh this meeting is being recorded on Fall River government TV and will be available on their YouTube page um can I get a roll call please Elizabeth D Joyce Rodricks present Rick Mancini present Connie Soul present Jonathan Lima present Ashley dunia present and Jason Bard nqi present

uh we have no open seats um see so the first item on the agenda is to review the minutes from November 21st 2023 Elizabeth had sent those out um I did have one um uh one change or one addition sorry to it um I guess underneath the header uh can you put down the just the header that says or line that says um historical commission minutes with the date on it um because I

I'm not seeing it on the do I usually it's usually on there oh yeah the the layout changed with the um with the new city logo and the header so um but if that can just get added um so historical commission uh meeting minutes with the date of the meeting um and then that way I can submit those but I had no other um comments on it did anyone have any other comments on the

no I'll make a motion that we approve the minutes with the additional I'll second that motion okay I have a motion by Rick and a second by Joyce for the minutes from November 21st just with the addition of that line um may I get a roll call vote please uh Elizabeth yes Joyce approved Rick Mancini yes yes Connie yes John and Ashley yes and Jason Bard and Rocky yes okay thank you um all

right so thank you that um do we have any citizens input regarding the agenda okay um so under new business item two we did re uh we received a request from councelor Linda Pereira uh regarding an opinion from our commission uh regarding the bank Street Armory the sale that uh has been coming up before the city council it has been tabled um the last meeting I believe was on Tuesday uh this past Tuesday so that

that would have been the 28th and I believe they did not have enough votes to lift it um so their next meeting is on December 12th and um she's asking for an opinion from our board regarding the proposal at um that is currently at present um as a background um so as part of the RFP that went out earlier this year um one of the requirements was that the chair of the historical Commission sit in to

review um any proposals that came before the committee that I believe is the real estate committee that was overseeing the sale um only one proposal came before that committee um so I did sit in on a meeting it was in I can't exact I I don't remember the exact date but it was in May of this year um and so we did re review the one proposal that came before

uh the city and I did pass around in the email that proposal and it was basically a rank scale of what was important to to those that were ranking it um in terms of that's how they judged whether or not to proceed with that particular sale but the there's only one um proposal that came before that committee um but aside from that no other there was never any Outreach to our commission

uh for an opinion um um we are charged with protecting the city's historical assets um and that's why we are meeting so um I did send around the proposal from uh forgive me I don't remember the um the name Main Street projects LLC thank you um which is headed up by uh Alan mimer um we have reviewed projects of his in the past uh one of which being the Bradford dery textile School across

the street on dery Street uh um only because they've reviewed or they've gone after tax credits on the state and federal level um so this particular project uh there are plans in there um the current proposal is to convert the structure into um primarily housing uh I don't think there's any other commercial development um which includes also uh carving up the drill Hall into smaller

units um there is a deed restriction on the property which was also in the email that I sent out um the preservation deed restriction was uh created in um 2017 um it is be between the city and the Massachusetts historical commission um the deed restriction it's pretty typical of what we've seen with uh preservation restrictions we did review one recently on the Union Mill this one

is maybe not as thorough but um uh it's fairly recent um and the holder of the Restriction is the Massachusetts historical commission um did you I'll get a chance to look through the restrictions okay um so um and I sorry and I do have photos I was able to go in yesterday and I'm just going to start I didn't have chance to caption the photos but um I can send around the

folder through email also um and this is just to see what the current conditions are we have the drill Hall which is used for storage this is a first floor room um there's a bit of water damage from the roof there's also mold there's no um water running water or heat in this building at the moment um but the it hasn't been used in eight years so it has as you can imagine

the um Decay has sped up a bit especially over the winter there were a number window windows that were open um there are a lot of peeling paint cracked plaster um you know the building is not ADA Compliant um that's on the second floor and I do apologize these are going fast but I can recycle or cycle through these again um but uh the primary space in the building uh you have a number of

rooms uh in the head house on four Floors Plus the drill hul in the back um and yeah just a as you can see that um so I guess let's I guess go around and discuss the plan um for the housing and um any comments that you have on it um let's go from there I guess so the restrictions are pretty tight um I will say uh there was one uh section three um regarding alterations

um is says the grantour which is the city um agrees that no alterations shall be made to the premises including the alteration of any interior unless a clearly of minor nature or not affecting the characteristics which contribute to the architectural archaeological or historical Integrity of the premises or B the commission which is the um Massachusetts historical commission has previously determined that it will not

impair such characteristics after reviewing plans and specifications submitted by the grantor or c required by casualty or other emergency promptly reported to the commission ordinary maintenance and repair of the premises may be made without the written permission of the commission for purposes of this section interpretation of that con sorry interpretation of what constitutes alterations of a minor

nature and ordinary maintenance and repair is governed by the Restriction guidelines which are attached to this agreement and hereby incorporate Incorporated by reference and in the restrictions there are the um what's what constitutes major and minor um my first my my biggest concern is really the drill hall because that's a significant space and that's really what makes up the Armory building that's the

largest space in that building um so under the restrictions uh a major change would be creating new openings in walls or permanently sealing off existing openings adding permanent partitions which obscure a significant original room Arrangement demolishing existing walls removing or altering stylistic features altering primary staircases and then a minor would be making fully reversible changes example being seiling

off doors in place leaving doors and door openings fully exposed uh to the spatial arrangement of a non-significant portion of the building um so any major changes do need to be reviewed by the Massachusetts historical commission they need to to approve it um should the building sell uh to a private developer they uh they the the deed restriction goes with it um the deed restriction is in

perpetuity um so it's uh it's pretty it's permanent for the most part um so my biggest concern is the drill Hall um I I'm not really on board with carving up a space like that especially when looking at the deed restriction I'm curious how how how they're able to work with the state um any anyone want to add to that what is the plan if let's say the sale goes through what what are the next

steps for the buyer as far as those restrictions go because they have these plans and these great ideas and then you turn around and they say well sorry you can't really do that then what happens are there variances what what's that process look like um that I'm not sure so the plans they would have to I know they have been working with the state I don't know how successful that has been

um so the and he has a timeline that was in the um the packet yeah which I think would need to be updated because I think it was started like last year yeah this was supposed to this was also supposed to happen much earlier um so um I know he has been working with the state I know the the design has changed ever so slightly in the drill Hall specifically um because of where

those partition walls are going to meet the existing trusses I can go back to that that's um that image if you want um so I me you can't really tell but um so the windows are fairly low on the walls over there but um the partition walls would um originally they were to go against the the trusses and the roof the roofing structure and I believe they've had to

pull that in a bit um the other thing too um they have to maintain I guess a visual Corridor so when you walk in the front door there's a long hallway and then you get to another set of doors and that brings you into the drill Hall and so from front to back there has to be this opening in the middle and that will give the tenants access to their Apartments um some of

the apartments I think are double story um and they're not cutting into the roof with any more uh for Windows um there is a the daylight the daylight there's an interesting Skylight system solar tube yeah it's pretty cool yeah there's a I've never seen anything like that um so I did when when we did meet um I did request um you know should the sale go through um because ultimately they will

be coming back before us for a letter of support for tax credits um and I think they're working with Epsilon um so if that's the case they will I have asked for very detailed renderings of what those tubes look like because I've I've in my professional experience I've never seen that on a building um parents have one in the so they look pretty interest interesting but it would it wouldn't Mar the

exterior of the of the roof I suppose but um but yeah so I guess the sticking point is the the breaking up of that drill Hall um any feedback or com comments I guess um what is everyone's feeling on the sale or the proposal as it stands I guess I I would say that you know reading through the restrictions and the plans uh the sections that you've already brought up uh were really

what stuck out to me I don't know u i I assume from the context of this conversation that uh this plan has not met criteria b in section 3 which means that the commission at the state level has not approved this plan uh I don't know how this plan drives with Section 3 at all minus that approval and I agree with you that that open space is something that ought to be preserved I

think it's a very significant building in in a significant neighborhood in our city I think it's got a lot of potential and and I don't know that um divvying up that space into I think it was 17 uh town hous style it kind of look more lofted Department style to me but either way I don't know that that's uh in the the best interest of the community to be honest yeah I think the big Open Spaces

character defining feature of the building it speaks to the purpose that it was used for so breaking up that space would completely detach it from its history but I also understand it needs to be economically viable too so I don't know how they would recoup that like I think the front part of the building is a good opportunity for apartments because it's already laid out in individual

rooms and I meant to send I I was trying to find the the study there that was done on the Armory that's in Providence the cranon street because that's going through a similar um but that one's also several times larger than this one so it's not the greatest example but the drill Hall in that does stay uh as one single space and then I believe apartments or offices and the towers so

that you know that I can in my personal not personal my my professional opinion on that the drill Hall should remain that needs to be preserved I do agree the apartments will be better suited for the the head house um and because they're going after state and federal tax credits the whole building is going to be surveyed inside and out um so if there's any uh character defining features the staircase for example um

there there's a semi- ordinate fireplace up on the fourth floor some pretty woodwork that sort of a thing doors those are resource those are historic resources that would likely have to get maintained and uh uh restored um so but I'm it's the it really is the drill Hall um I guess the build they the The Proposal would not be feasible without the apartments in the drill um and if it was open to the public um I

believe the developer is working on some sort of a blackbox theater or performance space across the street in the the developments called that's called the creative class um so that was never put on the table for the drill Hall to have that open for venues which that would be a great news for sense oh absolutely um I mean there are armories that are open for for public use like

this um paket has one um New York New York city has the the famous one on Park Avenue um so it is it has been done um the Newport Armory I think that's a museum now mum be the antique mall it used to be anti Mall example of a retail space that was still a huge wide open room exactly and they maintained that a newport's fairly strict too when it comes to their their um their historic

properties yeah um but no I mean I I agree I think the drill Hall needs to be preserved the um should always remain as a public public space um it has been since the 1970s when the city took it over from the state um so any other questions on that I believe the proposal is to sell it for acquired for 200,000 and the apartment conversion is roughly 13 million give or take it's probably a

little a little bit more but um uh I mean the building needs all new windows it needs all new heating Plumbing um uh I believe it has CPC funding already on the roof what part of the roof was replaced that at the first portion uh in is two levels of flat roof the lower level the lower level okay um so not the front of the head house but like in the back area of

the head okay not the the Slate on the back not the Slate oh okay the Slate is in amazing the Slate is in excellent condition um was that replaced at all recently no okay so slate has a life expectancy of 60 120 plus years if they're properly maintained so I me that's good that it's it looks fantastic um but the rest of the building needs repointing new windows that sort of a thing um

so so our so we're tasked with writing an opinion um do we do we feel that this is the best use of the building for housing my concern is that it's been under the city's control for long enough now and this is what it looks like yeah um so the city isn't doing what needs to be done to maintain the building and if somebody is willing to do so then I

think that's a great idea um because I don't foresee if this is the stage it's in now after how many years eight eight years um if it sat for eight years untouched and got to the level of Decay that it's in I can only imagine that within the next 5 to 10 years it's going to get worse and windows are not going to get replaced it's not going to get repointed

and it's going to stay like that um I do however agree with the drill Hall having to be maintained and restored um and maybe there's a different utilization for that for for um the the buyers and maybe that's a different proposal that they can come up with or whatever um so I think as a whole as the proposal stands now it it's not conducive to kind of the general consensus here with the drill

Hall whereas if it was kind of broken up with the main house the front um in the drill Hall being separate like an entirely different project or something if that was kind of off this proposal then I would say I completely agree I think it's the best utilization um maybe it's not the best but it's it's what's been brought to us um and no one else has had a better idea in eight years

so that's how that's how I feel spin off of what you mentioning Ashley uh and you're right the city has allowed the building to Decay and so many other structures have seen that Faith here in the city uh a suggestion might warrant some I'm looking into and that would be to assign the property to not take it away from the city necessarily but signed it to another division or another

group within the city structure that would be able to form a committee to go out and fund raise and be able to manage the building take the management away from the present management that's doesn't appear to have funding uh to take care of the building and maybe that would work uh and that would allow and and take a take a go at it for a year what's what what could happen part part

of the deed restriction is also that the city was supposed to be maintaining this building so it has yes so it has not met that obligation and I I thank Mr mayber for coming and bringing that to light um because like you said many of our historical buildings have met that fate um and he is a reputable developer I won't take that away from him he's he's great when it comes to that I just don't

agree that market rate uh housing is currently the right decision for this building um I don't think so because um of the historical nature and location um of this uh of this building I mean it's an iconic building um and so therefore I I don't agree that it should be market rate housing at this time I know that's the only proposal at this point but I think at this time the city needs to step up and

um do everything possible to um start correcting what's wrong with the building the roof I mean there were buckets fil with water when we did the walk through so the roof is leaking and I don't believe the city has applied for any CPA have they this year okay so that's that's a simple fix Windows even if you have to go in there and shut the windows we walk through they with three windows open to the

elements so this isn't maintaining a building I mean you're not going to open Windows you going have to leave open windows in in a vacant building not having it heated or winter IED you're asking for the building to just fall apart you're setting that building up look at that thing you're setting that building up to fail uh by not doing a basic maintenance so that it would buy time for um use of

the building you know like to figure out something to to get funding to get grants so I think applying for like emergency funding for to do the roof and the windows for C from CPA um I think that would be one thing to do another thing to do is uh a code of feasibility and structural survey not not one that was done like in what was it 201 2015 whenever it was done 15 um

which I looks to me like it was it was swayed into One Direction and from looking at it so I think it should be it shouldn't just be one person doing a c there should be an it should be objective it shouldn't be like hey I'm hiring you and I want it I want to do this or I want it to go in this direction and to me what I read it's it

seemed that's what was happening and when you walk through the building I don't know if any the rest of you have walked through it when you walk through it it's amazing like the the pictures that you took were like the areas that were really in bad shape but they're so the the staircases are still intact the spindles are all I can't believe there wasn't a spindle missing the woodwork

just looks amazing and it's um anybody that's like lived in Fall River voted in there gone in there for any reason like you walk in it's it's kind of it's dis there you go yeah it's disheartening to see um an iconic building like this just um not taken care of and and then the other thing is there's active vegetation growing through yes in the roof yeah like and that's like simple stuff like

you know keep your gutters clean keep keep vegetation out uh like right there and that's it that Branch that's growing out of the chimney is quite thick it the photo is deceiving yeah um and there's Bittersweet on the other side like grown wild so I do think like simple things like that need to be done and um like I said I I really respect Mr maycumber and his you know and I watched uh his

presentation and one thing he said that kind of uh um you know kind of struck a cord with me was that even if he does if he doesn't of purchasing the build and if it's not sold to him to at least um stop protecting it you know the roof windows that type of thing and um and I have to say I I praise him because he brought this to light because honestly I

don't think I think it would have just sat there and Fallen apart just like the former police station and it's still standing even though the roof is but it's still standing you know so even with you know Decades of neglect so these buildings have they're strong and U and they they're significant to our city there so that's my thought on you know I would support what Connie just outlined I went back

into the Harold News to see the context of this and at no time was there any decision that this would Bank Street Army would become housing at no time all the discussion was that it would be art and cultural because of the overlay district and also the historic downtown district that view never changed that view changed recently when the administration could not get a package development

from the developer of the puket Armory and that fell through the view changed there was only one estimate that came through which was the current developer and that was it that was it no further discussion went along with that uh my notes from The Herald news showed that this city council voted 8 to Zer in 2020 for a plan for an Arts Center to be developed by the for of Development Authority that never

happened I followed the council discussion in October and I listened to the citizen input and I listened to the counselors who were voting on this and I agree with their decision that they don't have enough information they have one bid they have one set of numbers but they don't have an estimate for what it would take to be a cultural and art center they have an estimate for housing 37

apartments in that building will not will will hardly put a dent into Fall River housing problems 37 apartments are not going to fix the housing problem what will happen is that we're going to lose an area in the city that we could have developed into either uh athletic or arts or cultural centers uh uh I give an example of the city of edoro uh you could call it up Mr

chairman um uh city of adabor had the same situation they developed their Armory into a sports center it's in constant use it's in constantly bringing in income um we can check it out we can call it up and get a print out of what the city of adaro did we can get some information uh to make a long story short I would recommend that we take an interest in developing an estimate for an Arts Center

and that would be developed through the grant administrator Jane D miio she's been writing grants she's been researching grants she's been looking into funding I have been looking into funding the park department has a a grant program for historic sites the park Department this the um Federal Federal Park Department actually put put out money for Pucket for the Pucket Armory it's not unknown

it's not unknown that there are federal grants that could support historic sites like the bank Street Armory in the meantime your points are very well taken there are emergency repairs that need to be done just like in 2016 there were emergency repairs that had to be done so the building wouldn't fall down and that was $283,000 that taxpayers through the CPC invested in the building seven years

later we have the same situation emergency repairs the developer pointed out what those repairs would be apparently he's able to uh comprehend them and he's able to fix them but apparently we're not so this developer says we've got emergency repairs if we don't make this decision now um you're not going to be able to retain the building so we're in we're in the same position seven years later we need to

make emergency repairs which we haven't done and that needs to be looked into by the administration here at Government Center the CPC is able to provide emergency funding just like they did 7 years ago just like they've done several times in the past when buildings have been endangered and falling down so my decision my my view it's certainly not my decision but my view is that I agree with the council the

council's vote which was they they're trying to make a a decision based on one estimate based on one estimate and that's why it was tabled I I viewed it on Zoom I followed it up with another meeting and um uh the vote that those um several councilors made uh was that they wanted more information they wanted more information how are we going to balance this decision against what we don't know

and I I would be sted meet as a a counselor uh for the same reason I don't want to give up a building like this in the city of Fall River as a taxpayer in the city as a dery graduate who was there when the basketball games were being played so I that's been a part of my life just like it has been with the um citizen input Mike Heron and Chris Heron uh those two are

movers and shakers and they are um uh key people in terms of getting citizen support for making the renovations happen and make that building Thrive again in the downtown area we don't have a Capital Theater we don't have a dery theater we don't have any assembly area and we don't have any night life in that area of the city because 195 splits the city in half so the comments that being

made the comments made by the developer uh to bring life back to the city that's great because that would happen that would happen when you have an active Center in the historic district and I would bring that out and I would also ask the chair what is the impact on the historic district because if you start putting apartments in the Bank Street Armory you're going to put apartments in the

banks you're going to put apartments in the library I mean that's that's the historic district you know if you're going to start determining that it's apartments that we need the historic district will be affected by it and and and and we're going to lose out in the in the big picture uh so I'm in favor of what the council has already voted which is that they need more information we need a mergency

repairs and we need another vote by the administration as to where they stand on developing historic properties in the city of Fall River Joyce thank you very much um and and I I agree with your sentiments and how is it going to affect the on the district in the in the districts and the plan there's only one the one proposal and I I think it's very shortsighted there's a lot of activity going on to

for the betterment of downtown Fall River um you know we have the the ongoing Pro uh project of expanding the downtown National register District to include South Main Street um because right now the only building that's really listed on South Main Street is the Borden block but you have the whole span after that and then there's the opportunity of expanding that District outward to include um parts of dery Street

um and you know that a Civic Center like Fall River needs should have a public gathering space we don't you're you're correct we don't have any theaters we don't have any any Civic Center I guess or uh Gathering Place this building was for a long time um one of the primary Civic centers in in the city um if it didn't occur at say dery or one of the other buildings but um and to turn it

into housing cuts that off completely um and there's a lot of opportunity to for revitalization downtown but they um I think what this project just does not take into consideration what's going to be happening in the future in downtown um so and and Rick I do apologize that you were going to say something earlier no um but uh with regards to needing more information um the Massachusetts Massachusetts historical

commission puts out grant opportunities all the time uh for studies and that type of uh grant funding for studies can be used on this building for structural assessments for an updated feasibility assessment the the last one was done in 2015 you we've had a pandemic which dramatically changed the real estate market um and uh and how people respond to um you developing historic buildings um and

you know we it's not updated um it's 2015 that was horribly it's horribly out of date now um so if the city were to pause I I feel the city really should in my opinion should pause on the sale to get that that additional information um mean while applying for emergency funding to safeguard the building the the interior needs work that's that's a given but the outside envelope if you're able to put a

new roof on new windows you're more or less mothballing the building um and then that buys the city some time to get these new studies done um and I know people I I I know it's easy to get a study done but then it gets shelved afterwards and there's no movement but um you know the the public outcry on this particular building is pretty substantial um so um and I wish we had that response

with most other developments that come into town um so um but that's that's where I stand with that and not to forget the uh 79 expansion in two or three years that might make this particular project even more viable than it is now because there's a lot of expansion going on there again back to my original comment a separate group a separate entity to take responsibility of the building and then

chase the grants and and it rather than at this point there's really no one taking responsibility for that building it's the city but what's the city and who in the city is watching over this but but if you form a committee or a group if we could get something formed that would then have the responsibility of looking into this building it's not assigning duties and let it would become

more focused which it appears not to be at this point uh it's run by the Parks Board Park board has control of that building yes and and they the city has the capabilities of transferring it into a different committee or an organization yes okay um and then I mean that does buy the the city some time to figure out the next best steps for this um and as you suggested if the envelope is sealed M

then the building should not Decay at right that it is at this correct and it if and if the bottom line is in two or three years there just nothing we can do with the property when 79 is being developed by then the building will will be no worse than it presently is it would be better because it'd be sealed it could go up for sale again I mean

it's not it wouldn't be lost as as the police station is because this police station was just let go completely MH do we know how many times an RFP went out for this don't I don't know um this is the only one to my knowledge um I believe I believe two or two years ago or so three years ago there was one there were a couple of developers that were interested that that

eventually due to circumstances you financially or whatever had to bail out of The Proposal uh I'm not really sure about anything prior to that was it if you recall was it also housing proposals or more not it was more in the arts and culture so there's opportunity out there people are interested in doing so yeah um and the uh and that whole neighborhood's changing we just reviewed the bank next

door to it on uh the corner of Bank in uh Bank Street and North Main Street sealed uh BMC dery trust and that's becoming 8 North Main 80 North Main that's becoming Apartments um I'm not sure if there's anything else on North Main proper um as of yet but uh that are you talking about the one next door across the street from Bank five yes um so that one I forget 15 20

Apartments somewhere around there but it's still not going to make a dent in the housing issue uh although we did review a number of big projects um Chase Street the Flint Mills those collectively that's 800 apartments right there plus Mill Avenue GL Mill a there's a a number going in there and I think I read somewhere was on Herold news I'm not sure there's somewhere in the pipeline approximately 2,000 Apartments

proposed in Fall River um I'm not in they're in various states of Permitting and construction but that's that's significant that's that's a lot um so the land that's being redeveloped from9 that's 14 acres I think that will be set aside for and I they haven't I don't think the State or the city have yet determined what the zoning is going to be like over there what's going to be permitted um

so yeah there's a study being done by the Redevelopment Authority at this point uh to look at that whole 79 and and it's going to the present uh land at Mast is anywhere from 19 to 22 Acres okay that's going to become available that's a lot that's a lot that's a lot yes um and we're seeing that happen right now in Providence with all the land in the highway along the 195

Corridor um that's being built up um a lot of Apartments but most of the buildings are mixed uh from my understanding but most of them are mixed use so they have retail on the first floor and apartments upstairs some offices but um you know we have that we have that opportunity with the expansion of the downtown National register District um because then those Property Owners can tap into federal and state

historic tax credits um to help re D their buildings um and this particular building you it's right on the border of that um so but again there's no public building Mr chairman are you looking to uh take a vote as to what each individual uh commissioner is looking to do with the property either sail or maintain it through the city are you looking for that type of a vote um but that makes sense where everyone's views

are on the projects I don't know if we well and then you how you going to put an opinion letter together like would we shouldn't we vote on ideas yeah let's yeah before we vote should we each go through just summarize our views and then based on the V Point list that we can vote on that works which points we want included in the letter okay that works um all

right so we should just go down line yeah all right sure okay so I mean what I said before I I still think the front of the building could be Apartments if they need it to make it economically viable like if that could help fund the use of of the rest of the building um but yeah I definitely think it's not feasible to to carve up the drill Hall space that needs to be retained AED and

if there could be some kind of arts and culture use for a recreation I think that would be ideal and then possibly retail flexible space um because I do love the idea of having an arts and culture center but like to Ashley's point it's been sitting crumbling the city hasn't done anything and maybe if it was in private hands it would actually generate income and be able to sustain itself and it can

maintain over time without constantly have to seek Grand funding yeah exactly um so I think that kind of summarizes my view and I also totally agree with um the pause on making a decision about a sale right now I think it does make sense to make designate another entity or committee that would be solely responsible for you know um getting that feasibility study done and getting the emergency maintenance done

okay thank you um Joyce do you want to sum up your thoughts on on where you stand with with this no do you want want to sum up your sum up your thoughts on the on the proposal as it stands with the sale uh I have to say that I would not support the sale I would not support the sale okay on the basis of the fact again as I as I've heard a number of times

um the Administration has not really been clear over the years as to what function the bank Street Armory has in the development of Fall River and also um needs to be clearer on the um position that historic buildings have in the downtown area I would have to say I oppose the s thank you um Rick uh in my many years I remember when that building actually supported the National Guard and uh I

was very with a lot of mixed emotions as to what direction we should go with this property uh after listening to city council responses and and reading a lot of this documentation uh and actually touring the building uh I'm opposed to the sale of the building uh I think we should as I suggested earlier that if a committee or a group could get formed by the city to look at uh funding and look at

preserving the building and you know fundamentally that would probably be in my opinion uh the approach to take at this point I I am opposed at this point to the sale of the building thank you um Connie so as everyone has stated before um before me um I uh do agree with the pause and and oppose the sale of the building at this time and as it stands because it doesn't meet the uh restrictions um

and everything else I had said before I feel like the city or should assign someone I think that's a great idea that's been brought forth here um should assign an entity of some sort to oversee and again I'd recap what I said was I I really think the next steps is to do a Fe of code inst structural survey objective one um and uh for the city to also consider emergency application to the

CPC or CPA funding for the Emergency um repairs roof windows and um also for the city the parks department or whoever's in charge to remove the active vegetation grow to stop any further damage from that as it's coming through the granite um parets and um kind of where I stand uh Jonathan um I I would firstly say that I oppose the sale at this time um I think primarily because I don't

believe it to be in keeping with the preservation restrictions which I think should be probably the largest governing part of this decision beyond that as many of us have stated I believe that at least um the drill Hall should be preserved uh whether that's in some sort of municipally controlled capacity for athletics or public events or if it needed to be economically viable it

could be some sort of open retail space which is uh apparently what other communities have done uh I think there's a lot of options there but I don't think this is the right one I think that um Rick accurately points out also that uh the desirability of different projects may change as the area changes as the Route 79 Redevelopment goes on uh right now it may be true that to a private

developer uh the only financially advantageous move would be to build a bunch of Housing and sell it because the Market's great uh but it may be true that it would be more desirable to other developments as the area ches um not so much a comment but more of a I guess a question I'm curious as to what if any power the Massachusetts historical commission has on this because the you

know my reading of this restriction is such that the city has taken on responsibility which they've obviously been derel in uh as far as maintaining it but it also has Clauses that uh they're entitled to inspect this PR premise and I would assume that uh if if there's a a clause for inspection that there would be some sort of potential outcome from those inspections and you know maybe that's something that that's

worth digging into a little more uh to help push the proper maintenance of of the building sorry I'm just driving this now thank you thank you John uh Ashley um as this time as the proposal stands um I oppose it being that the drill Hall is part of the proposal um and I I think we've all agreed here that that's um pretty significant um so on that as well as the restrictions um but in the same

token you know the city is to maintain it so if we're going to follow restriction number three then we should also follow the rest of them as well um I think putting a pause on it not necessarily throwing this out as an option um but putting a pause on it would possibly be beneficial and can create more um interest in ideas getting thrown around but I also think we need

to hold the city accountable um so as far as the pause goes and all the ideas and the surveys and and all of that I think there needs to be deadlines um to be to in order to hold them accountable um I think that's it thank you um and um I agree I and my stance on on it I do oppose the sale as well as it stands I'm echoing a lot of what everyone has

said um and I do agree that the sale should be or this outcome should be put on pause I do agree with with what Rick said um that you know maybe the Parks Board is not not the right entity that should be managing this building that if there's another entity in the city that can um head this up if they need to create a subcommittee with appropriate stakeholders in place that can you know

they're the ones that can set aside the time to um apply for Grants echoing what Kanye said with a feasibility with a um uh structural assessment with um basically a historic structure report uh basically for the whole in a code uh code survey on the building um and with that feasibility study will come options uh it'll say whether or not we'll be successful as uh if it's for Arts and Cultural if it's

going to be for housing or combination a mixed use structure um you know that's that will come out with the appropriate study St and right now we're the city's running on something that's 8 years old um a study that was done 8 years ago and you the market has changed um but and I do agree with the request for emergency funding uh from the CP from the CPC uh for the building envelope um

because that will affect everything that's on the inside um so you know it it would also mean the parks or whomever the city to stop using the building for storage U because that does have a reparable harm on the historic uh uh fabric within the building um you know heav forbid that you know something gets damaged or completely destroyed because of you know what's going in there I mean there

are lamposts there are yes building skylights that should not be in there just on just laying around so um you know this is not a storage facility um so but that and in the mes Hall that picture M I don't know if you guys noticed to the left if you bring it up let me bring that crazy I have there we go um let's try that one rck how many boxes would

you say can you can you get any a zoom hold on oh the light fixtures yes yeah there's how many light fixtur oh you can s of see the box right oh you right here right there and it extends further the whole wall yeah and it's deep there's a lot so they're using it for there's Street lamps in there there are skylights I think from the library in there and and

that will that can have harm on the building um and so that's where I'm at with with my opinion with with regard to the sale as it stands um I believe it is in very shortsighted um with regard to what else is going on in Fall River um we have a lot of active projects going on with between the Route 79 with downtown uh with Mill rehabs left and right we have um you there's I

think Now's the Time especially for downtown that is front and center what you drive into when you're coming over the Braga um and you we want to have a viable downtown with businesses with uh housing is a big component of that but um you I don't think it's at the sacrificing a building like this uh to be completely cut off from public use for just housing um so so we have a number of points here

that uh are all on board I believe the consensus is to pause the sale um and then the consensus also is for a board to be respons responsible a different board to be responsible um to go after um any grants for for structural reports um okay and we have um I do like your your uh ashy your point of also holding holding the city accountable so that would also be on that whatever that committee happens to

be um to set those deadlines of those expectations of and I don't know what they should be but I think they should exist at least yeah right and as I said the mass historical commission and I'm in National Park Service for that matter they always come out with different um uh uh Grant options uh opportunities for for studies like this um and you know if we are in our board too if we're able to proceed

uh with our cert certified local government application um so once I have that submitted to the state that seems to be a fairly simple process um that opens this up to our committee and the city for that matter uh for more competitive grants that are set aside for clgs um and that's all administered by the historical commission um and this is a prime example of what it can be used for um so

okay anything else uh did I miss anything um and Elizabeth you have everything typed out for everything and I have my notes too so um she's like oh no okay um so all right so we're opposing the sale as it stands we um a separate committee uh to oversee it um we are all in agreement for emergency funds to repair and the exterior the envelope of the building okay um and uh honestly

I think City buildings should be a priority for CBC funding cuz they're they usually especially public buildings absolutely you know that are open to the public I don't know you think the CPC well there not unfortunately there was not a lot of money this year with the CPC the uh State money has become non-existent this month uh this year so yeah yeah and and uh some of the so so it's it's short it's short money this

year well they bonded for other types of um bonding is uh you got to be cautious with bonding in that if if the city should decide to eliminate the CPA what do you do with all of these money so uh if if you don't have that backup money in your account to cover what do you do with those bonds how do they get paid so you got to be careful not the bond beyond what you perceive

could be a limit and and it and you don't know when or if someone decides to eliminate the CPA you know get a vote on that and it gets eliminated so so the state money has grinded down to very very little but the city still has funds available yes one and a half% 1 and a half% well with everybody's property values increased that's true there's got to be a good amount of money coming in like

what was give us an example of what the total was for more or less this P it's it like what what came in like a million over yeah over a million yes but but some is already set aside for past uh bonding that we've done so we still have three four five years on some of those bonds uh so maybe there's a I don't know I don't know what the figures are

what draws per year what is the draw from CPA funding like what is you probably you could probably be in a million four million5 available somewhere in the neighborhood and so the state is no longer well this year the funding has been really cut back it's we're being told that it's being cut back and and the projections too don't also don't take into consideration you know in two year uh

well two three years the land for 79 will come on assumingly would would come online um and be sold and developed so you know in the next 10 years we'll have uh additional buildings that would be taxed probably at a higher rate because it's all new construction um and that's additional money is going into the uh that the CPC can pull okay um and all the other countless projects that are under rehab um you know think

of the Flint Mill in in particular that's 400 apartments in one building um so okay um all right so CPC what else did I am I missing anything for the letter that I'll draft up do we want to talk about like ideal use for the building or we skip past that for now yeah it's endless Prat until right you know that the study is done exactly yeah um and um

in terms of in terms of a study um because the one was done and you said it was you think it was very cited well it was one person and um some of the things if if you review it it just seems like think it was very purposeful okay that's my opinion on reading it okay um and that would also go through an RFP process too anyways and it should oh yeah absolutely and it

shouldn't just be one opinion and it was done eight years ago so the face of the city has changed dramatically in eight years and in another eight years it's going to again change dramatically I mean if you're going to have a repair done are you only going to get one estimate right yeah it's it's shortsighted exactly okay do we have any other comments do we have enough to form a letter to city

council I think so okay yeah do you want a motion on that um a tough motion that's a tough motion um so try and bullet points well just um do you want to get into that depth or do you want to just uh make a motion that the uh that the historic Council of commission uh is voted to maintain ownership of the building at this time and and then maybe in in the in the

letter just a few of these dat these data points you know but just make the the letter a motion that the letter states that the historic commission at this voted to maintain ownership of the building and then just add to that letter these points so so make that in a formable motion it would be so a motion it would be to pause the sale that the city maintain ownership of the building with

the following bullet points of um creating a separate or passing it over to a separate Comm uh uh commission or committee whomever um that can reasons for our voting would be you can list those items all right it's pretty it's it's pretty uh basic yep we're not going into very detailed things but yes okay all right so is that does that make sense so a motion to so it would be to

maintain um the letter will be to maintain the city ownership of the building and then go over the points that we have

butiedge but that would come that would come out with a feasibility study okay all right I have all the vot points so okay so we'll we'll make that into a motion okay I'll second that okay so a motion by Rick and a second by Ashley um for that letter all right um roll call vote please Elizabeth yes Joyce Yes Rick Mancini yes Jo uh Connie yes John yes Ashley yes and Jason Bard and Rocky yes

right thank you very much so I will draft that um and yeah we'll go from there if there's any um edits and so forth we'll but um so their their meeting is on December 12th I believe I have to have the letter in by let's just say safe um by next Thursday to be safe um so that would will be December 7th um all right thank you um so

the our next meeting is going to be held on Tuesday December 19th 2023 um it is 7:09 p.m may I get a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn second all right I have motion by John second by Rick uh roll call Elizabeth yes Joyce Yes Rick yes Connie yes John yes Ashley yes and Jason Bard and Rocky yes right thank you very much everyone good good meeting good meeting yes