11.4.24 Historical Commission

all right thank you uh good evening everyone uh thank you for joining tonight um this is a special meeting of the Fall River historical commission uh which is being held uh virtually via Zoom it is uh Monday November 4th 2024 the time is 6:04 p.m. um and again this is being recorded via zoom and will be posted on to Fall River government uh TV's uh website for a reference afterwards uh pursuant to the open

meeting law and any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible um all right so because we're on a virtual um meeting if I can get a rur call uh Connie

Su uh present Elizabeth dblock present Joyce Rodricks Joyce you're

muted Jo if you can unmute I'll come back to you in a minute uh Ashley Duna present John Lima present Rick manini yes present on Zoom Jason bardar Rocky present via Zoom um Joyce if you can raise your hand to acknowledge that you're present because you are muted right right now hold on one second Joy can you unmute your camera um if you go to bottom left corner

yep Jo help about this can you raise your hand that you are present thank you um but we will come back to you uh if you can figure out how to unmute yourself that would be I'll try that again there you go there we go there you go okay don't unmute yourself Joyce I am present thank you all right so we have um everyone is attending we do not have any open

seats um thank you everyone um the first item on the agenda is to review um we had tabled on October 15th 2024 um to review and approve the minutes from September 17th 2024 will sent those around on the email I'll make a motion to approve I'll second that motion thank you all right I have a motion by Ashley seconded by Rick uh roll call vote please Connie yes Elizabeth yes Joyce yes

Ashley yes John Yes Rick yes and Jason buard and Iraqi yes thank you um item number two is to review and approve the minutes from October 15th 2024 I'll make a motion to approve I'll second that motion all right I have to um approve the minutes from October 15th uh motion made by Connie seconded by Rick Roll Call vote Connie yes Elizabeth yes Joyce yes Ashley yes John Yes Rick yes and Jason

bashard and Rocky yes right thank you everyone um do we have any citizens input regarding tonight's meeting or anything for that matter okay um we do not have any notices of intent to demolish uh we also do not have any correspondences um item number three under new business is a um regarding 710 High Street this is the John Edwin Cornell house in Highland's local historic district um this is a request

for a new certificate of appropriateness regarding the Reconstruction of the front covered porch and the construction of a side secondary staircase the original uh certificate of appropriateness was approved for the rebuilding of the porch roof on April 16th 2024 um there have been subsequent changes to the um to the Reconstruction of the porch itself um and there will be a change to the size um but we do have

the property owner as um present and his uh contractor if you can introduce yourselves and just to um also uh State how you are presenting if you're uh attending via Zoom or uh present and so forth thank you Jason uh my name is Pedro Vargas property owner of uh 710 High Street um and I'm attending via Zoom this evening and uh you have your contractor Darwin yes Darwin yes I'm over

here you introduce yourself just Darwin um and thank you absolutely yeah hi my name is Darwin I'm the contractor in ped's house so I see I saw a lot of people for you the last time yes um so if you can explain um regarding the porch because it's not uh we did um photos were sent to the uh the board so the um everyone is aware that the porch is actually not on the house

anymore um and what the plan is for the rebuilding of the porch yeah basically the last perit we get with the hunter uh it is per is supposed to be remodeling the the deck and the porch so but when we start to work I see a lot of it's not on columns it's not on support er a lot of good damage so it's for my sake for my people's work and for

basically for the horners of the property safety so we take the decision when the horners together and take it down because it's not a support it's really really dangerous and the last time when you are over there you can see too okay um patri do you have um U yes um so I'd like to add to that um yes so uh as Dar mentioned yes the um uh it was originally intended to uh we were going

to repair um ballister rails uh decking uh on the porch but as we started work it just uh it it was just uh very rotted wood uh to our surprise there were no like U posts um columns everything was just on on the ground um uh there were no like concrete um I'm not a contractor but um I guess the the posts you need to dig at least four four feet down you

know for for the frost line and stuff like that so there was none of that existing uh so just sitting on on on the dirt Flor so I think that's what originally caused uh all the wood the majority of the wood to rot out um as a matter of fact just today I I finish um just filling up a 30 yard dumpster uh everything had to be demolished and again uh like Darwin stated it was a

safety concern um you know luckily no one got hurt um me being being here with my family and having get togethers on the front porch and it it was a very U dangerous situation and for safety reason we ended up taking it all the way down so I have no no porch at the moment so okay um and I I think it was also evident too because the the way that the

corner was sagging yes down um okay so it wasn't resting on any type of an no concrete I guess yeah um the nothing footings yeah no footings at all that's it that's word no footings correct okay um and um I'm trying to think so The Proposal that so the drawing that you sent over um and I will admit it's a little confusing to look at so from my gathering is that the the porch did

project from the house if you're looking at the front of the house to the left it had that sweep around that curve to the side so that side is going to be eliminated or that sweep is going to be eliminated and it's going to run just to the edge of the house instead that that is correct yes I'm actually pulling up the drawing right now so yes we would um we would eliminate yeah the draw the

the swing like you mentioned Jason so it would just go towards the corner of that house from left to right um okay um actually let me see I can get the drawing hold up um so we have that on the screen um let's see one moment I'm just going to pull up the drawing all right can everyone see that yes yes I can see that okay so um if you're over on the left hand side where

the cursor is so that is so that's how I'm reading this is the and Pedro please jump in um if I'm missing something so the edge of the house is here the sweep used to go further out so um it's just going to end and this is just a hip um a hip roof yes um okay so the shed of the the roof is is here the corner and then this is this will run

from the house down to the porch as it had been before correct covered the POR yeah with the roof um and then regarding the Gable um the little Gable over the entrance to the porch um so that will remain the same it'll be a flat uh Gable with um the shingles that were there and so forth like the the the original schematic I guess you can put it put it

that way um will be retained this is just showing the framing that's correct yes that's my understanding and darn feel free to jump in but yeah it was I I think the only thing we eliminated was just a swing um on the left side and just made it you know just with heading at the corner of the house yes that's the only change made a little bit smaller um so and the house uh so the

porch that was there before it didn't have so the the shingled wall that was on the exterior that that ran right down to the ground so there was no it didn't stop at say like where the flooring was or anything of that nature it um so there was no apron uh so to say like a or not apron um yeah apron or skirt I guess that wrapped around the head lattice was just shingle straight down

to the ground I believe um so is that what is going to be maintained here on the front beneath the railings so underneath the railings my my thought was uh Darwin correct me if I'm wrong but maybe we could do the the sometime some kind of lattice work underneath the porch underneath the railings um yes we can do we can do this just uh this the reion we we can take

the the the decision for the FR you know so we can try to work with you guys together what is the best decision for the for the front of the porch but we can do this better okay yes I'm looking at the drawing it says wood sighting so um so the shingles okay so that'll be the shingles okay and then yeah because I'm looking at a photo of the house from

before the porch was worked on and the the um beneath the railing the shingles shingles yeah it was all shingles down to the ground okay so that so the bottom line is now Darwin you're GNA maintain the shingles I'm sorry can you repeat yeah Pedro was the shingles was I heard lattice and then I heard shingles so what are we gonna maintain oh Pedro say the L is the the

best idea I think that works too because we have the two house one in the house in the corner and one in the house I think in the left side so the same style so I think we can work with the Lars if that's okay um yes because again the house to the left and to the right have have the lattice work okay and this is just to prevent any future yeah rot

and so forth future rotting of the of the of the porch and I think the the the best yeah the the latest work would be that that maybe that plastic material I believe it's called um that doesn't rot out composite I'm sorry comp I'm sorry I think if you're gonna go with lattice on the bottom it needs to be um appropriate lattice not necessarily plastic lattice but maybe a um surface I'm sorry what right it should

be a paintable Sur so composite yes so I'm not sure what the house has to the left of it that you were referring to uh is there a picture of that or and also that house is not in the district is it to the house to the other side so the house to the right if you're staring if you're looking at the front of the house hold on let me pull up another photo once second

um that will be one can anyone see this photo yes of the house or no no okay one second one second one second just the sketch that's on oh I got it okay okay how about that yes all right so that house next door so this house next door um on High Street is not in the district but it is um it is this interestingly enough these two houses are identical more uh for the

most part they were both moved at the same time from um in the 80s so um you can see lce under here um one thing I would probably recommend though underneath wherever the columns are I would run the Shing if you want to just to have air flow underneath I my recommendation is to run the shingles say underneath the post these um these pillars that hold up the columns run that down straight um

straight down to the ground and then underneath where the railings are that would be appropriate I think if you were to do lattice um like a wood lattice or composite it should be paintable um and that would allow and you have the side too that would allow some air flow um so it's similar to what is going on next door they have the lattice here under the railings but then they have probably

you know can't tell with a shrub but I I believe it's either a brick or something but um you know for this particular house um but for this one since it was shingled all the way down to the ground to maintain that you know that feature that's my recommendation I don't know if anyone has anything any differing opinions on that I think you're right on target I think you're on target okay um so then and

then Pedro the railings that will be that you have um on the drawing so those will be um you sent over a photo showing uh uh pressure treated wood so that will be correct that'll be pressure treated for the columns and then this the railings will be wood as well yes pressure okay um so I wasn't I'm not um when I hear pressure traded wood and I know they can be painted I just have to

figure out like how how long and Rick I think you said um how long they they usually leave person treated alone for about a year a year a year okayy Ashley what do you do with your business you wait a year or so you got to a year yeah it needs to dry out the stuff they use now the wood just stays wet for so long right that um yeah dryer and then you can paint it

something like that there another wood that could be instead of pressure treated Ashley do you know of one like a compos um so technically on the railings you don't need pressure treated um typically you want pressure treated if it's uh in ground contact so for your columns you do um you could honestly could use whatever um Pine or something like that but for these coln they're not resting

the materal we have before it is the material we have before you can see the box for colums it is fine the which one again the you see the the boxes for cover the columns that's supposed to be this columns but it is the material is before oh okay okay so the ballister of pine yeah yeah the ball of pine yep and and for the column so that's just a column wrap essentially so you're going

to have your like 4x4 your 6x6 inside of that um so you you're not actually seeing the actual column so the pressure treated will be inside and then you kind of wrap it with a trim around it which Jason do you have that picture that can you show it and there's I have the photo yeah and there's a little interfer I'm not sure where that's coming from um before you move the

picture I just continue on but before you get rid of the picture I just want to show something on the front go continue with your continue with your do you want me to go back to the drawing uh no I I I just want to right where your hand is hold it right there you see that white U sort of facial board yeah that that doesn't belong there what the the the existing and

you'll notice even on the other homes that those shingles go above the roof line and then they just put a small piece of trim in there so that facial board that white facial board doesn't belong that was that was put on a few months ago when they started to repair the roof okay okay you could sort of let me see you could sort of see it on the house

next door as an example there is a tree where see how the shingles run to the edge is that what you're talking about Rick yes exactly okay so you can do yeah so it should the roof should project just a little bit over some trim much like the house next door out something on top yeah so it'll be you have the shingles and then you have the like some sort of a CR building and

then the roofing runs right up to the edge y yeah okay um yeah so it should yeah as Rick said it shouldn't be flat like this um all right so let me find one second let me pull up the while you're pulling it up Jason just a side note Darwin I noticed on your drawings um your stairs are 11 in um I know that's not in our perview but that

they can't be any higher than seven in no no the the step is 11 the high is seven in okay okay the Riser is seven and then the is okay all right let me Riser is seven okay thanks Ashley um all right let me find the what was I looking for sorry oh the um the the the drawing you mean the post the the wood post oh that's right the PO picture of a post

okay I'm just wondering at this point what is the timeline on this work do we have a new timeline uh we will get to that in a moment um we'll get to that in a moment let's um because I um just want to review the material first if that's okay um since we're on that topic so Pedro the so the pressure treated so this will run into the ground P like it'll be wrapped

with as Ashley had pointed out just um some sort of wood material that you can that would be painted and so forth that's that's correct yes in Darwin stated the materials is is uh pressure treated and and and pine as well Darwin Pine uh no this is all pressure treated oh this is all pressure that's treat as 6x6 Po in the mdle and they cover with one by4 pieces all

around uh I know we have a a small detail before so but they have this detail yeah right right there in the corner yeah include yes okay so we can include in the post too okay um so you want this um recess panel on the post as well to show yeah okay um does anyone have any questions on that they're just they curious why would you use the trim why would you use pressure

treated if if if the post is going to be covered or trimmed out why would we continue to use pressure treat on the exterior yeah so um I'm do the recommendation the owners of the of the properties you know so just it's one option I can give him uh the other option is like we have before the last por is p on the miror in cover like with pine and and the box so

but I need to give in couple options and you guys too you can see uh options we can do you know I think you can box it out um if if you get rid of this like shadow box style kind of thing because you can see the post inside there um which you can't paint yet um so instead of the corner boards and you just kind of use like a

like a panel like a I don't know a 1 by 12 maybe or something depending on how big that column is um and you can still get it'll it'll it'll be boxes but you can still far it out where the bottom is thicker like that um with a paintable surface so that you're not waiting for that interior um we we have we have before the bottom part is like a fouret high by two by 14

inch yeah so and the bottom part in the four feet and then on top we have 12 all around Okay so just for cover the post so what's the reasoning behind the the recess panel because aren't you trying to mimic what it originally looked like those are just flat Square columns that's s what was that originally on the porch they were just Square columns no recess paneling right

so wouldn't the flat like like you're saying Elizabeth wouldn't that suit the style of the home better right so the pre-existing didn't have that that bevel or that that recess um strip it just it was just a plain box and there's almost I don't know what to called it at the top it's not necessarily a capital for the column but it's that little trim right that's right here yeah uh like a color round cream is

on top in the bottom too so we can put at these two uh basically you can see the bottom to we have a piece of CR molding down basically this water yeah right there yeah so you would put this piece the the space back and then the collar up on top I guess for lack of a better term yeah yeah okay you're still going to do the double post right so would

both of them be structural or would it just be one you would probably need both it's like just just for detail because we don't have nothing po there anywhere right but for the new porch these need to be structural and they need to have a footage yeah exactly so does the is this one of the reason we take it down because it's not in support for all of this and the bottom part is

all damage so we know have like a concrete and the floor so just is just for detail not in columns not in support um Elizabeth so when those get done they should honestly both sit on one Sona tube you can put a SAA tube big enough that both your columns will sit on it it'll honestly probably be easier than one and then like a decorative you're better off just running them to the um to your footings

right so the footing will kind of sit in between the two and then yeah and they'll it'll it'll capture it they'll both land on it yeah okay yeah and because this is a a detail that was present on the house um you they having the paired columns like this um and when you get to the corner because this won't be rounded anymore it'll be squared off so you would need

the grouping over here the three so you know the the corner one and then the two projecting out so kind of mimicking this corner um which I think it's kind of hard to tell in the drawing but um so when you get to the proposed squared off Corner over here you would need the the grouping of three columns instead is this just being too picky but I would argue that the

rounded um corner on the porch that was a character defining feature of the house that's what made the house stand out so I would argue getting rid of that rounded order really changes the character of the house I agree Elizabeth and then you're also going to change the roof line by doing that yeah right um because I so when Rick and had gone out to look at the the the property

when the porch came off um and I think just for I'm not sure if it was just a matter of um replicating this curve and um and the cost associated with it um but you know using this house next door as an example because it doesn't have that that curve um and also too this house when it was moved in 198 8881 or so it didn't actually have a porch on it um

the porch was um you know circa 1981 82 somewhere around there um and um what do you call it so I trying to find a photo of what the porch would have looked like is because I think just because it was on the corner that's why the rounded porch was at or the rounded Corner was added um I have a photo I can send PED in can s away canpl better too okay yes I I

have the original photo too when the house was moved in 81 Jason so it did not have a porch so like you said that porch was added sometime after the house was moved right hence the the work was not up to code again it was just strange how there were no footings whatsoever yeah and the photo I the photo that I I'm remembering is the one where it it's showing it actually it's

interesting the house kind of tilted off the back of the truck when it was being backed into into place um and you could see the outline of where the porch was they had to removed the porch off the house to in order to move it because obviously it wouldn't have survived the move um but um and you can still see you can't really see in this photo but um if

you're if you were to go over to the house now look on the side you can see where the porch uh the original porch had had been with the um kind of like the ghost marks on the on the yeah you can kind of see the shadow outline no that's interesting I didn't realize that the porch was only from the 80s right I would definitely be interested in seeing what it looked like originally yeah it's

um I don't know what photos exist um that are accessible now that show this neighbor it was a whole neighborhood of houses that were moved um in 1981 um so and this is I think the only one the only one in the historic in the 40c district that was part of that um that move um so um okay so we have the other option too you might want to mention

Pedro and Jason is the addition of the side porch and of having that that side door uh on French street that looks like was an add-on at time and and trying to get uh egress door to the ground uh the stairs really should be turned to the nor the house so that might interfere with this portion of the also so reason getting rid of that curve right um so it's uh oh let me see

if I can get another I don't have another photo to show but let me see if can find um no I don't have another photo to show um so the side porch I had sent you a picture that was taken when the 4 was it's I sent it to your email all right it was taken when the 4 was being established yep it's a clearer picture maybe that'll help I don't know

oh so the view still has um the porch still attached if you want to look it up on street view is it on street view okay Connie the photo that you sent thank you that shows from the driveway side we're looking at the on the French French Street side um oh sorry about that oh no that's okay um and I think the image that's available on the um the Form B is

hard to tell because of the amount of trees that are on that side so one moment while we're doing this I'm going to find the um the street view and I'll share my screen for that I have a picture Jason on my computer as well of French Street side with the side entrance okay um I'm actually just there now um so I mean it's still covered in trees but um let's see if this will one second

I know I have like a 24 this side but I can't find it now all right can everyone see that yes okay again this is not the greatest photo because of the trees but um yeah um goodness so there's a door so that door goes to the porch yeah yeah there's a door over here that has no staircase so right one of the reasonings for the new porch to stop on the corner and not wrap around

to this whole side um was one of the proposals for that Rick and I had discussed was that the platform to come out because of because of how steep the grade is you can't really tell in this photo um on the street view because of the angle but it is quite steep um and to run it to the street there's just not enough room to have a an adequate Siz platform so one thing that Rick had

proposed was to have the platform come out and then the staircase run along the bay um it's a diagonal Bay um and then so it can meet with a potential new walkway over here I think that's what Rick was talking about right um and that way it runs into the incline of the slope of the Hill earlier and it limits the amount of um you know material material used if he were to run it down

the side over here it's way too steep um to it'll come way too close to the property line and then the other option too if it were to run down slope say like to a platform and then run to the wrap around the corner the back corner of the house it's going to now block his basement door that's how actually he's accessing the property now the the tremendous amount of steps that are

required it's not it's not very practical so right and the um the utilities over here that's shown this is from 2012 so the utilities that are here they've actually been moved uh further towards the front of the house um so that's not at present anymore but um so that's part of the reason to remove this Edge because it would interfere with the porch or I guess the the porch

but um and I too from just a cost standpoint of having to mimic this whole curve um Pedro jump in if if I'm if I'm you're absolutely correct uh Jason I I have a better picture if you allow me to share my screen without yeah if you wantan to um if you uh I can all right so I'm pause or like let me just stop my share there we go so you can share now okay

did we lose John no there's here here oh this is excellent okay everyone can see that yes great than yeah this is much better so that's the door okay and if you're looking at that you can see the necessary plat you can see where that door was after thought that was not the original door you see how it does not line up with the Window Up Above Etc and then uh the the

uh if you put a small you put a platform up there it's got to be large enough so that you can come out and turn safely uh and if the stairs went to the left they would protrude really well beyond the building again that land keeps sliding down if you put another platform corner and pushed the stairwell it would inter it looks like it I didn't measure it exactly but by

looking at it looks like it would interfere with the exit of the basement so it it really you're only option is to turn the stairs and push them out to the right around Bay the other thing is that would also allow you to push the deck out enough to create a platform in order to exit get in the door and out the door so it's it's like a one of the of you

know pliable options here uh I give a ped two options actually three options what exactly we can work of course we don't have the meurs ready but because we need to figure out what exactly you recommend but uh perro can you show the photos I can S I sent you before actually Jason do you have those one please there's three options so second

so here's the first one um so and this this is showing is this your proposal for the for the side in this in the shape and right obviously we would think yeah we would put the stairs on the right side okay okay um right up against the bay window you mean yes okay um so one thing I noticed it's kind of when you zoom in it's a little hard to tell but so this railing

has the balls um attached on the outside and that's more that's more appropriate for like a I mean it's it's not historically in keeping um so anything that you put there uh our recommendation um and speaking on behalf of the board would be to mimic the railing system that you have on the front porch um so Square balls um that don't uh they're not projected or at least attached to

the exterior of the rail and the base rail um but set within so you have the um the handrail sits on top and then you have another um for lack of a better term the um you know the what is it called the uh the base MH support um so that's what I would recommend for for the front and or for the side and then same thing like if it's um you

know are you are you looking to do the pressure treated in this case yes it would be pressure treated and will you be painting this after after a year yes I would be the front and in the side fors as well as hopefully the the entire house sure okay um so that's the first one the second one let me pull that up on that hand on the balls and the handrail height you're

G to be in keeping with the height of the front porch that's correct yeah rest the same the same St we go to the front you know just propos for this an idea what exactly we that the Pol like it but the style and the details we have in the front so we continue when with the same for the back SP through the other one sorry one second so the other option was so Pedro what

is this is also for so would you are you considering putting a full deck on the side of the house um I mean it would be good like a platform large enough you know that I may if I could put chairs you know maybe maybe a little dining table yeah with an umbrella it would be good so so off the top of my head um my only con concerns with that would be um what

the setback is from the side street um and how far that deck has to how far out that deck can go towards the street um that I'm not sure what the setbacks are over there um if if we start right in the corner right in the corner to the the house we have like a 12 by a basically longer plus the stairs of course um and then we would we would

also need um depending on the proposal we would need measurements to the the area um uh some sort of a drawing that shows it on the house so we have an idea of what we're looking at in terms of um you know the scale um but I would check with the building department too to see what the setbacks are um are you on do you know what the set would be for

that deck from that from French Street who are you asking Ashley if she knows what the set box are in the street yeah yeah I think 10 yeah that's what I think to 10 So you you're you wouldn't be able to come off the building more than take a measurement from the sidewalk to the building that's only what maybe 14 14 15 feet so you you have to be sidewalk to the deck and I concure

with Ash what I was telling Jason earlier it's a generally a 10 foot that's that that's a code that's a right there's always variances but that's not um Pedro just uh and just throwing this out there too one other possible option um and it's a little bit of a larger It's a larger option um because your driveways on the other side of the house um and it is it is determined that that door

that's there now was added um it doesn't line up with the window directly above it um architecturally they should be lining up with that with that line um so I don't know what your what Your setup is internally in I'm the kitchen area in the back but one option too is if you wanted to seal up that door replace with a window move it to the opposite side of the house we have reviewed projects like

that um where you know the deck is off to the side on the other side of the house um we would have to review it anyways because it is seen from the street but if you were to add the door on the other side so then you have you have access to the yard the driveway and you can probably put in a larger deck without the necessary you know the you know

having to worry about a setback of 10t um you know that's it's larger actually that that that's a good idea I just didn't know I had that option to close off that block it off or is the option to put a window to or just I can block it off or um I mean I would probably I mean yeah I would recommend keeping a window and with the one upstairs just to keep the

Aesthetics of the building one house that did do that um although it was I don't know if we I don't think we actually I don't think how this happened um oh because it was behind the fence um that was the the house on further up High Street uh 528 I think that um they had closed up well we did review them closing up one of the doors off the driveway um and

um so we did review that and now it's just a window but um if it's as long as it's you know the frame the the the style is keeping to the house um you know there's I don't my opinion I don't have an issue with you know if you wanted to close up the door and turn it window and then move the door to the opposite side off the driveway so at least then it

gives you more space if you want to have a deck off the driveway um you know that's me I don't know if anyone else Connie or Elizabeth or anyone else on the board I actually like that idea because what I'm looking at here I think this would be an i the side of the house because we're getting really big it's not even a porch now it's a deck so it's

it's I think it would just it just doesn't to me blow design of the home and so I do think on the opposite side makes more sense for you Pedro living there yes coming in with GR or whatever it may be to be on the driveway side versus um you know that side of the house and honestly I think find a window that's um you know keeping in size of the others I actually

think because that's the south side of the house I think bring you a lot of light into the home versus just making it a solid wall thank you Connie I'd like that idea as well so I can discuss with marwin um but I I didn't know that that was an option for me so I i' like think about that and maybe yeah just put a window there and concentrate on the front porch for now

again I have the second egis which is down in the basement for now so yeah I think right now the priority is getting your your front porch reconstructed um and then if you have um you know the other thing too if there's an existing window window that's on the back area of the house off the driveway um you know that that can be the where the door where a new door could go and a

deck off the back um and um you know I think this allows you it older homes are you know they there especially in the back there's aot a lot more flexibility in terms of um you know making modifications if necessary um and given the location of the property too right on the street corner um on the incline that's there now um you know I think you know if you look at it from

the the driveway side um you know I think that give you some more options um and so um but yeah so I think the the priority right now is to get the front porch um the design of the front porch approved um and so that way we can get you your certificate so you can start getting that under underway um so so why don't we do if um so when we so this was for

the front porch and then the side porch so let's focus on the front porch right now um does anyone have any questions regarding front porch um I know we're you're um I know there are some concerns over the squared off Corner versus a rounded Corner yeah I mean originally I had no idea that addition but I would be interested seeing the original porch of the house I'm having a real hard time uh

hearing I don't there seems to be like interference and mu yeah I'm not sure um does somebody have like a speaker phone on Darwin out of curiosity are you on your phone oh yes I'm over here I'm wondering if that might be because I think everyone else is on their um everyone else is on their laptop I'm not sure where the interference is coming from I don't hear

it now does anyone hear it now no no no all right not sure where that's coming from um so regarding the curved um and the house next door does have the it's squared off using that as an example um and and you could sort and you can see too with the house next door what ultimately this porch would the roof land would look like um can bring that back up if

necessary all right so you can kind of get the idea of what the porch will look like um with the Gable as with that with that level of trim the molding with the squirt off Corner running to the edge of the house um pedre you're not changing anything before I forget you're not changing the the depth of the porch that's staying the same yeah it's staying the same correct the the size of the same okay

yes then the same for the rail the same details for the B the space for the stage stage so we we stay with the same mten okay what are the spindles again what are you using for spindles uh use by two square one square pressure treated right or pine um as ashy indicated you don't have to use the pressure treated on the balls you can just use plain whatever material

as long as it's wood and paintable that way you can have that painted right away same thing with the handrail um yeah um yeah and then if you go with huh what was that Connie oh because it's not touching dirt it doesn't have to be de pressure treated right and it can be painted right away which would be nice and if they wanted to go with the pressure treated for the columns they

just you know they can wrap it as U Ashley mentioned they can wrap it with um you know just a a just uh what do you want to call like a just a standard Pine Wood standard yeah plank that comp or a composite yeah okay um and then the decking I believe would be um I mean what's here what's what was there um was yeah um I mean but if you're able to maintain

that you know that finish I suppose where the floorboards come straight out like that um because that's you know even like on any other house uh in the neighborhood they um they have that it's not finished off it's just you know the floorboards run right to the edge um and then the front steps um because the ones that were there didn't have any details so you're proposing on putting um you know obviously the wood

handrail the wood spindles and then for a post at the bottom would that just be a very simple square square um mule post at the at the base yeah the the new p is in the bottom I think we can attach the reing right in the box with do for the pose for the for the porch okay each side because we need to uh left and right yeah yeah and just the

the same thing I would mimic the as long as you're able to mimic the square um the square balls um the yeah basically yeah what's the product being used for the decking or the board I'm talking with Pedro I know ped is with me uh it is a composite something composite boards what's that composite boards yeah composite yeah board the floorboards they're not um they're not TR The Originals would have been first

but I'm sure you're not going to buy fur that's so expensive today you know there's the IP hardwood decking that really looks great too yeah that's one before too okay what is our design guidelines um recommend for checking I don't have it in front of me I apologize um I looked at it I think um we are allowed composits Connie so yes and I did look at the um secretary Secretary of the Interior

standards there was a publication from 2015 about pressure treated wood um and it didn't seem to uh uh prohibit pressure treated wood as long as it's replicating the detail that was there um so if they were like tongue and groove floorboards like that type of a situation then I don't know if you would use but that that's um that's the recommendations from from that from the Secretary of the Interior standards

um but it seemed that pressure tree if if that was to be utilized but composite I yeah I'm familiar with the IP um Cony that you were mentioning the composite decking and it it it's for a front porch or at least uh for any type of exterior I'm not recommending it I was just making because I don't know I personally wouldn't put pressure treated wood as a decking um I have replaced my decking

with so you know but I'm one of those people that would uh and so and I just feel like f last forever you know I've the design guidelines allow yeah I'd be okay with yeah does allow for um composite um I was looking up to see what the material was if there was anything regarding um like I had a question more on the pressure treated wood earlier but um I think exterior wood um let's see

Pedro what were you thinking of using um composite for the flooring so in the design guidelines it says um Decay resistant Woods includes Cedar mahogany Redwood air dried pressure treated Southern yellow pine um but other pressure treated wood is for for framing members only um but is indicated air dried for if it's pressure treated um and then let's see but I would I would uh steer away

from whatever that plastic material is what is it called I want to say it's like TS or Treads or something like that that's yeah no um that's um that's not compa a um let's see um I know a house on Handover just they redid their front por and they used fur so I don't know if um if if that's completely out of the picture um I don't know if it's because it's cost

prohibit or it is cost cost yes okay I mean because you're going now with a smaller porch you're not wrapping around so that is saving true um I'm not seeing

yeah nothing with vinyl or anything of that nature um so as long as it's uh either a stainable or paintable surface is recommended um for the front port for the flooring of the front porch and they're also saying I think you said Jason that only treated wood FL framing is that yes um so it's for if you're using if you're using pressure treated for any um anything other than

framing it has to be air dried uh yellow it recommends yellow pine um and then everything else for pressure treated is for structural purposes so so like in the case of the columns here they would just get wrapped up um so that's those this will go right down to the ground the air drying is is so that you can paint right away right that's what happens if you have if your pressure treated

material you can generally paint right over it and and yellow pine good luck if you buy that you think fur is expensive try and buy yellow pine um you'll only be able to find kill Dry Kill dry sorry oh really okay um so that's what I'm oh and de yeah it doesn't say anything I can't find specific language on decking but um at a you know just kind of flipping through that's what at least I getting

woodwork um and Patra I did give you a copy of the design guidelines I believe too so yes yep okay um all right so regarding okay so now the is everyone okay with the um the new layout of front porch so we're removing that that extension I think we're I think everyone's on board with that yes thank you right and then in terms of the curve is everyone on board without doing the

curve and just squaring it off so it's similar to the house next door I think so if it wasn't on the original then it was an addition then why are we going to fight about it Connie you were saying no I'm confused now what was the first thing you said I thought was the layout you meant eliminating theur oh yeah so so the the original Port the porch that was removed extended past the

house and did that sweep around so the sweep is going to be omitted and that side was like a whole porch area on the side of the house so that's being omitted so it's just going to be on the stly on the front I understand that and I'm okay with that just it being a front porch only without the wrap around but the first thing you said I think everybody's okay with the layout I

thought that's what you were referring to yes when you say layout what are you referring to I'm really confused the yeah so when I when I refer to the layout just the um just basically just referring it to just the being as a front porch only and not wrapping over to the side oh okay yeah okay um and anyone have everyone I think everyone was on board being squared off and not wrapped or

curved okay a question about the roof of the porch so is it going to maintain the same slope as it used to or or is it going to be a flatter pitch I believe they're they're maintaining based on the drawing they're maintaining the same pitch okay yeah that that's correct yeah um okay and then um bring up the drawing sorry we'll go back to that sorry um and then all

right so the pitch is staying the same we're going to add the the Gable trim um and so the owner wants to uh put in the lattice so Pedro are you okay with the idea of having the shingles so the the peers that hold up the columns um having the shingle run down yes to the ground because on the drawing it shows on the drawing it shows wood siding over the whole base but you would

prefer to have some sort of a lattice area underneath the railing so at least then there's some air flow going underneath and it prevents any future rot that's correct okay can I ask another question since you have the drawing up so do the rails are the rails to be on one section between the first they're not going to be over oh I see we talking about that's a good catch thank you um they should

extend thank you Connie that's one of my notes that rails should extend to meet to meet the existing the railing and the spindles extend across the full front and not just half of the front as it's shown on this drawing yeah thank you I got this that was one of my notes thank you that's okay so I'm make a note of that all right I'm a little confused by the drawing because when I look at the

front of the house and the the two upstairs Windows it looks like they're aligning with a different part of the house they should be um I guess I'm I'm confused so there's the set of columns under the front pedim and then there's another double set of columns but the way the porch was that's where it ended and turned the corner and then now I'm seeing another set of columns all the way to the left

so is the spacing of the columns changing from oh I okay I I see what you're saying so um based on so the the Rick can he so what yeah the windows so this drawing is not obviously to SC well not to scale but the so the windows um this window on the right rests right above the Gable and then this this one um this one over here on the left

should be a little further down but um so Rick do you think span so this is It's a he's got a 12 foot Span in there and that porch is is larger than 12 feet well now I'm wondering Pedro is this is this 12 feet is this 12 foot span from the port from the um column here over is this to the corner is this to the to the new Corner no that's not the

corner the one all the way to the left will be Corner yeah I'm looking it is a little confusing all right let me see if I can pull one second yeah is there where you could put it side by side the drawing versus a picture of the front uh I don't know if I can do that one second let me see um just going to share the whole thing does this make sense uh let me hold

the where if you pull have it like exactly centered yeah I mean I don't know if this is helping at all or if I'm making matters worse um do you have a direct front view no I do not um yeah let me P Street View sorry let me do that one the picture that I sent you from the that is from the oh there you go there we go

okay all right so you just see the The Columns framing the front entry and then it's only one other set of columns before you turn the corner and then it kind of frames that downstairs window but in the drawing it's where where's the window supposed to be on the drawing just trying to orient myself right so I think actually so Pedro um can you if you have the the the paired

columns here and then you have two paired the porch well technically this is where the corner is right here can you end you don't need the this you wouldn't need this second set of columns here in the drawing so this would be the corner and you would have you know the the the three so there's the there's a two pair columns there's one right behind it so there's three columns here

in the corner so you would run here in the corner three columns and then maintain the same opening so yeah and the drawing is a little confusing so yeah that's and then so the corner the roof line would be a hip roof that would come down diagonally from the side of the house or would it just be like a shed extending straight out no it would be a oh no

that's a bad one um it would be it would be a shed sorry I know we're like doing street view here it would be a shed like this not a shed I'm sorry okay so it kind of cuts into the facade a little bit correct yeah um all right so Pedro one thing I would do because uh the building department is going to need drawings so this would have this drawing would need to get updated yes

um and um because yeah it is a little confusing especially when we in this drawing it looks like this is the corner so you would have to eliminate this and um yes yep okay um and then and then the side the new side over here would have the same railing system and then all right correct okay you know as we as we as we're going along here the the the drawing no no

discussions meant but those drawings are not very accurate um so what we're doing here as we're speaking is is we're all going on a lot of good faith here U so I would advise that Darwin really looks at this photo and maintains that same uh same existing detail when we get to the details uh they should be matching this existing profile uh that's that's very important the drawings mimic the profile of this photo

yes about the drawings the two columns you see right in the corner so we need to make three columns try to match the same style we have on the right so you can see the draw just one coln other column back to this column right so but we can put it three over there and three on the back side too H one on back side sorry so in the railing

railings is the sem High the same style in this corner too yes D like Ricki mentioned yeah we'll try to keep it as as much as uh as the look that we're seeing the house at the moment you you have to you got to main you know again we're going on good faith here yes a set of drawings like this would not normally be accepted but you know we're trying to work with and

as long as darwi can really maintain details uh that that's going to be a very very important factor correct um yes so regarding the with your so we could um in terms of a certificate of appropriateness we could make conditional that um it's approved with um once we receive new a new drawing that shows that accurately shows the the layout of the columns the the update to the lattice

um and you know the trim that's going to be put back onto the the Gable um and this is just for the front for the front porch so we can make we can you know we can issue the certificate once we've received an updated drawing um with the measurements and so forth yeah and if possible materials that would be used to yes because um yeah the building Department's going to need the materials

listed as well um and as we we we will do we need that too um like if if there's a way of like doing like a computerized SketchUp or something there's a program actually funnily enough called SketchUp um but like some sort of computerized draw uh drawing or rendering that shows how it will appear on the front of the house um but um you know yeah because I think especially

with the the full rebuild of the the porch I think the building Department's going to need something like that um just on their end um but aside from that um with the changes and so forth I don't don't have any I don't have any other questions per se um so we covered the railings going up to the porch the entrance steps um and Ashley thank you for correcting that

with the seven Ines the the Riser um and then the material um I think that's it does anyone have any questions other than that hi Jason I just uh just getting back to the side porch can you write it up also where I could put a window there um so let's if you wanted to seal that up so why don't we do I mean if you wanted to seal that up

um I mean I would recommend getting some plans uh an idea of what you want to do on the other side first and then we can because that back porch will have to be uh if you were to put it on the other side we'll have to review that because it is seen from the street um just using this as an example so like if it's back here um invisible we'll have to review

it um so we can lump that all together if you want um or if you if you are intent on sealing up the W the door now um does any anyone have any objections to that no no I have I don't but it would be like um the window would need to be size appropriate correct so similar to the size an appropriate appropriate window as well like to match the others

whatever it is is it two over one or uh they're two over one yeah um Pedro um before I forget so if you are oh see I don't have your photo um if you let me bring it up if you don't mind yeah I'll stop sharing I'm let's and we'll put this into the the the approval too um because one thing that you have on the side and we Rick and I

pointed this out um so see above the door so if you remove the porch on the right just visually take that off so you have this decorative corable with drop pendant framing if you're going to cons if you're going to remove this little overhang roof and you're going to replace this with a window um this decorative Coral with a drop pent if you're able to the one on the left since

there's no need to have that overhang if you can put that back over to the other side underneath the bay window um the second floor projection of the bay window because I think that's I think that's what happened um when this porch was added on in 1981 this drop pendant see how it sticks out from that slight overhang next to the bay window I think they took the other one on the opposite side and just framed

it out um next to the door does this make sense to uh to everyone yeah so you're saying the one on the other side of the door it used to be on the opposite side of the bay under the overhead correct yeah I yeah I've seen that on so many different houses too and um and that I think I think that's on um it might be on the house next door or um there's a

similar one uh in the neighborhood but anyways um because that is a character defining feature of that side elevation is the are those corales with a drop pendant um and if you're going to seal that up and put a window there instead you know you don't necessarily need that overhang that roof overhang anymore does that make sense Pedro so so moving it where Jason so that pendant oh on the left side that

okay relocating that to the if you move it over to the right hand side of that bay window because remember that porch roof is not there right now right so you which bay window the one to the not to not the stain glass but to the right there's that um that's to the right of it you can't see behind the column it would be symetrical with the the existing one to the right of the

door so if once you eliminate the rounded part of the porch it would be uh symmetrical to the the one that would be left on the other side gotcha gotcha okay so I mean it's that's just that's just a suggestion anyways just if you're going to seal up that door and put a window there um because that would omit the need to have that overhang that roof overhang that's there now

um that's just a suggestion and that's if that's something of of consideration um but you know just putting that out there at least um but anyways yeah so if you want to does anyone have any objection to sealing up the door and replacing it with the window separate we can make a separate motion and letter of approval for just that along along with the recommendation that the call will be mov

right Bay yeah I mean if it's if it's feasible to do that but um okay um so the original application was for um the rebuilding of the front porch and then the side secondary staircase so um we'll need to make we'll need to make a um a a change to that to tabling the side secondary staircase for now um and then just focusing on the front porch so I can make that um if how Rick

how would we word that well was the was the uh adding of that side porch was that part of our agenda tonight yes we have to do is table have to table that particular request for the side porch for the side porch okay and and then uh if it's not don't I don't know if we're if I don't know if we can uh well I guess we're talking about the whole construction phase so I'm I'm

wondering if we can actually okay the removal of the door without it being on the agenda okay that's one yeah so why don't yeah I don't know if we can yeah because for officially the the way the agenda was written we were reviewing front porch and the side secondary stairs so this is not on our the ceiling up of the door is not on our perview right now on on the agenda um

so we've discussed it all of us so that it's not it's not irrelevant and probably put it on the agenda for next meeting in in what two weeks yeah and that way you can have your answer Pedro in writing within a couple of weeks well just there's there's a little technicality here we not might not be able to be doing this it's not on the agenda I understand yeah and that buys

you some time too so if you know you can explore the feasibility of having the deck on the other side and so um and we we would have proper drawings with meas measurements and so forth and that way um and our our certificates of appropriateness are good for a year um so even if we have all taken care of um our next meeting is actually going to be it's not the third Tuesday of the month

because there's a scheduling uh conflict so it's going to be I think it's the 26th um of November um so it's the Tuesday before Thanksgiving I believe um so there's some extra time at least and um to have those drawings prepared if you are ready to uh to if you're ready at that time um otherwise uh we can review the the the door um and the side porch um at a you know a later meeting

at one of our regular meetings um but for tonight so we so we would uh table that request for the side secondary staircase and just move forward with the Reconstruction of the front porch so do you want that in the motion I'll make a motion that we table the side T Edition and change I'll second that motion Rick okay so I have a motion by um motion by Rick second and by Joyce to um

table the um request for the side secondary staircase um may I get a a second a roll call please um Connie yes Elizabeth yes Joyce yes um Ashley did we lose Ashley we may have lost her uh John yes um Rick did I ask you sorry yes and Jason bardi yes all right so that's tabled um Ashley may have gotten off but um we do have a quorum um all right so then moving on to the

certificate of appropriateness for the front porch um so this is conditional of updated drawings Pedro um that show um the list of changes so the lattice um the front hand rails with the new post the trim to the Gable um and then also the uh the side facade of where um uh uh where the the curve would have been so showing the railings and so forth um so and anything was there anything else

that I'm missing everyone oh and also the list of the materials that are going to be used okay materials including the lattice corre and the decking yep um all right so this uh so this would be a certificate of appropriateness um conditional a condition upon receiving updated drawings um and with the list of materials so I get a roll call to approve that motion on the uh or not roll call sorry um if I

can get a motion to um approve the certificate of appropriateness on those conditions I'll submit that all right okay was that a motion Joy sorry was that a motion yeah that was a motion by Joyce okay well I I'll suck in that not not an issue okay a roll call by I'm sorry a um motion by Joyce seconded by Rick for certificate of appropriateness with conditions on an updated drawing and

list of materials uh roll call vote please uh Connie yes Elizabeth yes Joyce Joyce yes or no yes yes or no Joyce Joyce are you proving yes if you can raise your hand please thought I was on no we're T yeah you were we're taking a roll call um to approve the certificate okay I'm I I keep going from mute to unmute I don't know why we can

hear you is that a yes or a no well I raise my thank you uh Rick yes uh John yes and Jason bushard nocki yes all right um so Pedra as soon as that we can get the um we can get the updated drawings um and listed material um and then I will release the certificate of appropriateness to you for the uh porch so that'll go towards your application for the building

permit yes so I will work with uh Darwin we'll get that those updated drawings as soon as possible and uh send in to you yes and then I'll submit it over to the board and um you know if there's no need to meet again then we'll have the uh the certificate and okay uh we'll meet again on the 26 26th yes um so if you have if you're able to get your drawings in for the the

proposal for the um side door window um and then um if you're able able to get drawings if you wanted to put the um the deck on the other side we can get that all together great thank you you're welcome um great thank you so much um so going back onto the agenda we have nothing for register a significant structures um there's no old business um so there's nothing else um we are again

scheduled to meet on Tuesday um one second Tuesday November 26th at 6 PM that's at Government Center um so if there's nothing else if I can get a motion to adjourn the meeting at 7:32 p.m. I'll make a motion to adjourn okay thank you second the motion Elizabeth all right seconded by I'm sorry motion made by Connie seconded by Elizabeth roll call Connie yes Elizabeth yes Joy Yes Rick yes joh yep and Jason B yes