11.6.2023 Historical Commission

thanks uh good evening everyone and thank you for joining us uh for the uh meeting of the Fall River historical commission uh we are um uh meeting virtually via Zoom uh the meeting is being recorded uh which will be uh posted on to Fall River government TV as well as the um uh government TV's uh YouTube page as well um it is Monday no member 6th 2003 I'm sorry 2023 and it is 6:04

p.m. uh pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible um I get a roll call uh Elizabeth here Joyce

here uh Rick here via Zoom Ashley yeah Connie here and Jason bushard Andi uh present via Zoom um we are missing uh John Jonathan Lima um we have no open seats on the commission um let's see the first item on the agenda is to review and approve the minutes from October 17 202 23 um Elizabeth sent that around earlier today um I did have uh one correction Elizabeth um and that is on item number

10 um regarding 655 Rock Street um the uh the names are just switched around um the owner of the house is James Fel and the property manager is James Holland oh okay all right I'll s it back out everything was good though okay um so if you're able to make that if you're able to make that little correction um I don't know if anyone else has any questions on the

minutes I'll make a motion uh that with the correction we accept the minutes of the meeting as written I'll second that motion Connie all right I have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie to approve the minutes with that one correction on item 10 um roll call vote to approve the minutes Elizabeth yes uh Joyce yes uh Rick Rick yes you Ashley yes Connie yes and Jason bardaki yes all right thank

you um item number two we have a notice of intent to demolish um this is 16 um so it's the administration building uh for the Fall River Waterworks complex um it with the address is 1620 Bedford Street um the structure is listed on the uh Fall River register of significant structures um it is part of the Water Works National register District however on the national register District it is listed as

non-contributing um and that was from the survey that was done in 1981 it's a little dated um so we do have uh representatives from the Waterworks um they're seeking a waiver of the sixth month demolition delay um if you want mind introduce yourselves and uh who you're representing please hi how's it going commission Paul furland so I'm the administrator of community utilities for the city of FL

River oversea Water and Sewer you my name is David andreid I am with Stark Architects We're The Architects of record on the broadland great um if you wouldn't mind um just explaining the um proposal uh the um the what's happening and regarding the um I know there's a deadline um regarding the demo and the turnover of the site and so forth so sorry for the confusion with this um the the

conversations on this project date back to 2019 um at such times we had spoken with the former chair and explained the project the scope what everything was going to entail and how the demolition of the building was going to be required at the time um there were discussions that a letter was going to be provided and um unbeknownst to myself those letters I guess are only a year old and

though we've um subsequently only good for a year I should say uh and we've subsequently gone back and forth with various conversations with the commission and members over the over the years um as as with most Municipal projects they aren't one-year Endeavors um the design period in this project loan I think Paul if if I remember correctly was roughly a year and a half um and then we had the pause related to

coid and and bidding and everything else so uh right now I don't know if anyone's been by the property lately but the new building is complete the Personnel Drive is partially constructed and we now need to demolish the building to complete the Personnel Drive um and get that done prior to the end of the paving season which is the request uh when it was brought to our attention when the

contractor went to go get the building the demo permit um that the six-month uh waiting period was in play and after some research and speaking with Jason as well as with um is it is it uh correct me Paul I can't remember the name of the krye is that accurate and kry is where we went through all of this and came to the conclusion that we needed to schedule meeting tonight to um get this

waiver reviewed and hopefully approved thank you um so and I as I had mentioned before yeah so the there was the the basically any demo permit that is issued there's an um they they do expire after a year so our letters are they're valid for a year um and uh within when I was checking with Carrie to see if uh anything was submitted from the former chair she from my understanding nothing was submitted um

back in 2019 um but even still it would have expired at this point um and um I know there's a question as to whether or not um the property was listed as a district uh as a national register district and I looked I did confirm macis uh so macis is the database through the state's uh historical commission um that it is it does comprise of the 22 acres of land um

there are a number of structures that are listed as contributing uh resources and then there's others that are listed as non contributing resources so this property this particular structure was listed on the city's registry which is um why we're meeting today even though it's listed on the national register is non-contributing because it's on the city's registry um that kick started the six-month demo delay um and

we do review any property the six month goes on there for any partial demo or full demo uh of anything that is listed on the city's registry um so just providing that background um and I don't know if I have any other um is there any questions from anyone on the board regarding regarding the uh proposal I have a question who actually has been in charge of this building like

why is it so badly neglected uh it's been in the city hands and it was a historical building and so my question is like who was in charge of taking care of this building and why did it get to the point where now you're asking to actually have it demoed build go I wasn't going to I was going to speak a little bit to that Paul but if you want to go first that's fine I

was just going to say that the use of the building actually is where it's no longer feasible for the at least why we had the project that we had is it no longer met the needs of the water department and there was a lot of things that the building couldn't provide now as far as the actual structure that I was going to turn over to you Paul but I did want to say it's twofold it's not

only the building but it's also usability for what it needs to be used for yeah so the B the building's always been under the care and custody of the water department uh the water department has maintained it's gone through many upgrades over the years um but again as David mentioned when we did an evaluation of our needs uh for the building potential reuse of this building uh just wasn't able to suit our

needs um you know uh times have definitely changed within uh uh utility construction um from years ago to where we are now uh and that's where we uh we opted to construct the new building that's to the north of this building I just find it disheartening that this like building I mean I went by it and it clearly isn't it's been neglected and it's been neglected for many years and it's been neglected by

whoever was in charge of um taking care of the building and it it's uh considering the type of building that it is it's a shame that it wasn't Incorporated I I know what you're saying that it's no longer the usability um but it could have been incorporated into the new building or part of the new building or something along that um that line so I I do feel disheartened about this whole thing I do

feel like um you as you know uh the person from stock should have you knew that or at least you should have known that this was on the registry and um and so here we are having a special meeting and I'm thinking um this should have all been done like all this homework should have been done this should come before us before so and and that oh I'm sorry I

thought you were done goad you can I and we did and we did have a lot of those conversations and we explored opt to incorporate the building and then also looking at the availability of funds with the renovation work that would have been needed for the building to bring it up to date and what and and those it just economically was not feasible for the end needs of the city um as far as

bringing it up and speaking with the commission before um that did we there was never a formal presentation made to the commission but I mean I have emails going back to 2019 copying the chair of the commission at the time in indicating that um that the building was basically okay to demolish and good to go and we could proceed as planned so I don't want the commission to think that we were um

operating in a in a vacuum so to speak and and not approaching the commission and having these discussions we were we did explore a lot of different ways to initially in the initial design stages Salvage the building or somehow incorporate the building it just uh at the end of the day with the funds that were available the amount of site work that was going to be needed for the project it it just didn't pan together

yeah so that so that site up there is very difficult site too uh that's uh the top of the floor of a bath with the under the ledge that runs underneath the city so uh trying to fit what we needed uh on that site altogether was a difficult process um you know just in relation to the whole entire site itself the other buildings that are on that site that uh are uh part of the national

registry of the tower across the street the 1873 Pump Station at the bottom with the hill um you know years ago um 10 15 years ago uh when I first started with the water department uh the building down the bottom the hill half the roof was collapsing in the water department made huge investments into those historically significant structures uh to stabilize them uh that's why we're

able to save those buildings at this point uh again just with the ReUse of that existing building it didn't make sense financially to be able toh to save that building well I have a I have a question too uh I understand this building is Administration it's an administration building so all the time that it was declining where was Administration being conducted and and what what are you

going to do with with Administration now where is that function and who's who does that function yeah so so it's so it's the water maintenance division that's housed that that was housed out of that build building um so those are the guys that uh work out in the roadway repairing water Ms on water break water main brakes Water Service leaks uh asphalts uh sidewalks from water water uh

affected areas um the uh building the guys were still work we were working out of that building right up until July uh when we were able to get occupancy on our new building just to the north of this building um so staff was still working out of that uh out of that building uh up until that point and now we're in a new in a new building that's to the north uh of uh of

this existing building uh it's a uh a larger building allows us to be able to uh store our equipment inside uh so the water the administration portion of that is uh is our clerical staff our director uh our engineering AIDS uh water service workers uh so those are all housed in the uh front half of our new building then we have a new mechanics Bay uh in the new building

as well as some vehicle storage Bays uh and a vehicle wash bay that's required by a federal permit well also so to put to put in perspective the the administration portion of the building the overall building is 20 a little over 26,000 square feet and the actual Administration the administrative portion of the building is only uh 5,000 square feet well also uh Mr ferland I want to

applaud the preservation work that the water department has done is doing and will continue to do uh for the rest of the complex I read it up I researched it uh it's a magnificent effort and a costly effort and it's being done by the right people so I salute the water department in that effort um your Val the value that you place on the Waterworks it is good for Generations so

I appreciate the effort that the water department is doing and also the city of Fall River to maintain the entire complex yeah no I really do appreciate that thank you very much and uh you know it's us that that's leading it because we own and maintain the buildings but we get help from CPC uh we've gotten Mass historical grants in the past and stuff too but a lot of the burden does come

from our rates as well well I took the tour uh the tour that um representative fola arranged yes I guess that was before the pandemic time has really flown by uh but um it's just amazing it's amazing to realize what kind of engineering feat it was in the 1850s to bring safe clean water to the city of Fall River um and the uh the kind of equipment that I saw there it's just a you need more

tours you need more tourist you need the students to get up there and and see just what they're doing be because it's it uh it's a phenomenal lesson in engineering and in preservation yeah thank you and again uh we always like to open our facilities to guided tours uh if anybody ever wants uh tour of any of our facilities the 1875 Tower uh the 1873 Pump Station uh into

login which is uh where uh yeah yeah Mr bordon the foundation from Mr Borden's old house is uh if anybody ever wants tour to those facilities they can contact the water department and we'll set up a guided tour with with one of our staff that's great thank you I I have another question so is it possible for us to get a listing of all the uh buildings that you're responsible for so

that we because I know there was some confusion about whether a building was historical or not um so that we can have that communication with you so that we can be proactive in protecting these buildings or apply for CPC funds or whatever the case may be but to actually have a listing so there's no miscommunication going forward I yeah you know we can put we can put together a list of the buildings uh so I

do both Water and Sewer um I don't know whether we have any Real historic buildings on the sewer end of uh things most of our stuff is underground but with the water department yeah I'm definitely more than uh more than happy to put together a uh a comprehensive list of all the properties that we have uh you know a lot of some of them are on City side but we have other ones that

are in the reservation as well um you know 2929 Blossom Road which is our reservation headquarters uh which was B in botus Blossom Workshop um out there and then we just acquired the uh Old datac Farm uh over on Blossom Road as well which we plan to turn into a Discovery Center uh for The Bu Reserve um so the uh at our last um meeting which was uh oh goodness I think

October mid October the 17th I think um we um so we're we're in the very early stages of applying um to for certified local government which uh which is a program through the mass Massachusetts historical commission uh and the National Park Service and that um if if approved um that will allow um the city uh access to um additional Grant funds provided from the mass historical commission um these are more competitive

based that um not every Community has access to but that allows for survey work for example um this property was surveyed in the 80s and my suspicion why the admin building was not listed as contributing may have been maybe part of its age it was built 1922 the survey was done 81 um it was just over 50 years old um so there's a possibility that it may not have been significant enough compar compared to

the other structures on the property um but an additional survey to update um you know the invent of the property if there's anything that's not listed as contributing um it will at least uh enable those properties to have uh uh use of CPC funds for example uh for any prevent uh for preservation work um then anything else that the uh the waterboard might have um historically that is not

listed on the register um so we're in the process of that and you know hopefully that's something that will get get the ball rolling on getting other districts in the city uh surveyed and inventoried and um it at the end of the day it's a very good thing um so um just putting that out there um so a list of any structure um would be fantastic um so we

have an idea as to you know if there's any you if there's an a building that might be over 50 years old that fits the one of the different criteria uh of making it eligible for you know CPC funds or national register that sort of a thing that would be greatly appreciated um and Paul if you don't mind when you do that you're well aware I'm sure you're speaking to Mike on a

regular basis about the uh formes that we're doing over there in the bio reserve and they're somewhere in a neighborhood of 90 to 100 historic sites out there that have been analyzed and are being are going to be be recorded shortly uh we're in the throws of doing that uh and Mike's been putting in a Yan's effort to pull that together and I I appreciate that uh but if you could

incorporate that in the list that you sent to us because we're going to have the bio Reserve formas all listed and you know certified at the registry of deeds eventually so all right assist us so let let you know this way it can become a more Cooperative effort uh I I was part of the original conversation I know where Connie's coming from with her questions but it was difficult when that

uh building your this Ware this uh uh building that you put up in the uh uh off off uh Bedford Street was originally put in the neighborhood was in an uproar you're well aware of that and it was real difficult to try and get the water department to sit with us at that time uh so so let's let's try and make it a warmer Cozier feeling let push it off in a New

Direction definitely without a doubt again you know I think historic preservation is key to uh to the community you know and again that's why we do put a lot of effort into it I've had yeah multiple conversations with Mike about the work that he's doing on uh Gathering all that information out there and uh you know it's one of the things that we like to do to help support it so

um what is the oh sorry go ahead no go ahead I I just I just want to point out again the work that you do I mean we don't have a situation in Fall River Like Flint Michigan the work that you do every day is keeping us safe keeping the water lead free at this point that's another initiative that's another project that's ongoing because I got my letter already and my and my appointment

is Thursday afternoon good so yeah so I mean I'm well aware that this is a tremendous effort that I I saw Mr Sullivan when when we took the tour so you know I know the work that goes on there and I'm appreci again I appreciate the fact that you're keeping us out of hm's way yes thank you yeah you know water department you know our structures our buildings is is part of it uh our

primary uh you know reason that we're here uh is to uh provide Clean safe drinking water for the 100,000 plus residents uh of the city Fall Fall River and surrounding communities um so yeah definitely you know was one thing uh one thing we missed out on recently uh in 2020 and I was trying to plan to do some events and stuff the water department turned 150 years old in

2020 Co kind of put a little kabash on some of our celebrations that we were planning and things like that uh but uh that was uh pretty momentous occasion so I hoping maybe uh 2025 to uh to celebrate 15 yes very good um what is the um uh you p approval of the waiver what is the turnaround for like when do you expect to start working having the project ideally completed contractor to my

understanding was is ready to knock the building down last week um to stay on schedule and to have Paving completed as I mentioned uh by the end of this Paving season um so right now the only items uh remaining for the completion of the project is uh the demolition of the structure back filling back filling the space completion of the roadway um and then the final Paving around the

perimeter as well as some incidental um site work um but that's really well unless I miss I that's really it that's left yeah some other minor punch list items that come with a construction like this uh for very minor things but yeah those are the uh those are the major things on the site okay as I as I said this is really disheartening because as Rick pointed out I've been on the board since the

board got established again and uh the Water Department was invited multiple times to come talk to talk to us and so I do feel like both both the the water department and as well as Stark failed to come before us and that's why I feel disheartened in this like emergency all of a sudden popped up about hurry up and let get this building knocked down now that's where I was coming from I

appreciate the work that you do Mr furland and like I appreciate having clean water it's not about that I not only appreciate that part but I appreciate the building itself and even though you feel that the building should come down I still look at it and I see an incredible beautiful building that has a lot of historical significance and it's a shame that it wasn't Incorporated

some way and saved somehow just as they pump um right down the road like that's another incredible building and it's just like little by little we get rid of these uh historically significant buildings and we end up with the warehouse that you just built so it's like you know you it's just it drives me nuts because it's we're in emergency mode now and now we're pushed up against

the wall to make a decision that I don't appreciate making so that's where I'm coming from and I feel like I know you have emails you were invited to come before the historical commission for us to have a conversation years ago when there was a different chair and so that's what I'm you know I was there Rick was there several of us were so um that's why I'm asking the questions that I am and I'm

and that's why it's important for me or for the board to have a list of what you're in charge of so that we can work together to prevent this from happening in the future that's where I'm coming from Y and not that I don't appreciate the work that you're doing regarding um you know the water for the city of the of fora to um Echo what Connie said um you

know in in the past and I wasn't on the historical commission um uh at the time I was on the historic district District commission which was completely separate um but the um with a six-month demolition delay the the board there's no requirement for developers or Property Owners or anyone to when once they pulled the permit you know notice was filed with the chair and then you hoped if that they would attend

a meeting um when the item was brought up and unfortunately the board was uh was burned by that with um it was specifically the demolition of the U the uh Morgan Street School um over uh just off of South Main Street and you know the demo delay expired the uh property owner never came to any of the meetings despite being invited over and over again um and then you know it's

currently a a surface parking lot and um you know there there's opportunities that we um that can be created out of meeting with the property owners to discuss alternative use uses to see if you know if Grant funds were uh applied for tax credits um if there was a way incorporating the structure um so that's why we are uh when we get demo permits or demo requests we if they're on the

registry the the uh property owner or representative they now have to come before the uh the historical commission so we can vet this out because um you know as I've explained we've you know a lot of times this just it's just an empty uh you know the six-month delay expires and then the building's gone and the historical commission was never given the opportunity to to talk it out

and figure out what an alternative could be so um there any other questions or comments from the board regarding this okay um so they are seeking a waiver of the six month delay uh do I have anyone who wants to make a motion on that make a motion to approve okay all right I'm reluctantly going to uh okay that motion and second it only because of the condition that the building is at

this present stage it's been Windows have been taken down walls the structure is getting to be almost a hazard U and putting a delay six-month delay on it is not going to suit anyone's needs uh so I'm reluctantly I will second the motion y thank you I have a motion by Ashley and a second by Rick uh to wave the six-month delay um all right may I get a roll call vote please um Elizabeth

yes Joyce Yes Rick yes Ashley yes Connie yes and Jason Bard and Rocky yes all right thank you um I will send that uh letter the um I'll send that out to you ASAP so you have that um because I know you're against the deadline but um that should that will go with the uh demo permit um the waiver all right Bo I I just want to say thank you very much uh I do

apologize for uh the way this project um has come to fruition but uh moving forward definitely you can you can have my guarantee that we will be in touch with any of our future projects so I appreciate y thank you thank you thank you guys have a good night okay you too um let's see the we had one other item come up on the um the agenda and this this is time sensitive as well because

um so this is item number three on the agenda regarding uh1 President Avenue it's the Redevelopment of the shopping center at the bottom of President AV and uh dval Street um so this is being reviewed by the zoning board of appeals on November 16th um and so the proposal at least this is from the agenda from the zoning board of appeals item number two under new business um uh the

applicant seeks a variance to demolish the existing structure and rebuild a mixed use concept consisting of 350 residential apartment units a parking garage and retail space in accordance with the submitted plans um and they're asking for a waving of sidey guard setback Building height type of use and unit count in a BL which is local business zoning district and an HD1 housing development overlay District the

applicant also seeks a special permit to reduce parking parking requirements so the shopping center as we know it is not obviously on the registry but there's one item that or one structured and that is um the almax diner uh which is on the national register of historic places um it's listed as lr.

1973 um on the macis database um So the plan that I received from zoning uh or from the zoning or planning office um and I did send that around to everyone um it's not a very detailed plan but it shows the mass of the building specifically looking at the layout and I don't believe the diner is not listed anywhere on that plan whatsoever so we're not reviewing the design of the building we're not

reviewing um the uh any anything pertaining to that we're solely looking at the diner because it is listed on the national register obviously it's on the city's registry um and looking at doing a little bit of research on the property so the diner structure itself is owned by the owners of the shopping center and the business that's there has a lease um so that's where that comes in um so my

feeling is is that um we caught this beforehand I just happened to notice this on Facebook of all things and so I had asked for the plan and you know sure enough there's the diner is not listed so um in order for us to if we want to have a letter uh an opinion submitted to the zoning board we have to have a board approval on that um which requires us to

meet for that um they're meeting next um next week on the 16th um so I would love if we would like to get a letter I would love to get this out and submitted beforehand so we could at least meet their deadline um you know I don't know there's no the plan is very I there's lack of information in in in a way there's no discussion if the diner is going to be

moved we know that diners are mobile um this Diner has moved twice uh it originated on South Main street where the I think it's St an's bank I think uh across from the Oliva Funeral Home it originated there then it moved over to I think president a proper and then was turned to face Deval Street I think I might be getting that part I think it's it's been moved three times actually

correct yes on 12 Street on the water side oh okay oh I didn't know was on where where the bicentennial uh Park is where the pump station is it was right there at that pump station okay so it's in the pocking lot that's where it was yeah all right when it was on President Avenue it actually faced President Avenue and then it turned whena okay so I mean and that one move

in particular from South Main to the North End I mean that was that's significant in it's in of itself but um so there's no in the plans there's nothing indicating what's happening to that Diner um if it's being moved if it's just simply going to get torn down um and we don't know you know this it looks like the pro The Proposal is coming from a a a a group it's

called 1265 Main Street LLC and they're based out of I believe it's tubry so this looks to be like a speculative uh uh Venture for them they're not I don't think they've actually closed on the property they're just looking to see if they can receive the variances and the approvals before they go ahead with the development um so are we in the right the zoning board did any kind of waiver because that's the whole idea

about the Waterfront is not to have the height restriction I mean to maintain the height restriction um and so this is again someone out of town uh not someone really vested in the city they just vested in their pockets and I do believe that the the diner is a historic um uh uh not building but uh aist well saw the diner you know that it's like the night owl I feel like these din are

iconic historic iconic uh you know structure and should be saved and we have like a waterfront that's going to be a vast Waterfront how what a great place for that um Dina to actually you know be or something along that I mean I don't know what the plan should be for it um but I certainly wouldn't want to see it to disappear because it's I know I mean it's been around forever it seems

and so um just like I worry about the night owl like I think that's a real cool Diner um Landmark Landmark yeah there you go and they're representative of their the roadside Americana that's just vaning you know it bothers me that the diner interior has been changed so much like the booths were removed because to me Booth is part of a diner but that can all be restored that can

all be done down the road but the the shell itself is pretty iconic the you know almax name on it and stuff so I would make a motion for the board to send a letter to the zoning board um to prevent this from being demolished and I that I would definitely second that motion that's that's an important motion to make I believe so just just for clarification while I draft this letter and then um uh so

we're we are urging the zoning board of appeals to um for the preservation of the diner we're not are we addressing anything regarding the height of the development do we want to look at that or no oh because we have so I don't know if it's within our purview I don't think it is because so like when we reviewed the the height requirement for that tower that was supposed to go in over on

Co was it Cove Street or Weaver Street remember that's a historic district I believe um whereas this is not so um I think that was the reasoning why we I mean from a historical commission point of view I think it would be detrimental to the Waterfront to do what's been done to then have something gigantic overpowering you know um every else the height restrictions were put in for a

reason yeah um a waiver would be because of hardship uh and and this so that particular and from what I just saw too in The Herald news I think today or yesterday um the Redevelopment Authority is um reviewing I believe three bids from uh uh three firms that um are proposing uh basically creating I don't know if it's like a master plan or basically just creating layout for um for the

Waterfront District for the the landout that's being turned over for uh from what was the highway um so and I don't know if that's going to also address this particular lot usually they do um as part of any type of a plan like that so um but it's not in a historic district um but um I you know I saw the proposal and I'm just this is in the letter uh would it be wise to

incorporate some comments regarding just that that we'd love to see more historic uh features uh put into the Redevelopment of the Waterfront um so that so that would be separate that would be for any I mean that could be a letter to the Redevelopment Authority when they go to to review the three bids from those firms we can but it it could could have be an adjunct to the letter that you're

writing about the almax diner you know that we'd like to maintain those historic structures within the concept of Redevelopment um I don't I if it was in a historic district I think we would have a better case I think I think we should really just focus on the diner diner um regarding that I mean I do think that from a an opinion point of view that the historic commission if we

decided to vote on it would be to say that um if we all agree that the height restrictions that have been placed on the waterfront should be maintained for this you know like I think of um Skyline I think of uh just the the um the ability for everyone to enjoy the Waterfront rather than just you know this toer firm that has not they're not vested in the city they're basically

doing this because it's going to be financially the more more apartments that are in it it's going to be financially um uh beneficial yeah beneficial for them but not beneficial for the city um unfortunately I think we're going to see a lot of this once um once they're done with a construction down on 79 um I have a strong strong feeling that that's essentially what's going to happen is it's just going to be Side by

each of all high buildings going all downtown similar to larger cities um right that's a big one um and I don't know how that process rolled out with with Provident there was a lot more land but um they have a whole separate commission um charged with selling and developing the you know that interchange with 95 and 195 um so their zoning um they're the Zoning for them it's part

of it's it's a little complex um but um yeah I believe they still abide by the zoning uh ordinance in in Providence but um you know every city that does projects like this they're handled a little bit differently but um I would imagine at least hopefully that there's some you know they were uh the Redevelopment Authority would like input from other boards from you know from us for example yeah there's not too many

historical resources in that immediate area um at least that have been surveyed um but yeah you know as Connie mentioned you know the skyline you have something too tall you have all those properties up and down president AV in the highlands that are suddenly you know if they approve something that's this is I believe it's a seven story building um it's actually actually would a extreme

High first floor level so it's more like a seven and a half story yeah so but I mean these are things that I'm hoping that maybe we do have some involvement in when it comes to uh the redev Redevelopment Authority uh uh you know working out those three bids but regarding the diner um you know I think yeah uh we should stick to stick to that and at least urge its preservation and um if

it's they want to tear it down then we urge that it get relocated somewhere else knowing that it has been moved a few times you know it might involve getting a structural um uh yeah a a structural engineer to inspect if it's able to be moved I would imagine it is but yeah so well focusing on the diner what I read in the Herold news the owner of the diner who leases it from the

property um said that if it was going to be moved again it would probably fall down it would probably fall apart but I have not seen that owner come before us uh to seek preservation information on the diner so I don't know if you want to mention that or scared around it that if you have something that is that historic uh what are you doing to take care of it I mean

I I haven't seen anybody uh make an effort to um look into preservation information taxt information whatever and that that owner is um currently running for the city council I believe so well so the the it's just the business that's owned not the building so the building the building is owned by the developer that owns that whole shopping center correct right um so we're just reacting based

on the The Proposal as it as it is uh regarding the plan that does not include the diner as part of its um which is you know the historic resource that's on the property um so I mean if it's we could put into the letter that you know if it's uh If It ultimately has to come down or if if the proposal is to tear down the diner um that a structural

survey I suppose is done to assess whether or not you know whether the building is uh structurally able to be relocated um you know and go from there um you know there are there are alternatives to this um you know I don't know if tax credits would be able to be applied in this case but um you know I don't know if CPC funds can be even applied in this case I'm not sure but um

you know there are options to EXP FL so I guess we could word it that way that um you know we're urging the preservation of the diner if uh or potential relocation of the diner um and um you know that all avenues need to be sourced for the structural stability of the diner for the um you know what Financial um uh what financial assistance uh there is for reloc it or preserving it that

sort of a thing um am I missing anything sure if if we are saying the moving it as a possibility should we suggest where what area it should stay in okay I I think um Connie's idea about the Waterfront uh if if it can be moved if it can be preserved it's an ideal addition but if the RDA is meeting they're the ones that really I mean I don't know who's going to be

involved with them with uh as you were saying that they they're planning to meet and do a master plan so I don't know what that plan is going to incorporate I was just throwing it out there that to me having that to move like being on the waterfront as a place where people are walking on the waterfront and you can go there and get something to eat or whatever I exactly places to pop

into that are down there enjoying the Waterfront to be able to grab a or whatever it may turn I mean it could just be an ice cream place for all you know and still be called almax diner I don't know yeah there's there should be I mean in that case it would be um you know there's a another reuse for the structure okay um well just one of fact if it um

if that's the case it might be part of a master plan that still has not been developed and there could be Federal monies involved in that there could be other monies that might impact it we we just don't have the information well I'm just going to keep my fingers crossed that the zoning board denies this so well so so this letter would be sorry to interrupt I have a question so you mentioned CPC funding would that

possibly cover the moving of the diner as part of its preservation or would that be totally separate from like restoring the building itself I don't know that's a good question for Rick well unfortunately are fortunately it's kind of late right now to apply for CPC money uh that has to be applied for in June and then we review it I don't think this is happening anytime soon right so there's there is absolutely no

reason why they cannot apply for funding uh it's it's it's well within the parameters of the CPC but would the actual moving of the building qualify as like something they could use the funding towards I mean they could donate that building to the city of Fall River and then the the city of Fall River could apply for funds because then it wouldn't be a private entity it's not structurally sound

though someone's going to have to fix it in order to move it don't we don't know that yet yeah yeah but um CPC funds can be used for a structural assessment no uh yes yeah but it it it would be a little I'm not saying it it doesn't have a chance because it it is a privately uh uh operated uh business but it is a business so and it is historic and it's

on the register so yes it would fall under that category uh for review and and yes there could be some funds applied you know if the board voted on that even for a private for a private owner yes yes because it it is a historic building and you if it was a private Enterprise it would be something entirely different but it's a business operating it as a business and then

there's the ability of having the um uh I mean there's an the easement that goes onto it anyway is the deed restriction correct yes there there would be all right which that's now there might have been an issue with that because uh the last go around Al almax uh cliff py and his organization was applying to uh for funding to rehab the sign and some other features attached to the building which

would have then put a restriction preservation restriction on the property and he would withdrew and never did apply so I'm thinking the owner did not want any preservation restrictions put on his property and so that had to not come to fruition and that's an assumption on my part but there was a reason why that that was not you know not committed completely yeah this is a tricky situation because the building is

is it can be moved so and the Restriction gets placed onto the building and the land and so that yeah this is a right the building belongs to someone else you know they've got no interest in that building except for the property and yes they're renting it out and making income uh why ideally if they gave the building to the city I know the city doesn't want any more buildings and whatnot but if they

gave the into the city then it would be the perfect combination to get money from the C okay and that again uh Jason if if we get the CLG approved there's there's an open umbrella for that that's that's a great opportunity yep exactly um all right I might in the letter I may list some Alternatives that we we've discussed um you know as possible avenues that can be explored um you know

often times we when we see a demo request um you know they'll say oh yes you know we've done our due diligence of seeing if it's eligible for tax credits if it's eligible for CPC and I don't think they've actually sometimes they've uh uh applicants have actually gone that far um so there are alternatives here um so it's good to list that out and indicate that there's additional options and hopefully that's enough

to yeah so we're looking at yeah all right that so we would be approving a letter in support of its preservation relocation listing Alternatives um and um the ability for CPC funds with the particular criteria of um you know the building being either donated or relocated and you know the prop the building owner being able to apply for those funds um that can help for the structural assessment that can apply for the

relocation of the building that sort of a thing um so and this would be um focus on the diner so is there anything else I'm missing no that's fine all right and I'll um I'll send a letter around as well just so if there's any edits that have to be made before I submit it um so they're meeting on the 16th um I will try to be my my hope is

to be in attendance um but if I submit it they will have the letter read um before the board um so I mean I could I will likely attend anyways just so I can have that have that presence with the for the historical commission Jason to whom is that letter addressed to the uh developer to the Redevelopment authority to the mayor where is that mayor going the letter will to the Z appeals

okay because they're the ones host hosting the uh the meeting no we still do need to vote Yes so after all that so if we can get a motion to approve the letter you did make a motion I believe did you not Connie and then I second it okay yep okay so we should be all set there we would just discuss second yes thank you all right so I have a motion by Connie a

second by Rick uh for the letter um for the zoning board of appeals uh roll call votes Elizabeth yes uh Joyce Yes Rick Rick manany yes Ashley yes Connie yes and Jason bishard naraki yes right thank you I will draft that up and set it around for any edits and then I will have that submitted I would like to get this in um well before the end of the week so I can

meet their deadline um I believe they need it in they're meeting a Tuesday wait a minute I'm not sure the the 16th is a Thursday Thursday so they will need it in by I believe that Tuesday the 14th so um so I'll have that submitted before then um great um thank you very much um is there anything regard anything else um regarding open discussion or anything that yes yes I have something else I've

been um two weeks ago to the day uh we were not able to have a meeting and get a position in place uh to the city council on the bank Street Armory so my question is where does that stand right now and where do we stand in terms of making our opinion uh clear to the council as to what we would like to see happen with the bank Street

Armory um so I I reached out to um the uh clerk for the city council uh I believe her name is Lauren um because they're meeting on a Tuesday the uh deadline is uh so they're meeting tomorrow um so the deadline is um the Friday before um we weren't able to meet last week so uh we're not it we've already pass the deadline of submitting an opinion on the bank Street Armory

unfortunately um so we can appear before city council tomorrow I believe their meeting that is being brought up around I think at six or at the meeting that begins at 6 uh we can go um to city council and uh as private citizens um but uh aside from that we because we're not we're past the deadline we can't submit a uh a a formal opinion um it will be if they extend it another

two weeks then we can uh or if they delay the vote once again we will um we have the opportunity of meeting again to figure out if we can get an opinion out there um but I think that's where that stands unfortunately Connie what what is the preservation Society doing on that uh would were they able to get an opinion listed and sent to the council Yes actually been several meetings with several different counselors

um yeah we can't bring that up we can't take a vote or anything of that nature well yeah because we're past the deadline and um uh yeah it's not on our agenda no it's not on the agenda um but um if if they delay the vote then you know we can by all means we can get an a formal opinion uh brought up voted and submitted uh hopefully before deadline

um I didn't realize that they had even delayed the vote until I think it was a few days after the city council meeting when I noticed that they had delay the vote there is a re a state restriction Deed on that building and um you you should look at it and you should read it because it's very interesting it's very interesting and it's not old uh it was only put up within the last 10

years um so and to share that I'll try to download a c unless unless Connie if you have a copy of it oh you're on mute Cony yeah Connie tell us how interesting it is how I we don't know I don't actually think we can have H A discussion about all this okay all right so let's see what happens tomorrow and then if it gets delayed then we will a vote again then we will meet regarding

that um to get a formal opinion out from sh to share that with you guys but I mean yeah we can't discuss it and if you want to go as a private citizen I say go for it like I think it's important you know if you feel passionate about it you can go before them okay um um all right so we are scheduled to meet uh on Tuesday November

21st I I have a a old business or new business or discussion open discussion just for general information as you're aware we're working on the form B's for the Steep Brook which we've been discussing uh and I just got an invite uh for the six in fact the professor Styles just wrote to me today on on the 16th that's a week from Thursday building number three at 2 pm the students are going to be uh

presenting the work that they've done to date okay so uh I'm going to meet probably uh be there about one o'clock or I'm sorry about 1:30 and Professor Styles will pick me up find me in in the parking lot and take me over to the correct classroom for two o'clock what's the on that again it's it's on Thursday the 16th and it'll I don't have the classroom number but it will be at 2 pm

in building number three is that in the Roger Williams campus Roger Williams campus I guess when you go into the guard shack the first small parking lot is parking lot number one and if you just make a if you're if you're in the parking lot I guess it would be on the uh Southwest direction is that large building oh that's the School of Architecture okay it's the larer building yep and it's uh I again I don't

know what classroom it's in at this time excellent yeah so Roger Williams University uh their preservation studies program has been working on the form BS so this is this is excellent so um Rick can you can you email can you send an email to us with the specifics um if anyone can attend so we cannot have a quorum so that is three or I'm sorry four or more um so it but that is

wonderful to see that they've uh gotten this far with the with the project so that's great um excellent um if there's a way of also getting a digital copy of that that would be wonderful um for those of us that can't attend and we can I can share it with the board we can review it at the next meeting okay I'll I'll try and see what I can do with that

maybe a video or something I'll see what I can do that's great excellent thank you so much thank you um so we are scheduled to meet next on Tuesday November 21st 2023 um it is 7:08 may I get a motion to adjourn okay I'll make a motion that we adjourn I'll second the motion thank you all right motion by Rick second by Elizabeth to adjourn um it is 708 M um R call

Elizabeth Elizabeth yes I'm sorry Joyce Yes Yes Rick Mancini yes Ashley yes Connie thank you and Jason Bard Naki yes thank you so much for meeting tonight on short notice so okay thank you very much you have a good night good night everyone