The Fall River City Council held a meeting on December 14, 2021, addressing various city matters, including public hearings for curb removals, tax increment financing (TIF) agreements, and several proposed ordinances. The meeting began with public hearings on three curb removal requests, with two of them, for Burners Corporation at 188 Tremont Street and People Incorporated at 1040 Eastern Avenue, being referred to the Public Works and Transportation Committee for further review. A third request from Jerry Ayres at 457 Locust Street was adopted by the council. The Finance Committee then convened to discuss two TIF agreements, one for Residences at North River LLC and another for the transfer of an existing TIF for Millstone Medical Outsourcing. Both TIF agreements were later adopted by the full council, despite public input from Alexander Silva raising concerns about the Residences at North River project's job creation and impact on historic buildings.
AI-generated summary. May contain errors. Watch the video to verify.
Council
City Officials
Public / Other
so
2:21lebeau here lee here beckham here pelletier yeah pereira here and president potty
2:46pursue it to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible first item is a curb removal item one burners corporation 188 trenmont street
3:08for the removal of curbing as follows you need a motion to open the hearing emotions were made second hearing made by counselor beckham seconded by councillor dion all in favor aye i still voted
3:28cardboarding is at 1311 county street petitioner has an existing 22.5 foot driveway and is resisting requesting the removal of another 18 feet of curbing to the north side of the existing opening for a total of 40.5 feet this carb removal will allow for more parking for residents of the duplex are there any proponents wishing to speak any proponents any opponents wishing to speak i want you to close hold on i want to
3:56talk on it madam clerk is there any written opponents or opponents on this one this is for the this is the item one no you have none counselor lee i i thought we had an email of a of her um of someone that was opposed of this but i guess not so i i yield there is one there is an email on item two counselors okay thank you okay that's not for this one you yield
4:23yes i yield thanks concert seating council park yeah i have an issue with this i've talked to some people that live um down on county street this is a duplex that they must have gotten a variance for some time ago it's built sideways and it's for a duplex for 40 feet 40 and a half feet total in a congested neighborhood um i i would make a motion that it go to
4:46committee this will this is on our agenda yeah but that's what i would be i don't know we're in public here right now yeah correct yes you can make that motion when it comes to you you yelled anything further from the council motion a close hearing that gives a hearing made by council kilby second head by councillor pereira all those in favor aye so voted item two is people incorporated of 10 40
5:09eastern avenue for the re moving up curbing motion to open the meeting motion submitted promotional open made by council lee seconded by councillor peckham all those in favor aye so voted petitioner has an existing 26-foot driveway on eastern avenue and is requesting the removal of another 16-foot curb on the mcgowan street side for a total of 42 feet this curb cut would allow for bands to enter from
5:33eastern ab and exit on the mcgowan street side are there any proponents wishing to speak proponents should come right up to the microphone bill perkins from people incorporated yeah that we're proposing this to improve safety conditions in that area um it's you know extremely difficult for vehicles vans in particular that are dropping folks off to have to turn around in that parking lot there are often people
6:03walking around in that parking lot and it creates a safety hazard um recent construction on eastern have exacerbated that problem and you know brought us here tonight to uh ask for the second curb cut do you have a question counselor no no thank you any opponents any opponents wishing to speak saying that madam clerk we do have one objective thank you anything from the council counselors
6:37i'm sorry i can't i couldn't hear you when we go to full council i'd like to send this committee as well thank you thank you sorry i'm late guys i had traffic there we go all right item three on our agenda is jerry ayers of 457. we didn't close the second item sir motion to close the hearing well i just had a question i'm sorry the objection was there any was there anything in the
7:04email uh regarding the objection was there any extra information that needed to be heard publicly
7:26says the neighbor is opposing the curb cut parking from androids to the corner is enough for six spots curb cut will take up two parking spaces which will leave four spaces left when snow removal starts there are five families affected with parking on the right side of the street by them making this curb cut it will be a huge inconvenience to the neighbors on mcgowan street thank you are you okay
7:49thank you anything further closer motion to closed item two has been made by councillor kilby seconded by council vice president all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it item three jerry ires of 457 locust street for the removal of curving is there a motion to open motions made by councillor lee seconded by council of peckham all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it jerry ire is a 457
8:12locust street for the removal of curbing as follows the petitioner has an existing 11.9 foot driveway and is requesting the removal of an additional 8.7 feet to the east side of the existing driveway for for a total of 20.6 foot opening this curb removal will allow for three cars to be taken off the street larger openings will allow for cars to back onto locust street calling all proponents wishing to speak
8:40on this item calling all proponents calling all opponents wishing to speak calling all opponents adam clerk anything written no i'm sorry you are you're a proponent correct so you're in favor you can go to the mic and speak in favor of the of the petition please uh yes i'm in favor um this is right across the street from the citizens for citizens day care center and it causes issues
9:07going in and out of the driveway being so narrow with people pop so close and it's i feel it should be allowed thank you very much thank you hearing all proponents and opponents and nothing further motion to close made by councillor kilby seconded by council of peckham all those in favor all right oppose the eyes have it thank you item number that would be it motion should we during our public hearings
9:35made by council at least seconded by councillor dion all those in favor all right oppose the ice habit so what happens now just so you know what happens is
10:02former city council committee on finance will now be called to order madam clerk counselors kadeem here dion here kilby libby lebeau here lee here peckham pierre pelletier yeah pereira here and president here pursuant to the open meeting laura any person make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised as such recordings or
10:25transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible first item on our agenda this evening is citizens input only one person signed up to speak alexander silver of 263 pine street regarding the tiff and the residence at north river chris hello uh alexander silva 263 pine street members of the city council if residents
10:50are expected to shoulder a higher share of the tax burden for private development it should only serve the best interests of the city when the residences at north river project was first proposed for the circa 1887 sagamore mill building at 148th street the plan was to redevelop the mill into 146 apartments at a time when fall river residents are more concerned with housing a tax break
11:13for 146 new units would have provided a benefit to the city while preserving a historic landmark in the community but a tax break to rehab the mill was never applied for the owner abandoned the plan saying his estimate of 20 million dollars to redevelop the sagamore mill into apartments was too much but now he asked for a tax break on a 19 million dollar project if the cost to redevelop the mill was a
11:36deciding factor how will this project change again when it begins and the costs are adjusted after the winter with existing space still vacant throughout our downtown and other mills does the new plan to build new office and commercial and industrial space provide any new benefits to the community the main benefit presented to the tif board on december 8th was that this project would create jobs with the
11:58applicant only required to create 25 jobs at the location but this is a very low bar for a third of a million dollars in lost revenue to the city especially when the project is already responsible for eliminating jobs after at least half a dozen local business tenants were kicked out of the mill so it could be demolished if the only requirement for the tax break is restoring the jobs it lost does
12:19this project justify a task a tax break especially when the city saw the applicant threaten legal action against fall river for the durfee hvac project he admitted his own company messed up what guarantees do residents have that the 316 251 dollar tax break for this project will benefit them rather than rewarding people for tearing down historic buildings to make the largest profit we should reward projects
12:44that seek to improve fall river's existing assets and take residents into consideration how does another strip mall factor into the connected and walkable waterfront or the vision presented in the city's master plan and urban renewal plans does this project serve the city's best interests enough to ask residents to front a 316 bill for it thank you sincerely the board of directors of the preservation society of
13:07fall river thank you very much uh next item on our agenda is a discussion with the tiff agreements for the residents at north river as well as millstone medical outsourcing mr fayola
13:30and you can take both of them together mr philo if you like classes here so i can see what's going on um good evening council uh council president members of the city council uh thank you for allowing me the opportunity to come before you tonight to discuss the two projects at hand the first project on your agenda is the residences at north river llc this project will consist of the development of four new buildings
14:03totaling an estimated 297 000 square feet of developable space and representing a private investment of 19 million dollars on land located at 148th street florida mass it's anticipated the tenants of the building will represent industrial commercial and professional uses and would result in a creation of more than more than 25 new jobs by the tenants of the property this is noted in the attached tif
14:28agreement that you have before you the local incentive valuation the proposed term of the tiff agreement is for a period of five years and the developer will be afforded a 50 tax savings during this frame time frame the project and associated 19 million dollars of private sector investment has taken place within the city of fall river waterfront urban renewal plan and census tract 6421 which has a poverty level of 24
14:55um this this project appeared before the tif board uh last week received the unanimous uh consent uh and approval of the uh the tif board and it's being brought to you tonight for your approval um just in general you know there's a tremendous demand uh for the space availability right now um you know i i don't want to be contradictory to any other beliefs in a city that there's a lot of space
15:24available the city is extremely tight on space right now if we you know i could easily fill probably anywhere between i don't know say 200 to 400 000 square feet of space if it was available today in terms of um space that's being designed and could accommodate professional industrial and commercial use typically this space would represent a space that's you know on one level it has loading docks it has ample
15:54off-street parking and it has the ability to accommodate different types of uses the lack of space availability within the city right now is actually a hindrance to economic development because we're losing out on economic development projects that would be creating jobs throughout the city so the utilization of the site for the development of these types of properties i think will help offset
16:18some of the demand that's out there and will result in a minimum of 25 jobs obviously i think the 25 jobs is a very conservative number um but we don't want to you know get to the point where you're over promising the number of jobs but i do believe 25 is is a minimal number that could be accommodated down there if you look at the location which i'm sure many of you have been by
16:42you know there's other development that's occurring within that area everything from the the star facility to the marijuana facility that's currently there that's now is no longer doing retail but it's just more of a growth facility um you also the the trina building behind there is being utilized for manufacturing purposes this space fits within the context of the other tenants within that area and
17:10while it may not be used for housing which was the original intent of the the owner you know things change you know the cost of development housing is very expensive you know so even at 146 units or 126 whatever was the initial proposal the rule of thumb for these units is anywhere between 275 to 325 000 per unit so even at 100 units you're looking you know probably close to 30 million dollars of investment
17:40and yeah that's a extremely large number especially when you don't have the necessary tax credits to help offset it so and the h-dip program which is no longer in uh no longer available through the state along in the same condition conditions and terms than it was previously so you have this piece of property down there as all tiffs the the taxable value of that piece of land is going to remain as is they'll
18:06always be paying that tax revenue the new revenue payment to the city will be based upon the new development and that's for you know that's for a period of five years and over that five year period the city will receive approximately 346 000 of new taxes and the developer will also be saving approximately 346 thousand dollars in savings to help offset the overall cost of development which is estimated
18:33to be 19 million dollars be happy to answer any questions uh we also have the owner of the property here with us uh tonight dwight silva council on seat three councillor kilby you guys had most of my questions 99.9 percent of the time i support these tests when you say that 25 jobs it was a permanent job those are perfect jobs yeah um i mean can you estimate it and
18:55how many jobs people are going to be employed in terms of the i know it's a tough question so it all depends it all depends on the tenants that are there so you have the construction jobs that are going to be associated with the project but the actual the full-time permanent jobs on there you know it could easily be closer to 75 to 100 right but i we always like to take you
19:15know a conservative approach here because you don't want to over promise and and you know under the deliver so in this particular instance because we don't know exactly who the tenants are it's going to be put up as spec buildings uh the the tenants will determine we'll will determine the actual uh job creation number just another quick thing too i know council berg brings us up quite often as we
19:36still have the clause uh and the forgiveness pick it up in the agreement but fall for residents have preference yes uh forward preference a former residents have preference and also if there's a failure to create the jobs the city has the right to rescind the tif thank you yeah are you constituent c5 council elite uh you estimated 346 thousand dollars in tax revenue over the next five years
19:57uh five yes so that would be the tax savings to the developer as well as the amount of revenue uh coming to the city but not that's not um what they would be paying that's not totaled in is what they would be paying for the next five years and property taxes correct or commercial taxes yeah so they'd be paying whatever the land value is that remains uh st you know that remains um taxable
20:21this is a new growth and we're estimating that the developer will save 346 000 and he he will also be paying 346 000. so we we we still have more coming in on top of that depending on what the commercial tax rate is that's correct so that's based upon that's based upon today's current tax uh rate and it's also based upon comparables so the you know it could come in higher than that i think one you
20:48know obviously one of there's always back back and forth on tips but i have to say that i i mostly supported tiff's as well because i think it's a competitive market right i think that there's a lot of places around us that can make uh you know buying property affordable and fall river when it when it came to amazon and things like that we had to compete with other places around here so i think if
21:10we can you know build business through this method then we should probably do so so and at the end of five years whatever so right now if nothing changed at the end of five years you'd be the city would be receiving over seven hundred and twenty thousand dollars once once the tiff um expires right i mean some some places have in the past have sort of packed up and left at the end of a tif
21:34no not not many you know there's um and actually if they pack up and leave during the tif then the property becomes fully taxable at that point there's only probably been a han and actually when they leave and somebody reoccupies their property it's actually beneficial to the city because then they're paying the full tax the full tax burden right so there hasn't been many you know many companies
21:54um that have done that you know companies usually go into these things with the best intentions that they're going to stay there sometimes market conditions or management of the company may force them out of business but they typically they typically do not go into these deals thinking that they're going to you know try to take advantage of the city and the way the tips are structured now
22:17i mean even if they leave they can also recapture the the benefits that were given to them i want to do my absolute best to make sure i stand on the topic here but yeah what goes into when a when a company initially begins saying they're going to do this type of business or this type of you know purchase and then they change it in the middle how does that work towards the tiff
22:39agreement does that do you have to start from scratch all over again is that what happened yeah so if you do so if in fact the property was going to be utilized for its original intent of for residential i would probably be here before you asking for a tax increment exemption as opposed to a tax increment finance right because the exemption applies to residential the tif the finance applies
23:03to the the businesses so in in either event we'd be coming to the city to try to offset some of the development costs the problem that we have to in today's market is you know the some of the incentives being offered by the state are no longer there there was the h-dip program which has been utilized the housing development improvement program which has been utilized in all the recent um
23:28mill conversions for residential and you know for instance commonwealth landing got a 1.9 million dollar h-dip award adam's house got 1.5 the residents in duval street got 1.5 and that money is very important to offset the overall cost of these projects now it's without that it's becoming more difficult to util to develop these projects and so we can assume that that's that wasn't
23:53available with this particular problem okay thank you thank you thank you concern cd councillor pereira and the only thing that i'd i'd like to have mr fiola elaborate on is the fact that if this is commercial industrial space how much space do we have of an industrial park versus a small business coming in and what they want because you know we hear well there's empty stores throughout the city but what are
24:19these particular people looking for when they come in that other places don't offer other uh vacant buildings don't work so that's a good question so if you know if you haven't done so i would encourage you all to take a ride through the industrial park um the park is almost at 100 occupancy with the exception of the lavalier building uh which ironically today i did have a conversation
24:45confidential conversation with um an entity that's looking to purchase it and would be using utilizing it for business purposes obviously and creating a significant number of jobs there but that's a big bill that's about 300 000 square feet and that's going to be under agreement shortly according to the conversation today if you take that building out of the equation in terms of vacancies at
25:08the park we're almost 100 full there really is not any buildings that are available for for lease i'm working with a couple of companies up there right now that could use another fifty thousand square feet could use another hundred thousand square feet but there's not a lot of land availability there to accommodate that we are in the process of redeveloping the technology park um they're going through a permitting
25:33process right now to accommodate another 900 000 square feet of development down at the park itself so that will give us a little bit of leeway in terms of doing some of the bigger deals but for the the smaller companies what companies want today is very simple they want to have a single story facility they want to have concrete floors they would like to have off-street parking they'd like to have
26:01um loading docks and those are the types of buildings that sell right now or lease out the utilization of the upper floors of the mills for industrial purposes it's just not working you know the space is not conducive to the types of businesses that are looking to expand or relocate that's why we've been converting a lot of these mills over to residential so we our inability to accommodate
26:29the demand that's out there for buildings that are 25 to 50 000 square feet is actually causing us to stagnate growth of local companies looking to expand and also stagnating new businesses from coming into the city because we don't have any available real estate to accommodate that that's why this project here represents the ability to help local companies expand relocate and also attract new companies to the area
26:57thank you mr fayol i know we had talked about that during the tip meeting but i thought that that was important for people to see what businesses are looking for coming into the community and what this city has to offer thank you with that i yield mr thank you counselor counselor in seat four council vice president thank you my question was asked and answered thank you councillor in c1 council kadeem
27:19thank you mr president uh mr filo just can i just get some clarification on on the project itself so this is essentially a commercial build out now so there's going to be leasing to industrial commercial or professional use okay so just in terms of typically when we do the um the tiffs we have a company that's coming before us so they can kind of guarantee the the jobs right so it's
27:41it's like you know when uh amazon came in obviously they're gonna be hiring here where we've got essentially a developer opening up space how do we i guess how do we um guarantee i guess the the job creations so in the tip agreement themselves the developer is going to have to have each individual business report on a job creation on a quarterly basis that will be sent to the assessor's office
28:05so that there's a uh you know you can track the actual jobs that have been created years ago so is he going i guess before is he when he's looking at the tenants is he going to be i guess making um i guess reviewing the tenants that are coming in just to see what jobs are being created in there i mean that would be part of the evaluation correct they're not going to
28:25you know chances are you're not going to have um twenty five thousand dollars be uh twenty five thousand square feet or so being utilized just as a storage facility creating one job right so they understand he understands that this is based upon job creation so he'll ha and in today's marketplace he'll have his selection of tenants that will be you know looking to locate into this
28:48facility and then he'll be able to pick and choose which ones are the biggest job creators for the for the tif now are these new jobs in the sense of and the only reason i ask new jobs versus i guess existing jobs if you're going from the from rhode island over to massachusetts so if you've got a company that's coming in from rhode island moving their business into fall river would that be considered and they're
29:09bringing just say 25 employees over would that be considered 25 new positions or if it's if it's a new company creating new jobs it's new positions if it's an existing company that's moving into the space different state from a different state so it's any if you really relocate jobs from a different state into this state the state treats those as new jobs okay if for instance you are
29:34a company that's already located in the city and you're employing 10 people and you're locating in this space that would not be created consider new jobs it would have to be in addition to the jobs that you currently have right and do we have estimates and i know there are rough estimates because obviously we don't know who the tenants are going to be but in terms of estimated salaries
29:52that we can anticipate for the for the i do not have that yeah that's just based on the use yeah right yep okay but i just uh this is a little bit different because um this is a tif only so there's no state tax credits being allocated here and they changed the state regulations uh two three years ago where now you don't actually you can get a tip only without creating any new jobs
30:21so rather than going down that you know that direction we've agreed to at least create a minimum of 25 jobs okay with that i yield thank you thank you counselor counseling c2 counselor dion good evening how are you good evening so 290 000 uh 297 000 square feet the building's similar in size yeah they're um yeah they're pretty similar in size yet four different buildings yep okay so basically um we're talking if
30:52they fill these buildings with tenants um we're looking at initially 6.25 uh employees per building potentially and they're pretty fairly large buildings but that's a fairly large building and undertaking for a minimal number of employees um it depends so you've got some buildings the in the industrial park that actually have less employees per square foot than that um is there a time frame for vetting and
31:24them approving the tenants that they may take in so the tip is for a period of five years if the tif actually um becomes valid once there's a certificate of occupancy issued for the building so if you were to approve this tonight um the tif would not begin until the building is issued a certificate of occupancy by the building inspector that's when the time frame would would um would initiate and then
31:53they have that five-year period in which to create the jobs i let me see in the tiff agreement here hold on just check it real quick
32:39typically we look to have those jobs created within a three-year period i'm just looking at this real quickly here
32:55if that is not in here we can include that into the tiff agreement so that we don't want to have the jobs created all at the end we want to get them up front right and then maintained if that if that paragraph is not in here we can add that language to this because this is still a draft okay so theoretically we could approve it with that needing to be amended before it would be actually be
33:18fully approved that is yeah so you could approve it tonight subject to that being incorporated here which we would incorporate and then it would be reviewed by legal counsel and before it's signed so so the tif actually doesn't kick in until the building is occupied is that what you're saying that that's correct that's that's when the schedule begins yeah okay so what amount what so what taxes are paid between
33:44the original groundbreaking the development and then the occupy so you have the the taxable value of the land continues on and in some instances the assessors will assess a building under construction and so there's a possibility of that occurring as well because that may have a taxable value it all depends how quickly the building goes up sometimes on a larger buildings they'll do that smaller buildings
34:11it's usually you know they go up so quickly they don't get to that point but that's a possibility okay because i'm assuming also i mean maybe not i would think and i could be incorrect that they would be doing one building at a time as opposed to all of them they're going to do what they're going to do two and two okay um i think that's all my questions for now thank you i yield
34:35thank you uh any further questions to mr fiola on these two tips a and b a n b constant seat eight customers on um on b on the millstone medical outsourcing um just a quick overview on that that they were sold and it's somebody another company is coming in and picking up on the tip or just just uh just a quick analysis there so millstone medical is a company that we actually recruited to the city
35:06probably back in the early 90s they started off with 25 employees down on north main street in the narragansett mill um they subsequently have grown to now employ hundreds of employees uh their primary location is at the commerce park uh where they own two properties at that location they are in the process of selling the company itself um to a company that's called bear with me one second
35:40acacp arlington arlington capital partners arlington capital partners is looking to take ownership of the tif which gives them the same rights and obligations that millstone have in the initial tiff agreement the tiff agreement had millstone medical creating an additional uh 200 jobs which arlington would then be held accountable for and all the terms and conditions of the original tip
36:07would be transferred to arlington so what you have here before you tonight is a resolution to approve um the transfer of the tif from millstone to arlington capital partners and an ascent of an uh sent to assign the tax increment financing agreement uh from milson by through the city and millstone to arlington capital partners thank you without a yield thank you anything further constant c2
36:37council dion i just have one question on millstone um so arlington would be picking it up where it is at this point or it would be starting to start no picking enough for where it is at this point so whatever time has expired correct is expired that's right and it's a yes that is correct yep okay well how many how many employees has millstone added since that tif was a so right now millstone applies excuse me
37:00employs 271 at the time of the tiff agreement they applied 200 and employed 271 full-time permanent employees and they've agreed to create an additional 100 full-time jobs okay and this was executed sorry it's on my phone here but i just let me say this was executed um 11 29 18 and the schedule let me see what the schedule is i think it was an eight-year tif yep so they still so um they still got some
37:43time it was actually a have started in excuse me it's only the fy july 1st 2020 and it expires fy 2032 was a 10 year tiff um again for clarification i'm sorry you said initially millstone had to add 200 jobs that was part of the tiff agreement it was a hundred i'm sorry they employed to they maintained 271 and creating an additional hundred okay so in the so in the three years they
38:13haven't added employees yeah they have over that period i don't have exactly how many they've employed that would be they submit those reports directly to the city okay on a quarterly basis so the new company would just have to make up the difference yes or if they haven't if they've already if they've already created the 100 then they're going to retain them for the duration of the tiff yep okay
38:33thank you thank you thank you anything further uh hearing that no further questions before mr fiola that will make a motion to adjourn our committee on finances made by councillor kilby seconded by council of pereira all those in favor opposed the ice habit thank you thank you very much and happy holidays happy holidays to you grandpa or city council meeting now being called to order madam clerk roll call please
38:58counselors kadeem yeah dionne here kilby yeah lady lebeau lee here peckham here pelletier yeah herrera yeah and president ponti here if everybody in the chamber can please rise for a moment of silent prayer could we make this silent prayer in honor of the two gentlemen that we lost this this past week mike nunes and john torres yes thank you thank you and a salute to the flag i pledge allegiance to the flag of the
39:30united states of america and to the republic for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice pursuant to the open meeting lauren a person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are
39:52deemed acknowledged and permissible madam clark the first item before you is the mayor's request for the re-appointment of richard calderon to the community preservation committee motion to confirm the appointment made by councillor pereira seconded by coliseum pelletier discussion hearing on all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it item number two are the tiff agreements the first for the residences at north
40:20river llc at 140 ace street motion to adopt motion to adjust uh motion to adopt 2a has been made by councilor kadeem second seconded by council of pereira is their discussion hearing none all those in favor opposed the ice have it to be motioned to adopt motion to adopt millstone medical outsourcing llc second made by council of kadeem seconded by council of pereira all those in favor aye opposed the ice habit
40:53item number three is the mayor's communication and proposed ordinance regarding the director of human resources motion referred to ordinance would be appropriate made by councillor kilby secretary councillor dion all those in favor aye opposed the ice habit item four is the mayor's communication and proposed ordinance regarding the commission of cemeteries entries has been made by councillor dion
41:17seconded by council of pereira discussion harry none all those in favor opposed the ice habit and item five is the mayor's communication and proposed ordinance regarding the deputy police chief motion referred to ordinance has been made by councillor kilby seconded by councillor dion discussion hearing none all those in favor aye opposed the ice habit the traffic commission recommending
41:40amendments to the traffic ordinances what's your third ordinance motion to refer to ordinance has been made by council councillor kilby seconded by councillor peckham discussion hearing none all those in favor opposed the ice happen have the updated redistricting map from the board of election commissioners motion to approve motion to approve the redistricting made by council of kadeem seconded by council of peckham
42:03discussion hearing none all those in favor opposed the eyes of it the committee on regulations at a meeting held on december 7th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying order be adopted pending approval of the fire chief we were notified today oh this is the second hand article store for robert bagley at 1649 south main street we were notified by the fire chief this afternoon
42:28that this is not yet um approved there it is still pending the fire chief's approval constant c3 council kilby uh clarify i'm going to ask my colleagues to table us to linux meeting um there were two conditions that had to be met on the part of this business owner number one fire extinguishers which have been completed and the second um there was amen uh changes to the heating system what had to be done and that
42:52has not been done i just want to motion the table motion a table has been made by councillor lee seconded by council of pekka i'm just uh hearing no all those in favor can i finish though oh i'm so sorry oh great can i finish what i was gonna say yeah let you yes i'll let you speak right afterwards motion to table has been made and seconded all those in favor oppose the
43:12i7 i'll allow you to speak because it's a regulations item sometimes i like to finish my sentences before your second emotion so anything further item nine thank you madam clerk item nine please the committee on regulations at a meeting held on december 7th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying order be adopted this was the order repair shop license for rodrigo takash located at 192 18th street
43:42i do want to mention that we did receive a letter on friday from in a butter this a butter did not receive their notice in time but i did want to mention that they did appear at our office they did not meet the deadline obviously um to object to to this but i did want to bring it up to the council because they did have issue with this um with the granting of this has this gone
44:04through regulations yet yes it has already gone through the hearing process and the regulations constituency three councils thank you mr president yes we had a full hearing on it the gentleman here and um everything uh passed council peckham council byron myself so everything was approved to adopt second motion to adopt has been made by council of pereira seconded by council ali is their discussion harry none uh
44:29counseling c2 council dion just a question um what why why they weren't notified in a timely fashion or didn't receive it in time to object this is the this is the uh the neighbor madam clark yes you have any further thoughts on that madam clark they um we did send out the notice by registered mail they didn't pick up their registered mail okay so it was by no fault of ours they were notified in time
44:56they just didn't pick up their videos okay very good thank you iu thank you very much hearing no further discussions all those in favor opposed the eyes have it all set thank you the committee on ordinances and legislation at a meeting held on december 7th voted three years one may to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance be passed through first reading as amended with counselor
45:20lee voting in the negative and counsel kadeem absent and not voting these were the salary amendments motion to reject motion to reject has been made by a counselor deion seconded by council the peckham is their discussion councilman seat two councilor dion yeah i'd like to uh just clarify i voted yes to send it here but my reason was i felt it was time for it to get out of committee action needs to be taken i think
45:46some discussion should still take place i don't feel that we're in a position as a city to afford these salary increases i think some of them are a little lopsided we did make some amendments but i feel like more amendments could have been made um you know we have a 30 000 average per capita income in this city i get that this city doesn't pay what others do but other cities their per capita income is
46:17also higher i just don't feel comfortable or feel right and some of the limits i get when people say okay well it doesn't have to go to the the highest amount in in the salary schedule but the fact remains it can i think some of the inc i think some of the um increases are larger than they should be and i just cannot rest comfortably and agree with doing it at a time where we're
46:46having budgetary problems we can't afford what we have and now we're going to do increases without further new revenue further expense cutting um etc i just think there just needs to be more conversation and we need to be a little more proactive in other areas with that i yield counsel at c5 council league yeah the ordinance meeting actually if we for remembering now that's probably the last
47:12meeting we will have with um mrs hardy um but that there was some interesting uh conversation going back and forth uh during that meeting where um you know some of the people were saying that you know our salaries are not comparable to places around us um i voted no to pretty much everything that came across the board when it came to this because i just felt as though we're not looking at this from uh the
47:34correct lens if we're worried about the salary of someone in another town then we're not looking at the uh intricate details of of why fall river struggles um you know with with with its uh tax base um the people you know we have a very different overall family income um single in family income uh from from many other places around us that can um just sort of give the raises out the way
48:00that they are um we have different um burdens we have cso projects we have uh you know several other different challenges in the city uh that that puts us in a different financial situation in some other places um so keeping up with the joneses as they say i don't think we can afford to do that you know so i feel as though we have to go in a different direction and um with that i yield thank
48:22you thank you counselor and c4 council vice president thank you so i just wanted to point out that just because we make amendments to the salary schedule is something that we do every three years so that we're not out of ordinance it is what is in the line item in the budget that is what their salary is set at so we have the ability when we have the budget to make amendments at that time it
48:48doesn't mean that they're going to go to the top tier they can't they have to go by what is the line item um in the budget so that i yield thank you constancy one council of kadeem thank you i i appreciate the sentiments that are being made and unfortunately i wasn't available to make the ordinance committee because of uh family commitment however um and i don't know which positions we're talking about so
49:12i guess i reserve the right to say i don't necessarily disagree with the uh my colleagues but i think when we start talking about salaries and and this is where we lose sight of it and it's not keeping up with the joneses um we fail to realize that by not having the proper department heads and the employees we end up costing the taxpayers more money we constantly look at other communities and say why are
49:37they so efficient why are they able to come up with innovative ideas and that only comes through hiring the right individuals at the right job to perform the duties that are required in the service and provide the services that the city of far river is is asking for so if we're constantly going to be um you know not competitive with salaries um then we're just going to continue to
50:03expect what we get right we haven't been able to fill a city administrator position and the reason is is there's more responsibility in the city of florida than any other community so if we're not going to pay for that there is nobody in their right mind in terms of qualifications that's going to be willing to come down and provide the functions as a city administrator not having a an efficient and effective city
50:24administrator creates problems long-term problems from strategic planning to accountability across the board uh we've got a cfo position if we're not going to compete with the city of new bedford there is a lack and this is and this is the reality of situation there is a lack of candidates in the public center right now in the public sector right now there are more vacancies just go to the
50:48mma website you will see position after position after position that is open for either town administrators city administrators cfos treasurers accountants i mean things that are vital to a municipality and they're not able to fill it i mean you look at the city of new bedford they're advertising a cfo for 170 000 they have a headhunter who is actively seeking to get that position filled and
51:13the city of new bedford is not able to get that filled as it currently stands and so if we're not going to be competitive with the positions that we have then i think we're just going to be in the same boat i think the conversation that needs to be had and this is something that i've been saying is that there are positions that are in these salary tables that number one are pretty much non-existent
51:34that we should be eliminating i think there are there are positions that we should try to make sure that there's more of an identified job description and role and responsibility for these positions so that we can set the expectations in terms of the positions and and the quality of candidates that we're looking to to put in these positions but i think for a long time the city of fall river has been
51:57plagued with the and it's systemic it's not just with this administration on the prior administrations but there were political hires that that would put forward and now we're just starting to try to catch up and get to a point where we're treating this as a a business and not a a patronage right so that we want qualified people and if you if you want to attract qualified people we're
52:17competing with the private sector and that's the reality of the situation and we're never going to be able to compete with the private sector 100 from a salary standpoint but we need to be able to compete with other public entities um i just you know at the end of the day there there are town administrators making way more money with less responsibility in smaller communities and if we're not willing to
52:42make adjustments then we're just going to constantly be you know struggling to fire find the right people in the positions that are needed that's that's just my take i i i live it on a on a daily basis just trying to get the best qualified individuals because i know what it means to have the right people in the right positions it reduces the municipalities exposure in terms of liability from employment liability
53:09lawsuits you know i could run the gamut on on you know what having a bad department head can lead to uh in terms of municipality for for financial exposure and and the inefficiencies that um get provided in terms of the services so i for one would like to see this either get resubmitted by the the uh the administration with a a clear priority on on positions that we feel we need to
53:35to improve and i've said this before i think we need a competitive analysis in terms of salary but also other other benefits that are that are included where are we with the health care we pay 75 25. you look at a community like dartmouth they're at 51 you know 49 so we need to take that all into consideration when we start looking at salaries and that's where we start talking about making sure we're
53:56competitive with other communities so if we have a lower salary but we have better benefits from health care in terms of the city pays 75 percent of the health care versus another community that we're looking at and they only pay 50 then okay you can justify a lower salary but if you've got a community that's paying a higher salary and they're paying less for health care then something's wrong and we've got to make
54:17that adjustment if not we're just not going to be able to compete and get the most qualified individuals and i think at the end of the day that's that's really the most important uh aspect but that's what i would like the the administration to do a true analysis and then eliminate the positions uh that have been vacant that we number one don't even know what their real uh job description is in terms of you know
54:39the functions that they're performing uh so let's eliminate that and streamline the uh the overall ordinance so with that i yield thank you counselor in seat seven councillor pelletier yeah first of all i'll get this sheet in front of me not to exceed not to exceed but i would like to have what they getting at present time compared to not to exceed was that your mission or i was supposed to know that it's here
55:11it's here oh that cheat okay all right and then i'd like to say uh the cfo and the city administrator uh if you don't pay them you're not going to get them you know that and you got to pay some of these jobs are going to be separated and and decide what we're going to uh you got the sewing water uh you're looking for more money of course uh a lot of different uh places in
55:41in the state that pay much more money uh mr fillings here and yeah well you want to get 140 whatever the case may be some of the other communities are paying 160 170 up to 200 000.
55:54uh here's a guy that was brought up the right way he knows the job he knows uh where the water what the tunnels is everything he knows everything about it so you try to keep them guys so he had lost two people uh i'm to understand that one has come back so i assist him tonight well do you get punished no only kidding did he get punished oh no well uh he's not
56:22he's going to stop from the beginning oh come on give me a break where's he going to stop in the beginning he's coming back i don't know how long he was out or whatever the case may be but you're trying to keep in good will and good faith all right you're coming back go back to where you are don't stop at step one uh and start going up the ladder again i
56:44mean the guy could get discouraged they held with this and that's what i would do but uh sometimes things are not right uh we don't think uh who's ideas for him to start there again it doesn't make any sense to me but uh some of these jobs you're gonna have to pay a little more that's what you're gonna do uh to maintain and keep the people on board and and then you you've got you know
57:10you see these big numbers and they're big numbers you know hundred thousand hundred ten thousand and then you see a few of these not to exceed 45 you get a lot of girls in the city all that don't make good money they don't make good money at all and then you hear from them you know they're getting all kinds of raisins and all kinds of raisins and we got trouble
57:30getting a percent and a half if we're lucky or we'll skip this year next year we'll give you a one and a half percent one and a half percent they're coming to work every day and they work i mean they deserve more money i mean if you're working for 36 38 come on you know it's just not right they think everybody here in the city of fall river a city worker that works in the city hall
57:57is making a lotta a lot of money let me tell you some of these people are not making a lot of money some of these people's got families to feed and everything else it's tough out there it's tough out there so you know we have to think which way you want to go you have to think uh which jobs you want to maintain by paying these people the right amount of money
58:20nobody wants to hear we're gonna give raises out uh the people making a hundred thousand hundred ten thousand but some of these jobs we have to give more money to keep them on board and get the job done uh and and many years ago uh you had the treasure that was here for 30 years you have people here for 35 years or 40 years we kept them why did we keep them because we took
58:46care of them they gave them a little raise every once in a while he had a few perks and so on and so forth so that's what we have to do to keep people right now the city is a mess as far as i'm concerned uh a lot of people that we have to hire and we just can't get them because you're not paying the right amount of money and uh that's it we seem
59:07to be getting deeper deep in the hole uh pretty soon we're gonna we'll change every department head the way i see it you know but it's it's we have to do what we have to do that's all so people are going to understand that to keep people you got to pay them with that idea thank you counselor and seat a counselor pereira no i i have to agree uh we're not getting people to even
59:34come in for positions that we have available and i think the mma i mean look at water department you have to have certain uh certificates certain approvals to certain levels to be able to work within the filtration plant and you know we lost a very good director there for eight thousand dollars and then we had to go and hire a company to come in and we're paying them 25 000 a month so for three months
1:00:04that they're going to be here for 75 000 rather than pay the 8 000 more to keep a director that is financially crazy to do um a mechanic i mean we all have automobiles go and get your car repaired we know that it costs money to get your car repaired and you want to get a good mechanic they're making good money so who's going to take care of our police cruisers and you know our city
1:00:28vehicles but we can't afford even a mechanic a city administrator a friend of mine is a city administrator in a smaller area making 215 000 a year and we're what a 140 who's going to come for 140 you should at least bump it up to 180 190. i mean we have to do that to get qualified people and i think experience matters engineers with opera funding a lot of the engineers are doing consulting work
1:00:56they're making more money than they would have been here but i think if you have people in those key positions i think counselor and seat one said that then they have the time to go out and look for innovative ways and cost-saving measures that type of thing i think that those things happen so you know i agree certainly we can send it back and have them look this over have administration
1:01:17look this over and i would like to see it come back when we do have a cfo or a city administrator to go over all of this with that i yield thank you thank you and before i acknowledge it to the councils that already spoke i just want to weigh in on this uh very very quickly and everybody's aware so the city administrator's position is a contracted position right so it does it's not
1:01:36included in here and a lot of the things counselors at least from my opinion are talking about is union positions which also aren't isn't on here so i i'm just i'd like to see this get back to ordinance as well because quite frankly um we have a revenue problem in fall river we have some problems i mean that's not going away and there's going to be some you know the campaign season's over but
1:02:02we have a debt exclusion coming up on our books next year real estate taxes is a year behind we're going to start seeing that is there a fee coming is there not a fee coming we have tough decisions need to be made but we don't have the revenue so when we have this all these executive and managerial positions before us not to exceed not to exceed i i think that's a big problem and i
1:02:23think ordinance really needs to dig deep and if it's going to take ordinance committee six months to do it then so it be but you need to be careful with this and not stream not not misunderstand the fact that the unions might need to get a raise or the afscme union might need to get a raise or the water department you uh might need to get a raise whatever union they are but these aren't union
1:02:45positions these are department heads or division managers or chiefs who are in the union so you could i just personally think there's a revenue problem and i don't think we should be increasing positions until you figure out how you're going to get the revenue counseling one council of the kingdom thank you and i just actually want to clarify my comments because i know i said you know city administrator and cfo
1:03:06i mean those those were the talking points that i was going to but it goes right down to the line and i think counselor and seat seven hit the nail on the head we're talking about clerical position okay union position the bottom line though is that there are public entities that are paying bonuses sign on bonuses to get people into their community now we start talking about trades people
1:03:28whether they're in the union or not in the union if we don't keep them with the competitive salary then they're going elsewhere which then means we're going to have to go out and get vendors then the vendors are going to charge us prevailing wage which is 30 higher at least at a minimum if not more than what we would have we would be able to provide somebody internally so that in itself is
1:03:49inefficient and actually costs the taxpayers more money because we're not paying competitive salary so we're constantly going out prevailing wage massachusetts general law requires that okay so if anybody has ever looked at the prevailing wage scale schedule and actually looked at the work that we have folks performing in-house tasks on it it is at least 30 to 50 percent less than
1:04:12what what they're making at an hourly rate so right off the bat that's where we're going we start looking at and i appreciate the the revenue piece it's it's the reality but we legitimately have a problem with being able to hire people to do the jobs that we need you go to police right now with the police reform law you're not going to pay police officers enough to go into this profession with
1:04:36all the new requirements that have now just put on been put on because of police reform nobody wants to do that there there are officers who have been career officers who are all about public safety their family has been in public safety they're looking at an exit strategy they're talking about how do i get out of this industry within the next five to ten years making that shift that's on
1:04:55the police side fireside you wanna i've i've got seven open positions right now in the fire department in seacock trying to fill those nearly impossible nobody wants to be a firefighter anymore okay and quite frankly that's working 24 so they're only working eight days a month okay and i understand it's a difficult task but there is nobody willing to do that okay you want to go to a building
1:05:16inspector it took me three years just to get a building inspector because everybody is currently retiring the real estate market is so hot they they make more money in the private sector you cannot find a building inspector right now so now what you're doing is is you're having you're contracting with other building inspectors for other communities to come in and you're paying a premium on this
1:05:37and it goes on and on and on so right from the clerical uh to custodial staff to police to fire to all the executives and i don't disagree i think we need to because i was i was one that was very vocal about that we shouldn't be adding assistance to assistance to assistance we need to be looking at streamlining the the organizational flowchart and making sure that we have people performing the jobs that are needed
1:05:58however with that being said we also can ignore that we need to pay people this is this is we we've got fortune 500 companies who don't have budgets as big as ours we've got 360 million dollars right and that's not that's just the operating budget forget about all the enterprise funds and and all these other funds that we use for grants and everything else i mean the amount of money that comes in and that we're
1:06:22responsible for on a yearly basis is astronomical and i would i would challenge anybody in business to tell me that they are not willing to pay proper salaries to get the right people there's not a business person in this city that would tell me that maybe they want to cheap out and try to pay less but the quality is not going to be there right and when the quality is not there
1:06:45then you get more headaches but i'm telling you right now to retain people we need to pay them properly i'm not saying that we need to be at the high end of the salaries but we need to be competitive and it comes back to retention because you have you have investments into people in terms of historic knowledge trainings that have been done and to to my colleague in cd who said that or seven
1:07:06who said that people are leaving for eight thousand dollars that is that's a that's hard to replace and we talked about you know the water and sewer department okay we can sit here and talk about the fact that terry sullivan is coming back on sundays on overtimes but at the end of the day we've got nobody who has the license who we can fill the position and it's like so do we shut down
1:07:28the uh sewer department in the ward upon because we don't have people with licenses so in order to get somebody with the license we need to pay them more money right we need to be operational 24 7. so we can't just sit in our little box saying okay you know what fall river and it's unfortunate the per capita is what it is we need to we need to as elected officials need to work
1:07:48with part of the master plan work with the school department to to make sure that our educational attainments are higher and that we're we're bringing in business that will help to drive that i mean we just approved tips we're trying to do our very best to to bring in businesses so that we're increasing the uh job retention and the quality of jobs that are here but at the same time we
1:08:06can't lose sight of what we're doing in-house and that's all i'm saying i think there's a happy medium that needs to be fixed that can be made here but i think it's going to take a lot of work to your point i think it literally is you know a six-month process this isn't what we're going to be dealing with immediately it doesn't happen next week next month but i think if there are
1:08:25important positions that need to get addressed then maybe they come down uh piecemeal one at a time so that we can go through this entire list and truly vet it uh with the understanding that we've got to be fiscally responsible in making sure that we're not going you know again to the highest uh level possible but i but i think what we often do is we put limitations on the administration and when you're trying to
1:08:48hire people it's like okay not to exceed on this not to exceed on that it's a contract but we're gonna do this so i think we need to we need to and i've said this before we need to value the positions that we have we need to understand what they're responsible for and we need to place a value on them and once we do that then i think we have a
1:09:03good a good balance of where we need to be so with that i yield thank you counselor nc to counsel the deal yeah my final comment will be that to a certain extent i can agree with comments certain comments that everybody has made and i think that is the key to it i think this needs to be prioritized i think it needs to come down in smaller samplings yes are there other positions that you
1:09:28do need a certain expertise and a certain dollar value i won't disagree with that but not everybody in these papers is a department head or a director either i don't believe um as counselor and c two said we have clerks we have people who work in city hall that have worked here 5 10 15 20 years making 36 38 000 but we have a position on here that's technically a two-year position it's not a career
1:10:00that the president's salary is 38 000 but the recommended not to exceed is 50 000.
1:10:07well that's a 12 000 increase for somebody who potentially could be here only for two for two years those type of things i can't go along with um you know i think somebody in that position certainly shouldn't be making 12 or 14 or 16 000 more than somebody who's been doing their work doing a good job doing it faithfully for years and is still only making 36 000 a year
1:10:32um so yes i think we need to prioritize we need to assign dollar values that are reasonable and fair and where we can cut we need to cut and with that i yield and be consistent with it counselor and seat a counselor yeah i would just like to add that this not to exceed is because department heads get a percentage or they got the cpi or they get a percentage of whatever the union contract was
1:10:55so um i would like to see any of these positions that are not within ordnance now because that's how we got them down initially that some of them were not an ordinance that those be the first ones that we get back from administration those that are not currently in ordinance so we can do that here somehow or i can we can refer it back to ordinance and the ordinance chair could speak with the
1:11:22mayor mayor and the finance team or whoever that is and figure this out uh whoever the ordinance committee chair is going to be next year so yeah well we can reject this and refer to that i just think that if we're going to bring it in i think that the ones that are not currently under ordinance that they're above that those be the first ones that we get to to clear that up
1:11:45so there's a motion to refer the motion on the floor is to reject if you want to make the motion counselor let me just clarify the motion i believe your motion is to reject is it to reject and refer back to the committee on ordinance would we want to refer back to ordinance or would we want to refer it back to the administration well he needs to go through ordinance first okay so and that
1:12:04would be my recommendation to reject send it back to ordinance fine-tune it the motion the motion's clarified that is a motion to reject and refer back to the ordinance committee has seconded what's the matter you're granting it leave to you can't do both you're going to read we can reject it you're going to we can refer so the rejection is the referral to the subcommittee so we can refer it back to
1:12:27if you're referring it back to the subcommittee then you refer it back we're not adopting it so we can refer it back to ordinance what's your recommendation um i i would just recommend that we reject it send the list back to the administration and just have either uh the chairperson of of the ordinance committee just sit down with the administration and look at the list and identify which ones are going to be
1:12:49priorities and then resubmit the prioritized uh updates similar to what councilman c david has had mentioned down to the council i think i think it's just going to be cleaner that way so what is that what is the will of the body you want to reject it and refer it back to the committee well there's a motion to reject so i'm going to support the motion to reject so that's what purpose that's what's on the
1:13:09table motion to reject with no referral just for the record is on the floor right now counseling c4 so if we do reject it and it goes back to the administration to send it back down then there's going to be an extra step they'll have to send it back to the council the council will have to forward it to ordinance if we just refer back to ordinance then that chair can immediately have the conversation it's just
1:13:31well although we don't have a cfo or a city administrator at this time anyway so i guess it it's not like it's going to happen next week but so let's let's dispose of the motion that's before us is emotional florida reject roll call
1:13:53excuse me counselors kadeem yes dionne yes kilby no well libby libo yes lee yes peckham yes pelletier yes pereira yes and president ponti yes next order of business miscellaneous traffic ordinance for passage through second reading and enrollment motion to pass the item through second reading and enrollment would be appropriate made by councillor kilby seconded by counselor dion discussion hearing none
1:14:24all those in favor post the eyes we have the uh proposed ordinance relating to cemetery fees for passage through second reading and enrollment motion to pass through ordinance the cemetery fees through second rating and enrollment moved made by council of kadeem executed by council of pereira discussion hearing none all those in favor aye opposed consular in seat five opposed the eyes have it
1:14:47we have water and sewer rates for passage through second reading and enrollment so moves motion to pass the item through second reading and enrollment has been made by council the kadeem seconded by councillor pereira discussion counselor and c2 counselor dion yeah i have a question um i voted no the first time i'll vote be voting no again but i do have one question i don't know if we need to
1:15:08waive the rules to ask um motion to wave the rules made by councillor dion executed by councillor peckham all those in favor aye opposed the ice habit mr furland
1:15:31this is just a quick pretty easy question i think so we recently at a subsequent meeting made a transfer to cover the loss of revenue in the water department because the water and sewer rates had not been approved yet yes okay so my question is are people going to be getting retro when they get their water bills are they going to be retroactive water bills because technically that would be double
1:16:01pain yeah no we do not uh we haven't we've never done retroactive billings the ordinance that's in front of you states from october 1st because there was a revised ordinance that went to you but no we will not be billing retro okay we'll be starting from current thank you i yield constancy one council of kadeem thank you just further clarification so the transfer that we had made uh i think
1:16:26two meetings ago was to cover that initial right so that's it so that's why we wouldn't have to go retro and that's okay correct perfect i yield anything further nope there's a motion to pass through second reading an enrollment that has been made and seconded roll call
1:17:00yes pereira yes president ponti yes ocean carries thank you okay i just want to let that record reflect the reason and i didn't say the last meeting but the reason i decided to say yes to the water and sewer rate increases this time was because it's pretty clear that if the city does not do it now next year the water rates are going to triple to a percentage that people have
1:17:26never seen upwards to maybe 20 to 50 cents per seat per ccf so i felt it was in the city's best interest to do it now because going into next year you're going to have the debt exclusion a possible fee water and sewer rate increases you're going to see the real estate tax bill start getting caught up with the real estate market i just couldn't stomach seeing that all go on the taxpayer all next year
1:17:50next order of business whereas the fulfillment police department no longer requires civil service certification for the position of chief of police and whereas 66 other municipalities in the commonwealth of massachusetts have chief of police appointments subject to civil service and require testing through mgl chapter 31 section 59 and whereas the process of hiring the chief of police through civil service
1:18:15would create a more equitable appointment process now therefore be a result that the committee on audiences and legislation meet to review this recommendation and discuss the potential benefits of returning this position back to civil service standards motion refer to ordinary motion and refer to ordinance made by councillor pereira secured by councillor dion discussion the sponsor of the resolution
1:18:36counselor in c6 council of pekka it was quite the opening thank you um full of energy tonight appreciate it all right so the reason i filed this was and i'll be quite frank it's to take politics out of policing okay um i did notice over the last two years sitting as a public safety chair interacting with the chief the prior chief quite a bit that a lot of the things that i attract excuse me
1:19:02i tried to do will get processed or passed um it was a go back and forth between me the chief and the mayor and the reason for that being is the chief of police currently is a as an appointed position by the mayor and not civil service um our current chief does not have civil service protection so therefore at any point you upset the mayor you could lose your job and i don't
1:19:26i don't believe that's how a chief of police should operate um i have noticed um under mayoral appointees and not civil service appointees that there is a a moral issue within the department and how i can see that playing out in the future is is and um this isn't in regards to the the interim now um this is again what i had saw over the last two years as the chair and dealing with the chief
1:19:50i would like to see the chief be able to make his own decisions and not have to worry about being canned for lack of a better word be able to do his due diligence in his position and not have to worry about losing his job i can tell you that i personally while speaking to the mayor at one point i was asked why i called the chief directly and didn't go through the mayor to speak
1:20:10to the chief which i don't know where that rule came from i believe there's other councils sitting here too that he did say the same thing to um inquiring as to why counselors were calling him directly and not going through the man himself it's not how things operate with two different branches again for the 100th time since i've been a counselor i get another issue that was brought up
1:20:32by the police department when i was filing this resolution was with the union it makes it quite awkward when you got the chief of police who's appointed by the mayor sitting on the side of the administration and not representing his officers themselves so when you come up with cva ideas the chief's on the side of the mayor and pretty much telling you why the officer shouldn't get what they're
1:20:53asking for i don't think the chief should be put in that position i think the chief should be civil service um and have his contract uh brought forth that way and the patrolmen don't have to worry about the back and forth in cba negotiations i won't keep this lengthy um yeah i'll leave it at that i yield thank you counselor one council of kadeem uh thank thank you so i guess i'm gonna
1:21:16say make some unpopular statements that's as i typically do um so uh i'll support this because i think there's there should be some conversation in ordinance however i completely disagree um i serving as an administrator i don't know that civil service really does um what it should do i think it worked at one point what it essentially does is is establish a testing system and it does not measure
1:21:41the intangibles there's more to being a department head and a chief than just taking a test and and coming scoring the highest right so you take the top three candidates and get to choose you know the top three cans and have a reason why you're bypassing the first candidate to be chief nowhere in the test does it say are you a good fit for the community how do you capture that on a test
1:22:02okay and then some some of it is history are you a leader i mean it comes back down to council president vice president i know we got the debate on should it be the you know the top vote get or the you know the top two vote errors become president vice president i disagree with that again the intangibles just because i may come in the top you know get the most votes uh from the
1:22:20city doesn't mean i know how to run a meeting or i have the ability to run a meeting you know there's more that goes into it and i think by doing civil service all you're doing is limiting our pool it comes back to making sure we have the best qualified candidate and in terms of negotiations department heads should be in negotiations if if you're looking to entrust the um and we're talking about the police chief
1:22:43but if you're looking to entrust the police chief um and making sure that he has a state on his department which will be civil service you're trying to support them then you can do that the problem becomes is whether or not we have the right mayor right so that's the real question do we have the right mayor in the leadership position to give those people who have been identified as the true
1:23:02leaders and give them the resources and the authority to make those decisions they are the subject matter experts i would want a chief before us but there has to be accountability so the chief needs to be able to manage his his department he should have the opportunity to come back before the the mayor whether or appointed or not appointment pointed because it comes back down to any contract that's issued
1:23:22by by the mayor you need to be able to surround yourself not with yes people you need to be able to surround yourself with people who are going to tell you the truth whether they agree with you or disagree with you and why they disagree with you if you can't have that open dialogue then we obviously have the wrong mayor in the positions and if the if there are department heads who are not comfortable
1:23:41to have that open dialogue then we've got the wrong department heads in those positions you have to have it they just need to understand at some point the mayor is the executive executive branch so when the mayor says okay i understand what you're saying but we need to go in direction a then they just need to follow and go in direction a but there needs to be some oversight i think by
1:23:58doing civil service all we're doing is just allowing a test to take place you've got a process we can still have the same process but i am telling you that a test does not capture you know what we need to i mean we look at it in the schools mcas how many times did we say that mcas doesn't make any sense we could have officers and i'm not saying we need to go outside because we
1:24:16we can still have a contractual person like we've been having all through this period and still have it from with insight i'm not suggesting we go outside but you're looking at a test so somebody who's not a good test taker is going to lose uh points because they didn't test well and maybe they get an 80 versus somebody with a 90 but they're they're intangibles are they're a true leader
1:24:35they're seen in the department as a leader but we don't even get to we don't even get to an opportunity to interview them because they're not in the top three to me doesn't make any sense then you've got you know veteran preference and and points there so you've got people jockeying up and it could just be you know 1.2 points and then they're they're out and then we're not having the opportunity to get the best
1:24:55fit for the position and i think there's something to be said about the intangibles that's just that's just me but i i'll put it to committee because i think it's it's absolutely worth the um the debate back and forth and and i'd be willing to to debate anybody on this on this matter personally but with that i yield thank you counselor in seat five counseling well i think the uh the
1:25:16purpose by council peckham was to try to make an attempt out of um eliminating some of the things that he's probably witnessed and i know that i've witnessed um over the past couple of years as far as the uh the politicizing of certain positions and in regards to that and i'd be to be truthful i think no matter what direction we go whether we go with the civil service or you know keeping it the
1:25:40way it is there's going to be political challenges no matter which direction we go but i think um what i think what council beckons trying to do is mitigate it the best it can keep keep sort of the decision making in-house rather than out of the mayor's office and please correct me if i'm wrong on that no not at all so um you know on that on that note i think
1:26:01um you know i think council peckham has a point there um and and counselor you know console c1 i think that you know this this is just this illustrates that there's there's two sides to this um in whatever direction we go we're gonna need to have some integrity no matter which way we go we're gonna need to see some leadership out of the the chief of police position no matter
1:26:23where we go um i i was one that appreciated the most recent one that we had i had a really good um rapport with him and i don't know what direction we're gonna go now but i would like to see one way or another i would like to see the the politicizing of the position out i'd like i'd like to see uh a chief of police that is just focused on
1:26:44the job at hand and not worried about how having someone else in his ear saying how this is going to be political if if that if that person can't do their job the way it's supposed to be done so with that i yield thank you thank you i just want to remind the council also has a say in the chief too right we have the council as a body would need to approve
1:27:01of the appointment of the police chief so it does fall on the mayor to send the appointment down so just so we're aware um don't lose sight of that uh counselor in seat seven did you want to speak no confidence see two consular deal yeah i think um if we want to take the politics out which i think we should um there there's a number of things we can do do i agree
1:27:27with a certain extent on the civil service yes do i get that just because you score the highest does it make you the best i can also agree with that um you know there's a such thing as i think it should be properly vetted i think that's where my issue lies there's such a thing i believe it's called a 900-hour chief you get somebody that's retired they were either a chief in the
1:27:49state police the fbi a different police department they have the experience the knowledge they have no prior uh thoughts they don't know anybody in the department they come in they put in 900 hours they'll identify your problems they'll identify your issues they'll identify your your strong candidates if they feel somebody's well qualified and then i think beyond that we need a vetting process and a
1:28:21committee who knows law enforcement knows the job knows the requirements knows the intangibles not and not to insult people by any stretch because i wouldn't put myself there and i worked in corrections i wouldn't put myself there i've never been a police officer i don't think you just randomly pick five people from the community and say okay tell us if you think this is going to be a good chief they don't know
1:28:42you don't know unless you've done the job so i think we need a proper vetting um as well and that would just be my recommendation in the road i'd like to see us go down with that thank you before i recognize our colleague in seat six this council is in seats three four eight want to speak on this item nope councilman seat six council of pekka i just want to say i appreciate
1:29:03all the sentiments uh councilman c one um i i do agree somewhat um the only thing that i to add is it's a civil service process from officer right through deputy chief so if you're going to show leadership skills you should have shown them right through those ranks as well and to my understanding through civil service you can also have an interview process if i'm not mistaken i'm not 100
1:29:27percent positive on that i would have to look it up uh maybe because uh councilman c one could help me out with that but i believe even though there is a civil service test and score that you can still interview um at the top of the list and may be mistaken again um but as far as leadership qualities to rise to officer sergeant lieutenant captain deputy chief we should know by ben if his leadership
1:29:51skills are there or not also to my understanding the civil service test for the chief um does have a leadership aspect to it um which is different than the regular civil service test for offices um i just wanted to add that without your thank you thank you constancy one council academe uh thank you just so just to my colleague's point that there is an interview process and it's a percentage
1:30:12of the total score and that's where i think things get lost because you don't get the intangibles however to his point and it was a statement i was really gonna make was um you know through the process and i think i think there's it's broken i i truly believe civil service is broken because i i think number one we've got people who are moving through the ranks that should not be moving through the ranks and then
1:30:34moving to the ranks because they're in in the top three position and then we wonder why we get into the situations that we find ourselves in right because that's the process however we can't change that what i will say is i absolutely wholeheartedly agree with counselor in c2 in terms of a vetting process we just need a process that that truly and transparently vets individuals for
1:30:56the positions what i will say is as i think internally and this is not necessarily for us to make a decision on but i think when we start talking about what the future chief of the police department looks looks like we need to start asking questions in terms of how do we prepare our officers to go from patrol to the sergeant to the lieutenants to the captains onto the deputies i think some folks cannot make
1:31:19those transitions it's very difficult the biggest transition to make in my opinion and i'm not in this industry however i've seen it enough is the transition from patrol to sajit that is the most challenging transition an officer has to make and they're not properly prepared to make that and there's not enough resources for them so i think number one we should be talking about what type of resources
1:31:41are we going to have and what are we going to be looking for but that's part of the vetting process this is part of the interview questions that we need to have and these are part of the intangibles that a scoring you're not going to take a test and say okay how are you going to how do you better have your officers prepared to make the transition so you can build a farm
1:31:57system from within you don't get to check you know item uh question uh answer a is the best response right because there's no real good responses it's not a one size fits all you need to be able to have those that dialogue in that conversation but there's a lot that goes into it and i know we have that um the civil service process and it's in there to protect people and i get the politics
1:32:18but we'll never to be we've got to be truthful we'll never eliminate politics right there's politics even if we're not in the political realm right there's politics and copper in america it's just that's what happens when you have people in the position uh of of leadership they they make decisions and sometimes they're political decisions i think it's just one of those things we try to minimize
1:32:38the the politics we're in a political arena and we just need to to minimize it and the only way to do that is is to have those right people on the right leadership and have vetting processes that are transparent and that we all understand and support because i think it's one thing you know this is where we go back to the taxes right it's one thing to say we're not going to increase taxes but
1:32:57then we're sitting here and saying that we need to provide more resources to the officers right and officer wellness and things like that that comes at a cost so part of that is is increased you know fees and taxes to support not only the police department but the fire department so this it goes a long way uh but again i i think and i'm not trying to you know say that this isn't a good
1:33:16resolution because i think it sparks even even at a minimum it will spark a good discussion and and debate that will generate even if it's just more than you know the civil service process what we need to do to to help improve the police department in terms of resources so i i applaud my colleague um i just personally am not in favor of the civil service process but i look forward again
1:33:37to the debate so with that i yield any for anything further no motion to refer to ordinance has been made and seconded all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it whereas water has been a source of energy for hundreds of years and whereas there are miles of water mains running through the city of fall river whereas hydropower is now a source of renewable energy now therefore we resolve that the
1:34:02administrative community utilities investigate the possibility of harvesting energy from specially designed in-pipe turbines to be installed in war domains to generate electricity and be it further resolve that a presentation be delivered to the committee on finance within 90 days with all information acquired by the administrator of community utilities on this technology motion motion to adopt has been made and
1:34:28seconded discussion one of the sponsors of the resolution concerning seat eight councillor pereira um yes um myself council dean and council lee put the resolution in because we have a couple of us have already spoken um to mr furland about these turbines that go into water pipes when we had our meeting and ordinance committee relative to water rate increases mr terrio was also here and said that he would like to be
1:34:56able to come down too to finance with mr frillin to kind of talk about what's going on in the water and sewer department and uh we used to do that a few years ago and that stopped so with this um idea that came forth then we're looking at ways to save money and maybe if we could get some electricity generated through hydropower perhaps it would pay for some of the electricity even in the
1:35:23water department or other buildings throughout the city but just um to look into it so i will yield and let my colleagues address their concerns thank you counselor counselor in uh one of the sponsors of the resolution counselor in seat two counselor dion i'm sorry consonant c five council relief yeah uh so no i believe and someone can correct me where i'm wrong but uh about about maybe
1:35:49a year ago or so um when we were having discussions about the first very first discussions of water rates and um i believe we were talking about different ideas that we could utilize um funding to invest in and i i did bring this up as a matter of fact it's the um constituent that texted us with the um with the website regarding the in the turbines uh that was that was a link that i had um
1:36:15that i had talked to you about i think i even sent you the link at one point um about a year ago so um to mr furlin so when this was brought up again in conversation i even i texted everyone and said i love the idea i would like to see this happen however mr furland did speak to us about it that time and he said it was a possibility
1:36:37but he wasn't i don't think he was completely sold on the idea so i know we'll probably talk about this later down the line because in certain communities and i believe that the article talked about portland oregon as a place that has made this investment before and it did bring down some electrical uh costs and things like that um and just go into a further conversation that you know with council of kadeem and
1:37:01others about where i lay on not wanting to um raise certain fees and and i'm always looking to see where we can find the cuts and find the decreases i've never been opposed and i can i can reference it many times i've never been opposed to making infrastructural investments um and and sometimes those are those are costly you know but i'm willing to make those costly investments because i know in the long term
1:37:28um it will benefit the uh the taxpayer and and the fee in the fees along the way long term and i think that's part of the reason why we keep on digging ourselves in a hole now is because we are ignoring a lot of the infrastructural investments that we should have made regarding the transfer station regarding the the closing down of our landfill which caused a lot of our financial problems
1:37:52that have happened since um and in the cso issue as well that we've been going through and the flooding issues that we've gone through and and even now you and i would agree council president that it's been it's been a mistake that that the current uh administration is still to this day not invested uh properly with the opera funding as far as infrastructure goes and um you know i'm
1:38:13still gonna i'm still gonna keep on chipping away at that i just the same as the same as with me i'm willing to invest in uh what we need to for uh composting because again long term that could that can benefit us long term i do believe that this um something like this maybe not this specifically i know that you have uh mr furling has um opposition to this specific project uh
1:38:36but i'd still would like to see the presentation regardless and if if this can spark a discussion into what we can see long term for an infrastructural investment i would like to i'd like to see that so i i'm gonna obviously i supported this um this resolution but we're just trying to start a discussion on what we can see going forward as an infrastructural investment that would help
1:39:00not just the costs long term but the quality in which the service is provided as well so with that yield thank you thank you councilman c two council of the year yeah i'd just like to point out that you know so often i don't know why but in fall river we're so far behind the curve that this is an opportunity for us to finally be in front of the curve ahead of the curve
1:39:21you know maybe even a leader in something um you know just yesterday governor baker signed a four billion dollar federal covert relief funding spending bill within that bill he has infrastructure investment 100 million to fund grant for water and sewer infrastructure improvements you know i think as fast as the ink dried on that bill our grant writer or somebody should should be on this
1:39:49should be on this we you know we need to try to get part of this hundred million dollars we have maybe this is some money that could be put towards an endeavor such as this in addition to that it's a hundred million dollars to improve culverts dams and other environmental infrastructure did that maybe perhaps some of that money could help mr barlow down on dickinson street with the issues down there i don't know
1:40:10but you know the monies are there the uh innovation is there and i think you know somebody made the point today 17 years ago they were paying at kiosks for parking and fall river just did it in 2021.
1:40:28i don't want to be there with water and sewer i don't want to be there with our trash we need to stop making advancements and stop being a leader and taking advantage when we can of monies that are out there to help us succeed and with that i yield thank you counselor anything further motion there's a motion uh to adopt that has been made in second correct madam clerk yes yes motion has been made and
1:40:56seconded here no further discussions all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it next order of business is a citation
1:41:13i'm sorry i didn't hear the motion motion to adopt motion to adopt has been made by council of kadeem seconded by council vice president harry no further discussion all those in favor all right oppose the ice habit item 17 is the order granting permission to bring its corporation for the motion to refer to the committee on public works and transportation motion to refer to public
1:41:33works and transportation has been made by council of pereira seconded by council of pelletier discussion hearing not all those in favor opposed the ice habit item 18 is the order granting permission to people incorporated for curb removal to refer to public sector transportation and refer the item to public works and transportation has been made by council of kilby executive i counsel the
1:41:53pelletier discussion hearing not all those in favor aye opposed the i7 and item 19 is the order granting permission to jerry ayers for the curb removal at 457 locusts to adopt motion to adopt has been made by councillor pereira executed by council of pelletier discussion hearing none all those in favor aye opposed the eyes item number 20 ordered that the dispatch and commun communication center located in the
1:42:23faller police station at 685 pleasant street be named in memory of joseph joe torres who served the community as a dedicated dispatcher for 28 years motion motion to adopt made by council of kilby seconded by council of peckham discussion counselor in seat six council peckham um i'll keep this brief joe uh i had the pleasure of working with joe when i worked at the police station
1:42:48and we talk about our employees and how uh we have to retain employees and it was said a couple of times tonight he was probably one of the best dispatchers the city had and probably one of the best we've ever had i had the opportunity to train under joe and joe was the type of guy that had a heart of gold he was a big teddy bear but where i want to go with this is i'll
1:43:14tell the story about joe and i i thought about this after he passed and uh i was sitting in dispatch two and you gotta run plates and every plate has a code or you gotta run a serial number for a firearm you get a million things you gotta run and back then we had a little black screen with the green letters on it and uh joe's in dispatch one i was in dispatch too when he was
1:43:34overseeing my uh it was brand new overseeing me and i said joe i gotta run uh firearm registration what code is it he goes you see that big black book up there i'm not kidding the book was this size and a half of codes that go on that thing and he made me look through the entire book until i found it you know what that made me do it it gave me the the ability to find
1:43:58the information on my own and not just get told because when you have to find the information on your own you retain it when somebody just tells you something it's it's not the proper way joe taught you in a way that you retain the information you became a great dispatcher and i think that's why the communication center that we have today does such great work is because of people like joe
1:44:18and many others there that have given 25 plus years to the city um and i just thought this was appropriate to do um because the city did lose a valuable valuable uh asset without a yield thank you thank you counselor anything further councilman c one consolidating so what's the um the motion was to adopt motion to adopt the order yes um so i'm not going to be supporting it and just the only reason it's
1:44:40i've said this before i think we've gotten way too far away from uh dedication to naming of buildings and the school department just did something which i absolutely disagree with i mean there there needs to be a criteria in terms of how we're naming things after people not to say that this individual doesn't deserve it i would like to see this go to to ordinance to really kind of
1:45:00establish what the criteria is going to be but you know we've got a number of employees um that have either passed away or something has happened that you know i think we can we would all like to dedicate something but there needs to be at least some type of criteria in terms of how we go about you know naming either buildings or locations after people so with that i'm not going to be
1:45:22supporting it i wish that it would have just been referred so we could have just really started that process with that but without a yield thank you constancy for council vice president so i'm not opposed to this either um but i do agree with councillor and see one that there needs to be some type of a process i would support sending it to ordnance so that we could have that discussion and uh put it in place
1:45:51there and then adopt it but then i young consummate seat five constantly i'm also going to support the order but i um i i would love to co-sponsor any kind of resolution regarding to what uh counseling one's talking about because i agree with them on it but uh we we do need that kind of criteria but i am going to support this order so that you'll concentrate did you have your
1:46:13hand raised no i would just if it uh it seems that the will of the committee is to refer it to ordinance then i would make a motion that uh we have the most let's let's just monitor the motion to adopt first and if that doesn't pass then we can emotionally then we can refer it constant seat six council beckham all right i've sat here for two years and watched many things get named after
1:46:33people and i do respect what counseling c1 is saying what i would like to say is this is the first time i've actually requested that something be named after somebody because i do feel that there has to be a specific purpose for that to be done um what i would like to see go to ordnance is maybe somebody file a resolution that there be a process from here on out and not just take this one
1:46:54specific item and say well we're going to now refer this we've named 35 things after people this year we're going to take this one to use as a a project to send back to ordnance i maybe somebody could file a resolution saying that and from here on out to name a building or a room or something in the city after somebody then this is the steps we're gonna have to take because i did hear counselor
1:47:17kadeem say it many meetings ago and i i did agree um that there has to be a process and i forget what was going to be named um i i do agree with that but i don't think this is where we should set the precedent i think a resolution should be filed where uh things are ironed out and ordinance and this doesn't come up again with that i yield just so the council's aware
1:47:36there is an ordinance already because remember we had that whole discussion about a park recently there were some individuals here about a specific park that they wanted to get named after them and that item had to get referred to the planning board for the planning board to discuss so what i think should probably happen is the ordinance committee should look at the ordinance somebody should file a
1:47:56resolution look at the ordinance to make sure we're consistent with what we do before the city council adopts any kind of order going forward so there is ordinances in place don't ask me exactly what they are but i know that there is a process by which that we need to refer things example the there was a part i don't remember which one uh i think it was it was at the last
1:48:17meeting of the meeting before uh that we what was it griffin griffin griffin park somebody wanted to rename griffin park and we referred it to the planning board and the planning board is going to send their recommendation back to this council for their adoption i don't know if that has anything to do with if it's just parks if it's buildings i don't know what that is but i just want the council to be aware
1:48:37there is an ordinance already council c4 so if we were to adopt this where does this go it goes to the mayor for signature and the police chief has no say whatsoever in his building not that i think no i mean maybe the mayor will call the police chief before he signs the order i don't know so just point of information you just said it's gonna go to the mayor so
1:48:58does it go to the mayor so we're bypassing the ordinance so it's not going to planning it's not going to the planning board right now the referral is to adopt so yes the city council is is adopting something that didn't go to the planning board but i want to make it clear i think there's things that we've done in the past that we haven't referred to planning we've just adopted
1:49:18it i don't remember what they were but we've dedicated like 20 things this year i think so should we check what the ordinance says before we vote on this yeah i think so i mean we want to do that it's up to you i mean i'm just i don't want to foggy the situation anymore there's already ordinances in place if it is now the time to do that i don't know
1:49:41i don't see sex i do believe councilman c did you not tell me earlier that you did speak to the chief regarding this issue i did and he wasn't opposed to it correct he was he was wondering where the plaque would go ins outside or inside the building when i talk to the chief about the possibility of dedicating a room he said nobody's really going to see that maybe it should be in the main entrance coming
1:50:04in a plaque dedicated and then you know at least a plaque you have where you can put other people as well um so i would not not to put you on a spot it's just that it it was brought up if it's the chief spell then whether or not he approved it was to my understanding that he he does he just had some questions on where it would be acknowledged well that's not the understanding that i
1:50:28got um what i got was not putting a plaque or something or dedicating a room but more so doing a dedication of some sort of a plaque that was in the main foyer so that people could see that a room did you talk to the chief at all about this no because there was none when i wrote the resolution one it was actually the day he resigned and i didn't know who the intern was going to
1:50:49be at the exact moment i'm not reading all this all right just show the clock just saw the client that's aware naming or renaming of streets parks buildings or other property um we know what the purpose of the section is and for further clarification this is a room within the building i'm not asking for a building i'm not asking for anything other than a room with a plaque outside the door on the
1:51:15entrance that the guy walked through for 29 years that's what i'm looking for here nothing more we're rocco yeah well he's reading that what what does that say let me just let me just really quickly let you know that there's a whole ordinance under the city code that speaks to petitions purposes filings the city council's initial action the city council shall receive a petition and refer to the planning board
1:51:39for its recommendation but is that for parks we don't know because it really doesn't speak to detail there's research there's public hearings it's recommendations naming of public buildings and streets the name of a public buildings tree or area which we're not doing here so clearly there's some appetite here for an ordinance change if the council so wishes to do that but this is like three
1:52:01pages so we don't have to do that right now we're in full council motion photo ordinance there's a motion on the floor that i'd like to dispose of first which is a motion to adopt and then it can go to ordinance so just point of clarification it's not really a point of clarification why would you throw it out there if you're not going to entertain a motion to refer to ordinance committee
1:52:24and let me see where that vote goes i'm just going to object so listen to me that's true the motion to refer does take precedence so no motion to refer has been made by council of kadeem is there a second question executed by council of pereira discussion councilman c4 so um council president what section were you reading 66 186 66 186 any request for naming or renaming a street park building or other property
1:52:53within the city limits shall be initiated in writing from one or more residents business soldiers or tenants within the city of fall river by completing a petition for naming or renaming which should provide the following information which is what's here and then it should be filed with the city clerk's office by noon no less than 10 days prior to the next meeting of the con so if i interrupt can i interrupt
1:53:18it's about two pages it goes on to say the city clerk shall provide copies of the petition and supporting documents to the city council the mayor corporation council city engineer and planning director prior to council meeting did they get that no no no and then the initial action is the city council shall receive the petition and refer to the planning board for its recommendation no it was not
1:53:42it was not received as a petition it's received as a council order so they've over the years they're handled differently because they hand they're taken as a council with just as as they received from the mayor's office or you know as they have been received in the past when they've come down from another member of the council or when they've come down from the administration as an order to name a
1:54:06building or to name a room within the school department they come as an order they're not a petition from the pub a member of the public so we've not treated them the same as this petition so just so everybody's aware what's probably going to happen is after this discussion that just occurred right now when the city clerk goes upstairs to the sixth floor tomorrow and asks somebody to sign the order you know what he's
1:54:26going to say he's going to say are we following the ordinance and we're going to make i don't know maybe we are maybe we're not and he's probably not going to sign it so let's refer to the committee on ordinance which is the motion on the floor let's have that discussion and let the council amend the ordinance if it's necessary we don't need to read the ordinance book right now consonants accountancy for you still
1:54:43have the floor high yield constant seat two council of dionna i just have one question through the chair to counselor in c8 can you clarify for me again what the chief's interpretation was of this it was he did you say he was in agreement with the room or in agreement with a plaque um recognizing the individual he we didn't really talk about the rooms that there was you know resolution coming in
1:55:13to name a room he said oh a plaque in the hallway would be somewhere that people would more see it you know i said well maybe you want to call councillor peckham and have a conversation with him so maybe we need more qualifications maybe he has a different interest i don't know yeah i called chief garvin because chief garvin is the interim chief right so i did call him to wish him well as interim chief to
1:55:41exchange phone numbers to offer my services if there was something that i you know could do for the police department that type of thing and then the conversation went into so sorry you lost someone and there might be you know something coming on the council agenda relative to naming so the you know maybe the uh entrance way coming in would be good people you know more people would see it and i suggested that
1:56:07you contact councillor beckham okay thank god i yield i just wanna i wanna make this even more complicated it also doesn't say anything about we're talking about property right we're not actually talking about a building we this is a room inside of the police station right right we're not talking about renaming the police station we're not talking about renaming city hall we're not talking about renaming
1:56:27maplewood park sean kadeem's park like we're not doing we're not making any kind of a suggestion like that it is a room in a building of which the ordinance does not speak to so that's great then i'll i'll submit for the next for your last final meeting because i think you're the best president that the chamber be called the uh cliff ponte chamber yeah well that's not going to pass consciousness but do
1:56:46you see what do you see what i'm saying there's still meaning behind it i get it i just i just want everybody to be clear it needs to be amended an ordinance which is getting referred to i believe okay so counselor just one for the question uh madam clark roughly how many things have been named after somebody that should over the last two years quite a few right did they all go through this process
1:57:10there have been some and there have been and then some haven't have some come down as autism past yeah absolutely all right with that i yield thank you thank you constancy one that's i mean that's that's still a relevant right like i i appreciate it but my frustration is that we're just naming things after people because we like them there's got to be a criterion i still have an issue with the ordinance because
1:57:30the ordinance is so vague we're sending it to planning so what's the criteria give me a criteria because we've got to be fair about this right i mean we were gonna we were gonna i think it was last year we were gonna uh recognize and name a bench next to route 79 because somebody ate their breakfast there every morning like this is where we're going i mean we just we named we just saw the school department
1:57:56name a first it was just the building then it was the entire school was was named right and and i i i respect the family and stuff but there are there are people who have also provided and had a significant impact to the community that have not had anything named after them there needs to be a criteria so it's fair and balanced that's all i'm saying and at some point we've just got to be able to
1:58:16you know i mean how many i know how many years have has the city when has the city been incorporated 1803 1803 okay so think about how many employees we have lost since 1803 we don't have enough buildings and rooms to name people after the people right so there are significant there are significant contributions that have been made by other employees i'm all i am saying is is that i'm not necessarily
1:58:42opposed to it but let's just come up with a criteria let's all agree on a criteria and then if the individual meets the criteria then absolutely let's let's do it and let's let's not have a plaque let's actually put a sign outside the building outside the room that actually has it so that it's visible but from my standpoint we need to identify what the criteria is and make sure that
1:59:00it's consistent because if not it's going to continuously be arbitrary to you know how what the planning board thinks and what the city council is feeling and we're talking about making things less political this is as as political as it gets right the city council is voting to name a building after somebody right so okay let's remove the politics and let's agree that the criteria is going to be
1:59:21contributions uh impacts things like that and and let's be done with it that's just that's just where i'm at i'm not necessarily saying that i would not support this if the criteria is established and the individual meets the criteria that that that's it that's just me as one counselor i yield anything further did you have your hand raised mounted vice president i did yeah okay so um if
1:59:42we refer this to ordinance madam clerk would you be able to also send a communication to the legal department so that they can get a head start on it no we're looking at this ordinance i can feel a counselor in seat six's frustration and i get it um and i don't think anyone is opposed to this i think we just need to if we send this there we can use that to put the ordinance
2:00:04to correct the ordinance and then we can vote on this in ordinance can't we and send it back or do we also have to table this here so it doesn't have to go around the block again you can send this um order to the ordinance committee and send it back with a recommendation okay won't have to be submitted again we can have the discussion and send it back sure okay make sure i yield anything further
2:00:32motion referred to ordinance has been made all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it have the police chief's report on licenses motion to address second police chief's report has been made by council of kadeem is executed by council of pereira discussion hearing none all those in favor i oppose the guys have it we have the applications for the renewal of auto body shop license motion to approve has been made by
2:01:00councillor kilby seconded by council vice president discussion hearing none all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it 23 is the application for the renewal of an auto repair shop license motion or adopt motion to adopt made by council of kilby executed by council of pereira discussion harry not all those in favor opposed the ice habit i have a number of um sorry evan um where am i
2:01:26i have a number of claims motion referred to corporation council all right so moved made by council of pereiras are a second executive by council of kilby discussion harry not all those in favor opposed the eyes have it we have minutes of the planning board motion to adopt the minutes motion to adopt the minutes has been made by council of pereiras are a second second second by council of pelletier discussion
2:01:48parry none all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it i have a communication from a resident regarding citizens input at a um a board meeting tif board i'd like to speak on it motion to accept and place on file has been made by councillor kilby seconded by council of pereira discussion counselor and cd council of pereira uh just uh just as an ad to this communication in this communication the tif board meeting
2:02:14should have had a citizen input time and it wasn't on there i did talk to mr fiola about it and it will be added um to the chip board meetings in the future with that i yield thank you hearing no further discussion motion to adopt has been made and seconded all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it you can take items 27-31 second 27-31 together has been made by
2:02:39council of pereira secured by council of kadeem discussion hearing none all those in favor i oppose the ice habit so we have minutes of the city council public hearing on november 30th finance committee minutes of november 16th and 30th and regular city council minutes of november 16th and 30th motion to approve to approve has been made by councillor dion seconded by council of pelletier
2:03:09discussion hearing none all those in favor opposed the eyes have it item 31a is a communication from a city resident regarding a recent incident at the matthew class middle school it's a motion to refer to public safety made by council vice president seconded by council of peckham discussion constituency 4 council vice president thank you i know that we all received this by email and um
2:03:33it was asked that it would be read at citizens input where we no longer have the um email communication so i'm going to read it i did speak to um the author and i have spoken to her since this incident happened and i her frustration is that this happened it's being investigated and her their main frustration is that the school um the parents guardians of of kids at the school and all the schools weren't
2:04:01made aware that um that this happened not that they want anybody to be you know overly worried or or upset um but it's just a you know an opportunity for parents to have a discussion with their kids or or to know if you're going to be running a little bit late picking up your child from after school you might want to have a conversation with them hey wait inside the doors um
2:04:24they certainly don't want anyone to uh any hysteria but they would like people to know that this happened so says good evening members of the city council i am writing to you all today with my concern about what took place on november 29th 2021 a little after 4pm at matthew cuss middle school after the basketball tryouts a couple of students were outside waiting for their rides when one student was told to get in a
2:04:47vehicle by someone that was not known to the child the driver then threatened the child saying that she had an effing knife even though the child did not see the knife the child realized the danger of the situation and immediately called their mother and walked back to the school doors and grabbed another student i cannot imagine the horror of the mother hearing her child crying in fear
2:05:06along with the banging on the school doors to be let back in within minutes the parents arrived to retrieve their child and return the child to the safety of their home the police were immediately called and a report was filed at the child's home as well as at the school the officers officers at both locations wanted to meet at the school everyone complied with that request and spoke with
2:05:25principal rouette and the vice principal where they listened to the statements from the child as well as reviewed the surveillance footage at what point they were able to corroborate the given statement i'm sorry at that point they were able to corroborate the given statement with the actions in the recording within the few short hours of this incident a family member reached out to
2:05:44a couple of city councillors to also make them aware of the attempted abduction that had just occurred the next day they were very surprised that parents guardians and the other schools within the city had not been made aware had not yet received notification about what had happened at cuss the day prior with this knowledge a family member again reached out to city councillors very concerned that schools parents
2:06:07guardians and students have yet have yet not been told of the attempted abduction a detective was put on the case in more interviews confirmations and investigating was done but still no announcement has been made to the public with the advancements in technology that exist today the family felt that at the very least all of the skittish schools should have been notified to ensure that everyone
2:06:28had a fair opportunity to be vigilant and protect the safety of the children in the city at the next tryout multiple family members were parked in the school parking lot and were concerned that there were several students outside waiting for their rides with no supervision they did however see an sro come out prior to the after school activity to evaluate the parking lot and speak to
2:06:48some drivers just the presence of this officer makes a huge difference a week has now passed and still notification has been sent out to parents and guardians regarding the attempted abduction on november 29th the recorded weekly call on sunday from cusp listed changes to pick up policies at the school but did not provide an explanation as to why these new policies have been put into place
2:07:09a week later from the date of the incident the family was told that when the mayor was spoken to about this incident one of his concerns was that a knife was not mentioned to him was he not told of this detail and honestly why would it matter if it was mentioned or not if an attempted abduction had occurred on school grounds and should be concerning enough to make parents and guardians aware of the situation
2:07:30why did it take over 24 hours for the school committee to be notified of the attempted abduction of a student why a week later a photo of the vehicle has not been posted for public awareness why a week later our parents and guardians throughout the city have still not received a notice about cuss why did the detective tell the family that this could all be a misunderstanding miscommunication
2:07:53if the driver of that van had mistakenly tried getting the attention of a student that the driver thought was known to them that driver would not have one taken off after the students were back in the building two would be known to the school as a registered pickup family member and three the driver would have been there again at the next tryout pickup the family feels that the detective
2:08:12statement was an attempt to sweep this under the rug to avoid making the city look any worse than it already does with another dark cloud hovering over fall river we are repeatedly told that the city of fall river is very safe but in all reality is not it is now creeping its way under the school grounds where our children expect to be safe the family understands that the police need
2:08:30to do their job and that is an ongoing investigation but making other families aware of the imminent danger that had presented itself to the students of fall river is what is most important to them at this moment in time thank you thank you councillor you yield i uh so i have been speaking with her this was sent to the school committee the mayor the the council the interim police chief and the
2:08:56sergeant of the sros and there is an investigation that is ongoing and i believe some new information was brought to light yesterday which i will i'm not going to say um but i would also advise that we send this communication and ask i'm sorry sorry madame clark when we spoke about this earlier today was the committee of public safety but also to send this to the school committee for action yes
2:09:26to both to both and then give the school committee a chance to do their due diligence on this and um if and when they do that we can always leave to withdraw in public safety correct yes do you yield council vice president i yield thank you constituency five council of lee so i'm just at that last my point was going to be very similar to her part at the last where
2:09:51if we do have any kind of intervention from a public safety standpoint um from a public safety meeting standpoint that we either invite representatives from either the school committee or school department in general to be at that meeting if it's if this is the vein in which we're going to have an intervention however you know i'll follow the other procedure if if it's going to be handled through the school
2:10:12committee then we can do a leave through the draw so that i yield you counselor wisconsin seat eight council of pereira yeah i think that although you don't want to put a cloud over the city we're talking about the safety of children and many times if some child is missing you get an amber alert you get a call from the police department if something like this happens and you can
2:10:35identify the vehicle the type of vehicle then a call robocall could be made out that an incident occurred this vehicle was thought to um you know try to abduct a child i i think that we can do that and i don't think that that puts a cloud over us i think that that makes us look like we're being proactive and i think we need to look at all the cameras around these middle schools and
2:11:04what those cameras encompass because from my understanding and i've spoken to the author of that letter a few times she was a student of mine and i i could hear the the upset and the fear in her voice this is her grandchild and i think that she's not writing to complain about the way the principle of vice principal was she said they were marvelous they did a wonderful job um but she's more concerned with why aren't
2:11:35other people being made aware so that all our children can be safe it's not just about my grandchild it's about all the children and and i think one of the issues was that the camera couldn't get the license plate of that vehicle um because of the area that it was in so we have technology we need to use it and we need to make sure that all of our entrances and exits to
2:11:59schools and the parking lots and that and middle school is where they try to get kids that's a prime location as middle schools um you know lots of the cases that i ever worked with with the district attorney's office a lot of the cyber stuff and and abductions and things that went out where middle school kids are target for that so um i think it's a great idea to send
2:12:22it over to the school department too and to have a meeting because our kids are worth making sure that they are protected with that i yield thank you counselor any further questions comments hearing none motion uh has been made to refer any uh and been seconded at all no further discussion has been heard all those in favor apis have it and lastly for passage um through final reading through ordination would be the
2:12:50miscellaneous traffic ordinance motion to pass through final ordination has been made by consulate pelletier seconded by councillor dion discussion hearing on all those in favor aye opposed the eyes have it also through final ordination would be the cemetery fees motion to pass the cemetery feast through final ordination has been made by so moved council of pereira seconded by council vice president discussion
2:13:13hearing none all those in favor aye opposed concern seat five opposed the eyes have it the final ordination would be the water rates motion to pass through final order has been made by council of pereira seconded by councillor kilby
2:13:41yes dion no kilby yeah will be libeau no lee no beckham no pelletier yes pereira yes president ponti yes and the sewer rates through final ordination motion to pass through the sewer rates through final ordination has been made by council of kadim executive by council of kilby's our discussion hearing none roll call council is kadeem yes dion no kilby yeah libby lebo no lee no beckham no
2:14:14pelletier yes pereira yes and president ponti yes that's all we have in this potion to adjourn made by councillor kilby seconded by councillor dion all those in favor opposed the eyes have it goodnight and merry christmas
2:14:46you