12.16.2025 Historical Commission

Okay. Good evening. I'm Richard Mancini, chairman of the historical commission for the city of Fall River.

It's uh Tuesday, May 16th, and we're meeting at one government center. Did I say May?

Yes.

Boy, I got to tell you, where am I this morning? Huh? December 16th. We're meeting at one government center on the first floor hearing room. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived

by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Our recording secretary this evening is Commissioner Jonathan.

All right, Commissioner Jonathan Leur.

He's sitting over in the back corner there to my right. This meeting is being televised and recorded by Greg of the Floor of a Government TV. Present this evening are Commissioners Jonathan Leur, Commissioner Ashley Duna, Commissioner Connie Soul, Commissioner Joyce Rodri, Commissioner Caroline Aubin, and Commissioner Ryan Klene, and I, Rick Mancini. We have no vacant positions.

Commissioner Lima, have all petitions been properly advertised and all interested parties have been notified in accordance with the rules and regulations of the historical commission for the city of For?

Yes.

I hereby declare this Tuesday, December the 16th of the regular scheduled meeting of the historical commission for the city of Fall River open for such business and shall resume before us.

Okay. Well, we have no open door violations, so we're moving. We almost had one tonight, but we're doing okay.

Let's have a roll call. Ashley Ashley Dunia, present.

Jonathan Lima, present.

Connie Soul, present.

Joyce Rodri, present.

Caroline Auben, present.

Marion Klein, present.

Rick Mansion, present.

Okay, let's see.

I'm not sure if anybody can hear me, but we can't hear any audio.

Oh, did you get that, Craig?

Yeah, I'm seeing about it.

All right. Well, we're going through general business right now. I guess it's Nathan that's uh speaking. We're going through general business. We'll continue. Yeah.

All right. We're going to review and approve October 21st, 25 meeting minutes.

I'll make a motion to approve October 21st minutes.

Second.

And we have a second. Roll call.

Ashley. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Rick Mancini. Yes. All right. And the November 18 meetings, I guess we're going to have to table until the January meeting.

Okay. Good question. The table.

Okay. We have a second.

Good. Can we have a roll call on that?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

All right. Good. Do we have any citizens input this evening?

Seeing none, I guess not. Okay, let's just let's go to notice of intent to demolish. We received one on 99 Jones Street and that was a garage. Uh I went down and looked at it. It was a cinder block garage and uh we authorized the building department to initiate a demolition permit.

There's a carriage house on 11 or at 1163 New Boston Road. The house and the carriage house are on the significant structures list. Uh the carriage house is is not onate and it's vinyl siding.

Uh you can see where things have been changed on it. Uh the the only there's a weather vein on there. So we've asked them to remove the weather vein. They're going to do that for us. And the preservation society has volunteered to store it. So we've got that either from preservation society or ourselves or historical society also if it's needed.

Uh and that'll be stored. And actually uh the uh there was a a hold on the building permit and um we looked at it, talked to the owner. U the the carriage house the lots already split. It's already two lots and the carriage house sits right on the the line. It runs right through the the uh building. So there's I said I saw her checked it out.

I I see real no purpose on issuing a or keeping a demolition permit. It's going to come down. All we're going to do is give them some hardship in trying to wait or having to wait. So, uh talked to uh the building inspector uh actually yesterday afternoon and gave him the authorization to issue the building demolition permit. So, that's going to come down shortly. Um, and it it would have held that building

up. They're rehabbing the the home itself was in dire shape of rehab, and they are rehabbing it. He's keeping all of the original woodwork and original exterior. Windows are staying the same.

He's not changing them out with vinyl or anything. So, uh, we have to work with them. So, it it's going to work.

It's really too bad, though. I mean, it's a it's a pretty big carriage house, two level, you know. It's really a shame. It's a heartache.

It is.

Mhm.

We're kind of our hands are tied. We had more stringent regulations.

I know. Um I did see on the um old form B preservation file that it was actually moved um in 1951, I believe, as well.

So, it's on the original plot but not exactly where it was, right? Yes.

It's funny. It was saved then and now.

It comes down.

Yeah.

Okay. Any further discussion, questions? Oh, none. Okay. Let's see.

Correspondence.

uh got a actually a call from uh 628 Rock Street and that building is in a 40C district. That was a uh I guess people incorporated owned that a number of years ago and the owner new owner purchased it keeping it as a single family. Um he did make a phone call on they were doing a little bit of exterior work uh and replacing Ly and kind. It was all rotted. Um, again, we have no

jurisdiction over that, but it was nice enough to call, check with us. I went over, I looked at it. It looks well with carpenter was finishing off the project.

That's good. But, ironically enough, I received a call this call this afternoon from that particular owner. I'm going to meet him tomorrow uh at 10 10 a.m. So, if there's anybody that wants to be present, uh he's looking to stop making some or doing some work on the exterior of the building. Uh he's primarily interested in the windows. I guess there's a lot of air leakage. They are

old. So, uh, he wants to meet, um, our intent normally with those things is to try and save the windows. Uh, we have found historically that if you get the right contractors, it's less expensive to repair and rebuild than it is to take them out and put vinyl.

And as they say, vinyl is not final.

He can't replace them with vinyl, though. It has to be PL. Yeah. Yeah, he does because of 40C, but uh right, he can't because of the act, right? Um but we'll we'll have to, you know, talk with him and see what he's got in mind tomorrow. I'll give you a further update as I progress with this.

Okay, any questions?

Again, things a lot of things this afternoon. I turned the computer on and uh Union Belt Company and we're going to talk about that later when Emily presents, but Union Belt it looks like has just been approved by the National Historic Commission as a national to be placed on the National Historic Register. So that that's quite an accomplishment. That's really a good plus for the city. Uh it's going to

Washington now. Once it gets approved, it'll just be automatically placed on all the significant areas.

Any questions about Union Bill?

Would there be a uh uh some enthusiasm here to visit probably after the first of the year the Union Belt building?

Sure. All right.

Would would later in the day be better?

Probably. Does it matter?

Well, how late in the day? I mean, it's 4:00.

Yeah, maybe, you know, 3 4:00. Yeah.

Okay. Is there any specific day that would be amanable to us?

I can make anything work.

Pardon?

I can make anything work. Me, too.

It's good.

All right. That'll make it very easily taken care of.

Good.

All right. Uh, no other questions. Uh, let's see.

I guess we can go right into new business. Uh, Little Theater, uh, is going to present this evening. I guess they want to change the, uh, shingles that were originally proposed and they're going to make a presentation.

I don't know about a presentation, Frank.

So, Aaron Jender Visco from Little Theater Fall River. So, um originally we had come and got the Da Vinci um composite tile which is I have both of them here. So, in um we had gotten this one approved apparently from the builder. There's like a you know it's it's backordered until like the springtime or something like that. So they proposed this other slate which is the Ecostar um which is um another

composite slate. Um and you know I'm not a contractor you guys might know better than than we do. You know I mean there's definitely differences between them. Um it seems like they both are going to do the same thing for us in terms of the look of them obviously. Um, but we're just seeking approval to be able to swap out the Da Vinci slate for the Eco Star slate if that's the way we, you know,

decide to go.

Could you just pass that down Ashley, please?

The only difference is, you know, like this one is, you know, it's raised in the back. I don't know if that's good or bad in terms of water and stuff like that. This one is actually more like slate. Um, and I have, you know, I have some paper to the product and stuff like that from the committee.

here.

Just work on this.

I'll sh

So that's the one that I think last time I had sent some information on the Da Vinci. I mean, there's definitely there's a price difference, but I mean, we're not seeking, you know, it's not like we're looking for the difference in cost, but um I think she's a little bit more expensive.

Um, you know, obviously they all have like the water barrier, you know, requirements. Um, you know, the same requirements with like stainless steel nails and and all of that kind of thing in terms of putting it on the roof, but they're obviously two different products.

I have a uh a question for you. Uh and actually actually you might want to chime in on this. My experience that is a recycled material y and it's it's a plastic rubber uh it's actually a PVC is basically what it is.

And my experience over the years and I'm 83 and I started in this business when I was a youngster. Yeah, I've had a couple of days in the business and I was I was out there when PVC first came out and the last thing you wanted to do was put it in the sun.

Yeah.

Okay. Now, they've sort of have PVC now.

It's got some sunlight resistance to it.

Uh but when I checked the product line on this Echo Yeah.

Uh that was not the case.

Okay. Strictly a PVC. It doesn't It does say that it will not crack, but it doesn't say anything about fading or actually says it fades in the sun.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I don't know if the Da Vinci I didn't even The Da Vinci is not does not does not do that. Okay.

Yeah. So, it's definitely a superior um product to Echo Star.

Yeah. I mean, we certainly don't want to obviously the roofs lasted 150 years at this point. We'd like to do it once and not have to do it again for another 150.

So, I mean, um, you know, I guess it just means that, you know, we would have to wait until we could get the rights, you know, the right I do know I've I've talked with Gail on and off through the preservation society and I know that uh she's working with you and looking to see um u potentially repairing the slate versus replacing the entire roof, seeing if if it's more affordable, if it could be done. Yeah,

but I think the company that um she reached out to is finishing a church and right now and so I think they are going to come out to do an estimate. So while we're waiting on the other one um that may that may work as well.

Yeah.

Which would be Yeah. They only have to I mean it's not all the slate. I mean, especially the back side of the building, actually. I don't know if it's cuz it gets less sun because it's west facing the west or I mean, the back side's in actual pretty good condition. It's it's mostly like the the Highland side where most of the we have lost like the southside or so.

Is that east?

Have Have you looked into fixing it or replacing it with slate at all?

So, we've looked into replacing the whole thing in slate, which from a cost perspective is like double what this would Yeah. I mean, it's just crazy. who gave you like did somebody come up and do an estimate or Yeah, this was this was a while back. We had we had gotten some estimates. Um but yeah, I know Gail had talked about somebody coming to look and see to do a repair.

Some of it is just finding a contractor that'll come actually and do it.

Um so I know from my experience cuz I have a slate roof. Yeah.

And this particular company that Gail reached out to is the one that does the repairs.

Okay. So, and mine is like 130 years old or whatever.

And it's still the original roof and it's definitely more affordable um to fix it to fix it. I guess my concern would be we've had so much leaking. It's like the underructure.

It's not the slate that's the issue.

It might be the boards, you know, which you know, we haven't exposed our attic is exposed. So, they maybe they can assess it that way and see like actually how much of it would be. I don't know. The problem with that is you'll have to remove the slate in order to fix it. And with it being so old, the second you touch it, it's going to break.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I guess I mean, I think we're willing to wait, you know. I mean, as long as you got, you know, we want to do what's right for the building, obviously. I think if a repair, you know, if they come down and say, "Yeah, we could repair it." But again, I'm I'm concerned about like the damage and your what's been, you know, the wood.

That's why you want to make sure it's somebody that knows what they're doing, too, because it's such an old building.

Yeah. Yeah.

What is the projected shelf life on this final product?

I mean, these are like 50ear just like a regular roof. I mean, it's a 50-year warranty, but the site lasts 150 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, it's worthwhile, I think, pursuing Yeah. Yeah.

Times more.

Yeah. But it's worthwhile repair.

Yeah.

I mean, since you have to kind of wait.

Yeah. If we're waiting, then Yeah. I mean, I don't I guess we can table it until we get see what it I mean, I don't I don't know where we go from here.

As far as waiting, um, and this I guess is directed to you guys. Personally, I don't see the difference between those two. Um, the thickness obviously is there, but that's just an aesthetic thing. And as far as the fading goes, that's just going to change the color, and we don't really have any say on the color. Um, so I think that's irrelevant.

As far as the product itself, it's made for a roof.

It's made to be outside, weathered in the sun.

Um, so it will withstand probably the 50 years that it's given.

So, I I think if there's going to be a move that needs to be made for whatever reason, um I don't see an issue with switching it. However, I do agree. I think it's probably a best bet for little theater sake as well, just to get an estimate on the repairs.

Yeah.

But yeah.

Um depending on how long that takes, too.

Yeah.

So, would you be looking to make a motion to table this at this point?

Well, I mean, I guess if if we can get the product approved, then we don't have to come like then it's just a decision whether we decide to go with a repair, you know, once we get an estimate on repairing the roof versus replacing, you know, replacing the whole roof, I guess. Um, well, I I'm not personally not. I'm one vote. I'm not in favor of the echo material.

from what I the limited amount of reading that I've done on this. Yeah.

And and and it it just just the thought of having that slate fading to some light gray color.

Mhm.

It's going to change the whole texture of the of the building.

Yeah.

So, I would be somewhat opposed to that.

But that's just my I have a question. Sure. So, your contractor who can't get this until the spring, have you checked other contractors that maybe they have access to?

Um, I'm not sure if Gail has or not. I have not. Yeah, cuz I wonder if it's I don't know contract. I don't know if that happens, but if they're getting it through Da Vinci, then I would imagine that's anybody.

Um, yeah. I guess we can wait and see. I mean, we can't get Da Vinci anyway.

We're not going to It's not like we're going to move forward. I think I don't even know if they can put these on from what I was reading in like the weather right now because it's got to be like 40° or 50. It's got to be like, you know, something. So, um, yeah.

Do they have a lead time on the new the new product? I think they said like early spring or I want to say March or something like that is what they were saying they couldn't get on. So the Da Vinci the Da Vinci this they could Yeah, they could get this. Yeah.

Yeah. Go.

Yeah.

Okay. Um Yeah. I don't know.

My suggestion would be to ask your contractor when they would be doing the work regardless if it's slate or that.

Um, if it's slate, it might possibly be a different contractor. Yeah. Because not everybody does that. Yeah.

I would see when they're intending to start construction. Yeah. And if they're not looking until March.

Yeah.

Then it Well, they said they could start. I mean, they told us they could start today with this if they wanted to. But But did they give you an actual start date? Cuz I didn't think they had given you a start.

Yeah. I mean, they Well, they said they could get it done before our next show opens, which is January 20th.

Oh, okay.

That's what they that's what they're telling us. But at the same time, I was just reading that, you know, I was reading about this and they said it's not supposed to not supposed to install it like when it's cold cold. So, all right. So, then I guess there's nothing I need at this point.

The the other concern that I have too is um I'm familiar with the contractor and they're not roofers, you know, they're not they don't specialize in roofs.

So, uh they're kind of general contractor. So that was the other concern I had.

Not that I'm that I'm opposed to them doing it at all. It's just that's a concern that I also have because as she said, I'm concerned about what's underneath like the cause of the leaks.

Yeah. I guess we went to them because they had done another, you know, they did another property that the CPA owns that they did a roof using the Da Vinci.

Yes, they did.

Yeah. So that's why we kind of went with them because they used the product, you know, they had experience using the product and things. So I don't know if that went well or not. From Gail's perspective, it went well.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes. It did.

Okay.

It always is.

Yeah. I know. Um All right. So then I guess once we figure out once you know what we're going to do, I guess we come back. And I guess my question about the CPA funding, I mean that's in place. I mean it's been approved. So it's not like it doesn't go away.

Doesn't go away. Okay.

All right.

So I mean he can speak for the CPC.

You you should have two years from the time that it was awarded you signed the contract which I believe was uh in November.

November. Yeah.

Yeah. So you've got till November of 27 before it disappears.

Okay. Are you going to have to be get this done? Much sooner than Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, luckily it's winter, so the the leaking is a little better in the winter cuz it's frozen.

So, I You're asking at this point to We'll table it for now.

Put this on table with the Yes. Okay.

Until and then we'll wait and see about um the And you can communicate too like the Yeah, I mean if if in the end I mean I would say in the meantime I think it's hard for me to you know as a committee probably read about it because if I need to come to another meeting and say this is what we need to do then then we'll need a vote at that point.

I mean I think it gives you guys time to read about it and and sort of look into it more.

Yeah.

So so in in that sense you're asking us right now to just table your request.

Yes.

Okay. That's that's good. I think that's good. And again, I like the idea of uh uh finding a contractor who does just slate repair.

Yeah.

So that contractor should be able to give you a really a wealth of information. That's their specialty.

That's all they do.

And they would do what did I hear?

Monday. Is that what I used to do?

Well, they they're finishing a church before and and so by the time they're done because it gets so dark.

Yeah.

It gets dark so early.

So that's that and they're they've been in time. Okay. Yeah. And I know Gail's been working on that. So, I just have a quick question.

Sure.

We're looking at four properties.

No, no, this is this is little theater.

Okay.

Yep. This is just the the fire barn on Corner Prospect in Highland.

Okay. Okay. Was um was solar energy considered at all or or just the replacing of the tiles?

M I didn't think we could put solar panels in that. Yeah. No, that was not considered.

No, I didn't think that's an option. It's a historical building, so Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you much.

Have a good evening.

Is there any other questions by the way before?

No, I don't have no other question.

Thank you guys. I'll make a motion.

Okay. Do we have a second?

I'll second.

All right, let's take a quick vote.

Ashley, yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick Manseni. Yes. All right, we're going to move on. Emily's out there this evening.

I'm out there.

How are you?

Good. How are you?

Would you introduce yourself? We have newcomers here also. Emily, sure. My name is Emily Domani. I'm a historic consultant for a few projects in Fall River. I work with company called Ryan LLC.

Okay. I guess uh did you hear the news that the UN building union belt has been approved by the state?

Did you get that? Yeah. I received that today. So that's good news for you. It's quite a coup and congratulations.

Thank you.

All right. Uh so I guess the first item here would be the Notre Dame rectory.

You want to give us an update?

Sure. Um I spoke with the owner today.

Um and they are still kind of in a holding pattern with the electrical engineer.

um there have been delay with that and now um they're still waiting to get the plans to be able to move forward with the construction. Um we are waiting for the allocations from the August round.

This project is nearly at their full 20% state allocation for the project. Um but we um I wanted to come here today and ask for help support um in case they don't in case they don't get enough in this final allocation. Um but they, you know, they're nearing their max credit. So once once they're at that, we we will no longer need to be applying for state credit.

Okay.

Are there any questions with the Notre Dame uh rectory that has been really laying dormant? I keep on I go by there quite frequently and boy there's there's nothing going on there. Nothing.

So, all right. Um well, they're looking for a 20 they they're looking for the last tax credit. Now, this money doesn't get paid out. It's just held in escrow until the project gets completed to a stage where it's approved. So, uh, does someone want to make a motion? Motion to approve or reject?

I'll make a motion to approve a letter of support for tax.

Okay, I'll second.

And Ryan seconds.

Can we do a roll call? Ashley.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick Mancini. Yes. Okay. You'll get a letter of support on the Notre Dame building. How about Sanford spinning?

How's that going?

Yeah. So, um this this is also a project, you know, it's been in the works for a while and they are working to finalize their um funding to be able to close on the loan.

So a lot of things have been happening behind the scenes here.

Uh they are applying for HSET funding.

They are in the process of mod modifying their TAI agreement and um they have a term sheet in front of them now.

So, with all those things together, um definitely getting closer to finally being able to close and get the project started, crossing our fingers for this spring. Um if everything goes according to plan, early spring, um if a if a couple things end up taking a little bit longer, looking more like late June, and then it will be an 18month uh construction time frame.

Okay. Do we Is there any of the commissioners that have a question on the property?

No questions.

Is there someone who would make a motion?

I'll make a motion um to provide a letter of support for uh continued letter support tax credits.

We have a second.

I'll second that motion.

Okay. Can we have a roll call, Ashley?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Manseni. Yes. All right. And now we've got a new project on there. The Alagon printing.

Is that yours?

Yeah. So, uh, this is just north of the Sford Spinning Site. Um it's another mill complex that we're in the process of um working on the state and federal applications for. Um I don't know if anyone's familiar with the site, but it's a large parcel with five uh five buildings interconnected, some with non-historic connectors. And the plan is to add 190 units of market rate housing on the site. Um,

it will be a phased project.

No, it's not.

So, start starting with um the smaller buildings and then working up to the main mill.

All right.

Um yeah.

It's not on the new agenda.

No.

Okay. Uh do you need a letter uh on this Alangquord printing? You need that for the 15?

Yes. Um we'll need a letter for that.

Um, if that is something that you would like us to send a draft of or something and that you can look over and and sign if you're comfortable with it, that's something I can provide for you if that's easier. Um, or you're welcome to put together a letter.

Okay. Uh, yeah, this was this came in just this week. Uh, Yeah. So, it's not on the agenda. We can't we can't vote on we can't discuss it.

Um Okay. We're going to we're going to have to hold I'll get back to you tomorrow on this one. Okay. So, I'll go one, but we're going to have to hold uh this came in late and it didn't get on the official agenda. So, uh but I I'll get back to you on this. I'll give you a call. Okay.

The agenda needs to be done 48 hours, business hours or revised. And I give I put the revised in but without this on there.

Oh, you notice yours is stated. We did revise the agenda for uh other for Eda who is presenting also with Glo.

Okay. It's it's fine.

Okay.

Sorry. let me know what I need to deal with.

We'll take care of you. We'll take care of it.

Um, okay. Well, I guess that's it. Have yourself a pleasant holiday.

Uh, and we'll speak to you tomorrow and we'll see you, I guess, in 3 months to these other buildings.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you. And again, let me know if I know you mentioned seeing 66 Troy. Um, if you want to walk at the Aunquin site too, we can try to coordinate both of those on the same day if possible. Um, but have a If you could, why don't you just set up a day after the first of the year that's comfortable. It appears now here that there's no real u time frame and no

specific days. So, uh, probably later in the afternoon or pick a day when when everything is convenient.

Uh, you know, I you've got to work it around your schedule as well.

Okay.

Thank you.

All righty. Have a good night. Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.

All right. Um, yeah, I blew that. Sorry, guys.

That's okay. Uh, we have uh Nate, I guess you're coming up next.

One sec. Video is There we go. Hey, everyone.

Hi.

There you go. You're up there.

Everyone has a cut on the the descriptions.

All right. Why don't you uh start with the uh Derpy Street property, the uh 8084 Main Street.

Yep. Yeah. So, that is is still is still active. Um looking to get a continued letter of support there as we're starting to get allocations from the state. We have received allocations for the last three rounds, I believe. So, continuing to increase the allocation till we hit that 20%. Um, but as of right now with regards to the projects, uh, I know there was a comment on the last commission meeting asking about the

windows. I did follow up the project team and they're still working on that. I I will say I mean the we do obviously have approval for the windows and such. So just I think waiting on the the order to be fulfilled and so we can start installing those.

Um, but I know a lot of the bulk of the work on that has to do with interior demolition and basically just getting the building prepped and everything for the new construction that's going to be going in. Um, and we are preparing to submit amendment. Is that loud? Are you hearing this well enough?

Is this a little soft?

Craig, could you crank the volume up just a dash, please?

Is this a little bit better?

Oh, that's fine. Yeah, great. Thank you.

Okay. All right. Um All right. Quick.

Yeah. So, quick recap. So, Dery is still is still active. Uh still looking to get an updated letter as we're still looking to max out that 20% for the state allocation. Received allocations the last three rounds and hopefully this past one in August. As Emily said, we're still waiting on those letters.

Hopefully, we'll be receiving them in about the next week or so. Um, but yeah, constructionwise, uh, a lot of the bulk of the work is interior demolition.

Basically, just getting the interior prepped and ready to go for the new construction that's been approved. Um, and like I said, I know there was a question last commission meeting on the windows. As far as I know, everything is still okay from that front, but still waiting to get those final windows for installation, but we do have approval for the the new windows through the state and federal applications.

And how is the uh masonry where we had the loss of the bricks on the on the south side of the building?

Yes, as far as I know, that has been stabilized. Um, but we are still waiting to uh finalize the we want to submit a mockup to MHC and NPS just to make sure that that looks good before we finish the work. Um, so still waiting on that mockup. Um, and we've talked with MHC and NPS on that matter as well and they're they're up to speed and understand what uh the kind of crazy

situation that happened over the summer with the storm. I'll say are the plans to replace that with new brick or are they going to try and reuse some of the existing brick to stay with the same wear?

They are salvaging as much as they can.

How much that is, I'm not 100% sure, but as much as they can, they are looking to salvage. Yes.

Now, there was a concern with the rear portion of that building when the roof collapsed. Has that been restabilized or rebuilt?

As far as I know, roof stabilization is all good. I know we're looking at some some draining, but that would be located at the at the rear of the building, not visible on the primary elevations.

Is has the Has the roof been rebuilt at all or just stabilized?

It didn't, as far as I know, it didn't need to be rebuilt. It was just just patchwork and just stabilization as needed.

Okay, good. Any of the commissioners have a question?

No. I love this building.

It it will it will get there. There there's a lot of TLC going on and it's one of those where you just keep uncovering stuff um that you didn't know that was going to be there. Uh there was a lot of a lot of modern finishes within and so it's one of those that yeah, you keep unpeeling the onion and seeing what you find. But, uh, yeah.

No, it'll be it'll be a good one.

Okay.

Do we have a motion for a letter of support?

I'll make a motion for a letter of support.

Second.

And we have a second. Roll call.

Ashley. Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick Mancini? Yes. Okay. Let's uh let's get on to Chase Street. How's that going?

So, that and uh I'm assuming Alden might be the next one. They're just kind of sister uh applications with regards to the same client, but those ones, they are picking up steam again, which is great. Um I know they've been kind of on hold for a while. Uh but we do have an architectural team, um window specialists and such that I've been talking with uh the past month or so.

And the plans for both those buildings are the same. Those have not changed from what was provided in the application a couple years ago. There's still going to be apartment units, migrate apartment units within um but uh the bulk of what we are looking to submit with regards to this January 15th application are the window and door details as requested by MHC. uh that was really the bulk of the RFI for both of

those applications, but the plans and everything like that that we've seen before, those are still still status quo with regards to subdivisions for new apartments.

Was was there not questions with a with a warehouse that you weren't sure whether you're going to convert that to store front down? There was there was a a section within 135 Alden that was potentially going to be a restaurant.

Those details have not been finalized as of right now. The plan is just to finish that's a white box. Um and then if plans come forth with regards to the interior designs, obviously they'd be submitted and make sure that those plans are reviewed and approved.

Okay, good.

Any questions from the commissioners?

No questions.

All right. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion for a letter of support.

Do we have a second?

That's going to be for both uh 110 Chase and 135 Balden. Right. We got to take those together or Well, let's do 110 Chase Street and get that one done.

Motion for 110 Chase Street.

All right.

Second.

Second. Let's take that roll call. Yes.

Yep.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick. Yes.

And I will also make a motion for the 135 Alden Street. I'll second that motion.

Okay. First and seconded. Let's have a roll call.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Joyce.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. All right. And Rick? Yes. And now we have the 650 Plymouth Avenue, which is really a nice building.

Uh, and it's it's great to see someone getting out there and and trying to preserve that. So, if you could give us some some good news on that one and and what you intend to do.

Sure. And for that one, also on this call is uh Daniel, who was the architect for the the project. Um, so more than happy to answer any specific questions with regard design if you guys might have, but just as an overarching view of the project. Yep. A nice uh two-story school building that we're looking to turn into 18 uh new apartment units. Um looking to the for the design, the

exterior of the envelope will basically be the same. Uh looking to propose new windows to match the existing the existing windows are not in the greatest condition. Um and uh essentially retaining what the existing entrances are. um masonry, some spot pointing. Uh the roof, still got to look at the condition, but if it's still in good shape, retain it and just spot repair.

Uh interior, really looking to keep a lot of the historic fabric and just reconfiguring in relation to the new apartment units and making sure that we can fit them in as nicely as possible while also retaining the the integrity and everything like that. Um but uh yeah, no it's we're extremely excited.

Um we're also working with ownership as well with the projects. Uh but yeah, we are looking to submit a part two application both the state and federal for this January 15th deadline. And as I said, working with Daniel here on the designs. Um and me and Daniel more than happy to provide any other context if you have anything um or the board any other questions.

Yeah. No, just uh the only the the base I I don't know if you want to call that a basement. It's a half and half uh area. Is that going to be apartments in there or is that going to just be a a utility area?

Uh that is just going to be essentially storage for residents and still kind of retain the utilitarian. No, no apartments within the basement area.

Maybe a storage area or things. Okay.

Yeah.

Uh, no, it's really nice. That building has been sitting there and windows have been open and it's it's been a real concern to many of us about it deteriorating. So, it's really good that you're taking hold of that. Thank you.

Yeah. No, I make a motion.

As you know, obviously from from heritage perspective, it's what we love to do and uh yeah, no, excited about it.

Yeah. Good.

Okay. Any questions? No.

And a motion by Connie.

I'll second it.

And a second by Ryan.

Roll call.

Yes.

Yes.

Connie.

Yes. Sorry.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much, uh, Nate. Appreciate all the updating and Yeah. No, thank you all. And I'll keep an eye out for the letters and, uh, she'll see me again for the Let's go around. April, right?

Yeah.

Is it due in April or you're going to be presenting in April? It's due in April, I believe.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. The next round is due in March. Yeah. Okay, good. Well, have yourself a pleasant holiday season and uh stay warm.

Thank you. Yeah, you too.

Thank you. Thank you.

All right.

All righty. And now we have uh Ed is on the line.

There it goes. How you doing this evening?

Pretty good. How are you? Happy holidays.

Good, thank you. If you could just put your name and your company with us.

Absolutely. My name is Ed Hamzandlu and uh we are I'm representing Mass Mascan Capital. We are the sponsor developer at the project globe meal loss located at 460 Global Street in Fall River. And we are uh kindly today asking for a continued letter of support from your board for our fifth January would be fifth application that we are going to submit for Massachusetts Historic Commission.

Okay.

And uh to give you a quick update on the project since last we were on uh uh this panel a few months ago. Uh the project actually our capital structure is complete. We are on a schedule to start the construction in summer of 2026.

We expect to have 18 to 20 months construction with Q1 of 2028 units placed in service. This is the original schedule we had about 2 years ago. So we are very lucky to still follow that and uh we have not done any physical project on the uh site and we won't until we start the project. uh we won't do basically any small uh adjustment or any alteration until we start the construction without general

contractor. And in terms of the design, the design development set progress set that you received is uh materially the same that you received last uh last time. And uh we are in the process of mostly HVAC design uh happening in Q1 of next year to have the uh construction permit set hopefully by sometimes in the spring. But we don't expect that uh the the the design that should have changed at all.

Okay, good.

Are there any questions from the commission?

None. Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to give a letter of support for tax credits.

Okay. Do we have a second?

Second that.

Second. Roll call.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick? Yes. All right. Well, thank you very much and again, have yourself a pleasant uh holiday season and stay warm for the winter.

Thank you. I appreciate you all and have a wonderful holidays.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good night.

Good evening.

Do you know any units?

Okay. Well, that was went along fairly smoothly. That That's good.

All right. Next on the agenda is that uh I'd like to bring up a a question. Uh I passed out or I've asked or asked Carrie to put together an updated register of significant structures list. So we all have that which is good. Um what I'd like to do is throw this out there. Uh and is there anyone that would be interested in staying on top of this historical register list? Uh that would

be maintaining the existing and also when properties are determined to to be really of some historic nature. Uh do the paperwork involved to get, you know, to get this structure on this list. So we could expand. There's many many properties in the city that could be put on this list.

And also to remove a property and remove also that's demolish.

Yes. That's another thing. That's all part of keeping this straightened out.

That's a that's an excellent point. We have too many that has that are have been demolished or destroyed and still showing on this list. That would be nice if we actually don't remove it though. I think I think it's labeled as a small one.

It's noted.

Mhm.

And and this is I know I use this on really frequent basis. I just got a another call on some property on Rock Street that I've got to check uh on tomorrow. Uh and again, I'll be using this. So, I'm in this all the time, but it would be nice if we could uh maybe think about this and see if there's anyone that would be willing to accept the burden.

I noticed that some of the names on the agenda are not on this list.

Now, what does that mean? What is it? Means we're going to start working real hard attempting to uh Yeah. For example, 135 Alden Street is not on this list.

Does that mean everything that comes before this board is on the significant list?

No. Many of these properties are on districts are in historic districts even though they're not on here as a significant structure. So, uh, that you know that and then again if they're looking but they're also coming for tax credits.

Credits. Exactly.

And we want them to come.

If it's not on this list, somehow it made it to MHC and MPS.

That's because of historic credits because the building in itself is historic. It's over 50 years old. So, it's automatically a historic building.

Okay. And then what they do is they petition for credits and then that's how they start getting involved.

But theoretically that should be on here because it's already made it through NPS. I mean how do you get how do you get to the highest level like NPS and MHC and not make it on forever because it's never been it also needs to be nominated to be in here. So, and any one of us can anyone can nominate a building to be put on here. There's that form that we have, right?

And we can nominate anyone any any building. Any building you're driving down the street you feel you deem so really 135 Alden Street should be nominated.

Okay. And again, this is where I'm looking for assistance.

Just asking, you know what I mean? get take the form, fill out the form and bring it before us and we'll vote on it.

Are you volunteering?

Yeah. Like I said, there's two or three on the list. They never made it.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And and again, it's it's a a cumbersome uh there's a there's so many buildings out in the city that could go on the significant structures list. Uh again, as as uh Connie just stated, also 25 civilians, and when I say civilians, 25 residents of the city can determine and say, "Oh, there's a building I'd like to see on a significant structures list, even though they're not part of the

historic commission, can fill out one of these forms and submit it to us."

Homeowners can do their own home.

Yes.

They can submit it before us to approve it. Right. So, but it would be nice if we had a central commissioner to take on that task. So, if someone could either volunteer or think about this and maybe next meeting um I would like to volunteer for it.

Oh, yes.

Be awesome. There you go.

All right. Wonderful. Thank you so so much. I will do 135 Alden Street for you.

That is I'm really There you go. So, thank you so so much, Carol. That's And you got some hand you got some records yourself at the historical society. So, there's kind of a a network there.

Good.

Very good.

That's great.

Thank you so so much.

No, I I appreciate it.

Yeah. All right, boy. We're moving right along. This is This is a good night. I like it. Very productive. Good. Uh you'll notice here that we have uh the 2026 meeting dates.

Okay, they're all listed. I sent them I guess also uh a while back. Uh each individually was sent and this is now the official uh dates. They've all been put on the calendar on the city uh register.

Okay, any questions? Nothing so far. Move right along. Good.

The uh January 26th meeting will be requiring to have our mandatory vote.

So, we'll have to vote. Let's think about a chair, a co-chair, and a secretary.

And we'll have a vote in January.

So get ready to make nominations whoever's interested.

Excellent.

And congratulations to Commissioner Jonathan Lima. He's been reappointed by the city uh for another three years. So the city council thought he was uh in line for that.

Good.

uh and uh under I guess there's uh new business or well this is old business I guess uh in we've been talking about Roger Williams doing a study on the waterfront uh waterfront cultural district and they have completed their study uh actually uh last Tuesday I was at Roger Williams they had a presentation and Very that was a very impressive presentation about a 3/4 to an hour uh presentation uh on the

cultural district and where it was and uh they made suggestions uh uh unfortunately their determination also is that much of that waterfront would not be classified or in a historic area any longer because of the changes and I think some of the terms they use the damage done, you know. So, but they they really went on Columbia Street and looked at Columbia Street really well and the iron works and all of those

areas. So, they they it was very very interesting, nicely in depth. And what I've done is I asked uh the professor styles and also each individual student if they would come here on the 20th of January. So, we'll have a presentation at our next meeting. So, Hopefully, it'll be very interesting.

All right. Um, the Highland local district update is being conducted again by the public archaeology laboratories. Uh, it looks like all of the documentation has been put together. Uh, and they're now wanting to have a meeting pulled together. Uh, and any of you are invited, if you're interested, I'll give you a heads up and uh, but it's just going to be let's let's look at the buildings that they evaluated and then

let's choose 50 of those that we want to uh, write and get a full complete form B on and then we'll present it. There'll be a lot of public uh uh sessions also with this uh and the preservation society and the historical society are working very very closely handinand with this. Do you have any update on that that you want?

Uh no basically the same among the same you are.

Okay.

Y so we're still waiting uh to get together and that you know it's the holiday season. everybody gets a little bit of a little bit of uh work to attend to. So, you know, we'll we'll get that.

Hopefully, we'll have some good reports to the next meeting more definitive.

Uh let's see. Okay. Uh 162 French Street that we discussed and sent the letter of support to at the last meeting. Uh he's diligently working. Uh yeah, Mr. uh Andre is is working on that. uh his porch. He removed the porch, put some footings in. So even in this weather, he's out.

I think is his name.

Is it Fado?

I think it's and I thought it was repos. So I don't know where I came up with, but that's you know, tell where I am tonight.

All right. And then oh it now this this last 551 Rock Street 551 Rock Street that's the daycare center that they have not we have we're not officially aware of that project because no one has come here before the board that is in the 40C district. Uh there's a group that's gotten together.

They've got an attorney and they've been working very very closely uh attempting to I don't know modify the 40C neighborhood group. It's that's who who did it. That's the group.

Okay. What's the name?

It's the 40C.

The 40C. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a neighborhood group.

Yeah. We won't name names, but there's some key folks in there that are that are working very diligently on that.

Okay.

um the zoning board there's some parking issues and things. So, it's it was the petition that they were asking for was denied and uh we're grateful that it was denied. It's in the 40 seat district. It's a postage stamp for a a property. Um there is zero off- streetet parking. They would require over 20 parking spots for just employees. There's no off streetet drop off for the children or pickup. Um, so

this one business would manipulate the entire neighborhood's parking because uh their attorney um named X amount of parking, but he didn't account for driveways uh for fire hydrants and corners, you know, like how far 20 ft from a corner.

Yeah. So, there was a lot of things that weren't accounted for. So this was really kind of um uh it would have it would have had a huge negative impact in the 40 seat district and now with the one way on Maple Street, it's I just it what that does is just shows that the traffic during drop off and pickup of school times is really horrendous. And it it that becoming a oneway now, which is just

around the corner from there, June Street, that one block becoming a oneway for which is such an inconvenience for residents that live in there, but it just shows the um the high traffic, the volume that occurs during that time. So adding a daycare that was going to house over 60 something kids um is crazy. It was just going to add to the congestion already.

There's the Antioch school that's been there for, you know, before it was a 40C and and then we have the the dascese, not the dascese, the deaconess has um three homes in that one area, you know, which has employees and families visiting and whatnot. So, I know it didn't come before us, but it should have been at our forefront just because it's in the 40C district.

Yeah. and it has been it's just that we couldn't discuss it here because no one has presented to us but now that this is secured through the city and it has been denied in our 40C district uh I felt it was warranted a good chitchat this evening uh the the uh Antioch school is there and and you know as a from our perspective all of these things that G that Connie has just mentioned uh are

very very real.

And as a you know parent, grandparent, greatgrandparent, these children that are in daycare and and there are a lot of little three and four year olds that that are attending this daycare center. They have the whole range of of children are going to be disembarking from their automobiles right on Rock Street with all of that traffic that you know that in itself uh is is kind of poor.

I have a question. And I know Connie has done a lot of work on this, but I'm kind of curious as how the zoning board of appeals can supersede the 40C district.

How does the voting how does the zoning board disregard 40C district criteria? Yeah, the zoning board was only giving approval for on street parking and for signage. That was the only thing that they were requesting. The zoning board. Then the um building department can give them what was it called? A change of use.

A change of use.

A change of use. So right now it it was a business when it became a 40C. It was a dental office, professional office.

that can continue to be used as a professional office but the building al so the responsibility goes to the building department yes and they are also superseding 40 seat district criteria how do they do that I mean what what 40 seat district criteria can you stand on against other departments in the city of Fall River I mean miss what's the relationship there chair I I mean is is

what what criteria can we support that supersedes departments?

The the 40C district in the city of Fall River does not have a lot of restraints.

Uh we have no control over uh the color of a home. We have no control over shrubbery.

uh fencing to some degree. If it becomes a visible uh obstruction to the home, but if it's not a 8ft fence, then you know, we have very little control over that. The the 40C regulations in the city should be changed a little more uh in my opinion and so that they're a little more forceful. I that's a bad word, but in order to maintain, I guess, the integrity of the properties, there

should be a little more work on on that.

And uh that's something that's going to be on our agenda shortly. You know, I I think we should uh uh get together, even get some of the 4C uh families and open have an open meeting somewhere and and see if there are things that would be uh non-offensive to them or maybe get suggestions from them.

You know, there's also um the the people that bought this property bought it with the very intent to do what they wanted to what they were planning to do.

The the problem is I think is when you plan to do something that you know you're going to need ZBA approval or you know other approval to go ahead and purchase a property cuz they paid quite a bit of money for it. So to purchase a property knowing that you need approval and then I mean for almost a year now they've been doing work inside I'm sure spending a ton of money doing

work and they were banking on that it was going to get approved. I feel like what's the saying, you know, putting the cart before the horse or something like that's really foolishness when it comes financial foolishness I feel because you you buy a piece of property and you're pouring money into it, but you you still don't have approval to do what you want to do with it. Um, I just I just find that um

like I feel like realtors like I I know we've talked about this in the past like talking to realtors so that they understand um what people are buying when they're buying within the 40C district or when they're buying in a where zoning is going to need to be approved. I feel like buyers should be like aware if you're trying to change use or you know that I don't think that'll ever happen.

That's you have somebody who wants to sell and somebody who wants to buy. If I tell you the truth, I'm not going to sell it.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So, it's really too bad because a lot of money I mean they paid a lot of they paid $750,000 for the building. You live and you learn.

And with the intentions to put daycare there without one one off street and not even have an ability to put any off street parking on it.

Just another question. Is the buyer a nonprofit organization?

No, that's it's Are they citizens for citizens?

No, it's a for-profit.

They currently run a daycare now.

Mhm.

the the battle that they're having right now. What happens is that they're an educational facility and they they're legally registered in the state of Massachusetts as an educational facility. That gives them the right similar to a church. They can place them anywhere 40c. They can put them downtown. They can put it in restricted areas.

the reason why they were able to to you know go forth they were they were banking on being a um educational uh but I think there's parameters especially for outdoor play they need a location for outdoor play there's a lot of parameters that I think they would have to ply with whether it was early education or department of education to meet those requirements and I'm not sure if they did those steps or not

I don't know I think they will it's hard to transfer first you could have that daycare early education center and had that approval that umbrella but I'm not sure if that property would meet the scope of what the state will require for that.

I didn't even think you because it's a pretty tight lot drop off on street.

Yeah, I think I think I think there's a lot of significant issues and maybe they didn't maybe it was poor planning but I think there's they were going to maybe face several challenges going beyond this. The state requires so many square feet per child outdoors also indoors and that 60 is a lot of also. Yes.

60 students a lot for that building. I know they were doing some excavation on the side of the building. It looks like some kind of drain line through lines.

It was an entrance into the basement.

Oh, was that what it was? Okay. I noticed I saw that when walking passing.

So, I think they were using the basement too for I think we needed the square footage.

Square footage. That makes sense. to me.

Um, but wasn't that a medical facility? That was a dental that was a dental office and anyone like an attorney could move in there. Another dental office could move in there. That that's not an issue.

Um, the the issue was the change.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Now, the the two issues that they had that they were trying to get through the zoning board were parking and signage.

the the zoning board can control uh I guess the p the the uh signage on the city side. Uh they cannot on the historic side. So we as a 40C district and as a historic commission when when and they would have had to come before this board at some point. Uh the parking we have no control over the signage. We do. So whether the zoning board gave them permission or not, we

could deny it. The only way out of that is they have to take that to a a court.

They got run over Bedford entity. What's that? The civil court and uh uh bring this up at that particular court.

We don't even know. Like it was denied, but we don't know if they're appealing it.

Well, you don't know if they're going to come before the commission.

Well, they can't right now.

But if they choose not to. If they choose not to.

If the zoning board had approved it, they would have to come before us for the signage.

Okay.

And they our signage is very specific in our guidelines. So, their signage that they were proposing was not going to meet the requirements. they were going to have to change it. They were banking on the Antioch's old sign doing the same size as them, but the Antioch that's been um it it pretty much got grandfathered in when it became the 40C. So, if the Antioch decided to remove the sign and put up a new sign,

then they would have to come before us.

But right now, as it is, we don't ask people to remove, you know, and then comply with our guidelines. only if it comes up.

So they would only come before us for the signage if ZBA had approved it. So they didn't come before us because it was denied.

And the Antioch sign if when you it it's grandfathered in. So it's there. If it requires more than 30% of work to restore that sign, if it got in some repable condition, uh more than 30% they cannot repair it. It has to come down and then they've got to then fall under the 40C requirements for signage.

So I mean that we have our hands on and we can control to an extent.

But yeah, the day has used CPC funding and stuff like that. So they they understand the restrictions and they they very much want to be um historically correct with their property.

Any just I'll just throw out one more thing and and leave it. But I mean what do you mean what do you mean by daycare?

Because the city of Fall River is also going to be requiring kindergarten mandatory kindergarten.

So if you if you're looking at mandatory educational requirements for the city, what do you mean by daycare? Are you looking at No, I used daycare cuz originally that's what they had said that they were going to do and that's what I think they call their current um business, but they were they were calling this a um preschool.

Preschool.

So, it was going to be CH babies from babies to kindergarten.

Oh, preschool is going to become public school very soon.

Well, I all I know is that's the way they neither here nor there. What is your view on that?

Chooses to put their in preschool requirements.

I I don't really have an opinion on it.

You know, I just I just find that I'm just I find that unusual that somebody who's a buyer, like you said, would go out for a daycare criteria when in fact the city of Fall River has another goal, another direction.

I I find it difficult. I find it hard to believe that a buyer knowing it was a 40C district because she did know it was a 40C district um would just go ahead and pour all this kind of money into it without knowing if it could be done or not be done. I just think that wasn't that was like not financially a financial sound decision. I wouldn't have done that. I would have made I

would have asked like can I do X Y and Z before you put money into something?

Well, I just think would when you're talking preschool, you're probably talking city of Fall River School because that criteria is No, it's a p it's private. It's a private Yeah.

preschool.

All right.

Just like we have a public high school but some private school, right? The Antioch is private. Yes.

Yeah. It's a private school, the Antioch.

They they they must have some sort of legal advice also because that staircase that's to the left facing the building to the left has a handrail, but has no no guard rail. Has a handrail for the stairs, but it has no rail for protecting anyone or anything from falling into that pit.

uh the minute they put a rail and I'll call that a handrail tour or a guardrail. The minute that gets in place, uh depending on how it's attached or put in is going to just mandate them to come down to sit at this board and it's not being done. It's still open. That's a hazard. And I go by there almost regularly and I don't see if it's not a functioning business then it doesn't matter.

But 20 ft or so off the street, you've got a drop a 10ft drop that you can fall right into private property.

I wouldn't go walking over that mountain.

Don't go on that stairs.

So there there there's there's probably a lot of advice being given to them and and again we have not been formally approached so we have no real control or say at this particular point.

Yep.

But it was good discussion.

It was.

Would you like to continue or No, I'm ready to set.

Okay. Do we have a motion to adjourn?

The motion.

I'll second that motion.

Second motion.

Okay. Ashley.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And yes. Okay. The meeting is officially adjourned.