The Fall River City Council Committee on Economic Development and Tourism convened on December 20, 2021. The committee began by approving the minutes from its February 2nd and April 14th meetings. A communication from the One South Coast Chamber regarding the Fall River Arts and Cultural Plan Viva Fall River was tabled, as the organization was in the process of hiring an individual to present the plan, expected within a month. The main discussion centered on a resolution for a public arts policy, which had been referred from the City Council. Several individuals from the arts community, including Attorney Sandy Freys, Brittany Harvey (co-founder of FR MoCA), Michael Benavides (founder of Fabric Arts Festival), Sarah Rose (South Coast Community Foundation), and Patty Rigo (Viva Fall River), voiced concerns. They argued that the proposed ordinance lacked a comprehensive planning process, potentially hindered artistic freedom, and had issues with the proposed commission's composition and decision-making authority. They emphasized the need for broader community input and collaboration. David and Sandy Dennis, proponents of the ordinance, clarified that it was designed as a city-level framework to support arts and culture, not to restrict it, and was based on extensive research from other communities. Assistant Corporate Counsel Seth Atkins acknowledged the effort but raised legal concerns regarding the commission's structure and potential for disputes over artistic censorship. After extensive debate, the committee decided to table the resolution. Chair Councilor LeBeau proposed that representatives from Creative Arts Network (CAN) and Fall River Arts and Culture Coalition (FRAC), specifically Mrs. Dennis and Mrs. Castro, collaborate to draft a mutually agreeable policy. This collaborative effort would also consider the city's ongoing initiative to hire a tourism director. The motion to table passed unanimously, with the intent to revisit the policy after further collaborative development.
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0:20attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and being acknowledged and permissible the first item on the agenda is citizen input do we have any citizens i'm sorry yep okay roll call calcium household liberty lebeau here here is there any citizen involved no i have none written um the minutes to the february second
0:50meeting emotional proof second all in favor item number three i'm i'm sorry item number three is minutes to the april 14th meeting mushroom adopt second all in favor aye aye item number four is a communication from one south coast chamber the four of our arts and cultural plan viva fall river i know i did speak to mr sullivan from the chamber and also to mrs castro and it was felt that we should perhaps table this
1:28as they are in line of hiring an individual um who would be uh better at coming and giving us the plan of the uh arts and culture plan and people did they give you a timeline um they said probably within the month okay do you want to motion a table motion to table second all in favor aye item five on the agenda is a resolution regarding a public arts policy so a public arts policy
2:00um was referred to the city council um was submitted through the city council through um mrs to counselor dion and it was referred to the economic development committee even though it's an ordinance it was referred here for us to kind of look at it and tweak it um we have had a meeting on it and attorney seth atkins who's here today has had an opportunity to meet with all parties to try to come up with what
2:33would be an arts policy so at this point anyone who would like to speak on that in favor against um the microphone is there we've kind of separated ourselves a bit but i know that there's people that wanted to speak on it so is there anybody any proponents to it that would like to speak on it let me just say that okay could you just state your name and address for the record yes
2:59uh my name is sandy freys i have a law office at 345 north main street and a residence on robeson street the reason that i wanted to talk about this is primarily i'm not saying i'm either for it or against it at this point what i what i think based on my 30 years plus on the state cultural council which essentially is a planning agency even though it gives out hundreds of millions of dollars in grants
3:36it's always viewed itself as being primarily a planning agency and through that experience i really came to understand what goes into a cultural planning process next month or when frack is ready to go through what what their plans are then i think you'll have a uh you'll have a good chance to understand the really comprehensive long-term planning process that set the foundation for where frac is now now
4:15the only comment that i have about any cultural or public art project is that beware because few things can be more polemic and more controversial and generate as much vitriol as public art quite often because public art expresses the vision of the artist which may not be understood or even accepted by the general population just to give you two examples pablo picasso did a an amazing sculpture for one of the
5:03meeting places daley plaza in chicago nobody understood what it was nobody understands much of what picasso paints but in any event what happened is there was this huge controversy and it generated so much ill feeling that even picasso said i won't take any money for this so they got it for nothing now fast forward we have it at um at bicentennial park we have two of the most well-known and famous examples of
5:45war memorials and they they couldn't be more stark in their different visions what you have first you have the iwo jima statue which portrays what the population wants to see and remember about war which is the bravery and the valor so after the vietnam war a commission made up of of cultural professionals put together a proposal or a an rfp and out of that rfp came a proposal from a young architect maya lynn
6:33and that is the vietnam wall what does the vietnam wall portray it portrays what i think is the essence of war which is death and there was a huge reaction to that as well from a political committee that had been established under ross perot to also review the proposals for the vietnam memorial and they insisted that there'd be a change to the design and that change to the design then had three soldiers
7:15which they put off a short distance away from the wall memorial and they insisted this political group that that be part of the vietnam memorial so that those are just two examples of what you may be walking into and my only reaction to what is before you now is that it seems to me that the proposal is in many ways backwards i think before any proposal is submitted to this council it really should be the result
7:52of a long-term planning process what do i mean by that i mean first of all there has to be some initiative on the part of the council and the mayor's office that this in fact is a good idea they should be thinking about it before anything is submitted and then if the ultimate decision makers decide that it is a good idea then perhaps do what frack did when when we were
8:22going to develop our cultural plan the first thing we did was hire a professional consultant to do the rfp to make sure that was done right once that was done right then we also put together uh a competition among many different consultants to actually do the plan we've got i think five or five or six proposals from highly competent people we chose one and the result after a year was a 97-page plan the most important
9:08part of which is during the planning process you get a chance to work together so that everybody buys in and in the end it's something that everybody can agree to before you launch it publicly so that really is my comment where i'm coming from i'm not saying that a public art commission is a good idea or a bad idea it may very well be a good idea but i don't think you can do it without a
9:41comprehensive planning process thank you attorney freys
9:55hi my name is brittany harvey i'm the co-founder co-director of the fall river museum of contemporary art that opened october 2020 so in the midst of the pandemic also an artist myself i've shown internationally i'm based here in fall river i own a house on walnut street and i grew up in this area so i've had you know the past 15 years as of my life has been various cultural projects around this area
10:24in the contemporary art realm and so the fall river museum of contemporary art now that i co-direct with my husband harry we're very focused on the community and we've been working with the fall river public schools as well as some classes at umass dartmouth and roger williams university also talking at risd so very intertwined with the local institutions those arts conversations i also
10:56aside from all of my art involvement i'm my full-time day job is for the federal government as a contract specialist for the navy so i kind of see both sides of the conversation i you know first and foremost support artists and their freedom to the freedom of expression which is you know it's a unique thing here in the united states so i also see the side of federal regulation and policy and how the kind
11:32of over bureaucratizing of those things can really hinder equality and freedoms so along with what um sandy freys said i agree that i think there should be a more in-depth planning process for something like this just immediately looking over the initial policy i questioned the committee members and how those decisions were made as someone who's very integrated into the art community here in fall river
12:07i certainly would love to have you know input into this process as well and we've actually been in talks with the olmsted now non-profit or coalition in boston looking at how we could potentially do some um public art programming here in the olmsted parks and fall river and we just have very fluid conversations going on around really positive potential projects so you know i think to jump to implementing
12:39um a policy in committee like this would really potentially hinder the the progress that's already kind of being made um and we definitely would like a seat at the table in those discussions so i just prepared a note so i apologize if i'm going to be reading but uh i stand here yeah michael michael benavides i'm a business owner in the city throughout your marketplace and then i'm
13:07also the founder of a festival called fabric arts festival so and fabric arts festival is a multi multi-disciplinary art festival with substantial community international support that has completed three additions in the city of fall river fabric has has been responsible for most of the murals that now adorn the city including the recent viva fall river mural seen on the highway on the k building
13:30we have also created other public artworks such as architectural installation by international artist collective wisdia on the quickest and river rail trail we are also responsible for initiating fr moca with locally international local internationally renowned artists britney and harvey in harry i stand here today in opposition to the proposed forever arts commission we have built a brand and a movement around
13:55fabric with minimal intervention from the city we have created an art model that showcases forever to the region and internationally by garnering positive attention for this for the city through the lens of art we feel that the city does not need arbiters interfering in the creative process and that would be counterproductive to our initiative part of our success has been that artists have free reign to express
14:15themselves fabric does not include commissioned artists instead we contract artists who fit within the festival's narrative to propose works with complete artistic freedom we are interested in this process being organic therefore i oppose the formation of this commission thank you mr benavides
14:52hello i am sarah rose director of engagement at the south coast community foundation we're located at 128 union street in new bedford it uh needs to be a motion to wave oh should we have the rules second all in favor i thank you thank you our mission is to mobilize philanthropy by matching um uh donors and resources with community needs for the benefit of the region since 1995 the community foundation
15:22foundation has distributed more than 50 million dollars to from over 200 funds for humanitarian educational and cultural organizations in our region more specifically through the creative south coast initiative which is partially funded by the bar foundation we have funded frac and the arts and culture organizations in fall river some example of that is that we have partially funded the fall
15:49river arts and culture plan which frac commissioned last year we support capacity building for organizations in fall river that have 250 000 in annual revenue or less some examples of that are known surf yacour greater fall river arts association we've also arranged funding for a variety of projects including michael's fabric festival the bernie gets sculpture that's right here at one
16:22government center we are fiscal sponsors for brittany and harry harvey's fr mocha and we've recently opened a grant for open spaces for people and we are including fall river in that grant round we in october hosted an arts affinity tour that included 72 funders from the region and others to explore fall river's art scene as an economic and social driver in fall river we work closely with frac
16:55tdi mass development fund advisors donors and funders from within and outside of our region to promote and support the arts movement in fall river we believe the growth in the arts ecosystem that fall river has enjoyed to date is due to the entrepreneurial spirit of the arts organizations and artists in the city who are fueling creative growth frac has had a successful track record
17:23as a central organizing body for the arts and culture sector and funders from within and outside our network have been noticing the south coast community foundation hopes that the economic development and tourism committee will work to keep the successful and positive momentum of this collaborative venture going thank you thank you
17:55is there anyone else to speak okay um this resolution came in adam i'm sure we all go to speaking process or no before we get to oh yeah no i'm gonna absolutely i'm gonna try to be brief um i just wanted to clarify that it's not putting a commission together it was looking at creating an art policy yeah i think um yeah i'm not even sure there's so much information misinformation here i'm sure
18:25it would be good so let me just rewind about uh ten ten better than ten years ago as madam cheer know as i sat on this committee i chaired the committee so i'm really very very very familiar with other cultural tourism in the city which is one of the reasons that creativity was created uh through the chamber foundation by the way uh in january in june of 2014 and we worked with the
18:50community foundation for a couple of years until we became self-sufficient and uh can created a 501c3 and since then uh we for one and many of you are very well aware the very large number of programs that we've put on throughout the city and continue to do and we applaud you know the new organizations frack that have come up since uh uh since crane was created back in 2014.
19:17let me just differentiate the arts ordnance policy has nothing to do with creating or preventing any organization from doing anything the city it simply sets up as it has in other other cities and towns in fact new bedford's still trying to implement one there it sets up a simple framework where the city and appointees can set up a framework for other organizations including the
19:49current organizations including frac to work within the city to advance arts cultural and tourism that's what it does it's not to prevent creative people from coming into the city it's not to inhibit artists or anything that any anybody's groups do it's to support them it's to provide at the city level a structure and funding because that's one of the things if you read the policy in there
20:19it provides as it has in boston some funding for say someone a developer it's like one percent goes into a fund to help fund some of these projects in these cities that's what it does it isn't to prevent any artist or anybody else from doing anything in the city including frack or creative arts network or anybody else we've all done good work we all understand the need and the importance
20:46of arts culture and tourism in the city no one better than creative arts network who was created for this exact purpose and has been extremely successful we've spent more than 250 000 over the years all which is put back into the city none of us get paid it's all volunteerism and the only intent of the policy is to great on the city level a commission yes it is a commission but it's not to stifle anybody's autistic
21:15anything it's not what it's for if you read the policy it's very clear i know madam chair has read it i know the corporate council has read it i hope madam city councillor has read it i'm sure she has that's what it does simply sets up a framework at the city level to support all these organizations at the city level something we've never had in the city and it started
21:38way back in 2012 when i was sitting where you are madam chair as chair of economic development tourism because we recognize the need for one an organization and two over the years we also recognize on our interaction with many lots of organizations in boston that we need a structure at the city level that's what this does simply sets up an audience to support organizations that's what it does so i just want to be
22:07clear for the record and that's all we're asking that's what this is about and if anybody here is unclear about that we are certainly more than happy to sit down and explain it and if anybody hasn't got a copy of the audience although i'm sure they have read it because that's what it says it's not what was presented here so i appreciate your time uh the committee's time thank you very much ma'am sure thank you
22:35mrs hobby and just for the audience or who's ever listening or watching at home because of covert we've kind of had everybody sitting out separately social distancing but this is the conversation with all of the members of the arts community that have come here and they're all speaking from the microphone um just in response to that um we do have copies of the policy it was read there's concern around language um
23:06you know stating that this commission would be determining artistic merit um there's a problem there that's what i see and that's why i'm you know supporting more of a discussion around this yes i'm sure there's aspects that are in support of the arts community but the the people that are being determined to you know decide whether artistic merit is in a project or not it seems you know it seems unfair
23:40and i think you know to just kind of accept it as it is is not appropriate um i'm not sure why certain non-profits are kind of fixed figures on the the commission where as there are other kind of positions that are in flux based on the mayor electing them and i believe the city council electing them but um so i just i think this has kind of been put together without a full discussion um
24:12and that's really what we're or what i'm here to support today is having more discussions around around this thank you council liberty no um mr dennis sandy dennis 132 highland avenue as far as the commission is concerned it would be that people would submit resumes to the council and the mayor and then they would select no one's going to select the commission creativot's network clearly is not going to select
24:50a commission it's not our place to select a commission people should submit applications like yourself if you wanted to be on this commission submit an application the council and the mayor can vet those applications we're certainly not going to determine who's going to sit on this commission yeah did we want to have a seat on the commission yes we drafted it we thought we would be we have to after doing art
25:16and culture successfully for eight years we thought out of respect yes maybe you don't want the city doesn't want creative bots network on the commission so be it we don't have to be on the commission i really don't care we just want educated experienced people that understand public art every element of public art whether it be art in a park through plantings whether it be through sculpture
25:46whether it be through visual arts i really don't care who sits on this commission as long as they are qualified to select the appropriate public art not private art private industry can do what they want on their property it's public art in public places in the city and i think being a city councilor and a mayor they have the right to have a commission and pick people that can put public art
26:18where it should be in the city of fall river but let me be clear we're not looking to pick a commission national endowments for the arts americas for the arts mass creative they're all pushing cities and towns to implement public art policies we've been working on this since before cobid we put a lot of time effort and research into this we didn't just sit down one day and say oh let's have a public art policy
26:47scribble a few things and submit it to the city council we put a lot of time and effort into it into everything we do in every project we do every event we present to the public in this city so we didn't just this was just not a fly-by-night thing and it wasn't just david and sandy dennis that did it we had other people helping us creative arts network is not sandy and
27:11dave dennis i need to be clear about that too it is creative arts network we have a board of directors we have volunteers none of us get paid for what we do but public art is being looked at on a national level on a state level that's why governor patrick and governor baker want public art in construction in projects in the cities and towns that they're developing so i just wanted to make that clear
27:44thank you mrs dennis thank you
27:54from the policy that i read creative arts network was a mainstay on that commission not that they wouldn't be picking others on the commission but they were you know a consistent factor in that that does not seem fair in terms of the work that's already been done there's obviously a disconnect between you know city government and the rest of the residents in the city as i said i've i've lived in this area
28:23my entire life actively for the past at least 15 years have been involved in cultural happenings and creating them myself in the city and surrounding cities i am not aware of just about any of the work that creative arts network has done not saying that they haven't done anything i'm saying there's a disconnect so what they represent is obviously different than a kind of art and culture that i'm
28:51intertwined with here in fall river so to have them be a mainstay on a commission around a policy it just creates further inequality on what exactly public art means you know for the people of fall river so i think we need to keep that in mind regardless of the work that's been done you know there's a lot of there's a lot of people here that create out of um you know little resource
29:19and necessity and that's the kind of environment that i grew up in a very diy kind of make it happen yourself because the resources weren't there and i think you know bureaucracy tends to alienate those individuals who don't understand the process and don't understand the language and so i think this policy would further that and not kind of help to create a more integrated um you know approach to art and culture
29:48here in florida thank you hi my name is patty rigo i am the district director of eva fall river and i reside at 23 ward street in fall river um i definitely read the policy and it certainly is based on research the research that i don't see reflected is the research that was done over the year by the consultant that mr frey spoke about earlier civic moxie that spoke with the actual citizens of flow river
30:18because at the end of the day these are the people we need to speak about the we can make all the laws and all the ordinances we want but we have to constantly consider who we are doing this foreign it's the people who live here the people who we want to enjoy the city and the people from outside the city who we want to come in and be embraced by this wonderful city that we
30:33know but they might not know so i do think that you know policies are wonderful when they're well thought out and when people are considered all the people are considered so i you know i'm in possession of the the document 96 pages of the arts and culture co the arts and culture plan it just came out a month and a half ago we haven't even had a chance to really dissect it and really
30:54present it to people and there's a lot of really good information there a lot of good research that could perhaps inform this document and make it even better than it is i don't think that you know this is a yes or no thing i think it's just something that this is not in its current form something that i think would be in fall river's best interest at this time so i just wanted to say that um
31:14you know i do think the arts and culture plan is going to be a really good resource not only for this committee for all the arts and culture organizations every single one of them every single one in this room and every single one out there and i just wish um that in the collaborative spirit of what frack is about that we can all come to the table and discuss this and make a
31:30plan that makes sense for everybody including the residents thank you for your time thank you very much there anyone else that would like to speak mr castro hi i'm kathy castro and i know nine high street in fall river i'm simply going to ask a question which is frack was formed four years ago nearly four years ago can has been invited to all of our meetings i think they attended two or three
31:58we meet once a month we met virtually every month by zoom during the pandemic and my question is why if this was being moved forward didn't wasn't the collaborative efforts of frapp involved and why was it put forth at a time when a plan we send out monthly notes of meetings so everyone who gets them and that includes can knows what's going on with frack why wasn't it held back until this plan could be presented
32:34which we're in the process now of hiring a director for who was due to start january the 18th why was it put forth last april or may or whatever the date was at that time that's really my question unfortunately i don't have an answer to that the resolution did come in through counselor dion and often times you know individuals will contact counselors to pursue something and counselors
33:03will put in those resolutions but i don't know mr dennis elsa park so i don't really want to get into and i'm not going to get into creative arts network um how frack wife rack was formed not formed i mean i'm i don't want to get into that um but let me just clarify again we keep talking about this is about creating a city ordinance to facilitate arts and
33:34culture in the city this is not an arts and cultural plan so i hear people keep talking about the plan the plan the plan it is an ordinance and if i may let me just ask the city assistant corporate council is this not about an ordinance or have you read it and is it more a is it a plan or is it an audience as you understand it i can answer that it is an ordinance however
34:03the ordinance committee referred it to this committee right to be reviewed but you are absolutely right attorney dennis this is an ordinance and this committee would then refer back to ordinance after but this has nothing to do i don't think it should have came to this but this does not inhibit but this does not inhibit a arts and cultural plan that frack or any other organization proposes in the city
34:31it has nothing to do with that at all and i don't again i'm going to just end by saying i'm not going to get into a public discussion about and we've had this discussion we have we have maybe not so in all finished and out of respect for the committee i'm not going to get into frack and can if you want to do that in a less public forum i'm more than happy to do that
34:53but we're just talking about the difference this is an ordinance it's not a plan it's not going to inhibit it's not going to restrain creativity or arts and culture and tourism at all in the city it sets up a simple framework for all the organizations to work through that's all it does and i think it's pretty clear and i know corporate council has reviewed it i've met with him on two separate occasions i
35:17think we're very clear on what it does and what its intent is it's been passed in other communities we took a lot of this information from other communities and i've explained this to both of you uh so there's nothing in there that hasn't been vetted by other communities we're just proposing it for for the city of florida that's it so that's all we're asking and i think it is more than appropriate
35:40to have it done and done tonight we've been waiting a very long time and we've been very patient doing it we appreciate the opportunity to come here tonight thank you thank you mr dennis council of liberty do you have a question i wanted to respond to the last woman that spoke mrs castro mrs castro yes thank you um counselor dion did put this in after speaking with the dentists however um
36:04i'm in a little bit of a disagreement with the chair the reason it was sent here was so that discussion between all of the groups could take place there is uh and i'm sure you all feel it there is a very uh definite feeling of tension in this room tonight uh we wanted to be able to vet this here because i don't think this would be appropriate conversation for the ordinance committee the ordnance
36:24committee is is to fine-tuning an ordinance and this is an ordinance um which is why it needs um even more scrutiny once something like this is put into place it's it's a policy for the city um it's there was a speaker tonight might have been mrs harvey that that used the word disconnect and there seems to be a very definite disconnect between all the different um artistic groups and everyone here is in in support of
36:53arts and culture in the city as is the members of this committee that's why we're on this committee um so it's a little concerning uh that there it that there is this um divide i think anything like this which is why we we send it here needs to be not only vetted from an ordinance and policy perspective but also to make sure everybody working for the benefit of arts and culture in
37:20fall river is on the same page i'll guild for now mr sullivan hi mike o'sullivan i'm the co-ceo one south coast chamber at 200 picass street in fall river council i'm glad you just spoke because i think what you said is very important i don't think it's reasonable tonight to make a decision and or to make a decision in favor of an ordinance i i i'm opposed to the ordinance but
37:56if you believe there's a need for an ordinance then the ordinance should not be designed or written in a silo the ordinance should be done in a collaborative fashion with all of the arts community involved in it which is what frack has grown to become and just to clarify things because i know kathy said frank's four years old and i heard somebody else say it's two years old it'll be three years old officially in
38:22february uh and and i know that because it's the chamber that is is the uh the fiscal agent for fall river arts of culture coalition but it's a i really do believe that it's important that that if the decision is that you believe that you need an ordinance that this is not the right ordinance i mean i think that's crystal clear that this is not the right ordinance and others can argue
38:48and debate that it is the right ordinance but i don't think an ordinance written by primarily by one organization for the entire city when you have hundreds of arts and culture organizations throughout the city is is going to be the right decision and i think not i think i know that we have raised hundreds of thousands of dollars over the last three years to be able to write an arts and culture plan which is
39:18not an ordinance i understand it's not an ordinance and maybe it could operate with under the context of an ordinance but it's important to understand as patty rigo had said we have talked to hundreds of people in the city and we have documentation of who those people are we wrote a letter to the herald news back in in june when this originally came up and we had 33 different leaders
39:41in the community sign off on the letter in opposition to this and and and talking about what frack has done over the over the last now three years um i just i think it's important that we understand that and and know that this ordinance is absolutely not the right ordinance if it is what we need that you determine we do need an ordinance an ordinance should be written in a collaborative fashion with a lot of
40:08different people that's sitting at the table thank you thank you mr sullivan i do have one question is the arts and culture plan mrs rico did you see the arts and culture plan is done it is it's online mrs rico could you come to the microphone just because they're filming this and you'll be good so yes the um the full plan all 96 pages is online on viva faller.com and i'd be
40:38happy to send it to the committee as well and there's also an executive summary which i'm looking at right now and i just want to mention that um because i knew it i kept thinking to myself i know one of the goals specifically function specifically focuses there's six there's six goals and 27 strategies so it's like a really really you know it's laid out uh number five is focus on publicly accessible art
40:58and right here encourage publicly accessible art throughout the city so it's a major goal of frack to do this it's just we just want to have more of a voice my question is is there in this arts and culture plan any mention of any type of policy that's needed in a city there is um number three here says create a city of fall river functional art program it does not go to it does not say ordinance
41:21because i don't think we ought to automatically jump to we need to get this on the books i think we need to discuss and then yes of course there needs to be some kind of i think you know having done a lot of art in the city you know worked with artists the process isn't defined and it can be a little bit chaotic and you know a little bit of clarity would be really
41:38refreshing and probably really get things moving a lot quicker but it does not mention an ordinance it does not mention any kind of policy but it does specifically state about a functional art program and encouraging publicly accessible art throughout the city and i will also say it says create a publicly accessible art map which we do have on the website um and then i hope to have people to be
41:57able to pass out to people so that they can go and see all the public art that we have that they don't even know about okay thank you thank you one of the things that this council has done is to try to get a tourism director somebody who would be involved with all the arts and the tourism and all the activities that go on in the city and you know there are different websites for different
42:18groups of people if the city could put it all together on one website so that everybody knows what's going on i think it would be better to do because sometimes you have to go searching for uh what events are going on or and there's really a lot that goes on in the city that the general public doesn't know about um the lady that was from new bedford does new bedford have a policy
42:45that you're aware of or an ordinance i should say not a policy but any kind of an ordinance if you're aware i am not fully up to date on that but i do know it is being considered in new bedford where they are in the process i'm not certain okay thank you attorney atkins has had the opportunity to meet and talk to people what is your suggestion on this um situation good afternoon so um
43:17my input here uh is going to be well first let me just say that the law department tries very hard to not be political or involved in policy and try to give advice that's consistent with whatever the law is so regardless of what my feelings are one way or the other about any particular group or any particular policy or any particular plan my feedback is going to be exclusively with regard to the
43:46whatever legal concerns or whatever legal support i might have for this proposal uh first of all uh let me also say that um regardless of what the opinions are regarding the contents of this policy the fact that uh dave and sandy dennis endeavored to create it in the first place is a remarkable thing and i appreciate that thank you for doing it uh because it starts an important conversation uh and gave me
44:15something to to look at and and to evaluate and without that we're still just you know in a conversation about whether it should be the plan or the policy or the ordinance that comes first and that may be where the conversation ends up but i think the fact that dave and sandy took the first step to do this is is a bold and brave thing and i i'm grateful for people in our city
44:43whether you agree with them or not that do that with regard to my thoughts legally about the plan my sole interest is whether or not this ordinance will successfully facilitate a public arts programming in the city and allow there to be some standard by which we invite and evaluate and put art in place in its very different forms and i would say the two concerns that i have and i raise these with the dennis's
45:19are the the way in which the fall river arts commission would be would be comprised both in the number of people as well as where they're from i do see the potential for difficulty in continuously populating the board with people who satisfy the requirements that are set forth in the ordinance i think the worst thing that could happen is for us to all agree on an ordinance whatever that ordinance looks like
45:54whether it's this or some version of this or something else entirely and then not be able to get people to sit on the board because they either don't qualify under the requirements set forth in the ordinance or are so concerned about the possibility of either litigation or public outcry for their role in perceived or actual censorship that we end up with a board that is non-functional
46:22that's probably my largest concern from just from a legal standpoint and if i were to add something to the ordinance it would probably uh be some sort of language that speaks to the possibility that somebody would seek to challenge or litigate or otherwise um seek to disrupt the work of the commission because their work was was either rejected or censored somehow or somebody else's work was chosen and
46:56the perception is that that work somehow was was more socially acceptable but but not as creatively or artistically relevant i think there's a lot of different things that can come up i think the concerns over censorship uh in any anytime you do this i'm not talking specifically this ordinance are very real and need to be kind of dealt with and conversation needs to be had i think as uh
47:24as an example of uh legislative drafting that's been highly researched and thought out this is in many ways excellent but in a way that is not in my purview at all it seems like there is quite a bit of disagreement uh as to the order in which we should address a policy a plan an ordinance a commission and how that should come and i would suggest that this actually does provide a much better
48:01starting point than people might realize but some of the details might once worked out make this much more palatable to everybody involved the biggest piece being the number of people on the board which i would argue is a considerable number uh and the qualifications of the people on the board which i certainly understand and agree why those qualifications would be put in place um not saying that i
48:30agree or disagree with what those qualifications are but i understand the need for qualifications in order for there to be serious uh professional thoughtful people who are connected to the arts or artists themselves but at the same time once you create a board that is too prescribed i think you run the risk of being unable to fill the board thank you thank you mr dennis let me just address
49:00tony akin's concern i think we've had this conversation but um just for the better for the people in the room um when that was raised what we did say was that would be for something for the city council can look at those positions and the reason that they are some higher level individuals we're looking for people who have certain expertise that can offer the city their expertise through the creation of
49:22the of the commission and to try to in fact take some local politics out of it so we can find individuals who are who are well qualified to provide guidance and assistance to the city in developing uh their arts and cultural programs in the city so that's the intent of the the qualifications and in fact if the city council so chooses uh they can change those qualifications they can eliminate some
49:48of those positions that's not carved in stone um my having sat in the city council we've done that many times committee can look at that and say no we don't want you know some of those positions or some of those people with those types of qualifications uh but that's the intent of those uh and that was the purpose of some of those qualifications was to have people with a certain level of expertise and just one
50:11more comment policy precedes a plan i think i'm not sure where everybody's getting this idea that you know you create a plan then the policy follows policy comes before a plan that's anywhere in any organization policy is set just like the city does just like the city council does we set policy we set audiences and from that flows everything else okay we don't create plans and then create a policy policy comes before
50:42plans that's the way it works if anybody wants to my qualifications are i am a local attorney i've done this stuff before sat in the city council i understand audiences so i didn't create this out of thin air neither one of us did it was two years in research much of this has been taken from other communities where it's worked successfully it's been tested so just so you know thank you
51:14i do have a couple of questions on the ordinance itself or one is what you spoke of on the commission i feel like and maybe it was in a prior draft that there were term limits on here where i'm not seeing those now for each member i don't recall if i may is that question to me no i didn't see so i don't recall whether there were term limits in an earlier draft uh i know that
51:46um attorney dennis and sandy dennis have actually put a tremendous amount of work into this and revised it a number of times um and so it's possible that there were term limits in an earlier draft that i did not see or i just don't remember so from an standpoint um we need to be very clear on what those what that term looks like as well as section 2 1 above it fall river city council will periodically
52:16review the public art policy i think that also needs to be defined i think when we leave things open to um interpretation is is where we get ourselves into trouble and then the only other question i had and i'm sure it's in here somewhere i just can't find it right now is section one seven open invitational open entry and it says the process is open to all qualified artists where
52:42where do i find what makes a qualified artist so i believe is that in the definition and turning down is correct me if i'm wrong there was a definition of those who make a certain amount of income from arts uh in order to be full-time artists but i think that might have just been for the commission is that correct there were definitions in the original maybe you just don't have it but there
53:08are definitions so this one has definitions but only up to p so they stop before qualified artist well we could be sure they could look for that if that's a significant concern i do have a memory that was defined uh that that was a like a legally significant term for the purpose of the of the proposed ordinance um i just think it may not have made it into this particular uh
53:40set of copies okay and um either dave or sandy were there term limits on here or were the terms they were defined weren't they mrs dennis could you get up to the microphone please oh sorry sorry not unlike most boards or commissions there would be term limits staggering term limits on it and i mean this is a draft i mean i i think you know out of respect to the council and the committees that
54:13you can make some of those decisions if if you want to change term limits add term limits have them staggered term limits but was there a draft that you had proposed that you had the limits in it yes it was okay so you definitely saw it right and also as far as picking the commission i mean you can the ordinance committee can pick their own commission um you can pick how
54:37many the city council wants and how many the mayor i mean you might decide that you want the mayor to make all the selections um you may decide that the council should pick all the commissions um so that that we i mean that would be those are things that you could it's a fluid document so those are things that you know you can determine too and i would agree with you i would just
55:00be looking for input from the art and culture groups on who those people should be it would certainly would not be my area of expertise to say who would be best fit to be on a commission like this i'm glad that you have um you know done all this work put all of this together and given your feedback on who you believe would be a good fit for this commission um i don't have anything to
55:26to balance that with though it certainly wouldn't be my place to to make those determinations so that would be something that i would want to hear from um i think you want to you know put it up to an application process too you know to have people submit applications on not unlike what we do you know with community preservation we ask people to submit an application and the committee
55:48usually vets those applications and makes their recommendations to you and you ultimately you know pick those members that are going to sit on that committee and then i do have one other question on section 2 3 right under it it also refers to the second board the public art and design board which would be appointed by this board the public art commission board and that's when i get into a little bit of
56:12what attorney aiken had mentioned is do we have enough people to be on all of these types of boards i know just in the room here we have people that are on a variety of boards and we need to be able to fill this and also does not say how many members that would be and and you can pretty much determine how many members you want on your boards or commissions
56:36and pick who you know who you want through an application process but if you're looking at you know public art i mean i think you want you want people with some kind of level of sophistication with public got in in all elements of public art you know not just maybe sculptured up but visual arts with the murals and i mean there's so many i mean even plantings you know i know that
57:00you mentioned the olmsted pox we've done over the years a lot of work within linda you know we've done a lot of work with the olmsted parks in the city and council lebeau um and there's so many opportunities for public arts and and we did do a survey and one of the things during covert we found out was that most people want outdoor things and they did want public art and they do want
57:25public art in their parks and that's what that survey told us which is what another reason that we worked on this especially during the covet period when we weren't able to have events so i mean we clearly didn't take this lightly but i i think a lot of this a lot of the decisions can come through you know the ordinance committee and and you can make we don't we kind of gave you a framework but you
57:52can make the decisions you want and again hey i mean you don't want can on the committee so can doesn't have to sit on the committee it's certainly not going to hurt my feelings i don't really care but all we know is that a formal public policy for any city and town is a good thing it's being told from a national level a state level that people want to see public art policies
58:19not this plan and the public policy will support any art and culture plan so thank you thank you well i think for me part of the concern that i had addressed was the number of people that would be on a committee and where they would all be from and what their backgrounds would be et cetera but i've got to agree with the council vice president that i don't think that the council even if this was
58:48an ordinance committee i don't think that we have anybody on the council that has as much knowledge of the arts community as the members of can and frack have of what what can be done um what some suggestions are because you work with it every day i would make a suggestion that we get members of can and frack together to review the policy look at the policy and see if the policy warrants putting in an ordinance
59:24um and i know that frack is going to be hiring somebody to come in on the 18th i know that the council has expressed to the mayor that we do want a tourism director as well and there would be um people who could help and put together what is our policy going to be and give the legal department opportunity to see what policies are in other communities what is the policy
59:51that we need to create and all work together on that one vision that would be my suggestion i don't know how frack and can would get people together to have that meeting maybe as a subcommittee to each organization to have a group of people meet and come up with a policy um and then we could take it from there mrs castro yeah i would like to say i would just like to say that i would
1:00:23definitely welcome that and i think that's a great idea i think that bringing i think i personally think this is a very important decision and uh it will have long lasting effects and i i would certainly welcome putting together people from frack and people from can to sort of fine-tune it go through it come up with answers such as counselor lebeau was raised today and uh put it forth as as sandy said
1:00:54it's not that there shouldn't perhaps be an ordinance but there should be more consideration i feel given to what we pass eventually as an ordinance and and i have to say that i think bringing the arts into a community really brings economic development of course it does to a community and we we want to do that um for sure and you know over the years i've gone to things that uh can has had
1:01:20i've gone to things that frack has had they were all positive for the community yeah so if um maybe mrs dennis if she and you mrs castro could get together and get a couple of people from each of your organizations have a meeting review this and i'll table it here or i'll hope that it'll get table to you in this committee and when you've done that work on that given mr sullivan and the appointee that
1:01:50you have and certainly checking with the mayor on their director of tourism where that's at exactly and when it's ready um to then bring it back and we can then move to looking at creating an ordinance i think that's i think that's i think that's a very good resolution to the issue and and certainly i i believe that i can speak for fracking saying that we would welcome that thank you thank you
1:02:14council of law yeah i think that's a an excellent suggestion madam chair i did speak to the mayor today about the tourism director he actually called prior to you chairing this committee i chaired this committee i don't think you are on the council that term but we had in in this committee um the position of a tourism director to be vetted unfortunately that administration could not guarantee that they would do
1:02:46the regular posting and hiring process which is why it didn't move forward from there as you can imagine they also that administration had also asked the committee to come up with the job description which i'm not sure that that would be our place to do so i think that would be more of a collaborative effort between the administration and the different organizations um you're correct where we we do need a central
1:03:15person to do all of these things and to bring all of these different groups and events together there are so many things happening in the city that people don't know about i know i believe years ago mrs dennis used to have a calendar with all of the different events on it you still do and we need a i think the city would greatly benefit from a centralized location i don't know that it would
1:03:39actually be called a tourism director because there are so many pieces to it and that we would want to make sure that all of this is included because we have we have great events that are put on throughout the city that um sometimes just aren't publicized enough and i think people really miss out i was uh speaking to the director of the historic museum and he was explaining how they had bus tours coming into the
1:04:07city this and i i didn't know that that we had bus doors coming into the city and there's different stops along the tour that they do and i would bet that there's a lot of residents that don't know that there are there are things like that happening here um so i i am in in support of that if we do have that i don't know that it's in this
1:04:25year's budget or if it can be he did speak of um how that might work with arpa funds on a contract basis we'll have to see uh madam sheriff that's something you want to speak to about but we did just have that conversation today we have spoken about that i've got to say one of my favorite things was when can did a tour of all the homes in the highlands at christmas time
1:04:47and you got to go in and see beautiful homes decorated i also believe the preservation society did that as well correct preservation preservation society um yeah they were just so many things um the underground railroad um there there are a lot of things that happen and you know we have to figure out a way to get that message out there more um it's just even the um do you have yeah i
1:05:12just wanted to make one comment because um i just wanted to address just for the edification of everybody here that viva fall river does have a community calendar that people do submit to it's been going on for about six months now we have hundreds of events on there that are updated by i have a person in my impla employee who contacts people we have that we also have a section on arts
1:05:30and arts and culture and also a section on tours and we create videos so there is a lot of work being done to let people know um i welcome if whatever decision the city makes i would love to work with that person i've been doing this um you know on with my colleagues at frack and um we've been doing it with the support of the city no funding i just want to make that clear there's
1:05:49been no funding from the city but they're fully aware and a lot of the events we do we do with the city but it is our goal to make sure that people know exactly what's going on and and that's what viva farmer is all about followers longevity prosperity and making sure that everybody feels valued and that our culture is represented so i just wanted to put that out there that
1:06:06you know if for now until we find something that's better or um that we can enrich um vivaflowriver.com is there for people to check out i think that's great and i was at a uh an event and i met this gentleman who lives in the boston area who's an artist and had heard about fall river's up-and-coming art community and i forwarded that information to mrs rico to connect with him he's looking at moving down or
1:06:33being more involved so the word is getting out there so i would leave it up to um mrs dennis and mrs castro to put a few people together from each organization and to draft a policy that um everyone agrees with and at that point it would just be tables here do i have emotions motion and table is the second all in favor aye seeing as no other um items on the agenda emotions
1:07:01second all those in favor thank you thank you thank you all and have a good merry christmas stay safe you