2.21.2023 Historical Commission

all right um good evening everyone and thank you for joining us for the Fall River historical commission's hearing um it is uh Tuesday February 21st 2023 it is 604 p.m and this meeting is being held uh virtually via zoom and will be available uh it's being recorded and will be available on YouTube as well as Fall River government television pursuant into the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video

recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible um may I get a roll call please for the historical Commission here George here here Elizabeth here Rick Mancini by his own

and Jason Bouchard and Iraqi uh here via Zoom all right um we have two open seats um first up uh item number one a review and approval of the minutes from January 25th 2023 and make a motion to improve I'll second that motion all right I have a motion by Connie and a second by Rick uh may get a roll call votes on that please uh Connie yes okay Rick Mancini yes Joyce right Joyce Rogers yes

yes yes okay thank you um do we have any citizens input of or tonight okay um the first item on uh notice of intent to demolish this is item number two uh the address is zero Vestal Street it is a garage I was reached out by Carrie in the licensing department she I did indicate that the property is not on the city's register of significant structures so that was that item number three

pertains to 145 Hanover Street this is the Waldo Ames Buffington house uh Circa 1878. I did indicate that the property is on the city's register of significant structures it is only on the city register it is not on the national register nor is it part of the 40c and I think we have uh Joe pachico here to presents on 145 Hanover Street yeah that's correct thank you and if you wouldn't mind

stating your name and um address please it's Joe pachico 411 Columbia Street

um what is the um the intention for to demolish if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit about the project at hand sure you want to go back to the beginning so I have a little bit of an explanation about how many minutes I have um we haven't really set my notes in the past but uh if um whatever we whatever information we would need to I'll be very brief I'll

try to all right we purchased this property um uh let me see February 7 2022 uh even though the the house itself it was a night in good condition however we had no intentions of demolishing the home okay uh based on the square footage that we had which is a little bit over 15 000 square feet we could have three billable Lots so and when we divided well we'll build

two houses and keep that one in place the only issue is this course was he needed uh precisely on needed like we needed 15 feet from the street I'm sorry 13 feet we only had 10.

therefore we would we would meet that two feet to be waived by the zoning of appeals okay so we went before the zoning of Appeals to wave that do two feet that was a setback from uh from uh Hanover Street was uh Maple Street in and on so on June 9th we went before zone of appeals to get to get those two feet waived which is normally it's a piece of cake that gets waved it's very

small amount of feet to be waived meantime at the meeting there was about 10 neighbors that were poles the waving of the those two feet so they definitely a pose those two houses to be built in keeping that house there so after the opposition from The Neighbors the whole board voted against our variance I've emphasized that the only thing we need Ed was to from Maple Street after that was done we get about 10

people or so from the neighborhood opposing that then we have all five members there's only the people voting against we we have no alternative other than the mouse the house even though by the way it's a cute house and we wanted to keep it even though it was in bad shape but we've had intentions of keeping but after that there was not nothing else for us to do and the only

other option was okay we need to build three houses so we have to we have no options but other option but the model is this house uh and that's where we are at we we submitted for demolition we didn't know there was another one on the list of significant structures we didn't know at the time which you know I feel bad now with this whole situation became about but we have spent

a tremendous amount of money doing all this work all the engineering through zoning the appeals everybody opposed a proposal what do I do and that's where we are it was not our decision to demolish we had no intention of doing that I'm going to be very clear this is all public records and you could go back to the zoning of appeals meeting of June 9th and you can say on information that providers are accurate

okay thank you um do I have any questions from the board at all regarding this project it happened I happened to see that meeting uh where that proposal was made and and the uh responses um as a historic commission uh that's a really Charming looking home uh that that really is a nice looking piece of property and adds to the neighborhood so um I'm uh I'm for leaving the house there that's that's fine what do you

think a letter from the historic Commission stating the value of keeping that kind of property that style that particular piece of property at its present location and that the historic commission would rather see who knew homes being built and leaving the existing home existing as opposed to having it demolished at three new homes being or modern homes being placed there do you think that

type of a letter would be of assistance to you it would have been in the beginning when we did the proposal initially which happened that you you saw the meeting but at this time it's it's it's very complicated because we have to spend a lot of money due to their decision uh and we can't just go back and forth and just keep on spending money in the I mean I agree with you it's a cute house

and that's the reason we like to keep the house because it's so cute and they fit in the neighborhood and actually I couldn't believe those Neighbors who against the project when we're going to keep that house and now it's been there over 100 years I was appalled by that decision uh but but all those names as you probably remember and plus the five votes from the board you know it left us a little bit uh no

option and again the amount the amount of that we have spent with engineers in in everything else we've done to this point uh I don't think we want to go backwards it would appear to me that if you had a strong letter of support from the historic Commission stating these facts that if you presented to the planning board just present again reapply it almost in my opinion would would seem a lot less expensive than

demolishing that piece of property is it worth is it is it worth the option of doing that all right let me let me say this originally we did say I did say that the house it's in bad bad condition all right the only thing we would save is the outside of the house that was what we're going to save because like you said and I agree with you it's very

nice and very cute it's a very nice house uh from the outside and we want to keep it but to go backwards knobs after spending all this all this money I mean originally if that was done possibly could would be a possibility but to have that many people against this project of keeping the house I don't even believe they will they will go along with that honestly because if you saw the um if

you saw the meeting did you said you saw the meeting right I did all right and I'm going to mention there's something how one of the person still fishes the name of that our company is dream homes which I think is a cute name right dream home so we've been building for 30 years and it was an individual that's in public record it's recorded called nightmare homes I I that never happened to me 30 years

it was like appalled by the fact that they call us nightmare homes just the fact that we were doing what we don't or submitted to keep the house into my to my homes I'm just giving the whole picture and there's nothing that I'll make this up because if you if you heard you probably heard that same comment which to me was very disturbing and that's and that's where we are at this point

um the uh the property itself so were there any thoughts as to possibly moving the house ever so much to because I think from what I understand um the house is in the way of a potential subdivision or a new property line um is there an option of moving the house over a little bit uh with that the financially I mean instead of building three new houses you're now building just two but you're

just moving the house over however much to allowing your subdivision to occur yeah it would be extremely expensive to move that house and again the house is not in the house that normally we we like to work with all the homes but because the specific one we're willing to do but to move that two feet in uh it would be you would have to rebuild a whole new Foundation lift the house and

again it will never be a beautiful home an inside because of the condition of the home and that's you know people living inside the house right not outside in the outside has to do the neighborhood and unfortunately neighborhood was against right which I also feel that you know for the board members that should be familiar with development for River in all of them forward against I mean it's a liberty right

so that because the property is on was listed on to the city's register um there it comes with it a six-month demolition delay and this that allows the opportunity for the owners of any property that uh if they're looking to demolish to meet with us um and that happens prior to receiving a demolition limit um and so and this is exactly why just to meet with you and to find out the

options that you have done and um you know I I it's too bad that you can't go back to the zoning board with a letter from us because we have written letters in support of various projects in the past um if it meant maintaining and keeping a historic structure in the city um and you know those are things that we have done in the past um keeping the property in the suit like

move to a different location if someone was willing to take the property is that what you're saying um well if so um if you're to maintain or instead of tearing the house on if you wanted to get that that letter that would have allowed for the two foot variance um you know we've we have offered letters in the past uh in support of subdivisions if it meant keeping that structure intact or at least

um and not demolishing it um but as as you have mentioned you've already gone through the zoning Board of the zoning board and so forth um I mean I don't know if there's as Rick had said if there's a way to go back with a letter but as you said you've gone through this already um we have the gentleman that witnessed the meeting so you know the you know so I tried it's not like I I

didn't make an effort to do to keep it right okay um any other questions from the board at all regarding this is another question so I'm curious the reasoning that the neighbors gave or why they're opposed to the variants for yourself yeah why do oppose yeah why were the neighbors opposed to the zoning board granting the variants well I think mostly because they were not really did into an investigation

that we we had the the size logs to build three homes or to have two homes plus that exist in home either way we would have three new homes that was the option obviously they didn't do their homework to know that we have all those options they just you know I've been doing this for a long time sometimes people just suppose what the heck of opposing um uh so if they have done their homework and

they knew they we possibly could demolish the house and build three homes if I don't know if they would change their mind um accusations they even said that besides the one that I just mentioned earlier that we should have done our homework because we purchased the property and now we stock with the property that I can build through homes right which was incorrect also because they didn't do the homework

um and that's the reason they opposed just the fact that there was a state they didn't want to build three of those there they didn't want to see three homes there that's basically what it was the gentleman that witnessed the meeting probably can attest to that um is it possible that now public opinion could change that the history regarding what the plan is is known and they probably didn't realize that three

new homes were going to be built um when they made the opposition I I don't know I mean I mean I I didn't I didn't know what was going to happen with this meeting I just found out this week that we're gonna have this um I don't know I mean either way I have to wait six months no matter what decision is right it appears that if I go ahead

and decided to the models I gotta wait six months am I correct that's correct but I figured in the meantime if you have to wait the six months perhaps you could you could actually go back explain the situation they may not have realized it um lots of times that's what I'm saying that's what I'm saying I'm sorry that's what I'm saying if I have to wait six months I might have time to

maybe reach out to people and see if there's any possibility of doing anything else yeah absolutely I I never closed the doors I'm always leave a door open I'll try to look at all the possibilities and see if even possible you don't think I don't want to do is spend more money but before there's only the pills again spend another four to five thousand dollars you can have these

people opposing I mean your letter could be significant but is it going to change everybody's mind don't forget we had about the neighbors plus five members voting against that strong opposition uh to change all these people's minds I don't know if we're back in that situation but again I can reach out to people I can indicate the maybe some members of appeals it seems like it would be a huge

Factor if people realize the alternative was tearing down the house is there regardless um I mean I can't assume what their opinions would be but if I were in their position I would rather see one existing house and two new houses instead of three new houses so I think you know I really do I agree with you completely you know like sometimes we have to think about like uh the people that are

opposing it's their neighborhood it's where they made their home so they feel very vested and um the unknown is scary uh to them and so um they didn't have an opportunity to speak to you personally so it was in a public meeting so they obviously you know people's emotions are high and uh they want they want what's best for their neighborhood so um and we all want to be good neighbors whether you know you're living

in those in the properties you're going to build or if you're going to sell them we still want to be good neighbors and um create good neighborhoods um and so I I think I know you're offended by the their approach and what happened to you that day and I'm sorry that it went down that way uh but I think perhaps with a little bit of time now and uh with support from us we're

willing to write that letter uh maybe we could get somewhere differently so you don't have to wait the full six months to stop building again this is after 30 years the first time I have I encountered the situation I've done a lot of demolitions throughout the city uh again I'll we'll look on that option also I'm not going to close the door on that option we'll look into that we'll

look at the house again see if there's any way we can keep the house and reach reach out to the board reach out maybe I mean the way I was treated I don't feel like reaching out I can reach out to the to the board but not necessarily the neighbors because I think I was treated unfairly because I've done a lot of good for the city um but again I

I'll I'll try that's something I can do right now and promise I can try so and that's what this what the six month demolition delay allows us to do is to have it gives us time to have a conversation to we can if you would like a letter of support to allow uh for a variance uh uh or in support of a variance um that's you know we would love to see

the house standing versus having it knocked down it's been there since the 18th uh what did they say 1870s um and uh you know and that part of that part of Hanover Street has gone through a lot of changes uh right up the block where um Charlton Hospital is so many houses were demolished so it'll be a shame to see another house gone or in the neighborhood especially that that's stood there for so long

um you know and adding two other houses to that neighborhood you know it's already especially across the street those two lots the um your particular property and then the one next door um those are the two that have the most space in terms of uh land but then across the street you have the neighborhood becomes quite dense um even beyond that down Maple Street and all the other streets it becomes

quite dense so adding to the density it's a city um I you know I don't want to see all that green space gone but then I also understand that we do you know kind of sandwiched around all this density and if it means keeping it um you know there's you know there has to be some flexibility I think in terms of preservation um but um you know and if it means going

back to the zoning board we can show some support with you know maintaining uh preserving the house or at least keeping the house standing and um letting people know that you know what your intentions are um after the six months it this is a prime example of why we have that delay okay I understand all right well I'll I'll I'll look into it I didn't know how this video was come

out so I'll I'll look all my all my options I definitely will look at this other option if there's a possibility of doing that right and if I see that option is going to work out okay uh maybe that's we can go that route and if it does then I'll reach out to you know carrier City Hall in Detroit and take it from them Perfect all right thank you so much

thank you and good luck and let's hope we can we can add a lot to this to help you get through this thank you welcome thank you

um I um um I was a do we well there's no reason officially we haven't officially said we're gonna he's gonna look at his options and then reach back out to us okay okay okay so this will be continued um all right all right so can you uh next uh item number four um this is a under correspondence um we received a request for a letter of support um for Massachusetts historic tax credits from

seg uh from sorry uh a street one a street LLC uh for Sagamore Mill number three located at one a street uh we have a number of people here for this particular plan um if you wouldn't mind introducing yourselves and stating the company that you're affiliated with Kyle taeger I am uh affiliated with one a street LLC which is um owns 1A Street and um I'm one of the owners thank you

Charles aghorris also one of the owners of 1A Street LLC I'm finally from Epsilon I'm assisting 1A Street thank you uh and Adam tager I'm I'm the third owner of wine Street thank you very much for joining tonight um if you wouldn't mind uh talking a little bit about the project that you're going to be doing over at the Mill structure Brian we're going to defer to you if that's okay that's perfectly fine

uh so actually can I share my screen real quick I believe so Alex um can he share a screen it looks like I can so let me see if I can just yeah it should be open thank you so you should all be seeing the building uh this project is uh largely involves replacing the windows on the exterior uh adding solar panels Up on the Roof and mechanical equipment upgrades on the

interior it's it's basically it's an Energy Efficiency upgrade for the building and it's being submitted for State historic tax credits through the Massachusetts historical commission and it's also under review for federal historic tax credits through the National Park Service uh as you can see on the building there's a lot of different windows that have occurred over time some of them

have been infilled or replaced or infilled and replaced and the idea is to try to go back to what we believe is uh likely the original pattern which is actually kind of shown in this window here and we would go through and replace them all pretty much throughout the entirety of the building uh back to the original pattern along with adding some rooftop solar you won't see the solar because it's actually

going to be set back from the roof Edge so it's it's pretty it's a kind of a light facelift project I will show all you know it kind of bring back some of the original appearance of the building on the exterior while providing some Energy Efficiency for for the owners and their tenants as as you're not familiar as part of the state program for a Massachusetts historic tax credits a letter of support

from the local historical commission is required as part of the application and the next application deadline is April 30th okay thank you we're just going forward um so are there any questions from the board regarding we did get the uh the drawings so that was a very comprehensive package that you gave to us to review uh very impressive by the way and and very detailed and I'm I'm all in favor and uh if there was

I'm sure if there are other questions go ahead but I would like to make a proposal that we get a letter out of acceptance there are no other questions but I'm I'm very impressed with the drawings and what you intend to do with that building it was very very detailed I second that motion and I'm very excited about this project and what you're doing that's great were there any other questions sorry no

um all right so I have um thank you very much for presenting we have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie uh in support of a letter for your next question applications uh make it a roll call vote please Bonnie so yes Joyce Rodricks yes the block yes Rick Mancini yes and Jason Busch Gardner Rocky yes um I will have that letter to you by the end of the week

um you're well ahead of the the game for your tax credits so um you'll have that by the end of the week and um if there's any other questions or please yeah you know how to reach me so in the board as well thank you very much I appreciate it thank you thank you very much for storing that building thank you it's going to be really a beautiful building when it's done yeah

they appreciate the commission support thank you welcome thank you thank you bye-bye okay um the next uh next up was item number five um I received correspondence uh from public archaeological Laboratory um in regards to the Spencer mccomer Farms Cemetery at 1046 Blossom Road I did send that around to the board uh for every review there's no action needed it was just simply the um uh burial ground form e uh that is

required by the mass historical commission the property is being surveyed um so we did review um City last last month's meetings for the same property this is um the cemetery that's on the same parcel um let's see next is item number six um we received a request for a letter regarding a letter of support for a special use variants um for 472 Walnut Street uh this is being presented to the Fall River zoning

board of appeals requested by civits and we have Michael Keane from civitax here um hello how are you tonight good evening how are you good thanks everyone good good so thank you for having me on I appreciate it and uh What uh we are looking to do just as Jason mentioned is relocate our office to 472 Walnut Street so it's a property that was constructed back in around 1860 and it is on the

state historic register as well as the national register and we purchased the property several years ago and part of the reason why we purchased it um when we looked at it Ann and I about 20 years ago we really loved the place uh but didn't have the money to afford it back then um and then when it came up for sale recently the last few years we took a

little look at it and a lot of it has still remained unchanged from when we saw it 20 years ago and we decided to purchase it mainly um with the intent to restore it and back then when we had met with a realtor anybody that was looking at the the house was looking to cut it up into apartments and in some cases there was one one group that was looking to turn it into a group home

um and it wasn't something that we wanted to see there's a lot of interesting details inside the house as well as the exterior uh it has you know wood windows 606 wood windows and on the interior are the um original pocket shutters at all the windows on the uh Walnut Street side which is kind of interesting that's something that you you see very often so um what we're looking to do as Jason

mentioned is we're looking to relocate and get a letter of support we don't have any immediate projects just yet uh I think the first thing that we would be tackling or taking on would be um more infrastructure interior electrical upgrades uh as well as mechanical nothing on the exterior for or for at least the first year but anything we would do of course would be sensitive to the historic architecture

of the residents and so I'm sorry no go ahead I know and it's currently zoned I think it's zoned as Apartments it's owned uh in the A2 district and it's um directly across the street um also on Walnut Street sharing a Walnut Street address is a dental office so the parking lot is on High Street um I think there are businesses just about on every corner of that intersection uh at Walnut and High Street

um you know in that general area so uh the house itself going back to the 1980s and when we saw it about 20 years ago um has operated as a business back in the 80s and 90s and early 2000s um it functioned as a catering business so the lower level basement level uh was sort of a walkout basement there was a commercial kitchen a full commercial kitchen walk-in freezer uh the range and

the hood is gone now but um you know is the upper floors are used as office spaces and then the last and one of the previous owner was using as a bookkeeping business so there is a history of business use and um you know there's there's not much impact that I think we would have to the area most of our our work we do site visits and leave the office we don't have

clients come to the office very often but so the full use or the intentional uh the proposes will be strictly for office for your office yes yep yep okay um I does anyone have any questions for the uh and I'm ready to make a motion to approve a letter of support absolutely and I'll second that motion all right so we have a motion by Connie and a second by Rick this is for letter

support for the zoning board um and may I get a roll call vote please Elizabeth yes yes foreign yes and Jason Bouchard and Rocky yes right uh Michael I'll have that letter sent out to you uh by the end of the week so you can get rolling on that all right I appreciate it my pleasure thank you so much nice going Mike we've got another piece of property that is being saved

yeah that was I appreciate that Rick it was I can't wait to see it when it's finished yes yeah I will have you over Joyce that's for sure uh so yeah it was um you know it was a decision we we made and it was just you know um it was solely done for you know we didn't want to see it destroyed and how many of you I know you all appreciate

can't appreciate that right how many houses we've seen with the details of stripped and final sided and that you know so the intent when we bought a few years ago is eventually to relocate our office so now the time has come for us so I appreciate it everyone thank you bye

so next on the list at item number seven this is um a letter of support for CPA funds uh for the Charles Cole house at 80 Belmont Street it is being requested by the greater Fall River Art Association and I believe we have Dana Barnes here from the Arkansas yes I do hi can you hear me I'm I'm on my phone um I have sitting with me here um the vice president Ron Gagnon coach bear he

is also sitting here and what we're um we're looking for our second round of CPA funding our first round has been approved and we're working on our porch but this is to take care of the needs of the window needs that we have and we have um windows in this big old building some of them need restoration some of them actually need Fallout repair so we're requesting money um we've met

with uh Mike who just was on the call who's our architect of record and we've met with him and they've come in and we've sat down and came up with a plan to get um some of these windows done it's it's important for this building to have these windows either replaceable or refurbished um the heating costs of this building is ridiculously crazy all the windows that we have and all the

needs that we have of these windows um that's why we've come plus the architecture details of this house has two um porthole windows The original owner of this house was this um salvaged thing very fitting that we had portable windows in his property so we're we're looking as part of this this request to have those returned to their their natural beauty and like they are also um it's staying glass however it's not

letted um the the framing is windows and then rapidly deteriorate so if I'm looking for some for some funds for this are any questions from the board for Dana

I I toured the property uh with Dana and um yeah the windows do need some tender loving care yes a lot of them a lot of them can be repaired in place uh but it does need tender love and care no question about it I'm sure that interference is coming from um um okay I don't have any um I'm sorry um is this for all windows on the property or are you doing in in portions we're

doing them in portions um we have the third floor the second floor and part of the first floor the third floor windows are the ones that are in the most um the first the third floor and second floor they're the ones that are in the most um dire need of of some repair especially the third floor that seems to be like everybody wants the first floor to look pretty because that's where our

galleries are so that gets all the loving care then the second floor where the majority of our art studios are that gets loving care and then on the third floor because nobody feels like climbing the three flights of stairs they sort of get get delayed so yeah they're the ones that are in most um mostly there will be other windows like we have some basement windows that ultimately will need some some care and

a few extra ones on the uh first floor but we we picked and shows the ones that really really needed um attention to help so we can keep these these costs of this this um heating down and keep you know tighten it up a little bit you know it's an old house creeks and she grounds like almost a ghetto and you know she just needs a little bit a little bit of a a little

care again sorry Dana I have a question so um you're having the windows done I you said this is the second project you had uh the porch CPA funds for the porch has that started have you um done the work there we have not yet started but we um we are due to get the drawings from Mike um sometime before the end of the month and I know we're sort of almost there I

know they've been trying to get those those done so we are looking to start that in the spring we've got people lined up we just need the drawings so we're we're waiting for for Mike and the detailed drawings that we need for the for that project because that's also a real um important piece for us we also have um wind up a plumber to help do the lead line stuff that's coming we have to get

the city here to do their piece and we have to get our piece um and and Coach bear here is is been taking the lead on that getting you know the subs sort of lined up but like I said we still need our finished drawings and and we're working on that um I know that they're getting that finished okay any other questions at all for Dana

um can I get emotion are we ready to make a decision on the letter okay get a motion please I make a motion to support the greater uh Association letter of support a motion by Joyce I get a second oh second devotion thank you all right so I have a motion on the second uh make it a roll call vote please for letter support for the Art Association projects yes yes thank you

well we're getting some awful events okay Rick Mancini yes we're getting a lot of noise here Elizabeth the block yes and Jason Bouchard and Rocky yes all right uh thank you Dana I will get that letter out to you this week thank you so much really appreciate it um and I currently invite any of you who haven't been into this This Old House to come and please come and check out you

know we're we're just a bunch of volunteers trying to do the best we can for this beautiful house and we're honored to have to have um have um you all support us truly honestly so come anytime we've got a new a new show going to open um beginning of March so I'll put a plug in for that come and see the art as it hangs in a beautiful old house it's free thank you so much

thank you Jason yes um are you related in any way the rock is from Fall River yep I'm married to them all right um I coached a um young man many years ago at Durfee Steve noraki that family yeah yeah okay thank you so much we appreciate it thank you okay have a good have a good night all right um thank you so next on uh list uh item number eight uh this is a

letter support for CPA funds for the Dr Isaac Fisk house 263 Pine Street uh requested by the Fall River preservation society and I believe we have Jim Sewell and Alex Silva both from the preservation Society here tonight hey folks can you hear me yes so I'm tidy bringing this uh a lot of requests forward but I'm here so I hope that um doesn't isn't held against me too much uh the preservation side is you can work

on the Dr Fisk house for a few years this is about like a fourth uh CPA uh project that we've uh done this hasn't been approved yet we're waiting uh uh for this year's um uh hearing um this particular project is to replace uh repair windows to replace the historic shutters into add storm windows um on the east and west facades of the house we completed the north facade which is the street facing last year and

those were completed actually we did that was a year and a half ago last fall we finished the roof and this year we're doing the East and West facades uh we're specifically targeted the East and West facades because they're uh they're viewable from the from the street to Public public way um and uh we do have trouble getting this work done from qualified contractors so you'll see that we

have kind of stuck with this one particular contractor when it comes to Windows uh there's another guy in Bedford who is very good but is just really tough to get window work done I do think that disguise rates are very very reasonable um we've been very comfortable with his competency and if you've driven by the fiscals you see how the front facade came out I I can't I think anyone would have trouble

finding any criticism with a a couple things I want to mention uh because the things that we're proud of at the preservation Society is that again that we're the CPA request that we have the effort projects that are always uh within the public View so we're not going to CPA for the rear facing Windows because the CPA products are supposed to be things that are viewable from the public way

uh also we're a 501c3 with non-profit but we do pay real estate taxes and we pay into the CPA fund and uh um and uh as I said before we do have all the CPA projects but they're all complete our last project was the roof and uh that's completed so we don't have any outstanding CPA projects all right excellent um are there any questions from the board no it's cut and dry

it you know we we know you're doing a good restoration on there it looks good I have uh I'll make a motion if there's no other questions that we send a letter of support all right we actually have so we have a motion by Rick and a second by Liz for a letter support uh for the preservation Society may get a roll call vote please Connie Saul I'm recusing myself I'm a

board member of the preservation Society Rick Mancini yeah I support that letter of support yes and Jason Bouchard and Rocky yes all right Jim I'll have that letter over to you this week as well thank you very much everybody thank you very much have a good night Jim um item number nine uh letter of support for CPA funds uh this is for the north burial ground Gates requested by the

city of Fall River cemeteries division um we have Chris uh piranha am I pronouncing your last name correctly purano yes okay perfect thank you for having me um we we are also tardy in receiving a letter of support from this commission and for that I apologize um but we have submitted an application for CPC funding to complete the vehicular and pedestrian gates at North burial ground on the North Main Street entrance

you might be familiar with the previous CPC funded project to restore the exterior of the Gatehouse that has been complete some of the funding for this project has been secured previously through other CPC funding applications um but as we started that work um the condition of the pillars and the ironwork gates um were significantly more deteriorated than first expected so to do it

correctly the first time we've had to go back to cpcs for some additional funding our request to them is for about a hundred and ten thousand dollars to finish that project um I will mention that since the completion of the Gatehouse we've seen a significant downturn in the amount of vandalism in the cemetery which is uh great uh both for uh the people who rest there and their families but also for

our operating budget from cleaning up some of the vandalism and additionally we have submitted an application to the state to help us plant and plant new trees and remove some of the existing trees that are in bad condition so we're making some concerted efforts to improve the aesthetic of that Cemetery that's both on the National Historic register great thank you um and what uh what is the timeline for the

work to commence on the gates do you estimate um so we would have to wait for the funding to be in place um but I think we can move pretty quickly um we have Civ attack already um lined up who was the previous architect and is continuing to be the architect on this project um and we've already received some pricing um and quotes from the company who did the initial portion of the project

one of the things we will have to tackle is it would have to go out for a public bid but we we would anticipate moving quickly are there any uh questions from the board at all four of us well we had a very as a representative of the CPC we had a very uh detailed presentation by Chris on the gate and the rehabbing of that both with photos and and good

identification so uh I'll make a motion uh to get a letter of support out to Chris and his crew I'll second that motion okay let's have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie for a lot of support for the north burial ground Gates um can I get a roll call vote please yes Elizabeth yes uh Joyce Rodricks I support that letter go away and Rick Mancini yes and Jason Bouchard

and Rocky yes uh Chris I'll send that letter I'll get that letter for you this week as well great thank you okay um let's see the next item uh we received an email from uh Michael LePage regarding uh historically and sensitive alterations to the Richard Borden Mill number two at 288 Plymouth Avenue uh let me just open that up I'll read it real quick um I don't think we have Mr LePage here to present

um he writes this was received on February 8th um dear Fall River historical commission have you seen the exterior remodel of the Richard Borden Mill number two 288 Plymouth Avenue how did this get approved this out of town Storage Company completely destroyed the historical look of the mill by attaching panels to the exterior of the mill can this be changed uh kind regards Mike LePage former Fall River historical

commission board member um so we did receive that um I did look into the um the listing it is actually not on the historic I'm sorry it is not on a national register uh of historic places it is listed on the uh cities register so that only really prevents a uh six or allows for a six-month demolition delay but there's no preservation easements or anything of that nature um

or anything of that nature I did uh reach back out to Mr LePage and indicated that um that they didn't receive any tax credits uh or CPA funds or anything of that nature um this was approved by the zoning board um and we don't have any purview over design over the design uh the most we could have done uh unfortunately was just to write a letter indicating our concerns over the exterior treatment

um I did write to Mr LePage indicating that I believe the work does look to be reversible um there's a section of the building where the panels are still they haven't installed all the panels and it looks like there's some sort of uh metal tracks or or so forth uh anchor to the side um but that's about it the windows were all filled in so are there any questions or concerns on that at all yeah

Mr chairman were you able to get any information from the planning board on how this project was supposed to be developed no I did not um I uh this was approved oh I want to say was it in 2021 I think was when the property transferred uh changed hands um and I'm not sure if the former chairperson had received any any advanced notice on that um but I did not I didn't did not reach

out to planning and it's unfortunate but like I said I believe the work does look reversible but um I mean how the property been on the national register they would have at least been able to get some sort of tax credits to at least rehabilitate the exterior of the building um and there's only I think two or three Mills in the city that have uh restrictions or preservation restrictions on them already um so

any other questions or concerns on that at all no I know somewhere along in the next meeting until we should sit down and and sort of look at these situations and and see um what kind of data we can gather and restructure so that some of these boards when they meet uh we could get a I guess a a little heads up that this is going to come about it's very difficult to be

reading the agenda of all of the boards in the city prior to their meeting so that we can be prepared so that should be something on the new business or put it on the agenda say for the next meeting or subsequent meetings so that we can try and discuss this further and develop some sort of a plan if we can okay so I I agree with you great um I don't know where all this interference

is coming from but uh there are other warehouses in fall river that have been uh developed and none of them look like this I mean there must be some criteria on business going into uh Mills for the function of warehousing and I think it I think Rick if you you know a lot about the city of Fall River I think it goes under the site Review Committee I think it's a site review which is a

subcommittee of the planning board all right I do think that even though it's not on the National Historic um listing um I do think that we should communicate it's still a historical Mill um and it stands out a great deal and I do think we need to communicate as you said Rick maybe at our next meeting um just take it up and discuss it a little bit more we do need to have the

zoning board be a little more sensitive to the historic nature of buildings when they make an approvals when they said about it they were going to do beautification to the exterior that should have been more detailed and they should have considered what their plan was other than that I don't know what else to say because I also saw that they don't they weren't on there and that they didn't get any tax credits so

no no this is this is good for discussion perhaps our next meeting we can something to look at it okay all right anything else on that before we move on okay um next item on number 11 we received an email from uh Reuben Oliveira regarding 528 High Street this is the Alfred Butterworth Alfred Butterworth house um this is regarding a roof reconstruction uh from a from the fire in April 2022 that destroyed the roof of

the structure um we've been thank you very much for joining us oh thank you for having me um yeah so attached her uh on that email or the plans um so basically if the design is staying the same um I know there were might have been some questions on the materials that were going to be used um so um the the house was asphalt shingles before um we we're not sure in which style of

shingles we're gonna go with um but the plan is to do go back with the asphalt shingles um um bit stained with the with the same flat roof um on on on the peak um and then I I don't know if there was any questions about like the deciding and windows and whatnot um no I so I did mention to the board um and just so this is recorded as well

um so because it's in the 40c um there is actually an uh interestingly enough there's an exclusion um it's marked as under exclusions 38-158 uh A7 uh the Reconstruction substantially similar in exterior design of a building structure or exterior architectural feature damaged or destroyed by Firestorm or other disaster provided such reconstruction has begun within one year uh thereafter and

carried forward with due diligence um so because the the frame the shape and scale and so forth of the roof is unchanged and you're keeping a flat roof that was there prior um you know we don't that's excluding from our purview regarding that um I know we did have some questions on the material um and uh I believe you did mention for that um you're keeping which would collaborates on the lower floor shingles

I believe on the Upper Floor as as it's perfectly yep yeah and it's there will be wood shingles and um and then clapboard on the first floor so no composite as far as that um as far as stream and Portables um I I do want to redo all the corables I know most of the house was missing or was already um and uh I guess so I found a it they're not wood they're they're expanded

um uh PVC um but it is paintable it actually needs to be painted um so it's just a cheap alternative than going with I mean to do the whole house but it's a very similar Trend in nature it's just the PVC correct yeah that's fine so so for the main corbels um they they are changing um maybe the size a little bit um because the ones that are that are there are nine by seven

um and they just I in my opinion they just don't look symmetrical to what the eve of the house looks like um so we were gonna go with eight by eight um but other than that they're keeping the same style yes okay all right fine and and the windows so Reuben was it so the windows we we looked into a couple of companies um uh we looked into Pella and we looked into Anderson

um so Anderson 400 makes a wood clad so it's um it's a it's a vinyl window but it's got the wood grain so it looks like it's wood um and we're gonna do two over two so on the strip down the middle uh and then black okay and and they're going to be the same size windows correct reducing the size of all so uh we're changing a couple I mean I'll have more details

once we get there I mean we're still kind of far from there um but on the on the right side of the house um or I mean on the left side if you're looking at house from the street on the left side there's a bay window there um that was done I mean I'm assuming somewhere in the 80s um we're looking to take down now and put the original two windows where on

that wall right um so the same the same windows that are on the first floor and the front of the house there used to be two on that side of on on that road so we're looking to put those two back nice that's good very nice um I had a question regard oh um in the what um in the front of the house there's that little stained glass window was that did that make it through the

fire no it's it's completely gone so we're we're um we're trying to find um an antique window um that will somewhat fit that that size um if we can't I found a company that does stained glass window um to mimic the the antique but obviously it's it's not antique so um that that's going back as a stain stained glass window okay um and uh do you know yet if you're able to so we

we know that the Gable in the front was Kept For Now um do you know yet if that's able to be restructured or um it it kind of depends once we get there um if even if we have to reconstruct it it's going to stay the same um I mean I I have the most confidence on on the guide that I'm using I mean it's a close friend of mine and um he builds multi-million dollar houses

and you know Cohasset and you know so he's he's capable of of reconstructing that he says it would be easier to reconstruct it than to save it just because um so there was no fire blocks obviously and um the structure of of that is is burnt so um well yeah I left it there for now and I guess we'll cross that bridge once we get there okay Yes Rick no I have a question so in

regards to the shingles the asphalt shingles are you going with asphalt architectural Styles shingles so they right I I haven't this we haven't looked into that yet um uh we'll we'll see I mean we're open to I mean we'll shop around and we'll see the look versus uh pricing of it and we'll we'll make that decision great um so I believe you received a permit to remove the roof correctly you see the

permit to rebuild the roof uh no so the permit is to go to reconstruct the home so with no changes to the roof I I can proceed forward but I I will before proceeding forward I I will um present them with the um what were the plans and make sure Glenn and you know they're okay with it okay and we can uh we can certainly let them know that you know you met with us and

regarding the the frame and the scale the shape of the roof and so forth and um you know it uh contingent on uh the roof material and so forth um and so and then once you have an idea for the windows too um you know we can uh actually would that fall under the same under the permit too as well for the windows it's for the whole yeah I believe so yes okay

I would make a a motion that we get a letter to Reuben to present uh to Glenn so that Glenn knows that we're behind this project and that it's being done and uh in a in a proper manner um before we make a motion as well um I know there was Reuben I know you're going You're Going Through Hell and Back with National Grid right now on the electric meter um currently it's in the basement uh

from what we understand um and so National Grid unfortunately is not I they're giving they're giving you headaches they're giving us headaches and trying to keep the um the meter in the basement uh from what I was told from I think was Aaron Roy from National Grid because that's an upgrade um you're upgrading the service to the house um their codes prohibit The Meters uh remaining in the basement

um so they need the meter to go on onto the exterior of the house um now I I believe we're going to try to have a conversation with National Grid to figure out if that's the final decision on that um if it needs to go onto the exterior of the house um is there an option that it can go onto the side if like as a worst case scenario for me yes on the driveway side

um the service goes right to the corner of the house like the front and the driveway side um if it has to go on that driveway side of the house yeah I'm okay with that um there's a meeting tomorrow Reuben at two o'clock you're all set all right it would it would be advantageous if you had your electrical contractor there also if he can if he can well that's one it's kind

of last minute and and also last time on on Friday at one o'clock no no one showed up so I mean I it's it's it's tough you know I I mean sure I can probably make time to be there um I I I'm not sure if I can have the contractor there all right I mean the contractor just needs to be told what to do I mean you'll put it in in the

basement he'll put it on the side he'll put it in the front lawn I mean I I you know he's really not a decision maker in in this case I I so I don't I don't see the need of them you know being there is the back of the house not an option at all is that well I would have to dig up the whole driveway so okay um so

um I because I believe yeah so Rick uh Rick you're meeting with National Grid at least regarding that but um and and the electrical inspector and Reuben and myself and whomever else Bonnie Jason all right we can't have more than whoever wants to show up yeah we cannot have more than

um so um and this is a site visit that we are accustomed to doing um all right so um we would have to agree as a board though if the you know if National Grid will not back down on this um if the meter has to go on the exterior of the house if it's fine going on to the driveway side I think tomorrow I will present the utility company doesn't make laws in

that instance and and all it is is the requirement that they call a requirement um uh and the decision making is truly up to the authority having or enforcing the code the ahj so I'm going to make some suggestions tomorrow uh and then the decision will be Reuben the electrical inspector and Aaron the three of them will the bits uh speak a little bit and make a decision right then and there uh that's that's not

going to be the historic Commission of the presentation we're just going to present uh as to an alternative I think Jim is looking yes we have a question from Jim I have to put some input I apologize we own a four family on June Street and we just upgraded the electric four months ago and they kept the meters in the cellar all it did was dug a hole in front of the house

and ran the new lines right into the foundation uh so I don't know if maybe someone's given bad information about not being able to keep the the meters in this basement or not but I mean if you read the requirements of the utility company they have the decision they can make the decision to leave the meters in the house yeah put them outside and uh I tried to get the representative from the media Department

there and I guess Aaron said he doesn't have I don't know the time or and make time to be there all right that stinks them they can make the decision they it is again the authority enforcing the code is the uh electrical inspector it's the building department and the building falls under the national electrical code um the meter itself is a device that's only there to help the utility company

monitor how much power is being used uh and what they do is they'll say look we're not going to put a meter in there if it's not outside they're holding your hostage in a sense uh and it's in that criteria that they recommend me to going outside but it also makes a statement in their paperwork that they can make the decision and allow it to go inside the building so whomever you are speaking to

was gracious enough to say okay you're right Jim let's tie it and put you know put the upgrade and let's leave the meters inside the building in this case we're going to find out if we can get that done tomorrow oh okay you know a natural grid do that like a couple of months ago right

we'll find out tomorrow regarding that um as far as everything else goes um regarding the uh restoration rebuilding of the house um do we have everyone in agreement with aside from the electric meter with everything else that Mr Oliveira is proposing yes yes I do I'm an agreement um can we get a motion for a letter from the historical commission I'll make that motion to get a letter

from the historical commission to assist in the Reconstruction of the property I'll second that motion all right I have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie I may get a roll call vote please on a soul yes who's ready to block yes Joyce your enemy Rick Mancini yes Joyce you're on mute did you hear me

oh Joyce with uh your arm you can you hear me well I mean Joyce joyous unmute your unmute your computer please

I'm muted oh there you go uh what is your vote for letter support for ribbon Oliveira yeah I was voting for that letter for Reuben all right and Jason Bouchard and a rookie yes uh Ruben thank you very much for your patience um we will I will get that link to you so that can go with the rest of your paperwork regarding the house and if you have any questions at all please let me know

all right we'll do um I'll I'll make um I'll make arrangements to be there tomorrow uh will you will you be there or will it just be Rick uh I will it'll be Rick and I at two o'clock all right I'll be there um and so tomorrow the decision will be made with where the meters is going if it turns out to be the side of the house it I

mean do we have to wait for another meeting and and run that by the board or will that be a final decision yeah we can make it yeah because that's the board is in agreement that if it needs to go into the driveway it can go into the driveway but we're going to work with National Grid too I mean I would rather have it in sight too so I mean you know worst case

scenario would you know would be outside so all right okay so all right sounds good I'll see you tomorrow good night um under new business we have none um old business item 12 uh an update on the open meeting while training and I believe everyone I got Connie's uh confirmation so I believe everyone is all caught up on open meeting law training so that is that um and um in fact I'll email Patrick Higgins uh

who had filed a complaint just let him know that we are all um updated um item number 13 this is an update on the design guidelines um so we received the final Set uh what we thought were the final Set uh there are a number of errors in it uh I'm not sure how that got past us um so um for the record it didn't get past me I found one

um but there's a there's a few um there's some edits since the board since we merged with the historic district commission there are some edits because now it's worded as if it was for the historic district commission so we just had to have that change and that's a big major change to the historical commission um and there's a number of other edits as well I know uh Jim and Alex with the

preservation Society have been working on that um do you have anything to add regarding that at all or all the credit goes to Alex I didn't do anything okay yeah it's nothing major just like some typos and uh you know just little grammar things that only an English major probably would pick up on um but the the titles for historic district commission and the as I uh I think emailed or texted the links to

just get a look at to make sure those are existing perpetuity and things like that um yeah so the um uh once we have all those edits we all will reach out to Dominique to have those corrected so we can get um a corrected version uh updated and then from there um it'll be a matter of just um I initially had sent in a request to have copies printed and then uh all the

edits came up and so I had that halted um but good to know I was not aware that there was a printing press of some sort uh at Government Center um so I think the initial order was for 75 I believe um I wasn't didn't want to push the envelope too much um so that's on hold right now once we have the final set then I'll send that over to Carrie

um and uh Chris perano who was here earlier um is awaiting the information so we can get that put onto the historical commission's website on the cities or the city's website uh so we'll have that um but the printed copies were to go to uh the homeowners in the 40c um all the pertinent departments at City Hall and as well as the board and then some extras so uh yeah hopefully we'll have that done

soonish you can get that taken care of um so that's that on the design guidelines any questions on that at all no um anything for open discussion we had a long meeting tonight nothing for open discussion all right all right um so the next meeting will be held on Tuesday March 21st 2023 we are allowed to go virtual until March 30th unless that is changed by the governor

um but as of now if we need to go over a tool again uh next month we have the ability to do that until the 30th um so the time is 7 26 may I get a motion to adjourn I'll motion to adjourn I'll second that much I'll second that motion thank you Joyce so I have a motion by Connie and a second by Joyce to adjourn I got a roll call vote please finally sold yes

Elizabeth to Black yes and Jason Bouchard and Iraqi yes thank you very much everyone and have a great night everyone have a good evening