The Fall River Historical Commission convened on Monday, March 23rd, at 6 PM. Chairman Richard Mancini presided over a meeting that included several key discussions and decisions. The commission unanimously approved the minutes from the February 17th meeting. They also reviewed a demolition request for a garage at 173 Keelley Street, which was not on any historical lists, and a permit was issued. Two requests for letters of support were addressed. Ed Hemsley, representing Mascan Capital for the Globe Mills development at 460 Global Street, received a unanimous vote for a continued quarterly letter of support for his project. Kristen Paula, representing Lizzie Borden LLC for the Lizzie Borden House at 230 2nd Street, sought a letter for preservation tax credits for deferred maintenance and restoration, including a roof replacement. The commission tabled this request unanimously, asking for more detailed documentation, drawings, and material samples for their next meeting on April 21st. Caroline Aubin, recusing herself as a commissioner, presented for the Fall River Historical Society, requesting an authorization letter for a building permit for Phase 2 of their roof restoration, which uses CPC funds. This request was unanimously approved. Ian Tomkins of 636 Rock Street presented a proposal to add three new windows to his historic home (built 1889): one large window to the second-floor rear balcony and two additional windows to the third-floor rear. After separate discussions and votes, both requests were unanimously approved, with the commission acknowledging the owner's commitment to historical preservation and the limited visibility of the third-floor additions from the street. In new business, Chairman Mancini reported positive progress on funding requests for evaluations of the waterfront cultural district and the Bank Street Armory, with a suggestion to increase the funding request. The commission also reviewed work at 183 Belmont Street, noting it was primarily interior and outside their jurisdiction, though the property had been red-flagged for starting work without a permit. A significant procedural vote was taken to allow the chair to continue speaking on behalf of the commission in an unofficial capacity at other meetings for matters not requiring a formal vote, which passed unanimously. Ryan Field of Group Leader discussed plans to restore 141 North Main Street (the old 5-cent bank), including replacing gutters with copper, and promised to keep the commission informed. Finally, the commission addressed additions to the significant structures list. Caroline Aubin provided an update on her ongoing research for 233-235 South Main Street. Reverend Adoranc Lipid and Santita Castellano successfully requested to add the Bethel AME Church at 146 Hanover Street, the oldest black church in Fall River, to the significant structures list, which was unanimously approved. A request to add the diner at 1680 Pleasant Street was also noted for future action. Updates were given on the Public Archaeology Laboratories project and the Anawan Fire Station #6 window certification, both progressing. The meeting adjourned at 7:04 PM.
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City Officials
Public / Other
Good evening everyone. I'm Richard Mancini, chairman of the historical commission for the city of Fall River.
0:08It is 6 pm on Monday, March the 23rd, and we are meeting at one government center on the first floor in the hearing room. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.
0:29Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived by those present, and are deemed acknowledgeable and permissible.
0:41Our recording clerk this evening is Felicia. She's sitting to my right. And this meeting is being televised and recorded by Craig of the Fall River Government TV.
0:52Present this evening are Commissioners Alicia Ashley Dunia, Commissioner and Cochair Jonathan Lemur, Commissioner Connie Soul, Commissioner Joyce Rodri, Commissioner Caroline Orin, and Commissioner Ryan Klene is not here at this moment. And I, Chair Rick Mancini, and our clerk, Felicia Parker.
1:18Felicia, have all petitions been properly advertised and all interested parties been notified in accordance with the rules and regulations of the historical commission for the city of Fall River?
1:29Yes.
1:30Okay. I hereby declare uh Monday on March 23rd the regularly scheduled meeting of the historical commission for the city of Fall River open for such business and shall resume before us.
1:44Okay. Good evening everyone. My goodness, look at the smiling faces we have here this evening. It's a pleasure.
1:51Thank you.
1:54Okay. Uh, can we have a roll call, please?
1:58Ashley Dunia, present.
1:59Jonathan Lima, present.
2:00Connie Soul, present.
2:02Joyce Rodri, present.
2:03Caroline Auben, present.
2:05And Rick Manceni, present.
2:08We have no citizens input as such. We have a purpose here. Okay.
2:16Uh, let's see. Next would be notice of intent to demolish. Uh, the building department requested that the historical commission review a garage located at 133.
2:29Minutes. We had approved minutes.
2:30The minutes. Oh, I went right over that.
2:34Moving too fast.
2:35Um, approve the February 17th meeting minutes.
2:38I'll second that motion.
2:39Can we have a roll call on that, please?
2:42Ashley, yes.
2:43John, yes. Yes, Joyce. Yes.
2:47Yes.
2:47And Rick Mancini. Yes. Sorry about that.
2:51Let's get right into the next item, which would get into notice of intent to demolish. Uh the building department requested that the historical commission review a garage located at 173 Keelley Street for demolition. The building was not listed on the historical significant list, nor was it listed on the national or mass historical register. So, the permit was issued.
3:19Um, all right, let's go right to letters of support this evening. Um, well, I see is Mr. Ed Hemsley there, please. Ed, are you available?
3:32Yeah.
3:33Yes, sir.
3:34Okay.
3:34Thanks for having me. You're welcome. Uh Ed, you're presenting tonight for the Globe Mills. Could you just sort of present to us?
3:44Correct. Yes. Good evening. My name is Ed Hamzandu. I'm representing Mascan Capital for development at Globe Milos located at 460 Global Street. Uh we have not done any physical work. We expect to start the construction later in summer as originally scheduled. We have not made any uh changes uh major changes to the drawings that you already have. We are advancing our construction documents
4:14which I believe I should be able to share more advanced drawings with you for the next meeting but we don't expect to see any changes major changes in terms of the the design.
4:28I pause you.
4:29Good. Any questions from the board?
4:34Okay, Ed is looking for a continued letter of support for his quarterly letter.
4:41Okay, make a motion to grant letter.
4:44I'll second that motion.
4:46Okay, do we have a roll call?
4:48Ashley, yes.
4:49Yes.
4:50Yes.
4:51Joyce, yes.
4:53Yes.
4:53And Rick Manceni. Yes. Okay, great. And I guess we have uh Kristen Pock. Is am I spelling or pronouncing that correct?
5:05Paula. Yes.
5:06Yes. Okay. Kristen.
5:10Hello. Yes. I'm um representing the Lizzie Bordon LLC. Um we are applying for a preservation tax credit. And I came across instructions to meet with you all to get an approval letter um for the work that we're planning on doing at the Lizzie Bordon House. It's at 2302nd Street. It's a Corki Row historic district and our main goal is just to preserve and maintain the historic structure in a way that maintains the
5:39historic characteristics and appearance like using similar exterior paint color and other characteristics that uh you see in the historic images of the building. I'm sure you all are probably familiar with the Lizzie Bordon story and the infamous murders um in the late 1800s. So the building was constructed in around 1845.
6:00Uh it it has a Greek revival style structure. Um and it largely maintains a lot of the internal layout as a chamber style layout. Um it's previously been recognized as an important contributing building in the district. I think when Corki Road District was first listed in the National um park services like historic places, I think um that's when Lizzie Bordon House was listed as a contributing um building there. So,
6:28we're just trying to do some deferred maintenance, restore some aspects of the building, um including roof replacement, um some exterior paint and woodworking that needs to be um complete as well as some interior work. We've got some wallpaper, flooring that needs replacement, HVAC work, things of that nature. But, uh do you have any questions for me?
6:56Questions from the board? Uh, regarding your roof, did you say repair or replacement?
7:02It'll be a complete replacement.
7:04And what are you using? Is it the same?
7:09A metal roof. Um, looking at historic images, looks like it was consistent with that kind of brings that gable roof style back together.
7:19All right.
7:21Yes. Uh, would you be presenting a sample of that roof material before it's being applied?
7:29Um, I'll have to check on that. You want a sampling of roof material? Um, I can present pictures and things. I don't know. I wasn't sure what all needed to be presented here tonight. Um, but I can get the board anything that you have questions on.
7:46Okay.
7:47And you said something uh about you're looking for a letter of support for some sort of tax incentive.
7:56Yeah, I came across a checklist from Massachusetts that said that it needed a CLG approval letter. Um that's why I reached out to you all and was scheduled for this hearing tonight. I don't know if it's for the state tax or the federal tax credit. Um but it was part of that process that I came ac I came across you all.
8:16Okay. The the U CLG that's certified uh legal government which funds research uh if you're having a study done uh things of that nature and uh Massachusetts Yeah. Mass and and the uh the federal government support that. And yes, we're one of only 33 certified legal government affiliations in in the uh state. Uh but we'll a letter of support can be supplied. Um but that is tax credits by the federal government or by
8:56the state are different than the CLG.
9:00Okay.
9:01Okay. But you can work that out or we can talk about that later and get more clarification for you.
9:09Okay, that sounds good.
9:11Any any other questions?
9:13No, I think I think the the question at hand is really what the scope of the work is. Uh certainly with regard to the roof, you mentioned woodwork. Um, not sure if you're doing anything with windows, but everything's got to remain true to the historical character of the home and and should be replaced in kind.
9:33Uh, generally, we like to see uh what the materials are going to look like and have some sort of drawings or information about what we're supporting before issuing I think support.
9:47I'm sure the existing roof is asphalt shingles.
9:50Yeah, I think so. Um, so switching from a traditional to the metal roof, um, which bears some questions there.
10:00Okay.
10:01Like if that's what it originally was before it became asphalt, then it would be um, it would be okay if you were going to go put a tin.
10:15Yeah. I wasn't able to find much online as to what the original was. It said that metal roofing was popular during the time. Um, so it seemed like it would be consistent with the historic period.
10:32Yeah. The the again the roof is is kind of an important issue. Uh, and again the materials that are going to be used. Uh, the original request was for a tax a letter of support for tax credits. uh this is a little more uh than a letter of support for tax credits where you're replacing the roof at this point. So uh the next step for you would be to get us
10:59copies uh or actually samples or you could send photos but actual samples uh you know would bode better for us to make a determination on the materials.
11:12Okay, I can work on that. Maybe the the handbook that we hope to the design guides. Yeah.
11:20Okay.
11:21You could get a a copy of the design um guidelines that we have online and you can download it or you can just like look through it and it it um it can guide you in the right direction as well.
11:35Okay, great.
11:36And that's right on our our web page under Fall River City of Fall River. you can get right into the historical commission website and you can download that booklet.
11:50Okay, any other questions?
11:56None. Okay. Well, we can take a vote on that letter of support this evening uh for, you know, to to future your your endeavor on getting the tax credits because those are always available. Um, so does someone want to make a motion for a letter of support for tax credit letter?
12:18Tax credit letter for very similar to what Ed has. She it looks like originally the request was looking for a letter of support so that the they could apply for tax credits for the work that's being done. I guess to get get some funding back.
12:40Is that even something that has anything started?
12:43Well, it it does with letter of support.
12:46That's what we just did with Ed, but we usually know what the scope is before we give the letter of support.
12:52Mhm.
12:53And we don't really know what the scope is. We we don't have any designs or given any idea. I mean I I I think you've given us general ideas of what you plan to do but there isn't any um specific like uh specifics and the scope we need like the scope of work before we okay approve anything you take and I can email that to you Rick. I think I have your email address. I was
13:20just going through the um like part one and part two of the National Park Service. Um right. I mean that's the idea. We really want to be supportive. We're really thrilled with what you're doing and you know and it's just that we have a a process to follow. So it's not that we're being Yeah.
13:41difficult. We just how can we take a vote?
13:44Yeah, I I see your point. Well well taken. Uh the uh again the original intent what the emails were to get a letter of support for some tax credits that you were going for. Uh is that still in your Bailey work?
14:03Yeah. And it's just we have a couple properties around the nation. Um and every state is a little bit different.
14:11And so when I was going um to fill out all of the paperwork for Massachusetts, um I just came across your commission and it said needing a letter of of approval. So um that's when I reached out to you all, but I can definitely get some additional information to you and send that over to you, Rick, if that would work out. And I think you guys you meet monthly, right?
14:34We do.
14:35Why don't we uh just sort of table this for this evening and if you could send uh documentation, you could go through the guidelines and then send through uh as much information as possible, drawings, photos, uh give us a a better understanding of what you're going to be doing with the building. And if you could send that to Felicia, that would be f pa kr at fall rivermass.gov.
15:13Okay.
15:14And send all the correspondence to Felicia and she will uh get that to us.
15:21Okay. Great. Sounds great.
15:22So, we'll just table things for this evening.
15:26Okay.
15:27Does that meet with the Does that meet with the board's approval?
15:30Yes. So, let's take a vote.
15:33Okay. We set with that.
15:35I'm very very Okay.
15:37I'll make a motion to table this for tonight and then with additional information, we'll get you on the next um the next meeting.
15:45I'll second that.
15:46Okay.
15:47Okay. Roll call.
15:49Ashley, yes.
15:51John, yes.
15:52Connie, yes.
15:53Joyce, yes. Caroline, yes.
15:55Rick Mancini, yes. And the next meeting is April the 21st, and we'll you're still out in the Florida area, so we again will get you the Zoom uh information prior to the meeting.
16:12That's great.
16:13Sounds great.
16:14Yeah. And no, it's it's a wonderful project and you know, we're we're 100% behind you. We want to help you as much as possible. So, thank you for Thank you both.
16:24Yeah. Thank you for keeping us with us.
16:28All right. Thank you so much.
16:29You're welcome.
16:33Okay.
16:35Uh I guess Caroline um I'm going to recuse myself um from the voting for this so that I can present.
16:43Wonderful.
16:57Um Caroline Aubin. I'm here on behalf of the Fall River Historical Society um asking for a letter of support um for the Department of Inspectional Services for the phase two of our roof restoration project.
17:12Okay. Is is the board familiar with the historical society and what's going on there?
17:18Yeah.
17:19Okay. You're familiar with that?
17:21Yeah, I do. I have a Can I ask question?
17:24Absolutely. Yes.
17:26What does inspectional services actually do before you do a renovation? What is the process?
17:35That's the building department. They they have to issue a permit.
17:40So, they're going to go to the historical society and inspect the work before the work is actually done.
17:47Yes, they'll issue a permit so that we can legally start the work on our next section.
17:55Why would you need a letter of support for that? Isn't that what they do anyway?
18:00No, it it's not a letter of support.
18:01It's a it's a release in order for them to pull a permit because it has CPC money. It has to follow all of the uh significant structures list we as the historical.
18:15So it's not really a letter of support.
18:19It's well it's a it's a letter letter authorizing. Yes, we're authorizing that the building permit be issued for the contractor to get his building permit and perform the task.
18:33It's a letter of support essentially in favor of saying yes um you've met all the standards, the design guidelines, we support you in this endeavor and then they need that in order to get authority from the building permit uh the building department to release a building permit to them. They essentially it's a building permit, the building department doing their due diligence, making sure
18:55they've come through us first to say, "Okay, yeah, you're good. You're using the right material."
19:04Yeah, I'm all set. I just don't, you know, I want to get clarification because it seems that's what the inspectional services would do anyway. I mean, it's part of every project that goes on here. Yeah, Joyce, I can probably explain it so that you understand it. It's just like a 40C building, but they've received CPC funding.
19:26So, they need I see.
19:28Yes, they need they need that letter of authorization.
19:32The issue with CPC funding as opposed to any work that they inspect.
19:39Correct.
19:40Yes.
19:41Okay.
19:42Got it.
19:43Okay.
19:43I'd like to make a motion to provide a letter of support. I will second them.
19:48Okay, we'll take a roll call, please.
19:50Ashley, yes.
19:51John, yes.
19:52Connie, yes.
19:54Joyce, yes.
19:55And Rick Mancini, yes.
19:57Thank you.
19:57Okay, thank you.
20:03Okay, I guess the next gentleman would be Ian Tomkin.
20:11Tomkins and Tomkins.
20:14Hi.
20:16Hi.
20:16How you doing, Ian?
20:17Uh, we're in the middle of our uh Ian, could you just give us your name and address for the records, please?
20:23Uh, this I'm Ian Tomkins. Uh, we live at 636 Rock Street in Fall River. Um, and what else?
20:33That should do it. Now you can present.
20:35It's just to get you on the record for the the viewing audience and legal responsibilities here. Uh, so I brought a few images in case anybody didn't have them. Uh, and you can pass around. But, um, where, uh, the at the at the rear at the west side of, uh, 636 Rock Street, we are proposing to add some additional windows.
20:57Um, it's kind of two separate issues.
21:00One is a large window that we want to add on the second floor rear balcony.
21:07Um, for that window, um, there's two pre-existing large windows to the on the left and right side of the balcony, and we wanted to add one additional large center window to it. Uh, the balcony at some point in history was an open porch.
21:24Um, so the window we're adding there, uh, kind of brings it back to its original character where it's more open but still can remain enclosed for the usage it's had over the past several half a century at least.
21:38Uh I I assume the second owner based on how much uh the orientation we pulled up from the floor. I actually think at some point it might have just been two separate balconies and then the middle was kind of bridged across later when they tore down the chimney. Um that's that's kind of what we've figured out roughly. But um either way, our goal we would really like to be able to put that
22:03center window in the uh on the second floor balcony. The second issue we had is on the third floor, uh we would like to put in two additional windows um to the third floor rear of the house. Um we're we would like to, but it's not like uh the end of the world if we don't. That used to probably be like maid's quarters up there. Um so historically uh there wouldn't be that many windows in
22:32the maid's quarter. They're short small windows, but uh you know modernizing the usage of the home, we wanted to add a few extra windows, bring in some more light given that they are low small windows up there. It would be a nice it would be a nice added effect to the third floor.
22:47Okay.
22:48Especially with the sunset over the the view of the Fall River Bay, it' be a really it would make that living space a little better.
22:57Okay. would you go into uh explaining the research that you've done uh because your intent I believe is to rehab most of these windows rather than just straight replacement.
23:09That is correct.
23:10Would you go into details just give us the board a better update?
23:14So, uh I mean I was looking at another project which read me down the rabbit hole of reading about the National Park Services application. I'm not going to do that for Rock Street. Uh I don't think it would qualify. It's not a commercial project or anything. Um uh but for most of the windows in the home, we plan to stick to the National Park Services preference for repair um rather than replace
23:39um for everything that we're not replacing. Uh well, some some of the some some parts some windows have already been replaced with vinyl replacements. We actually want to try to bring those back and restore them to the original. So, we're e we're either going to repair things as they are primarily.
23:56Um, a lot of the single pane windows we would we're going to be presenting this later. Right now, we're kind of more focused on just getting it so that we can figure out if we can add our extra window uh where we got to cut the hole in. We'd like to get our walls and insulation back up. But um essentially we're we're looking at trying to keep the thin profile of the
24:22single pane. We're looking into vacuum glass products which are only like 38 inches thick. And we'll be I'll bring a sample in when I order a couple of those, but that's another rabbit hole.
24:34Um but I basically the point is we're trying to repair things as possible.
24:41We're going to add some weather proofing to the existing single pane windows for now. We'll go back and see if we want to upgrade the panes, but we're not going to actually replace any of those windows that are still original. The vinyl replacements we and the new windows, um, we plan to use, um, Parrot windows, um, which and they intend to make them pretty much exactly like the original
25:03windows or as close as you can get with a a new window. They're very good at making extremely custom windows. they're going to be very expensive, but um but we'll probably we'll we'll they'll make shop diagrams and we'll be able to present on that separately as to what exact window we're going to put in.
25:22But for for now, we just want to make sure we can put a window in these places so that we can frame around them and then block it off until we eventually in the future have the actual windows to ask for permission to put in.
25:35I hope that was helpful. Ian, this photo here with the three windows is this this is existing.
25:43No, that was that was an enhanced version of Okay, that is not so the That's what you want it to be.
25:49That's what we want it to be. The tape on the windows is because we're jacking up the back of the house.
25:54It's not doing anything. We're actually going to take them out then jack it up and then they they did that and then I was like tape is not going to prevent it's best.
26:04That is what it is at the moment. Yes.
26:06And this is that is what it is currently.
26:10This is um on the third floor.
26:12That is the third floor where you want bigger windows.
26:15We wanted to add two additional windows.
26:16Okay.
26:18So they would all be there would be four equivalent windows.
26:23Oh, okay. Yeah.
26:25We originally were thinking about putting them up higher, but then as you can see on the photo from the rear of the house, they're actually limited by the the brow or whatever. So, but it would be nice to we want that's that room we intend to make into like an extra third floor kitchen for our children and stuff uh when they grow older. So, that um it's going to it'll
26:46give a really nice view of the Fall River waterfront which is becoming nicer again.
26:53Yes.
26:57Good.
27:00Any other questions from the board?
27:05Are they operational windows or no?
27:08Uh, most of them are operational. Oh, you mean the um Are they open?
27:11The two the the large ones on the second floor.
27:14Yeah, those were operational.
27:19We intend to I intend to restore their function. They're hopper windows, so they they go in.
27:25Uh I'd like to make them like that again. Um, they're kind of painted shut and sealed shut. Uh, but they do have an existing chain so that you could pull them in. There's like a handles on the top. Um, and they have that nice little cute little arch on the edges. Um, but they are not currently functional. I don't think they've been functional a long time. Actually, if we tried to open
27:49it, they'd probably fall apart. The one of the They need some significant repairs. Those are probably the worst condition windows.
27:58Tender loving care required here. Yes.
28:04Okay.
28:06So, we have a a multi- faceted multi-art project going on here. So, today approval for the third window, right?
28:15For the third window. Yes.
28:18And then and the two additional two additional on the third.
28:21Yeah. separate issues if if if we if I don't know if it matters.
28:28Okay. Well, we can take it as two separate issues if if or I I think we should take it as one for now and then when he comes back with whatever windows they're going to use.
28:38All right.
28:40So, we're going to vote on the third window and the windows on the upper floor changing. Okay. So, it's it's one package. Okay.
28:53I make a motion to approve the um the a total of three additional windows. One being on the balcony and then the two smaller windows on the um third floor there.
29:07Okay. Do we have a second?
29:18How what is the visibility of this from the street?
29:20From this front of the house or from the back of the house from the street from from any street public streetway.
29:27I believe it's probably visible.
29:33I drove by there again this evening just to take a check before I arrived and it is visible um from it's there's property in his backyard directly behind the home there's a barn so you you can't really see from June Street but you can see it from June Street on the south side of the property looking down you can see this uh property. You can see the back.
30:19I think we're having the same hot burn about this. It's um it's not that we don't like your your enthusiasm about at least me. I can speak for myself. is that it's changing it from the original um historical the original.
30:39That's understandable.
30:40That's why I figured the um however you are telling us this used to be was this the covered porch? I mean was this the open porch or was the open porch underneath it?
30:51The second floor used to be an open porch at some point in history.
30:56That little push out Mhm.
30:58Yeah. was a porch.
31:00Yeah. And I'm I'm looking at this photo and it I actually use your expertise here.
31:08Does it look like it was framed for a third window there at one time?
31:12Yes.
31:12Yeah. Certainly looks that way from here.
31:14It does. And if you look at the rendition, it flows better than just the two.
31:20Yes.
31:20Yes.
31:21So I I I got it. But I I can that's why we're asking the question.
31:28Was there um on the third floor, was there a wall originally separating this into two rooms?
31:34Define originally.
31:38Good point. Um the ceiling.
31:40Yeah.
31:41Originally there was not a wall separating them. You can actually see in the ceiling there was a ceiling above the ceiling, right?
31:48So the first owner did not have a wall separating them. The second owner added um a wall in there.
31:57I don't know when that would have been added.
32:00I think how I think the Browns owned it for at least like 30 years or something.
32:05So probably would have been in the 20s or 30s maybe.
32:10What year was it built? I'm sorry.
32:12What year?
32:13Uh 1889.
32:141889.
32:17That's just my inference from the material. What materials were we've kind of torn apart some walls. So originally it was built with L and plaster.
32:25Yeah.
32:26So anything where we tore apart that was made with this metal mesh material was we assume from the second owner. I I severely doubt that the first owners built it and then immediately built a second layer over everything.
32:38So my my belief is that probably the second owners when they acquired it sometime during their ownership redid everything with this L um this metal L and replplastered everything over substantially thicker. I think they added like a second maid's quarters basically.
32:56Mhm.
32:57Um and so that's when they added that extra wall. It actually looked like it had been through several the floors look like they've been through multiple separate times of renovation because there's like spots where there's like a square and then there's spots where like the square was moved and covered over.
33:13Like there's different patches of what the floor was. And this back porch there looked like we we dug through like four different layers of wood in different orientations.
33:23There's like it looked like it had bumped out and then gone back in and then they added an extra strip and then they added more strips and did something else. It was uh the floor was like this thick.
33:37It was a lot of layers of floor.
33:40Mhm. You just kept adding on Yeah. to to change it.
33:44So, it's a nightmare.
33:46It's It's not bad. It's nice.
33:49It was interesting to see as it came apart.
33:55Well, there's a motion that was made.
33:59If you want to do them separately, if that makes everybody feel better, feel free.
34:05Okay.
34:07Yeah, I think that that would be a wise idea because, you know, it sounds reasonable to suggest that this is already altered in a significant fashion from its original um form. Now, how long it's been like this, I mean, technically, I guess this could also be historical relevant if it was altered that long ago, right? But I would say based on the pictures of the wall and, you know, your research of
34:39this being a porch, I I could see supporting the the third window here and and I I probably would be more inclined to do that than than the third floor.
34:51Okay. So, could we have a motion on the second level placing?
34:58I would draw my motion.
34:59You do? Okay.
35:02So, could we have I would make a motion to approve the addition of a third window to the second floor that would match in kind to the other two adjacent large windows.
35:12Okay.
35:14We have a second. All right. Do we have a roll call?
35:17Ashley? Yes.
35:19Jonathan? Yes.
35:20Connie. Yes.
35:21Joyce. Yes.
35:22Caroline. Yes.
35:23And Rick Mancini. Yes.
35:26Okay. Now, the second request.
35:29Is the other request still valid at this moment or did you want to research this a little more?
35:35Well, I mean, it's pretty clearly it was a maid's quarters. It would definitely be appended history to a more modernized use. Um, I mean, it's definitely not a historic use of that room. This would It looks like the some of the framing is new. Is that some of the framing new?
35:54The Oh, so the the the strips added everywhere. We've added strips everywhere because we're building it out so that we can meet 6 in insulation code.
36:02I see.
36:04So the the studs those are those new studs. They're actually only it's only 2 in added over all the existing studs which is sort of assisted in a sense.
36:13Yeah.
36:17But they're only on top of where the existing studs were.
36:20I see what you did.
36:22So you were building out actually to leave just the two windows originally.
36:27Yes.
36:28Yes. Okay.
36:29And then then my carpenter said, "Well, what if we add another window here?" And I was like, "You know what? That's not a bad idea. It does have a be he was he's in there working all the time, so he saw absolutely beautiful view out there and said, you know, we could add another window." And I said, "I'm going to have to bring that to the historical commission. I'm not 100% on that one."
36:44Um, we like the idea because we do plan on having this be a nice, you know, kitchen with a dining table. Having a view out of it would be beautiful. Um, but it's definitely um, you know, I like I like adding to history. This house is full of windows. If they were actually using the third floor for themselves, they probably would have added more windows to the house. Uh, but at the historically, this was probably just
37:12servants quarters, so they just did Sure.
37:14They just did what they had to do or just did the minimum essentially.
37:21Okay.
37:26And you wanted to do the second floor first anyways, right? Is that plan is we Well, we either way we're going to close up and insulate the third floor, but if we had to go back to that as a separate issue at a later point in time, wouldn't be the end of the worlds. It's just going to be covered in I don't know if we're going to drywall it or if we're going to custom plaster
37:43it. I'm not sure yet.
37:46We like the idea of going back to plaster.
37:50How long does the letter of approval last?
37:53A year.
37:54Yeah. So, if it's not within a year, you just need to come back anyhow for the third floor.
38:00Well, we would put in if we got approval, what we would do is we would put in a block window. like we would just we would frame it out, put in insulation in place, and then we would be able then we would put in a window once we had the window to come in for approval. We're waiting on a lot of different things.
38:20Yeah, custom windows, they can't be designed super fast either. The the key is if we are uh prone to go in that direction then it would be best to do it now rather than waiting. So what's now? Just the red seed single shingles.
38:39Uh yes.
38:41Yeah, it's in the just the red seed shingles.
38:49But there's a lot more uh construction and work to be done if you go back at a later date. So we have to make make a decision at this point.
39:05Now as a I guess a point of order one anything else this is just approval to do the project. This is not solit solicitation of a letter of support for any kind of funding.
39:16No, no funding.
39:18No funding on this property.
39:20Okay.
39:21No, I don't think uh the what we're doing to this property I don't think would qualify for National Park Services because a lot owner occupied is not subject to tax credits. Yeah.
39:34Unfortunately.
39:35I didn't think so. Yeah. Even if we were to try to reframe it as a commercial use, I don't think I don't think ultimately our application would be supported by National Park Services.
39:47Not with you residing there. No.
39:54Okay. So, what is the uh choice of the board?
40:04Do we have a motion to support the four windows? You mean like adding two windows on the third floor, right?
40:21We I'm going to be honest. We may not even put those two windows even if you approve it.
40:25All right. Well, then we do we have a motion if we have no motion to support.
40:29Do we have a motion to deny the request for the four windows at this time with the option of coming back at a future date?
40:38It also bothers me a great deal to deny like someone like you who's enthusiastic, who's saving this amazing building. Um, so that hurts too.
40:51So hence our like if it makes you feel any better house and it's a great project and and I love the fact that someone like you is coming in and breathing life into this house that a family will grow up in this house that it's it's really a tremendous effort. The question is uh do basically do you bend the rules because the rules state that if it's visible from the street it should maintain the original
41:17character and do you bend the rules because you feel really good about a story.
41:22That's that's what it comes down to for me.
41:25I'm I'm leaning towards just approval because it's the rear of the house and not seen from the main street. So it's seen from June Street. Um, our sunsets are amazing.
41:39Okay.
41:40Yeah, that is true.
41:43Um, and I'm sure that was made quarters.
41:47Yeah, sure.
41:50Yeah, we wouldn't be heartbroken if it wasn't approved. My wife actually wants to put a fireplace there. We've been kind of back and forth, but I figured we were already coming for the second floor window. We'd talk about this at the same time. So if it gets denied, we just we just don't have to spend an extra $7,000 on window in that case, right?
42:10We don't know her, but you know, we like her.
42:17Okay.
42:20I guess I'm leaning towards making a motion to approve um based on that. It's the rear of the home.
42:30That's where I'm going.
42:33So, I'll make a motion to approve the two extra windows on the third floor.
42:37Do we have a second on that motion?
42:41I'll second that motion.
42:42All right. Do we have a roll call?
42:44Ashley, yes.
42:46Jonathan, yes.
42:47Connie, yes.
42:49Joyce, yes.
42:50Caroline, yes.
42:51And Rick, yes. And I will say now once we've taken the vote, it's been approved that there there are some trees in there. So that this in the winter you can see through, but it's very difficult to see. This is this is very clear when you're on the south side of that huge custom home that's behind you. But you cannot see the back of the house with probably 2/3 or 3/4 of the property from
43:21June Street. it's only that one one spot. So unlike yourself, you you're trying to do a remarkable job. You're putting a lot of money and a lot of effort into this. Uh your thought process is really good for retaining historic uh structures. So u you know All right. Thank you very much.
43:44Okay. So you're all set.
43:46Within a week or so, Ian, you should get these letters of approval. Okay.
43:50And support.
43:51Excellent. Thank you, Richard.
43:52You're welcome. Thank you, board commission.
43:58Okay. Wow. All right. Let's move along.
44:03Um All right. So, we're under new business here. Uh let's see.
44:14Just looking significant. Going to have to wait just a few moments. Ladies and gentlemen, uh I just want to bring up on new business. Uh as you know, under the last meeting, we had supplied some letters for the cultural water dis uh the waterfront cultural district and for the Bank Street Armory looking for funding to do uh evaluations of the property. Well, both of those were uh
44:41tentatively approved for further review which started on the 13th of this month.
44:46to review that. But Paul Holtz who's involved with the his mass historical commission uh gave us gave the commission a call and asked that we put in an application to what's called an R an MRF application and uh and then informed us that we should add $10,000 to our request which is a good sign. So, uh, thank you to the preservation society, Alex Silver, who happens to be an English
45:24major and does a great job of writing.
45:26He did all of the writing and and uh got that all set for us.
45:31We took care of the rest and and the mayor signed it and uh we got it sent in. We had to have it in by the 13th and we had a week and a half to get it done and in. It was a lot of work. So, that was submitted. Um, so that's a good thing. So, we're hopefully going to get those two requests.
45:53Uh, the building department, this is just this is under any questions on that at all? Okay. Uh, item number three is new business and that was the building department requested that the historical commission review some property at 183 Belmont Street. Uh that property is listed on the significant structures.
46:15It's also listed on the Mass and the National Historic Register. However, uh the work that's being done on this particular piece of property is uh unfortunately a couple of windows might get changed, but it's a lot of interior work at this point. So, uh we have no jurisdiction over that. So the building permit was issued or going to be issued.
46:42That particular property was red flagged because they proceeded with no building permit. So it was uh shut down.
46:51Um number four, uh let's see.
46:56uh previously and and this has been sort of longstanding and I just thought I'd bring it up as a as an item uh because it's been cropping up more and more lately and I've got a couple of meetings particularly with the CPC uh where the board has to speak as the historical commission. So, we're at a CPC meeting and it's okay because I represent the C the historical commission. It's can you give us a
47:29comment? What is the historical commission's opinion on this? So, well, historically the historical commission always or or the chair has always been allowed to do this. Uh, and I believe we took a vote on this many many years ago to allow that to transpire. And all I want to do is because we have so many new members here, uh I just thought it would be wise to just take a new vote
47:55and see if it's still applicable. Uh and there are a couple of meetings coming up. There's actually one tomorrow with the water department uh regarding some an area where I'm going to have to speak as historical commission. Uh, and we've got another one coming up with the city councilors. And so it it happens on a very frequent basis. Uh, I get a lot of calls during the during the course of
48:24a month from the building department where the historical commission has to make a decision on properties. Um, as as long as it's not involving a decision that requires a vote. If it's a decision that requires a vote, I'm not going to make a comment on that. But, uh, so I'm just looking now for a vote, uh, in favor of allowing the chair to continue what's been historically, uh, the process.
48:57Did I make sense with that?
48:59Yes.
49:00Any questions?
49:02Could we have a vote? Could we have a motion made and then a vote?
49:08I'll make a motion. Trying to think of how to word this. You know, a motion to allow the chair of the historical commission to speak in an unofficial capacity representing the historical commission at other meetings aside from the historical commission meetings.
49:27Non like when it's and to give approval of non Yeah. letters give approvals for non-applicability letters when not a direct historical commission mandate.
49:45All right.
49:46You know, like a garage.
49:48Yeah.
49:49Things that don't require us to vote.
49:51Correct.
49:53I'd be comfortable you represent.
49:54Can you repeat it?
49:55Thank you.
49:57Can I get that paper solution?
50:01Yeah, I will second that motion.
50:03Okay. Roll call.
50:04Ashley, yes. Jonathan, yes.
50:06Connie, yes.
50:08Joyce, yes.
50:08Caroline, yes.
50:10And as a voting member, yes. All right.
50:13Thank you so much for the confidence. Um uh let's go back here to item number five. Uh accompany Ryan Field. Uh they're it's called group leader and they're actually looking to restore or rehab to an extent 141 North Main Street. That was the old 5-cent uh bank.
50:35I guess the red bank had it for a while there. Uh and they're looking at redoing the roof. Uh and uh actually was talking about replacing the wood gutters because they're not large enough to accommodate the water, the amount of water. And they're actually he was actually talking of going back with copper gutters. Uh so they're going to keep us in the loop once they get their design. uh
51:03completed. They'll be down here for uhformational purposes. At this point, it's in the uh it's in that uh what they call a mono district. I mean, Main Street, North Main Street. Uh and uh it's in that district, but there's no real bearing on the building out where we are locked in to make making major decisions. But this individual and his company is very historically minded and they want to maintain the the uh
51:38historic value of the building. So that's uh any questions on that? I was very impressed by the way with this gentleman. He was very knowledgeable and and forthcoming with what they want to do with the building. So, okay, we've had no other correspondence.
51:59We do now have significant structures list. We have three items here. Uh, I guess Caroline, could you just give us an update on the 233 235 South Main Street?
52:12Um, I'm still in the process of doing some further research on it. Um, and unfortunately parts of the city were not previously researched on in in um several decades ago when a lot of the historic structures were done. Um, and so finding out architectural information or historic information on South Main Street is is a little more difficult.
52:40Okay.
52:40So I'm still kind of trying to get through that.
52:44Great. Thank you.
52:46And Reverend, you want to present? You are here to You've been patiently awaiting.
52:52This is uh 146 Handover Street. It's the Bethl AM Church.
53:06Good evening. Um thank you for the opportunity to uh present. My name is uh Reverend Adoranc. Lipid. I am the pastor of Bethl AM Church and um we're here to request permission to be put on the historical structures list uh with the city of Fall River. Uh by way of background, the church was started in 1881 on Maple Street.
53:36Um, it then changed its name to the current name Bethl AM Church of Fall River and moved to 146 Hanover Street.
53:46And the building was built in 1917.
53:50Um, it's still etched on the cornerstone of the church. And so in terms of the historical significance of the church, um it is the oldest black church in the city of Fall River and numerous generations have got passed through the church. I have only been the pastor for a little over two years at the current structure, but um we believe that given its age um given that it it's part of a
54:27church whose mission is not just church but social justice.
54:35And so part of that storied history that takes place in that building um we would request to be uh put on that structured the historical structured list. And with me is uh Santita Castellano who will just give a little bit more detail um about the church.
54:58Well, good evening everybody. My name is Santita Castellano. Um I am one a member of the Bethl AM church here in Fall River. My family is from a generations of um AM membership with this with the AM church but recently with this church within the past I want to say 10 years we've been here in Fall River. Um we're I am also the director of Bristol Black Collective. So, I come to you as a
55:27member of the church, but also someone who's looking to preserve the black history in Fall River. Um, and we have several of our members here who are very much connected to the church, trustees, trustees as well as we have um the stewards in the church here uh in the in the audience here. We have long-standing memberships whose family has been long dedicated to this church.
55:56Um, and we again seeking your approval because it has been a significant pillar of the community. Um, uh, Robert Adams had supported the church um and made sure that the church was funded here in the city. So we want to make sure that we continue to support this particular community so that this church can support the community.
56:19I love this request.
56:26This should have been done years ago.
56:29Amen to that.
56:32That's wonderful. Okay.
56:35Well, I definitely make a motion to um approve um to be part of the significant structures list.
56:45I second the motion.
56:47Okay, we have a first and a second.
56:49Let's have a roll call.
56:50Ashley, yes.
56:51Jonathan, yes.
56:52Connie, yes.
56:54Joyce, yes.
56:55Caroline, yes.
56:56And Rick Mancini, yes. What has just happened is that you've been put on the significant structures list. It's a matter now of just filling it out because the historical commission has the authority.
57:10But it looks like the historical commission is able to put That's That's where you're going. Right here.
57:23Right there.
57:28Okay. So, you have been officially put on the historical significant list. It's going to take a little bit of time now to fill out the paperwork, but we just voted it in.
57:40This is uh historically uh significant for us.
57:46Thank you. Um, if I may be so bold as to what's the time frame with the paperwork that we're looking at? Uh well, we're going to uh I'm going to ask Felicia to work with Caroline. Caroline spearheads our significant structures list and she's in the process now of actually doing some updating. Felicia is new on board. She's a Spitfire, I might say. Uh and she's going to assist Caroline.
58:22I I I want to say we'll try and get it done within the next two months officially.
58:27Okay.
58:27If that's appropriate and you'll definitely uh get a copy when it's all completed and we'll I'll give you a personal phone call.
58:36Okay. All right. Well, if something is going on, if there's an observance that you're planning, let us know so we can work together to make that a celebratory event.
58:52Okay. Yes, that we appreciate that.
58:54Yes, absolutely. Thank you.
58:56Yes, we really appreciate it.
58:58Good. Well, thank you so much for for coming here and presenting.
59:03Really nice.
59:04Thank you.
59:17Okay, I'm just going to give her my card.
59:22Okay, thank you.
59:23You're entirely welcome. Good luck.
59:25Have a good night.
59:29Okay. Item uh Pleasant Street 1680.
59:34it's that have had a request to put that on the significant structures list. Uh, ironically enough, that's diner has been there forever. Uh, and it's never been placed on the significant structures list. It's on our list. Looks like in 94 it was added on as being capable of being put on but it has never gone on the significant structures list. U it's got a lot of history and it is a
1:00:09you know both the both the individuals who constructed that initially and again the placement there a lot of history with that particular building. I think it was we attempted to do this and I think the previous owner was not interested and I think the current owner was planning on restoring it. Right.
1:00:29I think he has a lot of interest over the last few years that he that he's owned.
1:00:34It was a formal was an email sent to me uh asking to get this put on the property uh from their representative. Yeah.
1:00:49Okay.
1:00:50You remember the email? I think I sent it out to You remember? Yeah. So, the person restoring it is not the owner.
1:00:55No, it's Tony Dus who made the requests.
1:00:59Okay.
1:00:59But he's working with with the individual or the owner, present owner.
1:01:04Okay.
1:01:04Yeah.
1:01:06Oh, you are reading the emails.
1:01:09Good.
1:01:12Okay. Let's get right through this. A couple of quick mo quick items. are the public archaeology laboratories.
1:01:19Um they're currently working still on on enhancing this. It looks like we're still on schedule. Nothing new. Sometime in April, they're they're going to be getting together. Uh and that'll be uh fine. Uh Anowan Fire Station number six on on the old business. Uh it says here waiting on certification that the window requirements meet the secretary of interior standards. I did get on Friday
1:01:50uh with Felicia's uh got actually got the email from the window company certifying that they are and they do meet uh this the standards.
1:02:02So uh Felicia has emailed that out to uh all of the interesting parties including the building department. So on Friday they were uh going to or ready to issue the building permit. So those windows will be starting shortly. Uh and uh actually the Aderondac farms um we tomorrow I'm meeting with the water department and the CPC is meeting John Brandt and and uh I'm invited uh as a historic uh commissioner again to
1:02:39represent as as I stated earlier uh there's just a little bit of little concern with the aderondac moms in that that CPC funding and now there's question as to whether the CPC funding relates to that particular portion the farm and the bond.
1:02:59Okay. So, uh we're going to try and work that out and uh it'll it'll work itself out tomorrow.
1:03:08Okay. So with that, I will say that the next meeting is April the 21st and it's 7:03. Do I have any questions from anyone?
1:03:23No one. No new business. Nothing we want to discuss.
1:03:27Do I have a motion to adjourn?
1:03:30I'll make a motion to adjurnn.
1:03:31I'll second that.
1:03:33Okay. All in favor? Roll call.
1:03:36No.
1:03:38Ashley. Yes. Johnson. Yes.
1:03:39Connor, yes.
1:03:40Joyce, yes.
1:03:41Caroline, yes.
1:03:42And Rick Mancini, yes. It is now 7:03 and 7:04 and the meeting is adjourned.