3.27.2023 City Council - Ordinances and Legislation

thank you committee on ordinance and legislation will now come to ornamental clerk will you call the role Washington here pursuant to the opening law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those

present and are deemed acknowledgeable and permissible first item on the agenda is this an input sir any public that would like to speak on any issue seeing none move on to agenda item number two minutes from January 31st 2023 motion to approve motion was made by Council proposal second by Council Beau discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so voter motion carries unanimously

item number three is proposed ordinance traffic handicap parking referred to the committee on March 14th this is for Birch Street Cambridge Street uh Cambridge Street South Side 73 feet east of coral the first Cambridge Street was North Side 120 feet east of modest Street Cherry Street Downing Street Forest Street George Street Hamlet Street Jefferson Street Mott Street Mulberry Street Oswell Street Oak Grove

Street Riverview Street and Tecumseh Street any discussion is there a emergency Preamble motion second motion was made by councilor Liberty second by Council raposo roll call yep yep yes yes

is there a motion to adopt motion submit motion was made by raposo second by console Liberty all those in favor aye opposed so voted motion carries uh I forget to I did forget to mention uh Council Washington is at a charter Review Committee so she won't be here obviously as we uh have seen that she's not present with us so item number four is a proposed ordinance traffic miscellaneous targeting parking

prohibited at all times Benton Street North Side starting at Point 147 feet west of Manchester Street for a distance of 50 feet Westerly discussion questions motions I'm sorry oh I'm sorry uh section two I'm sorry I'm not for you section 2 30 minute parking McDonald Street West Side starting at 0.2 uh 258 feet north of George Street for a distance of 20 feet Northerly Monday through Saturday 8 A.M to 6 p.m

second motion was made by Council Liberties second by Council proposal discussion seeing none of those in favor aye opposed so vote in motion carries item number five is a proposed ordinance traffic miscellaneous referred to the committee on May 10 2022 stop intersection this is Granite Street eastbound Rock Street section two one-way Street Granite Street easterly from Purchase Street to Rock Street if

the committee remembers this was before us was referred out of committee then referred back to committee so discussion Council Dion yes um logically or at least my logic I find this one a little difficult in the respect that you're making it an easterly one way which is going to bring it right out to Rock Street which essentially can back up the traffic on Grant and granite and then they have to wait for the light to

change for the cars on Rock Street to move so that you can come out of granite screen so to me it makes more sense to do the one way in the Westerly Direction because at least that way when if you go to the bank and you take you take a left you can take a another left right out to um you know right Bedford Street you can go right down to North Main Street and

you're not going to bottleneck anything the people coming down rock Street could take a right go to the bank go to Main Street go to uh Bedford Street and not necessarily have to even sit at that light so that's just where I'm coming from on that the reason why we did it this way is the width at Granite and purchase is a little bit different than granite at Rock and then Granite at Rock you're

going to be able to park on the north side of granite so if there's cars park there and you make that the entrance onto Granite it's going to be a little tight especially if it's any trucks that are going to make deliveries to the restaurant that's there in a corner that's the only reason why we had it going from purchase heading east because at Granite at purchase there's no

parking on either side all the way up to the bank because it's all open um driveways so no one parks on either side so it makes it more feasible for large vehicles but whatever the committee wants so let me ask so even if so there isn't supposed to be any parking 20 feet from a corner correct correct we would have to do a no pocket here to Corner if

that's how it's going to go and but then that would allow for vehicles to make that turn it's still going to be a little tight because if you if you if you go and you take a look at it it is a little narrower than at the end of purchase right but like I said we can try it and see how that works because those Vehicles still would have the

option of going to the light taking a right and then another right and coming up anyways to service the bank or those restaurants correct so it wouldn't be prohibitive in that respect no that's my concern yield I yield sorry Council his one question are the private no parking signs still up on the left side of the street no they removed they were removed last week what happened with granite was I know that when he

came in front of city council to approve Granite as a um city street it was tabled so that we can look in what direction the sign was going to go and the traffic and all that but somehow Granite Street went through became an accepted street but yet this never got you know accepted it never went through so that's why I never put up the signs or anything because it hasn't been approved through ordinance yet

so if if you want to Direction I Would have to do more I know the paperwork I'm assuming okay um so it's your only concern then I guess the only concern changing it from easily to Westerly is is just the width of the road for for the logic delivery trucks any further discussion what's the will of the committee I would make the motion that it be in the Westerly Direction but it's up to

everybody else a motion was made by Council Dion to have the one-way going Westerly is there a second

Council Albany here's a cool question you might have said it I apologize on the opposite side of the block that's going Westerly correct is that a one way the other side is a one-way from North Main to purchase no if I'm on Brock heading south and I turn like I'm going to the St James that's a lot yes West Franklin Street so would you change right would you change you'd have both of them one ways Western

Well Bank Bank Street is a one-way heading East Franklin is a one-way heading west Granite would be a one-way heading west because it's Franklin bank and then Granite I mean I'm sure you put thought and time into this like I said you know we did go up there we took a look at the width of the road at Rock and that was our thinking you know if a large vehicle

wants to make that sharp turn you've got that wall that um is on the south side that prevents anybody from going over to the parking lot whereas at the beginning of granite at purchase you have nothing that's going to stop any Vehicles going by but like I said it's up to the committee all right there was a motion no second sir any discussion any motion motion dot was made by Council of

Liberty is there a second second by console proposal discussion hearing on Mount clerk we call the roll no Council of Liberty yes counselor raposo yes motion passes item number six proposed ordinance for water and sewer rates referred to the committee on March 14th they'll ask the administration to come down

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just state names for the records I think we all know who who everybody is but just for the record uh Paul Ferlin the administrator of community utilities Seth Aiken City ministrator uh Miss Farland do you have presentation do you want us to open it up to questions how do you want us to proceed um don't have an overall presentation if you want I can run through what the proposed reaches are uh and then we can

we can move into questions from that point sounds good all right so uh we'll take the sewer division first within uh this year's uh this year's Water and Sewer rates the sewer rate proposed uh is six dollars and six cents per CCF and the stormwater fee that is proposed uh is five dollars per eru per quarter uh that is a increase from last year's prior fiscal rates a 31 cents per CCF on

the sewer and three dollars per eru uh per quarter on the stormwater within the water division budget the water rate proposed is 3.77 per CCF that's a 20 cent increase from the existing fiscal year rates that are proposed both of these rate increases support the budget that has been proposed to the city council discussion Council proposal so I guess when I when I look over the budgets the the two things that stick

out to me are cost of chemicals and salaries so let's start with chemicals and I know we've talked about the massive amount of costs that it's happening I'm assuming it's not getting any better you know you know uh chemicals uh you know really started to increase uh from supply chain issues I know that everybody talked about supply chain issues uh but this is really something that's really impacted our operations

both water and sewa water and sewer we use a fair amount of chemicals for treatment of water primarily some of the big ones within the water drinking water treatment is sodium hypochlorite for disinfection of the water we also use poly aluminum chloride also known as pack both of those chemicals over the past two years have seen great increases within within it so just to uh just to

go so from FY 22 actuals within the water it was 480 000 budgeted for this coming year 814 000. so substantial increase in just a two-year period as far as sewer sodium hypochlorite is one of the large chemicals that we use for disinfection as well as sodium bisulfate those chemicals went to FY 22 actuals 386 thousand dollars uh to fy24 budgeted 844 000. uh substantial increases that are just

not something that we can control uh we go out to bid every year for those chemicals uh based on the quantities we group water and sew it together to try to even get a better rate because it's a bigger quantity uh for the ones that we can share together compared to the state bid list typically what we get is cheaper than what's uh what's put out there on the state bid list through

chemical suppliers I feel that the supplies we get do the best that they can but um you know it's been a great increase you know you look at just the overall chemicals in the past couple years sodium hypochlorite was one that was talked about you think about two years ago that people would get in trouble having trouble getting that chemical to chlorinate their pools drinking water and wastewater took

priority but again that whole you know you saw it in the retail Market when we're buying it on the bulk Market there was definitely a uh an issue with with getting it in one of the demand is there the price goes up so that's what drives that oxygen another chemical that we use in the Wastewater Plant uh you've heard about that over the past year well I've heard about it medical facilities and

everything having issues getting that CO2 that we use within uh water treatment that's another one that over the years over the past year you hear about medical facilities in different places having issues getting those um we're lucky because we're prioritized we haven't had any issues with getting the chemicals besides fluoride this is the only one that we have had issues with getting that chemical over the past

couple of years but all the other chemicals we have had not had any interruptions yeah that means just a massive amount of funds to cover that but it makes makes plenty of sense the fact that how difficult it is to get and how expensive it is so the second part is the salaries and that to me after reviewing the budget seems to be the biggest other biggest increase so just some thoughts

on that from you yeah so again within the salaries you'll notice both within Water and Sewer there has been increased uh over the uh past eight months or so we've been working with the Union to negotiate a increase in wages uh so that uh water department and Sewer Department employees are somewhere comparable to other communities for the past couple years I've been talking about the

staffing issues that we've had at the treatment plan as well as our water distribution and other areas um within within our divisions that's because of the wage different and people leaving the city to go somewhere where they're getting paid more money whether it be another municipality a private company or either other departments within the city as well too so this uh this side

letter is uh currently in front of the union for their uh for their vote in the budget that is proposed the FY 24 budget along with these rates that are there include those increases so those increases are already built within that budget that's why within the salary line items there are increases I'll yield for now thank you any further discussions oh boy um I'm pretty certain people are gonna

know in advance where I'm gonna go um we had a big discussion this year about Opera funding and offsetting your rates which could have happened um we had between Bristol County and City Opera funds but a little we had approximately 86 million dollars federal dollars at Fall River has begged for for years if we had put 30 million Into Water and Sewer infrastructure we still had 56 million to spread around

which I think was more than enough there was a discussion at a meeting that it was only going to save 11 a year two dollars a quarter for rate payers Mr Ferlin at that same meeting and it's on tape I went back and watched every meeting over and over again was 50 to 65 cents per CCF at 53 ccfs a year which is far more than 11 a year um

you know do these people deserve a raise they absolutely do deserve a raise could these rates have been offset they certainly could have could we have done more for our workers our ratepayers and our taxpayers absolutely we could have and that's where I have a problem and basically um so I really struggle with that I hate that we didn't that we don't do more didn't do more and just take the easy way out all the time

I do have a question on sorry I didn't mean to bang the mic and I'm not directing that at you I think you realize it's just like my colleague and see I get very passionate when it comes to the water department um on page six section uh one sec subsection one subsection two um do these all apply to sewer or do some of them apply to water somehow I don't know why it's I'm not um

I'm not being clear I know you said the 606 um masseur what's the 271 to 289 do you want me to all right I need it back because it has my agenda on it I see Mr agar in the audience is going to be upset if I don't call him down yeah so uh which subsection specifically um let's see well can we go through all of them and just explain what exactly

because this is the old what's an ordinance correctly correct yeah so this is this is the changes that would be put within the ordinance book so this goes through and starts with section one uh talks about the fee schedule uh which includes the user fees for Wastewater collection to be amended as followed uh subjection one uh by striking out the 5.75 and inserting six dollars and six

cents so that's uh the increase of uh one CCF for uh sewer usage sure yep subsection two striking out paragraph a subsection two and of section 5.75 and inserting the six thousand six cents uh so again that's in relation to the Sue associate ccfs um subsection 2 again striking out the 2.71 cents and placing in the 2.89 so that's what is that section is part of the significant industrial user

uh so any user that uses over 25 gallons uh 25 000 gallons per year uh yes 25 000 gallons per year they get a uh that's their sewer rate if they are considered a significant industrial user as being part of our pre-treatment program self-monitoring and uh treating their own waste for uh any contaminants prior to coming into us so the increase is 18 cents yes so it's based on the percentage of

what the residential sewer user rate went up uh days went up by the same percentage then you have subsection four which is uh houses that do not have water meters so if you have a house that is not supplied by water which is the typical we Bill the sewer based off the water usage that goes through the meter so if you don't have a meter so we can't read it this is the number of people that

live in that household starts with one person all the way down increasing by one person per a line item that's a yearly charge that's applied to those uh to those houses uh as you go into section two that goes into discuss the stormwater fee uh and the stormwater fee again uh striking out the 188 dollars per year uh in placing 200 per year uh striking out the 47 per quarter per uh eru and putting in place

of it fifty dollars per quarter per year it's unfortunate that we're still needing to increase the water runoff I mean that was something uh I don't know I feel like there just should be a cap on that at some point but um okay so the all right and the 377 is strictly water okay okay thank you thank you Council I agree with pretty much everything my colleague to my right said which is

why I let her go first I have the same opinion on the arbor funds um I believe the city should have used more Opera funds towards your department to work on the projects and we wouldn't have to continue to do this or at least not at this rate unfortunately we only have control over the Bristol County Opera funds we don't have control over the other Opera funds and the council has been very vocal to the administration

at least some of the council has been vocal to the administration on how we would like to see that used there's nothing we can do about it so our once again our backs are up against the wall last year I voted no on this just solely on principle it's unfortunate that you know they're going your employees are going through collective bargaining but it's it's connected to this well you know again and that's the tough

thing with an Enterprise fund you know an Enterprise fund is just like a uh you know you cannot spend more than what you take in but it's the same with the regular budget too we were asking Council if you're doing before that the meeting I mean we have to approve the other collective bargaining we have to make sure we can afford it and the city raises taxes to be able to do that or

brings in revenues or or whatnot so this is bringing in Revenue um I do have one question when we talked about Stafford Square a couple years ago you had said I want to say we would need 40 45 million to be able to do that project um and we'll never have 45 million I don't think again in our lifetime so um we could have done that project with Arbor funds that those storm basins I've just

educated those drain into live sewer they're not a gray matter system uh no gray water system so there's multiple um different ones within that in catchment area so there is separated drainage to repulsion of that as you get into the staff it's Square intersection there's three separate drains separated drains that come down there one's the white field drain uh owns the Brookside drain

I believe it was called so that one kind of comes down Pleasant Street crosses to the bank parking lot goes into the parking lot of the shopping plaza the White Field comes from where the mill is across the street actually goes underneath part of the mill comes down that's a large Culvert and then there's one that comes down Quarry Street which actually gets uh drain from the Old

Quarry behind small school that used to be there so there is separated drainage in part of that area as you move up Pleasant Street within that encatchment area there is combined stormwater catch basins up in that area so you know part of the problem is all the water comes down to that one low point from as far Barrett against Locust Street and Eastern Avenue all comes down to that one point gets

there and has a tough time getting out of that that area so yeah there is both combined so this combined so is the water that's flooding that that's mixed with live sower uh no so that that the water that comes up to the surface essentially is uh the storm water from all the drains the sewer travels down Pleasant Street there's two different routes for the sewer to take um so you don't have manhole covers

popping there or anything like that I don't know if you remember the globe intersection you used to have that manhole cover with about four or five feet in the air and that was combined with sewer and storm water you don't have that uh at that intersection so it's not combined sewer no so not to say that it's totally clean because all the storm water does have some containments to run off with it naturally but it's

not uh combined suit it's not a sanitary sewer overflow that would be considered okay and have you um I think this is in Council dance committee has there been any talk with the city engineer about any fixes to that area where it's flooding those homes the new homes so I visited the area many times our Engineers have um so you're talking about uh Tiffany Drive in uh carlissa Street those we have looked at those

areas again uh that's part of the white field drain that actually goes and backs all the way up there under high intensity rainstorms it backs up as far as in front of Columbus Park over on Bedford Street the water that pool is there is because of the way it feels rain so again that's you know once we're able to get the water out of Stafford Square in the future that water would be able to come

in in and come out of that to for those independent homes right there right now it's kind of all related to stuff but when we're able to get rid of the water and Stafford Square which how would we do that with the 45 million dollars yeah you know again so we peered it down uh that was a full three-phased approach we paid it down to a two-phase approach we currently we applied for two grants for

32 million dollars one was through Hazard mitigation through Mima that one did not go uh forward was not chosen to go forward but that's because we also applied for the brick Grant which is a which is a national grant program through FEMA and that is still an evaluation with FEMA on that agreement when will we know um they said that we would be told whether we're going to be picked to advance

um I think probably within the next two months or so and then once you get through the initial round then you'll be able to you know then they still evaluate after that FEMA sometimes uh isn't always the quickest I'm picking stuff up all right um so I you know I think several of us counselors are share the same frustration I can't I don't know how else we can express to the administration that we'd like to see

more Opera funds go to Water and Sewer projects if we don't if we don't say yes to this then what happens besides the salaries yeah so again the um the negotiated side letter with the Union is is tied to these rate increases to be able to support the budget for fy24 um you know there would need to be substantial cuts across uh both divisions uh you know the tough thing is

um you know with the chemical increase the labor increase those types of things particularly those on things that opera or other types of funding sources potentially could pay for but you know naturally the more debt that we can get off of the books by being able to use other funding sources uh is something that's good um you know and and we've done that very well over the past couple of years

um you know in the city of uh in the Maze speech state of the city he mentioned 23 million dollars that we've secured between Opera and other funds there's probably another 10 to 15 million that have been secured in principal reduction against loans and things like that so we are always looking for those alternate funding sources throughout all of the divisions but there would be substantial

Cuts again you know Cuts naturally with the way that our budgets are constructed you're talking about 92 percent fixed costs within the sewer you know we have a chemical course we have electrical costs we have our debt service so do we not pay back our debt service and then it impacts our financial ratings can't turn off the lights you know we if we could keep taking what's given to us

can't cut on chemicals because then we're not going to meet our permits so we're very limited in what can be cut from our budget uh you know you're talking Capital uh water capital I cut this year because uh you know planning to use free cash for some things so what can be cut you end up talking about Labor you talk about contractual Services other than that there's really not much within our budget you know

you're 92 percent fixed cost within yasua in your 84 fixed cost within your water so where do you come sorry what was the water number 84. 84 percent thank you yeah so where do you come you know that's that's the tough thing any other discussion Council down if that funding were to come through what is the dollar amount attached to it 32 million you applied for 32. so there'd be 13 million that you'd still require

uh well so we put together a project that took us through phase one uh phase two and integrated the needed parts of phase three to mitigate the flooding uh some of the third phase reached far far up within the Watershed and stuff like that uh alleviate the immediate immediate flooding within Stafford Square we paid the project down uh so that we could have a viable project to put forward through fever and Lima

so in the end result how much more money above the 32 million would you need so to do the full would be another 13 million 13 million well well I think I can honestly say that if we could have a commitment of 13 million to add to the FEMA 32 million assuming that comes through I could vote Yes for this because at least we'd be helping the rate pays we'd still be offsetting we'd

be solving a huge problem that would never ever as you said In Our Lifetime ever going to be able to tackle and that's a shame that you got the money sitting right there in the bank and not using it for the right purposes and it drives me crazy that I yield Council proposal with the increases Mr Ferlin what are you expecting the impact on the income is going to be so if you raise it from

575 to 606 what are you going to essentially collected Revenue additionally so the uh to the average household yeah yeah so to the average households who would be 21.25 increase per quarter per year uh per year and water would be ten dollars and sixty cents per year to the average household and the average is based on based on 53 CCF water usage per year so that works out to 61 cents per week I

rounded to the average household I'm going to ask a question because I guess maybe I don't understand the historical significance of it but the stormwater fee right so you're proposing an increase of three dollars for 47 to 50.

what exactly does a stormwater fee cover through the stormwater peak of his uh so again and Sewer Enterprise fund is uh is an Enterprise fund the there's a couple of different revenue streams uh the two major major revenue streams are the uh sewer user fee and then also the stormwater fee every year we go through do an analysis to look at uh whether it be debt that's coming on board uh our

staff's time or anything related to cso work or independent stormwater work so that's what the stormwater fee goes to pay for uh is the breakdown of the cost within the sua Enterprise fund that are related to cso or separated storm sewer so really the stormwater fee doesn't really impact chemical costs per se well it does because you still have the CSO portion of that so your CSO still uh

goes through your treatment plan um so during a wet weather storm we can go from 23 million gallons per day at our wastewater treatment facility up to 110 million gallons a day I'll show you chemical usage at that point goes significantly higher okay you mentioned the projects and the debt so how does that factor into your determination of the increase of rates because they know and we're talking

about the arpa money and some arpa money has been allocated to some projects yep so really I guess my question comes how much do I formulate this question right how much does how much weight does the debt in the projects add to the need for the increase of the rates So within this year um our debt service did not increase a lot to tell uh this year our test service was was

pretty close to level funded we had some newer short-term debt that came on board uh we're going to have some newer long-term debt that's coming on board towards the end of 24 and into 25 some long-term debt for the uh ongoing upgrades down to the wastewater treatment plan right now but The Debt Service this year was pretty pretty flat line between water and so we calculate that by going through we get the debt

schedule schedules for all the loans that we have we work with the treasurer's office and our financial advisors to make sure that we have all the uh all the long-term debt schedules correct all the short-term death schedules and those are the uh those are the amounts that you see in there so if you actually look at the independent debt service within the budgets you'll see that that actual long-term debt uh

principle and interest went down and some short that was because of all the loans 20 or 30 year old and then last question in in the as I went through the budget in the water budget there's the line item of other Personnel costs can you def I mean we do this in the general budget too but what Define other Personnel costs yeah so if you look at you're looking at the water

budget uh yeah so within the water budget there's three separate divisions you have treatment and resources uh you have uh maintenance and distribution and you also have the administration they each have their own salary lines each one of those is carried with the other Personnel cost and that's part of the side letter agreement uh increase okay all right I yield thank you any other questions uh Mr Ferlin just a

couple questions for you so along the lines that Mr proposal was asking about the debt and um I guess the increases that were there full water what was the original rate so it's going to 3.77 what's this current years uh 3.57 57 so 20 cents correct um so I know you said the the debts because of the retiring debt is level funded but when we do what do we on phase

so that's usually under just under 4 million I usually just under five pound to five so it's Waterford projects like that alone what what do you what would you have to increase so how many how many cents to cover just that replacement so I guess let me take a step back so and I asked this every year and I know it changes so one cent increase for sewer and water generates how much so we're roughly uh

so sewer you're roughly about 25 000 uh in water you're roughly about thirty one thousand okay for every penny correct that's that's pretty consistent over the years so to cover the so if there was no I mean there's always going to be a retiring debt but if you get to a point whether that's not retiring enough to to offset the the increase you would have to raise a significant amount of

money in terms of at least the rate to cover just the the uh the dead increases right yeah um yeah again so if you're talking to four or five million dollar project uh you know divide that by the 20 years plus your interest and that's roughly you know so 25 000. per whatever it works out to be right okay then my other question is how much retained earnings or free cash

is being used in each of the uh budgets So within the sewer division we're using one million four hundred forty seven thousand five hundred and twenty eight dollars of retained earnings uh that's a reduction from last year's use of retained earnings that we had within the budget uh last year was roughly about 1.7 million yeah um the water department budget we're using 296 571 dollars of retained earning and

that's level funded from last year's okay if you remember last year too we did do a reduction within the water free cash from the breakfast and what's the balances on those so so sure we are using 100 of retained earnings so yeah Sarah left yeah uh So within the sewer though we did have a late receipt that came in uh with the uh accounting team um it was not able to be certified

within the free cash from last year I was in a substantial rebate from a contract uh three hundred thousand dollars so that will roll out coming years of free cash but that would have been in Latin this free cash so and then water we will be left with uh 103 544 dollars

so I will say I I can appreciate the you know the rates you know the concern about the rates going up but as we had conversations whether it's in the Enterprise fund or in the general fund uh you will have to either raise revenue or taxes to be able to cover whatever costs come here um what I will say is and I've said this before you know prior administrations have offset the rate

increases significantly with the use of one-time funds which to me creates structural deficits we still have 1.4 million dollars in the suicide which again is a structural deficit God forbid something happens we have zero funding to be able to go to the uh you know to the retained earnings to be able to offset some of the costs and I know some of our facilities are in need of repair they could be um

major issues that that take place at the sewer treatment plant water department um similar situation only a hundred and three thousand dollars so when we start looking at you know the increases I you know the increase probably should be much more significant and I know we're trying to to minimize that I will Echo what my colleagues have said I'm a little disappointed we haven't we didn't do more in terms of

trying to offset the rates with the use of Opera money or even taking some of the um other Capital items off the uh off the table so that we're not adding to The Debt Service that being said you know we do have to take action on this and I think when you look at a budget especially on the suicide 90 being fixed costs it's very challenging to to try to and I I know it's not

scare tactic and some folks may take it that way but when you have 92 percent of fixed costs I challenge folks to try to try to reduce you know any type of budget with a 92 percent fixed costs might be a little bit easier on the water but that's still at 84 so I mean just round that up to 85 you got 15 that's left to be to be reduced so a

good majority of that's going to come from Staffing you start reducing Staffing then we've got Federal mandates that can come down um so there is a balance that being said there there is action that needs to be taken uh Madam clerk can you remind me how long do we have the it's 45 days to act on the budget yes on the budget which was submitted before the third March 3rd 14th

the 14th okay so was it the other council meeting okay so we've got 45 days so I don't know what the will of the committee is whether there's a recommendation out to the uh to the full Council obviously the full council is still going to need to debate the budget and again it's almost a chicken and eggs scenario here what do we deal with first is it the raid source is it the budget so

it may make sense to just make a recommendation one way or another get it out to full Council and if that recommendation is is upheld during budget negotiations then you know this this committee has done what it's needed to do but if it needs to come back then we can meet within the 45-day period Council Albany we received it March 14th so yeah I submitted to the actual the mayor submitted on the third and then

the first council meeting in 2014. so what is the actual start date though are they going to say it was the third because it was submitted on the third even though we didn't get it till the 14th yeah one of the semantics correct again according to everything that I have my budgets need to be submitted by the you know to the council 120 days prior to the start of the physical year

which is in March 3rd so I I don't know whether it would be the third or the 14th that would be that would stop the clock to the 45 days so to be on the safe side March 3rd is your day yeah so I would err on the side of caution been there done that not getting bitten again no I want to make sure everybody's over here point of clarification the uh received

the city clerk March 3rd okay 23.

so is there a motion

go on tomorrow night okay well if it's recommended for first week it doesn't wait till the 11th right is there a motion to adopt motion motion to adopts made by Council Liberty is there a second second by console proposal Madam clerk will you call the rule temperature down no counselor of Liberty yes councilor proposal yes yes thank you folks

item number seven is a resolution to discuss the noise complaint regarding far of a coin operated car washes located at um 1225 Tooele Street this was tabled on January 31st 2023. I believe we have the police department here we got some folks I think some uh some residents that want to speak on behalf of the item before us all have those individuals come down now motion lift from the table uh motion lift table

was made by Council of proposals their second second by Council uh lilibity all those in favor aye oppose so vote in motion carries uh there was a letter that we did receive uh from the police chief regarding the number of complaints the responses to the um to those complaints we did have those conversations back on January with Corporation Council assistant Corporation Council I should

say and assistant Corporation Council did have another meeting to attend so I told them he wasn't needed for this meeting so if we do feel like we need additional discussion with Corporation Council then we we can just table this for another meeting to have them come down but I think plan the last time the comp the committee met was to really refer this back to the Chief and see what he would

say in terms of the enforcement of the bylaw I mean I'm sorry the ordinance the noise ordinance that we have so is there any discussion no discussion so I'll if you can just state your name for the record letters from um second floor

yeah can you give us the address for the record it's uh 1227 Diwali that's the house I'm complaining but I live on 12 15.

and I am the landlord and my wife's the landlord but um we know we've been complaining about this for quite a bit of time you know and it's um it's aggravating because I lost already a couple of people that were really good to me and living in the house and in two years I lost three tenants because it and I have some is it because of the rent was it because of me

no it's always comes out to be the color as it is the street is all very busy as it is so you know it's I need help on his Scholars I know we can I'm not here to shut it down I'm here to quiet the car wash because it's it bothers me I get up one o'clock in the morning and that's where I go to work I get up and um

sometimes I call the cops no I'm already I don't want to call them anymore because I'm already aggravated and then I heard the last minute I was here it just like he told bad news it's like I'm the bad guy and I got one of the tenants she's over there too and she's on fifth floor and she she's realizing you know when I rent the house today to the tenants I always tell them Carlos makes noise

okay I that's the first thing I say okay and well you know how can you explain the noise you know it it varies it's not all it's not 24 hours but it's any time I had somebody that lived on the second floor she had a baby girl 18 months she told me before she she moved down in November she told me you know because I come from the family and I know how it

is when you have kids and um she told me that you know I'm tired she was a girl she's a garments counselor she was in the school upon she told me she was tired it was eight o'clock she wouldn't get the kid I don't know where and the kid was very agitated very you know one of those old days and she she did everything she could she fed him and she could quiet down so he tried

to put him to sleep so she did about half an hour later somebody comes with a lot of music and just woke up the kid how does that mother feel after working a hard day like everybody else does you know what I mean I just get and and another thing is the officers they come by my street at one and a lot sometimes like when I get out I get out on Twitter I get out of

the house and um I see officers coming with a cop car they got the lights they're going to Sunset Hill I'm sure that's where they're going and they got their lights on but they don't have no Sirens there's no noise I see ambulance doing the same thing why is this car wash bothering me at night when I'm sleeping how can this be I just can't understand how can this be

that's what I and I've been a landlord there for 30 years I've been living in that in that house for 30 years I'm worried to the point that I gotta I gotta move out well I gotta sell out to the rest you know I got plenty of time to rest when I die you know what I mean but I need to rest when I I work a hard day I work at a

bakery sometimes the heat can get to you you know you come home you it's not you're tired it's the Heat and then I you know you take a nice shower I fall asleep at a hobby but then you get some I live about 100 feet away because I live in the next house or whatever and I can you know they wakes me up you know I'm not gonna get up at one

o'clock two o'clock three o'clock and keep calling an officer you know they got better things to do you know so I I just want this noise to go away you know I know it's not going to go away 100 and it's not just the music it's the swearing and then sometimes they got kids it seems like they take the car they take everything out of the car and vacuum their car and the kids run their own

I just need help on this thing I'm losing tenants because it is car wash and it's making my property look like you know it's like you know you put a bad apple in the neighbor one apple ruins the whole neighborhood is that what forever is going is that into it seems like the whole world's ending to that so we're just following along you know you go by my property I think I

take care of it enough enough you know I just want I just want quiet that's all I ask for me because I I don't ask I don't want to I don't want to trouble the cops I don't need that because they got better things to do they do have better things to do but I don't think they don't live there so they can't tell me Islamic noise I never seen an officer go

by there when it's making noise yeah they go by there when it's not making noise they pass by but I never see it you know I just don't get it I need help so I think you know we we appreciate the quality of life issue we hear what you're saying I think everybody on the uh Committee in the council wants to try to address this uh Council a little

while you have hands up do we have an update from um the police department on on I wasn't at the last meeting but I we did speak I'm sorry oh wait that's the one I just read never mind never mind um the chief Chief's letter is up to date right yep okay okay so I guess my question is can we can we put hours on the car wash so when the corporation assistant

Corporation Council was down uh we had discussed potentially doing a license for car wash car washes he he recommended that that's probably not something that would be upheld in court but there's nothing stopping us from putting hours on car washes requiring licenses whether it gets challenged and it's upheld in court it's a it's a different story so typically we had talked about this last time when you're

in a town any bylaw that you put forth is reviewed by the Attorney General's office so the the Attorney General will review it to make sure that it will up for as much pot as much as possible will assist these sustained in court right so here with cities because you have in-house Corporation councils the AG's office doesn't require review of ordinances so you never know where you're going to stand in terms of a

challenge so like so the only way to put hours on it would be to heaven have to have a license is that what you're saying uh or correct or you would just we would create a an ordinance that would establish uh license and hours for Car Wash operations without the license without the license but if again if you're going to impact a business I'm sure there's going to be some challenges associated with it so

um but if the business is impacting the neighborhood quality of life right right yeah I recognize that it's both time all right I yield at a last meeting they agreed to shut the vacuum off that was closest to the house have they done that ma'am I I honestly I'm so fed up with the place that I don't even I don't even know anything anymore it's like I just said everything keeps going around the

wrong and it's it's during the day too you know if I have a picnic in my backyard you know and if so I have a family right away there's a cop somebody a neighbor causes a cop right there we call an officer to come there when it's this noise they show up later because they got more important things to do I understand because they shortage this is sort of everything you know what I mean and um

the thing is it's like I said it it seems like I'm lying you know it's like if you call somebody it's like everybody's going around and around it's like a big moon you know it just keeps going around you know I just listen I I dealt with a years ago because I like I said I lived there for 30 years okay that's how long I've been married okay and um and it's yeah it wasn't

happening before so how long has this how long do you think the actual real noise problem has been going on at this point in a few years I just didn't know the routine yeah I didn't want to be a complainer but now it's costing me money because my tenants are moving and it's good people you know and I have the arrange decent enough I think I do you know and I got

one of the tenants there she can explain she's been living here for about I think two years and she's an older person and you know I I care about my tenants I'm not what they call a scum Lord you know you know it's um some people just look for the to make the big bucks no I I want them to live there and I want them to stay there you know you

know I killed it killed my heart when a girl moved on and she had a baby girl I wanted to see a little girl grow because I don't have a kid myself I had a big family but I don't have a kid myself and she was there like for seven years well you know I had one lady 20 something years that was my father-in-law's time blood you know the only way you can

avoid the Skywatch is by being deaf yeah so my I guess my recommendation and I I don't mean to cut you off but last time we were here assistant Corporation Council suggested that the noise ordinance was in place that we had to establish it you know that was the mindset and the logic behind it was let's enforce the noise ordinance let's see where it gets us so now that we're in the get coming upon

April May that's when that car wash is going to start getting busy let's give it a couple of months let's see what the police department does with the noise ordinance uh if it doesn't resolve then I would say that we come back and then we start having some real discussions about putting specific times associated with car washes I will say and I have this conversation with with John uh

today I used to live next to a car wash and right at 10 o'clock when it's quiet you know once they stop going in and you got those um you know those dryers that are kicking on and things like that it is very very loud you can hear it during the day it's still noisy but there's so much noise going on it kind of gets muffled but when it's silent you know 10

11 o'clock at night you can hear it so I can imagine you know what the noise is over there with the vacuums and and the uh the car wash itself so you know we had this conversation with Cumberland Farms I that was one of the issues that I brought up with Cumberland Farms is that they wanted a car wash right behind a residential neighborhood and that's why I oppose the Cumberland Farms going

there because they had the car wash I was okay with gas station things that nature but you know the car washes have significant impact in quality life issues for residents so it's just unfortunate it's on the side of residential property so close to even that vacuum you know what I mean and then the thing is the vacuum makes noise and then they crack the music and it's not no good music

it's not no John Travolta you know it's uh it's this music that you can even understand they talk about their own mothers and fathers and swearing it's the swearing you know I already seen needles on the side of the um my fence it hasn't happened for a while but I did so reach it and I and I pointed to the guy and I said look I don't know you know but it's you know

I'm afraid to talk to a person because then he can say I'm I'm doing something to cause problems another thought um because I know this came up with one of the Lots where the school buses were kept and them starting the cars in the morning and they talked about sound proofing putting a wall a sound a buffer between where the buses were and where the houses were is that something you

could look at in terms of this problem yes so I mean I I think you would probably run more of a risk of a challenge because now you're you're telling a business what they have to do in terms of the property that they're currently operating in right so it's not like they were going in and then you have like a site review um that's going on and you want to have some buffers whether it's vegetation or

whatever the case may be I think the best possible solution that we have is putting hours of operation on the business that would probably be able to be justified and argued in court that would probably have a fighting chance I think if you stop putting all these other demands on on the business I think you're going to run into a problem where a court is not going to accept that

you come on Doug you gotta you got to come on down I just need your name and address for the record um all right thank you John I hope that you guys can help me out oh she has them

Vanessa Aruda and I live at 1227 dwelling Street on the first law um and I knew you said Everything's changed but everything does change so when that business was went in we didn't have the type of stereo systems that we have now um so the amount of noise that it creates and it really is less than five feet from my bedroom window I'm not the healthiest person around and even now today is because it's stress and

inclusions so as I stressed out not that that's my only thing but when you have people playing this music like five feet from your bedroom window and sometimes it's allowed it in the house and it is because when you're outside you're hearing the vacuum going you're I mean I'm literally screaming at these people then they notice me there to say can you turn the guy that runs it the

guy that was here he hears it he's out there with them talking smack using his F words all this stuff right there outside my bedroom window so he's not any part of a help he's part of the problem and so people kind of do whatever and the reason when I ask them why they go to that in particular vacuum and not the one across the way it's because the house casts shade

so I mean it is a little bit of ridiculous that they use a house as a protector and everything but yet and still I have to deal physically mentally emotionally with all the garbage they put out and still pay my rent and it's they have a lovely property there and I enjoy the neighborhood but that we have other businesses there the banks there the car will I mean the gas stations there the gas station it has

their bit of problems with accidents or whatever but it's not like that car wash in that music and how they just hang there uh it's and the signs that they put about live music like this big we need like something on the side of a house if they're going to use a house about I mean it's just ridiculous and he doesn't enforce it and nobody seems to kill yeah and meanwhile it's driving me

absolutely nuts so we'll try to address it but um you know we're very limited on how much we can do so we're not going to be able to eliminate the noise uh we'll be able to eliminate during certain hours because really truly because they that there was probably no ordinance when they built that vacuum and if you stood in my house like people that come today they'll you'll go oh my God what's that no

that's outside that's it it's it's just unbelievable and I know they told me oh yeah there's a college but anyone because I feel like I'm a reasonable intelligent woman the amount of noise that it generates I would have never thought I grew up on Broadway I grew up on Broadway now that's the vacuum closest to your house yes and that's the one that they agreed to shut off at

night yes no you know you have people I have pictures of people here at midnight one o'clock in the morning like whatever it's a total free-for-all and I called the police and they come out they'll but they come out it's like those people are gone hours ago I mean it's it's impossible to kind of track you know um but even what I'm saying is when there's music in this activity going on

the gentleman that's the manager there he does absolutely nothing he like laughs at it to him it's a big joke he just is like in your face nothing's gonna ever be resolved what's Grandma like he's smug you just want to choke them well you know you're frustrated from everything else so that's not too far-fetched until it's a nightmare sorry I invite each and every one of you to come over for dinner and sit there on

lunch with me all right thank you um so Council proposal and Council a little liberty yeah if I could ask the officer here can you define what what is a business check yeah no no I'm sorry should I go now yeah you're good thank you thank you so a business check is essentially the officer will go to that location and just make sure that everything seems and appears to be a normal function that

there's nothing out in the ordinary typically we do business checks for banks we'll walk in and we'll ask the clerks if you know how everything's going if there's anything suspicious in that event given that it's a car wash though I would imagine that the officer would just drive through or get out make sure that there isn't rubbish everywhere and things seem to be a normal water okay so

the business checks are not necessarily a result of a phone call or complaint which is normal it's a complete it's completely up to the root officer when they have availability during their shift they could do it multiple times they could do it one time you know beginning of their shift um or like I said multiple times throughout their shift but yes it's it's completely sporadic okay you mean

I personally don't understand why you wash your cards o'clock in the morning anyway personally that's just me um you know I I do I do support this idea that we look at a possible hours of operation but I guess the question becomes how many businesses will we affect by doing that um and I think that's what we have to consider as well because we we have to let a business operate and make money

and make a living and all that but I also understand that the living situation we have but at the core of it I don't wash my car too long in the morning so I don't know why anybody else would to be honest so I would support this idea of some sort of our regulation I think we need to do some research to find out how many car washes are in operation the city how

many of them are managed actively versus a 24-hour come as you go type of establishment because I think those can differ you know I can think of one car wash in the city that has set hours and after that the day is done the day is done there's nothing else happening versus other ones that are 24 hours go through do your thing and leave and that can be at any time of the day or night

um you know I can understand a little bit more the afternoon situation because it's the middle of the day but I I can't fathom why you do it at the middle of the morning so um I would support an idea of looking at first researching what the impact would be to do that and then secondly putting something in motion and if it will be channels that'd be challenged I guess

it's one of those things if we don't do we'll never know so when I come home from one of my uh two o'clock in the morning Board of Select my meetings I'll pull up into your driveway without washing my car I'll get the holes out for you thanks that's a little bit on the Cumberland Farm student we amend time for the car wash we did right so and I understand what you're saying

about seeing about the other car washes but some of them aren't right next to a residential house if this was a residential house that was making noise in the middle of the night and there was police calls going to it and I know I'm speaking to the property owner that he said they don't even call most of the time because they don't want to be a pain but if if that was a residential house

and they and they were making noise in the middle of the night they'd be nuisance property and they'd be fined so why are we able to do that with this well I'm sure we can but to your point I don't think there's enough calls that are being made right because they don't want to and I know and again I recognize that so that's why I guess my recommendation would be that hearing

that we want to try to I guess put limits on the hours of operation that yeah they do have a right to run a business but they don't have a right to make noise past our noise ordinance I mean when that auto shop on South Main when the customers when the residents were complaining about a smell we how many times do we meet on them when we just had the fish storage unit on

Peckham Street the neighbors were complaining I mean I know that they're it's a city and it's businesses and residential but um so what I would I guess what I would recommend is that we table this and then we come back and let's just say mid-may which would give the police department at least a couple of a couple of months um so just enforce the noise ordinance and then we can ask the clerk of she

wouldn't mind just figuring out how many car washes we have and if we can get hours of operations for those so I guess my my thought on that is I mean if a car wash isn't next to a residential building yeah you're gonna run into a situation if it's going to get challenged then it's going to get challenged even more if you're not consistent across the board may I point a clarification I think one

of the the example I used that car washes in a resident smack dab of the residential area however it has set hours so it's never an issue and I don't know what the ordinance is the ordinance usually has a set time and maybe where hours is is so vague but usually it's you know like six o'clock in the morning till um yeah is it seven to ten yeah can I add something one of the things

that might be helpful to know is that the apartment building we're talking about is Zone day two which is apartment District it is immediately adjacent to 1225 dwelling which is BL local business district if you wanted to do something that wouldn't be considered an unlawful taking it wouldn't get overturned you might limit the limitation to anything that is immediately adjacent to a

residential or apartment District so if you were just to say car washes have to close at a certain time I think that becomes essentially a taking right becomes you're singling out car washes but if you were to say businesses that you know generate you know they have outdoor business after a certain time that are immediately adjacent to a residential apartment District that's actually tailored enough where you could

probably have it be challenge proof uh that's just my thought because I was looking at the zoning so I just wanted to throw that out I guess could you since you proposed that could you work with the assistant Corporation Council to just kind of draft something for maybe mid-may yes okay absolutely does that work for everybody yeah it's good I promise I promise Lauren we'd be out by seven so yeah I yield

thank you thanks for letting me come down say your birthday happy birthday so I make a motion a table motion table was made by Council proposal second by Council Liberty all those in favor aye opposed supporters make sure that he understands what that heard what we're doing John you're all set right you understood yep perfect thank you if you need anything just give me a call all right

thank you officer appreciate it thank you I used to give I used to give Pam's number out now I gave yours so they'll be calling you laughs

item number eight is a communication from Kevin Aguirre guiding School Committee Member compensation referred to the committee on January 24th 23.

um I'll invite school committee man Uh Kevin aguiar which I think he might be coming down as a resident of the city of Fall River as opposed to his official duties that being said at this this was referred to the school Committee Action was taken by the the school committee with no action so the the way the the city Charter uh reads now and I do have it uh we have it's the city council's jurisdiction to

increase stipends and there's two different locations there's one of the uh they essentially read the same uh but under the school committee um within 18 months of our term uh if if we increase compensation then it would essentially take effect at the next election so that would give us until July if my math is right or June um to get something voted on if we're looking to get this effective for the

next group that's coming in for the school committee that that being said before I turn over to miss Aggie I did provide a quick sheet in part of some of the conversations that I had so you got the spreadsheet in front of you um part of the conversations that I had with Mr Agate was really trying to figure out um how long ago it was that the school committee actually got a cost of living

adjustment so the city council had always got their Consumer Price Index increases um so Mr agya was kind enough to to get that information so the last increase was in 2001 uh so I essentially went back to some research on what the CPI was historically and I don't know if this is the correct CPI but this is the national average I think we might use Northeast so I don't have the Northeast

numbers but this kind of gives us a flavor or at least a starting point so if we go back to 2002 and I stopped it in 2009 because in 2010 Council Pelletier made a motion to freeze the cost of living adjustments on all elected officials including the mayor in 2010 so if you go back to 2002 7197 that's what school committee members received um and actually I'm off because I probably should have gotten a

2002 number and I didn't so I'm slightly off because you should have had an increase in 2002 but I just took the CIP so it's a 2.3 percent in 2003 2.7 in 2004 3.4 percent 2005 3.2 percent in 2006 2.9 in 2007 3.8 percent in 2008 and then zero percent in 2009 which kind of ties out with the uh the recession on the 9C cuts that took place um if we follow that their salary should

be eight thousand six hundred and eighteen dollars so from my standpoint I think they should be made whole since the city council received the cost of living adjustment in those years so from my standpoint you know this the discussion really should be at the sixteen thousand ninety one dollars and the eight thousand six hundred and eighteen dollars um committee man Aggie I did also

give me some additional information that he wanted to include so I included that for uh for the members of the committee so minimum wage back in uh 2002 was six thousand seventy five cents minimum wage uh currently is fifteen dollars and then he can speak to you know educated pay raises moving forward so with that I will turn it over to Mr aggia thank you very much can you state your name and address of the record

since you're coming in yeah to Crestwood Street Fall River Mass so thank you to The Honorable members of the subcommittee for hearing this um one suggestion as the chair had mentioned I did come I did send this letter me personally as of a city resident not as a member of the school committee so that's one of the meetings it was um looked upon frowned upon I guess by some council is that I didn't contact

the other members of the committee I felt at the time that at being the longest standing member in having a historical perspective on this I chose to do this on my own I mentioned this in public meetings I mentioned it at my fundraisers because I've been advocating over the years both in the school committee city council serving on boards that we need the most qualified people to run and to do the work that's needed

and to take it seriously so that's why I wrote the letter I researched at the time I was looking at ordinances and different things from other communities one of them was in Bristol Warren in the Bristol Warren um Charter or whatever in the ordinances it states right what I put in the letter school committee members will receive compensation for performance of their duties equal to the compensation of town

or city councilors basically so the model that I used was based on something that I saw from another community when I started to look at this I didn't even realize it was that long I know that I feel strongly that you know we should be compensated in similar Fashions I respect the work that the council does but I would hope that the council respects the work that the school committee does

although with different bodies and we have different duties and responsibilities we all work very hard as part-time elected officials so I think the compensation should be the same in my opinion as the chair said we haven't received any compensation increase on the school committee since 2002 that's 20 years and I for one as other members of the committee and just like the council does

he took a vote just today to give compensation increase to the water department folks that I think deserve to get a raise we haven't received any compensation increase in 20 years and that's unheard of in addition to that I'm not sure when the charter was in 2015 or waiting whatever the charter was done the charter also took away the opportunity for benefits health benefits to come to any elected official

further stripping away something that might be beneficial to someone it's going to dedicate their time sacrifices from their family to serve the community so we've actually been stripping away things whereas I think we should be increasing the compensation and desire to get people to serve on the school committee city council or the city boards or anything I think it's high time that we really take a hard look at

this when we look at the minimum wage that the chair talked about at 6.75 cents in 20 2002 if you do the numbers and just start to do some division of the amount of salary based on the minimum wage that would mean we would work 1066 hours per year divided by 52 is around 20 hours a week so in 2002 the school committee was getting minimum wage for 20 hours a week

subsequent to that if we did what it is now with the fifteen dollars at that rate we would only be working nine hours a week for the fifteen dollars an hour if you further take that number of the city council number of the 16091 divided by minimum wage it comes back out to around 20 hours per week so everybody in the everybody has to get minimum wage accordingly you know that's the law now

when you look at the school committee um this money would not affect the city budget in any way because the amount amount of money that's put into the budget is from the schools only so it will have zero cost impact on the city as well as what the chairman talked about being the next term so it's not anybody giving your raise to somebody that's currently working it would start at the next election so anybody out

there that would want to run would know before they take their papers out this is what the salary is going to be and the compensation is going to be some of the other things that I had heard at the um Council I'm just going to hit a couple of those and I know we're trying to be out here by seven according to the chairman and I don't want to offend no

you got as much time as you want just remember it's Lauren's birthday tomorrow okay you want to make sure the um we had talked about some other compensation and the raises like that's a big number you know when you look at it that it's I had made the statement that we were paid 45 of the council when I look at the school budget which I look at very thoroughly we have many people

that have gotten more than a two percent raise or whatever the union is so it's more about the need and the actual facts versus oh we can't give a raise over anything substantial we've given raises more than nine thousand dollars to individuals we've given one season of coaches there's three seasons at the high school or four thousand five hundred dollar raise each season so if you coach three Sports at that rate

you'd be getting around ten or twelve thousand dollars additional on top of it so it's not unheard of just so you know about the school budgets we have one employee that does get they raise based on the CPI and that came out to a six thousand dollar raise for this particular employee so all I'm asking for is that you consider this forward it to the full Council it's going to be

cost neutral and I think it's going to increase the opportunities for us to recruit people to run or compensate those that are serving and dedicated to at least get paid minimum wage so I don't think it's too much to ask and I think it's just the right thing to do I would also say that it should look at what you do in the future so the legislature or us or whoever it's a

very difficult vote when you say well we're going to give a raise and I think that's what happened in 2010 is there was some budget cuts in 29 2009 since then we haven't had those budget cuts but it's never come back up it's a very difficult decision sometimes to put yourself out there and say we're going to give the proper compensation but it's the right thing to do in my opinion that we authorize some pay as

well as you I think the chairman just said to the ordinance says that the man doesn't get a raise the mayor deserves to get a raise like everybody else as well in my opinion no matter who the mayor is it should get listed towards either the CPI index or whatever it is we gave a race to the superintendent every person that I vote on in that school committee I've never once I don't

think in my entire last 10 years given zero percent for 20 years to anybody so everyone's getting fairly compensated based on what they're doing and I use the minimum wage because I think that's an easy one to kind of figure and I just asked for your consideration I'm happy to answer any questions you know as an individual if we need to get more info I'm happy to work with you to get that

as well so before I recognize um Council a little bit the Liberty Jesus um one thing I did want to say was that I think number one I support an equal salary or compensation from the city council to the school committee I know some people may not see it that way but I think when you stop looking at the school committee and looking at their responsibility it's significantly different so we're legislative in nature

so we pass ordinances we approve Appropriations they are almost the executive branch of the school committee um they're dealing with the hiring of the hiring and firing of a superintendent they're dealing with grievances they're dealing with collective bargaining uh items and other contractual agreements across the board so there are times when I was on the school committee it wasn't unheard of

going into negotiations especially with the teachers union being there until three o'clock in the morning several days a week and then leaving there and obviously going going to work so on the legislative side we don't negotiate right we just we look at the contracts after they were negotiated um and we provide an appropriation for it um you know Mr agya's point is as well taken that we're we're at minimum net

School spending right so we're barely getting there right so there's no additional uh impact at least on the city side that would be on the school committee to obviously budget uh that salary increase or that compensation increase for the uh the school committee so I'm fully in support of of making it equal for city council and the school committee to suggest that school committee members are doing

anything less important I would argue that they're probably doing uh more important work than what we're doing on the legislative body uh that does impact education and our students in the future of our city so with that I'll turn it over to council holubidy thank you so I agree with everything you said and historically when this was this came before the not the school committee increase but just on freezing the

salaries when a former counselor Steve Camara is on and it would have passed except he wanted they increased to go all the way back do you remember that yes and then it died because that was too much we couldn't agree to that I think they should be unfrozen everybody else has been unfrozen since then and I'm not saying we should get you know an enormous increase but I did watch your meeting and I appreciate all the

school committee members you know they had they gave their thoughtful opinions on it that most of them and most of the council as well gave their opinion on it and what I heard was you know oh I didn't do this for the money I don't need the salary well that's great we went for office knowing what it was um but I heard you know you have to be able to not meet

the salary to run for office and that's not fair I mean how many of our families are are low income in the school department 70 something percent so we've just greatly limited the the pool of people that can run for office if if um you know what if somebody needs child care or they work at opposite shift of their spouse and or they already work a second job and they would have to give up that

job to you know but they can make more money at the second job I I would agree I think the the work you do is equally as important I I guess I would I would also want to to go back to on on freezing all of the position so I mean it's been frozen since 2010.

the other thing that that bothered me is the the headline of Kevin again wants 100 increase well when you make six thousand dollars 100 increases six thousand dollars and you just said we give coaches and not taking away anything that they do but four thousand dollars right for a season um so I mean I think this what we have severely limits the you know the pool of people that have the ability to run for

office it takes a lot of time a lot of effort if you prepare for a meeting um there's an awful lot of aggravation that that comes with it it's you know it it's part of the job I think we all do it for the right reasons but we should also be compensated as such with that I yield thank you any other discussion Council proposal yeah I mean I think the only thing I have to say is

and this is a rhetorical statement the fact that we requested some sort of communication from the school committee about this and we were told to watch a video which I think is is silliness I think we requested some sort of Correspondence to say this is where the school committee stands on the on the issue and I got a YouTube link which I think is just blows my mind but that's here no

there at this point I think the committee made some of them made their points clear of where they stand I think there are some points about looking at the entire pictures boards and all that but I think right now we're focusing on this and this only um I know the school committee's salaries are paid through this school committee salaries are paid to the school department budget but my question to the

chair is is that count toward net School spending at all uh yeah it is right it is it's currently the 7100 times six so whatever that comes out to forty five thousand is counted towards Mexico okay that's all I have I yields it actually makes us like an employee when you look at the budget you would almost look at it like as if we're an employee like everyone else the problem

is is that when it's convenient we took away the benefits of being an employee and I'm just trying to get that back to the same order any further discussion now so this is just on as a communication what kind of action can you take um I'd make a recommendation submit something back to the full Council to update the ordinance yeah I'll make that motion what exactly is it I I think that they

it should be the same and I also think that the salary should be unfrozen all right so the motion that's made by Council of Liberty is to bring the school committee um stipend up to the city council stipend up sixteen thousand ninety one dollars and to unfreeze the cost of living adjustment and tie it to a consumer price index moving forward which way to include can you bifurcate those

because I think they're two different issues and I wouldn't want one to lose on the other so boy I agree with what you're saying but I think it should be two if I may to say we do the one that we would get the same way and the second one to say that we'd lift the cap so there's two different debates so yeah the first first motion uh is to make these Google mini stipend equal to

the city council stipend of Sixteen thousand ninety one dollars um motion was made is there a second can I ask a point of clarification yep so this goes forward to full Council for debate or does it is going to come back in the form of a proposed ordinance how does this how do we proceed with this um I well I think it would probably be a debate and then um I don't know that'd be a good

question I think uh might have to come back yeah okay all right with that case I'll second the motion so the motion was made a second discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so voted most carries unanimously second motion all all of the elected salaries so the motion was to unfreeze the cost of living adjustment for all uh school committee city council and the mayor tied to a consumer price index nope

no motion was made is there a second point of clarification does so the F and again you would know this better than I would um when it was frozen did that just apply to Mayor city council school committee that not apply to anything else no just just those three okay I guess my only my only concern devil's advocate here is if we if we go forward on freezing it and it changes

are we going to understand the budgetary impact of what that's going to be so it's going to be tied to the Consumer Price Index so every year we would get that and we're not retroactive I don't want it to be registered no no no yeah just moving forward so it'll only be the CIP that will drive yeah so this if that would vote it on I would say that this you know the CIP would be

for fy24 okay because in the schools we actually do the following year even so if this was to take effect in the January of 24 in June or whatever the time is that the CPI comes out then our people get it for July one of the next fiscal year so it's not like impacting you in the moment in the next year okay and again the same process would apply I would have to go to committee it'll

probably come back down for an ordinance and then again okay that I'll yield and I'll second the motion as well motion was made and seconded discussion seeing none all those in favor aye post so voter motion carries unicely chairman mayor I want to just take the opportunity to thank you and also as I was listening to people talking about this I did hear as we all know about the boards and

commissions and I think that that was something that I did speak to the mayor about relative to we have to look at the big picture as well so I would just throw that on not for this but in the future because we do have a lot of boards and commissions that some get paid some that don't so if we're going to do something logically well thought out in a methodical way for like I think

you should look at all of them we have too many boys in my opinion clarification though when I what I heard the mayor say at the meeting was he was going to put a committee together to do that yeah he I heard a lot of different things from him but in my personal conversation with him was that he wasn't necessary he just got nervous I think right away about oh it's a big race but

I think when we look at the facts it's different my personal conversation with him was that my argument to him was I think everything needs to be looked at Mr Mayor and that it would include all of your boards all of your commissions because I sit home and watch him there's no Quorum for a meeting I was there no Quorum for a meeting when you don't have the either qualified people or you're

paying people like this so all I'm asking you for is just as a citizen to throw that on the table as well so that we like in this case we didn't react I didn't react to the heroin who was trying to make an issue of it I did it very but I did it very much I kept quiet I came to the proper channel to do it in the proper way all I'm asking you for is

if you do that with the boards and commissions in a thoughtful way I think you'll come to a good resolution yeah Council Pereira had submitted um a resolution that we review all the and it's in in this committee review all the boards so in in that we can have the same discussion about salary so thank you all very much have a great night thank you thank you sorry for being five

minutes late Lauren but it's really the Chairman's fault thank you all right seeing Noah for the business they're supposed to be reviewed oh I will say for just for the record uh so it will take a two-thirds vote uh to move that so we would need six votes on that so that's part of the gym to move both uh I don't know not the CPI but the compensation so uh we would probably just need legal

council opinion on on the CPI so seeing no other further business before us there are motion adjourned can I ask oh good yes sorry more um so this conversation as far as that's the two things that were just stated will probably appear hopefully the earliest at these meeting in April okay so that's April 11.

of course I you know I like to do my homework console come on I yield motion to adjourn motion germ was made is there a second all those in favor aye okay now which earns thank you

thank you

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