4.9.2024 Fall River City Council

overy hey hey

the city council and school committee will come to order clerk will call the RO Council kadine Dion here har here Kilby here Perera here ponti here Roso Samson here president Camaro here before we begin I just want to let people know that councelor poo had reached out he has a prior commitment at his school today that he could not make it um pursu to the open meeting law any person may

make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting to any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or un perceived by those present and not deemed ackn and permissible will the co call the order please call

the I understand there's a presentation that you like to

present

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good evening everyone so we are here tonight first of all thank you for having us we're here tonight to present our fy2 uh fall Public Schools budget um we actually um I will open it up and then I'll let uh the wingman over here take over for the stuff of the budget um this year's budget was very different than previous years's um with Sr uh funds expiring uh we needed to um and we

have been our school committee has been very liberal about um providing uh layers of support to our schools I think that we have built a strong infrastructure but um we were very clear with our uh principles and our department heads that um this year we needed to make thoughtful intentional decisions about um creating a budget that was sustainable uh we had uh we have 116 positions that we are rolling

over into our operating budget therefore the only and that includes positions that are uh compliance driven we said that the only new positions that we would be adding to the budget would be compliance driven so special needs positions or ESL positions that we have to provide services to uh for students and then the other positions are positions that we had added um uh during uh with Esser funds and that we are now

absorbing we feel confident that um we are able to sustain that budget um but to um to add any additional positions than what we already have would be irresponsible because we are also negotiating with all nine of our uh units we want to make sure that we are creating something that we can sustain without having to make hard decisions for Staffing later on um I will say that we still have some positions that we

have not filled all year um that we are still working we have been hiring all year long we continue to look for we have some of those hard to fill positions special ed um uh ESL positions math science a few um but we are in a much better place with Staffing then we have been in the past um we believe that this budget 100% at school spending you know we know that um SOA funds uh we

still have three more years of that but certainly um that is those extra funds are to get us to the appropriate formula right um once that um we um those seven years are over six years because of covid then we have to make sure that our budget is sustainable right so and we have to start that process so um our principles haven't had to make those hard decisions or they haven't heard no

in a long time and this was the year that we said we have a wish list um we put those positions on hold and we said we would wait and see but we had to prioritize Sr positions as well as knowing that we are negotiating with our our units so with that said um this budget reflects uh the needs of our district but taking into account all the layers of support that we have put in

place the infrastructure that we have put in place for success and we believe that we can run our schools without um impacting Staffing later on that hello everybody thanks for having me so this this slide is just the enr enrollment slide this provides you where uh the differen is from where we were a year ago so these figures are from October 1st so when you look at October 1st of 2022 versus October 1st 2023

we're up 177 students uh districtwide how many Kevin sorry 177 so as the superintendent referenced the student Opportunity Act uh was came into play in November of 2019 and was brought in in law um uh IT addresses uh various areas of the foundation budget formula uh that were underfunded and so um the areas are the low income category uh the special ed category umal services and uh

benefits the slide here uh in front of you is for Chapter 70 and so as you can see the last uh five years of Chapter 70 it it's gone from 130 million to 188 million where we are this year in 2024 the 2025 Governor's budget is set for Chapter 70 for 202 m121 291 an increase of 14, 96814 or 75% from last year the required local contribution for uh the last five years you can see that

it's increased from just over 31 million uh to 38 million where we are this year the 20 25 Governor's figure uh is just under 41 million at 40, 7195 a nearly $2.2 million increase uh or 5.7% over last year's figure net School spending so net School spending again is the minimum required spending uh for the school district uh since 2020 we've gone from 162 just over 162 million to 2024 where we are this

year to 226 million uh the budget for 2025 and the governor's budget is uh just under 243 million at 242 84 296 or just over $16 million increase uh 7.2% from last year uh the indirect cost agreement um it's the agreement that we have with the city that outlines the costs that um sit on the city Side uh and and outlines everything that gets reported in the end of the year report rep um if there are

ever any discrepancies with the uh with the costs that are being provided uh we can rewrite the agreement and or modify it with the city and if we have a dispute uh we potentially have to bring the dec in order to review it costs costs that are that are Cityside costs that are eligible for net School spending are the per pupil administrative cost uh snow snow costs associated with the schools that the

city the city does on our behalf uh retirement contributions Health life and dental uh legal expenses associated for the schools property liability insurance and the assessments of school choice uh charter school and special ed costs that are not eligible for net School spending are debt uh ban interest school crossing guards uh the regional assessments for diamond or Bristol agie uh purchase of land or buildings and

costs that for equipment that are over $150,000 Transportation so transportation is not eligible for net School spending but this slide provides you the last four years of actuals and transportation you can see that it's gone from 7.5 million 13.2 million uh the numbers in 2020 and 21 are low and that was due to covid uh during those times we spent spent less money in transportation health insurance uh you

can see from 2019 to 2023 that the insurance ranges from uh around 21 million to almost 25 million uh this this portion here is just the spending on operate for operational we also have health costs that are on the grant side and our evolving funds that total about 1.6 million so that would be an addition to this so I'm not going to read this whole slide but it's it's the town's duties to

maintain schools and they they have they're required to provide transportation to the children of the schools so in maintaining schools so um the for the schools are required to uh fund all projects that are under $150,000 and so uh that's that's the threshold and so um anything over $150,000 is typically uh required to be funded by the city and you know in typically required to come to you to ask

for uh for the city to fund them but over the last several years with some of the with this additional funding and through the work with work of the school committee we've been able to fund many many projects over the last several years on our end uh that are over the threshold and so this this slide just provides you with uh a list of stuff for this year um and so the dery athletic

fields we've we've we've spent about $5 million to date and we've still got about $412,000 love to spend on the fields um last night the school committee uh approved the Appropriations that the city council had provided to the schools and as part of that these additional projects were added uh that that were added last night and so we have four playgrounds totaling about $900,000 the talit uh Middle School

we're going to the anticipated cost is $550,000 for an elevator uh RM RPA and elevator which is anticipa of $650,000 work at 501 uh Plumbing electrical and the ceilings anticipated of $500,000 and two chillers at Sylvia and Spencer bordon totaling about $400,000 this slide provides you with net School spending and where we've been the last four years so this is just representative of where of what the dec

has certified for the last several years as you can see we've Fallen just short each each year but uh with through your cooperation and with school committee we've been able to with the city council and the school committee we've each and every year in the spring we've gotten the funds that are needed to to meet that's School spending it's just a quick update on Esser so uh We've we've had three

allocations for Esser the three allocations total just over $61 million uh Esser one Sr 2 have been fully spent as of 93022 and 93023 uh we are in the process of spending sr3 uh I believe we've got about 10 million or so left in sr3 at this point um and that Grant ends 93024 to date we've spent uh we spent money on prek teachers empowered professionals Community facilitators professional development technology

trans transportation and HVAC work districtwide so the budget that we're proposing to you is an operating budget of 175 5, 7746 which is 100% of the governor's budget the proposed Transportation budget uh is just under 11 million 10,897 280 and these are the POS the positions that the superintendent referenced and so um we have about 124 Physicians 116 in operating eight in Grants many of

these are Sesser positions that are now being funded through through operations and through the grants uh just as a point a point of clarifications the you'll see the 33 and the 0.04 and those that is because Esser is going to fund positions through September and so because they're funding positions through September uh that portion of the salary is being paid through Esser the remainder is being paid through

operations and through the grants thank you that kby I'll open it up to questions question I have jumped out at me a bit is the net School spending so adding up for 19 to 20123 the current year $10 million short no so it's what are the my question is what are the I mean we we have to actually pay that eventually right and you do and you do and so this is just when the dec

certifies the report typically in January or February the this is where the amount where we were left where they left off and so but the city has provided the funds immediately thereafter oh so we're going to be caught up yes it's it's caught up very good that's the only question I have thank you six thank you Mr President so I know there's a number of principles here uh got a a couple of questions here but

um in terms of you preparing your budget going into this coming fiscal year is there any specific projects or any specific needs that the individual schools have brought to your attention ention that you feel that you're not able to commit to at this time and if so why um I think that we have ongoing projects such as the um Robert elad's um RPA that you you're seeing um I think that we highlighted um purchasing an

elevator for that building we are making some investments in that building um we have to uh we can't do all at once that would be a multi-million dollar project but certainly um we are using those funds funds the appropriation came in um and we're using those funds to to fund some of those um uh projects uh also a talit that's not ADA Compliant we are putting an an elevator in there so that

we can make them ADA Compliant we are doing some heavy investment in that building in regards to air quality we're using Sesser funds for that so I think that um we have I think we're in a very good shape with physical buildings um we are um uh we have been keeping up with our building so you look at Watson we kind of rebuilt it from the inside out right um so uh those large projects that

we can maintain on our own we've been doing them uh slowly um I I feel like we're in a good place uh the playgrounds we are making as we um rehab playgrounds we're making them ADA Compliant um so you're seeing some heavy investment on some of those where obviously we can't do every single school all at once but we are being strategic as doing North End South End North End South End and

looking at the as they're aging out so um I do think that we are proposing uh we are um keeping up with our buildings there's always there's always going to be work that needs to be done okay in in terms of more of a direct question is in terms of the schools in itself from the principal perspective is there anything that from dery to to Henry Lord whatever school that their principles have

brought to the administration or the school committee that you feel you're not getting enough funding for or needs that you don't feel you're able to meet those principal requests I think that the um requests that came that are on the wish list that I uh alluded to at the beginning uh are Staffing uh additional staff uh I I feel like we've sta we've added a lot we've added 523 positions since co uh with Sr funds Etc

and each year we've um many of them were PA professionals School adjustment councils for mental health support Etc so we've added positions and we can't just keep adding positions right so some of we've prioritized some of those I think that anytime uh we've come to the committee to ask for compliance-driven positions for special ed one to1 Pais or uh special ed teachers we've um you know

said yes to but um most of the things on the all of the things on the wish list are additional staff so somebody might want an additional VP or might want additional School adjustment counselor I think that um that wish list is is uh on hold right now while we go through negotiations while we um you know uh Shore up everything that needs to be prioritized so you feel more so you're

going to request for more help more Staffing Resources from these schools and and and the reason I'm asking this is because I recognize that the school department has utilized just like the city has one time grant funding over the last couple of years to hire people and that's a scary proposition and so what is the school department at and I know I've watched a couple meetings where it's been discussed that

you're going to start weeding off that so by the end of what 2025 so that's that's this year that that's this year so we've when you say weed it off the only positions essentially that we have here that are new is potential Staffing at uh a building to to be determined um and we have compliance which is very very minimal it's I believe it's about 30 in total or 35 in total um the rest

is all the positions from the erer funds that are being moved over and it's strategic because we have three more years of student Opportunity Act and so we're you're not going to see this whole scale addition of positions in in the next several years unless they are required unless they are compliance related and that's essentially pretty much it um but you know so we strategically knew that those funds were

going away and we knew that we had the funds for six year a six-year period and so we knew that we were going to have to in year four essentially bring all the positions over to be able to sustain them over the full six year period and you'll be able to sustain it without the grant going after this year abely Absolut without layoffs without any decrease in staff that's why we're being

fiscally responsible right we we want to make sure that we're only adding what we can sustain all right and my last question is I noticed that in your presentation while everybody likes to hear this and this is great especially when rep say this and people at the State House say we're giving more money for Education we're seeing $16.2 million of additional money coming to the school

department from the state most likely this year what does that mean for the city's contribution to the increase so it's about two $2.2 million so $2.2 million increase okay and what is I know the city City's going up next for their present is that correct all right so I'll reserve my questions on how we're going to pay for that um my and then dery I know that it's a brand new building um

sad to see that uh you're going through a principal change there uh but I can just say that um what is the plans what have you done whether it's through Mr Pacho or within your operating budget have you done to try to make sure that we maintain that building after we spent all that money building it I think we have uh staffed that building uh with um security custodial staff so that we are

uh building the grounds um as a district so that we are able to maintain our buildings I agree with you that's a beautiful building we've spent a lot of money on that building it needs to look just as pristine today and five years from now and 10 years from now um so we I I think that would be in Staffing as well as one of the things that we've

done as a district is we've um made a concered effort to really keep up with we we haven't done that in the past I will say and we've really been working cycling creating a cycle so that we can maintain our buildings properly so I think so I guess my question is is there like a fiveyear maintenance plan is there a 10-year maintenance plan is there a 15year maintenance plan on that

building

hello everyone um So the plan uh we the first thing we did um even before the school opened officially was to hire a facility manager so there's a person who works at dery operating the plant so to speak whether it's the systems in the building whether it's keeping up with all of the warranty items or just making sure that all repairs are done within a timely fashion that wasn't available to

us before um that was put in place when we originally designed the building and um the person we hired is a 30 to 35e veteran of MEP which is which is the main portion of a building the operating systems but also has a working knowledge of everything else um so that's the first piece that's we've never had and he also um does work work with the rest of our staff in other buildings we do

have um a percentage plan sort to speak so we're spending roughly 1% to 2% of the overall Budget on maintenance um changing things like boilers before they break down so we're able to get the best prices the newest technology when we're not under the gun to change a boiler so that work is being done um regularly and um we obviously the capital plan from the city you've seen that we update

that as we go along so as far as a maintenance plan on the building there is a prescribed uh timing of all of our equipment whether it be fire alarms elevators those are all on service plans um with companies most of the companies that install the work at dery we're very interested in low biders on most of the work we wanted done which is a nice consistent piece that we haven't always

had when we built the building and turned it over um so we've maintained that piece for consistency what do you think the longevity of that building is now it's a 50-year building um which is all construction 50 yeah it's a 50-year building with all construction today that's usually what they're building for um the school is is wellb built um and it is um operationally sound so it it

it's efficient um the bills of dery high school we somewhere around 75 to $880,000 on electric bill for instance we're running in the 40s um right now so it's proving itself in a lot of ways um it's a comfortable building it is environmentally sound um so I I think we're in very good shape at that high school okay thank you I yield Mr President thank you to C good evening I

bet you're glad this is your last budget I'm not going to lie so I just have a couple of questions um one being in your presentation uh 251 South Main Street um that used to be a um Atlantis thank you the Atlantis so and that we're now renting why wouldn't that plumbing and Electrical uh be the burden of the landlord as opposed to the school department having to make to pay for

that so the the building the work that we put in in the RFP um when we were looking for the building was to um do certain things through the process that we would take over um the ownership of that building or the stewardship of that building in the RFP we spe we specifically said we needed the lower level which is ground level and then the first floor to operate our

prek above that we did not have any specific plans for the building um but we knew that we needed certain things done in the in the areas of above so we did floors we did um some uh work within the walls that we needed to do so some of the plumbing has already been changed on the upper floors but not knowing the age group we didn't want to put in fixtures that were not going to be

appropriate so we left the fixtures out so that work is basically fixtures um maybe some tile work or or some kind of um gimson board or or something on the walls so we left the bathrooms unfinished until we know what we're doing with the building and um there may be some other incidentals uh the elevator is obviously finished they're actually putting the AC in as we speak for the lower levels and then we'll be

uh doing that work on the on the upper levels uh there's been two sections of roof replaced under the contractor under the original owner there's a lot of work that the original owner did but he did it to the specs that we gave them so there's some asphalt work that that a finished coat of asphalt we didn't want done because the work was done late in the season and we didn't you know we

didn't want we wanted everything to settle it was a lot of work done in a short amount of time so now in the spring we're going to we do have that work that money was held in escro um so it's still part of the original deal with um with RDA and then my next question I noticed that um I looked at you a bit at your FY 25 Budget on the computer um under expense

reductions buildings rentals and leases is down $2.9 million um and that's with adding this building on as a lease so with So the plan is in FY this year in FY 24 we're going to pay the building off are you going to pay it off yep okay my next question because this is a bone of contention um while the rate payers and and and the elderly are looking at a 23% increase in their water

bills the school department is looking at a reduction of 12 and a half% on the CSO water sewer CSO charge I don't understand how that can happen so it's so the amount that was budgeted last year was over budgeted a bit n FY 24 and so the that's what's being reflected this year so you're basing it on overd of last year not looking at the 23% increase when we initially budgeted

the year for FY 24 I was looking at what was being was being charged previously and it was higher than I had anticipated so with that in mind I had budgeted a little higher to be sa to be safe to ensure that there was enough money there um and now we've had another full year of uh water and sewer and I had to reduce the amount for next year so that probably is yet to be determined

as to where that will actually fall I would assume y we'll see we'll see okay and then the last thing I have is I went through because there's been a lot of discussion lately about solar panels and like the city the school department really hasn't put in a lot of solar panels is that a fair statement so dery high school has a good size array over the uh Fieldhouse we have solar at four schools besides that

one um talbet Morton cus and Sylvia I always forget Sylvia okay because but those are all those are power purchase agreements so the only system we own is Morton the rest are under agreement so the city gets a pilot a payment in L taxes for the for the roof space and the school department gets the benefit of a lower rate of electricity charged and they are liable for the maintenance

and everything repairs all of that stuff the exception of Morton okay because I know when I looked at it it's a $3.4 million expense for the school department just for electricity which is incredible and um you know a 25% reduction would save you $855,000 that you could put towards retention of Staff maintenance of buildings Etc so are you thinking longterm or of of installing more solar panels um you know I was

thinking about the dery parking lot similar to BCC if something like that could be done and and so the age of the roofs um some of our newer buildings are turning 20 25 years old so the life expectancy the roof life expectancy is over um so we're going to have to replace those roofs before we do some of that work but we would like to have um a solar array on every building you know

was the ultimate goal and then as far as as the canopies um again a big expense for the district we wouldn't want to own them we again we would want Power purchase agreements um but I think that the parking lot the upper parking lot on Ray Street would be ideal for a system the other parking lot um is you know may not be as as uh lucrative for a Solar

Company to come in and and want to do that but the the upper parking lot is definitely a possibility just square footage wise it wouldn't make as much sense absolutely yes okay thank you with that I yield thank you SE five C vice president PR I was going to ask questions about the utility but I think God Michelle did a great job on that and I know that some

of the roofs are too old and it won't hold the load of solar panels but um I'm big proponent of solar panels as well the other thing that I find we spend a lot of money on is transportation now I know that there's going to be some moves around the city try to get more community schools or get kids closer to the school in which their NE you know in the neighborhoods that

they reside in doing that that will help us with Transportation correct so I should anticipate that the transportation budget is going to decrease or should I not the ultimate goal is to stabilize it okay um because we've been increasing a little bit every year so the ultimate goal would be to stabilize some of the moves that we're going to make should make a difference in the amount of roots we have

um does a combination of things that happen with Transportation one of them is um the we have a time constraint of students on a bus so sometimes a bus is not full but we've run out of time because the door-to-door service is expensive it takes a lot of time to do that so what we're trying to do is work um in in redoing some of those you know uh runs with the with the contract that

we you know we have um a new Transportation director uh Deb cavalo and she's done a lot of work work so far and it's only been a short amount of time so we we have high hopes and not that she has all the weight of her shoulder on her shoulders but she does really she's here so that's she understands um it's it's a it's an enormous undertaking to make sure that

all of that stuff works but it it where goal is is to stabilize and then we can look at at cost-saving measures well I'll tell you the ca that I get relative to transportation from constituents is that people see lots of buses going by with just a few kids on them and they Wonder instead of H you know us doing a contract for a big school bus why not

smaller Vans if that would be the way to go so I'm sure that that's something she could she is looking but if you figure Vans are costing us Vans could cost us $500 a day and a bigger bus is around that or less so the cost effectiveness of Vans sometimes we have no choice but it really isn't what we want to do what we want to do is make the roots more

efficient so that we can put more kids on a little crazy because we were told if you use less water you're still going to pay more and you're saying if I drive a school bus that's going to do more wear and tear on my roads it's going to cost me more gas if I use a van that's going to be less expensive on gas than a bus better wear and tear it's going to

cost us more more for the van wow what a society we live in but I will say that uh last Thursday I did have the opportunity to go to High School uh to the theater uh camera studio uh with a veteran and on our way back from the studio to try to find our way out although students did did give us directions I guess we weren't very good at following them and after doing

10,000 steps around the school uh he looked at me and he said you know I'm really impressed at the cleanliness of the school and we were in the middle of um students changing classes and they were extremely respectful and he was all dressed in his dress blue marine dress blues and some stopped to ask him you know who he was Etc um but I was very impressed and I have been to the hair

salon and for facials and I would suggest that everybody go because it's a way it's inexpensive and it's a great way for the kids to know that you care about what they're doing so and now we went off subject so the council president's going like this so thank you very much with that I Mr President thank you councelor Mr P I have a question on the solar panels is

it a lease with the ones that we don't own how many years 20 years so it's a 20 year lease and the pilot is is 20 years also and then they come and remove them and see what the f holds and our choice would be to either have them removed or at that point negotiate a new contract if the technology is is so much better that and they would put another array on

the roof thank you Mr Pico for clarifying that Council SE six Council pting thank you do you uh does a city owe you more money for net School spending for FY 23 no so the last transfer that we have has uh committed you to 100% of net School spending from the prior year thank you just a shot in the do do you guys owe the city anyone money for 2023 nope to bad I throw it out

there I know Kevin I know you're sharing at pencil try my best all right there be no further questions counc C1 counc kadim thank you um thank you for the presentation I appreciate it it's just got a couple of quick questions so the first question I actually asked last year and I'm not sure that I received a response to this but the trend seems to be the same way so just looking at slide

two for the student enrollment so it seems like every grade level with the exception of the high school has increased um So based on the conversation we had last year and and the reason I asked the question is I I would have anticipated that there should have been an increase in enrollment at at the high school given that you have private schools um and and people making that transition so can you I guess speak

to the loss of 68 students since the the trend is continuing and is it is there a concern in terms of uh student services or you know what's what's driving that Trend um I actually this was the October 1st enrollment numbers and I know that dery is uh near near in capacity so they have uh increased so we will get you the the numbers from October 1st as well as

the numbers from today okay um I will send all of you um first thing tomorrow morning perfect so we we've seen so showing an increase absolutely um and then the I I guess I forget what slide it was but maintaining schools um so you've you've listed a number of projects that the school department has undertaken uh for Extraordinary maintenance so I see the RPA had the elevator but didn't we have Windows as

well was that is that on there where are we that's going on right now so that the msba project is going to start we actually have a kickoff meeting sometime um either this week or next week I'm not positive and that's an $8 million um so we received the approval I know we signed off on it yes yes so that'll be starting shortly and when do you think that's that's going to start I think the

project itself um once the design we're almost at I think we're 80% on pretty close to that uh the window lead time is about 16 weeks yeah from the time that we do make that um official I would say they'll start um the construction of the the size of the building and and the complexity of of doing it um with students inside we're going to do one side of the building at a time so they

set up scaffolding and do that one side so I guess um whatever side they they start on uh should happen uh late late September October and they'll work right through the winter on the project and then my final question that I have that hasn't already been answered um is the indirect cost agreements I know we've been talking about this I think Kathy Andis was here and now I know Seth been here going on his second

contract he's he's already bragging that he's on his second contract so um so that's at least four years that we've been talking about an indirect cost agreement where where do we stand with the I guess the renegotiation of the indirect cost agreement still working on it we we we've met several times and still working on four years later do we have any anticipation as to uh when we we're going to have that wrapped

up we we've had conversations with the mayor and his team so hopefully soon is there is there a a sticking point or no we just there we're we're we're trying to get to an agreement that works for both sides and we're still kind of working out the logistics that's pretty much it so ask again in four years no it'll be done within four years next year we be will'll be good hopefully all right

all right I mean if I may the council makes a good point are we making progress significant progress are we not making any progress are we close to no we're making progress okay but your definition of progress and my definition of progress are two different things even mean their definition I think our definition might it could be the administration you we got figure out which Administration we're talking about

I'm sure they it's not for me to deter but hopefully we can have an indirect cost agreement because I think it's just important to understand um on top of you know what's going to be considered and allowed for you know the the city's contributions moving forward and I and as a as a city council that does the the appropriation for the uh schools we just want to make sure that we understand

that as well so that's that's all uh with that I yield thank you thank you coun deuty no further question thank you for coming down you can take your seats on the city I believe going to make this presentation motion to adjourn we're not the city is going to come down

are you going to start with the IND question

I we met I don't there's nothing we are looking to change significantly on either side so I'm not sure what the please speak into the microphone gonna say something because no one can hear what you're saying and if you want to do your presentation first and we can get into the questions

afterwards

I see we have a

picture feels like high school

again oh just did it just go on just went on so let's try it

again not sure is some yeah we'll get someone to come out of here was working

earlier I think it's just

the on button there we go look at that trolley so I think that's y uh bring your bring it back up I don't know where did it go down here oh do you need that

okay

thank so as you can see I put um my new trolley up I know there's a lot of excitement about it so I just kind of wanted to talk about the budget process we start the budget process in December with all sending out all of our pre-budget meeting um all to all our department heads and then through through December into February we have a lot of budget estimates are developed we do a lot of

meetings with department heads and February through March um we continue all of those meetings as they're finalizing their budgets and then we present to a very draft preliminary budget um which is today to the in the joint meeting and then in June well in may we will um submit it and in June probably start our budget hearings and again this is uh if we can build this bridge I guess we can build a budget

so um I wanted to talk about it's a really it's a balancing act and this year we are working with the governor's projected right now last year at this time we had the house budget um which we don't have which hopefully we will get soon but I wanted to talk about how um a large portion of our money available deres from our state aid property and um local Revenue fees we have to balance

all of our taxpayer dollars the state aid we have all of these mandated expenditures we're required to meet net School spending we have pension requirements Healthcare we have debt payments and we have these fixed costs of insurance utilities Waste Management as you know we have always have infrastructure costs um roads water sewer and all of this we want to stay fiscally responsible but we want to also manage

reserves I just wanted to talk about something that I feel is positive and um and I did put all of you should have on your um table that the MMA has um written a joint uh letter to all of the legislators supporting the um empowerment act and this empowerment act would raise um have the ability where we could raise the lodging tax um six to 7% add another quarter of a percent um to

so a full 1% to the meals tax and this is where the elderly exemption that we've talked about in Prior meetings allows an increase um to the amount above the current $500 and cola for property tax exemptions which we've also put forward and that we've um sent down to the council prior to the um empowerment because we know we don't want to just wait on them again we with the assessors

and the finance office we have looked at um increasing the asset limits and increasing the um income limits which would actually make this more make more people Avail make it more available so we want to increase this opportunity we want to put this forward and include this in our 25 budget um and also then increasing this the cola every year so this will then keep going up so we've built that into our budget

um this year and again the board of assessors is in full support of this as well so the priorities on our budget are we want to continue to enhance our city services Clean safe spaces obviously education we want um we know enrollment is increasing Public Safety we are doing very well there the crime is down um 2 3.6% and there's a decrease in overdoses we want to continue to enhance our

healthare stable Workforce and we want to increase opportunities for tourism and Business Development um as well as housing and again the city does a very good job and we're going to continue to do that and looking for all kinds any grants and air marks we want to keep also improving affordable housing so part of this is is this um the book mobile I put up here our new trolley and that's a picture of the

mobile vaccine clinic and that mobile vaccine clinic is actually keeping kids and getting them in school quicker and our EMS is um running that program so we had a lot of pressures on our budget we have substantial increase required in our local appropriation for Education our inflation has stayed high for more than two years and trash and recycling costs keep increasing we have a

competitive labor market and a shortage of qualified workers and we have high debt payments that we need to reduce to increase our stabilization fund Rising pension costs at 6.8% and then they're going to 7 a half% currently for the following year and again always Rising healthare so in our assumptions right now we're working with the governor's recommended budget we have a projected

decrease in local receipts of three and a half% and we are including the dery debt exclusion of 5.16 million certain vacancies that are existing are being reviewed and we may leave them open and unfunded and our operating expenses to to meet the needs of departments we've included theirs capital projects have been removed and the intent is to fund with other sources of revenue our preliminary budget is 372

million it's an increase of 14.7 million or 4.1% from 24 our Surplus Revenue retained for the short term we're funding the diamond debt with that and new budget includes funding education at 100% of net School spending and it's a 6.7% increase we are looking to do a more on adding additional debt for this next fiscal year and I just wanted to kind of go over um this is our aggregate debt outstanding for a school

and um the general fund and this is this will be included in your big U budget book as we always have but I just wanted to to lay out that we don't have any capacity and this is without long-term and other pieces that we still have on short term that we will need to long term that until 2033 you don't see where you can fit in just that whole 6 and a

half million that they're projecting our payment to be and again another major major pressure on our budget is our pension and you can see where the pension is increasing three and a half million in FY 26 and steadily climbing to over 4 million by fiscal 28 on the positive side I wanted to notate that we had um 15.5 million of free cash certified this year and it's significantly that increase is due to

investment income actuals coming in at 3 million over budget turn Backs from vacant positions mostly in police averaging around um 25 open positions in Patrol prudent spending um and we had F and fire turned back about 500,000 and based on our audit the city was over our total revenues by 5.3 million and our total expenditures we were under by 9.8 million so again we have invested Ed we

changed our investment policy and we are on track to exceed budget investment um Revenue again but we know that that will be tapering off as our cash flows from our Opa money will be being spent and I just wanted to kind of um talk about this the the mayor did mention that um we did get an A3 stable rating so this is the first time that we've been upgraded to stable and these

are the other Gateway cities that are you know considered our peers and I wanted to show how you know where our debt is and compared and this is fiscal 22 because that's where the information is but where our debt is and where our stabilization and where our free cash is and it's it's pretty daunting I mean this is why we and we've been doing a really good job the last two years in 23

and then I feel we're doing um on track to do again in 24 but this just shows that in order to get up to that you know A2 or A1 rating we need to you know have more in our reserves and and know reduce and to reduce our debt so this just shows where um the money goes and so this is our the revenue the biggest portion of our revenue is our education net of

Assessments and the second largest revenue item is our real estate taxes um net of abatements small piece but still very significant is our local receipts of 20.4 million and we have about just under 8 million of our indirects that come back to us through our Enterprise funds and our general government like um you know ugga state aid is about 28.3 million and this just goes over um a

large overview of our draft of our the resources that we are projecting in the budget and our expenditures um again education is over just over half of our budget with Public Safety um um is the next largest piece but not too far behind is uh our retirement and our health insurance expenditures so that's what I have I tried to keep it kind of short and sweet for now again it's a draft and we will

be getting into more details as we finalize the budget and bring you counc eight coun Samson just have a a couple of quick questions how many how much money have we used to close this onetime funding this year how many money how yeah how much money have we used to close the budget like to fix the budget with onetime money for fiscal 25 yeah so we are budgeting to use one and half million of

um 1.8 million of um free cash which we will I mean um of arpa which we plan on utilizing that to evaluate uh projects and capital projects to use as we have to secure that money and we have uh a million dollars of free cash we know that the diamond payment um for the debt is going to be over $800,000 okay and then how much of this increase of the 14 million increase is

one time so if I look at the trash that's an increase that's continuously going to happen until we put something in place to stabilize what we're going to do with our trash but I I feel that we had some onetime increases this year that may not be next year such as like the fire department um their raises is there do we continuously going to see an increase like this of 14 like are we

looking at projection so the significant amount of that increas is education in education and we've only used so on this one time is 2.8 million is only that we use onetime funding in this budget great all right that y thank you thank you C Cy good evening good evening so let's start with um on the elderly exemptions um what's included in the asset limit again just for people out there who are listening to your

increasing um I mean the details of the asset limit yeah um it's I don't have all the details like but I know that it's like your bank your savings accounts um bank accounts I'd have to get the exact detail of what's included I don't have the application handy I should have social security on the next page you uh mentioned affordable housing what do we what are the plans for affordable housing moving

forward I know that we're going to continue to try to the mayor's wants to continue to look for more afford housing opportunities and I don't have all the details on that sure um so as you know um CDA um has a lot of programs where it tries to bring to bear federal funds uh in order to offset the cost of housing or help people with housing um in terms of uh Partnerships in the city um you

know there are constantly you know meetings happening in Government Center with with homelessness Advocates um other folks that are thinking about sort of every step in that housing issue that we have whether it's people who are homeless or people who are um struggling to to make ends meet um and you know just the issue of of you know rents going up and prices going up and and and that sort of thing um so those

conversations are are being had pretty much all the time uh in terms of efforts to make housing more affordable um I think in addition to um CDA there there's a number of things that I think are being discussed and it would be premature to to try to just put those things out there um obviously councelor Pont uh has made some tremendous recommendations uh about things he's thinking about uh so there's a lot of

ideas out there it just comes down to okay how do we fund them how do we put them into the into practice um and there's some some pretty smart people talking about those things and trying to make a difference uh I don't know that at this point we have anything that I could announce in a public way because it just it would be kind of it would be inappropriate it would be responsible to

to put something out there that we're really not ready to to do anything with yet just requires line on when there might be able to be discussions publicly um or where you feel like you're approaching something concrete that can be uh discussed um I I agree with uh councelor in C six his idea um with that trust fund and and making affordable housing that way have there been discussions in regards to that

uh so um you know I think one of the things that's important to just to put out there as a starting point right is is that um every surrounding community that is that is contiguous to Fall River has 3% or less of affordable housing okay uh we have 25% and if you actually include government programs it's it's close to 40 um so there have been a lot of efforts already the question really

is that middle ground right not just the low income but the affordable how do you find that that well that's what I'm addressing the affordable not the low income we know that we've done Yan's work when it comes to low income housing I just don't want that last lost in the conversation because I think it's incredibly important to to acknowledge that those folks have not been left

behind we we've tried really hard to to be mindful of that and we don't want to become a place where people are continuously phased out of Fall River especially people who are from Fall River um so in all I mean so one good example is that one of the priorities identified in the opioid settlement funds is the question of housing right when people work uh through a substance use disorder and they're getting their

life back on track and they have some job skills some opportunity to actually find not only jobs but a creative life and have housing housing is critically short um and so looking at that money um in the term in terms of how do we facilitate uh housing for those folks folks that are that are in that sort of Middle Ground that are trying to get their life back on track that wouldn't

ordinarily be homeless or be in low income but might need something more or different um there's also uh efforts that the mayor and CDA U and the CDA director have been making to actually try to create some um some housing uh opportunities there um again not specific so I I think in the next six months to a year you're going to hear more uh but at this point um you know

one I just I want to make sure everyone understands that we do have a high percentage of the low income uh and that we are now sort of turning our attention more towards the middle yes because we do have a significant number of people um and I would say especially the elderly who are on fixed incomes who some that don't qualify for the low income you're correct they can't afford

the market rate and that's the group we need to Target that's the group we need to help I'm not saying specifically just the elderly but anybody that falls in that middle ground um and I think it's important that we try to do that sooner than later because to us six months a year doesn't sound long but if you if you don't have a home anymore but you have income to pay rent 6 months to a

year is a long time no doubt um no doubt so hopefully we can have some more concrete conversations and and do move that in a direction um some something else in here that I wanted to bring up so I believe last year we had $2.6 million in funded vacancies so how much of that was turned back and went into um the free cash this year what did you

say so the to um I know it was at least um around just over two million but total expenditures turned back was over 9 million do we have do you know um in this year's budget how the dollar amount in funded vacancies we're going to have or have you not gotten to that point yet we are meeting with um finalizing that with the administration meeting with department heads to go over

that and lastly I want to again bring up excuse me uh solar power again why don't we have solar panels on our municipal buildings why don't so the city including the water department spends 3,485 610 on electricity if you could offset that by 25% is a savings of $871,000 we could use that to offset water rates we could put that towards diamond we could do a lot with almost a million

dollars so we have four solar sites um total one of them uh is a power power purchase agreement similar um uh to what Ken was talking about earlier uh in fact we have a meeting I think it's scheduled this week um to do a walkthrough of the site with um the new um managers the the company that that purchased the company that we originally did the agreement with in order to look at new technology

because the technology every couple years just gets better and better and better um so they're looking at an investment into that site in order to increase the outp um and um the other sites there's actually uh I believe three different site managers across four different sites uh and on top of that we' had some of those folks come in looking at other sites whether it's the garage the very

top of the uh uh the Third Street Garage uh whether it's putting um solar uh onment Center uh there actually have been in investigations ongoing uh recently uh and do we have the structural Integrity in these buildings to actually do that um what would the would the output actually justify the cost to somebody doing a power purchase agreement because for the people doing the installation has they have to be

able to justify it as well so since uh Mr olera came in uh in City operations um renewable energy has been uh a massive priority for him so he's not only just looking at solar energy but also wind energy um because God knows our our our place here uh our little corner of Massachusetts is in and how we're situated and especially where Government Center is has great opportunity for wind energy not giant

turbines but uh the smaller compact ones um so that's something that's actually uh been uh being looked at uh pretty aggressively uh to the point where we have people coming down this week uh to try to increase what we're already doing yeah and and to my colleague in C5 to her credit every time that we talk about that uh Mr fur comes down that's one of the first questions she always asked and

always has asked she's pushed significantly um for the solar panel and you know when you look at the price of electricity Etc you have to ask yourself you know when are we going to move when are we going to you know we talk about a lot of things and I feel like it takes so long to ever get anything done and these are signif this is significant um we're not talking you

know $20,000 we're talking almost a million dollars um so that's something i' and and I'm going to speak to Mr furland about it tonight also I assume he's going to be here he will be here um you know the the water department owns in excess of a 100 Parcels of land how many Parcels could you put solar panels on you don't have to have a roof to have solar panels that's true but in terms of

the construction of the solar panels a lot of those Parcels are are purchased or we purchase to protect the the wed um so the question becomes would there is there a possibility of contamination by putting solar on those Parcels I don't know the answer but I know that that that's always a little bit of a concern and you're putting you're pouring concrete you're Excavating because

putting solar panels on a ground field is a much more intrusive operation than putting them on a building on a building you create a a framework and you attach them in the ground you have these pretty significant footings in order to withstand weather and everything else so they don't fall over so that's the only thing that that I think is probably a caution but I think Mr furling can

probably answer um better also if you don't mind while we're giving credit in addition to to energy and and other things Council PR has been one of the longest champions of a trolley and has asked over and over when are we going to get a trolley and I think the reason why it was on everyone's mind as long as it was is because she continued to Champion it we have it I think it's going to be

fantastic so credit where credits due and that'll be up and running when that is moments away uh no they they've redone the lighting they've revarnished so it's beautiful wood inside um so it has a composite four but the the the seats are all wood some of them needed a little bit refinishing that's done uh the uh handicap lift or just the I don't know what it's called now I apologize handic is repaired um so we

are very close we had a meeting uh the other day about um how people would would Reserve their spot on the trolley and and buy tickets and uh that is moving forward uh at 100 milph and it's uh it's not that far from from actually becoming a reality uh in this city and they use a grant to help pay for half of it do that Charlie run on gas or solar

energy is it an electric trolley it is not an electric trolley no and by the way uh Mr agar will be here later and he's going to speak to affordable housing as well I forgot to mention that so uh so there could there's more information that on a more uh on the W Waterfront right okay um thank you with that I yield thank you councel counc six Council party did you have your hand up

y thanks um so uh quick question and I mean the school department is here and school committee members are here too it's not just a city council meeting tonight so um I I I I I want to ask about the dery auditorium uh and what our plans are to try to work together with the schools and the city to try to find a way where the entire burden isn't on both departments City School side you're

talking about the Nagel correct okay so where are we when it comes to that any idea is Ken do you mind

okay system and is our longterm to make that classes we so desperately need we're meeting this week with Conley I know you saw that last night we have a a meeting Friday to try to get 12 classrooms off then but longterm First Step fix the roof we have tremendous amount of people looking to rent space in that facility uh whether it's the um Army Band for Symphony Orchestra we still have a good

sound system in there but it'll be once my brings forward the proposal and the estimates on what it's going to cost to fix the first step talk today about that um we may pull back some other op money that's committed but we may swing over that done right right but who's going to pay for that the city yeah the school department we we'll do the uh roof and the fire suppression let me get down to

the classrooms we'll work with our partners in the school department to make sure we fund those all right so yes so the funding source is going to be coming from the city Side not the school side but it's obviously a school building and the whole responsibility is going to be on the city or the schools but it's going to be utilized for prek classrooms will be where we do which is

operated byol by the school department so I mean like I know we we always have this discussion about Transportation right it's it's it's the city's expense it's non- net School spending eligible it's crazy to me if you ask me it grid block cities and towns when we get more money for education and it hurts the city because we need to meet 100% in that school spending so I guess I'm the

whole point of this meeting is to try to get between the two groups to see if there's a a plan that we can start moving forward that the school department will be able to help the city which you guys have done a great job in the past of doing and always been willing to do that but it goes to council and seat one's point the indirect cost agreements now are going

to be so pivotal as we enter into these future years without onetime Opera money to use Ander money to use to balance these budgets so I guess my question is is there any appetite for members of the school committee or the school Finance team and the city's Finance team to come together to you at least start having these discussions now about splitting the cost to pay for Nagel we are doing

okay so is there is there any way that it's going to be on the city side but the city's going to pay for it but there might be an opportunity that the school department might pay for the if you notice from the slide earlier the school department has picked up a substantial amount of the capital um projects that have been going on in the schools this will be no different um what we have to

do is our responsibility is to secure that building or we're going to lose that building get a roof on it then we'll talk about a fire suppression system that accommodates everybody and the actual School Wing that you're talking about going down the old VC call I believe that's where the school department will step in and take care of um of a good share of the costs that's what we're looking for a partnership on

that renovation that building but the roof and the fire suppression is something we have to do you don't think that Esser money would be able to pay for that I don't believe there's a lot of Esser money left am I right or wrong Mr it's please if you to speak please come down and gra the microphone so people know what we're saying people at home are watching this Sr 3 had 39 million so it's all

it's all timing so the Sesser money goes away way September 30th and the timing of the project like it would all it's all based on the timing of the project and I don't believe at this point that the state would take on a large Capital project to come out of Sr at this point how much is it going to C you don't nobody has any idea what it's going to cost for the roof yeah I've heard

numbers Cliff yeah um maybe between the roof and the fire suppression system5 $6 million all right and and so we we can't do it like they do it on the city Side with Opera money by essentially budgeting the sr3 money to stop paying to pay for some of that the SR money is more restrictive I'll be honest with you there's a lot more paperwork that's involved the grant ends September 30th

so once September 30 hits it's done so unless you have expenses that you've incurred prior to September 30th there's really not much we can do and the school department is going to rub them through $39 Million by September yeah most of that's already G Cliff most of it it's already gone okay um wow um I yield thank you thank you councel Council C1 counc K just to piggyback on that conversation

so did you say that's a city building the school department the school the city does own that building under the jurisdiction of the school department correct hasn't been transferred over to the city as a actual city property okay right correct correct all right I just want to clarify that thank thank you C you're correct counc SE five Council vi just a couple of questions I I listened

to my colleagues from my left um Council Pont talk about the transportation we have gone I believe it was councilor Kadeem and councelor Mitchell I think councelor rioo we all went to Boston Cliff was Cliff Cliff were you still there yeah we've already been up there we've been to Boston to try to fight they don't listen to us so I don't know I mean maybe we need to put it on the ballot or something that's

usually how you get things done um I am really happy to see the the changes that are going to be made um for the Elderly with the $500 exemption because the limits that they had were really too low and when I put that resolution I thought n the city's never going to want to give away more um but I will tell you uh Mr gonzal was really good at um you know coming up

with with with what he did um the trolley I want to see the trolley done really quick I want to be the first one to rent it June 28th my 50th Anniversary so marck that down I don't want anybody to rent it and um to the school department I I received this quot is Morton school being used as a church do we rent that out yeah the man shaking Sunday mornings

oh so any church can rent yeah that was a court case that was decided and we uh am I right Kenny the court the Court's ruled on that that a church is a a regular vendor in terms of renting it we had we had Henry Lord rented for a while too but I believe they moved out so we do rent Mor on on a Sunday it's it's a it's a good money maker for the uh

schools well how would one go about renting a school who call Kenny Pico call Mr Pico fac I know they do it the auditoriums for dance recital and but when they set a church yeah I I think the one of the services it's spectacular really when do they have the service Sunday I think it's at 10 10 10 o' they B Christmas Christmas I attended one it was it was a

praise and worship style it was pretty cool oh well thank you maybe my family will go on Sunday there there a lot of singing I love love that so I'm there with you maybe you can wrent this place for church on Sunday see well somebody told me I thought I don't think they do that and I just well thank you for that information and the public will know

check it out with that I Y thank you Mr presid for those of you that want to see Tom Cory sing Sunday morning St Anthony's of the desert Parish 10 o00 Mass I see him every week CC seat 6 counc py all right one last question so I know that you mentioned in your aggregate debt outstanding for June that says June 20 uh June 30th 2023 on it they your your

comment stood with me I didn't want you think I missed it where you said the $6 million in debt payments are going to you don't know how we're going to be able to do it I believe that's what you said yeah I don't I mean what so what's the plan what's the plan right I mean this this meeting and I know it's a tough thing but like I mean this the point of this meeting is to

start having those prary discussions Cliff I'll tell you what we're thinking we're thinking we go to a uh a vote of the public debt exclusion uh and on the November ballot as as uh Bridget told you this year the payment's $800,000 we have it covered but um when we jump to the Six Million uh almost untenable so we think we're going to go back to the voters and ask them to consider a debt override for diamonds

similar to dery but it will be on them uh going forward I think that's a prudent plan give them the option we think Diamond's very important we've been covering it in DBS and D grabs but once that thing in the next year or two balloons to 6 million a year we're going to be in another world and again that was the will of the council they made that decision when they voted for it we

needed we need a plan and we'll put one forward all right so how much do you anticipate if the voters if it goes on the ballot is going to generate for income you'll be able to generate the $6 million plus the cost for dery no dery separate well obvious there so will be two separate debt exclusions correct plus the inre in property wow correct oh boy y so in the case that the council

doesn't let it go on the ballot like they did last time the what is the plan to address the $6 million shortfall then we would go to a combination of some type of reductions in uh costs across the board which would not be pretty would we be able to start having those discussions now I think the prudent plan is to go forward with the vote first we do have a few more years

and I would just say let's go but if that's what we have to do you can you guys what do you mean we have a few more years I don't think the 6 million is going to hit till what year Bridget well so it it now um and we've been having um routine conversations um with diamond and U Mr kitchen the the way they're doing the borrowing it's probably not

going to hit us till like 27 now but 26 is looking like it's going to be over 3 million so so originally they they the original two years ago was it was going to be six and a half in 26 but again that was based on interest rates then so yeah yeah well okay thank you I it's unfortunately I appreciate the I mean that's new to me that we're going to is

you going to be coming down to the council with a communication to get it on the ballot absolutely when uh it's not till November so we have a little time it would be this this coming November go on the ballot yeah but that's what we' like interesting okay iel thank you thank you coun just have a question diamond high school transportation the state pays for their transportation so I mean another

plan would be to go to the state and make a request that they pay for dery transportation and the city transportation since they're all they do pay for transportation they pay for the regional schools that would save us an awful lot of money right uh Council there is if Sean knows this but I know he keeps an eye on this stuff when the auditor was leaving Suzanne bump who wrote a piece transportation is covered

subject to appropriation so if they covered Transportation with any kind of money we would be okay we PID for Diamond but they put no money in it so it is there is a law on the books to pay for um Public School transportation and it would also pay for uh more of our sped Transportation it's a substantial amount of money but it's subject to appropriation and the legislature doesn't put a dollar into it so we need

to the law is there they just don't fund it local legislators they do it for D I've talked to all of them um there's no appetite just like to make a point on that c seat for c not to look back but I have to say it this there's some of us who thought Diamond should have been before the voters in a first place including me y um and it just seems now

we're box it's a cop before the horse now we're going to have a Deb exclusion question which I'll support The Ballad question I always think the people should Express themselves um and uh now we're going to have to go to the voters to fund something that they Pro they should have approved in the first place like a lot the other communities the regional committees that uh that students go to Diamond so um it was yeah

it's just in my opinion um of course it's a worthy worthy project but the voters should have weight in um and made the decision on that and I again I don't want to go back in time it's uh but it U it's it's too bad so I sh I yield on that Mr council president any further questions no thank you for coming down and making the presentation now motion to adjourn the joint meeting motion to adjourn

second oh do we have what that I a motion toour the school committee meeting motion toour PA would you please call the all Mr a Mr Bailey Mr Cory yes Miss lar yes Miss Cara yes M Roger yes thank you sir yes adjourn thank you guys entertain motion to adjourn motion to adjourn is is there a second second all in favor City C joint meeting of school committee is now adjoined

care

city council please come to I know that was a blast from the past Dy the hum bu I know City CC call Road say Kade the here you know the Dion Oh my God here har here kby Pereira here Hunty here raposo Samson president C here that's what was entertain a motion to open public hear motion made second second all in favor I I any opposed motion carries item number one is a curve

removal Randon the follow 64 Division Street for removal of curbing as follows the existing opening at 64 and 66 Division Street is 14 ft curb to be removed is 16 ft there's no curb to be added combined opening proposed after alteration is 30 ft the passle is currently serviced by a 14t curb opening and driveway the applicant proposes to extend that opening by an additional 16 ft the total opening for the location

will be 30 ft are there any proponents to this public hearing any proponents come on down please state your name for the record and just right to that table there please oh it's terrible just state your name and tell us why you're a proponent of this I have a seat and P and speak into the microphone please thank you hi um yeah I'm the landlord on the owner of the 64 and 66 it's um two

parcels and um I bought it um 6 years ago now and um I want to increase the opening at the street so I can have parking for 64 and then create parking for 66 and create a more separated um parking situation over there CU right now it's just one big open thing so that's all thank you con SE how many cars are you going to get off the street with the parking that you have on uh

four so the 30 foot opening should allow 10 ft wide 10 ft wide right two deep four for 64 and then I'll still have a lane way to get in the back to 66 okay thank you problem Mr President C3 CC heart thank you sir so um you're at 6664 Division Street you want um you had you said this it's going to take four cars off the streets right now correct where are so

um how many so you have one driveway yeah it's one long driveway that's the 14 foot opening and it goes all the way like kind of 66 is behind 64 so it's one laneway that goes all the way in between the two parcels and if I cut that curb open I could increase the parking for 64 essentially oh okay okay yeah all right thank you are you thank you all that CC your set okay thank you

very much are there any opponents to this public hearing any opponents seeing none before we move on to the next one I'm going to read the open meeting law pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether

perceived or unper perceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and

permissible item number two is a zoning change zoning map amendments that want to come down please I think the planning board members are outside I think we have a joint meeting right but yeah they're outside they're on the way in some microphon I can hear not me I'm not breathing I think it's the one you're going to speak at I think those two are too close together is it fixed it fixed it Dan

terrific that's why he's the city planner he planned it did that Sol it have them all have them all sit at that table and just pull out those name tags

there

have new school committee

members thank you city engineer city planner all thank you

sir thank

you

I'll need the chair of the planning board to open up the hearing there are you the chair yes you need to open up the hearing make a motion to open make a motion to open up the hearing make a motion we open up the hearing for the uh planning board and the city council roll call call do a roll call laia present Michael present Mario president and Beth Andy John Ferrer I'm

president look to the open meeting by La any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or un perceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and

permissible have a presentation you want to make I do thank you uh council president for the record my name is Dan agar I'm the director of engineering and planning for the city of Fall River I have with me this evening Christopher Pano who is the assistant planner also here this evening is Nina Krueger the clerk for the planning department uh as you know um that was listed on the

posted agenda The Proposal before you this evening is to expand or extend the existing wtod zoning District which is the um water front Transit orientated development District that was created back in 2011 the current District runs from along the Waterfront from Slade Street all the way up past what is the current uh layover yard for the MBTA station to the north which opposite of Sydney

Street as you get up on North Main Street and easterly it extends from Bay running up through that Corridor up Williams through anaan up Deval catches up to North Main Street and then closes it off for that area that you see there uh there are two plans in front of you posted there as well as in the package and we'll get to the specific locations of those in a minute but I wanted to

have everybody to have an understanding before we start what is this zoning district and this zoning District was created again back in 2011 to promote different types of uses that were cohesive to the area along the Waterfront to promote those different types of uses I have included in packages the actual ordinance that was approved by this by this commission or by the the city council and that details

all of what the zoning ordinance actually allows for the wtod the types of uses that are allowed the building Heights the lot sizes everything that was looked at at that point in time this proposal does not change any of these requirements this proposal before you this evening only extends the area by which it applies to so we would now be proposing to extend this area easterly

to North Main Street starting from Maple to the South which puts us just above uh where the creative class building is at the old dery tech building that apartment complex and then would extend up meeting the existing wtod uh District which is about 640 ft north of whan Street and with that does is it gives us a fairly parallel Corridor along the Waterfront that we would now be calling home to the WT zoning

District um in this District it was intended to create the ability for uh housing densities of four units or more and to promote mixed uses of different commercial types restaurants uh office spaces different retail and Commercial entities it was also very Progressive at the time because it dealt with parking at a much reduced rate than what the standard zoning ordinance requires throughout the city

as you all know most of the development that we see occurring around us is governed by um the incredible amount of parking that's required by the zoning ordinance as it currently exists this existing wtod District did take into account this this type of development and what the real anticipated parking needs are um for these proposed uses additionally along that Waterfront area it took into account the ability to

create structures that are uh 80 feet in height six feet uh six stories whichever was the greater number there was also a special perit provision that allowed for the building to get um as high as um 120 ft I believe it is me back it up Yes 120 ft um we haven't seen anyone take advantage of that as the WT currently exists along the Waterfront so what I'd like to describe to you and in

our presentation not only with where this expansion is going to take place which I think you all have a general idea of on the maps that that you have before you the map we have posted up on the PowerPoint presentation shows what the area would look like after the adoption of the amendment and if because if you could back up one I think it's important to look at what area or what areas are

we replacing with this WTO D zoning District so if you look at the map that's posted up on the TV screens now the current area that you see wrapped around in the red designation is comprised of four or five different zoning districts there's a commercial Mill District which you see shaded in blue which comprises about 100 acres of this new area we also have what is an R4 zoning District which which allows for

two family uh homes to be constructed there is also a g General District that allows for a number of business uses as well as up to three family dwellings and then the B District which is primarily business related but also does allow housing up to three units on a specific parcel with a specific amount of area so again you'll see what the areas that we have multi-shaded in different colors

those would ultimately all become the wtod district running to North Main Street when we look at the shape that we uh ended up with and why we're at the limit that we are we looked at where geographically does it make sense to draw this line uh one with regards to the hodge podge of existing blocks of different zoning you could go three blocks and then have zoning change another two

blocks have zoning change so there's no cohesiveness of what happens we've been lucky enough the development that we do see it's all been done through special permits and variances which isn't necessarily the right way to govern or for plan around a city it should be something that's done by right and there only board of appeals should not be continuously burdened with granting variances we need to look at wholesale

changes through the city for the zoning by law but right now we're specifically looking at this area and I'll explain to you why this is happening why this is happening now yeah can I just interpret you for one second you said we looked at this plan who is we who is involved in making this this area so this has been looked at by the state involved or is the local people involved So currently it has been

the Redevelopment Authority had for a number of years put together a um the urban renewal plan for for this district and that was done in 2019 that was actually the next slide uh council president so these areas have been looked at for development by the planning department Consultants different developers our own Redevelopment Authority before I came here um and they instituted this

existing wtod zoning District back again in 11 in 19 the urban renewal plan recommended the expansion of that area um and I do believe that that councelor Dion was involved a little bit with the RDA at that time when when those discussions were taking place so we've also discussed this potential Proposal with the consultant that has been hired by the current Redevelopment Authority

for utilizing the development of the Route 79 Deval Street Parcels so when we discuss what we're doing there the conversation extends easterly to create an environment for similar types of development because what we're what we don't want to have happen is that we get rid of a highway that's 40 feet in height and then create a wall of buildings and creates a new wall so now when we start looking at okay if we're

going to develop this and we've had these discussions with other developers already the concern was is when I stand on Deval Street and I look towards the water I can see all these great things things happening and all these possibilities for development then when I build that and I put my $10 million investment into my building I turn around am I going to see any Improvement to what's behind me

heading easterly they want to invest in an environment that is has room for expansion and for growth this type of a zoning change would allow that to happen so this was pretty much done at the local level not the state involvement correct the state has no involvement in this cas this is a city of Fall River zoning bylaw and um that that's how it's proceeded one of the div Divergent

factors of why we're here this evening is a state requirement and that has to do with with chapter uh 3A of the housing act for creating multif family zoning districts around the South Coast rail station so there are mandates for multif family housing that we also need to comply with so we have that being fed from One Direction we have the urban renewal plan coming from another direction we have the Route

79 Parcels becoming developable so we've got multiple factors all pushing and driving towards this becoming or really becoming something that could be exceptional for the city of Fall River back to where we where we decided this line to be we looked at so currently it runs along Deval Street easterly side of Deval Street where Al Max Diner is is zoned in a BL zoning District has great

limitations of what can happen on that parcel and others around it directly adjacent to that we have the existing rail line we did not want to end it at the rail line because what have we just done there we've created a wall along the rail line that allows for that side of the tracks to be developed one way and whatever is behind the tracks you fend for yourself or you live with what

you've got so The Logical destination for this new demarcation line was more North Main Street because of the topography that exists on the easterly side of North Main Street that's predominantly where we're at the bottom of that hill and going up that hill with this type of development doesn't make sense economically because of the cost associated with dealing with that elevation difference and some of the

uses that were involved in that location so you're talking about the Brightman Street location to the right of Brightman Street where Brightman Street meets Route 79 I don't understand the question you're talk you said easterly you said e easterly so easterly easterly brings Deval Street to North Main Street right briman street is east of Deval Street in between North Main Street so the

existing line now which runs along Deval yeah we would be running parallel to North Main Street I think you have you have this package yeah okay so currently Chris if you want to back up let's go back to either one of them so currently you see now the the left hand side of that red line yeah that's the limit of the existing WTO zoning district and extending that easterly

which is to the right of your map we needed to decide how far east do we go the rail line doesn't really make sense because that almost makes a great wall and so you went to North Main Street so we went to North Main Street exactly to do you have a question yeah I just if you don't mind I think it would be um because I we had a lengthy conversation

and I'm thinking of clarification so in terms of this expansion um MBTA communities have to have so many multifamilies there so many so much density if can you please just yeah explain to them why this expansion so if Chris if you can go to the next slide so why now okay so when I came to work for the city two years ago we picked up a bunch of the existing planning initiatives that have been kind of

floundering for a little while one of the documents we were handed or I was handed and Chris when he came in a year later was the 2019 urban renewal plan in that renew renewal plan it recommended zoning changes and expansion expanded areas exactly of what we're doing next item number two as I previously stated the new developable area that's coming online through whatever form more fashion through the Route

79 um lowering and the creation of those interior apostels that area already falls under the wtod zoning District item that's item number two so we started dealing with the developers and the planners that have been hired to look at this area the expansion of what's allowed there would make sense to extend that easterly to provide a more cohesive neighborhood for likeminded developments thirdly as councelor Dion

just stated and we discussed at length today the fact that the existing MBTA uh communal rail station that's set to come online I think sometime in in the fall from what I understand um with that being located in the city with the city taking a vote Citywide to become an NBTA Community puts us in a place where we need to comply with the law that requires us to provide x amount of

multif family housing at a certain density of 15 units per acre to get to over I think 6,600 units we need to provide uh it's based upon uh percentage of I think it's 15% of our existing housing stock which is about 44,000 uh units so that law is driving us to be able to provide compliance with the state and state law the purpose for that is if we decide not to comply with state

law there is a Litany of funding opportunities the city would not be eligible for for so do I do I think this is all going to come to fruition when it's supposed to which is December 31st of 2024 no I don't because a number of communities have bed they don't want to deal with this so This Not only complies to us applies to us it applies to Somerset Swansea Westport at different

at different rates of development but these are all municipalities that have no M mult multif family housing zoning so if you could explain to people cuz I know there's people out there that are saying forer has more multifamilies than anybody within 60 miles here I should have spoke to you today because you're you're stealing all my thunder but that's okay so um as as everybody always

talks about the city of Fall River has carried the burden for multif family housing for Southeastern Massachusetts right I don't think that's affordable low income anything this has been where people come to live that that can't live in Somerset Dartmouth or or the like well what this law intended to do was to spread the wealth okay there are many municipalities that are saying we don't

want your state funding we're not going to do it and there are there is litigation going on now through even communities up north from us that that are fighting and there are lawsuits happening with the state so if you're an adjacent Community you need to provide a much lesser density but where Fall River is we're at we're at the top people then say well how about all the multif family

housing that we have we do and if we could take credit for it all we wouldn't have to do this but the way that the law is written they don't care if it's constructed they don't care if you can get a variance to do it we have to provide a zoning District that by right allows this amount of density so when you drive down North m Street and you see 120 unit apartment building on this

side a 60 unit apartment building on this side go down a little bit further let's look at Mr car's building with B coost on Deval Street beautiful building right the kind of development we want to see Happening Here in the city we get credit for none of it because they all had to be been done through the issuance of special permits and variances development that makes sense and that

the zoning board of appeals saw had the foresight to Grant relief so that these types of developments can happen that building where that Mr Kum built that's in a BL zoning District that allows a three family house so as far as MBTA is concerned and the Commonwealth of Massachusetts we do not get credit for that piece of land or that building sure that is to simplify a little bit that's

because we're offering giving an except speak into the microphone please so that's as a result of us giving an exception correct a very and that's why it doesn't count well yes so the way the law is written every municipality is 177 of them that fall under this MBTA communi different levels you know because you have communal rail you have adjacent Community you have you know the

the green line areas I mean all the the real heavy you know T stuff the law applies this way you must provide a zoning District capable of meeting all the criteria that they tell you to do and have all these convoluted models with uploading GIS shape files and AR files and they go through all the assessors records and they determine through zoning what you can provide and to what density they have a program that

does that we were required to submit preliminary data to them prior to December of 23 and we were able to get and acquire what they term interim compliance so that means okay you you've got this happening already we will lauded for having this existing wtod zoning District they want that to be the example to other communities I don't know who came up with this in 2011 I wish it was me but it wasn't so someone

at the time had the forethought to create something like this um and again Michelle I gave you the same analogy today planning is a difficult thing because we don't plan for what's going to happen tomorrow in in land planning right you plan for what's happening down the road and I I explained to Michelle is that this ordinance in 2011 11 was a God send to me now getting compliance

because someone took the forethought of planting bulbs in the fall so that flowers could grow in Spring not very exciting to plant bulbs right in the fall my wife does it I I'd rather go buy plants and plant them and when they die plant new ones a year later but people plant thousands of bulbs right in anticipation of they're going to bloom this is about to bloom okay this next expansion that that we're here tonight

to discuss with view this is planting new bulbs for 5 10 years down the road um but we have had developers looking to develop other pieces of land because the Route 79 Parcels aren't available yet not sure when that's actually going to happen and clip will tell you more than anybody 101 President Avenue there was a developer very interested in that development of that site um it needed

zoning relief to do it so whether we got a 100 units out of it or 500 we would have gotten no credit with MBTA because it's not zoned to allow it as a matter of right now let's look back at the wtod and say how do we control what gets built kaz1 Kaz so the uh car's property though it's in the zone so why no it is notand the dev Street it ends at the

property line on the easterly side of Deval Deval yes so it does not extend anywhere e so that's where you want to I'm sorry that's where you want to extend East we to grab properties like that exactly okay um now where that line how far east it goes I explain to you my rationale and our discussion of why we went to North Main doesn't have to go that far

yeah but it has to be drawn some and it's going to go sorry it's going to go East to North Main and then all the way up North and meet back up again W currently is exactly so will the pre-existing houses TN houses that are there will they count so here's here's the interesting thing and and this is this is like a freebie um and it serves our purpose very well we we

discussed and we want to talk about affordable housing okay the existing multif family structures that are in this zoning District now that are already not compliant because none of none of Fall River housing complies with the zoning that they're in because they were built so long ago and they just don't meet it a three tenement house on 4,000 square feet of land it doesn't comply to any District we have this

passage allows those properties to now meet zoning requirements for use not necessarily for the structure but all they want to know is they don't want to even know what's on there now it's just what does the zoning District allow to happen so what we get for free here is I own a two family house on Pickering Street let's say and I have an attic that by zoning it's in an R4 zoning

District I need zoning relief to make a third floor apartment if I now fall in a WTO zoning District I do not need a special permit or a variance I can create new housing stock in my existing multif family by adding a unit and now I've just created more affordable housing I think we all agree that a third floor tenement is not market rate housing yeah like we're going to be developing in some of the

new construction so the ability for people to get more out of their existing real estate and expand the unit count that they have that that's a freebie for us to being able to create affordable housing and giving them greater value to their real estate Mr Ha counc Kim has a question sure so just a question so regarding Milton so Milton the they proposed a zoning change right and then to town meeting to

meeting Town voted it down so the legislative body voted it Down Right which is okay and so I'm pay in the court was it was it was it a legislative body or was it the town no no so town so that's to meeting town meeting which is a legislative body which is the city essentially the city council for a town but that's where the AG is coming in saying Hey listen okay

so you put it forward so it's it's the voters right so it's it's open town meeting so if you're a registered voter you get to go to town meeting and and take a vote so they they voted it down now attorney general was moving forward saying it didn't get approved the municipality said we we're trying to comply with the law that you're putting forward but it got shot down so now the question is

becoming as to whether or not like what's the end game from the AG's office like you're going to force this you tell us we've got to go through the process and if it fails at the process well see here's the funny thing when when the compliance model first came out it let people know you have the option but understand the ramifications for you deciding not to right so if if these towns that are wealthy enough not

to need funding they can decide like they have for many years in the past but not complying with 10% affordable housing through 40b developments and everything else they can turn their nose to the whole thing because fine we make the city of Fall River I don't know tens of millions of dollars a year in grant funding that we have across the board for every agency we don't have the ability to to tell the state we don't

need your money okay but what we need to do is to creatively craft zoning that meets their requirements with really not doing much other than moving a line on a piece of paper that's why I say the existing ordinance if I was before you so towns are trying towns and some municipalities they they they're not at this point they're trying to create this so we're we're not creating this

we're just extending it now there is is a chance there is a chance that when we submit for full compliance coming soon and again this is this is one component right this is only one one spere that we're trying to comply with which is the 3A thing there's a chance that we can manipulate numbers and shape files and everything else to be found in compliance the way that we sit now

because there are different calculations of so much of the district needs to fall within a half a mile of the station I could drag in land from somewhere else or different zoning districts it becomes very convoluted and and complex but there is a chance that that could happen so that's why I stated this is this is really being more driven by sound planning principles as looked at in 2019

through the urban renewal plan and then also meeting the MBTA requirement and so it just happened to be so if the train station wasn't on Route 79 that has this new land that's being developed under wtod and has so we need we have developers and existing development let's take the train out of it this is sound planning practice with the train without the train with 3A without 3A all

of ours are just all converging at the same location for the same purpose so we're killing three birds with one stone our housing needs MBTA compliance and developers wants for this type of an area for what they want to invest in so but in terms of the just to stay on the MBTA compliance so and I forgot the terminology that they use so we're a host community so we actually have the

station here Somerset Westport would be a neighbor Community adj adjacent Community thank you so they've got a little bit different requirements in terms of what they need to meet so in terms of the requirements that are required for us we put forth this uh new zoning this overlay yeah we just need approval from the legislative body which is the city council and then that that's

all or is there other other requirements because that's that's as of December 2024 that we've got to have it's my job and that's why time is kind of of the essence of this my job is to submit for compliance by December 31st of 24 so whether this happens or not I need to provide documentation of why I feel we're in compliance that's why I'm saying there's a chance that even without this you could

when I tell you how convoluted this is and I'm and I'm sure Sean knows there are multiple state agencies that help provide technical guidance for getting people through this process like a town like West port or Somerset that doesn't even have a plan and they're and they're expecting that municipality to get through this I I I don't I don't understand it that's why I stated very early on I

don't see this being completed Statewide by the end of this year this calendar year some some hammer or some ball is going to drop that is going to put this thing on a spin and change things dramatically but that doesn't mean that I that I that I don't have to do listen and follow through with the the Milton situation has has put an issue a damp now there's a lot of communities there's

a lot of communities that were already in compliant prior of this there were communities that were in the process of becoming compliant and now there are communities that's saying absolutely not we're going to we're going to take a wait and see approach because obviously they're they're adjacent communities they want to see what's what happens to Milton right right and then then they

weigh their options so what I think will happen is all these timelines will be extended that that's how the government works right they're like okay we're going to give everybody another two years to comply we're going to loosen up a little bit on a few things we're going to you know let's let's all work together to create multif family housing this is just done by a you know a swap

you know of a pen everybody has to do this at one point in time immediately and that's it was very poorly done and many people I would say so I mean I was aware of it when I first started here because it was just the timing was just right that I I fell into it um there were communities and I see when I sit on different serpent communities communities and uh boards um that only

really became aware of this it's like they they put their head in the sand until about six months ago there is no way they can pull their head out of the sand and get this done in that short period of time so I would hope that their legislators in their designated areas are lobbying the state to ease on this a little bit U but I can tell you um with the conversations that I've had

with the different regulatory authorities they think what the city did in 2011 is state-of-the-art okay would have thought Kenny was on his the extension I I don't want to give anybody credit he'll take credit when he stands up but um this this extension again 2019 urban renewal plan recommended it good planning going forward does it the development 79 and that entire Waterfront caror requires

it and BTA is going to be complied with easily with with this land acquisition added to the area tag C C8 CC Samson new y c c one C Simpson I just I have so let me just make a statement first that we're incredibly lucky to have you Mr agar this is um brilliant and almost seems like a no-brainer um that if what you're saying is we're going to get credit for the

buildings that are already in the proposed amendment so what what we what we're getting credit for is the land area that exists in zoning districts now that that do not comply so would um so theoretically yes we'll be getting credit for what we've allowed to have happen what we've allowed to happen so the new building that we were just discussing um Mr K's building would then be right because now when they look at

the model again they don't look at what's on that piece of land but now they look at that piece of land and under the wtod district which would now govern that you would be able to build what's there now so there's a vacant piece south of Turner Street that that adjacent to the gas station yep came in before the board two years ago three years ago was actually an old client of mine got

zoning relief to put up another building similar to Mr kum's building haven't built it yet that that was again not allowed by rights a zoning change like this that now becomes a by right and now we get credit for that as well so now I don't want to say it's a no-brainer because with every decision that you make specifically regarding to zoning there are questions that people have right

what about the existing people that don't want to see this type of development around them right so the those are things that we consider and we look at the types of developments and land uses that are currently in this area we have a number of Mill structures that are currently underutilized because they don't fall in zoning districts that allow for apartments now they will be so then my

next question then what would be the downfall to approving an an amendment like this you will have people that will will say that might live on North Main Street in a certain location I don't want to see an 8ot put building on the side of it understandable now what would have to happen for a building of that size to be built it would need to acquire and accumulate multiple Parcels of land

you're not going to see an 80 foot building with 50 units of housing on a 5,000 foot piece of land you might see a three or four unit building which we would now get credit for so the the the downfall would be just like anybody any planning initiative change right many people are afraid of change they don't want to see anything change people don't want to see and however many they may be

or how vocal they are people don't want to see the development through the Route 79 Corridor they would rather see it be grass forever okay that's not what we're charged for here we we're we're charged here to create Economic Development economic growth and increased housing stock you listen to anybody across the country housing housing housing every one needs housing we have the ability

here to be a model right how often do how often can we say that you know um this is and so so when I hear from from legislators and planners and everything else how great this document is existing um that makes you feel good right because you know somebody at some point in time did something that adjacent communities didn't New Bedford doesn't have this they're in the process of

trying to create something very similar to this um so I'm thankful that I didn't have to deal with I I just needed to pick this up and just scretch the area a little bit well it was a great presentation and I Y thank you I appreciate that appreciate it thank you councelor any further questions there be no further questions um entertain a motion request the planning board report to the council to the city

council I'm sorry requested the plan provide report to the city council excc I think you might need I you might have people that want to speak on this either for or against there a public hearing I'm sorry county2 can you also explain how some of these uh Mills Etc will be grandfathered in right so again another downfall and again nothing that we created new when they created the old wtod zoning district

there is a section and I recommend that you read through this I mean this this is you're not voting on this tonight this is going to come back to you so the information that you have before you tonight read it right read the existing wtod zoning district and you're going to see the Clause that allows for existing uses to remain specifically any areas that used to be in the industrial zoning

District which went by the wayside and became a commercial Mill District so those existing uses in those Mills that are commercial in nature whether for manufacturing uh storage whatever it is they are allowed to remain they are allowed to expand and to continue on as they were allowed to under the the previous zoning District so this will this does not shut anyone out from continuing on with what they've been

currently doing now and that's very important and I'm assuming back at the time when they did this that was some of the opposition that came to them is hey you can't take let's say let's look at the whole week Street area and the different Mills and everything that used to happen in there you can't just take an area like that rezone it and now not allow for like-minded uses to expand or

continue on so that's in there so that that that zoning protection for existing uses carries through not only for a single family house to a five-story mill that's 100,000 square feet all right are there any other proponents to this public hearing come down please and and I'm sorry for not doing this earlier but can everyone at the table please just give your name and what department you with for the record

certainly again Dan agar director of engineering and planning for the city of Fall River Chris Pano assistant planner

um thank you and uh good evening uh for the record um my name is Ken Fiola I'm the Executive Vice President of Bristol County Economic Development consultants and I'm here tonight to specifically speak in support of the proposed WT wtod zoning map Amendment um prior to uh getting into my prepared remarks i' just like to uh thank uh the council for actually for those that were here in

2011 for having a foresight to actually put together the wtod right um we did it at that time in anticipation of commuter rail uh becoming uh a reality and also you know the relocation and what you see taking place in the Route 79 project is something that we be working on for 20 years so the wtod fell within the parameter of what we ultimately envisioned would occur along the Waterfront so with regard to

this particular plan itself I'm just going to read this into the record if I may it'll take a minute or so but um uh dear president CRA please accept this letter of support for the proposed zoning M Amendment zoning map Amendment requesting that the city council establish the Waterfront and Transit oriented development District to the westly side of North Main Street from Walnut Street to the Northerly side of

Wayland Street as you're aware the realignment of Deval Street in Route 79 will create more than a million square F feet of mixed use development and new land created in central portion of Deval Street this new land presents an opportunity to create a new neighborhood that links the Waterfront with the existing neighborhoods which are currently separated from the Waterside access without a better coordinated

zoning plan for the development of the land created by the proposed realignment the city of f River andalon Massachusetts will lose a unique once in a-lifetime Generation generation opportunity to recalibrate the entire Waterfront area with the exception of of the wtod the zoning districts in the Deval Street area are quite fragmented for instance three distinct areas have CMD zoning and three uh distinct ex uh

areas have be uh have BL zoning similarly while the three residential zones R1 G and M border one another or touch residential zones outside the study area they are occasionally compressed into re as narrow as two blocks or are wrapped around larger industrial areas to high this High degree of fragmentation and inconsistency within the the areas undesirable first the current zoning places incompatible uses namely low

density residential districts in the city's heaviest industrial zones next to one another this Arrangement has the potential to adversely impact residential neighborhoods as traditional industrial uses can generate air and noise pollution and often involve trans transportation of goods via large trucks since industrial areas tend to shut down at the end of the work day these zones also have potential to create large

holes within the existing residential fabric that feel unsafe to travel through at night further the inconsistency could make the area Less Pleasant for pedestrians and may make it feel less accessible to visitors finally the streamlining zoning will make it easier for the developers and residents of the immediate area to better understand what can and cannot be built according to write this could

undoubtedly smooth the development process making for a more attractive place to build and reduce the work of the zoning board of appeals in addition to the inconsist to the inconsistent use in dimensional regulations the zoning District the the zoning districts designate parking and load requirements which further confuse development opportunities along the water from the R4 GM and bl districts share different

parking and loading requirements the number of is required is dictated by the use however so those districts that allow uses with significant parking demands for example retail businesses and hospitals will have more parking than districts where uses with less intensive parking uh requirements are dominant the WT o calls for Less parking by use than the other five Zone this is ideal given the unanticipated uh given

the anticipated opening of the commun rail station in June of 24 but as we all now know it looks like it's going to be EXP um expanded to the fall of 24 in any opinion in my opinion changes to the WTO footprint and regulations are imperative if the city is going to truly realize the community benefit of the realignment of the of the Deval Street Route 79 to1 allow for new development of of new

residential multif family mixed use development by right two support high quality design which will reward developers who Advance thoughtfully designed projects and three create a waterfront that is vibrant pedestrian and bike friendly and reduces car dependency and City parking needs for people who choose to live work and recreate near the commu rail platform and surrounding areas envisioned by the

wtod thank you for your time and attention in this important matter I hope you vote favorably upon the proposed wtod zoning map Amendment thank you than thank you are there any other proponents seeing none C sorry I just have one question you mentioned earlier about the Redevelopment um RDA was involved in this question that I have did they hire an architectural firm now something yeah

yes I'm just curious who did they hire so the Redevelopment Authority acquired the services of stantech who is currently working on a master plan development scenario for this Corridor through through their owness but they're not they're not an architectural firm they're an architectural engineer and planning entity was that a bid process yeah was a through public bid procedure to do that yeah I like s saki Sasaki

they did not they did not submit a bid too bad because sometimes when you get people like that that come in and bid on something businesses and developers know that that group and I don't know the group so they can do just a good job but that brings an influx in stantech is I don't want to say are they good they're not the new Sasaki but they are probably the most prominent um architectural

engineering and planning firm in this area in Boston and actually they they're located in Boston and Providence we're working with the Boston office but they're also a national and international organization um they're responsible for development in Somerville uh Chester Bay South Street Seaport um all throughout Boston itself they work on behalf of private developers as well as

municipalities so the Firepower and the expertise and the engineering uh capacity that they bring to this exercise is uh pretty substantial well to just that some of these firms have a following where they know the quality of their work how they develop things what type of landscape they do what you know right part part of the reason I think the Redevelopment Authority and I was on

a committee chose s Sasaki was because of their um their experience in working on behalf of private developers in terms of the types of things private developers are looking for uh as well as breaking it down to square footage for retail space as well as commercial space we're testing the market to see if there's a need for a hotel um and we're looking at how much square footage can

actually be accommodated within this area uh without violating you know a lot of the um scenic view cors that currently exist and creating better opportunities for people well you know I for one look at that whole Waterfront as that is the future of for River and it needs to be developed right and if it takes time and they you have to have a lot of meetings and there's a lot of

hard work that goes that's going to go into this that we take the time to do all the hard work and do whatever we have to do because that's going to be what people see when they come in through Far River yeah as part of the process guideline for yeah absolutely as part of the process uh there will be um public input there will be public meetings there'll be interviews with Community leaders uh and Community

groups themselves as part of this overall process so it'll be all inclusive do you know Ken I think that that's fine but when we had the railroad coming in and what they were going to do and we had people from the state coming down um to Heritage State Park and you know they had all these plans drawn out and people could come the public could come for input what hardly anybody shows

up and then after something's done everybody will complain well this should have been done or that should but go before things are done I know one of the things I was there was with this a public hearing Council want to hear from the public in but sometimes they don't come and then they'll complain after but his opening to his lot in the back it wasn't that big so that opening needed

to be a little bit larger if they're going to develop anything in the back that might sound very trivial but it's important and you know with everything we've done with the Vietnam Wall that whole strip is really I'm very excited to see that being developed but I'm also very cautious on you know let's not just put it together quick let's really think about it and plan it appropriately even

if you have to put uh a parking garage there well why not build a parking garage maybe store storefront wraps on the bottom build a parking deck apartments on top whatever but put some sales around it put some kind of architectural feature around so you're not just looking into cars thank you c um I that's just and I think doing this District I don't have a problem with this I think it just gives more opportunity for

individuals thank you C with that I Y thank you Council H thank you um Dan I I forgot to ask you something about the Zone I know how where North go how far north it goes but how far south does it go Walnut Street Walnut Street y okay Y which which is just a block or two above creative class where the old different Tech was yeah okay thank you um also too

you said that uh this Zone it's mandated for certain number of units correct how many units did you say again we need to provide 6,600 units of multif family affordable housing within that certain coridor that they tell us that it needs to be um so we have a total number because of all the different calculations an odd thing and I don't want to belor this any longer where our train station is located we have to draw

a half a mile radius of where they want this type of housing half of our half a mile radius falls in the water so we don't have that land area to use the other half of it runs all the way up to Highland Avenue up the hill so from North Main Street up doesn't make sense to do that as well so we've needed to make a longer thinner area in order to

accommodate this and that that's what drives the shape of this zoning District as well because they tell you how much acreage you need to provide at a minimum how many units at a minimum the density at a minimum there's all of these different factors and thank goodness they have a computer program that models this for you otherwise I mean I'm a paper and Pen guy I'd be flipping papers

all over the place so this is you just you put it all into their magic box and you press a button it either spits out compliant or non-compliant and this and this this Zone there's there's no restriction on the height of the building there is there is yes I he you say 80 80 ft six stories that that's currently what's there now in the zoning district for wtod that is not changing

we're not asking for any height height increase um again you can go higher with a special permit we don't get credit for anything that requires a special permit okay I got it okay thank you I Y thank you Mr AA how many units will this give us once we take this into consideration good um well the current wtod zoning District including everything roads Parks is about 4 and 50 acres this would

add an additional 250 acres to it my guess is we would have the ability for probably it's going to give us credit for probably 3,000 to 4,000 units on top of what we already have credit for so what would we need how many more would we need to build to be we get to 6600 what's that we need to get to 6600 and what are we at now that compliance when we get to this when we

make this change what will we be at that's the question how much more than we need to get we will have exceeded that number so it be all that y okay thank you all right are there any other proponents Michael I just had a quick comment I was actually I'm as you may or may not know I'm a landscap architect inter designer I'm actually the one who's doing the design for the

Waterfront um I don't do work in the city uh I just volunteer whenever I can part of that volunteering was to sit down with the Redevelopment Authority I provided them I do this type of work all over the world uh I'm blessed I used to be an employee of Saki for many years working on some great projects but I provided for them at least a dozen and a half probably two dozen firms the

topnotch firms to propose on this particular Waterfront you're absolutely right once in a lifetime opportunity and I wanted to make sure that key players were brought to the table from them they were shortlisted down um for the ones that were there and one was chosen which is a very uh um prominent uh firm who's who's actually part of this and once this starts becoming more public um

process I'll be involved in that as well but also you know you will as well and and so will the community but it was vetted um extremely uh carefully on uh who should be uh going for this type of project like firms like nbbj aom El Freddy and of course Saki and of course dant so thank you Mr frus and you know it's it's a pleasure to have you on the

planning board with all these members um with the knowledge that you have and I know that all the members are very engaged in this entire project so but thank you for your service welcome thank you appreciate it are there any opponents to come on down please

state your name and address for the record please yes um Nelson B 210 Sunset Hill Fall River now Mr agar I completely respect you what I'm about to say now is not an indirect disrespect towards you in any way this is from mass.gov about section three and this is what they said about affordability requirements because we keep on hearing that this whole Proposal with the train coming through is going to provide

affordable housing but this is what the state says quote section 3A does not include any Express requirement or authorization for an NBTA Community to require affordable units in a multif family housing project that is allowed as a right that is from the state it's not me saying it was what the state is saying so given that said we we all know what this is going to be at the end this is just

going to be marcket rate housing on steroids now you just said baby by the Fall that the train is going to come through hopefully if it starts so that means come January the residents are going to see a huge price increase in their rents in that whole area that pretty soon the the entire Waterfront is going to be unreachable for the average Fall River R adopting this this is only going to

price them out even faster and when you have the state saying that there's no Express requirement or authorization for affordable units we all know what that entails which is why we've seen a huge interest with market rate housing especially with developers seeing it it's because they see what this law was coming down and what it brings that's why you have free time that's upset all

these communities are upset because they see what it is this this this this is not going to Brak affordable housing now I commend the presentation is very well put together but let's be realistic and let's come down to reality this I hope that the city council can vote this down and take into into into consideration the human toll that this train on the negative side is going to impose on our residents

who are all already on the brink of being priced out and and I wanted to to quote the state exactly because I don't want to be called a liar by anyone including Mr Fiola which again I have nothing against him either but let's be realistic about what this is and what the end goal with this is is all about it's just about to bring more market rate housing Mr Vasquez I a question

freet Town's upset at for River for no no no no they were upset because the state is imposing this Mandate of providing this density housing and I saw one of their residents really complained that they they wasn't informed about it and you know Milton they're also upset about it because they see what what it brings but I just wanted to correct the record as to what this is and what the

end goal is and and it's not to bring affordable housing thank you Mr council president would you like me to respond it's up to you you don't have to he has a right to say he's opposed to it I'll give a quick response um nowhere did I give during my presentation the assertion that the NBTA Community requirements was going to provide affordable housing yeah I agree I never once said that what I did say was that

we would be getting a freebie by this zoning change that would allow existing homeowners that have existing multifamilies to expand on their existing if you have a two family most multifamilies have an attic space that that's not utilized for anything but storage deal with it every week somebody wants to make a three-unit building out of a 2unit building it needs zoning relief won't require zoning relief any

so if we have a family that has a two family or let's say a single family and they want to create an in-law apartment they can do it for their for their in-laws that need somewhere to live at a reasonable rate they can now do it by right without zoning relief that's what I stated about affordable housing nowhere did I say okay that new development coming into the city was going to create new affordable houses

now that being said this Council the administration any public entity of 10 voters or more can propose a zoning change if you would like to propose a zoning change that requires an affordable component to any type of residential development that occurs through the city you have the ability to do that so you may want to se Council and maybe come up with a with a bylaw that you can propose to this Council and

they can act on it the same way I'm requesting that tonight I'm I'm just saying that you know for for months and months The Narrative has been that all of this down by the Waterfront with the train coming in is going to bring affordable housing and it it's not I'm I'm not saying you said it exactly I'm just saying what the residents in the city has been s Hearing for months so I

just wanted to correct the record of what the state is saying about section 3A so that it's on public record so that the public can know and again I wasn't saying that you said it I'm just saying what's been saying for a long time all right I think everyone understands the discussion with regards to the affordable component with regards to my present thank you anyone else are there any

other opponents to this public hearing any other opponents seeing none now entertain a motion of request for the planning board to provide a report to the city council someone make that motion motion and seconded motion has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed okay the planning board want to close their public want to close your meeting you have a motion to adjourn a motion to Second motion by Mario

second second by Beth all in favor I I I as well thank you thank you all very much just just so everybody knows our normally planning board meeting um regular schedule is tomorrow night we will be taking this up tomorrow night and the recommendation for a report back to you so we anticipate having a report back to you by Friday so that you can hopefully get it on the quickest agenda

that you have the ability that'll be the 23rd great I'm not sure about advertising that's the ladies behind me know that better than I do they my hands all the time and they tell me no you can't you have to follow this rules I'm not a rule follower thank you I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing motion to close the public hearing motion second all in favor any oppos meeting is now

Clos thanks Chris bye Mario bye

Mario city council Committee of Finance come to order clerk will call the RO council is kadim here Dion here Hart here Kilby here herera here Pony here Roso Samson here president CRA here pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting to any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or trans

missions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible we have one individual that has signed up for since for time Nelson Vasquez subject matter dery and Diamond you have three minutes Mr Vasquez I have to say it's probably the longest I ever stayed in this room in this meeting but um you know stay all night uh I know but when you're fighting

for a good cause uh it's always it's always a pleasure to do this um it's always good to correct or workon on whatever the case may be um but um as you guys know there is the proposal for Diamond uh I G I gave each of you the packet as to what the process is uh when when uh putting this on the ballot um you know so for Diamond you have to follow the

process you got to provide two questions okay you can't just ask one question and then just choose what you want granted if they uh accept the the exemption which is why I provided the ballot of the dery that was used as a guide um but with that said even with following the process and making sure we do it right at a minimum if we're going to ask the residents about diamond we need to ask

about dery because again only only one question was asked and you need and and the pagas says you need to put the options of the override and underride on the ballot and it says it in those both paragraphs so which can lead to a lot of uh different types of Pathways you know so if they vote for the override then obviously the death service for dery will remain the same if they if they

accept the underride and given the whole secrecy as to not putting the numbers on the tax rols I wouldn't blame them for choosing the underride but again if if the city doesn't follow the process with this because again we're talking with the people money then potentially this city could be exposed to Legal litigation because again we if we're going to do business we're going to do

business right now with that said even if we follow the process I am still advocating for no and it's not because of I'm anti-education which I'm not I'm pro-education is that we need to look out for the taxpayer if if if this does not get done properly the the residents of this city the vast majority will not be able to sustain two potential overrides proposition 2 and a half

Watergate 2.0 at it all they will not be able to sustain it so I just wanted to make sure that if we're going to ask the residents if you guys choose as a body to put on a ballot let's follow the process for both projects because that's what's needed and again when it comes to the people's money you have to do things right thank you all right thank you Mr

President one C just quickly just to I guess clarify so the um do you need Mr vasco's at the table I don't need him at the table it's just more of general statement um so even though a debt ex exclusion is considered a a two and a half override it's not a two and a half override um if the administration came down for a two and a half override then

you would have to do an underride as well but we didn't request an two and a half override so two and a half override you know you get a two and a half% whatever the tax increase is that stays on your tax bill for life right the debt exclusion is for a project specific and it ends when the project ends so there's only one question for debt exclusion so

I just want to put that out there so understood thank you councelor you're welcome item number two fiscal year 2025 Enterprise fund budget Emergency Medical Services referred on 32624 want to come down

please good evening good evening

want to give us a brief overview and then the council ask questions or yes you have in front of you is the fiscal year 2025 budget for uh Emergency Medical Services um please speak into the microphone and give your name and what department you would for the rec director VMS thank you Tim um so we have in front of the fiscal year 2025 uh budget for Emergency Medical Services um the budget itself is uh streamlined um

you're not going to see any big increases uh other than the um maybe health and penants that we are a a decent increase in but other than um expenditures or salaries other than the contractual obligations I don't see any huge increases but we're open for questions thank you so um going back to 2023 your department had a budget of $9.6 million going into FY 2024 your department had a budget of 11 million

this year we're going into a budget 13.7 million what has changed since 2023 so since 2023 we've implemented some new programs we have the um if non-emergency transport side that has defin def itely um taken off um so we've expanded on that side uh we have the uh vaccinations uh for children that is not a money maker that is just we break even on that but we do do flu shots we work

with C Coast hospital we do the uh Co shots and they do the flu shots so that's another another Revenue stream but from the immediate 23 to current is the non-emergency transports that's where the biggest Revenue grab has been right Revenue increase correct okay so you're seeing huge Revenue increase within your department from fiscal year to fiscal year mhm and your expenses are increasing as well

obvious correct we have to add Personnel to meet those expectations so we currently run two trucks that's eight Personnel uh in addition to the non-er that's non-emergency we run six rescues for the Emergency side and two for the non-emergency side 247 all right so I I I I I want to appreciate what your department does because it's it's it's a lot of work and it's and it's very

challenging to do the job of a paramedic I want to just preface this by saying this however I've been speaking for a while out loud about how there is ways if possible to find a way to do an analysis to see if we abolish the Enterprise account for EMS and run it in through the general fund if there would be a possibility for the city to to supplement its Revenue not only by

way of taxes but the income that is generated by way of the EMS Enterprise account not putting them in a position where their department is fragmented or unorganized or not able to still function to a high level but other communities do it and have you done an analysis on that so no I have not done an analysis um but what I will say is is the indirects so I think what you want

um is already being accomplished because so they reimburse the general fund for their pension and healthare and they also um pay the general fund for a portion of you know what the city collector does what the treasury Department does what the auditor does for them so that's accomplishing I think what you're talking about I'm not quite sure well how much Surplus did you have in your budget last fiscal year so uh

last fiscal year um we didn't get C it was yeah three yeah it was just over three million just over of that is is there and you'll see a transfer in in your packet so we finally um finished reconciling with the state with M and FEMA and there's there's a uh significant amount of that free cash is coming back to that femur account to make that whole because there was um expenditures that ended up being

disallowed so part of that's what built into their um Revenue their Surplus over the last couple years and we knew that we've been having conversations over the I don't know got over year talking about that to clean that up um it was a very long process with FEMA um they had a lot of personnel changes so I started just about two years ago and that reconciliation was going on for about

two years so the other thing is is their Sur their Surplus um we reinvest back into um specific EMS things that the general fund is not paying for so including like if there's any debt that they would incur then the so so so you don't feel that the city would benefit and you're the finance person not me I'm just thinking because other communities do this right and I know not a lot of

them do and I had a conversation with a colleague of mine much more smart much smarter than I am that says I'm crazy to even have this discussion but I'm trying to find ways to bring in Revenue so sure you speaking I can't hear you because you can speak so there are things in the budget that are both on the direct side and the indirect side yep so we pay expens put

the microphone closer to you please it's really hard to hear the mic just speak it you can put what happen is so 30 30 30% of this 13 million budget is going back into the general fund for paying for indirects and direct expens 30% 30% 30% okay so we so what's happening is we hold on hold on for one second and how much was that total allocation last year um it was that that the the EMS

Enterprise account gave back to the city and indirects um o over $3 million and this year it'll be 4 million in change all right this year this fiscal year that we're in or the fiscal year you're preparing for in 2025 the current fiscal year is $3,338 44 and that's going back to the city that's that's what goes to the city so you give the city your indirects as well as your free cash yes so what's

happened is in the past with through covid we were because we had other obligations our pension cost may not have been um equivalent to the increases that we're seeing now so what we're doing is in through years we're trying to we've incurred a 25% increase this year in our pension costs 22% increase in our health insurance plus we increase the city in City indirects 10 7% so we incurred a

percent of like 12% this year increase in the indirects so a total of 30% of our budget is going to the city Side for services and health and pensions which are a direct expense to the EMS Enterprise fund and the rest of the percentage goes back to the Enterprise account for operations no I'm talking about of our operating budget this budget you have in front of you budgeted 30% of your Enterprise account goes back

to the city 30% of this $13 million budget is going back to the city okay how much did you budget or do you intend on budgeting for expected indirects from EMS going to the next fiscal year exactly what's in the budget $4 million 240 and so I just want to say that um I we've worked very closely together we've had a lot of conversations I reached out to per we got more of an analysis done

so we've increased what the indirects were that were happening prior to this so I think we're accomplishing basically what you want to accomplish and we're just without having to blow it all up I understand that but what I was trying to look at it is every you know when you see an ambulance that goes by it's it's an invoice whether you're invoicing the insurance company or an individual

somebody's paying for that service so what I'm what I'm try and I recognize that and we owe that as a responsibility as a community what I'm trying to find out is I understand that there's 30% that goes back and all that other stuff but what I'm trying to determine is is there a way that we can raise revenue without increasing everything else that we're increasing by utilizing the

biggest money maker with the exception of taxes is the EMS account so it's deceiving right so what happens is 62% of the EMS call volume is Medicare and Mass health 62% of the city population is either Medicare or mass so that population that population in those fees are driven by the federal government right so they pay us $400 a call if we do an ALS call to go out the door so you may see us doing

30 to 24,000 you know 24,000 to 30,000 calls a year but 60% of those calls are um reimbursed at a federal rate so our commercial insurance rate is very nominal in compared to what our um what the commercial rate is what what how many how many calls did you have last year do you know of medic we had 24,000 24,000 reimbursable calls 24,000 reimbursable calls and of those of those

calls how many of them were uh through Medicaid and Medicare do you have any idea yep so our our Medicaid re our Medicare reimbursement was 4,445 and our our Medicaid was 4,872 and that doesn't count the uninsured so our hard Collectibles were about $1.1 million so our outstanding with people with no health insurance was about $1.2 million that year you don't stand a chance of collecting okay I've answered my

questions for now thank you very much you're welcome any other questions I I don't have any questions I think they do a great job okay thank you very much thank you very much thank you thank you thank you the ad full Council for Action motion full Council second second motion made second all in favor I any opposed motion carries item number three we have transfer uh transfers and Appropriations

in accordance with provisions of chapter 44 section 32 of the Massachusetts general laws I recommend Appropriations to your honorable body that the sum of $135,700 43 be and the same as here by appropriated to the FEMA covid fund from fiscal year 23 free cash 2023 free cash on the motion C motion to to approve to adopt we we have to run it up it's already in full Council okay on a motion I just have a question

what exactly is the FEMA Co fund the package she can get from over there if she want save some steps no no she's going to Pi it to the microphone doesn't work that

way so I I hate when chairs are not pushed back in um so the FEMA covid fund was a fund that was um I don't know during covid and so there was a couple of funds but the biggest one was they were reimbursing the Federal Emergency Management Association for certain expenditures and there was a lot of confusion happening so they were saying like they're going to reimburse for all these things and

then they have now disallowed a bunch of those things so communities put things into a special fund that was outside of the general fund so they moved expenditures into that and we all had you know large deficits sitting there and as we've been I think we got our last reimbursement just a couple months ago and that was the final reimbursement that we got and we so we had to clean that up because um so essentially it

wasn't it wasn't totally a a pile of money it was a fund that so it was a fund that the city the general f so this so our cash flow it came out of our cash flow okay so we put money into it so we had to spend the money okay and then we were getting reimbursed from the federal government and so there the what you're looking at there is other expenditures

that they they thought were going to be reimbursed over the I mean I came in after it was like had ended and it was a lot of confusion and they had a lot of change over I don't know if you dealt with femur and seeon at all but yeah it was so that's so essentially this transfer was replenishing the supply of money that the city expended that wasn't reimbursed yeah so we had we had to

replenish the deficit of that fund so up until through this year um they did not hit us on free cash for this deficit but starting next year they're requiring that everybody have their deficits cleaned up in their femur accounts okay thank you you're welcome you C CC C1 CC you have a question as well um so just in terms of the fund what what type of fund was it did it require Council approval to to establish

the funds is it like a special Revenue fund is it I mean it was a federal I guess like a grant type fund I don't know if you would had approved it back in 2020 I mean that's I guess I guess so you have your your femur account sorry your femur account I mean that will happen during any federal emergency you would have that happen right so is that is that all

it is because when when you say fund I I I tend to think of either a um revolving fund or a special Revenue fund you know so you obviously got a stabilization fund so all those need to be created is this is this an established fund that this was an established Grant fund that was already so just a grant so it's just a management of the grants well it's a yeah under the Federal Emergency

Management act okay yeah thank you I yield thank you councelor item number two that the sum of 2,662 76 being the same as hereby appropriated to the FEMA covid fund from the EMS fund free cash any discussion okay it's all set a motion Finance motion to adour finance as amend seconded all in favor I any opposed Finance is now adjourned right to regular meeting city council come to order CL

call The Road Council kadim here Dion here Hart here Kilby here Pereira here bonty here Roso Samson here president CRA here 11 the council chair please rise for a moment of Silent

prayer please remain standing for SP to the flag Al to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible and justice for Madam

clerk pursu to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible cour item number one is the mayor's request for the appointment of the confirmation

of the appointment of Reverend James Horn to the community preservation committee to approve second motion to confirm as a second and all in favor I any opposed motion C has have the mayor's request for the confirmation of the appointment of Marlene Santos to the election commission motion to approve second motion to confirm has been made and seconded on the motion Cony to yeah

um I'm not going to support this not has nothing to do with the individual um I don't it doesn't matter to me who would be sent down um you know I realize that the mayor has the ability to appoint reappoint choose not to reappoint and I understand that but I have the right to not dis to disagree with removing somebody from a board or commission and this is more about taking

someone off a board who is well suited to be there um that I I truly wish I knew any one good reason why this individual should not have been reappointed and for that reason I am going to be voting no on this um like I say it it doesn't matter who the was going to be the uh person or I uh whatever that would be pointed I I would I'm just going to not support it with

that I yield thank you councel motion to confirm has second all in favor c one Sor can I just ask uh just point of information who the individual that isn't being appointed Dave tennis thank you thank you councel motion to confirm has remain seconded all in favor I any opposed C see to opposed item three is a request for the confirmation of the reappointment of Timothy Campos to the election

commission motion approve second motion confirm as a remain seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item four is the mayor's request for a confirmation of the appointment of James ckins to the zoning board of appeals motion to approve the confirmation motion to confirm the confirmation is made and seconded all in favor I any opposed carries item five are the two Financial orders the first that the sum of

135,000 77343 be and the same is hereby appropriated from the general fund FY 23 Surplus Revenue free cash to the FEMA covid fund motion to adopt motion to adopt has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries and the second that the sum of 2 million $662,000 76 B and the same is hereby appropriated from the EMS Enterprise fund FY 23 Surplus Revenue free cash to

the FEMA Co fund motion to adopt second motion to adopt as a made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries have a communication from the mayor and an a grant order in the amount of 8,613 from the mass office of outdoor recreation for the inclusive and accessible outdoor recreation events Grant Program to motion to adopt has made in second and all in favor I any opposed motion

carries the mayor's communication and the Community Development agency's 5year annual action plan motion refer to committee on finance second motion refer to committee on finance as a made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item eight is the mayor's communication and a memor memorandum of understanding between the Local 134 International Association of firefighters and the City of full River

motion to adopt motion to adopt as a remain seconded all in favor I any oppos motion carries item nine is the mayor's communication and recommendation from the city assessor and the board of assessors regarding Mass General Law chapter 59 Section 5 Clause 41st C regarding elderly exemptions motion to adopt that's a good one motion refer to the ordinance committee second that's a good one motion refer committee on

ordinance has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 10 is a communication from the mayor and a communication regarding the FY 23 Financial audit prepared by roselli Clark and Associates refer to finance motion refer to committee on finance as been made in second it all in favor I any opposed motion carries have the traffic commission making recommendation to the ordinances motion

to refer to ordinance second motion refer committee on ordinance has remain in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries the committee on Economic Development and Tourism at a meeting held on March 26th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying communication be referred to the full Council for Action so is a communication regarding potential actions that will benefit local tourism groups and the

community at large motion or adopt second it motion to adopt has been made and second all in favor I any opposed motion

carries is you want to take items 15 and 16 out of order so we can deal with the rates motion to take item 15 16 out of order has made second and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries Madam item number 15 please item number 15 is a um committee report committee on ordinances and legislation at a meeting held on April 3rd voted for y 1 n to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance

be passed through first reading with vice president Linda Pereira voting in the negative this is the fy2 sewer RS motion to passing first reading second mtion pass to first motion to pass to the first reading has made integ on the motion C T2 J um yeah I actually had some questions uh from Mr furland and some comments to make um ultimately so at the last meeting we were told that we to wave the rules for

Mr ferland to come down second I was hear a statement first but that's fine motion w l has made and seconded all in favor any opposed motion carries you can continue with your statement so at the last meeting we were told that we were going to be getting a uh copy of the PowerPoint presentation but we never did um which I wanted to go through to ask some more questions it was a long

presentation uh a lot of information to take in all at once and we never had a an opportunity to review it um good evening good evening thank you Mr so just on the comment that you just made I know uh I did forward that over to the council clerk I thought she was going to be forward fored you did receive that the presentation I I never saw it in my email I thought she was

going to forward it over to the council I I'm sorry she said she didn't know you had cop I apologize if you would like H copies I do have uh I did pass them out to ordinance committee I do have additional onight I appreciate

that okay

so one question I have which I know I don't know if we're on sewer or water right now but I'm going to kind of just do it all in one uh Westport was taking a vote on uh putting in sewer in their town that would come back to Fall River to be treated at our treatment facility what impact is that going to have on for River and who is going to bear the cost

of that so we currently uh accept sewer from Westport uh it's primarily isolated to a whes uh the two hotels in the small strip mall that's just the on the opposite side of Route 6 that feeds uh into that existing system we currently have an intermunicipal agreement with Westport as we do multiple other communities uh it it allows for their expansion that was uh done a number of

years ago approved by the council um we do not get involved with maintenance management uh Capital Improvements of their system that would be fully born the cost of the town of Westport uh and then they pay us what they send us at the Town Line so do we have a set rate that they pay for the treatment not a set rate their rate is 55% higher than what our residential rate

is and that's what we received from them that is what we received to them uh some of the intermunicipal agreements because we have one with Freetown uh Westport as well as Idan uh on the sewer Idan Wastewater district and Idan uh it's north otan fire district uh the Water intermunicipal agreement is um some of the uh more recent ones to try to um allow them to expand their customer base

like North T like Idan Wastewater district is uh up to what what their average use well we built in a percentage above their average use was 55% above uh their our residential rate uh if they go above and they increase uh what they send us uh then the overage above that drops to 5% above our residential rate but we're guaranteed that 55 on the minimum so I have something I printed out from the north

Idan fire district water department um that shows that their water usage rate per CCF is $63 okay so that so North Idan fire district receives water from both Stonebridge fire district which is also in tiin uh which gets their water from Stafford Pond and has a treatment plant and they also uh draw water from us as well and they have a North Tibetan fire district has a minimum that they need to draw from us per

year uh my colleague in seat six the last meeting um inquired into about a performance audit the cost of a performance audit have there been any discussions on that um is that something that your department will be moving forward with yeah definitely that's something that we would love to identify a funding source for um you know I think prior uh the uh council did mention some inactive uh Capital

Improvement projects to look at those um so that's something that we're looking at uh I did have discussion with uh two Consultants that uh have put together you know something like that would have to go up for procurement um but uh just for budgetary numbers I know when we were here last time the $100,000 was mentioned uh I think we may be more in the $125,000 range if we include the indirect uh expense order as

well but yeah that would that's something that I have no issue with moving forward through in both the water and SE department and do you feel that that's something that it will help to perhaps offset rates that you might be able to lower some expenses or what do you anticipate um I mean I know you know again yeah you know we're always looking for savings um within our department um

savings might not always be realized as quick as everybody would like but it's something that that we're always uh striving for um I would Implement uh you know if somebody came across a consultant came across with a uh with a straightforward idea that uh made sense for us fiscal sense for us we would move forward with that um the past audits that we've had done because they look at

everything they look at your Staffing they look at your financial capacity and stuff like that um you know I go I remember the last one that that was done uh and it kind of said that we were understaffed underfunded um you know for a department for the size of system that that we service maintain uh with a number of uh customers and stuff like that so um what whatever comes out of

this this type of report you know was something that will have to be talked about when the report's completed so couple of times tonight the subject of solar panels has come up again I've brought it up obviously my colleague in seat 5 always asks you about that yes um so I I don't know how some people are going to afford these increases I truly truly don't um you know you average 2.5 person

household at 53 ccfs a year we're looking at,000 n over $900 a year uh on for their water bills I don't know how people are going to afford it so so the increase for this for this year for the average household is $133 for water and sewer that's what the increase was from the existing um so the average uh household

Bill well I can tell you that I based my numbers on a number you gave us at a minutes from a finance meeting in 2022 that the average household uses 53 ccfs per year yep correct okay uh so again so the average household bill um uh will roughly be uh $910 per year and 55 yep that's exactly what I have um so I'm not really sure like I say there's people that are going to really really

truly struggle with this yeah and just just on that too again in in the presentation that was presented um by a consultant in one of the um one of the uh one of the things that I look at is what what it takes for an average household a household to be able to survive somebody to be able to survive in their house minus their rent whatever their rent is but they need to pay

electric they need to have some type of heating um you know everybody can say that cable and cell phone or telephone is is a um a luxury but most people nowadays feel that they need that to be able to survive if you add up all of those necessity costs include water and Sewer at these rates that's less than 8% of that total cost for the household per the per year based on Massachusetts

averages if you put all those into one bucket but if you look at them individually if you look it's a whole different picture well again gas based on Massachusetts average you're talking uh 15% of that household electric electricity 32% uh cell phone 13 uh cable 24 and then water and SE combine 8% so you've said that you've been in discussions in regards to solar panels yes um I looked so sewer treatment plant

water maintenance and distribution Water Treatment Plant total of $2,415 th000 a year that goes to electricity uh yeah that may be correct I total so if you had solar panels and reduced your usage by 25% would save $63,750 a year with $63,000 pay for these increases that they wouldn't even be necessary no just by chance how much so this increase of $2 where am I $25 per CCF for sewer and 49 cents per

CCF for water that's going to um a net gain of what so that equates to a total of the exact amounts here that equates to a total of on the water side $ 1.82 n million uh and on the suicide 5.33 million that is a huge huge increase you know again the increase is not just an increase to our budget it's the uh reduction of the use of free cash um within the budget as

well now over the next well this year and four more so over the period of five years essentially but four more years moving forward there's actually going to be a 43% increase 23% this year 5% for the next four years it it doesn't simple compound like that we would have to figure it out amzed over those years how it works so I'm I did not do that so there isn't any way that this could have

been done more incrementally again with with the rate structure that was proposed you know again the company that came in did the presentation to the council uh and um the boards um laid out the basis we needed this increase again in the beginning to make up for um underfunding within the past um and then we laid out where in the future to be financially stable to move forward uh a annual

increase over the years um if you're taking your look back historically on Water and Sewer um the uh increases have been below what the average was you know the raap Tellis Mr Fox when he was here uh believe it was five and six% annually is the average for water and sewer um respectively uh Across the Nation uh we've done under that historically uh so now we're trying to make up that

difference again one of the things that we've used historically too to keep the rates down that we don't have available this this year um fully as we have in the past is uh the retained earnings to be able to use as a revenue source to offset rate increases have there been any thoughts ideas or actions taken this year um in in terms of creating more Revenue so I can other than the

increasing the rates which is the obvious you know and again uh in the presentation we went over this in the past five years in water and sewer we've gotten over $70 million in alternative funding so that's grants that my department along with the grant writer in the city which I got to say the grant writers that the city has are phenomenal um the grants that we've been able to go

out and get um working through the srf program and being able to realize the principal reduction within that program um you know and also between the council and the administration the OPA funding that that was allocated to us so that's over $70 million just in the past five years that our rate payers will not have to pay back uh that went straight into capital projects that were some things

that could come out of the operating budget unless we wanted to uh fund a Pump Station uh out of the operating budget which we didn't don't have the capacity for um but again those were Capital Improvements um one-time monies for onetime expenses imagine if we could have put more or would have not could have because we could have without we would have put more you know that's that's one

one thing I strive for and uh you can ask any my employees or anybody that deals with me I'm always well how can we how can we make this project that need to do fit this grant how can we work you know we have great relationships whether it be the mass Works program um the municipal vulnerability preparedness program uh we've gotten multiple grants from all of those uh from all of those

uh different agencies uh time after time so you know we've built a good rapport with them they understand the type of work that we do and uh they're happy in funding our projects when they're viable so my last question is in the event and we know it's not going to happen but in the event that this Council would take an earth shattering vote and say nope we're not approving the rates this year

we have to this other than what we normally hear with layoffs and cutbacks Etc would is would is there would there be or is there a plan B that could be put in place no and again I've I've said this in the past I I really don't like answering this question because um when I sit here and I talk about having to lay off all my staff which is what these

uh what these Cuts would incur um you're talking about you know closing the gate and locking the door down at the wastewater treatment plant with with the type of types cut that we'd have to do on the sewer department um I hate sitting here saying those types of things cuz just it goes out and it's and it's a bad message to send to our devoted staff and everybody uh involved

uh other sources that we could get uh through um you know would be uh subsidized through the general fund which a lot of other communities do subsidize their water and sewer departments you've heard me say before from their general fund which is something that can be done I do not think that that is a good idea the general fund should should support themselves uh we should the Enterprise

funds are set up and I was reading through the audit earlier tonight and they're set up as business type Enterprise funds that's how it's stated in the audit from the outside independent auditor um and that's what they're supposed to do they're supposed to self fund themselves with their rates and provide all the expenses uh and all the costs right from the uh deposit so you know could the general fund sub

subsidizes us yes that is by law they could that is not something that I would recommend to do um you know other areas do we not pay our debt service again that's something that has ripple effect beyond what anybody can even imagine um you know Citywide and outside but where do you make up the you know 1.8 million and $5.3 million um when you have all of these fixed cost again you know the fixed cost

portion of this you're talking de service you're talking electric you're talking chemicals so what do we not add to the water you know for treatment do we not add sodium hypochloride you know and those aren't viable options so to say that there's a plan B where we're going to go and get X money here and be able to make the department work isn't something that's going to happen to say

that we can cut this and it's going to fit our problem isn't something that I can do no I understand that I do um and I think I mean I have tried to support you and tried to support the department and I have tried to fight tooth and nail to get more and um and I know it's a life sustained water you can't live without water and I get all

that um and I know I get beaten up when when I'm not going to support an increase uh not cuz I don't care not cuz I don't want it um I just I've gotten emails from people uh I mean there were just people who 23% is huge it it I don't care what Bill it is if my cable bill went up next month 23% I'd cancel cable and I'd find somebody I'd start

streaming well I did I have half stopped it and started streaming so I already have cut back on the money they receive um yeah no and I agree with you this you know this year is a tough increase but again you know we've heard it for years of everybody says kicking the can down the road but we're having to deal with those tough issues that have been um brought up from the past you know you

look at our expense line items we went through in the presentation our expense line items that haven't been increased in the number of years um but fire hydrants now cost over twice what they used to chemicals two to three times what they used to um so when we when we're dealing with those types of increases there's only so much that we can deal with without increasing our rates so the other day a question came

up so we hadn't been putting fluoride into the water for some time are we at this are we now back to putting fluoride in the water no so again in 2018 uh we discontinued fluoride because of the type of product that we received um um was discontinued uh we searched to try to find a compatible product with the uh equipment that the Fus system that we use at our water treatment plant

uh we were unable to find something that works there is a uh Capital Improvement replacing of that fetus system uh and upgrading of some of the compatible systems that work along with that that is needed at the water treatment plant to uh to increase to add fluoride to the water So currently we are not so has that cost still been in the budget even though we haven't been used in the

floride or was that cost taken out of the budget uh so fluoride cost when I go to my chemicals um so we were planning hopefully this year to do that Capital Improvement uh so there was a fluoride cost included within the FY 25 budget again that's something that the board of the Board of Health is essentially the Reg in the council is the regulating uh Authority B of Health would have to

recommend to the council to discontinue the use of fluoride for us to be able to discontinue it I've been in front of the Board of Health a number of times they do not feel that they want to discontinue it so we will need to make that Capital Improvement so fluoride has been included in the fy2 budget thank you with that I yield thank you thank you so I'm coming in here

hoping that you can convince me which I've been a supporter of this department when I was not here before that it makes sense to increase the rates as high as you're anticipating increasing these rates going back to 2019 we were paying $324 going back to 2020 $343 cents 2021 349 22 357 and now you're looking at a number in the fours yeah is that correct yes so I guess what help me understand what what

has changed so much that's making your department at a possible if we don't get this increase this is all going to fall apart for me when you were running in 2019 during covid more people home more problems at $324 per CCF yeah no that's that's that's reasonable question again you know um and like we talked about at the presentation you know cost across the board for everybody has gone up you

go out you buy a gallon of milk it costs more um in our specific Department again some of the things that we've seen increases on just parts and pieces and I use fire hydrants as an example but they've gone um the actual numbers here uh they've gone from uh $1,825 per fire hydrant uh up to $3,422 and we received a notice uh from our current supplier even though we go

out to bid every year uh that uh the uh price is expected to go up in additional $600 for FY 25 um so that's uh almost double since uh 2020 uh so that was um you know after 2019 uh chemicals cost has been something that's been on the increase over the years and again we had this discussion in uh 22 we had it in 23 uh and showing the increase in the chemical cost and chemical cost

there's a large cost uh with within our within our Stream So if you go into while you do that yeah in 2019 and I'm going back because that was the lowest it was at at $324 cents per C CFC UF whatever it is yep you had chemicals then yep the chemicals I listen I understand appreciation and depreciation and cost of services I get all that basic economics 101 I'm trying

to understand during a time where we had covid-19 there was more usage of water there was more of a demand within your department there was water leaks all over the place there was floods all over the place how we have increased such an exorbitant amount so actually so the usage in 2019 um in the city um a lot more people were home but there was a lot less people at businesses within the city as

well so there was PE there was people that would typically leave the city during the day uh go to work elsewhere uh they were staying home but then there was other people that would come into the city to work uh in Office Buildings that kind of averaged out throughout that year on water usage so it's not that we saw a great peak of the water usage within 2019 it's been kind of

consistent uh throughout time um so again it comes down a lot to uh what our actual expenses are um again with the chemical C cost uh doubling uh our electric cost uh increasing uh I was in front of this Council for almost two years about the salaries within our Water Division um being far too low and with this Council support we were able to bring those up uh and those we've uh We've made strides with filling

positions uh because we were down at one point uh to two licensed operators filling four shift operator spots down at our water treatment plant um so you know just a combination of those and again you know you look back you look at our um you look within the Water Division and you look back to um a number of line items uh have not been increased uh since 2019 we've been we've been running shoestring budgets um

repair of repair of vehicles is one that we increased uh this year that uh hasn't been increased for a number of years um pipes and fittings is when that was increased this year which hasn't a line item that was increased this year that hasn't been increased in a number of years um so all of those uh costs down the line that we didn't increase um for a number of years and absorbed uh the

increase um it hurt it cut us in other spots that we you know we need to correct those line items the other thing within this year again um and in the original proposed budget was was the lack of retained earnings um that we had uh again the original proposal that I gave to the council both Water and Sewer uh did not use any of the retained earnings we don't have any in sewer uh

we do have some uh in water and uh it was the ordinance committee's recommendation that uh that be used as a revenue source to all of it yes okay all of the retained earnings with So within your department uh going back to the 2019 area uh era I would call it you you you sorry yes yeah you you were your salaries were much lower I mean just like your permanent salaries ranged you know that that increased

substantially uh from $1 million to 2024 1.3 and in 2025 you're expected to be at what uh so would imagine based on the numbers you're looking at the water maintenance distribution one yep 1 4 to right so I I agree with you you found your your your your level spending within some line items but other line items have gone up right so I guess my question is with all due respect to you

and I think you're a phenomenal department head is there ever going to be a year that you come to this Council and ever say to us Hey listen we're not going to increase the rates this year and we're going to have to live within our means and chemicals didn't go up this year and I no this isn't you're doing I want to make this clear this goes back to the Lambert days when we

used onetime money to balance a budget year after year and now we have to pay the piper that's the problem the problem is the residents of this community are paying the piper everywhere mayor told us tonight we're probably going to have to go to a debt exclusion uh for for Diamond most people aren't even going to know what that means they're going to just say that means I need we're getting

a new high school to a colleague in seat one's credit who was the only one with dery who said he didn't want to vote for the debt exclusion at that time because it was a money grab so like when when is enough enough I guess is my point you know and again it's very it's very tough to say is there a year that I'm going to come down here and say that

there's no in rate increase if financially we could do that as a department yes trust me I do not want you know I don't want to be asking for additional money that's not something that I want to do that's not something that our department wants to do do we need to be able to be fiscal supportive of the work that we do yes do we need to be able to support um what we do that's

what it comes down to again this year was was you know definitely understandable a tough year you know we had it looked at Beyond us to make sure that we were in the in the ballp to make sure that we weren't crazy that's you know rapis came in and did an analysis on that to uh to make sure that you know this was best management practices that's what they do throughout

the nation is utility rate settings um look at and analys analyze water and SE budget we talked at that last meeting Mr ferland with all du respect again we didn't need somebody to come tell us our rates were too low we knew that correct we need somebody to come tell us where we can save efficiencies and look at performance evaluations and where we can find savings within uh Management

systems and solutions that's where we really need we didn't need to spend money if somebody tell our rates were too low they've been too low since 1993 so what we need to do is be more proactive in what we're trying to do with your department but I'm struggling today at this exorbitant rate increase I mean we're not talking cents right now we're we're talking big big money and and and I and i' i' you know

I'm struggling with this one I really am and I and I and I can't be I haven't been convinced yet so no I know this is again this is a tough one you know and the tough thing is for us is you look at the fixed cost that we're dealing with that's not anything that that we can go against you know our debt service just so just look at sewer our debt service has increased

uh I believe $2.5 million within this year's budget uh that's for projects that were approved by this Council approved by the voters um that are coming on board with the with The Debt Service you say approved by the voters in this Council that's two separate bodies that were approving your debt service which ones were approved by the council and which ones were so important that were approved by the voters help me

so this is so The Debt Service that's coming on board is the capital Improvement that we're doing at the wastewater treatment plan that was approved through the referendum ballot back in November 17 approved by the council and then the voters okay look um I I really want to support you I I I think very highly of you and your department but I have to I'm struggling with this I think it's it's a lot um has

the is the mayor in support of these increases as well yeah we've been I've been uh spoken with the administration uh they're the ones that send send this packet down to the council so they sent it back down was there any discussions about trying to find a way to reduce it you know again this is what was what's proposed that we need to operate our budget um we've early on naturally there

is always discussions on what to reduce and what to bring down what to cut and those discussions were had when this budget was built what if we left it exactly the way it is this fiscal year like right now we don't make a change I don't want you don't want to increase it the numbers are what they are right now what can why can't we keep it like that so with no rate increase uh again we

need to find $5.3 million to support the sewer and we would need to find $1.8 million to support the water based on usage based on us are you assuming usage is going to go down or going to go up uh I you level fund usage from the prior fiscal years so you know the again the usage is pretty constant within within the city um you see more gradual Trends over longer periods of time uh rather than

short periods of time um so you know it's it's definitely um a tough tough thing to be able to say you know you can't count your eggs before they hatch on on usage so even if we're going to have a large user come in and I think you go back to when Boston bear was talked about coming into the city um and the city uh anticipated that usage within its water budget um of

almost a million dollars and then they ended up not coming and not being able to do that so to be able to use um usage with without having that usage realized I feel would be really irresponsible um within building a budget so um you know what has just help me concretely what has changed from the year that we are in today to the year we're going in in a couple of months that is

creating this demand for $5 million additional for you to run your department black and white it's all I want to try to find out here one point 9 million reduction of retained earnings uh with within the revenue Source do you stop for that for a second that $ 1.9 million do you expect that you're going to achieve those retained earnings going into next fiscal year at the end of the year uh there will be a retained

earnings uh the way that this is structured um which is um you know financially responsible so yes what those retained earnings will be uh not sure again the rates are to support the budget as constructed okay so 1.9 million in retained earnings what what else so we lost that so that came right off the top before we even looked at the budget we already had that that to make

up if the city if the mayor would to give you $1.9 million from the free stabilization account uh to adjust your retain earnings which I understand is a structural deficit and I've been debt against for six years now eight years whatever it is but you're expecting to get retained earnings in a future fiscal year how would that impact the rate so how would that impact the rate if I

was given $ 1.9 million 49 C per CCF according to my esteemed colleague in C

2 uh 70 cents 70 cents okay so we this city has been using arper money like it's going out of style I mean everybody's got onetime money to balance their budgets for the last four years everybody we have one year left to use Opera money it's tell me why retained earnings and utilization of stabilization how is that differ so use of retained earnings or stabilization would would it's a

one-time money that you're pluging back into the budget um arpa funds could not be used within Enterprise funds as a revenue Source like they were allowed to within the general fund they can find a million dollars in their budget from from my understanding but underneath the OPA Opera guidelines and I'm not saying that but we they've been taking millions of dollars a year out of their Capital

needs within their Municipal budget for the last four years and they haven't replenished it so like we've set up all these structural deficits y we're entering into a time where Diamond's coming on we're entering a time where dery is on I mean like I'm just wondering I've been against using onetime money but retained earnings and stabilization how does that differ because it's onetime money and it's not

necessarily budgeted yeah so for my understanding this this stabilization fund so stabilization fund is a kind of totally separate independent fund savings account something that you want to put money in not touch unless you know something really disastrous happen has that ever happened uh we've never had a stabilization account in the past except we do have uh stabilization account now roughly about

$700,000 water 700 in sewer so what do you do with that $700,000 stabilization that stays within the stabilization fund every year yep um why won't you use that again that's highly I mean the city has a stabilization account that the mayor said at the state of the city like how much $20 million or something like that $26 million if the water department needed a million dollars I mean who on

this council is going to say no to a transfer something like that you know again that's besides C it's not sustainable that's the problem you just all du respect Mr President with all due respect Mr President this Council for the last four years has been passing unsustainable budgets you've been us you used $5 million essentially last year in in one in in onetime money you've used stabilization

in the past to balance budgets which you say you're against but yet you're asking us to do it again well no what I'm what I'm trying to find out is how we can we've been doing it for you've been doing it for four years why are we all of a sudden going to stop doing it right now you've been you this Council has on the record used onetime money to balance their budgets in every other department

so at what point do we stop doing it you want to continue to Kick the Can down the road is that what you're saying so so what do we I guess my question is I'll Conor that argument by saying what are we going to do this fiscal year with the municipal budget that you're using onetime money on I cannot answer I know you can I'm asking the president what's the question again the question is the administration

came down and they're using onetime money to balance this fiscal Year's budget in 2025 what are we going to do about that then what are we going to do about it you can vote against it if you don't want to use it oh of course we can but that's why I can vote no on this too but I'm trying to say no one saying you shouldn't vote no against if that's what

you feel you want to do I I understand that I'm not trying to have a debate with you honestly I don't but I'm trying to find ways where we could save money and not continue go to the rate payer and that's where we're at right now so let me try to explain why we're in where we're at we don't have Swan finishing anymore we don't have Dural textile anymore we don't have all the die

companies that were using tremendous amount of water years ago where the residents weren't get hit with that so if we want to do better rates for our residents we need to get people they going to start using the waters let's bring back do the industrial park not use the water not as much as you think they do not many companies are all they don't use water what do they use it for

they don't produce anything that it's waterbased so that's the problem that we have that's problem that we had when Boston beer he said it Boston beer came on we were all thrilled we were going to sell an awful lot of water and make an awful lot of money they decide to go somewhere else so until people realize and a companies that use a lot of water realize that what you pay for water in

Four River is a lot less expensive than what you pay anywhere in the State uh and and actually all of New England and they want to bring their facility here to take advantage of the best clean W they can find until we make an effort to get people who are going to use the water we're going to run into this problem because it's not that the homeowners are using less water we are

conserving more ways but the major water users have left Fall River and they've left all of New England and they've left everywhere so that's the problem it's if we could sell more water right it's not about we use less we pay more no you use less you're going to pay less but if the city sells less then overall the rates have to subsidize the event of keeping the thing floating as he's trying to do

now so I agree with you this is not an easy vote for anyone and I'm not trying to tell anyone to vote for it or against it but I can tell you this what we're trying to do here and what the Mr Phil is trying to do is use every resource he can and get it to the point where we won't be in this predicament every year of having to subsidize the water account

as we've been doing in the past that people such as yourselves people such as Council kadim myself want to get away from using one-time Monies to supplement budget that we need to be able to sustain itself what is the difference between retained earnings and stabil the utilization of the city's general fund help me understand the difference between the two is it or is it not onetime

money that directed to me station Mone get Lo from free cash but Council you want to explain yeah I can answer that if if you go to the general fund you're going you're going to need it every single year so you're going to just start taking revenue from the general funds all it is stabilization account is truly just one time money once you drain down the stabilization account the difference between that and retained

earnings is what retained earnings is free cash they just call it yeah we call it retain earing so it's the prior year expenses minus the revenues look I've labored the point the council is going to vote as they weigh but I'm just going to make this clear we can all have conversations about what it helps us in terms of making our arguments in terms of using one time money the city and

this Administration have been using onetime money to balance budgets let's not make a mistake about it we're he's trying to find resources I'm not saying that this is the end all solution it has been what has happened in cities and towns and we all want to try to get away from it but I just don't feel that enough has been done to Warrant an increase this high and I went into this

debate trying to find every reason to try to support this like I've done in the past but I'm struggling because I'm not finding it so until then I'll let my colleague speak I'm going to yield for now I appreciate the conversation thank you C so do I C SE I just have two questions uh Mr thrin how many fire hydrons did you buy this year um this year so far I would say 15

15 not a lot but I use that you do developments when they developers come in and do an area they pay for the fire hydrant yes okay again other thing the fire hydr as an example just to show the pots and pieces what the increases were but it's even like the pots and pieces instead of running to Home Depot and buying one we should have a supply of

all the pots that we need so if you have extra money to do that you pay less and we go out to you have a supply we go out to bid every year so we get the best value some of the fittings I've seen your guys at Home Depot picking up parts so come on but come on but what I want to say is you know I'm really a proponent of getting uh solar panels and

when you were here with that gentleman and you did the propos of the uh presentation which was very good you said you didn't put solar panels on the new building because we would have to buy them and maintain them so I would suggest that you talk to Mr Pico because out of the five schools that he has solar panels on there's only one that the city maintains the other the company

maintains and we still get a profit on it y yeah so that's a way my friend wants to see how you can save money you'd save a lot of money on electricity there and I'm happy that you're looking into the surage treatment plan too but one Department should work with another department we're all in the same city together so if Mr Pico knows of some companies that do that you know I'm sure you're paying amorisco you're

getting a lower rate I hope you are but if he knows of a few people talk to him it's only going to help the taxpayers in with that I yield a thank you C1 did you have your hand up or no no I was just I get it asking who was going to vote against the any further questions there any further questions from Mr fing no thank you Mr f for

appreciate it roll call thank you very much can you just m clerk just clarify what the vote is so we'll know what we're voting on when we do the vote call so the item before you right now the 25 sewer rates and there was a motion on the floor to pass through first reading second roll call broll call on the sewer rates councilor's Kadeem yes Dion no Hart yes Kilby yes

Pereira no Ponty no raposo yes Samson yes president Camaro yes item number 16 is a committee report committee on ordinances and legislation at a meeting held on April 3rd voted four y one nay to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance be passed through first reading as amended with vice president Linda Pera voting in the negative these are the fy2 water rates motion to adop Second mot to has a

remain seconded roll call on the water rates as amended council is kadim yes Dion no Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira no Ponty no Roso yes Samson yes president kamaro yes back to item 13 the committee on finance at a meeting held on March 26th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying budgets be referred to the full Council for action with councilor Kadeem absent and not voting this these

are the fy2 water and sewer division budgets motion to adopt motion to adopt as made second second second roll

call we were um Mr President just for clarification the council was presented with an amended budget by the water department based upon the um potential reduction in the water rates is that the budget that the council wishes to vote upon um so that should have probably to the of the council so the budget we're voting on is the amended version of the water they produced amended as amended second yeah

are we sure that's the rates Council came out of the committee that it's based on the rate that came out of committee which was four am24 as opposed to 436 that's fine thank you M for clarifying that no problem motion to adopt as amended has been made and seconded roll call that should have been adopted first before we voted on the budget no no because well you voted it you just pass

the rates the right way Vice President we took it out of order so that we could pass the rates first pass the rates first before we pass the okay that's right um okay so for Passage through um excuse me for adopting the budgets as amended council is kadim yes Dion no Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira no HTI no Roso yes Samson yes president CRA yes item 14 is a committee report the committee on ordinances and legislation

at a meeting held on April 3rd voted unanimously to recommend the accompanying proposed ordinance be passed through the first reading this is miscellaneous traffic motion to pass through first reading second motion to pass through first reading has a meeting seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries the committee on ordinances and legislation at a meeting held on April 3rd voted unanimously to

recommend that the accompanying resolution be referred to cooperation Council this resolution um related to the ratification of constable appointments motion to refer to Corporation councel second motion refer to Corporation Council has remain in seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries motion to take 18 18 through 20 together second motion to take items 83 19 and 20

together has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries motion Grant Le withraw motion to Grant leave to withdraw to items 18 19 and 20 has been made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 21 is a proposed ordinance for Passage through second reading and enrollment and it relates to miscellaneous traffic motion so made second motion to adopt to adopt has been

made and seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries where as many high-profile lawsuits are ongoing against the city and whereas the city of full River has used outside Council for many of these lawsuits as they provide a crucial role in helping to navigate these legal challenges and whereas the expenditure of funds towards legal fees court costs and additional expenses can accumulate

rapidly now therefore be it resolved that the administration and Corporation Council prepare a Report with information regarding the dispersement of funds in relation to this ongoing litigation and provide this data to the city council within the next 30 days motion to adopt second motion to adopt has been made and second on the resolution sponsor resolutions C I just find that sometimes when we send

something to Corporation councel it goes into a black hole and we never get it back so that's why I put on here within 30 days I want to know I mean we have budget coming up what are all these lawsuits doing are we hiring outside lawyers uh people inhouse doing that we have no clue and I just um want to know so hopefully we'll get it within 30 days you yield councelor I yield thank

you councelor motion has been made second all in favor I any opposed yeah motion carries item 23 is a citation motion adopts second motion to adopt the citation has remain in seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries item 24 is the order granting per mission to Brandon Dello for the removal of curbing on Division Street motion to adopt second motion to adopt as a second all in favor I any opposed motion

carries have the police chief's report motion to adopt motion to adopt Chief's report has made and seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries item 26 is an application for an auto repair shop license renewal on behalf of William Sanchez we have received um notification of the denial of the police chief City collector and Deputy tax collector uh does it say why it was denied was it the police chief

denied um based upon a non-renewable license status um his address City collector because there was there's a wateran on the property and the deputy tax collector um claimed that there were open parking and excise tickets not in full River but it was on the record we could refer to regulations refer to regulations I always like to give people CH refer to committee on regulations has

been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 27 is the request for the transfer of an auto repair shop license at one 82 Stafford Road motion to adopt second second motion to adopt has remain in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 28 are the applications for renewal of auto body shop licenses one is for Antonio Pinto at 2447 South Main

and the other is for William Sanchez at 103 Shavon street again this is um again the second one didn't get but Antonio Pinto yes is is that one we can can we take them separately we can separate the two yes okay motion to take split 28 motion to adopt Antonio Pinto motion to adopt second as made in second all in favor I and the motion for William Mr Sanchez motion to refer to regulation

second motion for Mr sanest to regulations have remain seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries we have a number of claims motion to refer to Corporation councel motion for the Corporation Council second all in favor I any opposed motion carries by renewal of drain layer licenses motion to approve second motion to approve the second all in favor I any opposed motion carries think we have a brief

recess to sign the ordinance Council recess to sign the ordinance minutes

recess

city council reconvene and clerk the last item we have is the ordinance for Passage through second reading and enrollment and ordination second passor second reading en and ordination made in second all in favor I any opposed motion carries motion to ADOT to adj has been made in second all in favor any opposed motion carries good night everybody good job

tonight heyyyy hey hey hey

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