The Policy Subcommittee of the Fall River Public Schools met on Monday, May 22nd, at 5:30 PM. The meeting began with a roll call, noting Mr. Bailey and Mr. Hart present, followed by the Pledge of Allegiance and an open meeting law announcement. During citizens' input, Colandius of 560 Race Street advocated for clearer public notices and agenda descriptions for policy changes. The subcommittee discussed several policy additions and deletions. Under item 3.01, policies related to School Improvement Plan development, harassment of students, and district employees' cell phone use were reviewed. Concerns were raised by Mr. Dragon about the MASC template language, particularly the requirement for monthly school council meetings and the need for Fall River-specific policies. The employee cell phone policy, which outlined prohibited activities and a penalty of phone removal, was referred to the technology subcommittee for further review to include disciplinary actions. The other two policies under 3.01 were deferred for revisions. Item 3.02 involved the deletion of policies, including an outdated technology donation policy due to cybersecurity risks. Mr. Dragon questioned the presence of irrelevant or outdated policies, such as one on corporal punishment, in the manual. A motion to delete the listed policies passed 2-0. Under item 3.03, updated technology policies were discussed. Mr. Cabral presented formatting changes to policies like "Bring Your Own Device" (BYOD), "Social Networking Websites," and "Permission to Public Student Information" to facilitate digital signatures via Parent Square. The "Access to Digital Resources" policy saw fee increases for Chromebook replacements (up $25 to $275) and new prohibitions against using AI/ChatGPT for assignments. The BYOD policy was voted to be deleted 2-0, as the district now provides Chromebooks. Further discussion on other updated policies, including inconsistencies in the "Walkers and Writers" policy and the need for clarity on parental access to security camera footage, led to a motion to forward all remaining updated policies, allowing the superintendent to make further changes, which passed 2-0. New business included a request from Mr. Dragon for a substantial discussion on the DGA (Authorized Signatures) policy and the creation of a consistent salary structure policy for administrators.
AI-generated summary. May contain errors. Watch the video to verify.
Education
Public / Other
uh welcome to the uh the policy subcommittee meeting today is Monday May 22nd and we're starting at 5 30. uh could we have a roll call let's try again Mr Bailey yeah Mr Hart here on Salute to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with Liberties and justice for all open meeting law uh pursuant to the opening meeting while any person make an
0:38audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting from any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings of Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible and then we have citizens input we do okay can you read that thank you good afternoon I understand and I respect the
1:06tremendous work there is to do regarding the policies of the foreign Public Schools I understand the school committee has a focus of making sure all of our policies are all encompassing for every employee and that we are operating within confines of the law with that being said as we change and modify our policies we need to make sure we keep the public informed along the way I believe it is
1:32important we provide descriptions on the public notice for every policy we have on the agenda I do not believe the public is going to understand the random letters that each represent to specify to each specific policy I believe the agenda is confusing I believe the public should be able to follow along and easily understand the agenda without being fluent in Ouija boards it is important that we remain fully
2:03transparent and keep the community informed in any way we possibly can thank you to the members for your time and I would again like to commend the hard work and dedication of each member of this subcommittee and the committee as a whole colandius 560 Race Street thank you thank you Deb so the first on the agenda is 3.01 a discussion and vote to refer to review the addition of the following policies
2:30School Improvement plan development and dissemination of procedures harassment of students District employees cell phone policy um superintendent yeah what you have in these policies is you have some consolidation so the old policy with the new policy if you uh in the old policy they broke it down in paragraph form and then they specifically bulleted it out um were very specific with um the actions that were taken so
3:00um saying the same thing but they're being much more specific and making sure they're calling out each section more more specifically that's for the school Improvement policy the development dissemination procedures again um what they have here it's all in paragraph form and the old policy if you look at the new one they've broken it down what the city the school council one of the changes is that they used to
3:27just used to say they will meet regularly now specifically calling out that they're meeting monthly and it also in each of the actions they're specifically calling out the actions and what their responsibilities are okay now are these um pretty much I think it's kind of a template for like you were talking before about the Desu this ISC so these are the policies that are distributed
3:56and they are we use them to develop our own policies some a lot of them they already if they're already saying what we need to to be said in our policy we adopt their policy and at times when we have other policies that are not part of masc which we vet through our eternity um and create our own policy in in different areas but um these policies in particular all
4:19these that today and next week that are being referred to um in regards to masc those are updated language changes yearly we get that this year for some reason we have like 80 policies that are that we have some language changes or consolidations and that you're seeing half of those today and you'll see the other half on next week okay all right uh so harassment of students that's so again this is part of the updated
4:48policies based on some changes that took place in the uh in the Mass general laws it also changes the definition to expand the language uh that qualifies under race-based discrimination or harassment um and um it cites the Mass General legislature update in the acts of 2022 chapter 117. it's essentially the same policy we already had just with the expansion language and an update to the 2022 reference for the law
5:21yers here okay we're on 3.01 Mr Aggies and Scott did you want to discuss the uh yeah employees of cell phone calls oh this would just be an addition um in collaboration with the Mass Tech directors many districts are moving to um just have employees sign something that when they have a district-owned cell phone biggest change here is going to be moving forward on July 1st we're going to do away with individual apple
5:50IDs on District phones and the district will have an Apple ID for all of their phones the cell phone will be um managed through an frps console so that the end user does not have to worry about installing their own apps moving forward and you know just encompassing No gambling visiting pornographic websites campaigning online stop trading you know so on um just some language that the employees know that it's a
6:18district device just like a laptop or a Chromebook moving forward are there any questions for so it says on here that includes unlimited talk text and thing free apps the part about the activities prohibited gambling visiting porn sites campaigning online stock trading like at the end it says any violations may result in removal of the phone so if we get somebody that's on a district cell phone and they're using
6:54for their school phone for Pawn things like that the penalty for that is they don't use a phone anymore no because you're talking about two different things right I I agree because and we probably need to add the language or could result in because it has to be disciplinary peace that wouldn't fall under Mr um Cabral but I agree um if somebody is misusing their device part of the technology issue is they
7:26would lose that technology but there also would be some disciplinary action in regards to yeah I mean that needs to be called out some of the policies that we have and then it doesn't once we get rid of things I think I mentioned this before we get rid of things and it's like well what happened before what is so there's got to be more of a reference because I'm reading this
7:46and that's what this looks like to me so could we refer this to the technology subcommittee meeting that meets on the sixth and then we'll have time to get it to the the full meeting on the 12th by the way and I can make those changes is there any motion to do that show me a second roll call Mr Dragon did you want to go of the top three we've been talking to discuss
8:07those the only question there's a lot of pages I don't know if somebody could quickly summarize what the it seemed like a lot of pages of school consoles and yeah um and I can just go over that again so if you look at the school council um what they've done these is Consolidated some of the information right so I'm looking at the school Improvement plan first um the new policy if they're calling out
8:32specifically the the some of the actions that our school council says once a month they're meeting now they're saying once a month is a requirement before I used to say meet regularly as principals we used to meet at least quarterly in buildings now the the um policy says will need monthly outside of school hours okay I don't know that it always happened in every single School outside
8:56of school hours that's a recommended that's the policy now that it has to happen right so they're just being very specific about the actions right but I think that's some of my um top brand that I get from some of these policies is this looks like to me it's a recommended policy for Mass Association of school yes generally speaking but we approve policies that are related to Fall River
9:22Fall River Public Schools just because they have something they recommend isn't doesn't mean we have to do it I think we've generalized too many policies over the years that aren't individualized to Fall River that's so like yes explaining that about the once a month well do you think that once a month is good if we had quarters has it been bad has it been I'm not asking for an answer but
9:45this is so I want a policy that you and your team would recommend to say here's how we think we should do school councils personally I think once a month is a lot just having to work in a school and knowing how busy things get this is pigeonholing if we approve this policy and I didn't look to all of them with a fine tooth comb like this but why would we tell somebody it has to be
10:06smoking sometimes people that are taught to even get people to get on it and then what happens if we don't so I don't really want to approve for policies that masc recommends without you going through it and say this is what we recommend tweaking out of this whatever that's just my thought on it I think over the years I've seen too much boilerplate template language be approved and sometimes we didn't have it
10:32wrong to begin with right I I so the masc that's all their policies legally so so I understand what you're saying first of all the policies I went through the bind I went through the policy uh I agree with you it is very hard for school councils to to get people period right because school first of all School counsel is different than PTO right they serve a different purpose and it is very
10:59hard to get that set body to meet regularly and to because they really should be an an addendum like an a they're a governance body for the school and be working alongside the principal um I mean I I do think that there's value in using masc as a guide as I said before um you came here um was that we use them as a guy and there are some policies that we personalize for ourselves and customize
11:28based on our need um I think that I I'd like to think that's good practice that we're doing but we can certainly go back and look at them and see if um if that makes sense to do it once a month or continue to do it quarterly well what would that like what would all your principals think what do they think of this I think the principals would say quarterly right so
11:51like they just and I'm not I just happen to be the first one so yeah I didn't go through this every reading every one but that's kind of an example of what I'm suggesting is that it has to be something that makes sense for you with your team your principals or whoever at that point they say yeah we think this is okay except for the fact that it should be quarter leads that whatever
12:09that should get done and then it should come before the policy subcommittee in my personal opinion but it's and the only question I have in the school Improvement plans was the there was old stuff in here and then right the new like Consolidated on the information from one to the other in the actions when did it change that you had to have the school committee agree and vote on the school time
12:39um I I will have to get that date for you it was not because it wasn't 2010 yeah it wasn't that long ago in my mind so as I'm in 2010. well according to here it says like with this old policies that said adopted in 2010 but I recall least like probably five six years ago that there was a change in the law that said we only get to review them right
13:01right which is we used to have to vote like we don't have to vote yes or no on every single you'll accept them we kind of now just review them for whatever reason they say but when I'm looking back here and it says 2010 I'm like did we not have that policy correct yeah I think that um the school Improvement plans are supposed to be brought to school committee and school committee votes to accept them gives
13:25feedback or whatever but they're developed in conjunction with the teams at school-based teams based on and they're aligned to the district Improvement plan um certainly yeah you just look at it I was just curious to see when it was what that's just going to do is it's going to guide us to figure out what's worked and not worked in the past because if the last thing was said 2010 it was reviewed
13:46but accepted so then let's just make it up the 2017 they said would no longer have to vote on them whatever that date was well what happened in 2017 why didn't we have that be the most current right that would be uh and the harassment one we had talked about other ones I don't know I think if this is just template we have a much bigger harassment ours is more detailed
14:14right so I don't know why we're doing this one this is this is there we still have ours ours is in here you'll see ours is still in here ours is actually more in depth than masc right so if everything that's in this one that Mas is recommending which I think we used when Mr Coogan presented the one for us so if everything that's in this one is already included in us why are we even having
14:39this cook because this it just it has a legal reference in here for the AXA 2022 and it does expand the language on race-based discrimination element is like a couple of words that are in there right so as the one that we did you know you led the thing if that's what they recommend and the only two little pieces are those things added to us because we don't need a policy book that's this big and you'll
15:06go to print it on the computer and it's 895 Pages nobody's ever going to look at it but like I think we had a harassment debate we had to policy so now like I don't think we need more of them is my guess is thank you so we get a vote on the uh referral to um technology it's going to be referred to the technology not to next week we're meeting next next no it's going to
15:31go to the technology yes Mr Bailey yes Mr Hart yes um and now do we we have to deal with the three uh three that are attached to uh 3.01 or you can defer and next week we'll bring the revisions and then you can vote on it next week so we'll just go on to 3.02 discussion in votes refer to review the deletion of the following policies that the right there you want to go over
16:06those those these policies in particular um there's a list and those if you notice on the agenda those are they're a word or two grammatical that is very very limited changes there so um that there's very little that has to be changed so we're going to remove the technology donation policy This was um written back in 2000 uh we no longer take that you know donations in um we are a Chromebook District now and
16:43I am very uneasy taking any other technology in because of you know cyber security malware and virus risk um so we no longer want to take donations in rotate um monitors and stuff like that but that usually goes to a donation on the school committee agenda so we'd like to remove that policy okay there any questions if I could just I'm sorry I made a mistake I was one item ahead this these particular
17:07policies are being removed okay from the um policy manual they're being recommended for removal for deletion if you notice that I think five of the first six are actually part of the previous consolidation it's up in 3.01 and uh there are a few policies down below that there that language appears elsewhere in the policy manual amount so they're recommending deletion of those is there any questions Australia so
17:41like how do we end up with some of these maybe that's something we can track back as I said before I think we have too many policies that don't make any sense whatsoever and we I at some point we not we meaning the people that are here but at the time whenever this you track it back and realize look at all these policies where did we do and I think
18:02it's because we said oh this is what masc said this package of 800 Pages let's just approve them all they're in them there are a number there are a number of policies that you'll see in the list today and and perhaps um perhaps we should share that this is the the summary they sent down which is just a grocery list for the policies that appear in our meeting today but some of
18:23these policies we never adopted when we looked at them they didn't apply to us so you'll see some of the policies that are listed in this document that we don't even have which we've deleted from from from most of the material that you see so if it's if it's not a policy that we ever adopted it won't be in the it won't be but it's not in here it might
18:40not be in there no if they send you an update or a note on it to say delete this policy if you look in our policy menu it's not there we never adopted so maybe somebody it's not on here then it shouldn't be so it's a policy reference for us every single policy that's ever written is a result of something right and then they create a policy to address something every single policy in the
19:04policy manual is not part of our policy manual but when do we go through our our policy manual and say these are things that just don't make any sense anymore and that's the part that I'm just trying to figure out how did we get a policy manual that had all this stuff in it like jka corporal punishment the power of the school committee or any teacher committed to maintain discipline on
19:30school property shall not include the right to inflict corporal punishment upon any student established by law okay like why like why are we dealing with that why is that part of uh it's against the law like it's not well it's not against the law but it doesn't mean that it I mean if it's against the law we can't do it in the school but it says we can't
19:50do it but I'm saying that if it is done you have a policy to refer to but if it's against the law so it says adopted December 13 2010. I think that's the key date so so we originally did this we had a policy menu for the district that I'd probably I'm going to say somewhere between 30 and 50 policies that was but not very deep I think Ed co-star had
20:11done a lot of that work on it and that's what existed so they come down with their Master template and it has sections a through I think it goes up to L and all of those policies they go through and we sat for say 14 months 10 10 12 14 months a section at a time sometimes you met twice a month and then go through every one of the policies and some if someone
20:33would say okay let's all riverize this one to make it more applicable to us and in some cases we said we don't do that or we don't that doesn't apply to us maybe it was a Regional School District policy or something like that but there were a number of them that we swept out the first time but masc still maintains their Master file so when they dump out a list of update or so reviews some of
20:54those policies that they're pushed out as an update may not even be in our policy I mean to begin with but the original work that was done back in 09 and 10 was done by the committee at the time there was a subcommittee like this and we sat through multiple multiples no I I'm not looking to go back and revisit it the thing I'm asking is to for you to
21:13go back and look and say how did we end up here so in 29 2009 let's say we had 100 policy whatever 40 50 policies after they got done with their work and it still looks like December 13 2010 we had 847. yeah that's what I'm looking for to try to track it back and see what makes sense what doesn't I'm not necessarily opposed to getting rid of them but if we don't
21:37go back we're going to keep on the same we're going to just keep doing the same thing so I'm seeing motion to uh delete the following a second so roll call yes yes uh for some for 3.03 discussion and vote to refer to review the updated policy I'm just going to go right to uh Mr cabral's uh policies the first one is the bring your own device this was just formatting the language is um
22:10this is literally I just wanted to format all of the tech policies to look the same look for some grammatical areas there weren't on the language in this is where we want to be with or bring your own technology for students and staff that may bring their own technology although we've seen a big shift now that every student has a Chromebook we're really only seeing to bring your own
22:29technology for staff some staff like to bring their MacBook uh stuff like that so that one is just a formatting then when you go down our list here to the other technology policy the Middle School acceptable use and Elementary School and staff are all same wording just format changes to make them all look the same I went with this formatting because moving forward we're going to use parent Square for digital
22:53signatures next school year so this is the format if you notice on the windows and the in the margins this will fit into parent Square so we can zap it out to staff students families and get digital signatures moving to a paperless and have a depository of all the signatures moving forward social networking websites the same thing um formatting so that I can again send this out to staff it is my goal and
23:19Central office's goal that all of the technology policies moving forward will be signed off on every year so they'll be able to be sent out via parents Square to staff students and families permission to public student information again same form formatting so that we can send it out digitally moving forward the last policy is the access to digital resources and you'll notice there are just some changes in yellow the
23:49um more unimportant I would guess is you're going to notice that the fees have gone up a bit the school committee had voted to do a Chromebook refresh at a few of the elementary schools middle and high those devices are actually priced a little bit more right now so you'll notice a Chromebook replacement went up 25 to 275.
24:09um and they're just some other words in there um now seeing through a full year of using the policy um one example digital devices software and network shall be used in school for educational purposes and activities only before religious activities um just strengthening some of um The Language School responsibilities provide internet and email access to your child while on school grounds
24:34however there is the bills program which will be sunsetting after next school year those devices have the LTE data but we just wanted to make sure that the web you know that the language was cleaned up and then one of the ones that I did add in Student Activities which were strictly prohibited using services such as AI or chat GPT to write papers or complete assignments and bypassing the
25:01frps web filter through a web proxy we've seen that um exponentially grow students trying to bypass filters and the last big change that I made is cases are installed on Chromebooks with the last purchase Mr aguir you know technology subcommittee and then the full committee cases are now installed on the Chromebooks moving forward those cases must remain on the Chromebooks so that's all I really have
25:26for changes again all of the policies except the access to digital resources for formatting so that we can start to use a paperless product moving forward and decimate them through parent Square okay um why do we have a bring your own device policy um just because of of where we are um it covers Us internally if there's a break on a device when someone brings a device in we also have some of the high school
25:51students that have a um electronic gaming Club after school so they're bringing in there like state of the art like gaming computer so it's just something to cover us because if it breaks while it's on school property the language in there is it's not our issue and we also filtered them out to a guest Network which has super compliant filtering except it's it's funneled out to a different network
26:12right but it says here therefore we have decided to implement bring your own technology at our schools in this initiative students are encouraged to bring their own technology devices to school to assist their learning experiences I don't think that's what you're referring to like I thought we got rid of things that's from the old policy we can delete that if you have a club like you just said or whatever that
26:35should be a separation right I think it's confusing if you told me this if I saw this and I was a student and I wanted to bring my iPad whatever I'm bringing it so then we're going to get into it if I start using then you're going to say hey that's on my device that's not you if we get paid we already spend all the money why the heck will you letting anybody bring any devices in
26:53if it's if it's the world of committee we'll we'll delete the policy I just I like let's say you what you said which I never knew about the gaming Club but you have a gaming club that you have to sign up for to join the gaming Club the rules of the gaming Club are you're not bringing the device like that could be a separate this is confusing to like it's like if you're a baseball player or
27:17a football player you don't bring your your equipment and carry it around school with you but we don't have a policy that says you can't have have uh controller packs well no but it would be like a permission yeah it doesn't work
27:36when we didn't have enough devices we were encouraging people to bring their own now we paid for all the devices I say that we don't have anything fun with that Monique let's make a motion to delete a second um before we vote do we have anything more to discuss on those others no like I said it was all formatting changes other than some word strengthening in the access to digital resources and that
28:00uh long list of policies that are there are I just have one question about the bymd is that discontinued from both staff and students are just students that was for students that wasn't for staff that was students right so the the long list of policies uh here um that's just a word or a couple of nothing changes the policy itself but they cleaned up language so in in some cases using Pro different pronouns or
28:31um uh there was a grammar mistake or so there's nothing in there that uh interests the policy itself the policy Remains the Same but they cleaned up language here in each of these policies nothing nope no content I'm looking at the Walkers and writers policy where it articulates the one mile from school yeah whatever another mile and a half will create different grades and then I don't
29:01believe that that's what we're doing it's not the two are not compatible the Fall River one has the full review of policy for transportation and the the external one is a different set that's going by state Register right I I that was way before my time but I would I think that the somewhere along the line either the school committee or somebody made that decision to um change the from one and a half to one
29:29mile no I'm not debating that part what I'm saying is what I'm reading in this e e a a is a policy that doesn't coincide or doesn't agree with what our internal policy is so that's the boilerplate that came from right now so that needs to be my I have that highlighted in my as something that needs to be changed but what what where is that I just don't
29:55maybe maybe it's me I'm not sure but I'm seeing this whole laundry list of policies and I'm trying my best to figure this out like as we're going leading but they shouldn't have one that like this is an example of this shouldn't even be here it doesn't apply to it doesn't apply to us because we should have maybe the boilerplate saying students are entitled to whatever you know and then it references some other
30:16uh policy then it just doesn't seem clear like so I I annotated the way that where it was different the language and the policy is the same the language and the numbers is not the the boundaries so right so what I'm saying is I think you understand what I'm saying if I'm telling this the template language says this so if you're in grades one through five because we have like this even shows grades four to six
30:40we don't group our kids by that so it should say in the only policy we have if there needs to be a policy is what we do not what they say is General but let's create that one and let's create this one and then have people figure out which is which so like I think if this piece is like that throughout this we should tighten it up and then which I think we have time
31:06because this other there's another but I was looking at the security cameras one um it's highlighted in yellow a few things about access to the recordings shall be limited to school administrators superintendents School principal designate I think it needs to say somewhere in here whether there's a parent can see that because I think that's very much like let me see that you know we have a
31:36reason you you can come up with a reason why we would we wouldn't whatever the but the more that security cameras are in use I think we need some sort of language around it so that we're protected in that saying no we don't show that to guardian's parents or whoever other kids in it or we do but just I think a recommendation of a little more uh I don't know
32:02a little more meat on there because I'm seeing I'm reading this and if I take that matter of fact that means any principle that showed a video to a parent or a guardian is violating policy because that's not in yellow so if that's in white that means that's our current policy so therefore any administrator or principal or whoever that showed a video is violating our policy and I'm not so sure that's
32:27there might be cases where you might want to do that within constraints but exactly this would be violating it if we didn't it would never be disseminated but there might be instances where parents came in and saw it with the SRO or with reference I think it's a legitimate reason why like I punch them in the mouth and you they say no I didn't and then you go to me on video
32:47doing it that might be a good reason to show it but our policy should allow for it'll make sense somebody to so I I think we just gotta so that's the policy that you might adjust for the technology well we could always come back next week as well clean up the language all right are there any other questions or any motions are we going to vote on the information first yes to the Lord bring
33:17your own policy yep I'm sorry Mr I yeah yes Mr Bailey yes Mr Hart yes any other questions for the other policies Australia good one that is uh obviously we've got more meetings come up so on DGA about authorized silent I think that's something that we should have a most substantial discussion about um DocuSign yeah because like I understand the rationale of the times when people need to sign whatever but
33:50the ruling the reason why members would have to sign things is for checking a balance to be able to do that and I think we've personally I think we've gone a little too far to not perform it so we went from make it a little easier to make it a little easier now we're I think we're streamlining it too much but that's a subtle figure but I think too
34:09we did that I think he was doing covet too didn't we approve wasn't that approved during covet yeah it's not it wasn't just that it's no it's most if not all districts Statewide are moving to streamline the process right the reason we're doing that is because of how long it takes to pay vendors like I think it was just that that because of covet it also was helpful well we're trying to move to
34:32more of a paperless system as much as we can so that's if that's part of this whole thing yeah I think I mean we can improve it but just I think you're hearing the feedback that I'm trying and I think it's worthy of another yeah discussion with the full committee to say what do we do what don't we do because we should be we should be monitoring some of that and I think we just went a
34:55little too far it's my personal opinion I'll make a motion to forward all these and the superintendent has any changes along the way you know you have more experience yeah roll call let's try again yes yes Mr her yes uh next oh any new business here in Norman business the only thing I never talked about this my own superintendent was uh for the next meeting I do think that and I think you
35:21said you're going to bring it the policy related to the salaries the salary structure so I'd like to ask that that be on our next agenda for the policy that the school committee I went back to look at the minutes on that to look at the video and stuff there was not a vote on that for us to create a policy so I I don't know how the committee wants to do
35:43you want us to just make it suggested and then you guys can vote and refer so like okay yeah I guess so other members can hear what we're talking about not understand what we're talking about we've had back and forth sometimes about we're wondering why when a person gets hired they go on this step versus that step and it doesn't seem to be a policy related to consistency so in the
36:03administrators Union they have a clause that says you will get either the same pay or The Next Step Above what you get so we recruit somebody from another District that makes sixty two thousand but they would go on the next step of whatever's above 62. we don't have that right now so it's kind of like hodgepodge it's willy-nilly oh it's like well I look at somebody's uh credentials
36:25they say well they they're worthy of 10 steps but is this would create a little bit more structure so that's what we were referring to and my recommendation is to throw it on the table with your best recommendation and go from there thank you very much to adjourn second roll call let's try again yes yes have a good night everyone thank you good night thank you