5.22.2025 Fall River School Committee - Policy Sub Committee

Okay, we all set.

I'd like to call this meeting policy subcommittee policy subcommittee meeting to order today uh Tuesday uh May 22nd. If you could stand and have a salute to the do roll call. Should I do the roll call? Okay. Mr. D. Mr. Corey, I'm here. Mr. Pereira here. Can we pledge allegiance?

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Okay. Any citizens input tonight?

Thank you, Miss Cabraw.

Okay. So now we move into item three which is our discussion. And uh for item three we got one going to have a discussion and vote to refer school committee organizational meeting policy BDA. Motion to refer second.

Uh discussion very quickly, Mr. Chair.

Um just um as I was the member who proposed this and um member who motioned to have this come here. So all that's happening is we're just realigning the policy to fit the city council when we're approving the election of the vice chair. It just takes the yeses and the nos out of it and you're just voting based off the person and the majority person who receives the majority is the

vice chair. All it is is taking the yes and the nos out of the situation and just going to a name only. I think it's um less um at least speaking that for myself I don't have no longer have to vote no on someone when I want to someone else. I think it's just a less convoluted process and like I just said it's the same process, same exact process city council has. So I think

it's um something that will be good for the full committee. I yield.

Mr. I have nothing. I agree. We'll move it to the committee.

Yeah. So, um I fall on the other side of that. Um it's a system that's not broke.

There's never been any controversy in our election procedure for vice chairperson. Uh at any time at during my tenure, school board or any time that I noticed previous to my tenure, I've not noticed any hiccups. So, um I vote no for that. protocol. All right. Well, I can I just because I might as well I want you to understand what I'm trying to understand. Yeah. Um so where I feel

Mr. Das is coming from is that it becomes weird when we nominate because then you have to vote no to get somebody not elected in order to nominate somebody else. Whereas he's trying to say we can weekend down the line I could say Tom Corey and he can go whatever Shelley Pereira whatever you know. Yeah.

So it's just names. Just so it's just names. So then we count if four people said Tom Cory then it's Tom Corey and nobody really had to vote no for it but then we could also like they do in the city council which I would love to see us do but I doubt it would happen that we could then vote again and make something unanimous. Um so just I think

when I looked at it that way it seemed more team effort and more or less and that was the only reason I think either way is fine.

So I'm curious. So if it went down the line and there were three different people, so nobody got and nobody got a majority. Does it start all over like in that moment? It goes back and someone says another name and then people and then it just keeps going until someone has it doesn't really keep going that long. You know what I'm saying? I mean, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Let's be quite honest.

The way this process works politically in Fall River, everybody usually knows who they're voting for before they get it. like we can pose it however we want for the cameras but let's be real. So I think what it does is it provides you don't have to say no you can sort of give support to somebody and then once they get their votes then you're you're welcome to do it again so it's

unanimous. So if everybody says you know if Mr. Das gets four votes whatever we can run again and then I can change my vote to Mr. die knowing and so it's like I mean I think either way the job gets done but according to the policy manual madam superintendent it says if no nominee receives a majority vote the election will be declared null and void and nominations will be reopened. Yeah

and that happens in the moment right okay all right that makes sense discussion we have a vote okay Mr. Guys, yes. Mr. Cory, no. Miss Pereira, yes.

All said, Deborah. Yes. Okay. Policy discussion 3.2 discussion and vote to refer creation of a policy in regards to reimbursement of travel requests and to implement a policy.

Anybody? Miss Pereira.

I I don't know the administration. I refer to the administration they have to um no I think my understanding coming out of the I don't think it was February meeting I can't remember when it was kind of referred to it was that um it was a vote to of whether or not we would be asked to create a policy I think that's the thing so um at that time for that

meeting we had um provided some backup so that people could take a look at what um what we had done to date um in terms of travel reimbursements and I think that was meant to potentially inform people as to whether or not a formal policy was necessary um or if it would be a matter of kind of m either maintaining current practice or some kind of direction in terms of you need

to change your practice or whatever it is. So I if it's the you know if it's the will of the committee that we develop a policy we we'll develop a policy. Correct. Is there a policy now?

So I'm taking it there's not so there's a policy but there it's very vague what I've read doesn't right it doesn't speaks um there are no specifics in terms of um you know a max reimbursement or specific guidelines and things like that. I mean I think it's it's it's helpful for you as well to have a policy so it's very clear what you're allowing and what you're not and it's

not well you allowed this one that and then you have to have an explanation for why. Um now I remember at the meeting we were talking about like reimbursements for foods and things like that. Is there now they're handing in receipts so is there any there is no cap currently correct? There is no cap. So I think personally developing a reasonable cap you know if you want to go and have a

really nice steak dinner somewhere you can but it we don't have to pay for all of it right we can give you $45 $50 actually probably 60 today maybe more.

But we'd have to look at what it costs cuz today it's not cheap to eat out even if they're eating at McDonald's, right?

So you still it still has to be a reasonable amount. I'm not suggesting you give them $25, but at least you're setting it. So there's sort of an expectation of look, try to try to work within this and provide those receipts.

I think it'd be beneficial for you and you to have a better idea even of what spending on travel. I I also think it's helpful sometimes um sometimes when we're in full committee and we we are approving travel expenses, some of them look like they're a little bit high, you know, and I know like I will look and say, "Well, what is a flight to Vegas?" Mhm. It's not cheap

right now, this time of year. What is a car rental in Vegas? It's very expensive. It's not a cheap thing.

You're not getting like a budget. So, but sometimes when we're just looking at this, whether it's maybe other colleagues or whoever may see it, sometimes when you see an expense, it might be nice just to say, "Hey, heads up. This is, you know, even if it's whatever in the past, because I think that raises some of the concern when in fact, no, it just costs a lot to travel sometimes and you're not you don't have

to be staying if you're staying at the win, you're going to be spending more than what that guy was spending. Let's put it that way." So, I understand that, but sometimes the public maybe doesn't, you know, but I mean, I I'm all for you developing a policy that you think makes sense, you know, that works within our budget because it is important that our our educators are getting out there and

and and taking part in these conferences. This isn't, you know, a party. I've been to work conferences.

It's much different than a work vac than a vacation because you're working.

You're not partying. You're going to bed early. You're waking up going to a conference. You're Yeah. Maybe you have a, you know, a nice dinner one night, but for the most part, it's a work experience and they're bringing that back to us. So, I think it's crucial. I don't wouldn't want to see it end or hamper it, but maybe, you know, setting up a policy so that it's easier for you and kind of

everybody involved makes sense. I think with that, thank you. And I pretty much agree with everything my colleague just said. I think it's important that we allow our educator, we allow our staff to attend conferences so they can retain in knowledge and um be better employees. Um get knowledge that's helpful to them. Um just want to share some of my feedback, some thoughts I would love to see in an updated policy.

Um, one is, and I'm basing this off of um, research and seeing what other either businesses or districts um, have done, maybe a maximum night u maximum per night reimbursement for hotels, vehicles, and like my colleague said, food just so we we for example again, we would have to look at the numbers, but for a hotel 130 a night, 150 a night, and that could even be based off of where the the

conference is and where they're going because the prices the prices are different depending where where you are.

Um and and I think just for having some fiscal controls um providing proof of attendance at these events just having that in the policy is important. Having deadlines to submit reimbursements as well um clear standards on what can and can't be reimbursed. Again, these are things that are already known, but just having it in policy, I think it's really beneficial. And um just just from what I see for travel

requests, I think it's important that the administration know who is attending, not saying the school committee, but at UD administration should know who is attending these events with them. If they're bringing family or whatnot, just for liability purposes, I think that's something we should speak with attorney on. And um lastly, and I noticed this recently, and I'm not sure if this is even an issue.

However, if you're going to a conference and that conference say conference is in one city and the you're staying at a hotel, the conference is in that hotel, I don't think you should, me personally, I don't think we should be reimbursing for a car for a vehicle at that point. I I mean, I don't really the need. Um, so those are just some of my thoughts and my feedback that should go into enhanced policy. I do

so I I think you need to control how much maybe a reasonable amount to spend on hotels. We cannot give an amount. 130 and 150 is way too low. Colin, I just booked a hotel room in November in Albany on a Wednesday and it cost me 160 and it's a cheap hotel. I'm going to go see Billy Strings. Check him out. Sick.

So that's in Albany. Nobody goes to Albany in November. So these conferences are in places where I mean one night at the win is probably 800 bucks where Vegas you're going to spend 250 300 to $400 a night at a hotel. However, if the conference is upstate New York, we don't have to give them 400 a night cuz they're going to find something for 250.

So it's not so much a dollar amount, but maybe something reasonable. You're not going to stay at the most expensive hotel in the perimeter, but you're going to stay at one that is safe and is clean and whatever. As far as a car goes, things like, "I'm sick now. I have to go to the emergency room because that happens." Um, or I need to go to CVS to pick up medication. There's reasons

people may need a car. Um, however, we could also say, well, if the conference is in the hotel, we're going to give you this much, you know, transportation. You can use a lift if you need to go out to get something to eat, for example, because food isn't always in the hotel.

We want people to be able to have breakfast and lunch and dinner and all that. So sometimes you do have to leave the hotel even if the conference, you know, may be there. But I mean, I think that's why you're going to work on the policy and make it something that makes sense and then bring it back to us and then we can look at it and, you know, yes, Madam Superintendent. So to

me, I'm walking the fine line between a set policy or are we trying to micromanage our employees? First of all, in in in in the world of education, conferencing is incredibly important uh for new growth, new trends, new ideas, new networking, so many benefits through conferencing. Um, I just need to know, uh, has there ever been, uh, over the past several years, has there ever been

any issues financially, uh, do all the travel requests go to your desk? So, I I'll explain the process. So, we have a travel request form and for every travel request, all the travel requests come through the assistant superintendent.

Yes. And he verifies to make sure that the trip itself is reasonable. In most cases, I would say 90% of the cases, most of the travel is funded through grants and that's where we we fund most of our travel. Um, but once the So that means nothing off of our bottom line, right? We do have some. That's why I'm not saying it's not it's nothing. No, no, but the 90% you referred to is is

from the correct. Correct. So, and then a lot of times when we apply for grants, the travel and those conferences, they're they're actually part of the grant. part of the application but you know there is a system of like in place that we have travel that there's three approvals so one is the supervisor second is the assistant superintendent he's the next person to to see the paperwork once he approves it comes down

to me to sign off and so I'm the final sign off and once that official sign off is done that's when the person is allowed to go on the conference until then they're not right so but we do have a system we've had a system in place for a while um Right. So, and the other thing is in most cases the overnights don't happen often. It really and if

it's if it is an overnight, it's for one night usually and that's literally it.

But so that's generally the rule of what happens and how we process the travel. I just have to say in my time on the board, I haven't heard of any cases of travel abuse or conference abuse in in any way from any any of the staff members within our school department. I have not heard of any cases that rise to the level of abuse. And I don't want this to be a policy to deter our staff,

you you or any of you, um, from traveling, you know, to like, you know, we're so limited now. You know, I'm going to vote. I'm I I just don't I think the policy in place right now has been thoroughly adequate. It's vetted by the superintendent. It's checked by our financial uh CEO. Uh, I I'm I'm happy with that.

What's your opinion? Do you think that a little bit tighter of a policy would be helpful in approving requests or you think it would hinder? I think that at the I I will say this at the very least whether there's a change in the policy or not, we'll develop a tighter protocol with some guidelines. But so it's a question of whether or not guidelines um remain as guidelines, right? like

that are aligned with the policy or if we need to put the numbers in the language. I think numbers are tricky.

I'm not I didn't suggest that. That wasn't one of my suggestions because it is tricky depending on what you're doing or where you're going. When I read the policy though, it seemed kind of vague to me. So, I thought there could be some tight I don't know to to me to make it a little easier to know what you're approving and what you're not. But maybe I'm wrong if it's not something that's

going to be helpful. I to be honest with you, I think I think it can be helpful to some extent. I just wouldn't want to put anything into a policy that would it would be difficult to say to max out on hotel. Yeah. Or to say if the you know if the hotel is at the conference you don't get a car. It might be cheaper to rent a car and stay at a cheaper hotel

and drive to the conference. It could be that it could be cheaper to get yourself, you know, use that car to get yourself to the hotel than it is to get a lift like at during rush hour at a state. So, I think some of that gets a little bit tricky. Um, I really do think the key is that people have the guidelines before they go and spend the money because where we don't

have any kind of language really built into a policy, someone goes, I'll be honest with you, like it's not a real issue because again, grant funding whatever it is. But it is there is a little sticker shock when someone goes to a conference and then we get a bill.

Four of our people have gone out and it's 125 bucks a whack for dinner because they, you know, they did go to a steak place and whatever and we're not paying for their alcohol and we're not doing but just they've gotten their steak and potatoes and asparagus on the side and all the things dessert and it cost $125 and we go, you know, it there's always going to be this thing like if you were home would

the four of you have gone out for that exact dinner or is it because you knew a grant was funny? So, um, so I just think that we need I'd like to give some guidelines around that. Sure. Um, so I I think that would be helpful. And if it's something that is ends up getting into a policy so that it's not a this superintendent has these guidelines and then someone else steps in with a

different guideline. I mean, that can be a slippery slope. So um I don't mind putting something into a policy um form.

I just I don't know how like actual like tight it could be because it has to be the kind of language that does last so that we're not revisiting the policy a year from now. I I want to make sure that is language that you know is is normal over time. I think we're thinking the same thing. And I think too even though we say we get you know a lot of

these are grants funded which is true.

Um, I think it really it's important that we're spending that grant money appropriately. So when they're looking at the receipts, the whoever's given us the grant, we're do we're using that money in a very respectful um, you know, way. And there is I mean I know that I've been so I've been to an overnight conference. I I went a couple years ago with people from the district. There was

a dinner like you know you in the conference all day. They serve you lunch while you're there and then at night there's a dinner. We went to the dinner.

There weren't like a ton of people there. So I was like, where is everybody? Not every went everybody went to the dinner. They went, you know, some schools they took their team out to dinner and those people were going to be billing their districts. But there was a free meal to be had and it wasn't horrible. What it was, you know, it was at, you know, Foxwoods and so was there

a cooler place to be? Sure. But the free meal was attached to the conference and that's where we went. Um so I you know we have talked about this idea of you know our needing to be um cognizant of when lunch and dinner are built in because the expectation would be like if we're paying for a conference you're going to participate in in those meals and we're not going to double pay for a

conference and then also pay for you to go to lunch or also pay to go for dinner. and then just some consideration in terms of reimbursement um for meals and things only when it's an overnight trip when you so I think that there are um your point of view is very common sense go and um it it speaks to why don't you devise something bring it back here we'll check it out whenever it is

that you devise something you know what I mean uh maybe maybe by the next beginning of the next school year you know because u that when it starts up all over again and then maybe we could revisit it here and uh keep it keep it I mean it's it's got to be moral, right?

It's got to be moral, but it also I don't want to micromanage our our our staff. I want them to go to conferences.

Um to your knowledge, has there been any cases that have risen to a level of abuse that you've seen? No. And I do think that where we've had conversations with people like uh you know next time can we people are very open to it. I think people nobody is really trying to like work the system repeatedly and um so yeah we'll we'll we just continue to have the conversations and no I haven't

seen any abuse over time. Okay. So as far as this this question is concerned, we could move it to the bigger we can move it to the full committee and and and give you the advisement to write up a policy and go from there. Mr. Dice, I I was just going to say um because maybe this doesn't even have to be a policy. It could be procedures written by the

superintendent. I I was going to make a motion to table this and um have the administration present um guidelines at um at a future um policy subcommittee before the end of the year. Do I make that in the form of a motion if someone want to second? And um on the motion I just had um two final questions because um my colleague brought up um a good point. Do we we do reimburse medical?

So, there is an emergency and I don't know if it's something that actually happens on conferences or not. However, if there is an emergency and someone needs to either take an ambulance or go to um a hospital for whatever reason, is that reimbured through our health insurance because they're unofficial business?

It would be through person's health insurance. They'd be responsible for paying payments, all of the as as it should.

Yeah.

Um and for travel requests, um because that come before the school committee for us to approve. Is it um it's just overnight conferences? What travel requests come before the school committee? It's all out of state.

Anything out of state?

Yeah. No, I appreciate it. I think it's important that um and I think we're all on the same page here. We just developed some clear guidelines to have fiscal controls and um I don't think that's micromanagement whatsoever. I have one more question before we uh take a mo vote. Um um Mr. Almeita um as far as the end of the year report is concerned. Has there ever been an issue as as far as

any travel monies overspent toward the end of the year report? You've always been able to make it, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So we're always we're meeting our guideline. we're meeting our deadlines that so it would be good to have a policy you know but that's okay we'll move it so want to take a vote on table this clear the motion um Colin you had it was to table but to develop procedures and bring it back to the policy yeah request the administration um develop the guidelines and present it at a future policy supplement

okay no timeline when to bring it back I'm not going to put that in a motion I I would just say um I I say before the beginning of the year, however, not really. Okay. Mr. Guys, yes, Mr. Cor.

Yep. Mr. Cor. Yes.

For um next item up for discussion, a review of how much the district spends. Excuse me. Uh I read the wrong thing. Um No, you're right.

No, you're right. district spends another district. It's like the same thing. There were two different motions at two different meetings, but we're probably trying to refer to the same thing. So, what do we do with this? It feels like it's the same. So, let let me let me let me spell out the motion. A review of how much the district spends on out of district conferences, travel reimbursements, and to create a policy

that will require out of district travel that surpasses one night to require school committee approval. Motion to grant leaf to withdraw. Second.

A motion. Okay. Yeah. Um I appreciate the um the review here and that was handed to us. I went through it just like right before the meeting. Um I don't think um I was the one who made this motion. I no longer believe um we need to create a separate policy because we're already working on guidelines already. So that's why I made the motion. We're going to leave to withdraw. Just um few questions on um

this sheet right here. So the operating totals. So I have um I believe two separate you bless you.

Okay. So So is this is separated between grant funding and operating budget?

Yes. Okay. And um the operating total.

So out of the operating budget, there was just um 1,800 on hotels, only 700 for vehicle rentals. Yes. And 400 for for flights at that time. Yes. Okay. And um for the grants, we have um 8,000 in total for hotels, 920 for flights and um grant travel. Is that mainly um that also include in district? Yes. Okay.

Yes, it does. Yeah. So, it's actually I think just looking at this um if I have any further question I'll make sure to submit them. But just looking at this it looks like um numbers aren't even that high anyway. It looks like we have a good um good hold on this. So, I do appreciate the information though.

I'm ready to go.

Mr. D. Yes. Mr. Cory. Y. Yes.

Next item on the agenda. Discussion 3.4, school committee policy for formal objection.

Miss Peru, there's absolutely no way in heck I would ever vote for this. Um, I'm sorry, but we're going to have one person no voting meeting. I've already spoke a million times on this and I'm kind of bored to talk about it again, but I I I have I really had a hard time because I agree some policy should be updated, but I have a hard time understanding why somebody would show up

to a meeting and not be prepared to vote. If something you happens at the meeting, I'm sure it's going to be more than one person that's shook by it and then we can always make a motion to table or do something like that. But to me, it's allowing, in my opinion, somebody to show up unprepared and say, "Oh, we're all going to wait. Put it on the next next meeting." Now, it makes

the next meeting longer. There's been very few times that I've received information at the last minute. Very few. Always get it a day or two ahead of time. We know this. We know a meeting's on Monday. I know that someday I'm going to have to do some school committee work. Whether I like it or not, I'm going to wake up early, do it, whatever.

I don't think there's any excuse that any of us can't be at a meeting prepared to ask questions if we still have them.

If we haven't done the research, if we've done research and we still have questions to be prepared to answer those questions and be prepared to take a vote. No way in any fashion do I think one person should be able to, you know, put something off till the next meeting. And then also like when we're talking about policy, words are very important. So when you use words like well not in an emergency situation

well an emergency to me may not be an emergency to Mr. Corey may not be an emergency to you and vice versa. So then that raises the question of well wait maybe it's an emergency now let's have a 20-minute conversation about whether it's an emergency. Let's get teachers up. Let's get superintendents. Let's get everybody's opinion to determine if it's now we just wasted 20 minutes determining if we should or should not

vote on something. I mean that just makes me want to bang my head against the wall. I'll be honest with you. So, I mean, I'm not voting for it to get out of here. I'm not voting for it if it gets out of here. That's all I have to say about that.

Guys, thank you. Um, but I policy I um I can I can understand I can understand your feedback and um I'm not going to belabor the point. I just want to go quickly on the record as to why I propose the policy and support it. Um, I believe it's important and the the background as to why this was proposed wasn't um necessarily for a member who's unprepared to automatically table. It's more if there's

um a question either on a motion or a proposal's legality and it's just more just more of just the ability for a member to push an item forward for that way. But I I think there's just a disagreement on that and I respect that and I'm not going to um um belabor the point just um I think it's important that we have policies that that that mirror everyone to the

same policy that the city council has. I believe it's very important that we be consistent between the two bodies.

However, again, I I respect the comments of my colleagues and I'm not going to um believe the point. So, I'll yield at there at that. Thank you. You added stuff to the agenda. I think my colleague to my left explained it eloquently and uh I'm also going to be voting no and I'll refer this to the larger body. Want to take a vote? Motion to grant leave to withdraw. Second.

So, what does that mean? We're taking We're going to take it off. Yeah.

Mr. D. No. Mr. Cory. Grantly to withdraw. Yes. Yes.

Merr.

Yes. That takes care of our agenda items for this policy subcommittee meeting. We move on now to new business. Uh, M cab, is there any new business that has been proposed? I have no business. Any new business, Mr. D?

I have no new business as well. Uh, that being said, I make a motion to adjourn our meeting. Second. Second. Okay. See you Tuesday. Mr. Das, yes. Mr. Cor. Yes.

Mr. Yes. Meeting adjourned. Thank you.