5.8.2023 Conservation Commission

uh welcome to forward Conservation Commission meeting being held at uh public hearing on Monday to May 8th 2023 at 5 35 PM in the first floor Atrium govern one government center Fall River uh tonight to discuss uh bylaws uh pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public media May transmit the meeting through any medium dancers are therefore advised that such

recordings are Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present or deemed acknowledged and permissible we'll start with roll call we'll start all year end Paul Emerald James Hornsby John Brandt Jim Cusick and we're missing a Louis Ferrer and uh Chris Boyle and we also have tonight from FRG TV Craig Salvador and we have Nina Pavo Clerk staff also we have no staff with us tonight yeah Nina

but I mean besides Nina nope no Dan's off today out today um okay uh basically the next meeting is to go over the uh State bylaws that we follow we're looking to implement uh let's see if we can secure a little more bylaws for our local area certain things that aren't covered in the state bylaws so we'll be going over that tonight um you know everyone has the uh the Mac non-zoning Wetlands protection bylaws um

I think it would be uh I don't know if we want to read what's in this or read it and then discuss what needs to be put in um I know when we started going over this we uh missing was it collectively the resource area values protected by the ordinance it was a missing statement on this um well actually it's in this one um does anybody have any input on the first

one uh the wetlands bylaws ordinance is the purpose purpose yeah one of the things that I read on here the second paragraph says this ordinance is intended to utilize the home rule Authority from municipality so as to protect the resource areas under the ACT uh to a greater degree to protect additional resources areas beyond the ACT recognized by the city I think on here it was a draft but we should

specify what the city is before we refer to it as a city so I think that's missing in this document so on here we need to specify that the city that we're talking about that we're going to refer to is Fall Rivers that's one one of the things that caught my eye on the first section on the purpose okay so we'll add the forever so we have to Define we basically have

to Define what the city is and then from there on we can refer to as the city all righty so we'll add one so in the Upland areas in the we'll add the city of Fall River you know that's the second line it says Town off and then yeah we'll just add the city of Fall River to that yeah there's also a few references to the town that needs to be on the Plato

sections I think at least one that says the town which again needs to be changed to the city once the city has been defined under the uh the first section of the purpose yep okay all right uh any other input on the purpose okay next is a jurisdiction um

okay go ahead I'm sorry

it highlights any questions there I think it's we have the 100 foot the 200 feet so we're on the second section on the jurisdiction now yeah say what is wrong so under jurisdiction for me what I found here was that uh one of the things that caught my eye is the what we have now the 25 feet um Riverfront area and um this goes back to last week when we had the meeting

um with the guys there from Brighton Avenue where they're putting all that material so close to the resource area and they really um they went within the 25 feet but to me that's one of those things that that 25 feet from um Riverfront area that's something that we should probably expand a little bit on maybe the you know 35 50 feet wherever it is but that you know that just reminds me how that 25 feet might

not be enough and that was a prime example that last week when we had that meeting where those guys are storing that material so close to the quickest end and so that that's what jumped out at me the 25 feet on this jurisdiction I agree but he was told to move it yeah well he was the thing is it shouldn't even be there to begin with well is it when it is right because he's

outside that 25 foot area so I mean well it depends on what it is you're putting there there was certain things that we can stop them from policing there I think is there a chance of being toxic I'd be demon it gets into the groundwater well I mean you're supposed to have depending what material he has there covered up and all these things that all these water conditions that we we put on there we

might put on there but it still doesn't take from the fact that it's 25 feet for the resource area in this case the the you know and even with covered material there's always a chance that the wind is going to take it and blow it into the rivers you know sediment all that stuff um I just think 25 feet I know this is that's been in place 25 feet on the

Riverside area for a long time but I just feel like it's probably not enough I don't know how the reference feels about this I know the the bylaws call is a 100 foot buffer zone Brooks Creek land adjoining these resource areas out to a distance of 100 feet known as the buffer zone to Rivers streams Brooks Creeks Atlanta joining these resource areas out to a distance of 200 feet known as the

riverfront land the subject of flooding so basically it's allowing us to go 200.

right I don't think we should vote 200 but I don't think the 25 feet what I'm saying is adequate enough as it stands I don't know if that's something that uh well that's something we follow we don't have to always follow the 25 foot buffer zone was more for like uh it's a no-built Wetlands uh that are in a development like down into South End that development back there that had uh

no I know what I'm saying right now is this is Riverfront this is not like uh a neighborhood right no no I know that but right now like taking that uh what happened on Brighton Avenue last week because they ran right next to the Pakistan River and where they want to store the materials so I know it's 25 feet from the riverfront area as far as Riverfront areas specifically so is that

something that we can expand on those 25 feet I know that the Reverend mentioned this before as well um you know if that's true I realize that there's 100 feet buffer zone but we're talking specifically about the 20 feet on the riverfront area here yeah we're talking about the no build Zone yes right the adult build zone is different from the buffer zone well I think we need I go well the state

has given us 100 to 200 feet so of what from the water's edge to for a no build no for a buffer now it's to protect the uh the resources so that was kind of a so the the buffer from what I understand is the 100 feet buffer right and then you have another uh uh buffer if you would want to call it which is a 25 feet from a river from the riverfront area so this

is two different things we're talking about here I'd specifically talk I'm not talking about the 100 foot buffer I'm talking about the 25 um foot River yeah and the river those are two different things yeah yeah so the 100 feet we have that that's fine I don't have a problem with that what I'm saying is when it's close to a resource area like a river that shrinks down to 25 feet and in the

city like four rivers when we had so I was wondering if that's something worth entertaining and bring it up and maybe expanding on that that's a good one thing no Watertown has a 50-foot no Builds on on the roof yes yeah and it has a 150 foot correct buffer zone and I think for me these are the two most important items like in the entire package well that and the fees we charge as well correct

um and I think we need an expand I think the no build Zone the the buffer zone simply says well we have we are able to tell the folks how to do what they want to do but we can't restrict any development um they are against Rivers ponds Brooks and I think I don't know what we can get away with politically well but I think I would really prefer a 50-foot no build Zone

there bylaw does include unless the redevelopments uh significantly improves the existing condition of the developed site so substantial promote the interest of the ordinance yeah so I mean there is a little variance in nurse too that's fine you know the other thing about the buffer zone you can control a lot of the damage like one tone has here no storage either above or underground shall be within a

hundred feet of any Wetland Source yeah so you can control you know any kind of materials they put there or anything that could be toxic how about a house yeah but houses are different this would a 50-foot no build Zone means no house that's where we put the 25 foot right and all I want to do is expand that whether we can get away with 50 feet or 35 feet I'm not sure but I think we

sure should try well we can put down 50 and then put it to a vote I mean we've got to get this through the city this is needs to be approved by the city council after the my understanding is by the way go to a committee in the of the city council and if it emerges from there it will go over the full Council be voted up or down yeah we'll have

citizen input on it first then City Council right but there are two steps in the city council that's what I'm saying it probably it could go to the ordinance committee or there was a different committee which is concerned with the environment and regulation that kind of stuff so in this one we want to add a 50-foot no build Zone yeah they already cut it down they can all right okay

what about the buffer zone well that comes later uh next uh on a bylaws is uh exception exemptions and expectations that would be uh right down there oh I got it I got it yeah go this is this is where I'd like this this is the kind of thing that I don't have the confidence to evaluate quite frankly I need a staff person to look at that well

you've got the emergency provision which we've used in our the only thing in the uh that one is we don't uh do we take every applicant in 21 days Nina do they get processed in 21 days no that's the only thing we don't um the state we don't quite reach the 21 Day mark we're supposed to hear when somebody files of paperwork we're supposed to hear them within 21 days so obviously we miss somebody comes in

the first week we miss them we haven't had any problems with it but I'll say challenged yeah State bylaws say we should hear them in 21 days if we did that we would add three extra meetings a year let's move it up we can't move it up state laws 21 days you sure that's a state law it's the uh it's the Wetland bylaws ordinance yeah but I think you can change your uh no

this is a sample technically hear them the table hear them yeah it's the 21 days they have to necessarily get the license or they just need to be earned louder let's see let's see what what they do well it says emergencies so we probably because technically they don't apply as an emergency all the time right and we have had emergencies come before us yeah we have so I think that's fine

it says a commission for a limited purpose necessary to Abate the emergencies and provide that within 21 days of commencement of the emergency project a permanent application shall be filed and heard that would be an emergency meeting special meeting or something okay here too so that's I don't see anything we have the determinants as to whether it's an emergency I don't think the the applicant is

well I guess when they're filing the application uh the conservation agent would know it's emergency or not so they would make the decision right we can also we should check to see if you can increase the days because you can make your bylaws more stringent than state law well I think the 21 days well yeah some a lot of some communities and had said they meet every two weeks the commission

so 21 days doesn't well let's say an emergency so I don't know what you could consider an emergency but uh well say the pier um the docs need to be replaced uh that would be an emergency well they tell you what the emergency is yeah it says right required for emergency projects necessary for protection of health and safety to the public so anything that's deemed health and safety is an emergency that's that's been

defined what it is yeah so I mean that's pretty much we covered it because yeah the one we have something we got to entertain if there's a real emergency anyways I don't think that's yeah the one that could have been an emergency was to repair to the compared to the dark to be right that could have been an emergency because that would have stopped them from doing business and so it's dangerous to the

public yeah so it was dangerous to the public and we could we needed to act on it right away all right so I think we're all covered there what do you think guys everything okay next is uh application fees uh not sure I know uh this we might want to say for the rest of the guys to come here I mean right now uh we don't want to be uh

greedy but uh we only collect the state filing fees what's the fees that we um for example for you know half the state with the state collects it's just shown on uh the application when they put on if you look under fees paid but now where we would lose out on is uh when somebody asks for an extension uh most communities charge 200 more to refile I don't know if we want to go that way

uh certificate of compliances a new house 350.

um an existing house 150. I mean these are things that we're missing but I think it might be good if we had everybody here to go over because it's you know with some serious this is going to be the serious bulk of uh the bylaws um because like filing commercial um

right now as it exists like a request for determination most communities are getting 250.

um like do uh Wayland delineation verification um most are getting uh 500 for a half acre to two acres so I mean I'm not sure if we want to be as high as this is numbers coming from New Bedford if you wanted to look it up um notice of intent 500 dollars uh like in a subdivision when they asked for a uh extension of order and conditions it's 400 bucks and we've been collecting nothing on

that right so I mean I don't know if we want to go jump that high off the bat but it is revenue loss to to us so uh what do you think we'll just we'll wait till the next meeting go over this so you guys can go on I mean I went under uh New Bedford Westport they all listeners and everything yeah so they're pretty high yeah I don't think we want to start

off you know but an extension order conditions I could see 100 bucks it's it's our time the city's time going back over a project if you don't have it right don't come before us you know I mean I have a question how many um you probably know the answer that's why I'm asking you more than I do but how many extensions uh have we been asked for throughout the course of the year

couple all right that'd be quite a few right you know it seems like it because it seems like well just look at the uh Highland Farms are those so you're saying if it's table that's an extension if they don't have everything they need for that meeting and we have to table it again they would have to pay the extension so instead of coming before us and keeping it on there they would call and not have

isn't that something we can do now we don't have the table we disable it by choice right yeah but we don't have a fee for it this is fee structure we just table it you know so I see so you're saying because we don't have a fee we just table it because right yeah we're just tabling it and continue where sometimes if you have a fee you're going to have people be a

little more on the ball so it'd be something that if we develop a fee instead of like you know continuing at the table like we do with the Highland Farms yeah we could say you know we could drop it off the agenda and then we'll have to some there we've had on the agenda for six months yeah no I but I think I I agree with you but I think we should

should be a process in place too to for us to figure out when we're going to drop something from the agenda you know what I mean is it is it if they missed something one time two times because I think if you don't have something like that it's going to be a discretion and people might think oh they're favoring this person over that person when do we get to say okay

um you know let's just drop it from the agenda do we give him a chance two chances before we do that so I think that's something that we need to talk about I get when you're going with the fee I agree with you but I think you have to have something in place where you know we figure out how many times it takes for that specific person not to have information

or how many times you know at what point do we stop tabling it I think that's as important this would be they would be falling from right now when they file an application they go to the State website right once we're done with this we would like it where they went to the city website and downloaded our forms and that's where they would be be automatically charged you know so well we can discuss that with the

next agent would be helpful on this too yes yeah we don't want to go crazy on on fees but we do want to I think now what's the other potential too of uh a fee based structure of commercial versus residential is that something other times are doing those cities yeah commercial is much higher I mean um like here they get for a certificate of compliance for uh industrial facility um is 1500 hours

that I think is is very high considering we've always done it for nothing but you can see the money that other communities are making I mean we want to be remain business friendly yeah I think we want to take into account when we start looking at Watertown and we start looking at the medium income versus Fall River and stuff like that that we have to proceed with caution we can't go and just or

because they're charging this much we should do the same thing I guess you have to go buy your environment and what people you know especially for the residents well you just check communities that are similar to ours Gateway communities right right but I heard Watertown I don't know if that's similar to us or not certainly not I wouldn't I assume like John is saying we should probably

proceed with the fees and Amanda that's not gonna shock people yeah well this is all new on the order conditions almost all new houses so I mean they're buying a five six hundred thousand dollar house 200 if they they miss you know or if they come in and say we got we're at 100 bucks it's you know half of what is around our area so we're not we're not looking to gouge we're just looking to

you know add Revenue when we need Revenue so like I said I think the refiling fee is definitely something that makes a lot of sense in the end it probably would get the applicant to move a little bit faster too you get what I'm saying yeah so like Jim was saying they're not going to be reappearing on the agenda like taking their time because they know they have what three years after five and

you know yeah in Hawaii whatever and they could just keep going around and putting themselves on the agenda from the month to month you think of how many show up every month the same ones month after month we go through everything I think that's definitely something that needs to be yeah uh next is uh notice of hearing uh this is one thing I guess we're kind of relaxed on because we take things up to

the last minute yeah which does not give conservation agent time to look over us to look over no um let's just say in here I know we had uh the past we had recommended uh five business days prior to the uh the meeting so do we want to add something like that to notice don't we have that yeah don't we have a time thing yeah but we have people send us uh updated stuff

this on the Friday before a meeting well that's okay if I think it should well our decision whether to accept it well see if you have it in the bylaws they're going to get it to us be four to five days yeah because remember we're accommodating them so they can sit back I mean we just want to make sure we go through the process and it gets more timely

to go over it and I think one of the most important things is that I notice is when Dan got something 24 hours prior to the meeting and he doesn't have enough time to go over it and then he's just sit in there and you kind of glimpsed at it and now it would take we're going to make a decision based on the fact that he quickly you know looked

at it without going into detail I think if we have something where you know like yesterday in five days before the meeting that's the deadline that's going to give us more time to quote for the stuff that he has and he's not going to be put on the spot 24 hours before the meeting to watch and look through it so I think that's an important thing actually uh we highlighted it but uh

it is in the uh state law that uh at least five business days prior to the hearing and newspaper act so that's five five yeah I notice we're here and then so that's in there so we don't have to worry about yeah but is it um that is in there but what happens most of the time too is they're missing some kind of document or whatever that's another that's what I was getting

at that's where the problem comes in it's not so much that they're not meeting the deadline it's that they you know they they file it and then there's something missing and they present it to the city or to to Dan 24 hours before the meeting what can we do about that well we can as a committee not take it because we haven't had a chance to review it is that something that would fall into

the it says five days so it's really written in there so the last five days for them to advertise advertise yeah that's not anything to do with us because we've never held anyone to five days correct the deadline is 12 days prior to the meeting could you go a little louder so if they were make say say they were making a change like when we get updates on Friday they don't advertise that no no no so

say they want to update something they we need to put in there where it has to be five days before the meeting business days for dank and review it so those are two different things there yeah that's that's what I'm getting that's not the fact that the advertisement is there because they have to do that or else they won't be heard it's the fact that there's something missing date can wait to the last minute

you know what I mean that's where the problem comes in I think Dan mentioned it several times where you know a day or even hours before the meeting somebody sends them something that's where you know somebody from the city the city has to look out for itself it's taxpayer money and I feel comfortable that that should be something that we look at because if he doesn't have enough time to look over

what's there we just approve it yeah you know that to me is a very important thing where the city should have enough time to look you know whatever it's a revised plans or whatever it is because that happens a lot lately okay so we want to put five business days

for all all new correspondents or Howard oh changes yeah that's what water sounds yeah five business days on all revised changes right okay that's a week yeah now the thing is it could be could be soon it could be a little more but Nate we do a revised agenda sometimes that's reasonable right that's typically just that's the Monday before the meeting what section is this on here notice in hearings

yeah so after the five five days prior to the meeting unless they have it in with this with the city it's We're Not Gonna right because then this will cut down on tabling matters because it didn't get in on time and we can't look at the project and well it's not even so much that it gets people I mean sometimes like I said if the city's agent doesn't have enough

time to go through it and he kind of thinks it's all right and he tells us you know I don't think it's a problem but it hasn't gotten through in detail I don't feel comfortable sometimes you know you know going through the motion of saying yeah let's because it could be anything written you know if it's a big document and he hasn't just glanced at it and not gone through with detail that

could leave okay you know the city in a bad position I guess alrighty so we'll move on to the next one which I don't think we need any changes coordinations within other boards um that's some I don't I've mentioned it several times at meetings to Dan I don't I I don't know if we there's something we can do when anyone's building a house that they have to get in touch with all the Departments involved

you know like this these things with the pools whereas people are building pools then they you know they put them in they come to us and we have to you know say you know you can't do that and it's too late they should have been told by yeah but Jim the thing is with that is just because it's a stop sign on the street doesn't mean everybody's going to stop at it they understand people try

I've taken I think a lot of people either don't know or they're taking the chance until they get caught then that's when it sucks well you get those people but the people who don't know I just think that if you're building a house or anything you're doing you should have to talk to every Department what's involved with that so you are building site plan review yeah so it goes through

engineering planning building department water and sewing and traffic so that does get looked at if it is what about an existing house that puts a pool in altering the footprint of the home in school to recycling on you if they're building a pool they do need to get a building permit and nine out of ten times the building inspectors do check with Dan just to make sure that it's not okay so we are covered on that

I wanted to make sure that if somebody goes to building and they want to put a shed in the backyard that okay so then we would be notified and they would okay so that I mean if it's something okay all right yeah I'm just thinking if it was maybe a hand up something that explains everything they can and cannot do in that way if they they get it in their hand they can't deny later that they

didn't know yeah I mean but what's your requested action whether you can if they have the material they could say they didn't the thing is like I said like uh I was saying there's a lot of people in this city even probably know this is what I do but that some people follow the rules and some people get caught and then that's when you know the city gets involved so yeah it's I mean I

I don't know to your point I don't know what you could do or what you can how you can make people change I mean you can give them the information which is on a website and everything else but I think a lot of these things like the food become an issue when they come to us after they've been well they have to go to a site plan building department so they get notified we get notified so

what makes it easier if they're notified ahead of time and they've got it in their hand we give them the paperwork and then they do it it's easier for us to say well now you've got to take the pool out because you were notified you were told and you you can't play don't because well I guess when they go to the building department they would send them over to

so I mean it's right in the same hallway so but I mean if you give it to them without them asking about pools you give them everything that they have to know well to put the pool in they got to get the application so building would tell them they're not going to put the pool in without getting yeah the license but they can say well I didn't know I had to get an application or you know

approval from buildings wow that would that's why I'm saying if you oh you said time before you know this is under the building department well that's uh they're opening a can of worms there so I'm just trying to find ways where they can't wiggle out of and play dumb and claim they didn't know yeah the other thing that is clear to me I was you know because we had the the

issue around cook Pond and I actually wandered around the shoreline and things like boat houses and and Shacks to to go over to the RV it looked like the purpose of the shack is perhaps the wrong word of but a place right on them when you build a little place right on the water and you enjoy it with screening and you look out oh that kind of thing that's what happens if people that this would

be in our no build Zone but it also they certainly didn't get a permit for this for some of these I don't know how long the a couple of them look reasonably new is you know not they were not 100 years old or 50 years old they were yeah 15 years old they were after the wetlands act that's what I'm yeah I'm saying some things I mean we I mean it can be in the

bylaws but uh we can't police everybody to be honest so What's your deal with I mean you know that's and okay it just all right yeah you agree and I don't know what to do either I'm just I mean I've raised it they go to Every department to get so they'd be sent to us so they should get a building permit and I suspect that they did not well anybody shouldn't do the right thing

doesn't mean they're going to do the right thing yeah okay all right so no changes on that uh Nexus permits and conditions

this is

this is an important section

the only thing that uh we wanted to add in the past was where it uh in reviewing the activities uh within the buffer zone we should put out a 100 foot bucket Zone expand that we didn't start of it but but I would like the buffers on a little bigger well you got to keep in mind some properties if you want 200 they wouldn't be able to build anything they can build on the buffer zone yeah

yeah but we we talked but the restrictions with what are that they have to follow guidelines that don't pollute I I think what the referencing is right now would be a hundred um for buffer zone anything on that buffer zone puts it within our control what he's saying is if you extend it to 150 it doesn't mean they can't build it means that now you have an additional 50 feet where we can control what goes

there that's what I think that's what you're saying that gives us more yeah um you know I was over I was looking through the fence at the King Philip oh yeah construction not not too long ago and there was stuff blowing I just wish we'd have more of control over that well if we were going to go 100 we might as well go to 200 like we did for the riverfront

I didn't know we went 200 for the rule of fun five right now the 20th oh we did uh the snow build and that's the buffer 50 foot no build zone so 50 foot you can't build anything right or how big do we want to control the buffer the buffer control Zone that's the the issue I don't think well it should be the same on everything if we go 150 it should be

listed everything is 150 1500. I think that's a buffer itself yeah the buffer yeah I think that's a reasonable figure I don't know if it's not green oh this is all the stuff we could talk about that scene has I mean once we have more members here we could yeah go back to that and figure out what people's inputs are about well this is the final this is yeah right

which is but I see exactly what the Reverend is saying about you know the buffer zone expanding that to an additional 50 feet where we have more more say over that uh buffer over that you know yeah so I I get where he's going right now okay so we want to say 150 Buffalo zones yes okay okay doesn't mean they can't do anything there that means that right yeah okay

okay that's in there so we don't have to worry about that um

you know the uh we just had no control the other area that bothered me and so bothers me is the Laurel Lake stuff and we just didn't have control over it at the time and weren't as where does it we were not as aggressive then as we are now I wish we had Batman's Edition there's a line here about loss of wildlife habitat which really happened along the parts of the brook that are above ground

they may be true for the one in the North End right I forget the name that's getting old let's go it's fine okay which was a 50 rather right 150 yeah 150 that's

all right

I don't see that in that we might oh there it is yep and well I don't know if that's in there so but that

I don't see anything else we need to add to that right now anybody else see anything on the back and there's a section called severability and it points out quite clearly this is a model of bylaw which is a page there's no number but it's two or three pages before the end too yeah I'm not clear what a Riverfront okay they suggest it may be reasonable to extend 200 foot Riverfront area

protection then do we have that in did we agree on that 200 foot for River it's already in there okay if we want to extend that to intermittent strings Brooks and creeks uh those would be at the 150.

those would be interested yeah maybe at the 150.

so I don't that's now is that a no build that's not a no build that's that's a buffer yeah that's a buffer that's what I'm trying to restraint

I found this section very helpful okay and understanding the uh all right so anything else in that section or oh the vertical pulls home we have a lot of them

so most of them are in the bio Reserve yep we have one that was in the fire reserve in his next to the new electrical uh plant the you know the the new electricity no power transmission area yeah and we say there's certainly uh it's closer than I suggest here yeah maybe we want to look at that I mean in this it does include any formal evaluation should be performed by an individual who at least

meets the qualifications of the wildlife habitat section of wetlands protection regulations so we do have someone looking at it if there's questions yeah that's what it's in there it's a lot to think about here but we can always come back to it so yep and the others all right next is uh regulations

foreign

yeah the only thing I see we're missing here is uh the term intermittent intermittent stream shall include streams that are observed not flungful four days or more days in a consecutive 12-month period where absent of the flow is not due to a period of extended drought withdrawals in pounds or other man-made flow reductions or diversions

did you get all that huh okay all right I can also give you a copy of this um any other things we want to add to that area regularly they have the rental pool thing there we also don't have the um

we don't have the term River or parental stream shall mean a natural flowing body of water that empties into any ocean lake or river and other uh which flows throughout a year that's not in there is that in here no this is on uh this is a copy that we went over two years ago when Caitlin young was here we picked out things that aren't in here so that's was one thing that we picked out

okay that should be included then another thing was uh the term stream shall mean a any body of running water which flows in the definite channel in the ground due to hydraulic uh quadrant a portion of the stream May flow through a code of cul-de-sac or beneath a bridge streams maybe Pernell C River or intermittent for uh streams yeah uh I think that covers that section any questions okay that's an addition yeah

it's on this one um next

next is uh enforcement

did we uh skip section 10 security uh oh we did sorry about that Nexus security I'll see one on my feet here

I don't see anything to add there you folks foreign

all right if nothing we'll move on to enforcement so um on this section here um on 11 section 11 enforcement says here this is a question I have I don't know um the Conservation Commission its agents officers and employees shall have authority to enter upon privately owned land for the purpose of Performing the annuities under this ordinance and then um on the draft here anyways it says

with appropriate identification question mark what what does that entitle because right now we have no identification so you do yeah it's a card it's a member of the Conservation Commission oh you're lucky do you have that you have the chair no I asked this I asked this uh that's what the city they don't give out uh City badges to boards because they say it would be too tough to control them

so how does this fit then this uh draft here this enforcement with this line here with appropriate identification and I just will my call no I don't I I I'll be honest with you I kind of like you know I do visit some sites not I don't go into let's just go like the Brayden app yeah I know like the it's kind of tough if you don't have can anybody be

like hey what are you doing here I mean you're just you don't have anything because somebody could say yeah you're not from the city how do you go against that argument if you don't have none of the show so well it's outdated but there it is that's an ID even if it's something like a lanyard you can just go around your neck and say right that's the mass Association well I

mean it helps it helps I mean I well what uh Jim just mentioned to I think something is better than nothing I mean I would feel very uncomfortable if I'm a private business owner and suddenly you walk in there and playing clothes and you're looking around what am I supposed to do I always ask permission when I go I always introduce myself yeah and most everybody is it would be easier if you had something

absolutely and then the reason I bring this up is if it's going to be on here if it's going to it says with appropriate identification that's something that we should either move if we're not gonna have it or figure out a better wording or a better way to phrases because yeah I mean the cities said that due to the high turnovers on boards they haven't done that well I know that well and I suggested I said

well I've been on the board since 2009 I don't think I'm going anywhere and I put that in last year and they said they were going to get me one but it's still but is that is that a thing Nina other like I don't know what part I would use or what other I mean we can ask again uh I just think if it's going to be written down in a

document like this that we need to you know dot the eyes across the team no it would be nice to have a city badge said you were a conservation agent you can't be put forward something you know with a wording the way it is if we're not following that that's what I'm saying yeah and it has an expiration date if it has an expiration date as this card does really helps with the control

because you know my card is no longer valid okay well I'll I'll ask Dan if there's something he can do to where they can issue a for the term limited to your term I mean you got two years terms so we'll just have them do with that I don't see why that'd be a problem but

no I I understand uh you know it does make it a little easier and makes you a little more comfortable going into a house you know something all right so anything to add enforcement besides that and then and then uh there's one paragraph here it says any person who violates provisions of this ordinance may be ordered to restore the property to its original condition and take other action de necessary to remedy

such violations or maybe find or both and then on here who monitors this is it the city so on an enforcement um that I have we have legal counsel would send that out so that would be monitored through legal department I think but we can we can ask on that one too the neighbor could complain or something like that but that's the that's that's that's that's absolutely the uh the issue that we talked about earlier

when I'm walking around scene well we can bring that up the next time who monitors the uh well I mean I think these things are very especially on this section section 11 on enforcement this is probably the core of the whole thing it's like really who's going to be looking at this who's going to be monitoring and then there's a section here for fines which seems a little harsh to me

there's another section here at the end here any person who violates any provisions of this ordinance or regulations permits or administrative orders issued there on the shall be punished by a fine of not more than 300 per offense each day or portion they're of they're in which a violation continues so to me that seems kind of harsh you know but it's on here at the draft so they

kick this idea around and then the other thing is if we're gonna have who know who's who's giving out the fine 300 per fence each day or portion thereof during which the violation continues so potentially it's staying here for every offense that you have at 300 plus every day that you don't mitigate the problem you know fix the issue it's an additional 300 well who monitors who goes there who gives out the fines this

section to me uh 11 on the enforcement seems like it needs a lot of work okay but it says not more than three hundred dollars no it says each day question there is right it is a fine okay let's just say let's pick the ones we go we put oh uh all these these ones that are being built on the uh built up north and the you know Fielding Street all these ones that we've been

running through um somebody decides that what they want to do they want to have the backyard they want to put the house in the backyard they don't tell anybody they intentionally build a house right next to the 25 feet this has not happened but I'm imagining stuff and I have heard of there had been disputes about this in different towns and cities on that they actually have to take the

house down well I don't think we have the I mean well we'll bring this up because uh first we don't who monitors it I I know enforcing it you take a police officer with you well I don't know if that's going to be because right now we don't give five I mean when was last time you gave somebody we don't that's that's something we do so we're going I thought we've done it once

and did we go through some kind of legal counsel or well it says before that it says super bullets and offices including any police officer or other officer having police power shall have the authority to assist their commission and enforcement so you could have the legal department we had we had the legal department send them the notice I don't know if we collected because after that

the thing is to to get to 300 start hitting you with 300 fines you really just got to kind of ignore the city and say I don't care what the Lord is or what the regulations are what you think yeah no I'm not doing it so at some point you've got to get their attention no no you gotta understand too when you start doing something like this and you go after them you start charging

clients and the person that whoever the monitor is because we don't know what that is now you can also be taken to the city could be liable for wrongdoing or being taken to court too so when you this is you're kind of opening yourself up too airplanes if they're intruded in the wetlands storing same rock and gravel yeah that would be fine you know because they're intruding putting stuff into the wetlands

they don't get it out a number of days then the fine would set in so who goes there and actually what we'd have a police officer and somebody from conservation so every time this potential issue we're gonna have to we would get a police escort to go there is that what you're saying yeah they yeah it might need one yeah when we have a seasoned assist order sometimes the police officer goes with

out with that right I've never been a while since we had a seasoned sister but they do go I I just I mean again you probably need Dan for this here just just kicking ideas around and stuff like that but I look at other things that this other ordinances that the city has you know that I've broken every day in plain sight and I don't see any offices going there yeah that's well

you know that's something we can't control we can put it in our bylaws and we can see who monitors it I mean tell me what I'm saying is whatever goes on here should have some teeth you know it should be you know what I mean we should be it should be well defined and should have because if we're gonna if we're gonna draft something up that's not gonna be you know well

what we can do is once we get this in there we can have it remained on our agenda and to make sure it's continuously looked at and taken care of great committee we'll put that on yep if we come across this hopefully we never come across it but if we do we'll just attach it to the agenda and make sure every meeting with that it's it's updated okay so anything else on enforcement

okay uh burden of proof is next

I don't see I don't know I have no confidence I think everything's in there this is something that would be looked at with Dan would be doing this right yeah but I think everything in here is what we were looking for it's probably okay because it's gone through domestic well this this is state so I mean you know it's yeah I don't see anything that we need to add to make it

we don't have to rewrite the whole thing next is Appeals yeah let's do it

all right

I think the pills are all set I mean that's yep okay next is relations to the Wetland protection act

I don't see anything we have to really include there either no but the point of this is that we are stricter than the well it's been the state legislation the wetlands protection act it's not that restricted it's that we have the ability under the uh home on under the yard right under the hole Yeah be more I mean if you want you can put uh city and state bylaws but it's I think it's pretty well serviceability

next people understand that that simply means that each section is independent so if one section gets thrown out the the rest of the bylaw is still stand and that's a common thing in bylaws yeah

okay we extended the riverfront area to intermittent streams books and creeks yeah the only thing we'd have to change in the back is uh the resource areas we put 150 instead of 100. yep

all right I don't see that's it on the bylaws I mean we're going to go over this again with the full board okay so uh can I have a motion uh no citizen input can I have a motion to adjourn motion to do second second okay phone call yes yes yes hi thank you Nina