7.22.2025 Historical Commission

Good evening everyone. Uh thank you for attending tonight's meeting of the Fall River Historical Commission. Um like it is 6 o'clock p.m. on July 22nd, 2025.

I'd like to call the meeting into order.

Um this meeting is on a hybrid platform both in person at Fall River Government Center and virtually via Zoom. Um, pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Um, and again, this meeting is being recorded uh through Fall River Government TV, which will be available on their YouTube page afterwards. Um, I got a roll call f I'm sorry, roll call, please. Jonathan Lima present.

Connie Soul present.

Jason Buchard Rocky present.

Rick Mancini present.

Joyce Rodri's present.

Um Ashley Duna is absent tonight and we have one uh one vacant seat. Um All right. So item number one on the agenda is to review the minutes from May 20th, 25 May 20th, 2025. They were tabled on June 17th. Um, I just realized that they were omitted from the packet.

So, I will we'll get that going for the next meeting.

Are you sure? Because you sent them to all of us.

No, that was the Oh, I'm sorry. Nope, that was the that was the June 17th minutes.

Oh, it was.

Yeah. Um, so that John had provided. So, the May 20th uh May the minutes for May 20th um were not included in the packet.

So, I will get that in the next meeting then. Um, we can table that.

All right. So, I'll make a motion that we table the May 20th minute minute meetings until the next meeting.

Okay.

Uh, may I get a second?

Second, John. Thank you. Okay. Motion by Rick, uh, seconded by John to table the minutes from May 20th. Um, roll call vote. John, yes.

Connie, yes.

Rick, yes.

Joyce, yes.

And Jason Bishardi, yes. All right.

Thank you. Um, item number two is to review and approve the minutes from June 17th, 2025. Uh, John had prepared those.

Um, and they were sent over to everyone.

Um, are there any questions on that?

I'll make a motion that they get approved. It was really well done.

I'll second that motion.

All right. Um, I have a motion by Rick, seconded by Connie to approve the minutes from June 17th. Uh, roll call.

John, yes.

Connie, yes.

Rick, yes. Joyce, yes.

And Jason Buchard, Iraqi, yes. Right.

Thank you. Um, there is any citizens inputs?

No. Um, I did not receive any notices of intent to demolish. Um, under correspondences, uh, item number three, um, I received a correspondence, uh, regarding the historical, uh, status of the property at 330 Prospect Street, which is the Quicin Fire Station number one, also known as, uh, Little Theater.

Um, so I provided the email that was sent. Um, this was from Patty uh, Aguar in the, um, engineering department. Um, she said, "The planning department received an email asking if anyone had information on the property history. Uh, I thought that you might be able to help with that. If you have any information, can you please send it to me? Thank you." Uh, this was received on Tuesday,

June 24th. Um, so I did send over um the file, the MACRIS form B or the form B that's on file with MACRIS uh the state database. Um, so they were happy with that. Um item number four, um a correspondence from um this is regarding 670 High Street. This is the John uh Guruard House uh request for information on filing instructions for an electric meter upgrade. Uh the property is located in the Highlands 40C local

historic district. Um I did receive the email on June 30th. Um it is from um Donald August. Um he writes, "Um, I'm I'm hoping to find out if 670 High Street is a historical property. The property needs a service upgrade and the electrical meters are currently in the basement. So if it is historical, can the meter socket be put on the outside of the house? Thank you."

Um, so I did respond um with the application for the filing procedures as well as the application itself or the certificate of of appropriateness. Um, but I have not received anything yet. Um so he was it seems like he was well aware of what the procedures should be.

So that's we'll be likely hearing from them soon.

Um item number five is a letter from Katherine um Pascal uh regarding a public tour initiative of Oakrove Cemetery and I have not replied uh with a with anything yet but um so this was received on July 9th. Um, so Katherine Pascal at 166 Cliff Avenue in Swansea. Um, dear city officials, my name is Katherine uh Katie Pascal and I'm writing to respectfully request permission to host professionally guided

walking tours at Oakrove Cemetery in Fall River. As a lifelong resident of the south coast area and someone with a deep appreciation for the city's rich history, I believe Oakrove Cemetery, the resting place of notable figures including Lizzie Bordon, Charlie Buffington, Cornelia Otis Skinner, Sarah M. uh Cornell, and many of the city's early leaders, offers a unique opportunity for community engagement,

education, and respectful storytelling with the public. The proposed tours would highlight the rich cultural, architectural, and historical significance of Oak Oak Grove to enhance the immersive experience. I would also like to incorporate optional Victorian era costumes worn by tour guides and on select evenings offer lantern lit tours to provide a compelling yet solemn uh atmosphere appropriate to the setting.

These additions would be designed to transport attendees back in time, deepening their understanding of Fall River's past in a respectful and tasteful manner. All tours would be conducted in small groups to maintain the tranquility of the grounds and they will take place only during approved hours. Care will be taken to ensure that the cemetery uh remains a place of dignity dignity and reverence at all

times. I am also fully prepared to comply with any requirements set forth by the city including permits, insurance and coordination with ci cemetery management. I would welcome the opportunity to meet with city representatives to further discuss this proposal, including scheduling safety protocols, community feedback, and potential economic and cultural benefits. My goal is to work handinand

with the city to ensure this initiative honors the legacy of those interred while enriching the public's understanding of Fall River's storied past. Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to the possibility of bringing this historical experience to life with your support.

Um, this is a wonderful letter. Um, and I don't I'm not sure if such a initiative was done in the past.

I know there's one with the Underground Railroad. Um, I would like to reply to her um and perhaps direct her in the right or point her in the right direction as to who she should be working with.

She should immediately Aren't these tours usually done by preservation society?

Well, I I've I've attended those tours and I thought they were originally the the kind of work that was done by the preservation society.

Yes. Gail Powers usually uh is the one who does the tours. Um and she does them for not just the preservation society, she does them for little theater as well.

Her I would believe I would suggest that her first point of contact be the Yep. Okay.

And then from there she can get authorization and then sprint out from there.

But who's in charge of the park department?

Uh Charles demain.

No, I I would just refer that.

That's what Rick is saying. Just refer to the parks department.

Uh yeah, I think the parks department. I think the parks department.

Yeah. But um who's in charge of the parks? It's Charles. Charles Demier.

Okay.

All right. I'll look up his last name for the spelling. Okay. Um, how do you spell his last name?

No, I will look it up. I will look it up.

E, I'm not sure, but I I could find it on the phone.

No, that's okay. That's okay. I can um I put a little question mark. Um, I'll give you his phone number and I can ask Carrie as well. So, um I uh I'll get the the contact and then um I'll reply to her uh regarding this um and what that means. I mean, it is uh other communities I know do it. Um like Salem, for example, they do uh tours of the cemetery. They um

I noticed she lives in Swansea, right?

So I I her the parks department is is definitely the first because um I know recently that Dale Powers did go before the parks department for permission to do something. Okay.

And um others have not done that.

Okay.

Um Okay.

That's their domain. Mhm.

And I'll check with um it just it brings up another topic too regarding um I thought the planning department was working on a master plan and the study of the park and I think that was along the lines of what they were thinking like down the line um of something to do. So I will I'll first reach out to the park department parks department first um and then kind of go from there.

But I'll check. But um yeah, I I think this is I mean she could also reach out to the preservation society too if she wanted to do something like that and maybe uh partner or something like that. Okay.

She sounds like she didn't know who to go to.

Yeah.

All right. I'll reply to her.

There was talk in the last few months of separating the cemetery Oh.

as a separate entity.

Well, I mean it depends on Yeah, cuz some of the cemeteries are not active anymore.

There's so many in the city.

Um, yeah, like uh uh North Burial Grounds not that's not even an active cemetery anymore. So, but it's just a matter of landscape maintenance, but yeah, it still has to be maintain.

Still has to be maintained.

That's just one of the many. You got the cemeteries on Rock Street throughout the cities. Oh, right.

And on the bio reserve, there's a number of cemeteries.

a lot more than people realize.

Okay. Um, anything else regarding item number five?

Okay. Um, item six, another email. This was received on um, okay, it says October 14th, 2024, but that is incorrect. Um, I received it just last uh, last week, but I will correct the date on that. Um, this is from Sandy Dennis. Um, she writes, "Uh, hi Jason. We are planning an event at DCR Heritage State Park in the spring. It will be on a Sunday morning around 11:00 a.m. Uh, do

not have an exact time. Can the historical commission come do a short presentation? Uh, we just want the public to know what the historical commission does and the structure of your organization, not unlike what you presented at our waterfront cultural district meeting." Uh, thanks Sandy. Um, so this was sent uh I received this from her last week, but she um or this is the original email, but she was um we've

been kind of going back and forth for a little while on this. Um she has an event coming up. It is actually on and I can get the correct date. Um it is on um uh Sandy um the date of the event is August 20th.

August 20th.

We wrote it here.

Oh, thank you. Oh, perfect. Thank you so much.

Um, August 20th.

Um, so I told her that we can certainly do something. Um, but um, if it's just a matter of um, putting together our like the design guidelines and some of the applicable forms and maybe have a print out of the um, register, significant structures, something of that nature. Um because I believe the waterfront waterfront cultural district um there's some um I know there there there's a possibility

of having some of the sites in that district which not it doesn't just go through the waterfront it also extends up Columbia Street um both sides uh right up to South Main Street. Um so there's some uh uh possibility of having um the whole area of the waterfront district surveyed. Um there's a number of historic resources there already on the National Register.

Some of the mills like the Anowan um uh there's a few buildings I believe on uh it goes all the way up to um what is the building? Commonwealth Landing. So it goes a pretty far distance up.

Um so there and uh you know there could be a possibility of a uh a proper form B field survey. I can give you an update as of this afternoon.

Uh, sure.

Okay. Yeah.

What what has transpired is that I contacted Elaine Styles at at Roger Williams and we had a tentative meeting on the on August the 4th or the 6th.

Uh, it has now been solidified for 11:00 on August the 4th.

Okay.

And we're going to attempt to meet either at the carriage house or at the U Marine Museum. and uh she and her upcoming class are going to start doing research on all the historic components.

Oh.

Regarding the cultural district.

Okay.

Um you want one more boy you one more piece. There are 351 cities and towns in this in Massachusetts.

There are only one only 31 cultural districts. uh Fall River is part of that 31 and we are the largest cultural district of the of all of them.

Okay.

So it's that's interesting.

That is interesting. Um, you know, I was mentioning um there's uh so there she was asking uh about um the historic resources that are already over in that area and there's only maybe three prop three or four properties on Columbia Street that have actually been surveyed. Um, so that right there, um, is in my professional opinion is an ideal candidate to have a proper field survey done, um, for maybe a like a

Columbia Street National Register District, something like that. Um, and then the waterfront district is a little different because some of the buildings are not old. There's a lot of open space. Um, so there's some there's some var or there's some options there. But um so that's what I have for that. But um I can put together something for the 20th if anyone would like to join in. Um and it'll be present or

I'll find out the exact time and um yeah, as long as we don't have a quorum.

So um you probably be dealing with if you at the DCR, it'll probably deal with Jim.

Okay.

Mhm. Okay.

Um so that is that on number six. Uh anything else for number for that item number six.

Um all right. So I do have uh for new business we have um Mascan Capital regarding Globe Mills 460 Globe Street.

Um they are requesting a continued letter of support for their historic tax credit application. Um good evening. How are you?

I'm pretty good. How are you?

Good. Thank you. um and u we've met before, but if you can state your name and um your relation to the um organization just for the record, please.

Absolutely. Uh good afternoon. Thanks for having me tonight. My name is Ed Hamandu. I'm the principal of Mascan Capital. We are advancing the historic conversion of the Globe Meal located at 460 Global Street to 89 residential rental apartments.

Okay, thank you. Um and thank you very much for sending over the the detailed plans. This is um I know I believe you had asked for that Rick the last meeting. Um but no this is it's it puts everything into perspective how the property will be laid out.

Yeah.

Um we are making the minimum minimum changes to the building. In fact uh even inside the building is just a empty vanilla shell. They're not really making any changes to the to the existing construction.

It's just all the infill of the obviously the interior walls and so forth yet.

Yeah.

Yep. Okay. Um any um and have there been any changes to the the scope? Um you said 89. Was it has it always been 89 or has it?

It's always been 89. uh there has not been any changes to the scope nor any work has been done. We are slightly ahead of our schedule and we are hoping to start the construction in the spring of uh 2026. So hopefully we will have units in place by the end of 2027. It's slightly earlier than our earlier schedule. Still work in progress, but it's always been 89. Maybe the potential

the number of units might go up is one.

Mhm.

But we'll see as we start design develop and then go to the first floor. As you know there are a lot of ledges.

Uh so until we get to the me engineering design side of that we are not sure about that but currently 89.

89. Okay. And is it all um if you if you don't mind me asking um is it all market rate or is there a mix between market rate or affordable or currently all market rate? We are exploring the option talking to the estate uh of allocating 20% of the units to with some rent restriction. We have not made any decisions on that yet.

Okay.

But it is open. It is not one way or the other yet. But we got a book for market trade. So it's easier to go and allocate units to affordable versus if you had to do that and go back to me the market.

Okay.

Any questions?

No.

Uh the applications I believe are uh the next filing period is August 30th I think. Correct.

Okay. August 30th.

Five. Um, any questions at all? No. Okay.

No. I just want to thank you very much for supplying the drawings. I know it was requested at the last meeting. Very thorough. Thank you so much. It gives us a lot of insight.

If you need any information anytime, send an email away.

Okay.

Um, and there are there are two buildings on the property. Correct.

On our property, only one.

Oh, just one. Oh, okay. Okay. And the lot lands must be separate then. Okay. I Yeah, that's proper.

It is. Okay. Um that was my next question regarding if the work was going to be done to the other uh part of the complex or not at a later time. But um no, I went through the the plans and I mean, you know, right down to doors matching what should be uh period to the the time.

No, this is good.

Um well, okay. Yeah, I'll I'll make a motion uh if there's no further comment that we supply a letter of appropriateness. Continue continued letter of support.

Support.

Mhm.

I'll second that motion.

Thank you. All right. Um I have a motion by Rick, seconded by Connie uh to provide a continued letter of support uh for the Globe Mills rehabilitation at 460 Globe Street. Roll call vote. John, yes.

Connie, yes.

Rick, yes.

Joyce, yes. and Jason Bushard and Iraqi. Yes.

Ed, thank you very much. I will get that letter out to you by the end of the week. So, you have that.

Thank you so much.

My pleasure.

You too. Thank you.

Um Okay. Um item number eight. Um, I had a request from um, Alex Silva with the Preservation Society of Fall River um, asking about including in the Highlands local historic district expansion project um, to consider sending out surveys, homeowner surveys to um, the properties at 721 and 745 Highland Avenue um, as part of the project. Uh we have we sent out a survey up to I forget the address. It is the

what we had approved back in I think October to uh when we had amended the target zone um was 70 I think it's 701 Highland which is on the northeast corner of President Highland Avenue. Um, but I believe there is interest in uh from the owners at 745 Highland Avenue, which is the um the temple um to be part of the local historic district. Um so if that if we were to send it to 745, we

would have to 7 uh send it out to 721, which is the house next door. Um so that way it's just one consistent line. Um, so, uh, I said I would bring this up at tonight's meeting so we can take a vote.

Um, so I can have Carrie send the surveys out. Um, I could send basically just take the packet that we had sent before and um, with a QR code um, and just in case the whole mailer as well.

So I don't see any harm into expanding and I'm assuming if they're asking they're interested. So yeah, and they um it is also still within the the National Register District um that the National Registered District goes up to the next block which is Stanley Street.

7:45 was a request.

Mhm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I'll I'll make a motion that we send that paperwork.

Great. Okay. Okay. So, I have a motion by Rick, seconded by John to send uh property owner surveys uh to 721 and 745 Highland Avenue as part of the expansion project. Uh roll call. John.

Yes.

Connie, is it okay to vote on that to me?

Oh, from the preservation society. You will need to Yep. No, you cannot take a vote on that.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

So, you will abstain?

I will abstain.

Okay.

All right. So, we have enough.

We do. Yes.

Yes. From Rick May and Joyce.

Yes.

Uh, and Jason Bushard and Iraqi. Yes.

All right. So, I have three yeses, one abstain.

Okay. I'm sorry. Four yeses, one abstain. Um, thank you. Um, did not think about about that until until it got to you. Um, all right. So, next uh item number nine.

Um a so this is rather interesting. So regarding uh was it last year we had reviewed the nomination for the night owl. Um this is uh for a certified local government eligibility opinion form. Um it's a request uh for the national register of historic places nomination for the night owl diner um 1680 Pleasant Street. Um so the night owl we have we have uh approved it. Bless you. uh for

the acceptance onto the register of significant structures and that's the city registry. Um the national register um is a different process. Anyone can make a nomination to a national register um uh a property onto the national register. Um because we are a certified local government though we have first say uh first review of any uh material for a national register any type of nomination before it goes on to the

state which that's one of the benefits of being a CLG. Um it allows us to insert um our opinion beforehand which might have more bearing especially because it's local. Um the state has a statewide non-ontiguous historic district that is for specifically diners. Um and so Almax on President A is on there and then in that same historic district across the state you have diners scattered across the

state that are historic and part of that quote unquote district. So the night owl is being nominated uh to go into that historic district. Um however um this came from uh Tony Dus the request um he had reached out to Ben Haley who's the national registered director for the Massachusetts Historical Commission. Um and Ben uh replied to him on June 30th uh to Mr. Das indicating that the MHC

cannot evaluate the diner until the Fall River Historical Commission completes a certified local government eligibility opinion form. A letter noting that it has been added to their list of significant structures is not the same thing. if they do not have the opinion form template, they can reach out to me.

Um, so that is what Ben has provided on this sheet right here. Um, it's pretty standard and self-explanatory. So, I can um I'll fill this out um if it's approved by us. Um, I will fill this out um using the statement of significance provided by Tony because I believe he did that with the the significant structure nomination. and then send this off to Ben. Um so they can re receive

that and then they can Mr. Das and the owner um of the night owl uh Mr.

Nostrala will be on their on their own process for that. So we will have fil fulfilled this this part of the project.

I could I can add some information to that.

Okay.

Uh the structure as it exists now is not what the drawings are showing. The drawings are showing a rather large expansion on the back of the building to house a handicapped bathroom. Are you familiar with that, John?

And that was the reason that the funding or some of the funding was disallowed by CP.

Oh, okay.

See, so the request is as per the original drawings. If it is, then it is not the same building. It is got a rather large expansion on the back side which is going to take away from the historic nature of the diner.

I think there's a way of doing it where it doesn't because the um ALMAX has a an addition to the backside um a rather large one. That's where the kitchen is.

Um so I think if they're adding on to it, if they're on the National Register, um if they get on to the National Register at least they they could technically put an addition onto the back. It doesn't prohibit, but I think they would have to do something where it's, you know, doesn't overwhelm the structure. It's smaller. Um I I don't know how they would do that, but um not knowing the lot lines and so forth, but

yeah, I don't I don't think it prohibits them from doing that.

Well, I think they were before us last year.

Yeah. And I think they spoke about adding some sort of refrigerated storage or something on the backside as well to alleviate problems with storage in the basement.

Right.

So it's it's a rather large addition.

Mhm.

So maybe go we probably should request a look at the drawings just so that we could get a better opinion when we develop this this letter. Well, it's this is just a template. So, it's being nominated as is. So, they they have to provide So, they're not providing um the owners. They just want the building on the National Register so they could at least get tax credits. So, they they

will they have to do their own form B, their own survey uh with photos, existing uh conditions photos, and that's what the state will look at to in their determination. If they go once it's nominated, then the property owner will go forward with historic tax credits. That's where it's going to get scrutinized by the state, not us, by the state, uh, first. Um, and if that addition is too large, they will

certainly they will very much let them know what needs to change on that. Um, so at least it wouldn't be coming from us. Um, but um, yeah. So they'll So they're looking for a letter of support with the building as it is as as it exists. Yes.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, yeah. Okay.

Okay.

It's just a template form. Yeah. There's I don't think there's any letter at all.

It's just a template form.

All right. As long as we're just saying that it qualifies, correct? Yep.

As it exists.

As Yeah, that's all we're doing. It's it right. It's that it qualifies as it exist.

There will be I may have a question on what the criteria number is because there's um a list of Yeah, here it is.

Um, so where it says criteria A, B, C, and D, um, that is, and I don't have it in front of me, um, but I will use my professional opinion on that. Um, and then before I obviously mail it out, I will send it out so everyone can at least just take a look if there's any errors or things need to be changed. But we might want to I don't know. It's just

a suggestion. You might want to in this in this statement just put down as shown or as existing.

Oh yeah.

So we lock it in, right? It it'll be I mean any nomination to the National Register is always as is um uh in their current condition because they have to provide um updated photos of whatever the building looks like. I I and it almost impossible for them to send in renderings of what they're going to do as part of their nomination.

That's not that's that's a different level.

Yeah. Um so like uh uh for example Wyoming Mill um we've reviewed that one on Chase Street for the apartment for those apartments. We'll likely see them next month. But so that property was not listed on the National Register um back in 7879 because of uh an owner um uh didn't want the prop the owner at the time didn't want the property on the list so it was omitted. Um but the

current owner wants the property on the register so they can get tax credits. Um so it went through the whole process before we were a CLG. It went through the whole process with the state on the national register. They look at it as is. They weren't looking at the the plans. I think 400 apartments. They were not looking at those. Just the current scope of the property with historic research and um yeah, and now the

property is on the national register.

Um Yeah. So that's what this is. It's just existing conditions and so they can move forward.

Yep.

Yeah.

Good. Okay. And and as you stated, that little note in there will just solidify that it's as is.

Yes. Mhm. Okay. Um so make it a motion to fill out this form and provide it to the state, please.

I'll make a motion to fill out the form and uh send it forward to the state.

Okay. I'll second that motion.

All right. Thank you. I have a motion by Connie, seconded by Rick, uh to provide the eligibility u form, the CLG opinion form to the state for the night owl diner. Um roll call. John, yes.

Connie, yes.

Rick, yes.

Joyce, yes.

And Jason Buchard and Rocky, yes. Right.

Thank you. Um I do not have anything under register of significant structures. Um old business item number 10 regarding 550 to 570 Rock Street. an update on opinion sought from the law department regarding the changes to the historic district boundary. I have not received word back from the legal department yet. I did email them a little late um after the meeting after our last meeting but um they've still

had some time to reply. I haven't received any response. Um I do know that the did pass the variance or the zoning board I believe for 12 units I think 12 between the two properties.

Okay. Um but once I hear back um from the leg uh law department um then I will invite the property owner.

Um but the um the state still um still regards the I guess parcel three on the subdivision um which is the lawn that's still technically part in the part of the 40C.

nothing the boundary lines on the state level they have not been changed um and that's what would kickstart the once the once the state gets a notification they'll want to see if anything was done to um contact the neighbors the abuters everyone in the 40C they um so that's that whole process um so that's that um item 11 steep bio reserve still on schedule for completion and presentation uh sometime in September

mber.

Okay.

Completion September. Thank you. Um All right. Um item 12, Highlands Local Historic District expansion update. Um I believe the Preservation Society did mail out letters um indicating that the field survey work was beginning. Um Alex did provide this map. Um, Alex Silva uh from the Preservation Society provided this map uh showing um the properties that we have received um surveys back.

Um so and it does show where the existing 40C is um unfortunately it does not show the boundary lines of the National Register District but that's okay. Um, so regarding this, um, and I do know I did receive a phone call from a homeowner on Winter Street and she had misplaced her survey, so I mailed another one out to her. Um, so, uh, we should, I believe it's a four 411, um, Winter Street. Um,

so, regarding this, um, it does help visually to see where everything is going or at least where the responses have been coming in from.

Um, uh, I believe there might be some activity at 72 Belmont. Um, the property is currently for sale. Um, but I believe there's an interested party that might be in support of the 40C. Um, cuz they already own property in the 40C. Um, and there's one addition to the no list and that is 456 Rock Street. So, just beneath uh just south of 492 Rock Street um and the other properties around it. So,

like um it's mislabeled, but um on the corner of Rock and Maple is the historic uh historical society. Um they are se uh CPC U recipient. Um and then um 417 Walnut Street is the school department admin building. they are a recipient of a CPC grant. Um so those properties um could certainly fit in if nec if we decide to change the the boundary or at least the target area. Um I do know that

um in speaking with the um consultants from PAL uh public archaeological laboratory um they we they are budgeted for 50 surveys. Um so if there is a possibility of identifying a more solid district uh boundary for them smaller than what we had uh surveyed um that we feel is uh that can move on to the next phase of the project. Um that would be helpful for them. Um

and I only say that just because I do um we surveyed down, if you're looking at the map, we surveyed all the way down to um uh let's see on Rock Street, the southernmost property 375 we had surveyed 388. We surveyed um over onto High Street um 385 High Street, which is the Temple Bethel, they were surveyed.

We didn't receive anything back. And all the properties on um in that block of Walnut Street and then Winter Street North up to Highland Avenue, they were all surveyed. We haven't received anything back. Um the one that I I believe we should be getting back is 411 um soon. Um and but that's right on the corridor of Highland Avenue. So, I do think that we could probably, in my opinion, I think

we can probably safely omit the properties on walnut and winter from a proper field survey.

Um, just because like I as I said, we're only budgeted for the 50 or the preservation society's budgeted for the 50. Um, I don't know what everyone's opinions are on that.

Well, you hope for the best, but I think a pragmatic approach is appropriate, right?

Where where you have the support is where you should put the resources because that's Mhm.

Um so for for instance um looking on the north end um Highland Avenue uh from President South. Uh for sure we can probably keep those listed. So on the western side of Highland 674 um cuz that does form a corner with the park. Um but that the park is a physical boundary line. So 647 going down. So 647 654 or I'm sorry 674 654 632 600 um down 572. So if we do that line all

the way down um we did survey properties on Lincoln.

We only received four back on Lincoln the but um yes yeah the the uh it's it's difficult like yeah I tend to like to keep the existing scope in place okay myself this is my opinion Mhm.

Uh the the funding for form B's done on performed on those areas would be would be beneficial.

Mhm.

Uh and the the money's allocated to PAL that's not it's not a lot of money to get the value that we're going to get out of these in this whole area. So, uh, the probably preservation could go back to CPC funding is coming due in September.

Okay.

There's, you know, add funding. Yeah.

And make a request. It's it's small money for the historic nature of what we're trying to achieve here. So, uh, we could make a request to the preservation that they go back to CPC for funding for the for additional funding so that we can maintain our this this area that we have because it is all part of the historic lower highlands and there's some beautiful structures in all of this. So,

just getting just getting form B's on on some of these homes in itself is going to be right. But that so we need the formbb's done to move on to like the public meeting part and um and the the formbbe will take some time on uh from PAL but then um uh once we have an uh an I uh more honed in district I guess um then that's what will go towards the final study final

study report that will get um brought up to city council. Obviously, we have to have neighborhood uh the neighborhood buyin.

Um but it's interesting. We don't need 100% buyin from the property owners per the state. Um but there are sorry I was just going to say I believe that if you get 60% of the city council that votes in favor that it's it would be put into correct 40C district.

Right. and then the ordinance and um I mean there are some larger properties that I'm not surprised we didn't receive anything back from. So for instance 410 Highland 423 Highland that's the Catholic dascese um the uh it's listed on the map as the Christian school but um it's a now a office building um just north of that on Lincoln in the Highland. Um we didn't receive anything back from them. Um, so I do think

we PAL needs to know where to start and um, so before they start doing their field surveys, they need to they would like a a proper list of where should they be starting because they're, like I said, they're only budgeted for 50. Um, so if they can do the first 50 and then we can kind of move along with that afterwards. Um, you could leave the scope as it is. you

you could pick out 50 properties in a section and have that done and then we could go to okay CPA and see if we can get additional funding to just continue I mean that could be done and I think the state will be opening up planning grants soonish so and that's a usually 50% match okay so we can double up um this the city or this uh preservation society can double

up um because they can get if they apply for state grants, they can match it with CPC.

Okay. And there's also matching grants with the CLG, is there not?

Yeah, that's still the study grants. Uh they allocate certain percentage to CLGs. Um Okay. Um so I is there an area where we think they should start just so we can get them working?

No, I I would uh I pretty much uh let's just get, you know, get get u the preservation society and yourself uh and and again I I don't mind. I'd like to join and stay with this uh and maybe just have a brief meeting and just develop quickly 50 units.

Okay.

Within the the current Okay, so we surveyedundred 70 plus properties. It was 140. It was 149, but when we added then we added 17 and then we're adding two more. Um, so I mean, yeah, that's okay. Um, okay. Um, I will just tell them they can start with Why don't they just start with all the blues?

I was going to say the same.

Yeah, I mean they can. They can. I mean, the blues take up the majority of the 50, right? But the the thing is what I'm what I'm what I'm saying is though the um if there are some blues that will from what I understand of how this works, there are some blues that will likely not get put into the final boundary line. Um and because of where we have the nose, like we have some large nose.

We can't carve around the nose, right? We have to we have to have good reason why we can't have them in though.

We we probably won't have anything north of Maple Street because of the reds.

Yeah, I'm afraid that I don't know if like there's a but still I think there's a good amount of blues in a corridor even with what I think we mentioned which would be maybe Lincoln Avenue down to Underwood Street carved out, right? But I I think the majority of the blues still lie in what would be a reasonable target area and it seems like a wise place to start.

Mhm.

There's a lot of I mean they don't need to be together to do the form B's.

No, they don't need to be together to do the form B's, but um I mean if there were properties that were surveyed and they don't end up in I'm just seeing making sure that the preservation society um gets their the money's worth.

Yeah, you don't want to waste the funds for sure. You don't want to survey something that ends up I think they were awarded 69 something 67,000 for 50 properties. Um and but that's that also includes them pro um pals doing the final report. Um they will be present when we have the neighborhood meetings. Um and so it looks like from Lincoln Avenue north to French Street and from June Street west

uh to Highland Avenue, Underwood Street, you have a pretty good concentration of blue and there's way more than 50 properties there. So that may be a good Okay. So north from so north from the existing 40C from French thinking like this. Yeah. Exactly like this.

Okay. In this block. Okay. So and it abuts the existing.

Okay. So let me just this makes sense.

Let me just all because I had to um because I know we didn't go too far up.

All right. So, I'm just going to sketch this out.

Also, when when people if if the form B's could be shared with some of the homeowners, that might flip, right? Exactly.

Um there's one on uh where was it? Um they wanted more info. Um not info. Yeah. Yeah. There's the two that want more info. Um and what that means. And so, Lincoln Avenue.

All right. I think if we because I know also too, we can probably just do the existing. Hold on. Let me just I'm going to just draw this out and then um tell me if I'm wrong in this um just so I can provide it to um I see he's going across the street here.

No, I mean this makes sense too. It's just if it's 50, this is Yeah. Um I mean I I would happily include this triangle. Let's do I'm just going to do this just because I'm going a little out. Um I just want to get out towards Highland just because that's the physical boundary line.

Um so Highland is the boundary line. Um not Yeah, Highland A. Um Charlton Hospital is the boundary line. Um and that's the easy one to do. So I think if we start with something like this, um hold on cuz they don't want it. Um and we could at least get would this be something? So kind of going in this I know this is okay. So because we have the concentration here but then we also have

key properties here along Highland to get to the boundary of Charleton and I think if that's a good number I think a good set to work with that's fine too.

That's fine too to start with that. I'm able to spot it like boom, let's get it done.

And then um because it's the properties on Highland Avenue, if worst comes to worse, we can probably do the form bees ourselves. Uh or maybe I can ask the preservation society. I believe they did volunteer work in the past. Those properties are heavily documented uh on Highland Avenue. So that's um high.

Oh, you did? Oh, yeah. Um we did the we did it ourselves. was the 40 for the 40C.

Okay.

But um other ones we actually Okay.

hired someone.

What's what's interesting here is that the non this whole area which is quite large. You've probably got 200 properties in there at least. And out of that you have seven that are not interested. You've got over 30 that are interested. and the others there's no response. So when we have the I'm going to call for a lack of better term when we have the town hall meetings on these projects and we start getting

more publication and and info out there we're going to start to peak an interest.

Yeah.

All right. And what's encouraging here is that there are only seven properties in this whole area out of 200 that say we're not responses positive.

Right. Right.

Oh yeah. the the responses have been very positive um for those that have responded. Yeah.

But then we got so many that have not responded one way or the other and honestly that haven't Well, people that haven't responded, those that don't want to be in will respond.

Correct.

Right.

Exactly.

Yes.

So those that have not, it's because they Okay. Yeah. You know. Okay. But sometimes when you get information about your home, there's a sense of pride and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, I didn't know about that."

And so it it changes.

Yes.

How you think of it. So that's why I don't see it like as a waste and that's that's why I'd like to keep these boundaries in existence.

And you seem to think that monies would be available because it is small amount of money.

So I think we should just forge forward.

Okay. Well, I don't think it's about changing the boundaries per se. It's about allocating the first 50 the money.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Locations, right?

Yeah. Nobody's suggesting restricting the target area. I think we we're talking about where we put the 50 properties.

I had mentioned that earlier with the possibility of like in the area I was just spinning off with Jason. Jason was going to reduce the scope a bit, but I'd like to see it maintained.

Uh Let's see where we can go with that.

Yeah, exactly.

Sure.

Yeah. Um because I do I do see, you know, we have there's a lot of large properties that we did not receive responses from, but again, for good reason. We have the Catholic Dascese to the north. We have a uh um uh the board house in the corner of Highland. It's an office building. We have the historical society. There's two properties there. We didn't receive anything back from them. The school

department. Um so that makes sense. Um, Little Theater we didn't receive anything from. Um, but I believe there are CPC recipients, too. So, they already have feed restrictions.

Great.

Um, okay.

Well, I just had a question. Yes, Mr.

Chairman.

Could that revised sketch be put into the minutes, please?

Can that be uh scanned into the minutes?

Yeah. Yeah, I can do that.

Yeah. I mean, I have to scan everything into the minutes anyways, but I will um I The boundaries haven't The boundaries haven't changed. We're just trying to figure out where the the consultants the the consultants that's still very interested on how you managed to get that in there. Get all that in there.

Well, this is just we just we were talking about how the consultants have to start doing the field surveys and the pro the district the target area is so large they don't know where to start. So they're waiting for us to with the responses that we've had to direct them as to where what properties what what streets and houses that they need.

So what do you do with um these people that are very disappointed that they're not going to be included?

Well, no. So that's they will likely they will likely be surveyed as well.

We're just trying to do the if we've uh we the society the preservation society has only budgeted currently for 50 properties to be surveyed. Um while they're doing the 50 surveys, um the state uh pres uh his sorry the state um historical commission and the city will be coming out with the next funding cycles for preservation study grants and then CPA uh community preservation act grants. So while these 50 are being

done, we um the preservation society since they already have this project underway, they can easily request um or make the grant application for more more funds for this current project. Um so they're doing the they're doing the form B component right now.

Um that's the biggest part of this project is the form B. Um and the certified local government that we're a part of at this point uh matches some of these funds. So we're not going for a a larger we can get a much smaller amount of money and get that matching fund. So this is this is it's a good thing.

Right. And I mean it's pretty as as John and Connie have said there's a a good concentration of we just figured where it was concentrated the blue where it's concentrated we should just start there for now but we're not omitting anything yet.

No.

Yeah.

We're just trying to have a pinpoint of where to for the surveys. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just for the surveys. The surveys take the longest part. Um there's a lot of research that goes into them as uh the preservation society. I'm sure in the past they had uh hired those um the people to do how like what 50 or so 47 properties but there's there's a lot of research involved in doing the for the form BS.

No doubt about it.

Right. So um yeah. Okay. Um, I will provide the list of addresses to Alex um and um Laura and Liz over at PAL and so they can start.

Okay. Um so that so now at least they have and I don't think we need to take a vote on this is just providing them the addresses that we've already surveyed um so they can start doing the field sur the proper field survey.

Okay. Um All right. Anything else? I know that part was um All right. So is there anything else that um Nope. We have nothing else. Um, so we are scheduled next to meet on two three um, Tuesday, August 19th. Um, and I do know I already have um, uh, participants lined up for that because we have all the um, historic tax credit um, letters to continued letters to um, review and approve. So, we'll have a

busy August meeting. Um, so on that note, um, may I get a motion to adjourn the meeting at 657?

I'll make a motion that we adjourn the meeting.

Rick, second, John. Thank you. All right. Motion by Rick, seconded by John. Roll call vote.

John, yes.

Connie, yes.

Rick, yes.

Joyce, yes.

And Jason Bashard and Rocky, yes. All right. Thank you very much.