8.15.2023 Historical Commission

uh good evening everyone and thank you for joining us for uh the um August 15th 2023 hearing of the Fall River historical commission um it is 6 p.m uh the meeting is being recorded will be posted on Fall River government TV as well as their YouTube page pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium

attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible make it a world called please Joyce roderick's present Man City president Elizabeth deblock present Connie Seoul present I'm Jason Bouchard and Iraqi present we do have two open seats on the historical commission I did send out a request

to city council one of the seats will be filled by city council recommendation the other one by the mayor through his recommendation for the city ordinance um he did send over a candidate um however that has not yet been brought up city council yeah that's uh not on tonight's agenda I did ask the reason for that but I have not heard back from the mayor's office yet um so we're still thinking two seats or

down two seats um let's see um the first item on the agenda we have the minutes from July 18th um due to a technical issue those were not sent around so we will approve those at the next meeting um table okay I'll make a motion that we take over minutes of the last set of minutes into the next meeting I'll second that motion all right I have a motion by Rick and a

second by Connie the table the minute from July 18th um all in favor all right um do we have any citizen input on any of the items on the agenda yes to the table before the main introducing yourselves your name and address Colin dies 560 Race Street compared a few remarks some good afternoon members of the historical commission I first want to start by uh sending my appreciation both the chair

and the vice chair for their mistypal comments that the planning board meeting of course as private citizens but um I do believe it was um it was very insightful and I do appreciate the um lesson I believe I received myself and uh planning board received in um historical commission historical districts um I'm here today and I'm actually just gonna go off Off Script here um I'm here today

to honor a good gentleman that I've come to learn in our community Gene Baptiste LePage wasn't born here but lived much of his life here served to served his country honorably during a major time in our world's history during World War One um sacrificed himself on the battlefield and unfortunately as we all know his overpassed his dedication was um taken down and there's no um concrete plan to um

to suffice that so I was very happy to see um even though Third Street isn't going to be most likely isn't going to be a good option for that location it was very good to see the historical commission's commitment to that matter and putting it on the agenda today um I did send in an email um early this morning with some recommendations I am really looking forward for the board because I really

would like to support historical commission I believe this is in your purview to make a recommendation either if it's the six I have here or a recommendation of any of the members to go forward before the planning board because I believe we need a plan I we we heard the last planning board meeting you know I heard great talk I didn't see any concrete plan when we have someone who served this country is memorial was

knocked down I want to see something set in the stone I don't want to see his um memory be forgotten so I believe it's important that we keep at this we get something set in stone um I have um six proposals myself that I looked over um and if possible I'd like them to at least be added into the record if I could hand it to you after um I'm just gonna go through them all

individually and again some of these that may have a historical impact some of them I just thought would for the scenery wise and the location and of course you got it taken to um and I understand that's this is the job for the planning board but it is on the agenda today and I would love um I believe we need workouts as a team because I definitely don't want to um

step on the toes of um your board either and recommend something that would um her historical district or rollback progress that's been made first we have on South Main Street by city hall right outside here I mean not not and I have coffee so I will definitely um send them to you right after the speech um we have South Main Street right by City Hall between North Main Street and the lights I

believe that's Borden Street yeah I believe it is Borden Street um we have the flags it's an overpass over the highway something we should consider another place um stink streets where Mr LePage was um born and raised not born I apologize he was raised on Jake Street spent most of his life before going into the battle again um it was this is actually something that was um proposed to me by

members in the community who couldn't be here today it's actually something I didn't consider myself um we have James Street where he was born another one that was uh proposed to me in the community we have an overpass I don't believe it has been names excuse me could you just turn that spot around the last one I had get a look at that whereabouts on Jack Street you want to

name the street is that what would your proposal be for this one I would I proposed um Jake Street the entire Street to change the name of jenk Street I would I I don't know the historical this is um this is for clarification that's all so yeah yeah no foreign to

um detail but I mean you do have Jing Street um I don't know that I know it's the um playing boys purview to do this the research and um that's why we have six proposals here we can believe um if some are catch GI of the board and I love um an endorsement of maybe even multiple I was talking to my um my colleague here Mr gadro I mean you can always just and he

was going to speak out okay okay we can definitely I'd love to see the board endorse more than one proposal definitely and I I have copies as well from if I may just present them sure if we do I do have you on the agenda um as item 11 and I'm sorry item 10. if you um the whole list then if that's if that works for you I think that would be

more appropriate okay great but if I may um right now and I'll pass the Microsoft and take a look at it sure definitely sure sure

yeah okay thank you very much

hi uh Jeffrey godro 229 Palmer Street Fall River Mass e-commer yes so yeah I'm just here supporting with Colin's uh ideas um I wasn't here last week for my but my input was in but of course I do support of having this gentleman being uh named in uh into one of the areas I do we can we're gonna have more discussions on this later but I think uh his name on his neighborhood

might be uh good in my opinion but again any any place that will honor his name again uh I think would be good for the city and for the historic thank you thank you any other citizen input or anything um so on notice of intent to demolish these are um notifications I was sent by email from Carrie in the licensing department um item number two is 229 Highland Avenue um doesn't have a Facebook name

um it is listed on the Massachusetts historical commission's database fl.1293 it is part of the Highlands National register district and the Fall River multiple resource area um and I only just received the contact for the apple of the applicant's contact so there they were not able to attend tonight so if alert carry that weren't able to review this but they're proposing and tearing the house down uh the lead to

Charleston Hospital I'll make a motion that we table this matter I'll second the motion I'll second that motion uh all right all right so I have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie the table item number two um all in favor um any opposed all right um item number three uh one Atlantic Boulevard um I did indicate it was not on the Fall River registry of significant structures this was an outbuilding on a property

um item number four 76 13th Street again it's not in the city's registry um and actually that goes alongside with five uh item number five 580 Pleasant Street that is part of the taco complex that they're I believe expanding um both structures are not on the city um and then item number six um this is a partial demolition of the rear porch at 72 Belmont Street um the Chauncey Cirrus house which is

listed on the highlands National Registry District hello hello good evening good evening good evening you wouldn't mind just introducing yourselves on your address please Aaron tetral 1282 Highland Ave all over the mass Joseph cebriano 674 Highland Avenue uh 1282 12.

you're here for 72 Belmonts yes yes um so I um we have received a phone call from a neighbor regarding um going on to the rear porch area yeah um so um any demolition notices that come through even if it's a partial demolition of a structure or an outbuilding on the structure if it's on the net in any of the historic districts that has to be reviewed by us just if there's a waiver that's needed or

um is a national registered district and so that's what prompted um if you wouldn't mind telling the word what you're planning on doing with the property and all the demolitionism is entailed the right back porch was just you know the house is in rough shape so it had to be taken not to be rebuilt built exactly the same as it was the railings we can't match so we're going to be doing um wrought iron okay and

that's on the back porch back front we're gonna make it all match okay um and then was there any is there any other demolition that will be occurring on the property uh back left porch That's Falling Apart we have to redo that one also yeah basically just outside I know there's also a garage there we don't know yet what we're going to do there we need a structural engineer to go in to see

what can we do with it I mean our goal is to keep everything original the house is going to get painted and everything's going to be the same exact colors even the little trim on the leaves up on top we've had a couple of painters who said it's it's going to be a lot of Labor love here and I'm like well we got to just try to keep it as much as possible

the way it looks so the property is it because it's not in the protected local historic district which is governed by um a struggle while 40c um that's the district behind the property on High Street and Rock Street those properties have design restrictions to the exterior or anything that's seen from a public way um so and we don't unless we don't look at pink color we can make

recommendations but we can't approve or deny an application based on paint color just putting that out there and then in terms of the extra the house there's no really no because it's National register it's not the 40c we don't have design restrictions per se however the property is because it is on the national registered is a very significant property to the highlands just between between the original owner

Chauncey Sears who was a noted Mason and contractor built a number of mills in a lot of buildings in the city and then architecturally it's in the National register nomination papers for the district it's regarded as the beautiful queen yeah so it's one of the best Queen Anne's in the city but it needs to be loved it means a lot of love it's a very significant house so the property is eligible for

historic tax credits for redevelopment or Rehabilitation if it's income producing um I believe the property was a and is it eligible for cpc2 or yeah well I could ask a couple of questions is is what are the intents of the property I guess would be the question is it going to be developed is it going to be Apartments uh businesses stay the way it is so there's two apartments on the third

floor yes and then the owner has a universal first inspection yes yeah okay so that's going to remain as is everything is and it's going to be rented or occupied owner occupied it'll be rented it'll be rented out so if that would be eligible for CPC Monies to restore the exterior of the building okay so CPC is the community preservation committee um so any uh is it one one and a half percent of the

property taxes collected in the city I think it goes towards plus a stipend those sorts of preservation grants fund that the city maintains and it goes towards any historic property any restoration work so for example on the outside of the house if uh if there are windows that cannot be replaced for example um tax credits or Grant fundings can be used to replace with something that's historically

appropriate not necessarily for example like vinyl is not but like the composite window or vinyl plaid or something like that or um aluminum plan um and things like um you know restructuring of a porch if it's rotted or falling apart uh Stone rate pointing you know the list goes on the Roth iron rail is going to pretty much squelch a lot of the abilities to get funding the historic significance of the house

because the Roth ion is just going to take away particularly that rounded curved front porch I don't want to keep it around yeah but so if we if we went back to Wood you're saying that there's funds available to just redo it all in Wood practice funds available to maintain the character right right right they exist in home okay and putting in the Raw thigh and will eliminate that those funds pretty much well you know

squelzy the idea where could we learn more information about this uh is there guidelines it's in the guidelines um so on um so we have our preservation I'm sorry our design guidelines um that we published um just a few months ago um it's on our website um which is through uh fall riverma.org um it's the historical commission there's another page saying historic district but that's not functional right now

um but at the very bottom of the historical commission's website there's a link for the design guidelines okay and there's information as to who to contact and so forth regarding the community to preservation grant funding um so that um you know it's a fantastic program it's done a great deal of work with a lot of the historic assets that we have here in the city um do you have extra copies of it too of

the design guidelines yeah we do um so we do have extra copies um if you see if you go to the licensing department up on the fifth floor I think it's the fifth floor they do have copies of the guideline printed copies it's a great book with pictures yeah so this is actually being able to get this produced from CPC funding as well because this was okay yeah you said licensing right licensing yeah

um if you see Carrie in the department yeah so um yeah and the age of the home uh the style of the home the wrought iron just doesn't go with that home so if you if you read it it's not to insult you because I understand iron work is very detailed and quality and whatnot but for this particular home it it's going to take away the quality of the home even

though you don't see it that way once you read the guidelines once you look at other homes that are similar you'll understand why we say what we're saying and it be complementary to the home to keep it wood a great example of a home that's being rebuilt pretty much from ashes is the house on that burned down on um and they've been working very hard at keeping the home

uh as exact as possible and true to the year and the design of the actual home so um particular house they did Windows Windows they even uh sourced a stained glass window to fit in that very specific spot um and yeah and they noticed when they would when they were renewing some of the siding down and tearing down the interior of the home that there were windows on the side that were replaced

by a couple of higher

and considering the Sears house is pretty intact uh I mean it's the the previous song I Believe you just recently purchased a property I believe correct yeah okay so I I think you're the third owner on the property which is pretty fantastic you don't see that a lot um so I mean it's it's a it's an amazing beautiful home it's very significant to the city and once that home is painted

and the exterior is done it's wow next door at the Art Association they are doing work uh using CP c um I think they're rebuilding part of the front porch and are they interested and they're going to remove the Windows fire yeah that's going to get you routed and placed in another location which is not so obtrusive uh they're going to be scraping and painting and doing a lot of

repairs the porch is going to be rebuilt a lot of a lot of work that they're going to be doing and that again is CPC funding that they received that turret is just amazing yeah oh and with the copper Dome that's you know you don't see that very often yeah and that railing by the way there was a Composites are okay yeah yeah because we've done some quotes on on the composite over the wood which is

there are manufacturers out there that will actually bend the composite to match the existing and and give you the spindles uh almost identical ballast is almost identical to what you got and please stick to the um historical height you're in the historic district no actually uh we were in a way we we do a lot in the city but we do everything by code yeah and then when I had this

conversation with Jason I'd learned that you know the historical buildings don't have to go by today's code as long as you stick to the originals so okay so it's it's something that we're coaching we're a little higher yeah yeah no it's cold but your railings are probably at this point 30 or 30 children right yeah yeah and they can remain at that point exactly and what you do is you get across the street and look at

the rail and it should match the window oh that's a good gauge oh okay well the Victorian typically there's some um outliers like if it's a Greek Revival or something those windows are a little lower but that's different um but with the queen in yeah they should line right up with them we're not trying to design your property just information and the more we know I think the better it is and yeah so

regarding um so I can send um uh a letter to was it Frank Frank yes um I can send a letter over to Frank just letting him know that you did come before so any type of demolition work on the exterior um just needs to be brought up with us we'll probably be back because that all right otherwise there's a six-month delay and you know yeah don't tell me you can walk into the property because

before it was just all yeah wooded it's night and day though when the strawberry came down yeah and the house the house itself actually popped out yes and we got rid of the above ground pool that was there you know what's going to happen to the lot it's a big lie we're still so busy on this side we have this now the next big thing is we have Barn we've got projects yeah wake up

right we got projects all over the city you could rehab the bond and rent it that too oh yeah it has been another um like right down the street a bond that was rehabbed uh two actually one on Rock okay so one on rock and the other one on is it Lincoln oh wait yeah I remember seeing one of those High Street it's stunning it really is if it's not a

zoned of like a living quarter because it's historic you're able to do that you didn't get permission If You're Gonna Keep it yeah in a historical form right so what would happen is that if you were going to take that Bond put it back to its original decor make an apartment in there but you were going to develop the outside back to what it was right and get that look again with a beautiful

home and and Bond then you could approach us and good design and it Blended well we would give you a letter of support so when you went to the planning board or the zonings all in you would be able to present a letter of support from the historic committee that you know that falls into a place and it and it would by all means that would be restored that'd be rather interesting to put that

back in in

there are tax credits uh historic tax credits through the state and federal that um on the state and federal level that are for rehabilitation and that would qualify and many of the Fall River contractors do use it could they come before us they get a letter of support from us

on the hill song it might be a significant structure though it could be on the list so the highlands historical the national register district is quite big so depending on where in Pierce because it does extend North it goes on up to Highland and I think it goes up to North Park and there's a Highland and Stanley I think um so houses on that that part of the Highland are on the national register and then

whatever's on President Avenue remember the boundaries going down President Avenue those are not but everything imagine the lower there's a lot and it could be on the significant structures list there's a lot of property out there and the list is on our website as well so it goes my address um it's um sometimes a good clue is if it has Granite Foundation you're probably dealing with a historical okay we got

quite a few in the highlands check it out sure yeah um the and you know we've worked with Developers for um using the historic tax credit program um usually they go with a preservation consultant or so there are firms locally that work specifically with that um so they do basically all the lead work of um doing all the research on the property for us for the application in fact we have a few on our agenda

um so you know they come before us for the tax credit prop uh process and they you know they can tell you exactly what in um I believe it's a 20 um credit towards any qualifying expenses on um any Rehabilitation or restoration of the property so I mean there's good things of being you know in the historic district so um absolutely so um I said just to decide we'd like to

add that expand our 40c district up in that area which will probably be in your put that home in there so but you would have the voluntary sign for that right agree yeah but the point is that we'd like to do that in that area because there's some beautiful homes and what it does is it raises the value of the home it keeps the historic district it elevates everything right it prevents any insensitive

development from occurring in the neighborhood that the house were to come down for an office building or something like that for example um so it's like the hospital coming right across the street from you right so there's that little house that's next door to the hospital they want for parking I mean you know it's two and the house the plan is to keep on buying it yeah yeah I mean

they're in the house is small enough it could be moved somewhere um but anyways so yeah it's not just an aside you have a very large lot there um if that is my fear of looking at Chancey home beautiful lot is that a little soap yeah no yeah but it's such a large lot if someone was to purchase a home one of these historic homes that are up in that area and move it

put it there you might have you know it might be a double win half of the neighborhood there has been and there there is history of infill um when the hospital expanded in the early 80s um they did a big push with the parking garage with parking lots Office Buildings and especially on the Eastern side of the hospital along Hanover Street there are a number of houses that were moved to the Prospect Street too

that were moved elsewhere around the neighborhood um on vacant Lots within the highlands just because they were historic architecturally or culturally and um you know they were saved it would have to be a beautiful house you know you're right yeah so could I just before I I don't want to lose track of this if you CPC has a deadline coming up in September so if you're interested in looking for funds

from the CPC and this you get a lot of requests so not everybody gets the money and some sometime cutting money into smaller portions but you have to apply in September okay uh what I would do is again get on the website affordable website and you want the CPA CPC CPC and it will give you a Nancy a Sandy number will be on there there'll be a number to reach

and then you could get all the paperwork necessary and come up for review but you have to start the process September um or tomorrow or tomorrow might be a little bit better not tonight so regarding their request for this would be a waiver basic order yeah um so they've already you've already removed yes okay um is there any other demo that's occurring or we will be occurring yeah

or bring it back up to the same and okay and now that we now we might go away yeah positive last just as long as you're off yep exactly you're right um okay so I do we need to vote for I just have to contact or out the subject information yeah all right you want me to I'll make a motion that we uh remove the waiver the demolition and allow the project to proceed

as as shown this evening yes well as discussed this evening and if there's any additional demos you'll just have to come before us no we know okay and as a gentle reminder again we we will if you have an emergency that comes up we're not opposed Jason is not opposed to calling a special need okay you've done that in the past what people have had emergencies and we'll call a special meeting and take care of

the emergencies we're here we want to help that's what we're here for we don't want to be an obstructionist we want to be a negative in helping you preserve your property thank you thank you all right so we have a motion by Rick for a waiver of the six-month demo delay provided with no additional demos as per the discussion for the discussion all right do I have a second I'll second

so I have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie to remove the waiver for our discussion all in favor aye in favor any post s thank you for that thank you so much thank you thank you very much everybody all right so item number seven are the correspondence I received um notification from the State Historical commission this is regarding the eligibility of the Ashworth Brothers Mill we have reviewed this in the past

for tax credits so um this is from Joy Beasley The Keeper of the national register of historic places uh in Washington DC this was sent to um I'm sorry those little sense to Miss Beasley from Ben Haley who's in charge of the national register program with Massachusetts historical commission um uh pleasing finding the following nomination form for the Ashworth Brothers Mill Fall River Massachusetts

uh the nomination has been voted eligible by the state review board and has been signed by the state historic preservation officer the owners of the property were notified of pending State review board consideration 30 to 75 days before the meeting and were afforded the opportunity to comment so this is in the process of listing the structure on the national register so there's that um

we do have a number of items eight a through eight D these are continued letters of support from the historical commission for Ryan LLC regarding tax credit applications Unfortunately they were not able to attend tonight um this is for the uh eight a is the ilgwu building at 38 to 43rd Street Sanford spinning Mills at 206 Globe Mills Avenue the Notre Dame rectory at 529 Eastern Avenue and Union built

company at 66 Troy streets so we will need to to the table when do they need these letters in October uh no they need them um so we will need to get a special meeting before then we do have that site tour coming up we're trying to figure out a date at this point okay um so it would likely have to be a virtual since they're coming in from Ryan is

over in Providence but um yeah so okay so we made a motion I'll make a motion that we table this for our next meeting and or a special I'll second that motion all right so I have a motion by Rick a second by Connie uh to table items eights a through eight d for either our next meeting or a special virtual meeting or a special meeting all in favor hi Joyce

is that yes okay uh any opposed no all right so um item nine we have a request for letter support for CPC funding from uh it is Christ the Rock Church my agenda says Chris The Rock Church it's a typo and we do have uh is it Caravan okay if you want to mind just uh introducing yourself and your address please please certainly um Robert canavan 309 Madison Street here in beautiful Fall River

the church correct yes if one of my just explaining the project at hand and absolutely to the best that I can uh thank you to Jason uh and uh Jim Soul too I don't know if there's a relation there is tremendously helpful in this process I took over at the church this past fall after being there five years and there's a lot of repairs that need to be done so

I reached out to um I think it was Jim first and then Jim sent me to Jason and somebody I think maybe you sent me all these articles about the church we're 100 years old and we're on the historic register already but as the Presbyterian church but I think it was you said it the address is what matters not that name so the tower in the back I had sent some

pictures in I don't know if you can see them this way but the yellow highlighted area is um deteriorating where the water's starting to come in in every single Direction so it comes straight down all the way to the lower floor so over the years they've tried to just patch it on the inside with Portuguese Ingenuity and that always hasn't paid off well so we're looking to the previous Pastor was going to sell the

building and so many people came in and wanted to turn it into a dance hall or somebody was actually going to buy it to make it their own residence I thought that was pretty good but everything fell through and when I took over as a pastor I really felt like we needed to keep it a church I love the area and all the investment we've done on the inside we've seen the money come in so

as a Christian we're saying we're trusting God but we're also trusting on CPA fundings and stuff like that as well so our hope is we uh Civ Tech is that Mike and Ann I believe they came and sat with me Mike was actually baptized at that church in the 70s so I took them through the building again and it was a walk down memory lane for him so they're going to help me get

an engineer out structural engineer to see the scope of what we need to do I know the street the church down the street cost well over a million or two million dollars to do their Tower so even if we have to take it in small little segments and sections we're here for the Long Haul so and we're going to put skin in the game too we have some money set aside not a

lot but it might even just cover Civ Tech's fees but we're going to do that and when I asked him today about a dollar amount he said if they push you for a dollar amount say 500 000 I think that would make a dent in it obviously but we won't know until we get an engineer and I think the deadline is September 1st for my eligibility application so I have everything filled out except

the dollar amount so I'm hoping if I get a letter from support from you I have one for the mayor's office I'm just trying to do everything we can to make this move forward well I for one applaud you for taking this on and doing this thank you beautiful it is a beautiful building actually it's not it's nothing no no at churches especially when they so complex in their design and yeah and

this particular one I remember researching the architect I was pretty I can't remember it um isn't that terrible but it was a I believe it was a Boston architect I think it's Providence yeah well yes okay um it's slowly coming back but um it was it's they've done a few a number of different Church buildings in and around yeah Columbia Street I know we did that church as well which is beautiful too so they it's it's

need to see especially when you know Fall River in you know the 1890s through the 1920s had because of the railroad really you had the extra accessibility from all this Talent Architects from Boston from New York um we have you know Fall Rivers fortunately we have a commute in white building downtown like it's you know that's fascinating and and you know this is it's a fantastic building um and

it's a contributing factor to the highlands District absolutely um so I make a motion um to give a letter of support I'll second the motion I have an emotion by Connie and a second by Elizabeth for letter support or CPC uh for their cctc application uh all in favor any opposed all right thank you so much Monday what's up next Monday okay yeah you've been called Sandy okay all right just follow me

Jason no I appreciate it this has been a huge learning application a process and even sitting back there and listening to you guys learning a lot tonight so I appreciate that Jason is an extremely busy man as busy as he is he emailed me back every time the last three days and I I do encourage uh the fire being lit under under me to get the things done

take care so item number 10 um renaming of so uh this is the renaming of Third Street to the uh John uh Jane Baptiste LePage street so the initial request was made to city council from the applicant column diocese it was referred to the planning board um the planning board table the matter on August 9th 2023 uh seeking more information um thank you and um just to reiterate um I think it was speaking of learning

opportunities it was um it's important that um you both came before that meeting we don't want to tear up any um historical districts so I believe it's important that we all work in collaboration not just me and this board but the historical commission this is the renaming for a war veteran who had his dedication torn down I believe the historical Commission it's in this right place to make um help

make a recommendation and um and just reiterating what I went through before the photos I tried to um pull um obviously I didn't go through any entire city but I did try and pull a few members of the community see um where their chances were and a lot of individuals in this community supported rededication and they also supported mine they support rededication with um something that would um something significant

something very significant something very significant in the quote that heroin do something Grand I think important so I just wanted to go through a few um someone mentioned in Bicentennial Park and when this was brought to my attention um it was not too long ago where we had a school named after individual um their RPA is now named the Robert L Medeiros resiliency Preparatory Academy Bicentennial Park

I'm not sure if it's a state property or city property is Dave okay so that's a different animal but again it's something you know I'm I suppose I'm big into symbolism you know you have an individual whose um dedication was knocked down I say we go 10 times higher make something even more grand for him I think that's that would be great for our city to respond in such a way

um some of these may be ambitious some of these were brought um this was actually proposed by a veteran here I'll start with this um we've brought Broadway overpass um if you're going down 138 you're finally reaching it's the first overpass up there um don't believe it's named I believe that would be a first start right here we went over Jake Street where he was um born and raised um

my my concern is you're gonna have a lot of residents have to change their name that's why I proposed Third Street um to begin with because I wanted it in a location where it wasn't gonna be a lot of turmoil for individuals who lived on that street if there is a re renaming of an area where there's property another location right out here right over the overpass you have the flags you

have the bridge beautiful location you have South Main Street right where it reaches from again North Main to Borden I think that would be a great location

Armada but there's a flower no I I'm just concerned that that already has been named but I'm not 100 sure um and the historic district that runs well it does not Encompass that part of South Humane the Fall River down I'm sorry downtown Fall River is just beyond that at February North Main I was referring to the street itself right just seeing what's in the area but um South Main Street in front of City Hall

I think it's just the plaza across with all the flags that has a lot that hasn't oh okay I think it's motto okay sorry no no problem another and again I think it's important that um we keep in mind that residents would have to change their street names and that's something I really just speaking as one where citizen don't worry we want to see it happen um we have the Fall Street we have Route

79 doing a lot of construction down there to redoing the entire um been doing the entire highway so I mean I agree I think a great way for this community to respond is you redo you knock down the Route 79 overpass and respond again you have to Ball Street this is technically Duval Street you have Duval Street North bound you have the Wall Street Southbound just actually brought to me I'm by City

Council which was actually talking about Duval Street as well um so we have Duval Street right here let's rename it Gene Patty's location pastry um we have one third it'd be similar 138 this might be State Property so I know it's a different um different ball game to get that renewed but I guess it would be a question again this is um the questions I'm answering for myself here is my question for the planning board

I'm really here today see do you hear ideas from this board see if we can get maybe a letter of support for one of these proposals or proposal of your own doing so we I so we go back before the planning board at their next meeting and actually get a plan in place for this individual I think it's very important that we do that and it should be a collaboration between

the page family yourself I agree with spearhead and our team here and and the remainder of the city the planning board also but the Corporal the page was born and unborn but raised in the Flint neighborhood and the Houston Avenue the southern part of Eastern Avenue the lower end there were a lot of greens I that is owned by the pothole it's city land in the middle of Eastern Avenue all those greens

are controlled and run they're owned by the city and they're controlled by the pot boys so the tuck boat is always anxious to do something nice and particularly when you forget the family to maintain the property or maintain an island that would also give you and I heard you mention that a monument would be an order well that if you will to get just the top bullet was to allocate one of those

one of those land sections to you and again I'm not speaking to the Blackboard you would have to go before the park board and if they determined that yes it would be in order then you could also start to maybe go before the CPC or go to a veterans organization and see if you could get some funding to get a monument then you would have an island with a nice Monument on there and you could do

all kinds of nice things with it Flags its endless as to what you can do there and expand and it also gives you a place where you can go with a family and you can recognize them on you know certain holidays or significant dates specific to him and he's very historic in that he's a Corporal but he was the first Fall River resident to die or get killed in combat

in the world in World War one so you know there's a lot of value to that historic to even have a bronze plaque with the story written on it in place where it wouldn't just be his name everyone could read what his story was including kids as you're getting older you know people get forgotten and they could they could read all about him um so what with my suggestion is that we take a look at that

and a phone call it I I wouldn't mind making a phone calls and answered the pockboard determine if there's any of those islands that are available that might be available if the board so chooses and again we want to be part of that for you we want to be again for the state of assistance so I would do that and find out get back to you and then we could

further take you know move us along this is not something that's going to happen in a month or two this is something that's going to take a you know a few months to to resolve get a location and then you know determine where and how and the fact that it was tabled by planning state is at least then it's staying planning so they can keep on tableing it while we a group can assemble to

figure out a more appropriate Monument before him what do you think of utilizing one of those islands out there I think that's a great idea I spoke to the um individual as she wrote the ordinance that I went through to go before the planning board um these actually used to be the former veterans agent of the city so I had a in-depth conversation it was actually um he gave the idea of this is actually something people

um but I do like the idea as well um of a certain section when you put a monument there I think that would be um I think that would be a great gesture right there um I believe that wouldn't even understand I'm not an attorney yet but just I'm reading the language I only think that would go before the park board I believe that would still go before planning board I don't want to step on

their toes but um yeah the greens are uh yeah but it's a question have you looked at the Flint area since LePage is from the Flynn area would the dividers on Eastern Avenue offer an opportunity to locate a memorial on those dividers that's what we're talking about Joyce yeah that's what we're referring to you call them divide as what we call them Greens Greens Island yeah so that's actually

what we're talking about exactly and there's several of them as you go down the Avenue and they're most recently from the World War II era uh not from World War one but um they've been used those dividers have been used successfully and again we'll check on it for you but that's uh that's parked forward yes real estate so the planning board absolutely would be involved in this but

then we have to get the authorization from the company and I think historically the the meeting that goes down to Eastern Avenue was a project that was consulted between old stepbrothers and the City of Fall River back what years and years ago 100 years ago or so um so I mean yes in the park swing so there's a tremendous amount of History having Olmsted involved in it I'm definitely after this meeting um when I

leave I'm gonna go by Eastern Avenue and look at some locations and um I'll write it down right now reach out to Nancy um another idea I that I was thinking of regardless so so the Flint neighborhood it's not on the and this is more of a bigger picture item that you know I'm sure the city may be addressing hopefully we'll be addressing soon regarding revital revitalizing the Flint

neighborhood uh because it's that whole District the whole neighborhood's not on the national register but at the end of the of Pleasant Street and Eastern Avenue that whole square there's also the possibility of naming that intersection as you know the John Jean-Baptiste LePage Memorial Square um and that you know that has been done in numerous cities we've had that done here as well if it's

not already named for I don't think it is but if it's not already named for someone it is a very prominent location as it was discussed at the planning board so um maybe we can do Square as well um like that little intersection I could I I know the um president of the Flint neighborhood association I know we just went on vacation but um when he gets back I work with him so

definitely has a conversation right there but I do like the um the dreams I do know um because that would be a great place to put a statue or a dedication is the growth of that would be entirely up to you expanding over the years I feel like with that Memorial I'm on board with that idea um I would just ask the board if they can table this discussion to the next meeting so

we can come back with specifically um maybe the foreign neighborhood of actors maybe it can be brought up at their meeting but definitely um definitely Eastern Avenue I think um I'd love to hear um if we can reach out to what you said Mr lepage's um um I believe great nephew who was at the planning board meeting I think I don't know if we have his information I do he was not able to attend tonight

um he said Tuesday was not a good day for him so if we do another hearing we'll just have to uh figure out a day that works for everyone involved and um yeah I loved I would love to really hear from him as well absolutely

I'll make a motion to table this discussion and carry it into our next meeting to allow us to just research okay yeah that would be great and then I I do have one more question um one I admire that you're you're you know taking this on you're spearheading it and making sure it just doesn't end with the collapse of the overpass um what was your intro like how did you

find out about it what was your interest I don't know the history I I heard about this first in our own news um and it just as one citizen I was just angered and I'll say anger to see that we tore down um would not overcast without without a plan in place for a world one veteran then when I did my research on the individual and see the sacrifices up green up is French upbringing and just

um every all that coming together I because the ambition we took over I admire that thank you we're going to jump in real quick too at the planning board meeting um the one of the planning board members Michael various uh pronouncing them in Paris um he um he's a landscape architect and he did mention that the um State and the land is currently owned by the state there's going to be a lot of

bouncing around before it goes back to the city um but ultimately the city has allocated a space for a memorial for Mr LePage and another individual I know his last name was joking um I had it written down um and so it is Edward Joaquin am I mispronouncing that or joking joking I I know someone with dialysis um

so uh he was so I said it in Portuguese detective uh police detective in a bedroom um so there's another bridge that was removed that was named after him but anyway so the city has allocated a space underneath underneath the new overpass that's being built as part of the 79 project so um and it's right by the Cove Restaurant and but it's going to be underneath the over like a little or it will be a

pedestrian Plaza but it'll be underneath this Highway structure which I don't in my personal opinion I don't think that's appropriate yeah that's not lack of insight or thought put into it right that's underneath the highway overpass it doesn't it doesn't sound glamorous so for somebody who has put his life on the line to serve our country I mean we have several greens throughout the city that uh already named

in similar uh situations Francis green yeah the south end has a green that was rededicated um 15 years ago I recall uh so and there's uh off of East Main Street there's the uh the little Park Plaza um polish history um I can't remember the name but it but it is based on the Polish history that was in the South and off of the experience so there's um I think the Flint is

um so I'm sorry we're just jumping around but I just wanted to get some background on what this city has planned at least for um honoring Mr LePage so we do have a motion by Rick to table for future meeting I'll suck in the motion so I have a motion by Rick and a second by Connie into table um all in favor aye aye okay any opposed if I and if I

may Mr chair wrote quickly um and this has nothing to do with the rededication but with the ordinance itself I understand um you um said you might go before the planning board again I think it's important especially um with the way the ordinance is written that in the future maybe even 10 years in the future so many times in the future you you both only heard about the meeting very recently you otherwise you it for

example it could have passed and we could have had you could have had issues with your historical district I think it's also a good opportunity to take this this moment maybe make a recommendation to the city council or do the planning board my my recommendation would be that city council should maybe adjust the ordinance that that requests like these get forwarded I believe in um in the

in itself it gets forwarded to the mayor's office to the city planners city engineer maybe you're shooting cool language that goes before the historical commission especially that you have on because the fact historical districts in the future with renamings of streets if it's that important to the board and to historical districts as a whole I think it's something you should talk with your

abortion have a discussion about of course and thank you we it's a communication unfortunately is not

so regarding Third Street the original um proposal for Third Street I when I mentioned it um at the meeting I don't think aside for missed uh Chris perano who is the interim city planner I don't believe anyone on the planning board was it was realized that Third Street was at least that little portion from Bedford to Frontage um was on the national registered either I wouldn't have made a recommendation it

was only approved in uh um put onto the national register uh in February um the state approved it in December and then the Washington DC approved it in uh February so um you know it's very new um and then I don't think any few members didn't realize that the buildings across the street on over here on Third Street house residents either um and those just recently became online at least at the ilgwu building that just

opened up for um residence and I believe it's moved in Blossom um so it's still fresh um but we're working on trying to that's why I like the idea of putting the greens as again is No residential impact you know it's a part of our city that we're renaming after him I think retributes the um knocking down of his memorial so I think those are two positives in that direction and as

Connie mentioned the family can go to one of the greens whereas an overpass what are you gonna do a drive and park in the middle of the road you can't do it it just hasn't it doesn't have the recognition that the green would have I agree on Veterans Day in our wreath place there I mean there's ways of honoring him memory and the veterans association will they do the uh they put out the flags um

that would be addressed as well over there so the thing is that we should stay in touch so that work together and keep this group this team and and we will be at the next planning board and we'll again we'll ask that a motion be made to table because this is not going to be resolved in a month the king is as Jason just mentioned keeping it tabled keeps it active you're able to follow it and

maintain it doesn't get lost or buried and the uh this uh the roadway construction on 79 that's I think I think six is the anticipated completion here so we have time I don't want this to be you know drawn out for I don't think you want to be this will be drawn out for three years but you know it'll be great to have something right I just understand my short time um

following the city in general I I can see how things get thrown under the rug around here so I I think it's important that things be kept on to have it go through they're keeping you know from keeping these table with the various committees is good because you can keep bringing it up it's looked at every month no I I agree with that something and uh again if you like the Flynn idea the greens and um

maybe put out put our sights on that see what can we can do what can be done that would happen rather quickly you'll reach out to Nancy I'll call Nancy the next day or two okay I can send her an email but I'll get to her from either you know as a historic sure thank you very much thank you for your good work on that thank you thanks for understanding

no I appreciate it thank you for keeping on this topic as well thank you have a great evening thank you item 11.

um so um it's the creation of a study committee regarding the expansion of the 40c Highlands local historic district so there has there we have inquiries from Neighbors in the surrounding area that seeking to list it um and so that does prompt the creation of study committees so I did reach out to Jennifer Doherty uh with the she's in charge of the uh local programs with the Massachusetts

historical commission uh regarding the process so she said Mo it depends on the city but some cities require the initial request from the historical commission to city council but in the case of whatever we don't need a request to city council to create a study committee if we already have a pre-existing 40c District the the existing historical commission acts as the study committee

unless there are members who don't want to serve on study committee if there are members from our board that do not want to serve on the study committee I do need to make the request to the mayor's office and city council to find candidates to serve on the study committee so with that said it's different if we're proposing a whole new District because we would have to get stakeholders involved

but if there are members that we want to add into our group we can certainly did she talk about individual homes or does it have to be connecting so if this so if it's individual homes that's a new that would be considered a new District okay um so we have to find a way to carve out the area so what happens next is regarding so once we create a study committee committee should send out

basically figure out a map area what houses what areas of the neighborhood so this is the highlands so anything around the district um you know if there's houses that you think should be earmarked or at least considered we should send out a mailer probably to a much larger area the mailers basically a survey to the homeowners Property Owners indicating that we are looking at expanding the 40c

district there is a template on the um on the State commission's website basically as a sample of what that survey looks like uh preservation Society sent out a survey I know we have a copy of it too that um we I know that they did a lot of um research with the mass historic commission and so we I think we tailored it to the neighborhood right and you were you on the study committee for the

first go-round okay um so um you know we could send it out through mail that's a good uh I mean that's the best option the other another option is possibly having some sort I don't know if we could do like an online thing like an online mail is best because a lot of homeowners don't necessarily live um very true so um and we they would have the return uh the Richer mailer or the return address

at least the to sit back um and that can go to Kerry and Government Center so um just to get feedback and we would have their address we would say you know we'd find out if they want to be in the district or not um there's you know this is this is a multi-step process we do have to get four of these if the district is kept relatively small I think we could

probably do the form B's ourselves or if we can if there's any assistance we might be able to get um the study report I think we would need to we do need to study reports so this um Jennifer did send over the template for the study report which goes to her anyways um so I could send that around so you have an idea of what what's entailed for the study report Elaine Styles is profession

Roger Williams University and she has normally 10 to a dozen students in a semester that she she can allocate to do for these that could even be like a master's student um like their Capstone project when I was at Roger Williams we had to do a Capstone project and one of the options could be like a national register nomination or a Formby and they have helped with the cocky row yes those

students that Roger it was a lame who did Clocky row um Jennifer at the state commissioned also mentioned that they will be opening up their application process for grant funding um so if we do need funds to hire consultant or somebody or anyone that can help with the form B's because that could I think that's the daunting project is to form these um especially considering that the I did

look at the Highlands National register packet there's um they're the what they have for the national registered District it's very very um my house has a Formby but yeah it's very minimal it's like two sentences yeah and most of the houses in we had to update the form bees that were done when we were doing the 40c so that takes um you know like it did only have like one

or two lines we did have someone a historian in the city who helped us look up stories we also had a lot of volunteers through the historical uh through the preservation society that uh use the historical society's archives to get a lot of information which a lot of us can now get online because we you know through historical newspapers and whatnot and create the story for each house and again if it's not big

it's doable um and what size would that be a big well currently the 40c district it was done by all volunteers it took us it took us a long time because um it started when we had to take pictures with film like we literally were taking film because I remember we had to send the roles in the undeveloped roles yes so it was that long ago so I'm you know

now it's much easier even going you can take a picture you can digitize it pretty quick and get it rolling so that's why I asked before you couldn't go down the middle of a street you had to go through backyards hence why ours is carved the way it is um yeah and um so the they will allow a boundary line down the middle of the street we just have to justify the

reasoning for that um so if we were hypothetically if we were to do the highlands I'm sorry if we push out towards Highland Avenue hypothetically the hospital is at the boundary line because that the only thing that I would suggest you know is me just thinking of um the granite wall around the hospital would be that's not listed as an object anywhere um but that is that's part of this part

of the real estate that used to be there but um so with um in the formby's the the the perform bees that are on the state the template um I have a current copy so I could I can email email that to everyone so they have an idea of what is required it is detailed um uh but um fortunately um a lot part of it though is pretty simple part of the Party symbol yeah

part of it is like looking at the house and it doesn't have a granite Foundation is it yeah architectural so that that pot it's the um yeah the very end where um the research the research is so fun it is I love it and it's fun but time consuming very time consuming and you can't just do it from home yeah usually and the building records are so they're they can be very inconsistent uh here as

I found out um so because they don't have building somehow they're like the houses that were surveyed back in the 80s if there's a in the you know their their documents that they have to list what they've researched oftentimes to use the water department yeah for to figure out when water the preservation Society does and they have their records are intact it's very very cool system that they have

um but the building department on the other hand like I've seen where it says a permit number for a year it'll be you know number 235 but if you go to the building department they have no recollection of what that is they don't know where to look for it um they don't have records from you know more than 50 years ago so I don't know if that's something that if they were

passed over to the Historical Society or they are just lost well when you were um we didn't we didn't um did you have a need to use those no no um we used a lot of like newspaper articles the water department we have the preservation Society has a plaque program you know the plaques you'll see on the homes and so we actually every time someone requests the plaque we research the home and we go through the

water department we go through historical newspapers to to find the year we also go through the Deeds registry of deeds and that's entirely online now too most of it until you get really far back and then look at it you can you go to unregistered yes I know but trust me I know how to do it uh except um there are some that you have to go no you have to go down to the Deeds

office and there's these huge books and you have to research those books because you get to the point even on those that are called undocumented what are they called um unregistered something like that registered books or yeah so it's like before 1960 anything before 1960 you have to switch your your search to the books and um but then when you look at the other ones like it's all like handwritten obviously and

you can really get far back to when the house was built so that you can get in a year because if you go into the city's um what is that that page called Patriot Properties everything was built in 1900 everything was like 1900. yeah so um I just have to do that at pal yeah and it's cool because you find stories you find stories of weddings that took place or funerals uh fires and look at

the um the house on Hanover that the hospital wanted to take down um just through looking at the digitized newspapers realizing that the Builder of that house was owns he and his brother owns a small company small Brothers uh rope taping company on Prospect but Reuben small was Park commissioner got uh North Park Landscapes through Olmsted and then we have a Fall River Block in the Pilgrim

Monument because of his contribution he was originally from Provincetown um so and that's these are that's information thank goodness that all the resources were being digitized now yeah um but um and the newspapers back then were they're great they're so I mean really some detail that you say wow and what I'm fighting too I always push the architect because I love to build a portfolio of you can connect the dots

and you can see similarities between between them um you know then uh you know I I'm I find a lot of that information in the newspapers because if the building records don't exist it's usually listed somewhere in the newspaper yeah like so and so from you know Boston Design of this house and you can't find that you can also look at Census records Census records really help to tell you who lived where

um the libraries don't manage public library has done a wonderful job at either I believe they're up to 1930. now with their newspapers that have been digitized it's all free online on their website I know it's amazing um and a lot of these houses at least in the highlands I don't think they're we don't some of them are older than the rest there might be some that might be as old

as I'd say like 1850 but I don't think we would have anything older than that um the bulk of that won't happen except for that one little house but the bulk of the Highlands I believe for the most part it's 1870 through 19 stragglers but um and even the newer ones when the national register District was written up in the 80s even the newer houses they're over 50 now um I'm thinking of some on I think

Prospect Street um they're in Phil but they were they're over 50.

um so they do qualify as a historic house so but yeah so we had some requests from Belmont Street French French Street and Underwood so we're looking at a sizable area but so first things first um you know if we were to approve the creation of the study committee I do have to let I want to ask Alice and Bouchard the clerk to figure out what that process is because I think we would have to

we would have to hold a regular meeting as a study committee which we can easily do at the end of the historical commission meeting kind of like how we did the historic district before we did the historical commission then historic historic district before we merged um so that might just be something that she just has to do internally is to create on the city's papers a study committee

um and then with the with the members and then um the mailer you need to get the survey done which you know to prove the language on that pretty easily easily um I also recommend we we did this as well we had back then it was Chris in at the historic commission come down and actually it was like a um an informational for homeowners to attend so where they could have their questions

you know answered once we have an idea of a neighbor of the area um you should create a map um and I can ask Chris for if there's a way of getting getting a copy of like a GIS map of the neighborhood I know they're available online but if I can get them printed on the sizable thing we can figure out like Target some houses or at least a neighborhood area and it's

better to start a little on the bigger side and if we need to shrink it down we can shrink it down um which I think is always the case when we create a historic district you always start big and you have to kind of Whittle it down um and this is the expansion of the district not the creation of a new one so um in terms of like the significance when it comes to the study report

um you know we can kind of pick you back off of the we can piggyback off of the initial study of the initial creation of the for the sea um and then yeah so we will have to have public meetings with the homeowners um that is part of the process and then ultimately once we have the paperwork and the blessing from the MHC then it's a matter of presenting it to

city council which they I believe we two-thirds Council vote we don't need and we don't need every homeowner we don't need every homeowner in the proposed District to agree you should but it's not a requirement um from that's what Jennifer said we do just need a two-third City Council vote to enact the district um and part of this also would help I think push the need to um the planning to or even Zoning for

that matter to consider recognizing the 40c as an overlay District I think that often gets um when you pull up a property on the Assessor's website or in their database here it is it is flagged that it is in the 40c at all but if you create an overlay Zone then automatically it comes up as you know their their Zone but then um you know it has the overlay Zone

attached to it and I think that would help push but then at least homeowners when they are when somebody's buying a house in the neighborhood and the realtor is doing their due diligence and they set out with zones you know s for single family houses but there's an overlay Zone and you're in the whole historic district so that's something create a larger District that might Force the creation of an overlay Zone so

do we think we have bandwidth to do this yeah absolutely okay all right Joyce any questions on this at all no okay are we still an open discussion no we're not we're almost on item number 11. so all right so this is in regarding um so I think we just need a a motion to create a study committee I'll make a motion to create a study committee right I'll suck in that motion okay here we go

everyone so I have a motion by Elizabeth and a second by Rick to create a study committee regarding the expansion of the 40c Highlands local historic districts all in favor aye aye aye opposed all right let's begin here we go here we go and next year will be 10 years since the creation of the see so that would be fun um right so 10 years so that's this is exciting um we have no no old business

um anything regarding local discussion at all yeah I just have a note yes of appreciation to the chairman who sent us an email recently on the um MHC online training which I will gladly make myself available for because I felt early on there we we needed some Basics and I'm looking forward to it so I want to thank the chairman for bringing it to our attention thank you very much the training sessions are very very

wonderful and very informative um we had that one on creating a local historic district so I'm here I want to do their uh there's a few on there that I'm interested in doing yeah they're all during the day though

um so we have a number of items that are tabled um so we uh regarding the items from Ryan LLC um they're we're working on that tour of the building so she did say that we can do all four um I have to figure out how what the day and the time I think she said it's going to be on a Monday um but um you know there's I just had to ask Allison regarding um quorum

um yeah I didn't respond because I'm I'm flexible so that's why I didn't want to restrict I do believe that we are able to meet I have to just double check with Allison I believe we are able it's as long as we don't discuss board business exactly but these are items that we have reviewed so we should be we should be able to meet we just can't discuss anything um so

I'll send a disclosure form to Allison as well um so yeah we have that and um we can probably get a virtual meeting before their deadline which is coming up um so but everything else Third Street Mr Dyas what else do we table oh 229 Highland Avenue I only just recently got his contact information so you enough time to get him over here um I think that was it so we'll have a couple meetings coming from

um so it is 7 29.

um so um it's a 729 I may have got a motion to adjourn the meeting I'll make a motion to adjourn all right I have a motion by Connie and a second by Rick to adjourn a meeting at 7 29 PM our next meeting our next meeting will be scheduled hearing um unless otherwise will be Tuesday September 19th 2023. uh I got a all in favor of adjourning