8.22.2023 Fall River City Council - Committee on Ordinances & Legislation

the legislation will now come to Auto Madam clerk will you call the roll please

here councilor Washington here charity here pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio a video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings and Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledgeable and permissible first item on the agenda is citizen

input we have one individual who has signed up Eileen can't reach the last name Eileen Sheehan 187 Plymouth Ave subject matter is Plastic Bag Man

so I'm new to this I don't know how this stuff works but so we give you the opportunity to talk on the subject matter which is the plastic band did you

feel thank you okay and one for the clerk thank you I'm uh here to say Let's uh become 160.

it's a really good number for us um as you may know I'm not a resident but I'm a very long time employer in Fall River 35 years and more I think um born in Fall River so it's important uh I don't know how I talk about your bill except that this had asked the Sierra Club to look at what your proposal was and these are the comments that he has made

it wouldn't be the worst thing but I do want to just if this is relevant say that plastic shopping bags the thin film bags that used to be called t-shirt bags we get pushback about why should we get rid of them I think they were invented around or became popular when I was about 20 years old that may not be young but this is not something that we had lived with for a

very long time it's something we became accustomed to we liked it was cheap but what we weren't aware of and we are now is the tremendous Devastation it's a killer these bags and other kinds of plastic but especially these thin filled flags are killers in the environment organisms get strangled on them they feed and the plastic pellets destroy them they float and create all sorts of

problems you know that stuff and you passed your ordinance I'm just saying that if there is pushback we didn't always have them we can make a healthier climate and the reason 160 is important is that if you could accommodate or pass this we would be the 160th city in Massachusetts to have passed this and I think that that's something that we should all be proud of great thank you thank you very much

item number two is the minutes for July 25th 2023. motion to approve motion motion approved made by Council proposal second by Council Liberty discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so vote of motion carries honestly um we have proposed ordinance traffic handicap parking which was referred to the committee on August 15th motion for emergency preamp motion for emergency Preamble was made by Council

proposals in the second second by Council of Liberty metal clerk will you call the role Liberty yeah counselor opposal yes counselor Washington yes yes so the handicap locations will be Hamlet Street North starting at 0.77 feet west of Melville Street for a distance of 20 feet Westerly Middle Street North Side starting at Point 123 feet east of Whipple Street for a distance of 20 feet

easterly and then Winter Street East Side starting at a point of 67 feet south of Cherry Street for a distance of 20 feet southerly is there a motion to adopt motion to adopt through all readings all readings motion was made by proposal by Council of Liberty discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so voter motion carries unanimously uh item number four is the proposed ordinance traffic miscellaneous

striking sections 7 7387 as it relates to handicap parking for the following streets uh 5th Street Alden Street Barnaby Street Bradford Ave Buffington Street Charles Street Division Street Globe Street and Merchant Street motion to pass through first reading motion and pass through first reading was made by console proposal second by Council of Liberty discussion seeing none of those

in favor aye opposed so voted motion carries item number five are amendments regarding registered and certified mail notice requirements uh this proposal is just changing just that striking out language in the ordinance for certified mail and replacing that with registered registered I'm sorry striking registered mail replacing with certified mail and that's solely for the cost associated with registered mail

motion to passive first reading motion of passive first reading was made by Council proposal seconded by Council Washington discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so voted motion carries announced item number six is a resolution to convene a discussion uh for the creation of a tax work-off program for veterans that was adopted on April 11 2023 I'd ask the administration who was here

for this to come down I think this is a pretty straightforward resolution so if the committee is in favor of this we would just need to adopt mgl chapter 59 section 5n which does allow the community to have a veterans work off program not to exceed fifteen hundred dollars I don't know if the veteran agent wants to speak on on the issue or the administration we have the assessor as well as the Assessor

welcome South Aiken City administrator Michelle Hamilton veterans service Dan Lane tax assessor so just for some I'll turn it over to the vso in the assessor momentarily but just for some background we did a well the the vso the CFO and the assessor did a lot of research into this and currently there are six other comparable towns that do this kind of program um one of them has zero participants the

rest have between 20 and 70 participants um we have what at last count 302 veterans that would fall into this category so um or that could conceivably fall into this category there's some question as to whether or not how many of them own their own homes and how many of them already get an exemption based about 100 disability so if there's a service related disability there's already

exemption that goes along with their veteran status and so we could probably do some further research to figure out the number of veterans that exist in these other towns Chelsea Lawrence Medford Newton Revere and Waltham to figure out an estimate of how many we think might participate in Fall River if we were to Institute the thing to know is that if veteran were to take advantage of the program the work

off would have to be at a job that exists within the city it would be under the same terms and conditions of any other employment within the city including comp if they got injured on the job it could there's we've had some discussion as to whether or not this could also maybe work in the schools in order to figure out how to distribute that the thing to remember is that um

the tax overlay is impacted by this if it's a city if they work a city job not if they work a school job so there's some way to to sort of have our cake you needed to um and and I think the assessor can speak to that a little bit uh with that I want to turn it over to the vso she can give a little bit more context for

what the impact of this program could be if the council were to vote at forward so doing some research on the various cities and what the guidelines are that they've used within their cities there's a huge amount of variation but most require that the veteran be in a position to do the specific job so you have to be qualified to do the job it isn't just hey we need to find a place

for you and we're going to put you there the veteran needs to be able to give back kind of sort of you know um one thing to keep in mind that if we do do this that income is federally taxable to the veteran so we kind of want to make sure we're very clear about that um

the workers the law reads that they cannot make less than minimum wage so that means you're looking at about a hundred hours of service time for the fifteen hundred dollars there's a lot of stipulations you can't have somebody else do the work for you you have to do the work yourself you have to live in the home so it can't just be your mortgaged home you have to live in that home too which I don't

think we know according to the list how many of these homes are actually veteran occupied either if you're on the deed it may or may not be veteran occupied and if they have a VA loan that's part of the criteria so there's a lot of unknowns as far as the number of veterans that we would get that would qualify and be able to apply it kind of seems like if we're going to

try it I think we should have a limited number to work on the program and make it workable for the city as well as for the veteran yeah I think to that point um so the administration for the way I guess the way I understand is that the city council would adopt the general law in the section that would allow the administration to be able to utilize this so with at that point it

would be up to the administration on how really to implement this and whether or not you even want to put a subcommittee together to figure out who the you know qualified applicants would be for that that that's what I've seen in the past with some of these types of work off programs that there is usually some type of committee whether it's ah employees that are that are on the committee or just you know actual

residents that are on the committee so I guess I'd be interested to the the impact and specifically the I guess what the difference would be from having a job within the city side of the uh operation versus the schools so um the impact obviously is going to hit the overlay just like a regular uh senior exemption or a veterans exemption if it's up to fifteen hundred dollars just just for the folks that don't

understand that meaning that it's going to be spread out amongst the other taxpayers I'm sorry yes yes um so it is part of the annual budget so it isn't free money um if they're a city employee it will impact the overlay if the if we've talked about uh maybe being able to put people into the school system to uh help out there that would not impact the overlay it would

um come out of the school budget I believe is that correct oh I see what you're saying so you're not getting the double hit already right good okay question uh Council proposal yeah I think my biggest interest would obviously be would the school department be open to this considering the school department has so many positions that are open you know could could some veterans serve in some of those roles

that they can struggle the six pages length of positions open so I would be interested if we could contact the school department or or even forward a letter to them and see if they have interest in something like this because if we could push it forward to give the administration the ability and then they can consult the school department that could be a good program for for everybody involved so

just my two cents in that I yields they have a discussion Council Washington um so I just want to make sure I'm getting this correctly so they have to for the 1500 they'd have to volunteer 100 hours that's a lot um and so and then they have to pay taxes on the fifteen hundred dollars on the federal level so they're gonna have to pay taxes so they have to work two and a half weeks

and they have to then pay some money back on the fifteen hundred dollars that's how the law is written so do you think so I'm just trying to think of struggling veterans that I've worked with you worked with everybody else here knows are these veterans that already work full-time where are they going to find the time to work for two weeks two and a half weeks to earn fifteen hundred

dollars is there communities that are doing it differently that are doing it better what is your thoughts I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this and what I've seen the cities that are doing it are doing it exactly as the law is written 100 hours it's the fifteen dollars an hour the legislation is written in such a way that it is taxable to the veteran they all are toeing the line yeah so I

guess it would be more beneficial for maybe someone that's completely 100 disabled and not working or a retired veteran but maybe except if they're 100 disabled generally they're getting a tax deduction anyway right it's interesting do you think this is a great idea or a good idea I think it could be improved is that am I open it up to my philosophy is we always can do better we can yeah so we always can do

better I guess we can put it on the books and see if anybody I mean if someone uses it and has a two and a half weeks to do it but it's just wow that seems like a lot of work for a fifteen hundred dollar um deduction that you're gonna have to pay on anyway well think about it though it's not a commitment to a 40-hour work week right yeah so they've got a whole

year to do the work maybe they have a week off in the summer they bang out a bunch of hours again they it has to be a job that the city needs so there's there's some I get I'm just wondering if there's if we could do better by our veterans they're like a better plan to do for our veterans and men and women that served our country like that they don't have to I don't

know I don't know I'm just saying that just seems like a on all awful lot so um that's just my sentiment with that I yield yeah so I guess just to that point it's very limited anytime you have any type of tax write-off very pigeonholed into what the Massachusetts General law allows for right so even even when you have uh seniors on fixed income they're very limited that what you can do in

terms of you know trying to get write-offs I know we've looked at various programs but some communities are even looking at a program where it's almost like a reverse mortgage so you lean the property and so that helps some of the seniors but there's not a lot of options that are out there uh to assist with veterans and seniors who cannot afford their you know real estate taxes what I will say is this from from the

legislative body um essentially all we would be doing is is really just adopting the law and it's just really giving the administration another tool in their tool belt to really kind of identify if there is a need to allow the veterans to go ahead and utilize that and then it would obviously be on the administration to figure out how that what that looks like what the program looks like how it works and

whether or not the you know school department or the or the city has the the ability to get or even if they have the willingness to to want to because there is some concerns with you know you put somebody on there and then if they get hurt this work is comp things like that that have additional liabilities associated with that so that would be on the administration to figure out if the

you know the cost benefit analysis makes sense from that standpoint any other discussion is there a motion make the motion to adopt second so motion to adopt chapter 59's uh subsection uh section 5n was made by Council proposal second by Council of Liberty any further discussion seeing none all those in favor aye opposed so vote in motion carries unanimously item number seven will need a motion to

lift from the table that's a proposed ordinance for a thin film plastic bags which was stable on May 25th 2021 motion to lift from the table thank you emotional Council proposal second by Council Liberty all those a favor aye opposed so voted um I'd ask Corporation Council to come down just to bring everybody up to speed so back uh in on May 25th 2021 the committee did table this uh a draft

ornance was presented to us by KP law KP wall was here along with the administration and cooperation Council to discuss this it was tabled due to the fact there was questions about who would be doing the enforcement aspects of it I think overall everybody was in agreement with the um actual draft ordinance that was submitted there was a question about transition into this and I think Council

uh Liberty brought it up and that there's 180 days that has been put in there so if this does pass it would allow for um store owners to go through the inventory that they may have on their site so with that I'll open up for any discussion or questions Council Elizabeth has that enforcement piece is this the updated one or is this the one from the last time this would be the one from the last time

so I know there was various discussions about who could potentially do that I think Corporation Council has suggested uh the Board of Health if I recall yeah that's similar to what other communities tend to do yeah I think you're right I I think we we did leave off a little bit of the conversation about just the ordinance in general if you don't mind if I could speak of that um you know the best practice is

whenever you have an ordinance is to kind of first establish what the problem is and I'm going to go through this briefly I understand that some of this is probably a little beyond the scope of Corporation Council I mean this is largely a legislative issue not a corporation council issue however you know when if something were to be challenged in court you know the court is going to ask you know what is the

issue that you're trying to resolve and how is this tailored to meet that objective um you know before I get into this let me let me say you know the legal environment no pun intended I think it would pass I do there have not been a whole lot of challenges I think there's a movement for things like this um however I you know challenge could happen and there are some gray areas here because you know

I'm not sure any Community has really established what the goal here is specifically like what's the problem in the Fall River I'm not sure that's ever really been answered um you know saying to help the environment is one thing but when you have numerous more bulky item plastic things that are everyday usage such as trash bags such as K-Cups such as beverages um you know there's been some studies that have come out

um opponents to legislation like this that's out there and I'm just not sure that this body has seen it and you know have copies of things now what I have copies of they're biased against the ordinance um and you know I do question some of their stats but I think it's at least worth having a discussion before this this body were to vote on it and you know I've highlighted it so you don't

have to read through everything you know I guess the first question is so um you know what are we trying to prevent here that's a question I think the the body has to ask themselves and how was the ordinance supposed to solve the problem so as I said before one of the issues that the opponents bring out is why are the thin film plastic bags being singled out when everything else is still allowed specifically

when these plastic bags are and now once again the statistics I have here I do question some the veracity of them but they say you know 76 percent of the people report that they actually recycle these bags they use them for their own trash bags they use the trash cans they use them to pick up pet waste and things of that nature so one of the one of the questions that the opponents have is

well why are we eliminating the one thing that's actually reused by people so a kind of a subsequent argument from that is if you eliminate this from the community people are going to buy more trash bags more plastic trash bags of a a greater thickness so that you're going to have greater you know more thicker trash bags in the landfills that you have than the thin film that the grocery bags are the

second thing they they tend to point out is that uh you know does this city intend to have any kind of data to back up that there's been some kind of benefit so of course typically you try to set forth what your goal is that you're trying to accomplish and then you might take a look back and do a study a year or two down the road to say hey did we accomplish our goal

and you know what the opponents will basically say is nobody's nobody's doing any studies here um although San Francisco apparently did a study and they found that there's minimal to no change in what they were expecting now I guess what they cited was number one that the trash bags generally are not linked with the killing of any animals so one of the they call the red herons is that they're you know for example 500

000 birds are annually linked to their death to wind turbines and less than a hundred are linked to the plastic bags using grocery stores so to lump in all plastic kills animals they're saying that this isn't one of the things they say that the trees more trees will be cut down paper bags usually increase from five to thirty percent which is increase and you know uses of cutting down trees it talks

about there's been an increase in shopping cart theft and then there's also studies that basically say that these bands have are more problematic and lower income communities so you know if it's not a community that will pull up in their SUV anybody uses public transportation or walks or bicycles the plastic bags are are more helpful in communities like that so as I said at the beginning

I can I can produce the stuff I have which is admittedly very one-sided but I at least wanted this body to address you know what is the goal what what are we trying to accomplish if it's just a litter issue is this really that's going to something that's going to stop it as a side note I've noticed that Stop and Shop in Fall River has already gotten rid of it

um I have no evidence to support this but I have heard part of it was just cost for them meaning the self-checkout lines I've heard that theft is up residents are stealing the plastic bags to go use for their trash cans and other purposes so now they've eliminated them they'll charge 10 cents a paperback so you know one thought is do we want the the market to determine whether or not

to get rid of the use of the plastic bags considering Stop and Shop which is probably the biggest grocery retail in the city I know what three locations in the city you know they I know Robin Street has banned it I know Somerset has banded I don't know about Marriott Boulevard so anyway that I just want to at least present that if anybody wants it I do have the uh as I said the one-sided

opposition papers that I can present to anybody who wants it but going to the ordinance itself other than the enforcement aspect which councilor Kadeem brought up I mean really the only thing I would really change in the text is section the purpose and intent I mean the purpose would really be to eliminate the retail distribution and distribution of the thin film plastic bags I think I would

put take out the word regulate insert the word eliminate and then probably put a sentence After Fall River you just get rid of to encourage the use because we're really not encouraging we're demanding the use or reuse of biodegradable bags so I was just going to bring up that section because it does talk to the purpose and the intent so the purpose of this article are to regulate the retail distribution

of thin film plastic bags with integral Handles in the city of Fall River to encourage the use of reusable or biodegradable bags and to encourage retail establishments to offer reusable bags so I think and I appreciate the comments that you have made I don't think we're gonna save the environment with this just this one ordinance but I think it's a step in the right direction I think there are again we just heard it

was 159 communities that have already done it the state's already looking at it at the state level I do not want to diminish though the cost impacts because I I think you're spot on for you know especially Gateway cities where income is is low and then you go into these uh supermarkets and then you're charged the bags uh Stop and Shop is charging I didn't realize how much it

was uh 10 cents I didn't spent like 400 000 Grocers and they asked me how many bags I had and I was I was like all right just add it to the 400 that you just charged me so I mean I don't know I don't know what to tell you I'm in the same boat um that's why they wait that extra 10 seconds but I I think originally I and I think comes a little

bit you're the one that drafted the resolution I think the intent was number one um I think there was um some you know trash bags just being the litter of the trash bags every time you have a a windstorm you see trash bags uh going all over the place and I would also say that yes why they while they are reused a lot of times they are reused for trash and they just end up in

the in the trash can anyways at some point so if we can do something to help kind of mitigate the the harmfulness to the uh to the environment then you know I think I would support that but I don't want to dismiss you know some of the items that you have identified so I will turn it over to Council in Liberty the opposition is that something that was submitted no I was just looking into you

know when they're trying to figure out whether or not it's going to be legal you try to look at what the challenges would be um so there's I wouldn't say it was the Groundswell but there are people who are angry about the the band so they publish a few things as they said they have many statistics which some seem outrageous to me um but there's at least it's nice to

read what the attack will be if they ever show up okay understood and and received and like you said that the big stores are they're already doing it here and whether it's cost or whether it's um for the environmental impact or because there are other stores in all of the surrounding communities that have band plastic bags so they're already doing paper bags there maybe it just makes it

easier for them all together I don't know the answer to that but it is one step in the right direction for both addressing litter and the environment and this has been since 2021 and I will remind you that while it was discussed various times on the council floor and I see former Council Camara here as well it was the middle school kids that brought this to us and I mean I think it's really time that the

adults follow suit and and do what we can in Fall River we I feel like Fall River is always behind on issues of importance whether they're environmental or not and I'm obviously supporting it I I did the draft of the resolution the only question that I wanted to bring up um attorney Ramsey is in the citizens impact there was a input there was a possible proposed change just from three

Mills to four mils on the bag and there was a reason why and it would um there's a proposal at the state as well did you happen to I didn't get a copy of that and maybe that's just something we would want to take into consideration

I mean I know what some communities have done um is they just make a thicker bag that's actually one of the arguments against the band is you know if you if you ban the 0.3 whatever the number is and then they're just going to go to a 0.4 now if you band The 0.4 it might go to a 0.5 so now you're throwing away thicker plastic rather than thinner plastic but as far

as whether or not it's going to be a legitimate you know an effective ordinance I legally won't matter I mean I think if this if this body wants to do 0.3.4 it's not going to change the legal analysis of the validity okay I know that Walmart has some come up with reusable plastic bags that are they're great they're better than any any bag ever I mean I save them they are environmentally friendly and they're

much better than the t-shirt bags or the thin bags but with that I yield Council proposal yeah just two thoughts really around this um the first one would be that retail like price rate in the city currently has what I would consider to be the thicker bags they probably they're not t-shirt bags they're definitely thicker and stronger but they also charge for them so you have the

option to either buy them at I think 10 cents a piece or not and bring a box or bring your reusable bag and I think it it probably does two things in the sense it solves the issue of bags just being thrown away and wasted but at the same time something more durable I think the only problem that I have particularly with the thin plastic bags is you can't really recycle them so you know I I

probably have like 70 at my house all bunched up together and there's no way to put them you know years ago you were able to like Stables used to have a bin but you could recycle them and they would process them what have you now you don't see that so really you end up with a bunch of these thin bags either to pick up dog waste what have you or they end up in the garbage so

I I obviously with the paper bags like you go to Dartmouth you'll be able to use them and put them right in the recycling bin because they're paper so you actually I think do better than not going something along the lines but again I think to your point attorney rumsy I agree with you that if we go to Just The increased thickness then have you really solved the problem is my question so

um but I'm more in the toe to support this because I think in long term I think we're doing better off than not so I yield thank you Council Washington I spoke with Clint today he had called um from the Massachusetts conservation and he had said changing the language to um no polyethylene bags at all which would then counteract the thickness issue and if they um just said instead of thin filled film

bags I just wanna I don't know if I'm 100 getting that right I don't know if anyone else talked to him but um the language be changed to no polyethylene the cell of polyethylene bags at all so I don't know if anyone else has heard that but with that I yield there are some communities that have that language in there or it's got to be used you know fiber bags are allowed deposit

yeah I think just my my thoughts here just because we're receiving this now uh before the meeting I'd like to do some more research exactly what that means um because again I'm not a scientist by any means the imagination so um I'd like to understand a little bit more what other communities are doing um and how obviously there's 159 of them that do it so you know how does any of

them change is any different also if this is a matter at the state level what is the proposition of this day level looking like and is it different from what the 159 communities are doing or not would be a question I'd like to I'd like to understand a yield okay so I'm in support I prepare to support this tonight with some some amendments um but what is the committee's will do

you need more time do you want to refer something back to Corporation Council if we're looking to support this the only thing I would ask is that Corporation Council you hadn't mentioned under Section 2653 the purpose and intent you had mentioned that you would change regulate to eliminate eliminate and then in the sentence after city of Fall River to take out the rest of the sentence yes so yes

I'm sorry so after in the city of Florida then you're looking to strike to encourage the use of reusable biodegradable bags that's correct in all that language

okay and then the reason for the table was the enforcement um so I guess are we I don't know that it needs to be in here the enforcement piece correct I think that can be kind of an administrative thing that doesn't need to be used as to who will be enforcing it correct okay so I think the ordinance could pass with that it could pass even without the revision I suggested I mean it's it's a

well-written ordinance I think it could pass um all right so that was my only question because I was going to suggest that maybe we would identify who the enforcement department would be and and we try to slot that somewhere in section 2657.

which is the enforcement but it speaks out to the regulations non-criminal disposition um and warning and just speaks to the city in general so anybody could really do the enforcement so as long as the administration is prepared to identify who's going to be responsible for that enforcement I think it makes sense but what you were suggesting previously about the health department

I'm not sure who I'm not sure if they're staffed but you could fix that problem okay it's the will of the committee would it be emotional doctor first meeting motion are we making any amendments or submitting it as is sorry it costs a little bit on um section 2654 with what was handed to us at citizens input they're not actually saying change it to four meals they're saying you could just um

simply propose the language a bag with interval handles made of polyethylene so that takes out the am I saying that correctly takes out the number altogether is that how you interpreted it I didn't speak to him I just from what was given it to us so would that be um I mean with that change we made 26 by 4.

yeah 26 54 definitions you would just do it under the thin film The First One right so right here so you would just bag with Andrew interval handles made of polyethylene yep as opposed to none biodegradable plastic plastic other than polyethylene I don't know

I don't know this for a fact but what I think um that would ban would be you know not that we have in Fall River I don't think but like if you had the large plastic bag for Pier One Import or something like that that probably also going to be banned under the definition of made of polyethylene probably allowable if it stays at 0.3 or 0.4 so it would so my mom I just said I'm

not 100 of my room that's what I think the polyethylene bag would be any thicknesses the suggestion here so that would that would change that that would get rid of the thickness issue correct other bags as well because I think with Corporation College okay it's so it's going to be the game says once it was you know the three Mills a lot of grocery stores upped it to four yeah um so the suggestion here probably gets

rid of all plastic bags I just want to make sure this body understands my understanding and it could be wrong is things like the Pier One giant plastic bags would probably also be banned for retail purposes as opposed to just the grocery stores okay that would be my management to change the definition you make that informal motion yes so a motion was made to change the condition a thin film plastic bags with

integral handles to strike out that definition and put in a bag with integral handles made of polyethylene the amendment was made second by Council Washington discussion Council proposal I'm just I'm just going to say I'm going to vote no on this simply because again I want to like to do a little more research on exactly what these terms are to go back to other communities and what they're doing I

don't it's not that I don't support it in in the basis of I just wanted to be have the opportunity to do some more information seeking on it so thank you thank you any further discussion I would say that I'm going to agree with Council reposo even though I think the change should be made I think some communities have a catch-all and and do have some type of exemption as to or allowance for

some of those types of bags uh if we were going to make that adjustment I would I would just want to see that additional language in there I just don't have that in front of me so on the motion Madam clerk what do you call the rule and I'm sorry that's a motion too so I'm fine with tabling it if we want to just check on that as long as it's back on the next agenda

is that what we're saying you want more information on essentially that what that definition would be that and then also to see what other what are the surrounding communities in communities similar to us who have this in place how that how it's different from not only what we're proposing but also what the state is currently looking at all right and are you saying constipating that you want to

see what that catch-all is well to support it if not I would support I would support the ordinance as it is and if we want to come back and make some amendments to the ordinance later on then we can do that I just I have to reset all right from my standpoint we've we've been at this since 2021. we've we've got something I I thought we were comfortable with back

in 2021 that the only thing that was holding this up was just the enforcement aspect of it right so we've heard from Corporation Council that we don't necessarily need to identify the department that we're okay with that I would suggest if we do want to add somebody that would be the health department but I'm okay with leaving it as is all right I'll remove my Amendment so the moment was withdrawn if it I just

want to stay for the record I think one of the big delays here actually was covid because at the time nobody knew exactly how the transmission worked and the idea of having a single use plastic bag all of a sudden was a great idea so don't blame yourselves too much I think covet had a very large role in the delay of this I blame everybody else but it was 21 that it came back to us

21. yeah there were still I'm still I think a lot of people were not working in 2021 everybody's afraid to touch any surface whatsoever okay all right so is there a motion to approve as is through first reading was made by Council Washington is there a second second by Council of Liberty all those in favor aye opposed Council proposal opposed motion carries seeing nothing else before us their

motion to adjourn second motion Journal was made by Council Liberties seconded by Council proposal all those in favor on committee and ordinance and legislation is now thank you