8.26.2025 City Council - Ordinances and Legislation

marble coming.

Hey, hey hey.

Committee on ordinances and legislation come to order. The clerk could call the role.

Council here here. Um, pursuant to the open meeting law, any mer person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Um, for the record, um, council hot calls.

He is unable to attend tonight and councelor Kadim is going to be a few minutes late but he said please stop without me so we will do that. Item number one citizen input. No citizen input. Item number two are the minutes of the August 12th meeting.

Motion to approve.

There's a motion to approve.

Second.

Second.

Item number three prop.

Yeah. All in favor? I I proposed ordinances number three, traffic handicap parking uh foot street west 467 ft south of Globe Street, Healey Street North, 89 ft east of Quarry Street. Kellogg Street west 392 ft north of Hamlet Street. Pox Street south 157 ft east of Forest Street.

There is a motion for emergency preamble. Motion for emergency preamble. So can call the roll.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Motion to pass through all readings.

Motion to pass through all readings.

Second.

All in favor?

I.

Thanks. Uh item number four, proposed ordinance. This is miscellaneous traffic and this is a strikeout. Section one, strike out a one-way street Naraganset Street west from Foster Street for the distance of 4 and 89 ft.

And if anybody has any questions, the director of traffic is here as always, Stephanie MacArthur.

And you want to come down, Stephanie? Mrs.

MacArthur, I should say.

And section two is Niagara Street. This is an insert west from Foster Street to Plymouth Avenue. Mrs. MacAT, was this um near the real estate office there. They had that one piece that was a oneway and people complained about it.

Correct. So, it was a two-way. So, now the residents are requesting to for it to be reverted back to a one-way back to a oneway to Plymouth Avenue. Okay.

And item section three is handicap parking. These are removals. Bond street north 480 448 ft west of County Street.

Bait Street West 22t south of Orswwell Street. Bay Street East 113 ft north of Swift Street and East Main Street East 173t north of Dwelli Street. Section four is to insert a new section as followed. Uh three-hour parking, no parking a vehicle for longer than 3 hours upon the following streets or pots.

Therefore, with specific hours, and that's Brighton Avenue North, 89 ft east of Ryan Street.

Motion to pass through first reading.

Motion to pass through first reading.

Second.

Second. All in favor discussion.

You have a question? Yes.

Councelor Reposa.

So for section four, um what can you clarify what's changing exactly on that?

Is it just distance or?

No. So we don't have three-hour parking in ordinance currently. Is that the one you're talking about? Section four.

Section.

We don't have three-hour parking currently. Um so we're adding that three-hour parking option for any businesses.

Okay. So what do we have currently as far as limit of parking? Is it 15 minutes? We have 15 minutes, half an hour, one hour, and two hours.

Okay. One hour and two hours. So, we're adding a third. And why is there a particular reason for the business had requested it? It's a tattoo parlor. Um, so he stated when his customers are there, um, they're definitely there for more than an hour to two hours.

Not a half hour job, that's for sure.

Okay.

Don't know. Never had a tattoo, but I'm assuming it would take a while.

All right. That's I'll yield.

You yield? I do.

Is there a motion?

It was.

Passed the first reading. There was a second. All in favor?

I I thank you.

Um item number five, proposed ordinance, the creation of a new position of supervisor of crossing guards and adjustments to the current salary of crossing Gods.

Mr. Dion, welcome.

Yep. And this is Stephanie Stephanie Macatha from traffic.

Yep. director of traffic and parking and parking and Mr. Dion interim city administrator and community development director.

Community development director. Welcome.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, I'll go ahead and start off. Um, so this request is actually there's two parts of the request. So, I don't know where you want me to start to. I'm going to start with the the floor is yours, Miss Maca.

All right. So, we'll start with the increase for the wage increase for the cross and guards. Um, so currently we have 22 schools that we have crossing guards at. Um, a total of 45 locations.

Um, what's happening is I I'm having a lot of issues with retaining employees uh for this position. Um, with it being only two hours a day, um, an hour in the morning, an hour in the afternoon.

Although I do have some locations that do require more than just the two hours, but they're mainly two hours. Um, I I'm struggling to retain employees at $18 an hour, two hours a day. Um, you know, the weather conditions, the what they're dealing with with traffic and parking and parents and it's really tough to keep employees.

So, so that's that's the main part of the request for the increase in their salary.

What is the pay now?

$18 an hour.

And what do you want to raise it to? $20 an hour.

Okay.

And you know the crossing guards, they are temporary employees, seasonal employees. Um they're they're just they're not any benefits are allowed for the crossing guards. Um so it's just during the school year that they are employed for the city.

Okay. And the second part of this was the supervisor.

Correct. Um so I was with it being so many employees and by myself as a director overseeing 57 employees because the 47 for crossing guards and then the 10 within my office. So overseeing 57 individuals by myself I don't have any supervisors or foremans in order to delegate this work. So to monitor these employees has been very difficult. Um I brought it to the administration that you know I was struggling to monitor

them as far as payroll purposes to ensure that these individuals are actually showing up. Um so they were initially oversaw by the police department. Um we had taken it over in 2019 school year 2019. Um so when it was overseen by the police department it was much easier. You know they had officers out on the road, the SRO's were out at the school. So they were able to see if these individuals

were actually showing up to their locations. Um, so I'm asking for an additional employee to be able to help me with that. Um, to be able to monitor, make sure these crossing guards are showing up, make sure that if a crossing guard is out, um, that I do have that coverage. Uh, this employee would also, um, mimic what we have currently for the crossing guard position. Um, part-time

seasonal employee just during the school year.

And and what would the rate of pay be for that individual versus you having another individual in your office to be designated to monitor crossing guides and to do other stuff because your office has people that have been there a while have a lot of vacation time.

Correct. If two So unfortunately that becomes a union issue. That becomes a union issue to to be able to to send them out and monitor to see if these crossing guards are actually at their location.

they can go back to the union and say that's not part of their job.

Okay.

So that that's Well, thank you for clarifying that.

Absolutely. Of course.

I just wanted to look at which way was more cost effective.

Mr. Dion, no. The administration's in favor of uh of increasing the rate and also adding the uh supervisor. Um I just want to uh reiterate what um Miss Macatha said, that supervisor of uh school crossing guards would be also working as a crossing guard. Correct. um would be filling in if there's a need to be filling in. Uh right now, um Miss MacArthur, it's it's very difficult uh for her to uh to realize which people

are showing up. Um most of the uh are elderly um that are that are doing uh the crossing gods. Um there's sickness, there's bad weather. Um you know, the problem is is people aren't showing up.

We have some uh uh uh what are you going to hire four now as we were speaking? So uh and and actuallyies actually today we were we were informed that a person was going to be out because of uh a health a health related issue. So it's just become uh very very cumbersome. Um something that uh you know the police department doesn't want to do anymore.

Uh they haven't done it in a long in a while right a couple years. So uh you know we're behind it 100%. Um it's really important uh I think to continue providing a good uh public safety for the children you know to go to school.

Um uh and and you know those crossing guards also work with our PCOS to let us know you know what's happening at each school are people parking incorrectly.

Um we're working on getting the PCOS to those locations so um that we can have a good uh showing out there um you know to let people know that they're being protected. So, we're in favor of it.

Thank you, Councelor Kadine.

Thank you. I apologize if you answered the questions already. I came in a little late.

No problem.

Um, so I I fully support the increase. I I think um and I don't know if you said this, but I'm assuming you probably looked at other communities in terms of crossing guards. I So I I believe there are other communities, especially the size of Far River, that are probably in the 20s. Um, so I from that standpoint, I'm I'm comfortable with it. Just do you know what the cost associated

with the, you know, the increase? So, from going from $15 to $20. And then the second part of the question is, do you have it budgeted or would you be looking to come down for another appropriation?

Go forward.

Yep. So, for just the increase, um, it's $32,400.

Yep.

For just the increase. And then for the additional position, it's $15,840.

So, it would be a total difference of $48,240.

Okay. We budgeted for 2916.

So with the new rate in the position, we would it would be 339840.

So you would need you would need another appropriation or do you think you can is there money in the the department to We probably would have to come down for another appropriation.

And then the the other question I think is more of a discussion. Um I I don't disagree with the you know the supervisor position especially with you know the day-to-day activity that you have to deal with. I guess my my question to the administration would be, have we had any conversation with the mayor and the school department about potentially moving this over to the schools? Because from from my

standpoint, they've got a security department, right? And I think it would align a lot better over at the schools where one, if we are having a difficult time filling these positions, number one, people coming in or coming to work, you know, they have potentially the ability then to send out their security staff to to be able to go do some crossing.

Yeah. I'll I'll turn it over to to Miss MacArthur because like I said I I wasn't in those meetings. I wasn't city ad uh interim administrator at that time. So there were meetings that were had. Um so with with this added change um there is going to be some collaboration with the school department as well. Um we are waiting for some union clarification as far as having the Paris go and cover. Um if indeed

I had to walk off the stage.

I'm sorry. So you got collaboration?

Yes. with the um I'm sorry, with the school department because that was my initial request was hey listen is there any way that the school department can take this over. That was my initial request. Um so this would be in collaboration with the school department. So this supervisor of payroll would technically be out of the school department. They'll be working out of Rock Street.

So but would they I guess it's one thing but you still be correct seeing I guess what I'm trying to do is completely removing it from the city side and moving it and transitioning.

School department doesn't want it.

Nobody wants it except me, I guess.

Okay.

School department doesn't want it and and rightfully so. I I think there's a lot of work that goes that's involved for, you know, logistics and things of that nature.

Working together, like you said, is so important to make sure that this is handed correctly.

So, I listen, I I'll support this as presented by the administration, but I guess I would I would urge the administration to continue to to kick the tires on potentially trying to get that back over to the to the school department. To me, it just from and I know it's additional work, but it it just it seems to align more on the school size than it does on the on the city.

I agree with you and uh I'm listening.

So, it it will uh I'll definitely bring that up and we'll talk about it. But again, this year it wasn't they didn't have any appetite to take control of it.

But we will I'll definitely maybe we can do it for Christmas. Just leave it on their uh front porch wrapped in a ribbon. Yeah.

All right. With that with that, I yield.

Are there any did anybody else have any questions?

Council repos.

So on the on the recruitment and hiring section of the job description, are they going to conduct interviews and then make recommendations to you on hiring?

Correct. So I I'll be present at the interviews as well. Oh, okay. So you're still there. So you're not handing that part off completely to them?

No, I'll I'll still be involved in that part of it.

Okay. And and just to be clear, it's just one supervisor of all of the 45.

Correct.

Okay.

All right. That's all you I yield.

Miss MacArthur, are there any substitutes that you have so that if somebody's not coming in you have other people so the supervisor will and my parking control officers as well so like I said we you know we'll be in collaboration you know they'll let me know like right I already have two crossing guards who actually called out for school for tomorrow already um so I already have two locations that I need covered for

tomorrow morning and tomorrow afternoon so if anybody that's listening wants to apply yes for crossing God position they would contact your office so they contact the traffic division and and maybe there are people who would do it just when somebody is out ill that they would be willing to fill in.

Um maybe you have a lot of parents and guardians as well who actually apply since they figured they're going to be there anyway for drop off and pickup. Um so Ken Pico has been great with the schools putting it out there on parent square for parents and guardians who are interested since they're going to be there anyway.

So all right.

Is there a desire to have this as a Oh, I'm sorry. Councelor Bose, you have another question.

Just one question. Out of curiosity, how are how are the placement of the school crossing guards determined? Like I know in some intersections there's two, others there's one. What's the rationale? I just I guess I'm more curious.

So, it's at the request of the school department essentially.

Okay.

Um yeah, I do I do have some I have some schools I have four crossing guards, some I only have one.

And and then you would talk about like like I think about because I travel down Eastern Avenue all the time. So there's always I believe two correct at the at that intersection when Tal Eastern County.

Yeah. Thank you. And I've always county street. But when Talbot's a pretty distance away where other schools have one, it's like really right there.

So I guess they they tell you where they want to go.

Especially that type of intersection avenue at county with it being such a busy intersection. Um and it was also requested at the school department's request. That's also a bus stop for an elementary school. Um right right up the street.

Yep. So that's why they're placed there.

And for Talbot.

And is it just um is it just the public schools? The charter schools get involved in crossing guards as well.

I Yeah, we do cover the two charter schools. Okay. And we do cover a few of the private schools as well.

So Atlantis and then Argusy's both locations, right?

It's Argusy's both locations. And I don't have anybody at Atlantis right now.

It's out in Jefferson Street. And where's the other place you said?

The private schools. We have a few of the private schools.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, good to know.

You don't have any?

No.

I hesitated on that statement if anybody noticed.

You will tomorrow.

Good to know. Good to know. Thanks for letting me know about that. Um, he might find a parent for you or me depending what it is. Um, okay.

So, again, those are all driven by the schools say, "Hey, this is what we think we need." Who makes the final decision?

You do as far as the placement.

Y Okay, cool. Good to know. I'll be calling you tomorrow. I yield. Thank you.

You know where to find me.

Um there was uh is there a desire to have this as an emergency preamble because school is starting?

So made emergency preamble. Is there a second?

Second.

Roll call. Madame clerk.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes. Motion to pass through all rings.

Second.

All in favor?

I.

Thank you, Miss Macatha.

Thank you. Have a great night.

Item number six on the agenda is a proposed ordinance to establish a library program revolving fund. And I believe Mr. Maris is here.

If you could just state your name for the public.

Hi, I'm Felicia Desirez, library director.

Felicia, would you like to explain the rationale for this?

Yes. So, um, we used to collect the funds for passport fees. They're $35 each to apply for a passport. And in the past, our library friends organization was collecting uh the fees and then we would kind of go to the friends and then ask them if we could have some of those funds back for programming. Uh however, it is our staff that is actually doing the passport applications. So we feel it

might make a little bit more sense just so that uh we can kind of have it come right back to us so that we can be able to decide which programs we get to choose uh that kind of thing because our staff does a lot of work kind of um trying to plan the year and making sure we're doing what the community needs for programming. Uh so I think it would make

it more streamlined of a process. Was there a problem too with getting the money after from the friends and legally that that wasn't as clear-cut as getting it yourself?

Yeah. So, I think that uh well, we definitely had to ask for it back, right? But um I think that having our staff offer a service and then having those funds go outside of the department just kind of seemed not not great in practice.

Thank you. I've been there for my passports and they were exceptional.

Yeah. Very good.

Um, Mr. Dion, did you want to add something before the council last question?

I just think it I just think it's the right thing to do to put it with the with the uh staff that's actually doing the work for, you know, why should we have to go back and ask for the money from another organization and have it go to the other organization.

Um, this is from what I've been told is very easy to to to do. They're anticipating about $12,000 $12,000 worth of revenue. So, I was told that the uh program uh revolving fund was going to be made for $12,000 and if they increase it above that that we would come back to you and tell you, you know, and ask permission to go above that $12,000.

12,000. Okay. Uh councelor Kadim then council.

Thank you. So, just along those lines, so the 12,000 we anticipate 12,000 annually. Is that what Yes, that's based on in past years what the friends have collected from our application fees.

So the um just so I understand so the revolving what I mean once we establish revolving fund doesn't matter how much goes in there. So are you looking to we have to set a limit that you can spend.

Yeah I was saying 12,000 was the limit and then if we went over that limit we would come back to you.

Okay. So and and I think every year it requires you to come back just to set the limit but um so I guess I once everybody has a discussion I' I'd support the revolving fund and then well I'll make the motion now. We can still have discussion.

I'll make a motion to recommend uh the revolving fund be passed through first reading. Uh but we established the spending limit at $12,000. Second and then I yield for discussion.

Okay. Council reposala.

So $35 an application. You say you're anticipating 12,000 revenue. What do you get per application?

No, it's more than that.

Um do you mean So I'm I'm just trying. So the revenue anticipated is $12,000 from doing passport application fees. Each passport is $35.

So each or no? Or is it 35 is what you get?

So it's $35 per passport application that you get back.

Um so we spend it's about $10 per envelope that we're actually shipping out. However, if there's a multiple um family household, we only pay that $10 once.

And so the profits can change uh depending on how many members are in the family going on vacation. Okay. Um, but the 12,000 was just an estimate based on the pass what we've received uh over an average of months. So, it could change.

It could fluctuate either up or down annually.

Do you have a sense of how many passports you did last year?

I did, but I just I just 342 if you divide the 30.

I mean, that's how I Yeah, I guess I did it quickly. I was just Thanks, Council. Um, I guess I'm just trying to figure out like how did you come to the 12,000? If you were to break down that number a little bit more. If you don't have it now, you can get it to me after. It's fine.

Yeah. Um, it it really was it was just dividing um the amount of applications and then also uh the amount of funds that we actually passed on to the friends uh because initially we were taking those funds and then handing them to the friends. So we it did come through us.

Um yeah, we'll get you that council if you don't mind. I mean I'll echo council. support it. So, I'm I'm not concerned, but that information will be helpful if you don't. Yeah, I'll yield.

Because when when I went um we had two passports that needed to be renewed and then I had seven passports that were new and they were like I think $185 or $160 per passport. Um but then you get a certain percentage of that from the passport company for processing it.

Yeah. So, what we're getting is the $35.

That's our fee and then the check that is included that actually goes goes right there.

Yeah. Mhm.

That's what I thought. That's what we had.

Council Kadim, uh, sorry, just one other question. So, you're looking to spend, uh, I guess use the money for all types of programming.

So, you're not limiting it to any like purchasing of books or so, it's just open up to it wouldn't be books actually because I have a requirement through my state aid for a specific amount of books. So, we should have enough there. It's programming that we don't actually have a requirement on and that's our that's what everyone loves us for. So, um, so that's what we were using those

funds for when they were going to the friends. We would ask it for it back, uh, for specific programming, but sometimes it would be a no and we really thought, uh, we should offer something and and so yeah, we just want to be able to offer it for different kinds of programming throughout the year, adult, children's, um, all ages.

Okay. And and potentially could be books if books are needed, right? I guess for it wasn't the intention. Um I guess I guess what I would I would ask um probably if you want the most flexibility I would I would say you know either um books and programming just to give you that flexibility just so because if if you do if you only do programming then if you need to use it

then you can't use that funding source for it. But I guess that's what I'm saying.

Yeah. once we establish.

I think that's really good to to to to be uh I don't see a problem with that if we need to use it for some books.

So I I'd amend the motion uh so that the purpose would be for uh library programming and for books.

I think the only concern with that will be my state aid because I won't be able to allocate that. So I need to meet a certain requirement for you can allocate it.

No, no. I guess what I'm saying it would be above and beyond what your minimum uh requirement would be. So, so if you have, and I don't know what your minimum state requirement is, but let's just say it's $200,000 and you need additional books and you got um I don't know $12,000 worth of books that you're short, you can pull in from this as opposed to So, I'm not I'm not saying

taking it away from the operating budget. It just gives you the flexibility to be able Okay.

It's not negative at all.

It's it's an additional funding.

Sorry, I'm in the middle of my state aid reporting right now.

He's right. gives you a lot of flexibility to uh to move the money the way you want and they do a lot of great programming there.

Yeah.

My grandson volunteers when they do things for kids. Uh council propos just a point of clarification. Sure.

Do we want to limit it to just books or do we want to define it as resources because books would physically be a physical book versus Yeah. Whatever. I was I was struggling for you know I can't be articulate right now. I was I was struggling. It was a long day. So I was trying to I was trying to find the best wording to give her the most flexibility. And and again

I you know part of it is so when you when you create a ving fund for example for the police department it's for police cruises it can only be spent on police cruisers right so I just don't want to limit it to programming if in the future there's other needs that she needs to uh subsidize the programming or um assets that she needs for or resources I guess yeah uh that she needs in the library outside

of the operating budget. She has that ability.

Books would fall on the resources. Well, I I think when I when I think resource library resources, not just stuck to books, it could be subscriptions, it could be um computers, online digital access, things like that. So maybe just again to give you more flexibility and getting some newer things for the community. I think that would give you a little more ability, but and that's a lot of what they do with

the programming, correct? Is to get new things on the computer that the kids or adults will use. um like the ancestry things that you have down there and all of the other programming that he has. Do you are you satisfied?

Yeah. Why don't we do both books and resources?

Are you satisfied with just programming or would you like to add that it'll be used for programming books and other resources?

The floor, but that was just my point of No, I was answering your question.

No, it you had the floor.

You do. You kneel. Oh, I think I thought you I think library resources would encapsulate all of those. Okay. So, do you want to make the motion?

Yeah. One followup question though if I could.

Sure.

Um, did he yield?

Yeah, he did. Okay.

Um, under programming, does that include the bookmobile?

It can.

It can. Yeah, we we're working with Emily to uh to get her out and and doing more programming.

Okay.

Uh Yeah.

But the bookmobile itself is considered library programming.

It is not. That's actually considered an outlet. So, it's a it's a branch. It's It's almost treated as if it's a branch of our library.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

All right. Gotcha. All right. Any else?

Does the bookmobile go to private schools as well?

Um, so it's it's been visiting some charter schools uh this last year. We are we're kind of we're pivoting a little bit. We're still making visits to the schools, but um after my state aid reporting, it's actually come to our attention that there needs to be a high a high volume of those hours need to be publicly accessible. And so when you're kind of going to the schools, that's not

necessarily publicly accessible. Uh and so those hours can't count for us in that way. So, uh it's a benefit and we're still going to be doing it.

However, you might have seen her out at more city events, farmers markets, different um housing housing areas. So, we're trying to get her schedule to open up a little bit more for those things.

And will that schedule then be online?

It should be. Yep. It should be included in our schedule, which I think that they have it embedded on the city website schedule as well.

Any other questions? So, the motion on the floor is amend the emotion so that uh strike books and then add library resources.

So it' be programming and library resources.

Library resources just library and program and programming and are just for clarification. Are we inserting that in both sections that read as program?

Yes.

So that's the motion. Is there a second?

Second.

All in favor? I it's a motion to amend and then first and then we're all set.

Motion to for first reading as amended.

Second. Sorry.

Motion first reading as amended which is programming and library research resources.

Resources.

So second.

There was a motion and a second. All in favor? I Okay, thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Maris. Doing a great job.

Thanks.

Is there a motion?

You have a question?

No, I have a motion.

Oh, good.

To request to lift the VSO position from the table.

Is there a second?

Second. Is that on the table?

All in favor?

I.

Chair opposed.

Um, she needs to recess.

Motion to recess.

Second.

Okay. Motion to recess.

Second.

All in favor?

I

Yep. Um item has been lifted from the table and it's the contract for the veteran service officer. We're still in recess.

Um Oh, we have Do you have that?

Oh, I thought you Okay, we're back from recess after the clerk went and received what was lifted from the table, which is the VSO uh consideration for contract.

Right now, as it reads, the VSO's position um it was effective on 7 July 1st of 2022, not to exceed $72,23654.

And now they want to insert um to have it as a contract position. Mr. Dion,

how you doing?

This chair is going to break.

Um, one of the things that, um, it's going to become news to you guys probably is in the conversations that I've had with the mayor, um, we'd like to change this around a little bit and not to have a contract, but to leave it in ordinance and to be not to exceed.

Okay.

We've listened to the city council on numerous occasions. I know councelor Dion is not here this evening, but she's had a problem with contracts before, and I'm of the opinion, and the mayor's of the opinion that we'd like to make this a not to exceed to uh um uh you know, there were raises that were given in the past. Um and uh you know, we feel that the best way to go forward is to leave

this an ordinance and make it not to exceed.

Thank you. Just for the record, I chair this committee and I try diligently as this whole committee has worked um for the past two years almost at having committee meetings frequently so that we don't hold things. This came to us in September of 2022. My only recommendation or that I wanted before I brought it to committee was I did the interviews for the VSO position. I actually voted for our VSO and talked to

members of the interview committee on how I felt he would be an asset to the city. Um, with that being said, one of the one of the things that we spoke about during the interview with all candidates was that our VSO needed to be able to take claims. Um, if somebody has 10% disability, 30%, but that our VSO can do it. Our veterans shouldn't be going to Foxboro to get it done or to

Pine Street to get it done. Pine Street was doing it well. One of the individuals that did it there um passed away, too. But I think our VSO should have that under their belt. And I've waited and I had talked to you about do we have that? I talked to the VSO himself about getting that. I just received that he completed an online course saying that he um was certified.

I don't know that came in a August 25th of this year and we are still in August.

So I don't want people to think I held this up somehow because I didn't. That's what I wanted before I brought it to the committee. that certificate, you can go online for $185, take a test and receive it. I'm not aware of that really giving you full force to be able to take claims. I'm not sure. I was looking into that to come prepared to this meeting. But either way, there is a

certificate. Um but I agree that the last budget that we had there were many positions contracted that big raises were given and we couldn't change it after and I think it should be also a not to exceeds on the ordinance. Who had their hand up first? You did councelor Kadeim.

Thank you. Uh so I just want to clarify I think you said September of 22 was actually September of 24.

24 you said 22.

Oh it was a year.

Yeah. hasn't been a year yet, but almost not not not as long as No, I don't want people to think it was sitting there for two years.

No, it hasn't been. Sorry. Thank you for the clarification.

Um, so I I guess and and you and I have had a conversation with regard to this and and I can appreciate the comments that you had just made, but as one just as one counselor, I think those comments are more for the administration. It's more operational. I think what's before us is is really just an ordinance request to make the position or was a request to take the position from

ordinance that would have a not to exceed and make it a salary contract position. So I I think that was the conversation that needed to be had. Now whether or not you know and I'm not saying what you're saying is accurate or inaccurate, but if if those concerns are legitimate, those are conversations I think the administration needs to take up and it's not necessarily pertaining

to the ordinance. Um, I know we've often say when we start looking at these contract positions or not to exceed positions, we should be looking at the position itself, not the individual inside um or or the person holding that position.

You know, once once you start getting into contract discussions, that's for you folks to figure out, you know, the person and the personalities and and um professional development and everything that's been accomplished or not accomplished based on expectations that have been laid out. So, uh, with that, I I guess I don't necessarily, um, have an issue either way of it being a contract

position or the not to exceed position.

Um, I don't disagree that, you know, there is there has been concerns with regard to the contract positions and having significant increases and not really having that dialogue back and forth. But I do think part of the problem has been the um I guess the uh philosophy of or the approach on how you're going to handle individuals coming into positions at a contract positions especially if they've never

held the position before. Right? So I think what has happened is is that we again uh similar to what I just talked about we're looking at the individual and not valuing the position itself. So from my standpoint, if we're looking at, you know, in this instance, a veterans uh agent, then we need to identify what is that value to us, right? And look at it from other communities. So if the

value is $80,000 and that's what we say, it should it shouldn't matter who's taken the position, whether somebody has zero experience or 20 years experience, that that position should be valued at 80,000. Right? So that's just my take.

What we've seen in the past is if you have no experience, even though we value the position at 80,000, the person's had no experience, so we put them at 60,000 and then, you know, you have a the following year you're given a $20,000 increase and and things like that. And so the fluctuation doesn't look good when we're coming from it from a financial standpoint and year-over-year, right? Especially with the percentage

increases. Uh my take is let's value the positions. Let's identify what the positions are valued because regardless if somebody's coming in with zero experience or 10 years experience, there is still responsibilities associated with the position that should be part of that evaluation criteria. Right? So to say somebody um has zero experience and is not in the position brand new doesn't

negate the fact that they still have to do the same exact work that somebody coming in with 20 years experience.

Right? So the the position calls for uh responsibility and requirements uh associated with it. So the the only thing I would be looking for uh is just again something we've talked about for a number of years is just being competitive, right? Trying to finally get our positions that we have within uh municipal government in Fall River competitive with other communities. And I and I recognize we'll never get be as

competitive with towns. towns tend to pay more than uh larger cities, but I I would like to see us be competitive with the New Beffords, the Tatons, the Brockton's, uh you know, we we won't be able to be competitive with Foxboro and and that's I know we've lost some folks to uh communities like that, but if we can be at least competitive to the larger communities, that's what I that's what I would

personally like to see. So, I'm not sure if you were prepared tonight for it, but I I really wasn't prepared. I mean, I did some work um last week. Um New Bedford is at 120,553.

Um Worcester is at 96,229.

Uh Brockton is at 103 555. I tried to get Lowel in Springfield, but I just couldn't and I got I got I just real busy at the time.

Have Have you looked at um job responsibilities, too? Are they are they similar? because I I know they could they vary sometimes.

It varies. They're they're basically similar, but they do varies. Um uh I I I think the best closest is Brockton and Bedin. Um it looked the same to me, but like I said, it was a fast quick review.

I mean, I didn't have really a chance to um to uh uh prepare as much as I would like to. I mean, um, I I I did that real quick just to look at comparisons and stuff like that. Um, uh, you know, to get back to the other thing of not to exceed, I I know it was put in front of everybody as a contract and stuff like that. And I know my time as probably in

uh, city administrator is is is not a long time. Um, all I know is under my under my toutelage, I'm listening. I'm hearing everything that's going on. I'm listening to the city council. I'm listening to you people and and um want to do it right, you know, I want to do it correctly and um I I I think I had this conversation a while back. I think it should be not to exceed. That's my

opinion and I brought it to the mayor's and the mayor agreed with me and he said, you know, we should look at that.

It should be not to exceed. So So if we do the not to exceed the other benefits that would be associated with the contract, right? So time off, sick leave, um other benefits that are typically associated in a contract that you would also find in the collective bargain and agreement for the individuals that are in the not to exceed. What do we follow? Is there a personnel bylaw that um or ordinance

that states exactly like they get three weeks or do you follow in the in in the contracts that I've seen? They all differ. It's all different, right? The individual contracts, right?

A standard a standard contract standard.

This is what you would get. this is what you know I I've seen all kinds of different three weeks here, four weeks here. So I don't know how I could I don't know if I can answer that.

So I I guess what I would ask is could you work with HR to define whether whether we're pulling from collective bargaining agreements if we're going to if we're going to mirror what the collective bargaining agreements say or and again I know individual contracts are that's that's the benefit of having an individual contract. you get to negotiate. But I think we, you know, we should have

similar benefits outlined for those positions that are not to exceed so that we know you get three weeks at 5 years, you get five weeks at 10 years, you know, vacation time.

I would say it follows I would say it would follow the bargaining agreement because I am not I'm as a community development director, I'm an employee at will and everybody in my office and my we go by the collective bargaining agreement. So what I would like to see in in in in that would be, you know, you'd follow the two and a half, two and a half, 2%, whatever they would get over

the three years and go from that.

Yeah, that's what I I think um is the right way to do it because I I think it's important for the employees as well to be able to point to a document to say, okay, I'm at a not to exceed here are the benefits that I have. I get, you know, four personal days. I get five weeks of vacation. I get, you know, 15 sick days. Is it upfront? Is it acred? Is it

I would say it's going to follow the the ask me um uh uh contract negotiations that we have.

And then how how long do you think you would need to come to a recommendation on the not to exceed?

Um I just looked at it real quickly. Um I was looking in the 90 to 95,000 range I thought instead of coming back to you guys consistently. I mean, I know I know the the um the agreement right now is 72. Um we would we would uh not go to that 95. Um uh the VSO officer right now is currently making 70 which is I think it's thoroughly, you know, I think it's

underpaid at the at the moment. Um but I would like to see something where we would say not to exceed 90 95,000 around that amount.

So can I just ask the clerk 95?

I'm I'm in agreement with that. I would just ask the clerk, can we amend it or do we need to reject it and have the administration submit something back or do you need more time?

No, but that was a good question that came up the other day with that question and I was told we could amend it. I I I don't we could amend it cuz that's what I was told because I said the same thing. I said, you know, it's kind of bad we're changing this in the middle of it and you already have an order that's coming down with all this stuff of contracts. They said it could

be amended. I don't Okay. So, I'd make a motion to amend the uh I said, well, I guess um not to exceed not go with the the contract language and leave the not to exceed and increase the not to exceed uh amount to $95,000.

So, would that a second?

Point of clarification.

Sure.

So, do we strike section two and then amend section one procedurally?

I guess that's what I was looking for.

Okay. I was trying.

Yeah.

Not articulate today. Sorry. No. So, I'll second council.

You'll second.

Yes.

Okay. There's a motion on the floor to increase the not to exceed um for the position of ESO to 95,000 not to exceed just to clarify.

So, to clarify, madam clerk, section two is going to be changed to read by inserting in section 50-301 which relates to salary schedules for executive officers department has non-un personnel. Um the text will remain the same until we get to where salary per contract that'll be a strikeout will be inserting not to uh exceed 95,000.

Correct.

Correct. And then the effect of the will be at the next council meetings have to be voted on.

Okay.

A second motion.

Second.

So there was a motion and a second. All in favor?

I.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Do I have to Motion to adjurnn.

Second.

All in favor?

I.

Ordinance meeting adjourned. Thank you.

Hey, hey hey.

pain.

Hey hey.