8.28.23 Special Charter Review Committee

welcome everybody this is Monday August 28th it's 5 p.m this is the special Charter review committee meeting and before we start we will have the vice chair Dan robillard read the open meeting law for someone to the open meeting or any person may make an audio or video recording of the public meeting will need to admit the meeting for 1 8 medium attendees are therefore advise with such recordings or Transmissions

are being made with a perceived or unperceived by those present not deemed acknowledged missile thank you Mr robillard and if you could join me in the Pledge of Allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it spans one nation under God individual with liberty and justice for all thank you everybody yes before we commend with the agenda

could I ask for a moment of silence for alternative and Community activist Richard Urban who recently passed away he was extremely involved in this commit Community involved with dozens of issues it was and also sort of a court involved with veterans issues I didn't did a a TV show for uh about 11 years on frcv the extra power with a dynamic guy and he's really going to be missed yes all right thank

you Mr robillard and if you could join me in a moment of silence for attorney Richard Urban

thank you everybody and at this time a we are open for public comment anybody public comment and seeing none uh the minutes of the July 24th meeting were posted online available here hard copy do I have a motion a second all in favor anybody opposed motion passes minutes of July 24th meeting I will direct everybody's attention number six is the discussion and review of the charter

Report Draft and that would be the very top of it is titled special Charter Review Committee Special Report and it was available online it's available hard copy here and if Mr Machado if you could give us maybe a brief summary of this particular document I know it's big to itself but just um very briefly describes what took place at each of the meetings and what major changes and I think it's set forth opportunity

to spent quite a bit of time in that frequently and any discussion and I'm sure yes of a document that hurting my shadow just reference and that's a separate document from the revised amended Java yes it's um according to the Old Charter this committee prepares a report and it's my understanding a report is forwarded to the council with the new document of course and this the Special

Report is outlining basically what occurred during our meetings the major changes and I was under the I thought the Special Report should have had a a recommendation because or do we do the recommendation later like I thought the recommendation was to send this send this and ask for you know those changes to be adopted by a home rule petition I'm I'm not sure what the process is now

uh these the report that Mr Machado just referenced I don't take any issue with the fact that that was available online though I didn't see it I can tell you that I worked high and low for the amended childhood that have not been posted anywhere to my knowledge it's not on the city website if someone can point to me where the amended challenge that's why I asked if we were talking about two separate

documents because I don't believe the amended Charter has been posted anywhere and I think part of the I think before we vote as a body on the amended Charter I think there ought to be a public hearing now that we have a final document uh you do public hearings on budgets we did public hearings at least one maybe we did a series over the course of of uh coming up with the original China but

before we took a final vote we did several more public hearings so that the public knows exactly what we're proposing to send to the council and they have a chance a comment on it so if there's a move to to vote on this tonight uh irrespective of what's in the vacuum I may support every single thing in this document but I will not vote to forward this document to the council without having another chance for the

public to comment on the final product I don't think it's right I don't think it's good government we have public hearings on uh City budgets and all kinds of other things something is important as the final product that this committee has is setting forth deserves a a public hearing this proceeding is not the end of the line for the amended childhood so what will take place is that so all this report

does is identify to the city council and the mayor what process is you know what we did to come up with what we came up with that then goes to the city council and again that is a public meeting and I would suggest that you're absolutely right and I think that the city council should conduct should advertise it as a public meeting

I cannot speak to what's available online I don't work for it I don't work for the clerk's office all the documents are forwarded directly to the Corporation Council secretary and she in turn hand delivers it to the clerk now I don't know why it would not be available online and that is why I stopped sending it to the clerk's office and sent it to Corporation Council because they would say to me I'm going

to get this we didn't get that you have to send it so I stopped I send it to Corporation Council and then uh Corporation Council sends me a confirmation that it was forwarded to the clerks now it's I I can follow up I will absolutely follow up and find out why the documents are not available online I can um and if I have any further information about that I'll certainly share it with

the committee but I did share with the committee uh in the in one a couple meetings ago that that was always the problem I was sending stuff and it wasn't getting posted so and I agree with you it's absolutely but I I I I I really share the same sentiment as Mr Machado um these are just the very first uh you know final draft that Mr Machado prepared my understanding is we all were

emailed these and that we were going to discuss them if we had changes whether it was grammatical substantive um add take away that we would vote on the documents they would go back to the clerk the clerk would either revise if the vote was that they needed revisions additions Corrections and then at the next meeting of the special Charter review that's when we look at our very final stuff

whether it's it's the report and the revised Charter and at that meeting and whether it's two meetings from now or the next one then those documents would be forwarded and I agree I think the city council because I agree with you Diane it's an important document but they should schedule the public hearings on them I am assuming that when they go to the council and make it on their agenda that uh we you

know members of this committee would be present to present to the council or answer questions but I I don't disagree but I think because it's important city council should schedule and undertake those public hearings but we we are the body that was appointed to sit here and deal with this process we are the body that came up with this document the city and once they've watched it on TV the city

council had no idea what's in this document we are the body that came up with this document we have the body in my opinion that should conduct at least one public hearing before this document goes to the city council and no one is exactly aware on what the process is I've had conversations with the city clerk's office all throughout the time this committee has been in jurisdiction working on this document I've had uh

conversations with Corporation Council Ramsey no one has a queer idea of exactly what the process is I'm going to interrupt that may be your opinion but there are people that have read this and do have an understanding so I I don't want you to include the whole world and not understand the process just maybe you but oh but can't you say I mean this meeting in itself has a section for public input

and we see and so even tonight's meeting I think it says right if anyone looked at the agenda discussion review of Charter Report Draft right we've had 12 public hearings so it's been posted people have the right to come and if they felt strongly they could come and say I see it or whatever but no one had I mean so I feel like if you've given that opportunity and the next opportunity

will be through the city but I think we put it out there we've opened it up for public comments there's been 12 public hearings today makes 13. public hearings tonight's agenda specifically said which was posted it right says discussion review of Charter Report Draft so that was their opportunity if they wanted to come and provide some input so if we vote on this tonight we would have no further meetings is

that correct Madam chair if anybody thinks that we need another meeting I'm this meeting is to review what what the clerk prepared I I couldn't say I couldn't say because I don't know if we vote on it and everybody likes it as it is and the and this committee votes for it to go to the council then it's going to the council so first of all with all the respect we had two quirks we had Mr

Machado we had Mr Campos we have members that are acting here tonight and yes we have a legal quorum to conduct business I don't question that so if we vote right now every uh the vote would certainly be wiggle we're well within our right to conduct business but we've had go back and watch tapes we've had motions during discussions on my new issues where votes were postponed because people were acting so and

furthermore up to a couple weeks ago there was talk that we might ask for a year extension so I don't see what all what all the big hurry is all of a sudden to rush this down to the council so can we review the special Charter Review Committee Special Report any discussions about the contents um the special Charter Review Committee Special Report number six the Special Report is

different from the amended China correct Madam chair yes yes thank you yes there's there's three documents on the agenda the report the charter draft and we separated the table of contents because I think our first meeting we gave leave to the clerks to create the table of contents because there wasn't one absolutely right so we have three documents kind of to to review and discuss tonight my my request for an

additional public hearing the meetings is on the amended Channel somebody wants to send Mr Machado is very well done report separately down to the council I have no problem with that because it's basically a summary of the meaning my issue is this amended job it's the first time we've all looked at it we should have it's not it is not the first time we've all looked at it Dan everybody had

it emailed and it was sent to the clerk so please I asked everybody when they got it okay in any event we understand uh I I understand your sentiment uh if we could discuss and review all right if we could discuss and review the report only number six on the agenda there's hard copies there was we have an email yes here's the resolution

I I like the um I like the report as it is but I um thought that the report like at the bottom maybe after summary should have recommendations because um we do have recommendations right so each one so each okay can I ask Washington a question this materials are going to be eventually forwarded to the city council yeah and we have just had a discussion that you missed about a public hearing and what we talked

about was during the now 13 meetings I think we've had four public four public commentators no five um so I would suggest that public comment at the city council would be more popular probably and so you know we're just not getting there's more people that attend the city council than this meeting I'm with you right so what I might suggest is that in this special report um I could add today's meeting

and if someone wants to make a motion that this committee encourages the city council to advertise a public hearing when this is considered or if it's on the agenda the public input would be the public hearing here's my question if there's a public hearing as versus public input at the council meeting is limited to three men right a public hearing is the input limited yes so we have our own public here and we could

accept our own parameters our city council had a public hearing right is that what you're saying right so public input out of council meeting is three minutes is what I'm asking yeah I think what we got to decide if it goes to counseling quickly if I remember it will be referred to a committee take it right I would think they would be referring I've done things the city when I first got out of the council many

years ago a private not a private group private citizen spent three years doing a historic district and one of the first meetings I ever went to there was a motion in the table and it was never heard from again so don't overlook I'm not saying they'll do it but it's a possibility yeah I would think this would be referred to like ordinance right and legislation right but I'm just saying don't count on

the council particularly before November or whatever the election day is right I don't know if they're going to be pleased with those drop initials of you know the things we've wrapped up right no no I I I hear you know just keep it there's no guarantee the council we'll move it along or when they will move along isn't it required though isn't there in the outline of the special Charter committee review process

isn't it outlined that they must then receive the and and pass it on to the mayor right oh so that they can well I think if they do it at a regular council meeting public input is your hearing okay I'm just like we've had here right and we didn't I mean we didn't really limit the time I don't even think did we have I don't even remember if we ever had a

vote we limited at the time but we never did we never told anybody right we expanded it yeah

followed by the city council is to consider a final public here and advertising of this committee and advertise it as a public hearing right have the city take out one of those big public hearing ads in The Herald news is that the kind you're talking about like that yeah I would think that's right but I think and

you know I think if we issue something with a summary saying here's what we're recommending maybe do it in two parts I mean the report is not a is not a document that needs you know a thumbs up or a thumbs down or a vote from the council it's the actual Charter itself so I don't know maybe I I don't know do it you're right maybe send the report first

present it to the council have a couple more meetings in a public hearing then go back to the council with the finished document I know it sounds like a lot I just thought going there with everything was yeah yeah you gotta identify yourself yes yes no come on you don't want anybody to know who you are no please Mr Venice

uh I've known Danny a long time not not too often I agree with his political views but we've made friends but I think I agree with him on the public hearing respect that this committee should hold the public hearing and agree with them to the extent that the city council calls public hearing on this that people will question the city council and they're going to say I don't

know who they did it not us it's not our report I would rather ask you people questions just tell you to write this how you didn't derive this and what happened to the discussion on this or what happened to discussion on that and that you know you people were the ones that worked on this and how did you come about this and I you didn't come about it you know what yeah being an outsider

just walking into it well how did you reach this decision they can't ask the city council that because they don't know how you're ripped well I'm assuming we'd have to be there I because Charter is this the old one or the new one which which document you're referring the one that we have been the draft okay

we'll file its Report with the city clerk by June 30th in the year following its appointment is that okay well we've had 13 we've had 12 public hearings yeah and that's what I'm saying and no and so that to me that we've done we were appointed yeah these are public hearings so I can I can I make us can I just make a January all right uh Mr Venice um any further comment you agree with Dan

just because a lot of people made in front of we got a table of contents we paid numbers but there's no page numbers on there I'm gonna fix that there you go page numbers on the uh draft you guys confuse me too with the new Charter would you call them yeah yeah you call it a draft Charter no we're just calling they're drafts we can't call them Charters that's what they are they're just drafts

and there's a report and there's the there's the draft of the report and there's the draft of the charter there's also a draft of the table of contents it's redundant because the table of contents was a new document the Old Charter didn't have a table of contents right so we I identify them as a draft because God forbid you say that they are the document and nothing worse than five years of coming through

so excited to find a page where something was right so the reason these are drafts is because it's the very first time at this public hearing that these documents have been discussed by this committee that's why they're drafts I think Danny was here again another term for it I don't know what the word was on the agenda what they are I don't understand may I respond yes I use the different term because Mr

Machado issued a two or three page report which I haven't seen yet I believe it's in this package I'll tell you I had some trouble getting emails come for Washington forwarded to me on Thursday the amended shot I printed it over the weekend and I've reviewed it I don't know when everybody else got it I never received by email the amended job that's all I'm talking about Mr Machado

when Mr Machado finishes the minutes the job to report and the draft Charter he emails everybody on the committee with those documents and if he changes it a little bit he sends everybody an updated one so the draft Special Report the draft table of contents and the draft Charter were emailed to this committee a couple times because I think you made a couple like a little minor things so

there's there were a few emails uh madam so the minimum of two public hearings and that language was from the old one right from the draft but we kept that language from the old one I think these are public meetings every meeting has to be public under the open meeting public hearings was something entirely different in any event though Mr Venice do you have any more comment you know what I'm saying

this group um thank you Mr Venice okay good job Miss Washington thank you madam chair I would have to say given the fact this is my just my personal opinion given the fact that the first Charter was in my opinion poorly done it's my my personal opinion and it just things left hour I think that it would only be fair because I do think the language or could be misconstruted that this is not a

public hearing it's a you know public input time I mean people can say well I didn't feel like I was able to go and so I do think we've come this far that it would be okay that if we had another meeting that we convened and we had a public hearing to see who comes because I do think that having that public hearing at the city council they're going to bring questions people are

going that the city council is not going to know the answer to so I would think that it would be a good thing for us to have promote it have the city promote it a public hearing and maybe three people come maybe 30 people come maybe nobody comes but we we put it out there that and we do our due diligence at that part and then we we go ahead and take a

vote thank you thank you I without a yield Madam chair any other I make a motion I don't know I have to I make a motion I make a motion that we hold another meeting to have public input public Forum on the charter I'm going to ask you to rephrase the motion okay because the language of the motion I want them language can would you like two public hearings

yeah I would like to have I would like to I would like to have another public hearing I believe that we a public hearing a public hearing so is your motion I make a motion to have a public hearing before we wrap this up and our next meeting we promote it and we have a public hearing well I just want to say this this is my two cents okay premature to

schedule a public hearing when I we can't even get through these drafts right now I think because we may find stuff as we finish this meeting that Mr Machado has to go back and change and bring those back to us so I I certainly don't disagree that nobody on this committee doesn't want the public to have it no I think the language is meeting or hearing and but I just think that

if we don't get through this we don't have anything I agree but I think that if we say let the city promote it let the citizens come that want to come and maybe they have ideas or they bring something to light that they address and then we could you know as we go to vote or look at this again we can take that into consideration before our vote so if

we vote on it and then we have citizens input you know we've already voted on it this way this gives the citizens a chance to come in and and rightfully so let me just say we've had full we've had 12 we've had 12 weeks yes meetings too but I cannot open an advertisement yeah for exactly times but I can already see that you know people are going to say that we maybe

feel that we have stifled their views so this way we do our due diligence we open it up to a public forum and let people say before we go for our votes and we move on and then we go for our votes that's my opinion I'm just one second yeah public Theory right you know I'm not sure I know the definition and I think that the open public meeting

is means the same to me is it in our definitions yeah you know it isn't but I'd like to find out what I would suggest is that your motion include a definition for what that public hearing is and that it be schedule a public hearing that is advertised before you I'll tell you though can I think and I think now we're going to start because we're going to say well look and here it says we have

to have two yeah can we change the motion I mean I know not all of us are in agreement but there has been an opportunity for public input in all the meetings can the motion just be that we promote the final meeting of the the charter yeah if anyone has any comments on the draft and let's stay away from holding a public hearing right one second Mr Robot get an emotion just be that we promote

more than we've already promoted the opportunity for public input in our meeting whenever that fine when we believe if I would draw my motion well I I would draw it before you withdraw the motion before you withdraw the motion let me just have another comment I think because uh there is uncertainty meeting versus hearing versus this meeting that uh you allow me to go uh speak with the clerk's office and

cooperation Council and find out uh one how this topic of a you know the report in the charter be best served to the public like how we should go about that because I think we're rovio's saying we're going to have two public hearings how about if we find out you know if what we did was you know exactly maybe how I think somebody else in this building and in in this

Administration will be able to guide us as to the best man or to advertise promote and schedule I agree what I'm saying I understand what you're saying but if I may if we're confused by the language then the public is confused by language I think personally we've sufficed that to meeting open you know people can come and speak but some people may not have thought that that was their time so if we held in another

one I just want to make sure legally we have met what we've done with R2 we don't need two I don't think we need one open Forum discussion that's right but I want to just make sure we've legally met our requirements I think I think that I I think to to um Corporation Council as to one in nine six have we satisfied that portion of it with the 12 meetings we've had or do we

need two additional hearings and kind of what is the difference right and then I I just think it's I I yeah absolutely we should let the public know but how about we get cooperation counsel to guide us on first have we satisfied and what shall we do next at least an opinion on it I agree I agree I mean I like the motion but I just think we we're we don't seem to really know yeah

he said you have to have public comment and at least two so that's where this topic topic or somebody said we should have public comment on all of them and we all agreed to that and then we talked about the limitation that's when we took up being shot I just mentioned where we said we're not we're going to limit the meeting time we're not going to limit the time of

public input so if it's two hours of public input and we're only meeting until seven well we don't get free agenda I remember that being specifically how we've decided it and it was in relation to that two meeting room requirement that 2 Iron Man so as far as my memory serves but please follow up we've met that requirement over and over again right but to Mr Roblox and Council Washington's point

I would agree to one final review of the completed document if we've reviewed and believe it's ready for you know Prime Time essentially right do we believe that we want the this document We believe We want the public viewing and providing comment on it maybe that's kind of the vantage point you've made today is it ready for them to review to come and talk to us about right and if we all agree then yes

it can be posted advertised they can come one time review the final document with us ask questions and then it can go to the council right that seems like a reasonable kind of approach based on what we decide at the beginning and I would suggest that we could consider Council of Washington's motion subject to the interpretation I believe that but get it scheduled for you know so to be scheduled uh after

advertisements appropriate advertisements and I'm um so just to make the record clear I will seek an opinion from cooperation Council regarding our obligations under 9.6 I will also um try to find out um how we can best serve the public with notification advertisement and promotion you know when would a public hearing be the best time right yeah um and the process available to us to

get the information out to the public like the other the Old Charter I thought we all got mail drafts before I went on the ballet we did we all got drafts in the mail um so I mean that's at the very very yes but what I'm saying is I I want to it works right they were sent out but that was like after you were all done everybody said yes it went Council mayor

AG's office right I don't know that it ever went to the council I couldn't be wrong about that all right let me I'm going to check on that so all right good I'll keep my motion to have one more public input um one more review meeting one more review and public um well Forum yeah my my my only issue with this is you're limiting how many times we're going to meet we haven't

gotten through the documents what if we need three more meetings I that's all I'm saying I just think the motion's premature can I ask a point of quality yeah she's not asking for it yeah no but she only wants one her emotion is one more meeting with us no that's not what I'm asking okay the motion is to have a public forum that is advertised in the manner in which a city

advertises right so one or two what's the motion one yeah ourselves as a committee about the amendment I would say after adoption so it's a motion to have one public hearing after adoption of the the draft the draft Charter and a clarification from the attorney's office that we've met our requirements of that's not in your motion that's not in my emotion your motion is to have a public hearing okay after adaptation

okay because I don't think I need we need a motion for me to go ask for a legal opinion unless you want to make another motion no because well I'm just saying if he says no actually you didn't meet your requirements and we're gonna have to have two right that's why I said you you're talking about the public hearing that's it so the motion is to have a public hearing after the committee adopts and recommends

the new draft Charter okay yeah yeah made by Laura Washington is there a second oh I'm sorry we have a question and now I'm I support Council Washington's motion insofar as I think we should have one more public hearing I want to be clear now on the amended China once we get through all of the documents as a committee but I don't think we should take a final vote until after the public hearing

then we'd have to have another public hearing if we decide to change it we could take the vote at the end of the public forum yeah yeah I mean that would make total sense we we should not be voting on the final amended China before the public hearing so as Council of Washington suggested that there be a public forum and that at the end of that at the conclusion of that then this committee votes on the

blows childhood amendments and subject to any changes that the public encouraged is there a second any further discussion any all in favor aye aye all right any opposed moving on number six discussion and review of the charter report is uh anybody some changes they want to recommend it's just the summary just the dress titled special try to Review Committee Special Report no I'm just I'm talking about the report

not the draft shot we are still on number six special Charter Review Committee Special Report titled report August 24th is cited as the meeting oh thank you okay I am I'm not sure if I'm happy with the third paragraph I'm just saying um I don't know why it needs to be in the report the third paragraph because of the frequency of the meeting some members have had difficulty attending all the

meetings a number of members had conflicts with other meeting requirements including the school committee and city council I just you know I didn't come in because I I had to leave early because I had a babysitting problem I mean I don't want a single members out strike that you address it in the in the fourth paragraph S I noted that for each of the meetings that we discussed topics at length but

we also table them because certain messages and we recognize the fact that you so um can we strike paragraph three no why I don't like singling out but I just don't like singling out people because if you're going to put including school committee and city council you better put family obligations work vacations

I think it singles them out I think reading that makes it sound like don't put these people on committees they're going to miss because they got County meetings yeah commissioner minutes do reflect who was there and who who was absent who was present so is that enough you could even just keep that last line and yeah keep the last line I just want to take out the third paragraph form at every meeting but when

there wasn't a majority of the members present we tabled important items so I just paragraph three I like paragraph four yeah it's just paragraph three we always seeking a majority otherwise we couldn't conduct any businesses how about the first sentence because of the frequency of the meetings some members have had difficulty attending all of the meetings and then skipped to while there was a forum at each meeting

some items were tabled so that that's right that's fine that's fine yeah I can live with that that's what I'll be throwing my school community and City Council Members under there um

progress of the committee

see this uh February 27th the committee voted to include table of contents I like that right but um do do we do we need like see paragraph three the committee recommended that the phrase unless the context requires otherwise be eliminated did you do that in the in all the other ones like when the little things like that the grammatical stuff was changed because those weren't big changes all right

any

can you in on March 20th the committee voted to remove the phrase unwilling can you put unwilling in quotes and underline it because that was it's just so it stands out because we just took out that word unwilling remember it was like yeah yeah we were offended yeah I'm with you I was with you I'm willing but can can we can we like put unwilling in quotes or something just so it stands out

because now that I didn't notice this before right now so what's what is the difference between the committee recommending and agreeing versus voting so in some of these instances we say the committee recommended that the phrase unless the context requires otherwise be eliminated but yet oh yeah yeah that's right so so did that result in a vote that we did

should we just put voted to eliminate that until just now minutes reflect the result of the votes this is just the summer okay it's not it's not the minutes of the meat this is just the point of this is to highlight highlight and explain what the and I think you know the committee agreed to eliminate the term s it's very clear the minutes reflect

is this going to be is this though going to be public it is already but whatever I mean but I'm just saying like then wouldn't someone say like should we have consistency like why did we vote and I hear what you're saying it's the language issue my son sentences a recommendation is a vote if you recommend well maybe there's one word in order to recommend something there has to be a vote

you didn't vote on that you just recommended it or we agreed to it and I just if you're do you need to put the site in for 10 taxpayers versus jay-zio I know it's not a legal brief but do we have to okay okay all right

yeah no I get what you're saying change it to consistently yes only as versus because right

you feed and voted on the following items and then it's very clear the language yeah so we we recommend it it'll be voted it'll be the same word yeah no I hear you right

or we can just oh we can just say that this is the summary of the folks taken by the community I like it I like the word voted I'm happy with the rest of it I think though that in closing though see see the summary I think there needs to be another paragraph that says you know special Charter review recommendations you know um that we recommend that the city adopt uh the new Charter draft

well if you want to draft that as a settlement like like as a okay I will do you want me I know it's in this summary but if they say what does that we recommend adoption of the new Charter I'm just saying one sentence I'm just saying one sentence we that we recommend the adoption of the new Charter we're not going to send it down saying we wrote we don't recommend our own report

that well you were the lone dissenter on it and it should say that it was a unanimous but vote by adopting the new Charter but you know what when I dissented probably on the existing China it said I was the defending book so this should say the committee unanimously voted to adopt the new Charter that committee hasn't voted to adopt anything yet no I know but he needs to leave it

there so we can fill it in if it does because then this way if there's a dissent from adopting the new Charter the report says that the final report doesn't go in until the final Charter is done so he'll know when he writes it the report doesn't go in there's still a public hearing of course so the report is not gonna the report at the end when it says the charter Review Committee

um unanimously voted to adopt this Charter or it's going to say nine to one seven to two six to six but it has to have one more paragraph of what the committee recommends okay can I ask are you opposed why would you be opposed you're not opposed to that I think look I I don't know okay I've only had this amended China for 48 hours but when I get it but I'm

saying you agree that when it's at that time we put that last sentence in correct absolutely okay I thought so I'm not prepared to say how I'm gonna vote on this any further discussion on the Special Report yes

yes change the day uh remove the line that talks about the school committee and city council not being available to me uh put quotations around unwilling um and to reference um votedness versus consistently used the term voted and to include one final um sentence that talks about the result of the vote Yes it's like any further discussion all in favor um anybody opposed motion passes moving on to number seven

I'm gonna take him out of order if you don't mind also take the agenda out of water thank you second in all in favor I actually want to bring everybody's attention to this beautiful table of contents that was the Old Charter did not have a table of contents this new draft has a table of contents any discussion on that yeah one point go ahead the fact that the old child does

not have a table of content is the fourth of the Collins Center and Stephen mcgov thank you thank you put that in the minutes too yeah all that money they didn't give us a table of contents a war with barrowin came up with this disastrous document and the city wasted forty thousand dollars on it um the table of contents one two three four it's five pages and just for the

record because they can't see it uh the table of conscience is laid out with the sections um one through ten and then the page numbers so um I know that we all haven't compared the table of contents to the Charter if you want to defer a vote on that table of contents so you have time to take a closer look or is there any more discussion on the table of contents

is there a motion I make a motion improve there's a motion to accept the table of contents any further discussion my table of contents only one up to two accounts pass it down yeah you know something mine only I have two different copies some are good no it's how the it's how they printed this when they printed this up combine them all right motion on the table to accept the table of contents it's been seconded

um can I am in that motion motion to accept the table of contents for example changes and you know we've got to change a page you want to second that second all right all in favor of the motion to accept the table of contents unless changes are made and then the table of contents will change accordingly all in favor okay any opposed motion passes number seven uh given that everybody has not had an

opportunity to review the draft is there some preliminary discussion yes where we said the city council shall call special election I had a note written to include a primary do we 310 titled vacancy in the office of Mayor in which which paragraphs curves blah blah blah is it the first paragraph and I had to know

and I don't know where I didn't see them and that that's maybe I um let me see I don't have them I should have the minutes on that preliminary plus special

I got 90 days I know that we had um did that fit into the time thing Ryan addressed uh three times do you have any addressed that issue and I can't remember if we I thought he was looking for more time okay oh that's right I thought he said he could do it in that time too I thought he said 150 comes to mind I know that's if it's within 150 there's no there's no special election

if it's within 150 and the language says regular election so I don't know if that means primary applying there's a big difference so I had special election that I had a line to include a primary and final to be held within 90 days following the day um I just reviewed the charter it's not the actual minutes

required

so you're referring to 310 I mean but I didn't see it when Ryan was there I don't know where it landed yeah because I don't see it I don't know if we actually voted on Primary in

yeah oh yeah so that was on the May 1st meeting was when he was here well he came twice I believe he came three times yeah okay so May 1st we had 310 on the agenda he said he could have a prelim and a regular within the 90 days that's what he told us so I don't think that we that we have to put prelim because they handle the election so if the city council calls a

special election it's a prelim and a regular you're saying the last one they did have a preliminary there's a difference

you know

yeah and we'll um call Ryan and and find out if we have to put that language in there a special election shall include people will think it's just one well it only uses the minutes indicate that we approved a motion made by attorney Mitchell that if there is a special election it will include a primary and final if the vacancy occurs within the first 18 months okay yeah so do we have to put that language in

here you think yeah do we put it like absolutely well why did we did we have a definition um section so under definitions can't you put special election and and Define what it is it's a preliminary and a regular I think we voted on it do it so I think you just leave it as we voted on it which was to add that language right in there every every election has a

pulmonary and a general assuming there's enough qualified candidates for preliminary yeah we don't have a special election I I do think we need to add special election to the definitions and then also put the language in the charter I I see where your definitions are I think you we need as much information right it's in the charter I do too I think so so I I think that you have to add special

election to your definitions and then in 310 the link that should read whatever vacancy occurs in the office of May or by death removal resignation or any other reason during the first 18 months of the term for which the mayor is elected the city council shall call a special election which will include a preliminary and regular comma something that there's a well that's the second half of the sentence

the second half it's oh yeah it's a it's the first half so during the first evening idea the city council shall call a special election comma to include a preliminary and regular comma to be held within the 90 days following the date of the vacancy right I don't I don't know if this gets to laborious or not but when you cite a section let's say I I don't know where I

know I've seen it the the provisions of nine Dash whatever apply to should we have a summary of what that section is in the new China when we refer it or the title of it maybe right rather than because even my cursory review of the amended Charter right now you almost need the two Childers side by side to see what the changes are that's what's included in the special Charter report yeah right

I'm sorry I think I thought I could leave so thank you Mr Mitchell we'll keep you we'll keep you updated we'll have another meeting yeah let me know all right thank you thank you so we're going to add special election to the definitions and then we're going to add after special election in 310 to include a preliminary and final election correct all righty alrighty oh page numbers you're gonna have page numbers okay

look at the Angry Eyes okay he's gonna have page numbers he will he will I don't know if this allows me to patient S one of us can type women you know what I mean when you go to scan it and with somebody like the other the other part I had was 4-3 which which we said we're gonna for this school committee it was going to be the same as 2-3 holding other City positions so 4-3

I just want to read it in the record are prohibitions which reads November the school committee shall hold any other compensated City position no former member of the school committee shall hold any compensated appointed city office or city employment until one year following the date and then what was the other one two dash three just saying that first sentence is going to going to k2-3 which was except as

otherwise provided

but we didn't copy that over into 4-3 you the two were going to mirror each other right when it came to city council and school committee you follow that Mr Clerk and which one are we saying so two three is prohibition is correct 4-3 was not right so we can fix that they were going to mirror each other one reference to the prohibitions of the city council one reference prohibitions the language

should be exact exactly the same yes all right yes were you talking about now does that mean that people that hold more than one position now are going to be grandfathered in and nobody else can hold more than one position so this isn't about holding one more than one position I thought it was it was there was more to do no member of the school Community shall hold any other compensated City position unless that

position was held prior to election right right I'll tell you what though right after that if you didn't help if you didn't hold it prior to the prior to the uh election whatever it was that was reference you can't close your positions anymore if you hold one position you can't hold two you couldn't you can't in the original trailer it's the same because you've got to change it is your grandfather to me

the language can't be exactly exactly Council two three references

more than one position he can keep it yes and that's based on the head scores yeah right now wait a minute that's something entirely different the heads will decision this is my opinion and I'll refer I'll deferred to the two Warriors that are now remaining in attorney Mitchell and former mayor Mitchell have left um but that the handful of decision refers specifically to elected office

and is right to run right while he was a city employee you you connect the court struck that down what and I was I was the biggest fan of that that section being burnt because I argued at the time you cannot prevent a Public Employee no matter what their position is from running and seeking uh political office now yeah when Mr Hansel was elected to the school committee he had to choose which

position he was compensated for obviously he was a sitting member of the fire department so he chose that position and was not compensated as far as I know for the school committee absolutely that that's why we change this that's why right so that what we're not we're not debating what's in what we changed in 2-3 all we're saying is that we had notes that foreign

decision had more to do with his right to run for elective office that reflects the new language reflects that opinion I don't think we ever argued that to be honest no no no one did all we're saying no I mean

the only other my thing was if he ran if he was elected then you had to choose one or the others I'm not denying you being elected Simon Memorial you can still hold those both of those positions you just have to pick one to be compensated from you can't you cannot hold two compensated positions it's only about the money that's my language that's in here that's compensated right that's what that's what's in there and

that's what's decided forward

I had a note that we added a section at the very end H which referred to the have I couldn't even do my own writing refer timeline to 3-8 and 3-10 does anyone else have I I don't know what do you call it timeline two three dash 8 and 3-10 where are you it's section 8-5 let's think of it did you say age did I misunderstand what you hate we had so I have in

section in my notes I had sections my apology section eight 8-5 at the very end because it talked about the recall holder recall and then I have written in h referred timeline to 3-8 and 3-10 and that would be absolutely when when there's a reference to two sections that's what I'm saying should we have a a summary in the in the news of what those of what those sections say

or at least the title or at a minimum instead of repeat so let's just say 4.1 says everything has to be done on December 25th and then Section 8 says referring to section 2.8 maybe in parentheses we could just put the title of that having enough info where someone would know what that refers to right without having to go and look at the form machata

um so here we go in article 4 section 4-2 the sentence reads as soon as practically after school committee members elect have been qualified following each regular city election as provided in 9-11 perhaps we should put in parentheses the title of 9-11 is certificate of election or appointment and that's it because then they know 911 is you're sending them there to look at the certificate yeah I get what you're

saying instead of I don't know right you just turned back I'd like to see one phrase one phrase uh keyword that say what that the table of content meets it that's fine

if you look at nine section 9-12 Limited in the in the draft I know but she did her homework um I have one more too so nine uh 12.

the first sentence as a city employee may see in the empty office maybe because then I had a note fix the lane but that's different than that can I ask what document you're referring to right I'm referring to the draft in the draft section 9-12 the draft amended China the one we got today the one we're looking at today the amended job yeah and I had to know fixed language changed same language as 2-3 and 4-3

but I'm not sure now well it can't because those are different prohibitions the prohibitions in two three and four three talk about everything except an elected office this is taught this is the this actually is the fixed Hetzel Clause this is the one where all right he was a city employee and sought an elected position they said no and they went to two three and four three and said you can't but it actually was 9 12

that they said now you can't stop anybody from running yeah so we fixed it the language in there is fixed yeah I have one that I found go ahead we're done with that it's um 7-1 preliminary elections and I think this was directly from Mr Lyons I have notes here that said minimum 35 days recommended 45 days and I added it as where are you seven months yes

and I don't I see the 28 days is still listed in the in the revive in the the draft Charter suggested 45-40 and I believe there was a vote on that because it's in two different places in my house suggested 45 days so that's in seven one yeah whenever a special election to film vacancy is to be held a preliminary election shall be conducted if necessary 45 days before the date established with a special

election and that was directed Lions saying that the 28-day turnaround was impossible so a check to see if we passed the motion for 45 yeah did you look at the minute well no not right now but Paul can check it he's got the minutes in there I was going back and forth with with my notes on the old one and the new one and that's where I came up with it and I

don't have all the minutes with me right now I would have to go through them yeah no I know that we did expand the time that was all on me first

yeah I I was taking notes so I didn't make note on the chocolate itself like the first two pages I'm thinking about it now for you because that's the way I'm reconciling what you have in the draft compared to what we because I was I on started later doing that because this is I started running in a notebook I said this is actually a much better yeah

45 days

and I know the signatures got captured but not the one not the 7.1 the 7.2 is captured yeah I have 45 days was suggested but was that actual vote taken yeah we're gonna have to check I got I I put suggested next to it so I don't know that I had suggested yeah

I'm sorry uh second seven one two and the rest of the spiritual preliminary elections so that in a special election in a special election United mention anything I'm sorry can you repeat that yes primary elections seven one yes seven two I guess the chapter thinkers collections oh there whenever a special election to fill a vacancy is to be held a preliminary election shall be conducted

if necessary 28 days before the date established for the special election that's the 45 we're talking right moves back to the

this whole section or chapter seven Loops to that yeah maybe a member where in some cases in some cases they mentioned special election and otherwise in the vacancy of Mayor section did you reference seven one and two remember how we just put the language in preliminary regular

there was the addition second sentence the city council called special election comma you were going to add to include a preliminary and final election shouldn't I know shouldn't you just reference but shouldn't you also reference seven one and seven two uh right that's what you're saying that's what you're saying right determination a character in characters candidates say demigod number one officer mayor the two

candidates was here in the highest number of the votes for nomination at the preliminary election except it's provided in the second days I'll be sole candidates that number two says if two or more candidates are elected to the same office at the regular or special for the election or maybe number one should say the same thing for the officer man but wait a minute right here because because they're very

confused confused section seven one to to your point so it says whenever a special election to fill a vacancy is to be held a preliminary election shall be conducted if necessary 28 days before the date established for this special election and then going back to 310 we're saying the city council shall call a special election to include a preliminary election you know what I'm saying yeah but if necessary you don't

need a polymer if no if only one person's running like that's why see how it says if necessary before the 45 days on 7-1 because if you have a minimum amount of candidates you don't need a preliminary you only have a permanent preliminary when there's 19 members for the city council 13 for school committee and a minimum of three for men maybe we don't need to add what I was saying in section 3-10 just reference

seven one and seven two because the way we had worded it in 3-10 kind of made it sound like they had to have a preliminary it does

but you know what I'm saying we're saying you should have a special election that includes a preliminary right but then in 7-1 we're saying whatever if it's necessary shall be held if necessary right it's reference seven one and seven two seven one and seven Dash 2.

right yeah either you do you do you do reference seven one and seven two or add preliminary if necessary right Miss Washington Miss Washington in one and two the offers are married this is the two tenants receives but the city council was two more tenants so have I did the same regular or special election the office the mayor there could be two candidates with a special election and the word

special relation isn't in that paragraph well then what happened there has to be two candidates for a special election office of Mayor does is missing the special election goodbye miss Washington thank you thank you sorry thank you what chapter is the recall language in shame on me oh it was the day five in the original Shadow I don't know where it is here I imagine so see where um seven two small eye

right two candidates receive the highest never votes denomination of the preliminary election whereas two says that 12 or more candidates are elected the same office at a regular or special see the two the worried words the second one here and then right below it the city council and school committee if two are more elected it only references regular and special see how the office of Mayor references

the preliminary but the city and school committee only referenced the regular and special if there's a problem with this there's just too many words in some of these and right we use

hard to go back and forth into determine because that's all the same thing I know it's very different to other people so just for consistency sake

like I don't know what this even means okay 7-2 I officer than there the two candidates receive I know what this means I'll tell you what part I go I don't know what it means the two candidates receiving the highest number of votes for nomination at the preliminary election except as provided in subsection d I'll see we need some reference today subsection D is where condition making

preliminary unnecessary so if you don't have enough candidates you don't have to have a plenary but okay okay but subsection D is is just talking about when you don't have to have a preliminary all right shall be the sole candidates for that office whose name shall be printed on the official ballot to be used at the regular or special city election at which the office is to be voted upon and no acceptance of a

nomination shall be necessary to its validity I mean what is up with that language I don't know what you you only need you only need a preliminary if you have three or more right for me yeah and if you have 19 or more 19 for Council and and 13 for school committee because the room with double plus one right but do you read that sentence is there no way to make that easier yeah

why but no acceptance of a nomination shall be necessary to his validity what does that mean does it mean that the person has to accept the nomination he or she can't be just thrust down the palette without his or her approval is that what it means no acceptance of a nomination shall be necessary to its validity what does that mean I don't know I'll strike it that's what I mean what does it mean anybody no

I don't know what what I was there I had I know that I attended every meeting but the two names are on the ballot

you lost me section 7-2 d right small I office of Mayor last seven words of that paragraph and no acceptance of a nomination shall be necessary to its validity okay motion to strike second all in favor all right okay maybe you should check the election so here's here's one of my other problems just I will send another one Office of the mayor this is the whole sentence the two the two candidates

receive in the highest number of votes I'm reading to I'm reading the same one seven two small I Office of the mayor the two candidates receiving the highest number of votes for nomination at the preliminary except as provided in subsection d That's when you don't need a preliminary shall be the sole candidates for that office whose name shall be printed on the ballot to be used at the regular special

like can't you just put their names on the ballot I mean why is there 400 other words in there why because the Consultants wanted to earn that 40 Grand yeah how else would you say it I would say to get a candidate on the ballot how about right other than television election and getting the second right I mean right Shelby the soul candidates for that office whose name shall be printed on

the official period period right it's just that it even seems a slightly of the statement in the first place is my point I mean why does one hold a preliminary election to find the top two go vote Getters to put on the ballot so that whole section is for two of us well but they because it's the child that they want to be as specific as possible we already know that I don't know

judges have already said that the chatter was was vague yeah well again I think it's just it falls under like I said determinations

yes I think that there's been no write-in maybe that maybe that's taking out the whole possibility of a writing no a write-in is the home of the procedure yeah I don't know if you can I don't know if you can rewrite the election laws no no uh I don't know what they are a write-in is completely different right but I mean why can't it just say the two candidates received the highest number

of votes for nomination at the prelim except as provided in subsection two shall be the sole candidates for that office I'm a ballot for the special or regularly but but forget about the right and writing is something completely different but yeah is that what that is referring to that that's what happens shall be necessary to its validity so that says because the section we're talking about is determination of

candidates that's why I think it's right in because it's saying no accessories of a nomination shall be necessary to lose validity so it could be those two candidates plus if there's a writing right a procedures for a write-in you don't even you don't even get signatures if you're all right I know that I know that but this is saying this one section the termination of Canada listen they don't have it in the next

paragraph So it's garbage so it doesn't have it no it's not consistent so I take it right out because it's if it's do you propose ending it at the city special city election period yes okay yes okay Madam chair can somebody make a motion as to what they want to strike Quinn okay a great novel this is Beyond confusing okay there's been a motion to strike and I'm gonna explain what it is with it

and what's being strict is that good okay under 7-2 titled preliminary election procedures yeah small I is part of subsection C determination of candidates office of Mayor the two candidates receiving the highest number of votes for nomination at the preliminary election except as provided in subsection D shall be the sole candidates for that office whose name shall be printed on the official ballot

to be used at the regular or special city election at which the office is to be voted upon in no acceptance of a nomination shall be necessary to its validity is how it reads there's been a motion to strike everything after special election so the new sentence would read this the two candidates receiving the highest number of votes for nomination at the preliminary election except as provided

in subsection D shall be the sole candidates for that office whose name shall be printed on the official ballot to be used at the regular special election period second oh I I think I finally understand what that last sentence in that sense that I think no acceptance of Dairy meaning at the point where the two candidates the two highest vote Getters get on the ballot neither one of those candidates need to formally

accepts and maybe that's what they mean but it's again it seems like an overreach I'm happy with your emotion I second it you've never needed to accept a nomination on the 30 level first of all City elections are nonpartisan right so all in favor any opposed motion passes strike some of that I'm going to refer you to city council school committee which looks fine because it doesn't have

that extra language in it did you have a question or a comment no I was just yeah so we are um we have 20 minutes uh left because we always end at seven and um can I make a suggestion is there is there more do you guys have any special ones um I would like um to have another meeting to review this I don't uh Mr Clark I don't think you should rewrite yet

until we're all done until we're all done and then we'll have another meeting about the redo and we can't we cannot have any public hearings or any ah we can't have anything till we've decided we have to have gone through yeah make sure I got it

I will review it one last time do you want to send the edited version before the next meeting okay so let's get on our calendars shall we

here we go I'm I just pulled up the weather just for the record not the talent that means it's time to go home it is how is everybody's September 18th that's the day I was looking at 9 18. that's fine you going dancing you know what I mean here we go 9 18. is that good for you may be questionable but um oh yeah for sure for sure okay so 9 18

for the next meeting and then you'll do you'll send us something with these right so we can go from that document on I'm not going to print hard copies of that to be available I will definitely find out why stuff is not online well but you'll send it out here because if you look at the point they don't post I I don't I never really got it either like I would send the minutes

and I would have to send them to it and the clerk and then the clerk's office started telling me don't send us the minutes I would send them to it and it would say you have to send the accepted minutes but you're going to send the minutes out to be accepted so I don't know what's going on over there I'm just going to try to figure it out I have seen

I have Roblox on it I have seen some some minutes because if you work on the boardroom conditions this committed this group whatever however we want to refer to it now we are on the Boardman commissions on the website if you look at our page under the boards and Commission Section there are some minutes in some agendas with them they're not in order they're not in any cohesive yeah that makes me crazy

that makes me crazy and that's what quite frankly that's where I would that's where I work for the amended child for this meeting wasn't there I worked at the posting for this meeting which is on the calendar of the City website and the agenda was there I thought maybe the amended channel was there um let me ask you this Mr Vice chair yeah is it possible for you to maybe find out

why the website is so irregular with what they post I think because I am telling you they are getting it I I can give you an answer because I deal with this on the disability commission so much so that the disability commission has its own website huh okay is there a webmaster for the city yeah there is there is and he's a nice guy Val right no it's um Oh I

thought it was Val no it's taiwan's hair the only person I ever spoke to about the stuff was uh Val is there a motion to adjourn ing all in favor aye any opposed to a journey at uh