9.9.2025 Fall River City Council

City Council public hearing come to order. Clerk will call the role.

Council Kadine.

Kadine, you here?

Oh, I'm here. Sorry.

Dion, I'm not. Yes. Here.

Hart here.

Kilby here.

Here tip here.

President here. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting to any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Motion to open the public hearing.

Second.

Motion to open the public hearing has been made and seconded. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries. Item number one is an underground conduit.

Massachusetts Electric Company doing business as National Grid for an underground conduit location as follows.

Innovation Way beginning at a point approximately 3,689 feet northeast of the center line of the intersection of Innovation Way and Airport Road and continuing approximately 36 feet easternly. Install conduit on Innovation Way from Manhole 5 to the VMD property located at 875 Innovation Way. In accordance with the plan number 311039 63 petition A, there's a restriction. It's going to be

curbto curb roadway restoration required. Are there any proponents for this public hearing? Any proponents?

Please come down. State your name, what company you're with, and address so you can tell us why you're a proponent.

Rebecca, could you please speak into the microphone? Thank you.

One of those should reach.

Hello. Okay. Uh, Rebecca Castaddio, National Grid. Just here to answer questions.

We don't have any questions. Just tell us why it's important if you can. If not, that's fine.

There's a new building going in. Um, so unfortunately, we have to put in a couple new manholes, conduit. Um, that explains it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Good job.

You can you can sit there if you like because there's two more coming up next.

Okay. Are there any opponents to this public hearing? Any opponents?

Seeing now, we move on to item number two. Massachusetts Electric Company doing business as National Grid for an underground conduit location as follows.

Innovation Way, beginning at a point approximately 3,16 ft southeast from the center line of the intersection of Innovation Way and the Route 24 overpass and continuing approximately 101 ft northeasternly. Install conduit on Innovation Way from Manhole 9 to the VMD property located at 1025 Innovation Way in accordance with the plan number 311 03963 petition B. Are there any um there's

also restriction curb to curb roadway restoration is required. Is there any proponents to this public hearing? Any proponents?

We take you're an opponent, a proponent, right Amanda?

Oh, yeah, that's me. Sorry. Uh, yep.

Same thing. Um, we just need to put conduit in for an a new manhole to run power to the building.

Thank you so much.

Are there any opponents to this public hearing? Any opponents?

Seeing none, we move on to item number three. Massachusetts Electric Company doing business as National Grid for an underground conduit located as follows on Current Road beginning at a point approximately 273 7 237 ft southeast of the center line of the intersection of Sykes Road to Current Road and continuing approximately 796 feet southeasternly.

Install manhole 13 400 ft southeasterly from the existing manhole on at 187 on Conduit Road. In addition, install manhole 13-1 318 ft southeasternly from the newly installed manhole 13 on Current Road.

Install a riser on the existing pole number 10-50 on current road approximately 50 feet southsoutheasternly from the new newly installed manhole 13-1 and install conduit between the new equipment in accordance with plan number 31103963 petition C. The restriction is curb to centerline roadway restoration shall be required. Are there any proponents to this public hearing? Any proponents?

It's me. Uh, we are again, same thing.

Uh, it's all underground, so we have to put in new manholes and every time there's a new building or new conduits.

All right. Thank you. You can leave the table now. Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Are there any opponents to this public hearing? Any opponents?

Seeing none. Close the public hearing.

Entertain a motion to close the public hearing. Has remain second. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Public hearing is now closed.

City Council Committ to order the clerk will call the role.

Council Kadim here.

Dion here.

Hart here.

Kilby here.

Herrera here.

Ponty here.

Reposo here.

Tip here.

President Kamar here.

Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Item number one is since input time. I want to remind everyone you have three minutes to speak.

We have a number of individuals that have signed up. First we have Talis Faras. Subject matter veterans.

That's Taylor Ferris.

Taylor Ferris. Sorry about that.

My apologies.

Council President for the three minutes.

Council President, I ask permission to wave the rules for three minutes.

How many minutes do you have?

About six and a half.

Motion wave rules.

Stop talking.

Motion to wave the rules. Has been made and seconded. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Before I uh dive into the preset words I prepared for the city council today, I want to start by reading section 13 from my DD23 DD214.

Just a moment here to reorientate that.

Section 13 is decorations, medals, badges.

And this again is my DD214.

Navy Marine Corps achievement medal x times three. Combat action ribbon x times two. Presidential unit citation.

Navy unit accommodation times two.

Meiritorious unit accommodation times two.

Navy combat medal or excuse me, Navy good conduct medal times four. National Defense Service Medal, Iraq Campaign Medal with EGA. That's Eagle, Globe, and Anchor. Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal Times Two. Global War on Terror Service Medal 2. Sea Service Deployment Medal* 5. Navy Marine Corps Overseas Service Ribbon. And last but not least, Navy and Marine Corps expert rifle and pistol qualifications.

I'm going try to speed through this. I want to preface all of this with the position of the VSO has turned over several times over the course of the last few years, which I'm sure you all are aware of.

First and foremost, thank you for the opportunity to stand before you today and not just as a director of veteran services, but as a proud resident of the city of Fall River, a leader, father, and most importantly, a veteran. I love my job. Every single day I wake up with the privilege of serving the men and women who raised their right hand, swore an oath, and risked everything for our

country. My passion for this work comes not from a paycheck, but from my own lived experience.

Struggling to transition out of service, navigating homelessness, and facing the same obstacles that many of our veterans still face here in Fall River. Like many who have worn a uniform, my journey here has not been easy. I know what it feels like to come home from service and not know where you fit. I know the uncertainty of not having stable housing, of feeling invisible in the very country you

sacrificed for. I was once asked what my view on Vietnam veterans were. And I rever them because not many have fought for this country and come home and not been welcome.

But I also know what it means to stand back, to find purpose again, to rebuild step by step with resilience, faith, and the help of a community that believed in me. That is why I pour everything into this role. Because my story is not unique. It is shared by countless veterans in this city. And when they look at me, I want them to see living proof that you can overcome, you can

rise, and you can still make an impact after the uniform comes off. By God's grace and with the support of my family in this community, I've been able to do just that. Under my leadership, the Bristol Community College Student Veterans of America chapter was recognized nationally as a finalist for chapter of the year. I was selected as a fellow as a leadership fellow for Student Veterans of America and sent to

Washington DC. One of 65 students selected from thousands, two from New England. I'm one of those.

I've also been not only selected but elected to be an executive board member for VSOs across the state in just a year's time frame. In the Southeast region, I am their sergeant-at-arms.

Also a member of the advisory committee for that same organization.

Locally, I was honored to be chosen as that sergeant-at-arms, and that means everything to me. Here in Fall River, I've helped create community veterans engagement board, giving veterans a seat at the table to shape how services are delivered. I've been building bridges across the South Coast, connecting communities and veteran organizations so that no veteran feels left behind.

Bridges that were previously burned on purpose.

I've established with community partners and helped over 30 veterans and or their families find housing in that time frame. Beyond veterans, I poured my heart into the youth of this city as well, coaching girls basketball, mentoring youth athletes, and holding free camps for those same girls. Because I believe our daughters deserve just as much as our sons do. I share these accomplishments not for recognition, but

to show the truth. My service here has never been about me. It has always been about lifting others up. I remember when I first stepped into this role, a previous VSO, whom we will not name, told me, "You're going to have to play politics whether you like it or not. And yes, you're going to have to pick a side." To that, I say this. I have chosen a side. I choose a side of the

United States veteran who lives in this city and across our country. I choose a side of doing what's right by people without expecting something in return because our veterans have already paid in full.

I choose a side of solutions over complaints and arguments and of a vision. A vision of how Fall River can become the beacon of the South Coast by leading from the front. It is because of that passion and that commitment that I must also speak to the challenges that I've faced and that we face. Not from a lack of resources or will, but from political interference and personal agendas that are harming the very people

we are supposed to be here to serve.

Over the course of the last 14 months, I've learned of repeated efforts to undermine my role, delay fair contract negotiations, and even push for my removal. These efforts are not about accountability or certificates or certifications.

They are about politics and control.

When influence is used to intimidate, divide, and block progress for veterans, it does not just target me personally.

It targets the veterans of Fall River and that I cannot and will not stand for. For years, dysfunction has plagued the Fall River War Veterans Council, but working with the new commander, we found an ability to be resolute to join together and work for a better purpose.

I cannot and I will not allow the dysfunction that used to be a part of that organization to take root ever again. I recognize that not all members of the counselor the council here are veterans yourselves and that is not a criticism. It is simply a fact. And because of that fact, it is even more important that this body listens and respects and sincerity to the voices of the veterans in this city. You may not

have lived our experience, but you hold a responsibility to ensure that those veterans in this city are treated with fairness, equity, and dignity. Conflicts of interest surrounding certain media outlets, organizations, and individuals at times drowned out the voices of the many in this city.

In order to advance the agendas of a few. When that happens, the entire veteran community suffers. I do not come into this I did not come into this position to play politics because I am too busy living real life. I came into this position to serve and I will not be silenced. I will not kneel and kiss the ring and I will not be intimidated or pushed aside because the veterans of

Fall River deserve a leader and an advocate who will fight for them every single day without fear or favor. To this council and to the people of this city, I am asking for accountability and fairness free of racial prejudice. I am asking you to safeguard the independence of the office of veteran services to protect it from undue interference and to ensure that veterans are always

placed above petty political games and friendship favor. This is bigger than me. I've lived my life by the mantra be a part of something bigger than yourself. This is about trust, integrity, and ensuring that the men and women who wore the uniform never used as pawns in political games. My story is a comeback story, but it is not mine alone. It belongs to every veteran who fought their way back from the edge,

every family who stood by their side, and every community that lifted them up instead of tearing them down.

That is the vision I carry with me every day into this role. That is the standard that I hold myself to every day. I invite you, this council, to stand with me. Together, we can build a Fall River where veterans are not just honored with words, but supported with action. Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Second, we have Colin D. Subject matter center.

Yeah. Council seat six council.

I'm a little confused. Um I think we're all confused, council.

Yes.

Um I don't generally speak like to speak and engage in citizens input even though we've all done that in the past. But this is the a department head a veterans agent VSO who's a department head who I know is before us tonight for a contract moving the role to contract. But there was a lot of claims there. There was a lot of things that accusations accusations claims accusations same

thing about some inequalities that I believe that this council should you know we heard and if there's something going on underneath the underlining here I think this this should be referred to human resources for there to be any kind of internal investigation because with all due respect I I do recall you know a time where people were feeling threatened and and intimidated and I

don't think that's good for government and I don't think that's good for a department head to come down here and speak with as much passion as he did. So I'd like to urge I'll just write a letter myself if my colleagues don't want to do it to the human resources department and the city administrator the interim city administrator to investigate whatever is going on there because as one counselor I'm extremely

concerned about the tone the tenor and some of the claims or accusations that just came from a department head at citizen input at a city council meeting.

So, I I'll I'll formulate a meeting.

I'll get with the I mean a letter tomorrow and I think as a council if there's stuff that's going on, I think the city needs to investigate these things. So, I yield, Mr. President.

Thank you, Council C4.

Thank you much, Mr. President. Yeah. I mean, Council Pon beat me to it, but I'll tell you that those comments are uh are glaring for me as well, Council President. I mean, I mean that there's there's a lot of things that were said there. And if and if those type of things are happening amongst this body, which I doubt, or anyone else, um could because there's been a history in that vet veterans department of some

um I'm not saying mismanagement, but there's been some issues that that been going on in the past. And I don't I don't know what's within their organization itself, divergent groups within the veterans organization, but I surely hope and pray it has nothing to do with any uh elected official or anything of that nature in the city. So I think council pawn is right on. So uh Nick, who is here, I hope he's hearing

us loud and clear that I think we would like um some type of analysis or interview, a meeting with not us, but him. that's his job to uh get to the bottom of this because I I don't take accusations like that very very lightly at all. None of us should. None of us should. Veterans play such a great role.

They've done so much for this country and for us and for the community that that's that's very alarming. But thank you for your patience, Mr. President. I yield.

Thank you, Council.

Hey, please listen listen. We're we're in middle of finance. We don't need applause. I let it go on the first time.

It's not going to go anywhere.

The emails were sent to you.

Thank you so much, Council C1. Council, all the fraud, corruption, governments, it's all been there. Why?

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. So, I I do uh I agree with my colleague. I think, you know, we should refer this to the administration, but what I will say is is I I've had the opportunity to uh obviously read some emails, hear some um some issues that are are concerning.

Again, um I only hear one side of the story, but what I will say, and I'll take the opportunity to say it now, the the statement was political interference. And and I just want to remind my colleagues and and tell the administration, I've had this conversation a million times with the administration. I think um there's just too much interference from individual members of the city council on

day-to-day operations. And I think it's important for us to understand our role and responsibility. We are a legislative body. We do not run day-to-day. Um I I've requested that the mayor um have these conversations with individual members of the city council, all of all the members uh to suggest that any requests go through the administration.

I mean, we we have we have counselors who call department heads and uh the problem that you run into is that there are nine city councilors who want nine different things. When you stop having a conversation and calling department heads uh directly, let's let's just say it's uh a 10-minute conversation with each each council. That's 90 minutes that you've just taken away from that

department head's day. Okay? And then if you send that department head in nine different directions, how are they getting anything done? Um again, the charter is very clear. We can't mandate them to do anything. I think any requests should go through the mayor. Um I I think if there are concerns about any departments, those should also run through the uh the administration because they run day-to-day operation. I

just I just really want to highlight that from our standpoint. It's important at least for me. Um and I I support the administration on anything that comes down from them. uh with regards to uh and I don't want to say a mandate m maybe a mandate is too strong but uh for a lack of better terminology a mandate that all requests go through the administration because at some point the

political interference and that's that's exactly what it is you know I'm on dayto-day I'm on the other side so I understand what political interference does I I understand the impact it has on uh the operations of of local government so it's important for us to recognize that if we do have legitimate concerns we do have requests that need to be addressed and met. I think those requests need to be addressed to the to

the administration and if there's uh interference or obstructionists on any department, I you know, I for one would not tolerate that. So, I I do I'd support the administration to do whatever we need to do to to correct it and um rectify the situation that we that we've heard about. And again, I don't know all of all of the information that was stated. I I know a lot of it was more just generalization. Um but I

I'd like to understand exactly where this messaging was coming from. So I agree counsel at least. Find out what it is he's talking about and who's referring to. If there's people that are doing things they should be doing, we should definitely find out about it.

Mr. President, Council C6, I'd like to make a motion that the city council as a body um we are we are in time.

I know, but we're in we're at I we're still in the committee on finance and this is I think the only appropriate time to do it. I just would I don't want to file a resolution.

I'd like to make a motion, very simple, that the city council send a letter to the human resource department, the interim city administrator, and the mayor to review the citizens input that was discussed tonight and uh have any internal investigations as they find necessary um due to the claims and accusations that were heard here tonight. So, make that in form of a motion.

Motion has been made and second on the motion. You yield council council C1 council D.

I was going to make an amendment to the motion, but I changed my mind. Never mind. I yield.

All right. Motion has made in second.

All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Okay. Now we go on to number two, Mr.

Colin D. Subject matter peace center.

Thank you. Um, thank you counselors. And just before I begin, I also want to echo that call. Um, and hopefully whatever this is that the BSO brought down today is fully addressed and held to the fullest extent of the law. The reason I wanted to come down today was um it's originally for the pay center and I'm going to discuss that. Um, also wanted to discuss, if it's okay, council

president, the um traffic um crossing guards that's going to be discussed today as well. I was able to um watch How you doing within three minutes?

You're good.

Thank you. Um I was able to watch the ordinance subcommittee meeting and um that's the first time I've ever heard as a member of the school committee anything to do with the um crossing guards with possibly members of the fall public schools specifically the Paris serving as crossing guards. We haven't heard anything from the city on our end.

So definitely needs to be better communication there.

Um, and I also do support re possibly even just having the conversation of reshuffleling the way the crossing guards fall under if um it's going to help the taxpayers and also help optimize public safety. It's my understanding this used to be a program that was under the control of the police department. I believe this was back in 2019, so I'm not sure what happened there. So, there definitely

needs to be a bigger conversation. And there is, while I'm at it, there is also many outstanding outdated agreements between various departments in the Farber public schools. And I'll just give two just for an example. One, we have an SRO agreement which hasn't been renegotiated since 2022, which should be relooked into. and we have an indirect cost agreement which is if we want to help the taxpayers of the

city that's one of the biggest ways in the short term we can do so that hasn't been touched since FY17 from the information I've received from from this school department. So I think there needs to be a serious look at these contracts especially if we want to talk about transportation and saving the saving the city some money on the city side. So that's where we need to start and I'm willing to help any way I can.

Thank you, Mr. President. Council C5, I just want to add one thing because it was talked about that it was at the ordinance committee, which is one of the committees I chair and my colleagues that are on the council that also serve on the ordinance committee. Uh we did talk about crossing gods, but Stephanie MacArthur, who is here this evening, said we were going to look at different

options for crossing guards. She never said that they were going to use paras.

She said they were looking at options of what people could be used. Could it be a crossing guard? Could it be an SRO? She didn't know. She just threw that out.

Nobody ever said it was going to be Paris. Okay, just as clarification with that I yield.

Thank you councelor. Fair enough.

Next we have Stacy Silva. Subject matter. Ryzen restaurant.

What restaurant?

Ryzen.

Oh.

Yes.

Stacy.

Hi everyone.

Hi Stacy.

Hi. Um, the reason I'm here today is because of the restaurant on 159 South Main Street. I live in one of the um buildings with elderly and disabled and um I was wondering um you guys don't have to do anything.

It's it's it's all up. It's it's all in me.

I don't know if he um watched that elb rescue with John Hafta, but um I wrote him my email and he hasn't gotten back with me. he has gotten back with me yet, but um if he does, then I and I'll tell him about the restaurant if he could um see if he could um re um reopen it for us because I know you guys have um I going to um do downtown with

those um condos up above from from the cherry and we're building And um I know there's another restaurant there, but the um I'm not saying nothing bad about the other restaurant. They have good food, but they close um Monday through Saturday at 8:00.

And then this restaurant used to stay open past 8 if they had entertainment.

So um um so, um if um if that's I mean if I could get hold of as I said um Mr.

Taffer and see if he could help me rescue it and like get new owners. I know you you guys can't get the owners because they don't own any owner. They don't own any the restaurant anymore, but if I could find a couple people, they could help me out.

I mean, not you specifically, but me and um take it from there. Um I'm not asking for your help. I'm just asking if I could do this for you guys to help you guys out. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Stacy. Thanks, Stacey.

Next, we have Kelly Buchanan. Subject matter, illegal encampments.

Good evening. Um, I know I spoke to uh a couple of people earlier before the meeting and I know the plan is to go down the middle street and so forth so on. I've been hearing this for two plus years now. So, I I'm going to be honest, I'm I have no faith uh that it's going to happen. If it does, I'll be extremely happy. But, I just wanted to share we've

had numerous fires. We're breathing in.

We don't even know what. Um, we had I have an elderly neighbor whose yard again, he confronted a person. There's going to something's going to happen.

One of my neighbors are going to end up hurt or somebody else is going to end up hurt when this could be prevented. Um, he his window was his back window of his car was smashed. You know, it's not fair to us the law abiding citizens. I've been here two plus years asking. I'm not asking where I can see if I was coming here asking you guys to make up a whole

new law. I'm just asking for what's on the books to be followed. Um, this small group of people are terrorizing the city and it's just lawlessness and I'm just asking for it to stop. I mean, it's it's great if you come down and clear out our area. It's going to throughout the whole city.

We need to we need accountability.

They're not going to get help unless they're forced to get help. We might be saving somebody's life if they go to jail. Like I said last time, we can look at ways of taking it off their record five years from now if they stay clean and sober. But what we're doing is a disjustice to people. The human beings living like animals and what we're doing is kind of just feeding them whatever

and leaving them there and they're terrorizing the rest of us. So we need to we need accountability. I'm held accountable.

So is all my uh community. They need to be held accountable. If it looks if we offer them treatment, we offer them shelter, they don't take it, doesn't matter where it is, there has to be accountability. They they need to get locked up. It might be saving somebody's life. That's somebody's child. That's somebody's mother, father, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, whatever. That is somebody that's somebody's person. So,

we just need to do something. We need to do better. What we're doing has not worked. It's never going to work.

They're never going to get clean and sober because we just enable it. So, we need to stop enabling it, hold them accountable, and I just I think we'll have a better result where people will get clean and sober and, you know, do better for themselves. So, I'm hoping it comes to fruition that we my area gets cleaned up. I'm hoping for I'm hoping for the whole city cuz the south end,

it's awful. So, I'm hoping that we can do it as a city and clean up our city and bring fall back fall river back to what it should be. And with that, I'm just Thank you. So, I just appreciate if you guys will really push for it.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thanks, Kelly.

Hopefully, this is my last meeting like Allison. Congratulations.

That is your last meeting with Allison.

Hopefully, it's my last one.

The next individual is not a for resident. Entertain a motion to wave the rules.

Motion to wave the rules.

Motion wise second. All in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries. Next, we have Steve Nassive. Subject matter community utilities. You have three minutes. Mr.

Nassive.

What was the subject matter?

Community community utilities.

All right, your time's up.

Thank you. Uh, I guess resident is a is a is a you know, that's a very funny uh definition because I actually do live in Fall River most of the time. I sleep in Berkeley. Uh, it doesn't make me a resident. I do own a company. What I am interested in to tell you about today is we've got a problem here in uh the region. We've got hundreds of millions of dollars coming down the pike for

sewer plant upgrades. Uh last night I had a meeting in Somerset where they're a where they're ready to decide on what they want to do with their plant. Why is that? Germaine to Fall River. I was there with Paul Furlin. We've been collaborating quite a lot. We've held several meetings over there because we're trying to get some impetus, some movement going on bonafide dialogue for

a regionalization of this problem. They have a 100 plus million dollar problem there. You got a 200 plus million dollar problem here. Problem meaning investment. There's only one way to go in my mind. We've gone over it already.

Spent a lot of time on it. I'm not going to adjudicate it here. I'd love to come back and talk to you about it in more detail. I'll talk to you on the phone.

Uh you'll hang up on me because I never hang up. I'm going to be very tough with this three minutes, Joe. Make sure I don't overdo it. But I know Paul is coming tonight to give you an update on what's been happening. Uh a a good uh result from the from the from the city council. Uh looking forward to promoting this would be nice to help this dialogue stay fruitful. Uh I'm there's heavy

lifting to be done. Hundreds of millions of dollars being spent. How to share the burden is not an easy matter. Uh this problem is going to affect the city and the area for the next 80 years. We already know how bad decisions in this city could linger. We had a landfill that used to be I have all the capacity in the world. Somebody decided to give it away. And now you guys keep talking

about trash bags and trash bags and trash bags. So things do linger for decades. So let's take our time and spend a little bit of time here and some energy trying to get a solution to hundreds of millions of dollar problem and that's just investment as you know things happen. There's yearly costs. So I'm a proponent of it. I've gone down the road on it a little bit but we need

some awareness because a lot of people you talk to aren't even aware this is going to happen but it's going to happen. And uh that's what I came to to ask for your consideration when you hear Paul's update that we'd like to have some positive uh statement, resolution, something from the city council here to get this thing going in a positive direction and get the dialogue moving. Believe me, there's

heavy lifting left to be done.

15 seconds.

Thank you, Joe. But, uh, that's, uh, that's really all I came to say and, uh, hopefully we'll be able to talk to you more definitive ways about it going forward.

Thank you very much for listening. Have a great evening, Steve.

Thank you.

Thank you.

That item number two is a resolution convene with the city administrator, community utility.

of util community utilities to discuss the potential environmental public safety and financial benefits that could generated by providing community utility services to nearby municipalities. It was adopted August 12th, 2025. Want to come down, Mr. Fen?

We can hold discussion in table 3.

Right in the middle.

All right, councilors. Thank you very much.

Please give your name and what department you're with and for the record for people at home who know who we're talking to.

Yep. So, uh, I'm Paul Furland. I'm the administrator of community utilities for the city of Fall Rivera.

Mike Dion, uh, interim city administrator and director of community development.

So, councilors, thank you very much. Uh, I'd like to thank, uh, councelor Hop for filing this resolution. I know something that we always talk about uh a lot and uh you know I talked to you guys independently. We talk about it during budget times and hearing times is uh regionalization and how to be able to help out our residents uh and other residents uh around this whole area. We

all know uh there's a cost to be able to treat our wastewater as well as our water. We currently have uh intermunicipal agreements with a couple of communities around us. Freetown, Westport, uh Tibetan, Rhode Island, where we sell them water uh and we take their waste water uh and it goes to our plant down at uh down on Bay Street. So, one thing that uh I've been talking with for a number of years uh is Somerset.

So, Somerset, we have a pipe that goes underneath the river to supply them water. Uh that pipe was used back in the 70s um before Somerset had a larger water plant to be able to supplement water supply to the power plants that were using it for cooling. So that went from Fall River uh over to Somerset. Uh back in 2019, I started with a water regionalization study. We were able to

get a uh we were able to get an MVP grant through the state to be able to fund a study to show how Fall River could potentially connect uh with Somerset, Swansea, uh Dy and to be able to provide them water either on a regular basis or uh on an emergency basis. uh and also if we were ever in trouble and needed to get uh supplemented from Somerset, whether that

pipe was still viable uh and and what the viability was uh of that. Kind of around that same time, Somerset uh released a re a uh facilities plan showing uh you know, kind of going through their plant. Their plant uh is a older plant s certain 1970s uh which has been in operation um and has had upgrades over the year but needs some major upgrades. Um time passed along right around a little while ago

maybe year or two ago uh they were issued a draft nipes permit. Actually it was right around ours back in January 24. uh they worked through uh and they accepted that nifty's permit which has nitrogen limits in it. Um that requires them to do a major upgrade of their plant. They're looking at uh potentially rebuilding their plant. Uh I've been talking with them since uh 2020 about uh you know rather than

rebuilding your plant, let's talk about a regionalization. uh how that regionalization would would be structured, how it would come about are two different uh two different things, you know. So, are we looking for an intermunicipal agreement with them where they just send us their wastewater uh and they pay us for the waste water, the amount of waste water they send us, we treat it uh at our plant. Do we look

more at uh a larger regionalization of taking uh some of our infrastructure, some of their infrastructure uh making a larger district or a regional district uh that that manages that portion of it uh with individual collection systems.

So there's a lot of different ways to uh to skin this cat. Um, one of the things Somerset went through, they looked at uh they part of their nippy's permit was to uh hire a consultant to do a regionalization study. Um, they did uh hire a consultant uh Reich Pierce who released a draft report back in May, I believe it was May or June. They had a presentation on that. Uh they issued

that draft report. Um it was uh it was lacking in a lot of things. Uh I provided I believe it was about an eight-page letter uh to uh the Somerset uh the Somerset Water and Sewer Commission. Um I CCed the council on it as well as other members of the city just to uh let you know what was going on. There was a lot of uh bad assumptions that were made in that

report about Fall River, about our capacity to be able to take their wastewater, about uh our uh our ability to be able to uh treat their waste water at our plant, convey it to our plant through our system, uh and things like that. Uh they went through, they revised that draft report. They've uh just issued a second draft report uh that they had a presentation on uh last week.

Uh so in between that time frame of uh of June and now uh I was invited to a Somerset uh water and sewer commission meeting which I attended. Uh had conversations with the board at that meeting. Uh and what I've been telling them is that we really need to be able to sit down at the table and figure out how we want to move forward. What it comes down to for them, they're going to

be adding on a lot of debt moving forward. If they uh decide to stay with their own plan and not go to a regional plant, they're going to be adding on a lot of cost. Is it cheaper for them just to uh take a smaller cost, capital cost, turn their wastewater treatment plant into a pump station, directional drill underneath the river, go into uh our system, whether it be uh our main

interceptor drain, or whether it be directly into our cso tunnel, uh convey it to our plant and then uh be able to treat it at our plant. Our plant has the capacity to be able to handle uh we send we're treating roughly about 22 million gallons a day right now. Our permitted capacity is 30.9. Uh their full buildout including taking uh Swansea and Dyon into them is estimated at 4.2 million

gallons a day. Uh so we have the capacity within our plant to be able to uh to take their uh take their waste.

you know, um, one of the public, uh, one of the citizens input people talked about, um, talked about being being able to, uh, you know, wanted to talk to the council and be able to explain to you what's going on and hopefully have you help us, uh, in this fight, you know, and I've said it right to the town of of Somerset. I don't know, you know, what's going to be the best decision for them.

I don't know uh financially if it's going to be uh cheaper for them to build their new plant or uh to send it to to us. I I can't say specifically right now uh cuz we haven't been able to sit down and figure out what how we want to structure a deal if we want to structure a deal and how we want to move forward.

you know, that takes real u financial analysis from them on uh their impacts, their improvements that are needed, uh what their rate impact in the future is going to be. Uh and then it also takes us to be able to sit down. We're prepared to do that. I I feel that I'm prepared to do that to sit down with them. I've told them many of times that we're prepared, willing, and able to sit

down with them, talk to them, and work our way through. we might be able to get through and we might be able to move this forward or they may have to move forward on their own. Um that's really what it comes down to. But without coming down to uh definitive numbers how an agreement would be structured uh and how to move forward um it's tough and it it you know people say well how come you

just don't do that? I I can't sit at the table and negotiate with myself on what they what they're going to want or what they're going to agree to. they need to be at that table, too. And I just don't feel that we've got I've gotten that from them yet. So, I kind of talked about a lot of different things, the different uh the different uh ways that it could be

structured. Again, I've been in front of their their board uh invited. Uh I've been to their public meetings. There is a uh there is a public group uh in Somerset uh that has started uh and is trying to bring this uh this to light.

Um but they they do have permit requirements uh on their NIP permit. So they have deadlines that they need to meet uh moving forward. But again, I think uh if an expedited process was moved forward to be able to sit down with them and figure out whether some whether an agreement could be reached to move forward, I think it'd be beneficial. You know, and it's tough.

I'm sitting here as the administrator of community utilities for the city of Fall River. Uh I work for the residents of Fall River. Um, but I think this can benefit everybody. You know, being able to take and be, you know, to have two separate plants across the way from each other that both make widgets. Um, and this one's making half the amount of widgets as this plant, but this plant

could make all the widgets of this plant. Why wouldn't you just take and, you know, have one plant to make all of them? That's kind of what we're looking at here. It's it's it's, I think, an overall economic savings in the long run. uh en environmental benefit I feel getting rid of a discharge into uh into the Tatan River it moves it up to the bay there's a lot of technical stuff

with the flushing of waste water out of and how it goes out of the out the rivers and stuff like that but overall I think it's an an environmental benefit uh for everybody uh and we're not the first ones to to look at this you look at MWR uh Mass Water Resources Association uh they take 43 communities Uh they have a large plant in Boston Harbor called Deer Island and there's 43

communities that run all the way pretty much down the Mass Pike that feed into MWR. They buy water from MWR. Uh and it's all treated in a centralized location. Uh you have Springfield.

Springfield water and sewer uh supplies water and takes waste water from a number of communities uh in and around that area. So this regionalization isn't uh isn't a new thing. It's not it's not a new idea. other areas of the country.

This is this is huge and taken off and uh it's it's the way to be able to move forward. Um in the Northeast here, you don't see it too too much. Everybody kind of likes to live in their own silo.

Everybody likes to have their own plant and have their uh their own staff and do their own things. But uh but again, you know, I know it's tough because you guys are the legislative body. you guys are the ones that approve the laws, make the make make the ordinances uh for the city of Fall River. So, uh you don't do day-to-day operations, but again, I wanted to bring this to the council's

attention, be able to answer any questions that you have that I have answers for, uh and hopefully be able to uh employ you to help us move forward with this.

Thank you, Council C1, Council Gadim.

Thank you, Mr. President. Um Mr. Mr.

Ferlin, first of all, thank you for, you know, thinking outside the box. I think long term moving forward, uh, when we start talking about local government, the only way to, you know, provide significant savings to, uh, taxpayers is to to do regionalization, and we need to do a little bit more of that. So, number one, I applaud you for that. I just have a couple of questions. So, do we still

service Somerset with water?

Uh, we do not. We have not serviced them since uh we haven't flowed water uh commercially through that pipe since the 80s. We have the ability to do it. Um right now Somerset has a surplus of water since the power plant uh has closed down.

So do you know what I guess where's that pipe located and then do you know the condition of the pipe?

Yeah. So back in 2019 when we did the uh when we did the regionalization study, one of the things was we live livened that pipe back up. We pressure tested it. We flow tested it. make sure it was still viable. Uh so it runs pretty much from uh the old Coca-Cola plant right in that area directly across the street uh across the river uh to Moni the old Money's parking lot.

Okay. Um you had talked about capacity uh so we we've have the capacity. Would the capacity still be available uh given if there was any growth in the uh bio park or industrial park in the Route 79 corridor?

Yeah. No, we we we have the capacity.

Um, you know, again, we're we're averaging about 22 MGD that we treat down at our plant. Uh, with with reductions in CSO, we know we're going to have to do more sewer separation, reduction of INI in the future. So, that opens up more capacity. Uh, I'm not worried about capacity or being able to meet our permit or going over our capacity at a wastewater plant. That's not an issue.

Okay. even with any potential future growth or anything like that that obviously we can't anticipate for right now. But I just don't want to be in a situation, you know, 101 15 years later saying, "Oh, we have we're missing an opportunity because we just don't have the capacity to be able to either provide water or um you know, our sewer wastewater treatment."

Yeah, without a doubt. No, I don't I don't feel that we'd be uh that we'd be doing that at any point.

So, can you just and and I heard everything you said. So can you talk a little bit about I guess what efficiencies are gained or what's the benefits for us taking on or being the regional hub for the other communities and the processing of the wastewater.

Yeah. So you know I've been in front of this council many times about staffing issues more on the water side because those are our municipal employees. Um on the wastewater side we deal with the same exact issues but it's our own M contractor that deals with that right now in Somerset. Um, as far as I know, they were they're down a plant manager.

They're down uh they're second in in charge over there uh to run their system. They've uh they've outsourced uh those jobs. So, this whole entire field, the water and wastewater field, they kind of uh run together. The staffing within those fields is not getting uh is not getting more plentiful. Um there's great programs out there. plug PCC has one and uh other other community other

areas but uh you know so if anybody wants to go into the field they can u but I think that's one of the big efficiencies you're cutting down on the number of employees uh that's needed over there you know our employee the u on&m contractor that we have at the plant you really don't need to increase the uh amount of people that we have down there you know you think about it

and you look at it so we have about 22 2,000 customers uh for for wastewater with within our system. Uh Somerset has about 7,000 customers.

If you can break that down where you're going um and spreading the same amount of money for plant upgrades and different things, um rather than spending spreading it over 22,000 customers, you're spreading it over 30,000 customers. That's where your savings uh that's where your savings really starts to show.

So your staffing levels don't need to increase uh for the treatment of the wastewater additional volume coming in or anything like that. So the efficiency obviously is just going to be gained because you're spreading like you just mentioned spreading the cost to the right payers. Yeah, exactly. You know, the things that increase, you know, chemical in usage would increase a bit because of the more flow, electricity

increase because of additional, you know, pumps being uh needed to run longer, but uh other than that, but again, you're going to be capturing that through rates coming in from the other communities and then obviously correct.

Um total operating budget would be spread out amongst I would assume all the communities. So, you're saying you're not getting any traction from currently from Somerset. Is that just, you know, they they went back they did their draft they have their second draft study out right now. They had a presentation last week on that second draft study. I still feel there's a lot of errors and there's a lot of um

there's a lot of uh incorrect assumptions within there. uh and they really haven't drilled it t down to uh what the financial breakdown would be to regionalize or to independently uh construct there.

Yeah.

So I I you've said it I think the biggest hurdle is is control right. So I I think the fact that um you know the communities who are not going to be controlling uh the operation tend to be less reluctant to come in there but if if there is a significant cost savings I I think it would make sense to do that.

So assuming that we can I guess convince them that it probably makes sense. Is there I guess I'm not familiar with and you just talked about Boston. So I'm assuming that Boston goes through uh the river. Is that to get the waste water?

So is there's piping under the water and things like that. Has that been tested before?

Yeah, they they have they have lodge tunnels that go from the land. Deer Island is actually an island in Boston Harbor that is their treatment facility.

So there are pipes that go underneath go over you know over in Rhode Island you have uh uh East Providence actually flows to uh you know flows their water and again it's it's we used to send water over uh you know and take uh you know so for us to take waste is it's pretty much this the same idea. Um you know we talked about the directional I talked about the directional drilling

underneath. Uh you look back about uh about seven years ago, the CA gas company, they have a line that goes from Fall River uh over to Somerset as well.

That's uh right in the pretty much the uh front of the old Breman Street Bridge and it goes across just to the side of the connects into their system in Somerset on the side of the Breman Street Bridge. They had a leak in that pipe. Uh they had to replace that pipe.

Uh so they brought in directional drilled team um directional drilled underneath the river and ran a new pipe through that sleeve.

So just I guess is there an appetite to cost share the expense for doing that? I mean if if there's if there's a financial savings for the the city I mean to incentivize either Somerset and other communities to to jump on board to just do the cost sharing of the of the pipe. And I guess the second part of that question is um do we know the the cost associated uh with the directional

drilling and and getting the piping through and then also like the long-term maintenance cost associated with that.

Yeah. So so you know the plan that that I laid out and this is real high level um haven't done any engineering studies or anything on this but this is kind of um you know um idea based uh you know you would directional drill underneath.

you'd come in, they would get rid of their wastewater station, turn it into a pump station. Um the what I talked about was two different structures, whether they became a customer through an intermunicipal agreement, so they would pay us, you know, pretty much have a meter at the downline, pay us for how much water they send us. That's that's one option.

That's what we do with uh some of the other communities that we take from.

Now, one of the other options would be kind of take and break off uh you know, potentially take our plant and turn it into a regional plan. So, everybody shares in the cost of the plant.

Everybody shares in the cost of the major conveyance system to the plant. Uh and then each independent community, including Fall River, has their own collection systems that they I thought that's the direction you were going in. So, you were just going to you were just going to take a flat fee. Is that what there's right? There's two separate ways. there's two separate ways that can be doing it. You know, the

regionalization is is something that I've been looking at even more and more lately. Uh and that that does potentially make sense. You know, you take our wastewater treatment plant uh as well as our cso uh tunnel. Um as well as the connecting pipe that goes over uh to Somerset and that all becomes part of the regional backbone uh and regional breakdown. Um and that all gets shared

the the cost shared between between the regional partners. Um you know one of the things is the control that you mentioned um but but I think if you do the regional aspect right component then you have members sitting on as the you know sewer water board and so that they have a seat at the table right obviously reporting to the director and then obviously for river given that for would have a a higher percentage vote

uh given that it's located in the city so yeah exactly exactly like you just said they everybody then would have a seat at the table so that uh you know fall river can't just randomly drive our rates up to collect more money from other communities. You know, um that's that's what people are worried about. You know, you guys know how much you guys sit here and work to keep the rates down. You

guys know how much I work to keep the rates down uh for our residents. Um but other people don't trust that we would continue to do that, you know, and I'm not saying that anybody does or doesn't say that, but that's a thought sometimes in people's mind.

Yeah. So I I support the initial concept associated with this. So if you need anything from my standpoint um you know whether to have discussions with you know somerset or anything like that I'd be more than willing to to sit down with you and and speak to people uh and get a little bit more buy in ter in terms of what the structure actually looks like.

But again I I think this is refreshing something that needs to to take place and I think this is the only way we can provide a significant um you know savings to the to the rateayers. Uh I do have some other questions but I think it's way too early in the this stage of the game to really kind of talk about that. Uh but with that I'll I'll yield and let my other

colleagues speak on the matter.

Thank you Council H.

Thank you Mr. President. Thanks for coming down Paul and giving us an update on this and um I mean I can't really add add too much to what councelor Kadim said. All I can say is that over our discussions that we've had in the ordinance committee meeting when we talk about rate increases and um what's going to happen in the future for the residents of Fall River um the days that you had Pioneer Finishing and Quaker

Fabric and uh Duro those days are over and those particular companies helped offset the residential water rates. We just don't have that anymore. So I think obviously you what you're doing right now the approach is is is very good. I think it's very positive. But I think I agree with Mr. Gadem. It's refreshing.

Um, and that that's really all I have to add. I mean, I just maybe just a hypothetical situation if uh, you know, I know we're in a very early stages, but how much of an effect would it would it have on on the rates in Fall River? I mean, do you have any idea what that could be?

You know, I know it would be it would it would help the residents. There's no question about it.

Yeah. Again, you know, working for the city of F River, that's what I want to do is be able to help our residents be able to uh help stabilize uh enterprise funds. Uh I I would be in this very early stage. I'd be remiss to really uh talk about talk about numbers. Uh you know, again, it depends on how how an agreement is structured and how how payment between the inter the municipalities are structured and stuff

like that. So, uh, I I would be, uh, a little, but if I didn't see the efficiencies, you know, this has taken a lot of my time, and I got to give credit to some of the residents of Somerset.

You heard uh you heard Steve Steve Nassia who actually isn't even a Somerset resident Berkeley, but he's he he still has has interest in this cuz uh you know he sees the business benefit of being able to share the cost over more customers uh and what it would actually do. So that's fine with me. I yield. Thank you.

Thank you. Council seat fine. Council by S Pereira.

Actually, most of the questions uh that I had have been answered. I think that you know look and see what the cost factor is and if we uh you know if we have the plant here would we have to expand the plant or you said there was enough capacity or would we have to build that somewhere else?

No. So our plant right now again we have enough capacity to be able to take it within our permit within our plan. Uh we're permitted for 30.9 uh million gallons a day. Uh our primary and secondary can actually take up to 50 million gallons a day. On wet weathers, we can treat up to 106 million gallons a day.

And I think people have to know how this sewage is coming in because people in the south end, you know how we get calls in the summertime.

Yes.

So we have to look at that too.

Sometimes it's well it's in the south end and we need to take care of our residents of the south end and they need to be a part of this as well to know what would happen down there that it you know wouldn't be additional trucks coming in or going out or would it be or how many would they limit the time I I just think that the south end then needs to hear about this regionalization as

well like a special uh meeting there to talk about it but I think you're on the right track of I think regionalization is the way to go. Everything is so expensive, people have to pull their resources together. But thank you um for coming down and sharing this. Appreciate it.

Yeah. No, thank you. You know, again, like I said, I'm here to try to get some awareness out there, make people aware of what's going on. I know we haven't really had these specific conversations yet. Um but you know, the tough thing is I can sit at the table all day long if they're not sitting on the other side from us to have a serious substance conversation.

Well, you're starting somewhere. Yep.

always a starting point. So, uh, good luck coming up with, um, whatever you can to save money for the residents of the city. With that, I yield, Mr.

President C4, really quick for me. Uh, we had a couple little brief conversations walking up the steps and different things about this, but uh, I give you a lot of credit for the presentation. Um, uh, so what's the appetite in the other communities because it's going to be a cost to them as well for all the infrastructure, I'm assuming, right? Yeah.

Are are they receptive? Has any communication correspondence dialogue going in with your counterparts and and other communities because that's who it's going to take.

Yeah. So, so as far as the other communities in relation that we already take waste water from the you know, Mr. Finan, what are those communities?

Uh so we take waste water from Freetown, Westport, and uh Tividan, Rhode Island.

Um, so we haven't really had uh any discussions with them yet because we haven't really been able to break down a financial model and how things would be structured. You know, that's definitely something again we take wastewater from them talking if we went with the regionalization. You know, they they may want a seat at the table. They may want to stay with their uh with their current

agreement intermunicipal agreement uh that they have or they may want to join on to the regional and have a seat at the table. So once we figure out if this is could move forward um you know cuz you know the other communities that we take that we take waste water from is a lot less than what Somerset you know would would provide us. You know we naturally would city of Fall River would

be providing the most uh they'd be about 18 to 20% um of the whole entire uh of the whole entire um amount coming down into the wastewater plant. So, uh, you know, we need to get, I think, through this first step, make sure that we have a conversation, see how we want to structure things, and then we'll be able to talk with everybody. You know, I know right now, um, Somerset is, uh, is

looking at an intermunicipal agreement with Swansea to be able to take waste water from Swansea, which the Route 6 corridor has needed wastewater for its development in the future. uh Dyon all the way up to the four corners of Dyon has always looked for it as well as the other communities around us too. Uh Westport has uh has wastewater designed all the way up to 88 and past um you

know they're looking for funding to be able to construct that. Right now, Freetown is doing a feasibility study to bring uh to bring waste water all the way from where they have it now uh all the way down to their which is pretty much a stop and shop facility all the way down into the uh down next to their town hall. Um and then Tibetan just went through a major expansion of bringing on

many more customers uh which they have more phases to do in the future. That's all been taken into consideration with widgets without a doubt. You know, um with the differenti contaminants that are out there, soil conditions, change in title five regulations, you know, a septic system maybe used to cost uh you know, $8,000, $12,000 with septic systems now costing 30, 40, $50,000.

uh with you know annual operational cost having to have a company come out once a year uh every quarter to monitor and uh change filters and stuff like that. Uh it's making it more appealing to tie into a municipal sewer.

Thank you very much. Thank you council hot for the resolution and I yield.

Thank you.

Thank you. Council Phil, I just have one question. Let's say Somerset gets on hot and heavy. They want to do this. How long do you think it'll be before we can get this going? you guys decide right away to do it. We talking three years, five years, two years.

You know, I think the uh you know, if we were able to sit down and start to nail out an agreement and be able to get together, we'd probably be talking about a fiveyear time frame, you know, five to six years till we were fully uh on board. uh that goes directly in line with their uh with what's what the requirements are within their nifties permit for nitrogen rel.

All right. Thanks for that. Appreciate it. You know, you know what they say about Somerset, right?

Somerset and some are not with that. Thank you for coming down, Mr. Finland. I appreciate it. Thank you for your input, Mr. Dion. It was wonderful.

Thanks, guys. No problem. Thanks, guys.

Appreciate it.

That was a great dad joke. That was great.

Item number three is a transfer appropriation in accordance with the provisions of chapter 44 section 32 of the Massachusetts general laws. I recommend final appropriation to the honorable body that the sum of $271,66753 being the same as hereby appropriated to EMS salaries from the EMS enterprise fund receipts.

Count seats one count.

Oh, thank you.

Did you say one? Did I move?

I'm sorry.

Sorry. I gota This is a tough seat.

I did say one.

I think it's six, but I'd like to sit next to council.

I was very confused.

It's all right. Thank you.

Sorry, but I had the the right counselor.

That's all that matters. Thank you, Mr.

President.

I've got the hair.

Can everyone who just came to the table please give your name and what department you went so people at home will know who we're talking to?

Emily Arpi, finance.

Mike Dion, uh, interimm city administrator and director of community development.

Nick Meline, director of human resources.

Thank you, Mr. President. Um, so I have a couple questions with regards to this, but before I get into the financial aspects of the appropriation, um, I want to just kind of go backwards a little bit, right? Um I I I think it was in 2016 that this very city council had a discussion uh under the prior administration that spoke to the fact that we wanted to uh see a huge increase

um and at that time deservingly so certainly of over 11% for our EMS for EMS it was prior to I think the contracts the MIH contracts as important as they are today it was prior to your leadership chief correct obviously Um that was the con two contracts ago.

Correct.

Correct.

So the council and the administration at that time awarded an 11% increase. Is that correct? Is that the number that you recall?

I wouldn't know the exact number.

I couldn't give you that number back to 2016. I could go back to 22.

All right. So well okay fair enough. In 2022 then um because it was six 2016 to 2022, right?

I'm trying to understand the economics from my standpoint.

You also saw a what over 10% increase?

Yes.

All right. Broken out over how many years?

Um so it was actually in FY20 two it was around 16 17%.

Okay. And I don't know what year it was if it was in 2016 or 2022. I I forget.

2022. I think it was 16. That was the time that we moved them over to a group four insurance. Correct.

Was 16. So that was uh we moved over to group four in Could you please speak to the microphone so we could hear you? Thank you.

It was the end of the um it was 2018.

It was 18. Okay. So EMS is in um so in group four now and over the last couple contracts that they had and I believe they needed that money at that time. That was probably the highest increase that a city has given a collective bargaining unit after they moved out of Asme. Correct. But is that fair based on the analysis that you've done?

I think we may be referring to the same contract because I'm pretty sure that the huge pay increase was included in the contract where we got the group four retirement. I think maybe it was. But at the end of the day, let's just we can summarize by saying EMS deservingly so uh saw a a 10 or 11% maybe did you say 16% increase in 2022 and I recall at that time this may have

been under when EMS was under the fire department. I believe the then chief came before this council and said they were having a very hard time hiring paramedics. They were losing paramedics to other cities and towns and that was what we were told that we needed to make sure that we took care of the men and women in that public safety department.

And I want the I want to remind everybody that this council at that time in 1816 and all throughout my time here has supported a a huge increase. Now what before us tonight are is a three-year increase. Two and a half, two and a half and three and a half. Two and a half. Correct.

No. So it's two and a half across the board. Um and then there are additional modifiers after that. So two and a half per year, an additional three and a half% to community paramedics.

How many years?

Three years.

Three years. Okay.

An additional three and a half% to the executive administrative assistant.

Uh an exe an additional 3 and a half% to the administrative MIH scheduling coordinator.

and then an additional three and a half% for hours worked on the IFT.

All right. I want to know a little bit about that because um so if are you talk does that mean for people who aren't watching and maybe people here don't understand are you is that the contract with South Coast for the trans transports?

So there are two different um dynamics of EMTs and paramedics. The paramedics that do the interface transfers, the ones that do the high acuity hospital to hospital transfers have a special skill set. So they can take care of patients that are on ventilators. They take care of IV um IV infusions. They have a larger scope of practice where they can take patients with blood running and

medications running. So their skill set is very defined. There is a shortage. I I would like to preface with the state of Massachusetts has a shortage of transfer companies or ambulances that are capable of performing the work that we're currently doing. I know there's some um trepidation with the Charlton contract and the St. An's contract. But what it does is that it allows the

community hospitals and our patients in Fall River and our residents of Fall River to get those higher acuity ambulances with that specialized skill set within the city of Fall River.

I have no trepidation with that at all whatsoever. The only trepidation I have is if we're shutting down any rescues to do transports. That's the concern that I have. You know, and I want and and I'm that's why I'm asking I'm not trying to get operational with you right now. I get it. What what I'm trying to find out is when you're asking for three and a half percent increase for the trans transfers

what the employees fully prepared. I actually can tell you without any equivocal without a doubt that there has never been a 911 truck that has gone on an interfacility transfer or transferred outside of the city. We have two patients in the city of Fall River that are high high-tech kids that high h have high acuity illnesses that are only treated at a outside hospital. So I think maybe two

times we had a kid that needed to go transfer to Dana Farber because that's where they were being treated.

They activated 911.

We actually make there we actually call medical control to see if we have the ability to take that child to where they need to go and we'll do that. It's only on an occasion. But we never take a 911 medical rescue and send them on into facility transfer. It's against the CMRs. We can't do it.

Okay. So then what do you have two separate departments when it comes to rescue and transports? Is it two? So do you have like x amount of employees here and x amount of employees here?

We do. And they're assigned to separate areas.

So how many people are in uh responsible or uh employees assigned to the MIH transports?

38.

That's a trick question. I know that we have eight people assigned to the five medical rescues, so that's 40. And um we have currently have five trucks on the IFT side, but they don't all work 24-hour shifts. They work 10our shifts.

We we do peak time, so we have more coverage. So, not all those trucks work the same hours. So, I wouldn't have that answer right off the top of my head. I apologize.

That's okay. But I guess but I guess what I'm trying to understand is the inadequacy, if there even is one, between an increase of a of two and a half% to your normal EMS um paramedics that are handling 911 calls, but a 3 and a half% increase to those that are uh doing transports from Charlton or St.

An's to anywhere else. Why? What went into that?

It's a Can I get a point of information?

It's two and a half is it? Would you say it was two across two and a half?

Two and a half across the board and then additional three and a half% on top of the two and a half the hours worked on the IF.

So that the IF is 6% increase.

Right.

So we have some um what we've been doing is we have some very young paramedics in where we've um hired some very young paramedics or paramedics that have graduated from our EMT school. We offer um there's an EMT school uh paramedic school in the area that offers two scholarships a year. So what we'll do is we'll send one of those kids from F River that's graduated from our EMT school or whatever and we send them

paramedic school and then when they get out of school they're like a brand new paramedic with no experience. So what they'll do is they'll work one shift on the IFT side and one shift on the 911 side. So they get that broad experience on both sides. It's their it's that's what their schedule is. There one shift on 911, one shift on IFT. But the knowledge base on the IF side is greater

than it is. Trust me. Uh because of the patients that they take. They take the sickest of the sick from the hospital with multiple infusions running um uh brain bleeds, stroke, trauma, sick kids.

They take the probably the sickest population that we see out of the hospitals to take them to a level of higher accurity.

Interesting. Well, thank you for that. I didn't know that and I appreciate the education. So, I understand the the operational aspect of it. I want to pivot a little bit to the financial aspect of this, right? Um I recall I wasn't here um an increase in a specific public safety department. You weren't here either.

um that I believe and I still maintain the position a huge increase without any kind of financial analysis done and it has had an a triple impact effect on the city's ability to collect a bargain even though we don't collect a bargain. You guys do that. uh it has had a financial implication more than was told to the city council by that then finance team and and and now I believe there was we

were talking about several hundred thousands of dollars that has impacted reopening negotiations up with other collective bargaining units and it has had a trickle down effect not and I'm not talking about Reagan trickle down economics I'm talking about it has had a trickle down effect on how things have operated from your executive branch's standpoint from a financial standpoint point is the city able incapable of

affording the increases that we're seeing for this department at this time with the understanding that there's a strong if the if the EMS enterprise account remains within EMS and it doesn't go to the general fund.

Yes. Um we absolutely can I have um kind of increased the way that the analysis is done um in a lot more detail than I think I have previously come across here. So I I do have a lot more comfort with these numbers and the amounts that are coming into it. So um it is on average from people's current salary today before the CBA to the end of the

CBA in um 2028 it's an average of a 9% increase over the three-year period. So it's it is much more manageable than it sounds when you keep saying two and a half three and a half. It sounds like it's compounding a lot more than the reality of it is. Oh, what is the financial dollar amount each fiscal year for the next three years?

Um, that was included in here. I don't have the numbers off top of my head.

Hold on.

I did um I did print out I did make a copy of our 22 to 25 financial forecast of what we've done over the percentage increases and the So, for for FY26, it's a $271,000 increase. Um, which is what is before you tonight for the transfer. Um FY27 it's an additional 280,000 and then FY28 it's an additional 128,000. So the total over the three is 680 and your ability to collect a bargaining

with other units is not going to be impacted by such a high increase 6 and a half%. I mean if you if you do look through some of the MOA there are concessions that the EMS unit did do um one is in the form of three personal days are coming back to the city. So now those are shifts that we no longer have to backfill through overtime throughout the year. So there there are offsets

there. There are language changes to um sick leave. So that will help us. Um sick leave had been an issue for a little bit throughout the department.

There's a lot of burnout in that department. So, some of the concessions made on the sick leave language will keep people at work. Obviously, if they're sick, we don't want them at work, but there are things that encourage them to to be at work. So, we view have a lot of value. We see a lot of value in those concessions that came back to us.

Okay.

I will say they're not included in the costs that are given to you just because they are hard to concretely, you know, calculate exactly what will come back in them. So the numbers that are given to you are almost I'm going to say worst case scenario because as some of those savings start to be realized it'll adjust.

All right. So final question. Take me behind the curtain a little bit when it comes to your financial analysis that was done to determine that if this is a long this is sustainable. I mean we're often asked we're often being told you're coming down we're not going to be able to afford this. We can't see these increases year over year time over time.

But consistently consistently we are coming down with increases from the budgets perspective and collective bargaining units. So the biggest the biggest difference I'm going to say from most of those statements is going to be that this is in the enterprise fund that is currently growing um rapidly with revenue. So that's really where this side of it becomes affordable. You're right. When we get into something within

the general fund, it's going to be a different conversation of affordability.

Um but at this point in time, you know, this enterprise fund is is more than self- sustaining at this point. um the revenues that we are going into the budget with um that we went into the budget with for FY26 were already exceeded for FY25. So, and that was with some of the contracts not being fully realized. So, it it is only going to increase. So, we're anticipating, you know, more than enough revenue to cover

these costs over the next three years.

In the case that a mayor um or a finance team decides to take the enterprise account and put it to the general fund for revenue perspectives within the next three years, does a city have the ability to pay the increases in those upcoming fiscal years?

As long as the revenue continues to come in the same way, regardless of whether it's an enterprise fund or general fund, it it should be the same. The What happens if this How long is this uh Char I'm sorry to interrupt you. How long is this Charlton South Coast contract good until? We have um the contract we have is for three years and it's renewable after um those three years if we decide.

So what year does it expire? What fiscal year does it?

We're in it started in October of last year. So we're completing our first year.

So you have until fiscal year 2028 until the end of year. prepared a document with our our four-year forecast year-over-year of what how our revenue has increased and proceeded since we started the IFT in 2022 h how it we we just were doing dabbling in taking our own patients home and then we m more formalized. So I went to 2022 and looked at the revenue that we made year-over-year so that you would have

some of idea of what that looks like.

I've seen the increases. I hear you. I just wanted to make sure saying like the we made 38 38% over since the beginning of 2022 when we started we've made we've actually seen an increase of 38% since and what and just what happens if for some reason the council Yeah, I was going to say part of this is that the three and a half% is only when they're performing those services. So if

we eliminate those contracts and stop performing those services that cost of that three and a half% also will go away at the same time.

What happens though if the council does not fund this increase um in terms of you from a management perspective? What impact do you think it's going to have?

We're going to have an appropriation deficit if the if the contract is approved and these pay rates go in.

Yeah. Yeah. We wouldn't approve it.

Right.

But that's I mean that's the only impact.

Asking me what happens if the three and a half% I think six. Yes.

What happens is I guess we go back to negotiations right?

I don't actually know. I mean, you asking operationally what this does to to long term. I mean, so part of this is um the market outside of here for private ambulance services and being competitive with them and then getting employees who, you know, want to perform these services. It's a different type of work. It's um I don't want to say hardware, it's just a different type of work that the chief said.

Again, there's more. It's a different type of care. So, um, you know, you need to get the right people on those trucks.

And we've had to add a lot of staff to keep up with this, to keep up with this growth, and again, you need the right people. So, right now, we're in a good place staffing wise. There are people that want to come here. We have a bit of a waiting list of of people that want to come here. We're not seeing the same amount of uh employees leaving here that

we have in the past. So, so we're in a pretty good place, but we want to encourage getting the best providers.

When you take other cities and towns like New Bedford, Brockton, Taton for example, how does our paramedics u compare in terms of um yearly salary in comparison to other cities and towns?

I Taton is run by their town. They're the it's a hard hard nut to crack because Brockton, Taton, all the other area cities and towns that are the same as our size are all contracted out to private services.

Are we the only one? community.

New Bedford's also in New Bedford, but New Bedford is just starting. We're We're trying to help facilitate them through trying to get this.

But But are we pay are we paying My question is are we paying more for a paramedic than New Bedford is?

I think it's I think it's equivalent.

Pretty I would have to ask for sure.

Did you guys do this analysis when you were doing your collection?

I did not compare to New Bedford.

Did you compare to anybody other municipalities? No. So then what do you usually how do you determine these prices then from we look at what the market is typically on the private side um because of the type of work that's being done it compares outside there and that's who your main competitors are for getting employees is private side on the is that is that common when you collective have collective bargain

negotiations you don't look you don't look at what comparable communities Totten Brockton all the area sounding communities their 911 side and their IF side are bro both private the the fire department.

Yeah. Okay. But that's them. But I'm just I'm curious like there's is are we the only municipality in the Commonwealth that is public.

I actually talked to Boston EMS this week and um their pay scale is um a little bit more than ours. We did talk about the enterprise fund. Their um their revenue stream covers 75% of their budget. The city pitches in 25% of their budget. um they're the only other ones that um I know that would be comparable.

Worcester is a hospital-based service, so all the bigger municipalities that we could compare ourselves to are not run by a municipality.

All right, I'm going to yield so my colleagues can speak, but I'm just I need to hear support here. I need to be cons, you know, convinced because, you know, 11 uh 16% in 2022, 6% here.

There's going to need to be a time where we say we cannot continue to have these increases. And I'm not, this isn't just with EMS. I'm talking about generally speaking all across the board. But I'm just telling you, if this gets passed, you're opening up the opportunity for your fire, for police, for fire, your other collective bargaining units. Ask me to also be asking for some some equal

increases. Now granted, you know, EMS is doing a little different things in police and fire and vice versa, but I I I I remember that police situation and it's come back to haunt the city more than one occasion. And we said we can afford it, we can afford it, but then when it opens up other units that may not have a enterprise account, it impacts the community and it and and there's a financial ramification for it

and I'd like to hear about that more. So I yield for now, Mr. President.

Thank you, Council. Councel C1. Council, did you have your hand up?

I did. Thank you, Mr. President. Um just quickly on the uh appropriation order. So typically when we get the enterprise funds uh we do see the revenue breakdown. So this year we didn't see any of the revenue breakdown.

I know water and sewer sent it down.

Well, at least that's in here. So when I'm looking at the appropriation analysis, are we It looks like the EMS revenues are at $16.2 million. And we're saying with the transfer the revenues are going to go up by 271,000 which is the request going to 16.5 and then subsequently the um EMS salaries are going up from 9.8 million to 10.1 million. So I understand the expense side are we have we not appropriated or budgeted

all the revenues coming in to EMS like so because we're not it doesn't seem like you're pulling it from a stabilization account. I'm just trying to figure out we're we're saying that um enough. So from the time that we submitted the budget in March to now, we obviously have more FY25 data of what the reality is. And so that's where we know now that there is more room um that

will come in in the with the revenues.

You don't see the revenues um on the appropriation order the same way you do with water sewer because you're not setting those rates for the revenues. So it it's kind of just the call volume that comes in and what we end up getting with that consistency. So, we look back at data in that way. Um, and that's where we're seeing the um $17 million. I think in the quarter 4 book that we did

last month, last meeting, um, it showed the $17 million in revenue for EMS for FY25. So, that's where our comfort level is with being able to hit the 16.5 million.

So, is this the budget? Was that this was April 22nd, the appropriation So I stand corrected. The fees the fees are here. It's just not in the the operating. So So you have $14.6 million in fees. So you're was the assumption at the time that you built the budget that that was 100% of what we anticipated for for fees coming in or did you only take 80% of of what we anticipate for?

No, that was that was close to what we anticipated at the time. But again when we were building the budget it was like March April data. So we were missing several months and that contract started in October. So we were really many more months than even that behind in you know receiving that those payments at that point in time to know what would actualize.

So what's before us? Is it a transfer or an appropriation?

It's technically an appropriation.

All right. Maybe that's why I was getting confused. I thought I thought it was a transfer. Yeah.

Okay.

Um, so I guess my my first official question is the organizational flowchart. So I'm just trying to get an understanding of how EMS is operating.

So we have the paramedics and some basics that are running emergency medical services, 911 calls, right? So then we have your and I guess can I take a step back? So, I know the MOA has MIH and if I would just suggest, and I know it's in the MOA, but for the collective bargaining agreement, if you can kind of spell that out because anybody getting the document who's not familiar with MIH or if

I actually put together, remember I told you I had started working on my five-year plan I put together. It's it's really in the infasy stages, but I do have something I can give to you that has a descriptive function of all No, no. I I just I'm just saying spell spell it out completely because I I think the it's it's a public document.

So somebody going through it and trying to read the collective bargaining and then you see and the reference is MI they don't know that it's a mobile integrated health right or if you know into facility transfers. So just to make sure that anybody that's reading it understands exactly what it's applying the document will be cleaned up once.

Yeah.

Um so so from my standpoint I'm trying to figure out exactly what the organizational flowchart looks like. So we we separate. So we have subdivisions in EMS.

So we have the um people that strictly work the 911 frontline trucks.

Then we have people that work strictly the IFT trucks. And what we do is with our newer paramedics to give them the cross trainining to be able to function on both sides. They'll work one shift on IFT, one shift on 911, and when there's a permanent opening on the 911 side, they can bid over. A lot of the younger paramedics want to do the the 911. They want to do the cool stuff. So, they'll

bid over to those 911 spots, but they start out on the IF side and get seasoned on the IF side and then will bid when there's an opening on the 911 side.

There are people that come here just to work on the IF side. I have paramedics that come here that strictly want to do IF transfers. That's all they want to do. They love it. No, I I guess I recognize that it just from my from my standpoint, the efficiency doesn't make sense to me, right? So, I mean, we I'm looking at the ARG chat, right? So, this is the AR chat that was submitted to us.

So, um and I won't get into all the other Well, I guess I will. Um so, captain of community maintenance, you got the paramedics and the EMTs. So, I guess those are the individuals that are doing the captain of community medicine.

Medicine, I'm sorry. What' I say?

Maintenance.

I'm sorry. Medicine, not maintenance.

Sorry. Um, so you have the paramedics and the EMT. So that's ITF.

That's IF. Yes.

I mean, I if we have operations, which would be your 911.

Why Why are we breaking it down? Why is is there a separate training in order to be in?

There is if you get your paramedic certification, I always thought a paramedic is a paramedic.

Oh, there is actually community paramedic training. You have an extended medication list. You have to learn how to transfer blood. There's uh ventilator training. There's all kinds of different Yes. It's in order for you to be able to perform the function of an inter facility med interfacility transfer medic. There's extended education and you get certified as a inter facility.

You have to have that in order to be able to to be on an inter facility truck to perform an inter facility transfer.

You have to have that special interfacility transfer training.

It's not a special certification. It's an additional training. just an additional training. But any everybody could have that training. We could we could require all our paramedics to have that training.

You could.

So I guess I guess that's what I'm So paramedic is still certified as a paramedic. So there's no you know when we had the EMTs it was EMT basic. There was um I forget what it was. Advanced intermediate, right? So they had all the different levels of the of the basics and then paramedic is from my understanding is just paramedic. So there's no different levels of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts does

not allow you to work on an IFT transfer truck unless you have had that additional training.

So in terms of staffing though, why would we not require all our paramedics to have the additional training to be on the IFT so that you can cross train?

Like for me to to to have all your folks and then have a subdivision within a department to me doesn't make sense. So when we initially started doing the IF work, there was some trepidation with the 911 paramedics. The 911 paramedics that have been here for 10 years or seven years wanted to retain their 911 positions. They have no desire to work on the IFT side at all. So when so we do

use them. So if somebody calls out sick on a 911 truck, we will take a paramedic from the IF side and put them on the 911 truck to if for shifts that we can't fill. We do use them in that capacity.

Am I No, you're not confusing me. I'm just old school, right? So, if I'm an employer and I'm hiring employees, I don't let the employees tell me what they want to do. Right? So, if you want to be a paramedic, you're going to be a paramedic, right? So, you're going to work in 911 and you're going to do IF.

Okay?

You don't come in after we hire you and become a paramedic and say, "I only want to do IFT. I don't want to deal with 911 calls." From my standpoint, EMS, this is what we do. This this is what the department is about, emergency medical services.

I want to clarify the employees they initially had at the initiation of the IFT program. So now paramedics that we hire can be used in either in either place on the IFT side or the 911 side.

They're not limited to just the 911 side.

Okay. I I just And what's the training?

What's what's the hours in terms of if the training to paramedics? How many more hours have they been doing different rounds?

They are they um we do different trainings. We do trainings once a month.

4hour trainings plus I think the IFT training is 24 hours plus um they have to re be retrained with every piece of equipment. So the every year the the vent, the pump, all that stuff has to be retrained on an annual basis.

You're the city administrator, not me.

Um, we'd be we we'd be we'd be having a a completely different discussion. I'll I'll tell you. I just I it's it's like hiring a police officer and saying, "Okay, I only want to be an SRO.

Okay, so we're going to hire you as an SRO. You're not going to be a police officer."

Right? Do Do you see what I'm saying? I I just to me I I don't I don't understand how if there's additional training that's required and if if that's now going to be our book of business how we are not training all our paramedics to be able to perform all the functions right we call we when when we start talking about employees and hiring employees we talk about cross trainining that's the

biggest thing we talk about right we do we do a terrible job of crossraining our employees so if somebody leaves they don't know how to do that person's job and then we're in a situation where we're just sitting here and not doing anything I feel I feel like this whole, you know, being a paramedic versus, you know, the NIH department and all that stuff just to me from a philosophical

standpoint, I I just I I don't see it.

I'm I'm struggling along with my colleague to figure out what that percentage is, right? So, I'm I'm good with the two and a half% over the, you know, the three years. It's the additional, you know, three, three and a half percent that you have in here that I'm trying I'm struggling to understand what the value is in terms of I've got a paramedic who's dealing with 911 calls, right? Very, very traumatic. Extremely

traumatic. You could have a child dying.

You could have, you know, family members dying and and they're constantly going to those calls. But we're saying if you're doing a transfer, you're going to get paid an additional 3%. And and I understand there's additional training and things that are that are needed, but a paramedic is a paramedic. And and from my standpoint, if we hire paramedics, the training should be across the board. And so if we

feel like that, you know, it requires an additional three and a half%, it should be for all paramedics. So then we should be talking about a 6% increase for paramedics and not 3% for this paramedic that's only doing 911 calls and then an additional, you know, 3% for I for these transfers. and and I and I recognize and I understand the transfers and you know everything that goes into the you know

the transfers and things of that nature, but that's just you know from my standpoint where where I'm at with this contract. So uh on page three just in terms of hours of work. So we've been working 24 hours.

Yeah.

So and so what is the implication for this? I know I know there's there was some additional changes. So there's added hours of work for if may vary. MIH coordinators 84 hours of work may vary.

So what is the overtime implication? So unlike police and fire, you know, when you work a 24-hour uh shift, right, you might get 24 on, 24 off, 48 on. Uh so over the cost of the year, they average about 42 hours, you know, a week. So you can pay them. There's there's an exclusion for police and fire. There's no exclusion for EMS. uh with regards to that. So if they're working 48 hours in

in a given week, so that means there's eight hours of overtime that needs to be paid. What what is the implication of that? And and do we really need to be at 24 hours for EMS as opposed to two hours, two two-hour shifts to get the draw on the employees. The 24-hour shifts are important for us because they're in their line of work, they can take shifts at private companies outside of here. So to have

that structured similar to the way that I guess FIRE does it, you you can knock out your block of hours and then you can still do things on the side or pick up overtime shifts through us. So the 24 hours is a draw to attracting employees um to the city. As far as the overtime implications, that's something that we're still looking at right now on the on the additional two hours.

On the additional two hours, I'm sorry, the four hours. Okay.

Well, technically it could be eight if you work a So, what's what's the shift that you're working? 24 on, 24 off.

24 on, 48 hours off. So, you could potentially be working 48 hours. And so, it's an eight hour eight hours, right? I mean, second week could be a little bit less, but I at a minimum, I'm just curious to what that cost would be.

So that hasn't been included in the the cost analysis that we received for the fiscal impact statement, right?

No.

Because at this point in time, that's that hasn't changed to that.

Okay.

And then um I got a couple other questions. I don't I don't know how far I want to go down the road with these, but I I do just want to piggyback on what my colleague had asked and I I think he was going down the line and I I think he clarified it. So there there has been some statements made that um if we are short with staffing for the paramedics that

are serving the 911 calls that trucks are being closed so they're not being filled since July 1st. There's not have been a frontline rescue shutdown in Fall River since July 1st.

Has so in the past has there been?

Well, we had some overtime issues. Um, and we would shut down for an 8 hour period on the overnight, but we have not shut down any trucks since July.

Did we shut down to pull individuals to serve on if because I think that's that's where it's going. I just want to get it on the record if that's the case or not the case. Okay. So there there is no instance where we have uh a 911 rescue that's not been staffed because we've called staff to go do transfers.

Negative.

All right.

And then just I guess on on page seven.

So item M. So it says replace entire paragraph as follows. Any employee hired after after September 1st, 2020 who had previously been assigned to non-emergency rescues shall be subject to transfers and details on non-emergency assignments. Am I reading this that that means that you you do not have the ability to transfer those paramedics who are considered IFT to the 911?

anybody who was hired after 2020 and if they're immediately assigned to a permanent 911 position, then I don't have the ability to move them back to a transfer truck as a permanent assignment.

But that's never a case because anybody who gets hired today is not hired into a permanent 911 position.

Everybody bids to the 911 position. So any new hire will come on the IF side.

So say that again. So if so all the employees if I hire you and I put you on a frontline medical rescue 911, I don't have the ability to transfer you off of that 911 to an IFT truck.

But that's not what this says. This says the opposite. So you hired me as an IF.

You don't have the ability to transfer me to a 911.

No, that was a language.

No, it says replace entire paragraph as follows. Any employee hired after September 1st of 2020 who had previously been assigned to non-emergency rescues, right, shall be subject to transfers and details on non-emergency assignments.

Right. It's a it was a language cleanup.

the old CBA or the current CBA is the it's the exact same line except the last um the few words are instead of uh transfers and details on non-emergency assignments, it's transfers and details to R seven and R8, rescue 7 and rescue 8.

So that was just a housekeeping.

So, do you have language now that allows you to transfer if to 911?

If we're if we have a person who starts on the IFT truck and bids into a 911 position and they don't function well in that position, I have the ability to move them back to an IF truck.

I don't say you can't. They don't. The union doesn't want the ability to be able to take the permanent 911 positions and be able to move them to the IFT side.

And so when you hire I just I just need clarification. So you have separate job descriptions for paramedics.

No, you hire a paramedic. It's just their assignment where they're assigned when they're initially hired.

Tell me what you think. I I want to hear what you have to say.

That's crazy. That's what I think.

Then then clarify it for me so I can fix it.

I I'm confused because you're you're creating you're creating divisions within EMS. But if you're hiring like that language I just read. So you hire a paramedic.

You don't hire a paramedic. I I if paramedic, you hire a paramedic. Right?

That is that the job description.

Correct.

So then if you hire a paramedic, then why do we have language under M that any employee hired after September 1st of 2020 who had previously been assigned to non-emergency rescue shall be subject to transfers and details on non-emergency assignments because that's not a language that I that benefits me. It's language that benefits the No, no, no. I know who it benefits.

That's that's the point. That's why I'm asking.

it doesn't it doesn't benefit the people that are being serviced. Right? So that that's my concern. So my concern is is that we're hiring paramedics and then we're creating a subdivision within EMS specifically to delineate between a 911 call and a transfer. And I've always said that we're we should not be in the business of doing transfers. We got into the business, but now we've created the

subdivision. And then now we're going to pay the people that are doing the transfers more money than we're paying the people that are doing 911 calls. And I still I still would argue that I understand there's additional training, but in terms of I don't know um burnout in terms of mental health, I think there is more of a mental health impact and well-being on 911 calls than than there are on a transfer,

right? Because those individuals I don't want to begrudge either one of my employees. No, no. I'm not trying I'm not trying to I'm not trying to begrudge. What I'm trying to what I'm trying to do is say that from my standpoint, a paramedic is a paramedic for me for because you folks are doing that, right?

So, you've already put more value on I if you you folks did that, not me, right? So, you folks came to us and are basically telling us that if paramedics are valued more than not not appreciated, but are valued more than the 911 paramedics. I'm telling you that they should be on the same level is what I'm saying.

I agree with you, but these are harder to get than these.

They shouldn't be.

They shouldn't be. A paramedic is a paramedic.

Now, you can you can you can say no all you want. I mean, the training is force everybody to go do the training. So, then shut down if shut down if let all these privates go do it.

Right. We're the city of Fall River.

What what have we what business have we been in from EMS for the last 200 years?

Someone needs help and obviously we haven't had 911 for 200 years, but you call 911 and we provide a service. It's never been, hey, I need to be transfer uh transferred from uh St. Ans to Boston or whatever the case may be. That's not the business we were in. We we're in the business now. I'm saying we're hiring paramedics. The training should be across the board. So if if you're going

to be a paramedic in Forever, it's 911 and it's transfers and they should be at the same rate, not varying rates. That's just and and those folks can disagree all they want. That's fine. Um you know, I I I just tell you that that's that's where I stand on on the situation.

Yeah.

So, uh, I guess with that, that's that's where I stand on that. I just I just don't see the additional value that you're asking for. So, with that, I yield.

Thank you, Council Deb. No further question. Council C5.

Yeah, I just had one question. I think uh Chief F you said that from now on as you're hiring the individuals that you hire as paramedics need to have the extra courses um for the F for the IIA the I new paramedics that come in the door um are hired onto the IFT side because and then they would have to wait for an opening because everyone prefers to be

on the 91 side. So they have to wait for an opening to occur in order to bid onto one of those positions.

So when somebody leaves as a 911 on the 911 side, someone could bid then someone bids to get in. Correct.

That correct.

Okay.

I mean, I don't have a problem with us doing transports because I think we often sit here and say, you know, we want to try to bring more money into the city without going into a taxpayers's pocket. And this is doing it and we're getting people in. I I just don't want to see um you know, you your department doing a transfer um or a few transfers in the course of a

day and we have an emergency here and we don't have a 911. That's not that was concerning to me but I believe uh councel Pon asked you that and that is not exactly what's happening and I want to dispel something quickly so that we're all speak a little bit closer to the mic softspoken not much like me you're soft I'm having a hard time I want to dispel something go ahead

so yes it's about revenue and we're we're trying to make revenue for the city I get it it's great big and and we're doing a good job for our department and our my department is is doing a great job, but it was about community. What was happening was we the service that was being used in our local facilities was providing a service that was not optimal. So patients were waiting in the emergency room for 3

hours, 2 hours, an hour and a half to get transferred to where they needed to go, which in turn, you don't think impacts anything, but it impacts our 911 trucks bringing patients in and it causes a backlog there. It causes a backlog in the waiting room. And then we had trauma patients who we're who we can take if they call 911. The hospital can call 911 to get those patients out of

the emergency room, which takes one of our 911 trucks out of service. That's part of the CMR. So, we decided that we were going to try to take care of our own. If we brought the patient in, then we could bring the patient out. That's how it started. And then we ended up providing such a good service that the hospitals wanted to come and get into agreements with us because we were

providing our patients with such a good service. I'll be honest, we get a ton of letters and emails of support from these families when we've taken their family members from one place to another. The other thing we do is we bring patients home to hospice. So our our transfer trucks will take people from the hospital and they'll bring them home and they'll tuck them in for hospice. So,

there's a lot of big community things that happen with within EMS and and I do agree with you. 911 is is is what we're here for. That's our premier service. I I I get it. But there are there are value to the other things that happen within our service, too.

Thank you, Chief Hunts. Thank you for that um that piece of the education that the public can be aware of what else um your department does.

to benefit the community. Um, with that I yield.

There you go. Council C2 comes at the end.

Yeah. Um, can you explain to me um L on page seven squad 12 is to be implemented as an MIHCMS command vehicle.

Um, I know what a command vehicle means in in a lot of situations, but in this situation explain the command vehicle and why it's referred to as a command vehicle.

The vehicle will consist of four community paramedics. Members wanting and or promoted to the position of community paramedic will have one year to complete the CP course and obtain their CP certification.

So, the people that serve on squad 12 are I if certified, but they're also trained to be able to go to our home visit program, our hospital at home program where they do lab work. Um, they do your analysis, they do all kinds of testing as a referral from the hospital.

So, these people that work on these trucks are dual trained. They're trained to both do um interfacility transfers and can handle interfacility ALS transfers and they're available 247 to be able to do our um home visit program.

Okay. So, can I ask and maybe again I'm old school so maybe it's just a flaw. I don't know.

I know in my day you had a job. Your job consisted of A, B, C, and D. You did your job. to get paid to do your job because you because you were in a different area or working in this case on a different vehicle didn't warrant more money. It was part of your job. A 911 paramedic who goes to an emergency um I mean they can start IVs, they can push meds, they interbate people.

Somebody goes into cardiac arrest, they're interbated. So should we give them more money because they when they every time they interbate somebody?

No. I mean it to me it's it's sort of along that line. I mean I agree. I I mean I think let me tell you something.

Paramedics are a rare breed and I appreciate them very much because what they do and can do in the community is is absolutely amazing. So I mean they're they're as good as almost as good as a trauma center. I mean they there's people in medical field they can do more than other people in the medical field.

So we have one squad. We had one supervisor vehicle in Fall River and we have 10 ambulances running in the city of Fall River and there was no inclination to make another officer um within our department at this time because we didn't know whether the IFT program was going to be something that was going to be something that was going to continue into the future or if it was something that you know we didn't know

where it was going to go. So we created this squad 12 position. These paramedics are trained to do both. They do 911, they do if they do home visits. And what they do is if there's a supervisor needed within the community for one of our 911 trucks and our squad is tied up, they'll respond to those emergencies. So they're kind of those people are trained to do anything and everything. They they

are able to handle any kind of situation in in both of in in that capacity. And when you take that individual off that truck and put them on a 911 truck, they earn less money.

They do in of their own valition, but they earn less money.

They do.

Even though they're saving lives, etc., etc., and doing specialized uh performing specialized functions, they earn less money.

I don't think it's fair. I'm sorry. I I don't think that's fair.

Treat everybody the same.

Whether you lower it or raise it, I I I don't know. Um I I have a hard time with that as well. Um I'm going to yield for now.

Thank you.

Yeah. Thank you. For the avoidance of doubt, I want to just make it clear. I I I'm I'm trying to find ways to support this in my mind, but the the concern that I have is the that my two other colleagues have spoke about in seat one and C2 is the unfair um the unfair practice by which you're breaking the department up into two and not having sustainable and fair pay amongst the entire

paramedic population. And granted, the four of you were here asking for the appropriation tonight, but I'm sure we're all part of the collective bargaining negotiations as well. Maybe you weren't. Okay, that's fine. But my point is I don't I I don't think it's fair. Now, do I do I say in one hand it's not fair and then they don't they don't get their necessarily a contract?

I don't know. But we can always kick it back and ask them to be fair and adequate amongst the entire uh EMS population. Number one, the other thing I just want to say is um let me ask you this. You have a competing collective bargaining unit that is be open for negotiations right now. Can the city afford a 6% increase for future collective bargaining neutrations with you?

There is more. I I won't speak to the finance other than to say on the language side, there's more to the agreement than the COLA, there are concessions in the language that that helps us as well. And and if I could just go back one step real quick, this isn't a one-sided agreement. So, this is, you know, we had multiple bargaining sessions. We've discussed this with the the EMS unit. This has

gone back and forth. This agreement was ratified by their body. That's why we're here tonight. So, I mean, there's there's comfort at the EMS employee level that this is what's best for their body and the department. You know, that three and a half% they're they're happy with that. That's the agreement that's before you tonight.

Okay. From a financial standpoint, are you open? Do you want do you do you feel I'm not naming a union. I'm just using this hypothetically. I want to say if a if a like union that does public safety comes and says they will expecting this 6% increase overall whe it's two two and a half three and a half however you are you prepared to compare this union and pay those unions adequate

pay in comparison to this is the best comparable you're going to get because and the reason I'm asking this isn't to try to be koi it's to be it's to just be clear with our expectations about what we are going to do with future collective bargain negotiations.

This question should have been asked when police was open that reopened superior officers and yada yada yada, but it didn't. So that's why I'm asking today, does a city have the financial capabilities to pay these increases for future collective bargaining units?

Point of order, Mr. President, I don't want Emily to be put on the spot. She's not even the interim CFO. She's working in finance. I just don't want you to put her on the spot.

Well, with all due respect, Mr. President, I want to just say that they're before us right now. They're the executive branch who does collective bargaining negotiations and they're the ones who prepare the budget. We don't.

So, I need to hear from my own edification that future collective bargaining units have if they ask for this type of increase, the city can afford to pay. And you don't you're not before the GMLC saying, "Oh, no, we can't afford to pay it. We can't afford to pay it." This is going to be your best comparable going forward.

I think the language in those other agreements is extremely important.

Right. So it it's not yeah it's not that simple to say it's comparable like that and in other places we understand that.

So in the sense of the two and a half% cola yes that is something that we are close to being prepared for. The problem that you're not seeing on this is the other side of things of what we get back. So and and we do understand that other unions come in and look at this and they see the 6% and they're saying the same thing of you gave it to them so

we deserve it. But it's not that clearcut. And at the negotiation table, we do have those conversations of but these are the other sides of things and and we're able to negotiate that and factor it into it. So in that sense, yes, we have had conversations of how this agreement could impact those other ones and we are prepared to handle that the way it needs to be handled.

Can you afford it?

But that's what I'm saying when you oversimplify it like that. No. And and that's the problem that we keep getting into. You can't oversimplify it in that way. And that's how many again the conversation we have.

How many other unions are open for negotiations right now?

87 total. every every city unit.

See where I'm going down here, right?

Absolutely. We we have actively had these conversations.

I mean, I'm I'm speaking out of both sides of my mouth. We need we need more We need more.

They're all different.

I I know that, but there's but there's there's ramifications of giving a 6% increase in an in with that being said, a not fair 6% increase all across the paramedic population.

I think we should allow him to negotiate and do his job.

I agree with you.

And and and and everyone is different.

Listening to councelor in seat one. I think we need to change some stuff that we're doing with with paramedics. Um and I will look into that definitely. But um uh you know to to the lum summit and say are you ready? You know is 6% too much?

Everyone's different. Can't say that.

I hear you Mr. Dion. It's all different.

I I I I hear you, but with all due respect, there is a financial component of collective bargaining negotiations, which is why you're before us with an appropriation tonight, correct?

And it's going to have an impact. It had it before and and we but we can't responsibly say to ourselves, "Oh, well, that's okay. I mean, we'll do our job."

But there's a financial component to the job, correct? that we need to recognize and realize that if I was the union president and of ABC union, I'm going to say, "Wow, that's what they're getting.

We're going to ask for that, too." Not not worried about commas and sentences and and languages and all these. I'm not worried about that. I'm just saying at the very high level, if I was on a board that determined a collective bargaining dispute, I'm not going to look necessarily at the language words. I'm looking at the financial component to it.

But it does factor in when it comes to offsets. That's something that I am pointing out and will be, you know, all right.

I believe I believe at the point enough.

You know where I'm coming from. I'm trying to be fair and adequate across the city. There's a financial component to this as well as a language give back.

I get that. But that we need to recognize where we are financially.

If we didn't think we could not afford this collective buying agreement, it wouldn't be in front of you or the impact of it on other units.

I I will I hear you, Mr. Dion, and you to be fair to you. You weren't here when the other when the police patrolman union opened up these same negotiations and that very question was asked by that very council. Can you afford it? And it has it has had a trickle down effect on this in this community for other collective bargainings because we were told then that council was told then

it's only going to be $400 $500,000 but it wasn't. There was a grander more larger scale here that has had a huge impact. So the fi don't don't minimize the financial ramifications that these collective bargaining when we have one unit that is opened and and and agreed it will impact other units financially.

You can take that to the bank. I yield.

Thank you. Council cont.

Thank you. Uh so just to piggyback on council ponty's point. So I know all the contracts are different. Have you ever tried making that argument at the JLMC when police goes there and says, "Well, fire just got this." And when fire goes there, they say police gets that. How's how's that work for you?

You know how that works out?

Okay. So, my colleague was right. It's going to have an impact. So, in terms of the affordability coming down before us, we we don't even know if we can afford it. We don't even have overtime, you know, factored into this as a number.

It is factored into it.

Yes, it is.

It it is it's it's the additional savings that could come from it. That's not. So if anything, this is an overestimate rather than an under. So it it is factored in and the cost of the rates changing for the current overtime that we do have is also increased as part of these numbers. So it's it's the potential savings that could mean we need less money. That isn't factored into this.

That was my fault. I misspoke. Those hours were being added in, but that is an apples to apples comparison. So So the projection was based off what was already in there.

So, how many hours of overtime do we anticipate on the 24s that are automatically generated on the door now from last year?

So, how many hours of overtime do you inherently assume because you are doing 24-hour shifts?

That's already that's that's not a change in any of this.

That's whatever's how we've been doing it didn't change in this.

We Mr. Dion and I both know it's a change. I've had the conversation 24-hour shifts.

No, the impact And I don't want to really get into it, but this is what I'm talking about. Like, you know, I'm asking a very specific question. I know there's an impact. I know there's a change. I know it hasn't been incorporated in the operating budget. I know that to be a fact. I know that's a fact. So, for you to sit there and tell me that you have incorporated overtime

into this is just not talking about different said something wasn't true. I got in trouble and um that I don't want to go down that road. So I I will just say uh I I don't perceive it to be an accurate statement.

I I think we were just talking about different parts of overtime. I thought you were talking about the savings of getting the personal days back. That's what I was misunderstanding.

So we haven't done a we haven't done any comparable analysis, right? So we don't know what other communities we we we could be on the top step comping paramedics. We don't know that. Not saying that we are, but we haven't done any comparative analysis. So we've got zero comps.

Am I wrong? I mean I the comps were to the private to the p private companies not to other communities. That is correct. It was not to communities. It was to the companies.

So you did you did comps?

We did comps to private. We looked at private because that is where our most competition is just for the if through paramedics in general, EMTs, paramedics. We know what private sector those folks are making. What can you check? Tell me what's what's the membership.

104.

Yeah. 104.

And how many are EMS and how many are I if 38 are 38 are IFT?

So the executive administrative system will also receive a three and a half%.

So what what is where do I find that on the ORC chart?

The title of the name changed too. It was the um head MIH coordinator position.

No, talking about that was administrative assistant. We changed that because of the ask me contract changing last time. And that so the ad the admin assistant.

Yeah.

The title is the same as the ask me change the 3177.

And so they're getting an additional three and a half% on top of the two and a half. Yes.

For all the additional work that they're doing for MIH. Is that changes to payroll? The additional employees coming on, changes to the job.

What what changes to payroll?

Uh with the with the increase in employees that have been added over the last x years, it has changed the scope of the work.

Oh man, I'm I'm just going to stop because you know what? I'm I'm going to look like the bad guy here. I I just So you go So we go from we add 38 people to do if and then all of a sudden we're going to increase payroll because we got 38 additional people doing payroll.

It's it's increasing the change the tracking of overtime uh the scheduling changes. So that's all stuff that has to be tracked and reported for payroll.

Let me let me ask let me ask you a question. So um the treasur's office that cuts the checks. So all the individuals that are cutting the checks for payroll, have they received any type of increase there because payroll has increased?

Are we anticip are we anticipating doing increases because the workload's going to be increased?

I will tell you that office was upgraded last contract.

That position also handles all the revenue stream that comes into the department. She handles all the so does treasurers and the collectors and the auditor's office all the finance department that deals with all that stuff. So now it goes back to my colleagueu's uh point like so you're giving additional a percentage increase, right? So you're you're it's it's not even a cost of living. It's on top of what they're

doing and you're saying because we added additional individuals. So then you've got people in the finance department who are also overseeing, double-checking, doing all this other stuff. So, we're going to see and anticipate because I don't recall anybody in the, you know, any of the unions getting an additional% of a lot of auditors, um, all of auditors that does payroll, that does cutting the

checks for the city, they're not in a union. They are in technically the management group and they did just receive an increase in this last budget.

So, it we we did actually increase the treasur's office the year prior. They were upgraded to 12A's and there was a reclassification of also last year. No, not everybody. Only certain positions were and that was that was the reason.

Yes, it was part of it. Yeah. Change.

Is there a change in Yes.

All right. Okay.

I I I yield. I give up.

Council, you yield. C.

Oh, yeah.

See two counc I'm sorry. Um I only have one more question. So, so, so the um I'm gonna say Charlton. I know what they don't call it. Whatever it is, you know what? In our days, the names have been changed so many times. It's like I want to go back to saying I don't even know what union. Yeah. Um so, in two years, that contract's going to expire. You have the ability to to renew

it for three years again.

Correct.

It's a it's a renewable unless we decide not to renew it. It's a three-year contract with Correct. Okay. So in two years that happens, but that means they also have the ability to not renew it if they choose not to.

Correct.

Correct. Correct.

Both sides, not just one side.

Correct. So, in the event that somehow over the next couple of years, somebody figures out some way that they can do what you're doing and undercut what you're doing and the hospital decides they don't want to stay with the city, what happens.

The inclination has been they're very satisfied with our service. I I understand that. I And I'm And I'm really not trying to be a jerk. I'm not trying to be rude. I'm not I'm I'm just trying to ask a reasonable question. If they said we are not going to renew, what would happen? What would be the result of that?

We would have to take a look at our staffing levels, operational needs. Um things change, we would have to change staffing and nothing we're doing would be sustainable.

pretty much it would because the three and a half percent would also go away if we if we eliminated those employees that are providing that service.

That's the point. What would what's being presented would not be sustainable because now you would have to shut down trucks, lay off or fire employees etc. etc.

but only for that specialized service.

So, we would just go back to where we were and we would still be able to sustain the two and a half% increase.

Yeah. Okay. With that, I yield. Thank you.

Thank you, Council. Council C5, Council, to my colleague in seat number two. I know exactly what you mean, but that's what happened when we got 9 C cuts. We had all these people working in all these departments and then the 9 C cuts came down and we had to adjust. I don't think we've ever gotten back to where we were before and it's been years. But when you get cuts, have to adjust. I

hope they don't leave us. And I hope we don't get cuts from the feds to the state to us because I'm hearing of a lot of programs that aren't getting the funding that they anticipated. So hold on to your seats.

We're done.

With that, I yield.

Thank you, councelor.

There being no further questions.

Thank you. Thanks. Entertain a motion to adjurnn. Fin motion to adjourn finance.

Second motion to J made seconded.

Um, all in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. City council community finance is now adjourned.

Regular city council meeting will begin in three hours with a three-hour break.

Just kidding.

Hey Mike, we'll wait for

City Council, please come to order. The clerk will call the role.

Council Kadim here.

Dion here. Hart here.

Kilby.

Here Tits.

President Camaros here. Will everyone in the council chair please rise for a moment of silent prayer?

Please remain standing for salute to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for it stands nation indivisible and justice for all.

Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public hearing or may transmit this meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Madame clerk, we're going to make this presentation to the clerk for a second.

You have the frame.

This is a sad moment in city council history. Let me tell you.

Yes, he does.

Just want to just want to say Allison was here when I started and people says I've been here for a long time.

She's been here for 38 years.

And this council seemed like 38 years today, didn't it?

for career. Um, we're going to present you with one of these. I don't know if you've ever seen one before or not on occasion. She's probably done a thousand of these. City of for Massachusetts City Council official resolution. Be it resolved that the city council hereby extends his commendation to Allison Bousad, city clerk. In recognition of your dedic dedicated service to the city

of For River for 38 years, started in 1987 through 2025.

Be it further resolved that the forever city council extend best wishes for continued success and that this resolution be entered into the records of the city council proposed by the entire city council. It was unanimous vote.

Very happy about that. Signed by myself and signed by the new city clerk.

I'm not going to read her four names on this.

The Silva the Paulo leap.

Anyways, congratulations Allison. We also have a plaque. Council Pereira had everyone put this together for you. It's an appreciation award presented to Allison Bush in recognition of your 38 years dedicated service in the office of city clerk and city council and it highlights all the days of when you started and when those positions were was done for you. Um I have to say Allison was here when I started and

others as well. Councelor Hart was on the council back with me. We have Claudet Mtor here who is here as well and many of the people you work with and have worked in the past are here to support you. You really are a tribute to this community and what you've done for the city and the way you've acted professionally. Um I am honored to be a friend of yours, honored to serve with

you on the council and very proud of everything you've done. It is sad that you're leaving. Um I wish you'd stay longer but enjoy your retirement, have fun, and you're a tribute to this community. Do you want to say a few words? do a quick It's been an honor and a privilege to serve the city for 38 years. Thank you to everyone. Um, I've grown a lot. I've learned a lot. I've made a lot of

friends. I've lost some friends, but it's been a great career. Thank you very much.

I do want to say this is the reason that city councilors have looked so good for so many years in what we do because it's people like her that make us look a lot better than what we really are. Thank you.

from the little kid at Columbus Park to my city clerk. I'm leaving.

So sweet.

So,

you got C6 Conor Ponty.

Yeah. Um I I I just wanted to say and I'm sure my colleagues will probably share their own comments if I may, Mr.

President. I uh I'm sure we all have an Allison story probably, right? Um but obviously many of you have probably heard the story from a personal perspective.

When I was a kid, I'd I'd have the opportunity with my grandmother being the city council secretary for all those years and being able to come hang out here on Friday nights when I was good in school to be able to see her across the hall from her uh and um get to know you when I was little and sat over there and said, "I hope I'd sit here one day." And

I think if we had these cool phones, you would have been able to take a picture of that. That would have been cool. But putting that all aside, I'll just say that I don't think there's ever been a city clerk in the history of city clerks that has been through what you've been through. You went through two recall elections. You went through crazy crazy crazy things that occurred here in this

chamber from mayors coming down in the middle of meetings to going upstairs with me when I was the council president because I was afraid essentially of what's going to come out and I needed a witness and you were right there and you always had the back of council leadership, the president, the vice president and the council and you always did as the president said try to make us

look good. So, I just want to say from my perspective, um, you you you did the job. You did it well. You did it, um, with professionalism and poise. And even though you might have got a little tired in doing the job and you want to retire a little bit, um, Inz has some huge, huge shoes to fill. Um, this city is a better place. This city council, prior city councilors, uh, are better

counselors than people because they met you. And you're a tremendous person inside and out. And uh I'm just happy to say that I I know you and I uh you were uh I I was able to serve with you and uh we are all going to miss you for at least from my perspective. So I yield, Mr. President. Thank you.

Thank you. Council, you didn't ask her to walk you out because you wanted a witness. You needed a bodyguard. People knew.

Thank you. You said it.

You got it. Council C2, Council Dion.

Yeah. And I I just want to add Sean didn't do too well with it, but you even survived the ladies with the pompoms and the clapping.

I miss those ladies.

All right, back to work. Madam clerk.

See, the first item before you is the transfer.

Uh, Mr. President, can I make a motion to take items 10 and 11 out of order?

Motion takes item 10 and 11 out of order has been seconded.

All in favor? I I any opposed?

Motion carries. Madam clerk on to item number 10.

Whereas the department of emergency medical services within the city of Fall River is currently operated as an enterprise fund pursuant to the provisions of Mass General Law Chapter 44 section 53F and a half. And whereas the city council recognizes the importance of ensuring that the department of EMS operations remain financially stable and accountable while also aligning with the city's overall

fiscal structure. And whereas the continuation of the department of EMS as an enterprise fund is no longer deemed to be in the best interest or administrative interest of the city. And whereas the city council believes that establishing a special revenue account for all ambulance receipts will provide greater fiscal sustainability and flexibility for the city. Now therefore, be it resolved that the Fall River City

Council hereby respectfully request that the mayor submit a request to revoke the provisions of chapter 44, section 53 and a half of the Mass General Laws to the city council, thereby ceasing the operation of the Department of Emergency Medical Services as an enterprise fund effective with the commencement of fiscal year 2027 and be it further resolved that upon such revocation, a

special revenue account be established for the deposit of all ambulance receipts. Motion to adopt and refer to the committee on finance.

Second.

Motion to adopt and refer to committee on finance has been seconded. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Clerk.

Where's the city council as the legislative branch of government is entrusted with oversight, fiscal responsibility, and the protection of taxpayer interests. And whereas recent actions involving the execution of occupancy agreements without clear council authorization have raised serious concerns about transparency, accountability, and respect for legislative authority. And whereas

substantial financial commitments carry long-term consequences for the city's budget, operations, and residents and warrant heightened legislative review.

And whereas it is the duty of the city council to establish safeguards ensuring that such obligations are subject to public debate and formal approval. Now therefore, be it resolved that the committee on ordinances and legislation convene to draft a proposed ordinance with the following. Number one, any real estate, lease, license, or occupancy agreement entered into by the city of

Fall River or any of its departments, agencies, or instrumentalities with a yearly financial obligation exceeding $50,000 shall require express approval of the city council prior to execution.

and two, no funds shall be expended under any such lease or agreement unless and until the city council has taken formal action to authorize it.

Motion to adopt and refer to the committee on ordinances and legislation.

Motion to adopt and refer to committee on legislation has been made and seconded on the motion. Council seat six council.

Thank you, Mr. President. Um so the point of this resolution obviously um I was absent at the last city council meeting where the vote went 44 uh for the EMS department to um sign a lease or a long-term lease with respect to uh over $243,000 a year. Um and then afterwards I hear uh after that meeting was commenced that you know the deal was kind of in the bag already and there was a lease that was

executed. Um it was my understanding that shortly thereafter that lease was executed after the council said no, a license then came about um shortly thereafter. Uh I've raised my concerns um to the chief directly because we have a great relationship and mutual respect for each other. Um, but I will tell you that the purpose of this resolution, and I urge my colleagues to adopt something

like this, not only for EMS, but for all departments, that the city council that has the foresight and ability to um uh bind the city for real estate purchases and selling of real estate, doesn't have the ability to have any oversight with respect to signing leases, whether it's through EMS or any department for that matter. I know there are some other leases that in in prior councils we've

opened up a budget and say why are we paying lease a lease on this land and this bill and elsewhere and we really have no oversight on that but we do have the ability to reduce reject or approve an appropriation or uh an appropriation in our budget. It seems kind of you know it it doesn't make sense to me. Um I've expressed my clear frustrations at at anybody who has hasn't respected the

legislative branch. Um, and I feel that it was a little bit of a slap in the face to the council after they voted for four not to approve an appropriation and move forward with a lease that a lease was signed the very next day and then pulled back and then signed again on the 28th of August. A license a lease was signed from what I was told and then a license was signed after they decided to

do it. Now granted, I will say that I think they realized they heard the council that you know we we wanted you know we have all these this bonding for Center Street Station. and there's work that was done to it, yada yada yada, all these other things that we don't need to get into. Um, but this this resolution came about as a result of my frustration that a lease was executed or a license

was executed after the city council said no. And I don't think that's the right thing to do. I also don't feel that it's it's it's financially responsible to spend $243,000 a year in a facility um that may not have followed the procurement process.

If it did, I don't know. But to me, it doesn't really pass a straight face test to me. So, um I'm asking my colleagues um to take what I just said into consideration and to get this immediately to the ordinance committee so that all leases um uh are um are gone are reviewed by the city council. A funding mechanism is then confirmed and uh the council has the ability to do

that. And that $50,000 number was just a baseline number from research that I've done. But if the council feels that $25,000 is is that number so the ordinance committee can have that discussion. But I'd ask that um the ordinance committee meet on this develop the res the ordinance and let's get this passed this term because I don't want to see things like that ever happen again.

It's it's not it's not good business.

It's certainly not good government. And as an elected body of nine, we are responsible fin for financial oversight, financial responsibility, and to protect taxpayers. And when leases are signed after the council said no or licenses are signed after the council said no because it just happened to be the most perfect building available in the city of Fall River. Um I I I I I want us to make sure that we have that

accountability and that was the reason I filed this resolution and I ask my colleagues for their support. I yield Mr. President.

Thank you. Council Council Diana.

Yeah. Let me start off with um I don't believe anybody on this council was against EMS obtaining a building.

Um nobody was against them having the perfect building. It was almost three4ers of a million dollars for a lease that in the end we had nothing.

And at that point they could have to move out of the building. So it was more of if if they had come if if if the administration had come to this table and said we have this building. This building's perfect. We're going to pay this much money for three years. X number of dollars is going to go towards the purchase price because the agreement is they're selling us the building so

the city will own it and EMS will have a permanent home. It would have passed no problem. But to put that kind of money into a building that you're not that you don't own is ridiculous is just crazy. Um, and whether you have the money in whether the money's in the account or not, you know what it's a it's revenue that's generated by EMS. The acronym EMS is emergency emergency medical service.

That's what it is. Um, there's people like to think the taxpayer doesn't contribute to it. They certainly do.

They certainly do. taxpayers pay threearters of the health insurance.

They're going to pay threearters of everybody's pension when they retire. It does affect the taxpayers.

So, you know, you want to you want to get the biggest bang for your buck. What I would like to do though, seeing a a license was moved forward with and initially they didn't think they had the funding, that's why they came before the council. I would like to make a motion to wave the rules to have administration come down here and tell us where they got the money to pay this light license.

Second.

Motion has been made and seconded. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed?

Motion carries. Can you come down, please?

I would ask if he's prepared to talk on that.

They should be. They signed the license.

He'll tell you if he's can.

Yeah.

So, they signed it obviously believing they have the money answer the question. What do we think of the money? Um so part of the money came from an it a line item that was in the budget that was set aside for um the shared squad additional benefits um for the pension and the health insurance of the shared squad and now that it is not being used as staff in EMS that portion of it

was pulled back out. So that's where the money is coming from for the lease for this year that we hadn't factored in when we came down with the appropriation order.

So that would be that would be the indirect charges.

It's technically not. It's listed as that in the budget book. I know it is.

Um that was it.

Says that in the budget.

It does not say that in the appropriation order. If you look at the appropriation order, they don't tie that's the that's the budget book.

That's not the appropriation order.

No. No. This is the appropriation order that came down before. Listen, don't sit there and shake your head. said, "No, please."

Okay.

I went back to April 22nd and and pulled out the agenda. This is the o appropriation order that was in that agenda. And in this appropriation order, it's capital, which is a capital line item that you can't transfer any of those funds without our approval.

Correct. Underneath that is indirect charges, transfers to general fund, transfers to general fund, shared employee benefits, health insurance, retirement contributions.

That's where it is. It's an align item that is not under expenses.

So, how could you pull money out of it?

If you look at the actual appropriation order, that is the backup that was in the budget book that went with it. If you look at the actual order that says order that Allison signs when it is done, you can see that those numbers that 275 is actually a part of the expenses and the numbers don't tie out perfectly because of that. It was put in the budget book that way because I

thought it was more clear to understand that it is a like charge and that was that was not the way that the appropriation order itself was done. I don't know if you have okay this is directly out of the budget, right? That is not the appropriation order. Correct.

Budget book appropriation order that was sent down council.

Correct. Those numbers do not match. If you look at them, I I looked at them. I promise you they do not.

The numbers do not match.

Why would an appropriation order and a budget book not match? First of all, I mean they do. They do in total. The very bottom line numbers do match in total. It is just that 275. It is inexpensive. The line items don't correct. The line items correct. So, so in the appropriation, so we have expenses here, appropriation order.

So, here's the expenses in from the appropriation order.

Correct.

I can go right down the list.

electricity, heat, R&M, other stipens, EMT school, EMS vaccine program, R&M radio, rentals and leases, CPR training, documentation program, workers compensation training, data processing, telephone communications, postage, medical director training, gasoline, office supplies, computer equipment rental, R&M, other, cleaning supplies, motor oil and lubricants, pots and accessories, medical supplies, books.

Correct.

Where does that If you look at the total where it says expenses in bold at the very top of that list that you just read off, it says 2.139.

The appropriation order says 2.485.

So, and then if you look at the indirects that's bolded that total, it says 3.9. And if you look at the appropriation order, it says 3.645.

So that 275 is as a part of the appropriation order is actually under expenses not under indirects under expenses.

So on this page here it's employee benefits 275,000 under indirect charges not listed under expenses.

Correct. So, if you want to call it anything, it's an error in the display, but the appropriation order has that 275 factored in as an expense.

It's it it's not there's no specific there's no specific line item saying that. So, yeah, you took and on this page, you took all your revenues and you lumped them into this little column here. So, you could come to your 16,267,000.

Correct. And then you took all anything that was considered an expense. Is an indirect charge an expense? Sure it is.

Is a capital item an expense? Sure it is. But it's not listed under expenses.

Correct.

So because it's not listed under expenses, it has to be transferred to expenses.

So but that's what I I'm sorry.

How does he work?

President, can we pass this over and have the clerk just go get the appropriation order?

I have it right here.

Is that the official?

Yes, it is. It's got her stamp and everything on it. Could we could we get copies of that just so that we have that?

Emily, can you have the clerk get some copies have to park? Yeah.

Council take a two-minute recess.

I was just

Hey, hey, hey.

Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat.

City Council will reconvene count 2.

Council Dian, you still have the floor.

I'm going to yield and defer to my colleague in seat one.

There is another council had his hand up prior.

That's fine. I can council seat five. Council vice president prayer, you had your hand up.

No, no, I didn't.

Well, you did. No, that's Oh, I did. I'm sorry. I'll put it down.

You're good.

Maybe I was waving.

All right. Council seat one. We're back to you.

Thank you. Uh, so I I I think I was following what you were saying in terms of the appropriations. So for the direct we have salaries of 9.8 million call it $9.9 million expenses $2.48 48. Right.

Correct.

And so when you go to the I guess the budget summary for expenses, you have $2.1 million. So you're saying that you pulled from that.

Is that correct?

It's that Yeah, it's the other 275 that's under the indirects that's shown on the budget pages under the indirects.

That's really a part of those expenses.

Dollar for dollar that 275 moves over.

Which 275?

Oh yeah. Yeah. Okay. But what about like so when we're looking at the the budget summary? So you have I see the 240s captured for capital.

So let me start at the top. So salaries and wages that ties out $99 million.

Your expenses overall are are higher.

So that the debt and the um transfers are listed in this budget book differently, but the appropriation I was that's what I was going to say.

you sorry also you don't carry you don't carry debt I don't see debt here so you moved it from it's part of the expenses in that sense as opposed to the to the debt correct okay because it's tech it's a note payment so it it's just the way that the the GL's and the orgs were set up with this so that this matches the appropriation order matches I'm going to say that to

the backend in munice and the display side is what's different because I was trying to make it more clear to make it more clearly distinguish between the different items. And that's that's where this is all.

And so what's that that different comes out exactly to what you needed for the lease agreement?

No, it's it's more than it it's far more than the lease agreements needed. The lease agreement for this year, I know it's we keep saying the 243 a year, but it's not a full year for this fiscal year. So it's only I think it's 202500.

That is the total for FY20.

Sorry, I'm buried between fiscal years right now. Um, and the amount in that line right now is 275. So, it's it's more Listen, I Well, I'll say this again. I think the administration does it to itself, right? You know, you you put the bullets in the gun and you shoot yourselves in the foot. It just it's time and time again. I I I think what happens is again, you come down to the

city council, you ask for a vote, the vote doesn't go your way, and then you go back and you figure it out. As opposed to if you didn't need our vote, you didn't need our vote. So you know and then this is then we get a resolution that you know leases have to come here and all that stuff. So it just it just handcuffs the administrator and the administration or in future but it

you know so at some point it's a check and balance right but we we should be allowed to allow the administration to have flexibility to run day-to-day operations of the city right so then we become it comes to a point where it's like we have to have additional checks and balances in place almost as a way to micromanage because of the way things are are being done. So I again I I just

you know and this is just coming out of you know the whole transfer with with the trash right so that leaves a bad taste in our mouth. We you know we went several meetings trying to get the transfers done for for trash not knowing about the $3.1 million. So I I I share the um the sentiments of my colleagues with the frustration in terms of you know we we take a vote it doesn't

go your way it's 44. It's just the way the chips fall. Instead of coming back down asking for an additional vote or giving us additional information, you just go back around and and we find additional monies, right? So that, you know, that that's just that's the concern and and I'll I'll leave it at that. I I just think, you know, I support the uh you know, the resolution that's before us to to move it forward.

But I I I don't think we need to get there, right? I don't I don't think we should be having these types of resolutions. I I think that there should be some trust, you know, between the legislative body and the administrator the administration. And it just, as I mentioned in previous meetings, it's time and time again, it's, you know, you just we regret trying to work with the administration because every step of the

way, we feel like when we hand when we put our hand out for help, it's like that, you know, we get smacked in the face for it. And and that's that's just the issue. That's the unfortunate issue. And I I hope we can somehow try to rectify this moving forward. um and and just work on, you know, procedurally how things are are done because what's going to happen is when you need a council vote like the

trash or you need capital items coming back down before us for EMS, we're just going to say no, we're not we're not doing it. Now you need our vote, you didn't need it before or you didn't care that you didn't have it. So figure out just like you did the last time, how are you going to fund your your capital items? And I don't think that is good for the department. I don't think that's

good for the city. So, we just really need to try to figure out how to get back on the same page. Um, being fully transparent, and I'm not suggesting anybody's not trying to be transparent, but being fully transparent in terms of, you know, what's being presented, the communication that's coming forward, uh, giving us a better understanding of, you know, again, long-term planning, all

that, all that stuff needs to to be better. And, and I know I've had the conversation uh with Mr. Dion and and the mayor over the last couple of months on what I'd like to see moving forward.

I mean, as one counselor, I I offer up as much time, you know, I offer up my time. I'll come in. I'll have conversations. I'll give you recommendations. You don't need to take what I'm recommending, but I am here as a as an asset and a resource uh to the administration if you want help. And I and I've said this to a number of my colleagues. I wish I had the city

council when I was here. The things that I could get could have gotten done with the support of a city council would have been completely different. we would be talking about different things completely and I think sometimes that that's taken for granted and and just I don't know how to plead and get that message across that we just need to change how we are working together as a as a team that that's all I've got to

say with that I yield I always thought we were supportive we are council me or you thank you me or her you Council.

Um, so I just want to just just get right to it real quickly. Was a lease signed after the council voted?

I've been told no, I wasn't there, but my understanding is that a um license was signed. Okay. It's a temporary license. It's a temporary solution. I was here that night. I listened to councelor uh Kadim, councelor Dion. Um, in speaking with the landlord, uh, the landlord has agreed to a purchase and sales agreement. He's willing to sell the property. We're going to go out for another RFP for the future for the

purchase of the property, and it's going to come to you as a city council for approval.

um in those agreements, in those in those uh negotiations with him, um he agreed to take $50,000 per year of the lease money, a total of $200,000 to go towards the purchase price. And I know that there's been multiple multiple plans that have came across this this body and I can't talk about those plans because I wasn't here, but the plan of moving EMS to the building to a new building on Rodman Street is done. It's

not happening. That would be their home.

That's the future of EMS, that building.

So, we're going to come back to you again with a new RFP. We're doing a new RFP as we speak for the purchase of that property. We're going to come back to you. If you vote it down, you vote it down. I can't do anything. I can't convince nine people to vote yes. So, um it is not the last time that you're going to see this. You're going to see

this again. the the the license is only temporary. I believe it can be canceled after one year. Um I didn't I don't have the lease in front of me. Um but I read the lease when it was signed. A license I mean I'm sorry I keep getting those two mixed up. Um but there is a license in agreement. Again I I keep saying this. It's temporary. Um you know I've only I I was the city administrator

interimm city administrator for one day when this came down. Okay. And I listen to all of you people at this meeting, okay? And there's no doubt that this is as I am the if I do become the city administrator, there is nothing that's going to go down to this council that's not vetted, that's not looked at. Okay?

And I'm going to make sure that you're okay with it.

All right? I don't know what you had in past city administrators, if you felt comfortable with them or not. I don't really know. But I know going forward with me sitting here, I am not going to lie to you and I'm going to give you the stuff straight up.

That's all I can do.

I I I respect I respect that. Um and I think that's all we ever asked for.

Not saying you were lied to in the past, but I'm just telling you I'm just telling you that that you know I've spent a lot of time with councelor Sean Kadima in seat number one over the last three or four weeks. Okay. and he's given me some great ideas, ideas that I really believe in and I really do think they're good ideas for the city of Fall River. Great.

And my goal is to make sure that those ideas are are are are uh um uh put in place.

I mean, I'm not complaining and I'm not uh making excuses. I spent 41 hours in the last month of extra time working as a CDA director and as the interim uh city administrator. I I mean, I care for this city. I've been here for 30 years and you know that.

I'm telling you right now, you know, I'm going to do the best I can, but you are not going to be put on your heels. And I never want to hear it come out of your mouths that my back was against the wall because I hate that too when my back is against the wall. So my my my um issue is is to be upfront, to be honest, and to put stuff down to you

that you feel comfortable with. Okay. I didn't feel comfortable with originally $274,000.

It bothered me. It's a lot of money. I can tell you that right now. But looking at how much is it going to cost to build a new building, we're probably talking6 to 8 million. Okay? And I don't honestly I've been here I don't know last 10 years we talked about building a building. We still haven't built a building. I don't even think we're going to build a building in the next five

years. I'll be retired by the time you build a building for EMS. This is their final home. You got to go take a look at this piece of property. I don't know about procurement. I wasn't involved in the procurement. I don't know if it was done I hope it was done correctly, but I wasn't involved in the procurement.

We have Rebecca here.

So, okay.

And I know I'm rambling on, but I'll I'll end with that. All I can say is passionate, Mr. You have some really good good ideas, and as a as in city administrator, I'm listening to those ideas. I'm listening to everything that you people are saying and I agree with it's funny I agree with a lot of it.

Yeah. So, uh, thank you for that. I appreciate your your ambition and I appreciate from my perspective your honesty to us and that's all we're asking for, right? We're not give us the bad news, right? Give us give us give give it what it is.

We don't like coming down here on Tuesdays and getting yelled at.

Yeah. No, you know what I mean? We don't like it.

I Nobody wants the Li either, Mr. Dan.

Nobody wants the Elliot. I know that.

What what what what upsets me though is is things like this that occur or may have allegedly occurred, right, that a lease was or was not signed. I don't know. I'll find out. And maybe you don't know if one was signed after the meeting. But what what really grinded my gears was when I was hearing that leases were executed after the council said no to an appropriation or a transfer. And

if it was and it wasn't, I just rather know now. I just rather know. Counselor, we signed a lease. You saw my letter and I got your email back, but I just want to know, was a lease signed by you or anybody on the team with Mi Mr. Dion wasn't a aware of that after the council voted no. I just want to know yes or no.

The email from Corporation Council dated a August uh 8:28 says right here, in response to your legal request for a legal opinion, there is no property lease agreement between EMS. Yeah, that was 4 days after.

I'm not aware of any violation of procurement law.

Okay, great. But that was that was that was like 2 weeks after or a week after the city council meeting. It was my understanding that at the very next day or a couple days thereafter, a lease was signed and I just want to make sure that that wasn't the case.

There was a draft lease that was circulating at that time part of the whole RFP process. There was a draft lease that already existed. So that there is that that was around and it was was it signed?

It was being looked at. It was never fully executed. No. Was was there parties that signed the document?

I I believe that the building owner came in with it signed by him, but that was it.

That's what I saw. Was it him signing it, but it was not it was never fully executed.

I appreciate the honesty. I I I appreciate it. Maybe you weren't in the meeting or whatnot. This is just the stuff the whole trash stuff like this is the stuff that needs to end. Mr. Dion, I appreciate your admiration and the respect towards this council and that's all we're ever asking for here. We're not asking We're not asking for anything other than respect between this body and

the executive branch. It's gone on too long at a national level and the state level that two sides can't get along and all they want to do is bicker going back and forth. Right? If we can lead and do something around in this state for once and maybe have the executive branch and the legislative branch work collectively with each other, even if we would disagree, we can respectfully do that.

I agree.

That's all we ask for. And when when I see things like this, it it troubled me.

When I hear the things that I hear and it's contradictory, it upsets me and all I ask for. So, I appreciate what you said. I won't let you forget it. And I just hope that as we go forward in the rest of this term and if we're all fortunate enough to be here for another two years that we have the ability to have these open, honest conversations and even come give us the bad news

because we're okay with accepting that.

No, you're not.

Yeah, we are. I yield.

I just want to say we did ask you to come down to verify where the money came from and we are clear with that now.

Is everyone free with them leaving? We can continue our meeting without need.

One more comment.

All right. Council C5 counc I guess not.

No, I was just making a comment regarding the lease and license etc. The day after I heard that a lease was signed, I called the mayor. Did you sign this lease? No, there is no lease. There was nothing signed. A license. I know that there is a resolution going to the ordinance committee versus a lease and a license, but I think that's in state law too that with a license administration

can do it. So, we'll have to have the legal department take a look at that.

To be clear, a license was also not executed the day after the meeting. That was, I think, executed a couple of days ago. So, that also was not, right?

No, it was not. So, that was also not signed the day after. To be clear, a license nor a lease were executed the day after.

But I will tell you when Mr. Dion came down, he did listen to what the counselors were saying and I think it was if we're going to be spending money, it should go towards the purchase of the building or buying it. So I think you tried to negotiate that whatever that is. um tried to talk about that or at least let administration know what our job was and I you know I thank you for

stepping in as um interim city administrator although you're not getting a penny more for doing it and I think that's admirable on your part.

You got till November 11th.

Okay. After that we'll have to pay you more. Okay.

Then we'll make a decision.

Okay.

I love it.

You council with that I yield.

Okay. Council C2. Do you have a followup as well?

Yes. I just want to number one say that in all my time here I try to um maintain decorum not lose my temper. Um this was a first came out of frustration.

It was scary consult.

Oh you haven't seen anything yet.

Anyways, um, so my intention wasn't to be rude or ignorant, just I've been thinking about this a lot, but anyways, do you have a timeline on the RFP? Because I will tell you this, and I never and you know, I never ever ever disclose the way I'll vote in advance. You can't believe it.

If you come to this council with an RFP, solid contract that states you they leasing it for whatever amount of time, purchase and sales agreement, 100% guarantee that the city is going to buy the building. So, they will have a permanent home.

I will be a yes vote. I can't be a yes vote if it if if it isn't in writing in a contract that the city is going to own the building. And that was the crux of the whole thing to begin with.

Please do me a favor. Get me four other votes.

I bet you I can. You have a timeline on the RFP is my question. And how it's all going to roll out.

The the the timeline on the RFP is probably going to be within the next month or so. I would say within the next month, two months. I just so busy. It's not I I I I can't imagine.

I'm not making a joke and I'm not making light of it. It's just I've been so busy. I don't have time.

No, I understand that and I know you've been working very hard and trying.

But it goes to our purchasing department or the the the RFPs that were done previous have been have been thrown out.

I mean, um checks have I guess they put checks in. Those checks were sent back to the vendors. Um uh um that was for the lease part. But we'll we'll what do you call it? We'll we'll get this done and get it back to you.

Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. And with that, I yield.

Thank you, Council. I know Mr. Dion, you said it was scary the interaction between you and Council Dion. Don't worry about a thing. We got Allison here. She's going to walk you to your card after the meeting.

First, she's going to walk Cliff though.

Then she can get to me.

All right. Can you uh We're all set.

You're free to go. Thank you, the three of you for coming down and clarifying those questions. Appreciate it.

Yeah.

Madam clerk, Mr. President, we voting on the resolution to adopt it.

Motion has been made and seconded to adopt.

All in favor?

I.

Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Thank you.

So, back to item one. It is the um communication from the mayor in an appropriation order in the that the sum of $271,66753 cents be and the same is hereby appropriated to EMS salaries from EMS enterprise fund receipts.

Motion to adopt.

Second.

Motion to adopt has been transfer made and seconded on the motion. Roll call.

On a motion to adopt council kadim, no.

Dion, no.

Hart, yes.

Kilby, Pereira, yes.

Ponty, no.

Reposo, yes.

Tip, no.

President Camaro, yes.

The motion fails.

It's 44.

Court. Item number two is a communication from the mayor and a memorandum of agreement between the city of Fall River and the American Federation of State County Municipal Employees Council 93 Local 122.

Motion to table.

Motion to table has been made. Is there a second?

Second.

Second.

All in favor?

I.

Any opposed?

I'm opposed

to table. Council Kadim, no.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Kilby.

Pereira.

No.

Ponty, yes.

Reposo, no.

Tiff, president, no.

The motion fails.

Is there action necessary on this item?

Motion to adopt.

Second.

Motion to adopt. Have I made it?

Point of second on the motion. Council C1. Council Kadine.

How I don't understand how you can adopt a collective bargain agreement without funding.

Right.

That's why I I said no to the to the table. You you know the real vote is is item number one, right? Because the the author the authority with the city council is the appropriation of funding to fund the collective bargaining agreement. That's that's where it's at.

So I'm just I mean I I'm going to be voting no, but the first vote without an appropriation, you can't fund the contract. So the contract doesn't exist.

It's got to go back. They got to negotiate and come or resubmit.

I yield.

Seat six.

Thank you. The only reason I suggested the motion to table is because I have a suspicion that the item is going to be reintroduced at the next council meeting with our colleague back. So we'll probably hear back from that again.

We'll figure it out then. But I'm just saying at this point to my colleague and seat one's point without the funding we don't have a memorandum of agreement. So I I that's why I made that suggestion.

But at this point, I will not be supporting the memorandum of agreement at this time based on the concerns that I raise in our committee on finance. I yield.

And if I may, Mr. President, um, at the at the next meeting, if this item does come down, I would like the the finance team to please get over to me the impact that this is going to have from a financial perspective and some of the questions that I may have asked in terms of what these what these unions have received, what this specific union received in terms of increases the last

two collective bargaining uh, sessions that were open, whether it was I think it was 16, 18, or 22 or within those times. I'd like to see that and I'd like to have a more of a elevated discussion with respect to the financial aspect of this contract being approved by the council and I will come to this meeting with every hope to try to support it, but I need to hear evidence that it makes financial sense

for the city to do that. So just because my vote today is no doesn't mean it's going to be no in two weeks from now. I want to hear evidence. I want to hear facts. I want to hear statistics. I'll be happy to meet with the chief and the mayor. Whatever you want, but I just want to hear facts because to me, this was just put together relatively quickly in my opinion. I yield.

Do you want to entertain another motion to table?

Would it?

Mr. President, would it be appropriate to refer to the committee on finance to then have a further discussion about it?

Discussion. Yeah, we can do that motion refer the committee on finance. again.

I don't want to go back to finance because then we can refer it.

Point point of order. We're going to have a this come back and it's going to be listed on the committee on finance as transfers and appropriations. Whether we list this as an agenda item or not, it's still going to be on the committee on finance, but if you get this out of the full council into the committee on finance, we'll be able to have a more elevated conversation.

Correct.

So, I'll support that motion.

Motion to refer to committee on finance as a made and seconded.

All in favor? I let it go.

Any opposed? I let it go.

Motion carries.

Ridiculous.

Council, are you okay? You opposed. I didn't oppose.

See, one opposed.

We have the traffic commission making recommendations to the ordinances.

Motion to refer the committee on ordinance.

Second.

Motion refer to committee on ordinance and legislation as made second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Item three is a communication from the city treasurer collector uh regarding the OPED declaration of trust.

Motion to accept, place on file.

Second.

Motion accept and place on tri file as a mean second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

The committee on ordinances and legislation at a meeting held on August 26th voted unanimously to recommend the accompanying proposed ordinance accompanied by an emergency preamble be passed through first reading, second reading, passed to be enrolled and passed to be ordained with councils Kadem and Hart absent and not voting.

This is for handicap parking.

Motion to adopt emergency preamble.

Second.

Motion to adopt emergency preamble as made and seconded on the emergency roll call.

An adoption of the emergency preamble.

Councilors Kadim, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, yes.

Kilby Pereira, yes.

Ponty, yes.

Reposo, yes.

Tip, yes.

President Kamar, yes.

Motion to pass through all readings.

Second pass reading has been made.

Madam clerk, can I ask the question of the clerk? Um, it says on here the contract position. It says uh but then it says this is for handicap parking.

It's number four.

We're still on a pass through all readings. We just did the emergency preamble.

I want to joke. I mean go ahead.

This is the emergency preamble for the um handicap parking.

Motion to pass for second. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries.

The Committee on Ordinances and Legislation at a meeting held on August 26th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance accompanied by an emergency preamble be passed through first reading, second reading, passed to be enrolled and passed to be ordained with counselor Hart absent and not voting. This would establish the position of supervisor of school crossing guards and increase the

crossing guard position hourly rate.

Motion to adopt emergency preamble.

Motion to adopt emergency made and seconded. Roll call.

An adoption of the emergency preamble.

Council Kadim, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, yes.

Kilby Pereira, yes.

Ponty, yes.

Reposo, yes.

Tip, yes.

President Kimera, yes.

Motion to pass through all readings.

Second.

Motion to pass through all readings as made and seconded. And the motion council see one. Councelor Kadima.

Thank you. Could I just uh amend this to include so we we have the increase for the crossing guards at $20. So it would be effective of passage here, but I know we've had a couple weeks where crossing gods have been in school. So if we can if we can do effective unless it says it, I I didn't think it did, but if we can do it effective the beginning of school.

Yeah.

So it's it's going retro two weeks.

So I make that informant with school's been in for two weeks.

Wow.

No, probably.

Huh?

I think a week.

No, two weeks.

I don't know. I'm not in school.

Yeah, I've been out of school for a while. I'm sorry.

Like the end of August. So, two two weeks that form of motion.

Second.

They're going to get out in the middle of May.

I'll I'll second the amendment.

Already did.

Motion has been made and seconded on the amendment to August to the beginning of school.

Yeah. What's the date of school day?

August.

August 26th. 27th. 27th.

27th.

August 27th 27th.

So there's a motion to amend back to August 22nd.

There was a second 27 27 22 seventh seven 27 August 27, 2025 is the first day of school officially by the clerk.

Motion has been made and seconded as amended. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed?

Is there a motion to adopt the order as amended?

Second. Motion made and seconded. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries as amended.

Boy, we at the committee on ordinances and legislation at a meeting held on August 26th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance be passed through first reading with counselors Kadim and Hart absent and not voting. This is a miscellaneous traffic ordinance.

Motion so made second.

Motion made second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

The Committee on Ordinances and Legislation at a meeting held on August 26th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance be passed through first reading as amended with councelor Hart absent and not voting. This would establish the library programs revolving fund.

Motion to pass through first reading as amended.

Motion to pass through first reading as amended has made and seconded. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion passes.

The Committee on Ordinances and Legislation at a meeting held on August 26th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying proposed ordinance be passed through first reading as amended with councelor Hart absent and not voting. This ordinance would um change the veterans benefit agent and director of veteran services salary to this it would it would revert back to um July 1st and not to exceed as opposed to a

contract position not to exceed 95 95,000. Yes.

Okay.

Motion to this went to you sent a letter to have the Yep.

has since input time looked into the accusations he made as well. No.

Yeah. Separate and apart from this.

Okay.

Motion to pass through first reading.

Motion to pass through first reading as amended. Okay.

As amended.

Second.

As made and seconded. All in favor. On the motion. Council seeks.

Yeah. It it's my understanding we need to make a further motion to um change the effective date on this.

Okay.

When we when we did when we did it in ordinances. Okay.

So, it's got a strike out.

It's got a refresh.

July 1st, 2024. Effective date inserting July 1st, 2025.

25. Yeah.

It'll go back to July to the budget.

No, in it says 24.

It says 24.

Okay.

Strike out.

It needs to be amended to 7125.

Yeah. Yeah, it is by inserting January 1st, 2025.

Correct. But the the document in front of us is 2024. Motion has been made and seconded to add the insert of council if I may. We would should also add that the ordinance will take effect upon passage.

So moved. So moved.

Second.

Motion has been made. Is there a second?

Second.

Second.

All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Motion to pass with first reading as amended.

Yes.

Second.

Second. Motion to pass the first reading as amended as remain seconded. All in favor?

And the motion count seven.

Yeah, I just I just want to make a quick statement. Um obviously one as one of the veteran service veteran liaison I should say to the veterans and the VSO.

I will say that u I have been pretty impressed with Mr. Ferris and his abilities and what he's done for the veteran community. Um I've worked with him hand in hand. So I'm I'm glad this is finally where we're at and uh we can move forward with it. So with that I yield.

Thank you.

Motion has a made and second. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Next, we have a miscellaneous traffic ordinance for passage through second reading and enrollment.

Motion so made a second.

Motion to pass through second reading and enrollment is made in second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Have a citation for Liz James.

Motion to adopt the citation.

Motion to adopt the citation has been made and seconded. All in favor? Any opposed?

Motion carries.

Have a citation for Serena Dup.

Motion to adopt the citation.

Motion to adopt the citation has remained in second. All in favor?

I.

Opposed? Motion carries.

Item 14 is the order granting permission to Mass Electric doing business as National Grid for 36 ft of underground conduit at Innovation Way.

Motion to adopt. Second.

Motion take 14 15 16.

So moved. Sure. Second motion take 14 15 16 together has remained and second all in favor I I a motion to adopt 14 15 motion so made second click you want to read those three please I'm sorry motion you want to read the three 14 15 16 for 40 minutes so 14 15 and 16 would be granting permission to national grid for underground conduits at innovation way and current Motion to adopt.

Motion to adopt as a made and second.

All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Item 17 are applications for the renewal of auto body shop licenses.

Motion to adopt. Second.

Motion to adopt as a made in second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Item 18 are applications for the renewal of auto repair shop licenses.

Motion to adopt.

Second.

Motion to adopt as a made and seconded.

All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries. Have the police chief's report.

Motion to adopt.

Second to adopt chief's report as a made in second. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Have a number of claims.

Motion refer to corporation council.

Motion refer to corporation council as remain in second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Item 21 is the assistant corporation council's response to an open meeting while complaint.

Motion to accept and place on file.

Second.

Motion accept place on file has been made and seconded. All in favor.

Any opposed? Motion carries. And item 22 is also a response to an open meeting law complaint.

Motion to accept and place on file.

Motion to accept and place on file as a made in second. All in favor? I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Item 23 is a drain layer application.

Motion to approve.

Motion to approve the drain layers application as made in second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Item 24, a minutes of the planning board meetings.

Motion to accept and place on file.

Motion to accept and place the meeting.

Second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries. Motion to take items 25- 27 together.

Second.

Motion to take item 25, 26, and 27. Has a made in second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Motion to approve item to approve 526.

Second has made second. All in favor?

I.

Any opposed? Motion carries.

Let's move the recess for the signing of the ordinances. Take a one minute recess.

Hey, so how do we get you one of those?

Oh, time for this.

City Council reconvene. Madam clerk, last item before you is the miscellaneous traffic ordinance for final ordination.

Motion so made.

Motion to pass ordination is made in second. All in favor?

Any opposed? Motion carries.

That's all we have, Mr. President.

That's all we have after 38 years.

That's all we have.

She wrote Alison, once again, I just want to say congratulations to you. Thank you for your hard work, your dedication, and your service to this community.

Tonight, I'm sorry. Would you like to say motion to adjourn tonight?

Yeah. Is there a motion to adjourn?

Hold on.

So made a minute.

Open meeting.

Let's go.

Motion to Is there a motion to adjourn?

So made.

Okay. The meeting is adjourned.

I guess we're all in favor.

I was opposed. I don't want her leaving.

Stay in here.

Good night, everybody. Good job.

I do too.