City Council 10 8 2024

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city council committee on finance will come to order clerk will call the role councelor is kadem here Dion here here Kilby Pereira here ponti here Roso here Samson here president here just want to mention Council Kilby has reached out to me earlier today saying he had a prior commitment and he would not be able to attend tonight's meeting pursuit to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video

recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether they perceived or unperceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible first sance input time however no one has signed up for Citizens input so we'll move on to the first item on the agenda which is the

special Charter Review Committee report uh we'll hold discussion and for the full Council for with the recommendation you want to come down please Char members Mr Rumsey alen can you can come down as well please just state your name and address for the record so the public will know who is speaking in front of us I'm Tracy Al 1658 Highland Avenue Reena Brown 747 weedo Street Alan Rumsey

Corporation Council and I was also ex official member of the chter review commission here do you do you want to just open up and give couny to do you want to say something no I I'll just get I'll give a little review good idea please speak into the microphone though so we can hear you crystal clear how's that better it's a lot better okay so all the uh first of all I want

to say on behalf of myself and the other Charter special Charter Review Committee members thank you so much some of us were appointed by the council some by the mayor and and uh the school committee and uh we uh really had a great time uh going over the charter um from the beginning one of the themes that ran through every meeting is that upon reading the Old Charter in the event you don't have it everything's

online uh it created a little area on the website and they have the I call it the Old Charter but it's really the current Charter is available um but one of the first things that we had extensive discussions about was making uh recommending that the charter be a little more user friendly um the current Charter is very wordy um in our opinion it was kind of difficult for the average

uh person to read and understand so we wanted to make it user friendly we also wanted to embrace um citizen um participation and input um we felt that the current Charter is real wordy uh difficult for a lot of people to follow and it was missing things like a table of contents and you know definitive definitions and so uh one of the first things that we really went about changing was the whole format of it if

you look at the Old Charter and look at the new one you have it it has the table of contents it um delineates you know all the sections and the current Charter does that but I uh we felt that the recommendation was to really make it much more user friend friendly um we did save the city $40,000 I know that that was one of the points of contention with

one of our members that um the last time the charter was revised it cost the city a substantial amount of money for the assistance of an outside entity uh to review it and make recommendations so uh I'd like to start out by saying we saved uh we saved the city $40,000 we we had no M budget we didn't need it the city was very generous in printing up anything we needed um but going through the new

Charter and just to point out just a a couple of the big changes we made um as I I'm assuming all of you are aware the current Charter um underwent a couple challenges in court and one of them was the I'll call it the hetler decision and uh just a little background uh the new Charter went into effect at a special election on November 7th and at that time on the same ballot November of 2017

in November of 2017 on that same ballot was the approval for the new Charter the current one and the uh uh the citizen hetler was firefighter who was also a school Committee Member and he ran for reelection and won and uh Corporation Council issued an opinion and told Mr hetler that he could finish out his term but he wouldn't be able to be reelected and he challenged that um and the court

took action on it immediately normally uh constitutional appeals take years to uh render a decision um but the court found that that particular Charter provision violated his first amendment right and um they went on to say that although the public interest and the voters had voted to approve that Charter that particular section in the charter that prohibited him from running again was

unconstitutional um so that was one of the areas that we changed um uh that uh particular section comes up a few times in our current Charter it's under the prohibition sections um and so we took the all the prohibition sections we only made one and um it does not our language is no one even a city employee is not prohibited from running from any elected position and uh because the first

amendment encompasses you know speech religion uh assembly and the case law over the years always interprets a lot of those and one of them is your right to run for office and so the hetler decision said yeah that particular portion of the for River Charter is unconstitutional even though the voters approved that char Charter uh the court felt that the public interest did not outweigh his constitutional right under

the First Amendment to run for that office so we did change that the other uh section in the charter that was challenged in court was the 10 taxpayers versus JayZ career and what happened is the taxpayers petitioned the court to um uh Mr carer was recalled and our current Charter reads that any elected official can be recalled if the procedure is followed and he was recalled and the current

Charter says you're going to have a recall uh election and then you're going to have your um uh what's the word special election for you know somebody to be voted into that recalled position and what happened is that despite the fact that Mr career was recalled in the top portion of that ballot as everybody knows he won the majority vote and was reelected we uh at the Char the special

Charter commission um first of all we had a lot of public input on that and I have to tell you one of the things are uh just because somebody's convicted of a felony doesn't mean they can't run for office and that's from president of the United States to uh school committee city council or mayor of Fall River so we knew that we can't prohibit anybody from running but what we did was uh our

recommendation is that there be uh two elections we worked with Ryan lions from the um elections commission and um certainly we didn't want to do anything that couldn't practically be done right so they uh it's almost the same procedure requiring the same amount of cures and petitions and it has to follow through the same way it's done so if an elected official is the subject of a

recall that that is an election all of its own the recall election will take place and if that individual is recalled within 45 or 60 days there will be a special election I'm paraphrasing there are there are time and date uh parameters to that if the person is recalled within the first 180 days uh if you go through this this new recommended Charter you'll see the time changes in

there if it's within like near the end of the term um and then what we did was um if the person is recalled we refer uh you to the vacancy in an office section uh for instance if the mayor is recalled then the president of the council will fill in as mayor until such time as either a special election takes place or the rest of the term depending on the

time Factor the rest of the term is completed um and and and we we recommend it that way one lot of public input two what that lawsuit said was well your Charter doesn't speak to it sorry he was recalled and he was reelected but the current Charter you have is silent on that and the court was not going to interfere with the Democratic process and one of the things we felt as a

committee and there was a lot of discussion is yes it's costly for two special elections but the but really how almost every member felt was you really can't put a price on Democracy if the voters are speaking you know in a recall election um then we'll have a separate election for that office and we we made some changes to the vacancy one of the other issues that came up during Mr

career's tenure as mayor was uh trying to get him to you know uh get trying to get him out of office without a recall and so some of the things we put in there is that um we have a time frame uh God forbid somebody gets ill and can't perform their duties of their elected position if they are unable to be present and and do their job we put a 21

day kind of cap on that if you're unavailable uh unable to perform your duties for 21 days that office is deemed vacant and and and the vacancy provision of the uh recommended Charter changes really delineate that um other than that those were the big ones we changed excuse me just one second so let's say he gets better on the 25th day does he reassume the position or does he lose it

completely because the 21 days have lapsed well I'll go to that I can't remember the exact language um

V was it three so section 3-10 page

19 that's vacancy temporary absence of the mayor um P this is on page 17 section 3-8 temporary AC absence of the mayor whenever by reason of sickness or other cause the mayor is unable to perform the duties of the office for more than 21 consecutive days the president of the city council shall be the acting mayor unless the president of the city council is unable to serve and then we refer you back to 38

and in any event the mayor announces his inability before the expiration of 21 days uh the provision s apply so if he resigns and then 38 goes 38c goes on in the event the city council president is unable to serve as acting mayor the vice president of the city council s serve if the city council president or vice president is unbled the city council that shall elect from among its memberships a council to

serve as acting mayor and then a special election will occur it but the special elections depend on where in that term this vacancy occurred if it's close to the end of the term the acting mayor will will finish the term because there's a general election coming up if it's after I think the 180 days then a special election will be scheduled and then they were answer the question though so on the

25th Day May feels better well on the 21st day if it's 21 consecutive days I get it so if there if I have surgery or some the may have surgery anyone has surgery and he's out for 26 days but he comes back in the 27th day does he lose everything because the president is already going to be the council president acting as mayor correct so he's gone if you out so if you're absent

for three weeks as the mayor due to any ill circum or whatever right right that seems shorter period of time but again these are just recommendations we still we still have a couple meetings scheduled one there's typos in here after reviewing it we have typos we have to fix but those were some of the big areas and plus we wanted to come to the council and get some input yeah appreciate it just want to get that

clarified so we and we'll take note of that so um c c to yeah my only comment on that would be so if somebody has a heart attack needs triple bypass surgery they are not coming back in one days and I don't think somebody should be penalized and lose their position because they had a heart attack and needed bypass surgery right so that's where my sticking point would be um and

and there's other illnesses as well that would that would preclude somebody from you know so I I suppose I don't know if again you know you start getting into uh murky water because now you have exceptions and how many exceptions and how and what exceptions so it gets murky again I just don't I think somebody should be something like that please continue um but like I said we're still

meeting this is just to kind of bring you up to speed this is our very first uh kind of official draft so and that's a good point it was not it really wasn't anything that came up so I we'll certainly um bring it up at the next meeting um a couple of the other things were like on the election ballot right now it's by Lottery we um um uh voted to recommend that it mimic state and

federal alphabetical order um we lowered the amount of signatures our recommendation was to lower the signatures to 100 across the board uh to um uh you know get on the ballot to be a candidate we lowered the percentage of Voters for initiatives and referendums it was 12% of the uh registered voters from the last election which is all thousands so we lowered that to 5% which is still in the thousands but um it's

within 120 120 days we didn't change the time frame we changed the number and again part of it was the theme that was running through a lot of the committee meetings and a lot of the public input was um that people wanted to be able to have a voice be heard and be involved and um there was a lot of discussion about lowering those numbers so more people could be involved um I took some

notes those were kind of the big ones that I can think of do you have any questions if I think of any other big ones I'll I'll blur them out thank you you I think you did a wonderful job those big ones anyone have any questions counc SE five I don't have a question but a comment if somebody wanted to run for office before it was only 50 signatures certified signatures that

you'd need really I thought 50 was fine it gives somebody new the opportunity to get 50 signatures you know to have it for 100 or 150 that it was as of late um it really somebody new coming on board maybe doesn't have that you know ability to get that many signatures and I think everybody should have the opportunity to run I would lower that back to 50 where

it was there was a motion made to for it to go back back to 50 that motion did not pass but when it went to 100 it passed there definitely was a lot of discussion about that as well well 50 or 100 isn't really a big deal but 50 I just think new people coming on board it's difficult and you just got to give them the opportunity to you know get

those signatures and that was a lot of the public input on that too was that you know can we you know can we go back to 50 but after a vote um well I me we compromise 200 we don't even have primaries sometimes because you don't have enough people let running and that would be my thing I mean I remember the days when there were 50 60 people running for city council versus

you know not even having a primary right which is a good thing for us but it's not fair to the public my two cents bring that back and let me just I want to say this because I just came across it one of the big questions were if um somebody if a city employee runs for office do they collect both pays the rules of Ethics govern that and everybody takes that ethics course right

every year and uh we refer to Mass General law on that um that I I believe the language is they can elect which pay they want normally most people will take the the better pay but they can't be compensated twice and so and that wasn't anything that we could put in the charter again because the the uh laws that govern ethics of you know Municipal Employees and appointees um we did not address compensation in

here because it wasn't really in our uh real house to do that c you y i c to coun question yeah my first question is um when's your next meeting we haven't scheduled yet okay no but it's coming up uh because we wanted to do this get some feed back and then when the room's a I can tell you this when the room's available but it'll be sooner than later I mean we uh the

report tells you you know we met on Monday nights and in the beginning um there was a lot of public input and as the as the time went on there was a little less public input um but we met regularly and those meetings went from an hour to two hours every time um and I want to commend uh we had two clerks because there was a lot of uh you know

writing and stuff uh uh Paul masado and uh and Tim um Campos were our clerks and they did a phenomenal job kind of keep track of it you know nine people everybody kind of talking at the same time was a little tough but they all our minutes are online all of our agendas are online every draft we've ever had we made available online um so it it'll be within the next couple

months no the only reason I ask is um I think from my standpoint this is more the time that I would want to have input than before to wait to see what the recommendations were why the recommendations were made I have read some of it I've looked at some of it online um so again just more from that point of view now that now that you've made these decisions now where do

we go from here and how do people feel about the decisions that were made I suppose um I personally I don't have issue with the 100 signatures it's reduced by 50 I don't think a 100 is that difficult to get and on one hand it gives a new person the opportunity to meet new people because it's forcing them out there to to interact with people to get that signature and one of the hardest

things is somebody getting to know who's running um and that's it that's all I have I mean one of the other things we changed is the the current Charter uh will would say things like um uh any uh registered voter is eligible to run for office we were like so an eligible voter from Somerset can run for for River office so we changed language like any registered voter that is a resident of

the city of Fall River um because you know you can litigate anything we're there's never going to be a charter that someone is not going to challenge there were four attorneys you know three attorneys including and four really including uh Allan and uh you know nothing is foolproof litigation wise there's a there's a lawyer or Law Firm out there that if the person comes in can challenge anything so you know uh we

did want to make though those areas of the current Charter that cost the city money were the things we really took as a priority well I think part of the original one too was very often there was not specificity right things would be vague there would be a black a white and a gray area and there was no definitive language that three people could look at and agree that the point was the point

everybody had an interpretation and interpretation leads to court right and and that was one of that was a lot of discussion during the committee meetings is that when we read the old chart Char I mean if you if you go line by line the Old Charter would have a sentence of 15 words just having trying to explain something simple we got it down to like five or six words

and made it plain as day and trust me you know nine committee members everybody would come up with the scenario like you said of interpreting something in the charter and and trust me we had nine takes on that so that was one of the things that was important to us was to make this userfriendly that when you pick it up up and read it it's plain language and anybody picking it up

could figure out what it was trying to say but I won't listen there were areas we had to read two or three times because we were all looking at it going kind of what does this mean we weren't kind of sure you know so I I think the committee did a a a great job we had a we had Tracy and and she's in education and we had Kathy nich

and she's a member of a you know does a lot in the community uh we had three lawyers we had a city counselor we had a school Committee Member I mean we uh we had a lot of people from different areas yeah there's no doubt there was a great committee you guys did an excellent job there there's no doubt do you yeld councelor yes I do councel seat six Council party thank you Mr President so

a couple things uh for just Clarity um before I get into that attorney rsey so the process now is going to be the charter commission is going to I'm assuming have a final report edited in in complete version it comes to to the city council the city council needs to adopt it and then it runs up to the state correct no well honestly the rules aren't real specific the city council

can do with it what they want honestly so the way the charter is written um there's going to be 10e reviews every 10 years um the procedure is almost the same as the fiveyear but they're they're slightly different the composition of the 10-year review will be slightly different I think the city council will have five appointees the next one so you'll have more appointees for the next

Committee in 10 years from now 10 years which now is at actually ends at a seven so we're pretty close on that um the way this is written and you have to kind of read between the lines a little bit in here this is a one-time deal this is the fifth year after a new Charter so it's almost as if this fifth year was designed to to find out uh errors that

errors of a mission that oh my gosh we need to fix this uh we didn't realize that the charter had these problems so the the fiveyear review which is what we have here it's a one-time deal every other time it's going to be 10 years any than seven okay so what they do is they could have met in private and submitted a report and had two public meetings and

then the city council could act on it or just put it on file for the 10e review to look at almost like you know here's some background work that's already been done for you um or can I mean what what it also could do is submit it to the mayor for approval and then it would go to our legislature for a special act but his history usually dictates that the state legislature will not re approve a

special act unless it's also approved by the voters by the voters so this Council has to decide what they want to do with it um now I can tell you the five-year review could have been very basic this group did a phenomenal job I mean they met every meeting I believe was in public nothing was behind closed doors um and they met over 20 times so they didn't just put this together in five

minutes um so I mean I think what's probably the my recommendation is to it should be posted on the website provide for a little additional time for both the city council and the public to review it online and make additional recommendations and then this Council can decide hey we should make this change right away we don't need to wait for the 10 year or they can just put it on file and then have the report ready

for the 10e okay so at what point in this discussion should you decide as an example discuss term limits if that is the will of the committee is that the appropriate time to do it in the year ending in seven or if we wanted to do that now I'm not saying that I'm just using this as an example well they they disc we disc everything was everything's on the table both I mean as I said five

year or 10 year everything's on the table but if they wanted to make a change let's just say you wanted to change the form of government for example right could you could do that within the charter commission and it comes to the city council do we have to adopt that I think the city council can can make changes to the recommendation as this city council sees fit and then send it up to the mayor

for uh you know approval and then it can be decided whether or not it wants to be put on file or what whether it wants to be sent to the legislature as a special act it it goes to the Attorney General's office first let's just say the mayor says okay and the council says okay it goes to the municipal Law Department at the Attorney General first before anybody sees it and they only check it

for conflict with state law they check it and they send it back it doesn't conflict with state laws they neither make recommendations nor to even they'll tell you if there's something wrong with it they'll say okay this conflicts with Mass General law 223 Section 5 and they'll send it back it's after they say no conflict um if in fact you've approved it let's say you make recommendations you want us to

reconsider our recommendation on um the vacancy in the mayor right and we go back and meet uh uh or you say we'd like you to discuss term limits right um whatever document it is that's finally submitted and approved is the one that will go up and only after it passes muster at the Attorney General's office could it be submitted for a special act I can tell you if term limits is part of

the real question uh there was a meeting and a half on term limits and what was the result of that it stayed the same and like I said the minutes are online all the meetings were uh televised so I'm assuming that they're all available to view and a motion I think motion was made in or maybe a mo maybe it didn't even make it to motion I don't believe it might have

not even made it to motion to increase term limits the other thing we discussed a lot increase ter the term of office term of office and that wasn't discussed so so if you take the mayor's office for example there was no discuss question about making it a fouryear term for mayor with only two terms there was discussion there was just no motion made how come because the majority of the members I think there was only

two I wanted to inrease it and there was only I only had one person that said yeah that's a great idea I can tell you that because it's it's all public it's for public record I wanted to increase the time counselors mayor um wanted to increase the time you're in office I was a very minority there was only one other that was supportive I think I think it was you I don't yeah I don't necessarily

so you know we discussed it and I don't even think it made it to motion because we could tell by the discussions that uh most were opposed to it we also discussed limits on terms let's say you're a city councelor for 20 elections right that didn't make it to motion the other thing we discussed was Ward versus at large right because we we would always discuss what we got a lot of

public input on I mean don't get me wrong we went through every section discussed it all one of the other public inputs we had was can we go back to Ward which is how it was very early on uh that never made it to motion either I okay so I I wanted to I I'll I'll read the minutes I guess of the term limits in terms of office if I

would I would send you the dates of it so you don't have to go through all of them but yeah I would urge you to restart that conversation if you have an interest in having mayoral term limits or the length of office if you want to re start that conversation and see if there's a new appetite a year later um it's just something for discussion because it's often discussed I'm not

saying it's going to get approval by anybody but I just think I'd like to read that I'd like to see that um the other thing I would like to re go into is uh in terms of the city council president's role I noticed that you made the change term to term when you say term to term I know there's always been an issue and when I served up there I recognized that you know that city

council president would have to come down at the start of the new year because that president is sworn in year to year not term to term so it's it was the will of the committee to go for two years for city council president now should the council let's say not saying this is the case but let's just say down the road wants to say well we want to make a change in leadership the city

council's ability to make a change in lead leadership down the road where is that here and so should the council want to go through a change like they did last term council president in the middle of the term what would stop the city council from doing that under this new Charter let me check give me a couple minutes appointments C Council so it's section two under legislation I know there was discussion

about term to term because the current Charter was vague and it was precisely that problem there was like an overlap correct like somebody would no all all it was was we would start the new year and it would we would be be without a city council president for like five years well you have to choose a city council president every year not every ter right right but there was a lag with the dates it there

would be no city council president for five or six days until the city council has their meeting and a council president so if we don't have the council president's term ends January 1st if we don't have a meeting until January 23rd there's no council president from January 1st to January 23rd so my my question is do we revote or we are as your as the body's suggestion to do term to

term and if the council wants to change its leadership down the road what do we do it's in two2 we did discuss that that's why we made the change it's in I mean I think what you're referring to Miss Brown is 2.2 22 right Council I think that my answer to your question is I mean if it's in the charter um your ordinance can't change that but if it's not in the charter you

know the city council makes their own rules for their own meetings you can you can change that on no right so let me ask a different question very very clear why me to explain it real clear counselor right now this the word is the council will serve as council president till the end of the year if you change the language and say the council will serve as council president until a new

council president is voted at the next at the first meeting of the next year that'll fix the problem you'll have a council president up until the new one is elected and that happens at the first city council meeting of every new year put that language in what's that that's the that's how they have this term so just so we're clear I don't want to the court just told me was end of year not term

the summary says term to term but in the charter document itself it says that the president will serve until the next um election of President all right so I I'm sorry I was reading the summary so we're good and it does say that you're correct I was reading the summary it says the president Shall Serve until the first meeting of the next calendar year which is fine okay yes but the charter is

clear good job the did come up a lot and that's why we changed the language to cover because yeah yeah good job all right thank you um uh another question I have in terms of preliminary elections for for the last couple years we've been you know I know there's been some discussion I'm curious if the charter commission talking about this um when there would be only one race mayor city council

school committee there'd only be one preliminary election or primary for example school committee only and there one wasn't one for mayor or city council right or whatever was there any discussion I don't even know if it's legal to foro a preliminary if you don't have at least more than one uh uh um challenge for office to go from preliminary to your final election in November I think we asked the elections

office about that and I think um the law the voter the Mass general laws dictate that there has to be a preliminary regardless of how many for the office I know that when it came to the elections I can tell you kudos to Ryan Lions he came down three times and answered all our questions um and I believe it came up in discussion and it was that we could not can we find out

eliminate a preliminary dude I don't need like a longw written opinion can we find out about that because I think it's like for example I remember there one year a couple years ago there was no challenge for maybe mayor or city council and then there was one for school committee only so we spent what 60,000 on an election for um just school committee for example right so to me that is

concerning so under what Massachusetts law is it out there that we are to um not have a preliminary have a preliminary right do you know attorney rsey I I think attorney Brown's correct on this but I can't say with 100% certain I know that I pulled the Mass general laws I I I'll get the mass I'll get the statute for you all right good because it doesn't make any will doesn't

make sense um but like I said um we were pretty grateful Ryan Lions came down three times and explained everything about election processes time frames costs procedure um he's a wealth of information and we'll find out um okay and and I absolutely all right one thing I would like to also speak about is this um I remember vividly uh when we went through the whole jel Saga and trust me

it was a saga right um we had to deal with all that nonsense and I remember there was this tip for tap between me when I was serving as acting mayor and the chairman of the or the vice chairman of the school committee did not want the acting mayor to serve in the capacity of acting mayor to chair over a school committee meeting didn't feel it was necessary didn't feel it was appropriate

so I just said I'm I'm not fighting with you I have no interest in doing that just run your meeting so my question is in the case that the mayor would step aside and the city council president is acting mayor and essentially did have all powers of the mayor would that city council president SL acting mayor serve in the capacity as chairman of the school committee did you discuss that well we kept the language

we didn't change any of the language regarding what the acting mayor can do so if the school committee said you could they were violating the charter right but we kept the language the acting mayor shall exercise all the rights and powers of the mayor shall be sworn to the faithful discharge of the mayoral duties any City councelor serving as acting mayor under this section shall not have the words

candidate for re-election printed if you're U running again and but we also put in there that the acting counselor who's the mayor gets the mayor's pay because that was another issue people were discussing about well if the pre council president is serving as the mayor does he get the mayor's pay yeah whoever's acting as the mayor under our recommendation is that that acting mayor

gets mayor pay so what happens get to do everything the mayor does what happens to the seat of the counselor who takes the mayor's job is that become and if that's V so and we we answered that into vacancy if any elected position is vacant it's the next vote getter that sits into that it sits in that spot okay so in a situation like happened with jel where he just decided you know I'm I'm

going to still keep my pay I'm still going to be mayor finish out the term the council president jumps in he wouldn't have been able to keep his pay because he would have had to resign from office Council president would get the mayor job and then you would have filled that vacant City Council seat with the next one with the next one in okay all right last question I have recall I know

there was some discussion about recalling elected officials in this uh in this and I see I see the first comment about 10 taxpayer lawsuit as the first thing yes um can you elaborate a little bit I mean is it essentially in summary is it easier going to be easier to recall an elected official we kept the same numbers you want to answer that one I don't think it's easier you lower the numbers of

votes necessary by 5% what happens after the recall is what we dealt with right so I I'm more interested in hearing about if if somebody wants to recall a politician a school Committee Member city council or mayor they go to a 10 taxpayer lawsuit it goes before the city clerk the city council decides and then we have a recall what am I reading that right I'm getting there let me get there what number was

the recall it was eight uh 8-5 is the recall 8-5 any holder no recall uh within three months after they take their office is that new hang on any 10 tax any 10 voters of the city may follow at the city clerk the Affidavit of who they want to recall and then hang on copy of the petition so then the recall after the city clerk certifies the 10 taxpayers those 10 taxpayers have to go out and

within 20 days have to get 5% of the general the last general election voters signatures we prior it was 10% correct right what what went into that discussion let me see let me see what the old one I was I'm just I believe it was 10 to the council president's point so the last one the the current Charter that we're operating under also has 5% so it was 5% for the

last Rec Fiasco so 5% of the total amount so if 11,000 people voted you would need 5% of 11,000 people those same 11,000 people or 5% of 11 no register register register voters came out all right that came out so if 11,000 came out they we you know they would get the numbers from the election commission how many you know registered voters came out it would be 5% of that and that's

the current Charter too that's how the last recall was we didn't change the procedure in the recall we just separated the elections okay makes sense you get what she said councelor yeah I get it yeah we did we didn't change the procedure of all we just separated them because okay the 10 taxpayers beef was this guy just got reelected and he was recalled and the court said so sorry your Charter says

that's how it goes it's silent on it so we're it's not silent anymore we're gonna have two elections so in that recall election if the person is not recalled they keep the office and they keep during that process got it okay I yeld thanks thank you counc counc T1 counc so I guess just to clarify that it says 5% of the voters not the voters that came out right so register

at the time of the okay because that's a big difference 5% 45,000 and we might have to clean that up I mean you're you're right we most of the places that asked for a percentage of the voters we were specific like in a citizen initiative it's um I mean that Lang that language is similar to if you GNA you're gonna do a charter commission right so you got to get 5% of the voters

right all that so so I we I think we should bran that up so then the the only I guess question statement that I would have is in regards to the uh term limits or um extensions of term terms um I don't know that I i' support four years for city council terms I don't know that I want to serve for for four years but uh has has dur during that conversation

and discussion I I do I personally do feel that the the mayor's term should be four years there's there's no way that you get can get an executive well let me take a step back I think we should change a form of government and I don't think we should have a mayor I think we should have a town manager that's just just my opinion um I I think it professionalizes what we need it takes

the politics out of our realm of being political um so that being said if if that doesn't change and we have uh an elected mayor who's going to run and be the executive of a of the city I do feel that four years is the best way to do it and when you start talking about strategic planning things of that nature I think you need at least a minimum of four

years you can't put together a plan and then have to worry about an election and I think that partly uh contributes to the the political aspects of what we see uh very very often so I I guess I would I would ask that we have those conversations and the discussions the other piece I would I would ask at least from the city council standpoint and potentially the school committee is is

has any discussion on thought been given to mimic uh what towns do so um we don't have because we have all nine City councils that go up at once and we all run at the same time um so what towns do do is they break it up so you'll have three run one year three run the next year and if you have a five member board one person would run by themselves um

and that so every year there's an election but you don't lose the historical knowledge um so I think that might be something that might be um something we should consider because with a nine member Council you could have three councilors up every single year but they could potentially serve three terms uh three years for a term as opposed to a two-year uh so you kind of extend it a little bit or even if it's

four years but you get it into a situation where every year there's somebody up so that there are there are there's an opportunity for people that want to run for for office they have the they have that opportunity every single year so and and we had a former mayor on the commission too and um and you know and he brought to the table you can't get much done in two years you know the

you you get elected and you're it takes you that long to really put a good team together right and the next thing you know you're kind of concentrating re-election again halfway through that so you know um and it's was four years ago I mean trust me you know I brought information to kind of back up my argument that we really need to think about this because you know that mayor position is is one that really takes

time to get stuff done right and you know and we had a former mayor to give his input on that we grabbed Charters from other surrounding towns too you know to kind of uh show us where to go with stuff and I'm a big fan of it too I I I would you know trust me I try it I'll bring it back to the table too because you know um if if the majority of counselors are

you know want us to take a look at our term limits I'd be more than happy to city manager is the way to go I'm just saying I'm just saying I mean there are there are there are municipalities in the state of Massachusetts and you look at yeah how how successful they are um there's a common denominator in terms of that and I think that's a a professional manager to run the day-to-day operation of of

the city and and remove the politics a lot talk about it there was a lot of talk about going back to Wards let's go back to get people from different parts of the city trust me there was a lot of talk about it I do want to point one thing out that we did in here one of the other public inputs were so you violate the chter no big whoop and so we did put

some language in there uh kind of um explaining a process for a charter violation like when when um Council P was mayor in the school St and you can't preside over the school committee meeting that's a blatant violation of the Char he was just afraid to fight maybe it was just him I don't know but anyway fighting for four years um we put together a three panel grievance committee and so what happens

is you know the mayor is entrusted and the city councils are entrusted with enforcing the charter and making sure it's followed if a charter violation if somebody becomes aware of it they send a written notification to the mayor the mayor then um kind of puts together a letter lets that person know by the way you're violating the charter knock it off right now and if that keeps continued then this three it's the city

council picks somebody the mayor picks somebody and the school committe picks somebody and then that Charter grievance committee gets together public hearing reviews the charter violation makes a recommendation one of the things that uh we could not do in the charter is penalize people for it I was a big fan of penalizing people uh well because if if you find them they might not do it

again right uh but we can't we can't do that so we did start because that was a lot of public input like you know where's the teeth in this Charter well if you violate the constitution of the United States there's a process for you to challenge those violations it's go it's filing a lawsuit and and the charter does refer that you can do summary process which is a fancy name for a lawsuit if you think somebody's

violating the charter you can do that so that was another big thing we kind of recommended okay he yo thank you thank you let me just say a couple of things on what I've heard so far four years for mayor term to me I wouldn't change it at all can you imagine four years as a career Administration that we just had you we talk about we want new people to

run for office we want new people to get involved if a mayor has the ability to hire people for the next four years because he just got elected and put his staff in place and people in place you know how it's going to get that person out like trying to get a congressman out with those fouryear terms and sixe terms in senators and congressmen they're there for 35 40 years now if we have an

election every two year two years and the mayor's doing a good job he's going to get reelected but if the mayor's not doing a good job you got two years to get out of him there was a four-year ter for years ago well before I was around and everyone will tell you it was the most corrupt Administration they had seen that's why they got rid of it within the first four years they went

back to twoyear terms there's nothing wrong we talk about term limits we have term limits now we serve two-year term you want to run for re-election you run you don't want to run for re-election you got to you you you got to run with everyone else I wouldn't change it four years is an awful long time and guess what you get the wrong person there for four years and he gets reelected that's

eight years of the wrong person being in that sea that's an awful long time so I know I've served here for a long time but it's two years at a time and the public decides who's going to serve here two years at a time it it's a lot might be a little bit more work but it's well worth it to give the public that opportunity to put the wrong people out

of office and put the right people in office as far as Ward counselors not a fan either because you have people living across the street from each other and everyone in their neighborhood's got to fight for who they want to support and then you get two great candidates but because they're in the same ward only one of them can be chosen not a good idea just choose the best people in the city that want to run

for office um that's all I have to say for now that what we spoke earlier about the time 21 days of the mayor not being able to serve I would like to see a minimum of 45 days at a minimum um something that I would support but the council will it says we can send it with a recommendation I would hold off on making any recommendation maybe just table this until they do more of their due

diligence and come back with changes and then present to the council back then but I just wanted to make those points out because I'll tell you honestly does anyone in the city would like to see a four-year career term motion to table city manager second thank you listen just let me tell you one thing though honestly everyone in that chter Review Committee you guys did a phenomenal job outstanding job uh

a lot of hard work went into it I want to commend all of you for what you did and your time you put into it thank you very much thank you thank you and you know we didn't get a chance to say happy birthday to counselor Samson happy birthday man happy birthday counselor that's not true I I wish there a happy birthday motion to table has been made is there a second second all in favor

any opposed motion carries thank you thank you very much thank you for all your hard work we appreciate

it item number three convey the city administrator and the administration Community utilities to discuss overdue Water Service payments owed to the city of fora from the town of Westport adopted on 924 2024 please state your name and address for the record so we'll have it and just Mr F if you could just bring us up to speed on where we are with that please Seth Aken City administrator

uh Paul furland the administrator of community utilities so uh the council was provided a letter with a summary of uh the past du count from uh the town of Westport this dates back to uh and beginning in 2016 uh when the uh accuracy of the water meter at the Town Line was put in question by the town of Westport um the town of Westport uh has the ability within the agreement

to uh bleed off water as the city does for water quality purposes um um they do do that at Meed locations throughout their whole entire system back at that time some of the meters the accuracy of those meters were in question as well as the record keeping uh by the town of the amount of water that was bled from those meters so there was uh some questions back in 2016 uh coming up uh in 2016

there was a 3-month period where the Town Line meetle was out of service the uh city of FL River and Westport agreed for a three-month period for payments of $88,000 per month uh for those three months and those three months only uh once that period was over the town of Westport continued to pay uh the $88,000 per month for a period of time uh this went up until about 2020 uh different various payments uh were made

by the town um and uh when a new town administrator came in in the town of Westport uh they were uh they wanted to come up to speed with uh the the account uh make sure that all the meters that they were bleeding water from were reading properly uh we know that the town meter was reading proper properly at that time we had uh accuracy checks done back in

2016 uh so from then on we set up a new account starting in the beginning of 21 calendar year 21 uh since then uh they have provided us all of the appropriate data for the uh bleeding of water uh within the town that we've been able to credit to their account uh and their account since uh January of 21 has been uh fully up to date if there are any discrepancies

between the town and uh what the water department has uh we make sure that the discrepancies are taken care of uh right uh immediately and that uh the correct payments are made and applied to the the account so that current account is uh fully up to date since 21 uh and has not had any past or overdue bills so really what we're talking about is a period uh

back in 2016 up until uh 2020 the end of 2021 um so there was uh we had an account within munus and the way that munus works the account goes in uh the charges go in what what is put in um by our staff if we didn't have the available Credit Data or anything like that that couldn't be applied to the bills at the time uh so that account was uh was put in there munus automatically

adds interest to all of the accounts that are that are within there uh the problem with Westport and the intermunicipal agreement with Westport uh interest is not uh talked about within the intermunicipal agreement uh with the town of Westport so uh it's silent to that uh as as well as penalties uh and everything else so we've gone through uh we did a full evaluation of the account dating all the way back to

2016 uh charges payments uh everything uh we provided that to Westport Westport went through that and we had discussions over the past couple of years uh about uh where to uh where we felt what was due to the city uh and what what support felt uh they uh would do to the city um we kind of came to a uh a standstill at one point uh that's when uh the town uh

and may May's representative uh was brought uh brought in in uh re most recently we've come up with an agreement of the amount due to the city of Fall River uh the amount due is uh comp comparable to what their current usage is of minus the amount that they paid over those past years is if we were to take and project that out based on what their current usage is U measured at the

Town Line um so that's what the uh settlement that was uh proposed uh by us uh to Westport Westport tentatively accepted at this point uh the settlement uh amount has been in front of the water board and the water board has approved that amount counc seat 7 CC propos on Mr furland I guess the biggest question I have is it seems like there's been a back and forth between Westport and Fall

River for quite some time yes but nowhere in the M intermunicipal agreement is there any language about who who's the third party that deals with the issue so forver says one thing Westport says another who's the independent third party that deems who's right who's wrong well again so if it were to get that to that point where there would be an inass um again I would seek legal

counsel on on where to go if if we felt we got to that point and Seth may be able to answer sorry to lay that on you but no not at all so I think it's important to note that from 1986 when Westport first started purchasing water through 2013 the inter Municipal agreements were were regularly updated in 2013 U there was a new Municipal agreement put into place which was not

updated once the dispute started in 16 so it should have been updated probably it wasn't um and because the dispute has been ongoing we haven't changed the agreement we haven't updated it however um this settlement um is subject only to westport's agreement that they would execute a new Municipal agreement with us where we would fill in the holes because there are holes uh the fact that

it doesn't provide for interest uh and fines and penalties and whatever else the way an ordinary taxpayer purchasing water would have to pay right um you know the fact that uh it's silent as to those things which you know I love the good faith it's it's wonderful to say hey the you know we're two towns we're you know a city and a town we're going to try our best to to be fair and act in

good faith but when you reach an impass like you said there's got to be things spelled out uh any contract would actually have an arbitration clause or some sort of clause that says who uh determines that so um what we do going forward uh now that there's a general agreement as to what that the dollar amount would have been uh had they paid for the water they should have paid for

and been charged back for the water they discharged um which is just just under $300,000 um the uh the idea is that we'll execute a new intermunicipal agreement that doesn't leave so much to the imagination okay so you stated Mr fand that what of water board has agreed to this number yes where is the Westport Town Council stand uh so from what I've been told by the Town Administrator

they've had discussions and they've tentatively accepted the agreement tentatively but not officially again so there we haven't put an agreement in front of them it just went in front of the water board the other day so now we put an agreement together and provide that to them so what's the timeline on the agreement and then a timeline on a new intermunicipal agreement so again with the intermunicipal agreement uh

their actual one expired in 23 it says that it goes year to year uh every until a uh new intermunicipal agreement uh is reached so my expectation would be uh over the next uh month you know we'd get an agreement in place for the settlement amount and we'd uh draft an in ipal agreement to put in front of them uh the intermunicipal agreements do need to go uh water board approval and Council

approval as well and do they follow budget year of of July to June or not necessar not necessarily budget year no okay they whenever it's made entally yeah typically when they're executed uh the more recent ones that we've done with other towns have been a 10-year term with a uh potential for a 10year extension thank you I yield thank you counc counc C5 CC stand up this really gets me if they're not paying interest

and late charges like every single resident in FL River has to pay if they late on their water bill and to say that it's not you know it wasn't in the agreement but the agreement in section 32 basically says that they have to secure compliance system with users and standards provided within this agreement or otherwise could be amended but to ensure Conformity with the requirements of any agencies of the city so the

city's agency has that in that that they have to pay an interest fee or a late fee or what have you for this to go on for 10 years and I'll be honest with you I looked at the summary that you submitted uh Mr ferin and when this was first done you weren't in your position now so it's not against you but it says on multiple occasions for River has demanded to get records where are those

multiple occasions the correspondence could we see them I can provide copies I would like to see copies of that and I would like legal to take a look at at this if the meter wasn't working properly then that meter should have been fixed right away how much water did they use Westport everybody that's on getting water they have to pay a bill what is the payments that they're getting every year have we

you know I heard it was 1.7 million and all of a sudden then I heard well the city thinks 1.7 we think 300,000 and then the settlement when was a water board meeting on this last Wednesday last Wednesday however prior to that a resolution was filed by myself and councelor Dion so why would they even talk about it when you knew we were going to be talking about it here so they've already voted on

it so it's mute point to come before us now if we knew that this was an issue you should have held off taking you 10 years to come up with an agreement but all of a sudden we put in a resolution and boom We settled it for 297,000 and you know they're going to need water again so that contract better be airtight because this is a disservice to the people of Far River and I know it

wasn't just you it went from John friy to Terry to you that nobody took an initiative and I'd like to see how many times were we knocking at their door for money they you know they have the money they're going to need more water they've got problems I know they have problems on Sanford Road and they have problems on on uh GF gford Road they're going to need us but if they're not going to play fair

with us that's not right one of the Selectmen didn't even know until he called you and had a conversation with with you about extending pipes he didn't even know that this bill hadn't been paid and I know they blamed it on the Old Town Administrator now there's a new Town Administrator who works for us I know him very well it just just doesn't feel right to me how do people owe us money for 10

years and there's a broken meter and and it's not fixed and then I know if it's over 80 they've got to reduce the valve if it's under 80 they've got to open the valve and if they're flushing it who's there to see when they flush that meter how much water is getting out of there and what they're not charged for if we're flushing a meter does Idan owe his money

no good anybody else owe us money not that I'm wor because I hate going in there are a lot of people that owe us money well but I hate going into you know and you know I didn't vote for the water increases because I hate going into people's pockets but you know we are going to raise our residents raise their water rates when we've got money hanging out there I'm

sorry I really would like to table this get a legal opinion because I think they should have paid his interest or a fee if you have been and other people have been connecting with them and they're ignoring us then I think they owe us more and I'd like to see what the language is on there if whether or not I mean has Corporation Council looked at this language in this and said oh yeah

it's not in there has anybody contacted um the attorney that wrote this up has anybody talked to attorney Souza to see what was the intent of this I just think it's I don't know I just have an issue with it because sometimes you know we do things for others and not for our own that's how I kind of feel on this and I'd like to see what what was going back and forth with

people you have the emails I mean you're not going to get 10 years 10 uh years of emails but at least give me two with that I yield than1 so just a couple of notes on that uh our town meter we believe was always working the meters within Westport aren't the city's responsibility those are the town of Westport if those weren't reading properly weren't functioning properly and again we sent

them correspondents telling them that we felt they weren't working properly they should check them so you see that correspondence that would be really helpful yeah no not a problem thank you um thank you mrman I yield thank you counc Council C1 Council kazim yeah I don't disagree with my colleague I guess the the first question what we have no real obligation to provide water to the town of Westport

that's true right I mean when they stop paying we don't have an obligation to keep pump so from my if you have a contract you do well even just read the contract we can we can cancel it says term the term of this agreement shall continue for 10 years from the date of execution at the end of the 10-year term the agreement shall continue for year to year there after provided however that

either party May terminate the same on December 31st of any year by giving written notice on or before June 30th of such year so the minute the minute we didn't receive payment we should have terminated them and tell them to figure out where they're going to get their water stop digging Wells do whatever you need to do there are communities without a water district um I don't agree with

the the abatement if you're telling us because at the end of the day you know I don't disagree with my colleagues we we get we get residents that come before us and and when they have leaks don't know about leaks they're paying $1,000 $2,000 and we had to put an an ordinance in to try to help alleviate some of those issues where if you have a a multif family you know your tenant is not

notifying you of a of a leaky toilet or something like that but the fact that another municipality I mean because at the end of the day if we weren't paying Westport they would have been kicking down out door right so the fact that they have you have a municipality that's owes us close to $500,000 and and and probably the issue I think ultimately comes down to and it's it's over an eight-year

period or seveny year period whatever it was you know I'm sure they got to go back to town meeting and then have a conversation to pay prior year bills and things like that becomes an issue for them but that being said I I I don't know how we we tolerate it in in terms of if we feel that the The Meters themselves are working then i' I'd go back to Westport and say this is what we

want and moving forward on any agreement um I I think number one it should be interest number two if they want to question anything it should be similar to an inment process for real estate tax um they need to if they want to question a bill they have to pay it prior to us even have a conversation about whether or not we're going to Abate it because

at the end of the day I mean and and and flushing out water why is it our responsibility for the flushing out water that's their system right so why are we giving them reduction tell them to to Loop their system you know there's there's another number of con conversations that could be had but to to do a reduction because they need to to flush out systems because their systems have dead ends

quite frankly is not the the problem of the city of FL river right we're providing water and that's that's where we should be and I don't think that they should get any special breaks um from any other resident and I know they pay more than than what the uh residents of fora pay but I just I just find it I just find it disheartening that working with a new uh another municipality right just

understanding what we have to do on a day-to-day having a municipal agreement in place and to have a no no payments from um 2016 to 2021 I just you know I I I to me is a is is a slap in the face and I don't know I I wouldn't support it I don't know that we have any say I think this all falls with the uh the water board right yes sir so I would

highly encourage the water board to to say that we're not giving any reduction that $597,000 is what we we need to be paid um I'd also send a bill with interest on it so the contract is silent okay but it's also silent saying that we can't but that we're not doing it right that we we we're prohibited from from charging interests and tell them if if they don't want to pay it then we shut

it off at the uh the line who do you think's going to they're running to pay right because I don't know how many accounts they have I'm sure they want their residents to have water right so from my standpoint Pony up the $600,000 I we talk about this your department needs money that's $600,000 right I I just shut it off that that's that's my statement that would have been my statement as as a city administrator

I would have told them in the meeting point blank that's just you don't want you don't want to pay $600,000 we're shutting on shut we're closing the water you have the right to to do it to Residents we don't do it but you have the ability in the ordinance if a a city resident does not pay for water that we can go right to the street and shut off the water to their house

so I say shut it off till we get $600,000 that's just me that I Y thank you counc counc C2 counc DF yeah um I totally support what was Council in seat one just stated um it it it's crazy my um I'm glad to see though that in the discussions you're going to put it in writing I'm assuming with the penalties and interest moving forward my only other thing is the for water

department question the accuracy and quality of westport's recordkeeping reporting and meter maintenance this has to be the only situation I've ever seen where the supply doesn't keep the records doesn't do the reporting doesn't do the maintenance and tell them how much the user owes the user is doing what the supplier normally does that's how I'm reading this is that correct it's not totally accurate so

there's two meters there's a meter at the Town Line that we Monitor and then there's meters within Westport that they monitor um so they have Personnel that do some of this work and report back we have Personnel to do some of this work and report back um I mean I suppose you know in a in what at least to me would be an extremely sort of cynical way of doing business we could send our people over

there at all times to monitor because we just don't trust them to give us the right information um I think the fact that both sides were were basically collaborating uh to get a reading and they questioned our meter we question their meter um that's really what contributed to the The Fairly lengthy um you know breakdown in effective communication at least that's what I'm gathering I mean you've looked at the

correspondence uh and then to add to things they're they attempted to do this compromise position where $8,000 a month will be paid that was for three months and then unfortunately they were allowed to continue paying that for some period of time thereafter which was never the intent so there's no question uh to councelor Kim's point that there were there was things that were done not in

good faith but I don't believe in meeting bad faith or bad faith um so we tried to compromise yeah well if I may I don't think I'm looking at it as a matter of trust or mistrust so let's use for an example National Grid National Grid supplies the city with electricity every house has a meter there's meters in City Hall and everywhere else who monitors those meters who determines what the bill is National Grid or does

the city say well we monitor these meters so let's see if we agree on what our me both what the meters read and I don't know if I'm asking the question right saying it right the comparison doesn't or it's not even close well it just it doesn't uh resonate personally I mean I don't I don't think it's the same right I think here we have two separate organizations one saying yeah we'll sell

a service to you but simply because of logistics you have to give us some information about what's happening um and and I actually I I think the utilities example could work if you think about um a homeowner that has to you know go down in their basement and report back to whether it's a gas company or you know who whoever it is something that the company itself can't read inside the house right because that

certainly it used to be yeah it's how it used to be right so that's probably to me a closer approximation uh and unfortunately what happened is and this is you know I think before both our times the origin of this problem um is that it wasn't being done effectively at some point and both sides alleged that the other was not either was not maintaining good information or didn't have effective equipment to get the

information correctly um and I'm not saying that's an okay thing it's it's absolutely not but I think from a logistics standpoint to say okay Fall River workers now need to go into Westport to check on Westport meters regularly now to do it once a quarter or you know once a month that makes all the sense in the world you know trust but verify right so did we do that quarterly

I don't believe or did we not do it at all think we at the beginning of this we did it at all okay um and so when you know Paul took up the mantle um you know starting in 21 and said all right at the very least you got to start paying like we'll figure out that fiveyear lapse because that's a huge problem but at the very least we can't continue to build up

the debt um got them back on the correct payment um and the benefit of that I think arguably we can say whether it's a benefit or not is that we actually got some metrics as to how much water they were using and how much they were just charging um and the thing about the discharge is that you know notwithstanding all the other concessions that may have been made you know regarding this particular agreement

the discharge is something that was part of the contract and so you know agree or not that was something that was agreed to long before the lapse um you know where they you know there was certain uh requirements for water quality that had to be discharged and so there was an agreement to you know let them have a credit for that discharge because they weren't using the water good bad or indifferent that was the

agreement so we're trying to honor at least the spirit of that um but I think you know the point is well taken that there wasn't somebody checking and there should have been somebody checking and so part of whatever we do now and frankly since 2021 there has been a much closer monitoring uh and I give you know Mr furland credit for saying this has to stop stopping it and then putting in

place processes where it'll not not happen again and with the new intermunicipal agreement it definitely won't happen again because they'll even be better um constraints on what happens if there's a lapse it certainly can't go on for five years that's been that's crazy okay thank you that I yield thank you Mr ferland do you know if Westport the people who have does anyone have two

meters with a backflow device on some of those are we monitoring those at all there's a number of residents in for river that have two meters one for their lawn one for their household and they use a backflow device do you know are we monitoring that at all I'm not sure whether Westport has typically in Fall River we call it a sprinkler meter so if somebody sprinkles their lawn they can have a second meter

where there's not a sewer charge um I'm not aware that second meter requires a backflow device and then this shall charge you $50 a year for that yes for do we not know whether westport's implementing that at all so in the inter Municipal agreement and per Mass General law any registered water system has to have a backflow program in place um for River specific we have we allow separate

sprinkler meters uh other communities don't allow that it's just whatever goes into your house if you use if you tap your sprinkler off off afterwards we have that program for our residents I'm not sure whether Westport has a program like that sprinkle meters or not they typically most of the time in Westport too um you got to remember that their residents are only charged for the water

rate not the soil not the sewer because most of their residents aren't AR sewer and the other thing to note is too just within the current intermunicipal agreement that's in place um the mockup is 70% over our residential rate they don't pay the same as our residents they pay us right off the bat what goes through the town line 70% higher than what our residents pay thank you Council

CD counc Samson I just wanted to put uh my piece in that I I absolutely support my colleages in this um you know we don't get support from our surrounding communities they don't come over they never rescue us they're never looking to give us any help whether it be housing affordable housing anything and the fact that they didn't pay their water bill I mean not to just be a dead horse but

people come down before us all the time and so and now we're going to pass this and give them a $300,000 uh deduction because they didn't pay and they didn't look and their Med is I don't care if they paid you a thousand times more than the Fall River residents I I just don't that's that's their bill they should have paid it they should have looked at it and I support counselor Kadeem and they shut

it off if they don't want to pay it shut it off I think we have t-shirts made that say shut it off I just think it's it's awful pay their bill so I just wanted to say that um and it's not that often I think a lot of us may all agree on the same thing but this may be something that you know doesn't look too good so with that I yield thank you

councelor counc C6 Cy thank you Mr President all right so just so I'm clear the uh proposed settlement has tentatively been accepted by the town of Westport subject to the vote um here's my here's my thoughts and and first first off this is like years and years in the making right so I unfortunately Mr furland sitting here taking all the wax tonight because you know it's been going on for years and

years and I I want to appreciate the proactiveness that you're probably starting to do now because it wasn't happening before so unfortunately you both are sitting here getting whacked around should we have shut the water off or not I don't know did the mayor give a directive to the to his um department head to go shut the water off in Westport probably not right so like there's there's probably a lot involved

and you've been pretty mum on the fact that you haven't gone to shut the water off for an apparent reason whatever that may be I don't know we don't need to get into it we can talk about what we're going to do going forward but what I would like to do whether it's by a motion between this body back to the wapa waterboard or uh the yeah the WAP of waterboard and then back to the to

the town of Westport is from the council perspective it sounds to me that we're not we are not in favor of your proposed settlement sounds like we want the other $300,000 of money used and I recognize there was a there's probably some loose language here some not so strong language it could have ended up in litigation but at the end of the day we're the ones who have the supply of

water so if we can't come to a term we can shut it off right so with that being said how do we get that other $300,000 because it's a lot of money that can do a lot of good for your budget and a lot of other City budgets we're going to be we're crying we don't have enough money for this we don't have much money for that how do we get that

money if the city would it help if the city council buy it by if the council votes to even though we can't order you to do anything but urge you to re open negotiations with the town of Westport to get that extra $300,000 would that be helpful so you're not the only one going at this alone I I'll answer that question just but the starting point I I would like to

acknowledge is that if Westport were to have paid when they should have for that fiveyear period we believe that they would have paid around that $300,000 that the amount of money that they would have paid for water that was used minus the money minus what you know would have been charged from water that was charged back or discharged right would have come down to $300,000 so what you're asking for and I

mean I mean I I serve with the pleasure of the mayor right and and so if if the this Council sends um a letter to the water board and the water board is inclined to reconsider their position and uh based upon that the mayor says hey go back and renegotiate I'll renegotiate but I I I think it's important to note that what I would be negotiating is something that is significantly more than what they would

have paid had they paid on time so then I think the next position is had they paid on time okay then then that's you know what they would have paid and because they didn't pay on time they're not entitled to any consideration but the I get that okay but the alternative is if they don't pay it because the the legislative body is now urging it to happen right and hopefully the mayor

comes on board with it as well both legislative and executive branch are pushing the town of Westport to pay their bills then they don't do it what are you going to do so um so I think the the answer of this body is to shut it off uh and and I understand that no I I I don't necessarily hear that I hear they have to pay their bills they do they should

pay them on time accurately and all that other stuff and if they don't then we should have a an ability to shut it off and I think we should give the mayor and the department head the ability to do that granted I understand one thing the entire town of Westport is going to be in pandemonium when they find out that their water is turned off and we're all going to get the phone calls so let's

make that clear right be be ready for that that's probably why it's never happened in the first place so I think there needs to be an ability to negotiate and try to get as Mo as much of it as possible I know we can all sit here and say it sounds really nice let's turn the water off right but trust me when somebody calls us that they don't have water it's not going to be a pretty

conf ation any of us are going to have right and and I would say just just so you understand the thought process whether whether it's acceptable or not I'm just going to tell you you know why you know my thought was let's try to make a deal rather than just say you haven't paid for years shut it off is that I was and I think the mayor you know we were agreed on this not inclined

to have homeowners suffer for something that the town Administration did um um because that that's who would suffer from that right if you turn the water off the large majority of the folks that would really feel that well all of them would be the people that are trying to turn the tap on or turn their bathtub on to wash their kid at night or fill up a pot to make pasta right but it's the

town that actually is the bad actor and so therefore why why does the homeowner have to have to suffer for the bad action of the Town that's why we tried to compromise help me help me understand this if I live in Westport which I don't I live in Far River I don't if I lived in Westport and and uh who's charging the Westport residents water rates is the town the town of Westport so the

town is collecting money for a water rate correct they're keeping it within their within their budget whatever however they do it at their town and they're charging and we charge we charge Westport yes so I'm sure they're not doing it for you know a nonprofit they're probably making money right so they're going to have to raise an appropriate the amount of money just like any claim is so what would stop us

from going to the town of Westport and filing not shutting it off but filing a supplemental claim for the money that is owed and then let the town of Westport figure it out so nothing so but for the willingness on both sides to try to reach a settlement because that settlement is always the thing that comes in lie of litigation right we would file that claim and you know probably uh try to enjoin and then

attach uh whatever the town is collecting from their rate payers to until we're made whole I mean so that that's how you would do that it's how you would do that with a town or with a business or an individual um pay plan would a payment plan be acceptable sure yeah I mean that's you know that's those are the other options I think we were just trying to one we were trying to facilitate

um a neighborly agreement which maybe the time for neighborliness has passed I I I understand if that's the the sentiment but we were trying to to maintain some civility in a situation that frankly I don't think we had been treated fairly but it wasn't anyone at the table who had done the the unfair treatment um so I think we were just trying to start fresh and move forward

um and you know I will say that the the opportunity to expand the sale of water to Westport also opens other opportunities in neighboring towns for the city of H river which is certainly part of the calculation okay um that if we can maintain that relationship expand what we're doing and get closer to other towns which I believe we would uh from an infrastructure standpoint uh it might

give us an opportunity to to also uh think about new agreements with new partners all right I'd like to make this in the form of a motion um that the city council on behalf of the entire Council uh send a letter to the W Cher water board the town of Westport the mayor and the department head urging you to um um collect by ever what Whatever May way whatever way method possible to collect that additional $300

something, as soon as possible with an update to the council within 60 days I'd like to make that in the form of a motion motion is there a second on the motion second for discussion was it the the additional 300,000 thought we said he still has the floor motion has been made and seconded we haven't discussed is that it councelor yield I'll yield for now thank you counc seat one councelor kadim now I

understand why the vice chairman of the school committee didn't want my colleague to be the chairman I agree with him listen you the funny thing does does anybody understand or know percentage wise so for floriva residents who have not paid their electric bill or their tax bill and they get a notice that in 90 days your gas or electric is going to be shut off how many people actually get into a payment

plan are actually pay I would I would guess that it's prob majority right 90% so what I would suggest to my colleagu is is that we shut off the water there's a requirement that we give 90-day notice and I will guarantee you the minute that you give 90-day notice to this to the town of Westport that you're shutting off water because I don't know how many accounts there are there's going to be

they're not coming to us they're going to Westport right and as a resident of Westport if I am paying my water bill to the town of Westport and then I'm finding out that West Port is not paying their bill that's an issue yes right that's an issue so unless the city of New beffer is working with Dartmouth to supply them water then Dartmouth will then work with Westport to supply them

water through new Beford we hold all the cards okay so I understand the neighborly situation I love Mr Rogers he was great you know I I truly understand that but and I'm not saying that it's it's the current individuals who are at the table right now but there is a bill owed right for municipalities it is just disingenuous for us to send tax bills to send uh water bills sewer rates we do

tax leans we do real estate leans so we'll lean people's property when they don't pay the bills but a municipality is not going to pay a bill and nobody has an issue with that and we just want we want to say hey kumbai yeah let's let's knock off $300,000 and meanwhile I'm sitting here as a counselor advocating for this department to get more Revenue increased rates and I'm going to sign off on the

town of Westport not paying $300,000 so point of information point of information maybe I misspoke I want to just make one thing crystal clear I don't see anything in this correspondence has anything to do with a million dollars I want the money that the town of Westport owes us that's what maybe I didn't make it clear I was saying $300,000 or whatever can I ask for a point of clarification absolutely

do you want the money that the town of Westport owes us or do you want the money the town of Westport would have paid had they paid on time I want the money that is owed or paid on time I don't care we want the money that I think point of clarification the difference principal and interest no so so there's there's three ways to this isn't just so we're not we're not

getting we're not it's not pretty it's clear we're reading they said we have a compromise of $292,000 we're hearing numbers that we they owe us another $300,000 there's a something here that says they have a balance of 57 9,000 so unless I can't read which is probably right because I don't have my glasses today I don't see anything here that says that owe us a million dollar all right so had they had they been build

for every gallon that went through the pipe without discharge without a discharge credit it would be 579,000 all right if they were to be credited for what was discharged we estimate that that would bring it down to that 270 something, that's the settlement amount so the settlement amount is an estimate of what they actually used however if we say you know what you should have maintained your meters

better you don't get to get that money knocked off for the discharge because even though we're estimating and we have a good faith basis to believe what the discharge would have been um you guys had the had the responsibility to maintain your meters you didn't do it so you owe us the whole thing and we're going to treat you like any other taxpayer we're also going to add principal and interest that's where

councelor Pereira is getting the over a million dollar Mark so once you start adding interest and penalties you can very easily get over that million dollar Mark and frankly way past it all right that said just purely from a legal standpoint I looked at the agreement I I truly don't think there's a basis for penalties in interest you're also talking about a settlement where there

is some compromise so there are it's not that you ignore the rules it's that you try to come to an agreement that everyone can live with um and so those are the three numbers the million plus is full booat principal interest 579,000 is all the water that went through just under 300,000 is all the all the water that they would have paid for had they been paying under the agreement in place

at the time all right on on my same point of information are you expecting to get a check of $292,000 from the town of Westport yes got it okay thank you councel councel want continue thank you so I I understand that there's no language currently listed in the agreement so I am okay with the $579,950 that's what's owed that's what I think we should collect if we don't collect it I will not support the water

department coming down I'm just telling you right now and I'm the biggest Advocate on this Council giving you guys a budget so if I find out um and this mock my words I will vote no on every increase every project that comes back before us I will not add an increase to any rates or anything like that if we do not collect the 500 and $79,950 from Westport my question and I

don't need you to go back and give me 10 years worth of um correspondence all I want to know per the policy Westport was supposed to notify us of all their hydrant flushings did they do that did they give you the meter readings everything per the policy that's listed in this agreement if not they're in violation so I don't want to hear it that's another argument that's going to

go there it's very clear as to what it calls for there's supposed to be if they and and if they disagree with something it was there was supposed to be notification as per the policy so if they didn't do any of that then that's on them I I just to me there should be a letter saying we want $579,000 and whatever else it is because I can't remember it or the war to get

shut off in 90 days and we we terminate the the agreement that's that's just me it just flies in the face as I mentioned before that we hold taxpayers to a different criteria than we do a municipality right so and and I and I and I truly understand and I appreciate it because because I think in normal circumstances you would want municipalities to work together right intermunicipal agreements

regionalizing that that all makes sense but I I maybe I don't understand the entire story I just I just think that Westport took advantage of us um you know and obviously we we bear some responsibility for but at the end of the day they used the water we sent water over to to Westport in that amount they owe the city of farer it needs to get paid just like we would hold everybody

else accountable for that so that's just my take um and I I'll support the I guess the motion that's on the table to send that letter out do that too I I CC five C attorney Akins when did you first find out about Westport owing US money seven months ago um no there was a meeting so there was a meeting with a bunch of Westport folks prob but that was the first time

you heard about it was six seven months ago that they had a meeting yeah with everybody yeah maybe maybe a little more been a long time oh yeah Mr furland has been before as needing more money never once did Mr furland share you know we do have some money out there that I'm trying to get into for River from Westport we never heard about that Council PS wants to put in a

resolution to send a letter but like I said at the beginning you had a meeting last Wednesday your board already voted on this correct yes so your board voted on it they're not going to change their vote now so it's too late why would you have the board vote on it you've had it there for all these years all of a sudden now the board's going to vote on

it when Council Dean and I put in a resolution you knew we were going to be talking about it oh God we're going to talk about it so let's let's pass something so that resolution is going to do nothing because you already took a vote that was the first meeting waterboard meeting since ATT tenative agreement so it was put on that agenda you knew that it was coming here so whatever the council says doesn't make a

difference because the bo water board can do whatever the water board wants to do without our say but I just think like my colleague and seat number one said you're treating our residents differently do you think everybody in Westport paid their water bill on time all the time probably not and I bet that individual that didn't pay it on time had to pay interest had to pay some kind of a penalty whatever

and you know I know from personal experience getting a water bill that was way crazy like 600 bucks that two people in a house how many times you think we take a bath of flush toilet come on and there was no leak oh well there had to be put in an abatement yet brought it down to maybe 400 I usually pay 190 200 225 whatever but even when we as as

Citizens here go for question the amount of money that we've used for water it doesn't touch our sewer so you can get it on water but the total amount of whatever your bill was you're still paying the S on that that was crazy because when councelor Mitchell and I put that in that people would be able to go in and appeal something we thought Su was included too it is in the abatement

policy wasn't online I'll show you the bill and on other people I mean I just don't think it's right and you've never brought that to our attention before where the council could have put in ut and said no you know yeah we think we should send them a notice that we're going to shut their water off in 90 days I agree with councelor and seat number one westport's not going to call us city

councilors they're not going to call us they're going to call their Selectmen and maybe they should because the Selectmen haven't kept up with this either I watch waterboard meetings and sometimes I watch westports too westport's got so much money they turned back what $5 million to the state kind of crazy I just I want to see where all this documentation is I don't I mean I'll vote for for the resolution I don't

think it's really to send a letter I don't think it's going to get it is anywhere because you already voted but at least they'll know where our feelings are and for the administration not to know about it until the last six months how long has the may have been here he didn't know about them owing his money we didn't know about it he didn't know about it we didn't know about it and we

want to work together but you got to give us information like hey guys I'm having a problem here let's work together you celor boy do I want to say a lot more but no I'll yield I get shut off from school committee members as well C C3 councelor heart Thank you Mr President gentlemen um I just maybe I missed this but was there a specific reason or why you compromised from the 500 down to the two

something um they me two sorry two reasons yeah I'm a lawyer that's what I do yeah right I mean I try to settle and and settlement is always a negotiation where um nobody walks away happy all right and in this case it was probably you know too much of a compromise I understand that um the second reason is that this to Something in My Mind represents what the actual water that

was used um whereas it represents the water that was actually used actually okay minus the water that was discharged um so you know ultim what we're talking about is is we're charging them really without penalty for what they used back during those five years really in the interest of you know the relationship has been back on track for the last three and a half years um let's try to

continue in that way there are other opportunities within Westport to expand the water distribution um and so it just it was more an effort to to kind of you know build on the good and try to resolve what had happened in the past that that frankly uh I think there were mistakes made on both sides right do you think too that uh it could be that the folks on the other side might have thought

that um Fall River might have made more more some more mistakes and they they and that's part of the negotiation where they brought it down with you you were being a Goodwill bringing it down to 290 because they might have thought um you know I remember talking to Paul about the bleeders um that they were a little off in Westport and um but I'm just wondering that that's you know a big

jump from five something to two something well their starting point was that we owed them $25,000 yeah so and right well you know I swear to God I can tell you I I analyzed this uh you know Seth saw this books and books of spreadsheets that I had analyzing this uh multiple different ways um you know and what it came down to on on this final agreement is if we

take what the the water usage was you know over the last couple years since we've had a good account we've had good record keeping in place you take their usage and you spread that out over those past years even though now they use more water because they have a new hotel in town they have uh new meat processing facility which uses a fair amount of water within their town I don't know the

amounts because I don't look at their registers uh they have a grow facility in town so that's increased water usage within the town now but if you take that Usage Now and you spread it back over those years you subtract out what they paid over those years it comes out right in this what the settlement was that's what made it okay for me for that settlement all right I you thank you

there you go Mr F you could find out how much those new hotel and the new me market charge and what they what they are paying yeah if correct if if I ask you said you don't know but we could find out yeah again I'm I'm sure Westport would provide that to us but again I took that the current usage is more than what it was in those past years so again that's why I use that

number the current usage rather than going back and try to shave those off of what they might have not been in the past thank you very much there be no further questions there a moot follow question as a point of clarification on the motion if I may yeah so there's no U if I can for the clerk I would like to make sure I take that numbers out of it and urge that the administration and the

department head get the amount that is owed to the city whether that's $579,000 whether that's $200,000 there's there's whatever you have to do get the total amount owed that is that is what I want to make clear so if it's another $300,000 or 292 on top of the 292 you're expected whatever you have to do please get the entire amount that was the purpose of my resolution my my motion

for the letter to be sent to make sure that happens maybe we should clarify what you want him to exactly get you want him to get principal and interest on top of what they owe if that's total amount owed then that answer is yes principal interest brings it significantly over the 500,000 is that what you want me to do what is that amount 1.7 hearing I don't know that

it's 1.7 that that sounds like a 13 we really don't know what the number is it's probably closer to that's why I'm trying to say that I don't want to put a number on it get the total amount owed do what you got I didn't put a number on it because just you want principal and interest to whatever it was use that's what it is get it done you tell me you just

we're going to give him an objective to get let's let's make it clear so he'll know exactly what we're seeking the answer is yes that's the purpose of my my motion okay was there a second to that there was already okay no to the new well same thing it's a new motion that's what his intention were wanted to rephrase the motion my motion is to urge the um mayor the Wata water board and

the department head to get the total amount of debt owed to the city of Fall River for the use of water from the town of Westport including principal and interest is there a second to that motion second is's a second on the motion counc see one counc thank you I'm I'm letting the uh my colleague back as the chairman of the school committee it was more than I was looking

for I was I was conceding to the to the interest since it's not in the contract so but if you want to do principal and interest I I support that um during and just a quick question during any of these conversations well I guess two questions do we know if they have an Enterprise fund for the their water department or is it through their general fund I'm not 100% sure I know in the

past I believe they went into the general fund general fund they may have been set up recently as an Enterprise okay because I was going to ask if they had an Enterprise fund if they shared any of their financials with us in terms of retained earnings or anything like that but if it's going in the general fund and I I understand support which is why I'm okay if we work out on payment

plan I'm not suggesting that we need to get the payment all at once but if even with a new agreement if it's a couple of you know 100,000 every year or whatever the case may be I would be okay with that but I I I do just want to point out 2016 to 2021 they haven't paid us uh 2018 westports certified free cash just under 1.3 million 2019 1.4 million 2020 was 639 th000 2021

um just under 1.1 2022 1.6 million and then 2023 2.1 million so I just money just want to say out of those years some of that free cash could have been appropriated so that the water bills were pit but I I'm assuming they also have some Surplus Revenue coming in and I would think there was either a special revenue account or an Enterprise fund for that to be able to pay out the

bills uh but maybe not maybe it's just the general fund so with that I yeld thank you go thank you gentlemen motion has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries go Mr President could we make a motion to table this for this to come back to us when they get this information this has already been you could we could keep it on the table I

make a motion to table motion to table has remain in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion table carries thank you very much chairman thank you we have three individuals who are signed up to speak after committee on finance um just want let everyone know you have three minutes when you come down to the table please state your name and address for the record all three individuals are out

of town residents so we we'll need a motion to wave the rules for each one individually first we have Keith M Jr subject matter for educator Association bargaining with school committee so a motion wave the rules motion rules motion away the rules have made and seconded all in favor any oppos motion car one at a time please if you're coming down with Excuse me all of them well no because it's three minutes at a

time gets confusing and there might be questions and answers please I'll call you down next all right thank you for the time um Keith michon president of the FIV Educators Association and we're here tonight to present to you a petition that's been signed by over 800 of our members um over the last week in support of our bargaining team so I'll read the petition to you um Fall River City Council I join

with my fellow members of the fiver Educators Association in calling on you to settle a fair contract without delay we have been bargaining since January 2024 and seek your immediate action in settling all outstanding issues the city has a chance to invest in the future of and transform its schools with tens of Millions of dollars in new state aid an annual Surplus by the for public schools

amounting to $5 million in each of the past two fiscal years Fall River has never been in a better position to meet the Urgent needs of our schools and invest in its future the time is now for you to do your part in supporting an agreement that includes fair and competitive compensation which will enable Fall River to retain and recruit quality Educators a modern parental leave policy

that is inclusive of All Families which will allow Educators to care for our children in the same way we care for our students language that respects the expert Judgment of forer public school Educators there is no time to waste for for River's elected leaders to properly invest in our school system and in turn in our students Futures thank you for your support thank you thank you next

you can leave right on the table thank you wait what is that next we have Alexander also a res rul moot rules made in second all in favor any opposed motion carries Mr President what was in the Box the petition oh the I believe it's the petition correct it's heavy yes yeah petition all right greetings everyone hope you're having a good night uh we're at a Crossroads inall River uh a colleague of mine in the science

department just told me that her rent went from 800 to 1400 over the course of two months this summer uh and a stake plate from carel is over $20 so clearly things have changed uh and yet here we are six months and a dozen bargaining meetings later and the school committee is still acting like it's 2008 when I graduated uh I picked 2008 specifically because that's about when things started

changing for teachers in Fall River uh for 16 years the wages given to teachers have only gone down it's been embarrassing in fact over that 10 year period it's gone down by about 6% right and yet what a teacher in FL is expect to do has only increased and the age of retirement is increased and the days have increased right and I really don't like this because I really love this

city I'm from here I went to dery I love my job and when people talk bad about the city it actually really aggravates me but that's why I'm here right because I love this place and I'm begging for you and and the city council that hopefully watches this to make some real changes right right now we're stuck at 7% 5% 5% over the next three years but when you take into inflation it's really

more like 5% 2% 2% and that's just not enough right I could go to Brockton Lowel Providence and get a 20% raise I could go to New Bedford and get a 10% raise right it's not enough when we know for the fast past five years the Chapter 70 funding that we get from the state has increased an average of 10% every year where have those tens of millions of dollars gone on where are they going

to go in the next few years and I'm not the only one with this opinion you might have noticed that if you go on Facebook after bargaining meetings the city council puts up these little Graphics where they try to spin things and U City Council or school committee members the school committee I'm sorry let the record show it was the school committee anyway they put up these Graphics they

put up these Graphics we got our own problems we got to the cows in West cutting into my time the cows in West going to die at through us because we're going to shut them off I get an extra 20 seconds at least anyway the these Graphics come down very fast because the response is overwhelmingly negative so what I'm trying to say is that for you guys this is a slam dunk if you want people to

like you and vote for you if you come out in support of us you will get those votes these are engaged people these are the people that are going to show up at the ballot and they will remember the fact that you supported them and their children right when they need it most my best friend very active in the city and he's lived here for a while he's a great

guy he just had a baby girl and she's beautiful healthy I'm so happy for him but it breaks my heart because he told me he's going to have to leave the city because Fall River is not making the Investments it needs to in education and he's right and I know me my love for the city is only going to go so far at some point I need to provide for my family

right I need I need the time and I need the money I need to be compensated appropriately I feel like I need to grow up and get real and realize that this city doesn't really value my time anymore so I did this at the school committee meeting last time but I think it was instructors I'm going to do it again and then maybe I can get those 20 seconds back for this um there areund

139 um positions open for teachers long-term Subs uh the like power professionals it's actually like 200 positions if you include guidance counselors uh school psychologist janitors nurses now Fall River reports a 15 to1 student to teacher ratio right so that's like 2,000 kids 2,000 kids there's only like 10,000 kids enrolled so that's 20% of our student body is not getting the education they deserve and

by the way this disproportionately affects students of color and students with disabilities so on top of the the moral imperative to make sure that we take care of the most vulnerable Among Us it's also in your best interest these are your voters children and with that I yield thank you no more coffee for that guy councelor seat one Council Kim you you lost me on the um 15 to one can you

say fast uh yeah so the student to teacher teacher ratio in reported to desie is about 15 to1 so we have 15 students for every one teacher so because we have 150 vacancies for I'm not including the janitors and stuff like that just direct classroom instructors we have about 2,000 people you know Miss or 2,000 students that are sitting in the cafeteria you know not learning to read you know thank you Alex

good job and stay away from the coffee and I just I just will say that a uh stake plate at Caravella for $20 is still a good deal I'm just going to say that next we have Robert gorin sub let's rul wave the rules first please second motion motion W the rules made in second all in favor I and opposed motion carries come on down please state your name and address for the record

please sorry about that good evening my name is Robert Gorman and I have 12 years years of teaching experience eight of which have been spent at dery high in the math department I've spent my career developing expertise in the area of instructing children uh of meeting them where they are of creating and adapting lessons to their needs across the district but especially at the secondary

level we are being given curricula for our struggling students in are being told not to adapt it but to implement it with Fidelity and that's the key word there as a personal example at the High School freshman students taking non-honors Algebra 1 classes are provided with Carnegie learning this is a text Heavy curriculum that is intended for students that are at reading uh at grade level reading or above we have a

literacy issue in Fall River we're getting students that are more used to reading abbreviated text messages than novels it's been my experience that they do not find success when asked to learn new math material through dense text alone our first year of implementing Carnegie in full was in 2021 that first year after getting to know our students and attempting the first few lessons as

written my team began to go through each chapter of the Carnegie Learning curriculum and adapted it into a format that would better suit our kids we altered the text to simplify language towards the beginning of the unit altered the nature of some of the lessons to make them more accessible and ramped up the language as the unit went on our main concern was that the students were able to master the actual

math first before moving on to complex word problems and ultim ultimately proving their knowledge through a unit project when we began implementing these adaptations our students engaged more were more successful and felt more optimistic about math we were eventually told not to act with autonomy by adapting the material that first year the messaging from higher up was that we were to teach the textbook as is to not

adapt the material because they wanted to determine the effectiveness of the curriculum as it came they wanted us to use my students as guinea pigs I was not okay with this my team was not okay with this those of us with professional status continued adapting the material anyways we didn't become teachers to provide quality assurance at our students expense my math class before Carnegie was a place for my students to

really discover we used Radars attached to calculators out in the hall so students could explore graphs they dreamt of what their future would look like with family budget projects when I became a teacher I thought that my job was to make connections with students in service of creating lessons with them in mind to teach them to advocate for themselves and their needs and to get them to become better functional

citizens of Fall River when my colleagues and I are robbed of our autonomy the way the application of this one-size fits-all curriculum has it does a massive disservice to our students you're paying us for our expertise this is not an issue that is limited to math this issue is seen in English and Science and it is emerging in history teacher autonomy is being curtailed across the board these

curricular are being chosen because they've been vetted by Desi as high quality the crazy thing is that if you look at the Desi evaluations for the curricular that they're that they're choosing Desi themselves suggests that the curricula be supplemented and adapted and yet we're being told to to approach it with Fidelity why aren't we implementing as desie suggest I don't know when I talk to teachers that have

left Fall River for Taunton or Somerset or hole the number one thing they talk to me about after pay is autonomy at these new places they're trusted to do their job they don't feel micromanaged they're thriving with their new found capacity for creativity I can show you studies where autonomy is closely connected to turnover rate all we ask of all we'll ask of whoever will listen to

us is that we're allowed to teach we want to be more than babysitters or facilitators we want to see our kids succeed we want to do our jobs and with that I yield my time thank you very much thank you you guys want to run into regular meeting you want to take a break going keep going motion to adjourn Finance second motion to adjourn Finance has a remain in second all in favor I any

opposed committee on finance is now

adjourned we off for hold off for a second good luck

city council please come to order clerk will call the RO councilor's kadim here Dion here Hart here Kilby Carrera p here Roso here Samson here president Camaro here will everyone in the council chair please rise for a moment of Silent

prayer please remain standing for salute to the flag aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with li Justice for All pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that

such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible Madam clerk the first item before you is the mayor's request for confirmation of the appointment of Tim McCoy to the Conservation Commission motion to confirm second motion to confirm has made and seconded all in favor I any opposed call motion carries roll call roll

call on confirmation of the appointment council is kadim uh present Dion no Hart yes Kilby perer yes Pony yes reposo yes Samson yes president CRA yes I I also want to knowe and I forgot to mention I know I mentioned earlier but this regular meeting Council kby reached out to me and he will not be able to make it today he does have a prior commitment Madam clerk item two is the mayor's request

for the appointment of Christopher Bole to the Conservation Commission excuse me it's this is a reappointment motion to confirm second motion to confirm has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item three is the mayor's request for the appointment of Donna Valente to the cultural Council motion to confirm second motion to confirm is a made and seconded all in favor I any

opposed motion carries item 4 a is the mayor's request for the reappointment of Jason buad noaki to the historical commission motion to confirm second second motion to confirm Mr remain second all in favor I any opposed motion carries 4 B is the mayor's request for confirmation of the reappointment of Jonathan Lima to the historical commission motion to confirm second motion to confirm has remain in second

all in favor I I any opposed motion carries and forc is the mayor's request for the appointment of Joyce rodx to the historical commission motion to confirm second motion confirm has made in seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries item five is a communication from the mayor and a quick claim deed conveying 112 Pleasant Street which is the former Deval Street Elementary School from the Flint

neighborhood association to the city of Fall River motion to adopt second motion to adopt as remain second all in favor roll call on a motion counc C2 you want to yeah um so my concern is twofold um it wasn't in from my understanding it wasn't until the neighborhood association found a buyer for this property who was going to put in affordable units that the city stepped in and blocked the sale um if

that's the case I have a hard time voting yes to adopt this secondly I don't know um and this can be confirmed that supposedly at a public meeting one of my colleagues stated that um they shouldn't be able to sell a school can't sell a school school I don't know um because that building has already been promised to somebody to whom I don't know and I don't know the validity of the statement but both of

these things concern me regarding the school with that I yield so you don't you don't know the validity whether it was accurate inaccurate or I we're making we're saying hold on I'm asking you councelor do you know the I'm leaving it up to the individual to um I know that there was a buyer I know the buyer was going to put in affordable units the city blocked the sale yes um

based on the fact that they owned the building too long didn't complete it in time um but I'm sure we all know that that's happened before that people have gone over their time limit um but the fact that it involves affordable housing when we have such a crisis with encampments etc etc veterans needing housing um the whole subject just really disturbs me this far far as the um individual saying that that

building has already been promised to somebody that I can't tell you is is fact the individuals here and if they choose to speak on it they can and if not that's fine too with that I yield motion to refer the committee on finance second I want to speak on a motion counc seat five counc I want to speak on it before I saw something on Facebook where Mr Caesar who is the head of the

neighborhood association had put that that it was being taken back by the city because the mayor and I wanted it for veteran housing I'm not speaking on behalf of the mayor but I never said they wanted it for veteran housing a few years ago I went to a flint neighborhood meeting at the um senior center in the Flint I asked at that time what they were doing with the Deval school to help out there

was asbest in the building had the asbest been removed where did it get disposed of the criteria for removal of as asbest is Pretty stringent but I went there because I never said that and I'm sick and tired of seeing something that says oh you know that this was said anybody that knows me knows I don't have a problem telling you what I think but counselor reposa was at that meeting as

well it was never said that there was a buyer for that building I never talked about the buyer for the building I did hear after that buyer came and that buyer has bought two pieces of property on Bedford on Pleasant Street however this has been going on for quite some time when the Flint neighborhood association came in to buy the devor school I was on the real estate committee and I said that they should be

allowed to get it it would be a a useful purpose for that neighborhood a few years later I found out through Mr Caesar himself who contacted me that he had gotten a letter to go to Grand Jury on the JZ career case because $4,000 of the money came from a check from snow ow that Mr career had given to Mr Caesar I saw the check I saw the check and that's what

happened he and I'm not saying anything out of school because if you watched or listened to the Jazel career uh trial Mr Caesar did go and testify to that it has been a long time that the school has been there I have offered you know what can I do to help what can we do to facilitate this to move this after I asked questions about that at the Flint the uh Senor Center I never got called

anymore to do the Portuguese show that caros Caesar and I would do every other week so this was already in the process and the attorney uh Akens is still here this was going on before the last mayoral election because attorney Sam Suter came in representing the Flint neighborhood so this this buyer didn't go to them way back then and at that point when I was at the meeting at the

senior center I said if you're not going to do anything with it sell it so you know to say that I don't know who told you that but I wish you would have called me because I could have told Jud to call counselor reposa who was also there and Mr Akin attorney Akin can certainly testify that this process has been going on to reclaim that school prior to any developer coming forward with

that Mr President I yield and thank you for allowing me to clarify thank you Council Council se7 Council propo my only issue and and again I spend a lot of time in the Flint because I work in the Flint for been in the Flint for 11 years now working and seeing the or seeing the neighborhood and what the needs are um one of my biggest issues and obviously it's kind of a

um it just comes to the nature of what's happening with the building is that a wonderful nonprofit that's operating out of that building is now going to be unhoused a nonprofit that feeds a lot of people food clothing and a variety of other supplies in a neighborhood that is poor let's put it that way I mean the Flint is poor and we need we need the help so the fact that this nonprofit is

going to be unhoused and not have a place to operate out of is a little troubling to me um I don't know the complete details obviously so I don't want to go on a on a Witch Hunt per se but I really would like to see the city in cooperation with that nonprofit try to get a place to be so they can continue to operate in a neighborhood that really needs it um I think it would

be a disservice to the residents in the Flint neighborhood if they lose that service so that yield there you go I just uh maybe I just need some clarification but if what the Flint neighborhood association is saying that they had a buyer and this was like swept out from under them because they had a buyer for the building that nonprofit would have been displaced regardless if the city took it over if the city would

displace more there was going to be affordable housing there so I I just want to make that it's it doesn't sound like that you know the Flint neighborhood association was going to keep them there if they were going to sell it to uh Housing Development or whatever it is so with that I yield thank you c seat seven C and just to be clear it's it's just a circumstance of what's happening I don't want to accuse

anybody of anything but it's the circumstance of what's happening is what's causing this to be gone and that should be a level of concern to what we've always said we concerned about you know portable housing access to Services food Etc here's an example of now we're losing something that's really beneficial and again it's a circumstance to what's going on yeah to your point that's all whether we do anything it's

they're going to go correct thank you I yield thank you councel motion to refer to committee on finance motion to refer the committee on finance has been made is there a second second second all in favor I any opposed motion carries we have recommendations to amend the traffic ordinances could I just ask while the administration's here can so when we have Finance can can they just

be prepared to answer those statements about the affordable housing and and things like that yeah I think we can make a phone call and let them know exactly what questions you want to be able to prepare to ask yeah just a all the statements that were made here tonight clarification hold on I give you a fair warning of what I want to find out apolog just so you be prepared this when

you show up you can't say oh had I known but I I want to get the answers problem no problem no problem I like to let people know what I want to know I just did it like good job it makes life easy when they know what that what you want to know trying turning a new Leaf makes for good government Madam CLK have the traffic commission making recommendations for amendments to the ordinances motion to

refer the committee out ordinances motion refer to of legislation made in second all in favor any opposed motion carries where is the Deval School building will be transferred back to the city from the Flint neighborhood association and whereas within the building Gates of hope Incorporated was serving the local neighborhood with a food pantry along with clothing and other needs and whereas without this

service many in the neighborhood would will go without basic needs and whereas the organization is in need of a location to continue this good work now therefore be it resolve that the committee on health and environmental Affairs convene with representatives from Gates of Hope Incorporated and a representative of the administration to discuss options to help this organization continue this work for the

citizens of the Flint neighborhood motion to adopt motion to that has been made second second second all in favor I any opposed motion carries whereas discussion has taken place regarding the lack of affordable housing in the homelessness issue in the city of Fall River whereas the property that once was wupa Heights is currently vacant and whereas the housing excuse me the fall of a Housing Authority is

currently in possession of the property and whereas this would be an ideal case for a project similar to Tiny Houses now therefore be it resolved that the committee on finance convene with Representatives from the full River housing authority and a representative from the administration to discuss options regarding potential uses of this property to alleviate these issues and to discuss the legal challenges that the

wah Heights property presents motion to adopt second motion to adopt as me second on the motion I'm just curious would you rather put this in the real estate committee or you want to put it in the finance committee because real estate is it's land it's development counc seat 7 CC um no the answer is no to that why is it personal choice okay I think it belongs we're talking about land we're talking about property

developing it's not a finance issue more than it is I'll y to real estate issues that involved in this yeah I I I understand and I I hear that loud and clear but we were kind of ambushed at our last city council meeting about what as a city council are we going to do as a legislative body to try to work on this witha Heights housing project uh what's going on over there well I

recognize that the real estate committee might be the ideal choice I think having the Housing Authority here as rep Representatives hearing it as a full body and if any additional action is necessary after that meeting as a full body we can then refer it to the committee on real estate I think that would be better suited just because I think we need to hear about some solutions and I think the whole body

should be here for that so I I'm I'm in full support of the committee on finance convening with the housing authority on that so I'll yield okay motion has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries whereas the city of full River faces significant challenges related to assisting individuals who are experiencing homelessness and whereas winter is approaching in the

temperatures outside will begin to drop dramatically which increases Public Safety risks for all who are living outside in an encampment or in their vehicle and whereas it is the responsibility of the city of full River to provide adequate shelter space to supply individuals with protection from freezing temperatures lack of food and absence of clean water and sanitation facilities and whereas there are limited

shelter locations and for these individuals as well as challenges with maintaining adequate Staffing to operate these facilities and whereas many individuals are hesitant to relocate into these shelter locations due to many factors including but not limited to mental health challenges and substance abuse disorder now therefore be resolved that the committee on finance convene with the city administrator the

executive director Chief Financial Officer of the Community Development agency and any other interested parties to discuss financial resources that would assist the city of Fall River in providing additional shelter facilities and ensure adequate Staffing of both medical and non-medical Personnel within said facilities motion to adopt second motion to adopt as M second all in favor I any opposed motion

carries Mr President Council C2 wants to speak Council um can we also invite Representatives um from the facilities that um offer the shelter beds um you know for example like staff or step in those typ all of them or just one in particular um I think we have three or four major ones that are involved i' like a representative from each one sure if that's the will of the council you

want to make that in form of a motion just to get it official yeah I'll make that form of motion motion remain seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries thank you Council if you have any other people you think we to know just let us well okay thank you CLK whereas numerous residents of the city of Fall River have recently Express concern regarding the unauthorized use of city parks for parties barbecues and

other outdoor events to the board of Park Commissioners and whereas those who are using the public parks for large Gatherings must obtain authorization from the board of Park Commissioners in accordance with section 54-55 of the city code which relates to control of recreational facilities cemeteries and trees and shrubs on public ways and in accordance with Mass general laws part one title 7 chapter 45

Section 5 which relates to powers and duties of boards of Park Commissioners and whereas individuals who partake in these events are often consuming alcoholic beverages in public parks in violation of section 46-9 of the code which relates to consumption of alcoholic beverages in public property consumption on private property without permission and whereas Public Safety in these Parks is of utmost concern as

these unauthorized events result in unsanitary conditions Within These public recreational areas due to littering and improper disposal of garbage in violation of section 26-32 of the code which relates to littering prohibited now therefore be it resolved that the committee on health and environmental Affairs convene with a representative of the board of Park Commissioners City administrator and a

representative of the forer of police department to discuss these concerns regarding unauthorized events being held in public parks that jeopardize public health and environmental cleanliness and to seek appropriate action to remedy the matter by achieving consistent enforcement of all related ordinances and Mass general laws motion to adopt second motion to adopt remain seconded

all in favor I any opposed I just want to say for the public that are watch is watching this at home if you ever see anyone drinking alcohol consumption in one of our public pars please call the police department it is illegal I don't think I've ever seen it I don't know how many of my other councelors or anyone that's ever call me with this issue in all the years I've been here um but

please if you're watching this home call the police department if they there in the park call Poli they'll they'll take care of the rest counc seat seven C proposal yeah and and just for the record the resolution was filed in response to a correspondence that not only the board of Park Commissioners received at their last meeting and and somebody spoke to it but also a message we were all received as well regarding

exactly this so that was kind of the rationale behind the um resolution to then bring all these parties together to figure out what the issue is and how we're going to solve it that you resolve it by calling the police that's the issue it's right there it's against the law they're drinking in the public parks call the police if it was so easy if it was so easy but it's with

the the laws are in place I'm just saying I'm that's why I'm talking to the residents at home if you see someone drinking alcohol in public Parx please call the police department they will come and take care of it I do not disagree with you Mr President than motion is made second all in favor I any opposed motion carries have a citation for Sergeant Frank Andrew motion to adopt second motion to adopt

has a made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 12 is a citation for the Community Development agency motion to adopt second motion to adopt has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries 13 is in order granting permission to roll the dice LLC for the removal of curbing at 2492 South Main Street motion to adopt roll call motion to adopt has a made and

seconded all in favor roll call motion to adopt hasn't made and seconded roll call on adoption of the order council is kadim yes Dion yes Hart yes Kilby Pereira yes Pony abstain raposo yes Samson yes president CRA yes CL we have the police chief's report on licenses motion to adopt motion to adopt the police Chiefs report on licenses has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 15 is in

order granting per um excuse me is the order um for the application of renewal of an auto body shop license at 645 Bron Avenue motion to adopt second motion to adopt has a remain in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 16 is in order approving the applications for order repair shop licenses at 635 Warren Street and 1201 slave Street motion to adopt motion to adopt has been made and seconded all in

favor I any opposed motion carries have a number of claims for the Corporation Council motion for the claim to Corporation councel has a me seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries 18 is a request um on behalf of the Board of Elections Department um to place Banners at various locations motion to approve seconded is this motion to approve has been made in seconded what is Mr President what is

this forward banners for the election banners on the election Department this is just for the state elections or is it going to be for every election going forward like next year just for the state election request it we could he could request it every year W if he does he needs to get permission to put him up yeah okay question I haven't Madam clerk can you say what you're going to say please yes thank you

this particular application is for placement of banners from October 25th through November 5th of this year only does it have the size of the banners yes it does 25 by 3 ft okay I was just curious yeah you know it's but if they do want to do it they could do it for local elections as well and they could do it they just have to request it it has been done in the

past motion to approve has made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries have minutes of the committee on finance held on September 24th motion to approve second motion to approve has a made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries and minutes of the regular meeting of the city council held on September 24th motion to approve second motion to approve is made in second all in favor I

any opposed motion carries that's all we have motion to adjourn motion to adjourn is made in seconded all in favor I any opposed city council me is now adj good night everyone thank you

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