Historical Commission 8 30 22

commission it is Tuesday August 30th 2022 and it is currently six o'clock pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or under unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible

um may I get a roll call please Richard Mancini present via Zoom Joyce roderick's present Christine Cantara Oliveira present attending remotely by Zoom Elizabeth president Museum Bouchard and Iraqi uh present attending by Zoom we have one open seat uh on the historical Commission um all right and so let's see um May I Let's see we have the minutes that um Elizabeth sent around uh from the last meeting August 16th

um were there any questions on it or concerns I'll make a motion to accept the minutes a second all right at the motion and the second uh all in favor all right thank you thank you Liz all right um next up on the agenda item four citizen input I don't think we have any okay great um next on the agenda is um number five a is the notice of intent to demolish the structure uh 317 Hanover

Street um that is the property that is uh it is listed on the cities register a certain significant structures um the hospital uh is working their way through uh probate to acquire the house the group of houses on that corner um they still intend on demolishing the property uh and um regarding uh additional parking for the neighborhood um so I know we had approved with uh contingencies uh last year I think was

October I think it was um but I don't think a demo permit has actually been issued yet because they didn't they didn't own the property um so um Kristen what is the is there an expiration on our approval it's one year it's one year okay one year from the date that we gave our approval so they will they will have to come back if they have um for the demo on that at that point

and so I don't believe they have either he's like I mean they still don't own the property correct no I know they were working on getting um I know they had a variance that was passed um but that that was the that was the extent of it um there was a letter that was sent from the lawyer uh I believe they've now changed lawyers to kill Lauren um so they still intend on um

working with the neighborhood to create a little parklet on the corner or some green space um to kind of buffer the properties that are that will be on well the properties that are on Summerfield um but um it might be a good idea to reach out to the hospital group again just to kind of get a re-committal of of their intentions on the property right yeah okay yeah because we still have the ability to waive that

um if if they agree to what they had agreed to in the first place and if not we can still put the six-month delay on it so okay all right were there any other questions on item 5A all right I will reach out to the hospital groups to see if they can come before us again you may also want to just reach out to the building department and let them know

um that if they do apply that our letter you know the letter that we get in the pool on really is only good for one year so if it's after that date they need to come back first if that letter is no longer valid okay okay all right I'll take care of that um anything else regarding that one okay um let's see next up um we have uh let's see correspondence uh item 6A

um this is again for 317 Hanover um it was a letter sent from the attorney's office regarding the uh proposed demolition um I did send that around to everyone um and let's see it indicates uh please be advised that I'm writing reference to 317 Hanover Street Fall River Massachusetts map 17 lot 32 I represent Southwest Hospital hospitals Group Incorporated who has entered into a

purchased and sale agreement to purchase this property along with 305 Hanover and 309 Hanover Street it is the intention of my client to demolish all three of these buildings and we'll be applying for a demolition permit for all three properties I have been informed that 317 Hanover Street has been designated as a historical structure so therefore please let this letter serve as our notice of

intent to demolish please be further advised that my client remains committed to creating a small area with some green space which will Encompass some material from the historical historic home with a plaque if the board has any questions or concerns do not hesitate to reach out to my office at any time and that was from Thomas killerin the the next item was regard uh item 6B was

regarding um the force block uh National register of historic places nomination um this is similar to what they had sent over that I talked about at the last meeting um the building at 171 Pleasant Street um the Benjamin and Nathan building is going to be nominated for the national register of historic places the Massachusetts historical commission will be hearing or considering the nomination

at their next meeting on September 14th I believe it is um it was just a general correspondence um regarding that as I mentioned to continue from last month um see but is there anything we need to do nope um if basically it's just if there's any objections that we had to um the uh the nomination um I one I'm surprised is not already listed on the national register um but I believe it's more so for tax

credit purposes um so there was nothing indicating that we had to do anything if we choose to attend uh to show support there's no letter that they need or anything like that that nature unless we have posted which I don't think we really we don't want to post a building going on with the national onto the national league no considering you know the amount of work that they've done already it's a good

building and it's one of the only buildings that survived the uh the great fire exactly right now so it's definitely excellent um and the so that was six B um the next item was uh 6C it was the agenda that was uh sent to me from the zoning board of appeals uh their next meeting is scheduled on September 15th um there were three items listed on there um if we decide to have a discussion on

them or not uh the first one uh item I was the Weaver Street um development uh the demolition of the current structure and the uh building of a 160 foot residential Tower we did send a letter to the zoning board of appeals for their last meeting so this has been continued from that prior meeting um the other item on their agenda was 317 Hanover Street again we had just covered that but it was regarding their variance

for the parking um so I believe they're looking for an extension on their variants to I think November because their variance is also expiring um and item the next item was 761 Highland Avenue um the Robert Kerr house this is in the highlands National register District um the owners proposing on converting the existing nursing home structure in which is zoned in s which is single family into nine residential units

um so they're looking for a variance to exceed the capacity of the unit the maximum units that they can have in the in the zone um there's no indication on alterations to the exterior so they're building within the footprint of the structure uh but but again it's nine residential units in that structure so that is scheduled for September 15th if we have any objections I would not be surprised if there are uh

objections or uh concerns from the neighborhood considering it is uh it is a residential neighborhood with mostly single-family houses right on Highland I think that's Stanley Street on the corner it's on the corner of Highlands and I so I've worked in that building I worked there when a nursing home I have no idea how they will fit nine apartments in there like honestly no idea how they can possibly unless they

are going to be studio apartments with one room there's no possible way they can fit nine apartments in that in that building yeah it's and considering they're not adding on to the building and plus um there's no there's not really enough room for parking so I would imagine that most of it will be street parking which it's pretty that part of Stanley Street is a little busy um the only way they could do parking

would be if they knock down the garage and they tar what's the backyard of it then they could because they have a circular so like a horse should drive me in front and then it goes up on the side so unless they completely Wipe Out the whole backyard and the garage that's there then they could make some parking but I just I don't understand how they're going to turn that into nine

dollars no I don't know I don't know how they're gonna do it um but um I mean I don't object as long as they're not touching the outside of the building I have no object right we don't have any we don't have jurisdiction on the interior of that property plus it's not in the 40c um the only protection it has is a demolition delay because it's on the national register and the city's register so

um that's the only limitation that we have if it's um up for sale at this point as a single family unit no it was sold it's already sold it was already sold yeah to the company that wants the nine units yeah yeah right uh Tetro real estate I think it's called um they uh purchase it I believe at auction yeah yep so I mean it is a significant it is a significant

house uh historically the um the car family had the the car Mill were down on uh South matapa for uh you know that when does it burn in the 80s so that they are affiliated that house is affiliated with that major Mill in the city um but you know aside from that we don't really have aside from you know stressing our concerns I think for the um the parking situation for any

exterior alterations they might do but it doesn't look like they're going to be touching the exterior so is there any questions or concerns on that well guess what Kristen points out on how did you how do you get nine units into that building um I would wonder if it's within a venue to ask for a review by the fire department we have that no we don't we we have no

we have no purview over anything on the inside it's just if they want to do any kind of demolition so unless they're going to do anything to the outside that um requires a demolition permit then we we really have no say all we can do is give our opinion but we can't have the fire department go there and I mean I'm sure they they obviously it would have to be cleared by the fire department

anyway because you can't get a you know a resident certificate you can't get a certificate to live in there without it so um would it be worthwhile for for a letter to be drafted just seating our concerns on the I guess the exterior maintaining the exterior of the building and it I think it might be especially um my my big concern and I would think that they would keep it in there

um on the Stanley Street side there is a huge gorgeous stained glass window that goes up the entire staircase and you know my concern obviously is they would get rid of that but I would think that if they're if they bought that property they would have common sense to keep it there because it really does it looks beautiful when it's lit at night and I don't know if they're I don't know if

they're applying for tax credits um but um there was no indication on that you know yeah so hello Jim so um all right so I will I can draft a letter um to the zoning board um anything else on that before we move on all right um we have uh no old business uh new business um eight a we have a list of um letters of support that is being

requested from uh Ryan LLC uh we have Emily uh here to go over each item that we have um the first one is the Adams House and most of these uh have been we've approved before in the past for letters of support um our board had made a um had voted to bring whenever another letter of support was needed uh we will have um the representatives back to go over any changes that were made

um and if we have any questions I know we had some questions at our last meeting on a few of these items um so I guess we can start with Adam's house um Emily you said nothing was really being changed for for most of these for the most part yeah a pretty much um nothing has changed um actually I do do see that Durfee Bradford Durfee textile school is on there

um that project is done and we are submitting the part I think we submitted the part three um of the tax credit application this week so we we don't actually need a letter for that project since it's done excellent which the building looks fantastic I took a tour of that building finished and it's incredibly beautiful inside they did such a great job in that building those new windows too they pop

when you drive down Durfee Street that's one of the only ones on this list that I have I'm not involved with that that much so I haven't actually seen that one finished but I'll definitely have to um and Adam's Adam's house was um is that completed it is mostly done at this point um there is there are a few final things left to do um and then before they file for the complete CFO

all right um are we on the Adams House is that what you just did Emily you switched over to the Adam's house yeah is okay and the question was is there any remaining work to be done on the project gives that the question yeah essentially there was some minor work on I think the elevator um there are occupants in there they've been moved in for a few months so it's mostly done they're trying to

get another round of funding and then they'll file for their part three early next year is it fully occupied at this point I think the um I think the yeah I think the residential units are fully occupied are there other areas other than residential because you just said the residential units are occupied does that mean there are other units um there is their spaces related to the residential so the gym um

common area but no commercial space in the building okay so the common areas are not completed I guess you know just a little brief rundown I guess of what's going on with the building and how it's progressing yeah it's it's if you went went there it's almost completely done um I don't think you would even notice that there isn't anything left to do there there's one small area when when I was there but this was also

a couple months ago so um that was not completed um on the ground floor common area I believe it was the gym um and then the like I said the something related to the elevator had to be finished is there a single elevator in that building just one yeah I I'm trying to remember there's there were two uh yeah there's two

okay that's so it's pretty much done 99.99 completed huh okay yeah no nothing's nothing further on the exterior of the building no additional Landscaping no changes in the landscape nope okay um Kristen um do we go through each one should we go through each one and go to approve letters of support for each one or we need do we need to vote on the side I guess I mean that's what that's

what everyone had decided they wanted to do I guess my my concern in all this was I I know we have some questions but my big concern is I mean Mass historical commission oversees this whole project and I think sometimes us nitpicking at the little things is kind of a waste of time but that's just my opinion I mean unless we have some major concerns about things I'm not really sure what good it

does to to do this every every three months if nothing really has changed and if we don't have any major concerns I know there's one there's one property that I have some major concerns about and I'll bring that up at the time that I mean I'm not I don't know unless if we want to revisit the policy or not I really I don't know but my own feeling is I think it kind of

wastes a little bit of time just I mean we're not mass historical commission they know exactly what the project is they go over everything everything has to be submitted to them so I don't think it's really odd job to micromanage these things you know unless they're really veering from what they originally came to us with that's just my opinion on that okay Chevron um so do we have any other questions on

the Adams House for a letter support do you want to take a vote on every one of these so that it should make it easier okay sure okay so this is for the abney's house so we need a motion on the Adam's house I'll make a motion to approve a letter of support for Adam's house okay and I'll second that all right Motion in a second uh for a letter of

support on Adam's house all in favor um jumping back on to uh item two which is the Bradford Durfee textile school um Emily said that the building is completed that they've already submitted part three for their tax credit application um so there's no letter that's needed um on that one um the next item is the ilgwu building on uh Third Street um which I believe work just started on that or recently yeah they've

um I'm not I'm not sure if they completed they were doing environmental remediation to begin with and starting the exterior so the where because the neighboring building the Allen Slade building is already done in these two buildings will be listed together on the national register um they're really pushing to get as much on the exterior done so that we can hopefully get those two buildings on the

next MHC National register agenda so we are hoping by October the exterior will be done oh great is that going to be strictly residential apartments or are there some commercial units going in there so far it's only residential um and you know there may be an opportunity on the ground floor to do something else but as of right now there's that's just a basement area I'm not sure if we can get anything any

light in there um but if we didn't change that that's something we can let you know about how many units are presently planned for that do you know uh yeah I have it right here 15. 15. nice good okay now there was an issue over there for parking too how did that get resolved I wasn't involved in that I'm sorry I'm not sure okay um so it's the building uh so environmental remediation has started

um and they hope to have the exterior done by October excellent okay any other questions on that on the ilg is there any construction going on within the interior at all well yeah the the environmental was all on the interior of the abatement so they're just starting with a demo so it's strictly demo no no construction I know reconstruction okay I don't think so yet no okay good any other questions on that one

okay for a letter of support um I'll make a motion to give a letter of support for the ilgwu building okay the second emotion all right I have a motion and a second uh for letter support for the IL gwu building uh all in favor all right um the next one is uh the Lincoln School um and that one I think that's the one that a few of us have questions on um

so the did the property change hands because the application is currently under David Hebert and I thought he sold the property I could be wrong well if it was sold then we were we were not notified I I believe they're looking to sell it okay but I don't think it has had sold yet okay okay um oh Kristen so that's where my concern is I know that the property was up for sale and

um it was being marketed as having the the tax credits with it um and I don't understand how that can happen because if you're marketing a property unless the person taking over is going to do exactly what you had on your plan then that's that's like a big concern for me um considering he's not doing anything with this property there's no work that's being done on it and he's actively

marketing the property I don't see how we at this point can give a letter of support for it because nothing's being done according to what was told was gone you know and there's that issue too where I think items um I don't know how significant they were about items within the building were being stripped and sold on like Facebook Marketplace or something like that um but I don't think that they were of um

that you know drastic or I guess that more that important of of part of the interior of the building um but um yeah he's actively selling the building trying to sell the building you know where the bundled plans with tax credits supposedly you know in place and so but you know that's that's the point exactly why I think I believe that these meetings are necessary because here's a classic example and if we just

arbitrarily signed off on these letters these things will get by us and I'm uh I'm in favor of krishna's statement I don't think we should give them a letter of support because nothing has been done in fact the building and the property the exterior and and the wall and the retaining wall it's all deteriorating so it's getting the condition is not improving it's deteriorating and we're going to approve

more funding I so my vote will not be in the positive Fashion on this particular letter either and I agree with you Kristen this and this is all the more reason why I think these meetings as mundane as they might be at times I think are important to continue in this fashion right but I'm not saying that we should never have discussions on it I think if I mean obviously it's up to us to monitor the

things that we give letters for but I just don't see why we have to have somebody in to discuss every single one every time unless we really have a concern about a property I mean this we have a concern about but the rest of them I mean you know we know that they're being done we know that we can see the properties are being worked on and all of that so it's just that this

one we do know that there's an issue with it and that's why but I just don't see why like every three months or so we have to discuss every single one of them like to me that's where the waste comes in if we have concerns then yes that's that's all I'm saying we can always uh oh go ahead sorry oh no I was I was just I'm going to say two

things just to to plead my case on this one one I would say if there is something that we can do to have your support on this even you know I know it does you're not happy with the progress to date there are a lot of complicating factors on this project um um we I mean I'd be happy to figure it out or you know try to get a more concrete

update on what the plan is to there is value in having the credits um for another developer who might see the credits in a building and the plans and want to it's been applying for a long time so it has a pretty decent amount of money at this point I don't know off the top of my head I would have to look back or or you can look it up on the Secretary of State's website

but that could be appealing and it could be a way that the building does end up being preserved using credits instead of um being demolished or uh redeveloped without that consideration now if a future buyer comes in and you know they have this bundle of the tax credits the architectural plans but they decide to Go a different direction um at what point how far I guess how far from the original plan

would it Nest necessitate uh uh applying for or I guess with the the tax credits being valid at that point yeah I don't I don't know if there's an easy answer to that it could you know if it's completely different it's possible they could not use the credits um but yeah that would have to be something that was evaluated at that time so how how would the tax credits just automatically carry over to another

buyer when Mass historical commission doesn't know what the other buyers plans are um but I don't really I thought the tax credits were for the person who owns the building and who is actively doing work on the boat that's that was my understanding of how in you um you would get written affidavits um saying that none of the credits have been used and you do an ownership transfer which happens from time to time for

various reasons um sometimes it's just you start with one owner and then they form an LLC just for the project and so you do an ownership transfer or getting sold and then there are ways to transfer the credits so is there a reason why all this time that he's had the building and he's been applying for tax credits he has not done anything in the boat in the building um it's my understanding there's some

uh he is maybe had some legal troubles yeah has that has that been resolved I mean because I I just I don't feel comfortable giving more letters of support so he can amass more tax credits and when absolutely nothing is being done I I just so if we were to so if we end up not approving a letter support for the Lincoln School and I think that one drops the value of the

building or as it's being marketed but then two um the future buyer would have to go through the whole process all over again um to apply for tax credits um so there's a few different so they wouldn't have to do that if if he continues with the tax credits and someone new takes it over they don't have to apply themselves for any tax credits they just automatically have the ones that are there

is that how it works because I I would likely continue until they reached the maximum amount of credit uh MHC would allocate which can go up to 20 but it's typically less than that 15 to 18 percent and they and they don't receive the funds the tax credits um until after the project is completed basically so I think there was concern because I forgot how much he he bought the building for wasn't much

um one thousand dollars and then it's being marketed for how much uh eight nine it was when I had seen it was like 8.95 or something yeah um isn't there an oversight on these uh tax credits at the local level just asking I would think at the state level there is well then what's the oversight I mean we we just don't get tax credits from some place and whoever is signing off on them

needs to provide an oversight well that's what I'm saying I don't really understand how they're they're even getting them if nothing's being done the stats or um initially confused besides the other things if we hop back on the last meeting we had regarding this building we will promise the tool we were concerned about things being removed and we were promised a tour that we're going to contact us and arrange some

type of tour for us so at least we could go in and see what was going on and what the intent was and that never did occur uh so there doesn't seem to be any desire to us to help us in any fashion to make these decisions and again I'm still opposed to it my vote's going to be negative on this one um is there any other do we have any other questions on the Lincoln School

okay um you know there's there are a lot of questions that we can't really get answered because you know um the owners um not actively working on the building and we just know we know what we know that it's for sale it's being bundled together with uh plans and um tax credits so but should he I mean the value I think would I don't know I don't know how that works but um

all right do we have any other questions on the Lincoln School for a letter of support I will just say there's a lot there's some there's some stuff I don't know I'm not trying to be weird about it I've just you know we are hired for the tax credit process and we're not necessarily informed of everything that's going on with the with the project so I'm not trying to be dishonest about anything

I'm just telling you right what I know thank you um can I get a motion to for uh for a letter support I'll make a motion that we deny the letter of support I'll second that motion all right I have a motion and a second to deny a letter of support for the Lincoln School um can I get a roll call on votes I vote negatively on this letter of support

I vote no for a letter also on this letter of support uh Choice thousand no okay Joyce that was a no oh I said yeah I guess I lost that uh I vote negatively on this letter of support Rick Joyce Kristen Elizabeth um I vote no and I uh um Jason Bouchard also vote no uh for letter support on the Lincoln School all right all right um the next item is the Notre Dame rectory um

Emily where where is there are there any changes to that the Notre Dame directory I think on East on Eastern Ave not right now has more construct has work started on the building no work has started and I believe some funding that they were hoping to get they did not get so that's that's delaying construction a little bit okay okay um does anyone have any questions on um on the application for the Notre Dame

rectory for letter support for funding so um do they do they have a timeline or expected uh date to hopefully have funding secured by I'm not sure what the what the latest on that is okay I think maybe what would be helpful is if we actually have the the applicants where we have these concerns about certain projects have the actual applicants come before us because like Emily said she's only um

she she's only for me to certain information she really doesn't know the big picture and and I mean we obviously we appreciate Emily's time in in doing this um but I think that at some point it's probably worth it to have this conversation with the people the people the applicants um so that we know and I agree Kristen again because that was the original intent that we would get the architect or the Builder or

someone or the owner right the past that would come in also um Tony caderos come in on his property on a number of occasions yeah I think Bobby Carroll came in a couple of times on his piece of property uh so this this is the understanding and it's worked well in the past uh I don't know why it's not happening now because what you know we got another building that's just sitting there nothing's being done yet

you want us to approve more tax credits for it's there's not even demolition going on in that building it's just sitting it actually looks like it's it's getting structurally worse because I went by it the other day and it just it looks like it's just getting in rougher and rougher shape and I I think that's the same building that also had quite a bit of um uh fixtures uh salvaged from the interior

um from what I recall I can't remember exactly what was removed but anyways um so I mean there are I mean that's minimal compared to what the work that needs to be done um can we um uh regarding a letter of support for the Notre Dame rectory um I know they're still working on their financing um so I don't know if that's you know a red flag I don't know um but

do I have um any on the lot when that was uh originally proposed can fly Ola was down to speak in favor and and gave us an explanation and and did a very thorough job by the way he and and I one of the representatives from the organization itself uh were present and it was very good we got a lot of answers uh and it would it would be be coming

here if if we had uh someone knowledgeable in with the building owner or representative of the owner and the construction phase to give us these types of answers you know no it's it's a it's being held up because of financing a lot no financing is there but we can't get the contractor started at least get some information we'll just rub a stamping letters I I I would think that we should hold

ourselves to a higher standard and just rub a stamping no and one more oh God okay sorry go ahead um so another thing to consider with the tax credit process these days is that because it is competitive the funding takes a lot longer than it used to because the allocations are smaller so sometimes that unfortunately means that buildings have to sit a little bit longer before anything can get done

right and uh from from experience the company I work for we have a number of historic properties in Providence and we've gone through the tax credit process and oftentimes we can't get funding we can't secure our funding unless we have the tax credit um the letter um in place so sometimes we can't even get a construction loan for uh restoration work because we don't have the tax credit um

you don't have the tax credit secured um so that you know that could toward the project if they if we decide to not support this letter support for this particular project if they're trying to secure funding at this point but it is not this letter on a quarterly basis to just keep increasing that funding because you've got the original letter was sent out they have the tax credit now

three months later they want another tax credit is that for an incremental increase in the credit well so the state um whereas you know National Park Service gives you 20 at the end of your your qualified costs the state might only give I think they might be only getting um 100 000 or 200 000 each round so to get up to the 20 percent um it it takes a couple years where I mean

you most projects don't even have that lead time to get close to the 20 percent okay so I'm I'm on I'm thinking correctly that so what I'm saying to you is that it appears they've already received a tax credit of x amount of dollars now they want another sum of money but then not doing any construction they're not doing any Renovations they're not doing anything at all the building's just sitting there

but yet they want us to endorse their allocations for more money so that that's where my that's where I sort of stumbled a little bit I have a tough time understanding that and if the owner of the architecture who's on that or the Builder with a sit down with us and sort of explain what's going on that okay maybe maybe we'd look at it a little differently but I find it very difficult to allocate Monies and

give the authorization to on our end to acquire more money when nothing's being done so they will likely come before us again um for the next I would imagine for the next round sure but um if you said the project really hasn't started um but the whole project can also be jeopardized if we don't approve a letter because they will if they're trying to secure funding construction loans I'm sure

um you know that can jeopardize their ability to secure funding to start the project which can delay anything really happening from the building um but we don't know what's happening with that we don't know if they're deciding not to do anything or we're looking to sell it we have no idea is we can't get that type of information and unfortunately the the deadline for the letters is tomorrow um so we're

kind of up against you know yeah I think I mean for me personally on this particular one I can understand that there's a delay I know that that does happen sometimes so I'm not as concerned as I am about the Lincoln School which has dragged on for quite a few years now and so my my concern there um this one it's still fairly new in the process so I understand that and I I

personally would be willing to give a letter if as long as before the next um before the next round we actually have somebody come in and give us an update I'd be willing to still give 11 at this point and then if they're not willing to come before us the next time then my you know my answer to that would probably be a lot different but this time I think I wouldn't but as you know

the difference between this and the Lincoln School is we we have asked for updates on the Lincoln School and we were told that we would be able to meet with someone and take a tour and all that and that never happened whereas this is the first time we're really bringing this up about um you know the the Notre Dame so at this point I'm still I'm still in favor I'm not making a relationship between

the Lincoln School and and and the Notre Dame probably my statement was strictly for the Notre Dame and and I my Lincoln was here so oh no I know I'm just saying for me that's how I view that's how I view the two this one I still think because it's early in the process and I know that these things tend to happen I do have concerns but I'm willing to still give a letter of

support at this point if as as long as we have a commitment that they will come before us before the next um before the next round of letters I think the next round is in Denver December okay isn't it December Emily and the meeting is doing or the sorry the deadline is January 15th so and this building only sold oh God was it last year it wasn't long ago so they're yeah

this is very new well yeah they're sort of they're they haven't been through the the process as long as uh Lincoln School has but um so you know it's still very early in the game for them yeah yeah and we've submitted amendments and things over this as recently as you know we heard back in June I think so it's not like nothing's going on behind the scenes and you know the Architects and

probably working on the full design set right a lot of that a lot of that work takes place behind the scenes really during the waiting game um and we've um you know I know that the company uh or at least in my professional experience we've sat we've sat on buildings for you know close to a year and a half almost two years before anything any any shovels are in are in the dirt and um you know

demo work is being done on the inside so it does take a while for you know for the you know once you get into the construction phase just to get there okay um any other questions or concerns on uh Notre Dame uh for a letter of support so I'd be willing to make a motion contingent on the fact that before the next round of letters they do come to us and give us an update okay

and that'll be put in a letter form uh Kristen is that what your emotion is yeah I I think we definitely should send a letter to the uh to the applicant yeah I'll I'll concede to that uh because this is only the second round um so I'll I'll concede but but I'm with you we've got to get some a good solid Data before the next third quarter so I have a motion is that a recreation

I'll suck at night sure I have a motion in a second for a letter support for the Notre Dame rectory uh contention that they come before us uh before the next round of funding which the deadline is January 15th of 2023. so motion I have a motion in the second all in favor all right okay um the next item is the Union Belt company um Emily is there any other any uh

updates on that at all at all no no real updates on Union Belt um we've had to provide them with additional photos of the Interior we are finally able to get into some spaces that we weren't able to get into previously so they wanted more um photos them being MHC um documentation photos yeah okay so work has not really started on that yet no of course yeah we're still in the approved trying to get everything

approved okay but they're actively in the process at this point yeah very much so Pursuit and he's he's generally he being uh moving right on the stick with this so I have no I have no questions there okay okay I'll make a motion to give a letter of support for the union welcome okay and I'll second that also all right motion and a second for letter support for Union build company uh all in favor

uh and the next item which is new on the uh for the letters to support is the Sanford spinning um Emily um can you tell us a little bit about that project if any of you have looked at the materials um I should have reminded myself it's it's a mill building with basically two parallel Mills it's a cross or it's right next to a school and then across from another project Mill project that's currently being

uh it might even be close to finishing um more housing units across across the way um So currently proposing 200 units in the buildings um it's a center double loaded Corridor units on either side typical Mill elements to be left exposed and um yeah what's pretty I mean pretty early in the application process we applied for the National Park Service part two first and that was maybe a 30 to 45 days ago so we haven't

heard back from MHC on that application yet um but we're hoping to that maybe they'll release it when they release the allocation and responses from the last round um and I noticed there are some non-historical buildings or uh on the property that will likely get demolished as part of the project um it did list uh like some additions to the buildings um so let's see but basically it's oh go ahead

yeah it's the the build there's a lot of um smaller bump outs metal corrugated metal garage and then on the front there's a two-story building it's an infill um and then there are there's some wood Construction which part part of it may have been um built with the original Mill but it's it has been so heavily modified over time and like a new facade is basically put on some of the sections of it um now

were there any um for any of the Standalone structures that are on the property um are they list so this property the inventory of the of the whole property is on the national register um where the buildings so are there any buildings that are listed on that registry that will that will be demolished at all or is it um it's just the non-contributing structures that will be demolished um so

it's a little bit unclear if the structure this some of um I don't know if you have it in front of you there is a um Sanborn or sorry a like an atlas that shows the the property as is and there were some structures in those locations but the inside and out have been um changed so much that it's unclear if it's actually the same it has a similar footprint but if it's the same building um

so I'm kind of looking to see what mhc's feedback will be on on the demolition of those because it they could consider it potentially a contributing resource it's pretty definitive as to what's being removed the scripture is very definitive but we that yeah I personally like that because you can read into it and you know what you're getting so yeah we'll likely have once they once

a demo permit is issued or before the demo permit is issued they will um will get notification from planning on buildings that are if there's any outbuildings or anything like that that will be demolished so we'll have to meet with the owners at that point um so you know go over any concerns but in general um I mean and it's very normal for a Miller rehab to lose some of its smaller

outbuildings that don't really have any purpose today especially if the building's becoming um you know multi-residential um so um okay you know removing some of the non-historic uh looking windows and we're going to replace those with something of a more historic character that's all that's all good things you know that's that's in their favor and I think the mill that's across the street

that's currently being rehabbed um uh I mean that's progressing pretty well um so photo and the um the chat of or the historic image or of the building um so one of the one of the ones that's proposed to be demolished had you know Sawtooth roof and glass front and if you do if you look at this um if you looked at the Google street view now it's it's a completely different looking okay

um so this is a new application um so we don't have uh I mean obviously more will have we'll be meeting with the owners at one point or another especially if things are if they need to take some buildings down or um but I think the application is pretty very thorough um listing out literally every every aspect of the property all the different buildings and um the documentation of that and

um you know it's great to see but yeah um some effort being done on reusing these Mills so that's what the city's known for really what all the Mills um okay very good um is there any other questions on the application this is the their first application for tax credits no all right um this is for a letter of support for Sanford spinning yeah I'll make a motion that we give this uh

Stanford spending company a a letter of approval great it's like an emotion all right I have a second and I'm sorry motion and a second for letter support for Samford spinning um all in favor great Emily thank you so much for joining in and answering our questions and um we'll get those letters to you uh before tomorrow yeah I appreciate you squeezing this in um thank you so much I really appreciate it

pleasure great thank you so much you have a good evening and week thank you so next we have um item 8B which is Liberty Utilities um there's a notice that was sent around to Residents in the uh a lot of residents who are in the 40c district we have Jim Sewell from um the Fall River preservation Society here to talk about that hi folks hey Jim uh Jim Soule from the preservation Society of Fall River I

reside at 577 Rock Street in Fall River um so uh I'm glad I got to speak about this for a minute and I think this is already on your radar uh as we all know this has been actually an issue now um seems It's been happening more uh more recently uh and you know uh I'm pretty sure is that it's a general rule even without a 40c historic district that the the utilities companies gassy and electric

that they're supposed to avoid putting their meters on the front of historic homes so that's my first statement uh and I think that uh but I think you know Far Over has gone a long time without much of a preservation movement so it might have been easy for the utility companies to forego uh those niceties and general rules uh so certainly I think this is a great time to send both of the utility

companies Liberty Utilities and National Grid uh a gentle letter reminding them that it's inappropriate to put meters on the front of historic homes uh you might want to preface it by just saying just the 40c uh historic district you might want to include all national register historic properties in the city you might even want to include all significant properties listed in the city I think that's very reasonable I

don't think that they should be I actually had Sympathy for the couple who own the home on High Street they had bought the home two years ago and then they did a bunch of work and you know maybe it was a bad judgment on their pot but ultimately I I blame utility companies they should have known full well that was completely inappropriate to put the uh those electric meters um right on the front of the aristoric

home that was just horrible and now we've seen that on a couple of other historic homes as well and uh it it's not right in fact I was driving around town around the city recently and I saw that they had done it on other historic properties albeit not in uh uh mgl-40cs but they were clearly historical properties early properties and it shouldn't be done and I think it's a good time for us to uh proactively

call them out on it and I'm happy if you if you're willing to do something like that in the near future I'll certainly ask our board to send a complimentary reinforcing it as well and we don't have um I know other I know at least what state of Rhode Island they have an ordinance across I believe the entire state that prohibits National Grid uh from placing gas meters um on the exterior of forcing homeowners

to put their gas meter or electric meter on the exterior of their houses and that was oh God that was passed maybe 10 ish or so years ago but it is a blanket ordinance across the entire State now I don't know if we can do such a thing in in Fall River but um you know dude Massachusetts has it already and I think it's just being ignored I think uh under Mass historic commission I mean I

I could be wrong but I I think that that's that is the rule um but I would say even without even if that's not the rule we should I honestly I think if we just ask utilities not to do that and call them out on it I think they would change their their actions it would be good also to get a letter at least to the homeowners initially in the 40c

indicating that you know they I don't think they can force them to put the the meter in the exterior of their house um but they can indicate that um you know it could go in the back or somewhere where it's not seen um if Liberty Utilities is that set on updating their you know their infrastructure um with regard to um uh what do you call it um with regards to the

um other houses and across the city that are not part of 40c that's I don't know how we can get that well well I think what we could do is maybe um just a letter to the editor in the newspaper so that the general public can see if they have a house that is the you know a historic house even if it's not on the in the 40c but just on

the register or any property on the register that they have the right not to have it on the front of the house and for historic purposes it really should not be on the front of the house so we could always you know we could do a letter to the editor we could also even do it at um you know what do you call it uh citizen input council meeting

or something just to get the word out to people or somehow we could put it on our Facebook page uh maybe uh the preservation Society could put it on their Facebook page as well just to you know to let people know I agree I'm inclined that the letter to the Utilities Company should be regarding mgl4c and all national register properties I I I I think even City on the on the historic significant structures list I think

yep now right and I think that should be referring to the front of the properties you know I'd love to say it can only be done on the back but I think reasonably speaking it could be said that it shouldn't be on the front once they're on the side even if it's viewable it's a little bit our division blind I think that that's fair no with the with in the in the case

what's happening over on Rock Street um would Liberty Utilities would they have to go through the building department to get permits to do this type of work to install on the exterior of houses um or do they just kind of I don't know how that works do they over do they supersede I guess the building department in terms of that into in terms of their work I don't really know I suppose we could find out

through the through Danny AG yeah on the engineering department is probably like a blanket um permit for a general gas repairs and upgrades um I mean I think all of us who have gas coming into our homes when we initially buy the house and get the service I think we waive um right certain rights for the gas company utility company to come onto the property and do repairs and things um

but like you said I think that where they can put the meters is is uh should be controlled by ordinance there are very quickly there was there were actually state laws that uh dictate that the authority enforcing the code is the the winning individual against whoever the indoor reinforcing the code is Will dictate or or specify where these things are located and how uh the other thing

is that most utility companies their jurisdiction ends at what they call first point of attachment okay uh now uh just going around that we can clarify that with one call to to Glenn Hathaway I guess uh but there's a meeting tomorrow uh I actually spoke to Zachary of the guy he's the superintendent for these gas lines and uh there's a meeting tomorrow at one o'clock on the corner of French and Rock Street

I spoke to him and I was speaking to Jason today we tried to get them on the zoom meeting this evening but he was unable to do that but he wants to get together as quickly as possible because they're getting ready to proceed out there if nothing else we'll just sit talk with them tomorrow and find out what's going on he did say he's amenable to putting meters other locations than the front of the

house he said that's not a big deal they understand that and they try and work with owners constantly to do that so we should there's anybody that can attend tomorrow at one we can go over there and chit chat with Zach it'll be on the corner of French and rock only because we didn't have any given building in mind this way we can walk up and look at a few buildings and and discuss a situation so

but again I'll try calling Glenn in the morning uh and finding out who has Authority normally it was under the plumbing department usually had Authority unless it's changed and you got to realize I'm not deeply involved in the business anymore for you know 19 years but the gas installations were usually part of your plumbing inspection so uh again that all falls under Glenn Hathaway so Glenn would have his finger

on that throttle um would it make sense initially to contact Glenn to just remind him about especially for the houses in the 40c and then from there um getting letter out to the two utility companies um you know indicating you know that they shouldn't be doing that on the front of houses that you know ideally they should be seen um in particular the houses that are or the buildings that are in the 40c but

then also the national register okay yeah no I agree I don't mind I don't mind calling Glenn tomorrow and reviewing that with him on the phone and getting that squid away and I'll definitely be uh at one o'clock out there around the corner of French and rock waiting for Zach uh again I I hope there are others that can make it uh I start work at one

um if I can get my boss to agree for me to start later then I will but I I don't know okay it just depends yes Jim you want to be there I I I want to be but I can't uh but I would also suggest maybe a a quick uh no email over to uh uh maybe uh Michael Scott Michael Scott I think it doesn't sound right uh our Mass historic commission

who might be able to uh clarify whether the state has uh guidelines or ordinances on that okay it also might be worth it I mean if there's nothing set in stone it might be worth us having a conversation at some point about going before the ordinance committee and um seeing if we can can get an ordinance for this particular issue especially anything on the significant structures less than the city

to Zach uh I don't think he'll have an issue if we can give him a week or two of notice to attend our next meeting so that we could then be able to look at face-to-face uh discussion yeah Rick do you have a a copy of the footprint of the 40c historic district do you want me to send to that you know I should have but yes would you do that please and

then I'll print some out for him tomorrow yes he has a a another individual that's going to be working these same properties with him so yeah send it over and I can make a few copies that'd be much appreciated all right okay lots of letters phone calls so um okay so is there anything anything else regarding that I know I think we it the work is starting soon so I think the the faster

we can get this going um at least for the 40c but I know Liberty is doing work across the city really um so uh Jim do you know when they're supposed to be starting workout in your neighborhood I I don't know the exact date Okay so all right so Rick you're going to you mentioned you're going to call Glenn he's ACT tomorrow yeah I'll try to I'll try to get there I may be working remote

tomorrow so I'll try to get there um that'd be nice and um in the meantime I will I will also just send an email over to Glenn just reminding him um and then uh we have a letter to Liberty Utilities National Grid um and I'll look to see who at Mass historical commission I wonder if um oh who's the new is it Jennifer I think her name is Jennifer yeah Jennifer Dougherty yeah

um I wonder if she might no I can send I can send her an email um and who else yeah right does that sound good yeah I don't I don't know who Jennifer she must be new I remember Chris Kelly she's yeah Jennifer took over did Chris retire I don't know oh no I know now Jennifer's new contact person so yeah Chris left oh when was this maybe it was in the spring oh boy

have you been emailing him that's why he's not responding uh yeah Jennifer took over for Chris I want to say in the springtime about the springtime it's been a little while yeah yeah but she's pretty she's very responsive um okay I Jason yes um I had two things I wanted to add as as like a citizen input when I but I missed that and uh so just like an appeal if I can have a few

moments when you guys are done okay um was there anything else regarding Liberty Utilities no I'll make a motion that we reopened and I'll second that motion of the second all in favor thank you folks uh I'll just I'll do this briefly uh the first one was an easy one i j Joyce I'm speaking specifically to you Joyce yes earlier in today's meeting you said there should be someone on a local level who can uh make

decisions or put provide input on these federal tax historic credits and I want to let you know Joyce you are empowered uh this board knows it you are the you are the board so that may sound kind of scary but it is on you uh and I actually uh uh commend everyone on tonight's uh committee for the way you voted that was a sensitive issue and uh and I think you're all Brave

well I have to speak to uh our president about that see if he's willing to delegate or not delegate yes I'll let you know I'll speak with Jason yeah it's it is you that and that's why they let us come to you because it is your committee right note it right Jason yeah yes uh the other thing I want to mention I just wanted to add on to the property

on Highland Ave the nursing home that uh is proposing to convert to uh nine unit uh Condominiums just a couple points on that uh one in general I've noticed the zba uh being more conservative lately about handing out variances and I think that the zba is going to appreciate input from you in the neighborhood if no one objects or has any comments they might just let it roll right in

um but I think if they get input from you or the neighbors I I think that's going to be appreciated by the zba uh I also think it's going to be very important to get some input from The Neighbors I I just it's such a it's a it's a sensitive neighborhood that is I think single family zoned and to have uh a big change like that I think it's some it's important to have

the neighborhood have some input I don't unfortunately I don't think the neighborhood association is active right now but um it's not yeah it's too bad but the about it is it will be sure it'll be nice to get some input from Neil Butters well one of the butter is next door and that might be so what they might be thinking why they can go forward with this is because they um because it was a nursing home

obviously so it wasn't just like a law family thing and then the building directly um if you're facing it to the right of them is the uh the Buddhist temple yeah so they might be looking at that as oh well you know they don't conform either so well I gotta tell you how they're going to do it I'm going to tell you my gut is I'm not against it being condominium units but I'm a little

concerned about it being nine units oh I am too especially having worked in that building as long as I did there is no way they're going to get nine condos in there unless they are just Studios they could be there's a demand for less expensive yeah I know but my bet is that they've already drawn up plans for nine units or six because they probably are they're probably shooting for nine which

is their yeah how they're going to make the most money but they've probably got a plan already to do maybe six uh so I I'd keep that in mind and then I think my last point on that is that um maybe what the historic commission could be doing is is uh suggesting that um if if they're talking about restoring the exterior and applying a federal historic tax credits then you would support those efforts but

as far as supporting efforts to build a nine unit condominium complex you don't need to support that um but if they're coming to say hey we're going to do some stuff whatever we're doing with the building we're gonna we're promising to preserve the exterior now that's something you can jump on and say we would support an exterior preservation because that would at least come with a preservation restriction deed

so just some food for thought and uh good luck it's gonna be really interesting to see how that plays forward yep thank you for letting me speak tonight I appreciate it thank you very much coming for us tonight um is there anything anything else that we need to go over no all right um so our next scheduled meeting is Tuesday September 20th uh 2022 at 6 00 PM um may I get a motion to adjourn

I'll make a motion to adjourn that motion okay a motion and a second to adjourn um at 7 26 PM all in favor hi thank you so much everyone have a good weekend hope to see many of you tomorrow afternoon