Special Charter Review Meeting 2 27 23

can we open up the February 27th of 2023 special Charter review committee meeting and with that before we start the open meeting law pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any media attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those

present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible where's the flag because we like to start this meeting with the Pledge of Allegiance please I don't know there's no flag but can we do it anyways thank you I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God invisible with liberty and justice for all thank you everybody

and if we could take attendance starting to my left if you could just state your name please Dan o all right Tim Campos Marina Brown Tracy Almeida Kathy namkovich Laura Washington Mimi Laramie thank you and uh an email went out with the minutes from January 30th of 2023 but before emotion is made to accept those minutes there were two typographical changes not in substance changes under members

present uh ex-officio first paragraph after Alan rumsney's description it just said ex officio the minutes that we will be the subject of the motion say member after that and on the third page first paragraph election of office groups in the under the secretary part um it says Paul Machado volunteered t-o instead of o-y so two typographical uh changes not changes of substance is there a motion to accept the minutes

I'm sorry can I just um just a quick correction on the spelling of my name there is no t on page two okay um there's no T in my last name so on page two where it says Kathy nemcovich it is spelled n-e-m-k-o-v-i-c-h no t okay so other than the three typographical uh changes member to paragraph two no t under nemkovich and adding t-o instead of OI on page three is there a motion to

accept the January 30th minutes made by Dan how's second Ed by Tracy all in favor motion passes unanimously I believe okay and let's just um Mr Mitchell will you care to introduce yourself I'm John Mitchell member of the Charter Community thanks John and at this time we'd like to take some public comments so if you want to do public comment just kind of raise your hand or stand up and we'd be

more than happy if you could give us your name that would be fine too oh well my name is Edward L first thanks Bill a-l-f-e-i-o-s 11th and Hancock Street corner of Massachusetts uh uh this is to add amendments to the Charter correct um do you want me to answer yes okay the special Charter Review Committee was formed according to the statute after the last change it had to be reviewed

again at the five-year period so this is technically the 2022 because it was changed in 2017. so this is the 2022 Charter Review Committee and we review the charter as it is right now and by June 30th we have to submit a report and the report will contain suggestions advice comments if changes are made for example say the change of the amount of time that mayor can run also I mean how long he's going to serve

wouldn't we have to vote on the changes so according to our Charter let's say I mean this is a hypothetical answer if this uh committee submits a report to the to the city clerk because that's how it goes and the report says listen you know these we as a committee suggest that these changes should take place with the charter from the city clerk it would go to the city council and they would yay or nay

it and then it would go to the mayor and he would yay or nay it then that report or proposed changes goes to the Attorney General's office to the municipal Law Department to review it and see if it conflicts with state law because state law preempts and then and only then if they send it back and say it's okay it would it would go on the ballot the voters would vote

I I think on the last time I spoke I uh spoke on the recall now every electric official can be recalled correct according to the Charter now is that based on how many people voted in the last election on people who are minority are you asking how the recall procedure takes place more or less because you know if you know I would like to defer that to our clerk because

he is extensively uh he has much more knowledge about how that recall uh procedure took place in the past or how it's laid out in the charter Mr Machado the first step is that there has to be enough signatures collected by the petitions correct if those signatures aren't collected a sufficient number of signatures I've collected uh then in his um a special election this schedule there's

other procedures in there yes but first is collecting sufficient signatures and the city clerk's office proves the special elections I realized that part of it but the question is this because I when people sign up for it you have to read a certain deadline there's certain extent of dead eye and also of certain Amounts is that certain amount of people vote in the last election all the people

who were registered to vote because as you know you ever seen 25 voter I don't see any racism next question last comment let me just clear this up so would you would you would like to recall portion of the charter Revisited yes okay this is a statement at all it may be true but not true as we all remember we had a recall and the person who recall but his name was on the ballot three times

now if that recall what you did pass that office come vacant immediately doesn't it more or less he stopped running for a re-election he's running for a spot that he'd been vacuum the last thing I will say on this I don't remember the mayor who got recall got back on the ballot and was put into office ever got sworn to office am I wrong I can't answer it thank you thank you for your input in

just to review you'd like us to review the recall provisions and the term limits in the time that the mayor serves okay thank you

stupid in my mind I know of course it's a lot of money to have a a technology all the time I used to work for a company here for a river we made that information sheets and the campaign uh applied for many of the people who ran for Marriott well thank you we appreciate your input more public comment

could you just give us your name because not everybody knows you

last night and I served as the chairman of the United States problem upon the uh chartering and hundreds of the charter to try to solve each other I guess I've succeeded all right the first second we have problems with the charter with people holding two jobs day one so okay resolve a uh let me just interrupt one second um uh Mr Venice you provided each Committee Member with the handouts of

your uh of your request for for proposals so um prior to the meeting you gave us a package with 11 copies I think so each Committee Member has a package looks similar to this with ready and got it correct the rocket the red is what you is your proposed change and the black is what's in the charter now okay and we'll make those available with the minutes for the the minutes that are

being taken now we'll make those available as part of the minutes all right I just wanted to make the record clear continue Mr Venice please right now there are a number of people job no one seems to know maybe I'm not asking the right people yeah part of the thing with the charter we want to get more people involved in city government the first thing out of the Tangled watching me about that sort of

thing for the original fireman and it was on the school committee it was a second shift environment shift on spoken to be helping you know because I was going to try to say the hours should not conflict but that time jobs are not completely full-time account

probably uh treasurement place in support that when you meant time and a half where they especially that straight behind big but anyhow my uh the first one deals with the city council remember the city councilmation currently receiving both compensation for City Services the city council and City employment so what's your salary an arguments repair worker from the city I shall have the right to choose which

compensation you shall receive and which compensation we shall wait any I was working a part-time position shall not be the same or otherwise complete for the hours worth in full-time positions because they should talk about and no business shall be paid twice for the same hours I remember this year we had one working upstairs and shared before maybe five positions through a new ppw out of this

code to see what's working now how are these people get paid they're getting one test at the highest rate uh you know they jumped something up

good second thing is second 3.5 and that deals with suspension of alternative officials the people are indicted

and officer employee of the city or any Department of Law commission agency there are they during such period of such an officer employees under indictment from this conduct Etc office our employment or under many many appointed public office trust our employment at any time held by him be suspended by the approach by the important Authority so if there are any workers board members regular records City officials

they're indicted and the appointing authority which in most cases are familiar can suspend and just says the uh don't care some suspended shower receive any compensation or salary during the period of the Sebastian it's also have the theory of a suspended to become an impurity to sickly revocation benefits of scenario rights to not shall any person who retires

on any of the charges who had 17 charges and you're found guilty online

another right Cottages Federal service for the Jefferson retirement and this comes down to I'm not making this up this comes under the top four trying to punch mission for changes in terms of cases 268 a section 25.

and I started on the way here has a case where the by the city action figures around doing had nothing to do with it it's a job so at least for the city and he ended up winning because you know I accepted 3.8 the Contemporary absence of Vernier probably this can help us with uh we went to call the last time on this and uh thank you microphone is to change it to whatever

by reason of sickness and capacity instruction from the city or other such more than three working days the mayor is simply unable to fund the duties of the office the president of the city council Chevrolet the city council is unable to the search engines or treasure section 2.8 King Charles Drive foreign

local when they did it uh the city the city council will try to remove the mirror it didn't have any standards section 310 here for the vacancy in the office of America whenever permanent base is a different than the discovery one that they just talked about another vacancy occurs in the office it was made by just removal from the office recognization or other reasons the vacancy in the office of Mayors are

fulfilled that's providing the Second Street AK council president if the council president is not Maryland are unable to share the provisions of secretary professionally replacing the mayor sharp respond to office immediately in service America member of the city council I really don't see anything wrong with that because fitting council president of whatever it was about nothing after two months from recalls

addiction changes second all in favor if they've changed in recall languages if affected the experience inside office after recall election has been ordered to recall election shall not proceed in the vacancy shall refills where African 211 fulfill and vacancies for the city council section 310 for General emergency is in the office of Mayor the section foreign office created by recall to hold that office

for the remainder and Young make a tree across the recall off control of their upon even moved on your office program uh same language throughout the troublesh out the chicken from the duty in the office to whichever activities not recall the auto service continuing office for the remaining so basically following the language for vacancies no more second election you've got one box what do we call

if the thing comes in you want to recall and then president the city council take the who hits the man comparatively confidence though if it's for a council or school committee then the next highest person then with the votes there and the restaurant I had which is tonight but they're mine and they're watching the fish are off there are employed in the city or any Department who has been convicted of a state of

federal government felony Malvern such position always been convicted to his state of code felony from this conduct and many other elected or appointed office charts are unemployment at any time Health rep can shall be need to have vacated into position period you know peace of mind I shall not be eligible to hold any electable appointment officer our employment with the city in the future

is there a legal opinion that I can understand

the most preparing things not getting into well the rest of the charter went through no problems different issues but the problems that we had I tried to address thank you Mr Venice thank you any other public comment public input foreign

lunch lady if I ran for any office or especially the school committee I wouldn't be allowed to that don't make sense to me I have no power over there imagine the people who are working at City Hall a secretaries or whatnot don't have any policy that position I think it's really unconstitutional so no thank you any further public comment okay seeing none moving on to the minutes

from January did we do that already yeah did we accept the minutes thank you so much and one of the other um number six on the agenda is the adoption of parliamentary procedure I got my Robert's Rules of Order handbook here

there's a motion to adopt the Robert's Rules of Order as the Parliamentary procedure for the 2022 special try to review committee meetings and that motion is seconded by motion made by Dan robillard seconded by Mimi laravee all in favor motion passes unanimously moving on I'm sorry I didn't ask for discussion on that did anybody want to have an in-depth discussion about Robert's Rules

of orders okay I apologize it won't happen again moving on so it may it seemed to make sense to start at the beginning of the charter and um if you want to comment uh question of discussion about it please just like put your hand up or tap or something it's because if my back is too towards you I won't know or just shout and if someone's talking I'll uh we'll wait till they're done and I'll

recognize you okay so does first of all does everybody have a copy of the charter okay and um it starts out just the charter um and one of my issues was I didn't know I have a copy of the Old Charter and I thought a table of contents made sense but this one doesn't have one your thoughts anybody a second any discussion on a table of contents and my only discussion would be I'm not

quite sure what it would look like I know that that would be something that would kind of finalize maybe at the end but I just think a table of contents makes it easier to go right to where you want to go to in the charter and uh so there's a motion for to consider a table of contents I believe it was seconded by Mimi so all in favor all right motion passes for a table of

contents nice moving right on so I have a chapter see the charter there's a history line and a preamble I'm not going to read it because everybody has it is everybody okay with the first two paragraphs the part that says history preamble any discussion okay looks like that's article one incorporation short title I'm sorry Alan I'm just gonna um I have a couple like clerical kind of things be

nice I'm not gonna have my input here and I can do like public input put it in right at a later time I'm not going to chime in on every little thing but just to give you an example I won't do this for every single one section 1.1 it has the name city of Fall River quotes and in section 1.2 it says cited as a city called Charter without clothes things

like that bother me you should be consistent player

oh it's typographical errors well yes we'll call that okay and where's the first one you see 1-1 incorporation is it spelled oh no in 1.2 in my opinion the city of Fall River home World Charter should also be in quotes right so 1.1 where city of Fall River is city of Fall River City is capital c and the rest of the document doesn't have a Capital C right all right so once like

that right I don't think we need to have a detailed discussion I'll just put it right in or give somebody a marked copy that they can use earlier right so um 1.1 city of Fall River will stay in quotes is that fine yes and then 1.2 city of Fall River home Rule Charter should be in quotes city of Palm River City of Fall River and leave out formal Charter well be it's it's telling

us what this this document is it's telling us the title of this document

s Charter which I have done um the whole thing or the chart or something it should be in quotes throughout also known as the charter instead of using 20 words that way every time it's referenced throughout the document it's the target as versus city of Fall River Homeland travel just for brevity right that would be the first time it's referenced and then it would be referenced as the

charcoal or something same thing with the city of Fall River it could be Fall River it could be the city of Fall River but you just need to set that identifier I usually put the rest of the document um much cleaner right because if you go up to chapter C it's just called the charter it's not called the city of Fall River homeroom try to like the document itself titles itself the charter

and then it's and the title of it is the city so the top should be city of fall rule so see where chapter C is it says the charter that should say city of Fall River home Rule Charter and then down below one two referred to in this document as the charter right and then the city of Fall River I would say should always be capitalized this is the first paragraph of the city is NOT capitalized

right yeah I I couldn't agree more as so going back to chapter C the charter I guess I would make I you know is it the charter or is it going to be called the city of Fall River home Rule Charter because that's the first time it references it it's up here you probably should the first time right but then every other time will just be charged okay this document can say Charter everywhere else you might

want to title it with an actual name as quote the charter as listed before yeah right so also known as are also referred to as the charter the charter yeah that would be in section 1.2 right okay so one two this instrument shall be known and may be cited as the city of Fall River home Rule Charter also referenced as quote the charter quote right or it doesn't have to say also or should

it just be I I don't know and it can just be how you can name it multiple things it's just that anytime you see that word reference to the document s reflect back to what it's supposed to be which is the city so is it also referred to as also to be the charter here and referred to as the charter it can be interesting no session 1.7 as it defines it needs to be

better defined because at least right so chapter C instead of the charter the title really should be like the very top line should be city of Fall River home Rule Charter city of Fall River home Rule Charter and then one one is fine one two adding also referred to as quote the charter quote right yes okay 1-3 division of powers any discussion any suggestions moving on Section 1.4 powers of the city now

if you go look to that it says it is the intention and the purpose of the voters of Fall River through the adoption of this Charter so this Charter should be capitalized and in quotes or just this Charter or is it the charter the charter the charter right right the charter right whatever you would labeled right this is how we refer to it as the rest here for themselves any discussion about 1-4 powers of the city

subject to the express limitations in the Constitution that's right too so should it be three things is it the Constitution of the United States the Massachusetts Declaration of Rights or the general laws so in one four under powers of the city it says subject only to the express limitations on the exercise of any power or function by a municipal government in the Constitution or general laws

we're talking about clarifying Constitution it isn't the constitution of Massachusetts it's the Declaration of Rights and the only Constitution is the United States Constitution so do we list United States Constitution Massachusetts Declaration of Rights or Massachusetts general laws because the other thing is it just leaves it open to general laws and it's really Massachusetts general laws

Allen I think you'd probably just take our constitution or at least specify which Constitution referred to because obviously the U.S Constitution supersedes us so I don't think we need to identify each and everything that supersedes this chart so just putting general laws is probably good enough I just don't like the word constitution without any definition yeah but you know Mass general laws

doesn't doesn't always address everything that we didn't codify every right in the United States Constitution all the Declaration of Rights not all Mass general laws you know what I mean like we don't have a Mass General law that says you have the freedom of speech I think it should say United States Constitution Massachusetts declaration or the Massachusetts general laws that's kind of how I see it all three I

think so you have to put them in the definitions as well though yeah well I yeah absolutely yet well I just identified as the United States Constitution see like because in the in the definitions it has general laws the general laws of the Commonwealth we don't have Constitution so maybe in definitions we put Constitution United States Constitution get hurt right right I know somebody somewhere is going to

say open someday it's over descriptive is better than understanding that's what I think over descriptive because you always end up in a courtroom I so being very explicit right you're very explicit I think supersedes anything so I would I would vote for being very expressive see because if you go to definitions I want you to look 10 and 11 both address general laws both mean two entirely different things

right not be a parent to everybody who's reading it though I mean I know for the court of law it is but for clarity I wouldn't have I wouldn't have no I'm not an attorney so I wouldn't have explained it I wouldn't need clarification on them you would so then powers of the city changed that line to say subject only to express limitations on the exercise of any power of function by a

municipal government in the United States Constitution Mass Declaration of Rights or Mass general laws I just wanted to say that because they didn't hear me I I'm not an attorney so as a laid person I if we're looking at 10 11 I wouldn't understand the difference between general laws and general laws so to be explicit as possible would help me and probably anybody that's not an attorney foreign

capitalization right I mean I don't think it's wrong if we add more but we don't technically have to because we will see it it is defined in the next I don't think it's wrong one way or the other I just don't think we need you know I think having the mass Declaration of Rights I think is important because that's our Mass Constitution right and that's not defined anywhere right so I

think that would be good adding the U.S constitutional things a bad thing um just to add right so put United States before Constitution comma Mass Declaration of Rights or general laws and general laws defined yeah defined then we would need to go you know Define it in that section but it is pretty clearly defined yeah I like that too I like that too so change it to United States Constitution Mass Declaration of

Rights or general laws and general laws has a definition correct sounds good I think so yes all right so there's one four just one more time it's what happens when you get four lawyers on a so the the sentence will read subject only to express limitations on the exercise of any power or function by a municipal government in the U.S Constitution comma Mass Declaration of Rights or general laws

it is the intention and purpose of the voters of Fall River through the adoption of this of the charter in quotes I think it should be the city of Fall River as well okay so please saying now we're going to say thus City nope no like earlier no no no in this in the sentence it says the purpose of the voters of Fall River we're going to put city of Fall River through the adoption

of the charter that's going to be followed throughout the charter yes or we can make it Fall River it doesn't matter just got to Define that somewhere and then for example I mean in the definition city of Fall River child our first time here in Africa that's it here and after that's the word here and after and you know don't get me wrong there'll be a report hopefully by the last meeting and

we're going to be able to kind of fine tune it then this isn't you know where it's been right we can type over words method okay moving on 1.5 construction the powers of the city should be capitalized didn't we say city was going to be capitalized a Fall River under this Charter are to be construed liberally the charter under the charter in quotes are to be construed liberally in favor of the city

of Fall River right it's a little redundant because it is the same I would just leave it as the city because you we Define City and we say city of Fall River well we Define City under the definitions we put City we we're referring to Just Fall River

or the city of Fall River that possible see why not I like it I like calling it the city of Fall River I just for some reason I would like to stay with the city of Florida I do too I think it it makes the document um so take it out of the you know more formal like I don't know I can't find the word but it just important because it's artificial it's an important

document right the powers of the city of Fall River under the charter are to be construed liberally in favor of the city of Fall River in the specific mention of any particular power is not intended to limit the general powers of the city of Fall River as stated in section 1-4 all right any further discussion on construction and I think it's a you know I I like the city of Fall River and capitals and we

could add both to right so it could be you know the city of Fall River and the city right so if we do want to keep it short in some places like that sentence where we say it twice in a row right it sounds I mean I I like using the city of Fall River better because it definitely sounds more formalized it's definitely clear but if you do want

to use keep that word in the city at any point we should just add somewhere in the beginning when we Define the city of Fall River here and referred to as the city the city right and then as long as it's capitalized we can kind of roll with that we know that it's Fall River right one six intergovernmental relations oh I'm so sorry 1.6 and I think they should be in the

same session I mean the compass of 1.5 is Fall River declaring that they're trying to grab as much power that they can that they're allowed to pursue the U.S Constitution and the Mass general laws in the master Evolution rights right really all under intergovernmental relations literally constrained power in favor of Fall River it's not in reference to former versus its citizens this is all

intergovernmental relationships so I think really it's almost like one person right the chapter entitled intergovernment relations as versus construction I don't think you need yeah I don't think so either care about I actually thought it should have all come onto powers of the city I thought it all was see we we label section one for powers of the city and the only time we talk about it is in one

five the powers of the city but that's called Construction follow me we talk about the powers of the city under one five we don't talk about the powers well we do any power or function but why can't one four be power B just powers of the city and it include the paragraph of construction in intergovernmental relations that's up for discussion oh yes that's that was my thought when I read the three

paragraphs you could maybe combine them until 20 section right right in fact I think the paragraph under construction is more powerful as you were to include it in section 1.6 intergovernmental relations right because it's clear you're not trying to take away power from the people you're trying to make sure that Fall River reserves the right to its power that's not already granted

to um to the federal government right subject only to express limitations in the United States Constitution mass that also that has to have mass declaration of rights in there too so then the section 1.5 become renamed intergovernmental relations and that includes so are we having the one four and a one five or is every is 1 4 through 1 6 going under into governmental relations

there were two proposals right I believe and one was to separate or combine just one five and one six and leave one for and then the other proposal was to combine all three under section one four and rename it intergovernmental relations is that correct yeah oh why can't you just name it section one four powers of the city and intergovernmental relations could do that yeah Take Out Construction

put all three paragraphs in one four or do you take out intergovernmental relations that title is it the title that's kind of redundant right powers of the city talk about the power of the city

powers of the city because one five says we're going to construe them liberally and one six says you know um they're limited by the Constitution the Declaration of Rights and Mass general laws and I think that all comes under Powers because you don't just Define the power you have you define how you can use it what its limits are all underpowers yeah I that's anyways I like that too

eliminating the titles only one five and one six just have one four with the three paragraphs all right do we need to change that last year the sentence in 1.5 though because it references Section 1.

as it just as stated here as stated here as stated herein right Paul's gonna have fun with this um report it's a good thing it's recorded Mr Clark and take out one five construction take out one six intergovernmental relations right but change that first line subject only to express limitations in the United States Constitution the mass Declaration of Rights or Mass general laws and the city capitalized

of Fall River we might even be able to take that last paragraph and work it into the first work it into subjects I mean because it's essentially starting with the same thing and it's just another like that first paragraph is one sentence Oh yeah so we could probably maybe bring those two I mean I want to make a complicated well they but they do look they basically start the first half

of both of them are exactly the same and they're both referencing they're saying something slightly different but similar so we might be able to just reword all three of those together if we wanted to do a rewrite maybe you could come up with something okay like if 10 people rewrite something as 10 rewrites but if one person rewrites something because you it kind of looks like it right and then we can come back

and visit it right is that all right with everybody yes alrighty um so one so one four one five one six is going to come under powers of the city and we're going to try to revise the wording I guess right and if we don't like it we just keep it well we'll keep it the same all right definitions

please I just have a real problem with the phrase in less than content context clear requires otherwise where is that I have the context clearly more words you're given its definition you're given the power in the intro sentence almost ruled that yeah I think you should just scratch that out take out unless the context clearly requires otherwise like why is it there so I don't know I'm not any

enthusian I think it's a much stronger document if it says the Fallen words shall have the following meanings yeah right but you know there's been many a lawsuit over that word shall yes so can I just um are you saying that it makes a less stronger case in the quotable so if this document had to go to the court does that make it less strong it strengthens it to remove that because people are

going to be flushing why we're doing this so what is what is the purpose of that okay the lawyers do here is to play Devil's Advocate to see how somebody's going to attack it somebody how somebody's going to find an exception that you didn't intend to exist so if there's a word that you believe as the author it's clearly defining the definition the definition section you could have somebody say yeah but

clearly this context requires a different definition and you may think they're completely wrong but you're now giving them at least some authority to challenge what the intent of the document was so my thing is you can't Define if you can't put the context to release right in the definition section you're gonna have a problem throughout the entire document so I just think it's important to note

the whys for people that are either watching out right you are going to understand so that's important so it strengthens the document in of itself so people cannot argue the validity of it so I think and I agree with you on that I just think it's important to State the why for the people in language terms this unless unless the context require clearly requires otherwise if we Define dog as a four-legged furry

animal right we say the definition of dog is a four-legged furry animal and somewhere later in this we address a dog as a three-legged animal in a paragraph where you're right the context mean the context of using dog in that later paragraph is different than we defined it because we want to describe it as something different later on and therein lies the problem that's where the the

lawsuits if it's clearly defined right or creative vulnerability right right right so we're just taking it out let's wrap that off right now yes you know I don't think it hurts to take it out no it doesn't unless the context clearly requires otherwise causes an argument later if you're using this word in a different manner right is that kind of the simplest explanation of it I'm fine with it no any other

I have notes Here oh I don't like the I don't like the uh I wanted to enlarge emergency and I wanted to know does City agency also include committees or commissions it's got really a question so City agency any multi-member body any Department division or Office of the city of Fall River does that mean it doesn't include committees or commissions

I think multimeter member bodies should include the board there's almost every committee is called the board so should we are planning boards or other body consisting of two or more persons and I just think so under multi-member body include board right Council commission committee subcommittee comma board or other body consisting of two or more persons whether elected appointed or otherwise right

but so Sanders City agency do we refer them to multi-member body definition or you just leave it that way it says that okay all right number one yeah just might have been before the word oh this Charter and any adopted amendments to it if it's an amendment we don't and to it it should be this Charter in any events just unnecessary words oh Emmy adopted take out right yeah okay so Charter this Charter and any

amendments period before including any methods because really the Amendments become the charter should we also put the actual full name of it there yeah like Charter and any events yes yes yes the full name so Charter is the Fall River city of wait a second city of Fall River home rural Charter and um correct

so I don't know that it would have to be it's already been fine pure enough yeah but you know one um just wide definition yeah so I mean you know something you're right you can't I charge so maybe you go table of contents definitions amen then we don't have to be so descriptive later on but we still would though you'd still reference it anyway so it doesn't really right you want to be consistent I think

so maybe it goes table of contents definitions right and then you get into the charter so you move definitions to after the table of contents maybe definitions is you know um doesn't need to be a particular section no I think it just helps understand what you're about to read I mean they've given us definitions after we just write six seconds right so table of contents definitions and then then

right so we're going to change the order this will go yeah after the table of contents it needs a number that's going to be savings right so um if table of con I mean do you number the table of contents or do you just leave table contents so then definitions will be one one yes right right or it could be or maybe it's article one so we make definitions one one right and then

and so and then you change the title of article one it's really going to be definitions and corporations short title right yeah definitions comes before right and then everything gets moved down definitions ends article one anyway right so put it first so Charter the city of Fall River home Rule Charter and its amendments or the Amendments it's including city the city of Fall River City should be capitalized I think

foreign

agreement that throughout the document is going to be capitalized okay City agency any multi-member body any Department division or Office of the city of Fall River City officer or department head a person having charge of a city office or Department I don't know I don't know for some reason that sounds so what's been the problem with it the problem is it's pretty easy to Define

where the department head is and nobody really knows what a City the fact that they're using them is them as Anonymous here is is not true like wouldn't a city officer be like um

like the administrator like uh what's the Seth's title oh for crying out loud yeah that's not a bad idea because that's exactly what I thought yeah yeah not a bad idea so take out City officer and just put I'll tell this board what this definition is used in the document later on or at least one of the main reasons is for confirmations of department heads or city officers they use the same two terms

um I believe I'm not 100 of this but I believe our prior Charter did not allow for city council confirmation departments that's the program the mayor is a print plan a mayor the mayor's always had the ability to appoint who he or she wishes to appoint this Charter made department head appointments go down to city council for confirmation so that was the purpose of this so the big question is who goes

down and who doesn't go down and you know is there any nine opinions I think that everybody goes down and then other people think well only a certain numbers is there anybody that is referred to as a city officer I mean is it an outdated term they name someone that's a city officer my apartment has the phrase that's used because in your organizational structure you have departments and really that's

what it all stems from it doesn't really matter what term you or I use it's really what is the city use right determines the city using to describe the head of a department so are you suggesting we just strike City officers to spread the words to the office yes I'm with you on that Dan

you know I don't like that language though did I'm so sorry um motion to strike City officer second all of any discussion all right all in favor aye striking City officer department head a person having charge of a city office or Department so what's the city overseas that's that's vague I mean what does what's a city office what's the difference between a city officer a department Department

right because wouldn't the mayor be a department head because that's a city office

job department has got provision has so what you're suggesting is to remove office out of here too I think it's true I agree the problem is that they're together because I think their needs I mean if we can Define what a city officer is which the mayor is a city officer right then we should have that declined separately and not convolute department head because I think that's what makes it kind of difficult like a

department head does

I think 100 correct it's just I don't think you need to Define yeah well maybe so yeah because we'll just Define them I don't mean the mayor himself I just mean if there are is someone that can be you can't Define it yeah okay somebody striked out City officer let's strike out office can we make a motion to strike out strike

city office right we already did this right correct and make it City to but make it City Department right just office so I'll make a office door a message to make a motion to strike City department head all right so Dan I know we struck City officers department head what's your motion just to take out all office

so what's the motion a person having charge of a department is what the motion is so a city department has a person having charges City Department right so a person having charge of a city Department that's the motion that's what he's asking okay so Dan's motion is the to it for it to read a person having charge of a city Department

is there a reason why it's why it's having charge or or is it responsible the only one I can hear on that side for about this

so well there's emotion it's going to number four would read department head a person having charge of a city Department how about oversight oversights okay a person having oversight but but they aren't yeah it just sounds same thing but I don't think it's wrong yeah that's how I feel on the sites that that adds a lot of ambiguity to it sound better yeah in charge I'm like they're going into

battle yeah in charge all department heads are appointed yeah they're all employed so isn't a department head a person appointed to oversee a city office no they don't pull anything offices right so so a department but they're all appointed right they are department heads are all appointed so isn't it really a person appointed to oversee a department it does help Cloud well because you I

I pointed in there because you know it becomes problematically right I'm telling you well the only problem is that I think it probably works right now but what if they're 10 years from now 20 years from now it's unnecessary I would say not fluid because you could in the future have a department head is not appointed that way document has a more or less or less yeah it may not always be what it is about

right exactly okay so a department head a person having charge of a city Department person in charge of a city Department a person in charge of a city Department a person in charge of a city Department okay City website Madam president yes I'm sorry it's kind of my testing about two members of the public that arrivedly and asked if they have if you can open all the time I I absolutely can I absolutely can um

can I have a motion to reopener thank you is there a second second by Kathy second bye Kathy motion by Dan second by Kathy any discussion all in favor motion passes public comment please for taking on this task could you give us your name hi Nelson thank you yes uh 210 Sunset Hills I know that language you know some paid elections telling us before as many times you know it's it's uh requires some

attention to look that to be rectified as Fair but my thing is I know that I don't know if this board has came to the recall portion yet I don't know has been discussed yet not yet all right um I know this will be a lot of attempt to want to uh we we hash that whole thing and make it more free yes my thing is this future reference if someone is indicted whatever the case mean

if they have not been charged and they can still come to work every day see because Mayors have assistance that attend meetings on their behalf all the time moderates Commonwealth out of the Commonwealth I was on part of the foot association meeting or a board I should say and Senator Mike Rogers had his own assistant appear on it on his behalf even though he's supposed to be just another locations

so my thing is you know uh just because a mayor gets indicted it shows they should still be able to still perform the dues um because I think in the court of in the court of law everyone's listening to approval guilty that's why we have a court system second just because a mayor gets recalled recall valid does that mean he or she who happens to achieve yes has to happen in front of the camera that person

should still be able to to fight for their job because it's up to the people to make that determination after assessing all the candidates because technically the first question to which basically says should this election be allowed to go vote and then that's the case they assessed and made the determination so if there's anything changed to that this city would be subject to lawsuits

because the U.S Constitution says everyone has the right to run for office regardless of service and they're going to appoint to battle that was used recently and is going to show that hey he was allowed to run for office why can't I so it's just

just because you've been recalled you cannot appearance you can't you can't do that that's unrealisticated it's not democratic utility so I think that's what should stand um and the thing is you cannot tell someone that they cannot run for the off just because you don't like that person everyone has the right to fight for the job and to be fair to be unbiased and talk who can work to be recalled I

would want him to have the same opportunity to appear at the bottom of the valley that's how the process has to be whenever the people decide it is what it is just it will be also after lawsuit um if it gets put forward in that way so then again I think it's just something that I know and I'm speaking a future reference here some Mayors may not likely held accountable don't like the fact that

citizens can just initiate a recall because they don't like what's going on that's that's the system living and and Mark was born five and the state's Constitution says that elected officials aren't answerable to people at all times so and that's and that's a state statute it's in the state constitution I just want to get that out there and um thank you thank you madam chairwoman and members of the committee

I did see on the agenda today I believe the conversation is for articles one through five could you could you give us your name I apologize that's okay Hyundai is 560 Gray Street Fall River um I'll save my comments for the recall portion I have my own two cents and ideas on that but I'll save that for a future date I want to um quickly and I don't have a um prepared remarks so I'm briefly discuss

section 3-jays and section 3-1 C of the city Charter instructions 3-8 I believe um has to do with temporary absence of the mayor I remember back in 2019 it was used to remove the former Mass career unsuccessful we have two dollars actually was challenged before and the poor team I believe and please correct me if I'm wrong dad because the mayor is elected by the people he is answerable to the people

there's plenty of question debate about the language in that section some says that it applies just to um a health disability temporary disability of the mayor of any mayor however in that situation I believe it was crucial or important the city council took the right vote in my opinion back in that time and to take a look in mustache Rhode Island last year they actually had impeachment

proceedings to remove their mayor for questionable acts and I think that doesn't go towards criminal guilt or innocence that goes towards conduct while in office which can or cannot be may or may not be different than criminal conduct that can definitely be different I believe the committee should look into and definitely get the outside legal opinion into the matter whether we can add a section to the chart that

calls for the impeachment of a mayor and the removal of a mayor and they'll allow that mayor to have due process a hearing and rights under the law in order for there to be fairness in the system I believe they're definitely times where a recall could be costly time consuming it's not an easy processing process but there are times there might be an emergency the city council has to act in the best duties of

the city which I believe it did in 2019 and um real quickly on that and 3-1 C I believe that covers um the city council's Authority I believe when it comes to investigations I believe two cities should expand its role city council should have every right as it does to be the checks and balance to the administration no matter who the administration is it is important that it is detailed clearly detailed that any

city counselor and members of the school committee for that matter but I'll stick to the city council for today can ask for information can request documents then there is nothing that can repeat them stop that counselor for asking for information because those counselors are elected by the people they are a voice of everyone in this room and everyone out in the public that's been something

that's been a discussion recently at City Council meetings I believe in the last few years that's something that you can definitely be expanded upon the city council's ability to look into and make an inquiry look into any matter that comes before his rightful body I appreciate everyone for your time thank you sure Mr Vaz no problem two things I think the city councils grow clearly defined uh didn't explore when

it comes to that budget management previous budget uh they rejected the budget that they can Finance but it wasn't considered in action and the clock ran out uh and that budget was allowed to pass so I think going forward while there is a finance or full Council if the city whoever Rejects that should stand and that should be a form of action and the clock should stop so that uh there's no these political

brains standing back and forth in addition to that when a city council rejects it the that Administration cannot resubmit the same budgets we have to put in the changes that the city council wants because you just cannot keep on listening the same budget just to run out the clock and have your budget pass because at the end of the day the city council is the appropriate body and and as a very important role and

lastly in terms of our elections cycle I think our elections should be held during the presidential election cycle for the country because that's going to save money that's going to increase voter turnout and that's when the country holds a new president a new Congress so why not put that into the same cycle because uh have votal fatigue you know the way it is now is that we have new Council and

then it's the midterms suspension cycle so that could be recommended to the council I think the city has a whole eventful but I don't know maybe to put Power elections during the presidential success thank you Mr Vaz thank you all right anybody else before we uh continue alrighty and thank you thank you for your input we're glad you're here we left off at City website anybody have any comments concerns come

on so uh City website and write a site so I think it has to be an online an online something's describing where this site is okay this is online here and one of the things that bothered me about that was an uh an online site established and maintained by the city but I always people always kind of I'm not saying this is not an opinion shouldn't it be like who in the city

should be maintaining and doing this do we have an I.T department does you know does the information go through the city clerk like for instance of the city clerk's office contacted me and said what information do you want on the chart or website and my suggestion was well I don't think you put 2022 Charter info on 2017 Charter committee info can you make a separate link for the 2022

special Charter Review Committee can we start there so is it the city clerk that you contact for like who maintains this website maybe we need that so it when it says an online site established and maintained by the city isn't it like shouldn't it maybe be me more specific so we know okay okay because I believe the purpose of having this City website definition is for posting purposes the city clerk

must post notices and meetings of that major on the city website I don't know if it needs to be defined in the charter I think most people know what a website is and it's possible the definition could change um you know within our whatever it's cityfallriver.org or whatever that City website is I'm not sure we need your definition well I think you need to Define it because elsewhere in the

charter they refer to the city website right but isn't that kind of kind of I would say we definitely need to take out some parts yeah it's long so I don't think about a city period yeah period more accessible on the internet right it doesn't have to be well City website an online site established and maintained by the city of Fall River I'm sorry I got to do it as it's online repository of

Municipal information period I don't know I mean in this day and age isn't a City website newspapers what is it yes I actually do think so because what I've noticed is that if you go to look at for example minutes are not being posted on assembly so they used to be posted along with the agendas of now if we try to look minutes are missing so I would suggest substantive issue here is that

the website should be defined and should require the posting of all minutes and City and agendas in minutes for all of the deposites because that's important so you would instead of Municipal information you would add minutes objectives and minutes of all what commissions right so so City website an online site established and maintained by the city of Fall River as its online repository

of Municipal information including but not limited to agendas minutes it could that list could go on but whether I don't think you need to go to but I don't think you need the second path the second part whether on the internet right so if you if you take that out but put including but not limited to agendas minutes maybe somebody could draw something up for that one I'm not a voting number on this I just

want to at least make everybody understand that there are probably over 30 committees some of which are not I.T Savvy um they're not all the city council members which I believe they post all their agendas in minutes they do um I mean I just want the support to understand that it might be logistical undertaking to require minutes of each and every board in the city to be posted on the city website but but in this day

and age that should be on the City website we're short in the I.T department but we're not saying that it has to we're just saying we're just saying that the website has a repository that has that kind of information available to it so if nine out of 10 you know committees do it that's fine right someone should be able to say if I want to look for this information I know I can go to the

website we're not listing what committee no no nothing like but if it's in the charter somebody might run and say I should be asking this information online where's my minutes and so we could get in trouble with that for that one committee that didn't published leave it as online repository Municipal information I mean that's my suggestion was that all committees agendas and minutes should be published because I

know that buying a prize absolutely I'm I'm in agreement with you I know but is that the definite definition or is that a different section in the charter the charter I think it's more important all boards commissions and committees the post of Memphis and minutes of all feeding on the big weapon money but is that a definition is that is part of the definition or that's just it is yeah descriptions of something yeah

website is the city repository yeah that's it can we return to this section we can yeah is that a motion to table not indefinitely though okay no we're having more discussion go ahead I don't know if there is a session section of the charter that talks about the I.T Department there is not and that may be a record but it could be something that we add well I think that I mean I think we

certainly need to address the changing technology I I don't doubt that when I read this I went I I marked down that that was one of the definitions that we needed to fix and I thought that we the charter should address how its citizens get its information right so is there a motion to table the city website yes any more discussion we're just gonna order right is there a second right is there a

second on the motion to table the city website section there's a second by John Mitchell all in favor okay so in section one seven number five City website the motion to table that has been allowed moving on emergency I actually wrote notes I thought it needed more me too I I actually put in mind including but not limited to acts of God like the weather fiscal Financial I mean you definitely because

covet taught us a lot right about emergencies yeah well I think the actor died in there it may make sense to come back to this one won't you see how it's defined or used later in the document for example I know one of the uses of it is emergency meeting for the city council and that's probably the most common example um right there are there's one train of thought I'm not trying to everybody

share the debate one train of thought is they get to Define what they believe in emergency is oh you know it's not necessarily an act of God but if they believe um the circumstances require a meeting that doesn't take place two weeks down the road then they can Define it themselves um so I think emergency is mentioned somewhere in either job performance or offices was when the president of the city

council stepped out as the president of city council was it or was it not an emergency to declare a new president because Charter doesn't necessarily have the vice president step up right definition but the point is they believed it was an emergency they called an emergency meeting I don't really think there is necessity to Define it what what you nine people who live in versus I think having them Define it is

appropriate so unless there's another use for the word emergency I don't necessarily see a problem with the city council in Korean for an emergency based upon their definitions but you've said you've had it as we how would you define emergency well not like that I mean that really doesn't add anything to the document in my opinion um because who determines to look at where it is

it's in a couple spots it's in a it's in a couple spots it's um about meetings and it's in right and it's uh somewhere in um some of the jobs you know uh some of the uh positions motion to table there's a motion seconded by Laura motion to table by Mimi segmented by Laura on favor motion passes so number six is tabled as well and I would strongly suggest that you

know maybe when when that when these table like definitions especially maybe we all try to come up with you know um definitions and and then brainstorm at the at you know whenever it comes back up again number seven full City Council the entire authorized membership of the city council despite any notwithstanding any vacancy which might exist Alan I my nose basically I think you could take out the word authorized

in India at the end of city council so it'll be the entire membership of the city council that's it because if you're vacant you're not a member of the city council I mean it's like I don't know why they put vacancy in there like why did they need to I we're just saying if there's a vacancy yeah it's so constitute oh okay okay all right so it could read the entire membership

wait a minute where am I the entire where the entire membership of the city council period and then it's the same then for eight and nine so eight and nine following that that line of thought full multi-member body the entire membership of a multi-member body striking despite any vacancy did they put that in though because they were trying to say if somebody's missing that's not a full membership

to say that it's considered a full membership even if someone's missing right would and would that be a problem a vacancy is not they didn't show up the vacancy is the seats vacant right what's the term for City Council right yeah yeah I don't know like can someone shout let's just say for instance um there's a meeting and every and everybody isn't there one of the seats are vacant does that

mean that the vote that that right so right so quorums address that that's what I mean when there's a vacancy or somebody not missing somewhere in this document the term full city council must be used in a technical sense isn't it used when you would think but I'm not sure you're correct I think that's what I'm saying I think we're ahead about it yeah I think we should go over definitions but after we see one

we're taking them in a general sense right yeah I think one thing to do is maybe have a subcommittee just then yeah not a bad idea the issue that comes up on a regular basis is you know what constitutes majority for voting purposes is it as a majority of the members that are present president of the night and generally speaking and later on when we get to City Council you'll see for

them to pass an ordinance it specifically States notwithstanding these definitions it states that it has to be a majority of the full city council so once again I'm not sure we need the definition here if we're then going to Define it later on although you always need at least at minimum five votes per pass on the order and some require things I would say typically most rules not not

necessarily Fall River is you just need a majority of the Quorum present well that's not usually the case in Poland so it's probably why these definitions are here but I think yeah John's right who probably can hold off on somebody's until we see how they're used not a bad idea and change the definition is there emotion all right I'll second that is I can't make it you can okay so there's a motion to take the

definitions review take it up at another date can we wait until until after General Wars well I think the essence of it of the motion was because these definitions come up in areas that we don't know that we go back to definitions as we go along right I don't see why we need 10 general laws and 11 general laws um right from my reading palette and maybe something will come up we use

I don't know where the lowercase general laws is ever used in this chart so no I have no idea

so I here's the deal we can we can whiz through some of these and if some of them are complicated we can always go back I mean what we're talking about right now is not the written in stone you know the final version right I mean we're still going to do a report I mean so if emergency if if five six seven eight and nine is something that we need

to come back to then let's just come back to it and then right I mean we can go back and forth I think there needs to be some flexibility with the definitions but I agree with Alan though 10 and 11 are redundant let's pick one or combine them yeah 10 is so can I ask a robot a question no you cannot you can look it up in the book

well I just if we table the motion then we have to lift it to the table every time that we talk about it so if we just delay the discussion do we have to we don't have to well that's why I didn't want to motion to table okay I didn't want to say that okay so because so we have an emotion and the motion on the floor is that we can go back and

forth with the direction right because we need to see where they're used right so that was my point it's not difficult except that you have to put it on the agenda right thanks so yeah but so things come up as we discuss so if it's not on the agenda so I would just say to to easier to make it easier that we just do what you got your make your emotion um Mr robillard

the discussion and definitions some discussion all right what was the first motion made the motion was there a motion table because it's all that same for us well there's two motion this motions to table five and six that emotion table takes preference those motions to table were made in past five and six okay then there was another motion what was that the way any further discussion of definition

that was made by Mr Campo seconded by Mr Nickerson okay and there's any more discussion on delaying the discussion of the definitions all in favor aye I'm abstaining I'm abstaining from that so if we go then we're at legislative branch um the branch section 2-1 composition term of offices eligibility number one composition there should be a city council consisting of nine members elected at large which shall exercise

the legislative powers of the city I have had at least 10 phone calls about a discussion on Ward voting

and I've had phone calls about changing the number instead of nine to less members at Large just to let you know what the phone calls have been Ward or less City councilors what are the typical number of City councilors in other City cities in Massachusetts is this is various number consistent with with other with what what other cities do I don't know let me ask you that question um New Bedford has more businesses

but they have a hybrid they have at once and awards and at large I did some I did I did some research because I was like wondering where did nine come from were nine Wards in Fall River we've always have been but then but you know right now we have about 90 something thousand people in Fall River in the 1900s somewhere in there we had almost a a hundred and I I got to

tell you something the numbers were crazy but all we had was three we had three Selectmen at one time when the population had 50 000 more so I you know I don't know I mean I'm not educated on Ward voting I just know that I looked back in Fall River's history and we we started out with three Selectmen it wasn't until later on that we ended up with a mayor then we had a

mayor that served for four years then we went to two then we went back to four I mean in at the height of fall River's population you know between the late 1800s and the early 1900s we had like 147 000 people that were only governed by three Selectmen so I know sometimes I I you know I said to myself geez Nine's a lot is nine enough is nine too many

I don't know just a little food for thought there terms of whether there's a one representation at large representation or a hybrid and obviously we need further discussion about the merits each of those systems but whatever the committee recommends or the voters have a choice so in other words the quotas vote for a private system and blood system for that large system while the charter establishes how we

govern ourselves right so when it goes before the voters it's would you like to because the last time on the ballot it was just two questions you want to vote in favor of this new Charter and everybody was supplied with copies of the proposed new Charter right before they went to the voting booth one would hope they read it some did some didn't I would may say I might not have

read the whole thing so I don't I but I don't know I mean I guess that's that's what I'm suggesting if we think about is Right giving the voters different options that would then be a wake-up Outlet can we do that I don't know if it'll be a part of this process really the charter is going to be either even gets to the voters this could simply be recommendations that are put

on file for five years for five more years right five more years but assuming it immediately got to the voters um I mean I think they would either vote to approve it or not to be able to approve this paragraph but not fair right I don't think you can you can't peace meal it so um my reading of it is when this is all done in in a report is prepared a report

with these proposed changes to the Charter that the committee has discussed voted on and and it goes through a process I don't think you get to piecemeal pieces of it however one of my other problems with the charter is you know let's take for instance the the the part of our Charter right now that the courts have said are you know um unconstitutional holding two offices they said that's not okay and we didn't

have a mechanism in this Charter to go and amend that they just declared it you know one of my other problems with this Charter is that there is no mechanism for amending the charter before a five or ten year because you know after that that lawsuit came down there should have been a mechanism to strike that from our Charter but this Charter doesn't have a mechanism to that for that right so

let's say the recommendation is to go a hundred Wards right not hold for midnight should have never been put in that said of sitting in Hawaii can't seek or run for Public Works start with that's where that came down right but there but what I'm saying is our Charter had no mechanism we still have a charter that that language is still in it agreed but if that language will never pass we wouldn't have been in that

situation and as it exists right now I believe any reference to the compensation of two positions or holding a weapon officer for clarity I just want to call it the headphones okay and any part of that I believe needs to be struck out of this job as well as the other two sections that the courts have already ruled us right but this Charter doesn't have a mechanism for that and I think that's one of the

problems with the charter is that a mechanism you know there needs to be a mechanism here to say if the court declared this unconstitutional I don't know what let's just say we say instead of incurring the cost of putting on the ballot that we're striking that part why not the full Council of information so or what we're saying is that we can only review this for five years and then it's gonna sit for another

question because that's ridiculous are we able to make our suggestions and then West that it goes for changes that we need is that what we can do we prepare a report with our recommended changes okay okay and so we it goes to this it goes to the city clerk she stamps it yeah she sends it to the city council because maybe the recommendation of the committee is city council these changes need to be made

right city council votes on it okay approves it or doesn't then it goes to the mayor and then the mayor approves it or it doesn't and then it goes to Boston to the AG's office for the municipal Law Department to look at it and say one of two things it comports with state law or it violates state law and then it comes back and then it goes on the ballot so

let's see if we have the ability if that's how the if that's how the process goes if if all the yays come down I think we should make recommendations in the report on all of these things that way we've spoken I'm I'm with I mean I'll do I I'm gonna go along whatever the board does but I I would like to think that the charter needs a immediate uh revision that's my

position I mean we've had lawsuits we've got a unconstitutional clause in there and we can't change it you know I mean whatever we decide we need to make a recommendation

so uh when it comes to this Ward versus at Large yeah how do we want to handle that Well I this is what I have been thinking it's just a suggestion not a motion that um I looked at other Charters I've spoken to people that live in other cities that have Ward and I know I think I have a pretty good understanding of the pros and cons you know um nine counselors for Fall River

seems to be working but guess what when we had 40 000 more people three Selectmen seemed to work when Fall River was richer than it ever could have been for those times three Selectmen were fine and then at one point there were three Selectmen and one mayor and the mayor served for four years and we had more people living here and that seemed to be fine so I don't know that's just

my Spiel I don't I always thought nine was a lot but then you know I guess I mean there are certain instances like where we know there are pain points in this Charter because something happened right but if there are instances where we have nothing to justify changes right I hear you if it works everything no because that's going to be a big fight yeah but I mean we have we know pain

points and we know there are certain areas that we need to address so my feeling is that if it doesn't if it ain't broke don't fix it and that's really against having nine as a opinion of the board here of the board is there any one person at large um city councilors is not working whereas that we need to revive them no I've been thinking since my recommendation that these questions be

presented to the voters got shot down Justified I was thinking that maybe we should make some effort to send out questions to the public to invite their comments because I have I have no idea but if we could specifically send out and I know we've had some articles about the childhood committee so we can get some publicity and send out a question the committee is going to be discussing

what the number of city councilors award councilors term limits right well that's the term for the mayor and you see what the voters have to say we encourage specific feedback and my question originally was what is the general feel of that I don't know if there's any if there's any feeling about no one's told me any I mean I haven't heard that anyone's upset with the way things are not to say that they're happy

with all the people that are there always but it's not necessarily that it's the I haven't had anyone say to me that I don't like when they're being nine counselors well and I heard earlier that well we oftentimes have difficulty getting people to run for office right so when you think about nine people that's a lot of that's a lot of people and so when I think about that comment

in relation to this I've brought it up to see how the board feels about less counselors about that number and if there's anything too so you know as these counselors age out and is there going to be a younger generation to come in I'm not sure that we're seeing that necessarily so yeah we could have an issue where people are getting voted if you don't belong I mean there's a lot of

reasons to discuss this I just don't know if you know you know we're opening up Pandora and I only brought it up because those were the those were the comments that people made yeah are you guys going to talk about Ward I said yeah sure I'll talk about anything you bring to me I'll take to the committee so that's why I brought it I think it's good though I don't know what our abilities are to put

this out to the public because at the end of the day the voters are going to be the ones who you know who are so can we do that you know can we get that's resource intensive I just have a suggestion um we are time sensitive here we have to what June to file a report we know we have some big issues on the table that we need to discuss right away such as

stuff that's been shot down in court so I think some of the things that are not a precedent issue maybe we should wait and discuss that maybe if we have time at the end or they'll have to wait for the 10-year mock but I think that we have some heavy pressing issues that we need to fix ASAP and I'm with you I think nine counselors two years staggered is fine I mean I I'm

of I'm of Kathy's if it if it isn't broke don't fix it if somebody wants to do a movement to go to Ward God bless them let's get a grassroot movement going we'll change to work I like Ward because I think areas of Fall River are underrepresented but I mean I'm just wanna you know I don't like wood so we could all right right all day long but we haven't had any

public input that has said you know what I'm saying there's no one here tonight saying you need to talk about Ward yes so I think we should not to say I think that we should personally we should focus on the stuff that's been in court that we need to change right and then if we have time down the road to you know Frolic along in that yeah I mean that works I just so can we

it seems like there's some Crescent issues there is pressing issues can we make like a list of that perhaps because obviously we need to go through this documentary so um I said a bunch of things that were you know obviously with court cases and things that we need to address um those are big ticket items that we should try to deal with right strategically I mean recall seems to be a hot button issue

um and I think recall ties in with eligibility which is coming up next I mean um I think eligibility term offices recall um were the hot button issues that's most of the calls what I was thinking is that is the correct decision um we have the Joshua hetzler right it might be helpful enough get those decisions and send them and send them out okay yeah the hetzler and the and the career

yes well they were the ones that generated a lot of um legal action

yep they attempted to remove so was that I I don't know about that was that challenged in court I didn't okay you're right didn't vote I I will say if if I'm getting it correctly it is that when the mayor was recalled he was recalled but then put back on he was on the ballot he was able to be moved so that's a that's a language issue that we need to look at

so that we need to look at the can you work in the city government and serve on a city office that needs to be looked at well and you know it comes under eligible you know when I thought about eligibility is one of those areas that you can address those concerns like you know any voter shall be eligible to hold office of counsel at large if a council at large removes from the city that

office shall immediately deem begin but I think on eligibility you could also put the language you know any City you know any City councilor who's convicted while holding the office you know what I mean and you know shall be deemed ineligible for that election I mean there's ways to look at it under eligibility recall and uh that's just yeah what I thought um it's 6 55. did we um

Mr clerk did we uh ever vote on a time limit for the committee meetings like did we say we were staying here for two three five hours was there a motion ever made in common yeah I think we did but I think I'll make a motion that it's two hours not to exceed two hours but we only did I'll second that motion there's a motion on the table for the special Charter review committee

meetings not to exceed two hours is there a