1.14.2025 Community Preservation Committee

is Joan no uh welcome to the community preservation committee meeting being held at one government center uh city council hearing room it's Tuesday January 14 2025 6: PM uh pursuant to the open meeting laws any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or make transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are

being made whether perceived are unperceived by those present and deemed acknowledged and permissible we'll start with roll call to my left uh Michael Fus Chris Benavides Alexander Silva John Brant James Hornsby Rick mancy BJ McDonald and we have Chris Al on Zoom Chris hello might be the lag y Chris Christen Kara Oliver ending remotely by Zoom okay and we're missing uh Joan Bentley

um um you no citizen input I see no uh can I have a motion for approval of the uh meetings from January 9th I'll make a motion to approve the meetings of January 9th second okay roll call vote I vote Yes Michael feris Chris Benavides yes Alex Silva yes John BR yes yes James Rick Mancini yes BJ McDonald yes Chris Kristen can olera yes okay thank you all right uh before we start the

deliberation I'm going to have Sandy come up and uh because deliberation we're going to need to know how much we have to spend so she's going to go over the sheet uh that we have right now it'll probably be up it again before next week but we'll have the exact numbers by our

meeting thank you cheat notes that's what I want more notes please are we on television yes we are yeah we are any fans out there can you hear me Jim can you hear okay can you hear me now yes okay I'll speak loud and into the mic I don't think they're on they're on yeah they're on yep I can hear that Jim okay okay um Sandy Dennis administrator for the community preservation committee and I

will briefly explain the breakdown down of the funding available for your FY 26 projects uh everyone received the auditor report that I emailed you and I gave everyone a hard copy and just to explain the numbers projected FY 26 CPC sources um the Top's pretty self-explanatory it's what you have available from the state um and local Revenue tax which is 1.81 6443 milon now you'll look below and you'll see

3,842 92 that is not what you have available for spending the 30250 are your two bonds which is the land acquisition and the combined Fall River Central fire station and fire Museum and that total is 30225 the 45,000 is your admin this amplifier uh if you put these in your ears you should be able to hear her better these I'll try it I tried it the other night and it didn't work for the U we'll see

okay thank you so the 302 25045 adds up to 347 250 and you need to subtract that John you turn it you it it's on so if you subtract that from the 237 3708 you're going to get the two you're going to get the 2026 458 okay so the 1816 443 minus your bonds gives you available for this year 1.46 9193 million now you have to remember you don't have any open space projects and

you have to put that minimum amount back into your reserves so you need to subtract that amount of money from your funding that's available that's where the little cheat sheet comes in place for you so now basically what you have available this year to spend to date is$ 1.28 7549 million don't forget when you're voting for your projects and you're funding any new projects you have to add your deed

restriction and filing fee which is another $625 so an example if you fund a project at $120,000 you got to fund it at $20,617 okay so keep that in mind um Alex and myself will I'm hoping Alex and myself will be calculating the figures as you go along per project so we'll start deducting each project from that $1.2 million for you then you have your 1.2 available but if you look down on the auditor sheet you

still have another $249,100 available so if you've used up 1.2 million but you still have a housing project just keep in mind you still have an extra 249 that the committee has not used they've put that money back into your funds because last year for instance the committee did not vote for any housing projects so that minimum amount that's required for each C category went back into

housing and then you don't have any open space projects this year but just know that you have a little bit of a reserve of 2750 um you pretty much every year use up your historic preservation money so you you almost never have any kind of reserves in that for a balance so Alex um so can you just explain for everyone uh so the unreserved undesignated fund balance that isn't available yet and

like where that's coming from and when it will projects that you voted on but you haven't used up your money yet basically so that 2,373 those are projects that you've already funded the money's in the account but you can't really use it because it's already been allocated but those are the funds that are going to be returning to the committee once no those are projects that are outstanding that

are showing out yes outstanding that you still have to pay for okay when is the other fund going to be put back in don't know let's don't know and I I'm going to work on on um I'm going to work on another report for all of you on that so I'm thinking maybe if if a small committee may be yourself and Alex and Kristen we can meet uh go over it make

sure that you know everything's in order I can do a report for the committee and let you know how many unused funds we have because you have extensions that are going to be coming up in March so you're going to have to revisit your extensions if you want to you know extend them again or just sorry but the money comes back so I'm I'm going to be working on that report once we get

through the annual meeting and all that stuff so do you think this number will change by our next meeting if we collect more Revenue it'll it'll change but how about the money that wasn't spent that was returned it's never going to get back in on time for voting so that but I'm just saying for just keep it be yeah just keep in mind it'll be in the reserve so if you

have an emergency project or or a land acquisition project comes up and somebody has to come and apply to purchase some land and you'll have all that extra money as soon as it's put back into the appropriate categories just be nice to know that what you have quite a bit just so you know you have quite a bit I don't want to tell you I don't want to it between all three categories probably over another million

dollars that you have and these are projects that um for some reason they were under budget so they didn't spend all their money so we get to have it back there were projects that never Happ happened or they ended up with drawing um like the academica ended up with drawing so we got all that money back and to confirm this oh sorry go ahead James go ahead was this would would the Niagara

neighborhood path be one of those or has that money been returned um I have that information if you want to give me a minute sorry I I requested the planning Department several times to tell me and they didn't sorry is it the Niagara bath yeah Niagara bike path St that money's coming back to us no no that not that was not my question do we have the money or have

they not returned it yet it's going to get returned to us in our category we don't have it yet it's not available yet the reason I'm asking that is I was one of the initiators of that as a co-founder of the Niagara neighborhood Council and was actively following that with Mr Lima who died H died and um I then called the I would guess several months later what I could cope with it I called the planning

department and spoke to somebody and then they never got back to me and I certainly when the planning department said they couldn't do it or they weren't returning the money they said that was because there was no interest there was not a lot of interest and they had to get uh uh every house to sign off that the bike path was coming in front of their house so there was a

lot of logistic things that just didn't work out so that's why they returned to well they certainly didn't tell people who were who were interested in it I know that's the real problem it was never mentioned in neighborhood council meeting nor were the initiators of informed well we can we can bring that up at another time I want to stay so does everybody understand just two more questions um

Sandy the million plus that you were discussing in reserve that's not on the sheet no okay just want to make sure I'm not missing it so that I'll I'll work on it's going to take me a while cuz it's a lot of yeah yeah no worries I just want to make sure I wasn't missing that years fair enough yeah okay so I apologize I have three questions uh the first one could you just explain what

the bondings for that you've taken the money out that's minus from the 1.81 6443 the bonding is for $347,400 my understanding from what your bonds at 302 250 admin cost admin is another 45 okay I apologize you those two those two the bonds are 3022 250 and so one was for you had to bond the firehouse is that correct one's land acquisition that's a 10-year bond okay so we're into that probably we're

probably in our fifth year with that the land acquisition um the central fire station is a combined bond with the for fire Museum okay that's about $222 plus thousand on that Bond that's a fiveyear bond they're in there I think they're in their third year with that Bond okay um so that's what that is so you're in sad thing is that paid off before they start it well that's yeah was that was

one of my questions is where are they at on the schedule of design builds that I don't manage the out the fire museum for bids because it took so long the roof price doubled yeah from what we okay so the uh Bond money they took with what they uh and added it to um let finish the mo I I remember the meeting I just wanted this mostly for the public the general public to hear

why you know we send this money out it sits there things don't get done or why and I just wanted to make that publicly clear and I I think they starting on the central fire station yes I know the bids are coming in for the uh the museum and I think he sent out the bids for the Central and so uh the second question I have is so for instance in this uh open

space I'm assuming this bike path funds would come back if it does come back uh that I'm assuming you were using that in a category didn't use it now you have to take the 10% off of that WR off the bat put it into that funds and then yeah back it back in so I just because when you when people hear money in a certain amount at the end of

the day they they're like well wait a minute what are we doing with this money and if it comes back we have an Avenue where we have to split this up has to go 10% and and such notot so um but each project whatever is remaining that exact amount will go into that category and what I'll do is the when I do the report for you I'll break down each category

but then I'll even break it down on City projects po projects separate than City okay and then private private private private nonprofit so I will you'll know exactly what category it's going and what entity applied for it okay and then the other the last one that I have a question on is so um from my understanding is that historical is always capped out we don't really you're not almost never almost never we do have

a cap out of $249,250 that could be used but you need to go to all of the spending of this year which is the 1.2 well actually you can use 181 644 for community housing and then you can use use the 188 644 plush or 24915 and then you can use everything else um you got to keep 188 644 in historic preservation and 1816 but then anything you can put that in

any other category you want so let's say between your open space your historic preservation your community housing you add your 31 181s up um and then your 249 if it let's let's hypothetically say it hits um $750,000 you can use that other $400,000 in any other category you want okay all right we'll keep track of that as we're voting sure yeah no I I I appreciate that thank you than last question sorry

quick one I think you said that the revenue the tax revenue could change depending on how much comes in potentially would the state match change at all or is that kind of Lo don't know John we won't get that till uh probably February March but we're not talking about big dollars change it's just no probably get uh we got 270 something so far I think last year we got like another 180 after that so okay we

normally get about 4 to 500,000 from the state okay I'd base your voting on your 1.2 million okay be a little more conservative and then in the just way in the back know that we have all this extra money that at some Point's going to go back in okay for you whether you use it this year or next year and then one last question on the the finance component of it uh so say hypothetically

we come down to a number uh for a project and I'm just using a half a million dollars for a project hypothetically and we feel that we can allocate $300,000 of that uh are we allowed to do that breakup based on our we're going to start tonight is we're going to go over the project yep and um we can uh say project is uh uh I don't know

uh don't to use a project well we take a project uh the Water building MH we're going to look at that project say we just want to do the roof MH or we want to do windows Yep we can pick that and start okay you know you can dissect a project you can look at night out and say oh I only think we should do the sign or we don't want to do that we just

want to do a portion of something you know it's kind of like a little horse trading and uh we try to use the funds the best we can uh if the purpose calls for it that we don't have to fund anything if we don't think the projects are worthy of funding so and one last question could I just get a a vote of uh hands of if this is their first time

going through this process at the table so uh oh Jim two in J four of us and then Christine has been yeah yeah I think Jo did we do last year been three years yeah okay one last question yes by uh the Niagara money the Niagara Trail money would come back into the acquisition for Land open Recreation open space Recreation yeah open space and Recreation category yes open space and Recreation Recreation they're one

category fine thank you you're wel thank you okay thanks Andy thanks Andy Andy and we go over this again before we vote MH yeah next week and uh yeah realize that you're all comfortable with it next week is more so the number talk okay yeah uh can I ask a general question just as it relates to the projects and historically how this board views them because in my mind when I've been

thinking about it and Sandy kind of alluded to it as far as the the projects that are City projects or nonprofit projects I kind of P in one bucket where it seems like the sole funding for some of these things is the CPC versus some of the other projects that sounds like they have secured outside funding and I'm just wondering what the balance is or or how that's typically been looked

at we look to every project to have uh additional funding we like to come in like the second third wheel where they've gone out after extra grants and you can look at that and prioritize that too if somebody comes in and they've got a nonprofit for say they're doing a million dollars but they they raised uh 700,000 of it to us that looks good we come in and help them because they went

out they got the money where somebody's just coming in asking us for the whole million makes it up sure you know and some of those private projects it's to me anyway sounds like when they have their own skin in the game they're going to move along a lot quicker and we're not going to have the fun returning and some of these issues where things are going on a couple years where nothing's

happened and we've earm moed this money right that is that fair too some of our other projects we did I mean um the banks look at that when uh the local CPA uh invest in the building that the city's behind it they think it's a good project so the bank looks at it as being favorable so when they're borrowing 8 10 million doll that redo a building our little it's taxpayers money is still a lot two

$300,000 it's still a lot of money but to them it's a a nice chunk you know of approval project look good sure you know the perfect example is this Niagara bike path is that unless you have a very strong sustainable organization that you kind of U have a AIT a plan of um progression who's going to take over in the future some of those projects just kind of go to the Wayside and so the one

thing I'd also recommend to you being in the development industry is that a lot of private sector projects that are asking for money they basically you have a company but a company always does an LLC liit a limited liability Corporation it's a standalone project one of the things that you want to look at is that they have a good history of accomplishing these other ones because they could take the money

and dash and be out the door and so there's no way to recoup that and so um one of the things I look at on the historical portion of that especially when it has more than one category like historical housing do they have the past history of not just taking the money and running because that happens quite a bit in development and doesn't matter what size or scale it does happen Okay um and then I

just want to add that uh in the past we the CPC Community preservation committee we have a document that usually we update every year it's kind of like our master plan in the past there was language actually written into it that gave a preference um to public and nonprofit projects over private projects um I don't remember if we took that language out in the reiteration but we're going to be updating that plan

this summer again so we can talk about it you know then that's certainly my my feeling is that those kinds of projects and also nonprofit and governmental are kind of high prior higher PR priority maybe although the Flint stuff is also is in a way related to that because it's clearly as it's clearly as the mayor says um it's part of renovation of the Flint and I live next the church is next door to

the Flint we can certainly agree the Flint needs fixing yeah all right well let's move on to this we can uh I just look at project as not private or a nonprofit or city is it a need for the city uh because if you outruled uh private side they're the ones who fund CPA so you don't want to say we're directly nonprofit all the time you want to look at projects on an

individual basis it's more accurate to say that this is an important issue thank you for discussing it sharing that yeah it's more accurate to say that the taxpayers fund it not NE not necessarily just the private projects CU sometimes those owners are out of out of municip out of town out of city but um okay we're going to start with uh 1270 um Pleasant Street uh she to bring that up they're looking for

300,000 uh now this as as historic and housing uh we can put it in one category if you want uh when we uh come next week to the voting stage uh whoever makes the motion uh we're going to write I apologize I'm looking at your list here which I went by theend okay so I just want to put it back into uh so what are the what's the order of your

documents I went from the agenda the first agenda then the second agenda so which project are we talking about right now they were talking about 1270 uh Pleasant Street okay thank you oh my goodness but when we get to uh uh making the motion uh we're not making motions no no no I'm saying next week when we get to making the motion you got to write it down everything that's going to go into it from uh

uh uh we have to be we have to be specific in the grant award language about the conditions we want to put on the funding and anything that we want required attached to the grant that be specifically in our grant award uh funding so we vote specifically on the language has to be very particular as as tonight we're talking about it if something pops up put it in your notes

this way come next week you'll have it and you want to include it uh some project you might uh not like or you would like if it had this language in it so make sure you write that down uh like I said on this project it's uh stor or housing you can split it up they're looking for 300,000 they're investing 5.5 um any comments from the board I mean they have historical letter the mayor's

office uh letter a letter from for R Development Authority let's go with this um for handicap accesses is fine they're doing seven affordable housing yep um do you guys have any comments on the the comments that I made last week uh again these were the things that I would put in here um the the pros to this project is is that they are tipping into both uh needs in the city preservation of

historical building yeah so there are two basically categories that they're um looking for funding and they're going to help the city on is one uh creating 25% affordable housing in this particular project um of the two this candidate has two projects this one is the larger of the two with um roughly 21 residential units and again based on their applications in six storefronts so one

of the things that we're looking at is revitalization of the flont and specifically stor front activities it so it hits a bunch of different categories on on this the one thing that I had said during our last meeting that still applies to here is their phasing it's pretty aggressive I understand the first I believe nine units are already existing they're going to get them up to

code get them occupied so they have some general erated Revenue it was their time frame when they started getting to the outside of the building again um a lot of the things that I uh get a little uh anxiety about is associated with we want to see stuff done sooner than later and I think the public wants to see stuff done sooner than later and so that would

be the only thing so I think it's a I think it's a positive project it hits two categories and it's not really um an astronomical amount of money $300,000 out of 5.5 million dollar project uh where they're putting money into this and the other element to this that I also think is critical um and I asked this of another candidate is as of right now um they have not gone for federal

funding for this or they have also not gone for Tiff funding which is tax um funding which basically uh the way that the last project was done it was a 10-year Tiff they didn't pay 80 % of the taxes over 5 years and then the last 5 years it's a u 20% they pay the taxes to it they haven't gone for any of those types of fundings and so it looks to me as uh I

like public private Partnerships and you know they're putting they have skin in the game on this particular project and it does have that element of um helping the the the storefronts and putting in buildings and stuff like that so it's not just going to be housing housing it's going to be housing and then they're going to generate people coming downtown and hopefully either restaurants retail whatever the space

might be but um I think that's my my caveat is the time frame Associated where the public sees this investment okay anybody uh yeah researching the Builder uh he uh he's in the real estate development business and uh I guess he performed extensive uh work and uh uh in rehabbing apartments I guess in the New Bedford area and he is local he has a local business here in the city uh and

and I concur he's going to be restoring buildings that are kind of iconic for the Flint section they're they Classics so uh this project definitely uh is is a go for me I'm I'm in favor of it myself yeah yeah like affordable housing and I support very much not I question may may Appo her as Eno um can so I don't think we've received the confirmation of other funding secured yet to me that's

Paramount before any Grant award um I think we've been a little too kind in the past and it's uh not played in our favor in terms of taking people for their word for things and we start we need to start requiring supporting evidence especially when it's it was a question on the application that was listed as not available um so I I do think that's Paramount before um the next meeting for us to get those letters

from the banks about approved funding already um I agree that this is a very important project for revitalizing the Flint um I am in favor of uh splitting the funding in both categories community housing and historic preservation um I think uh as I kind of mentioned during the last meeting uh that it would be highly beneficial to make a requirement of the elimination of the billboard on

top of the structure and then have um the design the design uh required approval by the historic commission before any work actually begins um typically uh these are paired these kinds of projects are paired with tax credits and that process is kind of um what we hold to for the Secretary of interior standards but since they're currently not pursuing any tax credits I think it'd be very very important to

make sure that the grant award is designed is conditional upon design approval by uh the historical commission okay Cindy can you send an email to uh ala tomorrow okay maybe actually followed up with every project already what they need to give us okay good good that way uh at least we reached out and look for the right then the next one is uh 1616 uh Pleasant Street uh again historic housing um

looking for 300,000 3.5 uh investment uh 12 units four affordable same letters of recommendation uh like I say I think this is a good we went for years without having any projects in the uh the Flint and they always accuse us of overlooking them but no one's ever put projects before us uh we don't come up with the projects you have to give them to us and uh so this with the revitalization of

the Flint going on I think it's a it's a good opportunity for us to be there uh with the everybody else helping Revitalize it so we'll start with any if you guys have any questions any input um I think it's similar to the the first project right and a lot of the same points will probably be made on on this this project that one we just talked about and I think for me it goes

back to the what we talked about before we started talking about the projects I think that these are projects that you will see complete um there's a significant investment that the developer is making they have timelines and they want to see return on their investment so to me the to Michael's point with the private um public partnership I think those are the ones that you see move along a little quicker

um so I agree that I I would be in favor of both of these projects with the caveats you know that Alex mentioned with about the billboard on the other building and we'd probably want to see make sure they have some type of outside funding to on this one as well proof of the investment may I may I ask a question I I i' I've sat on other boards like this and before they even can come

to the table um they have to show you your their Finance like literally it's it's a and again as I mentioned before a lot of these are limited Li ability um corporations and so they're a standalone but the reality of it is they show where they have the funding source for that and so it's like yeah we're committed to this and so there are other applicants in here who who put up a lot of money uh

to initiate these projects and they are looking for the extra from uh the CPA uh from the CPC for the CPA funding for this but again um historically in the past you've granted projects um have has that been uh the caveat that we want to see your funds make sure you have it because we we have seen them and we haven't seen some okay and have you been burnt by any of them that you haven't

seen no okay well before my time so I can't really speak one of the things that uh was mentioned when we interviewed was that um we should hold the payments until significant progress is shown on that property right so payments will not be released until a significant portion of the project is completed and there some you know some sizable signs of of work constructed there so that could be

written right in to protect us agreement I mean the thing that you have to be cognizant of is that once you start doing a project like this you start with demo and you're kind of trying to make sure um you know put the Band-Aid on the on the uh on the cut scenarios don't typically work so if they start doing the roof which is usually a significant amount of work they get halfway through

that and the only funding they have is from us and not their own sources you're you're up the creek without a paddle I think we're all in favor of getting making sure that that some he's investing some money of his own in this project that's what we're all saying yeah yeah well I think he's starting to are we going to be able that's what I'm asking you I think it's even further than that it's further than

that it's not it's not so much that he doesn't have it it's the confirmation that he has it yeah we just want a letter from the bank stating that he has funds available for the project that it's real yeah for the and the other thing too is a quick question do you if they for instance default on a project of this nature is there any language where okay you've got to pay this money

back or okay so as long as we have protection on this because I I would hate to see again we ripped the roof off we don't have any money now that building is going to fall apart and we're we're now looking at emergency fund or something of that nature so but hence the significant progress of the project before these monies are allocated uh you know secures us which means that he's raised some money and

spend it mhm and that the project is significantly completed before we make the payments he's not looking for the bulk of the money from us he's his own financing Rich to your to your point just so I understand clearly as well um the the stipulations of how projects receive money can be dictated per the project there is not there's not a standard way that they receive money correct there's not a standard way that

projects are reimbursed when they are approved for the money that they're granted does that make sense that in that question in other words we can stipulate it can't spend the money before we uh get approval from the city council Fair say when uh we did the Nate building right uh he did the whole building and saved the elevator for last which we paid but now say on some of

this uh say we do the uh uh Pleasant Street and we fund windows we might not be able to that might not be the last we might have to put our funds in halfway through whatever but if that's what we decide to fund when the contractor puts the windows in that's when we're going to have to pay so let me refine the question a little further is it expected that a contractor

would pay first and then we replenish or reimburse him for that invoice or the invoice comes in they put nothing in we are the vendor or the supplier of payment yeah we don't reimburse we don't reimburse okay and that's standard across all projects but that's sounds a little to reimburse so so typically um so you they can't start the work that they requesting funding for until the city council makes approval okay so

that's start one um Sandy can come up and explain but I just wanted to say uh part of our process and you'll learn this as a new member um is each when we assign uh like Liaisons to each project those are the people who go and inspect and verify the work and they sign they sign off on those specific funding requests like sometimes it's broken up multiple invoices they usually provide

the the backup the invoices sometimes that work is already been done you know sometimes um they need procurement of materials to start it you know so it changes on a Case by case basis but there's always a CPC member who has to sign off on the funds before they're released and that's usually tied to a visual inspection of the property yeah and that would satisfy Rich's note essentially okay and then Sandy if you

want to liate so yeah so what's going to happen is obviously tonight's your deliberation next two weeks you're going to vote once you vote I'm going to um get the letter to the auditor to draft an appropriation order that appropriation order is going to go to the mayor the mayor is going to send it down to the city council president to put it on their agenda to vote for the projects that you're recommending you're

not voting to approve the you're voting to recommend these projects to the city council the city council has the final decision on the vote they can vote for the all of them or they can vote that they may not want one or two of the projects that you recommended um once they do that I immediately draft the award agreements they have to get signed by Corporation councel the mayor the CPC

committee the project uh applicant um then requisitions have to be set up in the system once the requisition goes in we get a purchase order for that project perfect okay I take care of the private project projects I don't take care of the city projects the only way something it's it's strictly reimbursed so when the project does the work like Alex said the CPC member that's assigned to that

project goes looks at that invoice makes sure that the work was in the agreement and it meets Secretary of Standards when I get that invoice and the paperwork that you signed off on it the project signed off on it an architect whoever is managing that Pro then I will do a bill schedule to pay that invoice got it it's different with the city so whoever's assigned to City projects you're going

to have to work closely with the purchasing department because when they go out to bid you're going to want to know when those projects are going out to bid when they're going to open those bids you want to be there when they open those bids and you're going to want to watch those invoices that they're paying exactly what you voted to recommend to pay for interesting okay okay y so

that's helpful does that answer your questions definitely okay there is there is good scrutiny and most projects are substantially completed or completed before payments are awarded that's good y before it's signed off okay the one other caveat because I'm Alex is training me on this now because he's a guru in masonry work um but they might go in for a project and they we could only allocate so much money

and so um they do as much work as possible and so their architect and structural engineer reviews it with us and said this is how much we could do for this amount of money and we're stopping and so yeah or yeah and they'll just stop the project and maybe look for funding a different Source later on so just one car we' bought was the number of people have already expressed report support

for these two first things um just we don't quite know the total and we don't quite know the total of the other things we're going to approve and that all has to fit together and that's when you're you're putting uh your list together how you want to vote um you're going to you know almost like price it out you're going to put say say it's a one

you put 300 or say it's a a one and you only want to do 200 you got to add that up in the housing's got to be the 180 plus the 249 uh so right this for for me this is going to be extremely confusing for the first run through you just yeah thanks thank you for your explanation and now I'll and I'll I won't remember it in two weeks

okay as we're going on we'll we'll keep everybody a bre where the money is what we have left I don't want to mean a l discussion and it's important to add that even the numbers that you you know kind of budget for the projects you prefer that could change day of our voting because you know some people might disagree and we might have to kind of meet in the middle that's that's so

so it'll it'll be I mean yeah it'll be a game of math that day that's what Sandy was alluding to with us keeping track of the numbers as we kind of go we'll be listening to you another experience members like I say little horse trading when you go to voting you know you can take swap you know I've done that you might like the whole thing but you might

have to settle for half of it you know Y and then before we move on I just for for 166 and 1622 served of the school committee and just just before we move on from this project I just re reiterate the same thing that I think we need proof of funding before we award um and I would also make uh design the condition of design approval of the historical commission okay let's roll all right can

I can I just say something uhuh so can I just say something go ahead in the past in the past we've never asked them to provide proof of funding um on any of the projects we've we've funded projects and we've had questions but we've never asked them before to provide proof of funding so I mean is that something that we really want it's a question in the time like it's a question in the it's a question

in the application and just because we haven't done it in the past doesn't mean we shouldn't have been doing it or do it in the future I mean if you anyone who applies anyone who applies to other grants it's a typical question that you have to prove and if it's not even provided you're usually disqualified immediately I think we're very lenient with the amount of errors and missing information

we get in these applications as it is and I think it's for the benefit of the community to make sure we have supporting evidence and not just taking people on their word I agree anything else Chris no I just uh I don't know I I just feel kind of like in the middle of everything can you can we now say oh by the way we're going to hold you to this

and you know certain people have never been held to that and I don't know normally when we when we make these decisions it's before everything happens not in the middle of the the debating I also believe this has been a question of the application for a number of years already yeah I think he said if I remember correctly I think he said he already has secured it so it's probably

for this particular one just a matter of him providing that letter that's it's a very simple it's a very simple thing to prove if you have it but I think think we should also maybe take into consideration if there are other projects and there isn't already be they're not going to get underwritten for a loan within the next week so if they haven't already applied or don't have any I don't know if it's if it

hasn't been historically something that this qualifies some of the bigger projects have come in they have had uh proof of where the money's coming from we got proof for one of the other private projects this round it has been we don't necessarily bring it up you know I guess we should let the public know that they do have the funds well I think we should if it's something that you're going to now hold everybody to

then you have to hold everybody to the same standard and everybody's going to have to but we do this is uh Mike and just to kind of reiterate what you're you're speaking of working with major developers you have to go and do a construction loan on this and you need to show your assets associated with it and if you can get the funding for like infrastructure or historical or housing or whatever might be that you could

stand Al alone on that and so that's what the bank's going to give you construction loan on this and if you're not verifying that then they could be taking $300,000 trying to do whatever they can and coming back every year saying we can't finish a project so it's in the it's in the application here I looked at it I didn't see any real definitive breakdown of a construction loan because

that's what it's going to be it's a little different from a private sector than it is from a public sector a a public or a non-for-profit uh sector will be basically okay what's your organization do you have funds on there do you have a source of income to for your organization to if if they're going to find fund some of this or if they're going to just go all from CPA funding uh

sources to this so that's that's common construction that's common development and so from what he spoke about on these two projects they said they had those I haven't seen them I don't know if anybody else has seen them but as a caveat to awarding any projects you want to see those funds that they have that especially not as the big company but as the LLC associated with that particular

project yeah and for a project of this size as the member McDonald said uh it should have been secured already so it shouldn't be it shouldn't be an issue of you know starting the application process within this week yeah okay where is it in the application cuz I'm looking and I don't it's like it's like question number eight other funding right after the cost I believe the cost breakdown

yeah so additional funding information yes they listed is not available I asked about it when they were here was there and I believe it I mean it's been on there a couple years since I've been on the committee I know yeah it's been on there since day one qu question 10B does ask how will it be funded owner funded is the answer yeah um and then but during his the the hearing he said

there was bank loans as well that he could provide letters for yeah the question is is it a good idea or yes or no just generally speaking I oh yeah it's a good idea it's a good idea I I think you know to to to the point I think we're getting to while it may not have happened in the past the what ought to be questioned is we should start practicing a better standard enforcement

as well and then execution on it correct yeah which is I think a good standard the question I'll have which we'll probably get to another projects I go ahead sorry yep go ahead Kristen oh no then I think maybe in the application it needs to be written out in even more detail because it says how will it be funded it doesn't say please provide copies of um loan uh grants or

anything like that it it just says how will it be funded and that's under mainten like 10B you're saying is under maintenance I'm still not seeing where it says Please provide copies of Bank information on fing doesn't say that language in particular but I did ask that question of this applicant um weeks before the his appearance we need to add that next time that's that's probably

that's probably a fair middle ground right but I'm saying it we need to if if that's going to be a thing that we're going to absolutely hold them to then it needs to be in there in no uncertain terms because even me as a CPC member is not finding where like it's in certain terms of we expect to see your um your paperwork from a bank or from your funding I don't so that's that's my

point and that's fine that you've asked him and and he said all that but some of the other people don't have that and that's the truth of the matter is a little hard to say okay well we're not going to fund you now because you don't have this one in the past we've never made them show us proof of their loans or anything like that so so this this is I think sorry Kristen I'm reading

directly from the funding it's it's number seven here it says attach uh commitment letters uh from any organization provided uh additional funding and so it says na not not applicable and so as and it does say attached commitment letters already written in it so I don't really see the problem with I don't see a problem with us asking where his funds are coming from and secured because he is spending

a great deal of money and we just want to know and I'm sure he has it so well I don't want to I don't want to put my head on a chopping BL saying he has money know that we we'll be fine he needs to provide either a bank statement of what his assets are if he's privately funding it or he has a construction loan like you can't do any any development

project you can't do unless you have those and and if we're going to give you money whether it's federal state or local you have to have those things in place so I emailing the letter and if we get it we we're all set we have we have a responsibility as to the taxpayers to look after their money and make sure everything is done in good faith and perfect yeah I also might I understand

that but I think it needs to be clearer to people that we are now expecting to see this no matter what and if it's not there then they will not be funded that's what I'm saying I think it needs to be a lot more clear to be charitable especially because it hasn't happened in the past yeah to be charitable to your point member Aliva I I can't understand your your your your point here if if it

can be very clearly stipulated and I know you asked the question but if it could be in the application it does ask for the commitment okay fair enough and and maybe and maybe maybe that needs to question what this well fair enough but maybe we accepted the application without the full documentation so that's where we have gotten that in the past from yeah people this one we didn't so I

mean it is so we were being lenient yeah like I said the answer provided was not available and that wasn't the answer that we were told so I just want you know supporting evidence of the answer that we were told I mean no I it comes down to no matter how many people want these projects to succeed they have to be in the capability of success and that needs you know required other funding so if

that's there then the chances of this product succeeding is not going to so solely depend on a $300,000 Grant you know okay next one move on next one is the uh for bees I have to recuse myself as a member of the preservation soci so I I'm going to recuse myself but I do have a comment on this that before I leave um the again I'm going to uh recuse myself but uh one of the things

things that I have a question about and we need to discuss is because um there are three members here that are associated with this project or somehow uh feel there may be a conflict of interest the way that the numbering system comes out it gives it because we are walking away it gives it the best rating for the project for funding and now I'm I'm I'm again I like the project

I'm for the project it's reasonable but the reality of it is the reality of it is is that if we're three members walking away and it's automatically getting the highest ranking on funding um I I just think it's a little bit um uh disingenuous uh in the sense of um if the community is looking at this and I if I was somebody who applied didn't get any funding for my project which was

good but I have a conflict of interest with something else and they get the highest ranking uh automatically so I I my thing my concern is is that this does not look from the outside looking in um uh any type of um malice intent to this so no it just makes it rounds it out when we're voting that it it you can't vote for it so it's got to get a plus one so

it's at plus three because three people aren't voting so when we vote if you didn't vote on it it would get the lower scores so but you're but you're automatically putting it at the highest level you possibly can so for people out in the community and listening to this uh or it being recorded one is the best number you can put on there two is the middle and three is the lowest and so

because we're we are involved with this organization or we have done work with this organization uh we have to leave this leave this table but we're we're walking away with giving it a number one which is the top ranking so perhaps what we might want to do is put it a number two unless there's some legal legal um ramification to to doing this then I I would say that this potentially could

get challenged what I don't want to see is are CPA ever being questioned or challenged that's it I think we can come up with a weighted system question excuse me I've got to recuse myself because I'm a historic commissioner that's fine I um I wish you wouldn't um chairman BR can we can we um it's not a motion but can we accept the concern and um strategize on a way to wait the

system in scoring and see if that's acceptable yeah that's a good way to answer there there are weighted methods to doing this that is is Equitable to to meet you where you need to be a lot of a lot of people worked really hard to get CPA including myself yeah um and what I would want want what I don't want to ever see happen is this go away because somebody thinks it's

unjust and unfair and again everybody here is a volunteer everybody here has done volunteer work for other entities and so what I don't want to have somebody say is well why are they getting the highest ranking of funding possible funding if in the reality there's I think there's a I think there's a solution to it you're still going to have your votes to go you'll still have your three

ones so they're going to start out well you're already you've already taken a one and and and assigned it from me that's not that's not your one that gets a one because you can't vote for you still have three ones huh that's not one of your you don't lose a one there's nine projects my understanding is I have three ones three twos and three threes okay so my one is automatically given to this project and

again I'm not against the project I'm against the perception of that's C you've just how is that crazy you you you basically took three people system I don't like the system well we can talk about that afterwards I I I I don't disagree I think there's a flaw in the system and so we have to come up with a solution to do that so that we could so we could we can actually feel that

because if you let it's to be perceived if you left it blank it would even be a better if you you know you didn't vote on it I I don't disag I don't I don't disagree I should I should have no say yeah I feel I feel there's a conflict of of interest in this because I had done the plan for the first overlay District pro bono for this organization sitting

on their on their executive board many years ago and so I'm recruiting myself because I don't want people to think from the outside coming in you're just going to give them that money because there's three members on the board and you're automatically going to assign them a number one which is the best ranking that's it so somehow some way we just need to figure it out so it's fair it's

Equitable amongst all applicants and that's it all that's all I'm trying because I don't I don't want to see this getting ever questioned and losing such an a valuable a valuable asset to a Gateway City again CPA funding for a Gateway City we're the first ones and I don't want to ever see this this I don't want to ever lose this and so that's the only reason I I brought those questions

up well the scoring system we as a committee uh design that it's not a CPA doesn't come from okay state level or anything the committee decides how it's going to do its voting so we can bring that up later okay that's all that's all I'm saying all right thank you by the way I mean there's not probably too much on this that we're going to go over because it's I I think this is a truly

important issue I do I I don't disagree with for example I'll give you an example from the last month's meeting now I once helped conduct a service at St an's Church someplace in the 1970s do I have a conflict of interest I mean this um and I'm just you mentioned that quite a while ago you did this work it was pro bono that matters um I don't I tried to get Rick to stay here

is to discuss what his conflict is I don't know um the historical commission put the 40b form in so he's on the commission well I don't know if that's a conflict how about the school committee I mean yeah it just and so I think this needs further thought and some further discussion and I think it's a big one yeah again I think what you'll find out is when you're a volunteer on one thing

within the city you're a volunteer on multiple things in the city well I picked one yeah I didn't want to make up a new one yeah and again I my company I own my company I reclus myself from every project in Fall River everything that I do whether it's the parks the veterans memorials any of those types of things that we've done is been pro bono but I wouldn't go I I I would say if

we're going to use my expertise and and help do a open space or Recreation I would do that I would be more than happy in this particular case all I'm I'm not fighting about the project I'm just fighting about how we're doing the ranking systems that three people that should should should walk away because it could be seen or deemed as a conflict of interest are automatically put into

the number one ranking that's it so we just have to fix that having served as an El official mhm I can tell you that uh your standards are far higher than most of the elected officials that I served with um and I think that we need to I just think that you're that not you but we just need some more thought and some more discussion over this sure yeah

that's it y all right I'm going to leave now okay we finished before you get to stay close I mean it's a pretty cut and dry uh 40 BS uh I age I'm in favor of it two neighborhood block I mean uh it's going to I'm strongly in favor of it I don't know if I want to use a one well with the they're asking for 70,000 which is a a moderate number uh

for what it's going to uh provide for the City so I think it's a it's a good uh project like I said I don't think uh if you voted a three I think this is still going to get passed because the money is loow so and it is a needed uh thing so uh if you guys have any questions on it I mean the passing is not automatic for the ranking not necessarily I mean uh I

mean when we do our ranking we can stop at any point at funding uh but we could take this out of line because say we have that money available we could fund it I mean so it's it's John yes John can I offer something sure so even if we had given it ones in as sort of like a placeholder so we've given it ones because of the three people that are recusing themselves mhm

when it comes up for a vote those three people are not going to be there to vote so it's the rest of the people that are left that are going to vote on it there's still the possibility that even though it had ones and it comes higher up as far as voting if people don't support the project it can still get voted down so depending you know even if

it does fall higher up on the level of okay this is now we've we've automatically given it one so we have to to discuss it it doesn't mean it's a guaranteed approval because the people that are left may not have put it as ones and they may not want it yeah I mean nothing's ever guaranteed it'll be approved but I mean it's it's right small dollar amount so I think

that's no I know but my my point being I know everybody's really and I I fully understand the the whole why give it a one because it gives it an unfair Advantage but it doesn't technically given an unfair Advantage because we still have to vote on whether or not we want the project to go through and if there's if all the people that are left that are voting on it don't want that

particular project to go through then it's it's going to get voted down and it's not going to get funded anyway yeah there there's a weighted system we can use I I it can be implemented correctly so we can talk about that out offline so to speak the only question I had chairman Brandon maybe Sandy is for you you noted in the follow-up email about the surveys and I think we're

waiting on that I just want to see what oh it is in the packet Perfect all right I just wanted to see the survey see what is being communicated to the community um otherwise I think this is a this is a perfectly fine project on the numbers I mean they just we just went through the uh open space Recreation uh for the city uh we have to do the plan every I think 10 years or

five years uh we only got out of the whole city 500 and some odd responses back they were I think well I don't know if this is the same but they had mentioned that was a mailer that was a mailer that was online it was was online as well did open uh meetings throughout the city okay okay he tried a lot no fair enough yeah I got you I think I think my only hesitation

with it is just um the community feedback and just making sure people understand what it means for their property that they may have own um and I think just in my dayto day I work in the insurance industry and I know that there's you know challenges with securing insurance when you own a historic property there's part of the conversation is increased costs of construction to match the historic

property so I think that while I agree it's it's great um it's a good thing I think there are some considerations that give me a little bit of pause just because of you can't go get the most affordable siding from Home Depot you have to make sure that the siding you know matches and and maybe the historic they could shed a little bit more light on it and I don't know how lenient they

are I think some of it might just be have to do with colors and stuff any houses in that block half siding so those would be but that's kind of the point right so if as those I think that's why they want to keep it so if you were going to buy in that area you would know the deed restriction is on that house yeah that you would have to keep

it which I I understand I guess it's more so if you've owned the house and it wasn't there and now it's there are you putting that person in a bind and I don't know I think most people understand when they're buying a historic property um whether or not it's on a a you know a database you should never assume though you should assume that they you know if it's was wasn't

done and it's in the backyard they're not going to you know it's no big deal um uh but moving forward with people buying houses they would have to stay to store I agree with your point though it's just the cost of construction sometimes you're backing the person into a corner is my only and I never I never lay it at the altar of like definitely these people who definitely know what

they're getting themselves into in a sense like they definitely know that you know the the alterations are going to have to stay the way that the historical preservation committee expects it right that it's not always obvious that people understand these things so I agree I agree with you and I'm not saying that the historic uh commission is going to put up roadblocks or make their life

more difficult I'm just saying they might say yeah sure that's no problem that's great I know until something happens and now oh it's going to cost me how much that's so so in other words the way I way I would envision your scenario it's like when you're voting right on the questions and it's like a vote towards Yes means this a vote towards no means this when you're voting for yes in

in you know making your District historical this is what you're agreeing to yeah and if that's in the and I so I have to read the survey I would like to just see if that's like I haven't seen the question so I can't I'll figure that out let's move on but I have some other thoughts on this yeah I I I thought I looked for it well I wish those guys

would I want to do it when they well then you can do it next well they're going to be out next week on it anyway so um yeah the issue is that they the we required to have I'll do it now required to have a representative from or allowed or whatever the thing is to have a member of the historic commission here just as we have a member of the planning board somebody appointed by the mayor

the city council blah blah so forth I can't go all of them wait a minute obviously anybody who's on the historical commission that's Rick is going to be involved in historical stuff yeah so you can't they put this project in front of us that's why he had to leave okay but so like any other thing that's historic he doesn't have to leave because he doesn't have personal involvement in

it okay maybe I see your point though Jim I think if the I think it's probably worth discussion if the uh conflict is discussed and everybody understands is it okay for them to vote okay is that that's what I think that's what I think that's kind of and I I tend to agree with you the conflict isn't hidden sorry not the believer the point and I know that this is not the largest bucket of

funds we have I just want to clarify something chairman brand so I'm looking I am not looking at the survey um can we help alter the survey that they've already created as a stipulation to receiving funds well we can't alter the survey because it's already went out oh it's already been out we can uh yeah cuz fair enough no no it's it's good you made my point we can put it in a uh deed

restriction if there's something in there that you don't think should be uh I'm just not in love with the wording of the questions they're like leading questions if this was in a court of law they these would be objected immediately but but again fair enough it's it's fine I I understand they we're all doing our best survey is done yeah and just a comment from social worker it's not a very reliable

given its base which is not edited or surveyed in any way okay all right a mail in or please call chairman BR sorry one more question I apologize how many of these have gone through in the past um for CPC funding form B's we only did one just one okay the North End we did okay how long ago was that uh that was uh two years ago we did okay and everything went smoothly

yeah okay no issues there well there there was no restriction that was just uh we did to form Beast because they'd never been done down there so we didn't know what was historic what was there what they did was they looked at the property and said what was there and got it we know the history of the north end now got it that makes sense cool thank you look up guys you want to come back

in yo

fy22 thank you we solved all the world's challenges while you were out all righty wonderful next we're moving on to the dery block uh dery that's the bank that's your bank yeah dery B uh they're under stor preservation this one's uh they're looking for 540 5481 investing 8.7 um they got the letters from ma well they got credits from Mass historic credit National Park the Mass Department

funding um letter from the Historic Society um

my my comments to this would be I think they did um very similar to what we talked about the other development projects this is though strictly historical um they actually provided the some of the financial resources to this they gave us uh how they're going through um a federal historical component to this they're looking at um they've secured a 10-year Tiff on this one which basically states that

taxpayers um the developer for the first 5 years will not pay 80% of taxes they'll only pay 20% Then the next five years they will pay 20% taxes 10year Tiff to this again I think it's a good project I think the the caveat to this one it doesn't address any of the affordable housing on this project and it doesn't a it doesn't um address any of the streetcape um revitalization it's really a housing project but

um and then the other thing is just the amount associated with it the I believe it's for Windows um 5 48,000 uh $11 uh $111 um but I do think it's a good project I do think um components of it uh will help Revitalize the city if that's I know it's historical but um one of the caveats of not doing um affordable housing on there is that we have a a large number of affordable

housing in and around our downtown area and bringing in market rate housing will help with the revitalizations of restaurants retail activities in the downtown area uh it's just um a lot of money considering we're at $1.28 s million well that would uh We've did uh the dery tech building we've invested in the Armory that would kind of finish this block off as like really vitalizing that area on the 548 this one would

probably be one of those uh projects where we kick it around two to 300,000 would be probably an ear Mark we'd be looking for uh the 548 yes that is out of the you know we don't have the funds for that so when you're looking at two to three probably a point where it fall if it do fall on your count you know your marks but uh this would not be like

I would I couldn't see it we'd be knocking a lot of projects out if we did the full amount so yeah and I concure with both of you on this and to the point uh we could also look at matching what we're doing on or what's being requested of the Flint windows and the the amounts of monies are really to sort of offset the additional cost of getting a historic window rather than throwing

in a standard window and that's where this helps these These funds that we have help put in that extra few dollars that's required of the these windows to to keep the historic nature of the building and and I agree also it's it that block is very significant to the city and with all of this 79 construction the whole area is going to get uh uh uh brought back up to a more

lively status yeah yeah and I I I like the project uh I don't know what the vote's going to be but I like the project connects to downtown to the Waterfront you know uh Chris any nope good Alex uh yeah so this is a project under the historic preservation category not housing but um so I think a fair way to kind of Rectify the number of funds requested and versus

awarded um this is the quote for you know the historically accurate uh replacement windows I had asked um if they had any quotes for you know non-historic Windows because I think a good Fair number to kind of Base our our decision off of would be you know the difference of the cost of the historic Windows versus the standard because really what they're asking for is money to bring it up to you know historic uh

standards for the Secretary of interior standards um I we didn't get that number but like just you could kind of do some research about how much you know 132 Windows would cost and then just kind of Rectify that I think this was just for the block windows not all the windows in the building I actually did a count I wanted to find out I know working on other historical projects and either the Salem OR Boston

uh they have a caveat to those now it doesn't get the federal funding to it but so for instance like in Salem anything that's seen from the public way have to be historically accurate anything in the back of the house so uh I had the break down of what the windows are so some of these windows Overlook the library and some of them are in the back portion of the building looking

towards the water you can still see it but it's not like it's the sidewalk so uh the east side in the south side of this building uh would have to be I think historically accurate and I they're roughly I want to say $5,500 a window give or take uh on an average cost um so again if they're looking to get Federal funding for it then they have to do them all um but maybe this is

one of those scenarios where the first phase of this is the the the streets the sides that are public um public ways and so um but that's how it's done in some some areas uh wow thank you oh you're welcome I would just add that um usually uh what we kind of go for is not necessarily the windows that are on the public ways but it's visible by the public visible from a public way so like

even even the ones that are in the back and side they're visible from public ways so one could argue that you know they're visible from the public ways still yeah yeah so if we when it would come down to uh put into the agreement we might say the what would that be the uh North Side south and east yeah the South and the east side yeah we would we determin where our Windows would go and

uh that's where the money be used so yeah yeah again I'm all support for the project what it does for the Redevelopment of that particular block that has seen quite a few um Innovations Purchase Street and such notot and so um it's just a lot of money for one project so yeah that's it questions guys no all right well just a comment Mr the reason I think the reason that affordable housing is that there is

there's 28 units and $8 million he's probably going to put out of his pocket uh five to six million it's just to make the how do you make that payment was money I was going to say money but if you don't have the it just cuts into also political Outlook M essentially the closing statement of Mr Fiola was we said this Sumer said isn't doing anything M so that's why we don't have affordable

housing he said it I didn't well it was a little it was a little more nuance wants than that he mentioned that there needs to be a right mixture of affordable housing and regular priced housing that that's all opinion though no no no fair enough and I'm not saying that's wrong he said he didn't want it he didn't want a mixture it's it's it's under the historic preservation category

too so I mean they're not asking for community housing funds so it's not really our prerogative I'm just telling you I told I I do Urban Design and development all over the world and and and the problem we have with our downtown areas we put a an enormous amount of um uh elderly low-income housing in our downtown district and so what's tough about the businesses in and around the downtown area is that you don't have

ancillary funds associated with keeping them up and running and so introducing market rate housing to the downtown area will balance that off and so we do have um it just came out uh yesterday or today um you know we have our NBTA funding for housing associated with Transit what we're supposed to do for affordable housing and housing and all of that type of scenario uh as a city we're above and beyond that and I know

people are in a crisis um prices are going through the roof and such notot but uh you need to have some of that balance in there so and again he's not asking for housing of this he's asking for historical it's a large amount and like the project I just we have to come up with a number that makes this project viable and work and so but you're you're right everything comes down to an

equation there's so many apartment units it has to go out this much money this is what they need to to be profitable to do a project of this nature and or they don't do it and they just move on to the next project raise the price of the other apartment slightly let's yeah let's go yeah well they're under historic uh okay next is uh the John Coughlin School uh they're looking for

225 I know this has a lot of uh things we'd want to put into an agreement if we did uh decide to uh move on this project I mean they have done some work which I uh appla them because I mean it was out of his pocket uh the roof was gone it it was burnt uh he put the roof on I know the gutters don't match and a couple

other things and windows uh but um if we were to do this one we'd have to put where he'd have to be more involved with the historic commission before he did any work and then bringing what he's done to save the building to Historic standards which we can do uh he just has to take the gutters down we can't pay for the demo but then we can pay to put

new ones up uh so if you were like to preserve historic buildings this is one we can do or we can kick it down the street uh so I'm going to leave it up to you guys um how we want to word this have we seen any build have you seen any buildings like this in the past where it has tipped the scale and the modifications to the building don't match historical records because I you

know talking to Rick and I I understand what he was saying before the meeting as far as it's it's not up to the historical code that it should be at this point in time so to then apply for money underneath that criteria does that make sense you know and then is it kind of backwards to then say you have to undo the things that you did which we all commend them putting their own money

in to keep the building standing but I I guess uh I'm just wrestling with the idea of can you making make it can it go from historic to not historic and then back to Historic well it's still listed as historic yeah I mean he put his own money in to save the building so now it's sitting there dude you know it's all how you look at it I mean I plot

them for saving it now do we want to help save it or do we want to bypass on it I just have a few comments to this this is a perfect example of the private sector where you have to look for the funding and then you look at the P you look at the non for-profit and this is a nonprofit organization typically non-for-profits don't have a major cast stream dream coming in associated with their

organization um again you know I did the same exercise with all of the schools trying to find a developer uh with the preservation society and the reality of it is if you let it continue to deteriorate it's going to get to a point where there's no return and so usually a lot of these buildings you have stuff that you never see for instance abatement you have asbest uh you have

lead paint you have all of these uh knob and tube wiring nothing is up to code and so um the other thing too is that when you look at for one of these non for-profit organizations is that do they have some type of uh Revenue stream or funding to this and so they are trying to do that and so again they're having their their another one of their dinner

pork uh roast or whatever it might be in in a couple of weeks but they have to have that in another facility what they're asking for for money on this particular project has nothing to do with the outside what they've done so far to the outside is basically keep it from any uh further deterioration now if they're going to go for funds for the outside of the building I think again Rich you you're

absolutely right they need to find uh they need to uh meet the protocol of historical preservations associated with that um but this in particular case they're just looking for um fire suppression so they can do more events there and do more fundraising and become more of a a a sustainable organization and so when they come to this you know this was a this in in the other group The SNS they've done a lot of their own

upfront cost associated with this and the other thing that's a big caveat to this this has a huge impact on public U perception and its intervention with the public unlike the other two private ones you know we're not unless we're buying something from the stores or living in there it's just it's really eye candy it's really trying to revitalize an urban setting from the outside from the

in this particular case it works as a food pantry um it's really kind of the Hub of that neighborhood it's a historical building it's a beautiful building that building will never be built like that ever again um with the funding and the labor and all of the the trades that are are gone now um so think of it that way we're asking for historical because of the fire suppression but again going forward on

anything else that they need to do it based on the historical commission's uh recommendations or guidelines and again I think they've done some things in there just to stabilize the building but yeah we don't need another b a building going getting deteriorated because it hasn't been so commend them for getting it where it was it was just my question was more of M it's it it doesn't meet

the historical criteria that you would typically see now so does it that's not necessarily true because they what we John just mentioned um I I think at which project it was they waited for the elevator to make it 8 accessible that would be an example of okay so now I've got to make a code where I can get people in here and again this might be another one of those projects they come

back and say we want to do the windows okay great and at least you've seen the initiative of them fundraising and putting money together out of their own pocket and also out of the organization park it and so um you know but that's why that kind of falls into that caveat getting it up to code so okay and with that I support that any other Alex um so uh I believe like one

of our requirements for a property being uh in the historic preservation category is it being on forers list of significant structures which I believe it still is so it would technically you know by that criteria still was a historic and then up to uh Council uh Committee Member McDonald's question about can you like you know have a historic building kind of modernize it and then take it back there are

typically two Avenues of historic preservation uh Rehabilitation and then restoration uh Rehabilitation is you know uh repairs and and preservation um of what is there and restoration is bringing something back to what it once was um so similar to how we had the discussion when they appeared before us um I think think uh a grant award could be contingent on ratification of a capital Improvement plan that meets

Secretary of interior standards and is you know okayed by the historical commission um I think that's a possibility uh that we could pursue um

yeah uh I'm listening to all of the comments and uh I I I will say that the building is worth saving I I agree uh they should be commended for the work that they're doing to restore the building they're modernizing the building historically uh buildings remain on the national register when they're demolished because there's no one the Professional Organization has to go out and look at that property and say oh the

building's no longer here we're going to take it off the national register and it costs money so that the state doesn't do that it has to be some private concern to do do that uh so that being said the the the work that was done on the building much of the work that was done to get rid of the historic significance of the building was not to preserve the building it was just changed a lot of

the aluminum siding that was put on etc etc uh I'm not opposed to preserving this I'm not opposed to giving them some funding to hopefully generate some come to improve the facility and help restore the building but as Alex just mentioned and as we informed the group when they were here Thursday uh we want to see some sort of a uh business plan developed uh we were told we would have

something this evening and nothing has come forward at this point uh but I think if we do decide that we should allocate funding uh to work towards the pro this Pro ress then we definitely have to in my opinion stipulate that ABC is going to be accomplished and that they in the eight and a half years that they've had this building they have not visited the historic commission to ask for advice or

suggestions and there was there's so much money there not now but there was so much money available to them for restoration of that building that they igned completely uh unfortunately for them they they and that money's gone that's never to be recuperated uh and and that was a Mr Fiola uh made that statement himself during Thursday's meeting so uh I guess this is just you know the cat chasing its tail right now

uh but uh I I I would say that if we I'm one person the the other eight votes go in here and it's to to Let's sustain this building and let's award the funding I would suggest that we put in some parameters by which the next move on the exterior of the building it would have to be evaluated and and it it doesn't mean come back to the CPC to get the money that's that's

not the idea of the CPC they should be restoring what damage was done on their own somehow and develop a game plan plan to do that we shouldn't be supporting that endeavor M okay yeah but it does have to be strict uh you know in in the agreement restriction um I me absolutely absolutely like he said he didn't know about the historic commission and I believe he was a hardworking guy you know he doesn't uh

know the historic commission this or that you know he's you know but uh I do think we can if we could come to some kind of you know understanding and and try and help save the building it would be worthwhile I mean if we can't we can't but if we can put in where I think he needs to be whatever he does outside has to be go in front of the historic

commission before any work is done you know that is a is a must you know I because we don't want them to change Windows out again and be the wrong ones I I I agree with what you're saying I I just think the caveat should be is um because this is an inter inter interior uh type of renovation or project anything outside of the building has to go in front of the historical commission

I'm all I'm all for what you're saying I really am and and I and it's a historical component to this but you're right you know it's the court in front the the cart in front of the horse scenario um it would much been he he would have been much better off um getting the funds and doing this right at the beginning um but I just think he just didn't know about it or had that

happen new and again Ken's extremely educated in the process here so he knows how to um get through this process and what's realistic and what's not the question I guess the other question I have is the Derpy tech building like when you go and do a building like this I'm going think I'm um my understanding is the Federal Regulation component of it you've got to keep a lot of the same

stuff inside of the interior of a building the same but the reality of it is when you start going about taking a building like the dery tech building and putting into housing it's a different animal like you just can't there are certain things that have to be changed to that so I don't know whether the dery tech building got Federal funding or not or if it's Federal reserv but under the

uh uh they did they got tax credits the Lincoln School the the lockers have to remain in hallway the blackboards have to remain in the classroom so when they were designing it they include you know how do you how do you keep a Blackboard in your living room what do you do to make it you know sure but those things have to like the broom cloth everything had to stay the same the only thing they

could change was they had to put an elevator in so the back staircase went but uh yeah they can uh and and again it's up to the developer to figure out when you do the math with getting the federal tax credits to that whether it makes sense or not and either they go for it and they said yeah we'll incorporate those elements into it and I and I like that like again I think those

are great but the um I I think in our particular case I I think the other thing too is that we have to look at is when we fund these projects are they eventually going to be sustainable are they going to be able to stand on their own the whole reason for CPA grant money especially with historical is okay I can go replace these with 130 vinyl windows and I don't need your money all right

but you want me to keep it historical well it's going to cost me x amount more money are you willing to put in some money to do that and so and I think on the outside and it's just my opinion anything that's seen from the public side or or used by the public Community is a good project and again I think we have to hold their feet uh to the fire

and say any exterior um modifications to the project will be subject to review by the historical commission and and if they're not willing to do that then they don't get the funds yep you know okay so so all set on that project all right let's move on to uh the nightow this is historic um a lot of uh different things going through on this one I mean in a sense it has the

Nostalgia I mean it is on the historic register uh but um it is a business uh the one thing uh I looked at it was um if we just did a little bit of money we put a deed restriction on it it doesn't leave the Flint doesn't leave that spot um that might be something we want to look at uh I know Chris isn't feeling well her uh she was going to say uh she

wanted a little more investment like maybe the handicap bathroom um thinking that if say that she was not Chris do you want me to keep going or you can you talk oh no I can I can I could talk okay go ahead no I just um I mean as far as funding it all it's it's a very large amount of money um but I think there seems to be a lot of public

interest in this particular project um I know that there was some things written about it online there were lot of people that seem to be really supportive of it it's part of what I see is the Flint revitalization um it's an iconic structure in the city and unfortunately we keep losing a lot of our iconic structures but the amount of money that they're asking is is just a lot and from

what I remember when um when they were talking about it in the first place and he was asked why he didn't do anything on his own known about it the um he said that they had gone before the building inspector and the hurdle they had was they needed to have a handicap accessible bathroom and he couldn't afford that and that was what came came across as the hurdle that preventing prevented him from putting more into the

project itself so I thought if we funded the handicap bathroom part of it and got him just over that hurdle um but John and I were looking in the packet and there isn't anything where they have the breakdown of all the different things and what they cost the bathroom part is not there another thing is though if they need a handicapped bathroom they don't have handicap accessible getting in do

they they need a ramp too yeah so you need stairs yeah if you have a bathroom how can you get into order I know the ramp I know the ramp is on there the ramp is in the list of what they were looking for but the bathroom part's not yeah I'm not an expert in Eda compliance but it doesn't always necessarily have to be um people in wheelchairs specifically to be 88 compliant for a bathroom specifically

so yeah that's what that's what the once you I think it I think it was both because I know the um even the Art Association had to be compliant with a ramp and it would make sense right yeah so the the one thing that I would say about the project um it's similar to um the St John's building uh in the sense um it seems to me I think

these are all good points like one uh to to steal Alex's point from before I'd like to see funding from this because uh the proportions of private sector uh funds to public sector funds are pretty much 50% a little bit more um to see that that they have the funds to do this project and make sure it goes forward two they actually asked us to take out like the signage the neon signs it was a

at at a cost of about $49,000 so ultimately I think they're trying to get this thing leased out and operational so you need to bring everything up to code to make it operational a diner but I would put in the caveats on this and again this is kind of a big Urban uh movement these diners and basically they're becoming they'll take historical ones and move them all over the country and

just to have them as a iconic element to it I would put some caveats to this is that uh it seems to me uh he's trying to improve that area well if he goes and up and moves that or sells it to the best bidder you know um we're all out of luck so we would have to have some type of stipulations if he's going to get funds

but I think at the end of the day he needs to get it up and operational more than anything else instead of just the Aesthetics and two um which is fine and that's great if create a good business there get some attraction and then help develop the his other parts of his property um but I don't want to have to I don't want to do this project and just have him turn around and move it

somewhere or sell it somewhere else or uh go to the highest bidder um I would make sure that there was caveat to that that this needs to stay here uh we can maybe fund enough to make it operational and then move on from that and so but you know the funding sources I would want to see and two that the operations associated with it and that it's not going to be sold as an asset to

somewhere else I would put it in a deed restriction that it stays there because the night out to me is the Flint it's not the the North End uh that's where it should be and that's where the restriction right it's the Flint and uh our money will come in after because I don't believe we're in the restaurant business of rehabbing a restaurant he needs to have it open occupied then whatever's left we can come in with

whatever we decide to be the last component might be the Neons yeah you know but I'd like to see an investment on his part getting it up and running then we're investing something in a St that is up and running it is a diner yeah right now it's not a diner yeah he has skin in the game and we know that he has skin in the game and I agree with

what you're saying like he doesn't want to operate it he wants to maybe lease it to somebody else well make it a dino then and then if we can give you some more funds to kind of improve the aesthetic on the outside of it then so be it but not just making bringing it up to code that's that's what you're doing you're bringing it up to code ADA compliance uh like even the portion that

they were swipping out switching out the NE $49,000 for the neon signs for the mechanical and you're just making it operational at that point and so um that's kind of where I I would say but I think it's a good project if it stays there and it Revitalize that intersection have had it you I'm happy for a project like that but you need to show us that you have the funds to do it

and you plan on doing it and so I'm okay I've been to a lot of he say though that they don't have a loan yet for it that he didn't go to the bank no yes you you're correct he was he was looking to use us as the we've got some collateral we have some stuff on this promis Note Pro yeah and so that that's the hard thing when you start working

with uh non for-profits or organizations of that nature they typically don't have large cash flows so you have to kind of show oh we got a grant and so maybe the other component to this is not only this funding but try to go get some additional grant money you know um and I don't think any of that has been explored so I know back in October I spoke with uh Tony and the uh son of the

uh owner and said normally we are we like to be the second or third did you look and you know Tony recommended to go to us first and then look second I said well you have time you should look and and put it down because that would make you look more favorable when you come to us that we're just not your source of funding you know so I there's a I want

to give a shout out just to block down on the leftand side uh heading into um uh heading west uh you know there's a spectrum uh which is theater rats and that's all privately funded he's done that with grants and his own money and he's turned this building dilapitated building into something that's really nice um and again you know it can be done and you know if they ever came to

us and said if there was an opportunity that would be the person you did a lot of work and you did you know x y and z um that's a I think a true success story to help Revitalize the whole Flint area and Pleasant Avenue so Alex well I was just going to say here that it states other funds but when we spoke to individuals uh the other funds or maybe uh my own money private

funding uh there's nothing substantial at here as to what other funds are and the the statements were that well we're coming for funding and assistance because we don't have money to get the building up and and operational well okay how about the other funds that are listed here start putting some money into this property and I know that's what's being said generally here uh but it's been vacant for a number of years

with no other funds being app uh is is and our money CPC money going into to get the building started I think is uh probably using that same term you used earlier Michael the horse before the cart you know we got to have that reversed before we get too much further on the uh cough on school could you make sure we email Ken on the up to make updates uh um the information we were

on it but I know he had surgery so uh if you could just do you want them proofing I mean it's a non it's a non for-profit so I mean they they should show what they've spent they should show what they might have in the conference right now for these fundraisers and then basically it's part of your business plan what's your future endeavors like you know we're doing this fundraiser we

have to rent out another facility we oh for oh I'm sorry I thought we were went back I was just saying to send a letter and then also if you could send a letter to uh the night if they could send us a letter that they would have uh Bank financing if we did approve this right would we want that yeah for the nonprofit asking for two separate I I apologize when he was

talking I just we forgot to put the Coughlin one in as a reminder and then I wanted on the night out kenil that with all the numbers he raised at the meeting I asked him for that and I asked him to provide the plan already sent him that email him a second one um as a followup as we go towards voting then the night hourl so I've already made a

note to send Kenny and the owner second email okay now the night want me to send Kenny an email for the night well no Kenny's not on the night out Kenny's not on the night out oh all right so Tony you're going to Tony Tony Tony Tony okay so Tony now Tony has provided a t of information do we have the owner's email though do we have the owner's email uh yes I do send that to

him the okay so you are a basic business for Night Owl a basic bus plan for the night owl and well actually just proof of other financing yeah proof for the financing would be good one so I don't think there was actually Pro there is any proof of other financing for that one so that might be a moot point um regarding I think well they don't that was the Coughlin school that was that no

nothing I don't think anything further for the night out umed of information youy already wouldn't you suggest that the that there should be some some known funding source for the for the night owl right now there's none it's other sources what are the other sources well let me let me just kind of go through my points first um so okay so regarding the night owl um I think you'd probably be

hard pressed to find someone in the community who didn't want it saved um I think any Grant reward should be uh contingent on the deed restriction uh restricting the location within the municipality I don't know if I would go as far as the same exact location because it might be prohibitive to the business just because of the amount of space available um this project uh so this grant request I think is definitely

um it should be the last step not the first step um I would prefer to see other funding secured if not work already done to make this place operational before uh a grant request came to make it historically accurate and restored on the outside um that Grant would you know it would be like the owl on the top um it would it would be the historical features that would be the Finishing Touch not the

beginning touch um so I think it was very insightful to hear that the one of the primary drivers of this was the deed restriction I actually wish that was more um prevalent in the application um with that in mind I'm more supportive of um minimal funding just to secure that deed restriction giving the owner a chance to actually secure funding or do work to get the diner operational or

ever however it wants to be as long as that deed restriction is in place because if that is everyone's kind of goal I think I don't think there would be any problem with that from the community um deed restriction filing fee it's only 625 so it could be a minimum amount designated either towards accessibility um you know just so there is a promiser note so maybe if we wanted

to help them out that much or maybe if it's just you know a little bit of funding for exterior restoration whenever it actually does happen um but I I think the restriction would be the most important part of it yeah one of the things that's excellent uh the um the the looking at their applications they do have identified here $357,400 as other funds but doesn't it doesn't identify what those other funds are or

how are they getting it I think Tony said those were estimates not necessarily secured funding which is the the discrepancy in everyone's perception okay and then and then there asking for the $228,300 186,187

it's not cor so they they won't have funds for construction it's not like a construction loan you're just getting a tax credit to this so I'm just wondering if there's any other avenues that they could potentially look into um either you're going to privately fund this with a construction loan or your own personal funds um to start getting this operational and and again you know he

had a whole breakdown a very good very well done um but wanted to I think you know the $49,000 for the signs wanted that out and needed to have it uh replaced with putting in the 31,000 for plumbing and uh 24,000 for mechanical so that's making that an operational Diner and so my my feeling to it is well you should be making this an operational din this These funds shouldn't be making you

a whole getting you operational it should be an advancement and I think the reality is if some code came in from the city like you got to make it Ada accessible a ramp a bathroom that type of scenario that would be fine but you know um you again I kind of scratched my head it's been sitting for a while I think it's a good project I'd love to see it saved I'd love to see it

operational um how you get there uh I think part of the onus needs to go on to the applicant yeah sure I support strongly the giving them some money towards so that the thing will be you'll be restricted on the deed and they'll stay there um I also support most of the development it wasn't clear to me whether there was continuing is the roof okay is there continuing damage if something doesn't get there's 6,800

$1,600 in there for roof so yeah I thought there was I mean I haven't can't keep up with right I that to me sounds like we're not making it operational where we're trying to preserve it on the restaurant end I think he should be responsible for everything inside I mean as a public driving by the outside is what I would look at I probably would never go in but seeing a nice Diner from the

outside you know would be nice and uh you know we're more interested with the public sees and preserving the old the old Diner the business end of it I think should be his right requirement I have two other two the same kinds of concerns that have been voiced but not quite um without uh without being politically correct I'm wondering if the owner Nella is that how you say it is able to follow

through um and the second concern I have has already been voiced is the deed restriction should uh keep it in the Flint and and I just forgot the if I think of the other one but the big one is the is the is another way of saying it is the development team is not got a good plan yeah that's enough we've said it okay who's going to run the show after who Mr

Mr nasel looked like he was my age I should not run the show okay who's going to run it no that's good point I mean there there's no really plan for yeah for example the uh the school there was this a plan built in and they said well we're trying to get some younger people and they didn't look they didn't look 85 they looked 70s okay so that's the plan we're going

to run it we're going to get get a plan and blah blah blah not on this one yeah all right but I like the diners and oh I know what it is after visiting perhaps 25 or 40 diners in my life I bicycle I visited every Diner within bicycle distance of Fall River and starting in Rumford Rhode Island um nearly um it looks awful small it looks almost too small to be a

function and he didn't say it'd be a full Diner he was talking hamburgers and hot dogs he's not talking he's not talking not not talking elx Diner the the new the new Urban trend is creating these food truck rodeos and that type of scenario louder um instead of doing a dino which is a stationary entity like almax and this one um they're kind of trending away from that because it's tough to get

a business to continue especially with the seating I think there's only a dozen seating in there but that's what I think so you have to have a limited menu they have a Down stairs in the basement is where they do cooking and prep and they bring it up but the the the the kind of the trend now is to go to this uh um food truck Ro Rodeo style where uh these

these companies come in they bring in the food trucks they set up a dozen or so a half a dozen or so and um it makes it more profitable for those to do something like that but I do believe that this is a historical entity I do have one question um was that ever anywhere else except for that location I've only known it at that location but was it ever cuz it was if you see the

history they had a second food truck that they had out yeah they they had a food truck that's the the old original one and so um and then the only thing I was a little uh a little skeptic on is are you trying to just increase value to do a development on here and sell the land at the end of the day um and if that's the case God bless you have had

it we live in a capital Society the reality of it is I don't want to dump all that money into this and see it gone so there should be some deed restrictions it needs to stay there uh it needs to function as that uh in that particular case U we're going through that with almax and you know a potential developer that's on the corner Deval and president's ab and that's been in the

paper so I mean you've seen um I mean as a as the owner of the property I mean he owns the three buildings there getting a a grant through us getting a deed restriction does limit his options what he can do with that parcel because it's got to stay there yeah so it's a big thing on his end and so hopefully he's going to invest in it and we can do something yeah uh moving

on to St an well Ju Just One okay just a thought there's an addition being put on to this building for the handicap bathroom and nowhere do we see any Rec recognition that that's going to be in compliance when you go to the U Mass historic or any other type of funding sources uh is this addition and how is it going to be developed uh has it been approved there there's a it's a rather

large addition we could put that that uh designs have to be approved by the historical commission yes and is that going to change uh the nature of the building by doing that well obviously is going to change it it's different than a than a a ramp that's on but this is a large extension of the building you know so uh it it would have to be verified and and make sure that it's brought up

to the the standards that are required to keep the historic nature of that MH yeah that just a thought yeah well that I think all of the Reps should this is the the only real reason for keeping this is not business only not business is got in the Flint it's historical yeah okay and it's got to go through the historical commission I don't know anything about the I don't jeez I'll go with white

gutters all righty let's move on to St ant here um it's a historic they've been before us uh uh once before um they do a nice job they have they have a great organization that raises money uh uh look for 100,000 cost 330 repairing and uh Plastering um and it's one of the few projects that gives us a maintenance plan uh how they're going to make sure so that I always like so open up to the

the board for discussion I I think it's a great project it is an iconic uh element within the city uh it is you know the the the tough caveats are it's 20 in 2029 in my understanding is what's the dases going to do with this and like anything that's non-for-profit or religious uh there's no tax base typically to that but they should need or they should try to come up with

something uh to make it a sustainable um entity where they generate their own money for maintenance and operations and then come for us with funds when needed for the historical component of it um I give them a lot of cud they've done a lot to preserve it uh to get the funds up to get the operations like it's I mean it does pretty well with the selling of um ceremonial

candles and stuff of that nature um but again you know a lot of it is from donations and we're getting through a generation uh especially in the Catholic church where the people who are giving now uh the Baby Boomers um I don't know if those funding sources are going to be there in the future but I I like the project I just would like to see a a real kind of a a big a

long-term business plan who's going to be the next ones they do a tremendous job of doing what they do right now what's the next Generation going to look like and are we going to be in the same situation right now in 50 years uh when they're gone and um but um again I think they've done a lot with the funds that they've had and it is it is a not just a

a local iconic element but I think it has Global impacts as well uh as far as Ontario and Montreal and in the region so question uh I think it's a great project great application uh they have the other funding secured um I would just note that um I would I would advocate for us reuping the deed restriction um because they've previously got a grant award from us before and that deed restriction

was signed but I would just reup it to it wasn't signed all right well wait wait with the bishop well when that one signed we'll reup it with the the difference of the years since it was supposed to actually we'll have to figure out how that works I guess um so that would be my caveat would be uh reupping the deed restriction could could you explain at least for me um what why the deed restriction reupping

and stuff like that is important I just don't know it'll add two additional years so so in so in theory so they should have had the D restriction already signed say the grant was done I don't know 3 years ago so it would have been 3 years off of the 30-year deed restriction already so one could argue um that there's less of a community benefit since it already has a

deed restriction on it so one way to combat that would be to re-up it to the maximum again which I believe is 30 uh years and what what does that um uh it protects it longer it protects long but what does it protect it from like make sure that it's still historical it's all for historical it's the historic deed restriction to make sure it's Secretary of interior standards okay perfect thank you we've

been waiting to meet with the bishop and we've been doing it a couple time signing but so we'll have to figure out how the years will work for that little to get the bishop it might it might have to be like written in the grant award that there'll be an additional deed restriction once the existing one expires for however however many years in their letter they they stated that they're willing to extend it yeah that

was my question I think at the eligibility here so they did say something about um a time frame of 2029 that's with the dasis what is what what does that pertain so that's that's their lease agreement with the nonprofit organization that's currently running the shrine um I did speak with one of the members um uh personally and they feel confident that they'll get another lease agreement I mean I don't want to

speak for anyone but that that was a concern of mine is what would happen um in 2029 if they're no longer in in charge of it and my understanding is things are working really well and there's no reason it won't be um re-up and then once they once they get that's for the down the shrine right that they that's what's operational right now and their plan is like your question about

like the business plan like their plan is to open the top level which would open up a lot more events like they describe the concerts and stuff they would like to have there and that would be you know an additional Revenue Source too to go into maintenance and everything and and fut yeah like like or like they mentioned the Far River Symphony Orchestra yeah the the the um it was the Notre

Dame Basilica in Montreal that was one that I was told about looked at it and looked at talk to somebody up there about how they got to this point of where this thing was same s situation with st an's was falling apart and they had to come up with some Revenue sources to it so they did the music the light show all of that type of scenario and they still have their it's still

actually an active Church in the back where they're actually doing masses and we attended and it's beautiful but it's nice to see you know it's it's it's sustainable like they they're they're generating enough money to maintain that building for generations to come and so did my analysis it's sustainable if they don't need to hire a lot of Staff in other words if you start hiring

a clergyman and a you know an organist and blah blah blah the stuff you would normally associate with a church they're in trouble but they're avoiding that you see they're basically saying we're having a tourist attraction which will have some Community benefits and concerts and visitors and prayers for people who are sick mhm I don't think they can open upstairs right now not yet no that that's that's why they don't

have all that extra well they can do the pray they're now doing the prayers for people who are say candles are paying for the heat yeah that's yeah that's that's clever I think they raised over what 7 million uh into that church already so yeahh and and they have the fund the this is a part this is partial funding requests for the whole project so and they have the other funding secured I believe through

inheritances or or will any other questions no no questions I'm in fav I think it's a really worthwhile project I next is the narrow gate house that's historic uh that's the one right on the highway nice and visible uh they're looking for 250 um I think it's a worthwhile project doing uh we will have to look at the numbers uh to see where histor preservation stands when we get down to

the voting part of it so any questions on that one any comments uh just I have go ahead Chris sorry um so I guess my my one concern here is and I I think it's a good project um but they have a few projects still in the works um they have let me see they have four projects that are still in the works plus a bond that we're still paying on which is basically

five projects that we've awarded them funding for that are not finished yet and I my concern is giving more money that's going to be tied up again for however long when there are other projects that might be a little more ready to go cuz I mean I could see if they just had like one project out and I understand things take a while um you know things don't always get done as

quickly as possible but to say like there's four active projects does concern me a little bit okay so um uh oh sorry being that two projects are concerning the water department and it might level how we think about funding the two projects uh maybe we'll discuss both of them at the same time no can I can I maybe parse this I understand that uh concern we had asked originally um if

there if the three sort of cosmetic prod uh part parts of the project the copper gutters brick and roof could be parsed out in the estimated 250,000 was that ever provided uh that was for the uh for the water correct for the gate house works the repair no we we asked for this one the gate house yeah for the gate house yeah we we asked if they could parse out the 250,000 because that was a

combin for the gutters brick and roof and I think that the the Genesis of that question would have been to help us delineate not providing an entire 250 for an entire three parts of a project but maybe we provide partial funding for maybe what's most needed so we probably should want to follow up and get that and maybe that helps member aliv Vera to your question or concern rather um it's not

it's not a matter of what can or can't get funded it's that the matter is there's still for open projects that they have that we have put money toward that is still sitting there and they've already gotten extensions on a couple of those and they're probably going to need extensions on the other ones um so my concern is giving them more money on top of the money that's already been given

out and I mean some of these are going back a few years already and I would feel more comfortable seeing like giving more money once I can see one or two of these projects are actually finished or close to being finished and I don't think any of them are even remotely close to being finished do you know what those three Pro those four of the projects are seaw walls is one of them yeah so the seaw

walls is one of them there's the Waterworks pump house uh the bonab blossom workshop and the historical documents okay good you I and then we have a bond still on the bio reserve it was a 10 year bond could you say that again a little more slowly the seaw wall is the is at the uh that that's a study for the seaw wall assessment of North upon at the

causeway uh it was one of the that's one of the sections it's I think four sections of granite seaw wall one of them is the causeway um there's uh the part oh it's around the reservoir yeah it's it's it's yeah I understand okay what are the others there's the Waterworks pump house um that was under historic preservation Works pump house oh yeah Pump House yep okay what else there was the Barnabas the Barnabas Blossom

Workshop which that one was from FY 23 okay that one is complete that was under historic preservation going I think what was the nature of that work it was purchase and Rehabilitation to make it the Bier Reserve Discovery Center I believe oh oh okay gotcha yeah that's okay that's on Barnabas Bloss and then there was the the historic the historic documents yeah and that's preservation of the historic documents

that's digitally scanning um and saving the the documents and making them more available for research purposes okay scanning documents the the question is more of like a bandwidth question right like can they can they handle another project or should they be awarded another project while they're still in I think that's a valid you know concern I I just want to know what the four projects are that's all I'm we can one

more there's one more you said four that was four that was a four oh it's a bond we have a bond on the bio Reserve that's fine that's the barn on across from the headquarters no it's the bond B it's um it was was a it was a bond purchase land acquisition in the bio Reserve I believe it was two parcels and we bonded we bonded to buy both of them excellent so

that's five technically can I just I'm going to just my that that has been done it's it's on I think the purchases have been finalized it's just we're still paying for them right that they' so four four four un incomplete projects do we do we sorry just to clarify on BJ's member McDonald's question um is it a bandwidth issue do we know or is it an execution problem or maybe both I

think it's probably a little bit of both right with anything with government moves slow so that was one of my questions when they came because um I was one of the people who kind of advocated to make sure that seall study did get funded and when I asked about it it was just a matter of Staffing and not having the time to to actually I believe go out to bid for it yet so I do share

your concerns about bandwidth um and and and just kind of giving too much all at once uh historically before my time even the committee's preference was not to fund um applicants who had ongoing projects we've been more lenient with the water department or Department of Community uh sorry all the different names they have um because they they're so wide ranging and they they touch upon

like you know land Acquisitions in the bio Reserve infrastructure for the actual water department um they they they've requested other things that haven't been funded like the interlock and so like they wanted to try and get like a guide for the Interlock in um area um partially and like do some vegetation cleanup so they they do a lot of different stuff but yeah it's pretty um the every year funding is tight and

they're asking for 700,000 this year um we could kind of opt for a partial funding um I didn't see an immediate pressing need for these buildings like at being at risk in in the near future um it just seemed like they were just trying to button them up and and get them you know respectable looking um so so it could be it could be a a a wait and see sort of thing they they

have um reapplied for projects that weren't funded in the past um so so it's something they're capable of doing can you put a timeline or have you put timelines on these projects they the grant funding usually expires in two years and as I someone said um they've gotten I think Christ and said um they've gotten some extensions before and they'll probably be coming again this month for some extensions and then

you know we could ask the hard questions and we're not obligated to give them an extension either it's you know at our discretion um it's you know we kind of asked the reasoning and we kind of you know play it by ear in the past we have uh halted uh City projects because uh they were two million and funds going out and we thought we wanted to see them

catch up when the work so we did suspend uh uh renewing any projects that they brought before us till they uh work that down so I mean it could be where we just bypass these and we have them come back next year you know it's not we don't have to fund and if we think they have too many projects out we want to see one or two come off the boards before we do

any other funding we can do that as a group we've done it in the past I I just want to and again I like this project especially the Gateway project it is a the um um uh the uh the n The Narrows gate house project I really do like that because it is a gateway especially going on from 195 going west and then going north on 24 uh it would be definitely a

project that you could say oh this is what we fund one of the problems I have with and I'm not going to make any fans on this and I'm sure I'm going to get a phone call tomorrow but a lot of other SE a lot of other uh cities and towns that we work with that we do this they actually go go through and there's a procurement process so you have to

procure somebody to do the design of a project like this it's got to go out get three bids go through the whole process it's time it's time consuming then basically once you get the the drawings done and the documents done then it takes probably another uh at least six to nine months to get contractors to build or to get a bid in and then you know at that time you know we've got a

number here um the design has hasn't been done we're thinking it's going to cost this amount this amount of money and again I like this project one of the things I would suggest and like this is to the city is other cities what they do is they go in and they have these projects already designed they've already gone they've looked at it they've paid for it whatever the funds they've they've

gotten they put them in the shelf so when they're shovel ready they'll go out and get uh grant money like the CPA funding money historical preservation money it's all set up we call those shovel ready and there's a lot of other avenues like mass and motion depending on the project uh Park projects and so it just seems like if you're if you have four projects out there right now and

nothing is done yet you're going to put a fifth one on and I like this project more than any of the other projects that you just mentioned to me um but I would suggest that how you kind of hold their feet to the fire because um by the time you get a designer and bids out and everything else when you go through the public bid process it's a year it's a year and um

and this project unlike the other one where again I some of this could be maintenance neglective maintenance uh I think the the the gate house is a nice historical building people see it but the reality of it is that you kind of you know are you taking funds to go because of neglect of Maintenance or I don't know it just um I like the project this one specifically the the uh the

gate house but the reality of it is if you just told me there's four more projects that have been bid or awarded like over what five years ago that and still there's nothing there's no movement on it um well I look at the water department I also look at like the city projects cuz it's it's a whole enti I mean there's the Overlook uh project that hasn't been finished there's quite

a few you Overlook at Kennedy kened Kennedy Park one okay Kennedy Park South Park yep what else uh that's not the water John's making a case for the city project controls it so I like we like to keep the number of dollars that are ti I understand it I just wanted to know the project of Father Kelly Park too I think that one's wrapping up or should be that's a good one so but that's

also that was applied through the the league too not the city okay so like there's it's different the maple wood that was applied by the league got it okay all right so any other comments on that one we'll move on to I just want the building itself I'm not clear at all and partly cuz I couldn't figure out how to get there um you really can't get there right I tried but I failed good

luck but I could not see it helps me the conference schol I could see okay U I don't want to get more Dam it looks like it's it look the picture all I got is the picture it looks like it's terrible shape there there's no in terrible shape probably for a number of years well that's there's such a history of neglect to this kind of thing because of a lack of funding and interest I understand

that we we did ask if there was structural damage and he said that there's not so this is this is specifically a cosmetic upgrade yeah I want to be sure the roof is the roof is not in it I know that I I believe he did mention that the roof is leaking yeah I asked and he said no I don't remember the leaking roof I don't think it was the roof I don't remember the leaking

that was the the other this one's leaking before we move on from the gaos I just if we did if we did opt for partial funding I do think a requirement should be um them pursuing uh exterior illumination with mass do I think that would be worthwhile agreed if we did go if they it's allowable yeah I also think these funds should not come with any time extension you have to use this in

12 months well that's that's our committee's prerogative like when March comes and and the applicants coming for extensions come before us that's yeah in all I got excited when I saw this one too I think same to you because I think we we drive by this as many times you know see yeah you see all the time it's like man if we can make this look a little bit better and we had a hand in

helping that would be awesome but you got to do it I I just FYI I did drive by uh this particular one that the uh Gate House Narrows Gate House I did pull over pull in and at night and I I actually have um a photometrics reader and they have uh Cobra head lighting up and down that highway so whatever we're going to do there it's going to need some extensive illumination because it's

already flooded with uh because of that curve I was I I thought of it and then I wasn't quite sure across the street are all of the staging of trucks and Equipment I'm assuming it's ma that's Mass do so yeah and so um I don't know what our caveat is to get that stuff moved out of there or if it needs to be there or whatever it might be but um yeah that's well illuminated

so you know even if we don't vote on it doesn't mean it can't come back next year MH so we all like it but if it doesn't fit in right it can come back you know so yeah I I I agree with what CHR can't make it work it can always come back the following year and we can address it again uh so next is the Watershed uh building it's historic they're looking for

450 which we talked to them about uh breaking that in the two stages uh again if we think they too much money out in the city Side already we want to hold back it's not like this building hasn't been uh you know I sometimes I'd like to see the city putting a little more into the buildings I understand we don't have the money up they have up the water department maintenance budget substantially but

most of that is done on the water and uh right but his budget has gone up for the whole water also ear marked already though I don't mean the maintenance of the the facility not not the maintenance of the pipes yeah but the maintenance of the facility it was 80,000 it was 80 and it's was now 80 I can't remember what he said but it's up like like like doubled anyway I shouldn't have jumped in that's

okay that's okay any comments down this way first the total project is is $495,000 they're asking for $450,000 and that means that they're adding or they're contributing $45,000 um the 10% is it's the 10% contingency I believe they're contributing to is that what that is for both of them so we're pretty much paying for the whole project that's all I'm saying yeah similar similar to what a

Committee Member Sylvia said previously I I think it would make the applications much stronger if they did the city did partially fund or or make progress in some way like doing the design ahead of time um it would be time saving and and then both show like the commitment like you know if they're designating uh 10% contingency already they could kind of bank that for two years and possibly

fund the full design and then come at us for the rest of the project cost some I think that's a possibility the waterw the the the shed I'm less excited about the shed than I am the gate house um I understand it's probably has a lot more utility use for the Department uh itself um perhaps if if we opt not to to go forward with it this year they could make improvements similar to what uh

member Mancini suggested you know painting the garage doors and kind of showing showing some effort in that way um towards uh you know historic preservation or just preservation of the building in in general gentleman any comments okay all right that is the last one I think did we get every project we got every project believe me I think we should have some more what's that oh discuss the ranking process

oh well I was going to do that next week but we I think we did go over that uh well if you want to just go for the new members about how voting happens and like how they want to sign numbers and stuff just to make sure yeah uh hopefully during this process you highlighted what you would like to see as a number one number two a number three as what you think is the

importance three of those you have three yes it says right there okay yeah and uh that's how you'll be voting but then you also got to keep in mind uh we'll have 180 going into historic open space and community housing so that we back out right away we have an additional 249 that can go into community housing that's if it's not allocated um there is no cies that we make so this year we don't

have any open space so automatically the 12 uh 181 to 1287 180 would go into that's after the deduction oh if you already did deduction so yeah so we already have that taken out yeah that it looks like the rail I'm going to double check the the uh the bike path but that it looks like that looks like that money is going to come in and that's open space SP also well that was already paid

for I mean he's saying it's going to come back no it's coming back to us so that oh you're my feeling is that we could have I hope my hope is that those land those two land Acquisitions are really important and we need money for them we will come close if we took the what's in the kitty now and added the uh bike trail money I'm not saying we fund them I'm saying

that we would have sufficient we would have reserves open space reserves yep that bike it's important to have about $500,000 in there if we can get that high we'll probably have more than that but uh but the bike trail is stri strictly for open space and record no historical component to it like the over was was the Overlook any historical as well or is it just open open space I

believe um so open any project that was going to have money coming back it will go back into the categories that it was awarded to so like if it was historic preservation to go to that open space and so forth the Overlook is still out there they still have 250,000 on the books for the Overlook but they've been taking bids it's up to $5.8 million to do what they want to do

now yeah this the Overlook was proved back in I think 2017 or 18 something like that yeah that's why basic yeah but it's exploded where our you know it almost never works on any any any town or city that I've worked at where they've included The Design Services to it because you throw out this hypothetical number based on fictitious numbers of what you think it's going to be and so usually you do a master plan

come up with a contingent number to it and then go for the funding for that and so there's different Avenues to get that funding and so what I'm saying from the federal and state level when you do that like I I don't do a ton of this but when I do it's like cities that always get funded for their projects and that's why they have the nice park systems the bike

trails the open space or whatever might even historical buildings like libraries or firehouses well when we uh granted that one that was just to put a few park benches clean up a little cut back the abrasive look so you could see the time River accessible to the public wasn't like now it's like yeah I understand Atrium this hand parking and you know which is nice but it was not in our

original design so yeah that was fy17 s okay so so cost escalations alone you know yeah yeah gotcha um what am I missing on that you want to finish that up uh um I think it's already been said but so the lower the score the the higher the higher the the project is ranked everyone gets 3 ones 3 twos and 33s I believe um hello Len yeah don't us interrupt calls in and

I've returned it and I'm picking up a prescription an hour that's does anyone I guess does anyone have questions about uh scoring I'm picking no we just we just discussed waiting um the survey um the one that you've already accused yourself from that project we'd have to come up with a waiting system so it um equals out correctly if we want to reach out to Corporation Council get their opinion

that would probably be a safe thing to do um yeah I know uh just so I'm almost I wait for let's just wait for Jim because little distracting you sorry folks no we're all volunteers here except for that $29 65 just so like everyone knows there is no um like official process for how this uh happens it's kind of so so as as the first gateway City to to become a community

preservation act Community um for River kind of has led the way in terms of pioneering processes and figuring things out that hasn't been done before so it's um always susceptible and open for changes and Improvement so um we can figure out the best way for for that to make everything fair so really the first one first gateway first gateway City Y should have known that when I was going door to door

absolutely that's amazing it's it's a remarkable accomplishment it is it is 200 h word one yeah approved it yeah and that's where we were yeah I would I would just ask for an opinion an official opinion before s can I can I provide a can I provide you a a recommendation on what yep for sure and then and then they can you can take that with CC John too basically don't go empty-handed I'll

give you something to chew on because the guidelines uh CPA we set as a committee yeah so we can change our voting if we want how we do it next year but how we uh probably should do is uh solve the uh the three votes that aren't going to be for the uh form B's just recusals in general it needs to be kind of ironed out and made sure it's fair I'll I'll I'll email you

Sandy and chairman BR I I'll need to knowes all right I next so I guess it would be beneficial if all committee members send John uh chairman brand and Sandy their opinions um and we get an official opinion for from Corporation Council and then ahead of scoring we kind of make a determination maybe we put it on the agenda just so it's an agenda item um first on the agenda yeah yeah and then

and then we can kind of just see how it plays out I guess that's fing resolution yeah yeah I I actually pretty good friends with um gentleman named way Dar he's actually president of community opportunity groups in small towns and communities that have CPA grants and stuff of that nature um he runs those for them and maybe perhaps I can ask him yeah if that like how they end up doing

a t well every Community does them different yeah perhaps I don't know if we've ever actually asked steuart saginor our um representative from the community preservation Coalition which is a nonprofit that helps guide municipalities throughout the state and keeps everyone updated on Law changes which happens very often especially with case Law changes um maybe there has been some consensus in other communities

maybe no one's even asked the question before you know it really could be anything um sometimes the answers will surprise you in a bad way because all of our paperwork came from our committee there was no paperwork the state the state just we just voted it in and with with Trailblazers much started to create over the years we have changed things like in a good example is the bonding I believe we were one of the first

communities to actually start bonding projects that's why I that was never done before Fall River you know so yeah yeah first to zoom see look at that like well that's why I when I asked about the bonding process I think it's important for the community to understand that because it's not an easy process and it's not it's rarely done unless it's a major project like a new school as you

know and being on the state steering committee I'm amazed that like they were a big deal in Boston where they said oh we assign people to the projects to go out and look at them I didn't say anything but I'm like going like we've been doing this for years you know I'm like so I mean we're yeah as things and change is is good so we can always look

at at the end of the year that's where we can wrap up since we will be done I guess this would be efficiently under new business I guess uh talking about uh we can come up with those uh ideas if we have any thing because we're going to be finishing out our voting at the end of the month and in Appropriations that is handled by Sandy and we to go through uh we'll go to the

city council meeting uh and then we can bring up uh if there's any paperwork we want to like highlight changes yeah that if we that's like a summer like when we go over the master plan we go over all the forms we make all the changes and stuff to every every piece of the form like like eligibility funding application um guidelines you know all and we we can kind of set the

preference for the forthcoming year yeah the funding agreements you know there could be like conditions written in to all of them pre-approve sort of change anything some years we yeah you know like the uh we want we want highlight the uh information for uh outside funding uh maybe highlight that a little more language to it but you know great uh question keep talking the one two

three yes I I go for one it gets three points you if you so um if you give a one to a project it's one point and then the the ranking is uh lowest to highest it's like golf oh God it's like it's like golf it's like golf so you you give you give your ones to your most favorite project I understand that but I was ask I'm glad I asked because it's a point

score now if I ask if I if I pointed three how many points does it get it's three yeah it's the three and then we add up that can I vote zero no a zero would be better than a one so it's it's can I vote four no there's only there's only what do I do with a project that I think absolutely shouldn't go you give it a three you

give it a three what if I think of a project as okay but probably a two yeah then I run out of twos okay yeah then it's that that's be AED it is confusing all right and no further new business uh can I have a motion to adjourn I motion to adjourn second roll call Michael FIS yes Chris Benavides yes Alexander Silva yes John BR yes James hsby Yes Rick Mancini yes BJ McDonald yes

Chris Chris Kar Oliver yes thank you have a good