4.8.2026 Board of Library Trustees

Ronald Kathleen here.

And Rocket Sperling here.

Sharon Quinn here.

Fran Rackley here. James Gibney present.

Tim Long here. Eddie Gimman here.

Melissa Panchley is absent. Paula Cullen here.

And Felicia Desire and the library director. And Kayla King. Uh we are both here. She is the assistant administrator.

Okay. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or they may transmit the transmit the meeting through any media. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether they are perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Okay. The minutes of the previous meeting. Did everybody get them?

No.

We're waiting for Jim.

I got them in the mail.

All right. Referring to the email, huh?

Email.

Referring to the email the minutes for last. Did you get your email?

Oh, yeah. I got them.

Okay. Are there any corrections or emissions? I think there are several. Uh does any of you I was think for the motion that was made uh to keep the bookstore that um second par that second line there uh due to previously shared legal concerns that we did that wasn't discussed at the meeting. So and I don't think it should be part of that um that motion.

The legal concerns they were discussed.

No, no, they weren't discussed at that point. I think it was just plain keeping the the bookstore open. That was the that was the the motion. I don't think there was any anything about the uh director show up after that. Is that what the correction is?

No, the motion should show up before that line was not discussed due to previous shared legal concerns.

this uh the director will defer to the city administrator. That wasn't in the notion because we wouldn't.

That's not part of the motion. That was my that was what I am doing based on that motion.

Yeah. But this is a a motion that's uh that that's in the minutes and and that wasn't part of the motion. And secondly, the administrator has nothing to do with the operation of this library. It's the board of trustees. So there is no reason. That's why it would have been picked up if it did come up at the last meeting to say no, we don't go to the city administrator when it comes to library business. Period.

I'm I'm sorry. I'm I'm a little bit confused. I definitely brought up the concerns of of there being legal concerns regarding what we were asking to do. Um you might have brought it up, but I don't think it was part of the motion.

No. And I don't believe that I listed it as part of the motion on there. It's just part of the discussion.

But could I just say something that you uh you did mention about um saying that you had to talk to um you know the city uh to the city administration to get permission whether or not it's okay to give the uh the books uh for free and that's what you mentioned but during the motion you never mentioned about uh seeking resolution for the library bookstore operation while adhering to

city ordinance and council uh process relating to the city.

that that whole line you didn't even mention.

I promise I I listened to the meeting three times and I absolutely mentioned that where there were legal concerns to that mostly because there are legal concerns related to the leasing of city property and I know that we're saying that the board oversees the operation of this building that is true but whereas we are concerning the property of the city they do they do kind of have some

say in that. No, the board has a say. If somebody else separate from the board wants to approach the administrator, nobody can stop them from doing that.

I will.

But this board coordinates all of the activities etc related to the library, not the city administrator.

I understand. So, I had passed on what the board wanted to do to the administration, but I don't have the the ability to make a permanent lease.

That's just not within my scope of my role.

You're missing my point, Felicia.

I think I am.

Once this board makes a decision, um, it's not in your authority to go to the city administrator.

I have to go to No, you do not. you report to this board.

I mean, when it comes to budget, other stuff, yes, go to the city administrator, but not when it comes to the operation of the library. That's this board's preview. No one else's.

Anyone disagree with me on that?

I think we can move on from that.

Okay.

Okay. Uh, any other I'll make the correction. Okay. Uh the other thing too was uh that we you had uh the citizens input says none, but Richard was here. So I was wondering why it said none.

That was an error uh in an oversight. So I will make that correction.

Are there any other corrections or omissions?

Move acceptance of the minutes. I'll take um as corrected.

Okay, second.

No seconds.

I can't get a second on this.

I'll second that.

Okay. All those in favor?

I.

Any opposed?

I'd like to wave the reading of the statistics and report of um report of the library director because of other business and I have to leave early. So I'd like to just wave the reading because it's in you know our minutes etc and move to the report of the nominating committee.

Is everybody agree to that?

Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Okay. Uh the nominating committee, do you want to present your vote, your slate?

All right. Oh, Missy, is it? Yes. The nominating committee presents the slate of Ron Kaplane for president of the board of trustees and James Gibney as Oh no.

Sharon Quinn who was vice president.

Okay. Move acceptance.

I second.

Okay. I don't think we can take a vote on it today.

No. Next at the next meeting.

At the next meeting we But I we'll take other nominations right now if there are any.

Do we have any other nominations for chairman?

Okay. Do we have any other nominations for vice chairman?

then we'll accept it.

Thank you.

Okay.

Uh so your suggestion is now to move on to what seven now number seven. Okay. The unfinished business building repairs. Yeah. So I could provide an update on that. So we started, if you could tell, I don't know if anyone's taken a look at the backside of the building, but they're actually working very very quickly. Uh, so we're happy that it's it's happening. Um, so they're doing a cleaning restoration

first. So it you can't tell anymore, but you could tell when about half of it was done. Um, all of the stone has been cleaned and so it's a completely different color than the front, which hopefully we'll get them to match soon.

Um, but it's been going very well in there. They're taking out all of the stuff that's in between the bricks that are laid. And uh, they're going to be coming inside. They were going to be coming inside June 1st, but now we've been given an earlier date. They want to come inside as early as next week. So, we're working very very hard to uh find areas to move the reference material because the uh calendar just keeps

moving on us. And it's good because it's progress. Um but it definitely puts us under a lot of pressure to figure out some of those some of those limitations.

So, uh we are working pretty hard to do that. Uh and I think that's as far as building updates. So, we have that going on. Uh, I am trying to inquire about the HVAC, uh, the leaks of the HVAC, but I think it's moving quite well. I'm I'm pretty happy with the amount that we're getting done right now. I I think it's been great.

What did you hear back about the uh the air conditioner?

Um, I just haven't heard anything.

You haven't heard? I think at the last meeting you said in two weeks we were going to hear. So, um, I think that a few other things came up in the meantime and there just really is an inability to, I think, understand how that's going to financially impact us as we do all of these other things and where that could fit in. I think that will be better answered when we're closer to a

finalized budget. Um, because then we can understand whether that's something that is in the cards for city operations, but it's on it's on everyone's minds and I keep reminding about it, so it will not be forgotten about. Okay.

Uh let me Okay. Any other discussions about the building itself?

It's fascinating watching them do it out there.

Yes, it is.

It's been very very fast. Um okay, the next thing. No. Is there any other unfinished business?

Okay, we'll move on to new business then.

Okay. Um, so I had put communication on the agenda this this month just because I felt like last time the way that the meeting was left, I didn't feel like um I didn't feel that it felt as conducive or productive uh to what we to how we normally work and I'd really like to get back to that. Uh so it took a little bit of a different tone uh and I had to

leave the meeting and kind of process what was influencing our communication.

And what I did notice was a lot of what was happening, the miscommunications, they were led by uh gossip driven confusion that kind of occurred outside and in advance of the meeting uh that I didn't really have a chance to really uh interact with anyone about beforehand and we didn't have our normal opportunity to present our ideas uh before the meeting ultimately became misdirected because of

some preconceived ideas about maybe what was going on. Um, and so I think it was it was a it was a little bit difficult to present our report. Well, to present my report, I suppose. Um, and to present ideas. We didn't have a chance to actually present all of our our ideas because of some of that um going into different directions of conversations that I hadn't heard of before that day.

Um, and so I personally think that it's important to keep a streamlined way of communication. Uh, and I'd really like to be able to present information as it was planned. And if there's concerns about something that are coming up in the meantime between meetings, I think that it's important to know that I'm always available to discuss things that you might be hearing in advance of

meetings. Um, I think that it would be really nice to touch base and maybe get on the same page before we come together and and vote on decisions just because there's a lot of things that could be, you know, uh, worked out or discussed um, just in in regular conversation, I think.

So, this is communication between you and the board or between you and somebody else.

Um, my hopes are communication between me, all of the members of the board. I think that I I look at you all of the same. uh and so I would like to interact with you all in the same way. Um no one's different. So something that I that I was worried about uh after leaving would be an inquiry of honesty uh or trust of the administration that came up last meeting. Um I'd like to

think that the board has supported my directorship for the following reasons.

um they see or believe that my work ethic is strong, that my intentions are good, and that our goals for the library most importantly are aligned um for the same for the same goals to meet the same goals. And so I think trust is absolutely necessary.

Uh as a director, I am the sole library representative in between all parties.

So that includes our nonprofits, our staff, our patrons, our administration, the council, and the state. So that's about seven very large and distinct groups. Uh and so I have to take all of the perceptions and the opinions uh and all of those concerns and then suggest to you all uh what I think is the best course of action for not only our library but you all our staff, our residents and then balance that with

financial obligations and limitations.

And so I think that without trust we can do it. Um, but I think that we're going to be working at a bare minimum capacity and I think that what we've done in a year has been meaningful and I'd really like to do more than bare minimum. And so I think that it's really important that we have trust and if there is not trust that we address that um immediately so that we can work together

because this is the foundation of the library as a whole and I can better advocate for us if if we're in support of each other.

Well, you know you have trust because we we elected you to this position. So, you know, you have our trust, but I think that there are things to be worked out as well through the chair. Um I I agree with what you said and then Ron agreed also but I think the stuff that came up with the last meeting I don't think it had anything to do with what trustees might have heard in between because I

for one and I got the sense several others were kind of surprised at what came up at the last meeting related to the big example would be closing of the bookstore and and hearing about some concerns. I don't think many of us had heard that before the meeting because if we had, I for one, I'll say would have definitely given you a call. But I would agree with you that we needed we need to

have an open situation between either us as a board of individual board members and yourself. And I want to say I feel very comfortable with you. Feel comfortable making a call if necessary.

So um um I don't think your concern is a feeling of the entire board.

Okay.

Related to how can I put it any concerns we might have because I didn't have any concerns until some stuff came up at the meeting.

I think that it was an oversight and a misjudgment on my part to not mention certain things earlier on. I think that that could have been probably communicated a little bit better with a little bit more finesse.

Um so I apologize about that.

Don't have to.

I think uh I think one thing related to say in regards to gossip um I've been out in the community both personally and then in work and I'm hearing you it's really it's really uh a shame that they closed your library bookstore. We haven't actually made any public announcements in that way of that. So, I know that there's a lot of other conversations that are happening and I'm not sure

where that's coming from, but um but I think that some of these things are worrying me because we don't we didn't really push that to the public or we didn't make, you know, that final decision without really hearing thoughts on it. So, so, um I think that there definitely is some some gossip happening and some other stuff going on. There's different associations that have reached

out to us and said that these things are being discussed. um there and and they hear that they've already been done and so there's definitely misconceptions about what's going on with the library.

Good luck controlling gossip.

Thank you. Yeah, it's been difficult. Um so that was my what I wanted to say about communication with the board because I think that that was very important.

Um I would like to communicate about our processes with the friends a little bit uh from administration's perspective. I think we're going to move on from into uh Yes. Go ahead.

Could I just ask a question? So, I'm under the understanding that we did not that we voted against closing the correct floor is open.

That's what I wanted.

The third floor is just I mean, if you go up there, there is areas chained off.

We were going to close off the entire upper level um due to the construction, but the only area that is open is the bookstore. So, it's still open um when it's staffed right now. Uh, so that's still it's still open. When I had said about the permanent leasing, um, and that I would find out with the administration, that was more in regards to the request to make that a permanent installment. Um, and that from what I

understand, I think takes several steps that haven't been taken yet. So, I'm not sure what what you're saying.

So, I think that there was a question of uh of permanency of what the vote. Um, I think you had said uh in regards to the permanency of the bookstore and so with that that would have to be an agreement because that was what was voted on. That's what I had said due to the previous concerns. I'll defer to No, I'm not. No, I'm confused.

I'm confused, too.

As far as we're concerned, we took a vote to keep the bookstore open and it will remain open until this board decides otherwise.

So it is.

So not permanently.

Yes. Yes.

Okay. So that's what I mean. That's that's all I know. I think she's saying it's open for now, but like a a lifetime lease isn't like a possibility.

Like I can't I I just can't.

As far as we're concerned, it's open operation and there's nothing else related to it.

Okay. Um was there any other questions on that?

When you say lease, what are they leasing the space?

No.

No. They're part of the library. It's It's a fixture in the library.

Exactly.

So just the I think by lease I mean like the outside organization using the space like it's not an official like that station within this library.

So in order to be given a space I think legally like it is a lease but I mean we can kind of work out the details of that. I don't see where there's a lease.

It's I think this is more an issue of wording. Um and I I'm not sure how long has the bookstore been in operation approximately uh 8 n 11 years.

So there's no discussion. It's part of the library. They've been here 11 years.

It will continue as is as far as the board's concerned.

Okay. Um unless others disagree with me. No, I don't think we have to complicate things. You know, it is it's a good place for the friends and you would have and there was another lot of books all over the place and this is one designated area for another thing we were discussing with the bookstore was the idea of the books that are being discarded from here what to do with them and you felt there was a

legality in getting these books but there really isn't. I think one of the board members has looked into this and they found that it is perfectly legal for the books from the library that are being discarded that no longer used can automatically go to the bookstore and and sell.

What I will say is that I think that the ordinance has absolutely nothing to do with me or my position and so that is no but it is okay.

Yeah. the just so you know that it is okay for the for the bookstore to have these books.

If if I could just uh um reiterate with that, it's the um inspector general office for the state of Massachusetts uh that we're in contact with and they said that it it is not illegal to give um discarded books from a library to a nonprofit organization such as the friends because those books have of no value. So there's nothing wrong. It's done throughout the state. is done throughout the country that these books

discarded books from the library are given to organizations and not just like the friends it could be like a nonprofit organization outside the friends as well. Um so there's there's not absolutely nothing wrong with it. I mean even like the books that we have um here that are are discarded what's illegal is to give city property away.

But you that are purchased by the city wouldn't be considered city property in your in in your the inspector general they they oversee anything you know with surplus items any fraud going out in the state. So he he had suggested that it is perfectly okay to give the discounted books to a nonprofit organization such as your friends especially since the money comes back and it comes back to this to the library.

I don't think the question is based on whether you give it that's donation basis whether it can be placed for resale. It sounds like it's the question right?

Yeah but Paul is saying it's not a problem. No, no, no, no. I just that's what they know. They know that it's given to the fence. They're going to be selling it to make it money back into the city for the library.

I I think that that's that's okay. I mean, the way that ordinance is interpreted, I think is outside of the purview of uh especially with with things like that. I I just I have to do what I'm directed to do by my um superiors. So, let's make it clear once hopefully once and for all. We are your superiors.

Um, if you disagree with us, we need to talk about it at a meeting, but there's no one else to to go to. Now, I know with the budget and other things you deal with the city, understandable. It's not our perview, but related to things like the utilization of the bookstore and the selling of books, that's under this board's purview with with with your help. Period.

Understood.

Yeah. I don't think ever before has there been a clash between volunteers and the administration of this library.

And we must realize that we are all working for one thing for the good of the library uh for the well-being of it.

And I think that perhaps it's time that we establish some parameters. one about the volunteers of how they are treated and what they can do and what they cannot do. The second of all of programs that are presented and how the presenter has the final say but the next to final say can present it but the administrator can decide if this is appropriate for the library.

And uh I think all these things need to be brought out in the open. And I think that the first thing we want to hear from is the bookstore people to see what their view on this is. And then I'd like to hear from each one of you what your view is and how you feel that these problems can be worked out.

Is there a possibility for the administration to share how we work with the friends in advance? the administration I mean yes library administration how we yes she's she's asking we would agree with that thank you I just wanted to discuss the process just so that we have some background and we're all again yes I think that there should be a proposal uh I think that the friends should be

here to hear the proposal and then the trustees can can vote on it after your proposal okay but I'm can I share the process us now of how we're currently working with the friends.

Sure.

Okay.

And then I I I I think we should give the friends a chance to talk too.

Okay. Um and and hash through some of these things that have come up, the gripes between the two of you so that we can talk about it and and work this out. Am I on the right track with with everybody?

Yes.

Yes.

I have to go uh watch last month's episode when I catch up.

But go ahead.

Okay. So, um each time we meet with the friends or the foundation, right?

Because these are both nonprofits we work with in a similar way. The foundation we meet with um less often um and not necessarily specifically for programming. So, it's a little bit different and it occurs less frequently.

uh each time we meet with the nonprofit there's an opportunity for the director to propose items uh for the group where we could use funding assistance and so those items are proposed and then that group will vote whether they wish to fund or not to fund those items. So in many cases of other libraries there's a budget set by a nonprofit uh so the library can better direct the requests

or identify what would be appropriate to propose. So at the current time uh neither one of the groups really has a budget and so as the library it might be helpful if we think of in the future instilling that practice u to help us maybe get more approvals or a little bit more direction towards our requests that might be approved. Uh and so the way that this works now it can complicate

function just a little bit which might be some of the reason of of this. Um so how that works is we create lists uh for the waiting for the next opportunity of a nonprofit meeting. So obviously for the foundation that's less often uh with the friends we assume it will be monthly unless otherwise noted. Sometimes the meetings are cancelled um and then we just wait until the next meeting. So

with the friends group in particular we often have to hold the date for performers uh quite a bit in advance.

This is just how that works with performers. And so we need to have those funds ready to commit uh which isn't always possible within our library budget in order to book those programs at all. And so this means booking in advance if we receive a no for one or more programs when we propose them. We are kind of on the hook for that money.

And so we have to be able to have that funding in our budget in order to actually propose those items um and book them on the calendar. Um sometimes the friends want the the programs about a month in advance and so for our performers it's really hard to make that turnaround. Um we need to have purchase orders ready in advance if we are going to be paying for it if if there is a no

coming. Um so we do risk tarnishing the relationships with our vendors if we book them and then um it's not approved and then we come back and we say sorry we actually can't have that program because they usually dedicate that day to us. Uh and so these are vendors that we want to continue working with in the future. So, if we could be more certain in the future that programs we present

might be approved based on an expectancy of maybe cost um versus maybe personal feelings or beliefs about particular programs. that might help us a lot in being able to direct our requests and make sure that it's a positive feeling, not kind of a guessing game of, you know, what should we bring and and you know, is is 50% of this stuff not going to be approved because again, we are on

the hook for that funding. Um, and so it it largely doesn't give us the ability to go outside of our own budget because we have to be able to step in with our budget and and pay for those programs if we get a no. Um, so when we talk about how much this actually influences our ability to do our jobs in an unbiased way, if you compare last year's library programs offered by the friends compared

to library employee selected programming, um, the friends programming, they oversaw 67% of library programming. So just so you understand how that looks, that is our programming at 67% being filtered through an external organization outside of library employees. And so we don't necessarily want to redistribute our responsibilities of program advisory um externally from our staff because we are

not only highly educated in what we do.

uh we are also looking at the statistical and demographic information and analyzing that for specific uh for our specific area and the patrons we are not reaching. Uh so that's what we use to help us build our program offerings in a way that isn't biased which is of course a library standard in the American Library Association. we are supposed to offer um programs, items an unbiased, uncensored way um not really

filtered down to personal preferences, those kinds of things. And so if 67% of our programming is oversaw by an outside organization that does that has a potential to influence um the way that our programming as a whole is offered to our community, but it's their money. Shouldn't they be able to Yeah. So, um, they have the ultimate say on it. I mean, you you can present to them, but I think that it's their money.

Absolutely. It absolutely is. Um, what I will also say is out of the 11,77 that um was put in for programming for 2025, um Kayla did the work for the grants for $6,915 of that.

So I just want that to be considered and what's your point and known.

So I think that if our staff is doing the work for the funding, it might affect the way that that's viewed. Um because essentially shouldn't be. our staff is is doing the work to receive a large amount of those grants that are being it sounds to me like library workers director and the president of the funding need to get together and work out I can speak for the foundation we've never to my

knowledge turned anything down but I think timeliness is important so if you've got something coming up. Sounds to me like you and the friends need to work out a plan to develop a meeting between the two groups to to work out whatever you need to work out. I think if it's a lastm minute thing, it's not fair to present it to the friends or the foundation.

Yeah. So, we never present last minute things. We we prefer to present them as far in advance as possible. Well, actually Kayla's already booking into fall of next of next year. So, sounds a like me when you had your discussion a minute ago that you were saying you had stuff set and then the friends said, "No, that's a scheduling issue."

No. Oh, no.

Mhm.

Yeah.

A scheduling issue.

Yeah. In other words, so we have to book programs in advance and then if we propose it, but you can't book something that you don't have approval on, right?

And you don't have approval on the monies from the friends. So something needs to be worked out between both groups to make sure and they could be sp foundation has had special meetings when something's coming up rather quickly and I'm sure the friends would be willing as you would I'm sure also to get together and sit down before the commitment is made because the commitment shouldn't be

made until you've got approval for the funding period. A lot of times, um, I mean, again, I don't go to these meetings, but from what's been reported back after Felicia will go to the meeting, they'll say, "We don't want to vote on that today. We want to vote on it when it's closer to the date of the event." Like, well, that's that's foolish.

So, I think that and I have no problem you people telling our 1,000% the friends that it's closer to the date is a foolish reason.

So, we were told to give a to give requests only a month in advance. No, no, no.

That's never been I don't know who told you that.

Never had that.

I've never heard that.

Discuss programs and to benefit the most people. If it only pro like to pretend people spending $500 or $400, it's not useful.

Effective because you want to get as many people involved as possible.

So, so I know we've we've refused when it's a very small group and a large amount of money, but what you just said, No. So moving forward, we do not have to submit requests only a month in advance.

Uh what you really should be doing is submitting each month submitted proposals for far out.

I didn't realize that you understood that you that you thought it was a just a month ahead. It was you know you come to come to our board with proposals. A proposal does not mean a commitment. a proposal is oh we would like these programs that we've researched these are these are right so that's what I was doing months months in you know like three four five months in advance and we

discuss whether or not okay funds would like to friends would like to pay for those then you book once you're committed you've got the money from us committed then book them for the date four or five months out or three months out uh if something came up and it happened before uh before you came Felicia. If something comes up that's very urgent and you needed money and you need something for an urgent thing uh

you contact me and I pull the board. I either telephone them or I email them. I don't text them because you know you know I can't text on my flip phone.

Excuse me one minute. Why don't you two pull your chairs over here so we can Does everybody know Mary Agnes?

Like a smooth.

Unfortunately, yes.

Not from Mary.

Be quiet.

He's my boss at least. Oh, she figured out.

So, I think if that is um a misunderstanding that I misinterpreted then I think that that should work a lot better moving forward.

That's why we should have if I might add one thing shut up. I tend to talk too much but I think the friends would be amendable as the foundation is special meeting or as we do it instead of having a special meeting often times I'm even phone out of the area.

Yeah.

And I can telephone pull people from my little road. That would be helpful. Yep.

Yeah. To be completely honest, it really shouldn't even be necessary because as I said, she she books things seasons in advance. So, I think that that will work out pretty well.

Just let it um if if we're able to do that. Um outside of that, where it comes to the number of participants or the cost of a program, would we be able to kind of have um an average or an area that would be acceptable that we can know so that when we are booking programs, we can book our own programs that maybe fall outside of the criteria of what the fans are looking for?

Yeah. I I think that what we like to do is we like to see them service as many people as possible. So that when something is a small number like five, six, seven, that's really not servicing a wide enough variety of people uh for us to you know invest our money in. uh lectures that are open uh usually, you know, we can't control whether or not five people show up or 10 people show

up, but they have the propensity of filling the room.

Uh as like some of them when we did the UFO when we've done that guy who does UFOs and Jeff Jeff I can never remember his name.

He always fills up the room. Yeah, he fills the room.

Are they real? Uh, I've been at things where I've turned people away when they've reached the count that the fire department will let in the building and I've asked them I and then people if somebody goes to the bathroom somebody will say somebody's left can I come in but they uh so lectures are usually a broader thing. Uh, I would say probably So if there was something like yoga where there's an unlimited amount of

attendees, um, that would be something that would be acceptable next time.

Well, like the yoga classes that are outdoors.

Yes.

Uh, I would say something like that and possibly depending on the price.

Dependence on the price because usually yoga classes fit 15 to 20 is what they, you know, they figure as a maximum class. I'd go by like for yoga, I'd go by like something like what the Y calls a maximum class. Maximum number is 15 in a certain class or 18. So you'd be figuring servicing that many people would be a worthwhile cause.

Where would it be outside here?

Yeah. So they hold it in the tent.

Oh, in the tent. Okay.

So we we held it outside. It was denied by the friends the first time. Um and so we ended up paying for that. Um, and that's why I asked is because in a in a situation like that, I'm wondering if there's a reason why something like that would be denied.

If there's no limitation um of individuals who attend or that's why I think a guideline would be helpful.

Sometimes um I know the lectures have been denied too. I don't know if it's because it seems like oh maybe it's not like a hot enough topic, you know, it's not UFOs. So like that's okay if you don't want like Well, we don't do all UFOs.

No, I know. I know. I'm just using that as an example. Um, but if there's certain topics that you don't want or do want, I know we talked about this at the last meeting, so I don't want to, you know, beat a dead horse, but we talked about like how it was conveyed to me the friends wanted a a medical um, presentation and so we we came with a proposal and then it was denied, which

it's fine. we still had it and obviously it's not a hot topic that draws in 50 people but um you know just kind of knowing I guess having like Felicia said more firm guidelines of like topics you want that you don't want um maybe you should set up a protocol as well as uh Felicia set up a protocol so that you know we can't vote on we can't vote

on yours but we can vote on hers uh of what is acceptable and what is not and how far in advance and what should be included and what your standards are.

I think a budget might be nice, too. Um because we apply for the Rocklin Trust Grant for each summer reading program.

Um I don't know if this was part of the reasoning or not, but last year they only approved half the funding that we asked for. Normally they approve all of it. Um and one of the things, you know, they asked for budgeting information and when I go to the treasurer, he says we don't have a budget. So I literally upload a PDF that says the friends do not have a budget and then I don't know

if they like to see that. They might have questions about like where the money is being spent and so it might be nice to say like here's how much we have to spend on programs. Here's how much for you know internal expenses just kind of a rough budget so that and then that can help us know you know how much do we have to ask for. They already spent you

know say five grand this year. We're not halfway through the year. Maybe we should cut back on what we're asking for. I think it would just help everybody feel on the same page and maybe help the outside grant organization.

There just needs to be more communication. Amen. Between the two of you because isn't it difficult if they're proposing something? How do you know how many people are going to come to something about I don't know diabetes or something?

I don't really look at but when when it comes to things that are limited when it says it is a limited to 10 people.

We don't really bring a lot of those.

Yeah. Well, those those kind of things I find that they often refuse.

I think it's important not to book anything until you get until you get the money the money. You know, you're getting planned in advance.

like if you would if you already know like with the what's going to happen for the summer um you know maybe get the ideas first and see if there's a budget for that from the friends.

Well, now that we know that's a possibility, I think that's that would work from our understanding and again I don't go to the you don't book the stuff until you have the money because you don't have the money with the you know for programming in the city budget.

So we we completely understand that. I think with the new uh with the new way that we can work with the friends that should not be a problem cuz as I said we book way in advance. We do not like doing things last minute. That is not a way that we like to work at all. Um and so it will be it will not be booked if it is not approved. Um so that's that's

not a concern.

Can we move to the feuding issues? I got to leave shortly unfortunately. So yeah, can we I think we got to go in here.

Let's talk about whatever those feuding issues seem to be.

I don't think it's so much as a feud. I think last time um there was a question of maybe um the different incidents that were occurring. So let's let's hear from the the friends.

Let's hear what they have to say, too.

You you you're coming here because you had issues with Well, we asked them to come.

No, but I'm saying let us hear from them.

Yeah.

Well, partly when uh one of the issues was and it but it's been clarified now since Felicia's email that I got after your last uh trustees meeting was she would tell me that there was a problem or that she that someone had complained or there was a problem with the patron or some problem with the bookstore and I would ask what was specific time or shift or did you know which volunteer

and I could never get a specific answer.

It was just that this happened. And then when I went around and I talked to every one of the volunteers on their shift if this had happened and they look at me like shocked like like that deer in the headlights look because I didn't have anything specific except just a generalization.

But then once I got the the full outline, I went and talked to the people that were involved. And in fact at one of our meetings one of trust one of the board members said it must she even admitted that the incident in a parking lot you know she talked about Angie did.

So I talked I talked to them and uh they understand you know and I've also told them proper behavior the way they should behave to a patron everyone should be considered equal as patrons go not discriminatory etc. And then final thing is we do have to have quaries done and the treasurer and I have been working on setting up the Corey site. Everything went in by yesterday. We've set up a site as a nonprofit. And

what's a what is a Corey site?

Cory criminal back investigation.

So you have to have all your volunteers.

That was recommended by the board.

It was just a suggestion, not so much a recommendation. to me you don't have to you know that no one said you have it's a good idea though most organizations do curry checks with anyone that's going to deal with the public it's a good idea to have a church do church is a good example yes yeah school we're just waiting now for the approval you know I got the email

that they got all my stuff I'm just waiting for the email saying they gave me an approval and some kind of a number that I can enter so we can start doing the process processing and the friends uh organization will be paying the $25 per person that we have to pay to get a get a Cy check on them.

Good.

Every time we get a new volunteer, we have to do Yep.

And all my volunteers are willing to sign the affidavit piece that I have to print out that they will that they know is being done on them, but it's just going to take a little time. And if they don't, there's got to be a if they don't agree, they're not going to volunteer. I'm not going to that.

They're gone.

No reason acceptable for to have a curry check done. Really? In the Catholic church, for instance, if you don't want to do the core check, you can't be a volunteer.

I do linens at church. I had to be cory checked. I said deal with children or I I linens.

It's just part of the insurance.

Actually, quick question.

That's why that's in place.

Um, about the the funding for these these programs you had mentioned. I said you said Kayla did $7,000 worth of the I think it was the grant you you said.

Yeah, I think it was 6,000 um 6,900 or something like that.

67, right?

So, my question is, and just for a clarity standpoint, does it have to be submitted by a city employee or can a member of the foundation apply for these grants? Uh it doesn't have to be by a city employee. I do it on behalf of them. I I have to put when I apply on behalf of the foundation or the friends, I put the um the information of the the president.

So I put your information when I apply on the foundation and hers when I apply for the friends and sometimes it needs the signature of the friends. So yeah, the uh women's union woman requires a signature of the uh uh friends president and I I clarified with the women's union that I could do that because I am a member of their board, but they said it was acceptable.

Didn't you say that you had given Mary Agnes the information that she needed about the time and uh the incident and who was the Yes. So I had given say if something happened yesterday this happened yesterday but of course I don't know the employee because I don't have the schedule or access to the individuals who work so that's where there's a lot of missing information um but that we worked out for going forward

too Mary had just sent um us a list of everybody's schedule for the following month so if there is a incident or a report we'll be able to identify who that was. So, I think we're working out some of the issues. You know, I hope everyone feels like progress is Yeah, I think progress is being made and Oh, good. Good. That's the important thing.

And I know I still have really one opening, but we're still looking for somebody. Pat Taylor is my assistant in the bookstore and she's helping to try to find a volunteer for Wednesday afternoons in case any trustee would like to volunteer in the bookstore on Wednesday afternoons. It's a nice experience. Jim, you got I met there. She's there to Okay. There. Are there any other issues that you want to bring?

I had a slight concern about um the materials. I know that um you all were okay with them being sold in the bookstore.

Does it also feel okay to have them being sold on on eBay and sent out to different communities?

Because I I was a little bit concerned when I had heard that that was occurring. And so I just want to make sure that sold on eBay sold if as long as it's the money comes back to the bookstore then the sale is a sale is the way I would look at it.

I mostly was wondering just because before whereas I was saying normally it would go to the residents um it just wouldn't in this case and so why would it have to go to the reference anybody res? Yeah. But um but anybody could come from Tividan and and go to the bookstore.

Um yeah, we have we have people come over purchase if they're visiting in this area.

They come visit the library.

They're visiting this physical library because of the architecture center uh and for the art collection that's in it.

They often stop in amazed at our bookstore uh compared to the bookstore that is at their library that their friends run. They're taking ideas back which I say thank you very much for. Uh and they they purchase stuff from us. So there's really no control. Now can I I'll explain eBay. Yeah. Got the eBay store. One of our volunteers came from Arizona and she had managed and helped manage the eBay the friends of the

library out there eBay bookstore. Uh and she said, "Oh, you have books that are really uh probably you could get more than a dollar for." Because she was volunteering, she volunteers on she's when she gets back from Arizona, she'll be back in May. Uh and she said we could put those and set up an eBay store. So we set up an eBay store uh with uh the treasurer, myself and Elizabeth Dagel

are the three people whose names are on the store. Um she it's listed as a friends of the li friends friends of far public library bookstore is the site and she lists she researches she get books come in she goes through all the books that get donated by various community people and she'll select if there's a particular book that looks like collectors will buy it or it's in demand

and she goes through this stuff daily when she's here she will photograph the book cover. It has to be in good condition. Spine covers front and back pages inside. Post 20 page, usually 20 pages of the book of pictures of the book. List it with eBay. Sets a price that's somewhere in between. And because we are a not forprofit, there is no sales tax charged on the books. So people will go to the nonprofit sites.

We have been averaging anywhere from $150 to $200 or more a month on books that are going and that money is coming back into uh the library.

Um we have to pay postage and we have to pay a small I think it's less than 0.03% of the sale to eBay for a service charge. It's minimal.

It's still a profit and still we make a very we make a large profit on every book that's sold through eBay. So that's what the eBay store is.

So it's definitely organization. That's fine.

It's a branch of f of the friends bookstore.

It's just we have extended it out.

Are there any other issues between the the bookstore and the and the library itself that we want to bring up? Now, I think the only thing that I um that it feels a little bit unresolved for me is when we raised some of the concerns at the meeting the way that it was resolved afterwards. um we had tried to meet in private and so um it wouldn't make individuals feel uncomfortable and then

afterwards as I had experienced when Kayla sat in for me at one of the meetings it became quite unprofessional and then we tried to have another meeting to resolve that um that miscommunication and the behavior there and whereas I was hoping to have a little bit of more of a um an understanding it. I I was being told that I was too sensitive and that our patrons are too sensitive and those

kinds of things. And I just think that I would prefer uh moving forward with a little bit more professionalism and and actually concern for our patrons and our staff and administration in general. If we're sharing concerns, I don't think that sensitivity is a factor uh in in our point of view. It's a matter of professionalism. Um I think being in a meeting and and certain things happening

um I think they call it pseudo hostility. Say uh individuals kind of laughing at you versus with you. Uh it doesn't feel comfortable to work with a group in that way. And so I would I would like for that to not be the case uh in our private meetings going forward.

Can I make one final point before I leave? Even though I said I would shut up. Um, as I want the friends to know as far as we're concerned, the two people sitting there run the library on our behalf and they're the final word. Other than you certainly as members of the friends have a right at any time to come and request a meeting before this board, but other than that,

those two run the library and what they say goes. Unless once again an appeal comes here which is a different story and I think that needs to be enunciated to everyone involved with the friends and or the bookstore.

When you say those two who you're talking these two oh these two I'm sorry and yes I think there should be a standard for volunteerism too. I know there's a there was a problem with the uh bathrooms with the volunteers uh with the parking lot with the volunteers. I think those things should be brought out in the open and discussed. Uh and also the fact that a volunteers's word against a client, a patron's word

is something that needs to be discussed also. There was one particular person I know the most gentle person in the world. Uh and it was her word against a patron out in the parking lot and I think her name needs to be cleared which is Angie.

Uh she claims that she did not yell at anybody out in the parking lot and that uh she just asked them to move their car and the the patron was a little bit abusive to her, but it's one word against the other and uh I think that that should be discussed in I don't think anything uh I think we just reminded that there wasn't reserved parking spots. I don't think there was anything honestly I've stated up.

I have since learned who that patron is and I would fully I have since learned who that patron is which is kind of known to be difficult. Oh really?

And I think again that was that part of the issue wasn't saying um it was just like hey don't like please don't throw your weight around and be like hey I'm a I'm a a volunteer so I get to park here.

And I think it was just like a misunderstanding. And um I think just being able to talk about those things when they come up and address them and and put it to rest is important going forward so that it's not like this built up like thing.

The woman, the way I understand it, the woman was actually taking up two space, right?

All she had to do was move her car a few inches.

Oh yeah. Angie mentioned that she did not um say that she was a friend. So she didn't even say what she was at that point. She just asked, you know, she thought the lady was leaving. And she said, "Well, you're going to be leaving." She goes, "No, I'm having my lunch in the car." She goes, "Oh, it's hard it's hard to find a parking space."

I said, "Do you mind just moving your car over so that we both can fit?" And that's when she didn't want to.

And the person got offended. Yeah.

So Angie just said people would have stopped.

Yeah. And I I think when it was reported to us, the strange people come, it was it just seemed like a culmination in a lot of recent complaints and so we were kind of looking at it as a whole, not so much like, "Oh my gosh, Angie's such a jerk or anything like that was never the intention of bringing that up.

It was just like here's a few things that have happened recently." And I mean we know we've got complaints about ourselves from patrons who would like you know really I mean don't look at the most recent everyone you but um if if um the the reason for bringing up the the way that we wanted that really resolved was just saying you know is it is it possible for you to convey to the volunteers you know just

to please mind the the communication and and be just make sure that we're being professional. We don't want to reprimand individuals. If it comes down to that, then hand that off to a staff member because we have particular protocols.

That's really it. It wasn't intended to become any larger. Um it become it became a little bit larger after that that meeting. I think there was some miscommunications and again I wasn't there to actually um actually speak to any of the miscommunications. I had only heard afterwards and so that's where it became really um it grew.

Okay. Another question is, uh, the volunteers using the bathrooms.

Are you asking if they are?

Yeah. Are they allowed?

I believe they still are. That was a question that was asked.

Which bathrooms? The the employee bathrooms.

So, the employee bathrooms, I'm not certain if they are permitted to use those or not. Uh, they have been using them. they should be using them for it was past practice 12 15 years.

It's been past practice. Um my only concern with that is that that key opens other doors. Um and so it's a little bit of a concern with security, those kinds of things, especially because we have a regular um unlocked bathroom. After some of the concerns were being raised with different people from the staff and from our patrons about different behaviors that were happening, I I had asked if

they could not go into areas where it's staff only areas. Um they had asked Kayla during the meeting if that means bathrooms. I didn't really have a chance to actually jump in and answer that at that meeting because I wasn't there. Um, so and when I was asked, I said I don't know what Felicia's intentions were when she stated this, so I'm not going to answer that on her behalf. Um, yeah.

What what is the harm of having like if someone is volunteering here, they're almost like staff that if they wanted to go to the get a drink of water or have a little snack in the in in the staff area, they're part of the they're volunteering. They're almost like staff just because they're not getting paid.

So I think but they're actually getting paid more. I mean they're they're you know they're given their time and we should you know thank them for what they're doing and then allowing them to if not to give them a key but if they say could I borrow the key just that's a good point to borrow a key we don't have a key to the rest not a separate key not I'm not saying to

give out all these keys because I wouldn't agree with that and and the master key would only be for the library and your no your office yeah no I'm not worried about my office I'm worried about the rest of the staff areas, but also that it does it creates a little bit of confusion with the staff not knowing the faces of individuals when they walk into a break room and they don't know who they're looking at.

Um, why wouldn't the staff know who's here?

You know, you you volunteer and you you walk around, we know who's Well, so I had asked to meet with the volunteers um before they were able to to volunteer in the bookstore and I haven't had an opportunity. We haven't had any new volunteers and the the current ones I haven't been able to set up appointments or Okay. So, so why don't you go when you're here just go into the bookstore and and meet

introduce yourself to them and and meet them.

So, I can absolutely do that. Sometimes it's not staffed. It is kind of it it's a little bit of a hit or a miss. I would really prefer to have an introduction before someone's working in the building and then entering all of these locked areas that we do have security uh concerns about. Um, there's a lot of people in and out of this building.

There's a lot of other individuals of the public that are in and out of areas that have gone into areas that are staffed only if someone leaves the door open. There's certain protocol for certain areas. Um, there's certain items that have been moved in special collections areas when individuals are in certain rooms. There's just a lot of moving parts. Why don't volunteers when they come in every day check in with

either Kayla or Felicia just to check or check in at the front desk to let them know that they're here and they are volunteering in the bookstore so that they're it's on record who they are.

Didn't we discuss that like a lanyard or a visitor pass at some point? We discussed that at one of the meetings. I know I did.

I think I think it was a suggestion for labeling. I think that's it. I think you have right that I remember. Yes.

Oh, plastic.

Did you?

No, we don't. We don't have the plastic volunteer signs, but they uh It'd be a good idea if you did.

That lanyard idea was is a good one. And we do purchase a lot of lanyards.

Okay. Do either of you have any other issues you want to bring up?

How does the staff get into the staff bathroom? individual keys have their own key.

Mary Agnes, do you have any other issues you want to bring up?

No, I just uh if they can use the restrooms, I I had told them to, you know, be polite to the customers who come in. Uh I told them that they could at the time we told them they couldn't use the um staff areas. So, we just, you know, to be on the safe side, we I told them I thought that included the bathrooms, but now that they could get the bathrooms, in order to use the

bathroom, they've always had to ask the reference room librarian for a key.

Well, that's mostly because it's a one person bathroom. It's a one person bathroom.

There's only one key for it, too.

Yeah, there's only one. It's not like everybody has a key.

And they just go use the bathroom and return the key. And a lot of times they don't have a buddy to use the bathroom, but they um you know, so I think asking for a key I don't think we need a key to the bathroom. They can just go and ask someone for a key to it.

Yeah, that would it would risk opening the bathroom on someone if there was another one.

Yeah. Felicia, I got a suggestion. Could you draw up these parameters and we can present them to the friends and give them a copy? So what we would expect from the volunteers and if there are any things that you leave off perhaps the friends could come back to you and ask you to put it back on if it's acceptable if it's not and you can't agree you'll come to come to us

again but I think we should see these parameters and I think we should vote for vote on them.

So that was um there was discussion about a waiver that volunteers might have to sign in advance of volunteering.

Do you think that could kind of be one so we don't have to do two different documents or or are you thinking a different I think well policy for volunteers right is that yeah um exactly well I mean mostly just that they've got to follow the policy as the rest of us. So um but a waiver that they would sign and maybe I can incorporate special um th those those indicators for the friends.

I think that would be fine with me but I don't know how everybody else feels about it.

Makes sense to me.

Makes sense.

Yes.

Less documents.

So everything would be right on the paper. Yes.

What's expected?

Exactly.

And then after it's approved by the trustees, you'd get it to me.

Of course. Yes.

Do you have anything else, Tom?

Tom?

No.

The only thing I can think of with incidences have a form. There's some type of an incidence you put where, the time, the date.

We have an incident log.

I need one to hand to her.

Why? I don't understand.

Do you mean for the if if there's an incident instead of you know if it if it involves one of one of your volunteers? Yes.

But if it's not that's what he wants.

Just the volunteers.

I mean I can submit an email. I'm hoping that there's not so many that we need an I hope there's none. Okay.

I don't think there's many. I don't think there's many either to yourself some of the people that come to the library. It's I mean this this this this person has a lot on her plate.

You knew who the person was in a situation like that. That's to me we know there's difficult people and I think once we um have a chance to know who the volunteers were will are to we will be able to say okay I know so and so I know they wouldn't behave in that manner. It was probably a a patron you know being disgruntled or something. the incident in the parking lot

if we know who the person is and we know they in essence cause trouble.

So, we do try to treat everyone equal.

So, I will I I will say that I don't really agree there. I I think that we just report the incidents as we hear them as they're reported to our staff.

Um I don't want to make general assumptions about members of the public.

So, we will just report the incidents as they are reported and then that will go to Mary Agnes.

Yeah. And then you can have a chance talk to volunteers and find out the story and tell them, you know, if it happens too many times, you're out of here.

Anything else between that you want to bring up?

Anything else you two want to bring up, Mary Agnes?

Uh, no. I think that's everything.

Just remember, we're working towards one goal, the goodness of this library, the health of the library, and to move it forward. uh to be innovative and uh to use the funds properly and uh I think that would be good. Does anybody have anything to add?

Well, one other thing is I besides just programming the friends also do things that the library might need. Uh so in the past we've bought bookcases, we've bought furniture for the youth room, we we've done flooring projects, we bought chairs for different parts of the Felicia would come to you if Felicia would come to you and ask you for those things. That would be fine.

I I will I will never ask after the fact. Um I normally and I normally separate those things because the foundation often they do some of them but sometimes if there's something yeah they do the foundation does more of that but occasionally there's something that's a smaller priced item that friendses downstairs.

Yeah the bookcases the the glass showcases we did some of those that the we did also right all the bookshelves in the bookstore.

Yeah, the bookstore. Everything in the the bookshelves in the bookstore we purchased in the all the furniture we bought at the where hotel used to be.

Okay, without belaboring this, are we ready to move on?

Okay, very thank you both for coming.

Oh, you're welcome.

Okay, Felicia, I think that I hope you feel better about all this.

I feel a lot better.

Good. You feel better?

Good.

Yeah. I'll just remember you're a team. Just remember that.

Remember to call me.

I feel great.

Okay. We're going to move on to the rest of our meeting. Okay.

I don't Is there Is there anything else?

Well, there was the uh the library administrator's report.

Do you still you have Did everybody get it and read it?

It's pretty I don't think we have to go through it if everybody has it.

No. Um, if you want, the only thing that I was going to mention that I didn't already about library construction was that we had a really great uh we had a really great program start and it's called community resource fair. So, we have a community resource day that Joe um, our resource engagement librarian is offering and also with Diana Falner from Reference and we're bringing a lot of

community partnerships together to offer a lot of whole a lot of different things um to individuals who might need it. I think it's going really really well.

We've had a whole lot of interest. So much so that we might actually try to do this in the parks because there's so many different um organizations that want to work with us towards this that we might need to move outside because there's a whole lot of people. We might not have a lot of space in here. But um but yeah, it I'm really excited about that. And that's the only other thing

outside of construction, those kinds of things um from my administrator's report.

And that sounds wonderful to me.

I had a question about the treasures report. This one here, that's a friend that that should be friends. This was the annual meeting.

Yeah. So, just because we were referring to some of the Where did that money come from?

The funding.

Nobody donated that money to a retirement party.

I Well, we paid for it from the friend's budget.

So, it was just in So, you had something to reference the check.

Maybe that's why he wrote the check cuz you put the money in and then he wrote the check. So, we put mine out. So, that's I didn't see that. Okay.

Okay. What about the statistics?

Everybody got a copy of Okay. You read it at your leisure. If you have any questions, you'll ask Kayla about it.

And there's Is there any other business that you'd like to bring?

Have a question. But the uh last uh meeting we had uh you had suggested to um uh for the newsletter that you could put uh something about that you know you need volunteers for the bookstore or um or book donations and you would he asked if you can put it in the newsletter uh for April but you didn't include that in the newsletter is already out for April.

Do you remember?

We can put it in the next one. I think we've been doing a whole lot. So, um, do you remember him asking you that feeling wrote down the I was asked not to put it in the April one. We had a lot of other updates to include. So, um, if Felic is okay with it, I can put it little line there looking for volunteers, you know, or you know, another thing,

you know, just say the friends are looking for volunteers at the bookstore or any donations, any general used books. Of course, another thing you could put in there, you didn't have Joe's photo group in there.

So, I don't I tend to prioritize putting the oneoff programs rather than the recurring programs. Um, and I alternate which programs I put in there. So, I because it's every every last Wednesday that he does this program and it's a very good program.

I mean, if you look at our calendar of events, I can't put every single event um that we have in the newsletter, but I do always link to the full calendar and then like I said, I'll swap out which ones I include. I have one question.

And by the way, he is a gem.

He's really good, Joe. Yeah, a real gem. He's a good man.

I just have one question on the elevator for up there. No label for the bookstores.

You know how on the on the elevator there's a thing for each.

You can print the little sticky label for like upper level, main level. I thought it inside the elevator when you're going up for you. It tells everything, but it doesn't say anything about the bookstore.

No, I thought it did. I don't usually take the elevator though, so I didn't.

Yeah, there's three things about the reference room cuz you know where it is.

Um, reference room.

Is that an engraved plaque that's there?

Like a They're new. They're new.

Anything new, did he?

Is it typed or is it typed or actually I don't know. I I just noticed some or just added somehow.

Yeah, but it doesn't say trophies for the book.

I thought I actually thought it did. I thought there was a paper that that had it, but um I think the it's a flyer on the side, but where where everything's listed on the buttons, there's nothing for bookstore.

just it's a minor thing but I was just like it should be something make sure if and when you solicit for these volunteers but sub subject to glory check that we can filter out and create is there anything else that anybody would like to bring up I'll take a motion for adjournment I make a motion to adjourn second second okay all in favor any opposed that passed