5.19.2026 Historical Commission

Good evening. I'm Richard Mancini, chair of the historical commission for the city of Fall River. It is Tuesday, May 19th of 2006, and we are meeting at one government center on the first floor in the hearing room. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings

or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Our recording clerk this evening is Felicia. She's sitting on my left. This meeting is also being televised and recorded by Greg Salvador of the Floor River Government TV out sitting in the back. Present this evening are commissioners co-chair Jonathan Lemur Commissioner Connie Soul,

Commissioner Joyce Rodri, Commissioner Carolyn Orin, and gee, I guess Ryan Commissioner Ryan Klein is uh he didn't call so he's I'm sure he'll he probably a little late.

Not inclined.

Not here today. Not inclined.

And I chair Rick Manceni. Again, our clerk here on my left is Felicia Parker.

We have one vacancy at this point.

Felicia, have all petitions been properly advertised and all interested parties been notified in accordance with the rules and regulations of the historical commission for the city of Fall River?

Yes.

I hereby declare Tuesday, May 19th, the regularly scheduled meeting of the historical commission for the city of Fall River open for business and shall resume before us.

Okay.

the agenda for this evening.

I guess uh we read the open meeting law and I'll now take a roll call. Connie Connie Soul present.

Jonathan Lima present.

Jarice Rodri.

Caroline Aubin present.

And Rick Manceni present.

Could I get an approval of the minutes of the April 21st?

I'll make a motion to approve the April 21st minutes.

Second.

Yeah, we have a first and a second. Do we have a quick roll call? Connie?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick? Yes. Citizens input? Nope. I don't see anyone here. Uh, we did get a notice of intent to demolish. You have a copy. Uh, 478 Buffington Street. It was requested by Lynwood Construction. Uh, they received a letter of non-applicability for the demolition of a garage. Uh the property was a twostar story garage with a loft. Really a nice nice building. A shame to see it come

down. Uh but it's not on the significant structures nor the state nor the national register. So uh it not non-applicable letter was sent out.

Uh correspondence uh and this was ongoing. Uh we received a request from the Dery Mills owner for information regarding 326 Pleasant Street. Uh and she this they're purchasing the building across the street. It uh she was concerned about the historic nature of the building. Uh this building in its former life was a fuel station and then a motorcycle repair business. Uh it is not listed on

the significant structures list nor the state or national register. So uh she is getting a letter of non-applicability.

That should be done up tomorrow.

Um the new business we're going to talk right now about the 715 High Street and John Catrell is here. Would you introduce yourself? What's your address?

My name is Jonathan Katrol. I own and operate Catrol Brothers in Tibetan, Rhode Island at 35 Main Road.

Okay. And I guess what we have before us is a repair of a fire escape on a 40 seat piece of property located at 715 High Street. Could you sort of describe what going to be done on the building?

We have uh put out an estimate to repair which is basically to remove what's there and replace it in kind at the existing placement that it's in now.

So the structure will not change visibly or any aesthetic that it has now.

I lost a little bit. Okay, there we go.

Go ahead. Carry on.

Uh the structure is going to be built from pressuret treated hard southern yellow pine.

Um we're using a 4x6 support which will that will replace a 2x4 support that is just now 4x6 is more than sufficient. um that'll be placed on a uh 2x6 ledger up against the house for strength. We don't want to use just the sheathing to support that. Um having that framing member to sit on will ensure that you're not going to have any pressure on the wall itself or cause uh any damage to the wall. Mhm.

Our ballast stride system is a 2x two which dimensionally is actually one by a one and a half by one and 1/2. There's always a a difference in the uh size of the material. They call it a 2x two. I have been asked um by um Eugene at the building department to create a 36-in high ballastrade. So that's what I have in the plant that is residential required height. Um other than that we

going to copy this to the T. There is an access window that is well above the code for um the egress which is 480 square ft um or excuse me 4 and u 80 square in. Um, we have at minimum 627, so we're well above that requirement. And it's a it's a good size opening. I was able to slip through it without a problem. It's a sliding window, so there's no opening. You don't

have to nothing splits. It's one three pane window and it slides into the wall.

We're going to try to increase the the width or we're trying to create an opening that is complete within the frame because right now the the rail on one side sticks out. That's why I potentially could have 690 if that window opened all the way. I don't.

We're going to dig into the wall to see what's holding it up. Could be a bird's nest, could be insulation, but uh minimally at 480 uh with the window. no change in the window as exists now at 627.

So I'm well within that that requirement.

Other than that, it's a very straightforward rebuild.

Are there any questions from the board?

I do have a question actually. I know you're using pressuret treated, but I'm wondering why aren't you going like for cedar or another hardwood or a uh paintable composite?

Um when I spoke to uh the building department um the information that I received was that they want to stay with a wood product. So the the composite material doesn't have enough structural strength to to support this type of um um viruscape. You could trim it, but it's a white product. You'd have to paint it.

We are not contracting with Mr. Driscoll to paint. We're just contracting to build it. So, pressuret treated is paintable. After several warm seasons um this fall, it could be painted as it would be dried out. The weather will dry that out. It'll take paint love, you know, nicely. It'll be a lovely job. Um, we could switch our uh framing product to a Douglas fur, which is still a good exterior

um grade wood that is paintable right from the get if Mr. Driscoll wants to paint it. So, um I also I am not a big fan of composite, especially trim. It shrinks and contracts significantly.

Uh I just I guess you could say I'm more of a purist when it comes to these types of finishes and uh I I don't recommend it. I will provide it to a customer that asks for it, but I'm not a aluminum.

I my preference would be like a cedar or for a hard wood that would, you know, um uh be um uh remain like it avoids rot, right? So when you use a hard wood, so that's my choice. That would be my preference. I just I am not thrilled with pressuret treated wood. That's just Well, pressure press pressure treated is a hard southern yellow pine. It is paintable. It is an exterior grade wood.

Now Doug fur or Douglas fur um doesn't have to be treated. It has a high rot resistant quality as an exterior finish.

You know, we use that on decks quite a bit. and it comes in dimensional sized lumber. I would have to discuss that with Ed. Um it's probably a couple of price points more than a pressuret treated product, but it certainly would do the kind of job that you're mentioning right now.

And it's eco-friendly.

It is. It there's no pressure treating to it. The only pressure was mother nature. So yeah.

No, I I understand that.

I'm sure Mr. Driscoll would be more than happy to accommodate Doug fur.

Okay.

At the recommendation of the board.

Any other questions? I have a few.

What is what's the decking going to be sustained with? The decking going to be southern pine also or the entire structure right now is quoted for the southern yellow pine. The pressure including the decking. So it's not it's not a PTO. That's no tracks.

Correct. There's no no um composite type material in this at all whatsoever.

Okay. And then I noticed on the two corner pieces there is a little cap I guess and those will be it doesn't show on the drawing but I'm sure that's going to be replicated.

The design is to um like exchange. So if there's post cap on it we missed it. it will be there and if it's approved by the board, if you included that with any other changes you might have, we will adhere to whatever the board decides.

And then uh you you're going to be putting ballisters in there. Is there a is there a spacing? Is this going to be a larger spacing? Is it going to be 2 in?

The spacing that is required for us with the ballast straits is three inches between centers.

So the center of each ballastrade is 3 in apart. So it's a very narrow space that's designed for small heads of body parts to not slip through the crack.

Okay. Uh yes, that's code.

Well, set of stairs is code for fire also, but this is a 40C building. So there are things that you can do that that are more uh uh more of a companion to a 40C structure, you know. So uh does does anyone have a concern with the ballast the width?

I believe that if I'm correct the code is what the code says no more than three inch spacing. You have three in from center center to center center the center line of all ballast strains have to be three inches apart.

Okay. Good. All right. Uh talk a little bit about the ladder that's going uh the ladder is going to be put against the wall.

Yes.

Okay. Uh is it going to be against the wall or are you going to have brackets?

Is it the lad? The ladder will be offset slightly from the siding. I don't want the full uh ladder sides to sit on the siding.

Correct.

That's just going to create a moisture issue. So, we will offset that with blocking minimally.

Uh and so what would that give you for a toe space between run of the ladder and the building? You need a sufficient space there to put your feet in your toes.

Well, you're going to your rail for the ladder will have a certain depth, right?

Um, and I believe that is going to be a 4x4 and then we're going to mount our wrong on that. So, that that should suffice and give us approximately 5 1/2 to 6 in.

I can check with Eugene if he wants more.

Yeah. But I I I think I think what we'd be looking for is at least get it some sort of a 2-in bracket to pull that away from the building. Um just for you got to keep a little safety in mind. Also, well, proper footing is critical and being off the building is, you know, instrumental in preventing rot. So we can under the advice of the board make it whatever the space needs to be for

that protection.

Okay. And and we can check verify uh with the building department uh the the rail the present rail you're showing at 36 presently. That's a request of the building department.

Okay. I've spoken uh to Eugene just in the last two days i.e. this project and uh I mentioned to him that that's rather high when you look at what's existing there now which is probably what 24 in or so and u he said what would you do I so I he came up with a compromise of he thought 30 in would satisfy the requirements so let's look at putting no higher than 30in railing on there

that can be accomplished and I wouldn't want to see that railing come up over the rake line of the roof. You know, we want to keep things exactly in some type of lineal visual Yes.

effect.

Yes. And that's and bringing it down, I think, is going to take care of a lot of that. Uh the other question I had was when you when you're leaving that window and you're going out on the porch deck or on the fire escape deck, what's what's the elevation of the deck to the building or to the window? Is it going to be approximately seven six 15 in? I would say

you're going to be from the bottom of the window. You're going to go down 15 in approximately. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's might be a I I think that might be an issue with the building department also. So we can check.

But that's how it is right now, right?

Yeah. Roughly.

If you make that go higher, that railing is going to go higher.

All right. We'll we can check with the building department and make sure that it's it's Yeah. If there's a fire, you're going to run out.

15 in is nothing.

Yeah.

Well, you can't run out. You got to crawl out on your belly. You know, you have to crawl out on You're going to crawl fast.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, if you think of the expanse of your arm Yeah.

as a table leg, that's significantly more than 15 inches. And that's okay.

Probably to their benefit. They don't have to have their arm totally outstretched, but Eugene would be able to assist us there. I know.

Yes. Yes. And I I know there was a discussion on heights as not we you don't want it.

But it's listed as a repair, not a replacement. Correct.

Correct. Yes. Yes.

So, yes.

Let's just keep it.

Yeah. Yeah.

Okay.

Any further questions?

Okay.

Does someone want to make a motion for or against?

I'd like to make a motion to approve it.

Um I would also like you to consider um talking to Mr. Driscoll about switching the wood, but if if he can't or doesn't want to, I'm amendable to it staying.

I could u very easily let Mr. Drisco will know that um we find that uh a Douglas fur is just as sustainable and as easily painted as pressuret treated and more immediately than pressuret treated.

Um and even without it being painted if it's oil rubbed or whatever he wants to do to it looks amazing.

It it is um it is a a wood product that sustains exterior use and the kind of weather that we have here. It's a great exterior product.

So, that's my motion.

Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second?

I'll second.

Okay, we have a motion and a second.

We'll do a roll call. Connie, yes.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick Mansena. Yes.

Looks like the project's a go.

Thank you.

And you uh the letter I will get out to you. I'm Thursday is tied right up.

Tomorrow I will check with the building department and just review a few of these things and sometime Friday you will get an email uh regarding the project. But it's it's a goal.

That's wonderful.

Thank you for showing.

I look forward to seeing the work.

Thank you so much.

Oh, my pleasure. Thank you.

It's always nice that we take care of what's been here for the longest time.

Come again.

Well, I I like to I love what I do. It's not hard and I appreciate the input that you get.

Okay, moving on.

the uh the certified local government.

Uh we have to uh shame on me. I didn't realize that we have to get an annual report in order to keep the certification.

Yeah. Right. And it's still good. We're still certified. We don't want to lose that certification. So, uh Felicia is working on the report. She did uh present a preliminary report. I reviewed it. It is I'll use the term Jonathan.

What term am I going to use? Marvelous.

It's marvelous. Absolutely.

So, Felicia is going to modify and and massage it a little bit and I'm sure we will have a copy. Once we get the copy, you'll get an email and if I have the permission, I'll send the copy right out.

Send it right away.

Yeah. Send it out to Michael Stein.

Steinit. Good.

Okay.

Good. Yeah, that was a shocker when I discovered that. And we didn't it didn't he didn't get one last year on this either. So, all right. For A's and B's, the funding allocation for the CPC for further in-depth investigation of the bio reserve historic area. It has been approved by the CPC and approved by the city council. So, the money is now available. and Sandy Dennis who is the

administrator for the CPC is writing up and getting all the documents together.

Uh and that'll that should be moving along very shortly. Uh the city will be running that uh it'll be running out of the water department. Uh there's going to be an item four is the bio reserve update on the Native American land acquisition.

Uh that's all sort of hand in hand because this form A and B's uh we're going to look at the uh home on 275 Indian Town Road which is part of the original tribal the only tribal home that's left. The Perry families uh now occupy that home. Uh and I guess the Paige tribe also occupies some of the land and they they use the land I guess. uh and the the

latest is that the state this has been in dispute for years and years and years. There originally I'll try and give you the story very put it in a little synopsis format but there were originally 200 acres of land out there.

There were some on the east side of the Indian town road and some on the west.

What happened is the city of for wanted to buy a reserve and protect the wershed and they purchased the remnant domain 100 acres on the west side of Indiantown Road which left the remaining 100 acres but no one really has title to that even to this day you cannot find title it it's it's Native American land but I don't believe it's to the best of my knowledge at this point it has not been

assigned to any given tribe. Okay. Uh and uh so uh with the part of the study, the A and the B's, they're going to do a study on on the home because it is not on the significant structures list, nor is nor is it on the Massachusetts nor national historic register. So that that well should be and and it qualifies for the three of them. So, uh, they're going to work on that, get that moving, and

they're also going to dwell very, very deeply into, uh, there there are through Mike Levasio when the first phase was done, they discovered a potential seven burial mounds out there. So, it might not be or might be. I mean, they would never disturb them, but they would go out, investigate, look at the sites and and see how how they how they fare with the land and is it a possibility. Not

that anything's going to be disturbed because that's the last thing you want to do. And that's one of the reasons that we're looking to do this work and and get all of these forms completed so that they can get registered and the land and those sites are protected, you know. So, it's a it's I I've been getting somewhat involved in all of this and and really it's exciting. It's it's good. Good.

Can I have to ask you, Mr. Chairman, who would be doing this investigation?

It's funded. You said it's a funded allocation approved by the city council.

Who moves this forward?

The city, the water department will be getting the funding officially.

Okay. and and that's being worked on as we speak. Okay. It'll take another two or three weeks to get it through finance and then it will go out for bid and the the it was PL public laboratories did that original first portion the part A of the of the studies. the part B, whoever is the award.

Well, the last I heard, which was quite a while ago, was that um there was supposed to be a Zoom meeting or some kind of a remote meeting uh with the Picassa tribes and Carol Fiola.

But what was reported after that was that there were technical difficulties and that meeting never happened.

So somewhere in there um maybe the water department wants to look into that. Maybe maybe that's a legitimate question that the state um or at least Carol Fiola might have some involvement in this in her district.

Well, I guess at this point the state is no longer involved in that 100 acres.

It's been turned over to the Native Americans.

And that's a good point. Um but well exactly the right because the that intent at that time was that the Picassids needed to get into the burial grounds of their ancestors and they couldn't get into the burial grounds because they didn't have the authority and there were hikers crossing into their property. So there's a lot of discussion there on who has the rights to that property.

Yep. Yes.

Well, hopefully when this second phase gets accomplished, we're going to know a lot more and hopefully the state will be well, the state doesn't own it anymore, but you know, the Native Americans might be proceeding a little more with this.

Well, can we get a followup on that? Can we get a followup from the water department?

Um, oh, sure. Oh, yes, definitely. We'll we'll give you I'll try and get a monthly update on this part two.

Yeah, because I mean this is going on 300 years. Might it might be time to uh fix it.

Yeah, I hope so.

Okay, any other questions? No. All right. Um, let's see. Oh, we received the draft form of correspondence from PL and I actually today uh there's a tentative meeting on Friday. It'll be a Zoom meeting uh at 11:30 in the morning.

So, are there any members that would probably just like to sit in and listen into a Zoom meeting? We have to be cautioned that it isn't this Friday 11 at 11:30. attorney, but we have to keep the uh keep it down to three people because of So, okay, if anyone is interested, you know, give me a call, let me know and I'll get you the Zoom and and you can sit in and and listen

into to what's going to go on there. And it's it's going to be uh primarily between uh Alex uh Sylvia of the Preservation Society and myself as a representative from historic. Uh but I'm sure we're going to get anyone from the preservation society or anyone from the historic as long as we don't I will try to attend.

Yeah. As long as we don't get to a a meeting. We don't want to get four or more people and we'll have a meeting. We got to be cautious.

I could attend as the preservation society. Okay, good. Perfect.

If others want to.

All right. Perfect.

Okay. Um, you also have a draft report of that PL report, so you can review it, get yourself familiar with it, get any questions. Do you have any questions at this point regarding this report?

No.

Okay.

Well, we'll move along.

It's moving along.

Yeah. All right. the uh seven letters of support that were asked for at the April 21st meeting, they were all developed and sent as requested. Uh so that was all taken care of. uh the Bank Street Armory uh uh we've been documenting that uh utilizing the certified legal government funding sources which is the uh uh M PF of funding and uh we've been working with the Mass Historical Commission with that. There's

been a tremendous amount of work. Uh you have a a print out here. You received it in the mail in your email, but you also have a hard copy here of everything what that went to the state. This is what the state is looking at. It's quite a a very very comprehensive document. We have to give credit where credit is due. The majority of this work was by the preservation society. Alex went in there

and and he's an excellent writer. He did all of the corresp all of the verbiage in here. Really good.

Just have a question on this. This is an extraordinarily important document. It's well done. Uh is it possible to get the um preservation society to put this online?

U do they keep a list of all of their documents um of the properties that they're looking at? I know they have an annual list of properties that are in danger.

So I'm wondering if they keep that online so that we can go back and look at the properties that are in danger.

I can I can speak to Alex.

And and see what this is important because um if it's online, I can also bring it to the attention of the Dery Alumni Association.

Okay.

Because this is part of not only the history of Fall River, but the athletic department that has been sent to you via email. So you have that on your email that that identical package.

Excellent. Well done. And and there's no reason why you do not have you could share that if you like. Not a not a concern. So, you know, at any time that you feel you want to share it, go right ahead.

Oh, yeah.

Okay.

Any questions uh on the armory? That that's moving along very well. Uh a little added information is that there have been meetings with the city and Alo A aloe vera is been wrapped right up into the project with us. Uh there's additional funding that they're looking for. So uh it's it is moving. Uh and I just was strange. which I get these emails always on the day of the meeting. But um I did get some

correspondence that there was a museum that was interested in the Omry number two months back and I guess last year.

Yeah. And and I guess the cost of remodeling was a little high for them plus was rather big size of the facility. Uh so they backed out but uh they supplied what documents that they had done uh and uh we're getting those documents so that the the team the preservation society historical commission team as we're putting this together and with the city with Alivera we're going to move forward with a lot

of documents that are already done with cost and and concerns with the building.

It's good.

They're from New York, weren't they?

They were from New York. Yes.

Standups, I believe, right?

Coins.

Coins.

Any questions? No. Okay. Uh, Central Fire Station, uh, there is a meeting tomorrow, a Zoom meeting at 11:30, uh, over the Central Fire Station. just would give us an update. Uh the I I don't hold me to this, but the front Bedford Street side was due to be uh sent out for bids. Uh proposals were sent out. I don't think the bids are in at this point, but they're due in very

shortly. But that's for the front and that that is uh Civitech has got that project. But there's a second H group that's the architects for the remaining portion and the interior of the building.

Yeah. Why is that?

Why is there two different architectural companies doing the front and the side?

I have no idea.

It makes no sense. And I think we had when they were here asking uh for approval of the windows and such, we asked them about that. I don't recall an answer.

like the replacement doors that they put on the side on Troy Street side are horrendous. They're like um a hot pink color and they're already like all they just look terrible.

It's like the insight to get it done right the first time, you know, just like I don't understand what happened.

Yeah, we're going to have some input at this point. Um the when AG got moving along and Al Olivera requested that the historic commission get involved which we should because there's there's monies federal monies involved there. Uh and uh they they did call I had one short meeting it lasted about 15 minutes I guess and I was just listening to what was going on. Now, this is a a more formal meeting uh and

I'll have a better update after tomorrow.

So, who is the other group?

It's it's an AG group. A AG group is the name of the concern and they're the ones that came before us. Is that for the windows?

I don't know. I don't remember the name of the group. I have to look back at the minutes, but I know that they were here.

Yes.

Yeah, something to see the funings of both projects. They weren't one in the same it just seems odd, you know, that like uh it's not the same person, right?

What if they have different ideas?

Unfortunately, that's not our best work.

The city opted to go with two different architects.

It's like having a contractor do the front of your house and somebody else do the side of your house. Like precisely.

Okay.

Any further discussions?

They're redoing the driveway.

Yes.

All right.

Okay. Uh the next item five is the little theater. I'll just give you a little more update. It appears that uh the shingles will be slate.

Yes, they are. And I guess it's been contracted out. Uh and they're just getting the contractor either has or or is getting them shortly. the slate shingles.

Good.

All right. And once he gets those, he's going to he his proposal is to get in there June, the month of June, and finish off the the roof.

Do you know the company? Is it Vandal?

Uh boy, you know, at the moment it but the name is very familiar. It might be.

Okay.

You know, it might be. They they are a slate roof company.

Local, right? A local.

Yes. Yeah. They're out of New Bedford.

Is it adopt secom?

Maybe.

Yeah. Yeah. I it avoids me at this point, but uh I hear you. I think it is.

I know that the preservation society made a a suggestion for that company.

Okay. All right. And they took your lead and it's proven it's proven very very uh enlightening for everyone. It's very good. Thank you.

Good.

Okay. Any other questions? Any new business that anyone wants to bring up?

Hey, if you want to get on these two meetings that we're going to have as long as we don't have uh and Connie, you you could get in on as if it Yeah.

preservation. Yes.

Right. So, we could we could have myself and two other members if you're interested in I I'll reach out to you. Let me check my schedule and make sure I'm clear on Friday. Tomorrow not, but Friday.

Okay, great. All righty. The next meeting uh is th uh Tuesday on June the 16th.

Uh is there a motion to adjourn?

Make a motion to adjurnn.

Okay, we will at 6:38 p.m.

All right. 6:38 p.m. on May the 19th.

Do I have a roll call?

Connie, yes.

Jonathan Lima. Yes.

Joyce.

Joyce, yes. Carolyn, yes.

And Rick Mancini, yes. Have a good evening. Thank you.