The joint meeting of the Historical Commission and Historic District Commission on May 24th, 2022, began with roll calls and the unanimous decision to table the minutes from February and March to the next meeting due to prior distribution issues. The commissions also unanimously voted to table a request for window replacement at 572 High Street and a proposed residential facility at 206 Globe Mills Avenue, as the respective applicants did not attend or provide sufficient details. A letter of thanks was read from Jim and Jean Padilla, expressing gratitude for the commission's support in securing Community Preservation Committee (CPC) funds for window replacement at their historic property at 3656 Water Street, a project that was successfully approved. A significant portion of the meeting focused on the ongoing merger of the two commissions, which was on the City Council's agenda for a second reading that evening. Members expressed optimism about operating as a single, more efficient committee. The commissions reviewed and unanimously approved three sections of the preservation guidelines—Site Elements, Additions and New Construction, and Introduction—to be forwarded to the consultant, Dominique. Discussions also covered the stalled demolition of three houses at 317 Hanover Street by South Coast Health, the need for a process to manage disaster-related damage in the historic district following a recent fire on High Street, and persistent issues with neglected properties at the corner of Rock and French and 258-260 Prospect Street. Members voiced frustration over the lack of consistent city support in enforcing ordinances and resolved to seek guidance from the Massachusetts Historical Commission. The meeting concluded with a unanimous vote to adjourn both commissions at 7:27 p.m.
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good evening everyone and welcome to the joint meeting of the historical commission and the historic district commission it is tuesday may 24th and right now it's 603 pm pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are
0:26being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible so i will do two separate role calls i will do first the roll call for the historical commission rick mancini here connie seoul here joyce rodriguez here kristen cantera oliveira here everyone is present and are is it i'm sorry everyone is attending remotely by zoom we are missing reuben um amaral this evening
1:03and we still have two open seats on the historical commission and next will be the historic district commission uh rich mancini yeah connie seoul here jason bouchard naraki here kristen cantera oliveira here present again everyone is attending remotely by zoom and we do have three open seats on the historic district commission so next up are the minutes uh first of all it would be the minutes from february 15th
1:40uh 2022 but unfortunately i forgot to send all the minutes i apologize for that so if i can get a motion we can do those next month sure i'll make a motion that we uh gloss over the minutes of the meeting at this minutes at this meeting and uh uh reconvene with them in june okay do you want to is that for the minutes both march and uh february and march correct yes that'll
2:09give us a chance to review them and be ready to comment in june okay so i have a motion do i have a second uh i'll second that motion okay so let me do roll call vote on that separately rick mancini yes connie seoul joyce rogex yes kristen cantora oliver yes and that's for historical commission and then for the district commission uh richard mancini yes connie soul yes jason bouchard naraki
2:40yes kristen cantera aloe vera yes so the minutes will be moved to the next agenda uh so citizen input i did not receive any and i don't see anybody here moving on notice of intent to demolish structure we did get a notice for uh 1560 meridian street for a demo it was a tiny little ranch house it was not on the register so i did send a notice to the building department saying
3:15that it was not on the register correspondence so i received a request and i did send it to everyone for 572 high street and they are looking to remove and install 25 new windows this is a this is a building that's in the historic district commission i did send them a zoom link i told them when we were meeting and i did not hear back from them i used
3:49the email that they had sent to me did not hear back from them so um as of right now there's there's nothing really we can do because the the application was very generic um it was not specific didn't give any details so we will need them here before we can so now does the building is the building department aware of this particular home yes they put a hold on yes destruction yes they have
4:22okay yep they know i i had already told kerry that nothing can be done until they come before us so they are aware um so can i get a motion to table this i'll make a motion to table this 572 high street to next month okay so i have a motion can i get a second a second okay motion and a second so this is for the district commission right now voting richard mancini yes connie show
4:58yes and kristen cantora aloe vera yes so we will table that until the next meeting and that's 572 high street so next up um was and this is for the historical commission 206 globe mills avenue they have a proposed residential facility plans and i know i did send that to everyone and again they were invited to be here i did not hear back from them um but i was told that before they were
5:31going to do anything and i'm not sure that they did go yet before them it was supposed to go before the site plan review committee um i'm not sure if that if that did happen or not he was supposed to let me know after that happened and again as i said i didn't hear from them so um this is another one that we will need to table until the next meeting
5:54so if i can get a motion from the historical commission to people just a question uh they realize that that those properties being mills have some historic significance and and that they need to come before us oh they do know they they were coming before us for a letter of support to do this they're going for tax credits and greens okay all right i'll make a motion that we place this on whole until the june meeting
6:29okay so i have a motion to table it until june do i have a second a second okay motion in a second so vote for the historical commission richard mancini yes connie sewell yes joyce rogers yes and kristen cantara aloe vera yes so motion passes it will be tabled till the next meeting uh next up we received a letter of thanks from jim and jean padilla regarding 3656 water street and i am going to
7:08uh read that to you let me just just find it here so this was to the historical commission for massachusetts dated may 2nd regarding 3656 3656 water street cpc application dear christian it is with our utmost thanks and appreciation we thank you for your support regarding our request for this year's cpc funds to replace the windows on this historic property we are thrilled to announce that this project
7:43was recently approved by our city's cpc committee which is the community preservation committee this building one so strong with history will now be able to boast its regained beauty with a facade that will preserve its historic value for all to appreciate along with the exciting and ever-growing improvements to our beautiful waterfront we could not be more grateful to the residents and stakeholders in our fall
8:08river most sincerely jim and jean padilla azar padilla realty trust so um as you remember we did give them a letter of support for their cpc project for water street and it did pass so they are very grateful to us and we are very happy that that they are getting funding very nice yes yeah so next up on the agenda is one lewiston street um we had gotten a request because they are doing some interior
8:49work and changing the windows which really doesn't fall under our purview because it's not in the historic district commission and they're not demoing anything um so i just sent a letter saying that we had no purview over that because it's not in the district and they're not doing any kind of demo so is that the um i think it's the mill the ch i think it's the chase mill on
9:16or no maybe not the cheese mill on um let's use for uhaul or no i don't remember which one it is it's one lewiston okay i don't remember the name of it okay just curious yeah okay okay um let's see old business so the merger of the historical commission in the historic district commission so i i am very happy to say that it finally uh thanks to jason doing a lot of poking
9:52and frauding and and you know the behind-the-scenes work we did go before the um the ordinance committee and the ordinance committee did send it down to the city council for first reading and it was approved for first reading and as we speak now it is sitting on the city council agenda for second reading this evening very exciting yes very very exciting so uh jason i i don't know if you had a chance to
10:26talk with him or anything um what happens next um i think it just needs to go through first and second and then it's i believe um i think they just need to vote it in and i think that's it okay because that's what it looked like when i looked at the agenda and it had it on there for a second reading and then something at the bottom about i don't know if it was adoption or final
10:56something or other so um tonight might be it i i'm not positive um but i will i will find out if it is so i'm sure by the end of the by the end of the meeting we can all log on to the city council meeting and find out but uh hopefully hopefully by the end of the night we will no longer have to do two separate meetings we can have one and then we will
11:23then we have to worry about having a quorum for future meetings and it will just make things so much nicer um so agreed yeah yay hopefully hopefully by the next time i talk to you we will have good news and we will be one committee uh so after that i'm not really sure um how i'm not sure if we have to be and this is what i do have to find out if we have
11:48to be voted in again um or just kind of re-appointed to the one committee because i know that some of us are on one some of us are on the other so i just have to find out the details on that part of it and then we do have one more open seat which i have a resume to send up to the mayor i did speak with him about it
12:11and he said to send it to him i was just waiting till the merger so that we don't have any glitches and somebody get appointed and then it have to be reappointed so i'm waiting for that to happen and hopefully we will have a full seven by the next meeting which will be great um so any thoughts comments concerns no okay uh next up so 317 hanover street so i'm gonna let
12:47jason take this one because i know that jason was in contact with charlton looking for an update on this so i will let jason fill us in thanks um so i there was a posting on facebook i think through fall river development news and it was uh south coast health had proposed a two level parking deck on a piece of land across from the old border medical or it is currently born in medical um but
13:20the old union hospital on oh god uh prospect and hanover hillside and i think linden um with an entrance on hillside and um so with that that was something that i believe actually connie that you had brought up when they came before us regarding 317 hanover um that that would be an ideal spot for them to build a parking deck so i had reached out to um uh matthew burke uh the attorney for south coast health
13:48just for an update as to what's happening with that particular project on hanover street they are still going forward with it unfortunately due to the passing of lou andrade who owned those three houses on hanover um it's currently being held up in probate um and i think they're just trying to i think there's also an issue with the tenant that wasn't moving out i'm not sure um so they have not closed on the
14:17properties yet um but it is still their intention to demolish the the three houses unfortunately um and um i would assume that when they eventually if they are going to proceed with the parking deck a block over um you know it'll they'll need to put the car somewhere but um and i'm hoping that they still stick with their plan to put a little corner the landscaping parklet and the the buffer
14:48plantings and so forth but it it's just stalled at this point but that's basically what it uh as far as i know so the thing is um if it goes past a year then they do need to come back before us because any any agreement that we made is only valid for a year anyway so if it's past that date they'll have to come back before us um for another
15:14six month demo delay and at that point we can speak with them again about putting up the little sitting area and um you know just to make sure they're still willing to do that i did contact um oh let's see i contacted um the planners the planning office the building department nothing's been issued no dental permit has been issued yet nothing they did receive i think approval from
15:43oh no i i don't i don't even think they received site plan review yet um but they um it was all dropped off with those departments um but like i said nothing has been issued i thought they had gone to site plan review or was it oh no they wanted they wanted our approval i think right they needed an experience yeah i think they needed a variance and um i think they that's what they had
16:10received but they did not receive the full site plan review yet um and yeah and once they have that then they can get the demo permit but like i said nothing they they have nothing as of what did i email me maybe two three two weeks ago yeah it was a couple of weeks ago and then he responded and i think the last response was maybe last week sometime later like midweek last week yeah so yep
16:41so any uh questions thoughts anything all right thank you for thank you for doing that jason okay okay so um next up preservation guidelines i did send so discussion and possible i did send uh was it three uh-huh did i sense um let's see yep so site elements additions and new construction and then um the introduction so i don't know and i know um ruben's not here tonight i don't know if ruben has any
17:31any thoughts on that either um he wasn't gonna be able to make the meeting tonight but i can also check with him to see if he has anything um so do we have anything um before we um go into the three new ones that were sent over um we had voted on the last time we had talked about the guidelines we have voted on the um suggested revisions to the previous sections um what's the status of
18:04that i sent them to dominique but she hasn't sent anything back okay as of yet and i we i did actually meet with her and i met with um it was her and jim sol and i met uh the monday after mother's day she had come up here because she was taking pictures of uh some of the more the commercial buildings she had done a lot of the houses the last time in this time she
18:29was going to do commercial buildings so that she would have that to include as well okay so and um so yeah so we have these three to discuss and then there's also one that i want to um bring up to dominique because it's um it's something that's that's kind of unique to us and i'm not really sure um i'm not really sure whether or not she does it but i would imagine there's
19:03got to be a way to have it put in which is um oak grove cemetery when um on the off chance that that does become a local district if we if we ever get to that point it would be good to have something like that that way it's just one more tool that we can use with the city um when they're making changes in the cemetery to say look this
19:29is a a historic cemetery um this is supposed to be a park lake cemetery and these are the guidelines that have been set so i'm just wondering if maybe that's something we want to bring up to dominique to maybe include i think so is that gonna um i mean it would be great to have it included but that wasn't part of the contract so i wonder if it would cost
19:57more for her to add a section of that like i don't know i mean i know even the business she wasn't contracted to do that and i think she's doing it anyways just to okay goodness of her heart so okay what's that i wasn't sure what we could and couldn't do i wasn't sure if there were just certain sections and then that was it or um i mean if it's important enough which i think it is
20:26and it say it would we would have to contract another contract then perhaps that's the route we need to take it wouldn't be that as much as the first time around but i don't know like i don't i don't i mean you met with her so maybe talking with her and finding out but it that that's the only thing i would think of because even with the business section i felt like we were already right
21:01boundaries okay no but it was um we can always make an amendment too to the design guidelines so if this is something down the line that we want to address uh for example if you know hypothetically down the line and we create a historic district that might actually ex encompass say north park which is in olmsted park and it should be protected um and you know we can go back and
21:27apply for the the grant funding to get another section written up and we can make that amendment into the um design guidelines yep good point we can do that that's fine i mean i it's still worth i think having a conversation with her to see whether it's something we should pursue in the future i i think we should i think we should have talks in cemeteries yeah that are historical especially in
21:58oak grove and north uh old north berry and burial ground absolutely totally i also think as a contact with the friends of the ogre cemetery the last time i looked into that it was mike keane who was the president so there's someone there that needs i think to be contacted to move forward with this at whatever point in time that this moves forward so there is um as i said the um organization is the
22:39friends of the oak grove cemetery yeah and i have his contact information so that would be easy enough to do and i'm sure that that the friends would um welcome something like this because i know how hard they work to to keep the historic nature of oak grove cemetery so um i mean this would help protect um those parks and cemeteries so it would well the protection will only be if somehow we can get them
23:14under protection because as of right now they really they have limited protection no i guess i meant like at least having guidelines so that you don't have um you don't have someone going in there and doing something completely well there are guidelines there actually is one for historic cemeteries it's it's in um it's the massachusetts guidelines for historic cemeteries and um i have a copy of it and i know
23:47the city has a copy because tony dice had sent it to them a long time ago so they are well aware it's just their choice not to follow the guidelines and unfortunately there's nothing at this point in time that mandates them to do it there are certain things that they do need to contact mass historical commission for but not not too many um unfortunately and same thing with the parks i mean obviously you all know the
24:18issues that we have had with the park department and the park board and the olmstead parks and even having a voice or a say which that's a battle we've been fighting for how many years now since the since the oak cemetery debacle where they ruined all the historic uh gravestones and things so um you know it again it's it's one of those things that should happen but doesn't always happen and until we have some
24:53stricter uh guidelines in place that have to be followed unfortunately we are at the mercy of whatever it is that they decide to do and we can only hope that they will do the right thing so okay so do we want to discuss the elements so first we have um do you want to start with site elements number seven
25:49i didn't have anything marked um any any comments to make on this particular section that it's very well done and i'm actually eager to see the uh the images that she'll include um but um it's it's very thorough um like all the other sections actually i'm learning ever a lot of information from these guidelines i don't have the background that reuben has in and i don't know and rick um as uh as a technical person so
26:31i really don't have the expertise to make comment on them i'm finding out that i'm learning a lot just by reading them so i really don't have a critique the capability of making a critique on them i i would ask the question though how are these going to be distributed how does um is it is it in the district if any changes happen in the district then they get these guidelines before they make the changes
27:06how do you get to distribute these so it's going to be electronically done we're going to have a we're going to have an electronic copy right on the website and people will be able to download it people will be able to print it out if they want to it's going to be available for free to anybody from the city website so and then we can probably get physical copies
27:32print it up as well put them at the at the fall republic library keep one up in the office the historical commission office in city hall keep one at the building department for sure and we can put one on our own because as well i mean on our page facebook facebook page yeah oh you mean the the page on our on on the city page no because the city page is still a little
27:59oh okay yeah on the facebook page yeah definitely um so we only have 47 houses um but it shouldn't be that costly to produce this and as well with a letter just reminding the homeowners and we've just discussed having a letter sent out to the homeowners just reminding them that they are in a 40c district um is this something that we can probably produce for those houses and have them mailed to each homeowner
28:33i can't see why not um especially because we've never gotten a budget they've never given us a budget but we're a city board and we should have some type of a budget so i don't see why um like with planning or somewhere they wouldn't be able to come up with enough money just to print up 47 copies and then mail it i mean that's definitely and something like this could be easily
29:00outsourced to a local printer they wouldn't have to do it right there in city hall they could just outsource it and do the whole right ship it out in that sort but um i mean it's only 47 houses it's not you know not a whole lot um and it's not you know i don't know i think it would be helpful for us because how how many people are actually they will go on and see the guidelines
29:23but then to have it in person or at least have it in their hands is another is another thing yep good point um i do know that the city is getting an overhaul of their website when that's happening how it's happening i don't know the website was overhauled recently but it's not very good um so i'm curious i think they need it first to do that they don't have ideas but yeah they're they're
29:53i know that's on the on the city council's radar is to have the city website redone yeah we need something that's user friendly because that website is probably one of the least user-friendly websites i've ever seen yep so um yeah okay so once i mean once it's done we'll have copies available for anybody for free and you know also i think we all need to have hard copies as well for us
30:24when exactly i printed mine out and i'm keeping them in a three-ring notebook okay so um connie or uh rick or jason do you oh jason i think you said you're all set with it but rick or connie do you have anything regarding site elements no i'm good with that yep so am i okay i thought it was very very thorough and really like just really well organized and um like joyce said i've learned so
30:57much from this too because it's not something that's uh you know that some of us are pros out or anything so there's always really interesting things to learn god i'm learning every day i'm in the middle of a construction boom right now with liberty utilities i have to tell you all that um there's they stopped trying to uh lay the the pipe for the gas line because my property and the rest of this street
31:31is sitting on a ledge so it's been a real challenge the last month uh they've brought in dillinger drilling equipment to get through the granite before they can actually remove it and lay the new gas line um i'm running every day i'm living every day and it's challenged just getting in and out of my driveway so that's why it's taken so long on your street because i know they've been doing your
31:58streets for exactly and i'm like why is it taking so long it's yeah they stopped at bt and london and then when they got past borogod uh they ground to a halt and in fact they broke two hammers they broke two hammers in front of my house and that's when they decided to bring the drill drilling equipment in and that's where it is right now they're drilling from my house to locus
32:29and it's probably going to take another couple of weeks before it finally settles and we can move freely again it's really been a learning experience now have they done any work in the historic district as far as in the streets have they have they ripped up the streets there yet uh that i don't know but you can go on well connie and rick would know because they live no no no they have not no
32:59but you can find out where they're going because if you go on liberty utilities website they give you the week by week list of tree of streets um and and they estimate they tell you that they estimate that the the street will take a week well i'll tell you that chavezon's been down about over a month maybe more than yeah pretty close pretty close to a month just from borough guide up
33:31but you can actually get the week by week list of streets something to look into yeah so no i was just curious if you know there's been any disruption in the in the district or um you know anything get knocked down knocked over that kind of thing property's getting ruined and uh i'm my property is going to have to get a new lawn to begin with but if that lawn had been
34:05this the grassy sidewalk if that had been in good shape it would have been wrecked because yeah and that's what i'm worried about in the district is if if any of the street part of it as far as some sidewalks or plantings things like that are going to get ruined in the process as well and they will they will they will get ruined that's i think that's what we're going to have to keep
34:28an eye on when um you know connie and rick i know you're right there so you'll know when that's happening and maybe um just give us a heads up so that we can all keep an eye on the you know the the edges of the sidewalks and the the properties and you know just to make sure that things are going to be done the right way because i mean they're still responsible
34:52regardless to fix it it's a historic district and if they if they ruin something then just you know liberty utilities is still responsible to put it back the way that it was so okay so um moving on next we have section 8 which is editions and new construction so this is something that may end up coming up unfortunately sooner rather than later because of the fire that was in the um in the uh
35:39yeah which i mean we we do have that on the agenda to discuss as well under new business um so i mean again i didn't see anything that i felt needed changing um i mean it all seems to it the way that it is makes sense it gives a good idea like even um in drawings of what would be appropriate what wouldn't be appropriate as far as um new construction or additions um
36:31you know i mean obviously if if something is completely destroyed then there's no way that you're going to be able to save it i'm not really sure what the status is of the house i don't either but i mean i know seeing worse conditions where they've actually stored it right so i mean there is a hole in the roof i don't know when anything is going to be addressed i haven't heard anything
37:02okay but i mean it's not that house itself is not to the point or at least i don't know i i obviously i don't know the the structural safety of any of it but i do see that most of the house really seems to be standing um there's a lot of boarding up but it must have been it must have been very stable because they allowed them back in to retain personal items right
37:29that just goes to show like it's pretty stable yeah and how bad the fire was and water damage and stuff ray bones these houses and we'll be having to address well eventually we'll have to review that but not only if that house the house next door the windows were still boarded up they were blown out from the heat so that's will likely be coming our way as well but that's that's on the top of the windows
37:59something something i did hear from the homeowners which i thought was very interesting and speaks to the quality of old windows is that the new windows that had been in that house before it was a declarative district those blew out but the old stained glass windows survived that's fantastic this is the house next door yes yeah and not surprising not at all no so the replacement windows were but the old ones
38:36stood strong so it would be it would probably be in our best interest to either contact the owners of the fire damaged home and trying to get an idea as to what their determination is and uh if they're if that hole in the roof is left to open too long with all the rain that comes in it's going to raise havoc with that building uh to the point where it then might have to be condemned so
39:07uh it probably would be good if we could get some contact before hang on rick before we talk about can we make a motion to take new business a 8 a out of order and then we can discuss that right now because we're still actually talking about the guidelines so if you want to make a motion we can discuss that first maybe we should just stick with the guidelines so that we could stay focused all right
39:32and then we'll yeah we'll have that discussion when we get there so this is um so this is for the guidelines any any thoughts comments changes questions on um right now so additions and new construction what with the exception of the few comments that we sent back uh to have addressed uh i like these these documents i'm very satisfied personally with them so my vote is if you want to start accepting them
40:08you got my my positive vote on this okay so going back to site elements do we want to does somebody want to make a motion to send to um to vote to send that to dominique telling her that we're fine with that or because i'll i need a motion to do that and then i can send it so this is going back to number seven site elements i'll make a motion to approve or to send that
40:34back to dominique that it's good to go okay so i have a motion and i need a second well i'll second that okay so motion in a second so we'll do two roll calls for that so uh i have a motion and a second two and this is from the historic district commission to approve well actually it's only the district commission that needs to vote on this right yeah okay so to approve um site elements
41:04and send that to dominique telling her it's all set richard mancini uh yes connie soul yes jason bouchard naraki yes and kristen cantera oliveira yes i would i would also suggest that we get the historic commission to vote on it too because this is a city-wide document or we'd like it to make a city-wide document not just the historic section okay then we can do that we'll have we'll we'll do a second vote historical
41:37commission so i need a motion and a second from the historical commission okay i will make a motion that we accept the guidelines for side elements as proposed okay so i have a motion do i have a second i'll second that motion okay motion in a second historical commission vote richard mancini yes connie seoul yes joyce rogers yes and kristen cantara oliveira vote yes so it is approved by both committees
42:11now on section 8 editions and new constructions if there's no further discussion on that would somebody from either committee like to make a motion to accept it as is and send it to dominique i'll make a motion to accept section eight as is okay i have a motion do i have a second a second okay motion and a second from the district commission roll call richard mancini yes connie seoul yes jason bouchard naraki
42:48yes kristen cantor oliveira yes and i need a motion in a second from the historical commission make a motion to accept uh section eight okay i have a motion and i need a second i'll second that motion motion in a second roll call richard mancini yes funny soul yes joyce rodriguez can tara oliver yeah this will be so much nicer when we do not have to do two votes oh god okay
43:25um so those two i will send to dominique and the last section is the introduction um so let me bring that up on mine as well
43:46okay so that's section one that is the introduction um i think all of it is really good um things that i wasn't even remotely thinking of um that are in here you might think the professional or something the way she put this together you would think i mean she is just she's amazing it's so broad it covers so many different things like i was surprised you know there's people who mention of
44:26the register of significant structures there's you know it's all in there yep the historical society like anybody that would benefit in any way the preservations today the conservation commission the park board the tree planting program like all of these all of these groups and you know and people forget how all of this really does affect so many different people the reasons why like
44:53you know repair versus replacement alterations and renovations things like that um frequently asked questions i think is a is a great thing because there are people are always asking questions um you know preservation organizations in the state like a lot of people don't know who to call in the state so it's in here like mass historical commission preservation massachusetts um you know things like that so the only
45:23thing um all right i'll i'll let you guys give a thought and then um i will i will hold my comments until until you all chime in i i just would ask connie because you've been so involved with this has the planning board and the city engineer weighed in on these guidelines no no should they or is this something that they will accept from from us i that's the way it would be yeah it would
46:04it is from us i don't well first of all i'm not sure that i would i i don't know the city engineer i only know the previous city engineer and that was the city engineer that decided to forego mass historical commission's recommendation that they do a have a historic archaeologist come in for a historic site that they were going to dig up and put houses on so i i would hope that our
46:34current um city engineer does not have that same mindset so um these uh guidelines yeah hang in hand with state guidelines right um so what we're doing is we're following mass historic state guidelines right creating our own for the area specific to what we have here in fall river right in in the district it really isn't the city engineer that has the say over the district it's the historic district commission
47:06that has to say or even the planning board that's that is what we are um that is what we are supposed to do that's our mission to carry out is to you know uh to carry out the guidelines that are adopted in that district and it's it's us that's charged with doing that and the city has to enforce them right so i don't i don't think we need them to weigh in on it um
47:34i mean certainly i i think sending them a copy of it would be a good thing so that they have that but i don't think we really need them weighing in i mean i'm sure they they both have a lot on their plates anyway i mean we're tasked with this this is our job to do it right okay and i have no comments again i think this is a very well section very well done so
48:09um the only um so in the the last page where there's the glossary of architectural terms that's excellent and very very thorough um i do do have a question for dominique and it's not necessarily needs to be in this part at all um but i'm curious if she has in the past um maybe given a um a quick overview of architectural styles because we do have a quite the range in
48:39not just the district but across the city we do have quite the range um the district has a lot more queen anne and second empire um and some shingle but then across the city there's far more um so i'm just curious if maybe she might have i don't know something ready to go that she can just possibly include or it's not necessarily needed for this particular section but um maybe just as a resource
49:14because a window a window on a on an italian eight will be different than a window on a shingle style or you know revival for that matter right um so connie do you know if this is the last i mean if these are all of the sections because i don't know i'll tell you i know she's doing pictures played a direct part in it i think um you know there should be other
49:56people we might want to consider mentioning so maybe that's something that if if any of you have thoughts about that oh right off the top i mean we had the preservation society is the one that right uh you know was responsible for creating the 40c and there were a lot of volunteers involved with that at the time that's the only so do we want to mention all of the names or do we want to just mention
50:29preservation society i mean it took like a that was a 10-year process and people came and went i would hate to miss um but they were some top people perhaps speaking with jim's soul and asking him um i'd hate to miss anyone i mean i was there from the beginning so i kind of remember a lot of the people that were involved but it was really grassroots sitting around a dining room table working
51:03you know taking photos it was so long ago that we had film and negatives that we had to send to the state wow i can just remember too um like the whole hearing about it and how you know mike for example mike king was mike keane and his wife ann keane were also uh involved at the beginning was was al lima part of that as well uh or am i or was that he was with the
51:43previous preservation society that had defunct okay i wasn't sure okay so so we'll talk to jim for some names this is information that we can give dominique afterwards yeah definitely it's not something that we need to do right now yeah but we need we will need to compile a list of people that we do want to acknowledge
52:20i was just going to say then the section as a whole i don't have any other i don't have any other comments on it okay so just then um if you want to accept it also well motion to accept it with the um addition coming forth of the names that we're going to put eventually like except everything except for that one section where we have to add the names does that make sense
52:51yeah she'll have to she will have to um get that information from us anyways because there's still like some things that haven't been filled in like there's some references to pages that aren't numbered yet and um obviously photos that not that have not been included so we're just i think we're just voting on the draft as is okay he just wants a general um confirmation that we're headed in the
53:15right direction i think all right so then i have a motion to accept the introduction um in as is and sent to dominique do i have a second i'll say that okay so i have a motion and a second so we'll do historical commission for us richard mancini yes connie sol yes joyce rodriguez yes christine cantera oliveira yes so historical commission accepts and from the district can i have a motion please i'll make a motion
53:51i have a motion do i have a second i'll second motion in a second from the district richard mancini yes connie saul yes jason bouchard naraki yes kristen cantera oliveira that is a yes from both so accepted i will let her know that those three sections are good to go uh okay so next up do we have any other discussion on the guidelines um when how what's the timeline of of
54:28for um there's still many sections left what's the timeline for this or at least for her to complete just curious i am not sure did connie did she give jim a timeline by chance he's at another meeting so i i can't even ask him that question now okay um but i didn't meet with her um did she mention it that day when she was here in fall river no she just said she
54:56was going to start working on the other sections but she didn't give a specific timeline yeah i um i think when she came back up she got the rest of what she needed um so i'm not sure okay but in the meantime we have the drafts to go on so when somebody's coming before us we know that we've already adopted certain things in the drafts like you know um windows and roofing and
55:26things like that so when someone's coming to us we're going to we're going to reference our drafts not only have are we addressing our drafts but we've also had a precedent set like we've already um you know have we've already had people in the neighborhood you know addressing the same issues right but i mean this gives us a tangible thing that we can print or somebody can print out and have to say okay
56:00this is specifically what we expect from them you know i mean like whereas before we didn't have it specifically where we could give them a written look this is what we expect and now now we actually do so it does make it much easier for us when that happens so okay moving on uh new business so first up is the uh the house street the high street house fire i know we had talked
56:32briefly about that so um let's continue discussing that have you heard from the homeowner at all i have not okay um i have an eye off so they ever say what the cause was um just the report stated that it was um i can't think of the terminology an incendiary device thank you a what an incendiary device outside okay so it started from outside the house and right yeah yeah it worked this way there
57:21was that carport on the side that kind of worked its way up the side of the house that way right yeah so um jason had mentioned yeah so go ahead i was wondering if if we should reach out to the homeowner um just i know she's going through a lot right now um and um we are obviously we will likely have to meet with her at one point um to go over
57:59the future of the site um but i'm not sure if they could we send out a letter um don't know exactly what to talk about but yeah how how do what would be the best way to reach out to her and what should we say i mean you know we can definitely offer our assistance in whatever way we can um but i think that's exactly it you know just let her know that we're here to
58:32help her with questions or no i don't know where it stands as far as i mean the investigation is definitely over um so i'm not really sure connie is this the first time this has happened where there's been a basically a disaster in the district uh is this the first time that you're encountering this yes yeah so we're really developing a process on how to manage damage not just this
59:21incredibly bad fire but other damage other damage that might occur this is this is going to be something that we need to know we need to know uh unfortunately there's gonna be damage yeah and finding out if it's deemed a total loss or that's that's where we're at at this point like it doesn't have to be a home in the district it's a home anywhere that's where you're at you know
59:52you have to know where you're gonna go from here i mean it the the property is is literally exposed to the elements right now and i'm i'm i i drove by a handful of times i ca i'm a little surprised that the the hole is still quite visible there's no tarp or anything like that covering it um i mean that it was a house fire but i'm also we have to look out for the maintenance
1:00:19of these properties and that's it kind of falls under that um you know the house is literally being reigned in and that's not going good for the structure at all that's what rick was saying yeah well we're going to end up with mold issues and stuff just like the old police station where they just allowed the elements just like uh the school on the name of the school oh we had that one on highland highland avenue
1:00:52on uh oak grove no the one on highland avenue that the building inspector the prior building inspector deemed a safety hazard and made them knock it down immediately and now it's just sitting there as a big open field even though it was full of mold and they didn't mitigate it or anything and they just blew the mold up into the air so no sense um so i i mean i don't understand how
1:01:21there isn't um something in place for that to be secured i do you know what i mean like i i'm not sure why it hasn't been let me do let me do this i hear what you're saying let me call the building department uh okay and uh talk to glenn and and see if there's anything that the city has or i i i it can't be a power but maybe a suggestion suggestion
1:01:54from the building department to get that roof uh at least a top or something put on it to eliminate the water from penetrating the building and and it it the city does say that they want the buildings to be weather tight that's why you brought up the windows and things of that nature but leaving the roof open is contradictory to pretty much what the requirements are so let me talk to glenn first and and
1:02:26and let's let's just get a feel from that department and then maybe we can proceed uh you know in our direction okay well the other thing it could i mean it really could be considered a safety issue because if the elements continue in the house and you develop molds you are creating a safety hazard right there so i would think that that does constitute a safety hazard or at least you know a precursor to one
1:02:57so i would think there's something that glenn would be able to do right and so let me just do that and and then i'll get back to everyone and see what happens further saturation of the house can also lead to interior components collapsing which then causes an issue it's a public safety hazard and it's it literally is sitting open right now and so all right so so i think our before we even send a letter out
1:03:30i think we need to find out what can be done what is going to be done and then go from there so rick will contact the building inspector and then we will go from there good all right we'll take care of that before the week's over okay thank you rick thanks yeah and next is uh open discussion do we have anything new i just want to comment on the 670 high street
1:04:07uh they were given an award by the preservation society and everyone was invited to go some people who were able to go always couldn't um but it was really a nice uh ending to a pretty rough beginning when we first met them and so it was it was actually really nice so yeah good things good things happen sometimes they did an amazing job and for you know for a family that really didn't
1:04:35know anything at all when they bought the property that it was even in the district and that they had to come before us and and that um they did take our recommendations and they just made the most amazing um renovation of of that house and they just brought it back to life and it's it's beautiful it really is stored their windows they save them um so it's just yeah that's really amazing yeah when the
1:05:03glass on the windows was amazing to the wave gloss i wish i was able to attend we i had the email and then we had initially this meeting that night and then that got cancer to postpone to tonight but then i had another meeting to attend so unfortunately yeah yeah it's such a great such a great house i mean you drive by and the house is just it it has it lends such a great
1:05:28presence to the neighborhood and they did an amazing job inside they kept so many of the historic elements inside and you could just see the pride on their faces and i think if they had just gone a different route you know and not um not not listen i i mean there could have just been some real terrible outcome for what could have happened to that property and now just
1:05:54to see you know how good it looks and what a great example it is in the district of how something can and should be done um and just to see how how excited and proud they were to show off their house so it was really nice to see that i have to say too the um i can't think of the address same side of that street one house up the one that had the poetry done
1:06:20i feel bad that i can't think of his name but he completed the porch and it and it looks nice is that 638 was it can't chris campos yes okay yeah so that's the thing i mean when people are getting into the neighborhood because that's one of the things that dominique had mentioned is that as she walked through the neighborhood it didn't she couldn't find a beginning or an end because there was there's a mismatch um
1:06:51and so at some point through the years it's going to be definitive like you'll be able to tell the beginning and the end that's good that's all i got the the other thing i'm just going to bring up that piece of property on the corner of rock and french what that has the porch that was damaged that is still terrible and i did speak with so i did speak with attorney rumsey about
1:07:26that because we had asked him i had sent him an email asking him about that property and if we were able to send the letter if it would be um you know within our rights to send that and he said that he was bogged down with all kinds of other stuff he was trying to finish this was a few weeks ago he was getting everything done to send to the ordinance committee so that we
1:07:53could get the two things merged and he said that he knew it was there unfortunately right now it was not the priorities for him basically um so i don't know what else to do about that at this point i mean until we have uh you know something from corporation council that says yes we can find the homeowner the porch is not even i don't even think it's legally safe no is it oh no it's
1:08:24got no handrail it's got no ballads in the handrail well it doesn't have anything so that's the building department that has to address that part of it well but yeah there are no ballots for you know to protect anything from falling through children or adults but i mean as far as the fining part i did talk with him about that and he said that he will look it over
1:08:51at some point and he's going to try and do it um i don't know when that's going to happen all right so i'll also talk to glenn about the uh in fact i think it's frank that was handling that i'll talk to the building department about that porch also and find out uh you know all right we can maybe they can start to put some pressure on there because it's been a what a year and a
1:09:17half two years something like that because the house itself looks like it's not being taken care of no it doesn't okay i'll work on that too okay got it
1:09:44um kristen was there any update with um 258 to 60 prospect 16 on the on the house so if it's sold that um i thought we had talked that you were going to talk with attorney ramsey about putting a lien for the amount of repairing the porch um so when it sold uh the money would be available for us to return it back to it's an original state okay again well i know
1:10:31so the the problem with that too was rick i know you had met with glenn about that because we had sent a letter asking him to enforce it i think we had sent two letters asking him to enforce it and he had said yes it's on it's on my desk um i don't know like after that point what you know i i i don't i don't either it was on it
1:11:00was it had been put in a top priority situation and again it just fell through the cracks there's something going on with that property and and what went on with it that i guess is beyond us because it was it's you know that no one wants to touch that at all from the city and so historically they
1:11:32regarding that property so but that's the thing even if we decide that we want to put a lean on it are we going to have support from the city i mean legally we according to the ordinance legally we are allowed to do this yes but i mean you know in the past things you know with the past administrations and the way that things are supposed to be handled we have not been supported
1:12:08um like for instance the house that was on highland avenue the old the building that they knocked down on highland avenue that was completely handled absolutely the wrong way in every single step of the way and was thrown out of court i i realized that but this is in the 40-c district so it has has like more teeth to it and stuff so if they didn't want to find him per day
1:12:37to return it that's why we had thought about the the lien on the home for whatever the amount would be i don't know 25 000 30 000 to return the court i don't know i'm throwing money i mean amounts out there without um you know actual yeah but that's the thing how can we put an amount on it a lean on it we can put an amount on it based on um a contractor's assessment
1:13:09but we would have to get an assessment first before we can put a lien on it like we would have what i was what we discussed was to talk with alan about us going through with that and then we would like what's the use of us spending the time getting that if we're going to get the same response well this was the thing with with friend and rock street is i'm still waiting to find out
1:13:37if we can ask her like send that letter telling her that we are putting you know a fee on it for a daily you know every day and this is what i'm still waiting to find out on that so i mean we're waiting to find out i i know you've recently talked to him but maybe now that you know he's completed that and he's come back from vacation and stuff like that so perhaps
1:14:04between the two ask about putting a lien on the property so that at least when it sells we can do something to to restore it okay all right and if it's been on and off the market for it's off the market now but it's it's it'll be on the market as a single family then it'll be uh off uh back on the market as condos i don't know what's going on but um yeah
1:14:39it hasn't sold as far as i know no it hasn't okay okay i will reach out to allen both these homes that we're addressing uh in the 4dc district um so we should be able to move forward with that i think so we need i don't i don't want us to accept the fact that someone's too busy to help us we're a city entity we should get help we should have guidance
1:15:21we should be a priority like all the entities are i agree absolutely this is the the the duties that we that we're charged with carrying out right it's it is very frustrating that this is kind of what we are have been up against pretty much all along and what we're still up against and i don't know i'm hoping that when we combine the two committees and we have one full solid committee it will
1:16:00i mean obviously now the city council is a little more aware of who we are what we do i think maybe that might make it a bit of a difference at least we're a little more on their radar now perhaps we should also reach out to the mass historic commission um to ask about guidance from them as well okay like maybe they can tell us well perhaps you need to reach out to so and so and
1:16:28not them but at least get some guidance of who to reach out to so that you know we're not meeting in in jest you know all right i'm i will email um jennifer dougherty from mass historical commission um because i i actually was emailing her today about something else so i will um reach out to her and ask her i'll explain the situation and see who the best person would be um
1:17:04i mean as we had discussed a long time ago about collecting fees so that we had our own account so when we needed um if we needed to hire an attorney or whatever we could right we don't even have an account set up that was another thing they have never set up an account i don't even know how that would happen because i don't know i don't even know what's in place
1:17:27financially this theory was supposed to be setting that up right and that never happened i don't know whether you know it was the the treasurer's office that kept pushing it off or what i don't know i don't know if things just felt fell to the wayside because of covid you know we kind of weren't meeting we weren't that's possible following through so that's why i think we need to yeah
1:17:58take care of matters now especially with the guidelines coming the 40c is here i mean there's just this is a good time for us to um empower our committee okay and it sets a precedent too the district's only been in around for less less than 10 years and this uh prior to me joining was there did you did the the commission ever find homeowners at all or okay so it's new no prospect street was the
1:18:37first one that we sent a letter to telling them that we were going to find them and they they never even contacted us back and we sent two letters registered letters so we need this is a perfect opportunity for us to make make it very clear that you know these things they especially in the district you know there's there's a process and there are uh repercussions so do we also want to consider um
1:19:15i mean sometime soon sending out another letter to everyone in the district letting them know that they absolutely have to follow the guidelines for that reason that they're you know it can't hurt there's been new um you know there's been sales and um new homeowners um and once if we we could probably send one out sooner than when the guidelines are finished or we could send one out when
1:19:51the guidelines are finished and that can be all sent all together i don't know i think we should probably send one out for them because there have been some exchanges happened in the neighborhood um so it's it's probably a good thing to educate before instead of trying to do corrective sooner than later okay yeah and it's not to tell them necessarily just they have to you know that the guidelines are
1:20:20coming but that there already are guidelines in place there are you know things that they have to do and there's a procedure that has to be followed before they can do anything and if they don't comply there are financial and sometimes people just don't know what the right thing is to do you know right i mean we can just essentially use the letter that we've sent before um but maybe just change it a little bit
1:20:52make it a little less i mean it was this we wanted to share the letter with all of us so we can review it all right i'll do that as soon as the meeting's done i'll just email it it was the one that we had used in the past that tony had sent out um and it was a little wordy so i i think there's probably easier ways to yeah send it out and then we'll
1:21:22i think that's a good idea we can all look at it okay okay anything else nope okay so our next meeting is scheduled for tuesday june 21st at 6 00 pm um and we will decide then if we're going to do impression or by zoom so if i can get a motion to adjourn the historical commission i'll make a motion to adjourn the historical commission i have a motion to adjourn and i need a second
1:22:04i'll second that i have a motion and a second so roll call richard mancini yes connie seoul yes joyce rodriguez yes kristen cantera aloe vera yes and i will need a motion to adjourn from the district commission i'll make a motion to the drink motion do i have a second i'll second okay motion and a second to adjourn richard mancini yes yes kristen cantora oliveira yes so we are adjourning at 7 27 p.m
1:22:48um thank you everyone and have a good night okay and have a good rest of the month me too take care nice night night