6.11.2024 Fall River City Council

over over hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey

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m city council me come to order clerk will call the RO Council kadim here Dion here har here Kilby here perrera here PTI here Roso here Samson here president CRA here lone C please rise for a moment of Silent prayer

please remain standing for suit to the flag Al to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised such recordings or Transmissions are being

made whether proceed pered or UNP perceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible Madam clerk president the first matter before the council is a communication from the director of financial services and quotes for the annual independent audit um which was objected to at the last Council entertain a motion to lift the item from the table motion so made second motion

is made seconded all in favor I I motion to move the question can you oppos oh I'm sorry motion carries motion to refer to the committee on finance to cond interviews with all three contracted contractors second motion to refer the item to finance to conduct interviews with all three we have a roll call on that yes please sure anyone understand the motion has been made and seconded roll

call we're not you the motion would be to refer to the committee on finance to conduct interviews with the three candidates uh councilor kadim yes Dion yes Hart no Kilby no Herrera no PTI yes Roso yes Samson yes and president Kar yes motion carries Mr President do we take item 12 out of order the citation absolutely councelor motion to take item 12 out of order has been made and seconded all in

favor I is there a motion to adopt the citation motion to adopt second motion to adopt citation this is the wrong citation but we'll adopt this one anyway the other one was filed after the agenda that's fine I'm sorry we have it out of order we can vote on both let's vote on this one as a matter of fact motion to adopt the citation has remained second and all in favor I any opposed motion

carries now we'll entertain a motion to take item 12a motion so second motion to take item 12a out of order has a minut and seconded all in favor I any oppos motion carries motion to adopt 12 a motion to adopt as a made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries Maggie will you come down

please looks like your granddaughter Al know she I just realized I forgot to sign before I begin want to introduce everyone to Magie

oano okay I think nervous you have to give a speech you no you don't m I just want to read some of the accomplishments of this young lady can you hear me clearly we can so Maggie is the recipient of the Boston Globe athletic scholarship award um she was cross country for five years at dery high school she was cross country as an 8th grader beating all the high school kids excuse

me after that she was a four-year Herald News Runner of the year four Times Herald News Runner of the year four times cross country most valuable player five times cross country Southeast Conference League Allstar two times Southeast Conference League champion and League MVP she holds three course records four-year vity basketball starter two-time Southeast Conference League Allstar dery cows Dave uh d uh

dery's Dave Collins Award nominee Boys and Girls Club Allstar and scholarship winner Harold News shootout All-Star player Mike Haron All-Star shootout player twoyear Spring Track one year winter track two year Southeast Conference Allstar undefeated in the mile and two mile in League Play top 10 in the state for the mile I'm getting tired already do all that stuff that's a pressure to play football

football 2-year vity tennis first doubled soueast conference Allstar second singles Southeast Conference Allstar she's the First Student in the history of dery to win 14 vas letters wow wow it's a major accomplishment wow she signed to run D1 cross country with SE and Hall in the Honors College and combined 4-3 4 plus three Med track she graduated fifth in her class and if we were to

talk about her academic accomplishments we'd be here long past 10 o'clock so Maggie I want to thank you commend you on all that you've done your family is very proud of you I am very proud of you as well towards everyone else but we are giving you an official resolution be result that the city council hereby extends its accommodation to Maggie o Connell 2024 Boston Globe Foundation Richard J Phelps scholarship AET

scholarship scholar AET scholarship in recognition of your outstanding excellence in athletics academics and extracurricular activities to become the recipient of the Boston Globe Foundation Richard J Phelps scholar athlete scholarship be it further resolved that the forward city council extends best wishes for continued success and that this resolution be entered into the records of the city council adopted June

11 2024 proposed by myself and I signed officially 10 seconds ago and is signed by the clerk Allison bu Maggie

congratulations a few words thank you Mr Cima and the rest of the city council for this recognition I'm honored to be receiving the Boston Globe athletic scholarship as a representative of Fall River running the city streets has made me the athlete I am today and as I continue my athletic career I will let everyone know where I come from thank

you Maggie I like I know you like to run someday I hope you run for

office Mr President none of us will ever a catch up can we take item five out of order Mohawk Drive second motion to take item five out of what I must have a wrong agenda tonight 21 done okay Revis yeah I got it motion to take item 21 out of order has it made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries motion to table it item 21 second motion to table item 21 has

been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed you want to have a discussion on the councelor I do councelor seat six C I'd like to refer it to the committee on real estate uh uh would be Public Works and transportation so that these individuals who are in the audience tonight can come before that committee have a discussion and hear what the real problems are so I'd like to make a motion to refer to the

Committee on Public Works and transportation second you want to go do we have to deal with the table for us or table takes pres pres councel you you councelor yes Council C2 did you have your hand up before no oh okay surprised Council C5 um I did did have the opportunity to speak with um attorney Ramsey and as councelor in seat number one said uh Mr Agia uh the city engineer has been

involved in this and uh attorney Rumsey will look over the packet that we received tonight to gain more information on it if we accepted the street or didn't what ramifications that would have but they are looking into it to have a meeting without having all the information um I think just to table it and if we need to refer it anywhere we can lift it from the table and put it anywhere but at least we'll have

attorney Rumsey do some of the leg work to see legally what can and can't be done in this area along with the Division of Wildlife and the division of uh the tree commission and Mr laasia has actually gone out and met with everyone there as well so we'll just get more information with that I yeld thank you thank you coun counc C4 counc K yes I would just add request Mr rsey uh put

this down as a priority in his office um and uh sooner than later we'd like we'd like that okay thank you thank you coun so a motion to table to presence roll call roll

call on the motion to table councilor's kadim no Dion yes yes yes Pereira yes Ponte no reposo no Samson yes president yes just to make people aware all that means is that we are putting this in aside we will bring it up to fruition at another point in time we're going to give the attorney time to do his due diligence talk to other people and we can schedule a meeting we can lift it from the table

and refer it to the committee appropriate do whatever we want to do with it back then all right you people will be advised the clerk has contact information we'll let you know when that takes place right now there will will be no action taking place on it all right just to make everybody aware of what's happening I don't want to have any confusion out there thank you very much Mr President can we take item 7A

out of order please yeah let me just write these down so I don't go back to them again seven and eight you said 7 a please 7 a which is the budget motion to take item 7A out of order has been made and seconded I'll second all in favor look at it fast opposed motion

counes the committee on finance at a meeting held on June 10th voted unanimously to recommend that the accompanying budget be referred to the full Council for action with councilor Kadeem absent and not voting this is the FY 25 Municipal budget

a motion Mo motion to take the appropriation order by line item second excuse me excuse me excuse me motion take the appropriation by line has been made and seconded all in favor any opposed motion carries yeah what they're talking here on the motion Mr President yes Council seat six Council py thank you um so I want to just make a couple quick comments on the motion to um take the appropriation by line item

by line item I've taken quite a bit of uh you know copious notes this Council has done I thought a really good job this year as an overall body asking questions um and I'm going to just State what I think is the obvious in my opinion um there are some items that you know I I am not totally in favor of um which I've articulated on more than one occasion fir first thing uh is when we

go to uh facilities maintenance um you know we have the possibility of a stien that's there that I personally don't agree with um there's lots of different employees I and I appreciate Mr Aken uh sending giving over to us tonight a um additional responsibilities and a job description which I very appreciate his work on that um but there is lots of different employees and department heads

throughout the city that are doing a lot of work um and candidly uh everybody deserves raises um so I don't personally agree with that and that's my opinion on that in addition within that same footprint under facilities uh maintenance I'm also seeing and again uh this isn't about the individual it's about the process um I'm also not in favor of seeing a increase for the director of the department uh at

$155,000 when when his contract States a completely different number which I believe is $140,000 if I'm correct let me just make sure I'm

correct believe it's 100 yeah that would be $140,000 for that contract that's on page 141 of our bu buet that that's just that's minor in nature uh but two specific items that when it comes to that line item and the appropriation I'm going to make a motion to reduce the uh facilities salaries by the 15,000 and the stien by 13 um in addition um I I feel uh under uh Insurance um the employer ER employer insurance

that the appropriation for my colleague's edification is on starts on page 252 252 on our budget um the SI the the Administration has decided to allocate 3 uh $37 million uh uh to the employer trust fund um and personally looking and I when I bump this back and I spent a lot of time on this today when I bump this back to the report the quarterly report that the city council had a couple of weeks ago

that's from March 31st 2024 the city hasn't received a good amount of Revenue under the employer trust fund we haven't received a reimbursement from the school department which is going to be good for probably.4 million we haven't seen our stop-loss reimbursement which tra the TR trory from every year prior 21 22 and 23 ranges between income for the employer of 1.7 million to 4.1

million um and uh I am I I'm just taking what the anticipated expenses would be by averaging the fiscal year 21 22 and 23 uh for a total expenses of $42 million now what does that mean for my colleagues and the people at home who don't have this piece of paper in front of them I personally believe um that when you take the beginning fund balance which is in our quarterly report the

last quarterly report for my colleagues who don't have it we have a beginning balance of $6.9 million of capital of cash available in the employer trust fund that's number one number two when you take the school Department's reimbursement that were expected plus the stop loss exp expenses that we're getting plus the city's required appropriation from the general fund which is still due at the time of this

report another $7 million we would be we would have about $42 million in total revenue so what I decided to do was take the 42 million plus the beginning balance and if you take that all into consideration the city would have upwards of 15 to2 million in the employer ER so I'm clear trust account I personally believe if the city council reduced the appropriation under the insurance

account by $2.3 million and no longer use onetime money in this Municipal budget we will not have to use one-time money and have a healthier budget going into next year with no future deficits now I know this might be very computed and hard to understand I'd be happy to speak about it some more I'd be happy if you want to bring the if the council wants to bring the administration down

to discuss this but I personally think we have to get away from using one-time money um so I'm going when that appropriation comes I'm going to make that motion to reduce it if I get the support from my colleagues by so it so it be but I think we need to get away from using onetime money the employer trust fund would have excess money in the employee trust fund when I just did

behind the napkin math it doesn't even it makes total sense um and and that's and that's conservative the analysis that I quickly did is conservative because stop loss is is revenue from the employer trust fund that only brought in $42,000 it's going to bring in a lot more than that we don't know how much we're going to get from the school department that's 1.4 million and we're expected to still get a transfer from

this uh general fund of 7 million so there's going to be ample money assuming we don't get walloped with claims but I rather utilize that in an operational budget instead of using one time money to balance it which we really have to get away from I I I want to urge my colleagues like we're all talking for years about how diamonds coming and oh my goodness we don't want to lay off

police and fire it's a tough conversation to have but when you have this money sitting in the employer trust fund in a from a conservative number we have to stop working with one-time money because next year we're going to have a structural deficit for sure we still haven't we we we we we use $1.9 million in capital uh in the budget so they're going to have to add that plus the fire

department and the police department both are seeing in 2025 when their collective bargaining agreement is up they're also probably going to be seeing increases there so we really have to stop doing it and and my opinion this is the only way I personally could see us doing that without using onetime free cash of 2024 to balance the the the the municipal budget this year we have to get away with it my esteemed col

colleague in seat one has been talking about this for years we were talking about this when we started relying on the state which we have to rely heavily on aid from the state but we have to stop having we have to make some tough decisions now and if for some reason the claims come come in so high it's not going to be the first time this Council has seen a transfer from free cash or

stabilization to the employer ER trust fund now I hope my colleagues recognize where I'm coming from here I'm not trying to do your any gutes here but it's just basic math and in addition to that I will say that just quick numbers if we took $2.3 million out of the employer trust fund they will still have over $4 million plus to use for claims as you carry over into the next fiscal year in

an account that is constantly revolving and for my colleagues if they ever have any issue with this if you go back to 2022 you started your ending balance with $4.2 million in it in 23 you had 6.9 you have 8.4 right now and that's going to continue to increase with all of the expenses in the income on a conservative basis in my opinion um so I'm just going to make that motion when

it comes and my final comment on the appropriation order Mr President is going to be I am taking serious exception to the utilization of this Reserve account I did not yet after deliberating with the administration as professionally as we all did any kind of clear understanding or explanation as to what we're doing with the reserve fund of $846,000 I don't have a piece of paper anywhere

that shows me anything about what your expectations are to do with that we're talking about maybe coming down to pay ask me a 2% increase but as our as our president has stated on more than one occasion to the administration not putting words in your mouth we have items in the salary lines that aren't exact salary lines that's not zerob based budgeting we have increased it every asme employee in our budget 2% so

then I ask the question of what are we going to do with the reserve account of $846,000 where does where does that come from and they say well if we have police that we need to hire then we might need to go hire but you have 13 open positions in the police department 14 I'm sorry thank you thank you uh Council 14 open positions and we're not sure what we're going to do with that I

don't have a clear explanation or any kind of a summary on what we're doing with that so when that item comes before us I'm also going to make a motion to reduce that Lia by $646,000 um to to give them a reserve account of $200,000 to work with so that might be a little over $2.3 million of suggested reductions this is by no means in my opinion going to shorthand the city's

ability to run its day-to-day operations this is the council being bold being bold in not relying on one-time free cash to balance a municipal budget that's what it is it's it's it's deciding to get away from using our savings account to pay our bills so I ask my colleagues to try to digest this and um for for now I'll yield Mr President thank you here you councelor moot motion to wave the rules

for the administration come down motion to wave the rules has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries if we could when we're talking to the administration let's talk about the numbers strictly to the budget numbers not hypothetical situations of what will happen if we don't do this so let's just talk about what the numbers and revenues will be keep it as precise

as possible if we can Mr President point of information point of order um I think if we don't talk about operations like running departments I think if we stay on numbers that would probably save time because there are this whole budget is hypothetical every item it is correct if we could not talk about how the parks department is run and we talk about finances I think would be better off I

think that's what I just said that is talk about the numbers and ACC to the budgets and not talk about hypothetical situation that's exactly what I said okay but that's okay he didn't have the micr yeah councel in SE to council di yeah just um can we start right at the top at General government and just work our way down because I'm we can do whatever we want to do you well I don't want to fall

in the Trap where we're starting on page three then we're going back to page one then we're going to page four and I think we're going to fall oh thank you oh he's esteemed I'm smart today joh told you that good we could just do that just so it's methodical and we don't lose our don't lose our place it works for me counselor okay thank you let all be methodical and I'll lose our place

tonight we'll be fine and you did say bold not bald right yeah right I'm bald thank you I take that Mr President can I just could I just I guess I agree with going down the order in terms of the appropriation but I I think the larger question that my colleague had mentioned was just the health insurance just so while that's fresh on onl can we at least just address the health insurance

like I said c we can do whatever we want if you want to start with the health insurance and go back down the line that's fine with me whatever makes it simple I'm good with that okay can I just can we have the HR um director come he he does health insurance absolutely I do want to say coun seat two has the floor right now it's okay I'll yield thank you counc counc seat 5

coun Pera yeah I would like that to be addressed on the health insurance because for years when we've sat here um chipper camara's has been very involved with the insurance and he's always comes down here and complains that we take money out of the employer fund to pay to run the city and how that is not what should be done um even if people get money back or whatever an insurance

break or what have you but that's been something that I have heard constant for the 28 years I've been here I've heard that constantly so is this something new that we're going to do so because we've done it before and then we were told we couldn't we shouldn't do you want me to sure go ahead I I guil I mean quite a few people know chipper and I definitely disagree

on many things but this is the one thing that we do agree on okay um and I've spoken publicly about how we have taken money out of health insurance and transferred it to the schools for net School spending I think that's a very bad practice I think the balance in this fund and I've spoken to our um health insurance advisers Gallagher that this the employer balance is too low for what

it should be for what's considered best practice by experts um I'm sorry that you're accounting I don't agree with because there's a timing thing I mean at at the end of May there was um 3 something million it it was down to 3.

million there's timing issues that happen the school just sent over their transfer um I don't have the dollar amount handy but that account should have more than $10 million in it so that we stopped the practice of taking money from that account just to meet net School spending that is not that is not a good practice and even at 10 million it's not at the ideal place because that's when you're self-insured you

should be able to smooth so you don't have large ups and downs and we're trying to be able to do that with the with the um the employees so right now what's in the employee side of the trust fund is 9 million Milli 9 million and I mean if they're only contributing 25% of it what does that tell you where our balance should be yeah and we don't have that we've never had that

no i y Mr President thank you counc Council T1 you did have your hand up correct I did thank you Mr President so um I did share the third quarter budget just in case you U third budget quarter let me try this again quarter three budget reports for you uh that my colleague had mentioned so I don't I don't necessarily disagree with my colleague and I think everybody uh in the council chamber

would agree that you know we we do need to get away from the onetime monies um and I applaud them for you know looking in and diving into the the health insurance uh line items but can you just speak a little bit more to uh the third quarter budget analysis that you presented so the ending balance is showing 8.5 million but when when you look at excess Revenue over expenditures it's really

1.6 is that well so there's there yeah that's it's 1.6 correct correct so that's this is a timing thing I mean there's it doesn't just happen evenly throughout the year yep um and I I'm not as familiar with like the timing of when everything comes in no I I recognize that I'm sure we've got and I don't know what the ibnr number is going to be well that's the other thing if run out claims

so you've got 60 days of run out claims um it's just it's a more complicated issue than just being able to annualize over this and again we could have a really bad year and I think it's it's very disappointing when you have to go and ask employees to do double digit increases and the whole point of having self- insurance is that you're supposed to be able to smooth that out and right

now we're not in a position to be able to do that we've been very lucky because we have a young population at the school department where we have the majority of you know I mean it's obviously the biggest part of our Workforce and we should be building up that balance and again I'm I'm not going to waver on that on my opinion because I've spent count L years working with Self insurance and

when I got here I was very disappointed in where our balance was so I I I think and I I don't disagree with you and I don't I don't think my colleague disagrees with you in terms of making sure that we have a a balance that makes the most sense and I and I think when we start talking about financial policies I think that's a policy that you know the city council should um really kind of

approve at your recommendation to make sure that we're all on the same page for the stabilization accounts the uh you know especially for the uh employee trust fund the employer trust fund but with regards and I think you said $10 million and and I'm not sure if this is what what you meant but what is I mean I think the rule of thumb is probably three months worth of of claims coming

in so is that is that the $10 million number that you're coming up with or can you tell me what three months worth of claims and I know it's a it's a moving Target probably be about seven and a half million SE three months is seven and a half million yeah about I'd have to double check but okay and obviously self insured that can Spike that can be right lower but

generally when we you know this this this account goes down to like barely $2 million at times no no I and I recognize that and I I think for the people for the folks at home that are probably not familiar with being self-insured and what that means typically when we pay for health insurance it's it's a policy it's a right um payment here the city has to pay for all the claims that

coming exactly um so that's we we we are bearing the burden right 7 and a half milon would be ER okay um so in terms of that so you're saying right now we only have the 1.5 million my colleague well I'm saying it I know like um I pul had the May 31st number I pulled and it was like 3.5 million and was the was the appropriation that we

typically have in the uh for the year so so obviously for fiscal year 25 we're suggesting so there 37.7 has that all been transferred into the employer trust fund so this is Alo I mean we a practice that we started when I um got here was that we are actually transferring the entire appropriation over there's been times in previous years that the entire appropriation was not transferred over

MH so this year it has been uh I don't um we transferred over evenly so I'm not do it's done monthly so it's we probably have one or two transfers to do okay all right but so it's it's it's caught up if you if you spread it over the 12 month yeah we we we actually spread that over you know monthly what we transfer over so the uh three months claims at $7

million so what was the 10 million that you're talking about in terms of trying is that just a target number that you're looking for no so you can do three months of claims or you can do uh you know a percentage of you know an average and we we have and I don't have the number because I wasn't asked for it but um we did speak to Gallagher about this who's who's the

health insurance adviser that the city uses and I thought it was I'd have to get the exact number but it's around 10 million at least and then you're when you when you made the statement in terms of asking the employees to I guess to see a double digit increase that's that's due to the fact that you wouldn't be able to sell funds like holidays or bring down use some of that that funds to to reduce the

correct the year-over-year increase to smooth over your year-over-year increases okay so we don't have spikes for to our employees so can you I guess and maybe I'll I'll yield at this point and if my colleague wants to ask specific questions he can he can ask those questions but if you can just kind of articulate I mean you heard what he what he had mentioned so I'm just curious to

see what you have to say about if if we do reduce the uh you know the budget by $2.3 million um and make that 35.4 million dollar what what's the impact I think that's a very dangerous impact because there's assumptions that are being made that you you can't annualize the insurance so I I don't I'd be scared that we would not possibly have enough money to pay claims one or two months so

I don't I mean that's not a a best practice right but if that were the case we we could you could always come back and ask for a appropriation from stabilization right in terms of making those transfers well the hope is to not be taking money from stabilization no no I re I recognize that but I I think if what I guess what I'm saying is if the intent is trying to reduce the budget to

get rid to eliminate the use of onetime monies so can I yeah good all right so yes one time monies um but when you when you actually end up with a surplus that we have you're you're not actually using those onetime monies because you're replenishing them so you when you budget you budget based on unknowns and you and you plan for the for what's the worst or the average and so that's why you do

that but we've been able to not have to actually use those onetime monies the last two years so I think that needs to be taken into account because we've actually had a surplus so again you budget for you know you want you want a budget for contingencies and actually I mean can I go on because so as far as the reserve fund under the Mass General Law chapter I think it's 40 you you're not allowed

general stabilization or you could have spec specific stabilization funds we're not at the point now where we can actually start having multiple stabilization funds because in the past we've had itemized stabilization funds but that's all right I just want to make sure you can assign yeah you can assign special purpose stabilization just want to make sure I know I mentioned it to

the mayor and I just wanted to make sure that I was correct and knowing that we could do that so I'm going to I'm going to yield for now in terms of the the health and then I'll come back for the line item thank you councelor counc 6 coun thank you Mr President so just so we're clear there's a difference between the employee and the employer trust account okay what the what the what the

what the hesitancy in the past has been the city going to the employee trust fund okay that has been a practice of the past I think the city can't touch that account right without without getting approval from the um PEC uh PEC right but there if if the PEC allows to do that with the votes that are there appointed by mayor's office they could essentially do that I don't know that

they could do that they could do plan design they could do things to change the plan to lower expenses to lower the cost but I don't think that they could transfer money to the city to pay those they actually cannot because you can only use it for health insurance reasons right so my my point is excuse me one second con Whoever has a fan on that's a little pounding noise can we just check

the fans guys whoever's there's a there's a pounding noise in the background something's banging okay thank you thank you so I just wanted to make it clear there's a difference between the employee and the employer trust fund just so that we're aware there's been apprehension about that in the past so I am taking this position and if my colleagues don't want to support it but that's fine but you will

have excess money in this account even even if we do if we do this you're going to have excess money in the employer account to play pay claims going into fiscal year 2025 you will have the money there it's not like we're wiping you clean so again if we wanted do what's best practice we would have a balance in there of at least three months of claims at a minimum and what you're suggesting

is we wouldn't have that but you don't have you haven't had it all year this year so why all of a sudden do we need to have it now I'm just asking I I don't mean I don't like I mean you know you said that there was so I just don't I don't like to gamble with um with something like that I I don't think it's a good idea so

then where where would we be able to find money in a budget to not utilize onetime money to balance it so I prepare we prepared a budget with the administration and this is the budget that we prepared and we feel that this is the budget that's needed right okay well look I I'll I'll wait for this item to come back up if the council doesn't want to do it that's

fine how much did you get back from the school department for your school Grant reimbursement this year you you mentioned you you received it yeah I don't have that I don't know that off the top of my head all right but in on average for the last three fiscal years you received $1.4 million we take that into account if you look at that page well no it's not it's not taken into

account here not there if you look at the appropriation and what we transfer over I see that so then we actually start out with a much higher number and then we we actually reduce those that we recover and that's how we get to the appropriation right but if I look to your actuals which is the only thing I can look at for the last couple fiscal years I see that you we didn't include

it because we didn't receive it in March we're going to end up having in Revenue over $42 million in the employer trust fund then with expenses of 42 million on average and that's conservative so you're going to have ample money to do that and we don't have to use onetime money to balance the budget we don't necessarily have to make the motion to reduce the budget by 2.3 we could take

um we could take one we could we can balance it out from the the utilization of the reserve account so we can we can reduce it by $1.6 million um instead because I hope that we can res reduce our Reserve account to 200 instead of $846,000 that but there's no clear explanation of what we're going to do with it again I thought I did address that you're not Mass General does not allow you to itemize and

specify what a reserve fund would be used for because for unforeseen you don't know the exact amount in 2018 I think they had $200,000 in their Reserve account to use FY 2018 when I go all the way back all the other years they they bloated it up with 2 million 2.3 because there was collective bargaining that was outstand and that mated to have been closed so this isn't the first time the

reserve account would have $200,000 in it do you can we I would appreciate some small acknowledgement of the the the stop the the the the the the realization that we continue to use onetime money to balance our budget I want to get away with that I want to get away from that I'm sure you do too Miss Alman but candidly we continue to do it year over-year and I'm going to tell you this

chamber is going to be packed with people next year if we have to lay off police and fire if we can't afford to pay for diamond we might get through this budget fine but what are we all going to be saying next year when there's not a seat to be had in this building and we're all getting phone calls because tough decisions need to be made that's what I'm trying to say here

nobody wants to talk about this right now because it's easy nobody's paying attention let's just get it let's get the thing passed but I want to look a little deeper because tough decisions need to be made and I know you know it because you've acknowledged it on more than one occasion so what do we do there's nothing to do other than the council or the administration send a new appropriation order down or reduce the

budget if we can to stop using onetime money I'm going to if we if we approve the budget fine approve it do whatever you want to do do okay but I'm just going to tell you I will remind you all next year when this chamber is packed with people and what are we going to do how what are we going to cut because what happens year-over-year and my colleagues who have been here a very

long time can tell you in a test to this is that they they put the city council every year when tough decisions need to be made in a corner well counselors if you don't approve this I'm not saying this Administration has done it because you haven't been put in this situation before but prior administrations looking back at history it's counselors well if you don't pass this budget you're going

to have to lay off police officers and firefighters those that's that's the real the reality of where we were and where we are today I yield thank you councelor any further questions can I just point of information C1 um so my colleague keeps talking about the reserve fund what what page is the reserve fund on uh it is under the there's no point of information Mr President if I may answer his question

sure there's no actual tab for it it's the appropriation order on page seven okay so I guess I guess my question I just need clarification because because I know the CFO has mentioned um we cannot do a line item for the reserve which I agree with but I don't know through you Mr President to my colleague in C6 I don't I don't think he's looking to break out the reserve account right I think the reserve

account is for a one- day rainy day unexpected expens no I I I will intend to make a motion to reduce Reserve account to 200,000 but that's that's the difference he's not looking to actually break out buckets to say you know $100,000 for negotiations it's a lump sum that's right okay yes we can't do no no I I I recognize that I guess I was getting confused with the statements

that Bridget was making in terms of we can't itemize it gotcha that's so I we were asked like specifically what was making it up yes okay so I do um want address that so we do have collective bargaining we also have negotiations ongoing regarding recycling costs to dispose of um I think what else we have going on so yeah so so there's um at least three uh contracts with different um vendors who

are part of the uh Municipal Solid Waste and Recycling process that we have in place uh that we are working on uh either trying to renegotiate or um possibly negotiate for the first time if we're moving to a different vendor uh some of at least one of those expiring uh this year uh the biggest one expiring in two years uh but there is at least even an effort uh to look at that um so

there's the possibility that there needs to be uh funds available uh to do that again the reserve fund is all about possibility as opposed to certainty if it was certainty it would be in the budget um as a line item uh in addition to that um when we started this uh and frankly still without a um um without a collective bargaining agreement agreed upon uh by the union membership um there

was the belief that we could end up with something more than 2% 2% was put in there as a conservative estimate uh but the reserve fund would be used if it ends up being more than 2% uh in addition to that uh if there are certain sections whether regardless of of union or non-union for that matter if there are certain sections that need to be brought up in order to to uh recruit and

retain people in the event of of an emergency we've seen that uh I think a really good example is uh last year um the water department found it impossible to hire people they had uh five to seven to eight vacancies at a time uh there was a revision it came before the council um as part of that Enterprise F I know it's not part of this budget but there was a revision to those wages same

thing with the parks there was a revision to the park wages um some of those things happen off contract because we can't wait 6 months uh to be able to bring people in um I'm not saying any of those things I know for a fact are going to happen or that I can put an exact dollar amount but to have only $200,000 uh on that is um is concerning in addition uh with our uniform services

uh that's where the potential buyouts can be significant now you've seen in those budgets there are some areas there are some buyout numbers uh that are budgeted uh here and there um for anticipated retirements uh but there's always the possibility you have retirements you did not anticipate you've all heard the fire chief come before you the police chief come before you and say we think we have this many

retirements we think we're going to lose this many people and sometimes it's less and sometimes it's more and the problem there is there's a domino effect right you you you pay that person out for their ACR time uh and they have a s they have an acur time um scenario that's that's often much more robust has a much greater amount attached to it than um a normal City employee not to say city employees

can't acrw significant vacation and sick time and get paid out for that and we can't always budget for that because we don't know when they're leaving um we try we try very hard to identify people that might be retiring and here's the thing once that happens there's a domino effect you have a number of of officers number of firefighters whatever that all get promoted up and now you have an open

slot and you have to hire so there is there needs to be monies available for that uh to reduce that down to 200,000 uh basically uh ties our hands uh I would argue respectfully that more than tying our hands it really and and I would say this is the case also when it comes to the uh salary light items that we talked about before this really intrudes into the executive function the

executive function is to set salaries and give wages um and give you know raises if necessary or um if appropriate uh and to essentially defund our ability to do that uh I would argue moves this Council from uh a body uh that is has purpose for appropriation to one that is is now uh attempting to uh usurp the ability of the executive branch not intentionally but it certainly is the

effect uh and I would argue that that's uh really inappropriate and that really kind of shakes the the very Foundation of of the Democracy thank you coun c one you still have the floor thank you um I I I hear what you're saying um in terms of being handcuffed I I guess I'm trying to find a happy medium in terms of what my colleague is requesting right so he he's he's looking

to he which rightfully so the use of onetime monies and I and I hear what you're saying I guess actually let me let me back up so on page seven we've got the use of the $2.3 million is is being utilized through free cash is that free cash is that FY 23 free cash or is that going to be the FY 24 assumed it's the 23 cash that was certified for 24 all right so free cash

that's currently in hand correct so what is stopping us from just taking the $2.3 million from free cash making an appropriation to stabilization account we have the money and based on those assumptions knowing full well that those types of things may arise and that we we have to give you the flexibility to be able to number one negotiate with unions deal with the recycling contracts

things of that nature at TH at that point based on again the budget being a living document coming back before us for an appropriation now the only difference is is that we either we approve it now and it's a simple majority or obviously coming out of stabilization is just going to require a two-thirds right so the the threshold in terms of an approval coming out is a little bit higher but outside of that if

if we're committed to saying that okay we we're not building a budget with onetime money is here but if you need it let's come back we we tap into the reserve accounts I don't know where the votes are going to go but as it currently stands the 800,000 that's that's in here $846,000 out then we make a transfer from the stabilization account that you would typically come down before us anyways and and I understand the

flexibility I I I I understand you want to be able to have that flexibility with regards to you know either just making internal transfers without having to come down to the council um you know if we were if we were a town I I think I might be pushing back on this a little bit more because you only have town meeting e dep depending on which Community you have either once or twice

twice a year we meet every at least twice twice a month so the ability to be able to make those transfers are pretty quick um so is is there is there any I guess room to be able to kind of reduce the two.3 and and live with the appropriation coming back down to the council and getting that appropriated to the stabilization account I don't think that I mean this is again we're

transitioning from I mean you know where the city was before Co and we're transitioning now away from Co and we feel and I feel this is a bridge I mean we feel we put forward expenditures that are you know we spend a lot of time on that and I I I stand by it I I do think that this is the approp budget I don't think that those assumptions that are can be made and

again we feel that this is like bridging us to you know it's covering there's over 800 there's like about 800,000 that's going to cover the diamond interest payment for the short-term ban we're meeting with diamond again on Thursday um and I don't I just I I just I think that doing that would not be again what when you know when you go through all these and you spend years of budgeting and what's

best practice what we put forward we feel is is you know a good solid conservative budget okay so I think the flexibility like you said that's really the key to the whole thing because because ideally what you just said which is well you know we meet every two weeks you know this should happen quickly if if that if that is in fact what happens you know probably not a big deal but I think we

all know that you know once you know an issue like this goes before the council there's always the possibility for something to be you know politicized or or you know there's certain there's personal taste that get involved there um and you know all of a sudden something that that you know needs to happen um arguably that should only take a couple weeks all of a sudden you know

there's an objection or it gets you know sent to a committee and and all of a sudden We're Off to the Races a couple months later um you know really putting you know uh significant operations and and uh and other uh needs um at risk um that's my concern uh I I think think there's a reason why the things that this Council throughout the year you know has oversight over direct oversight

and must approve are prescribed in ordinance and in the charter and there's other things that the Administration has the ability to do within the budget are also prescribed in the charter I think there's a reason why those things need to balance each other out and that's my that's my biggest concern yeah listen I I I'm on both sides right so I I I re I recognize the flexibility that you want

from as an administrator as the administration and I think you should have that flexibility right because you got to be able to run the dayto day I I I understand that I think it just comes down to the philosophical approach when it comes to putting together and I and I think you would all agree um this budget that you know eliminating the use of onetime money is only going to strengthen our financial position right

we had this conversation with the Water and Sewer Department you know the rates were going high we pivoted a little bit away from the argument we're making now about eliminating the onetime money and we included retained earnings in there to minimize the impact to the rate pays we were having those conversations for years saying that if we're not going to consistently go up on the rates that at

some point we were going to get to the point that we were at now and that we were going to have significant impacts to the rirs so we've seen that I guess what I would what I would urge and I've I've said this before um is we're not as a legislative body responsible for putting policies together that's that's you folks I've asked um this Administration not with you here uh but a fire a

previous Finance director uh in terms of Finance policy uh Financial policies putting together an actual written document together so that as a city council when we're going through this budget process we can go through the financial policies and we can look at least from our standpoint the most important Financial policies for us are going to be your stabilization accounts right your uh employer trust funds so

that we can all come to an agreement as to the minimum balance right so that we're not having this conversation back and forth in terms of whether or not we want to reduce the employer account because we know what the minimum balance needs to be and we've all essentially agreed on that so I would just ask for some insight to make sure that we're all on the same page in terms of what those

balances look like um so I would I would urge the administration to try to put something together and I'm not suggesting that you come together with a you know 100 page Financial document but I would I would suggest that at least from a city council standpoint if we can get these uh stabilization accounts the trust funds um revolving accounts or whatever it may be um a policy surrounding that so that when we having

these budget deliberations or any Financial deliberation moving forward that we can point to something um and so we're not having this back and forth um yeah you so you're looking and I was a little surprised that there was not any here yet you're looking for like a fund balance policy right so you know stabilization a general stabilization account would be that a minimum balance

would be 3% of and I'm just throwing out a number that would that that's high I I I recognize that I I no I I I know it's low it's usually 5% 10% yeah so I I recognize that but in terms of where we stand from a financial standpoint even 3% is going to is going to be significant right so it's going to be you know two three4 million or whatever

the case may be I'm I'm just throwing out a percentage I don't that's for you folks to make that determination as to what it is but I think we should have some input to see you know yes we're in agreement with that so we're not arguing on the floor in terms of where this money is going to come from let's reduce this um it's just going to make things a

little bit easier so with that I I just got to give us some thought in terms of how I'm going to proceed if a motion is made with regard to the obviously the reserve fund uh the one the use of one time monies and then uh the health insurance as well with that comment so I just want to notate that I mean the last this Administration has um we're not just spending all of our expenditures

just to spend the budget we are very methodical we are very conservative and we hold people accountable and so that's why there's I mean the turn backs are not just from have not been just from salaries but they are from also expenditures because we are very cautious about what we spend and we are trying to to do the right thing and so I think that's important to notate thank you you did you floor

so I just want to point out one thing as Council didn't mention I don't know how many councilors and I forgot about this but when if we were to transfer from the stabilization account is not just a majority vote it's a two-thirds vote which makes it more challenging and it raises the bar just make sure people understand that if we go down that road and later on have to supplement the

budget and take from that account it's not as simple as a majority vote it's a two-thirds vote which just makes a bit more difficult c seat six cing U Mr aan when the the city council uh when you closed your collective bargaining with the police and fire this current fiscal year that we're in now where did the transfer come from what account it depends um I can answer that

yeah it's not all the same place so we actually because of the timing of um free cash we transferred it out of stabilization but then we put it break back in as soon as we had free cash certified right so you that was the free cash from 2023 the free yeah we put it back that you got 24 right so you it isn't the first time that if a council has a

need to move money out of stabilization for the purposes of high insurance claims for example whatever it is it wouldn't be the first time it happened it wouldn't be the first time a collective bargaining unit uh negotiated and we didn't have money set reserved in the budget I don't want to say the word hidden but reserved in the budget like this isn't it wouldn't be the first time

this is this isn't like we're starting something new here so again it still still it still would not be a best practice I mean what you're suggesting is to put this budget so below what we're saying we need to to run the city and to pay the expenditures and I just I mean I I don't understand why you'd want to put it because I don't want to use free cash anymore to balance budgets I

don't want to use onetime money to balance our budgets anymore that's why and so and I again when you're using onetime money but then if you actually run the legal deficit that you're allowing us to do then I would agree with you but we have not actually run a deficit we've actually not ended up having to use that free cash because we were able to not what makes you think

this transfer uh reduction of call it a million dollar or $1.6 million is going to make the city run in a deficit when you're going to have 5 to6 million in your employer trust account even if we do this how are you going to be running it a def I don't know where you're assuming that we're going to have 5 to six million in not account well it's it's it's it's basic

math based on your you can't do it like that because it's a there it's not evenly done throughout the year well I could I could make that argument too by saying when I asked you earlier in the budget process right where did you come up with your number for New Growth you said to me that you are going to be taking the last three fiscal years of new growth and taking the average that

was the year number we looked we looked at we looked at what caused the new growth and we looked at the The Last 5 Years and the majority New Growth was 3 years ago you went to 18 months you changed the the the assessment Pro period I don't know if that was 21 or 20 for 20 was either for 21 or for 22 it was before I got here yep so that's what

you that you're allowed to do that one time right that was done and then the rest of the significant growth came from utility companies so that's personal property that then depreciates faster so again you're it's did not all just happen in in the same categories of new growth and unfortunately we had our the assessor down here and was ready to speak about that it just wasn't asked so

again we we went over that with our um the chairman of our assessor who has I think everybody here knows uh Mr Gonzales who's got I I don't know 40 years of experience and our in our City Assessor who's very experienced and that's the number that we felt comfortable you know budgeting great I'll yield for now if we can go through Mr President if nobody else has a chance to speak the starting from General

government working down and then I'll make a motion where I see fit if my colleagues support it great if not it's fine whatever I yield thank you C CC CC Samson do I have a question about the reserve fund um we heard a lot that the reserve fund was 2% of the apme contracts coming down we don't know what it's 2% 2% 2% so if we look at the apme

contracts um and we add them up just those two% of those employees in the we're looking at 150,000 give or take $100,000 for um the increase in salaries that were not given but they're in the budget just in case so we could go up that's 250 um so I do feel that if we give and take a little that a 250 in that Reserve account is not that bad of a deal I mean

especially if we have if you have to come back and there was a problem then we could go um through the stabilization fund so I I think to say that where handcuffing you was a little bit unfair um a reduction here is a direct savings to the tax pay excuse me Council Council C has the floor can we please if you have a conversation just please it's a it is a direct savings to the taxpayers

so to say that we need this budget at this rate because we like the flexibility your flexibility is actually going to cost the taxpayers money let me just finish my view on this if we can um cut back a little bit in this Reserve fund for the because of what we were what I was hearing was that we have this 2% that could come down for these apme contracts but if we do the math

those it's only about 150 and that's on on the high end and if we and I'm giving a 100,000 just for those other raises that may not be given but could be going up that is another 100 that's 250 so I do think we're not far off by saying that 200,000 250 um is there and that 846 could be a little padded and that that could be a direct savings to our

public and so you know I I do want to um say that saying that we're handcuffing you by that and that's not it's just I feel is just not a fair statement and that we could be quite all right with uh 250,000 in that Reserve Reserve fund and um there is money if there was you know a problem down the road but but I have to agree that it that could be a little bit

padded so that's my take on it with that I yield can I respond thank you abely so um assuming that that's going to be a sa a direct savings to the taxpayers it doesn't work that way because that that's making the assumption that you're reducing the tax levy so reducing the budget doesn't doesn't equate to a direct savings to the taxpayers I can disagree it's just not the way it works I I mean no well

councel seat for C I'm sorry se you want to make comment yeah just just briefly so you know um we certainly disagree in the fast yeah um and we can and we can um you say and uh so I I do I do have to say I kind of Stand By The the handcuffing metaphor um and uh and the reason I do is you know this is what we're doing here is is really just a

massive version of what people across the city are trying to do in their own homes you know every year every month every week which is you know trying to create a budget that they can live within and they can do the things they need to do and the idea of doing that without any kind of safety in it without any kind of ability to absorb surprises sometimes there there's folks

out there that have to do that right but that is a terrible way to live that is a dangerous way to live right not being able to absorb the unexpected things that happen in life and the idea of of having this um this 875 $5,000 to be able to absorb the unexpected things without taking away from other things is you know I I would argue it's not it's not responsible it's not padding it's

it's actually the opposite it's it's responsible because it it means that we can try to live within our means regardless of what happens I do try to approach every day as if I'm gonna be fine as if nothing bad's gonna happen but here I am uh no I'm just kidding um no and but and and and for the shank thank you thank you co um this is really between the handcuffing and the shanking this is

really this is taking a turn my my former wife is coming out here um no and I I apologize for digressing all all I'm trying to say is that um the the idea that there is that little bit of extra that I agree you know doesn't have a bunch of specific Lineum say this is how we're going to spend it but it is the it is the thing that if you are able to do

it you want to do so you can absorb the unexpected things that happen in life and if there was ever a place where life happens it's right here things unexpected happen and and we we try our very best to be able to deal with it so I I will go with the your statement you say all the time reasonable people can disagree and you are very reasonable and we can disagree here that I feel that

that number is padded and it's high and that is you're not going to change my view on that and I and I think that right there is where um we may be able to have a a direct saving so with that so go can I just make one more I mean it's the state itself has not even finalized their budget and again I mean we also get you know our there's numbers

from the state in our CH cherry sheet that change through the whole year charter school money so I just want to I mean you know it's this is not like abnormal and what we I still feel that we did a you know put something in place that's best practice do you councel I do council president thank you any further questions just C4 Council yes I was um M Akens um I had my hand raised before you

spoke but you took the words out of my mouth so I don't think it's a a bad budget practice to use onetime money as a cushion just in case of an emergency is that's what we're talking about here right correct I mean it's just a safety net adjust in case safety net and especially the health insurance fund yeah Health one thing I did learn over all these years and I'm not a financial expert is

that that's that's you don't touch that um so in terms of your comment I did mention to you last night that I do have office space available at 55 Highland I'm glad to be here okay I'm doing thank you councel my point my thought process it's it's not a real bad budget it's a good budget practice so it's not it's it's onetime money that's not being spent and utilized it's used

as a safety net and that's the point for a very important line I yes I thank you than you there you no further questions Mr council president will there be an opportunity to for those of us at the table to discuss any of the line items as they come up or should we should we have that conversation now about anything that might be because there's something that uh Council repon brought up that I'd

like to address if I can but it may this may not be the time I just want to ask I'm not I'm not sure how the council wants to do this usually we don't have the administration down the table while we're doing line items and if there's something that you want if you people want to just talk about now whatever you're looking to do and see if they want to address any questions or is

everyone comfortable and you don't need any further questions or clarifications or I'd like to make a motion that the administration stay here through the appropriation um in case councilors have questions okay motion made is that okay with Seth is that okay with you and brid just to stay here while we do the appropriation count in case you want to address something you can I have nowhere to be

um I truly uh truly have nowhere to be so yeah fine thank you I will state this at 10 o'clock we are going to end this meeting and if it goes beyond 10 o'clock we'll be back here tomorrow just your number okay counc C2 counc before we start I have one question we do need to approve the appropriation from the Law Department that was given to us tonight M we need

to so just so we don't forget that because of the because money was transferred but the the bottom amount the amount is the same yeah yeah we get the new page so we didn't we didn't add to the appropriation but last night they had to move money so we need to not to we need to remember to vote to approve that correct the the whole page was changed yes yeah we're going to go you

have a new page the whole new page we start just so we don't forget to do that that's all I'm doing is trying to remind everybody that we need to do that because it's a whole brand new page though okay you're the councelor I make the motion you for very great any questions any you want to start the yes A1 General government Alison do you want do you need to clarify that as far as the

appropriation we need first what but do we need to approve that New Order appropriation order or is it still in the same total okay it's the same total so we don't need to approve it councelor to clarify we don't need to approve the what you just spoke about the law Department because it's the same total we have the appropriation they just Chang it within their own budget but the amount didn't change so there is

no need to approve what you the Law Department that was changed today you already have that just want to clarify make sure that everybody's on the right page everybody knows what we're doing I agree gets a little tricky I'm all years counselers Mr president if the clerk could read the uh the appropriation order we can go by Madam clerk we just begin and you can pretty much go down

the first order in sequence and we'll make whatever changes at that time if there were any Mr President if nobody has any question questions for a 1 through 10 can we take those together or B one two three whatever the will of council Council make a motion if there's ones that people have um a concern about then fine we'll spend time on that motion to take item council president my motion would be that we

take uh each category individually so category a c a we take a vote on that will be a 1-10 if there's any discussion or changes then we address that and then we just move on to very good abely works for me motion to take items in each category is there a second all in favor I any opposed motion carries Madam clerk okay so we would have a 1 through 10 total amount being 4 million

$1,936 motion to adopt second motion to approve would be appropriate right motion to approve motion to approve has been made and seconded do we need we don't need V calls on this do remember CL think so all in favor I any opposed motion carries b 1 through three would for the purposes of administration would be 5,111 289 motion to approve second motion to approve has made and seconded

on the motion to approve counc C2 counc d yes um under administrative salaries I would like to uh page 113 the purchasing agent I don't think there are any of us that disagree that we need a purchasing Aiden I think we all believe we need that we should have one on board however of information I believe this is under uh financial services are we still is the motion before us for ad

sorry this is Administrative services on your right you cor I Yi motion to adopt I had it written here to b 1 through3 for the amount that the clerk read 5,1 11,289 has been motion to approve has been made and seconded Y all in favor I any opposed motion carries who who made the I made the motion second I I know Council kadim made the motion we can do it again is there a

motion to approve so moved second second all in favor I any opposed motion carries want to do it one more time just to get a straight no good c one and two for the purpose of financial services total amount being 2,329 422 motion to approve motion to approve has been made and seconded on the motion counc C2 Council Dion thank you so the purchasing agent as I said I think we

all agree we need a purchasing agent um in light of what's happened in this past year we went through ordinance creating new position we were told uh monies were going to be taken from that line item to finance the new position along with the assistant auditor that didn't happen we had a long discussion um we were told you haven't decided what you're doing you don't know when you're going to do something but

you you're you're learning and and figuring things out and how you're going to Pro proed I personally would like to reduce um I would like to make have that be a unfunded um salary item um reduce it by the 75,000 not to eliminate the position but once more as a mocker and more for accountability so that when you do finally decide what you're doing how are you're doing it if it's a full-time or a parttime

who's doing it that you will come before the council explain to us what we're finally doing with the purchasing agent put in the request for the transfer and at that point in time we would fund the position and that's my motion to reduce and that's the reason why I would like to reduce that may I speak to that briefly absolutely um so at some point early on councelor Kilby said you know

hey can you try to uh take into account some of the the thing the feedback that we give uh as you move forward and I that was a point well taken um and maybe most of all the point most importantly well taken is there's an agreement that we need a purchasing agent and that I really uh seriously miscalculated uh our ability to do that uh by committee basically um and so um in addition was

additional conversation about the reorg in uh facilities City operations uh you know Parks City cemeteries trees um so what I just just as a uh preview of Coming Attractions what I intend to do in the next several weeks uh is introduce uh for this council's consideration both that reorg as well as some treatment of the purchasing agent in reflection of what I've heard from the council um as a an assessment of

what the need is in the city so just an FYI uh I take that very seriously and you'll be hearing from the administration soon very good okay I appreciate that that um figure out I appreciate that but I can also remember when we were talking about solid waste and there was a meeting at the table um ordinance I wasn't in ordinance then I was in the audience and at that time the

ordinance committee was told in about two weeks we're going to come down with some more information about the solid waste and changes we were making and that was months ago and it hasn't happened I it commercial EXC it was with regard to the commercial crash no it was beyond that that you announced excuse me excuse me excuse me hold on we are not going to get back into for and conversations like this because there's

still hold on one second please I'm going to finish there's still 24 items on the regular city council meeting and we will ask them to come down to answer specific question with dollar amounts we're not going to go back and forth into this Tye of conversation because these are hypotheticals might happen might not explanations of what they're looking to do so if the council wants to

make the motion the councilors will vote on the motion yes or no and if there's something set that is saying that is totally wrong then you can give your input into that and you need to but to say every time someone makes a motion to reduce something for you to come up with an explanation of why it shouldn't be reduced we're going to be here know for a long time and it's probably not so my

motion is to reduce that by 75,000 thank you counc is there a second to the motion second motion has it made and seconded counc C one on the motion Mr President I I appreciate your statements but I I I think I for one just need to understand where my colleague and C2 is coming from because I don't know I think she said it she I think she spoke spoke on why she

motion she I I guess she did but then there was some back and forth but I'm I'm still I guess I still wasn't following so we can still have discussion on why she's are you suggesting we can't have discussion no no we can have discussion but I don't want to get into long drawn out explanations as to why keep to the exactly okay Council says we're going to have $50 million left over after we do

this and it's not true I think the administration should say excuse me where did you get that number from I don't think they should say well well this is what we're looking to do going forward six months from now because now we'll be here I mean that's what we do throughout the year we don't have to have that discussion right now we're on the budget line items we're going down each number if there's a discrepancy in

a dollar amount or discrepancy in something that's not being accurate they can clarify that and and I and I appreciate that and I and I want first of all I want to apologize because I was I was I was sick yesterday so I missed some of the conversation and then Wednesday I had a a meeting in in see so I apologize if I missed discussion I'm just I guess I'm confused or not

following or up to speed whatever however you want to Define it I the discussion she did she explained just before she's but I I didn't follow it though this is where I was going you want to do it again that's fine if if you don't mind I don't mind at all no that type of explanation why she's doing it it's fine right I just don't want to have the back and forth over and over

and over she made the statement he explained what he was in now we're going to go back and forth over and over that's not I I was just confused by the reorg and what's going on with the purchasing agent so I'm not sure what's going on with the and I and I do respect that so this is based on an ordinance they wanted the new position they were going to use funding from the purchasing

agent to fund that position that didn't happen instead the purchasing agent salary went up 13,000 and we the new position happened it's funded we were told that they didn't realize then that we really were going to need a purchasing agent and we had a lot of conversation in ordinance on the on the council so my I so in in my opinion it's the ifs the maybe we're talking about it it's going to happen I

would rather put that at a an unfunded position that when they do make the decision for accountability because we don't want the Mayes and then it's a different story for accountability purposes when they're ready they determine what the position is going to be they ask for the transfer this is the dollar amount this is what we're doing this is how we're handling it at that point we can just approve the

transfer and the position will be funded I don't want to fund it with all these questions in the air and not knowing what's going to happen so that's why I'm saying I want to reduce it by the 75,000 with that I yield thank you Seth and Bridget you do understand what I'm trying to say correct you feel that you need to chime in you please let us know but other than that thank you I feel

that way almost all the time but I'll try to refrain I I understand motion has been made and seconded just as a point of order Mr President is it is it clear that the motion is to reduce the financial services salaries to an amount of 1,721 92 and then the bottom number that currently shows 2, 329 422 to 2,254 422 yes and it's clear councilor just want to make it clear has it noted that way

thank you you're welcome counc good question roll call motion has been made and seconded roll call on the motion council is kadim no Dion yes Hart no Kilby no Pereira no Pony no Roso no Samson no president CRA no motion fails there a motion motion to adopt um C for finan motion to approve C for financial services second the amount of 2, 329 422 motion to approve has been made and

seconded all in favor I any opposed on a motion sorry on a motion counc SE to no I am opposed seat to oppos duly noted counselor mam clerk D yes facility minuts D1 through 4 would be for the purpose of facilities maintenance total amount being 3, 83,00 89 to approve seconded motion to approve has been made and seconded on the motion to approve Cy to okay let's see um I'm going to start

with on p uh facilities expenses um on page 139 so the electric in facilities is budgeted at $250,000 and the FY 24 third quarter budget they only used 37% of that budgeted amount so as a result of that I would like to reduce that budget by 60,000 put to bring it down to 190,000 because I don't see that they're ever going to use 75 well close to I mean uh

63% in one quarter um um so that's my motion to reduce the budget for electricity by $60,000 because that's still less that's reducing it by still less than 25% thank you Council you I do is there a second on a motion second motion May second roll call roll call point of information just so we're clear Mr President I want to make sure that we're talking about facilities expenses and we're just reducing it by

$60,000 that's what the clerk has noted exactly where the council's motion is just want to make it clear this is very important can I just counc C1 Council can I just get um is there a reason why we're so UND defunded well I guess the expenses are not so there's um I believe you may have been here when they did the amesco um solar project so right now the the credits are all going to that

account and we we've had a lot of difficulties with that whole amasco so right now the credits went to that account and that's um we're working on trying to get an actual refund check for that um so it's unfortunately not the way it accurately reflects the true electricity cost so I guess we still be getting credits so is is are we able to reduce the 60,000 I'm not so there there's a whole

another reconciliation that they're working on with the solar um I believe Al so director um Al did review that um he was prepared to discuss that I don't have that with okay so the Yi the yield of the solar farm over the past 5 years has um increasingly reduced or has decreased I guess over uh because Transformers have gone out one after another um but there has been an offset

uh and there was a delay in uh the credits for that um so basically nobody was tracking it no one really knew um because there was no continuity uh with the hols that put the solver in place uh there was no knowledge that the credits were offsetting uh what what our budget was for for electric in uh in the uh they apparently knew about it in facilities and actually went and toward

it a couple weeks ago they're replacing all the Transformers they'll be up to 100% Effectiveness within the next three months but they'll be completely offline for three months so we're going to see a total reduction in credits it just it's a little bit of a convoluted uh uh thing so I can't say for sure what the real offset is thank you motion has been made and seconded yeah I just um I have three

other um items I want to reduce but they're in salary not in expenses so you want to keep them separate absolutely okay so we'll do this one first okay motion as remain second roll call this is to reduce you have the dollar amount Madam clerk do this would be to reduce the facilities expense line item which is $2,618 340 by $60,000 correct which will reduce the three okay that's fine we can do the tolls after

roll call Council kadim yes Dion yes Hart no Kilby no Pereira no Ponty yes Roso yes Samson yes president Camaro no motion carries motion carries motion Mr President motion to uh reduce the general fund facilities salaries by $15,000 as well as $ 13,50 and then I'll I'll speak on that motion after I get acknowledged on it motion motion is made and seconded on the motion counc seat six counc Pon

thank you Mr President so under facilities salaries um I'd like to turn my colleagues attention to page 141 yep there it is Page 141 so um I I exception as I mentioned before on uh again this isn't about the person who I think very fondly of um the director of operations has in the or this the administration put in the budget $155,000 for salaries however in contract um it's $140,000 I don't really feel like giving

$155,000 of a raise or wiggle room to do a raise in addition to that my other motion is for the clerk to receive an on call stien of $1 13,50 I just don't feel that that's appropriate so my motion is to reduce the facilities salaries by

$28,155 6699

may I speak on us yeah one second I yield yeld thank you counc C to do you want to chime in as well yes please um so I have a uh a third salary item should we do all the salary items at once so they can address them all at the same time so I'm going to speak on the 13,000 um yes it's it's a un in the coun councelor honestly he already made the

motion to reduce it by 13,000 and he all right I was just going to add to why it should be reduced all right um there's two part-time positions on that same page um the security guard part-time and the PM security guard that's wanted um my my reason for reducing both of those is because neither position has ever gone through ordinance and it's they've never been approved by the council so

I mean so the fact that they're not an ordinance and not positions um I would reduce the salary line item by another $ 39,5 3976 which brings us to a total of 67,5 18976 and reduces salaries to 1,11 17,1 15924 4 cents that's an amendment do you yield councelor I do counc five counc PR well I personally feel having those two individuals here from 8 in the morning till 4 in the afternoon and they work

part-time helps when we have people that are coming into City Hall and want direction we don't have anybody in the telephone boosts anymore if it should go to ordinance then fine let's put in something for it to go to ordinance and be put in as an ordinance but you're throwing the baby out with the bath water that's not I mean we need somebody here to help people with that I yield

thank you coun Mr aens do you want to address any of the just very briefly so I did uh speaking about the uh the head administrative clerk um so understanding that we put that in as an on call stip and that was a mistake I've spoken about that before I'm not going to belabor that point it really is more of a service out of rank uh and you can see throughout the budget in HR in the

auditor's office in several other offices in solid waste there are folks that that function in a similar kind of higher level capacity basically somewhere between the highest level clerk but below a manager uh and that's what this person started to do um several years ago in 2022 when we did the reorg we uh had a person serving three purposes uh that was reduced to one purpose purchasing uh one of their

previous roles had been facilities when they were taken out of facilities they refused to do any further facilities work they refused to pick up any paper that actually had to do with facilities and there were literally hundreds and hundreds of records that had to do with closing out the dery project chapter 149 construction um contracts chapter 30b uh other purchasing and so this clerk uh

you know I didn't know her from Adam uh you know just a clerk doing her job um she seemed interested and willing to pick that stuff up taught herself um and has since over the last couple years uh become kind of the essential go-to for from the origination of 149 building projects for both the schools and the city uh you know remodeling building the whole thing uh Soup To Nuts beginning to

end uh has been an essential asset in that uh Department um and so uh Council Dean and I spoke about this uh before the meeting uh if you actually look in the 24 budget her salary is is actually it's incorrect here it should be her annual salary should be listed as something other than what it is that's in itself a problem but the 13,50 for a total of 58,60

important uh and I would ask that you consider that um when you consider uh essentially uh reducing her salary because she has been getting service at a rank uh prior to this budget um and then finally Mr Ola the director of City operations he started in January of 2023 um for 140,000 that was his contract amount his contract did not include any set raises the mayor at that time uh determined that he wanted to be

able to renegotiate that every year uh ordinarily some small increase is um what it happens traditionally for any uh whether it's a asme Teamster police or management employee uh there is some increase uh and that's it can either be negotiated or set he received nothing for fy2 24 um and this budget will cover January of 25 so what we're talking about is two potential raises to wipe

out the 15,000 entirely one he's not getting 15,000 raises but two is to mean that he has there is no ability for the city to give him any increase um I would argue that 3% and 3% modest uh would is about $852 total um to wipe it out entirely means that uh no increase until uh January of 2026 which given the amount of work that he's done I think you've all seen the

condition of the building you've seen um the the efforts that he's put in uh I think would really be a a pretty sad statement um about how we uh treat our managers whether they make more than folks or not I'm just let you know thank you thank you can I coun 6 has his hand do you have your hand up councel first yes thank you Mr she he had his hand up

councelor and yielded sorry I'll yield to my colleague and see too oh I thought she healed I thought you did too coun C to go ahead so I feel like we're in that back and forth we are so I don't cons so in this $113,000 stien I don't consider it um um out of rank number one in the qualifications it's a willingness to work overtime hours when required that's part of it performs related work as

assigned by director of project manager maintains construction contracts and documentation for all change orders reviews and proc and processes invoices for facilities maintenance creates requisitions and maintains purchase orders for city and state contracts maintains construction contracts for accuracy of bills preparation of Bill schedules payment history responsible for the methods and procedures used in

performing account maintenance and fiscal reporting functions verify bills from suppliers with purchase orders apply accounting principles and maintaining Financial accounts and Records prepare summaries of expenditures and balances and appropriation ability to utilize comai Statewide contract program and lastly a knowledge of Massachusetts procurement laws to me it sounds like she's doing

her job not um out of rank and and this is uh from attorney Ramsey with respect to stiens so-called there's no definition of the term either in the charter or our ordinances however if the stien is a payment to an employee to increase their salary for the same tasks as contained in their job descript description it is considered salaries and wages regardless of what it is called and needs to be addressed by

ordinance and that's my argument for reducing that stien with that I yield thank you con six cons did you have your hand up you wanted uh I'm good thank you okay uh Mo roll call um coun c one coun I guess just in in terms of the director of operations his contract it was a three-year contract right yes so and it was CPI nope um no CPI no set raises so how do you

so upon negotiation so you just negotiate the the increase annually that was apparently the intent so what do we have the the 155 is is what's the percentage um 2.5 CPI so his C salary is this this accur is 140 is that that's the document you gave us 140 is his C salary beginning January 2023

so if you did 5% 5% you're probably close to that 15,000 it's 14,000 so you look at 155 so it's a almost 11% increase you don't feel good is that is that the intent is that no no there was just no it was it was an estimate uh based upon you know not having the information at the time um there there hadn't been a conversation with the mayor about what his intent was uh normally that happens

between the employee and the mayor on an individual basis all right um I think my colleague brings up a good point I just you know from from a consistency standpoint that three and a half% is what you're looking at for a CPI and I know the CPI index could the Consumer Price Index could fluctuate higher than the three and a half% but that's that's what was budgeted so um can I just through you Mr President

to my colleague in and C2 so you're you're looking to eliminate the entire amount going back to the 140 is that what is that what the motion was um colleague in SE six said okay the mo the motion was to reduce $15,000 15,000 for the director and 13 5 for the statement so through you to my to my colleague was it your intent not to provide a rais in

there or no I was I if I can now then um I I'll y to my colleague he text thank you I actually listened to Mr aen quite well and I thought you did a really good job of rearticulating your your sentiments about the director position thank you sir so I I feel at this point like I would like to amend my motion to include and I also um agree 50% with your definition on the stien

50% I don't think I you know it's better than nothing I appreciate it so I want to revise my motion to reduce the facilities salaries director by 10,000 leaving you $5,000 in this fiscal year to work on and I will remove my motion to remove uh to reduce the stien so to be clear that the $113,000 correct so to be clear I'd like to amend uh my motion to reduce General uh for the general

fund for facility salaries by $110,000 only thank you sir is there a second motion second you why don't we take we don't need a roll call on the amendment motion to amend has been made and seconded all in favor roll what's that there there's three that's what I was I'm confused point of information I was we need to clarify the motion so councelor Ponte had the original motion which he has just

withdrawn withdrawn and placed it at 10,000 but councelor Dion had an additional motion that she was reducing two positions that's what I was asking can I just ask my colleague and see2 just to withdraw her withraw your let's do one motion at a time from now on correct C would you withdraw your motion uh for now for the time being yeah except I don't yeah I don't agree with

the stip and the change in the motion to stip him but yeah I'll I'll do it for now okay so the motion now that we have Madam clerk is just one motion to reduce by by $10,000 correct roll call and it was seconded we don't need a roll call you want a roll call I think we we want call no problem roll call well you always say people need to get more money everyone understands the motion

$10,000 this is roll call on the motion on the amendment on the amendment to reduce by $10,000 correct councelor is kadim yes Dion yes Hart no Kilby yes Pereira no pony yes Roso yes Samson no president C yes Le D1 would be from the general fund for facility salaries in the amount of 1,747 49 motion to approve second motion to approve has made and seconded roll call this is with the 10 to be clear

this is with a $10,000 reduction correct I don't point of order I I don't want to be a pain I try so now we're going to let Council two make her motions no no so I I just want to say if we vote on that is she able to then make her motion to reduce it further no no okay so okay so so let's go back then are there any other amendments to be made or any

reductions to be made to this item one Council C2 Council Dion so again um one of those part-time positions does not have an individual in the position so you're not throwing the baby out with the bath water the first position which there is an individual who I happen like very much was originally funded with Opera funding I would see no reason why they couldn't continue to fund that with

Opera funding until till they went through the proper channels established the positions and then requested the transfer for the fund for the funding so I still my motion would be still to reduce that by 39,5 3976 and in terms of the stien um so I pointed out to the city administrator that they jip this employee in their regular salary C just to be clarified when you say in terms of

stip you talk about the $113,000 stien for the clerk correct just make that's where I am now so her her salary actually was $4,140 181 cents under what it should be for this year so In fairness I don't want if we're taken away on this end she still deserves she he I don't even know who it is still deserves to get their full pay on the on the on the other end um

so what's your motion councelor my motion is I still believe that the stien there should be no stien her salary should be brought to where it should be there should be no stien there is no other person no other Clerk and there are many clerks who do above and beyond that don't get stiens least of all a $133,000 stien so my motion is my motion is to reduce the stien completely

$113,000 we got to be spefic so the,50 just can't say typ in addition to the 39 in addition to the 39 so that would be what a total of 52,589 76 me or me yeah I know my math that's good couny you yield the floor Council to I do I yield good thank you counc SE one thank you uh so can we have a Frank conversation um so we have one person that's

currently in the security guard position so if we eliminate that I guess hypothetically because it's a hypothetical hypothetically the individual would not be paid and correct therefore would leave or quit right unless they want to work for free I understand my colleagues statement in terms of we're putting a position that's not in ordinance and then the augment is what comes first but

obviously the individual is is already in that position through oura money my question to you though is is that there are one two three four five uh five vacancies so two electricians one plumber two Carpenters that are funded right so you're going to be looking to hire that position those positions right so well we're going to be looking to bargain uh with the Union to see if we

can maybe change that allotment um the council but that's fine I guess so I guess let me let me rephrase my my question so there is money that has been allocated for those positions now how that breaks out after negotiations may change yes sir okay so that being said so if we eliminate the what you say 59 59,000 and then the 13,000 39 13 52 total I'm sorry 39 39 39 13 yeah 39

53976 and then the 1350 depending on depending on when you hire you still have enough funds to one pay the stien because as a legis legislative body we do not have the authority to tell you not to pay a snip in and two still pay the security guard technically or hypothetically technically but I think um and and that's fine right timing because those a vac I mean if all the positions were

filled then we would be having a different conversation but I just want to have a Frank conversation that I I know the motion that's before us it may not necessarily pan out the way that my colleague in C2 sees or thinks that it's going to pan out sure um but but you know that our our intent is never to try to circumvent the will of the council truly I know people are going to laugh

at that and say you know well it's not um but very truly uh I want to be able to go to the uh with those five positions and say hey what can we do with these to put them at a rate because this would also affect some positions that our filled put them at a rate where we can actually hire and retain people uh good people electricians with licenses um you know

all all of the things that come with that um and I would not want to chip away at those positions um you know not to say we we couldn't use that money but I wouldn't want to chip away at the money set aside for those positions uh by doing that when we we do desperately uh need to be able to bring some of the stuff in house to be able to be

sustainable uh so that's just that's a future thing it's speculative but it is something that we're going to be doing forth with we've already actually started that conversation but it does have to be bargained okay you're a better man than I I would say reduce I'm still paying people that's what I would that's what I would do you have to right so I I just want to make it clear that again we don't have

line Authority it's just an overall salary inexpensive SC the point you're trying to make is although that's the intent that the counselor wants that's not necessarily what will happen right in fruition exactly because I would I would assume that you would then come back to or down or submit something for ordinance to to get a security guard in into ordinance I would assume or maybe

not oh yeah no I think it's critically important okay um it's not a you know a rough and tumble bouncer it's somebody that makes sure that nobody's overdosing in the bathrooms it's so important on that first floor uh it's a big deal all right so the answer to question is yes from yes thank the the second part and I think this is the biggest the bigger part that I have concern with is just the stien

um my colleague had a conversation with me in terms about the on call stien and again I wasn't here for that conversation that took place uh in in public but you and I then had a conversation about this position explaining the situation so the job description before us would suggest that the conversation that you and I have had about you know 140 9 things of that nature uh procurement is outlined and

captured in the job description I don't age do you have because I I need I guess I guess I need some back up right if I'm not in order for me not to support my colag because she she makes some point in I mean some very specific arguments in terms of the job description which are right in front of us that I would I would agree with her that her argument to suggest that

that individual is just so SL performing their function as outlined in the job description is accurate from my standpoint so I guess I would want to hear the administration's standpoint I guess what he said earlier C if I may is that there are other people doing similar responsibility jobs at a higher pay and that's what I think you said earlier Seth it this brings are in line with the pay of what other

people doing in in a very general sense there's only you know there's there's really no maybe one or two other clerks who are working beyond their job description so let me let me ask this question has this job description been approved by the the union this is the job description she's been working under for a while yes so but is it approved do we know if it was appr it was approved by the it

was all right that didn't help me no and it doesn't help me and I and I recognize that but again I'm GNA tell you the truth um I I get at the end of the day you know all of these you know you can find this job description for a number of other clerks at that 1186 uh position none of them are doing chapter 149 none of them are helping to originate bids um

you know none of them are doing the same level of of of work when it comes to the the construction procurement piece I will say that there are some they are not clerks and most of them are not in the union which makes this more difficult uh who are making in that 56 to $60,000 range who are not clerks but they're not management and they are working at a higher level of Independence similar to this particular

person all right so I I guess this is where where I stand just so so that we can move on I absolutely agree with my colleague in C2 however um I am not GNA if we're combining this these two motions I'm not going to support it um my argument or my I guess my request to you would be to try to clean this up through negotiations or unions and and

have that equity and the only reason I won't support my my colleague in C2 on this is is just because the individual has been receiving this and I know it's a stien I know it's only it's a year-to-year situation but unfortunately folks rely on this type of um money coming time she's getting this Sten has she not received it she's been getting service out of rank for for more than

two years yeah Jesus so she has been receiving that service out of rank she's beening some level of service out of rank yes because the the salary is incorrect it's not going to look like it's the same amount of service out of rank but she's been so the service out of rank let me let me ask the question because I want to understand this so if if we reduce the $113,000 does she lose money

yes okay ter all right I Y thank you councelor counc see2 I know we said we not get back and forth but go ahead please ask a for so in the 2024 budget there was no stien that's true there was no stien this was mislabeled as a stien it's not a stien never was okay it was service out of rank so in this thing it's called a stien we're discussing a

stien what I'm understanding is we want her to get more money for the work she's doing because she's doing work that's at another level that gets paid more money than she does I would agree okay yes but yet this says you cannot give a stien for job performance so the stien is invalid according to attorney Ramsey's opinion because you're increasing her salary based on the work you believe

she's doing so point of information could I so there's there's a legal definition or a contractual definition I guess it would be both right a legal and a contractual definition that's outlined in the collective bargain agreements that service out of rank is it's it's there there's a definition associated with it so it's not a stien so I would agree with you if you're if if it was mislabled as a stien which is

what I'm hearing from the administration that she's truly getting paid service out of rank which is captured in the collective bargaining agreement then I think we're talking about two totally different items is that it was mislabeled it's a mistake it's service out of rank not a stien it's service out of rank not based on a job description okay let's time to move on I agree thank

you C all right I will amend my motion to reduce the two part-time positions by so he can continue to get paid but I still would like to see you go to ordinance and actually create the position that would be appreciated so the second one let's see where are we facilities um to reduce it by $1,760 instead so you're going to eliminate your first motion and now reduce it by 19,000 instead of the 38

the 36 what is it instead of the 39,000 seeing that they that person's being paid and nobody wants to see them not get paid I will reduce the position that nobody has filled yet for 19,7 160 until the proper channels are followed and still reduce the stiens so now we're looking at at 19 23 33 33 if you any the councils have numbers they want to do please do them at PRI so

the clerks won't go the batteries W thin on the calculators yeah so it's $19,750 whatever those two total is there a second to the motion debb no second motion doesn't carry is there another motion is there a motion to adopt as amended but her her motion's still on the table she was just amending it right there's no second there's no okay so the original motion is just an not table you're correct correct the original

motion for $52,500 is still on the table no one second that motion you just made roll call on this motion the 52,000 there's no motion nobody gave it a second there was no second on that there wasn't a second on on her Amendment on either one oh I thought there was a second on no was coun seat 7 you didn't second that motion I haven't said anything in the past 25

minutes okay I thought there was it's a record yeah you think you did I mean if there was no second on a motion why are we having discussion on it I think he did I could have SW there was no second okay that won't happen again trust me everyone makes a mistakes you didn't second that nope it's televised we'll find out someone I thought did but that's okay I stand correct so I'm sorry

they're gonna look at the tape tomorrow okay so what do we have before us councils motion to approve already total amount the total amount M reducing it by $10,000 would make the salary account 1,174 749 motion to approve that line correct there motion has been made is there a second where was that that's F D1 D1 second D1 facility salaries second second on the motion roll call C kadim yes Dion yes har no k

Yesa no P yeso yes Samson yes president C yes the motion carries motion carries mam clir D3 e e there's no D3 okay what is this what was that salary out of who salary we're on to E for the the purpose of community maintenance motion to approve second motion to approve has made and seconded on the motion councel in SE two okay um page 168 streets and highways same thing electricity budgeted at 225,000 in the

FY 24th third quarter budget they only use 28.2% of that budgeted amount so I would suggest make the motion that we reduce that by 75,000 uh for the budget to be 150,000 I I don't see they're ever going to use 75% of excuse me 62.8% of in one quarter so my motion is to reduce the bud the electric by $775,000 motion has made is there a second second motion has made and seconded roll

call can we just make sure with the number is as a point of information um the general fund for facilities expense will be reduced to $75,000 that will equate to a number of 2 million five put oh I'm sorry disregard I'm just trying to help don't yell at me how he does is close 2 which is for Community maintenance expense reducing by 75,000 bringing the total to 13 million

motion to approve second motion to approve meeting second roll call roll call are we approving the entire 1 through three which would be the total amount of 8,847 5113 correct um approval council is kadim yes Dion no Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira yes Ponty no Roso yes Samson yes president yes um line item f for the purpose of community service would be 1 through four total amount being 3 million

$931,000 motion to approve second motion to approve has been seconded roll call on approval council is kadim yes DM yes Hart yes Kilby yes Perera yes Pony yes reposo yes Samson yes president C yes line g 1 through three total amount being 191 Milli 9483 motion to approve second motion to approve mil seconded roll call on approval council is kadim yes Dion yes yes Kilby yes Pereira yes Pony

yes Roso yes Samson yes president C yes H for the purpose of community protection lines 1 through eight total amount is 46 m878 39 motion to approve second motion to approve has made and second on the motion Cony to same thing page 228 electricity budgeted at 220,000 expended in the third quarter only 42.6% so the motion would be to reduce that item by $50,000 expenses bring it to $46 mil 37,8 39

correct you reducing the expense line eh2 correct correct I'm talk about the total could you repeat that alep 50,000 is being reduced in the expense line counselor okay so the expense line item would then be 2,168 545 correct do you councelor seat I do councelor seat one thank you Mr President is is this a similar situation I I would think this is a little bit different right this has nothing to do with the power

purchase agreements or anything I don't believe so and I just I mean they may not have their the bills may not have been in again it's a timing thing of when the purchases the requisitions get in the invoices they go through the approval process I guess can um just in so we don't know how accurate the those are from we didn't get the actual in the budget that's one of the points I made out over

yeah nobody asked there wasn't a question asked to provide that I mean so tonight so I guess that's what I'm before to to my colleague and see to I I just don't without knowing where we are with the actuals we could be three months behind on the billing from National Grid right yeah so that would that would have an impact absolutely just is a point of information hold on you yeld Cy too just

as a point of information in the fy2 24 budget that electric budget was reduced already based on historical data um that their budg their electric budget was not expended and it was reduced in the FY 24 budget but what amount um I believe it was I should have written it down um I may have it was either 250 reduced to 220 or 240 reduced to 220 so reduced by $10,000 excuse me so it was reduced by

$10,000 no either uh 20 or 30,000 but that was an FY 24 and that was based on uh historical um so again this year they're still we're in the budget but whatever it's it's whatever the the council uh that's my motion I yield okay that's that's my point maybe we should just keep doing that make the motion and let the councils decide Council see one you counc two uh through you Mr President to

my colleague and C2 how did how did she make the determination what actuals did you look at I guess that would just help me we didn't have the actuals of this budget so she's probably going back to 2024 but I using the budget book based on deduction and then in the fy2 24 budget where it was specified that it was due to uh historical um for historical reasons all right thank you AEL thank you

counc are you all set M CL you the total that was reduced yes we reduced it by $50,000 okay so the total was uh 46 milon 37,8 39 in total roll call was there a second there was Y no there's no second okay there be no second I'll say another motion motion to approve as presented second motion to approve as made seconded roll call we got a second that time this would be H1 through

8 as it was presented approval council's kadim yes Dion no Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira yes Ponty yep raposo yes Samson yes president C yes can I just ask Mr President three if we can just get the updates on where where those numbers truly are if we are behind on the electric bills thank you while while we're on that subject I would appreciate it next year to put the actual in the budget

please um if I don't know who's going to be here but if they don't come down with actuals I just might send it right back or the council might just take a vote I'll make a motion to send it right back with the actuals in it to make the process a lot easier for next year mam click um under I 1 through 4 we have for the purpose of other governmental expenses the total amount being 96

m985 38 motion approve Mo motion to take items I one through four separately motion made to take items I 1 through four is there a second sep separately second we have a second on the motion roll call what the motion to to take items one through four separately in I okay apologize don't have counil yes Dion yes har yes Kilby yes Pereira yes Pony yes reposo yes Samson yes president yes

M clerk I won from the general fund for Debt Service 4,755 18881 motion to approve second motion to approve has been made in seconded roll call on approval council is kadim yes Dion yes Hart yes Kilby yes Perera yes Pony yes raposo yes Samson yes president Kar yes I2 from the general fund for insurance in the amount of 4,826 excuse me Council can we please let the clerk here so we can hear it without

there be discussion thank you motion to reduce the insurance to up by 1,568 488 and a comment if I may soon as there's a second second 1 168 1,568 488 1, 15,6 and 488 correct yep motion has been made and seconded on the motion count SE six counc Pon thank you um by the way I do feel for any residents watching at home tonight because they are probably spinning like crazy so I apologize in

advance but um I will say that um the reason this number came about was because my real emphasis here is to not use one-time money and at my understanding so far the city council has already cut the budget by $85,000 $10,000 under General funds and $75,000 under Financial Services as of right now we've already cut correct the financial services failed it was 75,000 for the um was it for the assessor I'm

sorry for the um purchasing agent that that failed okay I apologize so the council's only reduced budget by $10,000 as of right now no 60,000 no C we've made more reductions than that what what is the total amount reduced to date 70,000 in total and it was from facilities maintenance yeah all right so it's only been 70 okay and the reason for that is because I'm really trying to find a way to get

the budget down as much as we can to not use onetime money so that M 1,568 488 will help us get down to not use onetime money since we've already reduced it by 70 and then I plan to do another motion under the reserve account to break that a total even of $2.3 million of onetime money not being used in this Municipal budget so that is my motion and that's the reason that number came

about I yield motion has been made and seconded rollong on the reduction Council kadim yes Dion yes Hart no Kilby no Herrera no hty yes Roso yes Samson no president Kamar no motion fails

somebody can make a motion to approve motion approved seconded motion to approve as made seconded roll call an approval of the line item in the total amount of 4,826 n25 council is kadim yes Dion yes Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira yes Ponte no Roso no Samson yes president C yes I3 from the general fund for pension contributions in the amount of 4,555 720 motion to approve second motion to approve as the

Mee and seconded roll call on approval council is kadim yes Dion yes Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira abstained Ponte yes Roso yes Samson yes president Kamar yes and I4 from the general fund for Reserve Fund in the amount of

$846,000 to make that an even $200,000 in the reserve account second motion has made seconded roll call discuss on the reduction council is kadim yes Dion yes Hart no Kilby no Pereira no Ponty yes Roso yes Samson yes president Kamar

yes M CL Mr President question the last one once it's all said and done do we get an copy of the final I'm sure you will councelor thank you be in your mailbox tomorrow morning look forward to okay that's the last that's the last um item what information count C6 um so we will be then uh with the reductions that the Council made tonight we will then um have a new operating budget and a new

amount in the appropriation on the top that we would adopt as a body correct Madam clerk correct before the end of the night she's doing that right I know she's probably doing that now so thank you

I'll ask the the CFO to correct me if I'm wrong but the total operating budget would be the amount of 42,8 59,500 12 what 85953 412 85953 can we have a two-minute recess Mr President for so we can make sure that the numbers add up City counc reset for two minutes

city council meeting will reconvene Madame Kirk we read out the total as amended so this would be voting on the budget as amended and the total amount of 412 m218 21 motion to approve as amended second motion to approve as amended has been made and seconded roll call on adoption as amended council is kadim yes Dion no har yes Kilby yes Perera yes Pony yes reposo yes Samson yes president yes great job every

want to

mam clerk can pick up where we left off yes so the the next item we have before you is the mayor's request for confirmation of the reappointment of David Underhill to the Housing Authority conf confirm motion to confirm has been made and seconded all in favor I any oppos I got a question sorry on a motion Cy to that's okay counc um I just want to ask if we can well I'm

going to make a motion table this I just got some information saying that the tenants did not vote on this is this a tenant representative yes yes so can we just get I'm going to make a motion to table can we get some clarification from the administration that an actual vote was taking place second motion to the table has a remain and seconded all in favor I any opposed item is table get that P someone pleas

anything think it was that powerful Cliff me Madam clerk item three is a communication from the mayor in an order authorizing a cost of living adjustment um before I read this out there is an an error on the agenda it should say 3% on a $122,000 base amount for City retirees for FY to 12,000 seconded the order is correct the order is correct sorry motion to agend motion to adopt has been made and seconded all

in favor I I any opposed abstained counc seat five abstained item four is a communication from the mayor and a request to reduce uh Bristol County arpa funds for the veterans assistance program from the allocated $250,000 to $20,000 due to obligation requirements by the US Department of the treasury motion to approve second motion to approve as being seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item five is

communication from the mayor and proposed ordinance regarding buildings and building properties and property man motion refer to Comm on ordinances second motion refer to committee on ordinance and legislation has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries the committee on real estate at a meeting held on May 28th voted unanimously to recommend that the accomp in communication be referred to the

administration with an expected response within 30 days this communication was from a city resident requesting to purchase a parcel of city- owned land motion so move motion has been made second and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries committee on real estate at a meeting held on May 28th vot unanimously voted to recommend that the accompanying order be adopted this is in order

authorizing um an RFP for the sale of Hick Street locked motion to adopt motion to adopt has been made is there a second and seconded all in favor I I any opposed motion carries item eight is a proposed ordinance um for second reading and enrollment that relates to the engineering Department's permit fees motion so made second motion to pass to a second reading and enrollment has been made and seconded

all in favor I any opposed motion carries item nine is an ordinance for second reading and enrollment that relates to the minimum housing and Municipal organizational structure pass through second reading and enrollment second motion to pass the second reading and enrollment has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed oppose councel seats have o opposed whereas after the reorganization

of certain departments took place to increase efficiencies across the city and whereas the director of City operations is prepared to make a presentation to the the city council now therefore be it resolved that the committee on finance convene with the director of City operations to allow this presentation to commit motion to adopt second motion to adopt has a made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion

carries where as many children in the city of full River do not have access to transportation to the greater Fall River Art Association and whereas the greater Fall River Art Association could purchase an art mobile vehicle and working this will bring art activities to children that cannot get transportation to the full River Art Association and whereas this would allow art to be brought to Parks schools

housing complexes and other City events now therefore be it resolved that the committee on finance put forth a Bristol County arpa application to help the greater full River Art Association purchase an art mobile vehicle motion to adopt motion to adopt made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 13 is the order granting permission to Denise Diago for the removal of curbing at 401 High to adopt

motion to adopt has made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 14 is in order granting permission to 164 Elm Street LLC for the removal of curbing at 164 Elm Street motion to adopt seconded motion to adopt has been made in seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries item 15 is in order granting permission to the D Stefano family living trust for removal of curbing at

311 M Street and Purchase Street motion to adopt to adopt motion to adopt as a made in second all in favor I any opposed motion carries we have the order granting permission to sarap and Souza for removal of curbing at 177 Doyle Street and North BR Street motion to adopt motion to adopt has a made in seconded all in favor any opposed motion carries item 17 is an order granting permission

to Sharon Vieira operating as J&J Diamond Jewelers for permission to operate and maintain a secondhand article store motion to adopt second motion to adop I seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries have the police chief's report motion to adopt second second motion to adopt has been made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries um if I if I may item number 14 I voted in favor of and I

need to abstain can we go back and revisit motion to reconsider second motion Rec consider item 14 has been made and seconded all in favor is there a motion to adopt ad 14 seconded as being seced roll call oh roll call Mr President you might want to have Council uh vice president just take the roll call you can understand handle this one

council president Camara no we could just take a roll call vote I'm roll call roll call motion to adopt so this would be the order of granting permission to 164 Elm Street LLC for the removal of curbing at 164 we already did that second roll call council's kadim yes Dion yes Hart yes Kilby yes Pereira yes hty yes Roso yes Samson yes president CRA obain get out of thank you thanks

mam clir item 19 is an application for the renewal of an auto repair shop license at 673 bford Street motion to adopt second motion to adopt has a remain seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries we have a number of CLA motion to ref to Corporation Council motion to F to Corporation Council has been made and seconded all in favor any opposed motion carries um item 22 is the final report on the acceptance of

Gate House drive from Prospect Street southerly to Maple Street motion to approve motion to approve motion to approve there's a second second on second motion to approve uh Council seat six Council Pony uh thank you um Madam clerk did the city engineer uh make a an opinion on this did is he in favor of accepting the street we have the um the report uh he he replied on behalf of the

planning board um the planning board did did recommend acceptance um but he did add a comment um that the committee had asked that to provide the council with a preliminary estimate in the amount of $887,000 for the restoration of the remaining asphalt surface to to an acceptable standard at whose expense the city's expense yes thank you I'll roll call this I yeld thank you councelor motion to approve

has made in seconded roll call on that final report council is kadim no Dion no Hart yes Kilby yes Herrera no Pony no raposo no Samson nope president C

no item 23 are minutes of the committee on finance held on May 28th motion to approve second motion to approve the committee on finance has been made in all in favor I any opposed motion carries 24 are minutes of the regular meeting of the city council held on May 28 motion to approve motion to approve is made and seconded all in favor I any opposed motion carries we just need a brief

recess to council will take a brief recess to get the audience assigned

City C Comm Rec Madam clerk we have the two ordinances for Passage through final ordination the first are the planning uh excuse me engineering department permit fee motion so made second motion to pass to be ordained has been made and seconded do we need a roll call on that we don't all in favor I any opposed motion carries and the last for a final passage is the minimum housing in Municipal

organizational so Mo motion to pass be ordained second have made in second all in favor I any opposed oppos seat seven opposed that's all we have motion to adjourn second motion to adjourn has been made and seconded all in favor I is there anyone opposed motion carries good night everybody Hey listen listen just want to say one thing throughout last week and this week I think you guys asked some

excellent questions you very very good meetings you ought to be commended and a lot of the department heads that came down as well it was a very good in budget hearings you guys ask a lot of good questions proud of yourself counc president great job yourself I cond yourself very well good night everyone City c meeting is now adjourned hey hey hey

heyyyy hey heyyy