6.30.2026 Fall River City Council - Special Meeting

This forest uh this forest city council special meeting is now called to order at 531.

Madame clerk roll call please.

Scadine here.

Chamra here.

Canuel here.

Dion here.

Hart here.

Peekom here.

Carrera here.

Raposo here. President Pont here. If everybody in the chamber can please rise for a moment of silent prayer.

Thank you. And a salute to the flag. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Pursuant to the open meeting, Laura, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

This special meeting has been called by the mayor. I want to take this moment to uh thank uh councelor Kadeim and councelor Raposo for going out of your way to attend this meeting tonight after it was originally cancelled. So thank you both for uh making the necessary changes to be here so that all of us are here this evening. First person and first item on our agenda is citizens

input. First person I have to speak is Colin Das 560 Ray Street School transportation and CFO three minutes.

Thank you. Um Colin D 56 RA Street. I'm just speaking in an individual capacity.

Um, since the last time I came before the council and um, since then and within several correspondents aka emails, I've asked for backup related to school transportation and the budget and the number that is before you. I know other counselors have asked for the same backup. I know other members of the school committee have asked for that same backup. I haven't received anything. Not sure if any member of the

city council has.

Unfortunately, that's just the common place with this administration to keep things from us and not get to the bottom truth. But I just want to speak to I guess the process here is a little bit different in that the entire committee votes on amounts and sends that to the mayor.

We voted on and the CFO of our schools indicated that we project to spend $17 million in transportation.

The city CFO can just I guess cut it by $1 million because I guess she just thinks she can without speaking to anyone on the school department.

I know the law reads that all transportation must be funded by the city and it has nothing to do with net school spending in Fall River. The mayor and the city council for years upon years have pounded their chests and said that we can find one that we can find 100% of net school spending and fund all of transportation.

The number that is before you is not the number that the school committee approved.

Even though it's the law I'm here like I just heard just on the radio and the council president said it. We have the number the school committee approved. We have the number that was placed in the budget and this magical third number which I have no idea what that is about.

But again, I just hope the city council asked the very tough questions tonight.

I usually watch these meetings from my couch and I'm just and I watch and discuss how the administration comes down here just disrespects the city council either through not giving information or just being verbally rude meeting after meeting after meeting and it's disrespectful. And I'm confident that this city council will do the right thing tonight and demand more from that administration. Thank you. Thank you,

Mr. Das. Next person I signed up to speak, Mayor Paul Coogan, 90 Williamson Street, regarding the budget. Three minutes.

Well, I figured I had to come down tonight since I called the meeting. So, uh, and I do appreciate the people that made the effort to get here that weren't originally scheduled. It's uh it's a very important issue and we want to make sure it has all the credence it should have and that's what I have to start with. Good evening council president and members of the honorable council. I am

here to speak to the council regarding the 27 budget and the administration's willingness to work cooperatively with the council throughout the entire process. The budget was submitted to the council in midmay. There have been budget meetings with some individual counselors before the start of the budget hearings. The administration has been receptive and responsive to the council's request for suggested

amendments to the budget. The approval of the city's municipal budget is the single most important vote that the council will make and that's why I I'm glad everybody showed up tonight. My administration has compromised and has worked in good faith through the entire budget process. We have been transparent and inclusive in our conversations on and off the floor with counselors. We

worked the council's suggestion to cut the million dollars from the budget. We put in the retiring police officers buyouts as suggested by the council and have a meeting set up tomorrow with the new school CFO to review transportation costs. We listen to all your concerns and suggestions. Tonight, I want to let you know and the public that we have often talked about the $40,000 and an

attorney for the city council that will remain in the law department. Legal decisions will remain in the corporation council's office on the eve of the last day of the fiscal year 26 with no municipal budget in place. I am simply asking the members of the council, in the words of Bill Bich, to do your job.

If you do not agree with the budget for financial reasons, then vote accordingly. But to continue to object or further stall a $500 million budget over a $40,000 line item is both unfair and unnecessary. Please do not let petty politics disrupt these deliberations any further and the people of Fall River deserve better. Thank you and have a good meeting.

Thank you. Councilman C4, Council Vice President, Mr. Mayor, if I may.

Sure.

I'm trying to be calm because I am today.

We all should be.

I am not calm. So, I am trying really hard. So, number So, I was in the meeting on Thursday afternoon. you, president, myself, city administrator, the CFO, and the director of human resources.

We thought we reached a compromise. We talked about an MOA. It's I understand that the administration keeps saying it's the 40,000, it's the 40,000, it's the 40,000. We have brought up other issues. We had a problem with the EMS stabilization account. We reduced that number which made the uh budget unbalanced. It had to be balanced.

Um we're still discussing transportation and I find it very interesting. So there's a meeting tomorrow with the CFO I don't know if you're there or not, but the CFO the C the school side to discuss transportation. So that tells me transportation's not settled. So why would we vote today on a budget with a transportation number that nobody's come to a consensus on? If you had a consensus, you wouldn't be meeting

tomorrow. So do you want me to answer them or just wait?

If you wish to, go ahead.

Okay. So the meeting tomorrow is also an introductory meeting with the new CFO and I believe school transportation will come up. We're very comfortable with our number. We checked the numbers again today. I believe we've put enough money in the budget to transport all the students in the city of Fall River. And if that, god forbid, ends up short, we will be back to talk to you. But at this

point, we're convinced the number we put in the budget will be sufficient. If tomorrow's meeting changes something, I can guarantee you the next call will be to you guys.

At one of our meetings, and I don't remember which one it was, but I'm sure you'll remember. Not necessarily the meeting, but the conversation. I don't remember if it was on on Thursday or if it was prior to that when I was there with councelor Canuel. I don't remember.

Point of clarification if I may please.

Councilman C2, your point of clarification.

When my colleague in C4 says what of our meetings, what meetings are we talking about? We talk about council meetings.

We talk about committee meetings. We're talking about a meeting that's just been someone arranges to have with the just kind of meeting we're talking about.

I will clarify. I will answer that. You have every reason to ask that question.

So, some of us attended budget meetings.

So, I don't know if this happened in one of the budget meetings or if it happened in the meeting that we had with them on Thursday afternoon.

The meeting you had on Thursday afternoon wasn't a budget meeting or was it just a No, it wasn't a budget meeting. Well, I saw suppose it sort of was.

Just curious who called the meeting.

The mayor.

Yeah. I we invited all the councils in.

Okay. So, so it was a meeting between to discuss the budget.

Councelor Dion and and council pot came together. I'm trying to think that I think a few others had come together in the past, but So, it's a meeting that was for the budget.

Everybody. Yep. To talk about the budget.

If I may interject for a moment, we we are in citizens input right now. Um, so I understand that. But it's my only opportunity to ask him these questions.

You come up whatever you want, Michelle.

You know that.

No, no. I just I just wanted to urge the council. Are we going to wave the rules?

We should introduce the item. If the mayor is here to stay for this, I think it would be important. He's here.

Counselors have to ask questions. So, can we introduce the item? Mayor, would you be able to stay here and answer questions that the counselors have because a number of them have questions or we're going to wave the rules of citizens input?

What's the will?

It's your choice.

I'll do what'sever best for the council.

All right. We'll we'll ask you to stay if you can for the deliberations and I'll ask if it's too bad I'll leave.

Okay. Uh if the city I wish I could say the same, but I'm here for the duration.

If I if I may, I'm going to give you the floor back. I like I will yield if we're going to do that to the table. I have no problem with that.

Thank you. I'm going to acknowledge you first, counselor. Madam clerk, we're by the way, for the record, citizens input. There's no other individuals to sign up to speak. Next item on our agenda, Madam Clerk. Item two is a communication from the mayor in the revised proposed fiscal year 2027 municipal budget general fund appropriation order.

Motion to address the appropriation line by line.

Motion to uh address the appropriation order line by line has been made by council vice president Deand Harris, seconded by council of Pekkham.

Discussion. Members of the administration, please come to the table. I'd like to acknowledge our council vice president seat for first.

Anna, please introduce yourself for the record please.

Ann O'Neal Soua, interim city administrator.

I'm Learpie, CFO.

Mr. Mayor, just for the record.

Oh, uh, Paul Coogan, mayor.

Thank you. Councilman C for council vice president.

So I want to go back to that meeting because um I will say an agreement was was a compromise was reached. I don't want to use the wrong words. A compromise was reached. Council president and myself made it very clear we can't bind this body to a decision that we had to take everything back to the council. I went so far as to say neither one of us can talk to the entire

council. We had to split the council up so that we didn't violate any open meeting laws or anything else. And everybody understood that that when we walked out of that office that was not a we didn't we didn't it was not a sign sealed and delivered. Yep. This is it.

This is what's happening. There were contingencies. That was one of the contingency. We fully wanted the council to see uh any and all MOAs um that the body needed to vote on it and one of the stipulations also was that corporation council had to sign the MOA as an agreeable party and you agreed to that. You said that you were good.

You were fine. You were on board with signing it. I give you all the credit in the world that we were able to come up with a compromise and present it. And I said to you, "Okay, that's great. We left the office before we left." I said, "Okay, so we're going to send it to the council. They need to vote. You're going to sign it. We're going to sign it. And

attorney Ramse's going to sign it." And you said, "Yes, he is." And I said, "And if he doesn't, your words to me were verbatim."

That's right. And if he doesn't, this goes sideways and we go to a 112th budget. Is that correct, sir?

Correct. But can I elaborate a little bit? You certainly may.

So that what you said is actually 100% correct. But during those same conversations, we had also discussed the fact that three people had in the council had looked uh positively on our budget. And I said, if we have you and uh council president will be okay. Do you want us to prepare a 112th budget?

And I believe it was councelor Pon said, "No, that won't be necessary. there will be no more cuts. As long as you can get the MOA to a compromise between both parties, we'll be fine. And I think that that's how it was left.

So it okay, but it was contingent upon this body voting and agreeing and the corporation council signing the MOA and that to date to this minute has not happened. So, the contingency was not met. It's not you and it's not us stopping this for $40,000.

The corporation refusing to sign the MOA is what's stopping for our move forward movement. And I'm going to call it forward movement because that's what we agreed to. We can try to move forward.

We in good faith want to move forward.

But that stopped.

No. Absolutely. Well, the problem was, if you remember, um I think the original MOA said form and substance and and I believe that there was a different signature that you wanted from um corporation council, not form and substance. That's where it hung up. The form and substance he said he would sign and of course we've been going back and forth for a few days on this, but not the um

and that was a conversation. Actually we had a uh conference call you the president myself and Mr. Molini on Friday morning which was the day after we met with all of you and in that conversation I brought it up again contingent upon but in that conversation is when the subject of form and content came up and it was Mr. Malini who said he was willing to sign in form and

content. And at that point I said, "Wait a minute, hold the phone.

Form and content isn't good enough."

And Nick said, "Well, that's Mr. Molini said that's how he signs all legal documents." I said, "I understand that."

And I understand attorneys do. I have no problem with him signing to form and content. However, however, he also needs to sign as an agreeable party because if he doesn't sign as an agreeable party, then we don't even know if there if if if there's wiggle room and if one more time we can have legal maneuvering that doesn't allow this MOA to move forward.

And you agreed that he would sign also as an agreeable party.

I I tried I said I tried to get him to sign as an agreeable party. I said he's already agreed to form substance. I could not speak for him at that time. He wasn't around. He was uh on vacation in Pennsylvania. So when he came back, we did have that conversation. And again, that's where I thought we were moving towards. Uh it's and I know you did and I'm telling you

and I and and believe me, I will give you credit for your efforts. I truly do.

And I want people to know you you did make an effort, but so did we.

Oh, no. We're not done moving yet. We're I don't know about that. Well, if it's not if it's it's not on our side, and I'm not saying that as a threat. I'm saying that as you know me, I'm straightforward.

As I said, if the worst thing we have to do is go to 112, then that's what we do because that's the council's wishes. I think we can pass this budget and continue to work on that agreement. But if that's not the will of the council, I don't get a vote. I respect all nine of you. You make whatever vote you're comfortable with, and tomorrow we're back at work.

Okay. But I think I think the issue is more not about moving forward. It's more there were contingencies and they weren't met. So, it's not the council refusing. It's the contingencies weren't met. Um, and and you also did say we're going to send you a draft MOA, which you did.

You did.

And you look at it, you look it over, you tweak it, you change anything you want, and you send it back to us.

Correct.

And we did.

Yeah. Well, what happened was I guess um we sent we had sent one to councelor Pont early in the morning. Uh and I know how the email system is. Uh he he didn't get a chance till we had a conversation later in the day and I said, "Nick, sent that to you." He said to me, "I'm waiting for this." And I said, "Nick, sent it to you already." And then he

then when I called him back, he said, "Oh, I found it." Yep.

So again, so yes, we're not done. We're not done compromising. But if we are, this side is willing to continue. But if we are, it takes two parties to compromise and we could still work our way through it.

But if that's not to be, that's not to be. We have a budget to pass that I think is extremely important for all the residents of the city, for all of our uh employees, and I would like to see that get done. There is some question about the school department budget, whether it when it was not zeroed out the first time and it was zeroed out the second time. Which one takes precedence? We've

been on conversations with the do. We have work to do on this budget. This this $40,000 agreement is not off the table from our side. Whatever we do, we'll work it out.

And we did agree. Yes, you can keep it in the law department budget and we compromise. And that your compromise was keep it in that budget. our compromise was let's have an MOA so that outlines exactly how it moves forward what is able to be done what isn't so that it would be in writing so that everybody would know exactly the details of how we would be able to use legal but

unfortunately again I go back to our cooperation council is not willing to do that so that was the back and forth that went on all day Friday all day yesterday and as I said from my perspective effective. I don't think it's it's over till it's over. And I but and I I you didn't hear me come in here and say, "Well, that's gone. We will continue to work." And I and I you know,

and I think and I think whatever happens, you did offer you offered to compromise at the table. You said, "I have one." And as you knew, and I'm not going to try to hide anything, we were already working on similar type language. That's correct. So, it's not a far jump. If we can still come to a compromise, we'll keep it going forward.

But I think the focus tonight, with all due respect, should be on the budget.

And I agree with you. Okay.

So, at this point, I would also like to emphasize because the world is convinced it's the city council being stubborn.

It's only the $40,000 and it is not. And I know there are councilors here tonight who want to speak. They want to address their issues. Um, I have something myself that I want to address with transportation. Um, so yes, we're not done with budget talks. I just wanted to clarify and it's much better for you and I to sit face to face so everybody can hear our dialogue so it's not he said

she said misconstrued. I I just wanted everything to be everything to be clear for you. You've been up front and I try to be the same way. But again I when we left the meeting I didn't say we're all set, we're good to go. You didn't say we're all set. We're good to go. You said there's work to do on this agreement and that's how I left it.

All right. I agree. I agree. Again, we agree. Um so before we um go line by line in the budget, I would like councils to be able to uh uh talk about their concerns with the budget if we can do it that way.

Sure. There's a number of councils who have to speak.

And with that, I will yield for now.

Thank you. Councelor in seat one, councelor Kadine.

Thank you. Um so one, thank you for being here. Uh, two, I just want to say the characterization as petty politics over $40,000 is extremely disingenuous and ignores the broader issues that have um been raised by the council. And I I for one, I won't speak for any other counselor. I've got no confidence in corporation council and I' I'd be willing to take a vote of no confidence for the entire uh the entire office to

have uh an opinion drafted without again us even requesting an opinion two hours before a meeting.

I I requested it.

Okay. Right. So that was you didn't do that out of the blue. I understand that and that was off of our conversation yesterday with you when you said when you called me up and said well you know I'm going to object right away and I had already heard rumblings right or wrong that there was be that that that an objection wasn't allowed I asked for the opinion they didn't do that on their own

I'll take the full responsibility and I and I appreciate that but our conversation was on Friday that's I mean he wasn't back till Monday not Tuesday so the first thing I would say is I want clarification because in here it says this isn't the first time that's before us. We rejected the budget.

Correct.

Flat out rejected the budget.

So, is this issue that's before us the first time it's before the city council?

Yes.

Okay. I'm going to ask the CFO in terms of budgets. Can you have a budget without an appropriation?

What do you mean?

Can you have an a budget without an appropriation?

It's a budget book. It's not a budget.

So, no. Without an appropriation, you need an appropriation. Okay.

Do you think corporation council should know that you need an appropriation in order to have a budget?

Is that I mean is that is that like finance 101? Is that municipal law 101?

I just hope he's not focused on that. I hope he's focused on the legal issues facing the city. I don't no I mean if corporation council has given us an opinion on something one would assume right that the biggest part of any municipal operation is a budget that in order to have a budget you need to have an appropriation right so I would assume that every attorney who practices municipal law would understand

that so the question that's before us as to whether or not what school department vote we're going to take the first budget we rejected there was no appropriation Yet in the second paragraph, it says, "The city council thereafter considered the proposed budget at multiple meetings during its initial consideration, the council approved the school department budget but rejected the remaining portions."

That's that's correct. But we rejected the appropriation. There is no appropriation. Therefore, there is no budget.

Point of order.

You have point of order. Council, what appropriation was approved?

We did. We did not. We did not approve the school department budget the first time.

No, we did not on June 3rd. You did?

No, we did not. Listen, hear me out. We approved a line item. The line item was the school department budget. The appropriation was never changed or reduced to fund the school department.

So, we skipped a step not even realizing we skipped it. And because we skipped that step and it was never funded, we never approved the school department budget.

That's correct. Thank you for your That's where I was That's where I was going with That's exactly where No, it's okay.

That's that's you you clarified it, but that that's that's exactly where I was going. So, there was no appropriation that was ever submitted. So, there was no budget. So, the entire budget was rejected. So, again, when we're having a legal opinion coming before us saying that there was a budget approved, I I'd like to know how there wasn't a budget that was approved with zero appropriation. There wasn't a single

dollar that was appropriated to any line item of that initial budget. That budget was rejected. It came back before us. We reject it again. The budget is not before us. So for us to even again this this flies in the face of taking away the authority of the city council whether you agree with it or disagree with it. The city the city charter says that a counselor can object to an item

that's before us. And yet again every time we try to compromise with council they come back and give us these types of opinions and then we wonder why we want to hold up a budget for $40,000.

It's not petty politics.

January 27th, 2026, we had a ordinance meeting. There was a discussion between licenses and leases and we were trying to compromise with corporation council and corporate and Matt Thomas who was representing the corporation council told us that we didn't need the ordinance because at the end of the day, the lease should not have been approved without the city council. And we said we want a safety

net. What guarantees do we have? quote the power of the purse. You deny the money that is ultimate the ultimate control of the city council.

We are just taking the recommendation from Matt Thomas coming through corporation council.

We are not happy with the legal opinions. I've as one have no confidence in any of the opinions coming from corporation counsel. We want our own attorney for legal opinions. We've drafted an MOA. Corporation Council refuses to sign. He he'll sign he'll sign to form and legality of a document, but he won't assign agree to the to the actual agreement and the documentation that's before us. He'll never do that.

So, the question is, is it the city council that's holding up the uh the the budget or is is it attorney Ramsey that's holding up the budget?

Do you want me to answer that? Okay. So in our conversations to get to an agreement, he contends that there is Massachusetts law which indicates what a corporation council can and can't do.

His position is that he is not allowed to sign an agreement like that which could expose the city and its taxpayers to legal claims. he can sign that the mayor and the council president agreed to a policy to give them money as we did in the past. I don't think it was formalized then. But at the same time, he said that if he signed something like that, he could literally put himself in

jeopardy. So I said, and I've said it probably too many times that I don't have a problem working with the council to sign it myself. I just guess from what I'm signing and we come to an agreement on the language, it's not sufficient for you guys. But as long as I'm here and hopefully it's another uh whatever it is, year and a half or year, five months, um then I will definitely

work with you on that. I've said it before, I'll say it again. The problem is, you know, trying to negotiate a deal that everybody's on board with. And I, you know, I a, as someone who's a town administrator, um, I know you have a corporation council. Uh, Sean, get an opinion for me if you would. I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with anybody doing that. But I think we have

to work together to get this budget passed and get this agreement behind us.

Right. And so, one, I can't get an opinion from another community. That's that's one. So, I mean, corporation council can get you a conversation with, right? So I mean we we can have those conversations but the draft agreement that we have starts off number one authority of corporation council pursuant to section 2-57 527 and 2-528 the code of the city of fall river in administration act through corporation

council remains the only authority authorized to legally bind the city of fall river. We've acknowledged that we've asked for an appropriation. We've asked for a good faith resolution. We've asked that the city council draft a policy. The selection of the city council was clearly outlined. he has a seat at the table, but the ultimate decision on our council would be coming from the uh the city council. We we

discussed funding payments, everything that's listed in the funding payment, making sure that nothing was held up. We talked about creating an ordinance that would allow this to continue to move forward. We talked about the duration of this. We talked about amendments, how that would be handled. Nothing in here took anything away from from his authority. Yet, we don't have an agreement. This is a pretty

straightforward.

What you're saying, Sean, is is the things that we can work through. Where's the money going to be? Who's going to authorize the payment? How I'm saying, but it was all it was all there and I and I well some of the other things were Nick's agreement and we never married the two up and that's what I think we've been working on because when when we sent out our first one said draft I

think we got the other one from um councel Pont. So we're trying to marry those up now. That's all we're working on.

This draft Mr. Mayor with all due respect is a pretty straight clear straightforward. He's just refusing to sign it. He's not going to sign it. And that's fine. No, who you you you are ultimately the mayor, right? You are you are the individual who ultimately has control of every single department that's before us. If you want this MOA to get signed, the mayor says it gets signed. Right?

So, if corporation council refuses to sign it because of some type of law he says that he's read somewhere that I've asked for the last month and a half and he's yet to provide it to any of the city councilors, then that's fine. But that's ultimately up to you. But you you were elected to serve as the mayor, right? So from my standpoint, if this MOA is legitimate and straightforward and all it is saying in

terms of what we're looking for is just consultation. That's all it is is it's consultation. It's a second legal opinion. It is not binding the city to anything. It is giving us no different than having uh an outside auditor come in or an engineer come in to give us an opinion on something or render services to us. It does not take anything away from corporation. That is that is clear.

Hold on. That that is clearly laid out.

But attorney Ramsey refuses to cooperate. In fact, when we're talking about the leases and the licenses and contracts after the meeting, I went out there in the hallway and I said, "Can we come to a compromise to try to get resolve some of this stuff?" And his response to me was no.

So when we start talking about compromises, when we have these conversations behind closed doors and there is there is a push back for $40,000. So you've got a corporation council who is refusing to agree to something for $40,000. But this is what we're going to talk about.

No.

Okay. So let's not talk about the transportation that's about a million dollars off that we've had we've had discussions with that are now only just being discussed. Right. And then I'm hearing with this whole entire budget process. I I would ask when when did you start having conversations with department heads on this budget individually after they've submitted their budgets? You mean March?

March.

How about mid April?

Okay.

Mid April.

Mid April.

When's the budget due?

Mid 15th.

May 15th. So we have a $484 million budget and the first time we have conversations with department heads is mid April. A month before that it's due.

So now I'm I'm getting I'm getting accused of extorting the city for $40,000. Okay, that's on that's on public radio. I'm getting accused of having secret meetings with Cliff at his restaurant because I can't, God forbid, I go to Almax Diner and have some breakfast, right? Okay. I am being accused that we've we've got deadlines to meet, but yet the administration meets with department heads a month before the

budget is submitted. And then when we try to get responses, we have no responses. I've been trying to get answers to transportation since the first time it's come down. There was no conversation with the school department.

We still don't have any conversation. I don't even know and I've had this conversation with you, Emily, and the and the uh city administrator that's sitting before us as to whether or not maybe it's to the city's benefit that the that the actuals are coming in less and we don't need all this money. But there is zero documentation that is before us that is showing this.

And so you want to we now I've got to sit here and be told that oh we've got to rush this through. This is what we got to do. No, it's not our responsibility to rush anything through.

The expectation is that we're going to have the documentation to prove that everything that we're looking for is actual. We've got and I asked the question $450,000 and I think I think the chief said maybe four to $450,000 of retirement buyouts.

I asked that question the first time when we had the budget before us. The very next meeting that we had, we had a transfer of $450,000 to fund the deficit because of uh employee uh retirements in the police department. And we don't even have $400,000 in this year's budget built in.

And the chief said that's exactly what we need. So we're 400,000 or $450,000 in a deficit right off the right off the rip.

This resubmission does have $400,000.

It's actually 395 for retirement buyouts and police, right? this new appropriation order that's before us for the first time.

It does. Yes, it has it's in the budget 395 in there for retirement buyouts for police, which again I I haven't really reviewed because I haven't had the time to review it. So, I don't know why we I just wanted to let you know it was in Do you understand where I'm coming from though in terms of you know, you're submitting budgets to us. You're telling us we need to vote on stuff and it's

like the things are not done that the time frames are not met but it it we're the ones that are getting blamed for it or that's that's the narrative that's being spun and I just don't appreciate it because it's not the 40,000. It's the 40,000. It's the transportation. It's the questions on the healthcare. It's the 450,000 which you which you have there. It's it's the the items on the

indirect cost that we haven't seen. It's there's a number there's a number.

John, you're not giving yourself enough credit. If you bring something up, whatever one of you brings up that that should be in there. We don't just leave here and and and say, "Oh, good. Let's have another day. I'll see you tomorrow." We go back and go to work on that stuff. And that's why this this this transportation, you and I have had conversations right across the table about that. I I am

convinced we're fine on that because I mean, even talking to um Emily about that, there's over $700,000 in Mckin Vinto surpluses that we haven't touched.

That that's transportation money for us.

So there are and if we're shortening them 900,000, we're right on the edge right there. So I'm not I'm not worried about transportation. I believe we have more than sufficient funds there. I didn't know about the I did not even know the first time we talked that we had that kind of a surplus in Mckin Vento, but now I do. And I think, you know, leaving them a buffer in case they

get hit with a a bad bill is also fair.

But at the same time, if we need it for transportation, we'll use it.

But that's on the school side.

The transportation is ours.

Transportation is ours. But Mckenn Vinto is transportation.

But it held held on the school side.

Does it? I don't think I don't think it has to be.

Does it?

I we'll we'll get to you on that. I don't have a problem, but I believe we can use it.

So, I've got a number of of questions. I just haven't had time. So, I'll I'll yield to my colleagues to have this discussion, but I just want to be very very clear that it's not just the the 40,000, but I I will still stand by that if we don't have $40,000 in the city council budget that I will be in my opin my personal vote, I will not be supporting the budget. This is the only

opportunity, quote Matt Thomas, the power of the purse strings. This is the only time we have the control to be able to get what we need. I have no confidence in corporation council. I asked for $100,000 reduction in salaries. Haven't seen it. We got reductions on on the expense side. Um and I still got a number of questions with transportation and other other line items and and apparently some of them

have been addressed, but I I don't know that for a fact. So that's that's where I stand. So it's not just one issue.

There's a number of issues that that are before us. So with that I yield.

Thank you councelor C6. Councel Pekham.

Good evening. How are you?

Can we find out right now what's up with the Mckin Vento question? Do we have a response to that? Because that makes a big deal.

I I do not have the responses prepared that I think.

Can you go get them for us because I'm I'm not I'm not supposed to be here right now. I was very clear.

Well, then you should have called this meeting.

Well, we discussed right or wrong. Am I right or am I wrong?

You're wrong. I'm wrong. You should have called this meeting even though she's got some way to be and shouldn't be here tonight.

If I could answer, I would go right ahead.

Okay. So, when we met with Cliff and um Michelle, we had talked about this meeting at the time the president was going to call it. It would be a very quick meeting.

Bang, bang, bang. Because she had a very important appointment and I said, "Well, we're going to be there a while." No, it'll be a vote and we should there are no I was told there are no more cuts coming. the budget should be up or down quickly that night. That's what I thought this was going to be.

Okay.

That's what I was told.

So now it kind of went It frustrates me.

Yeah. Well, it went sideways a little bit, but that's where we are and it is where we are. But she she should not be here.

Well, that that's fine. Yes, she should be. She's a chief financial and she shouldn't have made plans during budget season just like I could.

She relied on people.

Well, that's fine. And I relied on, you know, I relied on myself being here to pass a $49 million budget. We appreciate it. You're welcome. So, I'm going to touch upon the 40 grand. I think we've had this conversation. I really don't care about it. I have many more issues than that 40,000 that everybody keeps talking about, but I'm going to touch upon why I have those problems. And I want to tell you a story

since you're sitting right in front of me and you've been most of the blame for this. So, a couple of weeks ago, I'm driving in the car with my mother. Okay?

She's 66 or 67 years old, just retired this year. So, we're at a red light at Rodman and Hot Wheels Street. She turns to me and she goes, "Can I talk to you?"

I said, "Yeah, of course."

She goes, "You know, your father's 76.

They're about 9 years apart in age." She goes, "I'm worried because when he passes, I have nowhere to go. Doesn't make enough money to live in the city of Fall River." You play a big part in that, Mr. Mayor. You do. And I want to let you know that there are families struggling in this city. And you have the nerve to sit here and tell me that I need to rush this.

No, I told you that.

No, you did.

No, I didn't.

You just said you were hoping this was going to be a quick meeting. Bang. Bang bang vote out.

I was told it was going to be a quick meeting.

Yeah. Well, listen, leaders don't rush things through, especially when they're the helm of a ship called a municipality.

I rely on people every day.

Okay. This is the most This is the largest budget this city has ever seen.

Correct.

All right. So, now you know where I stand from, right? I'm looking out for people like my mother and all of these people in the city of Fall River that you forget about. Okay.

I don't forget about you. You're putting your feelings in me. Just ask a question, Chris. It's fine. I worry about everybody in the city every day.

Yep. Unfortunately, some more than others.

No.

No. Yes. Yes. And this is frustrating.

So, I'm gonna I'm gonna move on. Mr.

Mayor, it's my opinion, but it's it's quite proven, believe me. Miss Arky, let me ask you a question. Without one-time money, could you balance this budget?

So, without the 4 million for diamond, I think that would be extremely tough. We could do it. We could always balance a budget, but it would require cuts of services and programs at that point.

Thank you. So, if we didn't approve that transfer to the diamond stabilization fund, where would we be right now?

What do you mean the the just fiscally? Where would we be if we didn't have the four million? Where were you going to pull it from?

We would be p pulling from departments, programs, and operations. So, that's why now what about the other 150,000 in free cash? I'm going to add that on top of it. Where are we getting that from?

Actually, let me sum it up, I guess, easier. How do we look in FY28?

I'm actually going to direct that question to you, Mr. Mayor. Do you know what we look like going into FY28?

Well, I think we have sign a significant stabilization fund now, more than whenever I got here back in 2020. I think going forward when we look for what we're going to have for new growth, increase tax revenue, what the state does, I mean, we just got 600,000 for a bonus snow money. I uh I know that's every every dollar is going to help, but going forward right now, we're in a much

I think when I got here, there was 500,000 in stabilization. So, we're in a much better.

And what is it at today? I think I asked the last thing about 22.7 million. Yeah. So, we got we got room to go, but there's going to take some cuts and things we have to do together.

And where does our debt service stand for FY28?

For FY28, I do I don't know if I have the number in front of me. I think it's 13.

I think it's just over 13 million. It's all right. So, we have if we have local receipts that are like leveling off at 1.6 or 1.8. Where are we getting the money to pay for all of this next year?

From the new growth that comes in. We we get over $2 million a year in new growth. Um and then the new growth that's coming in this year will have, you know, the increases, tax increases on it. So that's a large part of where some of this comes from. The state aid does continue to increase each year. Um not necessarily at the rate that we all would like it to, but it does increase

each year. So those are part of the ways that this is. I know we plan to review all of the fee structures within um ordinance that we have within the city that we're able to I'm going to say locally set. Um we've been talking about going through that. Um we just haven't had I'm going to say the time yet, but we have started doing a leg work to pull all of that data and information as to

what they are, what other communities are at and and we want to try to move that forward with the council.

Okay. We're also working on trash, lowering um the amount of disposal costs for trash. We were here uh just speaking the other night with the ordinance committee about the change in ordinance going to no more than four parcel four unit parcels picking up trash. So that's going to significantly reduce our disposal costs.

So the point I'm getting at here is the marijuana money. So that's another question I have. That's an increase of $100,000. I think you you said that's because of the um it's a back payment. So, um, just really quick to answer the debt number. I was wrong with a 13.1. It's 12.6 right now, um, for 28's debt service. Um, so with the marijuana and that's not with Diamond and that's not with Conley.

That is with Conley. No, no, that's not with Conley.

Diamond is not part of ours. So, no, it's not with Diamond. It never Conley.

That's another 1.8 or 2.2 roughly at 4%.

Yeah. So to add that to the Conley bill.

So that's another six points potentially. Yes.

Roughly on top of this.

Correct. And again, I don't have those numbers, but it's and it's not set in that sense. So that's why I didn't include that in that.

I just think we're burying ourselves.

I do. I really do. You wouldn't say this is a structural deficit. We just pulled a million from EMS that you tried to put in there.

Like it just seems I tried to put in there from the cost of the indirect agreement.

Yes.

Okay.

Yes.

I Yeah. I um I we are waiting for documentation to come in from PARK right now. Um I don't have a timeline.

We don't even know what that's going to be.

To council Pekkham's point question, I think it was directly asked. Is there a structural deficit in this municipal budget for the onetime money?

I do not think there is. I would not have put in front of you if it was $49. What is it? $500 million I think isn't a good idea in this. I I need to know if we're in a structural deficit.

If we're pulling money from free cash or wherever else to backfill the budget, then we have a massive problem here. So the the free cash to be very clear that 150 is is based on the the temporary increase in law. So this past year, this current fiscal year, sorry, this current fiscal year FY26, we came down for a 350 or $300,000 transfer from precash for these current cases. So we are being

told that that is carrying into next year. So, with that being said, we thought we would plan ahead rather than coming to you after the fact, but it's not something that would stay in, which is why we decided to fund it with onetime money because it's not going to be a consistent expense.

Yeah. The problem is is you raise the tax the marijuana tax by $100,000 and that's not a reoccurring thing either.

So, it is. So, we are getting um the social equity payments had been held up.

We weren't getting that 1% and that's what's being added in now. So, there is amount of retro that we're getting. We actually just got the first one for 26 today and it's over $140,000 that we received for FY26. So given that we'll we'll probably be on track to continue at that rate if you know a h 100,000 I'm going to say to be conservative with it.

So we are receiving that moving forward now. We did have we do are owed to back pay but we are going to start receiving it consistently now.

Okay. Just one last question. Did you ever tell the mayor, and I haven't heard anything, there's been no rumors, but this is just a question. Did you ever tell the mayor that buying Conley was a bad idea?

Did you ever have that conversation?

No, that's not my place to say.

Okay. So, you feel like Connley purchasing Connley was a fantastic idea.

And that's I also didn't say that. I I'm asked about affording the debt and what it looks like in our debt schedule. So, in that sense, you know, I've projected that we could fit it in. So, I I'm going to say I haven't really said whether it was a good or a bad idea. I just am looking at the numbers and seeing what debt is dropping off and and how it

could slide in um with those existing debt payments and not increasing anything. So that's what I have spoken to with it.

All right. Yeah. My problem here is everything seems like it's speculation hypotheticals. We're hoping that this comes in.

Well, that's what projections are is doing the best you have with the information you have to look forward. So it nothing's set until it's set unfortunately with that.

Yeah. Well, I know my colleagues have questions, so I'll leave it at that.

With that, I yield. Thank you.

Councilman C4, Council Vice President Dion.

Thank you.

Um, so actually another issue just came up that I hadn't even considered. So, our trash is not resolved yet. We don't have a definitive number for trash.

What do you mean?

Are you talking about the contract?

The contract. The contract hasn't been settled. So, we don't have a definitive number.

We We do. What's in the budget, it won't go up. We There won't be an increase to the trash contract. we have what they bid and that's how the budget was based off of, but it it the contract just hasn't been fully executed because of I'm going to say other terms within it.

So, so yes and no.

Okay.

So, yes and no. All right.

So, the contract is not executed but that it is fully accounted for as it stands.

But I guess yet again, okay, it won't exceed um perhaps and it shouldn't.

You're right.

Right. Um but again, so we're voting on a number that could change.

So they need an appropriation in order to fully execute it is what I think I was last told. But either way, we can amend. So if we have a budget, we have an appropriation, we can always amend it. But we having something to work from is also the starting place. In the current in the contract, it guarantees that the auditor can guarantee 12 months of payment until the FY27 budget is passed. And if it's a continuing

appropriation, that 12 months can't be guaranteed. So, the contract could not be executed until the FY27 budget is passed.

Okay. But there's also been discussions, Matt Thomas has had discussions with capital with easy um to extend the contract we have now for two weeks so that there's no interruption so that trash can be paid.

I believe it's 30 days. I don't it's 30 days. Okay. I think originally it was said two weeks. So that's even better. So it's been extended by the contract has been extended by 30 days.

So we're not in jeopardy at this moment.

Not at that. No.

So, um, so trash will continue, trash will get paid.

Um, so again, going to if if if it's the will of this council and the end result tonight to go to a 112th, it's not interfering with any services. It's not stopping trash.

Things are being taken care of.

Correct. Correct. A continuing appropriation would not stop any services or activities. the the I'm going to say the burden of the 112th and the continuing appropriation is the time management that every department you know as forget the finance team but every department head is going to have to manage to and and submit the details and continue to do it in that sense. So that's the only I'm going to say cost of

it is just additional time from every department head. So again not saying that it's a reason to not do it. I just want to be clear that it won't stop any operations in that sense.

Yes. So yes, which which is important for people to know that as well. It does not stop government. It doesn't change it. Nobody people who don't pay attention aren't even going to know that anything happened.

Correct.

It's more work. I get it.

Just the department heads. Correct.

I get it.

For 90 days up to 90. Yes. And I would certainly certainly think certainly think and hope that within 90 days we could all finally come to an agreement on the budget, an agreement on the problems we're having uh and move forward. I mean I I I don't see I don't understand why we can't. But again, I'm not saying that's what's going to happen. I'm only one person. It takes an entire body. Um

so I but I do have one more question. So now you were talking about McKini Vinto if there's a deficit in transportation.

Originally at a meeting I thought you said you were going to use circuit breaker money to cover both. There are both as options.

Okay.

Well, there aren't both as options and that's why I'm asking McKenna McKenna Vinto can be used. the city cannot this this the the um administration cannot access or use circuit breaker funds. And I and this is from Desessie and I will read it. A mayor cannot directly access city breaker funds for general municipal purposes including offsetting a school transportation deficit in a nonsp

special education context. These funds are tied to the special education program and must be used by the district for eligible special education transportation.

If a municipality school district is eligible, the mayor can work with the district to ensure circuit breaker reimbursement is claimed and used for the district's transportation needs.

However, the mayor's own municipal budget cannot draw on these funds.

Correct. That's the only thing that we are working through and we are working with the district on that. That's not a unilateral decision, but that's what we've been talking about being available in there that is for special education.

So, of that budget, the $17 million that was proposed by um the school department, it is I want to say the number is about 9 million plus of it is sped transportation. So, special education transportation exclusively.

So, it's not like we're, you know, looking to pull some of the other transportation costs over there. The bulk of the transportation costs are related to the special education transportation.

I guess that would also be a conversation and a debate between the school department and the city side.

Correct. And we've been having those conversations.

And I think they would and I I think based on my conversation with the um deputy superintendent yesterday, you're not going to win that conversation. Um and with that, I'll yield. Thank you.

Uh, council in seat six, council Pekum, just one last thing. On top of all the things I said we have to pay for next year, we're negotiating contracts, too.

Correct.

Um, yes. We still have police and fire um and teamsters open on the city side at this time.

So, that's going to affect Correct. Well, that's part of what the $600,000 reserve is set aside for.

Okay. So, you're projecting that to fall within that $600,000.

I we don't have numbers at this point in time with where we're at in the negotiations. So it it is the goal is to be around those numbers. It's not a perfect math and I don't have a final answer.

Did you take rank structure, seniority, and all that in consideration with the 600,000?

So So yes and no. Again, we don't have contracts for me to fully say what this would cost to say that the $600,000 number is sufficient. So I want to be very clear with that. I I can't say that that's going to be perfectly sufficient because if we could, we would probably have been budgeting for it at this point in time. But yes, I I am, you know, I'm heavily involved with those costings of

those, you know, negotiations. So, I'm aware of the costs.

Okay. I yield. Thank you, Councilman C3. Council Canuel.

Thank you.

So, I want to start by saying I went to your office yesterday looking for the official budget book, right? The this big document right here of which, you know, we're supposed to approve. And I'll start off by saying I received the updated pages. You know, I received summaries and things like that last Friday, but the actual pages I was seeking, I got a 3:44 today for a six o'clock meeting. So,

sorry, 5:30. You're right. So, not even two full hours before this meeting is when I get this book. So, the pages I was looking for. So, I'm going to start there and say that wasn't enough notice.

I got your executive summary on Friday, but I want to complete my analysis in full. I want to see the line on the individual lines. I want to those pages hour 46 minutes. Not enough time.

I submitted it before that time period, but I I understand and I I just I I can't say I want to apologize, but it takes time to put a book like that together. We were only told Thursday to work on resubmitting the budget because we were going to move forward the continuing appropriation. we found out it was a will to have a full resubmission. And if you look at the past times that I've had to resubmit

budget books, it takes more than two days to turn around. It's a lot of work to print and merge and complete every single page of the 200page document. So, I do apologize that it is not as timely as it would like to be, but given the time turnaround we had, I it's not possible.

I I understand that. I think just, you know, I don't know how I'm expected to vote on something where I haven't gotten to those pages. I I got these I didn't realize they were sent until I got home.

I drove in special for this. I was out of town as well. So, um, that's number one. Number point of clarification, if you don't mind, if you don't mind, council, Mr. Mayor, what's the point of all this if she's stating that she doesn't she didn't have enough time to do this?

If she doesn't have the she doesn't have the numbers ready, what was the point of circumventing the council president to have this meeting tonight if nobody's prepared? because it's the last day of the budget year and I thought we could get it done based on the meeting with the uh council president and the vice chairman.

Okay. So, a horse and pony show on the last day of the month before we go to a 112. That's what we're asking for. I think it was more I don't call those people and pony.

My clarification satisfied. Thank you.

Seat three, you have the floor.

Thank you. Uh the school department, um I I have concerns there. I think my colleague in uh seat 4 ultimately outlined. I think you know her and I were in a meeting a week ago Monday in the mayor's office. We were told that circuit breaker could be used. She's uh you know clarified what can be used and what can't be used. So I think what baffles me is that there is a meeting

tomorrow on school transportation, but yet we're being asked to vote on this tonight.

To be clear, we had a meeting last week.

We've been meeting on this that wasn't the first one. We've been meeting on it.

the the meeting set for tomorrow is to meet with a new CFO to discuss it because there isn't one that is in the building right now to have these conversations. So, we were having these conversations with the school department last week and we're told that it's going to be best to wait till he comes in to answer some of the questions that they could not answer that day. So, we have been having those conversations.

I want to be clear on that. But they they wanted him to be a part of those conversations to finalize things.

And that's fair. There have been a number of also emails I think sent to I've been copied on some from school committee members, city council members asking about some specifics on transportation. I haven't seen any replies to some of those and I'm curious, you know, when are we going to get answers to emails on that stuff because I think we're talking about a $17 million number. It's a lot of money.

We're talking about $900,000 difference.

I'm talking about the whole number.

No, but we're talking about the difference of 900,000. And I and if I'm able to talk about a little bit about circuit breaker, we would not take circuit breaker money and use for any non-sped transportation. That would never happen. So it is allowed for sped transportation. And the the McKini Vinto, no matter if we leave them a significant buffer, it would put us in very goodstead. That's all I said.

But one of the things that was asked in my meeting was what happens if that fund were to fall fall short because that was my biggest concern. Okay, there are a couple different numbers falling out.

The school committee voted on one number. What's in here is a different number and there's a third.

If Kenny Pacico comes to me and says, "We have 100 new kids down at um uh Sunset Hill on the Bay Street and they got to go a long haul. We need buses."

We'll come back to you guys and explain what happened with the data and with the facts and I'm sure this council would support the kids.

But my specific question in the meeting with you guys was what happens if there's a shortfall? And the answer at the time was that circuit breaker, there's over $6 million in there that could be used.

No, no, the response is that we would come back before you as required. we've come back before you.

I think it's also important to just note that the amount right now does not include the redistricting on the school department side. I mean, the school department is working right now, the administration on the redistricting of students throughout the district. um they're this was being done for cost savings and to reduce class size, but it couldn't be quantified right up because they can't do that until the summer

starts and they know what students are enrolling, where they're going to be assigned, and what will be done. So, um you know, that's that's another thing that's that's taking place on the school side right now as far as redistricting that's done to in addition to reduce class size, also save money. I'm not convinced the redistricting is going to save any money. I'm just going to say

that. I I'm not convinced that's going to pan out that way. It's great if it does, but I'm not convinced. I I have yet to see data and evidence that that is truly going to be the case. I think that's that's a guess and a wing and a prayer. So, I sit on the committee on ordinances and legislation and I'm going to go back to uh and actually I'll lead with I was not

pleased to see this on my desk u this today a opinion from the office of cooperation council concerning a possible motion or objection vote that objection motion that may take place that hasn't taken place um that was was not asked for by myself or I don't know of any of my colleagues, but I know you've said um it's been said that Mr.

Mayor, you've asked for this legal opinion. Correct.

Correct.

Okay. I I think that I'm I I'm concerned that this is inaccurate, that this is overreach in my opinion. um that when it comes to issues of parliament parliamentary procedure, I got the book right here. Now, there is a charter objection, but we we are governed by Cushings. And when it comes to if the if there's an objection that is made by any of these counselors, if someone wants to challenge his if he

allows that objection to stand, it's up to an individual counselor to challenge that. They have the ability and if they get a second, it can come to a vote. But it is not up to you and is not up to our office of corporation counsel to determine what rules and procedures are appropriate or not appropriate. that is subject to the rule of the chair and we govern by this book and the obviously

the law was in the city of F River to see this telling us that we don't have that ability did not care for it one bit and I've tried to be very reasonable with this corporation council but I've been disrespected on many occasions and I'm going to date back to an April 6 meeting right in this chamber ordinances and legislation where we were discussing some some I think it was around

contracts and contract renewals and I brought up uh some law cases and corporation council suggested that actually I'll back up. It was in a prior meeting I brought up some cases and point of order. Yeah. What is this point of see disrespect in the budget that we're looking at?

I I I hear your point of order but counselor in C3 is speaking.

He's been disrespected. Now he's going to tell us one conversation.

I'm hearing you on your point of order, counselor. I hear you. I'm going to allow the conversation to continue because a legal opinion was put on our desks and the council has the ability to speak to it because it may or may not have a vote as a result of it. So, I'm gonna allow the question. Councilman C3, you have the floor.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm speaking to this legal opinion that was put on because it pertains to a possible motion maybe that they're speculating may or may not happen tonight. So, um he called my uh court cases AI hallucinations. I would suggest that's probably an AI hallucination even though the clerk who was sitting at the table had them printed.

Point of order.

Your point of order.

I don't see hallucinations in the budget either.

Conscency 3.

We're talking about hallucinations and disrespect. I don't see it in the budget. Can we talk focus on the budget?

Well, I think I think talking about this right now. Let's put on our desk.

I heard hallucinations. I don't see hallucinations in there.

Consul 3. You have I don't see what's in our desk. I don't see hallucinations. I read it too. I don't see hallucinations in here or disrespect.

It's an opinion. take the opinion and and go with that or don't go with that.

But I don't want to hear about hallucinations during the budget meeting. Special meeting about a budget.

We're talking about hallucinations and disrespectful. Come on.

I'm speaking stick to the subject.

Can I have the floor, please?

Content, do you want to get a point of order?

Sure. Thank you.

I'm speaking specifically to the legal opinion that was put on and I'll I'll read the title just to so we're all clear. its applicability of section 2-9C of the Fall River charter to the June 30th, 2026 special meeting of the city council. And this was issued as an opinion signed u by assistant corporation counsel Gary Howette and Alan Ramsey, corporation council. And throughout this, I I think I'm concerned

that the opinions coming out are inaccurate.

This this is an opinion. I'd like a second opinion on this. And my question is, if I disagree with this opinion, how do I get a second opinion? And it's for me, it's never been about the money where it sits. For me, it's simply been and back to the ordinance meeting in April, it's when we have a a disagreement of the council and the power that they have and the what the

I'm sorry, Council Can you? I I understand, but that's not on the agenda either. The only thing that No, it's not.

No, it's not.

No, it's not true.

What What your No, I that that was triggered by a conversation I had with with uh Councelor Kadim who told me he was going to object. The swirl was he could, he couldn't, he didn't, he he had the right to. And all I did was try to get some clarifying information. As far as I'm concerned, if you want to throw that in the barrel, that's up to you. I was just trying to get some clarification where

it done. It's not on the agenda. If if if councelor Kadeim had objected, maybe someone would have referred to it. If not, we'd all go home, but it's not on the agenda.

I I'm going to wrap this up. Corporation council in his office in the month of May. I know you're not going to like this cuz you know it.

No, but it's not on the agenda either.

Let him finish. How do you know what he's going to say?

Like because he's told me before.

Can we stop the interruption?

I said when we have a disagreement and and this opinion before me is something I also disagree with.

Mr. Ramsey told me, "If you don't like my opinions, Michael, run for mayor. And if you win, you can replace me." And I find that very disrespectful for an attorney who has told me that he's my attorney. He's your attorney. He's the city's attorney. He's my attorney. I found that extremely disrespectful that he said that to us. And I have an opinion here be for us tonight on something that may or may not happen in

this meeting that is preemptive. And I just find it completely disrespectful to the council that this is in front of us.

You're right. It's not on the agenda, but it's certainly trying to influence the legislative body and the actions it may or may not take tonight. And I think that's out of the purview. And with that, I'm going to yield.

Thank you, councelor. In seat 8, councelor Raposo.

The only thing I want to add, Mr. Mayor, is is on the transportation. And I think the little frustration I have and and the city administrator is aware of this because I had to go to her to get an answer after, let's see, June 18th was the initial email. Um I had a conversation with Miss Arkkey about transportation. Uh we had bounced back and forth numbers of of what she had. Uh

but there was no information from the school department side. So four days later, five emails later, this document that I was emailed, which was not shared with her, I gave to her so she could review it. We could look at it. But my problem with this whole thing, what justifies these numbers? And I I know we're we're on the same page on this.

To be clear, council, what are you referencing? the the um the spreadsheet that Mr. I'll meet to send to the council regarding transportation.

Understood. Their number of what 17 million or something.

Correct. Correct. Understood.

So the question I still am asking I can't get an answer for. How do we get these numbers from where?

I would. Yeah. I councelor Camaro, can we can we speak without the interruptions? Thanks so much. Appreciate it. Counselor, stop with the interruptions.

I just want to know who gave the number to. Right. It's a good question. Who get it from?

You know the answer. Counselor, right?

Let the counselor speak. Thanks so much.

Councelor and CA has the floor. Stop with the interruptions.

Thank you, Mr. President.

Um, so explain to me how did these numbers get justified?

Um, if you I I think you and I went over that when we looked at some of the Vikin Vinto numbers and they were, you know, 900 down to 500 up to a million, all zeros. Um, I wasn't sure.

It didn't look like uh a legitimate uh type of accounting. I brought that up briefly at that first meeting and that will definitely come up again tomorrow.

Um but as you know um CFO um Almeida is leaving.

He hasn't been back in. I did get the opportunity to say goodbye to him last week at his going away party, but I'm we're going to transition to the new CFO starting tomorrow. And um the sheet you have in your hand will be topic A and what we look at as in terms of what we can do to help the taxpayers in the city of Forest.

So what what I want to know particularly when you look at the Mckin Vento fund and the expendited of FY22 23 24 25 how did those numbers end up flat? How did we get a million exactly 500 exact?

I we I don't have a justification for that yet either. So that's been, you know, part of what I am looking for from the school department and and we're not the when we had the discussion last week, the response was we'd like to talk about it on Wednesday with the new CFO. So I we are still waiting for those responses as well.

And I understand that. But here's the problem. Mr. Almea was here during the budget discussions. Mr. Almea was still employed by the city early in June. When I sent the email on June 18th, he was still a part of the school department, was he not?

Yes. Okay. So, why did it take an email to the city administrator to finally get an answer? And then this document that I got on is it the 23rd is the same document that's been shared now once and I have it twice here again. Still with no answer to what it is.

Point of information. I think my colleague should be asking why did it take so long for the city administration to even ask the question.

Ask for your point of information. I should see that you have a floor.

We we did ask for it. We had been having these conversations and we weren't provided anything. We had a conversation before the budget hearing that day and we're told that we were going to get a response and never got one. So, we had been asking for it.

So, Mr. Mayor, and this has nothing to do with the other people at this table.

This is a question to you.

How does this happen?

Um, the school department, right, and the city working on the same page, right?

How do we not get an answer to what is a very simple question? And and you're the chief executive here. And you and I have had this conversation. I I'm just trying to understand when we're at this moment to get this answer and it are we just not answering email. What's the problem?

I I really want to be clear about this.

Um the CFO Kevin Almeida has been going through some horrific family issues. So, he's been in and out.

Yep.

Um I believe he's always done a five-star job for us. I vigorously disagree with the numbers on that paper.

I don't know if he did that to satisfy a request or did he did he give us those numbers because that's what he believed when we talked to him. He didn't seem like he was, you know, Mr. Mayor, that's and that's fine, but is there no one else in the school department that can answer to these numbers?

I I I know I've talked to uh Ken Bacho a little bit, but I don't believe he's me married into the finance that deeply on that side. I think tomorrow there'll be some directions given to how we can find out exactly where this stands. I I I hate to brush you off and I'm not trying to. I'm sorry I don't have an answer, but I believe there's been a a a confluence of

things that screwed this up a little bit.

And again, you've already said to me that you are you and I don't want to misquote you, but you don't agree with this number, correct?

From the school department.

I don't see any surplus on that paper from McKini Pinto. I don't see any surplus on that paper from the circuit breaker saying potential savings, potential loss, our year-to-date expenses. I have don't see that broken down the way I want. Those are the things I'm looking for.

And the other question is that third number that Mr. Das referred to earlier is a 5% increase based on current spending.

So that came from Kevin. That did not come from No, no, he he mentioned it in his citizens input.

My my question is based on what? Because in prior years we had 8% 1% 11% 15%.

Wait did we get five?

We're waiting for a response.

This this is my problem, Mr. Mayor. I agree.

This is the frustration that I have. And it's not like I didn't attempt to try to get an answer days and days ahead of time and it's just we don't have it. And that's the frustrating part for this because again this is on the city side.

This isn't this is our we have to we have to argue and I will say that transportation needs to be checked because it's growing and growing growing and listen the educator in this room right here agrees that we need to transport our kids but we need to have some controls in place because right now again if I can't get answers to simple questions on where these numbers are going and to my colleagueu's point about

redistricting right I would agree that educationally it makes sense classroom sizes, all that. I'm also not sold on the idea it's going to save us money because again to my colleague in C3, no data has been shown to any of us to prove that there's going to be money saved. It could very well happen. It may very may well may not. So, I don't even want to entertain the idea that redistricting is going to save the

district money because there's nothing proven in front of me to actually justify that.

But that's an answer I'd like you to get.

because it's been said on this council chamber before that redistricing is going to save us money.

How?

That's my question.

Okay, I yield, Mr. President. Thank you.

Councilman C2, Council Me.

Yeah. Know, I was just going to say my colleague in C3, I understand you're upset with this legal opinion, but what we do when we don't agree with the legal opinion is ignore it all together. Like he said, throw it in the trash and just base your own form opinion and just go with it. So, it's not like we have to have a legal opinion when we're making our decisions on these things. Whether

we get one or not, if it's unsolicited, you don't like it, ignore it. It's very simple. It's not uncommon. It's It's happened in the past. I've disagreed with legal opinions in the past time I've been here. I ignore them if I don't believe them. And I get people who I trust to give me their opinion, who are better educated on the subject than I am. And that's what we do as counselors.

We don't have to get an attorney to do that. But maybe some people feel they should.

With that, you I don't want to go anymore. I think we should just start to vote on this stuff though.

Thank you. Council in seat one. Council, thank you. Just to piggyback on my colleague in seat 8, so his line of question. So the transportation, do you have the contracts?

Yes. Yes.

So the 5% is it an escalator in there?

No, not that I see in any of it. So when's the first time you've had the conversation with the school department about transportation?

I I couldn't tell you the day.

It was a while ago. I I could look back to figure out when those conversations were, but I I couldn't say that off the top of my head what the date was.

Okay? Because I understand my colleagues frustration, but I I I think it works both ways, right? I don't know how you submit a budget without having answers to transportation, right? So, it goes it works both ways. So, if you're not getting responses and we want to go beat up the schools at the end of the day, and I had this conversation with my colleague when a couple of weeks ago,

the expense is a city expense, right? So you're responsible to make sure and come up with your own estimate in terms of what it is, what it looks like, tie into what the schools are since it's an operation over the schools. So those conversations should be having well advance of of where we're at. So the fact that you can't answer questions, we can't get responses from the school department in terms of where this

transportation number is just leads to the fact that that there hasn't been any dialogue in terms of what the transportation looks like to get a consensus. I mean, I don't I again, when we look at transportation costs, I'm not sure. And I keep hearing about the redistricting. Forget about the redistricting because everybody I talked to on the on the school side said that they don't think that there's going to

be any savings. So, that's that's what I've heard. So, with regards to that, I I I just think that you should have the ability to pull the contracts, read what the contract says. If it's just a per route, they should be able to give you I mean, they they've got they're not to exceeds. They don't have that level of detail to say this is what the route costs. That's part of the

problem with that I'm having with these numbers and estimating them is it's not clear like that. They are not to exceeds that are being used as they're being used and it's not clear to track exactly how that's being done which is my difficulty with this budget.

So I I guess my my issue my concern is is that the school department had their budget I'd say back in December, right?

I don't know when they had but well they start their their budget in December, right? So I would imagine that there's December all all this and they're going through and they've got transportation numbers. So, I'm not saying it was at the school committee, but the administration is working on their budget back in December on on transportation. So, I don't know why we wouldn't have any type of documentation

or backup as to how they came up with that $17 million number because it's very clear that it's there's a 5% escalator in there. So, I where they got the escalator is it again? I mean, typically we see that has been shared with us at this point.

So, typically like in the trash contract, you'll have a two and a half% escalator clause year-over-year for for collection. And so you would think that's exactly what you would see on the on the bus stuff regardless of the of the transportation, but I mean you have to come to a $17 million number. I mean I I don't know where the breakdown is in terms of communication. And I understand people

had, you know, family issues and things of that nature, but there's got to be some type of communication.

We're working on it. That's what I can say to that.

Right. But we're in July starting tomorrow, right? That's that's the problem right?

It is a problem. But I I don't know what else to We've been trying to have these conversations. We do have a meeting set for tomorrow now and I and we've had meetings, but we're we're still working through that as well. So, right and the expectation is for us to approve a budget that that's this this is the collective issue that we but we can amend the budget if there's

something to work from. We can amend the budget if we need to amend it. But by not having any budget at all, it it it doesn't change the fact of the matter of what's going on. So, we we can amend it. By having an approved budget and being able to make amendments, we can focus on the things that we need to focus on rather than figuring out dayto-day operations with a month-to-month budget.

So, you want us to approve a budget that we're not certain on. It can either be a million dollars lower or a million dollars higher and then we'll just make an amendment as to the million.

That's what's required by the time that this is settled. Yes. These numbers came from data and calculations that were building this. So again, whether those are completely set and accurate and firm, you're right, that could change, but that that could be the case either way. Even if with that $17 million number, that could also change. So either way, it could be adjusted or need to be adjusted down the line.

So how how many other numbers in the, you know, $484 million budget, all the other line items have swings of about a million dollars, line items could go up a million dollars, could come down a million dollars.

Maybe healthcare, right?

Maybe healthare, right? maybe insurance, but that's self we're selfunded. We've got claims that you can't see, but outside of health health insurance, is there anything? No. Okay. So to me that that is and we've had this conversation is just unfathomable in terms of not being able to get a number and I understand if it's when we got projections if it's you know $100,000 off or $50,000 off or whatever

the case may be but a million dollars in different directions not being able to be on the same page that's a concern right and and I I think you know we continue to talk about the cost of of transportation and it has a significant impact on the budget. So, from my standpoint, we should we should have a at least a handle on this way before we get to July. That that's just

my take. I I mean it I don't know. It's unacceptable. I agree with my colleague in C2. We should just move on from this.

With that, I yield.

Council in C4 uh seven council Pereira.

I'm just wondering Mr. Pico's here. He does a transportation. Would he be able to shed some light? I don't want to.

I really can't. I'll be honest. the nuts and bolts finance I really can't the only thing I can confirm is what what councilman one said that there is a 5% increase in the contract there is in which just wondered because that's the concern that I have I think that's a big that's a big portion so there's a 5% escalator clause so there's your answer yeah so counselor in seat seven has the floor

And also even with the redistricting that goes on and they're going to have smaller classrooms, you're going to have to hire more teachers, too. So, you have to be cognizant of that.

But with that, I yield. I'm ready to take a vote.

Thank you, councelor NC for council vice president Dion.

Um, I just want to clarify something because people kept saying, uh, Kevin Almeida, Kevin Almeida, Kevin Almeter, and he's not even here to defend himself anymore. But this comes from the forward public schools to the city council from Kathleen Smith interim superintendent of schools.

Date June 23rd CCD Kevin Almeida regarding transportation. So this comes from the superintendent not from Kevin Almeida.

So Kevin Almeida made that it may earlier but it's been said that no I don't want anybody to say anything bad about Kevin. I'm not saying I'm not saying anything bad about not at all and I believe the numbers came from that's a forward but the correspondence came from the superintendent that's the one um office council and I don't know if you if you'd like to have this I made you a comment

I haven't props so um when we had our meeting budget meeting and council uh can was at that particular one and we touched on transportation and I asked you at that meeting are all receipts accounted for are there any incumbrances And at that time you said no, everything is not in.

Yes.

Um we're still waiting for that.

Correct.

So the calculations for transportation on the city side are based on estimating the last estimated cost, the last the last couple of months of cost from when it was done.

So I just want to point out that this states, please find attached our five-year analysis of transportation spending for I don't have my glasses.

Sorry for uh FY 2026 yeartoate expenditures inclusive of incumbrances and requisitions total 16,365,9 uh 63 Well, I can't even do my numbers today. 16,365,94312 as of June 3rd. This figure fully accounts for unpaid June obligations. So in fairness, no, you didn't have the numbers then, but we have them now.

You're saying we don't have them when they So we have we do have that document and we're but we're having conversations on it and and to be this is a conversation that we need to have with the school department. I don't want to speak to what's in there and what's not in there.

And I I we don't have the June bills yet.

We do have the June of Even though they're saying we have them.

Yeah, we don't have the June bills in there. He's saying the June encumbrances are in there.

Yeah. Not the June bill.

Well, the it's POS, but yes.

Okay. Well, with that, I yield and I am ready to vote as well.

Last council asked to speak counselor in seat six, council peek for the vote.

Yeah. I um I can't take any more of this. Every question is we don't know.

We're not sure. It's hypotheticals. It's guess work. Like literally to to be clear, it's because we've been talking about transportation and and that that I stand firm on. We do not have penalties. So to be clear, you started all of these discussions with department heads in April. I reached out to us. Yes, she just said it at the table.

This their submitted budget.

So when did you reach out to department heads, Mr. Mayor, if you got so much to say. Go ahead.

Budget work probably started in January, February. When she said when we started meeting with department heads?

Yeah. $500 million. Do you know when Westport meets? I I don't I'm not concerned about Westport. I'm concerned about Fall River.

Yeah. Well, you should be more concerned and probably hold your meetings a little earlier.

I'm concerned about Fall River.

Yeah. It doesn't look that way. So anyway, um I don't like any of this.

There's too many unanswered questions.

And honestly, Miss Miy, I like you personally. I do. But I have very little confidence in you to handle $500 million. I do. Council President, I'd like to make a motion that we take a vote of no confidence on the CFO of the city of Fall River. I do not think she's capable of managing a $500 million budget. And it's quite apparent by all of the answers that we received today.

That's a motion made by Council Pek. Do we have a second?

Second.

Seconded by council vice president Dion.

Is there discussion on the motion or vote of no confidence?

Harry, no further discussion. Roll call.

Council Scadim, yes.

Camarra, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Carrera, yes.

Reposo, no.

President Ponty, yes. Motion carries. Six yays, three nays.

Councelor in C6, you still have the floor.

I yield the floor. Thank you, Council President.

Um, the item that is before us at this present time right now is uh the uh appropriation order uh that uh the motion on the floor has been made to take the appropriation order uh in its entirety u by line item.

Yes, that motion has been made and seconded.

Hearing no further discussion. Madame clerk, just need to vote on the motion to take it line by line, please.

For the record, council president, the CFO is left.

For the record. Yep. Thank you. Record to reflect the CFO left the council chambers.

I didn't hear what the clerk said. I'm sorry.

I didn't either. Sorry. Madam clerk, if you could just complete the motion to um take the budget line by line. I have a motion that was made and seconded.

Motion to take the Yep. Let's do that. You're right. The motion motion to take the It's already been made and seconded. A motion to take it here by line by line has been made and seconded. All those in favor?

Opposed?

The eyes have it. Next order of business.

Madam clerk. Be it ordered that the annual budget for fiscal year 2027 from various funds is $483,35,786 of which the amount of $471,510,187 be raised from ordinary revenue and municipal receipts for appropriation as follows.

Section A for the purpose of general government. A1.

Motion to take 1 through 10 together.

Motion to take items Motion to reject items A through I. Uh and yeah. Motion to reject all items A through I.

Motion to take motion to take um the budget together A through I and reject to be clear to reject all each each individual line.

Yep. All together one shot.

U motion has been made by councelor Kadim. Do I have a second?

Second. Seconded by council Camara discussion council seat four council vice president Dion.

Yeah yeah the last time that we did a budget in its entirety in one vote and said we reject the entire budget we were that was we were told that went against do which it did. I have the do thing here that it has to be rejected. You have to go line by line. You can't do it in a whole.

So all I'm saying is we're just take we're going line by line taking it all at one shot lines A 1 through 10 B one 1 to three just to be clear. C one to two, D 1-3, E 1-3, F 1 through three, G 1 through three, H 1 through eight, I 1 through 4. It's I mean we can we can do it either way, but it's very clear that we're taking

through the chair to the clerk, Madam Clerk, do you feel that's correct?

My recommendation would be to take it line by line to avoid any question.

Okay, let's do it. I'll agree with our clerk. We're going to remove motion has been removed. Madame clerk, if if you may. Um um A for the purpose of general government. Please introduce that item again.

Section A for the purpose of general government. Line A1 from the general fund for mayor salary.

Motion to take 1 through 10.

How is that? 1 through 10 together.

Just point of clarification. So we're going to take line items and we'll take one all together. One through action.

The same thing we're trying to do.

All right. Never mind. I withdraw that.

Let's just do it. Let's just do it.

Reintroduce item A1 again, please.

A1 from the general fund for mayor salaries $38,57.

Motion to reject.

Second to reject has been made by councelor Dion, seconded by councelor Pekkham. Discussion on the rejection of the line item hearing none. Roll call vote please.

Councelor Scadim, yes.

Camar, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Cart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Pereira, no.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six, three nays. A2 from the general fund for mayor expenses, $20,250.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject. Item 2 A made by council vice president Dion. Seconded by council Lee. Is there discussion?

There's not. Roll call.

Council Kadin.

Yes.

Camaro.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Pereira, no.

Raposo, yes.

President Ponte, yes.

Motion carries, six, three nays.

A3 from the general fund for city council salaries. 258,664.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject has been made by council of Pekkham, seconded by council vice president Dion. Is there discussion? There is not. Roll call vote.

Council Scadm, yes.

Camarra, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom.

Yes.

Pereira.

No.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carry. 68. Three nays. A4 from the general fund for city council expenses $170,700.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject has been made by council vice president Dion. Seconded by council. Discussion. Hearing none. Roll call.

Council kadine.

Yes.

Camaro.

No.

Can yes. Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Pereira, no.

Raposo, yes.

President Pont, yes.

Motion carries. Six, three nays. A5 from the general fund for city clerk salaries $381,990.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject made by council vice president Dion, seconded by councel Pekkham. Discussion hearing. None. Roll call.

Council Kadim.

Yes.

Camaro.

No.

Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Pereira, no.

Raposo, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries, six yays. Three nays. A6 from the general fund for city clerk expenses $35,875.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject made by councel Pekkham, seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing.

None. Roll call.

Council Kadim.

Yes.

Camara.

No. Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekaom, yes.

Pereira, yes.

Reposo, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries, seven yay, two names. A7 from the general fund for election salaries $366,576.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject. Made by council Pekkham, seconded by council Adon. Is there discussion? There's not. Roll call.

Council Scad.

Yes.

Camarra. No can.

Yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Pereira.

No.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six days. Three nays.

88 from the general fund for elections expenses $14,300.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject has been made by councel Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing none. All those in favor?

Opposed?

Roll call.

You want a roll call vote?

I guess I can I So far it's been the same, but we can do that. I'm gonna try to make this. Okay. Is that okay?

Yes.

Yes.

Hearing uh no further discussion. Uh all those in favor? Opposed?

See two opposed.

Two five.

And you opposed counselor?

I'm not opposed on that one.

Constant seat two and councelor five opposed. Next order of business.

A9 from the general fund for veterans benefits salaries $299,611.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject has been made by councelor Dion. Seconded by second councel Pekham. Discussion hearing none.

All those in favor.

Opposed.

Seat two opposed.

Seat two and seat five.

Seat two and seat five opposed. Hearing no opposition. Next order of business.

A10 from the general fund for veterans benefits expenses. 1,651,55.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject. Has made by councelor Peekham. Seconded by councelor Dion.

Discussion hearing. None. All those in favor?

Opposed?

No.

Council seat five opposed.

Two.

Council seat two opposed. Councelor in seat six opposed. Hearing seven.

Councelor she's in seven.

I'm sorry. Ser in seat seven opposed.

You can cut.

The eyes have it. Next order of business. Section B for the purpose of administration B1 from the general fund for administrative services salaries 1,520,877 motion to reject.

Motion to reject made by councelor Peekham seconded by councel Dion.

Discussion hearing none. All those in favor?

Opposed.

Seat two opposed.

Council in seat two opposed. Councelor in seat seven opposed and council seat five opposed. The eyes have it. Next order of business B2 from the general fund for administrative services expenses 3,632,85.

Motion to object.

Motion to reject.

Reject.

Reject has been made by councelor Dion.

Seconded by councel Pekham discussion hearing none. All those in favor?

Opposed. Councelor in seat two.

Councelor in seat five and councel in seat seven opposed. The eyes have it.

B3 from the general fund for judgments and claims $350,000.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject has been made by council of Pekkham, seconded by council vice president. Dion, is there discussion?

Roll call.

Hearing none. Roll call.

Council Kadim, yes.

Camarra, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Heckham, yes.

Carrera, no.

Reposo, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries. Six days, three names.

Section C for the purpose of financial services C1 from the general fund for financial services salaries 1,868,324.

Motion to reject made by councel Pekham, seconded by councelor Dion. Discussion hearing none. All those in favor.

Roll. We'll just do a roll call for everything. Roll call.

Council Scadm.

Yes.

Camara.

No.

Can yes.

Dion. Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Pereira.

No.

Raposo.

Yes.

Cousin Ponty.

Yes.

Motion carries. 68. Three nays. 62. From the general fund for financial services expenses. 344,990.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject. May by councel Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion. Hearing none. Roll call.

Council scadmine.

Yes.

Camaro.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart. No peek.

Yes.

Pereira.

Yes.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries. Seven naysay. Two nays.

Section D for the purpose of facilities maintenance. D1 from the general fund for facilities salaries 1 million $9,797.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject made by councel Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing none.

And all those in fa roll call.

Fiscadim yes.

Camarra no.

Tanuel yes.

Dion yes.

Hart no.

Peekom yes.

Carrera no.

Raposo yes.

President Ponti yes.

Motion carries six three nays. D2 from the general fund for facilities expenses 2,181,465.

Motion to reject. Second to reject made by councel of heckham.

Seconded by council vice president Dion.

Discussion. Roll call.

Council Scadin, yes.

Camara, no.

Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Carrera, no.

Reposo, yes.

President Pont, yes.

Motion carries, six, three nays.

D3 from the general fund for facilities capital has no appropriation.

Section E for the purpose of community maintenance. E1 from the general fund for community maintenance salaries 5,558,125.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject made by councelor Leekum. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Is there discussion?

Hearing none. Roll call.

Council Scadm.

Yes.

Camara.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Pekum.

Yes.

Perr.

No.

Rapos.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes. Motion carries. Six, three nays. E2 from the general fund for community maintenance expenses 17,891,532.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject has been made by councel Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion. Harry.

None. Roll call.

Council Kadine.

Yes.

Camara.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes. Pereira, no.

Proposal, yes.

President Ponte, yes.

Motion carry six, three nays.

E3 from the general fund for community maintenance capital has no appropriation.

Section F for the purpose of community service. F1 from the general fund for community services salaries 2,883,156.

Motion to reject. Motion to reject has been made by councel Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion.

Discussion hearing none. Roll call.

Council Scadin.

Yes.

Camarra.

No.

Canal.

Yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Pekkham.

Yes.

Pereira.

No.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponte.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six days. Three nays.

F2 from the general fund for community services expenses $672,631.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject has been made by council Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion. Perry none. Roll call.

Council Scadm.

Yes.

Camarra.

No.

Canuel.

Yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Pekkham.

Yes.

Pereira.

Yes.

Raposo.

Yes. President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries seven yays, two naysay from the general fund for community services transfers, $30,000.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject has been made by councelor Leekum, seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing none. Roll call.

Council Scadm, yes.

Camaro, no.

Canal, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Pekkham, yes. Pereira, no.

Raposo, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carry, six days, three nays.

Section C, for the purpose of education, G1 from the general fund for school appropriation, $212,582,416.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject has been made by councelor Dion, seconded by councel Pekkham. Discussion hearing none. Roll call vote.

Council Kadim, yes.

Chamra, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Pereira, yes.

Propos, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries, seven yay, two nays. G2 from the general fund for school transportation 12,350,48.

Motion to reject.

Second. Motion to reject has had been made by councelor Raposo. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing. None. Roll call.

Council Kadin.

Yes.

Camra.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Carrera.

Yes.

Propos.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries. Seven yays. Two nays.

G3 from the general fund for education assessments 10,225,442.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject by councel Pekum.

Seconded by council councelor vice president Dion.

Discussion. Roll call.

Council scadm.

Yes.

Camar.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Carrera.

Yes.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponti. Yes.

Motion carries. Seven hands, two nays.

Section H. For the purpose of community protection, H1 from the general fund for police salaries, $24,767,158.

Motion to approve.

Motion to approve has been made by council. Seconded by second council Pereira. Discussion. Roll call on the approval. on approving line item H1. Council Kadine, no.

Camaro, yes.

Can no.

Dion, no.

Hart, yes.

Peekom, no.

Pereira, yes.

Reposo, no.

President Ponti, no.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject has been made by council vice president Dion, seconded by councel Pekham. Discussion. Roll call.

Council Kadim, yes.

Camara, no.

Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Heckham, yes.

Carrera, no.

Rapos, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries 68, three days.

H2 from the general fund for police expenses $2,130,62.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject has been made by council by Dion, seconded by councel Pekkham. Discussion. Roll call.

Council Kadine, yes.

Chamra, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Cart, no.

Pekkham, yes.

Pereira, no.

Reposo, yes.

President Ponti, yep.

Motion carries. Six, three nays. H3 from the general fund for police capital has no appropriation.

H4 from the general fund for harbor mass salaries $4,500.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject. made by council Pekkham. Seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion. Roll call.

Council scadm.

Yes.

Camara.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Pekka.

Yes.

Carrera.

No.

Reposo.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six. Three naysay.

H5 from the general fund for hybr master master expenses $31,000.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject. Made by councelum.

Seconded by council vice president Dion.

Discussion hearing none. Roll call.

Council Scadin.

Yes.

Camara.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Pekkham.

Yes.

Pereira.

No.

Rapos.

Yes.

President Ponti.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six. Three nays. H6 from the general fund for fire and emergency services salaries 19,69,445.

Motion to reject. Motion to adopt was heard first made by councelor Camara seconded by councel Hart. Discussion.

Roll call.

Council scadm.

No.

Camarra.

Yes.

Cano.

No.

Dion.

No.

Cart.

Yes.

Pekka.

No.

Perr.

Yes.

Reposo.

No.

President Ponti.

No.

Motion to reject. Motion to reject made by seconded by council. Discussion hearing none. All those in favor?

I opposed.

Roll call.

Roll call.

Council scadm.

Yes.

Camaro.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

No. I mean yes. Yes. Sorry. Yes.

Hart.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Carrera.

No. That came from yes.

Cousin Ponty.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six. Three nays. H7 from the general fund for fire and emergency services expenses 1,187,788.

Motion to approve has been made by councelor Camarra. Seconded by councel Hart discussion roll call.

Council kadine no.

Camarra yes.

Canuel no.

Dion no.

Hart.

Yes.

Pekkham.

No.

Pereira.

Yes.

Raposo.

No.

President Ponti.

No.

Motion.

Motion to reject.

Motion to reject as made by council vice president Dion. Seconded by council of Pekkham. Discussion hearing. None. Roll call.

Council Kadim.

Yes.

Camarra.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hart.

No.

Pekkham.

Yes.

Pereira.

No.

Rapos.

Yes.

Pleasant.

Yes.

Motion carries six days, three days. H8 from the general fund for fire and emergency services. Capital has no appropriation.

Section I is for the purpose of other governmental expenses. I1 from the general fund for debt service 13,719,946.

Motion to reject. Second.

Motion to reject has been made by councelor Dion. Seconded by councel Pekham. Discussion hearing none. Roll call.

Councelor Kadim.

Yes.

Camarra.

No.

Canal.

Yes. Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Pekkham, yes.

Pereira, no.

Proposal, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries. Six, three nays. I two from the general fund for insurance 52,42,162.

Motion to reject.

Second.

Motion to reject made by council vice president Dion. Seconded by councel Pekkham. Discussion. Roll call.

Council Kadim.

Yes.

Camaro.

No. Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Pekkham, yes.

Pereira, no.

Propos.

Yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries, 68, three nays.

I three from the general fund for pension contributions 44,747,127.

Motion to reject. Second.

Motion to reject made by councel Pekkham, seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing none.

Roll call. Council Kadim, yes.

Camara, no.

Can yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Carrera, no.

Raposo, yes.

President Panti, yes.

Motion carries, six, three nays.

I4 from the general fund for reserve fund $63,13.

Motion to reject. Second.

To reject has been made by councel Pekkham, seconded by council vice president Dion. Discussion hearing none.

Roll call.

Council Kadim, yes.

Camarra, no.

Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Carrera, no.

Raposo, yes.

President Ponte, yes.

Motion carries, six, three nays.

Motion to reject all funding sources.

Motion to reject all funding sources has been made by councel Kadine, seconded by councel Pekham.

No, I'm sorry. By councelor Pekham by councelor Pereira I'm sorry motion has been made and seconded Harry no further discussion roll call on all funding sources council kadim yes Camara no canuel yes dion yes hart no peek yes yes reposo yes president yes motion to reduce the appropriation to zero dollars motion to approve The appropriation by to zero dollars has been made by council

vice president Dion. Seconded by council a pekkham. Is there discussion? Hearing none. Roll call.

Council scadine.

Yes.

Camaro.

No.

Can yes.

Dion.

Yes.

Hunt.

No.

Peekom.

Yes.

Carrera.

No.

Raposo.

Yes.

President Ponte.

Yes.

Motion carries. Six days. Three days.

motion to adopt a 112th budget which the department of revenue is now referring to as a continuing appropriation budget.

Mr. President, if I may, is it the will of the council to adopt the order as amended?

Oh, I'm sorry.

Motion to adopt the order. Motion to adopt the order second as amended has been made by council vice president Dion. Seconded by councel Pekkham. Discussion. Roll call on adopting the appropriation order as $0. Council Kadim, yes.

Camarra, no.

Canuel, yes.

Dion, yes.

Hart, no.

Peekom, yes.

Pereira, no.

Reposo, yes.

President Ponti, yes.

Motion carries 68, three.

Motion to approve a 112th budget, which now the do calls a continuing appro appropriation budget.

Motion made by point of point of information. First point cons point of information.

So we don't have a continuation budget before us. There was nothing submitted.

So we don't have anything to vote on. So I I think what my colleagues looking to do is to take a make a motion that we move forward with a continuation budget.

We don't have anything before us that still needs to adopt. Y right needs to be submitted to us. So I just want to make sure we're clear on that distinction.

You're clear with your motion councelor correct when it comes to that. move forward with a move forward with a continuing appropriation budget because according to the do if we do not have a budget for fiscal year on July 1 due to um the mayor may submit a continuing appropriation budget so that's what we would move forward with motion made by councelor vice president Dion seconded by councel discussion on the item

council in seat seven council prayer I believe it automatically goes if you don't have a budget automatically it goes to a 112th like they used to call it and that they don't call over there anymore after talking to Tom today from do. You don't need to vote on it because that's automatically what's going to happen was what I was told. Maybe the clerk can clarify that for us.

So the next step would be for the mayor to submit the 112th appropriation um as with regards to the council's position.

You could always send a letter expressing that the mayor does forward the appropriation order, but in order for the city to continue operation, that would be the next step.

Okay. Then I make a motion we send the mayor a letter.

Motion made by councel Pereira voted on the other motion yet.

Uh let's just hear she wants to send a letter. Uh council 7 made a motion to send a letter to the mayor for a 112 continued appropriation has been made by council per seconded by second.

Council vice president do you have discussion on sending a letter? Hearing not all those in favor? Opposed?

The eyes have it. Do you oppose the letter?

No.

Or do you have one?

I still want to talk on my motion that we never settled.

Yep. One second. Council C7, you still have a I yield. I just wanted a clarification clerk. She gave that her suggestion was to send a letter. So we send a letter.

Understood. You yield. Councelor, you said I yield.

Thank you. Constant C4. Council Vice President Don on your motion.

Yeah. The only reason that I I made the motion to do this. I agree that it automatically goes. However, with all the jockeying, the opinions, and everything that has happened, and the back and forth and knocking of heads, I just wanted to have an extra precaution.

That was that was where I was coming from. With that, I yield. What?

Motion has been made and seconded. Roll call.

What's the motion?

Madam clerk, you've reintroduced the motion.

It would be to send a letter to the mayor requesting the 112th budget.

No, that was already approved by council Pereira. one by council of Pereira, uh, Vice President Dion. Clarify that again.

So, the motion would be to have the mayor submit a continuing appropriation budget, but you have to do that anyway, right?

Yeah. You have to send it to him. You have to send a motion to do that.

She's just looking for a motion just to be on the safe side of Yes. And and I think we all recognize it's automatic.

Yep. Motion made by council vice president Dion, seconded by councel Pekkham. Roll call. So on on um moving forward with a continuing appropriation budget, council kadine.

Yes.

Camarra object.

Any further objections heard at this time?

Harry, no further objections. Is there any other anything else before this council?

Motion to adjurnn.

Motion to adjurnn has been made by council Dion, seconded by councelor Pereira. All those in favor the eyes have a good night.