6.4.2024 Fall River City Council

city council committee finance will come to order clerk will call the RO Council kadim here Dion here har here Kilby here Herrera here proposal here Samson here president CRA here pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions

are being made whether perceived or UNP perceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible before we begin I want to have Council Pereira get up and Helen could you come down here my Helen she doesn't know why I asked her to come tonight

Helen is is this on thank you Helen is celebrating her 90th birthday but Helen works at the nashille street food pantry every day I think she's the first one there in the morning maybe six she's the president of the Niagara neighborhood association she's on the Park Board in Four River she's on the traffic board she's very involved with David Sandy Dennis in creative art Network she goes

to Joe Primo and Liz Primo's Saturday kitchen whenever she can to help out and she also helps out at the vet's kitchen and I thought it was fitting we all know who Helen is where you get your energy I don't know but I wish I had your jean pool because I don't know at 90 that I would be doing everything that you're doing so we got you some flowers as a

way of saying thank you you want to say something say thank you Helen the only thing that Linda forgot to mention is that you don't miss the city council meeting live and in person uh you've come to more meetings than I think any other citizens I've ever seen him maybe with the exception of Danny robelot but you got age on him so you've been to more meetings than he

has and I want to thank you for that it is true I wouldn't say it if it wasn't true you come to a lot of City Council meetings in person pay attention always get involved thank you happy birthday to you thank you

be here don't be surprised per said I can't retire till I'm 9 all right there you go the cor and her husband was a firefighter for Four River for many years and back then you couldn't live outside of for River if you were a firefighter so I'm really glad they had that if not she'd might have moved to otan and we wouldn't have her so I'm glad it kept you in for

River thank you so much congratulations you're welcome thank you good for that item number one says it's input time although however no one has signed up for Citizens input time so we move on to item number two continue discussion to proposed fiscal year 2025 budget as follows we will have Financial Services the director of financial services come down please first on the

list coun seat 7 C proposal good evening just uh two quick questions um I know I'm probably jumping ahead a little bit but since you're the head of the department I'll ask you I met your new uh Finance analysis and compliance manager yesterday um the question I had was one how's that working out but two um the line item in the budget is that the accurate number for that position so I'm going to

first first I'm going to say that it is working out great we've already um have Emily digging into some some areas that we really want to take better a better look at and that item is um that's not her starting salary but that is the budget where her salary will change with CPI and her contract in January okay actually can I jump in on that of course sure um just as a a general uh guideline

for the entire budget there are a number of uh by contract uh division heads directors upper level folks who have raises or increases identified in the budget most of those are estimates um essentially larger than likely estim in order to make sure that we have the room either for a CPI which may be in somebody's contract so there's a number of of employees that have CPI in their

contract set by the federal government um and whatever that CPI is is how that goes up so two years ago it was it was a ungodly 7.5% which was remarkable uh last year it was a little over 3 and a half% um this year it looks to be closer to two and a half to 3% um so not knowing what that's going to be and knowing that it comes out in January those raises are just

guesstimates uh and then there are others where their uh their year-to-year increase if any is negotiated between that person in the mayor um so again it's more of a placeholder um so I know that there's definitely been some mention of some increases and other things that were surprising um I would tell you that the vast majority of those and I can I can go one by one but I don't want to belabor the point I just

want to do a sort of a blanket statement about many of them the vast majority of those are placeholders knowing that we couldn't be certain as to what those would be for any number of of reasons okay so so let me ask a follow question to that because I noticed in looking in comparing FY 24 to fy2 I noticed that there was some slight adjustments from the FY 24 total to the

fy2 annual salary in the First Column would that explain some of those differences there or in certain situations yes um there are some that are anticipating uh increases that would be tied to a the only contract that's outstanding right now the asme contract traditionally some are um you know some are just not part of asme but are tied to the asme increase uh there's also the law contract which is our three

custodians um um that contract is also being negotiated I don't know that there's any heads that are tied to that U but yeah that would absolutely explain that and is that ever captured in in the in the year-to-year budgets those changes that may happen toward the tail end I think the actuals at the end would definitely capture what the you know what the actual would be uh because some

of those increases you know might actually happen on the first of the year not necessarily on the on the uh fiscal year with the timeline hits okay that kind of makes sense what I was some of the other things I had but I'll stop there as far as that concerned and just give us a little more um details on on Emily is her name I'm sorry is that her name Emily um what is

her role looking like right now what is things she's kind of working on I'm just curious because I don't really know much about the position itself so um right now um as we all know that we we've all been talking about it for at least the two years I've been here is um trash and our expenses associated around trash and recycling and that so we're actually taking a very deep dive into analysis

there so we can look at Trends we can see where there's issues what neighborhoods um look at our tonnage and what's going on with that and recycling so that's a big project right now that we really need to um dig into so we can make good decisions so those are the immediate immediate priorities that was the immediate priority yes awesome yeah okay I'll yield for now thank you thank

you CC c c coun Samson uh so I have a couple of questions here I think I got to jump around to the way things are placed so um I guess I'll start off with um I was not in favor of that let me see what you call her financial analyst and compliance manager I was very vocal about that I uh thought um this department has a ton of consultant with

EDI Capone and it just wasn't fair for the taxpayers to now put another help now I know that she is a compliance person but her job description that was put before us was definitely a almost like an assistant to you but with that being said I went and met her and she is phenomenal she is worth every bit of that salary on the high end she's passionate she's Fall River she understands Fall River she's brilliant

she's smart she's exactly what this department has needed and what is needed and so I'm hoping that she stays and grows and stays in the city I am which is why I went to meet her because I didn't want her to think that we're all bad people because I was very opposed to it but you are um well-received but with that being said because she is in at a higher salary um I'm still not going to

give up on the fact that now I've only been here now two years two and a half years I don't whatever Ed I Capon is still here but I'm having trouble unless he's done and I don't see it I'm having trouble finding what we're paying him so um Ed I Capon has been down to like four hours a week and Ed wants to go home so now that Emily's on board and we're

acclimating um Emily into you know how we do things differently than where she's from and everything Ed's not going to be around he does not want to be here okay I well look I I you say that every time you come down here I have a hard time with that because if someone does not want to be here they're not going to want to be here he's here because he's

being asked to be here he's working he's not doing this for free this has nothing to do with Ed but we have needed a service and so um this is I think the third budget I've been on and we' every single time it's Ed's not going to be here any longer Ed come on he's not gonna be here and now it was four 10 12 and I'm and really I'm sick of it

because I don't really believe it until I see it and here we are with another budget we brought on another salary and in fact even though it's not budgeted for a cost the assistant assessor um is still in here auditor assistant auditor position is still in there although it has nothing on it yes I think we did argue to take it out of the budget but we didn't we didn't take it out of um

ordinance but so we have all of these things and yet we're now he's down to 4or hours I think I've heard four hours I think I've heard 10 hours I just don't think it's fair I think you have exactly what you've asked for you have asked for a dynamic Department you have a dynamic department now and I'd like to see the taxpayers not have to front the money anymore for that department to have a

consultant still it's enough with that I yield for now thank you c yeah um I'd like to Echo my colleague sentiments in CA I agree 100% And we did we said removed two two positions from the budget but we didn't get that so clearly clearly I remember we were told that the assistant auditor salary would go towards the salary of the individual being hired and the purchasing agent salary would go towards that as

well if if you look the assistant auditor salary has been removed the purchasing agent salary has not been removed hasn't been reduced and in fact increased by $113,000 can I address are you ready for me yeah I'd like you to address that so as we were um working through um the way we're handling our purchasing department and we've actually been in contact with the um inspector General's office and we

do need to make some modifications to that so we are actually working on a plan um between myself in the administration Seth um Al ala and our assistant Treasurer who's been stepping in so we do need to to um excuse do something a little bit more than we were going to try to do because we wouldn't be in compliance with uh state law and the Inspector General but we didn't know

that when we were discussing the new position and saying that we were going to we did not know that at the time that we needed to have a d so how did we go about finding that out um the and why did we why did we find that out so as we've been uh doing some cleanup and purchasing and with combes um which is the where you have to put all of your bids and um purchasing

through we had we found that there was a lot of a lot of things that were still in there from years ago that we had to clean up and so the AL laa and um Rebecca our assistant treasur have met with the um inspector General's office a few times to try to make sure that we're in compliance cents and and doing everything we're supposed to be doing so in conversations with them is where we

know that we need to now we're not going to hire a full-time full assistant purchasing agent isn't the plan we're actually talking about hiring like an assistant purchasing agent but right now it that office is too busy and there's too much at stake to just have a part piecing it together with part-time people and just one clerk so we do need to do something we will be bringing

something else forward but we don't have that whole plan laid out so what I find interesting about this conversation is when this first came up an ordinance we these are the discussions that we had you had counselors myself one of them who said a Municipality of the size should not be operating without a purchasing agent because of the rfps because advertised for all the reasons you just

stated we had those discussions but no we were assured this position was going to be funded by taking so okay I'm very very frustrated because not only did we not get what we asked for so you could get what you wanted it's completely changed you're talking about an assistant purchasing agent but the position salary was increased by $113,000 so have you considered what you're offering

to an assistant purchasing agent is Mr Aliva going to still be involved in the purchasing portion is Rebecca still going to be involved in it are we going to be paying three people instead of one person like we used to because part of our issue was we didn't want to create a new position and still have all this other funding for other positions in the budget but that obviously got completely blown out of the

water I'll jump in so I wouldn't agree that it got completely blown out of the water um so there's a lot going on here and I think to some extent this conversation has made a little bit muddier by the fact that um most folks ordinary folks don't really understand exactly how the purchasing process is supposed to work and I would say that when I took the position I didn't understand how the purchasing process

was supposed to work so we actually have a number of people trained I think we have four or five folks either already trained or in the process of being trained um you know from fully trained in experience like Mr all Vera um Rebecca in um the finance department has much more experience than she even had a year ago um attorney hum has gone through the training uh the uh the staff

in the purchasing department the clerk she's gone through the training uh we have other folks scheduled to go through the training and the reason why that's important is that purchasing has to begin in each department none of the departments were following purchasing the way they were supposed to because they didn't know um so the first step in what we said what I said all right I'll

take responsibility for it because I'm the one who said it um is that we acknowledged that purchasing wasn't happening the way it was supposed to and uh we thought that by getting people trained to do the purchasing that would solve um the issue that we had which is that it just wasn't happening at all correctly uh and in fact we've solved some of that the problem is that for the

bigger things the the rfqs and rfps um that is a hole that I did not anticipate I thought we'd be able to do it all at the department level so um what CFO almond is proposing is something that is really a pretty fluid conversation still you know there is talk about an assistant purchasing agent there's talk about um you know whether or not attorney hum can ass assume that role

once you know as arpa is tapering down so there's a lot of different options um and to be honest I think the reason why that was left in is because it's actually not a very clear path forward at this point we have people in place at the department level that are that are creating accountability that hadn't been done it's now being done the the reality that we actually have to have an official purchasing agent is not

something I realized when we when we put the department level plan in place so it hasn't been blown out of the water it's just evolved a little bit because there were pieces that I didn't realize um because I you know I myself am not purchasing certified um I probably know more about it than I ever did um but I wasn't purchasing certified when I came up with this idea that we needed to deal

with it at the department level and I didn't realize there needed to be a central purchasing agent so um at this point there are conversations but I would not say that there is a definitive plan and to be honest with you and I think reasonable people can disagree I probably would not have um In This Moment articulated it with such certainty because I actually think there's a lot of different possibilities

for how we move forward with purchasing and I think reasonable people can disagree as to the best way forward question to the president are we ultimately going to go line by line or can we at any point in time make a motion for a reduction in a line item and refer it to full Council you can do whatever you want counc what the will of the council you can make a

motion if you gets a second and the council votes on it um it all depends would like to go line by line do whatever but you can the council will dictate what it wants to do I'm not going to push it one way or another no well I just if we're going to go line by line eventually then I'm fine with that if we're going to take a vote like last

year just all of a sudden everybody's ready to vote let's vote and we don't do and we don't have that due process I don't want to miss that yeah I don't I can't control that though C information sure yes I Mr President y uh Madam clerk if if I may uh prior years when we went line item by line item we utilize the appropriation order that we have so if the council for example wants to reduce

General government by a million dollars you would reduce when General government comes to a million you also then need to reduce it at the top as well so to our colleague and seat to our colleague and seat 2's point it would be through the appropriation order but just wanted to make that clear but she could do that at any time she wanted I mean she could make the motion to reduce any line item

at any time she wanted doing the hearing yeah point of clar that that was my point I'm not too sure of the answer so probably uh it should be consulted with um I'm sorry Council p i i I believe uh we got uh slapped on the wrist on this before because the council needs to refer it to full Council for action and not done on the committee on finance which is where we

obviously right I'm doing during the council meeting okay right sure yeah yeah obious correct can't make yeah exactly but I'm talking during the council meeting that you can't vote on Budget Finance right so she I can't I think her question was Mr President a recommendation to correct recomendation to go to thank you my point is I'm not driving it one way or another it's the of the council whatever Council decides

and get seconded and voted on and I would like to go and line by line final meeting that's why we scheduled six meetings and we actually scheduled another one for a final one of the 12th right just in case we need to go that far so we're we're here for the Long Haul I'm I'm fine yeah yeah yeah the question was was make make a motion and refer it to full Council so we do it

properly or do we just wait and we will we vote to do it line by line that was all it was just a basic question okay um yeah basic answer we're good I'm I'm going to hold off right now anyways um because I am really struggling with this one um you you CC yeah for now I'll yield counc C4 Council kby you had your hand up I'm content right now thank all

right I I I just have a question if you don't make um Mr Akin and I know you had said earli that the purchase Department there was people were doing what they wanted do we cut a purchase order number for every item that we purchase no no I mean some well we do but some are through combes I mean they they all go in different you know many there's many different ways in which you

can purchase yeah uh I think if you had if you had a central location where you're purchasing something and whatever department or individual want to purchase anything they should be able to get a purchase order number that's relative to what they want to get and then the control is the purchase order number so everyone will know someone who purchased the B will know exactly where

that purchase order number is and what Supply to do we do that yeah sure yeah I've been told in the past that people just have purchasing stuff without purchase orders and they just saying I'll give you PCH later so there's no number assigned to that purchase has that happened it certainly has happened so then not going to sign the purchase order number that that that should be stopped right then and there no one

should be able to purchase a pencil without having a purchase order number before that purchase is made so there is no purchasing that's off the Record or that there is no record of that that is not happening okay um at one time um I think there certainly were purchases that were being made without going through the appropriate channels uh and obviously we're talking about you know

over certain thresholds you know where you either need to get free quotes or you actually need to go out to bid I mean there's you know there's the escalating thresholds um that is not happening uh but what definitely was happening um in this is probably more in that realm of of the three quotes there were things that were just being purchased because it was easy um you know Amazon for instance is not on comis

it's not in the mass buys permissible list um so there had to be other ways um that we uh that we did that uh and that's a conversation we've not only had internally but also with schools because they need to be you know compliant as well I know they're working on that um so there's been a lot of little things that have required um reminders and additional training we're doing training

um inhouse with uh all of the the clerks and department heads uh to make sure that they understand how to comply uh so there's been a lot of steps that have been taken uh to basically fix what you know had been happening uh years past okay thank you for clarifying that c c six C do you you mind C for thank you so I I think Council Dion does make make a good

point I mean uh in the past we have voted on the overall allocation appropriation for each body school department and with on the number um but it might be a good practice this time and going forward and I know I'm thinking about this pondering it to go line by line and a motion could be made by whoever and if it's that there'll be some discussion on a specific line item you follow what I'm saying is because

we've done it both ways okay so yeah we have we have done line by line and we've done yeah it doesn't take long it takes a half hour or so that's why I said that's why we got six minut schedu whatever everyone whatever anybody wants to do it for me if it's more efficient either way um but as long as we're foll in practice I'm fine with that councelor so okay thank you you will

decide so I just um I don't I know if everybody realizes that all of the school purchasing goes through the purchasing department here at City Hall so we're responsible for all of the purchasing all the purchase orders and again and once you're doing anything with federal grants you have to follow Federal procurement rules which is a lot more cumbersome than just and and you have to also check the vendors to make

sure that they're not in any kind of violation so there is a lot more involved in purchasing than I think you know everybody understands and and unfortunately it's very com some um you know sometimes you just can't just go with the best price the way you have to if it's over a certain threshold can I respond to that since I started it well you don't you you're the floor counselor so now there's other

counil want to speak first you can come back I I get you down you can come back and see but that's fine right we're going to move on to council number seat six C Ponting thank you Mr President um we'll get back to this purchasing uh position in a moment but I I want to kind of if it's appropriate now uh because it is through the collector's office uh motor vehicle revenue and

excise uh tax if I may hit on this for a moment if it's appropriate are you guys prepared to talk about it okay so um within the collector's office in through local receipts you're anticipating your motor vehicle excise tax this this fiscal year to jump up uh this is Page 42 under your revenues even though it does fall under this department um at $8.5 million an increase of $150,000 for

motor vehicle excise tax now prior my prior experiences here on the council I've been quite um conservative while the administrations have been a little over conservative or not so conservative when it came to the pro projections of Motor Vehicle excise tax so looking at your quarterly report uh that we just had in quarter uh three there was in a transfer within motor vehicle excise tax last year of

$250,000 was that in or out of that department there was a transfer slash adjustment your original appropriation was y oh so that was so when um when the final cherish she and when um when we've made our final adjustment I think we reduced the motor vehicle excise but i' have to it was a it wasn't it wasn't showing it looks like it you reduced it from 8.6 to 8.3 yes so that

means which is what your budget showing but what makes you feel that we going to get more excise tax by $150,000 this fiscal year so actually our treasur collector and I did look at motor vehicle excise pretty extensively and we've actually um exceed we've already exceeded our expectations for this year for our budget so we feel very comfortable with this number can I have uh Ian come down and speak about this as

well I'd like to ask him absolutely please come down please Mr President just through you point of information can I just ask the clerk if do you have all the Massachusetts General law that we've adopted or is it easily accessible yeah can you just check if we adopted uh chapter 41 section 103 thank you how are you sir pretty good how are you nice to see youo um and I I I I appreciate Miss alman's comments

on this can you elaborate a little bit what went into your analysis when it came to motor vehicle excise tax projections for Revenue um so in the last um we sent out our biggest commitment in February yes um we don't know ahead of time how much that's going to be it comes right out of the RMV they send us the file and we send out the tax bills this year we had um I the exact

number but it was close to 2,000 extra bills than we' ever had just on that first commitment each subsequent commitment has also been higher um so we in terms of dollars or in terms of dollars and number of bills number of bills okay so um that number is increasing um year after year number of bills do total dollars um we've already hit our budget for this year so I I really am not concerned about hitting

this excise number this year or next year so you feel confident did you exceed your 8.3 million for fy2 24 yes by how much um we're appro yeah we're approaching uh uh 9 million right now oh and and growing wait there's going to be a there's going to be do you feel like you're going to hit 9 8.5 going into next Year yes without an issue yes do you feel like you'll hit nine well that

would be so to go up to that level would be concerning so again you don't want to overestimate your revenues because otherwise if you don't hit them then you have to cut things sure so we felt that this was you know I and I spent a lot of time on this and we feel very comfortable with these local receipts how about meals tax you feel the same way about that yeah we

yes so we I mean we we extensively have analyzed these local receipts and again you don't want to be over zealous because that would be we'd have to then cut the budget in other areas so again you want you want to come in conservatively and you want to be able to at least meet and exceed them and the hope is to exceed them so you feel in this Municipal budget that we have that

you are conservative in your Revenue projections overall I feel that I'm appropriately conservative yes okay um I'll yield for now I just wanted to speak on this thank you thank you CC CC C5 yeah I don't know just I think uh in in talking about those revenues we do have a lot more people that have moved into the city with buildings going up everybody's got a car so uh you know

that that's going to go up but you talked about uh doing a deep dive into trash that deep dive into trash is the legal department doing a deep dive as well into the contract yes uh that's actually been going on for months um um so not only have there been numerous conversations with our different haulers um in the different at the different stages easy as you know picks up everything from

Solid Waste to recycling to lawn and then we have U different haulers that actually do the actual uh carrying away of the different items um so pick up and Disposal the contract itself uh as you're very aware uh has a lot of problems with it it has the commercial uh items that we stopped uh some time ago um more than a month ago now I guess um it has a number of Provisions

regarding who takes title to the trash and all sorts of other things um we have been digging into that or in negotiations um with attorneys for different entities that are responsible for our trash uh trying to work out some of the inconsistencies uh in our different contracts so we've been working on it for quite some time because our tonage is higher than it was so there seems we we don't um so once we

stop commercial um in the first month the tonnage seemed to be allegedly higher than it was in the month previous when we had commercial which makes no sense at all um so we're actually in the midst of a fairly robust look into why that could be where is that trash being dumped now well it depends on on what you know which ones you're talking about so we have some that goes up to the transfer

station in North part of the city um it depends on whether it's uh Republic or Harvey or easy that's taking it away but there's there's uh a couple different locations and all of the items in the contract with all of these companies are being fulfilled per contract when you say being fulfilled like all of the duties that all the the everything that's in the contract that we have with people are they doing

everything that they're supposed to be doing because I know that in some of the contracts if they don't do certain things they refines Etc um have we looked into any of that or is that what you're looking into now that's what we're looking into now uh I don't want to offer a legal opinion uh because that's not my role here um but I will say that it's being looked into and we're trying to create accountability

around the terms of the contracts when do you think that will be made aware of that because for the past I don't know know how many years we've been talking about trash it's a tough item to talk about but there needs to be a resolution and it's going to be a tough vote for all of us to take but we we have to take that vote we have to get our arms around

that it's it's crazy um how much are we still paying and I couldn't find that in here um for the trash trucks that we no longer have I think that b is done can you speak microphone please speak the microphone who um we had we had started to look we did look into that and I don't off the top of my head I don't remember but I believe that bond has

been pay it's not I don't think we're paying on it anymore I thought we still had two years to go 500,000 500,000 and then 200 and something you you might be right but we will I'll check on that and get back to you it's a next meeting one yeah it's no I'm just yeah the it's from the when you sold the trash trucks and they was still a bond yes well if you

could let us know for the next meeting um and I think a city this size deserves to to have its own purchasing agent alen Robinette when she was here did an awesome job all the Departments should go through there because what happens is some departments will say this is an emergency and go out and purchase something if it's under a certain amount um and a purchasing agent we don't want

to get in trouble with the attorney general or anybody else you need to have a specific person the last time we were here I Believe Miss Alman was going to do stuff and you were going to do stuff working together to do the what else can you do you can only spread yourself so thin and I don't think that's fair and we tend to do that in the city Ian's kind of carrying the load of two

jobs and he's doing a great job at it but is it fair you know we are a big city and we need that and we talked about that at the ordinance committee meeting and I think that that should stay in the budget and we should hire a purchasing agent because that that's needed so it's also absolutely needed sorry in my opinion you just can't have people everybody's going for training for this have a purchasing agent and

everybody goes to the purchasing agent we want to train people for everything so whatever else they're doing we're also going to train you for this and train you for that we need to we need to have specific people to do a specific job so I I agree on 100% but the reason for the training is that the specs for a requirement for instance you know uh we developed a spec from the parks the

other day for some fencing the people that are in that department they actually know the need they also know the conditions on the ground better than anybody right um so if the spec for a requirement that we're going to purchase is going to come forward if we have somebody that's trained in purchasing and also knows firsthand the requirements of the of their Department that's the ideal and then that goes up

through the processes up to a purchasing agent who then says yes and they come in and meet with the purchasing agent and give them all the specs and the purchasing agent makes their decision it's like you know two people to do one job doesn't make sense so it's also the aggregate of the vendor so like you if you spend you know over $10,000 with the vendor but if schools do it and then we

do it we're the same we're the same entity same Ein so it's like you have to be able to pay attention to Aggregates as well and that's gets it a makes it a little more complicated exactly if they H getting from the same the same service that the city's getting or going to the same well or even like multiple departments within the city otherwise they could consider it bid splitting so

there's a lot more to it that we you know we just need to make sure we're doing things correctly so I I agree 100% we need a purchasing agent and it was my mistake not to believe that we didn't um and you know I come from a place where when you make a mistake you admit it um you know there are definitely environments where that's going to get you shanked but uh like here but um I'm

just admitting that I made made the mistake uh that we want to correct the mistake and um it although I I I will respectfully disagree that I don't think it's as simple as all going to a single person because that's what was happening under prior purchasing agents and there was a lot of things getting missed because um there are so many different steps to it um so yeah I should have uh

I should have seen the need for not only additional training but a single purchasing agent I didn't get it um I'm seeing it now in process uh and I've changed I've been here for a while and when Ali Robinette was doing it and she had you know an assistant there it was run very smoothly and then all of a sudden when she retired out um you know we had Tammy doing what three jobs burnt

her out she left you can't do it all um I just think we need to have more focus on this because I think it's really important to make sure we get the bids we do the openings of the bids at a certain time Etc and you have to follow all the procurement laws um and I wouldn't want to see something being done accidentally not saying that anybody would do anything on purpose but

accidentally because of lack of experience so I think you need somebody who knows uh what they're doing I'll I'll hold for now I'll give for now Mr President thank you thank you Council C C7 Council Coro yeah just want to continue on the conversation with the purchasing agent why does the school department have their own so we actually um we've they've actually started doing some getting some

training I think two if not three people and we are going to then delegate anything under 50,000 to them and though we'll still be responsible but they can't just do it separately completely because it's again we're still one EIN we're one one entity yeah which I figured that was the case but they they don't have do they not have a person that then reports back here for their purchasing particular for schools so

that's what they're working on so they're identifying someone they've told us probably who it is um and then we will then so then we again we have to file that person's name with the uh ig's office and where does that cost come from on the school department side yes okay so Mr Rick I'm I'm sure I apologize if I missed this but the rationale of why it went from 62 to 75 though it's a vacant position

purchasing agent so I can answer so we we had advertised for purchasing agent um and we actually had interviewed people going back over a year year and a half ago and even this is the 7 75 is not going to cut to get a full-fledged purchasing agent I mean they're making significantly more in other in other cities so again like the we haven't finalized the plan but the plan

is to um you know work on it with the mayor and the administration and again we will then come back and we will have our definitive plan but we know that we're not going to find someone we've had difficulty we've looked for a long time and so now we're looking to try to make something that will work for us keep us in compliance and you know not burn everybody out it's fair

um so let's go back to local receipts now now that you answered that Licensing in permits um it's down 47,000 I'm curious with the new online licensing system at this point is it helping to drive those local receipts at all so again like so licensing permits so those were done at the departmental levels and like we talked to them about it and that's what they've um they are seeing that there's some permits that are

decreasing because you know there was a big boom during Co and so they feel that those are going to decrease a bit we we are seeing a lot I mean we because we process the open of payments um in the collector's office I don't the I don't know the average well since November when we when we started this process um we've processed over 2900 um licenses and permit um application payments and um the great

thing about it is people don't have to go up and down from the fifth floor every time they come in here back and forth um that's been a big help and um we're also getting faster at processing the payments and we're getting faster doing the tax certifications because those are now digital as well so the whole thing has just been expedited M and people seem to be really liking it

and um yeah I mean I had the pleasure of doing it myself for for the parish fees that we just had recently um but my question was when you first apply for it there's a there's a fee you pay I think it was like I don't know $29 that goes to the process e or go that goes to the city the like the convenience fee for using it no we don't

keep that money now so that goes that's for and the and the credit card companies and and that thing and the other part is the licensing fee itself that goes to the city correct okay all right so they're they're comfortable with the idea that's probably going to go down going into next year yeah I mean so there's a few different departments that that hits and um they they do feel

that it's adjusting down again I I mean we don't really I mean we're talking about um we were pretty conservative we met with the Departments that their revenues hit in local receipts and I mean I feel we feel comfortable with these okay all right thank you any C2 counc DM um on page 132 Treasurer payroll so it's to be determined uh but the title has changed from project specialist to project specialist SL tax

title um is that a responsibility that person always performed or is that an additional responsibility no so that project specialist um in that in the treasurer's office has been always handling um the majority of that is tax title I just put that in I added that to the end so that we could you know be a little more transparent because we use the the project specialist to do a lot of the um the

like helping with the collections and the the payment plans that we are where that our attorney also works with and I can tell you that we are compare if you want to compare us to other like Gateway cities and municipalities our receivables are far less than new bedfords and I actually um know the number um so that that position more than pays for itself because I can tell you that so

our out for our tax levy which is very similar to um new for our outstanding receivables in 22 were 1.4 million where New Bedford was 4.1 million but our tax leans and tax title were 4.7 million where new bedfords are 14 14.2 million so I mean this is a very important position um works it's very customer service oriented and it works with our taxpayers because we don't want to be foreclosing on homes and we we want

people to stay in their homes and we want to work with them agreed um we still however do have attorney Thomas who does tax title for us correct oh yes but that's that's also about a when you yeah I mean land and yeah I mean and he's paid entirely out of that tax title so there's there's no money out of this I mean there's money out of the tax title um a reage but there's no

additional money from the city budget that goes to pay his fee so this is another one of those departments that you go from a 1.4% increase in salary to a 15.11% increase in salary um again the discrepancy so our Treasures salaries went up um 5% overall overall their budget to go up so there's a small there they are again they're um Union employees and they are you know we are in contract

negotiations with asme right now so there's a small increase budgeted so one of the positions in fy4 from FY 24 to FY 25 went up $6,000 so that position may we had somebody at a lower step I trying remember who that was yeah so I I mean again those are all based on the contract negotiations and based on steps so I I don't know which particular person you're talking about which job class description councelor senior

accountant the last one the last senior accountant so that that is somebody that came um over to us from another department at TOP Step so I'm trying to remember who's in the position prior but again those so was somebody that was already working for the city yes yes okay as you know when a a union position position is open it's offered internally first um so anybody who's already working for the city uh in a similar

capacity can can bid on that position um that particular person was already in another department she was already at the top step of the grade for that um so it was a big jump when she came over it's not the same person that was there at the beginning of last year um so back to this whole purchasing issue um so yes you made a mistake I think shanked is a little extreme Reed might be more like

it um my problem is this that we had the discussions the ordinance committee asked the questions the ordinance committee at the time said we needed a purchasing agent and we were told everything other than that um so my question is this so now if you going to get you you've got $75,000 put uh funding a vacant position so where did the money come from for the new position that we weren't supposed to

call a new position because we weren't creating a new position because we were taking money from two other positions to fund it the money came from the assistant auditor position the majority of so we we had money budgeted as for an auditor and an assistant auditor last year we then promoted someone to auditor and we used the combination of those funds to fund this other position the combination of auditor and

assistant auditor is what funded it now and so the vacant purchasing agent we actually are um so again our assistant treasur has stepped into that role and is spending um a significant amount of her day and working extra hours to help us you know complete all these tasks and put out the bids so the assistant auditor's salary in FY 24 was 77,6 48 so do we know where the

um what the do we so we don't know what the dollar amount is going to be for this new position but we're paying somebody to work in a position we're paying somebody um a stien out of this out of this money are you talking about the analyst position yes so we do have a some certain for the analyst position yes you have a what I'm sorry some certain a some certain sorry lawyer lawyer talk I

got to really break my uh break that habit we do have a identified salary for that position it's not I assume that's what you meant but so I answered that with Council repos asked that at the beginning um we yes we her salary is set and then there's a raise that will happen in with her contract it's in CPI for January so okay well I I don't want to interrupt you but I am going to

interrupt you because I get that but we don't know what the salary is yes we do what is it so her salary started I believe at 115 and then there's a CPI that will happen oh okay but we don't have that well because so she just again so she just started two weeks ago the budget was being done and printed out before that the budget was actually submitted before um I had that final

number so and yesterday when we came in we had four pages to replace Pages for modifications all right I'm not going to keep going around and around with this but this whole thing is actually giving me a headache so those four pages didn't change the front of the budget those four pages were just some edits correct yeah so they didn't change the budget all right so in terms of the

appropriation so the appropriation on page five it's $412,900 533 budget um can you walk us through obviously local receipts are going to compensate um some of this so ordinary revenue and Municipal receipts 42645 738 which is a difference of $10 million 28879 so can you walk us through this appropriation and and explain how the appropriation will be met

so I mean if you go to page three and you look at all of our

resources so again with our resources and our property taxes and um you've already voted on water sewer and EMS is where we come we use those numbers to get to the the appropriation each of those Appropriations are just on the expenditure side which is what you would vote on and those all tie out back to all of the pages for each of the

Departments I know it's not on our agenda and I should have asked it last night but at the same token you weren't at the table and I maybe it's going to come up another night I don't know it's just one quick easy question the grant writer had an increase of $4,000 half of her salary comes from the school department and again this is this has nothing to do with whether I believe

people deserve the pay they're getting or don't that's no reflection on that so I'm going to say that a zillion times my question is half her salary is on the school side half her salary is on the city Side did her salary go up 4,000 on both sides or did the city only take the uh impact of the $4,000 salary split 50 50/50 between this the city side and the school side so that what you're seeing

reflected is her is what's been what I was instructed to budget for her for the city's half of it and then the school department will pick up the other half so you're asking if the raise is equal on both sides yes yes okay thank you you're welcome um for now I'll yield thank you thank you um just want to ask a question how many more scenarios are there're in this budget where something

happened after the budget was submitted to the council but the council was not aware of any positions and how much dollar amounts with those positions is that scenario that you just mentioned about $15,000 the only position that was added or created or put in the budget afterwards no well I don't know I'm sorry I'm not sure what you mean by afterwards that was submitted in this budget right from the beginning that

wasn't added after well it wasn't in the budget we were just no it's in the budget so what was budgeted was 125,000 because at the time we didn't know we didn't have a final salary When I Was preparing the budget Oh I thought I thought I heard you say that you the budget was submitted prior to that so so then we submitted the budget and there was negotiations happening and what the

salary that was settled on was I believe 115 and there's also CPI in that that will happen in January so what's we've left the 125 end we'd already submitted the budget because we know that we're going to need something you know to be able to cover cover that raise okay thank so so just to answer the question the way I understand it uh Mr President the only scenario where there was a outstanding position that wasn't

finalized yet in terms of an actual I'm not going to say some certain I'm going to say a final uh salary amount is this position okay the only other change position where there the only other changes is there may be a few people that have since gone to a different position for instance there's a a veteran's clerk who went to a position in the clerk's office but that doesn't change the position that

position will be hired for this is the only one where there was a sort of a vague number that was finalized after the budget was submitted that's that's exactly what I was trying to find out thank you very much for clarifying that appreciate it counc in seat 8 Council Samson um thank you council president I have more questions now about the purchasing um but I'm going to start with a comment uh because it's it angers

me when the comments that I hear sometimes so after uh counselor and seat 2 uh councelor Dion was had questions and rightfully so because we sat in that ordinance committee meeting and we asked these questions and I respect um you attorney akin to say look it was a mistake I respect that it was a mistake we asked questions we we come we come full circle but to insinuate that this Council doesn't understand purchasing

which is what you said well it's hard to understand purchasing is insulting because I'm going to tell you something this Council does understand for myself for the latter part of my career I've worked in federal grants I know all about purchasing and I can go across this line that people understand purchasing so we do understand the problem is we're not understanding your process and so we have questions and

we're accountable to the people that voted Us in so to install and to leave it there and just say well people don't understand you know you know purchasing and then if prices are high you just can't go with the lowest bid listen that's insulting and it insults all of us we understand and that's why we have the questions and it's a confusing process that came out of your department probably something that didn't go by

with the very expensive consultant that you continue to have which was the second question now that I have councelor reposa said um why doesn't the school department get their own purchaser and you said it's under one EIN and they can't so and I don't know the answer to this but can an EIN only have one person purchase for it I understand that it's the city and it's the school department and uh the

government here in this building but they can't have two people under one um Ein doing the puron or is it just one person so I didn't mean didn't say that to insult you in anyway or anybody in that Council because it's been there's a lot of to to purchasing and we've been working through that and as we've all been like educating ourselves and doing professional development with all of our

departments there's things that with people have been here for a long time that we're learning something new every day so that wasn't meant to insult anybody on this Council um what I meant by one is We Are One legal entity so all of that has to flow through one purchasing department so that you can do it as the aggregate so we can't so we can't Silo it and do it separately and

treat them like so treat totals like you know this so that's what I I meant by that so I think there was a misunderstanding and I apologize if that was the case because so I did misunderstand that so it does bring up a good point then I go back to what he's saying that maybe that's an idea because the purchasing for the school department is a massive undertaking I mean they they're they're purchasing all the time

so maybe since things have been getting wrong here and maybe that's something to look at maybe we look at having under one entity you have two people doing the purchasing is there someone that can do the and report to a you know another person it's a lot of work I mean time and time again we have had one person doing a purchas and there's been a lot of problems I think that Mr Atkins

brought up some really good ideas when he was saying it's better to get more people trained than not so when my colleague in seat 7 brings up an idea that says hey can someone from the school department also do purchasing and it's like oh well it's one one entity one EIN I feel like that's deflecting it's word salad and it's not quite the right answer because you can have more than one people under one EIN doing

purchasing correct we are so I I'm not sure if you I did say that we're we've talked to the school department and we're delegate we're going to be delegating everything under 50,000 to the school department to for for them to follow the laws and do the purchasing so I just want to get that that I for I I don't know the legal that the legal laws I am I'm certain and I and maybe my uh

colleague in seat one could know the answer can you have more than one person under an EIN can I ask that I don't know how to properly ask that chair through the chair through the council president can I ask Council can what is the the answer to that question can I take a shot first yes go ahead do you mind the answer is yes so you could have 10 20 people under 1A and do purch exactly

thank you here's the here's the problem yes is um you know if the schools you know because they let's say they're ordering t-shirts and they're ordering bags and they're ordering other things for different events yeah um and without talking to each other you know Morton may decide to go through a certain printer to do that and then dery may go to the same printer not even realize

then all of a sudden you add all those things up and you're way over the threshold and no one has done the process um it can just as easily happen in this in the in Government Center same building um and so that I think is is that concern about the one EA it's not just one purchaser it doesn't have to be like one person with all the power right

but doesn't it make sense now go back to your original idea it was a good idea I don't remember my or so long ago you have one person in the school department that does and I think that's what he said and it was kind of like brushed under the rug but one person not 20 people ordering t-shirts one person and one person here that talks to each other makes a lot of sense I'm just saying

maybe we should consider what he said I just feel like it was swept under the rug that those are my comments um I understand that you don't want everybody but um I will yield council president thank you thank you Council Council C1 Council kadim thank you Mr President so I'll answer my colleague's questions that she was asking me which is why I raised my hand so um and this is this is

straight from so the answer is yes you can we can absolutely delegate all the procurement to the school department and this and they would just have to figure out who their purchasing agent is going to be um and and it's just through the delegation Authority so chapter 30b so from the ig's 30b um manual there are two types of procurement centralized procurement and decentralized so a lot of communities

use centralized which means you have one purchasing agent which is what the city of floriva currently operates under a good majority of towns do decentralized so that means your Town Administrator tends to be your purchasing agent and then the superintendent is the purchasing agent for the schools so we can do exactly what it is that you're stating it just comes from the delegation so the city would have to

delegate all the authority over to the schools um and it clearly states here um let me just find it real quick so it says using using a centralized or decentralized procurement process is a policy decision for the jurisdiction this is not a chapter 30b requirement so the municipality determines whether or not they want to do decentralized or centralized that's pretty much what what

I want to clarify so if and and quite frankly I said this at the the ordinance meeting that the school department should be taking care of all of their purchasing requirements for all the projects obviously building School building projects that's that's a municipal uh project technically uh so that would still those types of projects would still stay on on the city side but outside of that all the procurement in

my mind should be over on the schools they have enough St staff to be able to monitor that for for us to have a department to monitor our department and then go on and monitor everything that they're doing in terms of you know purchasing of paper and you know you name it it just doesn't make any sense so from my standpoint i' I'd make sure it was decentralized so I guess I was

going to go and ask the question question um so just to become compliant what when you say compliant what are we not compliant with so um I wasn't prepared to get into like all the details uh I can come back to you with more of that because I think it's a little more than that because I I think I believe that there was also something else that the city adopted um around

purchasing but I will um can I come back to you tomorrow with that I don't want to that's fine that's why I asked about that's why I asked about uh General W chapter 41 SEC section 103 so that that establishes the purchasing department but I think we adopted something if I but I will let me just check on that so we've adopted that the city clerk has told me that's the general answer to

your question is how do we how how are we not compliant I would argue that 41103 does suggest there needs to be a central purchasing department through which everything flows subject of course to the decision to decentralize by having Department level purchasing trained people dealing with specs and doing all that stuff that's a nice idea it just doesn't bring it to its necessary legal conclusion uh which is

what I missed right so I I guess also to educate you know the council if if we did not have a purchasing agent and there was nobody on file and there was nobody in that position all that means is we still have to follow chapter 30b all the requirements procurement requirements with the exception that we cannot go out with rfps we can only do ifps which means very similar to an RFP

you put out a bid it's an invitation for for bids and you have to take the lowest bid the RFP allows you to bypass lowest bid and have alternative criteria that you're going to do in addition to to bids so that's that's the only different difference about having a procurement agent uh and not having a procurement agent so I was just trying to figure out in terms of the compliance what what we

were missing and and and listen I I got to be honest and I appreciate you know the statements that are coming up saying that you know you didn't recognize how detailed the procurement process was but um you know I understand my colleagues frustration because it was a lengthy discussion when we go went through the organizational flowchart making sure that we weren't adding positions going

back and forth to make sure that you know we understood the long-term plan for each department and I I think that was one of the requirements that we asked the administration to come back was you know take a look at this make sure that we're not missing anything come back to us because we didn't want to come back in in two three four years and say it's not working we want to move

in a different direction so I think that's part of the frustration that's coming up and I know a lot of the colleagues a lot of my colleagues that were on the ordinance committee uh voted for it even though they were not necessarily in favor of it right so trying to support the administration and then coming back this their frustration is what it is so with that a yield thank you councelor

coun yeah just on the purchasing so on the schools Department side when purchase order is put forward the signature on the bottom is the superintendent of schools correct but ultimately the person who purchases said item is not the superintendent here it comes back to City Hall everything flows through City Hall so and that's always something that kind of confus me that the fact that at the end of the day

everything falls flows through City Hall the school department doesn't have their own like we said purchaser but does city does the school department have their own HR department but does that flow through here too yeah but there staff does flow so part of their staff does flow through HR okay for all their health health insurance benefits insurance so so at the end of the day ultimately

onboarding them yeah yeah okay so that kind of wraps around my question okay thank you thank you coun any further questions okay move on to the next section purchasing department I'm sorry Mr President um if I so my colleague and C2 just asked about the appropriation so and I don't know that she really got the answer she was looking for so the appr ation orders that we have before us I'm sorry I'm trying to so page

five I think what she was looking to do if you look at the highlighted section up top it says be or ordered that the annual budget for the fiscal year 25 from various funds is $412,900 553 of which the amount of 40264 5533 I'm sorry I'm not sure what I said but you're right 33 um you said I believe I believe 33 I'm a little dyslexic don't want to get don't want to

get the click running and changing numbers on no no so then you have 402 645 738 to be raised um from ordinary Revenue Municipal receipts for appropriation as follows I I think what she's looking to see this like when you look at your Revenue she's trying to figure out what it is so mostly we're not including local receipts is that correct cuz we don't raise we're not including some local receipts and then

also your um from the cherry sheet the um assessments you have to take into account the assessments which we then subtract out of revenues I mean I I can probably break it down simpler and have something tomorrow to show you do you could you do that yeah okay because I I think she's just trying to tie it out to make sure that because when she comes out when she did her number it was like

$10 million off and I told her it was some local receipts but the local receipts are 22 million so you're not you must be capturing some or you either to your point netting the assessments yeah so we we'll get that okay thank you I Y thank you councelor there being no further question move on to the next one purchasing department or do you think we've already tackle that enough couny to I I

I just want to make one more comment so I looked at the FY 24 budget um the difference in the audit is pay the uh what the assistant assistant's pay was and actually those two numbers combined fall almost $5,000 short of the 115 salary so when there's an increase the funding isn't totally coming from those two positions can you say that again so you're saying both position f fy2 24 the audited salary was

125,000 so if you deduct the present salary y the difference was 32,300 right the assistant audit is um not annual but total salary was 77945 okay which totals 110,000 245 I see what you're saying so those don't pay that salary in total in yeah 90% I have no problem with that but once you work in your CPI which I don't think is going to be 9% um cuz to get from 115 and 125 we're

looking at a 9% CPI I don't think that's going to happen I could be wrong but I don't think it's going to be that high yeah um so yes so I guess the point of the matter is some of this appropriation or some of this salary has to come from somewhere else other than just that that's all I want to say thank you than you councelor you y celor yes I yeld it

Mr President can I just ask so this is just a general General conversation uh or discussion I should say so all the contracts do all the individual contracts have CPI or do some have the base salary plus just color adjustments um there's actually one more category so so there might be seven to nine contracts that have CPI um there are some that just traditionally are tied to the cola

adjustments based upon asme which is our biggest Union uh and then there's some that don't have any Cola or CPI indicated it's a conversation with the mayor uh per anom okay so you only established the first like first year of the contract then with renewals yeah thank you I Y thank you councel okay there be no further questions move on to the purchasing department I think we've added that

around we had any questions for that okay move on to the assesses councel in seat seven Council proposal come down

please good evening Mr Lan good evening good evening so my first question is found on page 116 um under management consulting I just want to clarify If the percentage in that column is an error because it says fy4 revised nothing fy2 proposed 65,000 so that's actually um so when you when you're doing like an Excel and you do the formula and it's you know over so now you're multiplying it's doing the

division over zero that's the problem okay I figured that was the case um on page 117 on the list of payroll details it list other Personnel at 6,264 can you explain what that is please so um because of the cyclical inspections we these all these employees are um 35 hours a week but we are not sure if we're going to also have to do some additional hours um to help us with getting all of that

done so we we budgeted a little bit of extra to cover if we have to have some people work you know just over 35 hours so so why isn't that an overtime line well so because we would we wouldn't keep it as overtime because it's 35 hours we wouldn't go over 40 hours a week okay so so just kind of we wouldn't be paying it we wouldn't be paying over

time yeah okay all right um and then I want to go where am I bear with me one second please oh um on page 116 under other purchase Services down 5% but can you ex can you break that down Mr Lane if possible show who all that is so um r RC is our personal property vendor um they go out and inspect the personal property so that they're roughly around 50

are all those done at this point the the plan was to reassess all the properties and where are we along that process so um so back in 2021 I believe the uh Council approved uh somewhere around $340,000 to reinspect 12,000 Parcels of the 21,000 Parcels the uh first question you had for the 65,000 that's a program I'm trying to implement where we can go out and do 2,000 inspections a year cyclical inspection

to try to keep up with um the the Department of Revenue requires us to reinspect every property once every 10 years so uh obviously the city's behind in that and so that's where I'm trying to get this inspection program set up so we we're on track okay so the answer is we've re reviewed 12,000 so far of the 21 okay and and the game plan in the next few

years is to complete the 21 to to do about 2,000 each year instead of trying to come up with a huge chunk of money again every five years to So currently I believe the Department of Revenue said we're at 67% compliance okay and when you these inspections plan the 2,000 per year is that strictly residential business or mix of both it's a mix of both it's a mix of uh residential commercial and exempt properties and how

are those prioritized uh by last inspection date okay so the oldest ones move to the top of the list that's correct fa um on computer services the Patriots property software correct me if I'm wrong but there's an up there was an update to that on the update was completed in February this year we're up and running um it's working great um I've actually already um opened up the 2026 rooll and we're able to uh put in

the splits and combines already for next year without having to hold the product until January okay that's all I have for now I yield thank you sir thank you councelor c seat five counc vice president pero yeah I just have a question uh Mr Lan on the auto allowance yes has that gone up I know gas is more expensive that I mean what what's the administration looking at for gas allowance for people

automobile allowance so it's a it's a flat fee um I believe it's $130 a month um myself n and um Doug rebello all three of us go out in the field and it's a flat fee I mean the city uh I believe what 21 miles um right but it's been the same and I I think it's sufficient hasn't been changed in a long time I just wondered I mean they're okay

with it I haven't heard any grumblings you know I'm sure you know we don't have City vehicles but I don't know that um having a city vehicle versus uh some Auto allowance what is the amount $120 a month 30 $130 a month correct thank you it's $1,560 a year but you know cars are expens I mean the wear and tear on vehicles and the price of gas I'm was just wondering all of our Auto

allowances you know it's all basically the same uh as the administration looked at um can they get gas less expensive so many gallons of gas or something so this this is kind of an ongoing conversation with the gas specifically um and one of the things that was a problem with letting people use you know get the gas from the pumps at DCM uh is that there was alleged misuse so we got this fob system uh but

then there was a sense that okay we had already stopped it we're just going to give people a gas allowance and then we added a wear and tear so we have a vehicle allowance this is not um uh this doesn't apply to the assessor um but with regard to DCM we have people getting a fuel allowance as well as a wear and tear on their vehicle uh there's even some indication that that

may not be quite sufficient so we're going to look at that possibly in this contract but probably in the next um so it's something we're looking at we have not yet gone to a mileage allowance yet where you just pay a fat a flat fee per mile um because we haven't we don't have any sample size of how many miles our inspectors for instance are traveling um we've asked for that so we can assess it

and actually get a sense of how many miles people really are our traveling uh and if we're either not paying enough or paying too much um that's something they're able to take it out on their taxes depending on how they file that you know they can have so much per a mile of if they keep a log of how much they're doing the Nelly and Doug go out pretty much all the time so Doug is out

every day Nell is out uh part part-time she's in the office part-time I go out you know doing inspections as well do they have any magnets at least on their cars when they're going out so people know and they can be identif at least when they're working yes not that they would wear them you know have them all the time they just say assessor's office okay all right thank you you C and you know uh

I'm sorry property um Patriots property how come it that went down about 5,000 it's not a revalue so um the software because it's a new software now it's it's a new software and we went to Cloud hosting we're not hosting inhouse any any longer and so I believe the server fee and stuff um so that is that is the accurate fee yeah because they did change the format of it because you kind of have to

open it up before you can put in street or owner or um whatever yes ma'am for my eyes it was no good I liked it the old way but I know change is there so I just have to zoom in on it but that's I know that it's a new a new kind of site when you go on on Patriots so and I just wondered why I went down but that the server that's

reason right thank you very much you're welcome with that I you Mr President thank you Council counc C2 Council DM good evening good evening only a couple of questions um so this past year or maybe we're still in it was the 10-year um assessment correct that was so every five years um so Department of Revenue does a full they call it a full or a cyclical every five years so that was 20 FY

2024 okay so the 10 year so the 10e Mark is so we have to revisit every parcel once in every every 10 years correct and you said you were 67% of according to Department of Revenue at at the um November of 2024 or November of 2023 we're at 67% obviously every year that passes that number gets worse you know because the numbers change so do they so do um so what's your timeline for

completing the the 33% that's left so uh they will I have to give them a report every 5 years I print out or it's a Excel spreadsheet of every parcel in the last visit date um so if we start this 2,000 every every year going forward we'll be on the cycle Department of Revenue is pretty lenient with that as long as you have a system in place um showing some type of you know

progress because how many Parcels do we have in this city it's 2,069 yeah so it actually takes you the 10 years to pretty pretty close to get not even quite keep up with it right we're adding Parcels every year with the splits and and and the and and and the number of parcels is just going to keep going up correct with the Waterfront development and the new housing stock and

um on page 117 other Personnel not a big dollar amount but it's $626 can you tell me what that is I we actually um that question was asked and so because of because of getting up to date with all the cyclicals we anticipate we may need to have some employees work some extra hours so we budgeted some extra funds to be able to cover that I that's so essentially it's overtime she did explain this answer

like 10 five minutes ago hear I missed it I'm sorry I was looking at something it happens I hear a lot of people re ask the same question more than once during conversations um okay so thank you with that I yield it's all I had thank you thanks Council C4 Council kby yes I would just add that this my op this is one of the most tight apartments in this building I appreciate

that and one of the most important everything starts in the assessor's office um so you you're probably happy that it's every five years instead of three that is correct yeah it used to be every three yes cuz it's a Monumental task if you think about it right it is we have the so many types of property there's so much property and and your office sets the uh the values on

property to send out the tax bills that is correct so when I looked at the gas item line item I mean come on and uh it's just um such an important department and it seems to me that you're doing a one Wonder ful job yeah it looks like you have a great staff and what are your directives um the Bureau of local assessment sends directives down if you if you can off

the top of your head not so so the biggest thing is um neighborhood red redelineation so just looking at the neighborhood um boundaries the um obviously the cyclical inspections and then they have a full a few that are the same bullet points every every five years which is making sure that we have income and expense uh information returned um meaning uh I think last year we had around

24% um which is very low um some of the communities will charge um the uh commercial and Industrial businesses if they don't return them here we do not um just to try to get that um number up same thing with forms of list that's one of the other uh standard um directives that they put out there um to make sure that you're getting enough forms of list returned okay so just a little bit Yumi

here um I recall it's very very important to have a very good relationship with the local agent as you know who's from the from the bureau yes to uh to get through the the Revel so just a piece of advice take them to makuchi all the time and that's from experience thanks y thank you thank you councel C C3 Council hot thank you Mr President good evening sir good evening uh just a quick

question um your your department uh do you know of any other departments in the Gateway cities throughout the Commonwealth uh that have do they have this kind this amount of people in your department do you know that or so typically they have a lot more um so uh city of New Bedford has I believe it's around 12 maybe um where we're six um New Bedford has I believe 29,000 Parcels so a few more

Parcels than we have um city of adbor maybe not a Gateway City but uh they don't do any inspections in house everything is subbed out there and they have five people in their house and they have 16,000 Parcels there um those are the ones that I'm familiar with So when you say at 67 compliant that's good for what you have yes are they those those particular cities that are our size are

they at a higher compliant rate or I'm not really sure I know like city of um New Bedford has they have some um field staff or had I'm not sure if they're replacing them as the the attrition um and I know they're using Patriot I believe to do some field inspections there as well um dart's using Vision um so I'm not sure what compliance the other cities and towns are and how many

folks do you have that go out in the field uh so myself but I'm not out uh every day um I have one gentleman that's out every day and then Nell is out part-time and say how about New Bedford or LOL or ad so adbor has no staff that that goes out they sub everything out to vendors okay I'm not sure what New Bedford has left as far as staff I know

there they had uh a pretty decent field staff previously but my understanding is they're not replacing the people as they leaving okay but I'm just like you got to assume that if they have 12 you've got or what was what did Bedford have I think they have about 12 people in their office 12 you got to assume that they have more people out in the field right okay that is correct I'm that's that's

the only first thing that just like when I looked at the department and what you do um and I'm kind of just got back on the council and um I know what the past assessors did uh they've got a Monumental like Council Kilby said a Monumental job so I don't know maybe maybe not this year but maybe next year recommend that you if we can get more people in there for you so I yield with

that thank you thank you councelor any further questions thank you okay seeing none we move on good day thank you thanks have a great night to the auditor's office

welcome again if you can't say your name and what office you would just so the people home know who we're talking to Sure Cedric Souza City auditor thank you Council t7 Council Corone thank you hi Cedric hi Andrew one quick question for you um page 121 other purchase Services down $10,000 yep um so obviously the description includes consulting which was uh where Ed was being paid out of uh obviously

with timing and Emily coming on WE decreased that okay um by the 10 grand okay so re so really it's more tied to the Consulting piece rather than the professional development piece that is also a piece but majority of it was was EDS yeah okay excellent thank you sir I Yi Sant did you say that's what PID Ed I Capon salary is that so we were paying um Ed I capony out of that line but

we're also we have um other like Clift and Larson that's done some training and professional development so we we are utilizing that line to do professional development um across the staff in the auditor's office and as well as we've been making some modifications with munus that we've had um we've had to use other Consultants that are can help us with munus because we've had quite a few

issues with munus lately unfortunately can can I just ask one question while we're on I like aony what does he do four hours a week I've never heard of anybody working four hours a week like what is he what do when he comes in the building what does who does he go see who dides he talk to so at ion has um he has worked with um giving us helping like with some strategic some um

professional development within the auditor's office I mean so who does he work with is it any individuals he works he works with the um he's been working the majority in the auditor's office but he works amongst treasurers and collectors um so you say majority is that like two hours with someone because that's half of what he spends there four hours a week so again like it was we had

it was two days a week then it came one day a week I mean we now that Emily's on board I mean I don't see Ed coming in like the next couple weeks at all so get rid of him them is he all done or is he not going to be done we're gonna be coming here next year he's working two hours no I mean no I mean I don't I see

Ed being phased out over the next like month and the only reason I want to say this is because in 2012 we hired Mr Nunes and I capony told us back then we had David grab Sean can tell you and then we had a major problem getting our tax bills out we couldn't do it so we brought in I capon is a consultant and then he said to us well

you know you have to hire someone you have to hire this guy his recommendation was Mr noon bring in Mr Nunes I want to go home I don't want to work in this building anymore I'm I'll sit I want to retire that was over 12 years ago and he's been here ever since and we did what he wanted we hired the guy he wanted us to hire correct correct me I'm

wrong counc been you were there and I've been hearing every single budget hearing at I Capon at I Capon I Capon and he doesn't want to be here and Council seat Sam SE C Sam is right we hear it all the time but yet he's always here his numbers go down but I know there his pay going up but his hours go down because he's making a lot of money it's just

let's just finish with this and if we have to hire someone else to train our people and work with us let's do it but I I just know four hours a week is kind of it's kind of crazy to me I just want to know what he's doing so yeah I mean Ed had actually left for several years and was brought back by this Administration um it was again there was like some

strategic things there's been some more of like coaching like you know working with some of our younger staff I mean you know Ed has a lot of experience is well respected around the state um but again you know Ed's been around a long time and he I think he doesn't really he wants to retire and we were for I mean I'm I think he's retired I think he's retired for the last 12 years

he just keeps working here he wants to retire I want that job I want to retired too I'm not going to work four hours a week I can tell you that it's crazy I never seen anything like it in my life all right um need I regress C me no C 5 C pero me well Ed I Capon came I think at the recommendation of Fernando Garcia true that's how we got

him here initially explained it yeah a question that I had this financial compliance manager to be announced are we hiring that person we did hire her we did we we hired her so she we're not doing the assistant auditor we're not so that should be bumped up so when it says vacant assistant City auditor we should just like scratch that we don't so I just so in that ordinance meeting

it was asked to present you just want to leave it there I I was asked to leave it there and show that we didn't fund it so that's what I did oh okay I that was the only question I had like that's still in the budget why with nothing but they you were told to put that in so that you could show that we're not hiring anything okay makes sense to me point of information because

it's still in orance right right I think I think that was the idea we didn't want to suggest the position was gone because it is still an ordinance well you hate to take it out of ordinance because then if you decide oh yeah we really need this position too never comes back so maybe you should put in that we take that out of ordinance so that we know that you not going to say

that we need them later on what if um that's about it the only question I have thank you so much Cedric how you doing up there Cedric you like it not yeah good good do you counselor does um Cedric have a CPI or anything is it no you don't so your position is just the limit of whatever is in ordinance it's not a contract position change to a contract yeah um

his position is typically um gone with uh what asks me yes so that's so that's what's been adjusted into his so be the CPI with ask me whatever they get whatever they get yeah okay just because I didn't see anything there I wasn't sure with that I yeld thank you very much Mr President c c Samson um so I just I have a a a statement and then a question um Cedric

you were new to this position we've been told many times that you were new and you were um young to the position but I hear great things out of that office your staff likes you you've done a great job you're doing well and I think it was a great fit um with that being said you know that I was um very vocal about this position although I want to say Emily

who is up here is uh very very knowledgeable extremely qualified I grateful that she's here how are you finding that position to be a fit you know are you missing that well you never had the assistant auditor because you were that person so then you move up I don't think salary moved up um but you moved up um and you're doing a a fantastic job but this person is it is

she helpful to you have you found that position yeah she's been a great help uh great addition to the team and I uh enjoy working with her okay um I think that's all I have to say with that I yield thank thank you any further questions for the auditor's office job thank you thank you very much coming thank you next we move on to analysis and compliance what did he say did we have any

question welcome welcome state your name and what department you just for the record so people know who you are um my name is Emily Ary I'm with Finance financial analyst and compliance manager hi Em hi hi Emily are there any questions council's going to be very kind to her today that's nice no F no questions just a comment congratulations thank you on your pending marriage thank you it's

been a great two weeks being here so happy to be a part of the team excellent well welcome aboard if there's any you think the council should know let us know Council see to you have your hand up yeah I just want to say that um I'm very impressed that you have been here even when you didn't have to be here so you could observe and listen and uh hopefully that's going to help you in

your uh Future Days with us it will thank you time happy to be here I only live five minutes away so it's no problem she said she was going to keep up with Helen reg going and be here till she's 90 that's what she told me earlier today listen I wouldn't mind a for River resident Linda yes I'm happy right myice all right there be no questions thank you very much for coming I love shoes by

the way Seth remember when we were that nice to you yeah that one day yes okay as long as we we're identifying that one day I do remember that I think about it a lot don't let's remind everyone Seth used to live five minutes away he moved to another state so might be ready for that just joking just kidding he doesn't live in another state we're gonna have uh collector's office come down next

if you could just state your name again please I know someone might have just tuned in at home and want to know who we're talking to uh Ian shackney treasure collector thank you Ian conent seat seven thank you Mr President I in again uh two questions first is on page 126 on the advertising line item yes and it's more of a curiosity question so I understand that the the cost can be

recoverable yes and I noticed that the Harold News has told us that it's going to cost more so is it a legal requirement that it goes in the newspaper yes yep we have to before we can put um a property in tax title yeah we have to um advertise that in a local newspaper so in 2024 we still relying on the paper yes that's a state law wow that's great quick excuse me for one

second C you do the online version or both the paper and the online yeah yeah we can we put it online too but it's mostly just the paper and um okay that has a cost and the cost of the ad is divided by the it's the cost of the ad divided by the number of parcels in the ad and that's how we we take that number and add it to the tax title balance so

when we get paid off on tax title we're also getting paid off for the ad gotcha so to Clara because I don't know the state law so at minimum it has to be in the newspaper but you guys put it online too yeah just well the newspaper good job well I know that but I just I'm was curious okay but it's recoverable we also we also the um a copy goes to the

library yep it's in the library it's downstairs it's right in the hallway we put it everywhere we can clerk's office City's office City's website awesome cool uh the second question I had was how many takings took place last year um I believe it was about 142 or 140 and change 140ish yeah all right hey Council would you allow um Mr sha need to describe what a taking is just for anybody who's listening because

it sounds like a huge thing and great idea yes please if you could us so it's not um it's not like we're taking your property right away it's an old term going back a very very long time but it's basically just perfecting the lean that is pre-existing on the property we record an instrument of taking at the registry of deeds and now that when anyone does a title search and they're

about to sell the property they realize that we're owed money and we get paid off um at a closing or um you know hopefully before that as well um but we try to keep that number because it is um we try to keep that number as low as possible obviously we want everyone to pay on time or before they go into tax title so tax taking is just the process

of entering tax title putting a lean on the property uh to protect the amount of money that's owed to us and it must be a funny thing to budget because I can imagine it doesn't happen within a budget season for a say well yeah it'll be we'll be paying these amounts for the in fy2 for the delinquent FY 24 taxpayers yeah okay so please catch up a little bit so we yeah we we work all

summer at getting that number as low as possible we make phone calls um we try to reach out to everyone we can if we get mail return we try to find a new address send it back out uh we send letters we send a notice before they're advertised that hey this is about to happen then we advertise um and then after they go into tax tile we send another letter we're sending demands we're trying to

communicate as as best we can to make sure that this doesn't happen to people here and are all those costs part of that process recoverable yes yeah I mean the office time that we're using not I mean that's pretty much just us but um anything that we add any type of legal fee that we add on um that we get back once it's paid like for example you mentioned when mail is returned and

trying to find a new address you have to do a search for that and that's usually a legal thing they have to do well it's it's sort of a best practice that we found we send say we send out a notice but because of the timing issue it's a new owner um but we mailed it to the Old owner then the mail comes back we go on the Assessor's atabase we notice hey

this actually has been sold so we take the same letter just stick in a new envelope put the new owner's name on it and send it back out that way they're not caught off guard when you know they're in the paper or if there's extra fees added or we try to we do our best to make sure it doesn't get that far I have to say that the collector's office

um this is something that I know a lot of collector's offices don't do around the state but they actually call as many people as they can because some people I mean some things happened and they were not you know they forgot about it or whatever but we've actually been able to um help bring people in and you know get them to pay and a lot of that they they spend a

lot of time like on making phone calls to taxpayers that are delinquent awesome that's all I have thank you a thank you councelor counc SE five uh I'm sorry Council eight Council Simpson I just have a a quick question Ian um the summer hours there was a reduction and I just I just don't understand why 47% for what what's oh we had a um a person who did get summer hours is no longer there

so so they know what okay is that like a thing of the past summer hours so that was um an old I don't know what year the contract was but there was some employees that were offered summer hours so they could either work the hours and get the extra money or they could take I uh how many hours off during the summer and most of those employees are either moved on to other positions that are no

longer Union positions or they not working for the city anymore nice so that's slowly dwindling out nice well that's a good reduction um and I just want to uh my comment is you're new to the position you're doing a great job and we're fortunate to have you so thank you very much I appreciate it appreciate it you councelor I yeld sorry CC president just want make sure Council and to counc Dion good evening um the

process you were just explaining um do you have a schedule as to what do you have specific months that you advertise or schedule for your adver generally um so fiscal year final payment is due May 1st after that we give it a couple weeks just for catchup and mail and everything and then we send out a demand notice it's 10 it lets people know that they still owe the money um so that's mid

miday um in people that are already in tax title we do what's called a subsequent certification so they owe for a year from like say they owe 2023 and they also haven't paid 2024 so we lump that into the tax title balance uh mid June after the the demand is passed du itself then um early July we're going to send um a letter saying hey you still owe it we're about to advertise you um

and then in August we're going to put the ad out and then in September we're going to do the tax taking MH and how many payment plans do you have at this time right now we probably are in the 20s active is that average do you think or has it improved over the years or you we've got a lot of um decent payoffs lately and um you know as we get a lot

in the beginning of the new fiscal year after that taking has occurred and we send out the notice and then by this time um they're either you know they either completed them or theyve defaulted them um and then we're going to do a new taking and we start the whole process over so we they go for they're usually about a year long um that's usually what they are so some

come off some come on in the 20s usually all right thank you with that I yield thank you councelor counselor nc5 councelor yeah um through the president to the city clerk we had to do some advertising too for different things in the clerk's office yes but wasn't there talk about the legislature changing that yes has that has anything happened probably not for the in this case because they're different but for

us yes because honestly people aren't getting the newspaper like they used to and if you're advertising with the newspaper the whole newspaper goes online anyway so it should be and we the same to also host it on our website as well but that might be something to talk to the state delegation about yeah no they it's definitely been discussed many times any news on it not as of today no no but

they are looking at that yeah people have definitely are aware that the newspaper is not as yeah reviewed as it used to be may I clarify maybe may I clarify if I'm not I might be correct I hope but um the court issues a citation that has a directive of what has to be unless I'm missing your point I'm sorry well just Mass General law says that in order to put someone in tax

title it's one of the steps that we have to take if we get to the point where follow the we're going to do a foreclosure and because you know so much time has passed and they owe so much money and nothing's being done and we have to do a foreclosure if we didn't check that box then we can't do it we got to take it out of tax it'll start all over lose all the interest it's

almost like in Probate Court you've got to put something in the paper to do whatever all those legal ad but I'm saying you know the world changes things change and for it to go up about you know $5,000 um and I don't think you're getting the the readership that you would I've just wondered if the state was looking at that and you know you go to these uh uh Treasurer collected meetings are other communities yeah I

think and especially in some other towns we have our we're lucky enough to have our own newspapers some towns don't and they have to put in a newspaper that could be you know a half hour away from the location that they're in but we just have to follow Master General law and check the box all right I think that's I mean I don't have any problem your um Department seems to be running well um

everybody's pretty calm in your department which is a good thing you need but did you lose someone to the clerk we've had some turnover but we're right but is there a vacancy now in your department because someone moved over to the clerk's side not for that purpose no there's none no we filled that vacancy but we actually have somebody that's going to be moving from collectors over

to treasurers so we will have a we will have a vacancy again in collectors okay so the names that are in here are the people that you have no one of them is now working yes you put somebody else in yes and there and they would be at the same pay cuz cuz I don't see longevity so they would be at the same pay yeah okay just one and you've already filled that

position we did we filled that one and it's unfortunately that's um that's a hard position to people don't always stay long term you know they come in and they we teach them and then they move on to another department where they're making more money story of our lives in for River they move on to make more money in the same building in a different department I mean I look here and I see the assistant

collector and assistant collectors all over make a lot more than that so should consider when people are good employees to look at that with that I Y thank you Mr pres to council yeah what's the difference in the interest rate um between if when somebody's versus somebody's paying their taxes late versus once they're in the um so um before you're in so the day you're late in when you're it's a

regular real estate tax bill it's 14% when we put it into tax SLE it it goes to 16% 162% difference and I have another question um we've been geez I'm not even sure how many years now a few years now I believe that Bost bank has been accepting um payments on behalf of the city has um have you had a reduction in um Staffing because of that has that had

has that had on us so the impact is that it's the line at the at the window has been reduced but it's not like they're entering those payments into munus we still we get a report every day of all the payments that they took we have to manually enter them um also it's it's freed up the staff in certain periods of time to do the those other things like I was talking about like make those phone

calls we turn into a phone bank it's extremely effective and we reach out as much as we can so it's not so much and the phones don't stop Thea EMS don't stop um but what BOS has definitely helped with is the actual human being in front of us which there's still plenty coming in but that's been the effect of that okay thank you that I yield thank you councelor there be enough forther

questions thank you on to thank you I guess that that would cover treasure as well correct City's lucky to have you so we'll go to debt services

C C7 can you just give us a rundown of um what has turned over from short term to long term so as of um right now we still have um about 13.7 in short-term bands outstanding that we will be then looking to long term over the next um couple years we won't know that exact number because some of that's the last piece of the dery debt that um and they're in the

middle of doing that close out final audit of that and then once we know what our actual last reimbursement from msba and that's when we know what we have left to long term of that piece and um as you can see like we have we've stayed pretty level this year going into 25 but again that will that's without um us long- terming the short-term piece because then that will then change this

amortization schedule again and again it's we do have a lot of outstanding debt but we're trying to um not do borrowings right now and like get us to be like stable where we can start getting some cash flow room there um cuz ideally we wouldn't want you know there used to be an old policy of trying to not have more than 10 million yeah that was actually my next question what

what's kind of the the goal you're looking to have well I mean that's that would be a nice goal to be under 10 million zero but you know I mean we when when I um you know when Ian became the treasurer and and I was coming in um I think there was about 42 million that we had to long term over the last two years so okay thank you I yield thank you

councelor any other Debt Service questions Ian thank you very much for coming down thank you Bridget thank you all for coming down a motion motion to Mr counc C3 counc yeah I just wanted to let I told you already but uh tomorrow tomorrow I'm not going to be able to attend my son's graduation from Diamond so congratulations congratulations you are going to attend your son's graduation you're not going to attend

the abely just want to make sure your not to attend my son's graduation thank you some things are more important motion toour motion to a Jour has been made a second second second all in favor any opposed city council fin now Jour see everybody tomorrow night over heyyy

hey hey hey hey heyy