7.22.25 FRSC Policy Subcommittee

Good afternoon. Uh today is the opening of the meeting uh today, July 22nd for the policy subcommittee for the uh Fall River School Committee. And uh for item number one, it's a roll call. Deborah, Mr. Das here, Mr. Corey here, Miss Pereira here.

Item number two is salute to the flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Item number three, open meeting law.

Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of his public meeting of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Uh for item number two, citizens input.

Deborah, is there any citizens input at this time?

There is.

Okay.

Do you want to read off the names on the list?

Okay. So, first by one, one by one is from Taylor Perry.

Okay.

105 Aine Street, Fall River.

Good evening. I'd like to express my strong support for allowing all school committee members to attend and participate in any and all school committee subcommittee meetings. They should choose to do so. Transparency and open communication are essential to good governance. When more members are present during subcommittee discussion, it allows for important questions to be asked early and ensures that a wider

range of perspectives are considered before decisions are finalized. Limiting participation feels like a step in the wrong direction. It it risks leaving out voices that were elected to represent the community and it reduces the opportunity for meaningful collaborationcl. We should be working toward more inclusion and openness, not less. Thank you for your time and consideration. Taylor Perry, 105 Street.

Number two, David Aloea, 210 Roberson Street, Fall River.

Today, I'm writing to ask, are we really being serious right now? This body is really trying to take away the rights from the people. no member of the school committee is not to tell any member that they can can and can't do. Remind you guys, you are elected by the people. So all of you have the same power. So I expect all school committee members to attend any subcommittees and to be heard

as you are not obligated to, but don't censor ones that do want to be engaged.

But know they are not there to be a voting member. I don't care if that member can speak at at the full body or not. What should be on the agenda is when a school committee member walks off on meeting on walks off on the meeting, which is a disservice to this school district or a member missing a meeting to go to a courthouse to see Karen Reed case. That's what should be on the

agenda to put a no confidence in that matter. So spare me the politics in this policy and just vote this down. Thank you. David Al number three, Jeffrey Godro, 229 Palmer Street, Fall River.

Good afternoon. I am writing to express my fierce opposition and deep frustration for the proposed policy to limit school committee members from participating at subcommittee meetings.

We are trying to fix a policy that hasn't caused any issue and is not broken. This is being done because Mr.

Das said he would go go attend a meeting. This policy change is coming from the vice chair who has left meetings early, who has either not attended meetings to attend Karen retry trials, or I believe has had meetings canled for other other events. I've even seen Colin ask questions at other meetings and it was sparingly and the meetings were peaceful. The meeting with Kevin and Bobby where Colin attended and

Meanie left were peaceful and meetings were peaceful because Kevin knows how to run a meeting. I thought subcommittees were I thought subcommittees are supposed to break down on the agenda item and ask most of the questions. It would mean less questions at a regular meeting where the committee of four likes to complain and want to end early. Colin Dice is persistent and he goes after an

issue and will get his questions answered. He is like a bulldog when it comes to holding the administration accountable. Please let the bulldog continue his work and ask questions because the committee of four allows the superintendent to do whatever she wants.

Then bow down to Paul Kugan like they are entranced.

It's like Paul Kugan controls them with a remote or maybe he just gives their family or friends a job. So, bulldog Colin, keep asking your questions.

Hopefully, upholding your fiduciary responsibility will rub off on your fellow committee members. And Tracy Cur, thank you.

Number four, Gabriel Amarol, 901 Indian Town Road, Fall River. To our great school committee members, I Gabriel Boomer Amaril of 901 Indian Town Road Fall River believe all members should be able to represent their constituents in any capacity to include outside committee subcommittee meetings. This way all members can learn or bring outside ideas to serve to better serve the city of Fall River as you are all

elected to do so to do the best of your abilities. I don't understand why we try to divide instead of work together. Despite your difference opinions and views on personal and political preferences, you are elected to work together in the best interests of the community, more importantly for our children. Put aside the petty tip fort arguments and focus on the goal to make Fall River a top

tier school system. Once again, if keeping meetings private or not working with other committee members because you don't like them is more important than the job at hand, then maybe it is best to move on and allow people who genuinely care about what's best for our children to take your seat and accomplish the goal set forth of our schools. We are currently ranked 320 out of 356 among school districts and we are

concerned about who sits in meetings.

This behavior is childish and petty. We deserve better and we will demand better from our officials. Very respectfully, Gabriel Boomer.

Next, Nelson Vasquez, 210 Sunset Hill, Fall River.

Good afternoon. I wish to go on the record as a citizen of this committee of this community and I fully support the continuence for school committee members to attend and participate in any subcommittee meeting. Subcommittees are where items are dissected and where the meat of the conversations take place.

This precedent and policy has existed for many years as we know. Why do we want to stop this policy now? We should always encourage conversations and debate on those items. When signing up for this job, you know, there will be the possibility for late meetings from time to time. The workplace is never set in stone no matter what kind of occupation you undertake. Adapting to changes from within is paramount for

elected officials and voters deserve that from all elected officials. Thank you for taking the time to read my email. Nelson Vass 210 Sunset Hill.

Next, Colin Das, 560 Ray Street, Fall River.

Good afternoon. For policymaking purposes, I wish to inform the subcommittee about a situation I believe needs immediate action. I plan on making a similar input to the full committee for policy enforcement. It has come to my attention that there was a claim involving an employee teacher relationship within the district. I have reason to believe that this claim was not properly investigated. I back up

this reason to believe it wasn't properly investigated because one, the report itself, a claim of proportionate magnitude, is only one page long.

The administration confirmed the existence of the claim and only July 3rd, 2025 at 3:28 p.m. in a correspondence from Deb Cabal, the district stated that quote unquote, the public interest in the disclosure of the records related to claims of sexual misconduct does not substantially outweighs the privacy interest of the staff member.

Why is it we are why is it we as a committee are entrusted with sensitive information in financial batches we sign on sign off on or with executive session information yet with this particular matter we receive nothing. I believe for policy purposes it is important to note that there is a difference between acting on personal matter matters which is a responsibility of the superintendent whoever that is and being

notified of personnel matters to verify the actions of the superintendent whoever that is to make sure they didn't make an illegal decision. Past superintendent, good and bad, have notified the committee in proper channels the disposition of personnel matters. That practice seemed to have ended. I wonder why. I wonder who cough cough Kugan directed the administration to stop notification

practices. If the answer is well there well there are privacy concerns then what gives the administration the right to review such information the administration is also invading on privacy with the argument then why are why do we receive information on executive session why do we sign off on documents with private information on them we as the school committee are part of the district

inconsistent applications of policies and laws leads to mistrust. There are also members of the committee who have received other personnel information on staff or student information from the administration prior and that is confirmed and that is a confirmed fact.

I am sure some will do this day because the mayor and Mr. Corey seem to know about the work conduct of Kevin Galloway.

Once again, inconsistent applications of policies and laws leads to mistrust. Mis mislications of policies and laws do the same thing. Superintendent contract states the superintendent shall serve as executive officer of the committee. It is also important to note as a general statement not directed towards anyone.

If someone were to withhold information from their bosses or engages in subordination, that person would be fired on the spot. It is time for the committee, actually, that's not fair for the entire committee. It is time for four certain members of the committee to stop being laxy daisy, to stop blindly supporting the administration, and to for once conduct some oversight. My last

question without even asking for names.

I asked prior from the administration prior if there was a confirmed student teacher relationship that was brought to the ministr the administration's attention by Miss La Laravey.

Superintendent Curley without giving names I ask you once again from the incident brought to the district's attention by Miss Laravey was there a student teacher relationship? If yes, was that incident referred to police? If no, how do you know? What did the investigation entail? Because it couldn't have entailed much in a one-page report. We do we need to do things the we need to do the right

things in as a district. This regards, I just have one comment.

I've got one more.

Oh, you do? Sorry.

No, no, no. Go for it. That's okay. I didn't mean to interrupt. I thought you were done.

Amy Blanchett, 7242nd Street.

Dear school committee chair, superintendent, city clerk, as a concerned and engaged resident of Fall River, I am writing to express my strong belief in the importance of transparency accountability and informed leadership within our school system. Our school committee members were elected by the community to represent our voices and advocate for the best interests of our students, educators, and families. In order to

fulfill that role effectively, it is essential that they be granted full access to all relevant meetings, including subcommittees, working groups, and any other discussions where decisions or policy planning may occur. Limiting their access or involvement in these meetings restricts their ability to understand the full scope of what is happening in our schools. Without the opportunity to

be present, ask questions, or observe discussions, it becomes difficult, if not impossible, for committee members to make informed decisions or fulfill their responsibilities to the public. Our schools and students deserve leadership that is acknowledgeable and fully engaged. I urge the committee and school administration to ensure that all elected members have open access to meetings and information that impacts

our district. Thank you for your time and attention to this matter. I appreciate your dedication to our schools and trust that you will take this input into serious consideration.

Amy Blanchard, thank you Deborah. Appreciate that.

Miss Pereira, thank you. Um, one thing first, just point of clarification um, for the people at home. I think it's important when I don't have colleagues here um, that we make sure we respect the ones that on here. So, a few people mentioned Miss Laravey um and her not being able to make the meeting due to um being at the Karen retrial. So, let me make this very clear. She had the day off for her

birthday. She had previous plans for dinner with her parents and her friends.

We were given four dates by Deb for the Fall River, you know, for this particular meeting. Some were able to go to three, some were able to go to two.

Miss Laravee said she could attend all three except that one. Unfortunately, the meeting had to be had and that was the only one we could have a consensus.

So, because of that, she missed the meeting, not because she didn't want to be there, because she had previous engagements for her birthday. And although this is a job, we also are entitled our personal life. And I think most of the people that commented that probably knew that, but I just want to make sure the rest of the people listening do. And the last thing I have to say to my colleague over here is that

there is no remote control that controls me. There just isn't. I don't. Yes. The mayor, you or Kevin. I do what I want to do. And what I suggest is before you speak that way about me again, what I'd like you to do is your homework. Do the research on my voting record and then come back to me and tell me I vote with the mayor every time. With that, I

yield. And that's all I'm going to say.

Thank you.

Yes. If I can just u briefly respond.

The remote control comment wasn't made by myself.

I understand. However, as I said in my remarks, I remar in my remarks, I personally feel that four members of this committee, again, I have respect for you, Mr. Cory. I have respect for you, Miss Larby. However, it's I'm sorry.

That's all right.

Um, see, there's a difference, the two of us.

No, because you just said Miss Larby.

No, it was a mistake. No big deal. Um, I do believe that you would often times vote in lock step with the mayor and don't uphold your responsibility to hold the administration accountable. That's my opinion and I think that's based off the voting record over the last year, last few years and I stand by those comments.

I'd ask you to go back and look at my voting record, but fair enough.

Uh, if I may respond, uh, Mr. Guys, just uh to remind the the public, I have a career involved in the Fall River public schools. Uh dedicated um I did so much volunteer work in my in my time. I don't vote in lock step with anybody. I never did. I've always been an independent voice, an independent mind, a strong independent mind, and um with a knowledge of the workings and the mechanics of the Fall River School

District, I vote according to what I've known for the past 40 years as a career educator.

Uh, and to have my name singled out in any one of these letters for something that I didn't even recognize is really heenous to me. And this sounds more like uh rhetorical uh there was more rhetoric in these comments than there were any factual information. And that's where I'll close my comments. Thank you. Let's start the meeting and go to agenda item number one.

uh for discussion um discussion and vote to refer the revised walkers and writers policy.

So we have um we're suggesting some revisions to the walkers and writers policy. Um, for the most part we're talking about just language cleanup and some changes that just reflect practice or more accurately reflect practice in the district. So, previously we had come um forward requesting some language changes and the attempt at that point was just to change the language to reflect um

current ridership on our buses. that was not some those revisions were not um you know were not accepted. They weren't approved. These are really just language changes that have nothing to do with the number of riders or anything like that or who has access to ride um ridership.

Um you can see in the copy that has some green the green um it offers it shows like crossed out what the old language was, what the new language is. So, we're looking um for language that used to just say, you know, students who live one or more miles from the neighborhood schools, it's one or more miles from the neighborhood or assigned schools. And we wanted to make sure that it was

understood that if for some reason there was a student who lives near a school that is full and we assign them across the city that that student has access to transportation.

So, it's not just about living a mile or more from your neighborhood. it's your neighborhood in every any school to which we assign you. Um there's a disclaimer in there that if you get assigned to a new school as part of a request that you've made, then you wouldn't be you know that you wouldn't necessarily be um transported.

And then um in the middle there's some language here. Transportation requests must be made annually by families.

Following a request, families will be contacted in August prior to the start of the school year to confirm eligibility and provide bus routes and approximate pickup drop off times to eligible students. That is the current practice.

And then there was language removed.

It's actually shown that it was removed twice because initially when we were doing our draft, we were just going to move the language. So it got moved from being like the third sentence down to being like the fifth um you know in the fifth paragraph there. In the end, we ended up deleting both of them. So, that's why it shows up deleted twice.

Um, and we did that because it it's not necessary because if we have students who are attending, there are two things that happen. If you're a student attending a special program, it's usually because that is um it's either going to be an ESL program or a special education program.

Yeah.

ESL um program students, we will transport if it's without the, you know, beyond the mile, right? Or beyond the mile and a half if it's secondary. for a special education um program students, we would transport a student if it's not their neighborhood school, even if they live under a mile from the school, we would still transport them. So, there was um saying that we would that we would do it if

you're attending outside your residential school area. The language didn't quite make sense and we took that out. Um the we changed um some of the language that says spec uh used to say if you needed different transportation we changed the word to specialized transportation. Um and I don't remember what the I don't know why um I don't know where that the policy came from. Maybe that's not supposed to be

green, but um I don't know what the original language was. But those are the language changes that we are suggest suggesting there. There's not a substantive change in terms of how we do business. It's just making things clearer to families.

Yes.

Thank you. Um few questions and concerns. So my prior comments, I'm going to have some questions on this. Um I believe you noted that it's um past practice to um a few things I guess of past practice one to for the hard I'll start with the hardship waiverss. So but I think that's in the um okay maybe it is here but go ahead. Um, I know you answered it in um in an email, but in

the policy um I don't see anything in regards to um hardship um noted in here, and I believe it should. Could you just explain um the hardship waiver program or the practice in terms of so we on occasion we do have um students who maybe live within the say mile and a half for a middle school and parents uh will request transportation despite the fact that they are um that they live technically

within walking distance. And we sometimes in depending there they show a hardship. It might be that um parents are I don't know they might be disabled or for some other reason can't the student might not be able to walk might suffer from some condition that wouldn't automatically um make them eligible for transportation in that way but we understand the need and um and we will grant a a hardship neighbor. I

guess the point I'm trying to make is with that and the decisions are subjective or is there an objective like criteria we're make we're looking at to decide if a student meets that hardship criteria or not.

Um so we don't have like if you're asking if there's like this existing policy around it in writing we don't have something like that and they are generally like few and far between. It's not like we have PE, it's not like transfer requests um where we're dealing with a whole bunch of them all summer and we really need to have this protocol in place where because if we say yes to

one and no to another in when people make the requests um they really are generally for very significant levels of need um and that we do grant them but no we don't have something in writing. I personally believe that should be in writing within the policy. The walker and riders has to do with transportation. I think it just um makes sense to include that language within this policy and just having just some

criteria so it's not selective. So you know people can individuals can understand when they're applying for a hardship criter hardship plan that they know what that is. Um secondly on um I'm just trying to understand how this could affect um and I asked this in the question is um transfer students if spec specifically if students come in mid mid year and um I know you answered that if a

student comes in mid year and they meet all the other criteria they would be eligible for transportation but I'm just concerned the language doesn't really reflect that and being noted at the bottom of this um of the policy it says note that students are not eligible for transportation for school assignments that come as a result of transfer requests. Um, so if a transfer student, if a student comes in from out of

district to come in mid year, they're eligible besides the fact that they're transferring in. Are they noted as a transfer?

Oh, no. I think there maybe we need to clean up the language. We're talking about an in district transfer. I live next door to a school, but I want to go to the one across town. It's not students transferring in from a neighboring town or anything like that.

Those students move in, they're in a neighborhood. If they live, if there's room in their neighborhood school, they go to their neighborhood school. If there was room somewhere else and we said we have to assign you to that other school, we would transport. If someone moves in and they don't want to go to the school in their neighborhood and they request to go to school, that's a transfer request. That's what I'm

referring to here. They would have to transport themselves.

And um and just one more point on the language as well where I just got a little bit confused reading it. Um transfer transportation requests must be made annually by families. Um is there a specific date that needs to be made by like a time period? Because I'm just trying to make the example a student comes in December.

You're you're saying they're automatically eligible. However, says in the automatically eligible if they're they could we have students who are eligible who would prefer not to take the bus. So they but if you want to take the bus you can you can say like hey you raise your hand you say I want to take the I want to take the bus then we will send that information out. I think the um this is

what I explained to you via email when you asked the the part about the uh families being contacted in August is because obviously the vast majority of students who receive transportation they are students who start the year with us. So, um, and we we are just trying to assure people we're going to contact you in August, August before the school year even starts to make sure you know where the

bus is going to pick up and what time is going to pick up and that kind of information. So, that's language to just support kind of our own practice like a commitment that we're going to let you know in August before school starts.

you're not going to be waiting like, you know, it's the night before the first day of school and you still have no idea what time the bus is coming for your child kind of thing. But I we can tweak that language to make it clear that um that that that that's that's a signal to people who are here in August and that we might need to account for students who transfer into the district um at a

later date.

Okay. And my last question specifically on this policy um that should be for Miss Ouchain um because I know we are removing some of the the language in here. Have we ran into a a situation where um maybe some parents are going to Desty and using this language as um a way to receive transport. I just want to make sure we're not taking away any transportation from anyone within special programs as a result. No,

because the IEP team is responsible for making those decisions. It's a team process and it's documented right on the student's IEP. So, it's not a policy from a district is actually the regulation from um DESIE. And DESIE gives us two options. If a student is in a specialized program and that program like Dr. Karly mentioned is not available in their neighborhood school.

The school that they would be assigned to if they didn't have a disability.

Doesn't matter where that school is in the district. We are obligated to transport them. If your policy says something different, it wouldn't would not matter. We would still do it. The other option is for students who have specialized transportation. And that's why we I did recommend to Dr. Carly that we change the language. Instead of saying different, we use the language that Desi wants us to use and is called

specialized transportation. And those are for situations like I'm I have a child who's in a wheelchair and I need a specialized vehicle to get them to school. So that's something different.

They could be in their neighborhood school, but they still need specialized transportation determined by the team.

So this policy and that revision does not change anything that we do for special education. Okay, I yield. Thank you.

Am I finding out the 24th? Because I think parents obviously need more than a few days to organize transportation if for some reason they weren't eligible. I was just curious of the switch. It it Yeah. No, I think mid August is fine. I mean that is what we look to do. I think in in in that sense I think in that case I think we would have to set a deadline for parents as well.

I think you should. Yeah. I mean I think that makes sense because it's difficult transportation to organize already.

there should be a deadline. Um, as far as annual, I'm assuming as soon as they get enrolled, they ask for it and then annually every year you got to ask for it. I understood what you meant by transfer request because that's not like an enrollment in here, but if that seems like confusing language, then just put in district transfers, I think.

And then other than that, I mean, that was the only question I had.

Okay. All right. Almost. Thanks.

You have your hand up.

Yeah, you can go first, Mr. Cor. I just wanted to say u as far as the walker and writer policy is concerned um having served as a counselor in the fall of the public schools for over 20 years uh my role was involved in heavy advocacy on behalf of the child and the student sat in many IEP meetings and saw those saw those IEPs written in such a way uh to

accommodate the student in the best way possible. I've never known our school district ever to deny anything legitimate to any one of our school children uh across the board. So, I'm very pleased with the way that this new policy uh this policy was rewritten. I see some of the redactions and in the new ads uh make complete sense to me.

It's very very clear. And I think the idea by August is just so that we can be organized by the beginning of the school year around Labor Day to make sure that all our ducks are in a row. I'm very pleased with the the revisions on this policy. And I know that um we've never denied any student access to any school um if there's a fair request for it throughout the years that I've been

involved in for public schools. Thank you.

I just have one one quick followup question, a comment um based off what Mr. Ber just said, just trying to get some clarification. Like I'm not opposed either to language as um as like a certain deadline is that when um a student becomes eligible. So let's just say as soon as a student becomes eligible, they're notified and then or maybe they're not notified. So, I'm just trying to think of a transfer student,

they transfer in, they have 60 days to put in the transfer, not transfer request, but the transportation request.

Um, or if they're already eligible, it's um 60 days from the beginning of the year or the end of the year. I'm just trying to um so I think what I'm what's running through my head right now is that um maybe the language now that I think about it because I think I think what we would need to say is to secure transportation to start the school year.

Yeah, you need to do it by this date.

Now after that if I think where we what we need to do is be able to start the year knowing how many students are going to actually take advantage of transportation so we have the right number of buses going to our neighborhood and things like that. If if people start if people the masses just did it on a rolling basis, right? And they could kind of raise their hand, you

know, at the end of August, we get 200 kids who say like, "Oh, yeah. I kind of want transportation, too." And they're like, "Well, school doesn't start for another three days. Can't you figure it out?" Very difficult. So, I think it maybe it's language that says if you want if you are um if you want to secure transportation um to start the school year, you need to let us know by this date so that we can

plan for it and then after that guidelines basically.

Yeah. I I think like we just need to make sure that we're um you know when when students transfer into the district, they're living in a neighborhood generally where the bus is going. So it's about adding a student to that bus and saying, "Oh, you live on this street. Oh, the bus stops here at this time. Let's get you a bus tag and let's get you, you know, in case." So it

becomes part of the enrollment process.

for the kids who are here already. It's a little bit it's different because we have, you know, thousands of them that need to be transported.

Yeah. And and I agree with you. Um and I don't even think that needs to be something that's written in the policy.

That could be more procedures that put out by you and your administration. I guess the last comment I will say and um just because I know this policy came up um earlier. I'm a lot happier with the language here than than I was last time.

But um I'll just say that I really think as a district we should at least survey and get feedback from parents who this policy would affect before um we implement it and just so we have an idea and not that's not to say that everything that we receive in feedback we have to implement in the policy.

However, I think it's just um doing our due diligence and um making sure um we understand all all the different scenarios that could happen and what parents might go through when going through um transportation and putting in requests. So, I'll yield at that. I'll make a motion to refer to committee.

Uh I want to make some comments before uh um as I said before, I like the revisions in this policy.

It's very clear. They're very fair and I would hesitate to throw a survey out there unless it's just a survey for general knowledge. Uh because policy as it reads now is already very clear and it's up to our parents in the community to adhere to a very clear policy rather than completely uh think about adding or subtracting and making more revisions down the road. I like the policy as it

stands. I'm ready to go for it. Okay, we have a I have a motion in a second.

Deborah, Mr. Dus, yes.

Mr. Cory, y

item number two, item 302, discussion and vote to refer transfer process policy.

So um before I start I I would just want to make a make it clear that right now we don't have a policy around student transfers. We have like a long history of practice and right now what says transfer policy here actually lives in our student handbook in our district handbook. And so and that's something that gets approved by the district um you know by school committee annually but it doesn't live in the policy

manual. So um what we tried to do was make sure that the that we're putting language into this that either could be adopted as a policy by the committee or it could continue to live in the handbook and I think that's you know up for discussion.

Um, but basically this just outlines for folks what what what the current practice is. So we know that students are assigned to neighborhood schools based on address. It's generally the school that's closest to your address.

Um, we might have some students who it's kind of borderline. You might live within a mile of two different schools or at the middle school you could live I guess within you know a mile and a half of two different um schools that serve middle school students. And um we put in some guidelines here that students may be reassigned based on needs for specialized programming or in consideration of enrollment numbers. So

maybe the school closest to you is full.

We reassign you across the district. Um an indistrict student transfer is defined as a student moving from a district assigned school to another FRPS school. Um and then that happens around you know by choice. This is this is a discussion of what happens by choice and decisions around student transfer request uh requests are made using the following process. Um we open the portal

um in July. So I think it was open maybe July 2nd this year. Um we review requests the first two weeks of August and then a final decision um around a transfer request is granted by the superintendent. So I mean and to that I would say I take responsibility for all of the transfer requests.

Some transfer requests I actually might not see because we agree ahead of time, you know, be as we like as we start to review that when we look at the numbers, I might say like we can review you take up to five more kids at this grade level at this school. So then I'm not in in you know we only get two requests. It's an easy thing. They'll do that at the

parent center under um the supervision of Cynthia Kudo. So transfer requests are granted based on the availability of seats. So someone might really want to go into third grade out of school, but if the numbers are high, we do not um we don't do that. Schools might not be maxed out, right? So if we're looking to max out, you know, at 25 or 26 students, could be that a school is at 24, but we

know historically that that's a neighborhood where the kids are going to keep coming throughout the school year.

We might have to say no to somebody even though it's not quote unquote full. Um and the reason we wait until mid August is like generally speaking that's when things calm down and we can make our best educated guesses.

Priority is given to families with siblings at the requested school followed by hardships then preference.

So often enough we have students who are in a specialized program um and so they're going to school you know maybe across the city and now they have a sibling and parents request that both students are at the same school and we honor those first.

Um transportation is not provided when a student is assigned to a school based on a request. So parents are responsible to transport students if they make a request and it's granted. And we um have language here that says students who have been granted a transfer request will be reassigned to their neighborhood school if they become chronically absent.

Yes.

Additionally, students may be reassigned to their neighborhood schools if the requested school becomes overenrolled from one year to the next. So that last sentence there about maybe you have maybe we had room at a school in you know first grade, second grade and then third grade people have moved in. it's going to be full. We could ask a family to go back um reassign the student back

to their neighborhood school because otherwise we're shutting down that school for kids who live in the neighborhood and we would have to then transport them across the city. Um and we're trying to avoid that.

So um so that's it for that particular policy and again we have it listed here as a transfer policy. It's something that currently lives in the district handbook. Maybe it continues to live there and we don't put it in the policy manual or it becomes policy.

Yep. Good.

Yeah. Um just um going to start the only concern I have with this is the um just the preferences. Um so I'm just trying to understand so hardships. Could you just name some hardships that would be a um that that would facilitate a transfer in the policies? Um Sure. Yeah. We um sometimes a a family will say, you know, I have to be at work in, you know, an hour away at 8:00. I

need to send my student to a school that either has uh, you know, that starts earlier, you know, maybe has like a 720 start or something like that or um or provides before school care or something or I work late and I need to have this or my mother is the primary caregiver. Uh, I work nights and my student goes to his grandmother's house who lives right across the street

from this school. I don't know what and my mother doesn't drive. I don't know what else I would do with my son after school until I get home at 11 o'clock at night kind of thing.

Sure. Um I guess like the same thing I mentioned with the last policy, those are um you those hardships could be granted subjectively and I think it needs to be more of an objective process if we're going to have it like officially a policy because um there's room for um different interpretations that some may not some may seem despair, some some may not. Mhm.

Um the only also concern I have is um it's actually around, you know, special education. I I received a I believe I forwarded to you. I received a complaint recently from um a parent who has um a few different children that one school where the child's doing very well with the services there. Um and it was thankfully right there was a happy ending um with that. they're able to stay within there. But I mean there

could be situations where there aren't happy endings. Um for IEPs in general, is those usually um like the services is a school ever built into the IEP? And so it depends on the type of programming. While we have if a student needs a full inclusion program, we have that in every school building. We have specialized programs like our our um intensive autism program is housed primarily at Henry Board. What we run

into sometimes, which is sometimes important for us to communicate with families, preschool classrooms are spread throughout the city. So you could be assigned a substantially separate program at let's just say Sylvia when your child for prek because that's where the program is. But when they go to first grade Sylvia would I mean sorry kindergarten Sylvia would not be an option because that program no longer

exists at Sylvia. It is all housed in Henry board. We have done that historically in the district it's my understanding so that resources can be pulled and we can have a lot of speech support OT support for those heavy needed uh um heavy um need programs right so that's why sometimes families don't understand that why my child is in one building has success may not be able to stay there because the program they

need doesn't exist at their current school or the school that their sibling attends It's just those highly specialized programs that aren't spread throughout the city. Some of our other specialized programs, we have a couple options, but again is if students are in full inclusion that in that's everywhere. So those requests to keep kids together that can be honored very easily. It's

the specialized programs that we make those calls to families to help them understand and it's usually because prek can be in a different building and have the program and that program doesn't exist in the same building for kindergarten.

Sure.

Yeah. And I was just going to add to that and then sometimes you might have a student in a specialized program sibling wants to go there. It might very well well be full.

Yes. It might already be a grade level that has 28 students in the classroom and by adding the sibling we're adding a paraprofessional to the classroom in like outside of having to turn away students who live in the neighborhood we might actually be having to add extra staff because a sibling wants to come.

So at that point we might still say to a parent like you can't you got to go to your neighborhood school you can't have both of your children in the same school. Um, but we do make every that is the um that's the first place we look and we try to honor those requests first so that we're not filling those seats with other students and saying um no to people who have sibling preference,

right? And I I guess um just going back to priority is um with the full inclusion, I think that should be listed as a priority in the policy. Um, and I guess what I'm just trying to um I would like to get a better understanding of is um if this is implemented as a policy, how many students could be uprooted from their schools that they're currently in and moved to an to another like back to

their home to their neighborhood school?

As a result of which part of this?

The whole policy. This is implemented within policy. Um, are we gonna be seeing like a mass uprooting of students?

Um, so I'm thinking it there's nothing here that would uproot students. The the line that says additionally students may be reassigned to neighborhood schools if requested if the requested school becomes overenrolled from one year to the next. That's potentially the piece.

And I would we would have I wouldn't really have a number. I mean, technically it could be everybody, right? Like every single person whose request we've honored that we honored last year, I could say, "Hey, we honored 200 requests. That means 200 kids are at risk."

But that wouldn't be accurate because we know that there are some schools that never become overenrolled at any grade level kind of thing. Um, so I would be able to answer that better. I guess what I'm trying to argue for is um season is sim similar to how you implement you when when for the original transfer policy that came before the committee and um I remember there was language in

there that advocated for a grandfather clause I think there should be something similar within this policy as well so we're not going to see um even if it's 100 students um it would never be I need to be really I mean I threw out a number like 200 it's never going to be that it's literally going it could be, I don't know, like a small number of students. We'll see more students who are impacted by this

because of chronic absenteeism in our saying to them, no more. You got to go to the school that's across the street from you because we think that's your best shot at getting to school every day on time. Um, and if I'm understanding what you're saying correctly, if we grandfathered people in it per I can clarify per just through their like if they're third grade at Tanzy, they can stay the extra two.

That's what I'm saying. If we did that, then that's equivalent to just striking out the language because if we're grandfathering everybody in, then this applies to nobody.

No, because a Oh, you're saying move any kid who requested a school right now gets to stay, but next year a student who is in or three years forward after they complete their their cycle.

Okay.

Um, and the reason I'm bringing that up is one to give parents some time so it's not, you know, sudden there's no sudden changes for anyone. And two, I mean, I'm just trying to picture myself in those shoes. If you're in Tanzy one year and you get moved to another school the next year, I don't think that's um I don't think that's good for students in my opinion.

Okay. Then then what you're saying is something we've already discussed that if we were if this is what we're doing, this is what we would communicate to anyone who does a transfer request this year. So in August when we run through our list and we'd be contacting families saying yes you can your child can go to this school for second grade. Please understand that next year um if there's

not room at the school because of students who are neighborhood students we're going to have to move your student again. So you're running that risk. So that is something that we're already would already be part of.

I appreciate I understand where the administration's coming from on this.

I'm still juggling a little bit but I yield. Sure.

Um, so I think the policy I think the changes are good. Um, the the few changes that are here, I think they're good. Um, I'm not necessarily in favor of grandfather clause. I think logistically that wouldn't make sense. It would be a nightmare. Um, and I think also I agree it is it's it's it's a bummer to have to tell those parents, but also we have to look at all the other students and

parents. So I move into Fall River and now I'm being told my daughter can't go to the school across the street. I have to ship my kid three miles across the city because so and so's son want it's sticky. You know, I I understand where people are coming from, but the reality is if everything was in the perfect world, we wouldn't have all these big schools, but in a perfect world, we

would all go to our neighborhood school.

So, trans cuz we're talking about saving dollars. This is where we can save dollars. Transportation. So when we're talking about enrolling students and then transporting them here, there and everywhere maybe needing extra buses or you know the way transportation is that is not in the best interest in my opinion for the overall district for every student. It might be helpful to one or two families and those might be

the ones that are calling you and I get it. Those are hard conversations, but in my opinion, the overall students would benefit more from this.

And I mean, the chronically absent just makes sense. I think that's something you're doing positive for the student. It's not retribution. It's how can we help you, you know, be successful.

Um, so I mean I that's all I have to say. I think the policyy's fine. Um motion to refer. You want to say anything?

You want to make some comments?

So I just want to say um lest I be accused of voting in lock step with the administration again, but except uh based on my uh deep experience, I was one of those hardship cases in elementary school that had to go to another school outside of my district.

uh and uh as far as I know forward public schools have been extremely fair in dealing with transfer students uh throughout the decades and I really appreciate the clarity of the language in this policy. It reads very clear and it's extremely fair. Thank you. I yield.

Motion to refer.

Second, Deborah.

Mr. Der, no.

Mr. Cory, yes.

Miss uh Per.

Yes.

Item -303 discussion and vote to refer reimbursement policy.

So there are two different forms pieces to this. So they might be in a slightly different order. So I think the reimbursement policy is titled staff notice, right? Okay. So I'll start by saying this. Um point of information, is there a second paper we should be following or it's just this?

No, because this is it. This is there's nothing else that um this is a new document. Um so we have um been you know for the past year that I've been um where things like this have come to my attention. I know that um you know we get some from time to time we are notified of um staff belongings in some way being lost or damaged or you know whatever it

might be. We have um a situation with a personal laptop that was severely damaged. Um sometimes it's glasses, it could be a pair of shoes, what whatever it is. um and and folks come forward and um are requesting reimbursement. At times it seems like an exorbitant amount potentially for, you know, a pair of glasses that need to be replaced at to the tune of $700 or maybe it's a personal phone or a laptop and that

needs to be replaced that cost $1,000 or more, right? And there's always this discussion around whether or not um say it's a laptop or a phone like should the should the phone have been accessible to the student like if a student threw someone's personal phone like what should the phone have been out kind of thing. Are we taking responsibility for it? That kind of thing. Somebody's glasses. Um no I don't

have a receipt for the glasses. Um, but I know that if I wanted to buy a pair just like this, it's going to cost $700.

So, here's the um bill for the replacement glass, that kind of thing.

So, we were we've been trying to come up with some language that would offer um guidance to people that says like we encourage you to leave your expensive stuff at home. you know, generally speaking, you know, if you are, you know, carrying your phone out to recess duty and you drop it, that's not on us kind of thing. Or, um, if even in some cases where you say a student threw your

personal belongings across the room and it got ruined, that might not buy be our response. So, we're trying to discourage people from bringing kind of high-end expensive things, right? Um, and so I know it's on the agenda as um, a reimbursement policy. Um, and it's there because there's a question, you know, for me around whether or not this is policy material or if this is um general

consensus around how we will provide guidance to staff and conduct ourselves in the event that reimbursement is requested. Um, I feel like I I'm not ready for to make something like this policy necessarily because it's a work in progress and once we commit it to policy then it means coming back here and saying hey you want and now it's come back into subcommittee and then going to full committee and so

on and so on every if we wanted to make a change and so we're looking for some feedback I would say on what this could look like as we think about trying to generalize practice and move toward a policy.

Sure.

Does that make sense?

Per.

So, I'm going to tell you I maybe you even know you guys probably know sitting in executive session with me where I'm I can't believe we're paying people what I think I think the whole policy should be gone. Don't bring personal stuff into your work. We're not responsible for it.

How are we responsible for you breaking your phone? Don't bring it in. Keep it in your pocketbook.

If it's a student that's taking a teacher's pocketbook, going in and smashing a phone, we should be calling the authorities, right? And that student should be held liable for vandalizing somebody's property, not the fur of a school department.

I I bring my iPad in. If one of the times I went to a meeting, you're telling me if somebody came and took my iPad, I'd come back and I'd say, "Oh, superintendent, I was really dumb. I left my iPad here, so I guess you're going to give me $200 now. No, you should look at me and say, Shelly, you should know better than to leave that here. So, I think the whole policy

should go. My opinion, it's the policy should be the for school department is not responsible for your personal belongings. So, leave them home. Use indisters, interest, indistrict services, and if you have a phone, keep it on your person. That would be my opinion. And that's all I have to say about that.

that I yelled.

Yeah, I I agree mostly with my colleague. Um I'm just trying to think of a few different scenarios. Um that if you can because I think No, for example, glasses. You obviously need glass. You're not going to have district glasses at the I'm just trying but to to Mr. Per's point. I mean, if you It depends how they're broken as well. So, I think there should even be a policy which states a student is liable

if they break a teacher or an educator or anyone's personal property. Um because obviously I I agree most personal property should stay home, but there's going to be some like glasses or health matters or or anything um that you're going to have to bring into school and um and if and if a student breaks it, then that family should be responsible and that should be within policy in my opinion.

Can I add sorry thing just on the on the glasses thing to me? Still not not really. It's your glasses. You're responsible for your glasses. You have insurance. They're your glasses. There are risks to certain professions. And you know, maybe I you know, when I was a nurse at a psych facility, I had glasses broken. I think nobody reimbursed me. This is part of your job. Now, I think if we have an

issue where we have students constantly ripping the glasses off of teachers and breaking them, then I think we have bigger concerns here than paying people back for their glasses. But if you're telling me you left your glasses on the chair and a student sat on them and now we're responsible to pay for your glasses. No. Be hardressed to find and I encourage everybody to do that. Hard

pressed to find a situation in which I would agree in paying somebody back for personal property. The only thing you touched on which I didn't think of maybe if somebody has a glucometer attached to them that that's a whole different medical serious issue.

Workers comp. Yeah.

You know, and that probably is a workers comp, you know. Good point, Colin. That is a workers comp thing. So, we shouldn't still have to rework at comp deals with that.

So, to me, no. Keep your personal property at home. Keep it locked somewhere safe. Do stu Do teachers have locked lockers or locked desks or anything here.

Not necessarily. I mean, there could be locked cab. And I'm not suggesting we buy a bunch. I'm just asking if they have them. Then it may be a situation where if for some reason you have to bring this really expensive thing, maybe there's somewhere you can leave it for the day. But I mean, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask employees not to bring in personal items. I think most

people who go into the workforce, you don't bring personal items into work, right?

I will say I I want to I want to be I do want to be clear that like where where it's come up. So, we had it really one of the things you talked about already, you know, student behavior. Student purposefully takes a teacher's laptop and throws it across the room. teacher happens to have their personal laptop with them in the building. We said you really shouldn't, right? But that that

that's a situation student um teacher is breaking up a fight and has their glasses knocked off and then stepped on need to be replaced. Um there's student behav like a student behavior where the student grabs the teacher's glasses and breaks them. I think it's that kind of thing. um most often not I mean I use some examples because I I do think that you know student have teachers carrying

their phone around and they drop it that's really on them but I think that the requests that we get are mostly and that's why there was some language in here um you know use of personal items is loose in support of instruction or school operations district own I think we're trying to avoid you know we've had teachers clothing get ripped when they're trying to break up a fight. I think the last thing we want is to

signal to people that um don't get involved because if your glasses get broken or I don't think people are thinking about that in the moment, but like I don't want to be caught in a situation where people start in any way not following through on some of their what we would think is their like duty because they're afraid that something is going to be damaged. It's not.

Okay. Can I Yeah.

It's not possibly their duty. It is their duty. Right. If they're individuals who are restraint restraint trained in our schools, it is their duty to interview. So, it's their duty. And quite frankly, if you're not going to do your due diligence or do your duty in your job cuz you're afraid of putting a rip in your t-shirt, then find a job elsewhere.

Find a job elsewhere because we need people who actually care about the work they're doing. So, no, I still stand by.

You don't get reimbursed.

Okay. Now maybe the only thing again would be a medical thing. So maybe glasses, maybe this. But again, then it becomes how did this happen? If it's in a restraint situation, different story.

But again, we should be pushing those parents.

We should be pushing that child to be responsible.

Understanding there may be a situation where obviously they can't pay, but you're going to try to we're going to try to push that. And if they can't, obviously we want to make sure our teachers have their glasses because that's a medical need. As far as laptops go, no, I don't care. Don't bring your personal items in school. You know why you shouldn't? Because if one of the students damages, you're out of luck.

So, don't do it.

We don't have money for this. If we did, I'd be happy to say everybody bring in, but we talk about saving dollars.

Yeah, exactly.

How many I mean, really, I get the glasses thing, but how many teachers are really getting their glasses broken? I mean, I'm sure it's not on a daily basis.

Well, I will say it's not a ton. It might be a handful of people, but like this puts uh $200 max on it, right? Because we do come across the 500, 600, $700 replacement glasses because maybe during a restraint or just prior to a restraint, a student takes glasses.

I get it. But I would rather I would rather see the district paying for the glasses, whether they're $700 or not, if they were damaged in a restraint or a safety issue, than giving everybody 200 for a ripped t-shirt. Oh, this polo shirt was $80. I'm sure it was. You got it at Savis last night, buddy. You know what I mean?

So, this is the way we No. So, medical reasons, I would support that. I would support reimbursement for damages of medical, you know, things that would help medical or health care needs or supplies that were damaged. I would even say reimburse, but I think we do need to follow up. There needs to be some policy where following up with parents and students who are damaging property.

I mean, what can we do? Maybe we can make that student clean the classroom, write a letter. I don't know, an apology. I I'm this is up to the teachers and instruction, but there's got to be something because obviously damaging someone's personal property isn't okay. But I I will never vote for any reimbursement other than medical whatever. So unless you come up with something.

So I So some of the you know there are general guidelines. It ends with follow public schools is not responsible for property brought onto school grounds and cannot guarantee re reimbursement for such items. In general, the district does not reimburse staff for personal items that are lost, stolen, or damaged at work. However, in limited and specific circumstances, and this is maybe too loose, such as when an item is

damaged while an employee is performing a required duty, reimbursement may be considered. Still no guarantee.

Yeah, too loose. Examples of items that may qualify for reimbursement under these circumstances include eyeglasses, it says, or clothing damaged during the course of jobrelated actions that go beyond the routine scope of the workday but fall within professional expectations.

I mean I think you know again glasses and and all of and maybe like a glucometer or something along these lines I think we need to reimburse quickly right however I think that's very loose doing your duties when you're a teacher as soon as you step in the building you're on you're doing your duty all day so it doesn't matter what's going on right and then what was the other oh clothing

yeah I I still don't agree with the clothing keep the Gucci at home I Because how do you rationalize how much a t-shirt is?

Are they going to give us a receipt?

They're not. So, do you know what I'm saying? So, it becomes minutia. I'm sorry, you ruined you ripped a t-shirt.

You know, it things happen. Again, I don't think this is something that's happening on a consistent basis. And if it is, then that's something that should be addressed with that staff member like, hey, let's help them out because there there's obviously there's a situation here. They're constantly getting their shirt ripped. This is not okay. Maybe they need more support, right? Maybe they need um a little

update and restraint training, whatever the case may be, right? But I'm I'm not going to be for that. Wear clothes that are affordable to school, that are professional and affordable. So this way if they get ripped, because I don't know how you would how you would even organize that. Do you know what I mean?

Like I I thrift shop all the time and I'll be like, "Oh, so cute. I paid $6, but the person who originally bought it might have paid 60." How do I know what you paid? So wait, it's too much.

Minutushka. I don't like it. So this the little ways that we lose money. Twinkle, twinkle, twinkle. It's like leaving the faucet dripping. So that's my opinion.

Okay.

Thank you. Um just um um two a few different things just just to respond slightly and just to add a few more ideas, my two cents. Um I first have we I mean do we even know if there's like a legal obligation if um if something's damaged at workplace we're automatically liable? like have we discussed anything with legal counsel like Bruce side Michael Joyce or anyone we've talked about things as um as

things have come up um circumstances I think you know if if we had a teacher who was assaulted you know when we think generally if a teacher was assaulted in in during that glasses got broken or you know I mean obvious there are some obvious things and then I think other times it's come up and truthfully sometimes it has come up It's, you know, with a my glasses got broken and here's

the receipt for my new ones and the question is how much are the old but how much are the old ones cuz I spent 35 bucks on mine.

So there's that piece of it as well and it speaks to what you're saying like you go thrift shopping, do you get is it the reimbursement cost for off the rack or for what you paid for it in the thrift store? So, it's those kinds of questions that give us like make us pause and be like like what what do we do about this? Because it seems over the top, but we're trying to be respectful

because the teacher was right. I know. I understand.

Caught up in this thing that isn't a typical workday expectation.

Yeah. And I guess the second point and just we should get a better understanding like you you made some examples um of what teachers are bringing to you. Um, I've talked to few different educators when this came up and like I heard a story, maybe you heard the same one about a laptop being destroyed.

Mhm.

Um, and so I think there's I think one we should and I know I've been talking about surveys throughout the meeting, but this is one where we should receive feedback to understand what we're dealing with here. Um, I just about the survey thing. I I we like we have a survey that's going out around um redistricting. it'll be out in the next couple days, right?

It's always like needing to be really careful about the kinds of questions you ask. Like we're not going to ask parents, hey, do you think it's a good idea to redistrict because we know we have to. And the last thing I want is for every person who loves where they are. You know, we could get 8,000 parents to say no redistricting. And then what do we do? Then we got to go be

like sorry we asked for your opinion but doesn't matter if the overwhelming number right so that you're talking about par I don't want to go off so but I'm saying like there's an so same thing like I just I want to be clear about what kinds of question what kinds of survey what what what would a survey consist of here um have you have you ran have you received any personal damage to

your personal property um what was the result of that was it those type of questions okay so just serving people for their experience.

Exactly.

Okay.

And the reason I'm bringing it up is um and maybe I think my colleague and I would agree I'm I'm going to assume here is if the there's a student that it's more and this is a little tricky, but if it's like a a student who knows what they're doing and they destroy property, this should be something in the handbook that says you're liable for that. You're going to pay up. That should be in

there. um it gets a little bit more tricky where um you know it is a a subsearate classroom or you run into a situation um so and so maybe a policy where there's certain quotas like we're not going to reimburse like the $600 shirt. you shouldn't come in with a $600 shirt, but certain minimum quotas like um for different items like up to a certain amount because we got I believe

we have to do right by you know the people who are in the classroom as well and to a certain extent especially if it's not their fault and they are within their their duties. That's why I think just talking to legal counsel making sure seeing what the duties are the district to um reimburse because I I'm not opposed to again one I think it needs to be within the handbook and two a policy

similar to this I don't even think this is that bad should somewhat like it and um just with certain number guidelines and just sending maybe guidelines out to educators remind them hey don't bring in the very expensive items we We provide district laptops. Um, and if there's an issue with the with technology that they have, their their laptops aren't working, whatever, that's a separate

issue and then we need to that's something that we should definitely address as well.

But in terms of that, it's just um Yeah, I think I I spoke.

Yeah. No, and I think that what you said about the um about that kind of survey, I think could be helpful. So, like I said, I know what my experience has been this year and the things that have kind of wowed me. And we may have a number of people who do have some things that are damaged in the general course of things and who have never asked for reimbursement because and it would be

good to get the lay of the land on that.

I always just want to make sure that we're like we want feedback from people.

I want to make sure it's the like the kind of feedback we can actually use, not beyond our control. Like if I if we were going to ask people, hey, can you know, do you think we should reimburse people if their glasses get broken?

Yeah, I know what they would say, right?

Potentially, and we might not be able to honor that. So, it's like asking the right questions, like you pointed out, is just what I want to make sure we do with any kind of survey, whether it's, you know, staff, parents, you know, whatever it is.

Sure.

I think um I think it's important to to get the to talk to the our educators and see what their feeling is. That's important. I think what the the the concept would be, hey, we're going to implement a policy that we're not giving reimbursements for any personal items.

Obviously, glasses are different. You need it. I'm talking about phones, laptops, these type of things.

Um, we're no longer giving reimbursement for personal items. We're asking you to keep your personal items at home or stored safely, locked up, whatever the case may be. How would this impact your daytoday?

You know, and there may be because I certainly don't want a teacher who the uh maybe the technology isn't appropriate in her class or her his or her classroom or whatever that they need to use their own stuff. That's a different situation. If we have a teacher, it shouldn't be the case. So, if it's the case, that's problem number one. And if it's a temporary situation and their laptop or something gets

damaged because they have to use it cuz we're not providing them equipment, that's a different situation. they're getting permission to bring their personal item in, you know, with that.

But I think just eliminate, don't bring like don't bring your personal items in.

Don't bring your personal items in. As far as ripped t-shirts and glasses, I think we're talking predominantly about a a subse like a subsection of of the population, right, of our district. So maybe looking into asking them what does that look like? because I'm, you know, I'd rather see giving giving people, you know, who are working in substantially separate classrooms that we see are

maybe having I I don't think this is happening that often. I guess we'll find out.

No, I don't.

But if this is constant, as far as we know, it's maybe a handful of times, but every time it's shocking.

It's a, you know, $1,500 computer. It's a 700 and we're stuck like, are we supposed to be the right?

So, I think all the computers and those things have to go away. But other things that are done in the line of work just like anything you would get work is comp for if you get injured you know trying to restrain a student or something along those lines then yeah we're going to reimburse the classes and I think I don't know if we can do this but it might be this is just a thought I'm just

like talking out loud maybe yes uh you have to fill out this form to reimburse and we also need to see the broken glasses. Are they in fact broken? And then you can see what glasses they are.

So, oh, I see you got these, but you're asking for glasses that are $500 more than that. May be a way to like kind of rational it out and say, "Look, if you want to get those fancier, you can, but we're just going to give you $300.

You're going to have to add the rest or whatever cuz you can't tell people what glasses to get." But I don't know. You know what I mean? But I certainly would be I think stressing keep your personal things at home. You don't need them.

Okay. So, madam superintendent, um in the first week of the new school year, each principal runs an orientation session in their own respective schools.

Mhm.

And in those orientation sessions, they're giving out they're doing out instructions for the entire teaching staff and other staff members within the building about the dos and the don'ts for the upcoming school year. And I'm sure they go over items like this, you know, as far as like keeping your personal, you know, your personal laptops should not be in the school. You know, we're not

responsible for all of these things.

Um, I've been I've been to a lot of those meetings and uh in my own in my own experience, I never brought any of my own personal stuff into school.

Always depended on school related stuff to have in my classroom or in my office.

Uh, that being said, I think I'm going to uh petition Mr. Almea uh to write me a check for the fight that I broke up in 2005 in the corer at Dery High School.

That cost me a shirt and a necktie. So, you know, and it was it was a gap shirt.

It was a pretty nice shirt, Mr. Almea.

So, with maybe with the accumulated interest over the past 20 years, you know, maybe I can make a killing off of that one. You know what I mean? But uh I did break up a fight and I did lose the shirt and the neck. I had to go home and redress myself to come back to work that day. Uh and there was another fight that I broke up when I was working at Henry

Lord where it cost me a muscle tear in my shoulder breaking up two guys and splitting them up apart like that. And then the next day I couldn't move my arm, you know. So, uh everything got taken care of by workman's comp on that.

And uh so I've lived it. uh and um not worried about that. But I would hope that principles in each of their respective schools were during their orientation sessions at the beginning of the school year would highlight these recommendations. And my last question is um there are general these are general guidelines, but is this written into a policy? Are you looking to write it into

a policy? No, I I I know it's listed here as like a maybe a a reimbursement policy, but it really is like we would like to give some guidance to people. And at some point, I feel like the committee might say like we need a policy around this or something, but we haven't we're just very responsive. Something happens, we have to make a decision. We want to like frontload, give people this like these

guidelines and then have a more uniform response and then maybe I don't know.

Maybe.

So, if we move this to the full committee, is that what you're looking for? Maybe if the full committee says yes, we should do a policy. Is that what we do? We proceed forward with a policy, try to write a policy on it.

It could or it could just be that we leave here today, you know, got having gotten some feedback from members of the committee. um kind of rework some of the guidance, maybe get, you know, get some feedback from people and then move forward with this as a practice.

Yeah, maybe it comes back at some point as a policy. I I don't know. I don't know that h I'm not necessarily looking for a referral to full committee as a policy at this point.

And so I know that there are a lot of our school teachers um go out and buy stuff on their own and uh they bring them into the classrooms for kids to use. Are we going to be responsible for that loss of property as well if things get broken or stolen or anything like that?

So, I mean, we again, we're trying to discourage people from bringing in and spending their own money and, you know, we try to communicate with people around these are all the things that are available to you. You don't have to go out to buy your own markers and and all the things, right?

So, that really isn't the kind of thing that people have come to us for.

Good. it that really that hasn't been at all. Um it really is more of the things we talked about electronics glasses maybe.

Good. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is great.

I think this is very direct, you know, and it would would discourage most of our at least our staff members from bringing in personal items. Kids are another story, but we'll work it. Okay.

Thank you. I yield very very quickly. Um, like I said, I think um I'd love to hear the feedback from educators on this and staff members, but I think um what's most appropriate right now? I'll make a motion to table.

Second.

And uh what's the purpose of the table?

just so I'm assuming we can come back and talk about it more to make to see is that what you're because we want to she's going to look into talking to the teachers and see what's up and then we'll either do that or then I want to make a motion to refer otherwise what do we talk about today how do we know what's going to be resolved or get done that was my thought process

so you know what I mean I understand you're saying we don't need a policy created but maybe we do so if you want to just like think about it for a while touch base with the educators see what feedback you Yeah.

And then come back for next week.

But whatever. I don't think it's a rush, right? Tell us for not break anything.

Yeah. In the foreseeable future, right? I don't think it's like a rush, but then when you figure it out, maybe get a little more, you can come back here and then at that point maybe we will want to refer it to the full committee as a policy. Or I think I think it's great that you brought it up and we had this discussion on this topic today. I think it's it's a

great way to look at. Thank you.

Okay, Deborah.

Mr. D.

Yes.

Yep.

Miss Par.

Yes.

For item 304, discussion and vote to refer purchasing policy.

Yeah. So we have um an expense re an expense reimbursement policy DKC and that it's come up um multiple times during the year like that we need a policy around um reimbursements for hotels for food and things like that. So I just wanted to bring this here in terms of recognizing that we do have this expense reimbursement policy um which is you know I would say you non-specific um just outlines that um personnel and

school department officials who incur authorized expenses and carrying out their duties will be reimbursed upon submission or properly completed and approved voucher and any supporting receipts required by the superintendent.

So there's language here that supports the fact that like someone puts in a travel request, it gets approved.

Afterwards, they hand in their expenses and they were approved. So I really just wanted to supply here some backup so that people could um see the forums that we um were it's like currently using, but we're actually tweaking them right now.

So, I just wanted to point out some of the things that um so the form that says request for travelschool business day in the middle there um where it talks about expenses, the old form would have like registration fee and then substitute fee.

What's substitute fee?

That would be if it's a teacher who's going to a PD, then it would cost us.

We'd know that it's going to cost us money to replace the teacher for the day.

Got you.

So, it would cost So, it's not their expenses like ours.

HRS, right? Um, and so we added to this, I added to this lodging, meals. Um, the transportation piece was there, but only as mileage, but we know that sometimes people are um, you know, Uber lift.

Oh, it says Uber lift rental. And actually, it should say like airfare as well. I Okay, neglected that because it might need to say airfare as well.

So, um, we want to move forward with something like this so that when someone says, "Hey, I want to go to a PD." We know upfront.

It's not just about registering and getting a sub. We're also, we want people to estimate their travel. We want people to do all of their things so that when we say yes, we know like kitten kaboodleoodle what we're approving here.

Once this gets approved, the next page shows what people actually fill out.

um afterwards for reimbursement.

So you can see transportation, lodging, meals, other um that transportation could be airfare, it could be the rental car, it could just be that they are um transporting themselves and we're paying for mileage, but there's lodging. And so we're asking people to estimate ahead of time like what are we looking at in terms of a hotel expense if we approve this? What are we looking, you know,

signaling to people that the meal will max out at $40 a day, that it's not you're going away and we're going to, you know, reimburse you for, you know, $100 dinners and $50 lunches and stuff like that. So, um, so two different questions. one on transportation. I've noticed this when um signing off on the batch is that we um let's just say for example an individual's going to Franklin um

they'll go up the 024 go to 195 and go to Franklin that way it's technically less and we reimburse by the mileage. is technically less if they went through not the highway because the highway it's less time but it's more miles if you're going through the non-highway route many times it's more time but less miles and less we have to pay um so are we supposed to reimburse the least amount of miles when we're doing this

I don't know what the requirement is I I mean my opinion on this is that we wouldn't I'm not asking someone to spend an extra like 20 or 30 minutes in the car and taking back roads. Um, just because we're looking to save 70 cents a mile.

70. I mean, it we could be talking about like $5 and I'm not going to ask or $10 and having someone spend additional time in the car.

Yeah, I wouldn't be in favor of that, but no, I don't think we say, "Show me the shortest distance."

get yourself there on time and in the probably the quickest way.

Yeah.

No, I appreciate that. Um meals I support. Um I guess for when we're factoring in hotel cost and transportation again um I believe personally it should be up to a certain amount. Um I've seen some hotel costs that I believe are more than the bare minimum that we could be purchasing as a district. And um also when we're reimbursing I guess general practice for example um are we going to because this happened in

one of the batches if we're reimbursing a vehicle but however there's a conference and that individual is staying at the hotel where the conference is being hosted and um we're paying why would we also pay for a vehicle? We should just pay for the Uber to the airport at that point. What what would be the purpose of them having a vehicle? Are we also is it permissible to have a vehicle for

private travel when they're not, you know, um at the conference like during like off time? Say it's like a 3-day conference.

Yeah. I mean, I completely hear what you're saying. I don't know of any, but I don't know if it's something like you've confirmed has happened. I don't know of anybody who was going staying at the conference center and still got a car rental for three days. I'm not aware of that happening.

Brought it to I I'll bring it up again.

I I'll email you the um Okay. I I don't remember having that.

So, if that's the case, I would just forward that email again. But, um it was the Vegas one.

I think I think so.

I know it was about staying off of Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know that that's because the person I don't I we did talk about it.

Yeah. But I don't know that that person was staying at the conference center and got a car. I don't know that to be fact.

I will follow I mean if you send that to me again I will check. I'm not sure I understood that that was the question at that time. But um I will say like I agree with you about that. I don't think it makes sense for someone to have a rental car if they're staying across the street from the reason they went there.

I don't I agree. I mean sure. I guess and also even if they weren't even if it wasn't at the hotel as well, I guess we should also factor in cost of an Uber versus cost of a rental. Um I don't know, maybe just cuz maybe till recently I always when I was under 25, I always had to pay like the $100 fees. Like they can be expensive, those rental companies.

They're crazy expensive. I think what I know will h or what I think I know will happen is that there'll be some point where someone gets out of a conference at 5:00 in the afternoon and they get their Uber and we get a bill for like $50 or $60 for their ride to the hotel and then people will be asking why. But it's because during like prime time rush hour

the rates go up and so now what would have been a $15 Uber ride is 50 or 60 and then we'll be answering that question. So I think again it might be around giving people guidance that the expectation is that they're going to do this in the most economical way possible. Um, and I would just ask that we be given the opportunity to ask the questions ahead of time. Um, and not on

the back end like one when it's done, it's done.

Um, so I'd be looking for people to ask, you know, to estimate here and then let us ask the questions.

No, I agree with when they when they do that here.

I I had a few more questions, but I'm going to yield to my colleagues.

I mean, I I I I think the form's great.

I think it makes so much sense because even we're talking about lodging, which does vary depending on if you're in Vegas or, you know, Springfield. But it's great that they're telling you ahead of time like, "Hey, I looked. This is the hotel." So you can gauge and say, "Wait, $600. Let me look around." Oh, yeah. That's an average price of a hotel.

You know what I mean? So, I think that's perfect.

And having a limit so they're aware of what their limit for food, I think, is perfect. I think Ubering and and renting a car, it's really on a case- by case basis. Lifts can be very expensive. In places like downtown Boston, New York City, Vegas, any place during rush hour, a $50, $60 lift is not a thing. It could cost me 70 just to get from here to Providence. So, you may be saving money

having this person stay at this hotel because the hotel's cheaper, but are we losing money doing this? So, I think we have to, you know, I think this is a great form. I think that the employees here are going to be cognizant of what they're not going to and then I think it's just great because then you can kind of zoom in. So I don't know if anybody else has anything to say but we

can defer it or I just you looking for a motion to refer.

Well, so I I I think I just want to be really clear. So I it keeps coming up like what's the policy on this? So this is the policy. So, it's a question of are we good with keeping the policy as long as procedurally in the district we're using forms like this or now that people are aware of what we do or how we do it, do we just keep the policy as is?

I'll I'll make a motion to refer as a discussion item. Does it still get more committee input?

I mean, I like the policy the way it is in my opinion as long as you attach those two forms. maybe changing the policy to include that those two forms have to be completed or whatever. But I mean I think let's bring it to the committee and see what other people have to Okay. Are you seconding that second?

just have one one quick question on the on the because the purchasing policy is before us and I'm just generally curious um what is the p what is the purpose of the school committee signing off on on the expenditures it's it's procedure that everybody follows um across across the state it's oversight so it's um this mandated in state law or is Some is this a practice that is this a good practice?

I think it's just a good practice.

I yield motion in a second.

Yep.

Mr. Das.

Yes.

Mr. Cory.

Yep.

M Miss Per.

Yes.

We're going to item 305. Is that where we're going, Madam Superintendent?

Uh yes. I believe these were 305. discussion and vote to refer the creation of fall of the public schools policy and parent advisory council representation.

Um I was the individual motion to refer this. Can I take the floor?

Excuse me.

Have the floor.

Go ahead. I think um yeah so I think just having um from this is going back a few months now but having conversations with some individuals on the packs um I thought it was important just for for these different packs um again the English learner pack the C pack just to have a more um unifi unified voice um superintendent is there any objection or any anything from from your side on this implement limitation.

So we so we have an LLPAC and we have the CPAC.

Yes.

And so this is to um create a district-wide parent advisory council.

Yes.

Okay. Yeah.

Motion motion to refer to full committee would adise.

No, we haven't discussed it yet. Uh so sorry, Miss Pereira. I don't have a I I like having parent involvement, so I'm for that to a certain, you know, to a certain degree. Um I think certainly having parents attend the parent advisory committee. Makes sense. Um this right here where it says these representatives have the right to participate in all public school committee meetings, but shall not have

the right to attend executive session.

I'm a complete no on that. We're you're elected for a reason, right? Or appointed, whatever. We're all elected for a reason. um and allowing and and in my opinion in my opinion people voted for you to do this job right but in my opinion this that's not what this is and I think that we have to be very careful because I know we like to think that we invite parents to the table it's helpful

but I think we've seen in the past it's not it can be intimidating to our staff as we've seen it can you know we can make our staff literally change policy you know I I think involvement in parents is one thing, but involving them in a meeting and basically making them equal to Mr. Corey at a school committee meeting, which essentially it is besides executive session, which we all know you

guys want and open open anyway. But besides that, that's literally the only thing. So, what are they going to extend the table? They can ask more questions.

They're going to I'm 100% no to that. Um I'm all for voting to bring it to the full committee.

Um Sure.

But I won't I won't vote for it if that's in it.

Um as well as some of those other things. But if I may respond, I guess the the purpose wasn't to um give the full duties like there's no voting power here. It's more of just to give a section based off of what we do for the student delegates that come on to the stage having a section for them as well.

This was actually based um in different bills that are before state law. And I again this would be made up of um individuals based off of those two separate packs. So I think the way you described it here is a little bit different than when we have our student delegates. Our student delegates come in, they speak to the issues that are important to them, just like citizens at citizens input. So if you're talking

about delegates coming in and at the beginning just giving a little blurb of their concerns, that's one thing. That's not what it says here. It says participate in all public school committee meetings. That tells me they're going to sit here and ask questions and raise their hand and be involved in the meeting. Too many cooks in a kitchen. So the opinions I want to know their suggestions we want to hear

cuz they're important and valuable.

Absolutely. I I don't disagree. But again, sometimes too many cooks in the kitchen causes problems. This to me reeks of what would cause a problem because I've already seen it in the recent past cause problems in my opinion. In my opinion. So I do think that's a it's a great idea to get parent involvement. I think you're headed I think this is in the right direction. I just think this is way too much. That's all

I understand.

And I'm I I Oh, sorry. Go ahead.

No, I I I think um and and I agree with you. Maybe it was a little too much language here. That was a little bit confusing as well. And I think um it would be beneficial just to have again representative of these packs. Um, believe Miss Overchain works closely with the CPAC and I'm sure Miss Machin would say they're very um they're professionals and they're they're really Sure. Yes. They're I mean they're great

to work with, but I also want to want to acknowledge the fact of at the parent engagement committee when they did come they did express not wanting to be at a full committee meeting. They would prefer to come to a subcommittee meeting.

Yeah, I remember that cuz we had this conversation before. Yeah, I remember that. And I think they I think even if elected to these um non-paying right volunteer positions, they shouldn't be required to come to the subcommittee, but if they feel it's necessary or important in getting whatever they need to get heard then for for sure. Um but again, I would stand by the same thing.

Come to the meeting. I want to hear you know from you and what's going on. But I think it's it's it's becomes very concerning when we invite people who are not employees of the district because these they're not employees. We got to keep that in mind. When we invite employees to the district to our table because I found in the past it has been that our staff has felt intimidated, manipulated, and bullied. And I don't

think that's a place we want to put our staff in. And it's hard to navigate that when they're not employees of the district. So, I just think a lot of the back and forth, although important, not always helpful in these circumstances, but certainly having them have a seat at the table to voice opinions and criticisms and concerns. Absolutely. But we also have citizens input for that as

well. So, that's where I I don't really understand the necessity because everyone is welcome to come. So I I'm not saying they shouldn't have somebody elected so that maybe on their part they're doing some good organization and communication as to what's brought brought here. You know, that makes sense. But I'm kind of leaning to we have citizens input.

So why wouldn't we already allow they're always allowed to come and speak and speak to whatever their their concerns are. I think anything beyond that becomes a you're an employee of the school and you're going to have a seat at the table. And that's something that I think may be valuable to some extent.

I think it's going to cause way more problems than it's going to be helpful in the long run in my opinion. And I'm not I'm not I respect what you have to say. I will be right. You can say, but I got to Sure.

Thank you, sir.

Um if I could if I could just echo my colleagues sentiments and she's not even a staff member of the fall public schools. Um but her point of view on that part on this particular issue is right on. Um, madame superintendent, if I can just have a breakdown.

We have PTO's, right? Every school has a PTO.

PTO, school council, parent. So, there are parent teacher organizations in each school.

There are school councils which parents are always invited to in each of our schools. Mhm.

And um as far as like the packs are concerned, the LPAC and the CPAC um I've been to several CPAC meetings previously um they handle themselves eloquently and there's also a chain of command where they could refer to as as as far as CPAC is concerned they could refer to Miss Oben chain as and then she could reflect their issues to us and then we can act accordingly.

on those issues. So eventually we're hearing about all of the issues that are prevalent that parents raise. So there's there's no way that we're limiting their voice to my knowledge anyway. And again, I'm going to reiterate, I'm speaking personally for myself, not only as chairman of this policy committee, but as a as a counselor in the for public schools, my life, my career was based in

advocacy on behalf of the student. and I worked extremely closely with parents and in any way that we could get a parents point of view on the table, we would uh if we invite parents uh and have a parent advisory council attend our meetings, I can only see our our business becoming extremely messy because then it starts to veer off course. They need to have if if there is such a thing as a parent advisory

council, it would need to have its own charter, its own leadership, and it would have to be strictly volunt volunteer on on their behalf. But we're elected, as my colleague just stated, we're elected to be those voices, you know, on matters of education and students and staff and teachers. So I I'd be very very weary to open up the doors um because we're already giving them citizens input. We never limit s

today we had six inquiries for citizens input alone. We don't ever ever limit that. We don't in my 30 minutes.

Yeah. But but that that's in mass general laws meetings need to be succinct.

Yeah. meetings need to be orderly and succinct. We just can't go on and on and on and on like a run-on sentence. And that's why laws are written that way and that's why procedures are written that way. Uh so yeah, no, I'm going to be with my colleague. I'm I'm I'm a no on this.

I mean, what I will say is if you want to table table this and come up with something that's a little better, but here's here's some concerns I have.

Okay. And I'm still going to have these concerns probably going to come with something better. I'm just trying to work together. Um, so some of the the issues I have too, like the terms like responsibility serve one term, da da da da. Should we be the one making these rules? Like to me, if parents want to set up a an organization, like Mr. Corey was saying, they can do it on their own.

They can set up their own terms. They can set up their own thing. We don't I mean how much really do we do in regards to like the the you know whatever said schools they run their own student government or what have you. So the PTO or whatever organization could run their own election and they could literally have their own meetings where they can get together and organize things and

bring them here. So that I don't know if that's necessary. I understand what you're trying to do. I I do and I I I get it. Here's the thing, Colin, that maybe to you haven't seen or maybe you have seen.

I don't know. Here's the thing about parents. I'm saying this cuz I'm warm.

We get very very passionate about our kids. And sometimes sometimes, a lot of the time, we can maybe think irr or maybe just, you know, think in a way that's just in service of our child. And we can get very passionate about that as parents should because that's your child. That's your love. It's like having your heart just walking around outside and you can't protect it all the

time. So, because of that, it's hard for parents to come in and be super It's hard for me to be level for Pete's sake.

It's hard for parents to come in and be super level-headed and calm about some of the things we're discussing because to them, it's their child, right? Which is a lot different than us looking at all of the children, right? So, I think sometimes that's when it gets to be challenging.

So, I mean, I'm all for tableabling it if you want to figure something out that might be more appeasing to me, but this is really pushing it because I feel like they have a spot. They have citizens input and they're welcome to come. And if they can't, they're welcome to write a letter um for all of that, hands down.

But I don't think this is ready to be referred yet because quite frankly, if if it was, it's going to be voted down probably, right? If it goes to full committee this way, would you agree?

feedback. We're just taking educated guesses here, but between you and me, what do you think? So, I hate for you to bring this to full committee and then it gets voted down, whereas maybe we table it and you figure it out. This isn't like 911 stuff. So, maybe you reword it and bring it back here so that it's got a fighting chance.

No, I agree with you. Um, and if I can just um briefly respond and I and hearing I definitely hearing a lot of your feedback and and I agree with some of it. Um, I guess my I think it's important to note we have and rightfully so, we have student delegate comments specifically for students. They're also citizens and they have a specific section to give um to give feedback. Um, I think it's

important to also have a section again for these parent groups. It wouldn't just be this would be coming from their leadership. It wouldn't just be throwing it wouldn't be much emotion. It would I guess it would be more collective I understand more yeah things that separating from the citizens input it's more of an organization giving it I don't disagree with that it just isn't written that way

I understood and if and just one followup question in in terms of um backup that we give on these meetings I understand um we give um like a not the executive session stuff but we get give knowledge to um like the unions am I am I right on That's my understanding.

Can you say more about that?

So the backup we get on board docs for our meetings, a copy of that also goes to the um union leadership.

I do not.

Yes, it does. Okay. I I'm not sure. So I don't know.

No, it's fine. It's fine. I guess what I'm also trying across all unions or just FREA?

Just FREA. When I came on it was Rebecca Cusk at the time and I mean no I was never informed that FAA um also that.

Okay.

They've never reached out requesting it and I'm totally supportive of that. One other thing we could do as well is give that um because that backup that's more that's again nothing executive. That's just the general stuff. Um that's all public knowledge the public knowledge items. So for example for the city council I receive as one member all their backup for things like that. So I think um

something we could also do is just send them the backup like the like how we give to FREA. We we I think we should give it to all the unions that want it and also and maybe we can go back and and get feedback from them if they would like to back up information so they could be more informed and if they have an opinion on a different policy they

can um write us a letter or so I think that's something we should also consider as well. I don't even think that even has to be a policy just could be a practice. Um but no again to my colleague I um appreciate the um the the feedback and duly noted and um go back to drawing board on that. I'll I'll make a motion table but second.

Okay. But um go for it.

I'm not done yet. Um I I want to refer to the issue that involved us uh taking the Tanzy school and making it into an early childhood center and it caused a fur amongst the Tanzy community and and many others. Um as a result of that issue, I took it upon myself to attend the PTO meeting at Tanzy and face the parents straight on.

I remember that meeting uh very vividly.

I stood in front of all of the parents.

They gave me their strict concerns regarding and uh I came back and reflected it to the full committee and um we listened openly and we processed and we we we rethought that entire issue and continued to keep Tany as it is a neighborhood school. And that's because the parents spoke loudly and transparently about their feelings and we listened to them objectively and acted accordingly. So I don't see in any

way where we're limiting parents' voices at all in any of our deliberative process. I think our process moves forward. I think it's openly transparent. I think it's openly democratic. And uh as I said, we are advocates for teachers and students and we will formulate our policy based on advocacy needs as we roll into the future and as you know the different situations confront us. So with that, I

I just I think we're fine where we're at. And I think that this would just make things far more complex and um I want to stay away from that. that just takes away from the succinct nature of our deliberative process. I'll yield.

May I just briefly respond to your comments?

Yes.

And I and um and I appreciate your comments and I think um just want to speak briefly about the importance of of parent input. Um, I understand like and I wasn't on the committee at that time, but I understand there was um some contention from parents and I know superintendent just brought up a point shortly before that if um we went to parents with a survey regards to redistricting, we would hear

um bad feedback and and and you're probably right, but I think that's um why we signed up for the job. And I think feedback from parents, good, bad or indifferent, is um just a democratic process. Again, parents are also of the Fall River public schools are also citizens of Fall River and they um deserve to have their voice heard and and they also have a right in the process to speak their mind. So, I think

it's important that we take in parent feedback whether it's good, bad or different. And also and I think a way to again at maybe calm some concerns especially around you mentioned um redistricting is to provide education to parents on why we're doing it and um why certain things are done. I think education and keeping parents and anyone informed goes a long way with many different with many different aspects

within our school system. So um I'll leave it at that. But again, I think parent feedback's very important.

And I just want to add something. I And that's why I just think it's important that we are very clear when we're sending out surveys and things like that that we ask that we like we offer the opportunity for people to participate in the way, you know, that's appropriate. I start by saying like if I were going to send a survey like yes or no, do you think we should redistrict? If I know in my heart

of hearts that that's something that we need to do, it's not a fair question because it gives people it would give people the impression that if if half the people said I don't think we should do it, that I'd be in a position or that the committee would really be in a position to say you're right, we won't.

I think like it's already been, you know, communicated so many times that it's something that we have to take a look at that what I want to know is like what's the best way to do it? That's where we need to get the input from people like we want to give people an opportunity to participate in a way that can be impactful. Nobody wants to I if I I know there was you know we brought up

the Tanya thing like it was disastrous in part because we didn't ask right like we didn't ask the question that made it worse or if we or or sometimes if we ask we in some situations we ask a question and then we might say like I'm going to ask but I don't care what you say I might that's not fair to do to people.

So, I just want to be able to in all of the things that we're doing when you talk about you asked me like do you think like a parent advis a district-wide parent I think that's a wonderful thing. I think if we can figure out how to make it like a working body that could really have a voice, not feel like they have a voice, but actually have a voice in a way that's

appropriate and could have an impact.

Amen. I think everybody wants to do that. It's just a matter of, you know, one of the things I look at here, it's like um including in any and parents from any parent teacher organization. If we created a an advisory council that said LPAC, CPAC, and then representation from every PTO, that that council just keeps getting bigger and bigger. We're we're looking at 20 plus um people on a parent that

might get to a point where like too many people because the truth is every school leader you say every parent is coming it's like hopefully they come with the best interest of their school in mind but maybe even within that there are people who come with the best interest of their children in mind. So it's like just wanting to be really careful about that representation. Um and also that

the fact that some schools their parent teacher organization might not even be representative of their student body in terms of parents who are directly involved. So it's like there's a just a lot of work to be done on that end in terms of being really clear about how we want to create.

Sure.

Um, it's this is a non-issue because I think we're already we're already entertaining every parent's concern throughout the district in every which way. There's a chain of command. It starts with the principal and it ends up at the superintendent's desk and I trust that you're going to look at each issue that arises uh very deliberately and bring it to our attention as necessary. I'm I yield.

Mr. D.

Yes.

Mr. for it.

What are we voting on here?

They're going to vote no.

This is the to table it to table.

Yeah.

To table this.

To table it. To bring it back cuz he wants to table it.

No.

Yes.

No. Next thing.

On the next issue, item 3-6.

Um discussion and vote to refer subcommittees of the school committee policy.

Go ahead. Um notice was brought and obviously we've heard the citizens input today and obviously I made my thoughts clear as well and um and what some of the individuals in the input said I really don't see the need.

Um just to provide an example of changing this policy just to provide an example um technology subcommittee there was two items that I had specifically referred to that subcommittee that I wanted to speak on um and I was able to because even though I'm not a member of the committee I wanted to give my input on there um and the meeting went I thought went went fine the technology subcommittee I don't know if anyone

um and as I thought it was just unfortunate the way that meeting went down. I I wish the vice chair didn't leave the meeting. Um I was I had no intention on abusing that policy to a way of commenting on every single item.

However, I think this is important. Um I also heard back from some constituents that there was former school committee members from years past that have used this policy. I believe Mr. Martins was one of them, God rest his soul, was an individual I believe spoke right from the chair and would speak at meetings and um asked questions that he wasn't a member of. Um I don't believe we've had

any issues with this policy. Um so I'm not in favor of it becoming um removing the ability of school committee members from speaking at meetings because we haven't had any issues. And I and again like I just said there is some purpose to having it especially when there's items that are referred where that member is not a member of that subcommittee and and is able to speak.

And I think and one of the inputs made a good made a good um example I believe um and it's true we do um have issue with the length of the meeting sometimes and the more questions at a subcommittee meeting and less questions at the regular meeting. I think there's some validity in that as well. So that's my stance as a member. I yield.

I'm going to touch base on where you just left off. I wish I could say that was true sometimes because then I'd be totally for it. Like let's get the questions answered because I'm really getting tired and it's not even angry.

It makes me kind of sad honestly that I hear comments like, "Oh, they don't want us to ask questions.

They just want to rush through a meeting." Rush through a meeting. I'm leaving at 11:00. I'm not rushing through anything. I want meetings to be effective. I want everybody to be on the top of their game, not nodding out. Not like tapping Bobby. make sure he's up so he taps me because it's 11:00 at night.

I like questions. I think if you don't know something, you should ask. No problem with that. This is the problem I think you're having right now with the other colleagues because sometimes it does happen where we see the email and then we hear it at a subcommittee and then we hear the same thing at the full committee and then we hear it five times at the full committee. It does happen,

Colin. I'm sorry, but it does. I'll give you an example today. prime example.

Forget what we're talking about, but you asked a couple of questions. They were all valid questions. Nothing wrong with the questions, but you prefaced all of them with, I know you already answered this in an email, but then why are you asking it again? I understand. But you get my point. We get a lot of that where a lot of times there's a question that's asked that the person who's asking already knows the

answer to. It's it's just to get a conversation going. Those are the kind of things I think that people have issues with. Those are the kind of things that I think people have problems with. I personally don't have a problem with anybody who wants to show up at a subcommittee meeting who's potty sit down. If there's something on the agenda you want to make a comment about because it may impact something, you say your

piece. That's it. Good. Problem is that doesn't seem to be the way this committee's functioned in the time I've been here. So, it takes something into what could be a 2-hour meeting to then a back and forth between two people that then again that same back and forth is going to take place again for another 30 minutes two weeks from today at a full committee meeting. That's the problem I

have with it. Um, I'm going to vote to to put this forward because I I think just like I do with other things, I don't know how I'm voting on this. When it gets there, maybe I'll vote no because I I'm I like what you're saying and I agree with you. The problem is sometimes it's it's abused. I don't think there's a lot of policies we have to change as you've heard me say

throughout this whole night. So, this is one I don't necessarily think we have to change. I'm going to vote to have it go forward because I want to hear what my colleagues have to say and I understand where they're coming from. And a lot of it is an extreme level of frustration that sometimes it's hard to get the job done. So, I think that's where it's coming from. And I'm not saying this to

be rude. I appreciate you say the citizens, but come on. Like five of those people your friends are one might have been your mother. So I appreciate Come on. You're friends with Come on.

I'm not going to bring up names cuz they're citizens. I'm joking. But your mother does write a lot of cens. God bless her. She should. She's a citizen.

My mother's one of the loudest people in forever. That's great. She should be.

But I'm just saying when you say that it's like we have all these random citizens when really they're people who you communicate with, you know. I mean, come on. Boomer. I'm not going to bring up names of people. The point is, you know, that's true, right? I get the shtick and it's I get it. I get it. it worked to your advantage. But I'm just saying that's not actually what happened. I could also get eight people

to write citizens input for the next meeting talking about how awesome I awesome I am and how everything I say is great. I could do that if I wanted to.

No, I shouldn't because I don't need smoke blown up my but I will say I am going to vote yes because I think that this is a conversation that deserves to be had because of what we dealt with.

But I want you to know it's not that my colleagues don't want to hear what parents have to say. It's not that my colleague doesn't want to hear what you have to say. It's that we want to get things done efficiently. And sometimes when we add all this, it really makes it hard.

But with that, I guilt and I'm with um you've already spoken Mr. D previous did you speak on this?

Has have you spoken on this yet?

Yeah, I just wanted to respond. Well, let him talk.

Oh, you want to I'm sorry, Mr. Thank you. Um, Mr. Das, this this reeks of u control. Um, it it seems to be a controlling uh procedure maybe on your part, but uh but are you did you hear what she had to say in regard to like the del deliberations that go on like questions that have been answered and then redeliberated again and then answered and redeliberated again and the

back and forth that goes and then the arrogance about oh no come the school committee members want to go home you know they don't want to be here that When I hear that coming out of my colleagues, you know, that just that that that's a real bummer to me cuz I didn't that's not what I signed up for this job for. I signed up for this job for the mission of serving public

education properly. And when I know that our meetings go on and on and on like a run-on sentence, okay, it's very frustrating. And it doesn't and and our meetings should be more succinct and more efficient. the process should be more efficient. But it just seems to me that there's an inference, especially on your part, that we're not covering ground properly, that we should be, you

know, more open or more vulnerable to like what the public concerns are. We're extremely vulnerable to what the public concerns are, but it doesn't seem like you recognize the vulnerability of our deliberations on the school board. It seems like you want more each time.

According here's here's a citizen's input list that I know you put together.

The this this is the citizens input that you put together, sir. I did not put this citizens input together for this meeting. I'm the chairman of this policy subcommittee, but you put this citizens input together.

Mr. Chair, I think we should really stick to the to the topic.

Sir, I am sticking to the topic. I am telling you that by having outside outside uh you know you you referred to the late Joe Martins is being uh present at some of the subcommittee meetings that he was not a member of. Uh I remember when I was told in my first term cuz I was concerned too but I was told no this is not your subcommittee you cannot say anything. You could just attend but you

can just do you can't say anything. It's so that we keep the the process efficiently. Then it's going to re it's either going to get referred to full committee for proper vetting or it's going to get denied in subcommittee. And in full committee, you know, we can move it forward and properly vet it, you know. So that's where I'm at too. Um I just see this as an attempt to try to control the deliberations even more.

This is not an attempt to deny the democratic process in our deliberations on my part, but it seems like somebody's trying to get more control over the deliberative process. I'll yield.

Briefly respond to that. And I think it's um just important to realize um what we're actually discussing here. And Mr. P, I um understand and I even agree with some of your concerns.

The what this section is here is to discuss subcommittees of the school committee policy um BDE. I didn't moter this item to come before this committee.

Um I'm not trying to control anything.

Uh this is before us. I don't even know um what the recommendation is here for a change. I believe I don't even know what the the the vice chair wanted it reviewed. I don't even know what her official position is on here. Um, but this wasn't referred by me, so I'm not really, Mr. Chair trying to That's fine. That's fine.

control control anything. I I all I was just trying to say, I believe we should keep the policy as is, which the the policy currently allows school comms right in the policy that school committee members, not members of their respective um subcommittee, can attend and participate in the meeting. And that's my stance is we keep the policy as is. I believe this was a policy um implemented in 2010 2011

um where we had um a good mayor back then. We had um an individual Mr.

Martins.

Come on buddy, don't don't do that.

That's that's gets into the minutia of why people think I wasn't referring but I'm just saying all right where we had again we had again had a mayor who valued citizens input. We had a committee at that time that values citizens input. I believe this was even something that was referred by um MASC.

Um but I think it's just important. I just believe we should keep the policy as is and just to the citizens input. I think I was public on social media that I was inviting members of the public to um submit citizens input. I made a public social media post about it. I I don't see anything wrong with that. I didn't put the list together that individuals signed up voluntarily to

submit a citizen input which is okay and which something we should encourage to give their opinion.

We get you get you get what he's saying.

So I I do but I don't that's all you need to do. Yeah.

Again again again uh Mr. Das again the inference is that we're not stepping up to the table enough. Again, that inference was there. The good mayor in 2011 versus the bad mayor today. That that kind of stuff. We got to keep that stuff off the table because that infers that the entire school b school committee body is limiting deliberation. And we're not.

That's the only point I'm trying to make. We're not limiting deliberation.

Let's move this policy to the full committee and get a fully vetted vote.

Second, if I can just quickly respond, I just want to clarify that was, believe it or not, that was not trying to take a shot at the current mayor. I was just saying back then it was a say that we had a good policy back then. I was that was not a shot at the current mayor. So, I just wish to correct that. I understand how that could come across that.

Absolutely.

No problem. I got you.

We miss speak.

That's a backup technique.

Go ahead, Mr. D.

No.

Mr. Court.

Yes.

Mr. Pro. Yes.

Okay. Uh, next item.

Number four, new business. Uh, Deborah, uh, or Madame Superintendent. Is there any new business at this time?

Yes. Um, I I have one item I just wish to bring up, um, quickly. Um just want to clarify the um the two um and I'm bringing this up in terms of policy. The two um air quality reports that we received were those received this Friday.

You received them on Friday. Yes, we did. Okay. So it's okay. So you received them on I did not. I received them in June.

But we received them this Friday the committee. The committee. Okay. So um so I believe it's fair fair game to open up because within 48 open meeting law hours of the meeting. Is this related to policy or does it I do have a policy related question um because I've asked um prior um I believe we should have um we should have not saying it has to be today but I believe

in the future we need to um look into creating some sort of policy around air quality control. I again I read the two reports and um and as I said in the email I'm just um disturbed and um I just trying to understand how it seems to be a seasonal issue. Um maybe if there is policy we can dedicate more resources to the issue. So that's why I'm bringing up um but however again I

just want to know from the administration. I hope this comes up on full committee because I have a lot more questions um about the two air quality reports that we received because again um I think when it comes to the health and safety of our students, we need to um dedicate all the resources that we can to make sure they're in um well-maintained schools. So that's my opinion. I don't know if you have a is

this something that could be on the um agenda next week as a policy? No.

No. As a um discussion item.

Okay. So here's my thing. Trying to play by the rules here.

Yeah. Is it a policy question? Because that's what we'll discuss here. I the one thing I will say is this. This has nothing to do with seasonal issues. That was we voluntarily participated in a statewide study around asthma in schools which has nothing to do with anything seasonal.

the the testing that was done, the report that was created by the Department of Public Health is not seasonal. It has there would there were no they didn't they weren't looking for I'm assuming you're making a mold reference, but they weren't looking for mold. They didn't do any mold testing.

Um they didn't even do the same testing that they did when we invited them in last year. Totally separate study. Um there is not going to be a policy discussion about this next week.

Um okay, I I was keeping it strictly the policy f but I guess this is a to push back just a little bit. Um the at least one of the reports that I reviewed they they did me reference mold in the report. They took pictures and referenced them as mold and it seems to be at least the mold seems to be I believe what you're talking about is a picture of a refrigerator that around

the casing had some like mildew around it. I actually spoke to the department of public health today after you sent um complaints to the state about our schools. So I contacted them to ask them how does this work? Department of Public Health gave us a report. You then reported us back to the Department of Education.

There is Was there an issue with that, Superintendent?

Well, you the state gave us a report and then you reported us to the state.

She I think she's stating facts.

So that's So no, I don't have an issue.

I look at the camera and say I don't have an issue. I don't have an issue with it. What I have an issue with is a misrepresentation because by I mean I could show you the notes that I took that on the telephone.

They're not alarmed.

They they they words that were um we were reiterated today when I spoke like typ this is typical of what we're seeing in schools across the state. Typical. No red flags.

They gave us recommendations that right at the bottom say that these are like just general recommendations that we would suggest across all schools. So share this within your district. This was an asthma study.

We participated in a study. They thanked me profusely for participating. Said my goodness like nothing that we wrote was meant to cause alarm. Um I you know we we need schools to participate. We're happy you participated. We hope you found our recommendations helpful.

Superintendent uh one the picture said as you just mentioned said said mold and refrigerator of a refrigerator.

Exactly. That's that's a cause for concern for this member.

Oh, okay. Thank you.

Well, you can make a I mean I honestly I honestly think that of course this is a concern, right?

First question, just random question. Do we do air control checks just like we have carbon monoxide detectors? Anything else we do like to check air quality?

Yeah, we do um just curious general testing right?

Okay. When you're looking at scientific data, I don't know if you I don't know if you really think that there's any surface that's 100% germ or mold-free cuz there's not. I would I can go into your house that I'm sure is very well cleaned and I you're still going to find things.

It's not my room. Well, maybe not your room, but you're still going to find things. So, I think maybe hold back a little bit and let's let's take a deeper dive into that report because I don't think there's anything that's concerning here.

Madam Superintendent, did you say that you were on the phone today with the Department of Public Health, DPH?

No. Yeah.

Just today you you were vetting that issue with DPH today. Mr. Das, we are governed by Department of Public Health.

We are governed by the department of mental health. We are governed by the uh department of education desi.

We are governed by mass general laws and we are also governed by mother nature. And and in in the heat of the summer there are going to be little flareups of mold issues in our buildings.

The inference on your part though, sir, for this item of new business is that we're not doing our part. That's exactly how you came across on this item. And I couldn't disagree with you further.

We're maintaining our buildings. We have a brand new high school. That's a state of the art. That's a model for the rest of the Commonwealth to look at and see.

Look at that structure. It's it's it's it's a beautiful edifice. We care about our buildings. We care about the health of our buildings. We had a bad summer last summer. And I think that this is an inference that we're not following up to the issues that presented themselves a year ago, but I believe we are. And we have um Mr. Pico here with us right now.

And I know that he's been working really, really hard to remediate these issues that present themselves. So again, the inference is that we're not doing our job where I'm telling you straight up, I know we are. That's I'll yield.

Very briefly respond. Um, and again, I would encourage you if you haven't already to read both reports.

Sure.

And I believe they are I believe some some of the information there is a cause for concerning share recommendations that were made. I mean, I'll say that we're not there isn't a policy implement um implication, but I will as part of my superintendent report. It's on the agenda. I am going to share um the recommendations that were made by the DPH and also the concerns that were shared

um by various educators in the in the last week. Um and just the fact that this who with whom were they shared? the yourself and the committee when I I I suppose we um it was at FOSCA and we um cleaned up a classroom and then before a test allegedly I'm not Was this an email this had I'm not getting into a particular it was yes we are doing um some testing on at the

request of an educator okay yep yep yep okay yes all I'm asking and Miss Pereira mentioned it that we dive deeper and just do a full report to keep the the public educated and also as this one member I love to see the MO report from FOSCA as well just to make sure there's nothing of concern there. All I'm trying to say is if there are issues that need to be addressed just bring them before

the committee. So, as I just said, it's nothing more important than making sure there are no issues of mold within our schools. And I'm a full player in helping the administration make sure there is no issues of air quality within our schools.

I just want to clarify what I said and then we'll end quick. When I said you do a deep dive into what's going on, I was referring to you, Mr. Das, not to the superintendent. What I mean by that is I know you read the report and it's like, "Oh my god, there are things wrong."

It's like if I did your blood work, you'd be abnormal, abnormal, I'm dying.

No, you're not. It's fine. I'm saying do a deeper dive into what those numbers look like and what the recommendations were. And I think you're going to realize that this is not what you're making it out to be. But anyway, motion to No, I'm sorry. As chair, I'm going to have the final comment.

Deeper dive means, you know, micromanagement. I'm sorry, Mr. disas but the people in place here managing our school district are wholly competent ethical and moral I'll state that again they're wholly competent wholly ethical and wholly moral because our mission is advocacy for teachers and students and their well-being and I think we carry that out extremely well with that I'll

make a motion to uh adjourn the meeting Mr. Das yes Mr. record.

Yep.

Miss Per.

Yes.