8.18.2026 Historical Commission

Okay, good evening everyone.

The Fore River Historic Commission will hold an in-person and Zoom meeting in the Lower Council Room at the Fore River Government Center today, Tuesday, August 18th, starting at 6 PM to discuss the following agenda items.

Pursuant to the Open Meeting Law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unperceived, by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

This evening we have Commissioner Ken Shagdak on my right.

We have Co-Chair Commissioner Jonathan Lema on my right.

And we have Commissioner Joyce Rodericks.

Commissioner Connie Soule is officially out this evening.

She's got another commitment.

And we see Caroline Aubin and Commissioner Ryan Klein are not here at this point.

So I will convene the meeting.

So let us begin.

Uh, would I like to have any open meeting law notices?

No, we do not.

Roll call.

Ken.

Ken Shattuck here.

Jonathan Lima, present.

Joyce Rodzick, present.

And Rick Mancini, present.

Uh, could I have an approval of the minutes?

These were the July 21st minutes.

Motion to approve.

Second.

And approved and seconded.

And we take a vote on that.

Ken, would he— yes.

Jonathan?

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick Mancini?

Yes.

Do we have any citizens' input this evening?

None.

Alrighty, well, first on the agenda, the young ladies, we have a notice for demolition of stairs and construction.

Would you just come up on the table please and, and present to us what you've got?

I will say that this is short notice, uh, Commissioners.

What happened is this was all, uh, I happened to be walking by and spoke to the young ladies on Wednesday, I believe.

And this has been transpiring, so it's less than a week, and we have no official data to send to you at this point, but they're going to explain what they're doing and what they're proposing to do.

And this is 529 High Street.

It's in the 40C District.

Okay, ladies, would you just give your name and address, full name and addresses?

Street.

Okay.

Mary Beth Bulio, 529 High Street.

Okay, and proceed.

Okay, so, um, we are correcting a major error with brick stairs that are a hazard.

They're a tripping hazard, um, and restoring back to what it was in the midst of major repairs.

To the woodwork and whatnot.

We've restored everything accurately.

We've had it custom milled for all the trim work.

The stairs were going to wait, but we don't— we can't wait any longer.

The building inspector came by yesterday and said that they have to be replaced because they are a hazard.

So I did not know that we needed to have diagrams of what's going on with the stairs.

We're replacing brick that was added at some point in time and putting wood back.

And the wood that we're using is mahogany.

There'll be mahogany treads.

We have a contractor that may or may not be known to you here in the city, but he is a licensed contractor.

And that's it, basically.

Do you want me to show the picture?

Are those treads going to be painted or stained?

Mahogany will be stained.

The, the back will be painted.

At least that's the plan.

This is an AI rendering, so it's not 100% accurate.

They changed some of the details on there, but the stairs are pretty much accurate.

Those are not the original rails.

It's an AI.

I put my picture of the house in and asked them to take the brick stairs out and put wood stairs in.

So you're going to reproduce what's on the picture here?

For the stairs, yes.

Stairs.

How about the railings?

The railings are already there.

So, um, so just the treads?

Um, the treads and the— just the stair treads?

Yeah, pretty much.

The, you know, it'll be wooden stair treads.

You're replacing the whole structure, the risers, the treads, everything?

Um, not the— there's a granite, uh, first step, and it's odd, they— AI took it out of there, but there's a granite first step that will be the risers, the tread and the risers.

Correct.

You're replacing both of those?

Yes.

Okay.

And you're doing it— what's the dimension?

I guess I don't understand the dimension of it.

You're doing it in-kind as was existing?

Yes.

And it was existing original in the original house?

Yes.

But at some point in time, someone put brick in.

And when we repaired the brick, wasn't done well.

That also you're removing the brick stairs and risers.

Yes.

I will say that the brick stairs are disproportionate.

We've got— might have an 11-inch rise at the start.

And the upper rise is no more than 4 inches.

And at this point, it's uneven.

It is, it is a tripping hazard.

It's atrocious.

It was done about 2 and a half years ago.

And the railings are attached.

To the— currently to the brick?

No, they're not attached to the brick.

They're attached to the railings on the top of the porch.

And then they are— the posts are actually in front of the granite.

It's a disastrous— well, I think the concept, it's just with the details.

I mean, the concept, I think, I think the concept is obviously you're trying to replace them back to the original.

Right.

We just probably need the details, the dimensional details, and just a little more meat.

Right.

Yeah, again, there's no dispute that the brick is not original, so taking the brick out is not— it's encouraged.

I wonder if there's any kind of— I don't know if there's a photograph of what was there before the brick, or— we haven't found what in-kind is.

We haven't found one that's— we've looked.

But so that's where we would need the dimension.

What you're doing is great.

We just need to know that we have to have something in writing that says you are doing this.

And then we're saying we approve this.

And as simple as that, but it would take some dimensional— Yeah, and time is of the essence because the building inspector was called yesterday and came out and said you have to replace these, you cannot leave these like this.

We're in kind of a quandary here also.

I was by there on my way down, and this column is already moved over, so there's going to be some sort of a change here.

Because that is where the column was.

I know, I'm just stating a fact that it's been moved so that this rendering is not the way that the finished product is going to be.

Yes, there's a lot of things that are not accurate on this rendering.

The column on the left was originally over to the left.

Also, is it not an issue with the side stair?

Also?

Yes.

But that is just being repaired.

There's no structural changes.

The stairs themselves are concrete.

The steps are concrete, they're staying.

All it is is replacing the rotting boards.

Yeah, that's it.

Is that looking at the home?

Is that to the right?

It's to the left, the driveway.

The actual address is 529/531, which is tenant's entrance.

And that's what you're talking about.

It's just the boards there.

But nothing is being changed other than being repaired.

We're repairing everything because we want it to look good.

Okay.

Do you have anybody that can give us dimensional— I mean, kind of a sheet or drawing?

Can you grab my phone for me?

I'm going to text my contractor.

Really a beautiful home.

We're trying to make it— not yet.

It's not there yet.

Those are the colors and everything we We picked that up yesterday.

Well, we ordered it, and those are the colors.

So cross fingers.

We're hoping that it looks.

This is important piece.

And the inside is we still have a lot in the inside that's original.

In all fairness, and to be perfectly to read this correctly, I just received the letter just at this just now.

And it's dated August 18th, and it's from Frank Calario.

And what he's doing is he's citing CMR 780, which is a legal enforcement of a building inspector to declare an area unsafe.

Such as the police department, when that was declared.

When an inspector declares and uses this particular CMR, and this is CMR 121.0, which is that particular section, what it does is it gives the building inspector authority, and which overrides the historical commission.

It overrides any other authority.

So, the 4160 In reality, we have just been overridden by the building department.

I still would like to tell you the dimensions and, you know, let you know what's going on.

We want to just get them done.

And we want to make it so it's back.

How long has it been in this condition?

A little— a couple of years ago, we had someone repair the stairs.

And they did an atrocious job.

They took the money and they ran.

These are stairs you're using, you're using daily.

I try not to use them.

We go out the side, go out the side.

And we don't— anybody who comes, I usually keep flowers stacked on the side.

No one else will go.

We have 2 other entrances.

Yeah, we don't.

I'm petrified someone's going to hit that last step and take a digger.

This, this might have to be— this might have to be a compromise of sorts.

Please give me your input.

Maybe we could ask that we get some drawings, get the contractor to do some rough sketches, get that drawn up, so that we can get it out to all of you to take a look and see what's actually going on with that.

Maybe get a correct sketch of what's happening with the movement of the column, what's going to be finished, wood railing and how that's going to be done.

What kind of railing are being utilized?

It's going to be the same railing that was there.

We're just putting it back correctly.

Is it the same railing that's on the rest of the porch?

Yes.

Yes.

So you have the railing?

Yes.

Here, there's a railing.

We're just replacing it.

You're not replacing with new material?

You're using the existing railing?

No, the only thing is the stairs.

Yeah, the railings are staying the same.

And that column, when the, when, um, the porch was repaired, they moved the column because they couldn't replicate something, and we moved it back.

If you look at that stone step, the granite step, that porch was much wider than it is.

Well, we want to restore it to that.

That's why that column is pushed over, because the original was— your original staircase was probably additional— if I'm thinking correctly, an additional 3-foot wider, maybe even more, is now if you look at the granite stoop.

So I just talked to the contractor earlier today, and he said these stairs need to be wider because it's so— we centered with the door, and that's what we're doing.

We want it to be wider.

We want it to be whatever it was before.

So that's why I just asked him for the dimensions, because I mean, it didn't make sense with the granite step.

Nothing.

You're using the existing granite?

Yes.

Yes.

And it centers.

If you look at the front of the house, you have the 2 pillars that are— will be now the distance they're supposed to be from each other, and the midpoint is exactly in the middle of the door.

So, it's the way that I think that the house originally was.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

These stairs are— even the concrete apron here is disproportionate to the actual dimensions.

But this porch, if you look at the granite, it doesn't show here, but there's a piece of granite and it extends to the left about 3 feet.

And then it would rise, and this second column here This column here, at present it's moved over, I would say, about 3 feet to match where the original was back.

Yeah, you could still see the impression when it was matching the original set of stairs.

So someone moved that over, extended the rail, and then total distance 1 mile and built something for flowers that doesn't— you can look and see that the granite that they use isn't real granite.

I think it's kind of like made to look like granite, but it's really cement.

So that's coming out.

We want it to go back to whatever it was.

We knew that the pillar needed to be moved over.

And it was my contractor who said, you know, you need to make these stairs wider.

This doesn't make sense that the stairs are the way they are.

So is your contractor able to give us a dimension?

Sure, that's it.

He's texting me as we speak.

We just— we have him.

He's there now.

And then we need to fix the stairs.

A letter of appropriateness?

Or in, in this case, with this mailing, uh, I think we'll need a letter of, uh, non-applicability.

But we could put with that some stipulations or some suggestions, uh, that maybe we get some dimensional components or material list of what's going in there.

And, we're pretty much— So, the letter of non-applicability, that just basically says that we are agreeing with the building inspector's analysis of the situation as it relates to the law.

And, what if we didn't provide that?

What if we just— the applicants gave us the dimensional issues we were asking for, and everything, and we just take it, register it, approve it?

Yeah, I don't think that's an issue.

If we want to approve it, sure.

Why not?

Yeah, I don't think that is an issue.

The letter, the CMR 780, supersedes any authority that we have on this particular project.

That does not mean that we have to not approve.

We can approve, if the board sees fit, we can approve the suggested modifications.

We can do that.

With some written dimension.

Well, that's what I was starting to suggest, that we get some sort of a, in the next few days, we get some specifics.

Onto the type of material that's being used, the width of the porch, things of that nature.

You know, all the dimensional requirements of the porch.

Because, see, rolling over on a situation like this, that could be habitual.

And if the building inspector says, we worry, we don't have a role in it, then what does that leave the applicant to do?

Pull up a bad contractor who can get something done quickly and do something quick and dirty.

And, and that just seems to me to be not a good choice because that could be an habitual thing.

This is the second time I've seen that here in just 2 months.

No, I mean, I guess there's a point of order to your original point.

Um, a letter of non-applicability that does not in any way, shape, or form indicate with the conclusion of the building inspector.

It just recognizes a lack of legal application to this board, right?

Which, whether we agree with its utilization of that clause or not, it is legally the case that our opinion is not applicable to this project at this point.

Well, in that case, I would just say then that's the deal.

That's the end of it.

Good luck to you.

Well, I will assure you, I've been guiding you, then apparently there's nothing— God, there's nothing— God, if this, this is the last word, there's nothing guiding you from putting in pressure-treated boards.

Well, we're not happy.

I know you're not.

We're lucky you're not.

Yeah, very much.

The situation were different, we would— No, we want to— No, we want to make it— we want to make it what the porch itself is mahogany, so the stair treads are going to be mahogany.

We want to widen it so it matches essentially what is the floor plan based on the, um, the dimensions of everything, where are the centers and, and that granite.

Um, and obviously we don't need— because I'm going to break out that cement walkway and put in a new walkway— we don't need approval for that, correct?

Because that's not structural.

We're not going to do that now.

Because I have to, I have to hire somebody else.

40C says as long as it is not substantially above grade, and that is not.

Okay, it's almost flush with the grade, so the concrete apron can be changed.

Yeah.

Yes, that's the, the walkway.

Yes, that was done incorrectly as well.

Yes, it was.

Rest assured that I'm going to call Boston tomorrow because, uh, just out of curiosity.

The police station is an entirely different situation.

That was condemned, the building's coming down.

But, where the stairs have been there for 2 and a half years.

And, one thing is a danger to the public, another thing is a danger to someone on their private property.

Especially if there's an alternative entrance.

Yes.

And, that's right, and there is an alternative entrance.

So, I'm going to talk to Mike Stein tomorrow.

Not that we're disagreeing, I'm just, it's an issue that we, here at the board, because what Ken just brought up is very true.

All right, if we're going to, if we're constantly going to get this 780 application, or 121-6 CMR, then what are we doing?

Why are we here?

I understand that.

I just want the Alderman to know that we, We want to make it look right.

And we appear to be very lucky in the sense that maybe we want to just get done what we need to get done and have the house look just like that and have the— not be going on soon in the neighborhood.

This has been a long process for us.

She's, she's, she's a teacher and been out all summer and all we've done is the house.

Been there, please.

Been there.

Now we've lost parts of the roof.

During the blizzard.

The roof is new too.

There's a serious issue here also because city ordinance 41— 40C is state and federal, and it's also applicable to the city, but the city has its own adjunct to that, and, and that would be Chapter 38, and Section 155 says alterations and construction prohibited without a certificate.

Except as this article provides, no building or structure or part thereof within the district shall be constructed or altered in any way that affects the exterior architectural features as visible from a public way unless the commission shall first have issued a certificate with respect to such construction or alterations.

Part B of that says no building permit for construction of a building or structure or the alterations of an exterior architectural feature, which the stairs would be, within the district.

And no demolition permit for demolition or removal of a building or structure within a district shall be issued by the city or any department thereof until a certificate as required under this article has been issued by the commission.

That is Chapter 38 of the city ordinances.

So we got— and this, by the way, is a letter that was written by myself when these ladies had that leaky roof and we were working to get the roof repaired.

And this was a letter of— That was from the strong.

Of appropriateness, exactly.

And this is just a copy I printed up.

Uh, well, what's the, uh, what's the, uh, board?

Well, I think that feelings— if we are— if we accept that we're out of it, then we just ask that the applicant give us— just give us some dimension for our records.

I will.

We will.

We'll give you everything that we talked about.

We have no problem.

If you have an email, I'll send it to you.

No, you send it all to, to Felicia.

Or you send it to, uh, F. Parker or F at the Fall River— you know the email for the city here— at fallriver.gov.

So it's F. Parker, F. Parker at fallriverma.gov.

Okay, okay.

Or you could spell her name out and send it up to her directly.

Okay.

Okay, that's where it should go, and then she'll distribute it to us.

Okay, so, well, we're going to have to take a vote on this.

If we're voting to— oh, to, uh, are we consenting to all of the work?

Is that what we're saying, to— we're consenting?

We should be taking some sort of a vote, I think, just to cover ourselves.

So what we're saying is we're in favor of— I, I, I, I love the idea of restoring this house, and at face value, I think you're doing it in good spirit.

I just don't know that there's any real substance here to vote on.

Okay, what am I voting to approve?

I don't know how wide the stairs are.

I don't know the— I don't know.

And we have another alternative, and that would be to table this and bring it up at our next meeting where we can discuss when we get this material.

Undoubtedly, you're going to— we can't— we can't— that's not the point.

You're already free to do this.

Okay, building inspector, this is on your end.

You can do what you want to do.

All right.

Because you're legally enabled to.

Okay, so then we'll just get that for you.

What we're trying to do now is we're trying to cover our bases and make things applicable and legally correct.

Okay.

Okay.

All right.

That's what we're trying to do here on this board because this is an unusual situation.

This is very— I've been on this board since 2009, and I don't ever remember running into something like this.

Sorry.

So, and Joyce has been here a long time also, so we're just trying to hold things in the most legal fashion.

All right, and, uh, if we want to have a motion to table this discussion, I'll make a motion to table until the September meeting.

Okay, do we have a second?

Okay, we have a first and a second.

We have a vote.

Ken?

Yes.

John?

Yes.

Yes.

And Rick Mancini?

Yes.

Okay, well, it's tabled according to the letter from the building inspector, which I'll be calling Frank in the morning to find out what happened because, you know, just what's going on.

And but it appears at this point that you can go along with your construction.

I would, I would hope that you keep us in the loop to make sure that we can, you know, you're right in the neighborhood of 2 homes across the street that have just, you know, changed their— put themselves right back to the time when they were built, the beautiful job.

And I'm assuming, not assuming, I know that you're working towards that end yourselves.

I guess if you could just send us data, keep us informed, keep us— yes, we will.

All right.

And, and remember, what you're doing is you're doing stairs.

Any renovations or changes to the structure, you've got to come before the board.

Okay.

Okay, so this gets you by on this one, but if you're doing future— we're not doing anything else.

Yeah, we're done.

Yeah.

Except for those— the walkway and the landscaping now.

Okay, well, okay, keep all set.

Send us as much data as you can.

We will.

Good luck.

Thank you.

Send that to Felicia.

She, she was— she called this afternoon.

She, she's having an issue, uh, but, you know, she'll be in tomorrow.

Okay, good.

We'll have him draw up or whatever, give you your measurements.

Tell him we would— what he's— he's a contractor.

What we're looking for is a good set of construction drawings.

We don't need them, we don't need architectural design, but a good set of construction drawings on that porch and railing and what they intend to do, and on that side, because that's also visible from the street.

That is just purely replacing everything that's rotted.

Gotcha.

We'll do it.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Have a good night.

Thank you guys.

Okay, folks.

All right.

Hopefully it'll get a little lighter here.

All righty.

We're we're going to be working.

Working on letters of support this evening.

This is that go-around.

And we have a Mr. Joel Solomon.

Is that Joel?

Good.

Would you come forward and maybe just state your name also and your address for us, please, for the record?

Hello everyone, my name is Joel Solomon.

I'm the senior project manager for Parallel Products.

We're based out of New Bedford, Massachusetts.

We're a local real estate developer.

We've done commercial work in the greater New Bedford area.

We've recently moved into the great city of Fall River.

I myself lived here for the past few years.

Pull the speaker a little so that we can get the listening audience involved.

Thank you.

Sure.

Can you hear me now?

Yes.

Um, so I'm joined by Michael LaFlash.

He's our historic consultant with Epsilon Associates.

I will be calling on him for a Couple things, if you guys have any questions.

I sent a package to Felicia, sent her site plans, sent her the project scope because we are currently in the process of submitting historic tax credits both at federal and state level.

The reason we are here today is we are looking for the Commission's support as we go into our round for state tax credits.

So, okay.

And we did get your, your, your packet.

Wonderful.

It was mailed out to everyone.

Sure.

Unfortunately, I don't know what's happened, but everyone did receive, uh, the packet.

And Felicia has given us a little condensed version with a drawing of some of the floor plans.

Sure.

And very, very nice package, by the way, that you did give us.

And I drove down there the other day and took another good look.

It's been a while since I've been in that area.

But yeah, I see we're putting in a lot of single-family homes.

Is that part of your project?

That's actually not part of our project.

That's an entirely separate developer.

Yeah, we are only involved with the Charlton Mill at 109 House Street.

So the plan, the plan is to do a full residential conversion.

Um, I believe it'll be 147 apartment units, mix of 1-bedroom, 2-bedrooms, and a few 3-bedroom units.

Residential will be on all 3 floors of the mill, including the, including the bump-out that you can see.

Um, the building where the chimney is will actually be a recreational room and building, event space, stuff like that.

The plan is, and how we've developed it so far, is to keep the full historic value of the building.

So the granite facade will not be changed or anything.

It'll look like it did when it was built in 1912, or at least that's the plan.

All the windows are going to be replaced back to that full size.

It'll pretty much be a wall of, uh, wall of glass like the old building.

Wow.

Uh, the back, a lot of the windows were blocked up, uh, and that'll be all removed and replaced with windows.

All the original openings will be used for, uh, for the new windows.

Yeah.

And, uh, the stack is staying.

That's commendable.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, yeah.

Keep the old look.

Okay, reminds everybody.

Good.

And it doesn't show— the rendering, I don't believe, shows any solar panels.

But I think there was talk of solar panels on the roof.

There is talk of solar panels on the roof.

So we're in the process of permitting.

And a big part of that is the sightline from the street.

So we've had our architects and engineers do quite a few studies from the road to make sure that You know, the sightline from House Street and even Broadway, you actually wouldn't be able to see the solar panels.

So, we've been able to push them far enough towards the center of the roof that you won't see anything.

The only— they do show in this drawing here, there's a little bump-out building.

We tried to get rid of that building because it doesn't have much use, very low ceilings.

But the compromise that we came up with is we were able to leave the— leave 3 walls of that building.

So from the street, you can see it.

And then what we're going to build a carport, parking carport with solar panels as the roof.

So it'll be covered parking.

Okay.

Well, that's good.

That leaves a structure there too.

Leaves the structure there.

Yep.

And again, the solar panels will actually be below the roofline.

So you wouldn't be able to see them from the street either.

Now, is there an additional building going on the— I guess it would be the west side of the property?

Yep.

So if you look down towards the bottom of the site plan, there will be a new ground-up construction going there.

It's an additional additional 68 units going there.

I don't have a rendering of that.

Could you give a little description of what that's going to look like?

So I was, I was getting to that.

If I did, if I did have a rendering of it with me, the plan is to mimic the look of the original building.

So we will— of the original, of the mill?

Of the mill itself, yeah.

We don't want it to look out of place.

I know even just driving around, driving around most of the cities nowadays, there's a lot of apartment buildings.

I don't mind modern architecture, but sometimes it doesn't fit.

I think a modern building in this parking lot wouldn't really fit too well either.

So the plan is to at least try our best to mimic the granite facade of the original mill.

It's nearly impossible to find massive blocks of granite now and build things out of it, but we can, we can do our best to make it not look out of place.

So just ask about— did I— I don't think I heard, or maybe I missed it— what's happening with the chimney?

Chimney's staying.

Chimney's going to stay?

Chimney's going to stay.

It's in good condition.

It's in good enough condition.

We're gonna have to repoint it a little bit.

But yeah, it's gonna stay.

It'll be easier to keep it and repoint it than it would be to knock it down right now.

And I don't think the National Parks Association— violating the Secretary of the Interior standards— yeah, wouldn't work well.

No, no.

So good.

You know, and a big part of this project is the support from the National Parks Association, the commission here, um, these tax credits make it possible because otherwise this is a borderline insurmountable task for most real estate developers.

And we need these credits in order to, in order to move forward, keep the ball rolling.

So, okay.

Yeah, the, the information that you sent us, uh, is extremely informative.

Yeah, it's pretty comprehensive.

Uh, very much so.

You can thank my, my friend Michael on the screen.

Yeah, that was really good.

Very impressive.

Uh, thank you so much for that.

Uh, when is the project going to start?

So we're looking to start— realistic date now?

A realistic date, we're looking to start first or second quarter of, um, '27.

Okay, so And a lot of this is pending tax credit approval.

Like I said, it's about a $50 million conversion.

So, you know, if we can, if we can pull 20% back in, you know, federal, federal tax credits and another 20 from the state, now it makes it a realistic job.

So that's, that's the plan, all pending approval.

But Michael tells me we look like we're in pretty good shape for that.

So good.

Good.

Yeah.

What is in there now?

Right now?

So we cleared the building out.

We bought it about 3 years ago.

It came vacant, which was nice.

Is there equipment in there?

So I'm renting it right now as just warehouse space for a couple companies.

I have a company that just stores washers and dryers in there.

Nothing crazy.

We did We completely gutted the interior, got all the, uh, get all the old equipment.

It was at one point, um, a company called Reflect, I believe.

They were a lighting manufacturer.

So when we took over, it wasn't even the— wasn't the original use of textile.

So all the textile equipment was gone, pawned off or wherever it went.

But there was a lot of like tables and things like that left.

We had to do a full abatement, get all the asbestos out, all the the lead paint.

We've since sandblasted and painted some of the interior just to, just to get a look at what the natural wood looks like.

Came out pretty good, but there hasn't been any, any major construction, and there's no, there's no real large tenants at the moment.

So just have a suggestion.

Sure.

With other mill construction rehabs that I'm aware of, yeah, I'm thinking of the Knitting Mill Apartments.

They restored some of the equipment, so if there is equipment in that building, I mean, but they had, they had knitting machines restored so that when you come into the building, you get a sense of the history of what went on in the building.

So you have exactly that.

You come into the building, you see this display, and then when you come down the hallway, there are photographs of your building, the one that you just covered, this kind of display of what the Charlton Mill was all about.

And maybe a little bit of information about E.P.

Charlton himself, which is the reason why he built the mill.

So if there's something in there that is possibly able to be restored, you know, it might be— look at it a little bit differently and see if there's an interest in focusing on what actually happened in that mill.

You know, as I say, it's only the kind of thing that you'd have as you come in.

It doesn't take a lot of room, but it does give you a sense of continuity and the history behind the building.

Yeah, sure.

No, we definitely, um, we actually, we have some old elevator wheels that are left over.

We did plan on putting those on display.

Um, the old, the old sliding doors that are separating, separating the floors, we plan on— we won't be using them, but we're going to keep them in the building and hang.

I have found some old photos since we started this project, so that is, uh, that's something that we have had in mind.

Trying to at least preserve some of the— well, like I said, what have you seen?

Have you seen any spinning equipment?

Nothing?

Like I said, nothing like that.

Yeah, because it was a former business before, you know, for years, probably 40 years before we even took over.

And sadly, they got rid of a lot of stuff.

And I mean, similar to one of our other projects that we have in New Bedford, we, we took over the old Sunbeam Bread building.

In New Bedford, restored it.

And we're going to be doing something similar as well.

But by the time we got in there, there was no memorabilia left.

All the signs are gone.

It was completely looted down to the copper wire.

So, you know, anything else?

Make a motion to provide a letter of support.

Okay, we have a second.

Okay, take a vote.

Yes.

John, leave me yes.

Yes.

And Rick Mancini?

Yes.

Perfect.

Okay, we'll be getting the letter out within a couple of days.

Yep.

Uh, just an aside, we have what's called Historic Society in Fall River.

Are you familiar with them?

Yep.

Okay, because they would probably have photos.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I definitely need to, uh, I definitely need to go check them out, grab some photos.

But we'd love to.

That'd be perfect for the hallways.

There's going to be so much dead space.

I mean, I've lived in a a mill complex before.

So, you know, without the photos or anything like that, kind of becomes a little bland.

So I just throw out another thing because I'm the historian here, so I have to dig deep.

I don't know if you're aware, E.P.

Charlton is the founder of the Five and Tens.

I'm not aware.

In Fall River, and eventually merged with Woolworth and became a multi-millionaire.

Sure.

But even if you didn't have the equipment, there's a story there, you know.

There's a big story there.

Yeah.

About his influence in the city.

Yeah, of course.

I mean, we'd be happy to— happy to work with you guys and the Historical Society to move this along.

It's definitely going to be a while.

Well, it's not going to happen overnight, you know.

I'm noticing your construction date back in '29, so that's going to give you a few years here.

That's what I'm saying.

So this probably won't be the last time you hear from me.

That's good.

Keep us informed.

Keep us in the loop.

On occasion, we might request a visit, a site visit, and take a look and see what's going on.

By all means.

And you'll be here for a while on a regular 3-month basis looking for your tax credits.

Well, he was a big philanthropist too.

Yeah.

Huge philanthropist in the city in terms of medical as well as building business and mills.

So, uh, there's a big story there on his support to the Truesdale Hospital.

Um, like I said, there's, there's quite a story.

It's quite a story on that gentleman.

Of course, the E.P.

Charlton Business, uh, School at UMass Dartmouth.

Yeah, sure.

There's another one.

Yeah, Joyce, I think we're going along.

All right, Joe, thank you so, so much for your time, guys.

Yeah, no problem.

If you have any questions, please, please reach out to me.

I'd be happy to give you guys any additional— like, like in kind, you've been dealing with Felicia, so don't hesitate to just give her an email at any time at all, and it'll get out to us and we'll respond.

Sure.

Good.

Thanks again, Joe.

Have a good week.

Okay, thank you, guys.

Next on the agenda is Ryan LLC.

Do we have Erica available or up?

Oh, we got Emily.

Yeah, I'm here.

Emily, would you— we have new, uh, commissioners here.

Could you give us your name and your address, please?

Hi, I'm Emily Dominiani with Ryan.

We're located at One International in Boston.

Okay, well, welcome aboard, Emily.

It's nice to see you again.

You as well.

Thanks.

You want to just go through these one at a time?

Just give us an update on, uh, Sanford Spinning.

Sure.

Um, so this project, um, I spoke with the owner last week.

Um, you know, the main thing with this is just that it's it's a big project, um, and they, they need a runway to get the funding.

Um, we're— we've been acquiring credits for a few years, but we still have always a lot of allocations to go before they're close to their full 20%.

Um, but they have applied for HDIP funding and should be hearing back on that in the coming weeks.

So hopefully, um, we can start construction once, you know, that additional funding is secured.

What's a tentative— or assume a tentative date for this construction?

If you have any windows left in the building.

I was by there the other day.

I don't— boy, those— that glass is all destroyed.

Yeah, well, I don't think they have an exact start date yet.

I know that they want to get started as soon as, as soon as they can.

But I think at this point, it would probably be earliest beginning of next year.

Okay.

All right.

Any questions on Sanford Spinning Mill?

From the board?

None.

All right, would you like to go into the Algonquin Mills, describe that a little bit?

Um, so that's a newer project, and we just got NPS conditional approval for the building, which is a good start.

That means the work, um, is approved, and we're hoping to get for our first allocation from the state in, in August.

Um, so no, no real updates, but all good things in terms of the tax credit process on that project.

Okay, uh, no questions.

Do we want to, uh, go to the third one and then vote on the 3 all simultaneously, or do you want to take them independently?

I think we can take them together.

Okay, how about the Horton Building, uh, Emily?

Similarly, that was a new project for us last round, and the project received NPS conditional approval We submitted an amendment with everything that they had asked for, and so we're hoping to get a full clean, um, okay from that amendment, and then we'll be ready to start on that one.

And then also hoping to get the first allocation in August when we hear back for that state round.

That Horton Building, I guess heading, heading north, there's a very narrow building attached to that.

Is that part of the Horton Complex, 3 of those properties?

There are 2 prop— 2 separate properties.

There's 152 North Main and 162 North Main that will both be projects, but we have not submitted an application for 162 yet.

I'm still working on the drawings.

Okay, so that will be a future project.

Okay.

All right, good.

So, but it will eventually be part of the construction project for, for that complex as a whole?

Yeah, they have the same owner, so they'll be doing both parts of it once they get the approvals.

Okay, good.

Any questions Questions?

Do we have a motion?

I'll make a motion to provide letters of support with regards to Sanford Spinning Mill, Algonquin Mills, and Horton Building.

Do we have a second?

I second that.

Okay, take a vote.

Uh, yes.

Jonathan Lima, yes.

Joyce Roderick, yes.

Rick Mancini, yes.

Okay, Emily, thank you so much for presenting and have yourself a nice day.

Is your son in bed tonight?

He's usually out there on your lap.

We haven't heard him this evening.

I know.

I have someone watching him today.

He tried to sneak in here, but— All right.

Okay, enjoy the rest of your week.

Thank you so much for presenting.

Bye-bye.

Okay, ready to move on.

The next is Heritage Consulting Group, Nathan Kerwin.

Good evening, Nathan.

Good evening, gentlemen and ladies.

Could you just give us your name and your group?

Sure.

Yep.

Heritage Consulting Group.

Um, and make her one.

Okay, uh, I guess we'll just go down the line here.

Uh, on— we could start at 135 Alden Street.

Give us a little explanation of where you are and how it's progressing.

Sure.

So I believe I mentioned before, so we got new architects on the project, uh, earlier this year, and so we address conditions in relation— outstanding conditions in relation to the state application and subsequent federal application.

And we received a federal Part 2 conditional approval earlier this year and are just wrapping up final loose ends on the state application so that we can start accruing allocations for the project.

Okay.

Are there any questions on that?

That, uh, the, uh, now there were what, 400 units going into that complex?

Yeah, a lot.

Yeah, I think it sounds about right.

Yeah, yeah, it's a big one.

And, and construction, you think, will begin?

Uh, not for a while, um, because since it's such a big project, and like I said, received new architects earlier this year, so we were finally able to start addressing some of the outstanding conditions and requests for the state application.

So hopefully we'll start to accrue allocations for, for this past round back that was submitted in April of 2026.

Um, so once we start accruing allocations, then likely be a while before we can really start.

So you're looking at another 12 months, 6 months?

Uh, I can, I can check with the ownership, but it's probably not going to be for a while.

Okay.

All right.

How about, do we want to take these together or independently?

Take them all together.

Okay.

110 Chase Street.

Yep.

And a lot of the same, same status for that one as well.

HEPA Part 2 conditional approval.

Hoping to We addressed all the outstanding state comments in this past round.

So Lake 135 Alden, hoping to start accruing allocations there.

Since that one's such a big project, it'll probably be about the same timeline.

Okay.

And the Durfee 8084 Main Street, there was a lot of new allocations for that also, was there not?

With the state?

Yeah, you know, the past, the past number of rounds we've been receiving, um, about $200,000 allocation, uh, each round.

And so, yeah, so that one's looking good with regards to the funding there.

And I know there's been some demolition work at the interior, um, and they're just finalizing some contractor negotiations to really start the work here.

Soon.

I want to say probably by the end of the year.

Okay, any questions from the board?

None.

Okay, and then we have the school of 650 Plymouth Avenue.

Yep, so I have— so received a Part 2 conditional approval about a month ago and address.

And so we're working with the state to finalize that, that application to start accruing allocations for that project.

And so hopefully by the end of this month, we'll, we'll hear back from the state and hopefully start accruing allocations there.

And then once we have everything squared away there with regards to the application and conditions, then Probably look to start construction on that one early next year, I want to say.

Has any drawings been completed for that particular building?

Nothing?

No drawings yet?

Yeah, no, no, there's been drawings.

Yeah, we, we have a conditionally approved Part 2 application through the, through the Park Service.

Okay.

Is the center stairwell— is that remaining intact?

Yeah, yeah.

So a quick synopsis.

So exterior, so we're replacing the windows with new historically compatible windows to match existing, reestablishing the entrances, um, essentially keeping the, the framework at the interior.

I mean, keeping the masonry, repointing it, re-cleaning or cleaning it as needed, roof repair.

So the exterior will be basically the same as it is now, with also, like I said, the re-established historic entrances.

Then at the interior, the corridors at the first and second floor, the stairs, those will all be retained and reutilized for the function of the apartments within.

And then the former classrooms are— each one is subdivided into 2 studio units.

All right, so, so 80-84 Main Street, those drawings are pretty well completed also?

Yeah.

All right.

Is there any way— I don't— I do not believe that we have those on record.

Uh, is there any way— are they digitized?

Could you send those, uh, 2 buildings, uh, to us, the drawings?

Is that possible?

For 650 and 84 Main Street?

Uh, correct.

Yes.

Okay.

Is that possible?

Yeah.

All right, good.

Then, then I can get those distributed out to the, to the team members here, and we can put it in our records.

That'd be great.

Any questions?

All right, do we have a motion to accept 4 properties?

Yeah, I'll make a motion to provide a letter of support with regards to 135 Holden Street, 110 Chase Street, 80 and 84 Main Street, 650 Plymouth Avenue.

A second.

All right, do we have a vote?

Uh, Ken Shattuck, yes.

John Colaimi, yes.

Joyce Rodericks, yes.

And Rick Mancini, yes.

Okay, thank you very much, Nate.

You'll be getting these letters within a few days.

We'll get them out to you by the end of the week.

You should have everything.

Sounds good, I appreciate it.

Great.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

All right.

Let's move right along.

We'll try and speed it up a little bit.

Okay.

We had a question.

Any questions so far?

We're doing well?

Okay.

There was some correspondence here.

753 Rock Street.

There was a question on the historic historic status of the building, and there was no intention, say, of changing the building at all.

It appears they're moving out of town and they would like to do something with the building while away.

They don't want to get rid of it, they want to maintain the home.

So that was fine.

There was no restrictions apply on that piece of property currently.

754 Highland Avenue, that's the temple.

And we received the call, again, correspondence on— they were changing or intent to repair or change out completely a fence in the backyard.

Again, there are no restrictions on that, so they were— they're fine.

The Parks Department in the North Burial Ground, there was a request to remove a headstone.

And there are tremendous barriers for that.

There's a national conservation for historic sites such as that where you can't even take a shovel of dirt out of there without getting significant approval from the state and things.

So the Parks Department was questioning, was it possible to remove the headstone?

And they wanted to put a different style in there.

So I cited song and verse some of the requirements and the laws that apply.

And they spoke to the interested party, and it's been resolved.

It's not going to be touched.

It's going to remain historically significant.

Family Services, a place to call.

They're interested in changing out and redoing an elevator.

I'm really not completely familiar with what they're requesting, but they will be here.

They're going to be looking for CPC funding, so they will probably be here in September looking for a letter of support.

So they were at the CPC meeting last evening to gather information.

Okay, let's just— everyone has this green sheet in front of them.

Joyce, you've got one.

Yeah, I've got mine.

Okay, these are the proposed dates for next fiscal year.

We can either— if everyone is in agreement today, we could vote on this and have Felicia pursue this.

If not, we could meet next month and look authorize this.

The dates for this room are really not settled until probably mid-October is when they start to hand out the dates.

So, there's a little bit of time, but as soon as we get this done, the better we are.

Are these dates the 2nd or 3rd Tuesday?

They're all the 3rd Tuesday of the month.

Is that in agreement?

Joyce?

Please.

All these days?

I have no problem with that.

Okay, you're gonna work in those days?

Would someone like to make a motion to adopt the proposed 2027 schedule?

Okay, do we have a second?

I'll second.

Okay, let's take a vote on that.

Ken Schrader, yes.

Jonathan Levy, yes.

Joyce Roderick, yes.

And Rick Mancini, yes.

Okay, these are our new dates settled All business.

Wow.

Okay.

PAL is— you all have received the final draft which went before the Mass Historical Commission.

We're waiting on a response from them.

Ken has asked and definitely has the station of taking some sort of a lead on this.

We're going to be— there's a group out in the city that's very active in the district, a small group.

I'm going to speak to the young woman and see if we can all get together and merge.

This is— they call themselves the Lower 40C District Committee.

So So if we could get involved with them and go along with this expansion, and yourself and Alex Silver is going to be involved in that, the preservation, myself naturally.

So right now it's sitting at Michael Steinert's office.

He did call yesterday about 5 o'clock.

He had a question, a number of questions.

They were answered.

He's going to be getting to PAL with some sort of a memorandum today or tomorrow to get it in writing, and they'll respond accordingly.

He thinks within a couple of weeks that we'll be able to get all of his questions and comments answered.

Who is he again?

Mike, he's one of the directors of the Historical Commission in Boston.

Okay, the state.

For the state, the state rep. And, so, he's reviewing all of this, all of this data for the expansion.

Once that's completed, then what we will do is we will get it to the planning board, and the city planning board will review that.

I'm sure they'll have a meeting.

We'll have to get this all addressed.

What I tentatively was thinking, and I'd like to get the approval of the board is on September 15th at our next meeting, get PAL in here and also the Preservation Society in here.

And then what we'll do is sort of put it on the city website and see if we can start to get some of the general population in here.

And we can get a presentation on where we are at that point.

And then another month from now, we should be moving on.

Will the state have— will the state have approved it by the next— our next meeting?

Yes.

Yes.

So we'll have that behind us?

Yes.

Yep.

What is this, uh, public meeting input?

Is that coming from the planning board, or is it something that we're going to sponsor?

Okay, there were— there were two— two things here.

There's— there is a consensus that, and when this was built back in 2012 also, was let's get the public aware.

You know, get them aware.

Particularly the residents that are in the district.

Put out a little information.

Get some smaller meetings going.

So, we'll open the first one September 15th, and probably once a month open one up like that.

However, there's a public hearing that that has to be completed by state law.

And, that public meeting has to wait 60 days from the time we get official approval from the state.

So, when, in a week or two, when we get official approval from the state, from that time on, we've got to wait 60 days.

And then, what we do is we have a full public hearing.

That's going to be Citywide advertising in the paper and everywhere.

Yes, get it on the radio, and we got to get it out there.

And there also has to be direct notification to every one of the affected properties within the 40C district.

So we'll have had all the mailing sent out by then and invites.

And who does that?

Uh, we will do that from the Historical Commission.

Yes.

Do you have an idea what timeline that is, because we're looking at the winter coming up.

I mean, if we're expecting people to come out to meetings or just listen on the radio or listening to a website, or how is that?

We're in the middle of August.

Definitely by the end of August, we will have full response back from You will by the end of August?

Yes.

So now you just add September and October to that.

So by the end of October, we will be able to have a public hearing.

So that would mean, say, the 1st of November, in that time frame.

We don't want to get too close to the holiday season, so we should be able to do that in, in, in the beginning of October, early November, correct.

And at that point We will then, after that particular meeting, and we get some sort of a vote, we get a good consensus, then it has to go before the City Council.

They're the final authority.

So, at that point, sometime in middle or latter part of November, we should be presenting to the City Council.

That's where we are at this point.

Now, who prepares the information, like, for example, the map of the district, the proposed district, and all of that.

Is that something that— that's, that's already done, and you should have received that in the packet.

Yes.

Okay, so that's the, that's the, that's, that, that's the kind of presentation— that information go kind of directly to the, to the people in the public that are the public?

Correct.

Okay.

Yes, exactly.

Yep.

And that's also what's going to be presented, what is presented to the mass, the Chuset Historical Commission.

And it's also going to be presented to the planning board and likewise to the city council.

So that'll be the document that we use for information?

That is our document, yes.

It's rather thick and it's a very good document.

It's very well written.

I'd like to get a hard copy of it.

Yeah, well, good luck to me.

Well, I think as we progress, we might get to the But that's a good thought, and that's a good comment.

Let's just see what kind of changes— It's better to have a hard copy than tell them to go and download it and do all this kind of stuff, especially if they're old.

What we should be doing at this point is waiting for full response back from Mass.

When Mass Historical Commission gets back to us and gives us any changes that might be in there, or things.

So, once we get this— it shouldn't be called a draft at this point, but I guess it is, to an extent.

Once it gets massaged completely, and we lock it in, then we could solicit our print shop, and we could make a copy for all of the board members here.

So, we would have a hard copy.

And, it's available to the public.

To anybody that's— if somebody's in the district, and they're interested, but they haven't, you know, their mind isn't made up or they don't know the details.

I think giving them something in writing and paper as opposed to telling them to go to a website and download it and read it, I think might be good if that's possible.

Well, there's always a letter to property owners.

There's always a notice to the property owner.

But the document itself.

Yeah, that.

That needs to be considered.

Copies of that, you know.

Yeah, we'd be hard-pressed to do that.

Yeah, yeah, those days are gone.

You know, we're old-timers, you know.

I hear you.

Okay, uh, let's see.

Uh, the next is, uh, let me just give you a brief— I don't know how brief we can get— the Freeman's Purchase marker update.

Okay.

We have finalized the phone yesterday morning phone call with a follow-up email, finally releasing us completely to go in and get the marker.

And, again, I don't want to divulge the site at this point until we remove it and get it safely in place at the Historical Society.

But we're going to go and get the marker on Friday morning of this week.

And that's part of the Freeman's Purchase.

That dates back— Freeman's Purchase was in 1653.

So think about that, when the first 26 colonists were here and bought, acquired the first land in Fall River, which was from roughly a sonnet over to— they called it the the Crookoshant River.

We know now it was really Rodman and Columbia Street; that was the line.

But those streets weren't there then, were they?

So, anyway, it's kind of exciting times.

A lot of research has been done on that.

We'll have more detail, and there's going to be a lot of notification once we acquire this.

It's going to be on radio, and we're going to get the news involved.

It's one of the city councillors who's been pushing this very, very hard.

And, he's going to be, you know, getting it well published out there.

So, it is, it's quite a coup for the city to get this.

Yep.

Central Fire Station, nothing, no change on this at all.

Haven't heard a word.

The fire museum, On North Main Street, all of the second floor windows are pretty much changed out with the newer style— not newer style, the newer windows, the same style.

And they're going to acquire— they're attempting— Al Olivera is trying to get some money.

They're where the animal control is on the first floor.

Those windows were never part of the project, so he's going to try and get allocation of monies, and get those replaced also.

So, that'll be good.

Little Theater, that project's moving right along.

We've worked very hard and closely with them.

The slate shingles are getting replaced on a really timely basis.

Staging is up, as everybody can see.

Okay.

Ironically enough, the bioreserve, That's the part 2 of this research of historic sites.

Ironically enough, I called and spoke to Laura Klein from PAL today and talked about this.

And, I was speaking to Paul Furlan and Jim last evening.

They're ready to go.

And, this is going to be more of an archaeology type of research.

You can't do any real digging, but you can do some probing and looking.

We're not looking for sites, we're looking for more artifacts, things like burial grounds, Native American burial grounds, and things of that nature.

There's quite a few that have possibly been spotted out there to date.

So, this looks like, according to Laura, that they might be in the fall actively participating and doing the research.

And that's a perfect time.

The leaves are down and they can really poke around well.

So that's where that is.

And then the police station, everybody knows that's coming down.

But the Eagle has been saved, all of that structure, and we've acquired according to Glenn Hathaway, at least one pallet of the brick is going to be saved, and that will go with the replacement at the Central Fire Station, because there was some damage there.

So, when they proceed to repair that, we'll have original brick.

Those are the same brick.

They've all been aged.

They've all been weathered identically.

So, that's where we are with that.

Okay.

One of the columns has been saved.

And I was also told or informed that one of the cages, the cells, that's been saved also.

So, and that's, that's all being stored safely.

I'm not gonna divulge where at this point, but it's all being stored.

Okay.

Alrighty.

Any other questions that to date.

Moving right along.

No questions?

Alrighty.

Next meeting is scheduled for Tuesday on September the 15th, and I'm looking for a motion to adjourn.

Motion to adjourn the meeting at 7:13 PM.

Okay.

Motion seconded.

Yes, Joyce Rodericks.

Take a vote.

Yes.

Yes, Joyce Rodericks.

And Rick Mancini.

Yes.

Meeting adjourned.

Thank you, everyone.