8.21.2023 Community Preservation Committee

uh welcome to the community preservation committee meeting held at uh one government center in the city council hearing room um you can hear this meeting through Comcast channel 18 uh Fred TV Facebook and live stream uh it's Monday August 21st 602 2023 um pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting through any medium

attendees are therefore advise that such recording or Transmissions are being made perceived or unperceived by those present and deemed acknowledged and permissible we'll start with uh roll call to my left Joan Bentley present Alexander Silva present Christian Cantera Oliveira president John Brandt president Richard Calderon president Rick Mancini present and we're missing uh Victor Ferris

tonight and we have a missing an open seat on the city council and a planning board seat is open too um do we have any citizen input okay no one are signed up can I have a motion for approval of the minutes from May 15 2023 I'll make a motion to approve the minutes of May 15 to 22. second second okay okay roll call vote Joanne Bentley yes Alexander Silva yes Kristin Cantera Oliver yes John Brett

yes Richard Calderon Yes Rick Mancini yes okay that makes it those guys a lot easier uh we have one Project Extension the Dr Fisk house um they're asking for another two-year extension uh we're supposed to be doing the annual meeting first I think you're reading from the wrong agenda no I have that yes we had to give this is scheduled for her yeah 6 p.m and then this one's everyone else immediately following 6 p.m

oh okay the way I'm reading it says angle mean follows okay all righty this is what was uh on the city website okay um we don't have a financial team here yet I think they were coming afterwards can I have a motion to uh do the annual meeting after our meeting to give them time to get here to want to do the message from the chair and election of officers first

come out of order yes we can do that um okay motion to take out of order can we have a motion to take out of order and hear the financial report when the City Finance team gets here I'll make that motion a second okay roll call vote no okay all righty all those in favor okay all righty um

let's see uh next is a message from the chair on behalf of the community preservation committee I would like to thank everyone for their continued support of the community preservation act CPA helping to make our community a better place as chairman of the committee I would like to extend my gratitude to each and every Committee Member for their efforts and to come coming together and accomplishing the

work in a timely thoughtful and efficient manner Community Presentation Act CPA is a smart growth tool that helps communities preserve open space historic sites create affordable housing and develop outdoor recreational facilities the community reservation committee has funded over 100 projects including historic preservation open space recreation community housing the hard work commit commitment and

dedication of this committee has made a real difference in improving Fall Rivers parks restoring preserving our historic buildings and assets protecting and preserving our precious open space and creating affordable housing anyone interested in applying for CBC funds can do so by September 15 2023 before noon by filling out eligibility application go to uh official Municipal websites of city of

Fall River Massachusetts Community preservation committee and official website of the Fall River City of Fall River then go to guidelines and application be sure to read through the allowable expenses so you know if you are eligible to apply our involvement on this committee is an example of the value that we can contribute an incredible unique opportunity of giving back to our

community I look forward to working with the committee and our Community Partners during the fy25 funding year respectfully John Brandt thank you next is um election of officers we'll start with uh chairman can I have nominations one nominate John Brandt okay roll call vote was that favor no all those in favor all right all right okay next is vice chair I'd like to nominate Christine Oliveira I'll second that motion

all in favor okay next is uh Clerk I'd like to nominate um Alex Silva okay all in favor okay all in favor aye aye all right okay well thank you folks look forward to another exciting year all right so that closes out our annual meeting um okay uh we're gonna table uh the annual meeting to the finance committee gets here so can I have a motion to table I'll make a

motion okay second I'll second that motion okay vocal vote all those in favor aye aye all righty we'll move on to our meeting you have to close out oh well we're not closing it out I don't think we can close it I think you're supposed to take a you can take a recess and then come back you don't you can't close it because we're not done for the day emotional recess on the annual meeting

I'll make a motion second okay all in favor all right all right commotion to reopen the in okay second all in favor all right okay looks like we won't have the financial report from uh the city financial team so uh that concludes our annual meeting can I have a motion to adjourn the annual meeting I'll make a motion second uh broke over me all those in favor aye aye alrighty moving on to our regular meeting

Community preservation committee regular meeting held at the one government center Fall River I mean can be watched on Channel 18.

Fred TV Facebook live stream uh it's 6 15.

uh pursuant to the open meeting laws any person who make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are there for advised but such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present our team acknowledge and permissible uh we'll start with roll call Joanne Bentley present Alexander Silva present Christian cantaro

John Brandt president Richard Calderon president Rick Mancini present and we're missing Victor Ferris uh open seat on the city council and an open seat on the planning board um any citizen input seeing none will move on to the next can I have approval for the minutes for May 15th

second that motion all in favor aye aye alrighty next on the list is Project Extension the Dr Fisk house FY 21 budget and I have to accuse myself as a member of the board okay how we doing Jim okay hello everyone my name is Jimmy Soul I'm the president of the preservation Society of Fall River I was out here in Fall River 577 Rock Street and thank you for having me tonight uh

we had this project which I in my head I thought was complete so what happened was most of it is done and but the apartment the unit the eight windows seven windows hadn't been completed the tenant at the time was recovering from a fractured hip and I think that there was some pushback to the contractor to the contact I just kind of wait you know leave just the ends of it and gotta go

since then Lieutenant passed away that was about three months ago so I think it was back in about may we we realized that the work hadn't been completed and so it was pushing our deadline so we wanted to make sure it was okay before we moved ahead to try to finish up those last seven windows I think it seems like we're coming in on the budget anyways but um like I said we want to make it

okay sure it was okay to move ahead yeah okay it's uh it's looking good so keep up the good work on that uh can I have a motion to extend the uh project I got a couple questions yeah um so you said the contractor just I guess disappeared um and the windows did you guys order the windows already he's repairing the window he's repairing away so they're the original windows to the house okay okay

um are you so are you guys looking into getting new new contractor is that is that what it is no you didn't really disappear he's actually a pretty good guy who comes back year to year I know he's working in in Fall River on another project right now um it's not that he disappeared it's that the tenant pushed back when he wanted to come into the house to do the

work okay because he did all the other windows that he was supposed to do right but the seven that were in that particular unit um he just couldn't get two right okay is there a schedule now then is he on schedule now that the tenant you said passed I believe well the schedule is to complete he's working on a project on the waterfront right now in Fall River okay and uh it should be very soon is

what he keeps telling me but uh he hasn't given me a date okay so soon there's no date right okay he knows how the CPA Works he knows that things do need to be done timely okay so I'm I'm hopeful he's not going to blow us off well that's not good that doesn't sound like a reliable contractor so it does a nice job on Windows he has done so yeah the problem is he has a crew

and he's in high he's a high demand kind of guy uh but we've used him for several projects at night so I I can't give you a date no yeah no I don't understand me if you decide to man he should definitely have a schedule because I mean if you have that much business you got to be organized yeah that's just my thought I have a question this is a Time extension but not any

additional money not additional money no right and and how's what is the time extension you're asking for we do two years on extension it's always a flat two years it's always a flat two years so we can't limit to let's say like like six months but it wouldn't really matter if it's two years or six months when the project is completed if there are any funds remaining they'll come back we'll sign

off on a project if there is a glitch the added time would help complete the project so I'll tell you I'm concerned anyways because I have another project back to back to this and I don't want to be in a situation where all of a sudden I can't apply more I can't come back because I'm waiting for projects that uh that are overdue and I know that some sometimes that's a an issue so yeah

I'm concerned part of myself yeah no so I mean so so so the board member of my right I mean I don't think it's a matter of funding giving back on as long as it is I think it's a matter I mean if if you say 50 of project has been completed 75 I mean you're kind of cruising them along you want to say okay we'll see you

in two years I mean we kind of want to wrap this up absolutely and and move forward I mean I think we can agree to that absolutely so I think that's you know my colleague to the left was kind of where she was getting night and I was kind of thinking the same thing but I mean the rules of the rules if it's two years it's two years now we just have a

standard two years no right no I understand I mean Jim's been before us for two projects to Summer building so it's been moving along pretty good so yeah I don't think that that you would want it to linger either so I'm sure you're going to be doing your part yeah making sure that you're in in contact with him to get in here I'd be shocked if he's not on site within two months to

not be totally shocked if it's not done within six months yeah okay yeah I mean I would feel comfortable if um if you can just give some kind of timeline I think that I think that would be helpful not just for the board but for you as well to kind I mean from what you said you have projects back to back so I think a timeline you know goes along when you're doing construction you know

so unless you're doing it yourself then yeah it's a little different so yeah all right well if you can just shoot us an email when he has a schedule I can do that okay yeah perfect all right so can I have a motion to Grant uh the extension I'll make that motion to Grant the two-year extension I'll second all in favor hi thank you thank you good luck next we have up uh Notre Dame

um the sale um the sales gone through quite a while ago because we had this on our agenda for June they have not contacted us uh for the use of the funds or anything so uh I'd like to make a motion to rescind the grant put it back into CPA I'll make that motion if you just want a little discussion I can give you an update I was there today

okay at the site it's a it's a new contractor they're out of Boston uh and they're waiting to get Paula in the building they're just doing cleanup at this point and they're going to try and follow the original drawings of the project so there's not going to be any any changes in at this point and the contract was signed in April for the new purchase for this new organization so

it's been out they've had it for the last you know three four months I mean they can always reapply absolutely not reaching out I just figured it's best to I'm in total agreement I think the new applicant should reapply I agree and then also I think the old Grant was to a whole different entity so it is not valid I was at the sale yeah Bingo yeah I think it was a similar one we were

talking about the Water Street yeah because I mean just saying that they're going to try to follow us for me if they would have came to us at the beginning and said you know we plan on following the same thing and we like to deed restrictions yeah we could probably make it work but it's been what four months so no communication think it's best to resend so you made

the motion a second I think uh Carly to the left May the second okay all in favor uh document review what I thought I'd do is uh go over how the CPA comes in uh processing process yeah uh CPC CPC committee meets every third Monday of each month if the holiday it's on a Tuesday um then the first thing that is eligibility now when we did these forms we did them

back in 2012 and every year we've kind of looked them over and tweaked them a little and uh I think Alex made some basically uh just some uh grammar and uh okay yeah um

the guidelines for eligibility is real yeah this is the guidelines I marked what I had for discussion beyond the grammar and typo kind of stuff yeah yeah yeah okay that's the guidelines okay the guidelines um did you wanna remark on your uh comments yeah so just under guide the guidelines for eligibility um the one thing I thought would be worth discussing beyond the typos and stuff which everyone's gonna review if

they want it's just like spacing and commas and stuff uh is changing applicants uh from recommended to attend the meetings to require to attend the meetings I think in this past year we were kind of leaning in that direction and rather than kind of giving them the option if we wanted to just make it a requirement right at the beginning of the process they get prepared for it because if we're not gonna you know make

any decisions pending a meeting we might as well require them to come I'm gonna remove that okay so on this um next round they're due September 1st so would they then come to the September meeting they come they would they have to file by the September 15th oh no I thought it was September 1st and then January 15th yeah yeah yeah September is it yeah there's a hearing they attend After we receive all the

apps so I I'm um I'm not saying this quite so is that hearing at our September meeting no there's usually so usually what we do is set up the date for the hearings and it depends how many projects because if we get a lot of projects then we split it sometimes into two meetings Okay so and then they usually get a letter standing down this will send out a letter to them to let

them know that they're required to come to you know this particular meeting for eligibility to answer any questions it just used to be we recommend you come to this meeting yeah now we're kind of requiring I I think that's a great idea that they're required to come any other discussion on the eligibility that was the one for that one yeah yeah uh the checklist I think we have everything covered on

that we've added taxes over the years a couple other things um and comments or changes or

they have to turn in 10 10 copies to us now the next round would be the uh funding the funding application that's due January 15th yeah due January 15th if we Mark anything on that Alex's that one I didn't get to the word markings it's just my hand copies so I'll have to I have to send it but I marked the bigger changes um the first thing I was just gonna suggest um

would be to change at the beginning so proposals for CPA funding must be submitted by downloading or using the attached application form all relevant information requested on the application form must be included with the proposal for it to be deemed responsive that way we kind of start the language at the beginning where if they don't meet future criteria we will deem them unresponsive has kind of happened this

last year when you know the line deadlines were met and then we kind of had that cut off period so rather than denying applications we could just deem them not responsive to the requirements that we put forward and I have a couple I have that just sprinkled in a couple places where relevant but this is like the one spot I'll just explain it if that works for you all yeah yeah so just

deeming them responsive or deeming them unresponsive pending the placement so what you then also just add to it to the like Crystal Clear any missing paperwork will be automatically considered unresponsive um I didn't get into listing the specific ways they could be deemed unresponsive it's mostly just saying if it doesn't meet their requirements as requested it's not that works I mean I can send the changes

so but that also I mean is there a way to make sure that they understand means we're not going to consider their application is there somewhere in there that says that it only says it more strongly now than it did before could you say considered and your application will not be considered yeah I mean yeah that's essentially what deemed not responsive means yeah I know but like we I can we may know I can add some

whatever you want you want final version when it kind of gets it around basically on there but like we had a number of them last year who didn't get the number of quotes or this was missing and it's just so people expecting the project you know that how can we make a decision if we don't have all their the information so what you can do is um from what Alex is

saying so it's basically like a bid opening when you do a bid opening um you know there's a ton of paperwork that you have to fill out these are the requirements of Statute unless you make them a requirement in a bid right so you have that that kind of leniency to do that if we want to get a packet from applicants that are submitting to a certain documentation that we require we

can just just put it somewhere you know in the top left or just create an index that says you know um required forms you know that way they know okay in the application you know in this section here you put all the required forms so that's what we do in a bit opening where you can say this section is all the required forms if they're not they're just Dean you know responsive Ophelia to

submit any one of these is considered on this phone and that's our checklist which we just looked at I know right that's what I'm just kind of just trying to explain a little bit more of what the direction you're going inside I agree with 100 answer it could be the checklist as well it could be the checklist for requirements or something like that yeah just you can do like you know like

again just a little check box like so that way they know like okay I you know submitted you know three quotes I submitted you know this so that way they kind of you know just make it a little bit more easier for the applicant so that way when you submit the packet is a complete packet and then if something's missing I mean obviously it's they have to do the due diligence to make sure everything's submitted and

then when it gets here if it's not then it's just yeah you know we do have one the responsive or non-responsive there's no in between we do have on the street already that the project budget when submitting a budget please provide three quotes so it is in there so but now it's would be deemed non-responsive if they didn't provide it sort of thing but I think in order to you should just explain deem

non-responsive means your application will not be considered just so that they fully understand what that means non-responsive means your application will not be considered we can add it to our terms as well we have a term sheet I believe yeah can we add um if they're if we're gonna do quotes um so you guys know I've been in public service for a while but I created a lot of forms and one of them was a quote

form where it's just very very simple where you can just put in the contract information and just the amount so that way this form it just basically has three sections and you put all three quotes in there along with their prices so it's just as part of a backup documentation you know so that way they have that there we kind of we can see it view it instead of you mean instead of

flipping through yeah it's like listening I mean they can still provide right they can still provide their information but it just makes it just easier yeah yeah exactly um this makes it easier for us more cleaner I think and it's that way it's kind of like everything all in one and just and it makes them just it kind of gives them that little push to to they still need to show us the quote but this would

be the summary of it right I mean they'll have they'll be required to put like the company's information I mean I know in some cases there's gonna be I mean I don't know we're gonna dive in deep um where someone does get a quote I mean a contractor is not required to provide a motor quote they can just say they can be unresponsive and say we can't you know we can't do that so that's

something you guys also need to consider as well too that if they say hey we because you know like for me I do it on a daily basis so I kind of know what's required with someone like them it's like well I can't get someone they might someone might automatically think like we have to get someone and give us a number but in some in a lot of cases it's just specialty

work where they might not get that individual so we have to be cognizant of that too so just just a thought just to put it out there yeah responsive pending you know yeah yeah I mean if they submit the form and we can yeah so just keep in mind that uh on the city Side if their their bids they would they can't use them so you really can't hold them to

because well yeah it's so close and then when they put it out for the RFP yeah so this so there's two difference yeah so with the city when it's on the city Side this you have stat you have law procurement law so the procurement law when you do a open bid which is invitation for vid because this is all Construction Construction there's no RFP that's request for proposal they have to

put that out to bid when it's a quote by Statue anything between 10 and 50 anything under 50 000 they can submit quote anything from zero to ten thousand and Sound business practice but if if it's the requirement is to get quotes by law they have to solicit to get quote they might not receive I was just about to say that five and maybe got two because that yeah same thing I do it all day long

I know it doesn't mean you're gonna get them but you try thank you for finishing for me I'm sorry no no it's fine no no I I know I've been doing it for 20 seconds but am I hearing anything that translates to uh like changes in the document you want wording wise or it just keeping it kind of as is and then a case-by-case basis the committee determines yeah okay I was just throwing recommendations just

trying to again I mean I mean but I I do like what you're saying to see the response just to simplify because I think the for me I mean if someone's you know some people do do their due diligence and you know they're new to it they don't want you know they might not really understand the process because it can you know it's some you know it's new they're new and it might get a little

confusing and something might be overlooked and it's like hey you know so it's just they do have from October to January to call for help yeah you know everything's pretty much stated there uh the only thing we don't want to get into like last year where we had them come in present and then they didn't have something and then we said okay get it to us the next meeting and

then we you know waited and yeah yeah we go over a project I'd like to have it completed and can we add maybe language to what Alex is saying so like as part of the you know let's say another word I'm gonna call it the index or whatever you you want to call it um maybe have language just saying you know if you have any questions in regards to you know any of the required forms

done by so we we do make it very clear at that meeting exactly what they need to do and when they need to do it by and like if there's other things so I mean there's only so much hand holding you can do I mean you know at some point if they want the money they're gonna have to just just like anything else if you go to a bank and you're applying for a

loan the bank's not going to hold your hand and say oh well you know we'll let you do that we'll let you do this it's the same thing you know so at some point they have to be responsible for what they're doing and we've we make it very clear like this is what you need to do this is what we're going to need from you you have to get and it's there like

if they need a letter of recommendation from like say the historical commission we tell them right out you have to get this it's your responsibility so they it's their responsibility to contact the historical commission and they can't wait until January 1st to do it and then they're going to miss the deadline so I mean yeah we do make it clear at the meetings enforce it a little more in September

the meeting yeah every applicant will make sure I tell them that everything must be in the package ready to go but January okay all right so that application is due in January 10 copies and we have our funding hearing deliberation and we vote um um then we got we've got some more paperwork but to finish this out after we're done with the voting we send it up to the mayor for his approval an appropriation order

then the final report uh they Pro he drafts it and then he sends it to the city council city council votes on it somewhere around beginning of July we try to get it in before the budget um but I had more changes to indication form oh you did okay go ahead five more just okay yeah um they won't be long uh so just back to the funding application submission form uh section six project budget this isn't

E1 um we haven't mentioned later in the application but I think under budget we should have them a section for the contingency um we mentioned at the end that 10 is suggested given what we've seen I would just say contingency 10 to 20 and let them kind of take it from uh but just including a box you know in the the project budget that we have now for contingency and starting it there okay

yeah I'd be safe saying 20 would probably be better because Verizon cost of goods are or at least okay so you're all set with that change okay um then section nine under implementation um it just says number nine implementation who is responsible for overseeing this project I think we should just add and making sure it meets CPA funding guidelines okay yeah

quick um then under 10 maintenance this kind of a few changes on this one um so it starts with Section 10 maintenance then a b if a if ongoing maintenance is required will be responsible for it I think we should start with what is the expected maintenance of the project after completion and then say if ongoing means is required who will be responsible for it so it's more holistic view of the

long-term maintenance of the project then B how will it be funded I think we should just replace it with Howell maintenance year over year be funded I think it's just more useful uh I honestly think that little square for maintenance budget could probably be eliminated I don't think we've used it particularly yet it hasn't generally been filled out too well either and I think it's kind of a hard number to

predict five years out for some of these projects but we can keep it if that's a sticking point with some people if you wanted to talk about that now or no I I agree with you that you know trying to project what your maintenance costs are going to be five years from now is not yeah an easy target it's kind of changing 10 B asking how to be funded year-over-years almost

answering the same thing but giving them yeah and then leave the more accuracy yeah and you can see if you're asking if you're asking what are the expected um you know course or or just whatever the uh the plan is like for maintenance what they're going to need then obviously they're going to have a better idea so yeah does that sound good with everyone yeah it sounds good um then next one I have it listed as

10.5 but it would probably be the new number 11. I think this would be a perfect spot to add a deed restriction section and just say uh like acknowledge that there will be a deed restriction attached to the properties because I find us making sure that they are aware that there'll be a need restriction attached to the property and just kind of having that in the Apple the funding submission form I think would be

beneficial and then we could also have a section asking if there are any existing deed restrictions on the property which are in the it's in the checklist but I think it should be in the actual form too and then they could kind of extrapolate yeah open space Recreation there's no deed restriction well there is for open space yes I mean that's right if they're buying but like Recreation like things like

that we don't put a deed restriction well it could be most parts so we yeah it could be worded if the project needs yeah so yeah yeah because then I I yeah I don't want yeah that's the thing I don't want everybody thinking they're automatically going to have one if no that it could be worded you know you know so is everyone okay with that Edition yeah yeah um and then the last one for this

it's in section 12 under other information it's the the asterisk at the bottom which it mentions the contingency it is recommended that the applicant include it says a 10 contingency I suggest we change to at least a 10 conviction contingency and then any funds granted and not used and then I want to add on the approved scope must be returned to the community preservation committee at

on the approved scope is the addition so kind of tying the approved the funds to the approved scope If the product like you know we've had kind of some questions where we just want to reiterate it I think it'd be good to just reiterate it here okay yeah sounds good and that's basically it there's all the typo stuff which I will send Sandy in if you guys really wanna like that you can't camera stuff pretty

good to me um see what else we do have a community preservation certificate and non-conclusion pretty basic simple is it typically not a collusion yet yeah um like Alex would fill this out because he deals with uh like Dr fish house so he would be filling that out um then we have a certificate of payment request uh each member everyone's seen this one right okay uh you get this when you uh the Committee

Member or the architect the grant grantee City Department of contractor signs off on it and uh then you sign off on it when the work is all done we verify it make sure I don't think anything needs to be done there uh then the certificate of completion um this big contain the project is done and you're closing it out and then any money will come back to us that is out there same thing Committee Member architect

City Department cut and dry and that's all the forms we have any other questions on document reviews okay so we'll make those changes next is the CPC plan um I don't have a copy oh yeah right here I think this is no it's still with the image on it the image yeah um we started working on that we added new pictures uh updated some of the verbiage on it it looks really nice yeah so uh

when Sandy's done putting that all together it's almost like the beginning of this book pictures and stuff you know all of our parks and everything and gives them an outline of what we do a lot of information yeah yeah I mean everything historical is in there so where they can go for information for help so it is very useful the old version the old version yeah yeah okay all righty uh let's see

and if we don't have that we'll send that out for review before we make a difference yeah so yeah yeah it was just a few tweaks and stuff uh there's some projects we did that we thought deserved to be in the picture and we took some off that been up there for a while uh new business um just before we move from that I did have some possible changes I was going

to bring up and kind of see how you all feel about them for the CPC plan uh because this would be the spot if we wanted to give some more clarification on you know our housing projects and what we're looking for same thing with deed restrictions um there's three kind of topics I point I pulled out that I was wondering about uh private projects sold within x amount of years after receiving a CPA Grant

must return the grant if how we feel about that we've had a couple instances and close calls of CPA Grant awarded projects being sold sold soon after and there's been questions about you know returning money changing of the uses stuff like that so if we wanted to put a protection in for the residents in the city of Fall River in that regard this would be a good place to introduce

and kind of set a precedent I don't know about the time frame I put within 10 years but that might be a little egregious you know it's just I I it's up to you I I have no preference I think it's on the value of the grant that we give um I know uh we had talked about uh now Statewide uh community housing is 40 percent we're only 10 percent I don't think we get projects that

you know are just I want to say outrageous because they're great projects but on our side of funding it doesn't make sense so we uh came up with a proposal to recommend that uh the category uh designate at least 20 percent of the project total as affordable housing so we just did a building on Pleasant Street at 29 27 units we did three that would have changed it to six

not a great deal but for somebody that given another three units might not be able to afford that then community housing with us is not the idea to go because we're thinking somewhere around you know 25 30 000 rehab a unit is possible right you know when you get in the new building it's 125 and for us to fund three affordable housings in a 30 unit just doesn't make sense for us no so if we

could put that in that probably should some be something we put in yeah I have that actually as a the housing housing is its own kind of separate I have two other suggestions for housing but that was that was one of them um if you wanted to tie up the private project sold question before moving to that how about we do a uh a five year with 20 each year I'm curious to see what other

communities do production they don't do anything um this is a reduction it would be back you would pay back after four years they sold in the first year they'd have to pay 80 back or would you make it 100 payback uh then so on down the road I say make it a hundred so that way you know yeah I mean we don't want someone even a little 200 000 and then putting

new windows in a place and then they sell it I mean exactly you know I like the idea restriction does stay with the building but I just don't want to I think it's doesn't look good on our part it looks like we funded somebody to make more money yeah right the uses I like the five year but without any reduction yeah 100 stay with the five year 100 I agree if they

sell it any time within five years they pay it back payback all right I mean and we can kind of iron out the details as needed I'm guessing we would have to have some conversations with the city yeah such about the wording okay that was just an idea um to kind of cover the city in regards to like we don't fund many prior projects and it's because we're kind of cautious about them for good reason with

past precedent um then housing as John mentioned the 20 limit or the 20 requirement is a suggestion uh so I wrote up the wording is uh it's under the Community Housing section uh the community preservation committee recommends that proposed projects in the community housing category designate at least 20 of the Project's total units as affordable housing that's essentially the wording it would be or

it could change and then my other two thoughts were any funds received for projects and the community housing category must be used solely for the creation or support of affordable housing units in the project that kind of stems from the elevator question that We Came Upon where we found out from the CPC Coalition that if we're finding an elevator it's supposed to be solely used for the community like

for spending an elevator under community housing it's supposed to directly and solely support community housing in those units which in some plans hasn't been the case so this is kind of to help clear that up for applicants and then this I had mentioned during the last round of funding uh them it was a suggestion when trying to figure out the value of an affordable unit so they

can't you know as John was talking about requests you know half a million dollars to create three units of affordable housing the cost doesn't really equal eyes and then when I asked the community preservation Coalition which is the non-profit that we uh John the nonprofit that helps a lot of cpcs in the state this is from that Chain of Thought the amount of funds requested in the

community housing category to purchase affordable housing restrictions should equal the value of the restrictions the city of Fall River will receive and that's done by comparing the market rate value versus the affordable unit rate and that is just kind of a guidance I feel it's not you know anywhere these are all just guidances it's just we're gonna have to do everything on a

case-by-case basis but it's just to kind of give people an idea of what we're looking for in community housing projects and how we think the benefits will extend to the residents yeah do you guys with everyone like that I mean in the long run we're just trying to use the taxpayers money more efficient and in the right way in the way that's going to benefit the most and we'll take a vote on all this stuff

when we get the final proofs so um and then one other thing thought I had was under the historic preservation category and it was maybe setting or or expanding upon the deed restriction length for historic preservation properties I've seen I think in past versions anywhere from 15 to 30 years I don't know if we wanted to kind of set an expectation for historic preservation projects um I personally

think that maybe the city project should have a higher deed restrictions since the community's investment on those City created or built buildings is higher than a public or a non-profit so I kind of feel like there should be more value with the deed restriction for the residents with public properties I'm kind of looking at the Armory as an example uh I think there was an existing deed restriction on it that's more

importuity but the one that the CPC put on it it would be kind of halfway to expiring and now we're talking about selling it so if you kind of look at it in terms of an investment or for the community it might be questionable to some so maybe I think the worst for City owned projects at least would be increasing the length but it's just thought yeah what are we having at 50. I've

seen different things I don't I don't know if there has been a set they uh because I saw 30 I think on the Army but I've seen others when they do the restrictions kind of based on the value of money they took on a grant so if they take for a million dollar building and they only take 50 000 to reduce something you really not going to put a third a year on

probably like a 15 is good on how long we want to make it yeah from I mean my just a quick thought I mean for me it gets a little tricky like here in Bristol County like you know we have three cities which city of Fall River City in New Bedford in the city of Taunton and if you look at all three cities you all the buildings are old yeah and they're falling apart

but besides that which is the number one thing that I have kept so when I mean I think when when when the city comes in before the Border asks money is basically because they haven't been able to upkeep any of these buildings and it's you know the the maintenance on it you know and then with inflation you take that into consideration it's just to kind of keep it somewhat of afloat you know it's like

hey we need we need a new roof because it's just it's just costing them a lot to you know have a crew in there doing all the repairs um you know I mean does you know quick real quick you know just the reason why they created you know Capital Improvement uh uh plan for for cities because for that reason it's just a lot of old building and it's just cities don't have money so

it's just something to think about I'm not saying yeah yeah I'm just saying just kind of think about that because I mean I mean again I see it because I've I work in public service or like I see a daily um you know so just just keep that in mind when we want to put you know D restrictions like John said building's worth a million bucks and we're giving them 50 000 I mean 15 years

you know it's just it it actually is going to cost the residence more because you also have to remember is that besides maintaining the building when this weather inclement the taxpayers are paying city workers to go and shovel and plow those buildings is costing money so you know we also got to keep the buildings warm you know that that's expensive in itself so you start thinking of all those factors they just

don't you know like at that you know our own personal home when you just you know kind of shut off the lights and just drop down the heat down to you know freezing temperature because the the the heating bill is expensive so just keep that in mind again it's just I I see it because you know it's just kind of the role I'm in but just when you guys think

of which direction you want to go keep that keep that in the back of your head I just tell the question so if it were extended to 30 years for a city building and let's say in eight years they just decide you know what we have to close this building there's nothing we can do what happens well they can't knock it down the deed restriction means things so their option at that point is

to try and sell the building but at least the building the deed restriction goes with the building so if if the city can't afford to maintain a building then they sell the building but they can't knock it down right but see that's what that's and I so in in my realm so there's been quite a few instances where it's like you know like a old nursing home or old you know police station that's like

they're not they can't do much with it they have to knock it down and build whatever they're going to build so you know you don't because you don't know what the future holds I mean you haven't you know when you're selling a property you don't know what the investor that's coming in with their idea and thoughts are so if you're saying hey you know um we're gonna put a d restriction I

mean at first for the city it's a win-win because they're like hey we're keeping a building for now but we don't know what the future holds down the road so just it's just a thought so just keep that in the back again because I I live in a breather so just I'm just sharing that with you guys because I it's like when we uh but five years ago the police

station came before us for a new roof because it was going to be sold but we couldn't get it guaranteed honor not even purchase and sale not even any kind of information right so for us to vote on spending 250 on a building that is in dire shape I mean it's it's you know ready to collapse inside uh I could we couldn't see spending 250 000 okay we'd have a deed restriction

but we have a deed restriction on a building that is going to probably fail no yeah right I mean I think I'm sorry yeah kind of got to use our own when we have individual projects come can the city maintain it and if not do we want to invest in it you know I I think what you know another side would be if the way we and again this is just

my own just thinking about this real quick um someone comes before us for funds for for old building I mean what what is the purpose of that building if it's vacant and they just want money just to do a new roof you know that's it you know there's no offices in there no one's using it it's just a an abandoned building do we you know at that point in time that we could

just make that determination and say hey there's no one in there I mean yeah I kind of think that lends Credence to the idea because uh any project that comes before the committee should have a pretty solid idea about the future of the building in which case if they didn't like as your example with the police station the funding is not denied but if they do seem sincere and have

taken the steps to uh you know ensure a Redevelopment of a historic building then I don't think a longer deed restriction will do anything but ensure that reality is more so brought to light um I would this is just a suggestion so I would sug like maybe even just giving a range of possible length of deed restrictions rather than not saying anything so people are aware of the possibilities then on a case-by-case

event Case by case basis we could kind of look at where the value is and what you know the length of time would be appropriate for the funding requests and you know the benefit of this community it's mostly just kind of giving a range or an idea rather than having locking it into change over the year like I there hasn't really been I think a set in the plan anyway no right

and another thing and again just thinking even diving even deeper I mean so here in accounting just like anywhere in Massachusetts and and pretty much across the country all all cities and towns they they all by now should they all have a capital Improvement plan where it's a five between three to five year to ten year so it's all in writing as to what they're trying to do so you know if someone comes before us we're

like yeah it's part of our okay well show us the plan you know because they pay a top dollar to have Architects come in and just go through that plan you know and just say hey this is what we're planning to do with all these different buildings because basically it's just maintaining upkeeping the buildings it's really really what that plan is so at the opposite point of time if it's not part of that

you know that building is not part of the capital Improvement plan then we can just say you know make the determination here and just say yeah if it's not part of it how can you really reassure this committee that what you're trying to do is not just to kind of yeah you know band AJ for now so just another thought yeah oh I'm sorry so we have a master plan for the city

that was done yeah that's basically what it yeah the city councilors never refer to the master plan in anything that gets done you have a plan like you have the the planning committee that never refers to the master plan all this money that was spent and nothing was done and it's a great Master Plan and there's a lot of information in that about preservation for the parks preservation for historical buildings

and things like that and yet nobody in the city actually uses the master plan right it's really frustrating but you know what it you know what it is so the difference is between a master plan and a capital Improvement plan a master plan is to design and say this is all my wish list right this is all the stuff I wanted to put it in there and then they

can go and kind of cherry pick it the capital Improvement plan is something that's a set deal because they have to go out and get bonds that doesn't happen overnight you're talking about okay for FY you know 30 this is what we're doing so you kind of start the processing you know within a couple years to kind of to get there you know so that's the difference between the two so a master

plan is just a plan they don't even use it and in planning ahead for these projects that may come up in the city or things that they want and they're not even they're not even following a master plan both of us don't say this this this the two of them is is so the master plan is designed again is just there's a difference between that and the capital so the master plan is designed to say

okay let's look at the whole city as a whole right and then just say okay these are all of our buildings this is what we want to do with them right you know um that's one that's all the wish list right they'll something we would like to see happen each year they can I mean it doesn't have to be part of a capital Improvement plan they can also just say hey you know let's say like facilities

can say okay we can undertake this you know this from the master plan because we have it in our budget we have the room to actually do this because you know let's say from a scale of one to five this need this is this project is very urgent but then you know then you also have the capital Improvement plan where they get you know special funding for it they go out and get bonds for

those so this is kind of like a two-part process to it but the master plan is really just of what what they would like to see happen it's a wish list it's not nothing really concrete because it's just a once you have the master plan it's like okay you know this is the massive plan for 10 years sometimes it just gets put right in the bookshelf and then every year it's like okay what do

we want to do you know that's there's nothing concrete so Providence has been following their master plan since the 1980s every mayor that goes in just turns to New Bedford to New Bedford is you know because you've got it I work for New Bedford I know well for Grants you've got to do bigger things part of that I know yeah back to the deed restriction ranges do we like including a possible set of ranges or yeah

like that's both numbers I've seen minimum or five five to Thirty uh oh we need more than five I think you've never gone it's listed with the years yeah I just I mean we can we just updated I have all the deed restrictions and it lists all the years that we did uh so no I didn't bring that one I didn't bring it because we can decide yeah we can

yeah we can decide I was gonna say yeah we can think about a little bit more yeah yeah it's just you know I think so people know 15 and 30 years I would say yeah okay yeah and I will say that bill Kenny now is involved as our attorney for deed restrictions and he's he's away for another week or two but when he he returns he's going to look at trying to establish maybe something that's

uniform right now our deed restrictions almost vary from property to property to property so when he gets back we're going to meet and sit down and look at that particular aspect of the deed restrictions So within a month hopefully we'll have something more tangible good yeah I think I sent uh one of the things I sent from CPA I think it had in their deed restrictions and they said simplifying

it standard is the best way to go exactly yep and and bills it builds in that mindset he says it should be a standardized form these variances that that are involved in the the restrictions that we presently have we said it's not not a good not good way to operate very true I agree yeah okay I know he's going to start with the Abbey first and then yes work his way back from last year going back

Okay so all done with the CPC plan okay new business um I want to make a motion to if um I mean we can't really forward do anything tonight but just to to review um Sandy Dennis's salary and hours because she's never had an increase since she's been doing this and I think that that's something we need to increase last year no she's not part of the uh City contract where she gets the

and you're saying we don't we don't have a salary

we haven't done anything in 10 years so yeah and um we'd like to give her some more added duties of uh um taking the minutes so but we'll discuss that at next meeting yes but in the agenda for discussion yeah yeah and then uh we also had uh can't really discuss too much of it uh the Historical Society ran into a road bump which I gave you a copy of uh that uh uh

they got their 1.4 million Grand in and somehow someone overlooked uh something in the project and they need some extra emergency funding so there are going to be on September 18th agenda so just read that over so you'll be caught up okay anything else on new business motion to adjourn I'll make a motion to return second all in favor aye