4.17.2025 Fall River School Committee - Special Meeting

I'd like to call to order the special meeting of the for school committee for April 17, 2025. Deb, would you please call the role? Mr. A here. Mr. Bailey.

Mr. Das here. Mr. Cory here. Miss Laravey here. Miss Perrera here. Mayor Cougan here. Salute to the flag.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Uh, no citizens input tonight, De. No.

Ready? No.

Um, we have a request to go into executive session. Make a motion to enter executive session. Second with a question.

What's the question, Mr. Das?

Actually, a statement. Um, so I will not be voting to go into executive session tonight. Um, the reasons are because one, I believe we could be in violation of the open meeting law. The topic listed is too vague. I believe we could have given more information on the agenda without compromising the purpose of the executive session. Two, I believe that we could have used other purposes as well, such as purpose four and

purpose 10. And only using purpose five restrains what we can discuss. If we are found in violation of the open meeting law relative to the executive session, our minutes automatically become open.

Three, I believe there is much discussion that should be held in open session. We should have held an open session portion on this agenda. The public deserves to know if their data was compromised, what are the risks, and what the public is going to do with their money. And four, finally, I do not trust that the executive session will be leaked by the mayor. Members of this committee were told not to confirm a

ransomware attack because that there is a risk that could delay the amount of time that sensitive information is in the hands of bad actors or increase the amount the taxpayers may have to pay for a ransom. Paul Kogan leaked classified information and the taxpayers may have to pay for it. And the mayor placed the sensitive information of students, staff, and others in jeopardy. I have no

confidence in the school committee leadership. So, I'm going to withdraw my second. And I'd like to make a motion that this school committee formally censor Paul Kugan for violations to the school committee ethics policy by disclosing classified information placed in the district at risk.

Um, okay. What was the classified information? You disclosed a ransomware attack on the district. I disclosed it to NBC 10. Yes. That was 10 days after it was already out in the news. It was released on the 7th and there was nothing confidential in the email that Dr. Curley sent us. It's right here. I can read it. There's nothing to say. We were told about a cyber a cyber attack.

We I was I was instructed not to let the public know about a ransomware attack because there's a risk that could increase the ransom on the district. I I was never told that. Were you? And Neither was she. So I don't know what you're talking about. I was told I I was told that. Who told you that?

Superintendent. Did you tell him that? I did speak to him yesterday. I yesterday all members of the committee to make sure everybody was aware. I I would agree. Um I wasn't I had heard that there was some mis um information out there as to what we would be discussing discussing in open session in um executive session. So I contacted each member of the committee yesterday to make sure that um everybody understood

that we were going to be talking about um the criminal misconduct um associated with cyber security event and at that time um when I spoke to Mr. um disas I did tell him that we would be discussing some information that should not be shared with the public and um yeah so I didn't share it yesterday because I wanted to share it in executive session that's why we're going into executive

session to discuss it but I have the email you originally sent out on the 7th and I did the show with channel 10 on the 17th and in that 10day interim no one told me anything was confidential super did they tell you that during that 10 days did they tell you it was confidential um to the through you chair to superintendent. Is there a risk of announcing there is a ransomware attack?

Could that increase the risk of the ransom going up? I I do I think some of these questions are I did make a motion for a sensor on that topic. Second question.

Second with a question. Mr. Aio. Yeah.

So I think Mr. D raises a valid point.

Uh we've all been told over and over here that we need to speak through the superintendent with one voice when things come up. But the mayor seems to think that he needs to be the answer and to tell everyone what's happening and not most times and a lot of times it's something that the superintendent has not even told us. The mayor has gone on record in public meetings, in public

interviews to talk about this particular situation with things that are just quite frankly I have no reason to believe that they're true as to how this happened or any of that stuff. So the purpose of us saying nothing, which would include the mayor and should include the mayor, should be to have what we're having now is an executive session to discuss it so we can all be on the same page with what happens. But

when you want to go on interviews and say things that are not accurate, like as if you're speaking for the superintendent of schools and the school district, that is a problem. Mr. Mayor, the superintendent told me the same things that she told Mr. Das and I respect the superintendent for calling to say this is what's happening, but we should not be saying things out in public until we can talk about this in

executive session in the proper forum.

That's the message that I received from the superintendent. After that, you chose to go on channel 10 and divulge various things that are not pro probably not even true because I don't even know where you get half the things that you say sometimes. And we're going to find that out when we talk to the people that have been working on this. But but the fact of the matter is, Mr. Mayor, is you

need to stop going out publicly speaking for the school department. Mr. Agar, you do not tell me what to do. I was not told what you said you were told. I would tell you the same thing and I would tell the other gentlemen the same thing too for their preponderance of just letting stuff go whether it's on Facebook emails or whatever. I was told um that there that no one no one had a

problem with what I said 10 days after we released the initial email. I wasn't told not to talk to anybody or I would have uh definitely followed the instructions. But my point is, I didn't say anything confidential or off the rails that wasn't already out in the public airways. If that's what the case is, I think we should vote on this censure right now and we can get on with the meeting. I know these these events

make you guys feel better and they help the district, but at the same time, I don't know what we're doing, so let's vote. Let's I still have the flow. So, on that same issue, you said in a in radio interview that this came from emails. You divulged that it was human resource data. you dulged that you said that it was some sort of uh other information that we as a school

committee have not been told any of this. So where did you get your information to to say to a media outlet that an it was based on an old email address or that it was HR files and personal social security numbers and old data? Where did you get this information from? I did not Mr. Aguar, you really do always play fast and loose. I did not say any of that stuff was out. I said it

could be it could have gone in through an old email. I don't know for sure. I said it could be personal stuff that people don't want out whether it's a social security number, discipline, whatever. I didn't say it was and I didn't. You can listen to the way that the way that we can guarantee it doesn't is that you need to stop talking to them and let the superintendent do her job

and she can speak for the district, not you. Let's vote on the cens. You ready for that?

Deb, call the role. Mr. Oh, I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. What is the motion? What is the motion? To censor the mayor, the vi the chair of our school committee from talking about the school motion. Yes, Mr. Bailey. Mr. Das, yes. Mr. Corey, no.

Miss Laravey? No. Miss Pereira? No.

Mayor Kugan? No. Okay. On with the meeting.

So, there's a motion on the table to uh enter. We need a second to enter into On the motion, a second. On the motion. On the motion. M. Mr. drag here, please.

Mr. Das mentioned three or four uh different areas that we could have actually gone into executive session for. I'd like to ask our attorney what that if what his opinion is on that a issue. The attorney couldn't make it tonight. He was double booked. So, we'll go with what he put on the agenda. Those questions I'm sure Mr. Das can forward on to him and we can tackle them for the

next meeting. So my other concern is that based on what's here says we are going to as a school committee go into executive session to investigate charges of criminal misconduct or to consider the filing of criminal complaints. The other problem I have is that we do not have our attorney here at this special meeting to to discuss this. We have an attorney, a paid full-time attorney for

a reason so that the attorney can advise the school committee.

How do we even schedule a meeting without the attorney? Did anyone call and say when we all got questioned on whether we could make it, whether the attorney could make it? And if not, we should be having this meeting at another time. Why would we not have our attorney here for this kind of content? Can anybody answer whether he was checked to see if he could make this meeting before? If we go into executive session,

call polling myself saying I'm got a call on behalf of the superintendent. So I guess it's on you. Did attorney Assad get pulled. Yes. We knew that he would not be here and we still chose to have this meeting without an attorney. Yes.

It's important enough that we get the executive session. So, so we couldn't have a find a time when he could make it. It wasn't as important, I guess, to everybody else to me that the attorney's here for this kind of content. I I'm not go It's not about disagreeing with you about having the attorney here. It was time-sensitive. We had to do it and this was an opportunity for the meeting um so

that we could give 48 hours notice.

Tomorrow's a holiday, then it becomes a weekend um holiday weekend. and it was time sensitive and could not wait until next week and there's no other time and I guess it's I guess my opinion is just different that something this sensitive we should have our attorney here. I'll leave it at that. I yield Mr.

Chair on the motion. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr.

I believe Robert's rule says he has to let you all talk twice then he can say stop. He chooses not to. That's on him.

Well, it's a second motion. You let it happen all the time. That's on you. You can let him keep going. That's on you.

I'm not the one with the gavl. Um what I will say is that my experience being in executive session over the last 3 years, um the attorney gives us some advice, but he does not vote, right? So, we don't need him in there to actually give him permission to do things or give the superintendent permission to do things such as maybe hire other entities and things that we have to do. So, although

I do agree it would be better if he was here, but he's not. But I also want to point out that it does upset me and bother me when questions like that are asked just for the camera. When you can make a statement, right? My colleague could have made a statement and said, "I'm upset that the the you know, our attorney isn't here." Instead, he says, "I'd like to take I'd like to ask the

attorney a question. Is he here?" You know, he wasn't here, Kevin, because when I walked in before the cameras were rolling, you were screaming and yelling in a library, hooting and hollering at the mayor. Why are we here? Why are we here? You knew he wasn't here. I have no problem with you expecting and wanting him to be here. That I don't have a problem with. I have a problem with

stupid questions that waste everybody's time. You've made your point. Mr. Das has made his point. Neither of you think it's important we go into executive session. That's fine. We're going to vote. If my colleagues agree with you, then I go home earlier. If they don't, then we get work done.

shocking work done. I would like to get work done. Let's let the superintendent do her job. I believe I heard my colleague say that today, right? The mayor shouldn't tell her what to do. I don't think either any of my colleagues should either. Did the mayor speak incorrectly in his interview? I don't know. I was working. I didn't hear it.

From what I hear, maybe not the best public speaker, but do I think that means I'm supposed to put tape over his mouth? No. He was the duly elected mayor of this community. whether you like him or not. And he's the chair of the school committee whether you like it or not. So if you want to have a conversation with him and say, "Hey, be careful next time.

Don't say this. Don't say that." That's fine. Have that conversation. We could have that conversation in executive session and it would actually make us look a lot better than it does right now. Everybody, I've heard from my colleagues, this shouldn't be an executive session. We need to tell everybody. It could be that we need to tell. We need to tell. Then the mayor goes on the radio, answers questions.

Why is he talking? I'm very confused. I don't know if you want people to have information, not have information. What I can tell you is I'm already aggravated and we've been here for 15 minutes.

Okay? Clearly, you two have something against the mayor. That's fine. I don't care. I don't care. I'm not involved in it. I don't want to be. I'm here to do this job. The superintendent told us we needed an emergency meeting. I lost two hours of overtime to come here to do my job because she told me it was important. So, I'm going to go with it's important. I'm going to vote to go into

executive session and then I'm going to find out there why we're here. And if I was wrong to go in, then I'll be happy to say that. But this right here is a lot of nonsense. With that, I yield and I don't have to say anything else cuz unlike my colleagues, I don't have to be the last person to talk. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, my colleague to my right actually somewhat made my point. My colleague to my right wants to discuss uh Please don't swear, Miss Per.

I said shoot. Sorry. Um, shoot because my phone went off.

So, my colleague to my right wants to have a conversation, executive session about what the mayor said, but specifically we have to talk about and I and I figured and I figured attorney would be here, so that's why didn't say that. Don't want to talk about executive session. Said you could if you wanted to. I don't want to. Just point of clarification. Don't change my words. They're very

clear. We we are tasked to only specifically discuss to investigate criminal charges of misconduct or to consider the filing of criminal complaints. So on that topic, we are constrained to talking about one item which is something I wanted to ask attorney Assad about. So questions on the motion. Um, do we have if anyone whoever can answer the question, do we have an identified suspect who we are

investigating? Come yeah. Can we please go into looking for a yes or no? No, that's not public information. Move.

Move the question. I have a motion to move the question. Second. Motion and second. Now the next motion is called on the motion to move the question. Point upon me inquiry. I did not I did not see the floor. Miss Laravey should have waited till she was called upon to make that motion. That violating just you're violating the rules by asking questions about um potential issues that are going

to be discussed. The only person who violated anything or disclosed anything was yourself. We have Yeah. Go ahead.

Mr. Mayor, Mr. Mr. Das raised the point that he has to finish before we have the motion. That's the only thing I'm asking. Now, I would say I would say no.

So then you could say that that particular part's out of order and he kept talking. What I'm saying is you should say then that we're not going to discuss that type of stuff before he sees the floor. Otherwise, you can't have other motions. Go ahead, Mr. Das.

Thank you. And if the question I can't ask for, even though I believe I can, just let me know. Can I ask what criminal statutes we're investigating?

Does anyone have the answer? The point I'm trying to make here is we are constrained to one topic and if we mess up without our attorney here, the minutes go public. the minutes can possibly go public if there's a complaint, if there's a request for the minutes because we have to be on top of these things when we go into executive session. And what I was to my colleague to my right, I don't believe there are

certain things I and again I trust the superintendent when she told us there are certain things in here that need to be discussed, but there are also certain things I would love to have seen as I said before in an open session item for this. So either superintendent can give a statement to the public or we can discuss some of these items in public because the public doesn't have a right

to know if their data is being leaked or or if anything like that or how much we're going we might have to use of our public money. So I think those are very valid questions and we should be very careful when the superintendent says we shouldn't disclose something we all have to follow that not just the chairman.

I'm ready to vote.

Mr.

Yeah, stay here. Yeah. So, two things.

One is uh I found out at 5:10 that attorney Assad was not going to be here.

So, that did upset me absolutely because I did not know he wasn't going to be here. I'll still stand by the fact that we should have our attorney here uh without question. The other thing I think needs to be said publicly is that this particular executive session item agenda is in order to get into discuss.

But I think we need to say for the edification of the public that this entire executive session is related to the cyber security attack period. So that people don't start making their own uh judgments or wondering or you know make their own narrative. This particular item has to do with cyber attack and that's it. So I don't want people to get out there and start to wonder and start questioning when they

see this. Oh what's who's getting in involved criminally and all this other stuff. This is the cyber attack for the public certification and that in my opinion is all that we should be saying.

that I yield. Thank you. Can we get a vote to go into execut?

Yes. Mr. Bailey. Mr. Das. No. Mr. Cory?

Yes. Miss Laravey? Yes. Miss Pereira?

Yes. Mayor Kugan? Yes. Executive session.

Back in regular session. Please call the RO. Mr. Hag here. Mr. Bailey. Mr. D here. Mr. Cory here. Miss Laravey here.

Miss Pereira here. Mayor Kugan make a motion to adjourn. Second. De call the motion. Mr.

Chair D. Thank you. I just wanted to ask if there's um any statement. I know we have to be careful, but there's any statement we can give the public. Not at this time.

Okay.

Mr. Aam. Yes. Mr. Bailey. Mr. Das. Yes, Mr. Cory. Yep. Miss Laravey. Yes, Mr.

Pereira. Yes, Maryan.

Mayor Kogan. Yes. Ajourned.