5.29.2025 City Council

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City Council Committee fans will come to order. The clerk will call the role.

Council Scadm here. Dion here.

Hart Kilby here. Pereira.

Ponti here. Reposo here. Tith here.

President Camarra here. Just want to let people know that council and council Pereira had reached out to me and said they're running a little behind and they should be here shortly, but they're not sure what time. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit this meeting to any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or

transmissions are being made whether perceived or imperceived by those present and not deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Item number one, we have two individuals that signed up for citizen input time.

First, we have Michael Orian. Subject matter, fire budget. Come down. You have three minutes.

Thank you.

Good evening, members of the city council. Many of you know me, those you don't. My name is Michael Rean.

I proudly serve as a president of local 1314, been a firefighter in the city for 26 years. And before that, I worked the MS right here in Fall River. I've seen a lot over the years, new mayors, new city council members, and a long list of promises. But the promise to properly fund public safety, to protect the people who protect this city, continues to be broken, most recently and most clearly by this administration.

There is a belief pushed from the top down that we can keep the city safe with the current proposed budget. We all know the truth. The cost of everything has gone up. Fuel, electricity, apparatus repairs, basic equipment, and yes, the cost of living. Yet, this budget does not reflect any of that. In fact, it proposes cuts. You might not see the consequences on paper, but we feel that

the firehouses and on trucks and every scene. These so-cal small reductions made behind desks will have absolutely have real world consequences for our operations and for the safety of both the firefighters and our residents. Let me give you some real life examples of things that happened.

In January 2022, during a blizzard on Irving Street, our frontline reserve pump up truck that puts water on a fire broke down. No water means no fire suppression during a blizzard. That same pumper failed again last week, May 19th, 2025 in the Highlands on Madison Street failed to go in pump. The second reserve engine was purchased at the same time back in 96 1996 was brought in to replace that one.

That one upon inspection also failed. At the same time another fire came in and they had to respond with the init in initial apparatus which did not work. Here's another example.

Earlier this year, ladder 4 was called to rescue an unconscious person who was electrocuted on a scaffolding. The crew got him down safely. Truck broke down. Hydraulic fluid poured out of the bottom. Truck barely moved. City failed to properly fix that truck. That same apparatus, ladder 4, was on the scene of a locust street fire very recently. It was a ground ladders only because the aerial

apparatus did not work. By the time it was switched out with ladder 2, our last ladder truck in the city, the fire had already blown through the roof. These failures are not on our members. They're the result of underfunding, aging infrastructure, poor planning, planning that falls squarely on the mayor and the administration's priorities.

We are continually asked to do more with less. And we do until we can't. And this is what else we're dealing with. Stations are infested with cockroaches rats mice buildings filled with asbestous, crumbling floors, collapsing ceilings, black mold, raw sewage in the basement, broken windows that never get fixed. Conditions that wouldn't be allowed in a third world prison. But we're just firefighters.

We're expected to deal with it. We seen the city delay basic repairs.

Can you try to wrap it up, please?

You're going beyond 3 minutes. Motion to wave the rules. Second. Motion to read the rules and made second. All in favor?

I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Yet another three minutes. Thank you. We've seen the city delay basic repairs, stretch equipment years beyond its service life and even skip out on federal safer grants. Grants that could have improved our staffing. And why? We don't like to know why. Well, that's a question for the mayor and one that I hope gets answered publicly here. We're currently running below critical staffing

levels. From April to September 2024, our numbers dropped well below 200 firefighters that we should have. Now we're hovering around 180. Our members are burning themselves out with mandatory overtime covering shifts just to keep the rigs running. We show up every single day without complaint, but that doesn't mean it's okay and it's not sustainable. This administration needs to stop asking how

to cut corners and start asking how to keep firefighters and the public safe. The people of the city deserve a fire department that is fully staffed, fully equipped, and properly funded. To the citizens listening, you deserve better. Tonight, I'm not just speaking for Local 1314. I'm speaking for every person who expects a firefighter to show up when their loved ones can't breathe or when their house is on fire. I'm

speaking for the men and women who proudly wear this uniform. Thank you. And give everything they got even when the city gives them so little in return. I'm asking, no, I'm pleading with you. Fund this department at a level it needs. Not just so we can function, but so we can survive and thrive. Not just to survive, but to serve with excellence. And I'll end with this. If an elected official shows this

kind of disregard for the very people, those people would run into a burning building to save them and give their lives. How much did he really care about the people they were elected to serve? Thank you, Mr.

President 6. Thank you, Mr. President.

Very briefly, you mentioned something about fire stations that have rats, mold, chipping paint, and I need to know what cockroaches. Cockroaches. I need to know where these stations are. And I'm going to ask you this mildly because I'm annoyed because I've been told year over year, budget after budget, quarterly update after quarterly update that everything is fine.

So, what I want to know is what stations have these problems because I intend to ask these questions again and maybe I'll get a different answer.

Off the top of my head, council, I could give you a quick breakdown. Stanley Street has cockroaches. The building is undermined. We've had sewage bubble up from the basement on slow down. Stanley Street. Stanley Street. Cockroaches, rats, mice. Uh I mean, the building is from uh the the late 1800s. And if you want to know how much the city cares about is we're in a building from the late 1800s. Stanley Street has

cockroaches. What else?

Uh rats, mice, uh the the building, the entire building is is the foundation is being undermined. Uh we have flooding in the basement. We've had sewage back up into the basement. Uh same goes with the center station that's more on Bedford Street which also has asbestous uh rodents uh crumbling infrastructure and this is the station that uh is being renovated at this time. It's being

renovated currently. Yes, sir. Okay.

What are they what have they been doing in the station? Uh they they want to expand. I I don't know the the blueprints on What station is it that has chipping paint on the ceilings that fall in people's mouths when they sleep?

Uh that would be the center station.

tennis.

It's been like that since I came on the job. How long ago was that?

Uh started EMS 1994 and went over to uh res from rescue to fire in 19 98. So it's been like that since 1994. I think it's been like that since 1950.

Okay.

So there's only two stations after Oh, no, no, no, no. The Flint is I believe is a 20-year building. a 20 or 30 year building that was built in the 1970s. Uh I mean there there's a a building where they have rodents, mold, uh windows that fall out, air conditioning that didn't work for a a couple of years. Sometimes the heat works. Is it working? Does the air conditioning work? They finally put

a splitter in. Okay. So, uh you have Candas on Plymouth Avenue that has radon gas. The meters go off in the basement. Uh they also have had problems with leaking roofs. That's a temporary building as well. It's a I think a 20 25 years.

Uh I think we've made uh multiple complaints over the the last decades. Uh but we we usually last in line and repairs if they get done, they barely get done. Okay. Uh the Globe Stations has the same problems. Leaking roofs. Uh I know they had a problem with mold. The Flint had a problem with mold. Uh, I mean, I would be more than happy to give you a tool. All right. Yeah. Yeah, I

know you will. Thank you. I'm just going to thank you for your time and what you've told me. I know that Mr. Olive is going to be here at some point in the next budget cycle whether are we meeting next week. We here again or it's the week after week after. So, when we're back here again, he'll be here. I'm going to ask him the questions. Madame Clerk, I'm going to ask um if you can

please hold the minutes uh for for myself and my colleagues from the last time that we had Mr. Olivea down here spinning us that everything's going great in the police in the fire stations and that there's no problems. And I would like to see where the disconnect here is because I don't like being spun and told that everything's okay when there's clearly problems. So, I will take you up on your offer and I'm sure

my colleagues who would don't want to o open vi open meeting law violations should be offered the same opportunity to go through some of these stations and see some of these problems so that we can see what we can do to help because I'm so tired of hearing that everything's okay when absolutely just point of information Mr. President. So, uh, site visits, there's no open meeting law violations. So, all nine of us can

show up for site visits as long as we don't deliberate. Fair. We won't deliberate. I'll do I'll we'll coordinate through you. I'll find your number somewhere and we'll figure it out. So, I yield. Thank you, Mr.

President. Thank you, Council. And point of information, I um through you, the chair of public safety, I know they they've taken the public safety meetings on the road. I'd say let's go to the fire stations, hold uh hold some meetings at the fire station so that the public can see it as well. I yield. Thank you, Council Council C3. Council, thank you, Mr.

President. Sorry for being late. I couldn't help it, but uh Mike, I talked to you yesterday. I have every intention of uh going there this weekend with you and whoever else from the fire department. Uh we just had a uh public safety meeting up at the industrial park. I'm not sure we should have public safety meetings if these buildings aren't safe. Sorry. We don't want chips.

We don't want paint falling on people that go to these public public hearings.

Oh, no. I think it would be great.

That's okay. We'll give you a helmet.

No, no, no. I'm not waiting on me. I'm just saying that I talked to Mike in the yesterday. So, I'm going to be there this weekend to wherever he wants have a public safety meeting. A building probably should be condemned.

What's that? So, we're going to have a public safety meeting and a buildings that probably should be condemned. We got rodents, cockroaches. But, think about what we're saying though, right?

So, we have it staffed 24/7 and they Mr.

I said that we we had a meeting about two weeks ago at the at the fire station up at the north north end. So yes, what see council councilman seat one said um to have some meetings. Yes, maybe we will. Of course, if it's going to the wall the walls are coming down and the ceiling's coming down, I'm not going to have the meeting there. So, uh but but I'll call you tomorrow and we'll work it

out when the weekend station that we can be protected. We're going to get a lot of answers tonight. All right. K2. Yeah. Just wanted to add to uh Council Ponti's comments. Um at that particular meeting, the city administrator at the time told you you were incorrect that things had been brought up to snuff, so to speak, and the the issues were that he took objection to you stating that the uh

fire department and the buildings were in disarray.

So, I don't remember if Mr. Aloa was here with him at the time or not, but that's just something to look for that I yield. Thank you, councelor. All right.

Well, thank you very much for coming down.

Next, we have Alex Silva, subject matter for fire department.

Hello, Alexander Silva, 148 Purchase Street.

Um, so this is taken from a 1978 Herald News article commemorating the Farber's great fire of 1928, uh, its 50th anniversary, of which we are now approaching its hundth. Within 10 minutes, the flames had spread throughout the building in which a demolition crew had been working for three days. A cold wind roaring up Casset Street from Mount Hope Bay whipped the flames through the windowless structure. Fire Chief

Jeremiah Sullivan sounded three alarms and called for outside assistance as the blaze spread. The wind sent sparks across the narrow cobblestone street and the fire consumed three buildings to the east of the far of Herald News office and recrossed the street to ignite the 84year-old granite block opposite city hall. The fire tore through the city center, sparing only the municipal

building and the merkantile structure to the south. In 8 hours, it leveled 36 buildings. The loss was estimated at $187 million adjusted for inflation, but that figure did not include the valuable personal property and numerous buildings destroyed in the blaze. The fire's zigzag course after it swept back across Picassa Street, wiped out the three plant complex of the Picasset Mill,

spread northily for another half block, then easterly and around the far of a globe building to destroy the Bethl synagogue and threaten the New England telephone exchange. As fire licked at the phone building, tons of water poured all over the phone lines and made them out of order. And the single link the city had with the entire outside world was a direct line from the Fall River

Line office to its Boston headquarters in South Station. Before the fire was out, firefighting crews and apparatus had come from the city of Boston, Providence, New Bedford, LOL, Newport, Taton Brockton Somerset Swansea Westport, Tividan, Bristol, and other communities. The National Guard and the Naval Reserves were mobilized. The state police came from many barracks throughout the state, including in the

far western reaches of the Commonwealth.

President Calvin Kulage offered to help uh and placed at the disposal of municipal officials the facilities of the Army and Navy bases in the area. It was 2:30 a.m. before Chief Sullivan declared that the fire was under control. And it was 4 days later that the last fire vehicle was recalled from the devastated and still smoking ruins.

In addition to the Picasset Mill, Bethl El Bethl synagogue, and the Granite Block, buildings destroyed included the Moheaggan and Wilbur hotels, Rialto and Premier theaters, Western Union and Postal Telegraph offices, seven cottage broker establishments, four banks, the Independent, the French newspaper building, and a number of industrial insurance mercantile lawyers and doctor's offices. No one was killed, but

one city firefighter died of pneumonia as a result of battling the flames.

Hospitals treated 250 people for injuries, but only 25 people were kept overnight. So, I just ask that you please learn from history and please don't play with fire.

Thank you. Thank you.

No one else signed up for time. Now, we'll go into item number two. Motion to lift item two from the table. Second.

Motion to lift item two from the table has been made and seconded. All in favor? Any opposed? Motion carries.

Going to continue discussion for the proposed fiscal year 2026 municipal budget as follows. First, we'll have public safety. We'll have the police come down um and give their presentation or overview of what they want and we can ask questions.

Welcome. Could everyone please give their name and what department you're with? So just what know who you're talking to? People at home will know who's presenting. Mr. President. Yes.

Fire chief's here, right? Yes.

Police chief. I received notice counselor that she was unable to attend today. I'm not sure. She was unable to attend a budget meeting. Maybe someone there can inform us. She's on vacation I believe. So I received notice today and I said listen if we'll have the meeting if we need to have her come back next week or two weeks from now when we convene she'll come back. But I wasn't

going to cancel the police interview but if you guys want we can ask whatever questions or we can continue this two weeks from now. How this comes like weeks in advance. I scheduled this clip and tell you it's been a while.

You received an email. Yes.

Council see when you're the I'm just curious. I got a council saying they they received an email. I had to reschedle. I wasn't able to be here last yesterday because I had to work like we were. No, I get it.

But was it from the mayoff? It was from the church herself. She sent me Well, it's nice that she sent you a text or an email. You're sharing information.

It's a I guess it's an important engagement. I I'm I don't think you need to justify why anyone's here or not. No, no. I'm willing to Wow. have her come back because I think it's important. I agree. I would agree. I think it's important for her to come be before us because there was controversy with her appointment. We can ask us very specific questions on things that she's doing in

the department. So I'm I'm willing to do that. So let's see when you have the floor. Listen, I just have an issue of the fact that we got the fire chief.

I've got specific questions for the fire chief. Every other department, all department showed up yesterday. Yes.

Right.

And nothing no disrespect to the individuals that are before us, but I've got specific questions to the individual who has been appointed by the mayor and the city council to leave the the the police department. Right. That's it's the budget. So, I'm going to ask leadership questions to individuals that really don't control or have any say or ability to make changes in the police

department. You don't have to counsel. I we can we we I put it on the agenda like you said weeks ago. She's unable to be here. We can have this discussion two weeks from now. I can Can I ask the administration? You you folks are okay with that?

I only found out today myself.

As the interim chief finance officer, you just found out today that the police chief is not going to be here for budget. My understanding is that it was scheduled through the clerk's office and that the responses were going to be handled that way. And so I I just assumed that if it wasn't rescheduled that they would be here. So that was my $27 million budget, right? 27 million24,186.

Come back.

I'll make a motion that we postpone this meeting to a later date. Not the meeting. No, just you have no questions for these people here. I council. I think it's important that whatever the will of the council is is what I want to know. agre I'll make that motion. I'm not even I'm not sure why I'm here.

That motion, please. What is your motion council? The motion is to postpone the police department to a later date in order to have the newly appointed chief present. Okay. Motion has been I still have I still have the floor. I just want I just want to point out 284 full-time officers. So maybe you might have questions about that $27 million budget.

I'm just going to continue to go on because it's just it's it's absolutely appalling that we don't have a department head before us. It's also appalling that yet again communication is not shared amongst all members of the city council. I didn't realize when we got elected that it was based on maybe positioning of where you came in in a popularity vote or if you are on a public safety committee or anything like

that. Last time I checked, the only time that we have any authority whatsoever is as a committee as as a whole.

I didn't receive any information that she wasn't going to be here. Maybe if I knew that, I would have planned to to do what I had plans to do. I had to cancel my plans.

I got children, too, you know, right?

So, I'm just saying with that, I yield.

Thank you, Council. Point of information, Mr. President, when is the chief's vacation back so we can make sure it's within our budget deliberations? I know we're not here next week, right? Correct. We're going to hear the following week. Is she back from vacation then? Do you know? My understanding is the chief will be back next week. Next week. Okay. So, she she uh she informed me that she had a family

commitment tonight that had been uh scheduled well in advance and couldn't move it. Okay. So, she'll be here in two weeks.

Going to just make sure. Quite honestly, had I known I could have scheduled it and had her come at a different date.

Like, Mr. President, can I just say this isn't a reflection on you. This is No, no, I know that. I just want to make that clear. I got the call today as well and I was like, you know, I'm like, listen, we will have them come down and if par doesn't have questions for the people who are going to answer the questions. If not, we'll see you in two weeks. I think it's important, which is

what seems to be the other council wants to be. I'm I'm ready to cut $10 million from the police department budget and give it over to the five department so they can fix their buildings.

I just counc um I would just like to apologize.

I'm late. Boston traffic. I had to pick up my granddaughter from the airport, but I made every effort to get here. Not you say anything, counselor. Not dressed for normally how I dress. So, I apologize for that. No apologies necessarily. That I yield. Now, are we going to listen to what these gentlemen have to say or are they going to come back? It's up to the council. You want

to hear what they have to say and then if we want to wait to ask questions later, you want to ask question, it's up to the council. There's a motion on the on the floor that the chief come in two weeks from now. That's fine with me with along Does anyone have any questions for the two gentlemen along with this along with these gentlemen for the budget? Do you have any questions for them

counselor? Is that what the motion is?

I'd ask my colleague that's what the motion is. Okay, then I'll second it.

Let's reschedu it. Yes. Okay. Motion hasn't made to have the police department come back. Not next week, the week after. We'll we'll put it in um I'm not sure what date. Mr. president through you just cuz I can't contain myself cuz that's just who I am. Um I'm going to ask my colleague in seat six to uh co-sponsor a letter to um send to the police chief as we um what was the the phrasing

what's the circumvent circumventing leadership or something like that. Uh abuse of power. I'm sorry. Yeah. I want to abuse my power and send a letter to the uh police chief and articulate how disappointed I am. with the fact that she did not number one communicate to the city council or have the the decency to and the respect to to communicate to the city council either through the city

clerk, the president uh or the mayor's office to give us the common decency to let us know that she wasn't going to be here. Okay? And then I'd also like a response from the mayor's office why we think that's okay. As an administrator, when I go to town meeting, if any of my department heads don't show up to town meeting to be prepared to speak to a budget, I would absolutely have them terminated.

I yield.

Thank you, Council. Motion is So, let me get this straight. Prior to taking this vote, is there anyone that wants to ask any questions of members that are here now?

Representative Bonnet. No, I want the chief here. Okay. Correct. All right.

So, motion has been made and seconded.

All in favor? I. Any opposed? Motion carries. Sorry. Coming down, gentlemen.

Thank you. We'll see you in a couple weeks.

Mr. President, can I ask one question?

Absolutely. Is there anything that the gentleman have to give to us that they were prepared to give to us? Gentlemen, do you have anything to give to us before you depart? It's already done.

No, sir. We're just here to answer any questions that you may Not we're not going to listen. We just No, it was a question if there was something that was they were prepared to go over if we could look at ahead of time. That was my question. Chances are the client was, but we'll see. Thank you, gentlemen.

Thank you. Thank you.

Sorry guys.

Next, continue on with the hob master.

That's also police. It's also police department. Police department. Where is the hob master? He's not here either, Jose. That's so the police department budget part of that. So you guys were going to answer for the fire hover as well. Yes, sir. Okay, that's fine. We'll do fire and emergency management agency.

Just come down together. Council seat 7 counc. Thank you. I'll let them come down first. Chief, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. If I could request if we could take care of the EMA budget first. I get a feeling that one might be a little quicker than the fire. Um and that way uh director Aguiar can leave if he needs to at any point long as he takes the evacuation.

Council in seat six council I'm sorry chief. Do you want to give a presentation for us or an explanation or No. Okay. Can everyone at the table please just introduce themselves so the people at home know who speaking to the counselors? Emily Arpi in director of finance. Thank you. Jeffrey Bacon, fire chief. Barrett Castro, administrative assistant to the fire chief. Uh Richard a director chief of special services

council Mr. President I believe he had you recognized him first. Oh I thought he just raised his hand now I thought you raised your hand before. No it's him.

You recogn I'll go first. Thanks. Thanks.

You took it right away. I don't have anything for you but I do have stuff for the chief. So I'll yield the floor if anybody has anything for you. I I will seat seven couch proposal.

Excellent. Good evening everyone. Uh Mr.

Aguar, so question on your department which again I think does a excellent job for very little that you you get moneywise. But let's talk about the grants you get. What how much grants did you get last year to support EMA?

Um received one EMPG grant in the amount of 36,500 and I received a SE grant in the amount of 5,000. Okay.

It is my understanding and and every time there's been a fire and even when I've experienced itselves, you guys, your volunteers, yourself are all there doing a fabulous job. Um, we commend you. The real question is, and it's kind of straight at straight, very straight question to you. They only pay you $29,000 to do what you do. Yes.

Why? I know it's very straight, but it's um so when I became EMA director 25 years ago, um the salary was $2,000 and my pred predecessor, Bill Tany, uh never went to the city council or to the mayor to increase that. So, as emergency management progressed, um you know, everybody thinks that we just do lighting at different events and stuff. emergency management there's so much stuff um

other than that it's it's a it's almost like a full-time job and those who see me in my office every day can relate to that I'm always on the computer doing stuff evacuation plans so forth and so on um every year I kept asking for an increase so um this is the increase that I received over 25 years that's a shame Mr. president through you. Is this is this a situation of ordinance? It would

be. Yes. Okay. So, yeah. I I I want to just say this because I know the firefighters are here. Um they can attest to what my guys do for them on the fire ground. Absolutely. Um rehab operations with water with Gatorade and wet towels, dry towels. Um somebody said to me one time, "You know, you guys are a godscent." And I kind of said, "Well, we probably are because um as they can

teams for some of the aging equipment they have. Years I've given other amounts um that was needed. Um so if in fact we can share the money, we do share the money.

It it's a a very valuable partnership between yourself and the fire department and what you do. I mean and I can I can attest to witnessing it myself. You remember for years ago, literally in the middle of a Portuguese feast in Flint and 500 ft from the school that I'm a principal at, there was a fire of an apartment house and I watched the fire department fight that fire and you folks

support them in that in that process.

And considering the amount of people that were down there at that point on a was it Saturday night or Sunday night?

Yeah. During the feast was uh was impressive um and greatly appreciated.

but also as an educator in in this city, um I know the other side of what you do.

The emergency management plans that you produce that show up at my door, literally done, already squared away. It it and I go, "Wow, thank you very much."

And the fact you get paid $29,000 to do that and more is is atrocious to me. Um so if it's a question of ordinance, we we need to look into that and I'll I'll I'll sponsor a resolution to speak to the ordinance committee on that. So, point of information is $25,000 in ordinance is the salary for the uh EMA director and then the rest is made up by a stipen for being the um special services

chief. Thank you, Chief. That that makes me even a little more angry about it, but I'll look into that for you.

Um, Chief Bacon, to you, I'm gonna say right off the bat, I'm not happy with the budget and as of right now, I'm not supporting the fire department budget and because to me, it doesn't do what it needs to do. Okay. My biggest gripe for this is the capital improvements or lack thereof. Agreed.

Right. I share that with you. The lack of long-term investment, a plan, how we're going to address it, doesn't work for me. And I've I've sat in this seat long enough now to see that it hasn't really gotten much better as far as how we plan on addressing the purchase of apparatuses long term because again the lead time on them takes too long and as of right now I'm I'll have more

questions and I'll yield the floor to my colleagues because I know they want to ask questions to Mr. Aguar but as of right now I'm not happy with where it stands. I yield. Thank you. Thank you.

Council C2, Council Dang, you have questions for Mr. Good evening. How are you? Good, thank you. I have two questions.

R&M vehicle repair and maintenance. Yes.

Do you have you have vehicles? Yes, we have um we uh management has um four vehicles. So, one is my my cruiser. Um we have a rehab truck, a lighting unit, and a special operations vehicle. So, all this has been purchased through grants as well. Um the fire department maintains our vehicles for us. They also fuel the vehicles. Um but this uh vehicle maintenance fee in here is for

minor um stuff that we need to do on the trucks. Okay. Well, um the reason I'm bringing it up and I guess I would address it to you is that that line item has a zero. Um so that that is something that wasn't necessarily my choice or decision. It it looks like it was moved from the R&M vehicle line to the parts and accessories line because it you know there's nothing in the parts and

accessories in 24 and then where there's nothing moving forward it's now below in the parts and accessories. I don't know the full background on why that move happened but that's what you're seeing.

Okay. I believe it's to line up with our parts and accessories line which would ours would be called that. So I think it was just to to name it the same as ours.

All right. Yeah. Because parts and accessories in 24 was zero, but then the revised budget in 25 was 2500, projected to,550 and now back at 2500. Correct. So what you're saying is it's pots, accessories, repair and maintenance essentially. Yes. Okay. Thank you.

That's it. I see one. Thank you. So Mr.

Aki, I heard you were on vacation. Uh just go back today and talk. You did.

You did. I heard I heard you flew back early for us.

Is that true? Back to get here. I can tell you that you did. Clean was delayed. Yes. How do you know that? It's It's funny what I find out. I guess. So, I want to say thank you for being here and rushing back early to be here for the budget. I've got no questions to be here. I got I have no questions for you other than to say thank you for coming

back and and uh answering questions for my colleagues and myself and I fully support your budget. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, councelor Councelor C5.

Council vice president program. Mr. Aya, you have medical insurance now? Yes.

Through you or through your wife or No, no, I have my my own through the city.

You have your own? Yes. Okay. So, that was done. Not done yet. Yes. A few years back when you and I had a conversation about the stipen that you were getting and I was instrumental in getting you that raise and getting you the health insurance. Right. That's correct. I agree with my colleague uh council repos that 295 isn't a lot for everything that you do. Um how many volunteers do you have? 18.

And all the training that you do with them. Can you tell us a little bit about that because I know you do a lot of training with them.

So um to be a member of my organization you have to go you have to fill out an application.

um Corey check. We used to do Corey checks and it's a six-month training program where you do in-house training.

We do everything from fire ground safety, uh emergency management operations, EOC, um procedures. Uh we are mandated by EMA to do certain things because we are part of emergency management, right? Um so within that six month and three-month period is when they actually will go on the fire ground to do rehab for the firefighters. Um and this is all part of their training.

um they have to take three exams. Um first ent exam they study for out of an SOP book. Then the second two exams is exams on the vehicles themselves, the equipment, what to do when they arrive on scene, how to do rehab, rehab operations. Um so they then there's a final exam. They have to pass that as well. So um the training is significant for a volunteer group. And I want to say

this, um, I have the best of the best because they're all dedicated. They love what they do. And, um, once again, they ask no money for what they do except sometimes a pat on the back and thank you very much for what we for what they do. Um, my officers, they just don't become officers. Um, they have to take an LTEN's exam, a captain exam. Um, they get promoted because they have to know

everything about the organization. Um, so the people that I have under me, they're not just off the street. They're well trained and um, when they help these guys, they know what they're doing. It's not like they're fumbling all over the place. And I think they can attest to that as well. So, I can attest to that, but I can attest to the type of leader you are and what you do for the

men and women that you have um, in your group. But I will uh support councelor proposing putting something into ordinance to see if we can raise uh your salary up a bit. You need it and um I know there is something coming up um for your department. I received something on it and I already responded um to be there. Yeah, we um so because we have the railroad coming in um part of being

the EMA director, we mitigate before a situation that happened, right? So, I sent out a letter alert to city council as well, everyone, that we're having a tabletop exercise, fire headquarters on June the 10th at 10:00 a.m. Um, participants will be police, fire, EMS, um, Shelton Hospital, St. An's Hospital, uh, Rland Hospital, Metflight is coming in. Um, so what I want to do is I want

to get all these groups together so we can unify and command if we have a situation at the railroad, how we're going to work together as a team and it's important that we do that and I spoke to the chief so he's agreed 100% with this and um it's also going to give us credit because LAPC we have to do one large tabletop exercise a year and this

is going to give us credit for the u the city and this is once again how it uh allows us to get federal grants. We have these tabletop exercises and I think the tabletop exercise on the new railroad um coming in being proactive is always the best way to be. So with that, I thank you and your team for your service and especially you know all that they do provide for the city along with for the

firefighters but for our community.

Thank you so much. With that I yield Mr.

President. Thank you councelor Cat 6 council ponty. Thank you Mr. President.

Okay, Chief, I have nothing for you, sir. I have questions for you if I may.

Okay. Anybody else have questions for you? Okay. So, we had a discussion. Um, so Mr. Agar, you're free to go. Okay, Mr. President, I'll yield. I did have something to say. I'll sorry, I rose my hand, just real quickly. I'm not going to I mean, the budget looks fine to me.

I agree with the other councils about the pay raise, but just uh um working with you um consistently and uh talking to you consistently about every aspect of your what your department does. But also too, thank you very much for your work in the chiefs with the work on the rail situ, you know, and what go going down the road and you got the we got the plan in hand and I'm I think it's going

to be very good. And I was going to remind everyone about June 10th, but you already did that and I'll be there. So I yield. Thank you.

Thank you everyone. Thank you Mr. Thank you Mr.

Thank you, Mr. President. All right, chief. Uh, question for you. Sure. Did you get any ORPA money? We did. How much? Since I've been chief, um, we received $60,000 from ARPA to purchase uh, ladder 3, our um, reserve ladder truck. And are you still getting fun uh funding from the community development agency for apparatus when you Absolutely. So all our apparatus is still under on loans from CDA. Okay,

great. Thank you for that. Yep. Um in terms of the capital to my colleague to my left's point um we got this capital improvement plan some months ago um that spoke in FY25. The fire department was going to see uh fire engine 2 get replaced. That's an FY26.

Well, it's been moved to 26 now. Yes.

So, is that going to be part of this fiscal year's budget? That is. It was submitted. Is it part of this budget?

For the record, no capital is in the budget, first of all, as requested by council at the last meeting, but also that is part of the capital plan, and we don't fund the one-time purchases in the annual line item. So it's not that that won't happen in 26 from the general fund. It just the funding mechanism still needs to be decided. So hold on a second. That's confusing. Yeah. So let me just make one thing

clear. You have no capital at all in for any departments or just the fire department in this budget for any department. So how are we going to be handling capital needs? So, as you recall, when that $1.3 million was cut from water sewer, it was then said that capital should be pulled out and we should handle that. However, we we need to handle it. So, it's it's going to be handled through the capital. Who said that?

One of you. It doesn't really Yeah, it really doesn't matter who said it. We don't build the budget, but I'm just saying. So, the budget, you took $1.3 million out of the operating budget because the city council cut the revenue cut the revenue from the water department um return back to the city in sorry indirects. Correct. Correct.

That's interesting. I I will also say that something like a firetruck for a million dollars would never be a single line item in an operating budget. bond for it and I get it would be part of the debt service that would still fall under the capital line item in here. Right.

But do you but so so like this the more we get into this and I'm going to get into my questions for you chief but the more we get into this it's it's it's causing me even more heartburn as I look into this budget deeper and deeper and deeper. Okay. We have and I'm going backwards because I'm going to make a point. So I would appreciate you. I don't mind making a

point, Carla, but the chief is here.

Yeah, I'm going to get to it because we have no capital needs in the fire department budget and I want to know the answer as to why we don't. Cuz we're funding it through something other than the general fund operating budget. How are you funding it? So, we have discussed that a new capital plan will be done early fall. I don't have all of that worked out yet. We've all discussed

in multitude that the previous capital plans have not been as um operational as they could and should be and haven't been utilized or built the way that they need to be for them to be actual plans for us to follow. So, it needs to be rebuilt and I'm I'm going to need some time. We've had conversations. You know, we are committed to giving every department what they need to operate and

to operate successfully. It's it's just working out all of those funding mechanisms between debt, between onetime money, between grants, between already existing capital, leftover money. So, all of that just needs to sit down and to just, you know, say that it's going to be something when we don't have all of that worked out would be also unfair and misleading. I get the fact and I've

heard great reviews on how you've handled this budget process from department heads that I've spoke to. So, I appreciate that very, very much. This isn't a direction in my opinion on you as an individual. It's just me trying to fully understand the first time I have been through a budget process with you and I'm trying to understand your thought process going into the rest rest of the fiscal year going into next year

as to why we have no capital needs within the entire budget because candidly next year we have you the city has been going through not under your leadership as a CFO but has been using opera money to balance um their budgets number one. Number two, to take all capital out. And this year and next year, we're not going to have that opera infusion to be able to address capital needs. Last night, I asked Stephanie in

traffic, what are we doing it? She doesn't need anything. The fire department needs capital needs. The police department have capital needs. I don't understand, and this isn't necessarily as a result of you. I candidly don't even understand why we do capital improvement plans anyway because every single time we do capital improvement plans year-over-year in FY25 we were should we should have seen a

fire engine 2 get replaced but now it's been moved to 26. We should have seen replacement of station appliances in 2025 for 15,000. Did that happen? No. Uh in in a fire ground accountability system for $90,000. Did that happen yet?

That was supposed to be in 2026. Probably not because we have no capital in the budget. Did we replace 68 windows at the center street east and west side of the building for 278,000? No. My point is we have these capital plans and we don't even follow them. So why do we do them? Why are we going to do please help me understand this? Yes, absolutely. Why are we going

to do another capital plan in the next couple of months when we didn't follow the current one that we already have that that was expressed to us that goes from June 30th, 2025 to June 30th, 2029.

So my understanding is that the the whole purpose I mean by ordinance we are required to make those capital plans and when that was set up in the way that they had previously been done they were helpful, useful, livable documents that were followed. My understanding is the last couple of years it turned into a checkbox because it was required to be done and it wasn't being done the way it

needed to be to get to there. And I am a firm believer, I mean, for for me to manage a budget of this size. Yep. I need a plan like that that I know what's going to happen. Appreciate that, Chief.

What is it exactly that you need in fiscal year 20126? Be honest with us.

Yeah. Okay. That you need for capital needs for the Fall River Fire Department. We need a pump. You need a We need an engine. And several months ago, I was given the green light to purchase that um by the city administrator. and we have already begun the process of looking into uh setting up a committee and looking into making that purchase and we're going to keep moving forward with that until we're

told we can't purchase it. Okay. So, where are you going to get the money from?

The capital uh the capital budget. You have a capital budget? I don't, but I submitted it and that's that's what I'm moving forward with. We we had a discussion that it'll be funded not through this one line item. I mean, there was a million-doll request in that line item and that that is not possible or sustainable or the way it would be done. So, we made the commitment that

yes, we are buying it in 26 and the funding mechanism. There's conversations with CDA happening about whether they're going to be the ones purchasing it or taking that on or if we're going to do it through debt or if we're going to do it through onetime money because as much as yes, I know that there will be multiple purchases that may be needed over the years, purchasing that one

truck is a is a onetime expense to buy a truck. So we are we are working through that and again it's it is a long process so we do have time to figure out exactly how it's going to happen because the process did start before me. So what that plan was I'm not fully sure of but I can guarantee you it was never to put a million dollar line item in. So what

is this committee going to do? It's just just like a So it's every it's So what we do is uh before we purchase an apparatus we form a committee uh from the company the fire company that the apparatus will go to. So, in this case, it's engine 2. So, there'll be a group of individuals from engine 2 who will um spec look at the specs and work on the truck and make sure it's exactly what

they want and need for their particular uh portion of the city, for their particular area. How long does it take to get a engine two truck? So, three years. Three years. Well, the other thing we're looking at is there's a couple companies now that have come out with um non-custom uh stock trucks that can be delivered in a a much shorter period of time, less than a year, and costs $1 to $150,000 less. You see my

point? You're making my point. you're making my point is the fact that there's literally no planning ever done and it's like let's hurry up and do it now because uh President O Reagan just came down and he's making these these claims which I believe him to be that we have engine trucks that are getting shut down that are not working. They're not getting shut down. What? Engine trucks

haven't been shut down in the last year.

No. Apparatus hasn't been shut down in the last year. Nope. Never.

They're breaking down. Oh, breaking down. They're breaking down. I'm sorry.

Yes. Therefore, if they're breaking down, they're not in operation in my opinion. Like you you usually drive a broken down engine truck. No. Okay. So, my point is this. There's no planning done. This isn't your fault. There's no planning done as a result of capital improvement plans in this city overall.

None. It just doesn't happen. We check boxes. That's not proactive government.

That's nothing other than check a box, supply an ordinance, and then we'll just throw the paper away because we're not going to do anything with it. And that we got we got to get better than that. I don't care if the room was filled with firefighters or nobody here. It's the right thing to do and that's where we got to start doing. And I can appreciate your honesty and telling me that that's

what was done before and hopefully we won't have to do that again. And maybe that we'll have an action plan set up so that the fire department and the police department and other departments have the necessary apparatus they need to run their departments. So, I'm not I'm going to stop on that because I'm getting more annoyed by it. What is the useful life on an engine? Uh NFPA says they should

be front line for 20 20 years. We have uh capital. Go ahead. Yeah, I was going to say I will say that on on the bonding side that might be an equipment technical side, but on the from the financing side, we say five years. Okay.

So, 10 years front line, I'm sorry. And then it can become a ready reserve after that. So, I want to pivot to a comment that I made to you, Chief, a couple of months ago when we had our budget meeting, I believe, or a quarterly update or something. And I I think I challenge you a little bit to do some research and see what other communities are doing when it comes to fire

inspections, uh, when it comes to commercial buildings. Correct. I find it to be an u inadequate. I find it to be unfair that when you have a commercial building that's 30,000 square feet, you have the fire department go to the building, test it, look at it, push the buttons, do whatever they do, right? And they don't charge for it. They don't charge an actual inspection to give a certificate of occupancy. You have a

residential dwelling that by by purchase of a sale or refinance or whatever is necessary, and you charge a homeowner $50 to give you a certificate of compliance. Correct. on a commercial maybe it's a three family or a six family and maybe it's 75 or 100 whatever the prices are today. Okay. And that department does quite well for the city because you generate income into our general fund which we need more of.

Okay. So um did you do any research at all on that? And is there a possibility that when you have the certificates of compliance for the fees that we would be able to look at increasing that for more money either for one or two things for the general fund which it's sorely needed or B to have an account that is set up set aside pushed aside in a revolving account so that we can have a

fund for the police for the fire department when it comes to apparatus upgrades and maintenance. Yeah. So, I've uh reached out with the Bristol County Fire Chiefs to find out which communities in our area are doing that and New Bedford is one of them. Um, so I've spoken with Chief Krueger from New Bedford and it will come down to um how who does the inspections and how they get done would really be the biggest

stumbling block. But there's no actual Mass General law that prohibits the city of looking at a 100,000 square foot facility in the industrial park that's going to take your your personnel down to look at and inspect it to make sure it's safe by signing a certificate of occupancy or issuing a certificate. You we can't start a process now through ordinance where we can Yeah, I believe

it's I believe it's possible. I just would have to figure out the biggest stumbling block would be who is going to do those inspections. Who does them now?

um the fire prevention bureau, right? So anyway, it's happening already. Well, no, they're not doing commercial inspections. They're doing plans review.

They're doing inspections on new systems, but they're doing it and they're not charging. That's my point.

Nope. There there is a fee for uh for the plans reviewing for new new buildings. But when you go out on site and inspect a commercial building that's going to be sold, you don't do that, but you do it for a residential, do you? No.

We'll inspect the fire alarm system in that new building. Right. That's what we'll inspect in the new building.

Correct. Do you charge? We do charge.

It's a small fee. It's like plans review fee is 5 cents per square foot. Not for sale of a commercial building. Okay. So, here's what I would I'm going to ask just as one counselor.

Okay. Hold on one second. Counselor, please. If anyone has something to say, please walk outside those doors and talk. We can't have discussion going on here while the council speaking. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. So, here's what I would I'm just as one counselor going to ask that if you could send a letter to the council president to get it to the city council and have a

suggestion for us to maybe have a a ordinance get it get it referred to ordinance so the ordinance committee could review the fees for the Fall River Fire Department because I will tell you that the work that some department heads have done in this city by looking at fees for service has done wonderful work for their departments. A perfect example is Mr. Aguiar's department. When you

look at planning, what he's been able to do at look at some of the fees and the money that he's generated over the last two years has been all but a miracle and it doesn't necessarily impact the taxpayer as we're going for more money here and there. So, I'm going to really ask that you do that with a philosophy behind having the a percentage of the residential and commercial rates and

commercial to be put into a revolving account for fire apparatus. So, currently it's what $50 for an inspection for a single family. What is stopping us? Because if you think about it, somebody's going to be selling their home and they're going to be giving a hundred $50 for a fire two firefighters to go into most likely two to go in and check their CO their smokes or their hardwired smoke detectors. Okay. And

then they they got to get $50 for that.

Why why can't that go to 75 or 100? and you take 50 of that inspection or 25 of that inspection and put it into an account that will allow you to work on apparatus upgrades over the next four or five or six or 10 years. You might have a considerable amount of money in there so we don't have to continue to bond for for things or sit here and say, "Oh,

let's hope that we can get this money or maybe we'll find this funding mechanism or maybe we'll get CDA." What if CDA is not here? What if the Trump administration decides they're not going to give as much federal funding to cities and towns? I I do just want to clarify on that. It's not that that's how we will always operate. It's that at this point in time when I haven't sat

down to build a plan that I I don't know yet, but once there's a plan, it it will be a plan with solid. I believe you, but the track record of the city of Fall River is we do plans and they sit on shelves. So, I I I I know you have the best of intentions and I know if you were in charge of it, you would probably get it done, but I don't believe the

longevity of the city's history of doing plans and doing anything with them other than putting them on shelves. So, as we discussed earlier, I believe Chapter 148 kind of handcuffs us on a lot of our max fees for these inspections. I will look into it, but even if that is the case, I'm more than open to writing a letter for ordinance that percentage of our current revenues. Well, I can tell you

as a real estate broker that $50 in the city of Fall River for a residential fire inspection is low. You go to Doorchester, it's $125. You go to Brockton, it's hundred. I can tell you because I do that for a living. And Fall River is 50 and it's been 50 for a while. All right. My point isn't to go after the the individuals, the homeowners or anything like that. It's

to have a proactive plan to have a revolving account or a savings account set aside for apparatus updates. Y because how much do you generate in that $50 fee in this municipal budget that we have right now, Chief? $150,000 $150,000 a year and that's been consistent over the last several years.

Correct?

Yeah. Okay. So, let's just say we add 50 to that and 50 goes into a reserve account and in the next five years you have $100,000. You now have $500,000 that you can plus to use for fire apparatus upgrades. 250 what? 250,000.

If you have a if you get $150,000 a year and you add another 50 to it and you bring in 150, you have $100,000 for the next five years. You're going to have over $500,000 in a revolving account.

I'll trust you%. You said I Well, they're bringing in $50 per inspection.

Call it that they bring in $150,000. If you double the inspections cost, you'll get double the money, right?

So, I'd like to see that happen. Um I want to go back into the um the fire stations now. Yep. Um you have nothing in your municipal budget here at all to upgrade the fire stations. No, I think that uh I've expressed my uh frustration with my situation in my stations to this council before. um we occupy them, but I have no control over what uh happens in them as

far as funding or being able to get repairs done other than um requesting that through the uh facilities department.

Okay. Are there projects that are currently on the radar that are being slowed down that I could speak to Mr.

Olive about when he's here next two weeks from now? Uh yeah, so we have a grant for fire alarm systems in uh three of the buildings uh through FEMA that is I believe 130 or $140,000 uh that I'm going to need to file for an extension on and cross my fingers and hope that uh I get it because it's expiring. It's been two years and we haven't been able to get much movement

forward uh in getting those alarm systems installed. Okay. Could you send um me an email and share it with my colleagues in terms of your current capital projects that you have planned that you already have funding for that are not moving along so we can have it as a as a council so that we're prepared to speak to the facilities department in terms of getting an explanation as to

why that's that's taking so long. Sure.

And I and I know we're talking about operations and not budget right now, but this is essentially a budget item that isn't in your budget that needs to get done because it's it's tiring to me that we haven't got anything done in the last couple years. Now, your overtime, I notice, has gone up. Um and and and I am in, you know, support of seeing that um continue to be managed the way you have

been managing it. Um, Chief, I think you've done a good job of trying to recognize that you have a budget and you usually try not to go above your budget, but I noticed it went up. Why? Overtime went up because our uh staffing number is has maintained stagnant. So, um, overtime costs went up because of the arbitration ruling last year. So, it was naturally going to go up um because

wages went up. But um because we are staffed atund I believe right now we're at 179. Yep. Uh with four um hires that will be starting in the academy in October. Um but because of that our overtime costs go up. Okay. You have a buyback too for $50,000. Is that for That's going to be a program that we roll out. We did it last year to some success where we offer anybody who has a

vacation essentially in the summer at our peak overtime, our peak vacation time to uh sell back that week at flat cost to save us the 50% uh overtime cost. Okay.

Um I noticed there there I think there was a typo for whatever it's worth when it comes to the stipens. I thought I saw two different numbers. Um, I can get offline with you on that. I think the one one of the pages said and um I think one said for stipens or is that police? Hold on. Point of information. Yep. Fire. I'm sorry. Yep.

Page 131 303 404. Page 137 306450.

You get that? There's two different numbers for fire stipens. Which is the accurate number? I know we're only talking about $3,000. It's it's multiple the stipens are are rolled in together.

So there's a couple of stipens that add up to that. So you have two separate stipens for the fire department. One for 303 and one for 306.

303.

Yeah. Page 131. It's 303,44 if you add all the stipens. DCA stipen, on call stipen, technology stipen, snow stipen, repairman certification stipen, EMT certification stipen, EMT education stipen, opiate training stipen. If you add those together, it comes to 30344.

I'm not going to make a big deal of it other than just check your numbers because the numbers don't add up. I feel like we did actually go through and check that at the last minute. I'll let you guys deal with that. You can get us a supplemental whenever you have the chance to. I just don't know what number is correct and I want to make sure we do that.

Um I will I want to conclude in a moment but I just want to I want to recognize that this department brings in how much money altogether every single fiscal year or let's just talk about how much do you anticipate generating an income from your department in fiscal year 2026?

It's roughly $650,000. And how does the fire department for the people at home and for the council generate $650,000? What is it that you do for services? So inspections um and the the only other thing other than um permits and inspections from our fire prevention bureau uh is our um the box alarm fees, right? I would consider that to be a permit. So any commercial property that's that's connected or protected by

us um pays a fee to us every year. So they're all fire prevention based fees.

What is that average fee? Uh it's $300 a year. Yes.

Okay. Um do you charge to check elevators? Do you check elevators? We do not. Okay. All right. What? Keep going.

I'm sorry to interrupt. Um and then uh permits such as blasting, welding, uh waste oil tank removal. Uh and then the other the only unwell is the fire EMS call revenue uh which is part of their their grant that the EMS gets every year. They pay us a percentage of the PGE grant for based on the number of calls we respond to that are EMS calls that goes to the general fund.

Sure. Okay. And and just to be clear for everybody's edification, you're not relying on any kind of grant for staffing right now. Correct. We don't have a staffing grant. We have the uh mass the EOPS grant. uh the mass uh public safety staffing grant, but that that's an overtime grant. That's an overtime. So, what what I'm saying is you don't have buyer personnel that's base salary of whatever it is 987

whatever. No, we weren't allowed to put him for the safer grant last year. We tried.

All right. Well, first off, I Okay. Why Why did we try? Well, why why didn't you? What do you mean? You said I can't put in for a grant without uh approval from the administration. Why didn't we do that? That was before Emily's. Yeah, I was not. Listen, I would never say no to a grant. Are you going to apply for it this fiscal year? Uh we're moving forward as if we're going to get it much

like we are with engine two and then it'll be up to the administration to decide if it's something they want to they want to go through with. Okay. Keep us updated on that. Just a point of information. How much was the grant you were trying to apply for? Uh we were trying to put in for 10 positions last year. Thank you. Okay. Currently, five of your positions are paid through EMS.

Correct. Correct. Five. Five firefighter positions as well as their pension costs, their insurance costs, and everything is run through EMS. Correct.

Is there a plan to do more of that?

That that's a conversation that would be bigger than just myself, but it's something that I'm very open to if if that happens. But I know that the way that those positions are paid for, it's about the work and the share of work that's being done. So, I don't know.

That'd be a better question for the chief. Okay. I'm going to end by saying this, and I'm going to ask this of you, Chief, as we go forward. As long as I have the ability to be here, I I completely support the fire department, and I I I want to speak for my I'm not going to only speak for myself. I'll speak for this council for most of them

or all of them who also care very deeply about public safety as well. When we when we ask you going forward, what is it that this department needs? I've always been able to a answer that ask you that question and you've always been able to candidly give me an answer and I want that to continue. So when we find things out like there was 10 opport there was opportunities for you to get a

a grant that would have bring in 10 more firefighters or relieve your relieve your um your budget by 10 salaries to do other things. Whatever that may be, we need to hear more about that because if I wasn't ever going to ask that question, I would have never found that out. Okay, that's number one. Number two, we have to try to find a way, and I've said this before, I said it at

traffic last night, we have to find a way to be innovative and creative when it comes to bringing in new revenues for the city. We are going to have a moment, and we're kind of seeing it already right now, that we have a revenue problem. We don't, you know, we're not selling widgets, right? We need to try to figure out a way where we can bring in revenue and stop having to go to the

taxpayers for it. And there's ways to do it. go call Dan Aguiar in the engineering department to find out how is it that he looked at his fee structure and tried to find a way to increase fees where he could within Mass General Law to do that. And I want to implore you, Chief, toi to do that and get with this council to try to find a way where we can do that with a mindset

that we need to try to find a way to stop having to bond and get go get loans when we can we can put a safety net in place for fire apparatus. I've said that for years and I really want to see that happen. So I I'm going to look forward to a follow-up conversation with you and and uh thanks for all you do and thanks for your leadership and thanks for being

here. I yield. Thank you. Council seat 7 counc. Thank you, Mr. President. I just want to jump on a a question my colleague to my right asked me regarding the safer grant. I swear unless I was losing my mind the other morning, I heard in the news that there was the intention to apply for one. Is there any truth to that?

For what? Safe for grant. Okay. Okay.

So, I'm not I'm not crazy here. Chief from me. No, not you. It was it was it was it was in the press. I woke up one morning and when I hear the news in the morning, I heard that. Yeah. I absolutely I I move forward with every grant that comes my way. Uh Jasmine is fantastic. Jasmine Pereira in the mayor's office. She and I work very closely and we move forward with every

grant. That last safer grant we didn't apply for at noon on the day that it was due at 400 p.m. She and I were still working on the grant as if we were going to submit it. So we every grant that comes, we work on it and we get the basis for those grants and we we push forward with it until we're told we can't do it.

So clarify that statement. So it's your intention right now to apply for the safer grant. Yep. You do all the paperwork. Sure. Does that mean that it stops at the sixth floor when yes, we can submit it? No, we can't submit it.

They make the ultimate decision. This grant comes with a 25% match from the city in year 1, a 25% match in year two, and a 65% match in year three. I haven't found that it holds us to any uh maintaining any staffing level through the period of the grant. That was the uh hold up last time that if we applied for the 10 and it put us at 195, then we

were going to have to maintain 195 for three years. Um the city did not uh want to commit to that. um that was uh the former city administrator. Um now I don't believe and I read it pretty thoroughly today unless I'm missing something that that um that requirement is there to maintain that number for the life of the grant. But this year comes with the match which the previous one didn't. So it's not essentially free

money, but it is a good way to um to staff the fire department um for three years, you know, at a reduced rate. The goal would be to keep those 10 people on after the three years. Yeah. which which then essentially provides time to figure out how that will be funded. Correct.

Long term. That's the design of the the design of the safer grants isn't just long-term plan, right? They're not just to give you money to hire 10 firefighters for three years. They're designed for you to maintain that level moving forward. And it actually makes sense because you you can say okay now we're going to get a piece of this pie for the next year, two years, three years with the intention to then okay in

threeyear forecasts, fiveyear forecasts, we need x amount of dollars to support these additional positions that will then be absorbed into the budget.

Correct. Okay. Reasonable. And may I ask what the number of positions is, please?

10. You can put it for as many as you want. As many as you can maintain. And what and what in the last safer grant application that you in intended to file, what was it supposed to what were you looking for? 10 firefighters. 10.

And prior to that, previous chief. Previous chief. Do you do you have a sense? No. Okay. Good question. Find out later. Um, all right.

I'm going to ask some budget questions first. So, on page 132 of your budget, I just want some clarification um on what some of these line items actually do.

Absolutely. Hang on. Let me get I have Okay, I'm ready for you because when I when I read the numbers, I think, wow, that's not a lot of money. So, I'm just curious. So, preventative maintenance.

Preventative maintenance on what? So, that is clearly not the roofs of the firehouses. No, correct. That I think it's a mun thing where these the the descriptions really don't they have to fall into a certain box. Sure. So, preventative maintenance was the box they put that in. That is for maintenance of the Keltron system that um communicates the wireless wireless mesh system that communicates commercial

fire alarms in the city. I got that at school so I know what that is. Okay.

Um on that question, sure. And I'm just curious and and this will go back to a question that council Ponty asked. So and I'm going to use me because in my other role as a school principal, so we have people come in to do inspections of the things in the ceiling there. Smoke alarms. Yeah, I guess they're smoke alarms, sprinklers, things like that.

Yep. Just a crazy question. Why isn't that something the fire department doesn't do to then generate that revenue? Is that not something that you guys could do? Is that like a We don't have an enterprise fund. We don't have any way to do that. And I I was always under the impression that you can't compete with private business for for jobs that they do. You know, we we we used to fill fire extinguishers and I

was told we couldn't do that. This is years ago. Yeah. Yeah. before my time.

But um especially without an enterprise fund or any way to to support that, but also it would be a massive staffing increase too to be able to do those inspections. But what could be a on the other side of that bring in revenue? Yeah. To support the department. Absolutely. So is there anything to your knowledge that prevents that from happening or is it just a crazy pie in the sky

idea? I I think it's probably pie in the sky. I mean, we with our current staffing level, I couldn't take on anything that major, but but in but nothing stops it from down the road being a possibility. I have no idea, but I'm more than happy to look into that.

Could you please? Because I think it goes along to Council Ponty's point about I got my Cliff's notes now. I'm going to have my Andrew notes. Yeah, thank you. Add our notes together. Fair enough. All right, back to back to budget questions here. Okay, hold on one second. I don't write that fast. Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay. It is. Uh, good thing this is recorded. Okay, go ahead. Um, so going

to parts and accessories, which again I I'm curious because again, parts and accessories versus preventative maintenance of the difference of $300,000. Um, so what is the 36,713 for parts and accessories included? That's to fix the big trucks.

Fix the big trucks. Yes. That's all of our um Did it fix the Did it fix the one that got stalled?

Yeah, actually that ended up being a bent um a bent connector that the shift uh the shifter has a cable attached to it.

Then it connects up with a plate. That the hydraulics. The hydraulics. Was that the hydraulics? No, this is just the regular manual shift. Uh the shift for the truck to put it into drive, which is part of putting it into pump. Uh there was a plate that was bent slightly. uh straightened out the plate, reinforced it, and that truck was was back up in business. What did that cost you?

Nothing. Oh, our shop fixed it. You jumped right into my next question.

Sure. So, who who does the maintenance on the fire trucks? So, preventative maintenance and small maintenance is done by uh my repair shop at my facility. Uh they also serve as CMS vehicles. Um, anything largecale or uh warranty related or proprietary to the manufacturer, we send out. And locally, where does that go? Uh, well, we we try to keep it locally, but uh due to purchasing laws, sometimes it goes to

Rockland, sometimes it goes to uh Westport. We just um signed an agreement. The Eastn Fire Department uh runs a repair shop that charges significantly better hourly rates than anything around here and we just signed an agreement with them to be able to send out trucks there. So, we're hoping to see a a significant improvement in and and cost for repairing trucks next year. And just because I don't know this

and maybe council Kadim can address this to to council kadim, is there a threshold as far as an amount when it has to go to bid for repairs like that?

Yeah. Yeah. So 30B outlines the entire thing and it's not just for the fire department anywhere.

So where we circumvent 30B a lot of times we think it just we only go have to go out to bid if it exceeds for the fire department. It's not. So if if the police department is doing repairs for the same company and it exceeds the threshold then it it has to go out. So it's what is the citywide? It varies. So it's 100,000 for uh anything over 100,000 requires um sealed bids. Okay.

Thank you. So, for us it's anything over 50 requires sealed bids. Yeah, they they've got different Well, we're doing a blanket bid process for apparatus repairs this year. I've talked to Rebecca um and we're going to make sure that we are in complete compliance with that because it gets tricky. It's easy to uh to get tripped up with purchasing laws. So Mhm. So with back to the the

question, so sure FY25's revised budget was 382,18.

This year's proposed budget drops by $80,000. Correct.

That seems concerning. Yeah, I'm not sure that it actually did. Baron and I were looking at that. I thought we moved some of those. It was move. Yeah, we moved money into Yeah. So there was a lot of a lot of stuff. I'm going to say citywide, which I've kind of been mentioning along the way, um has been labeled unclearly or incorrectly. Um people were using whatever line items they had available and so then when

something new came in, they just said, "I have this line item, I'll put it with it." But it doesn't necessarily make sense sometimes or make things clear. So sometimes we're pulling things out to kind of make it make more sense. So if it was something that you know that was under the parts and accessories that maybe should have been preventative maintenance or should have been gasoline

or whatever it may be like you know we're just trying to pull it out and put it into the correct line so that it so to Miss Opy's point we actually budgeted 292,18 for FY25. I increased it 5% for FY26 to the 306 713. So the the revised budget just means that we made an amendment when we knew that costs were running high. Yeah.

And that's quite common in this. Okay, fair enough. Um going down to the the bottom line item which is firefighting equipment. Now I obviously understand what that means but but you don't because it's not what it's not what it is. Well, so I'm it sounds like what it sounds like, but what does it actually include? So that is another one that had to fit into a certain category in munus. That's for firefighting gear.

Um in 2016 or 17, uh, the city started purchasing gear for the firefighters.

Prior to that, we had to purchase our own gear. Um, so we've kept that every year and have managed to purchase just about second sets for just about all the firefighters. We've also gotten into purchasing lightweight gear this year to get um, it's the uh, it's it's something new that departments are doing. Um because the lightweight gear it's for extrication uh wildland firefighting or

medical calls. It can't be used for structural firefighting. Um but it's completely PASF free and about a quarter of the cost. So um we're encouraging the firefighters to wear that gear 90% of the time on the calls that they can and when they're going to structure potential structure fires to wear their um their gear that currently has the PAS in it. and uh obviously warmer and more

straining on them. So um so and now uh the gear's good for 10 years by NFPA. So we're getting into a cycle of replacement on that gear now, too. So that was going to be my next question.

So So we're talking about long-term planning. Are the are are we on par for a replacement of gear through the cycles that we're going through? We will be um we will be purchasing gear right now is about $3,500 a set to $3,700 a set. So, we will be starting that replacement cycle. Anyone using anyone using gear that's past its life cycle? If they are, then they should have let my training

division know and should have had it replaced.

Are you aware of any at this point? I am not. Okay.

Um let's go to vacancies in the department. I know we mentioned a little bit of it. How many current vacancies do you have in total in your department?

So, two and a half currently.

And that's that's a half of a um clerk. Yep. And two firefighters with two more retiring in July. Okay. So, the book says there are four vacancies. Just timing. Just timing, I believe.

I think it was timing with the academy class. Yeah. Can you say that? I think there was timing with the academy class that we got going in now. Okay. So, the ceremony that I attended some time ago.

Mhm. How many of them are online currently? Seven. Seven came in to the department. Yep. Okay. And what's what's the next year or so looking at as far as what's coming in next year? Uh we have four that are um scheduled for or have completed their physical ability test and uh we anticipate that they will be starting the EMS portion of their training on October 6th. So when we see them online as firefighters, it's

actually similar uh similar timeline to the last time. They'll start the academy in December and they'll be in the company in February or March.

I'm sorry, Chief. Repeat that one more time. So we're looking at February or March to have them in the company. Okay.

And how many retirements do you anticipate in the next 12 months? Uh so that you're aware of? I'm aware of three. Uh potentially five or six. It's and then there's always the unknowns. So are we in a are we in a position I just want I want to understand clarify where we're not turning away firefighters that could be hired because we can't hire them.

meaning like there's not individuals ready to come out of the fire department. We're not hiring them because we don't have the money to pay for them.

No, we're we're uh we're 182 and if if we had candidates that could start tomorrow, we would start them tomorrow.

But um very long process. Yeah, it is.

What's the average time? Just out of curiosity. When did we start? Um from from day of sign up to day when you when you started. We started March uh sending out cards. Yeah. And then they have to go for their medical. That seems to be the longest time. Two, three weeks sometimes.

So from start to finish, six months, 12 months. No, we've seen about uh last year it was probably closer to eight months, but this year because of timing with the academy, it's probably going to be closer to a year from the day that we sent out the cards. Gotcha. Okay.

Um so you mentioned about improvements in the firehouse has to go through facilities correct?

So, so a part of the facilities budget if as Mr. Reagan mentioned about the pests and the this and that.

So, uh pest control Yes. is and maybe this is to Mrs. Arpie, but is pest control through facilities? Yes. I can answer that for you. So, they pay for it. However, uh we were so frustrated with um having to be the middleman between the stations facilities and then the pest control company that we were given permission by facilities um to contact the pest control companies directly. And we gave that permission to

the house officers for each station, the the officers that are in charge of each station where if they have any any pests at all that they are immediately to call Flynn Pest Control, who has the the uh um the contract, and have it taken care of. So, I know that there have been mice cockroaches um rats. I've seen them in the stations in my time. Um I don't know if they

currently are. Um we I don't think we have any reports of it and we have been uh aggressively aggressively attacking that issue. Do you do you have reports from the pest control company that show that they visited and what their results were in their inspections? Yeah, they they um they leave those reports at every station. They get forwarded up to us. So they do regular they were just at

our at our building last week at our complex last week. They go and check all their bait stations. They check all their their glue boxes. Uh and they check for any activity and then they give us a report.

Would you be able to share those reports? Yeah, I'd love to see them.

Sure.

Chief, I don't know if I heard you correctly. You saying you're not aware of any mice problems, ro problems at the moment right now? So, I have a deputy chief of operations that's in charge of all my buildings. um the uh the house captains report to him when there's any issues and anything like that he would normally bring to me. So if there are any I haven't heard from about them recently. Okay. Thank you. Could you

follow up on that and just let us know as a council if that's the case or not and if you could also include those reports that would be excellent.

Absolutely.

Council Ponzi mentioned the ARPA items and I and I asked uh the ARPA director yesterday which she was going to get back to me and since you're here I'll ask you directly. Sure. So one of the ARPA items was air quality improvements and minplit AC's and I believe don't hold me to this. I think there were five stations identified that would be getting air quality control and or minit

ACs. Yeah. So, the status of that whole project, the air quality control was at the Stanley Street station for a mold issue that they had in their basement and President Orian could probably give me the thumbs up and thumbs down if that was remediated. Um, that that system was put in last year. Uh, the mini splits were uh to be done in two phases. I inherited that project from Chief St.

Martin. Uh, last year phase one was completed. Phase two was supposed to be completed sometime in the spring and going into the summer um at those other stations. Yeah. So, let me I'll ask you I'll read it verbatim. So, upgrading mini split AC units at Stanley Mhm.

which Mr. Reagan said 50% kind of 50%.

It's still in process to be finished.

This they would all the stations were set up to be done two phases. Okay.

Phase one has been completed in all the stations. Um phase two I'll check in on please. Yep. Candas Niagara and Central. Yep. Uh center got scrapped. Central central center station right there. That got scratched because of the um the improvements being done through the EMS bond are going to include um central air and heat. So they scrapped they they moved I shouldn't say scrapped it. They moved funding from the

center station to complete phase two in the other stations. Fair enough. And then moving on, the rest of it is funding for breathing air compressors for Central, North, and Flint. Yeah, those were installed two or three years ago. Okay. So, those are done. Yep. So, we're just still waiting on the mini splits.

Um, which you don't anticipate? Do you anticipate phase two being done before the summer starts in like two weeks?

No. I would I would guess no. Okay. So, the expected completion date on that according to the ARPA director is December 2025.

Correct. Okay. Could you provide an update on where where that could be?

Absolutely. Um when when the anticipation will be done for that?

Yeah, you can ask uh director Oliver.

You might get a better answer than me, but I'll try.

Okay. And I have a lot of questions for Mr. Oliver clearly. Um, and then just the last question, I think Mr. Council Ponty kind of alluded to it. So, do you have work orders currently with facilities for repairs in the houses?

Yes, I'm sure there are. Estimated how many? I couldn't tell you again. That's um that's my uh deputy of operations. I will get that to you. I would I would like to know how many work orders are there and how long they've been in there. Sure. To be addressed and then I can follow up with Mr. Oliver and why they have not been addressed to this point.

So many how long you got it. Thank you.

One of the one of the major questions and something I've been spoken to a few times and I've heard about is just the overall budget as a whole. The number which I think has been a has been a point um discussed. So FY24 actuals total expenditures 191 19,937962 revised budget FY251 19,589832 FY25 projected 18,503628 and the proposed budget of 19 million8,794. Can you just explain to the interim CFO just as a general

statement?

It's a reduction. Explain. Yeah, the big picture. So the the big picture starting with FY24 actuals that is vastly skewing this is the payment that took place the retro payment for the contract settlement took place in FY24. So that was I believe almost $2 million if not $2.5 million that was paid out 2.5 2.5 in that line item that was not actually all for that year's salaries. So that's skewing that number severely.

um moving forward. So the salaries itself is one of the biggest changes um and that's in the salaries and wages permanent. So there are the five squad um positions that are paid for by EMS that we've been discussing. Last year that there wasn't a credit on the fire budget for that. So it was fully budgeted for in the fire budget and fully budgeted for in the EMS budget to

pay for. So this year we put that credit back onto it. So that's about $370,000. As you can see at the very bottom line of the personnel listing exactly how much that is. It's not just in the base wages. It's it's throughout some of those certificates as well. So 369736.

Correct. So that's one of the biggest I mean that five that's $370,000 right there to start with. So the other part of it um going into the expense side of things is the fact that there was surplus in the FY25 revised budget for I should say in the FY25 budget for the retirement buyouts that wasn't needed that was then shifted down to the expenses. So we were able to do that

$250,000 for the tower repairs which is a onetime capital expenditure from the surplus this year. So again, that's increasing that number that you're looking at just on the expense side.

That is a one-time capital item that wouldn't necessarily typically be in there. So, and then there was also, I think, some other funds that were moved down into these line items, much smaller amounts than the 250. I think the order was in front of you in April um to move that money. So, again, that's it's making it look a little bit skewed, but you know, it's it's not an actual

reduction to anything that's been spent or anything that's been needed to be spent. It's a reduction from dollars that were in there that were chronically unspent, things that were in there for, you know, if we need this, if we need that. And it's not that we wouldn't still cover those costs as needed. It's the fact that, you know, every department citywide, we were finding a lot of, well, if I need this, just in

case of this, just maybe if this, if that, if that, and then it it all added up to literally millions of dollars in surplus every single year that we were seeing. So, we had to pull back from some of those things that weren't concrete known costs or that even if they weren't known, you know, we know we need to repair trucks. We're going to put a budget in for that. We don't know

exactly what it'll be to maintain them, but we know we need to maintain them.

So, those are the types of things that, yeah, we don't really know the cost, but we're going to put a budget in. Um, but it was just some of the other stuff that, you know, was chronically being turned back that we kind of pulled back um to make sure that we were best utilizing the tax dollars as needed.

Okay. And my last question in regards to the MBTA is my understanding, I think we may have had this conversation some time ago, that they were doing a study on the with the train being added to the city, how that would affect the fire department, locations of stations, absolutely districts, all that. Can you give us an update on where that stands currently? We're very close to receiving

our report from um JB uh consultants regarding that. Um we've given him uh we've had several meetings with him and I anticipate that we should have a better um a better answer on on that within a few weeks. Um he crunched a lot of the numbers. We saw some some pretty interesting results from it. Um, we just gave him some examples of buildings currently in the city to replicate as if

on that 79 corridor to really let us know what the response will be on those buildings. Um, he's looked at uh station locations. He's looked at um uh adding the effect of adding uh a manpower into the city and how that will affect our response capabilities. So, uh, without getting ahead of myself, I look forward to presenting that to you very soon.

Awesome. And then once that, uh, presentation is given to us, I'm assuming there will be an action plan put together to address some of the things in that report. Yeah, absolutely.

Okay. Um, and then with that, because of the MBTA, does it open up the fire department to additional grants at all or additional funding to to apply for because we're an MBTA community now? Not that I'm aware of. Okay. Not that I'm aware of. Uh the MBTA did give the Bristol County Fire Chiefs $900,000 of equipment. Uh and we received quite a bit of that for extrication uh for extrication needs because us uh we

shared a lot of the extrication equipment between us and New Bedford uh being the larger communities along the rail. So, okay, that's that's good news to you. Yep. Um I I appreciate your answers. I look forward to hearing more um for the questions I've asked. Um, but I'll echo what I said before. As of as as of this moment, I I don't support this as a whole and I support them all

day. Um, and I just don't support that we're not investing enough into the department as a whole. So, I appreciate that. Thank you. I yield. Thank you, Council Council C2. Council Dean, good evening. Good evening. You'll be happy to know most of what I was going to ask.

You already answered, so that's disappointing. I'm not going to make you duplicate. Sorry, Council Dean.

Um, so you mentioned you have three retirements that you for sure that will be occurring. Three that I know of. Yes.

What's the So under employee buyouts retirement is 402,000. Is that going to cover those those buyouts? It'll cover that and more. Uh, we typically look at who could retire. Um, not just who we know is going to retire. Uh, and that's the number that we that we include that with. Okay. That's that's good to know.

Mhm. Um the C uh Emily, how do you say your last name again? Emily Works. Emily Works. Okay. Yeah. Um on page 137, total additional pay 1,250,293. What constitutes that line item of additional pay? Okay. So, you got that. No, go ahead. Only because I wrote it down earlier. Okay. The uh the total additional pay for the firefighters is our holiday pay.

Strictly holiday pay. Strictly holiday pay. Total additional for differential.

And then the total stipens, EMT stipen, EMT education, opiate technology. If they have all of the stipens, right, for the shop, which are the three mechanics, um total additional is just their clothing stipen. I'm sure you figured that out with the $900. Yeah. And then the total stipens uh they're on call vehicle snow and repair stipen. Okay. Because when I looked at this um from page 137 to 131

is just slightly off. So I was wondering how much was it? I was wondering by 2700 which happens to be uniform allowance.

So I wasn't sure if the two were supposed to go together that may have been a clerical issue not go together.

But then if that's the case, then that brings me to why wouldn't auto allowance also be in that number.

So which would Yeah. And let's let's take a step back really quickly. In general across the board, the way that the salaries and wages is lining up with the overall additional pay and stipens.

So total stipens, if it's got the word stipen in it, you can almost guarantee that that's in that line item except for I believe the DCA stipen because that is to backfill when the current people who are the DCAs are on vacation. So those amounts are in their salaries now and so that amount is just to backfill when they're on vacation. Everything after that, the on call stipen, technology

stipen, snow stipen, anything stipen is in total stipens. And then in total additional pay, it's everything that falls after that. So it's squad differential, holiday pay, service out of rank, anything service out of rank that is already known, right? So there's obviously some backill. That's all part of total additional pay. Yes. Because if it is, then that number is way off.

Service out of rank. No, the service out of rank is not. I'm sorry. That is the one that's not I tried to put them in the order so that they fell that way. So uniform allowance and auto allowance would also be part of the total additional pay. Service out of rank should be above the statement. So So if you put the holiday pay and the uniform allowance together, you arrive at the

1,250,293. So that number is still off by 4500. The auto allowance.

It's doesn't include the auto allowance you're saying? No. So that might be the one that's accidentally in the total stipens. That could be where if because of the other one that's that was 3,000 off by 3,000. But you included the DCI stipend in that calculation and it shouldn't have been. So if you pulled that 1,000 out the auto that probably accounts for that $3,040. I I do have to say that of all

of the budgets, the police and fire personnel listing was by far the most tedious in all of the progress that we were making through all of the departments and all of the budgets. So, it's just a lot of detail and a lot of people and with a lot of different things that it just was a beast to manage.

Not our fault. Nope. We gave her I'm not placing blame. I'm just asking the questions. Excellent information. Um, so we were told there was going to be a study 79 corridor.

Yes. Was that completed? Councelor Reposa just asked about that. Well, I guess I was in my own world. So, we are in the process of getting the results on that. Hopefully within the next few weeks. We've met with the consultant several times to really uh the first meetings it was it was a chore for him to take five years of our actual call data and enter it so that he could uh

really get a grip on not just a lot of the studies we've done in the past is pick a location in the city Google map says it takes this long to get there can you get there in that time what his with actual call data says this actual call in 2015 uh 2023 at this address. When this came in, there was a medical at this other address. So, that engine company came from somewhere else in the

city. So, it's a much more in-depth process than than some of the more simple models that we've used in the past. Um, so, uh, we've we our last meeting with him, we kind of gave him the parameters of what we were interested in looking at and and him studying. Um, so we hope to have that in the next few weeks. So, and I I would assume and hope that his model also

includes when 79 is completed and we potentially have 20 to 50,000 more people living in the city, how many more how much more personnel we need, vehicles we need, etc. Correct. So, it it'll it'll let us know if we'll be able to um if we will with our current staffing levels, our current apparatus number, and our current station locations, if we will be able to meet the demands from that area. Uh so, what

we did is we essentially took um the um 1080 Deval Street, the Jerry Remy uh Jerry Rey's dating myself, and we replicated that six or seven times along the uh the 79 Carter just to give us an idea of what that's going to look like.

So based on the call volume limit we have there um it'll let us know uh you know on average if we can be there in the amount of time we need to be there and if we can uh if we don't get they call it overwhelm when we get to a point where that we cannot fulfill that. I don't want to be a negative person and I'm not an expert obviously but based on

what we've heard in the discussion tonight today we would not be able to service that area in addition to what you're servicing already. Yeah, that's why I wanted to do the study. Yeah, absolutely. And then um so I really have no more questions, but I do have a comment I need to make because this has been eating at me for the last two weeks as I've been going through this budget.

Um, as much as I am for some people getting raises because there were people in our city who don't make enough money, people who need not extravagant raises, just reasonable raises. Maybe, just maybe, if we hadn't, if we didn't have over $600,000 of raises in this budget this year, we might have been able to put some money into a line item for capital improvements or other things. And that's just me. Um,

no, no. Citywide. Citywide. I was going to say, no, no, no, no, no. Citywise, and this is before the contracts.

If you want to do $600,000 in raises with my department, uh the union would love to meet with you at the next. I'm sure they would. So, yep. So, over $600,000 worth of raises in this budget book. Makes me sick. Uh because we could do a lot with less. And with that, I yield. There you go. Constim.

Thank you, Mr. President. Um Chief, thank you again for being here.

appreciate you. Absolutely. Uh staffing levels. Can you just speak to your staffing levels? Do you do you have a staffing plan and what what do you see as the adequate levels for the for the fire department? So, uh the very first conversations I had with the administration when I uh first interviewed in my very first interview, uh involved staffing levels and overtime. Um so, at that time, we were

at 185 when I first started interviewing and the city wanted to go to 170. So throughout my interview process and then into when I first started as the chief um we worked into last year's budget and got the city to commit to 182. Um with the understanding that it was going to cost a lot of overtime as a temporary stop gap until we could increase our manpower. Um so last year I was

disappointed when we weren't allowed to put in for those safer grants because I thought that that was that was our that was the deal, right? like we'll we'll under staff I'll ask the guys to work a lot of overtime um to to plug the gap and keep us at 35. Um so I believe we need to be closer to 200. That's the number where we can properly staff without overt taxing the the department.

Um and then uh and and I think safer is the way to do it at this point. Yep. So I appreciate the comments on on safer. I guess philosophically I I'm opposed to using grants to supplement staffing levels and I'll tell you why. Um I I think if we have a staffing plan and we're committed to the staffing plan and we've got the funding mechanism to prove that we can support it, then let's do

it. Um everybody's saying it's reasonable to apply for the safer grant, but even with the the matches that you have put in 10 20 65% at the end of three years, if there's not a commitment from the administration to to fund those, we're just laying people off. So what do we do? Right? So I disagree when people say that they would just accept grants, right? You can't just accept grants, especially when it's for

personnel, unless you are absolutely going to support it. And I think that's why the federal government when you start talking about safer grants on the commitments. Now I understand, you know, when you go back to 2010, like we we were forced, right? That was a necessity. You go from, you know, 200 firefighters down to 111, get a safer grant, bring it to 153. that it's it's it's a necessity, but it took us a while

to climb out of that. Um, and I would say, council, for the record, I just want to point out there was doing 9 C cuts, right? Right. Which is very rare.

Yep. And midyear. So, you know, that that's very concerning. And and I would I would number one ask the administration if if they even are um one if they're not committing to the safer grant, that means they're not committing to funding, right? So we look at FY24 staffing levels at FY24 199.5, right? 25 and 26 were at 187.5 budgeted. So if folks think that you're going to put in a staff a safer grant

for 10 firefighters and we're going to maintain them after three years, you're you're mistaken. Because if that was the case, why do we not just add 12 firefighters between 25 and 26? And I'm not saying you needed to do it in 25.

You could have did six and 25, six and 26, but there's no plan here. and and I would ask the I would ask the uh the interim CFO is is is am I mistaken by saying that obviously there's a an affordability issue or concern about the staffing?

So my understanding is that last year those positions those unfilled positions were I'm going to say agreed upon to not fill them. Um and so they weren't budgeted for and so that was the situation that happened then and what was put forward this year. I mean in in the time frame that we did it there wasn't much ask or conversation to increase that number at this point in time in these last couple of weeks to

submit this. I know that there have been bigger conversations happening about the safer grant and what a longer term plan is. So, I don't have the full answer to what that commitment looks like and what that timing is yet because we I just haven't been involved fully in those conversations at this point in time, but I know that there I know that that was a like you said a stop gap. It wasn't a

permanent long-term, you know, life plan. It was just and but I don't also know the full scope of what the plan is to get it back up. So I I just I mean it just comes back to planning and I and I know people keep saying you know plans get put on the shelf but I I think you know planning internally especially for staffing. I think there's got to be a conversation from the public safety

departments to number one identify what the adequate staffing levels are to provide the services that we need.

Right. So we shouldn't be talking about you saying that you're at 200 and we're at 187. Right. And I think your working numbers are one would you say 170 or something like that? 182. 182. Yeah. So to me that that's that's a concern. So I said before we start talking about safer grants and I know everybody's excited about it. If we don't have money in the budget to budget for these grants then

I'm I for one would not support a grant that came down before us to to man it.

What I would support is, you know, a staffing plan coming down from the administration through you that has identified 200 firefighters and whether that's a a 10-year plan or a 15-year plan uh to slowly build up the department to get there, then I I truly support that because it it needs to be sustainable because at the end of the day to hire people to lay them off. Um, and I know this safer grant will cover

training and all that stuff, but it's not taking the time from the individuals that have to they have to shadow and train and and all that other good stuff.

And then at the end of the day, we lose those individuals to other communities, right? So, we invested all this time and money um into individuals just to see them leave. And and that doesn't even take into account any unemployment costs that we would see in the budget as well.

So, that there's all significant uh considerations that go into just when we're planning for grants. And I and I I recognize you folks understand that. I just wanted to say that because I just heard a lot. Let's why aren't we doing the grants and and all this other stuff.

the the bigger question is why aren't we properly staffing the fire department?

That's the bigger question.

Um in terms of capital and and it's and it's been said, I know capital has been pulled out. Can you tell me how much uh was pulled out for capital requests that was built into the FY26 budget for the fire department? So, let's let's take a step back on that. It wasn't built in. It was requested. So, it's not like it was built in and the reason it was pulled out was because it was not

built in and not able to be managed at that rate. But, I believe it was 1.3 million, just shy of 1.3 million. 1.235.

So, if it was if it wasn't built into the budget and then we you were telling us that you had to pull capital items out for 1.3. How if it's not built in, how do you pull out? I put it in I submitted it the 1.235 into the into Munis. Right. So he he did submit for it, but I will tell you that before the $1.3 million cut came, the million dollars immediately

came out. No, no, I wasn't. Yeah. So I recognize the process. The departments submit a budget, you review the budget, right? Their request doesn't always make it. I guess from the timing standpoint when we when we sat here with water and sewer budgets, which get submitted to us earlier, right? We made the decision to pull the indirect costs, right? Reduce their indirect cost and say that we had

to pull it from the general fund. So you're you're telling us that of that $1.3 million is that I forget. How much how much was the indirect cost? It was it was 1.3 and the direct effect to the budget was was 1.1. But so at that point in time when that cut was made, the budget was not done. Meaning it wasn't balanced. It wasn't at that point yet.

So we were trying to make decisions about what could be put in there to fund additional debt or to have a capital line that was maybe more general while we sorted through a capital plan to have that set aside. And that that amount that I was hoping to be able to put in to have set aside for the capital plan while the capital plan was being developed to decide what it was came

back out. So it wasn't in any specific department at that point in time. It was it was going to be something that we had to consider because I know that a lot of people were planning on the capital plan and there were some departments that put it in and so we we're shifting around and trying to understand also what capital is right. I think there's different understandings of what capital

is defined as and and what that qualification is. So so in May you you didn't have any capital items in the budget?

Whose definition of capital? The the true definition of capital of the the capitalization item of over 50,000. No, there was not. I I feel like I got to come with a dictionary. I mean definitions every time balanced budget capital items. I mean it I I just I don't understand. They submitted $1.3 million. I understand that if from an affordability standpoint, it it's it's probably dead

on arrival, but we've got items I mean, we we have a capital improvement plan that's before us, right? So, for items that have been identified for funding sources through the budget, there were three for FY26. So, my understanding of that is that those identification placements of where it would be paid for came from the fire department, not from the finance team. But the finance team

submitted it to us. The previous finance team submitted it to you. And that's the part that I don't understand what happened with that and and how something like that was put in when when we all know that a million-dollar truck would have never been put in the budget. So, I don't understand what the plan was or what happened with that. And I I'm I'm just trying to figure out now how we are

going to plan for it and how a plan should be presented because that that wasn't possible.

Why wasn't it possible to put a million dollar line item in the budget? No, no, there's not it's not it's not even a million dollars. It's not even that significant to be honest with you. It's um a staff vehicle 50,000. So that is being purchased right now from current year surplus as per the conversation we had during the budget whether they move forward or not. But that was the conversation that we had during their

budget was they have surplus this year that's not being spent that they should buy that with. Okay. Um they had one for FY20. So they've got a staff vehicle 50,000 for 26 27 28 29 30.

So maybe we could have got two if we put 50,000, right? If there's a if there's a need. And I believe that that was the exact conversation that we had was if there's enough to buy two now, maybe we should buy two now. So those are the conversations we had. They also put in for appliances um station appliance replacement. And again, that amount that was requested in the budget was about

15,000. And again, the conversation was you have surplus, you should we should have the conversation of buying what we can buy this year rather than rolling it into next year's surplus. and buy what we can with that are one-time expenses right now with the money we have now.

So, but still my point is so st a staff vehicle 50,000 tech improvements. So, that's equipment tracking station tracking is was that is that PS tracks?

Yeah, it's a a program called PSRs and you did that. We did that. Yep. They did that this year already as well. And then you've got uh replace station appliances for 15,000. No, that's the one I just mentioned that I we had had conversations about them purchasing that now. I that's the one I don't know where that's at right now, but Okay. Yeah. Shortly after our conversation, we had several uh major

apparatus repairs that took precedent over the um appliances at the station.

So, in in terms of the March time frame, I I mean May time frame when we met with water and sewer budgets to approve percentage-wise, I know it's just going to be an estimate. Where were you in in terms of completion on the budget? 80% 90%. 90% probably 90%. 90%. Yeah. So at 90% there was no capital on the budget prior to us. Not in specific departments. No, it was it was a So So

the intent was never really to have capital built into the budget. It was it was to have it built in in the in in the debt side of things at that point because if there was stuff that was small enough to be onetime money, we would purchase it with onetime money and then we would we're hoping to add on debt for things that were much larger scale items that would need to be done

that we wouldn't again pay for a million dollars in one year. We would probably look at stretching it out. So, it was going to be I'm going to call it like a set aside because the projects weren't specifically identified at that point.

we needed the plan to to fully form that and so I didn't want to put it in any one department when as much as we can say what is a priority with fire and that fire in general is a priority we still have to look citywide to look at all of those priorities so how much did you anticipate putting in for that capital line item my my goal was upwards of

$600,000 for the debt side of things which means in in debt numbers is you know upwards of All right. So, so, so to suggest that because we moved the 1.3 million from water and sewer that there's no capital items is a little misleading. You only you were only going to use 600,000 for debt, which means in actual capital purchases is a lot more than $600,000 in one year. No, I I I recognize how you

know leasing you can leverage it. I I recognize that. But we were told or at least my understanding was that 1.3 it was just that today that $1.3 million worth of capital lands was pulled from the budget because it was one time. No, I said all capital was pulled because for the 1.3.

Yes. I I I don't I I am doing the best I can and I feel like everybody's trying to catch me on my words right now and I'm running out of ways to say the same thing. Uh I'm not trying to catch you on your words. I'm just trying to understand what you was said. I' I've heard it three times. I've just heard my colleagues can can correct me if I'm

wrong. I just I I I'm trying to understand what is is being requested at this point. So here here's what's being requested.

So normally in in a general fund operating budget, there should be some capital items in there, right? So I would tell you that the police department and the fire department should have a replacement plan for vehicles, not necessarily engines or you know, I was going to say rescues, but obviously rescues. I I come from a different community that has rescues, but you know, staff vehicles, other

equipment should be built into the operating budget, right? There should be whether it's 50,000, 100,000, whatever that case may be, we should see a line item that is funded every single year so that we can constantly go to that line item. So when even if we're leasing vehicles, right? Yep. We have a three-year lease payment. It should be it comes in and then once that lease payment comes off, you get another

vehicle and it's just a constant replacement. So, we're not having conversations about replacing vehicles that are used 24/7, right? Or running into situations that, you know, the fire department needs to repair buildings and and things of that nature. I understand that there are a significant amount of priorities that are coming before us.

But what I will tell you is that the messaging that's coming out of this budget session to uh this year is is not a very good one. Right? So we are hearing that you know community maintenance is is not fulfilling their need in terms of number one finishing projects. Um obviously there's a number of people that are having conversations with individuals either in the fire department, police department that

requests are going on because I mean why would we why would anybody ask the chief uh what do you have for work artists, right? Because to me that's that's that that request is is a ridiculous request because there are work or artists every single day. But the request wasn't to know why the work orders how many work orders you have. But the real request is to prove that there are obviously work

orders that are being ignored. So correct, but that's not a money issue from my side of things at this point. So I I am aware I'm hearing a lot of the same feedback. But as a as the finance director, you should be extremely concerned about that because it is a money issue because if those repairs, the preventative repairs are not maintained, they become bigger issues, right? Then we have, you know,

structural issues. That's not that's not what I meant in the sense they're not being done because they're not funded is what I was trying to I know what you're saying and and I guess what I'm telling you is is that from my standpoint sitting here I don't believe that you're being included in enough meetings that have to deal with finance that have to deal with financial planning and I think

it needs to change and it needs to change quickly. Agreed. Um, and from a city council standpoint, I just we've got to do something because this is just I feel like I'm on a merrygoround and we just go around and around and around because it's the same conversations we have year after year after year, right?

So, I I I just I I personally would like to have a commitment aside from this in capital and it's not necessarily for the fire department, but all departments.

What are we looking because I because if I don't know the number, I'm not I don't know that I'm supporting this budget to begin with, right? That's that's number one. But if I don't have a commitment from the administration on what we can expect to spend on capital items, either through the stabilization account, through debt service, uh I'm not moving forward with this budget. I I want a

number. And I don't care what department we're talking about. Then we'll talk about priorities and who should get that. If it's a million dollars, it's $2 million, it's $5 million. You know, to say that we pulled $1.3 million in capital, right? That's we've got a $49 million budget. So 1.3 divided by 409 is.3%. So we essentially were going to commit.3% which is actually less because you only said

600,000 of capital items in the actual operating budget.

You're you're including schools in that as well in that $49 million. And so capital is not a part of that. Okay, let's cut it in half. So, I'll I'll double that. So, yeah, 6%. You're not even at a percent. Okay. I I I also would like to mention that the capital that you wanted to see in the fire budget, I pulled history. I have it all the way back to 2010. It has never never

been in their budget. Never. And that's in 15 years. So, that's okay. You can you can ask the the clerk for for minutes. I've I've said it year after year. I agree. It's what I'm used to and that's how I think it should operate is to have it in there. But it's it's not new to not have it in there is what I want to make very clear. I I agree that

it should be, but it's it's never been.

So, we're now moving the whole wheelhouse of how we're doing that. And I and my colleague just said it. We used to have capital items. Not in fire. Not in fire specifically. I thought I saw it in FY24, but that was that was it was something that was put in with one-time transfer. Stuff was transferred in to buy things and then it's capital though.

I Right. So, which is the same thing that happened with the $250,000 this year.

What? $250,000 for the tower repairs.

Oh, let's try to move on, please. So, just in terms of the capital improvement plan itself, uh we talked about this. Do you have a vehicle um an inventory list for with for the vehicles with the status like in terms of you know the shape that they're in the condition like for the useful life end of useful life excellent terrible I don't know why we're driving this so you you pass that along to the

administration as part end of year end of year we usually pass it along so who who reviews that and the CFO did in in December I believe is when they were doing a lost capital okay plan. So, and I know we've we've relied on CDA for the uh for the loans on on some of these vehicles and and I know you said that you might have a quick turnaround time, but a lot of the

vehicles I mean especially if you're not doing I guess a you know a standard vehicle that's just coming a cookie cutter vehicle which correct quite frankly I don't know if that that meets the needs of your department. I I understand what you're trying to do.

you're trying to get vehicles in in the front line as quickly as possible. But again, you know, I I just don't want to continue to make the mistakes that we've made in the past where, you know, we go to a different community and we take their, you know, their truck that's not even they're not even going to use for a reserve vehicle and we use it as a front line, right? So we're using a 1986 and

it's, you know, 2010, right? Like that that to me doesn't make any sense. So at some point I I think we need to have these replacement plans in place. we need to really kind of identify especially for the vehicles. I thought we were in a in a good place with uh a couple years ago when we started using all the CDA money to come in. But again, we we've got to be able to turn around

these vehicles uh as quickly as possible and and in terms of them breaking down, even the newer vehicles break down, right? So, I just want to make sure that you folks have the enough money in your line item to cover it internally to repair it. So, that's the only thing I'm I'm saying. So, I I'd like to see those requests. I' I'd like to see capital items built into this Again, not to meet

the million-doll needs or anything like that, but I mean, for the police department, when we're talking about, you know, a $75,000 or $100,000 vehicle with fully equipped with lights and technology, we should be able to to budget at least three vehicles a year, you know, to to turn those around.

That's that's just my take. Um, that's my goal.

I mean, I'm going to leave it there. I think my colleagues really kind of spoke to it. Uh if we can if you if you're making notes for for Sean, I'd like to to see the staffing levels. Um how many how many per um you know per group that you have that you would you would like to see in terms of manning.

Okay. So I know you got 200, but I like to see like how that would break down.

We got six stations. Six stations, four groups plus staff, right? So yeah, I'm more than happy to get that to you. And then and it's I got it under Kadim notes, not showing notes. I'm sorry. Oh, okay. Great. Right.

Which way? The right way. S H A W N.

Well, it's facing me. I'd be in trouble if I didn't spell it right. Do Do you have that 79 plan study? I haven't. Uh, so just in three weeks. No kidding. I'm kidding. Just All right, I yield. Thank you, Council. Thank you, Mr. President.

Uh, Chief, um, thanks for being here tonight. Um, I don't have much to add.

Everybody's asked pretty much the same questions I was going to ask you, but I'm feel councilman seat one and seven.

I'm reluctant to accept this budget. Um it just I I just can't um accept some a reduction especially in a the budget wise as the budget number um being on a being chairman of the public safety committee and um it just doesn't make sense to me. And now having said that, um I do look back on when I was a city councelor before I but got back on this

year uh two years ago. We um initiated a a a educational program for the police, the Quinn bill. We didn't start it. It was there um and it was an educational incentive uh for the police officers.

And I never ever uh comprehended the reason why we uh that didn't apply to the firefighters. It did. So it so I but my next question is um it's not the Quinn bill but what is there something similar that the firefighters have? So it was done through uh contract negotiations. So the Quinn bill when it was uh started uh the state covered 50% of the cost and the city covered 50% of

the cost. So at the negotiations whenever that was long before my time or uh that the city the union negotiated that the city's share of the Quinn bill would apply to the fire department. How long ago was that? It's before my time.

So I would say late 90s early Yeah.

early 2000s. Okay. So the So that is then now it's it's it's you guys have that. Absolutely. Okay. So is it the same kind of uh um incentive? Is it the mast's program is a 20% increase? No. So that that's the full Quinn. Yeah. Right.

So for an associates we're 5%. For a uh bachelors we're 10 and for a masters we're 12 and a half. Okay. All right.

Okay. Good. That's good. I I didn't realize that uh you were taking advantage of that. Um Yep. And as far as the uh um there was discussed tonight and I've talked to a couple of the uh uh firefighters about it. Why why is it that when we're looking at the an engine or ladder purchase, it takes two for the is it two years for the engine, three for the ladder? Well, it's interesting

because the IIAFF just uh released they've been they've been on this. So there's a group called Rev Group that over the last decade or so has purchased almost every major fire apparatus manufacturer in the country. They own a lot of like motor coach companies and they own camper companies. It's an enormous conglomerate. And the theory is is that when you put out for three bids like we did for Engine 9 and Ladder 4

two years ago, you're receiving three bids from different manufacturers that are all owned by Rev Group. So they can control the lead times, they can control the price, uh they can push you towards specific manufacturers by manipulating that stuff. So it's something that the IIAFF is looking into because it's affecting departments uh all over the country, of course. Yeah. So the the

2017 pumps that we bought, I believe, were in the ballpark of5 to $600,000. The one we purchased that we're waiting for uh delivery next year was just under a million.

Uh so in that short amount of time they have doubled roughly in price. Okay.

Well again um just in since I've been back on the council I've worked with you very well. Your communication with you is very good. Um I'm very happy that you're the chief. Uh you're doing a great job. Most days I'm happy I'm the chief. I know. Keep up the great work.

And I think too like I've said before the work that you did with Mr. Yeah.

Yeah. Pertaining to the MBTA and the um there's still a lot of work to do on that. Absolutely. And I and I Mr. Reposa brought up the um and other folks at Route 79 Carter. That's going to be a very big uh feat. I think that's big for the city. If the project is done right, it could mean bit it could mean very good things for the city. All right. You Thank you. Thank you, Council Counc.

Council Dian. Yeah, he just answered half the question. I was going to ask I know that CDA funded a ladder truck and a pumper. Mhm. Um and it was ordered and that was going to be my question. When do you expect delivery of those vehicles? So, uh as of I spoke with the salesman last week, the chassis is for the uh engine is due due for production in November. Oh, I'm sorry. The ladder

truck chassis is due for production in November. Uh and the engine company chassis is due for production in March.

Both anticipated to be delivered in 2026. So, it's not just when you think the chassis, it's the chassis. It's it's a lot of the it's a lot of what the truck will look like without a lot of the working parts. It gets sent they all the chassis from RevG Group are built in Michigan. Then they get sent to different parts of the country. The engines being built in Nebraska. The ladder truck is a different company

being built in Pennsylvania. So, those will be sent there to be fully outfitted and then we'll receive delivery of them.

Okay. That was the only other thing I thought of. I yield. Thank you, Chief.

Just quick question. Sure. Are they aware of what type of city for river is for that those type of trucks where we have a lot of steep hills? Yeah, that's where that I know someone asked earlier about uh what the apparatus committee does. That's one of the things that we look at. And uh the one nice thing about ordering custom versus offtheshelf is we can move some of the creature comforts

around uh to get a larger engine or a larger transmission uh system. Yeah, we can. So, for instance, on our pump, um, standard was all electronic gauges, all electronic valves. Uh, I'm weary of those. A lot of the the apparatus community was weary of those because electronics break down. So, um, switching to manual on a lot of those things saved us enough money to make improvements in other areas of the

truck. Just want to make sure that they're aware. It's a different It's unique. It's not like it's a flat city.

Yeah. They have no idea, but that's why we put that committee together to make sure they're aware. Okay. Thank you, Chief. Yeah. One more question while I'm on the subject. Sure. The maintenance, preventative maintenance. How often you do preventative maintenance to each truck? So, we're actually looking at that right now. Um, the manufact Cummins Cumins uh most of our engines, most of

the engines in the apparatus of Cumins, uh, their manufacturer recommendation is 500 hours of service before, uh, oil changes and, um, and preventative maintenance are done. Uh based on the last year and what we're seeing from these trucks, I think we need to get closer to 250 or 300. Um uh just because of like you said the hills and the how much we how much we put on these trucks.

$500. How much was that every six months you think? Or how many what are we talking? It's it's probably a little more than six months, but in that ballpark. Do they do an entire PM sheet fill out where they check? Yep. Every light bulb on that truck. So, uh, so those trucks are, um, they they get ma they get inspected weekly by the driver of the apparatus. Every Sunday they do a

weekly check. Uh, they go around and they check off if they notice any of those deficiencies and they're forwarded to the maintenance shop. Anything that is emergency or serious gets uh, repaired immediately. Some of the smaller items will uh, stack up and then they'll call the truck to take it out of service once they have a sufficient number of items that need repair. Okay.

And there's records of that when they're being done, what's being repaired on them? Yeah, absolutely. Our maintenance shop uh the the um shop steward takes care of that. So, as far as Okay, that's good enough. Constant C5. cover.

Everybody's asked any question that I would have had, but one of the things I want to ask you is you handle uh oil changes and the automobiles that the veterans department uses and senior citizens. Not just oil changes, but repairs as well. They pay for the parts.

We supply the labor. So, you don't charge them. You could charge them if they're using your department. Yeah, we could.

It's not. It's all the same budget. And then I think you need to look at that.

It's it's all the same budget. I mean, if you if you take from veterans to give to FI, it's all one budget. So, it's the same thing. It's the same thing that water and sewer is the same. No, it's you know, uh it's the same that all these departments that work together revenues. Emily, can I speak because I really haven't had a chance to today and I'd appreciate it.

I realize that it's one budget that we're working with, but I think that sometimes when one department uses a resource from another department, they do transfer it over. And if they can't do it, if it's too much work for the fire department to do because you have your own apparatus to work at, then that has to be a conversation that we need to have and we'll switch that to being done

somewhere else because it's not fair to tie up your department with doing things like this for another department because I've had um complaints saying that they felt that your vehicles were more important to get done and if they were busy they would have to wait. So my understanding they have to wait. That's fine. But I'm just wondering is it too much for your department? So you're

saying the veterans would have to wait.

That's correct. That's correct. And they understand that you know don't misunderstand me. They understand that they would have to wait. But they were like maybe we should be doing this somewhere else. And if so, then we have to look at the uh the veterans department and look at their budget and do their vehicles through there. Yeah, correct. So, our shop foreman um will take a look at the vehicle, diagnose the

issue, and then he will get in touch with the department of the vehicle they're repairing. Give them a timeline when he anticipates it'll be done, and then they might have to send it out elsewhere to get it repaired. We're also trying to move them from being at York compound um especially in the winter months because then it's harder for them to get up there and clean it out. I I

kind of am in the middle of the whole safer grant. I understand why if you put in for 10 positions through the safer grant then in three years we have to absorb all of those 10 positions.

Correct. But if we can put in three positions, you said earlier yourself what the anticipation of people who are going to retire. So you would know in three years more or less who's aged out, you know, um who you think is going to retire, how many positions you'd have that you'd be able to absorb those positions. It's you're not getting another number, but at least you're absorbing them. And for now, for three

years, you do have three extra bodies.

and look at a continuum of that. Um the tricky part with safer is um in order to get the grant, you have to make the argument that the hires that you're making will create a significant enough impact on your department to bring you into compliance with NFPA 1710. So you can't go less than 10. I would have a hard time justifying that three bodies would would get us get this that number

of firefighters without overtime to to to a fire scene. Um it it's typically I I mean 10 is even a stretch. Typically they're designed to get 15 20 firefighters right onto onto the roles because that's where you really see a major difference without overtime and being able to comply with NFPA 1710. Do you think that we'd have an advantage of getting more given the MBTA uh and any monies they may have?

No, you don't. No. Okay. Unfortunately, the other thing is I I really was taken a bit back by the fact that there is no capital in any of this budget. But concerning to me was if you know because this council voted against a water and sewer increase then, you know, that's why there's no capital. I don't remember. I mean, I don't know who said that, Emily. You said somebody said

that. I can go back and watch it. I believe it was um councelor Kadim or councelor Pont, but if councelor Pont doesn't remember saying that, but I I I thought that's where I recalled it from, but I can go back and rewatch it and let you know. Well, I will tell you that I don't think that the council took a vote on that. Someone may have made a comment as part of a larger statement, but this

council never took a vote to say correct, we're not going to have water, we're not going to have sewer increases, and we agree that we're not going to give capital outlay to anybody else in the city. I don't remember taking a vote on that. And I think that sometimes Emily in fairness to you, you're the interim CFO. You're working with the numbers and I think a lot of questions that have been asked spec specifically

about, you know, wanting uh work orders and things like that and how long it's taking things that should be a city administrator that's answering to those questions because I have spoken to Mr.

Alivera about a number of things and he is one man and the way that they redistrict or restructured the city to me is an abysmal failure. It's not working. One person cannot handle everything that's being handled in fairness. And I would suggest um Mr.

President that you know for these budget hearings that the mayor he really needs to look at who's going to come down here representing the administration. If he doesn't have a city administrator, maybe he can come down and shed light to some of these things. He absolutely knows what's going on in the city, but we need to have somebody here from administration. And I don't think it's

Emily's responsibility to speak for administration because she's not probably in those meetings. She's more doing numbers and I don't think it's fair to her as well. With that, I yield.

Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, councelor. I would agree with a lot of what you said. Council seat 7 counc.

Thank you, Chief or Emily, whoever wants to answer this. Who who handles your IT repairs and improvements?

Who's texting you? Uh so our IT repairs not not even my wife you don't want. So we have um the IT department spends uh one to two days a week uh and they do mostly um password stuff and things like that. I have a proposal in that I I'm not um free to talk about right now to address some of those issues and it's something that's been on my agenda since I started. Um

so that's about all I can disclose at this time. All right, Emily, where in the budget is in the fire budget is that addressed or is it not addressed in this um so so what he just discussed same can't really discuss that at this point but the other side of it is um MIS is where that technology stuff lives so the way that this city has been structured is that they have police fire all of

that type of stuff within the MIS legend so if the if I if the MIS department does work in the fire department how does that So does does they bill fire or just it's again it's it's a general fund function that you know we we kind of are one unit that as much as we have specific areas that we know what we're doing we we are supported by other areas that can support that like the

facilities situation as well and is the exception of that rule with an enterprise fund yes because it's a different funding source if MIS does work for water and sewer there's the indirect thing going on okay Um, I don't know if you can answer this question and I'm gonna ask you. How much how much work was done for the fire department this past year? Do you have a ballpark number of what that looks like

by the IT department?

I I mean they keep track of the of the tickets. So, anything that we do, we create a ticket with them. So, it would be they would be able to provide you with those uh with those numbers. But when they're on our building, they also do work for EMS at the same time. We have some EMS offices in our building. So, and you said they spend one to two days a week in your in

your collective buildings. It's typically been closer to uh to one day.

Um so it's Tuesday and Thursday. Someone will be there typically half days on those two days. And what particular they maintaining? Um so networks, um passwords, uh munis essentially that's about it. Okay. We don't have a ton of technology on the fire department and we have guys uh firefighters who uh who do some of that work. Okay. When are you going to be able to talk more about what you just

mentioned? Well, hopefully uh within a couple weeks. Soon and very soon. That would be nice. I'm I'm sure the chief could talk to you privately about questions that you might have. Well, maybe in three weeks we can have a discussion about it. So, just let you know. Let me know when you're ready.

Swear the secrecy. Fair enough, sir.

Okay. I yield. Thank you. Thank you, Council. Council C1. Council Gadim.

Thank you. Um, so I had asked the question, but I I must have seen a squirrel or something and I didn't get the response. So, uh, we were talking about capital. So, how much is the administration committing to capital this year in terms of dollar amount? I don't I don't have a commitment right now to to tell you without looking at a capital plan and and working through all of that. That

that's unfortunately given the time frame of when I stepped into this, I'm having to handle that post operation budget right now.

So I I just I mean I don't I don't want to bel label the point, right? But I I just struggle. I I don't know how we can vote on this operating budget if if we don't know how much. I mean, if you come back and say the zero dollars that are going to be spent in capital, I I think that changes everybody's mind in terms of where this budget goes. That I mean,

the the fact that there's there will never be able to be zero dollars spent in capital in the city in any given year. It's it's just about where is it being like what's funding it and it may not always be the general fund and that's that's the discrepancy. So there will be capital items spent in 2026.

It's just where will it come from, right? But usually typically when you have a budget, you know, you got your budget season coming down, you're reviewing budgets, the capital items, you know, the capital budget comes down with it, right? Agreed. That is so I guess what I'm saying to you is is that there's zero capital that's built into this operational budget, right? We don't have any commitment in terms of a dollar

amount. I don't care what the funding source is, but we don't know if it's a million, 10 million, 20, 100 million.

She's not prepared to answer. But okay, so I'm not prepared to vote for the budget, but the the problem, right? Like I mean, that's the reality of the situation. I'm just trying to get She can relay that information, probably get you the answer. Right now, off the top of her head, she's not going to be able to come out with that number. That's my But Mr. President, with all due respect,

we we've got stabilization accounts. We have free cash. I mean, we know what what's going on. I'm just I'm just looking for some type of commitment on a dollar amount. Understand? But I don't think she can make any commitment. She's not that that's above her pay scale. So, but she I'm sure she can get asked the question as you're asking her, relay it to the administration and find out what

the plan is. All right. So, so, so we have turnover, right? Just because we have turnover in a city and I know there are key positions, that doesn't mean everything stops. I agree. Right. So, as council, I'm not asking back. No, I'm not. And this is not directed to you, but I'm just saying in general, this is where my frustration is coming from. I can't be expected to approve a budget

without knowing the other aspects of it.

I understand that. So, the last time we did this, and we've done it all the time, we go back to healthare, right?

So, the health care situation is we we see $41 million and we say, "Okay, that's great." We don't see the details behind it because it's in a different account, and then we're told it's $5 million. And so, it it's a it's a shell game, right? My only answer to you is that she will try to get that information and give you asked her specific how much money are we looking to put into capital. She's not prepared

to give that answer right now. But, will you be able to give it to us before we put on the budget?

So I don't want to put words in my mouth. So she's not comfortable. No, it's it's not. I I just want to explain that we have we have had on this council floor many conversations about the capital plan that was presented before and it not being a good decent plan. And I think you are the one that most noticed that and recognized that. And so when I was building this in a way that I

should be able to have that capital plan and make those same commitments, I wasn't able to do that because of the plan that existed. So at this point in time, we had to go forward with what we could with operating because operations need to keep moving forward. And as soon as this is done early in the year, you know, we will be shifting into rebuilding a capital plan and having it

be a real plan to have those concrete numbers to make that and to have it going forward so that every year after that we will have it with the budget.

And I'm I'm not even I'm not even looking for that, right? I'm willing to throw that out the window for now. All I'm asking for is a commitment on a dollar amount that we're going to spend and then whatever the plan is from the departments. Whether the fire department is getting zero dollars or they're getting 10% of that number and the police department is getting 80 or buildings getting 90%. I that's for us

to figure out later. I'm just looking for what the commitment is on a dollar amount that's going to be invested in FY26 from the administration on capital items. Whether it's equipment, building, infrastructure, I don't care what it is.

I I just I I can't personally vote for a for a budget because what we have happened is is that we put this budget together, then we've got all these transfers that come down and then we're forced to vote on it because nobody has the guts to say no, we're not going to transfer, right? I I can I'll say no to everything, but as one counselor, that means everything else passes, right?

Unless I've got five counselors who's willing to stand behind me and say that we're not going to approve any transfers, then what are we doing? We're circumventing the city council. we don't have a plan and we just okay a million dollars just went into healthare right we weren't given the option to say no we want to put money at risk for healthare $5 million at risk right now I don't

even have I I don't even have the opportunity to say that I want to put $5 million at risk for healthcare right I want $5 million if we're talking about who said who said get rid of the capital my statement was and I'll clarify it that if we're moving it over take it out of capital if there's one time items I didn't think that we were only spending $600,000 in capital. That was just the

statement. So my other statement has I want $5 million put in here so that the healthcare is fully funded. So let's see if that happens, right? It just it's we're balancing a budget based on the fact that we didn't fully fund healthare. Okay? And so what's going to happen is we're going to cross our fingers, hope that the claims come in less and that we're going to be able to, you know, fund that. If not, we're

coming back down for a transfer, right?

So, we're taking free cash. We're taking stabilization accounts. So, then that means that's less money for capital items. This is this is a larger picture.

It's not just we're not just voting on this one budget, right? There's more financial implications than this just this budget. And we just got one piece to it. All I'm asking for is a dollar commitment to ensure that departments are receiving the capital needs that they have. And it may not even it may not even make a dent in the capital needs. That's that's a larger discussion

which I I truly recognize and appreciate that that needs to be had with the finance team and all the department heads, but something's got to give. I know my colleague says that, you know, the director is only one person. The administration put that request down, right? We've been talking about how we maintain our buildings for years. We do a terrible job of maintaining our buildings. This this committee, this

council has told the administration, come down to us. We will we will support a debt service to fully renovate renovate the center station. Then I had a conversation. Not only will we do that, why aren't we having a conversation with the uh redevelop the housing authority to take the land in front of Madera's f Madera's um Cardinal Madera's uh tower and put a station, move the ball field over there, build

the station on the side of Stanley Street and we would have rectified that situation as well, right? That I mean a facility like that is 101 million.

That's short money when we're talking about it. So we're going to continue to pour money, capital money into a building that's already outdated and out used. it's outlived its useful life.

Like to me, it doesn't make sense. I I'm just saying I I want and I need more. I need to see the more of the bigger picture. I just can't see the small snapshots. So, council, I agree with you in in most of what you said. The only thing that I I sense is that according to what Emily is saying, once this is done, they're going to try to put a capital plan together so they can

specifically say this is what we're going to do and this is what the cost is and this is what we're going to That's fine. There's nine. I don't think she's she's going to try to come up with a number without knowing what all the capital plan what all the capital items are. It's it's it's more difficult that way. But I I listen whatever way they want to do it. That's what I'm

understanding she's saying. So, and I'm not saying I disagree with you at all. I I agree. We should have there there's there's nine counselors. Everybody's got to make their decision on what's going on. I will say I don't know how any counselor votes on this budget.

We have a $5 million deficit in healthcare. Our sole responsibility for budget is to vote on a balanced budget.

Correct.

So for me, I don't know why we're spinning our wheels. I say we send the budget back now. And I know we we can't do it until next week because we don't have a full council. But my recommendation is it's not fair to her if if the intent for us to go through this entire process have have department heads come back before us and just stop talking about things and we know we're

going to reject it because we want to see a five million $5 million added to you know the healthcare that's a significant change. So why put the department heads through a line of questioning if the budget's going to change to have them come back down for another round of questions. That's just that's just just my take. With that I yield. Thank you. Council seat six council party. Thank you Mr. President.

Um, so just a couple things because I want to give you the opportunity because we're not going to see each other unfortunately next week. So we'll be back. We can if you want me to be next week, I'll do it. I just thought it'd be a good I don't know if I will be though.

So um I already got plans. I'm on vacation. Um so next whether we meet next week or the week after doesn't really matter to me. I want you to have the ability to hear from my perspective what I would be looking for. And I think the council hearing what council and C1 just said, we should probably be looking for because we're going to either decide we're going to reject the budget, we're

going to reduce the budget, or we're going to approve the budget. There only three options that we have. Okay? And we don't have a full council meeting on our agenda tonight. So, we can't even act on it. So, you can take these things into consideration and then decide to come back with a supplemental next week so that we can talk about it again if you so choose. Okay? So, number one, I want

to just make a couple of comments. The budget that we have before us right now is not a balanced budget. There's nobody in any way, shape, or form that can convince me that this budget is balanced. Okay?

Um there's no repairs or capital in the budget for police cruisers. Now, I went back to the appropriation from FY20. The police department had $197,000 in capital. The fire department in FY20 had $80,000 in capital. In FY19, the police department had $ 160,000 and in FY19, $90,000 that was called gear uh fire gear and it was in the operating account that year as well. Fiscal year

2018, $90,000 for the firefighters for gear budgeted in the operating expenses.

Um and in FY18, $100,000 for police when it comes to capital. So it is it is very common a common place with the exception of a co being the exception that capital was included in our budgets. Yes. Yes.

Fully agree on that. So, so I think from my standpoint to council and seat one's point there needs to be a a plan and and the plan could be this which is coming to be extremely useless is this capital plan that dictates department by department what in and how it things are going to be funded in each fiscal year.

I mean we have two of them in front of us right here from June 2025 and then the year before that. Can I just clarify really quickly when the equipment the firefighter equipment that is the firefighter gear I and we should not consider as capital. So I do have that in there and it has been funded every year. It's considered capital though.

It's a it's a capital expense. It's a onetime expense when you're buying gear.

It's not a yearly thing. You're not budging any amount of the expense makes it not a capital expense. And and again that that's what I was trying to get at with him of the definition of capital.

Again, we can talk about it offline, but I want you to know I do have that and it has been funded every year and that Okay, but I I just want to make it clear my my definition of capital and your definition of capital might be two different things. I tried to say that and I my my capital is 5,000 or more. Like I understand that, but listen, 50,000 or more. Well, it depends what the

definition is and capital is capital.

Listen, capital is capital. So, so I just want you to be aware from from my standpoint. There's no question in and at least in my mind, you need to find $5 million somewhere and and budget the healthcare line correctly because it's it's not balanced correct. I think there's further conversations that I plan to have and documentation that I was planning on providing to you guys in

over the next week to help clarify that.

Okay. So, we'll give you that opportunity, but I don't know where I don't know how you can budget 47 million and and be shy by 5 million because according to the Department of Revenue, the Department of Revenue has total uh they define a balanced budget as having total expenses that are equal to or less than the revenues. Yes. Which I know you know. Yes. But that's not what's before

us right now. Okay. So, that's that's my first thing. In addition to that, you sent us over um an updated um ARPA ARPA investment income report that you did because you're going to be using $3.7 million in in revenue to balance your budget. You use it as revenue, the invested capital, $3,750. Correct. In It's just investment income. Investment income. That's what I mean. You're using that calculation

based on your money that you use in ARPA. That was a calculation you sent to us. No. No, no, no. That's I think I know exactly what you're misunderstanding in that because the total life of ARPA happens to have been 3.8 million and you're seeing the 3.7.

That is not that is not what that is.

What is it? What is it? So So there was a question about how much of the previous $6 million in 24 and the projected in 25 um investment income was from ARPA versus from general fund. So, and and there was opinions and and understandings that in the past that of the $6 million, four plus million of it was from ARPA. And so, that is showing you that yes, over a three-year period, $4

million was from ARPA, but not any one year of the $6 million was from ARPA.

And that's what that was. Fair to say that, but the calculation that you provided us that determines how you're coming up with $3.7 million doesn't doesn't math up. I didn't provide you an exact calculation of that number. Oh, that makes sense because I'm looking at this and I'm trying to add things up and none of it makes any sense. No, and that's why and I apologize for that miscommunication on that. That was to

answer the breakdown of what makes up the investment income. What I need from you, okay, at some point next week or leading up is how in the world you found a invested capital amount of $3 million, $3.7 million that you're going to use for revenue in this fiscal year that is very likely not to be there for revenue next fiscal year.

You're not going to be able to have that same invested capital in fiscal year 2026 in fiscal year 2027. That's not a it's not it's inconsistent.

Yeah, I think Yeah, there's a lot of clarification that needs to happen. Yes.

Because the year prior they used $500,000 of invested or several hundred,000. You didn't balance millions of dollars in invested capital in prior years.

Well, yeah, we should have I I think that there's a lot of confusion happening right now. Investment income is just from the bank account earning money on the general fund revenues that are sitting in there on a daily basis.

Stop. Stop. Stop. H what kind of interest rate and how much money does the city have in the bank account?

That's what is on that document. You have $50 million in usable money in the bank account at any given time to generate that. Yes. How is that even possible? We operate a $450 million budget. Yes. But how is it that how is it possible that the What kind of interest rate are we getting on?

If you let her finish her statements and don't tell her to stop, maybe she can Well, no. Because there's a misunderstanding, Mr. President. Maybe she'll understand. Well, let me ask her the questions. I don't need any clarification. Let her answer the question. Because we have, Mr.

President, we have an a a budget that is not balanced. I agree with you. I understand. She's answering the question. You're telling her to stop. We have a 4 and 12 because we're talking about two separate things right now.

Explain it. I will I'll ask her the questions. Go ahead. We have a 4 and a.5% interest rate right now. 4 and a.5% interest rate on how much money exactly I to get those total balances. I can tell you the average balances that are within that are upwards of $50 million that you're bringing in on a on a monthly basis to calculate $3.8 million.

But the the the number that you provided doesn't doesn't add up that way. I didn't provide a number of adding that up. I provided back history of the fund balances that are there that show you that an interest rate is being calculated off of those balances on average. So I was giving the back history of how that money came in each month to show you that the way the balances are fluctuating. This is the

amount of revenue that is coming in from it. And so that yes, that's those interest rates could go down and those levels could go down when you're talking about ARPA, but based on the way that is working forward, these are so I didn't give an actual calculation. I was trying to just give data. But you're using also unrealized gains as well.

No. Yeah. No, that's we I'd rather get full documentation to walk you through step by step rather than trying to just not look at something and off cuff say something because that is not that is you can't use unrealized gains. That doesn't work that way. The investment income includes change in fair fair value. However, the fair value changes are not reflected in the general fund investment income totals as it is

as it as as it still lives in the ARPA fund. Correct. So, the unrealized gains are still in ARPA fund and have not been transferred over to the general fund.

There's only a portion that has been transferred over there that has been realized and is actual cash. But you the cash that you're bringing in goes all the way from fiscal year 2021. That's not the cash I'm bringing in. That's what I'm saying. You're you're misunderstanding that that document was intended to say that that is the cash investment income I'm bringing in for next year. That is not maybe it's just a

coincidence because the number is 3.8.

It literally is a coincidence. It's it is a very bad coincidence in this moment. It's the craziest coincidence.

So um it very much is I I have been in the past prior to you being here when Mrs. Sahadi was here as a CFO. Yes. I sat in seat 8 and I advocated very loudly because I didn't believe her calculations when it came to motor vehicle excise tax. It was off by, I believe, maybe $2 million that year, right? And going back to it, she was right. I was wrong, which usually what

happened. But I didn't believe at that time that the projections and the analysis that was performed by that finance team and that administration made any sense to me. And what you're saying to me now, the coincidences are not, the utilization of invested capital doesn't make sense. And I don't believe in my opinion you should be using that to balance your budget. It's always been

a part of the budget, but it hasn't been at this level because of the way that investments were handled before now.

They we weren't investing it to the rate that we are now and we didn't have the fund balances to invest at the rate that we are now. That has changed over the last several years. ARPA aside, well, we'll we'll look we'll look for that more detailed analysis and highlight it for me because I'm I'm struggling with that. I'm good with the chief.

Okay. Yeah. Sorry. Any more questions for the real Mr. President? I think that she pays me to be your bodyguard. So, I got to stay up here until the chief uh you know has been here. Um no, no more questions. I would say a motion to adjourn in all. No, we still have questions. Other people still want to speak. We're almost through. So, we're not let Excuse me. Let the council

please finish. If the chief wants to go, there are no more questions for the chief. You're free to go, Chief. Bacon.

Thank you, Chief. You think I have to stay? Thank you. So, thanks. So, let me just say I'll wrap up by saying there's a lot there's a lot of work there's there's there's there's a lot of work in my opinion that still needs to get done.

And I'm happy to engage in conversation and debate with you about it in the mayor's office, just like I sent you a three-page email when you sent the budget. Right. But a lot of this that's coming before us right now is is it's it's it's a budget that is totally I know a a a moving living document every single year. Right. But from my standpoint, there's a lot of risks involved, especially not funding health

insurance where it should be.

I hear I hear Excuse me. Can you just please share it off afterwards? We're right in the middle of the meeting right now.

I I hear your your concerns and the miscommunications that have led to this point. So I I am I am been spending hours a day in working on putting together better documents and explaining things better and figuring out how we are going to communicate these things in a different way. Do you know where you're going to find $5 million? I I do. I have I have a response for your concerns on the $5

million. I absolutely do. You're not ready to give it to us yet? I I have been also then prepping for the next night of meetings. So I am actively working on it, but because I also wanted to make sure that the departments were prepared for these meetings. I it is not ready to share at this point in time. I've been working on it since Tuesday night.

I've been working 12-hour days every day. I'm I'm honestly doing the best I can to get out everything I can and not a communic and not continue to increase this miscommunication. None of this is targeted towards you. There's nothing.

Again, I said it before, I'll say it again. You're doing the best that you can with the resources that you have. I know that. We know that. The question is how it is being communicated to us.

That's why I sent you like a three-page email that asks so I can give you time to prepare where I'm coming from when I first got the budget. But things have changed and I want the opportunity for you to tell us where we need to be and how we need to get there. But like I'm just I guess I'm curious now how we we found maybe a solution for $5 million.

It's it's not that simple and it it I don't want to say something because I'm I'm getting held to what I'm saying and then it's confusing things further.

So there is a full explanation that I can walk through but I want to have it in writing and broken down clearly so that there is no further miscommunication or lack of clarification on what is happening because I I could say something I it all lives in my brain at all times but that's where some of the confusion is coming. Well, I'm sure you'll share with us soon enough. Good week. I yield.

Thank you. Constant C2, did you have your hand up through the chair to the clerk? Can you please tell me what the date is for day 45 of the budget?

It's June 28th, I think. I'm not sure.

Next week, Michelle. June 22nd. June 22nd. June 22nd. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

And just for the councils to know, yeah, it's a Sunday, so the next day would be June 23rd. My original thought was to have police department come down on Tuesday during the next regular council meeting when we have Mr. Oliver down and the rest of it. But I think I'm going to have her come down on Monday instead. So we'll schedule a meeting for Monday because that is probably be too long.

What's that date of a meeting to have the police department here, community maintenance, all those other departments and the regular council meeting. So, we'll probably move that up to Monday of the 9th. And if councilors want to continue this meeting, next week, even though I gave a week lapse in between the meetings, we can do that as well if it's the wish of the will of the council. Monday the 9th is my grandson's

graduation. I wouldn't be able to make it. That's fine. And then then you won't be at the But I'm not going to have a meeting Tuesday. No, that's fine. I mean, that will be here. And but I can't Everyone has schedule conflicts. So you said so that so the 45th day is the 22nd but it's a Sunday. I take a it's a June 23rd because the budget was filed on May 9th

instead of the 8th. Originally it was expected May 8th. In either case it would have been June 23rd because the 22nd is 23 Sunday. So 23 is the drop dead date. Yes. By chart it would have been June 23rd anyway. Okay. Thank you.

Got that.

Is the council okay with having meetings next week? Is that what I'm hearing from the counselors? Yeah. I mean, council, you can't be here Wednesday, correct? Uh, no, I can. Next Wednesday, I can be here. Next Wednesday. It's the Yeah, it's the follow the meeting. Maybe I I will I will look at the schedule and if anyone has a conflict, Mr. President, just ask the clerks to pull us if we

could just so I can I will, but I'll tell you right now, if we can get a forum, we're going to have it cuz I'm not going to if everyone can't make it.

There's there's every day. It happened last year. That's fair. Just just I will do that. I will I will come up with a schedule and have Thank you. I will do that. Thank you, counselor.

We have any further questions or counc I just want to clarify. I know, you know, the interim CFO has said I yelled at or I did not yell at I know I just listen I've got accused of bullying before. I've got investigations because of tones and questions. All I am saying is I did not yell at you. I'm sorry. I didn't disagreed. No. And um in terms yelling at you. She she was. And in terms of

being held to your words, all I'm I'm if you gave us an estimate like that, I'm not looking to hold you to a dollar amount. All I'm all I'm saying is is that obviously we have disagreements in different things and I'm okay with that disagreeing. Um we just need to respectfully disagree on on certain situations. So that's I do have a question for clarification from what you're asking for with the dollar value.

I you're saying a dollar amount that we're willing that the administration's willing to commit to capital in FY26, but are you saying specifically from the general fund or in general? General. And so it doesn't I don't have to identify necessarily the exact funding sources at this point in time. Okay. I can I can pro I can get an estimate of that. It obviously could come in a little bit

lower or higher as the needs are fully evaluated, but I can get something like that. I don't even need to know where it's going to be allocated to. I I I'm just I think from a council standpoint, we just need to know that we've got a commitment for 5, 10, 15, $20 million, whether that comes combination of stabilization grants whatever whatever the case may be. I just Fair enough. Emily, just just while I ask the

council, are you available next week if we have some meetings like Wednesday?

Absolutely. Thursday. Yeah. Nope. I'm fully here. Okay. So, I'm going to reook at that schedule and we'll go on the next probably make some changes. I live here and then the clerk will notify all the counselors. Okay. Well, everybody, there any further questions for tonight?

Motion to adjurnn. Second. Second.

Motion to Well, no. We're going to table it. Motion to table. Apologize. Motion to table. Second. Table as made in second. All in favor? Any opposed?

Motion to find enough table. So, you're thinking of scheduling meeting next week instead of the 9th. No, no. We're going to keep those dates, but I'm 10, 11, and 12. So, hold on one second. My visual thought was to have it on the 9th, Monday. We're going to have schedules Tuesday and Wednesday as well and Thursday, right? If possible. But my intent now is to maybe have some next

week as well. Instead of Monday the 9th, have it moved up to Wednesday. What's the date on Wednesday? Next week the fourth week. The fourth and possibly the fifth. Okay. The fourth. Fourth. Fourth.

I think you're not on the fifth. No, I'm not. Is I'm sorry. Is the fourth Monday?

No, Wednesday. Wednesday. And that's strictly for the f for the police department that wasn't here because I don't want to just because they weren't here. not going to inconvenience us on a regular night when we have people already coming and a council meeting. I I will just say with for that Thursday date it would be I wouldn't mind being able to go over some of these I'm going to say non-dep department questions

right which Thursday date you talking about the one council part either one either next Thursday or the following Thursday you could you know would you be ready to do it on Monday? No. Okay.

Okay. All right. Just check like Monday.

No. Give me a little bit more time to make sure I have everything fully fleshed out. I don't want to rush it.

People available on Tuesdays. Maybe we'll have it on Tuesday as well. I I probably won't be able to be here, but whatever the council wants to be. All right. Motion to adjurnn. Motion to adjurnn has been made and seconded. All in favor? Any oppos? City Council Committee on Finance is now a journ.

Good job, everybody.

over. Hey, hey hey.

Hey hey hey hey hey.