11.5.2024 FRPS Evaluation Subcommittee

Tuesday November 5th 2024 evaluation subcommittee meeting uh you want to do roll call Mr Bailey Mr Das here M perara here salute to the flag pledge allegiance to the flag the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and and pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting

or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged impermissible do we have any citizens inut we do not okay so discussion 3.1 discussion to revise the timeline um so as we know um we've just recently appointed the superintendent and the timeline that we

have followed in the past or that has been followed in the past has to be revised in order to keep us sort of on schedule so I did something which I think was preliminary so I want to know your you know your thoughts but um today obviously being the 5th if we can sit here and sort of establish the process we're going to use so that on the 18th our me our next meeting is the 18th

correct of November so our next meeting on the 18th we present that to the full committee any changes what have you and then we you know we have that uh that process voted on by the full committee so the superintendent knows the evaluation that we're going to be using um by our next meeting December 9th I would expect that the superintendent present her self- evaluation to us which

we need before we can evaluate so we would get that at the December meeting and then I would ask that the committee by December 30th so that gives you 3 weeks for the committee to get those evaluations to me and then that gives me two weeks to organize them together and present them back to the full committee on January 13th so I think that's as quick as we can go um but what are your

thoughts on the specifically the timeline um just no that sounds at least to me that sounds very well um I will say um I do have a question so this is us until January so we're not going to discuss the timeline for the next evaluation so then it would stop again it would it would go back correct to what it what it what it initially should be correct so right now we're kind of going rogue I

guess because we're only evaluating somebody who was hired you know in July I mean right so right now it's only been like three full months and change three and change months um right so by the time we do this so we would then assume go back to the timeline of she would have have to establish goals in August right we would go back next year I'm talking about next year but I would need

to at some point in this I would have to set my goals for this cycle correct so that next November I could be evaluated correct on those goals corre it's interesting the goals are supposed to be set in August it's it's off for three years in a row if I may add um I I think um this is it's it's all in one so this is sort of a um a question but in relative to

the timeline I don't believe we should be um evaluating any goals that you may have cuz just too soon even even by the time we get to January it'll still be like 6 months okay um I believe set we we should you should be submitting your goals to the full committee for the next evaluation very soon um and I think that should be within um the timeline yeah but but we but this short shorten

evaluation I don't believe we should be um evaluating those goals know of you agree that would be I don't disagree but there's a point there's a PO of the evaluation which directly talks to superintendent's performance goals we could eliminate that complete section which I I which I'm not opposed to okay yeah that's fine at least for this for shorten but would you agree that the goal should still be presented by

December or do you think are you saying because we're not using because we're not using her self self- evaluation um her her goal setting for this evaluation that we don't need to do it have our have them in by December or do you think that December timeline is still good in terms of just having them in for the following yeah so the go what you have here for the setting the goals

is for the next cycle um no I think even sooner I think even by the November meeting because we think we should have had this by now the only reason I put December is because generally in I don't have much more experience in this than you don't get me wrong but from what I understood or took my one takeaway I had last time was that while they're doing their self- evaluation they're also

reflecting on the evaluation tool we're using and what we're looking for but I guess she has it if that hasn't changed if we're talking about November great as as superintendent um I don't know though if we can if we're going to vote on the if we're going to be voting on the timeline I don't think we can just do that so we would have to submit that to the next meeting so I

think at the earliest do you know what I mean December would be so I think December would be the next meeting right so that would be okay I think so give her one meeting which I think is sufficient amount of time because right now we're already at the beginning about an eval meeting evaluation or I'm talking about a regular school committee meeting so if she presents her goals by our regular school committee meeting

which would be December 9th I think that's fair it gives her our time and it also gives the committee time to approve what we're what we're suggesting no I I don't you know what I mean I I agree with you um okay so we don't do we have to vote on sending this timeline over yes can I just ask a question on sure just to be clear so you're requesting that the

superintendent present her goals to the school committee for the next cycle correct in December because I Colin is saying which I agree with if she's setting goals does she really have time to accomplish any of the goals she's setting really we want to hear what she's going to do throughout the year that we then are going to evaluate her next year and say hey these were the goals you set at the

beginning of the year we watched you in your performance all year and now we're going to evaluate that so I understand what he's coming from what we're going to evaluate her on now I guess is what we're going to discuss next would you like me make a read this out into a formal motion of what we're yeah yeah can you read my uh jargon it's like half scrpt yeah I don't know okay let me see

here um I used to be a nurse I right in half hor and like a doctor um so I'll make a motion and I'll speak slowly that we refer um an abbreviated timeline from November until January um that November to January yes um that 11 that on 111 18th um you approve the timeline and the the process um December 9th the superintendent presents a self evaluation um December by December 20th

the evaluations are due by the school committee and by um J January 13th of um 2025 that the evaluations are presented to the full committee and that um by December 9th the superintendent also um provides their goals for the district for the next cycle that say yeah nope perfect so I guess second I do you want me to do a roll call well we sure sure Mr dice yes Miss Pera yes Mr

bile okay so the next part 3.2 so I was thinking that what we would do is kind of go through here so at first we thought we can't use this whole thing because we're not using the whole thing but to completely revamp a form that's already been you know is already being used and approved I don't think it's necessarily necessary I think that it's legally fine if we just put not applicable in the sections we're not

going to use sure um so I think that now we just kind of need to look through and say okay what are we not going to use this first section is just a greeing sheet right I believe we need if you want to go step by step um you don't think we need this page here which we just talked about that's the goal setting one right no I do not um where

do you want to start from I'm sorry superintend how about the first kind of like piece is the superintendent performance rating standard one instructional leadership I think it's page five or seven is it page two five of seven oh five of seven sorry I have eight pages on mine oh okay seven cird oh TR that one right um yeah so I had already had a thought of like eliminating those I don't know what you

think um but the ones that through yeah the ones that had anything to do with data because we really can't we haven't had time to evaluate her on any data per se say she hasn't G like you said she hasn't given us goals she hasn't um you know been working long enough I think for us to say if she's made any Headway as far as you know data I'm not opposed to referring that

to the folks made to discuss superintendent you have any thoughts um in terms of anything around standard one I eliminating the three eliminating D andf D andf um I think that there are there are elements it's hard because much of it wouldn't be thorough right so in terms of evaluation we are starting up the evaluation process but we wouldn't have date that speaks to um you know the rate

at which people are being evaluated which per per of um teachers and administrators were that would be something I think that you know needs an ual cycle the data informed decision making I think some of that piece is tricky because a lot of the district level planning um in which I engaged was in my previous position um in preparation for this year um coming out at the end of last year so I think that

piece of it gets a little bit tricky because it was in my former pres um position um and yeah and so part after the student learning piece uh um demonstrates expected impact on student learning based on multiple measures of um yeah I I I would agree then that de and F I think are are pieces that we could um that would wait that would require really a full

year I I'll make a motion that we um if we're going to go through this line by line I'll make a motion that we strike referred to the full committee standard one with Section d e and f stricken okay second col I'm sorry you said to refer make a yeah make a motion yes to refer um stand super standard one instruction of leadership to the full committee with Section d e and f

stricken okay Mr Bailey Mr Das yes M Pereira yes the other one was management and operations I thought B and E should be stricken but take a look I feel like the others there's something that we can evaluate on but those I think are more difficult definitely e

support if I can ask I don't know if anyone necessarily has the answer to the question but when it says this strictly developing a budget or um approving different line items throughout the throughout the year either expenditures bills Etc are you talking about the E uh yes I look at it as the budget because it starts with Developers develops a budget that supports District Vision automatically she hasn't you know um

really completely done that um and then it says district allocates and manages expenditures consistent with districts again we're looking at 3 months of expenditures I don't know I just don't feel like I don't feel like that one I feel she hasn't done the budget yet right I agree I do agree with you on the budget she spent so far we don't know yet the outcome of that you know if

there had if there had I'm saying money you've spent but I'm saying if there have been any changes and money allocated most of those things we don't have an outcome for yet so some Committee Member I do agree with you on and the only reason I did the human resource one because again she just started I don't think we can really um I don't think she has significantly developed or implemented any kind of like cohesive

approach to uh recruiting nor do I expect her to have done anything that we' be able to evaluate in three months I'm looking at it as of now right it's only been about four months right as of now July August September October so like four months so I look at that time frame even though we're going to be submitting this a few months from now I'm looking at my perspective is now I

wouldn't know what to evaluate in sections b& e because I don't feel like I have enough quick question going back to the timeline um so say it just gets approved um and we send something and then the district I mean the committee approves the timeline when would we receive this document as a as a school committee for you to can fill out yes what was the date we just um you could

receive it whenever you wanted really um the committee would get as soon as we decide so once it's decided here the committee would get a um a draft socalled of the tool I would say at the November 18th meeting yeah and I would say we get a this with the not OP or whatever we agreed on correct that would be what would be presented at the November 18th meetings because the committee the full committee would need

to approve the tool and then on at the December 9th from the timeline that is being referred the superintendent at that point then presents her self eval to the committee mainly for the purpose yeah yeah so that way the committee knows what they're going to be evaluating her on so basically and then what you stated on your timeline um you would want to have all evals from the school committee by 12:30 mhm I did say

12 he said 12:20 I think in the thing and I thought that might be a better idea because honestly they're going to get it done before Christmas probably it's my thought process but this may anyway too somebody for some reason can't get it done by the 20th life happens the 20th you did but that's okay because when you said it I went oh I like it better so I I was I was good

with it but um because honestly sometimes life happens so if somebody does have to extend it then it's okay it still gives me time um and then this way the goal is get in before the holidays anyway yeah and then 113 you would be presenting it right um so I would say Colin that if we if we say if we say okay we agree on this this here we agree on eliminating ABC whatever and Deb goes

that to and hopefully if they if they if they like it the way it is then great if not there may have to be some changes cuz there could be something amended for sure right right I I agree with you on on B and I honestly I think for the next cycle as well I just I just don't like the we be worded either because um well I I I like the fact that I mentioned

recruitment H and induction I think there's a little bit more to human resources and you know know managing um situations that come about which I believe um that's in other sections though like there's other sections that deal with like are you talking about issues with like employee issues and things like that there's other sections that um specifically address that okay so this is basically just more um the de

more development of staff and the management of the human resource department is she pushing them to you know come up with creative recruiting tools are they you know doing the things they need to do there is another section I believe actually it might be in the next thing sure and we can get there to um in in terms of in terms of e um I'm if maybe we can um strike a sentence out

because I believe even by the time we get to December and I even believe now with the allocation and managing of expenditures could assistant with district and school level goals I think we've had a lot of um allocations that come down to light me sure thank you all right so strike out develops a full budget right obvious develop a full budget that supports to a district Vision goals okay and then we can say

allocates and manages expenditures consistent with DEC school goals does that sound good yes okay I'll make a motion that we strike um section B out of standard two and strike out one sentence out of section e that states develops a budget that supports the district's vision mission and goals second Mr Bailey Mr Das yes M Pereira yes um this one is family community community engagement I

mean I kind of looked at it and the only thing I thought that could be maybe taken out would be c um and only because it's only because it states um engages in regular you know two-way culture and I don't know how much time she's had to actually do that um but the rest of them are pretty I think General and I think there we could I think we could definitely evaluate her

um on most of these things what are your thoughts I I agree with you do you think strike C or just leave it or um I actually think we could leave c yeah first it they're all kind of yeah I think so I see where you're coming from though with your regular way okay okay all right and the next one this is the professional culture one so this is the one calling that I think

this somewhere in here like managing conflict um you know between employees District school Community um let's see okay the only one I looked that I thought maybe could be uh stricken would be D um and it's because it says it talks about using data and research and again things we don't really have yet this time around um and sort of using that data and research to develop strategies um which obviously is

the goal of what of what she's going to do but I don't know that that's something we could evaluate her on right now so that was the only one I saw there that I thought could be taken um could be taken up thoughts superintendent do you have any thoughts um yeah I mean I I can see where that I think that that I think that we could that we could strike that I think

that could make sense um so one one question and um I I'll vote in favor striking it I don't need it tonight but if um in over when term if maybe just from my advocation of like when um we restart receiving different data from different curriculums or whatnot um if the committee could receive um a date on that like when we should be receiving those that would be data on curriculum anything that would um be

relevant to that section okay um I mean your student data I mean what do you believe this would usually be used for this section so so as you know as I've read through these before and we're looking at them again um tonight it there's an element of you know me immediately saying like kind of what's the evidence of that what's the artifact what's the thing um and so I don't for that I think that

it's about um you know kind of that a public messaging really around um you know it can be it will show up in the way we support people to do goal setting at the beginning of school years around their St student learning and professional practice goals and the communication around that um you know ways in which I'm working with uh principles right now so I have you know people that I evaluate and I you know

I'm having goals meetings with people right now so that they can set their goals uh personal and professional and student learning goals for um the coming year and so I think that I think it shows up there in you know documentation of of those um discussions and communication around that um so there I guess it's the depth of it right continuous learning like that to me seems when you're when you're developing

and nurturing a culture it's like what does that look like in in over the course of four months um if I could give I could give you some artifacts that would show the kinds of discussions and goals revisions discussions I'm having with people but is that really solid and really impactful evidence that I'm developing and nurturing a culture I I don't know so do you is your opinion

this should be modified or just strucken I I I feel like I for this this is this time around I think we could actually I do think it's one that we could probably strike um I will say that personally want to be able to offer very um solid evidence that people could look at and say that could show like you know a kind of a body of work which I wouldn't have

had over the last four months and so I think that's what makes I mean so many of these difficult um I feel like I could give you a piece of evidence to say yes I do this but doesn't mean I do it or does it mean there's evidence that I've done it one time or you know whatever it is so um um I just think in general we it'll be we have to be I

don't know careful about um what the expectations are in the first four months so yeah I'll make a motion to strike section D out of um standard

four you I think this yeah I think that the committee has had conversations and I feel confident that um everybody's well aware that we're evaluating four months or five months um and that that obviously is going to change the approach a little bit and I think everybody understands that um so did you you make the motion second sorry second Mr Bailey Mr di yes M Pereira yeah yes so that's all of them so Deb could we

would you be able to give us everybody a copy of this with just not applicable or whatever stricken yeah so this first this first part here none of that's changing well this first page is sort of like where you put all the information at the end so that's not going to change that's like what calculation I think there's a few um I don't know if you want to under the end of

cycle um I don't know if we already did this if we did um strike out for end of cyle summer simulative valuation report um since this is the first step is specifically about goals maybe we can I'll make a motion to strike that step one step one yeah okay yeah that makes sense so strike out step one of the cumulative evaluation report and then we keep step two and step three because that's just right I

I'll even go for I'll even make a motion add to that motion um to include striking out the superintendent performance goals out of this section which one is that step three not the next page step two oh yeah we're going to strike this one all step one and two no so no no step one so end of cycle Summit uh evaluation report just step one okay okay then when you go down the superintendent's performance

goals we're going to eliminate that whole page because that's where she's listing her goals I'm going to give that step at the end of this we're going to eliminate this whole page which is just the superintendent performance goals so that's because that's all related to her goals we're going to get rid of the whole page and then again and then everything else we went through and V it on

to should we do like one last you have here discussion vote to approve the tool should we do one last vote to approve this in completion of what we're presenting with the timeline well the timeline was actually approved so I make a motion yeah make a motion to refer oh can I just get a on that um Mr Bailey Mr Das yes Miss Perera yeah

I can just ask one more quick question on um three dash just um just how it's been done in the past usually when a superintendent comes on um do they do they usually um their goals do they usually submit that to the committee or is it usually or does that usually have to go with the Ral because um I'm just trying to think do you even need this rubric to be approved for yourself to submit goals

to the to the um to the committee it's a goal setting meeting that the superintendent has with the school committee because it's the superintendent's goals along with the school committee goals so she presents those goals to the school committee it's a it's actually a meeting prior to our actual meeting and um does that even have anything to do with EV evaluation those once they're approved she presents them

at this goal setting meeting and then she receives feedback from the committee on those goals this is what has happened in the past she applies those feedback to her goals and then the following month she then brings it it's an agenda item on the um agenda for approval of the school committee so once the school committee approves it those are now her goals for that cycle for her to be

evaluated on for that following gear right thank you for that um I guess my question was if you already have um goals um drafted and if you wanted to submit it sooner to the committee maybe at our November meeting what is that um I think I can probably put some of together for November okay because does that mean we would have to meet for 30 minutes prior we're not going to there's

no way we're going able to do that no right I don't think I mean one thing I could do I mean whatever I can I can offer something in advance of the um it's a little tricky because December 9th is going to be it's literally two weeks later because our meeting in November is later it's push back it's literally like two or 3 weeks later yeah um so from the timeline that the chair

and D is talking about it looks as though that goal setting meeting could be set for DEC December right well if we if we're if we're if we're stating in what we what we sent to the full committee the um timeline we sent we said at the December 9th meeting she'd be presenting it to the which means we would have already had that meeting prior with her correct no I'm I'm taking it as that

goal setting meeting would be the goals that she's putting in place for her next cycle right what she's going to be presenting to the committee in this is how I'm taking it and I could be wrong okay uh but what she's going to be presenting to the committee in December is her eval is her self evaluation assessment yes based on what it is that you've decided here on this got you

correct that I mean am I wrong with you I think the tricky part is is usually when there's a full annual evaluation right so technically what would usually happen is like I would get I'd go through a full cycle I'd get evaluated there'd be feedback in that evaluation I would then use that to craft or at least it would influence in some way my goals for the following year the tricky part is I will

get I will be evaluated in January after I have already submitted goals in December you know it it's not a perfect process yeah if I if I if I could just ask a question comments so like with the the goals that we're we're not that's why we're not going to evaluate your goals this time around but I understand where you're coming from so it might influence but usually I guess like but

this is your first time being evaluated as a superintendent you're new to the position when does usually a superintendent submit the their goals like their an their original goals to the committee is it usually I heard it was right away is it this technically right um I would have there would have been this kind of meeting back in August to set some kind of goals for the year but we but that

didn't happen um and then it got so I would have been set if I was just brand brand new people we we would have sat down without I don't know I don't know I know that people are trying to stick to a timeline which I completely respect because in the past we've had superintendents submitting their goals at the same it's December even though they were here the year before we were still doing goal setting in December

real when you said um this this meeting are you referring to eval or a full committee you're talking about full committee they meet in August usually or we talk but it hasn't happened I would say that goal setting meeting it's either August or September right it's supposed to but in my experience having attended um Mrs Pon is they have been happening later later um and a lot of

that had to do with the fact that the um the evaluation it does make sense for an evaluation to happen late October November because that's when we have all of the district um assessment data all that account ility data comes in in the fall and the evaluation very much can be dependent on that because you set goals around that accountability data so then now you've you've gotten your data

you're getting your feedback from school committee and now you set new goals for the following year but the way the timeline is set by this committee it says like August September right technically is when August September school committee and superintendent establish goals yes so we have this established policy around the evaluation cycle which has not been in practice for a while why correct cu the

last time that the last time that and you're correct uh superintendent the last time that that was actually followed with that timeline was with Matt Malone why we um why does the the the goals meeting have to be separate from the normal school committee meeting just the way it's been done I just don't see the issue of having it as an agenda item during a normal meeting I don't either I

don't know if it's just the way it's been done I think it was a little bit I mean more ask why don't you okay more inform um it was kind of like a just sit you know the attendance was taken I mean it was also recorded and so forth because it is a meeting um but I think it's a little bit more informal uh with regards to the superintendent you know presenting her

goals and then the school committee um um providing feedback on them possibly adding to it or you know giving her you know feedback in regards to what it is that they they were looking for what they're not looking for and so forth and then the with that feedback being taken she would make the adjustments and then that would be um brought to the committee the following month for approval of the um school committee cuz

the school committee essentially needs to approve those goal then now they're in place and then she has those goals that she'll be moving forward with all right do you have anything else not no do you need a did you want to make a motion to is the committee looking for I'm sorry I just want to make sure that because I know it's a modified but I also don't want when it

when we're at the full committee I don't want somebody coming with a question I want to make sure that all are te's are crossed and eyes are dotted sure is the committee looking for the superintendent to provide um evidence with any of these that they're going to be evaluating or because normally when it's a full cycle normally the superintendent has a binder with artifacts and evidence and that is

available to any of the school committee members but with this being modified and the committee only evaluating the superintendent on only four or five months of her being in this position and the tool being modified to only what's applicable what is the committee looking for as evidence or is the committee just looking for her to do her self assessment based on those I mean I can speak for myself and but I would say

that I don't expect seven months of a self- evaluation you've been I mean seven months four months five months as long as you've been in the job I think the self-evaluation is helpful for us to see where you know um someone sees their strengths or their weaknesses or where they're going or promoting things they've done that maybe we haven't seen or or acknowledged um that's why I think

it's important that you sort of you know say hey this is what I've been doing the last five months you know these are the things I'm looking you know these are the things I'm working toward again not necessarily establishing goals that we're going to be you know evalu in you on each goal but I think a self evaluation is is an important part of it it's an important tool so I think that's

what I'd be looking for and not necessarily evidence right okay if there's evidence sure that's what you would present it but I think we can only expect so much we don't have data we don't have what evidence are we going to have so I wouldn't imagine that wouldn't be something I would expect at this point we would have okay but I mean no if there is evidence to um some of the

questions on here that you have that um you started by I agree with Miss per there just going to be so much of a sample size we're going to be looking at but if um I mean I think it's more looking at this um disagreeing Mr PR's point but adding my own opinion why this is good that we're having this early if there's anything we would um as committee members like to um add as a

way of helping you um or things that we've noticed um delete to leave comments as well I think it'll be helpful for you to set your goals going I agree I agree and I think that um so I I will say and I appreciate um that question that you asked in terms of the expectations I think um it's good to hear it out loud I mean I as part of my self assessment that self eval my

intention is to provide evidence where I can right so it's providing a narrative um where I'm assessing myself against standards usually be assessing myself and my practice um against goals as well but against the standards and it's it is a very good time to just do some reflection and really think through um these as expectations these are indicators of of um proficiency here so to be able to think through those and

say like oh I I need to focus a little bit more in this area because even though I'm doing the thing where is the evidence that I am doing Xin so I I feel comfortable with that and I feel like I will have more evidence for some than others and then that will help me set some goals um if if maybe um I just and I hate to go back but just

a an idea and I think you you would be supportive of this because a lot because since it is 4 months so for a lot of these we have unsatisfactory needs Improvement proficient exemplary maybe we add a fifth column that says um um not enough data but I think those would be should be the not applicable stuff or I get what you're saying you're saying if an individual feels like they feel like I

don't have enough data to make an evaluation and a super I'm fine with that I'm fine with that yeah but um so just where um where what page are you looking at col he's talking about everyone oh oh okay well all the um right all the um the standards standard one two and three says unsatisfactory needs Improvement proficient and for an exemplary and where it says those he's saying if we could add a section that's

um what's the word you yeah not are not applicable but Le I think it should be um Committee Member discretion if it's um they believe it's not not enough information on enough information or the superintendent wants to give say believe there's not enough information to give enough evidence to to back some of these um and then we can definitely debate as a committee but at least giving you that option so I'll

make a motion that we include in standards 1 through 4 a fifth section answer section that says um not acable SL not enough data

second s Bailey Mr J yes M Pera

yes motion to adjourn

second Mr Bailey Mr D yes M Pera yes