4.14.2025 City Council - Ordinances and Legislation

My Over.

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legislation come to order. The clerk can call the role. Council Kadim here.

Council Hart here. Council Reposa here.

Council Samson here. Cher here. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings and transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Do we have um citizen input?

The first person that signed up for citizen input, Richard

Branco almost. Hello people. Hi Mrs. Per, Mr.

Hot, Mr. Kadine, Mr. Reposo, sir, Mrs.

whatever your last name is.

Samson. Samson. Thank you.

Uh, long story short, I know that you guys are here in press of discussing rates and stuff like that. I know as someone that can view the city like no one else, the impact of these increases, rates are now going to cause more displacement.

And the city of Far River really doesn't have a plan set up yet to cover that displacement issue because with every single increase you put into the next budget, not all good not all landlords are like Sarah Cavalo. They're not good landlords. There are bad landlords that will take your increase and then charge their tenants 50, 100 bucks. And we're already at the limit, I believe, because

we don't have jobs out here. We really don't have the good paying jobs that were promised after NAFTA left. You know, in the future, there's ways to do it. And the other thing, if you guys like sending letters to the mayor, maybe we can send you guys on behalf of me can send a letter so I can propose an idea I have that's going to definitely help this transitional period

of displacement and it could lead to the steps of the city truthfully getting rid of the appearance of homeless.

Yes. Thank you. Thank you.

The next person to speak is Kelly Buchanan on water rates.

Hello all. Hello. How are you guys? All right. So, basically, I spoke last time um raising again another 5% it's just killing everybody, right? Like the gentleman just said, the landlords, not all landlords are going to be able to not raise rents and people already maxed out. Um, not really sure why it needs to go up another 5%. We went up, I believe it was 24% last year, if I'm correct.

So, that was a big increase. Clearly, I hate to say it, but somebody doesn't really know how to budget. We we're budgeting money we're not using, like the fluoride we found out last time. um Westport not paying their fair share and other things. There's got to be cuts.

There's got to be a break for us the taxpayers. We just keep getting tax tax.

Even with property tax, like I said, 11.8% I believe it was. I went up every year. That's a lot. Of course, landlords are going to I mean I haven't done it, but it's going to end up happening eventually. I'm going to have to raise rents and I don't want to. But you're forcing us no other choice. And the other thing to look at our senior citizens, we're killing they they get 3%

at max for cola. You want to go up 5%. I mean 5% for the next 5 years. So within 6 years, we're going to go up 49%. That's a lot. So I'm just asking for you guys to for a no vote. Give us a break. Give the taxpayers a break. We pay enough. There's got to be things we can cut in the budget. Like the fella said, I got plenty of ideas. I would

love to review the budget. I would love to see an audit done on all departments, not just a numbers thing. Let's see line by line. What what are we spending our money on? Because I feel as a taxpayer, I get nothing in return for all the taxes I'm paying. That's just me. I don't I'm not receiving anything in return. I'm just paying and paying and paying. So, I just ask you kindly just

think about it. Think about the people.

Give us a break and just vote no. Thank you for It's easier than saying yes.

Thank you.

Item number one on the agenda is a proposed or ordinance for FY26 water and sewer. Uh note that there has been a change done to it. So if there's a motion to amend the ordinance with the updated rates, if I can get a motion to amend. Motion to amend ordinance. There a second. Second. All in favor?

Thank you, Mr. Furlin.

Good evening, council members. Good evening. If you could both just state your name in position for those watching at home and those in the audience who might not know who you are. So Paul Furland, administrator of community utilities, oversee water and sewer for the city of Fall River. Emily Arky, interrum director of finance.

All right. Excellent. Thank you very much. Any questions or do you want Mr.

Furlin to just give a presentation on his presentation for us? Okay. Yeah. No, thank you very much, councilors. Uh in front of you, uh you just voted on uh amending the uh auditances uh as originally proposed. Uh originally the ordinances that were proposed were support to support a budget uh as was recommended by a consultant last year with a 5% increase uh this year and uh in the next three years as well. That's

how that budget was constructed. Uh and then on the water side it was a total of eight uh and that was to assist to replace the amount of free cash that was used last year uh within the water budget. Um, so that's what was proposed.

Uh, after the last meeting with the city council, uh, I went back, uh, to, uh, my committees and with the administration and everybody else in involved, we went back and we reviewed a budget, uh, of what we could, uh, live with based on, uh, you know, building it from the budget side up, uh, not looking at it from the percentage increase on the rates. Uh, so that's what's been provided to you within the revised

budget. Uh the revised budget for uh sewer uh has been and do you want me to take water and sewer together as one?

Sure. Okay. Uh so the provos uh budget for sewer is $32,785,387. Uh so that's a reduction of a little bit over $200,000 from the original uh proposed amount. Um that took uh the proposed rate prior was $8.51. It dropped that uh proposed rate down to uh $843. Uh there again is no increase on the storm water fee uh which was uh also recommended to increase by the 5%. Uh so that's a fixed fee where there's no

increase. Uh that's an increase from the prior fiscal year uh on the rate of 32 cents uh increase from the prior fiscal year. Uh average household impact uh for that is $16.96. Um for the water budget, uh total revised budget uh that has been proposed that these rates support would be $16,571,442. Uh that uh again is a little bit under a $300,000 increase from the prior uh from the previously uh

proposed budget. Um the uh rate to support that budget uh is $441. Uh so that uh previously it was presented at $4.58. Uh so there was a uh reduction there. Um the uh rate increase is 17 per CCF. Uh so se 17 cents per CCF. Uh there is no rate increase to base meter fee.

Uh and then uh the um re revised effect on the average household is $91 on the average household. Within this budget, there was a uh there was a revenue source of $200,000 that was used uh that was plugged in from the settlement for Westport as a revenue source within this uh budget. Excuse me, I didn't hear that amount. Five uh 297.

No, we we use 200,000 within this budget. Just 200,000. Just 200. Correct.

Again, that's a one-time money. Uh that's a funding source that's not reoccurring. Uh so that's why again, if you remember from last year, we were looking uh retained earnings has always been used in the past, which was a one-time funding source. Uh we did not have that last year, and that's one thing that led uh to the launch rate increases last year.

Uh so overall within the budget some of the cuts that uh that we made both water and suicide were very similar. Uh some of them were to some other personnel cost um that cut out uh any type of internships that we would be able to have uh co-op students uh or other type of uh assistance that that we may have for a personal uh within that's that's where that gets funded from. um we did

reduce the uh the capital expenditures within within both line items uh as well. So that's one of the uh things those are a couple of the things u which made up a larger portion of the decrease within uh within the overall budget from the prior proposed to the current proposed budget. So just on the overall impact of rates to the customers, uh there's been a lot of talk of uh how

customers will be impacted. Um and you know I've heard everything from 12 to 15% everything is going to go up to uh all over the place. The actual calculation again is based on uh a standard household. um that standard household by our calculations uh as you know going through and using the average of over 16,000 residential accounts uh within our system uh breaks down and with that 16,000 uh the calculation

breaks down to 50 just over 50 CCF for the average household. Uh we use 53 CCF historically that's what we've always used uh and that's what I'm comfortable with using going forward. So the average household um using 53 CCF per year uh is a 2.9% increase uh for their average household bill. Um so currently as it as it calculates out uh $910 uh $91055 uh to $93652 per year uh for the average

household bill. Uh again, that's under a 3% increase for the average household.

Uh and that increase equates to less than uh 6 and a half cents uh per a day uh for the increase to the average household. Again, if you have a household, if you have a three family, there may be three households there. So, you can't say that, you know, three family is going to go up the same amount. Uh if you do look at the other calculations, so a larger household, uh

if you wanted to break it down, uh this was a uh a larger user, uh somebody that uses uh 32 CCFs per quarter. Um so on the average household, we're 13.25 CCFs per quarter. Uh on a large household, uh we're 32 CCFs per quarter. And this is where a lot of your three families may may fall within that range. um you're looking at an increase of 3.4% uh to to those uh households. So again,

at the last meeting, I did provide a PowerPoint presentation which showed how many estimated how many types that we have that fall within these ranges uh on this as well. So I just wanted to make sure that that number was out there and clear uh for the impact on the average Mr. and uh we received more than 200,000 from Westport. I don't believe that the council yet voted on that. So I don't

even know how that could be part of this budget when we still haven't voted on it. Don't we have to vote on it? Are you thinking that we don't have to? So again, the um the Westport settlement is approved by the waterboard. Uh again, I'm not sure that the council that there is uh an appropriate means at the council to vote on that and accept that.

Uh that's my understanding of it. I'm not a uh I'm not a you know politician u parliamentarian uh to fully understand uh the the legal how it's been explained to me. The water board has accepted that as they oversee the billings uh in relation to the to the water and shore.

uh the it is in discussion with the council and the water board definitely does understand that and acknowledge that and that's why they have not signed off on that uh agreement as of yet.

Well, that's what I'm saying. They haven't signed off on it yet, but it's already in here at 200,000. And the issue that I had is when that negotiation was done, you were there present and Mr. Akens was present.

However, Westpor had a member of the board, the water board. Um they had a selectman, they had their town administrator, and they had a legal team. What's that legal team that we had hired? Whatever. KP Law. KP Law was there. We had no legal representation there. Although Mr. Akens is an attorney. He is not the attorney for the city. He was the city administrator. So yes. So they had one representative from

the uh select board, right? Um they didn't have anybody um the water board.

They I thought they had one from the water board. I'm not even sure if they have a water board. They they have an infrastructure. I'm not sure how they work, but I believe the gentleman from the select board sits on both.

Right. Uh and they had one person from KP Law that was there. Yes. And the town administrator. And the town administrator. I mean, I find that very odd that we wouldn't have our own legal representation there. Um, and maybe that's a matter for our legal team to look at because although Mr. Akens is an attorney, she is not the attorney for the city. So that um that's concerning

to me. How much do you have in in your enterprise funds?

Enterprise fund. The retained earnings the retained earnings within enterprise funds.

Uh so they were certified this year um from FY24 is 850,000 for water uh 1.95 for sewer.

Does anybody else have a question?

Council Kadib. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Uh, just a couple questions. So, I I know you've given this to us in the past. I just can't find it. So, a 1 cent increase for water and sewer generates is it 50,000? Is that what we said? Uh, so on sewer it's about 31,000 roughly. Excuse me, on water it's roughly about 31,000. Uh, on sewer we're roughly about 26,000. Okay.

And then in terms of the agreement, so the there is a new agreement with Westport, right? Correct. So there has not been an agreement that's been executed or anything like that. Um there was a uh we did send them a draft agreement back in 2018. Um my predecessor sent that to them. Uh there had been discussions on that but nothing you know one of the things through this whole negotiations I would enter into

agreement with them without uh the past buildings being settled I guess when you when you maybe we're talking about two different things are we are you talking about the agreement for settlement intermunicipal so the current right the current intermunicipal agreement that we're under goes uh the old one expired in 23 and it's yet to year after that based on the same terms so the only

reason I so I watched the Westport border selectment and they don't have a board commission. So, it's the selectmen that actually vote on it. So, Jim Hartnett, who's the town administrator over there, was presenting to the board of selectment on March 10th. He he stated that there was a new agreement in place that reduced the rates from 70% to 50 55%.

Um, and I guess the ceiling was 26,000 CCFs. Um, and then anything over that 26,000 was a was a 5% uh increase of the rates that were approved at our Yeah, I can tell you there there is not a a new one in place as of yet. I'm not sure what uh Mr.

Hotman said at his uh committee meeting.

Um, all of our current all of our updated intermunicipal agreements uh do uh do have um up to a certain ceiling amount, a 55% increase. And then above that is a 5%. One of the reasons that we did that uh and all of those intermunicipal agreements come down to the council and approved by the council.

Uh so we have one currently uh for uh water and sewer with Freetown that's stated like that. Water and sewer with uh Tivotan that's stated like that as well as that is it at the 55% 55 to a certain ceiling and then it drops to 5%.

uh and Westport sewer uh the sewer one also has that not water. So we we don't have any agreement with them or any we haven't had any type of negotiations or discussions with them that would lead them to believe that that would drop from 70% and I guess so that's question one. Question two, if that is the case, in the budget that you presented, there's no loss in revenue. So, we're

capturing So, the revenue that you had for Westport is assuming that they're still paying 70% over the Fall River rates. Yes, correct. I haven't I haven't adjusted for that. Um, but uh you know, in Westport, there may be future growth uh with their new water water loop that they're added in. So there may be additional customers again which I didn't realize until uh until that increase uh comes. So in that meeting

they had mentioned that any new growth that's coming in would be at the 5% because they're already at the ceiling of 26,000 CCFs. I I just don't know how accurate that is. So that that was what was stated at the public meeting. Yeah.

So, so again, uh I can tell you the in 2018 there was a draft uh intermunicipal agreement sent over to Westport that did have that uh that did have that same exact again. That's when we redid a bunch well a bunch of the intermunicipal agreements were up. Uh we went to Westport, you know, from my understanding, my predecessor sent it over to the town administrator of Westport at the time to say, "Hey, we

want to talk about a new agreement." Uh so uh one of the things and you know that was expressed to the council back when we did the other intermunicipal agreements. The reason that we're doing this and putting this sailing uh and you can do so tidbit and wastewater they have that same agreement once they hit a certain ceiling uh it goes up to uh it goes down to 5% and that's what helps

them try to grow out their systems. So again, at the last meeting, you know, uh, President Ontario of the water board was down here explaining that we need to sell more water. That's one way for us to be able to, uh, entice them to be able to get more customers tied in, buy more water from us is if they have if they hit a certain ceiling. Uh, historically, I would have

to go back and, uh, and, um, you know, look exactly at what that what that, you know, amount is. uh that they use on a year. I believe they're under that 26 and that's typically where we set the target. So to try to get them to build up above that. I'll also say that I think our um the water that we own is is almost like um Greenland Westport wants

to come over and take it over. Uh so apparently they want to have a regional water board and and tell us how much we charge uh for the use of water. Just just so you know. That's that was also part of that. Okay. I again I didn't watch that meeting though. That that's an interesting interesting concept. So that that answers my question. So we don't have any revenue reductions based

on any new inmate school agreements with with Westport. Do do you know how much roughly if that was to be reduced? Have you even run the numbers?

Okay, that's that's fair enough. Um with that I yield.

The new growth in Westbo was going to be about another 3,000 people on it. But I did watch that meeting and he did say that it was going to be 55 until it reached a certain level then it would go to 70 which I was confused with because I thought it was said at the council meeting that they paid 70% over what we paid and I thought that that would be on

the front end 70% not on the back end um of 70%. So I was just as confused as you were and he did make it sound like it was a done deal. It was a done deal.

Yeah, he did. You might want to watch that. Yeah, I I can. It's pretty interesting. I can tell you there, you know, there hasn't been uh 2018 we sent them that draft because that's what was in other intermunicipal agreements. Uh we've had discussions through these talks in rel in relation to uh these types of things, but I can tell you there is no agreement in place.

Hopefully, we'll work on selling council proposal. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh Mr.

Flin, one of the questions I know uh council ponty asked the last meeting was if the storm water fee were to be eliminated, what would the impact on the rate for sewer be? Did you have an opportunity to run that? Hypothetically speaking, of course, apologize for not getting that. Sorry, what was the question? If if storm water was eliminated, what would the impact on the sewer rate be per CCF?

This thing's really loud. Sorry, I missed that question. You can do a while he's doing that, can I just throw my uh two cents in on that? You can. I I know folks don't like the stormwater fees, but if we're if we're talking about rateayers, especially um people who are on fixed income, the storm water fee is the most fairest option that we have because it's a fixed cost and you know,

obviously people who are not using a lot of water and not paying as much sto.

Yes. So, just by just by my quick calculations as we sit here, and please don't specifically quote me on this, but it's roughly about $2.37 that our storm water that our sewer fee would have to increase uh if we were to delete the storm water fee.

Yeah. So, you're looking at 10 and a half 10 and a quarter 10 and three/4ers actually for correct sewer if that was the case. Okay. Yeah. And one thing again just uh just to expand on council the stormwater fee what it does too because it's based on an eru equivalent residential unit. So that's when you get into commercial properties or larger than eight families uh that gets into

2800 square ft. So some of these large uh facilities that may not use a lot of water may have a couple of bathrooms for office staff or something like that. uh this gives you know equals out the amount of uh for the amount of payment that they're making to the city because they're charged for the impervious area they're building their parking lots and those types of things. Just going to run

through some numbers on the on the budget if you could just indulge me a little bit and some explanations. Um so on the water uh water administration capital you have um 250,000 from FY25 but 300,000 for other improvements. If you can clarify what that is please. Yeah. So other capital other improvements that's a line item that we have within the budget.

Sorry what what page is that? There's no numbers. It's uh underwater second third page. third page.

That was halfway down the page. Water administration capital uh other improvements. So that's a one line item that we carry within our budget for any capital expenditures uh capital expenditures and what we're planning on next year uh would be a new backhoe. Uh believe the one that we have is a late 1990s model. We have we have three uh and we've replaced a couple over the years. I believe

2000. Quote me on the years, but maybe 2013 we bought one. We bought one uh probably 18. Uh and our oldest one right now uh I believe is the late 1990s vintage. So that explains the increase of 50,000 on that. Yeah. Uh so again, also the other thing that we like to have in there is uh replacement of vehicles. Again, we don't like to um get into the thing where we run all of our

vehicles into the ground and we're one year trying to replace all of our vehicles. So, uh with an F250 uh regular cab uh base model being almost $55,000. Um the back is a little bit uh about $200,000. Uh and then any other uh if we have major water made breaks and we need to do uh major street repairs high contract or something like that that's also where that capital would come.

Okay. So a few pages in is the water treatment plant expenses and you know the hot topic of today is was the chemicals. Um so we obviously talked about the fluoride situation but can you Thank you. Can you expand a little bit more on it? you reduced it by $50,000, but can you explain kind of the complexity of what that $900,000 in chemicals actually is? Yeah. So, that goes towards a number of different

chemicals. So, fluoride isn't the only chemical within that. Uh if you look at our chemical usage historically uh over the past you know since probably 2018 chemicals have been a significant increase uh which we've gone uh which we've gone through uh and we've dealt with one of the uh one of the things in the rate adjustment last year we talked about substantially was the chemical

increase and the cost. If you look prior fiscal years, uh we budgeted a lot less.

Uh but we either overspent that line item and that's without fluoride, without purchasing fluoride. We either overspent that line item because other chemicals uh came in over what was budgeted. Uh or um if there was anything left over, we come back free cash. But most of historically, most of the past four or five years, I mean, we've fully expended over that line item. One thing

with chemicals, it's very tough because uh you know I built my budget back in December and January. Uh and these are projections. Uh we're going out to bid right now for our chemicals for the next uh fiscal year. So from uh July 1 all the way to June 30th. So we need to project out what that cost may be for the year. you know, when I built my budget, uh, when I built my budget back

in January, submitted it in February to the board of the administration, you know, do I wish right now that I had that $50,000 back the way the tariffs and everything else are being impacted. I have no idea what that's going to do, how it's going to impact. That's what that's, you know, could be a pretty substantial hit. You take that, you know, you double it with tariffs. You know, some of our stuff may

come from Canada, may come from overseas. So, you know, we get it from local vendors and local suppliers, but where the raw materials come from uh is is to be determined and how they're impacted.

Okay. And now to sewer and this is all the last last page of um of it. So water treatment plant expenses the other professional services line item. It's my understanding that that is the cost of the individuals the contract running the sewer sewer plant. Correct. Yes. So all the professional services is the on&m contract that we have uh within for operation of our wastewater treatment plant collection system 17 pump

stations. Okay. Other purchase services.

other purchase services. Uh so that's disposal of our sludge from our wastewater treatment plant as well as rags, grit, and other trash that needs to be landfilled. That's primarily what's And where is that sludge and all that going these days? Out of state. Yeah.

Far far out of state. So, currently our sludge is going into uh containers uh onto a rail car in North Burrow and then being uh brought by rail either to Pennsylvania or Ohio. And then chemicals kind of speaks for itself. It's the same situation, but it I'm assuming the FY24 actuals, the 25 and 26 just is again the increase of cost of all these chemicals that you're using. Yes, 100%. You know, we had uh

you know, same same increases we saw in these chemicals that we saw on the water side. A lot of them s so sodium hypocchlorite we use uh between the two.

Um but yes, and then lastly for the water treatment plant capital increase of 50,000 can you can you give a explanation on that? Yeah. So again, uh, one of the thing that line item comes, uh, any vehicles that we may need to purchase, uh, throughout the year.

Again, we have some, uh, some trucks that just came out of service this past year. I believe we just took four out of service that, uh, wanted to pass inspection that were 2004 vintage, 2006 vintage. Um, so 20 plus years old. Uh, so those came out of service. So we'll be looking uh to replace those vehicles again if we have any large sewer issues that So when just looking at that line item

in general FY24 was 60,000 FY25 250,000 was there something in between that that happened or replaced or needed that you were anticipating? No, you know, again, it may have been a grant that we got for something that was uh anticipated within that line item that we budgeted for that fiscal year or something. So, it may not have come in uh and hit the capital line item expenditure. Okay. Thank you, Mr.

F. I yield. You council Samson.

So, I have some questions about um Thank you. You're welcome. uh about the your projections and the actuals Emily are actually very helpful. So my first uh question and I'm sure a lot of people have questions about some of these projections. Um so I'm just going to name a couple of that are concerning to me and helpful. You can clarify them. So um underwater administration expenses

the R&M meters was the actuals was zero and it's budgeted for 14,000. What can you explain that?

Sorry. Sorry.

stole my mic. Um, yeah. So, we were running, uh, if you remember a number of years ago, started in 2019, it was slowed down a little bit by COVID, uh, 22, we kind of completed that project.

Uh, we did a meter replacement project.

So, a lot of those uh, a lot of the cost uh, in related to either meter replacements, uh, AMR replacements or pots uh, were covered underneath that meter replacement. And we had a number of pots that were because we did separate contracts for purchase of material uh in the work. Uh so a number of those pots were included underneath uh that. So there was no expenditures from there. Uh we've come to the point

where we've run out of those.

So we're budgeting for that in the future. All right. In that same section, um, advertising, we're at 1,900 and now at 2024 and we are budgeting for 5,500.

What the advertising?

So advertising is uh any type of bids that we put out. So, our chemical bids, uh, our electrical, uh, contractor bids, uh, and, um, there's about five bids yearly that we put out, uh, for, uh, not including any capital projects that we, uh, that we may do within that year, need to advertise for, uh, those advertisement costs are, uh, in the, uh, local news, which their advertising cost has gone up dramatically.

in that same um other professional services. It's kind of vague. 46,000 was an actual for 2024. It's gone up to 82,000. What is other professional services?

Make sure I get everything covered under professional services. So,

uh so mut software support. So every year we need to change up our our actual bills. Uh and we also need to um we also need to do our leans which we need the city brings in an outside consultant to assist with building the bridge between Munice and the assesses database uh to transfer that over. uh Neptune software which is one of our software companies. Uh they provide all the the meter reading system for our uh

for all of our water meters. Uh so Neptune's the company. Uh they've gone to a cloud-based which most people everybody now is going to cloud-based system everything. They don't allow you to have it maintain your own service. Uh so that's a yearly expense within that line item. uh our asset management system uh utility cloud uh is also within that line item. Uh and then we have in there for uh an outside

consultant if we need to bring anybody in especially for permitting uh in relation to anything at our water plant.

Your um educational supplies actuals in 2024 were $61. They are now budgeted for 2,000. Yeah. What are we educating? So within uh our department so if you look at 25 and this goes back to January uh on the breakdown so far in FY25 we've spent 1,700. Uh every uh license typically within the water field uh requires reertification classes. Uh so all the drinking water operators, anybody who

has a uh treatment or distribution license needs uh typically reertification or if we have any new employees with sending for that. Okay.

So let's hop down to water maintenance and distribution salaries. Other personnel costs 2024. Your budget is 2,600. Um 2025 50,000 and we're at 54,000. So that's a massive jump in two years. So other personnel cost is an interesting line because that line we typically carry uh any uh potential increases or changes in positions through throughout the year.

It's carried in that line of momentum.

It's not carried up in the overall general. So people don't anticipate uh if there's any caller anticipations in relation to uh contracts negotiation of contracts uh that's carried in that line item. That line item if you look at it historically a lot of the times it runs into zero because it's it would be an audit transfer to make that eligible to be able to spend uh from the salary line

item and a lot of times they just don't do that trans. Not that they need to or I'm not saying that somebody's doing not doing what they're supposed to do, but shipping. What have you spent so far this in 2025 in that?

So, that's what's hard. It's we're not um we're kind of just spending it from the other lines that are there and not moving the budget. I'm going to say appropriately. We should be moving the budget when we know that we essentially increase the salary to this amount or a cola came down. we should be taking what's budgeted in that other line item and putting it up into the like base salary and wages line item and we

haven't been doing that which makes it kind of hard to break down the math on what we have used and we're going to do better about that moving forward so that it's not an issue in a question because um I mean him and I were having these same conversations and I was trying to figure out what was happening too and it it just makes it very unclear so we're going to start appropriately putting it

into the salaries as we know that we're using it so that we can answer those questions because it's a little alarming to see a jump like that and so we're asking um so there are some calculations that back it up to build the number so we you know take a cola estimate and so then some of it like you said it was um stuff for an intern at one point was

part of the former numbers for 25 so there are calculations that break it out um and sometimes it's not all used right if we I'm just going to say estimate a 10% COA and it comes in at three obviously there's going to be some money there that's not necessarily used so in that sense it's not always a perfect science. Um, but we should do better about moving it so that it's very clear

how much is being used. Um, I appreciate that. Um, so I don't I will give my colleagues time to talk, but there are we're looking at double, quadruple, four times the amount, five times out in some of these line items. I don't want to go through every single one. Just a couple that stand out for me. Um the stop boxes and water maintenance distribution expenses um was at 8,500. They're at 16,000. What have

we spent so far in that so far this year?

Sorry, gonna bring lots of papers.

Sorry, I know. I know.

and it's

54 boxes. So, so far this year we have 4,700 uh spent. We have another 8,500 incumbent. Uh so there's uh so 82% of that line item is spent is spent so far this year. Okay. And I know I'm just gonna so you can have some questions, but I do have um the the building and ground maintenance in um water treatment expenses. It is was 5,800 82. It's proposed for 35,000 up from 30,000 last year.

What are we talking about there?

35,000. So that's uh anyes around the treatment plant in relation to the buildings and grounds site.

Uh so any type of gases that are used around the plant, acetylene, propane or those types of things. Uh hydrogen flush boxes, meter calibration. So all of our meters for all of our pumps, uh you know, finish water meters, uh the uh intake meters, uh those types of things all come from that line item. Help me understand though why in 2024 was it 5,882 and then it jumps to 35,000 this

year? Again, I can't tell you what was actually charged to that line item with within that. Uh as of January, we were about 5,400.

Uh, so again, I could I can't tell you why that line item was spent so low. And again, it it some of these line items um you know, you may look at some of them are under a little bit, some of them are over a little bit. Um, so where the actual items are put u may be a function of that as well. I'll uh I'll reserve my comments for the full council meeting,

but I'll reserve to I yield. Yes, council. Thank you. Um, Paul, go back to like the the maybe the mid 90s, right?

How many heavy users did we have back then?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And compare it down to today. How many do we have today? Uh, so our biggest user is Swan. Actually, it's Blown Seafood. Blown Seafood. And as far as what do they I mean just off the top of your head, what do they generate as far as say monthly pay on a monthly basis?

That is uh I I couldn't Yeah, I couldn't tell you off the No, no, they they are a lot, but they're not as big as any of the users from the '9s. Correct. Like Duro Industries, Pioneer Finishing, those that Quake, those types of folks, right?

Um, and we've lost them. And I know that that discussion was brought up at the last meeting with Mr. Tero and we wrote a resolution myself and council Barrett passed. But there's no teeth to it if we don't go out and pursue heavy users. Um and now so referencing that back now to the uh the towns surrounding towns and how aggressively have we been um and also what what room is there for

potential to gather more um users in those particular towns surrounding us?

And is it it would it be worth it? I mean of course it would be worth it but by how much would it be worth it? how how would we be because he did and I agree with Mr. Terry on you and I've talked to you about this over the phone that uh year in and year out it's going to come back uh every year about this and these this is going to come to us

unless we get heavy users um that can offset the rates because that's exactly what uh Duro did Quaker Pioneer they actually helped the resident residents rates of the water sewer. Yeah. You know, it's very interesting. You had back in those days, you had the lodge users that were essentially subsidizing the all the residential customers within the city. Uh it's with all with the loss

of those lodge users, it's it's flipped now. The residential uh there's there's a bit more of a burden on the residential, which is, you know, one of the things. You know, you talk about usage and it's not just those lot users that went away. Think about the early 2000s with the CSOS and everything.

Everybody was trying to drive down the amount of water used within the city.

Just uh just, you know, six months ago, uh the prior federal administration put in a specific bill on uh the amount of water that a shower head could use to reduce the amount of water that a shower head. Luckily, the current administration repealed that. A lot of places around the nation don't have the water uh that we have to be able to sell. Uh, one of the things, you know, that we're always in talks with other

communities on is being able to sell more water. You know, uh, Westport, we have that going on. But beyond Westport, you have North Dartmouth. North Dartmouth, uh, they've had to close down some of the their wells. They're in need of water uh, for their town. They're currently uh, tied into New Bedford, but we're another option for them. Uh, Somerset, we have the pipe that goes underneath Somerset. when their power

plant closed, they have some excess, but Swansy needs water beyond them. Dyon needs water be beyond them. Um, you talk about Freetown. Freetown is one of our lodger water users. We go as far up as uh Sammy's Lane, I believe it is. Um but that area could expand out and with a lot of these emerging contaminants that are coming out IEP fast and other things that are affecting either public water

supplies and they're eventually going to affect even people's homes water water supplies uh municipal water connections is going to be uh the big thing on the wastewater side. You know, one of the things that we've been in talks with Somerset, them not doing a new wastewater treatment facility uh and coming and sending their wastewater to us, it gets rid of a discharge into the

bay. Good for the environment as well as it helps build our customer base uh and expand that. Tivoted wastewater, they've been expanding out their system uh with the intermedial agreement that we have in place. Freetown currently has a study in place to expend extend their sewer uh up past stop and shop. So, you know, we've been actively working with these surrounding communities to try to drive

them uh to be able to because it we're not going to build a we're not going to get another 100,000 customers in Fall River. Needs to be outside of Fall River that we need to find those 100,000 service connections. So, so how how assertive have we been aggressive?

Where are we? Where do we where are we with that? You know, that that's gonna that's going to be like our bread and butter like the Duros were, the Quakers were. That's what's going to be our bread and butter for this city. Yeah.

No, you know, again, I can tell you I just had a conversation with Somerset just last week uh with their water. I had a their consultant is doing a study on whether, you know, to rebuild their plan or tie it to us. I provided them a bunch of uh a bunch of uh information in relation to uh our system our interconnects our intermunicipal agreements and uh for their for their

study. Uh so these are ongoing talks and the hope is that we'll be able to work with them because it's going to be a better thing for the environment uh i.e.

less plants uh and stuff like that. So greenhouse gas reductions, discharges into the bays, um you know to bring everything down to a central centralized regionalized location. They do it all over the country except for the northeast. In the northeast here, everybody wants to live in their own little pipe. Uh which a isn't the way that you uh are able to grow and expand or share in the cost of a system. So you

know, I can tell you I'm actively pursuing a number of those. Uh, and it's it's a tough conversation because sometimes, you know, sometimes there's people on that side that are for it.

Sometimes there's people that uh aren't for it and the es and flows of, you know, when people come into play or when they don't. Uh, but we we're actively always trying to expand out to those other areas. All right. Thank you. You Yes, council. I watched the waterboard meetings. I haven't heard any discussion of I guess you're not discussing at the water board without um reaching out to

other communities and what they're saying. Are those private meetings that you have with their Yeah, typically they're informational meetings. Uh you know, I have a number of meetings uh with other uh directors or or uh agency leaders. um you know just in you know kind of like the police and fire doing intermunicipal assistance and stuff like that. So uh you know typically we have those but nothing uh besides the

intermunicipal agreements that are currently in anything that's uh to be in front of the water relation. One of the questions I have here was other stipens went from 139 to 234 and proposed at 34 Is there a reason for that increase?

Is it because of the contract where people get a snow stipen?

Which particular sorry water maintenance and distribution salaries?

Uh so water maintenance and distribution salaries. So we have run from the bottom. Yeah, we have a number of uh stipens that we pay within that line item. Uh we've had a couple of our staff members that are moving up uh with their stipens in relation to lenture in the drinking water which there are stipens provided for that. Uh we currently have a program set up to get our employees uh

um train them inhouse uh for CDL. So we do have a stipen in place. So uh for the next fiscal year FY26 we're hoping that we're going to be able to build those up in house. And is this for the snow stipens too included in this as stipens? So water department we do not pay any snow stipens. All snow stipens are paid for through DCM. So So these stipens are specific to upgrades

in lensures and things of that nature.

Yeah, exactly. Within within the CBA there's a number of stipens that you have a followup. Uh just one quick question. So the intermunicipal agreements that we have, are they captured with the water usage charges?

Is that where that revenue comes in?

So in the actual intermunicipal agreement is whatever year it was signed, it says that uh or by ordinance has changed with the markup. No, no, I'm I'm talking about when I'm looking at the budget under the revenue. Yeah.

Where would that revenue source be captured? Is it under that water usage charge of 13.7 million? Yes. Is it possible? And I guess this is just a request. Is is it possible to break that? Asked about it, too. I' I want to change it to that. That's how it was done in New Bedford and it made it very clear what's being charged here and what's um coming from an outside town.

We talked about it and he said we just haven't done it that way. So, we're probably going to change to that. It just obviously it's going to take time to set up the accounts to get everything coded. So, um we left it as this for budgeted, but we're hoping that by July 1, you'll start seeing it in the quarterly books. Perfect. I I just think it's beneficial to be have that broken

out so that we can see exactly how much revenue is coming in from outside communities. Makes sense. Okay. I yield.

Thank you. Thank you. Do I have Oh, I'm sorry. Uh minor revenue. I'm just curious. It's only $900, but lumber revenue. Are we selling We're selling wood? Uh yes, we do sell wood cutting permits uh within the reservation. Uh we allow residents or non-residents to get a wood cutting permit uh for I believe it's a month. They're given a specific area to go in and take it either deadwood or or other trees that are

marked by a forest to interesting conversation.

It's only $900. Oh, that's the revenue line. It's not that much to go get. I believe it's $40 per per for for a resident. I thought it was I thought it went up to 50. Didn't go up to 50. A lot of people do get wood out of there. And we should probably advertise it more because when you have trees that have fallen in the forest and they're dead, it's good to get them out of there

because god forbid they have a fire up there, it becomes a trap for firefighters. But I don't think we publicized that you get more than $900 because lots of people use wood. Yep. So anybody, you know, Mike Leos here at Forester Woods that program. Well, maybe under advertising. That may be something you use the advertising money for. Thank you. Do I have uh you all you you sir?

Um do I have a motion on the floor?

Do you want to send it to the council with no motion?

I guess I mean we we can send it we can do it a couple ways. We can send it to the full body for with send it to the full body with no recommendation. No recommendation. You can do that.

I mean, I I I' I'd be glad to make the motion to because I'm not going to support the rates increases, but Okay.

So, make motion to deny. Motion to deny the rates of the water and sewer.

Second. And then and then also pass it on to the uh full body. There's a motion to deny. There's a second. Roll call.

Discussion real quick. Oh, wait a second. Um as amended. As amended. So, I I just want to be clear. About six months ago, I said if we weren't going to collect the entire amount from Westport, I wouldn't be supporting the rates of the budget coming before us.

So, I'm standing by that. So, with that, I yield. Thank you. So, there's a motion and a second. Roll call.

No. Uh, yes. I'm sorry. Council Hart, yes. Councelor Rapo, yes. Council Samson, yes. Councelor F. Yes. Do I have a motion to adjurnn? Motion. Seconded.

All in favor? I. Thank you. And we are five minutes into the next meeting. Good job everybody. Thank you.