Committee on Ordinances & Legislation 3 18 24

over overy hey hey on ordinances and legislation March 18th 5:00 pm click call the roll yeah proposal here coun St here here pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting throughout any medium attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or UNP perceived by those

present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible has anyone signed up for citizen input item number two on the agenda the minutes of the February 27th meeting to approve second there's a motion to approve from councilor Samson a second by Council reposa all in favor I item three on the agenda proposed ordinance traffic handicap parking albian Street West 30 feet south of Downing Street Hamilton Street North 22

feet east of Ridge King Philip Street South 447 fast feet east of King Street North Underwood Street West 52 feet north of Langley Street motion for emergency Preamble second motion for an emergency Preamble councilor proposa um made a motion and I believe Council hot gave it a second is there a roll call on emergency coun counc yes yes coun yes yes motion to pass through all readings enrollment and ordination

second motion to pass through all for readings and ordination councilor reposo I made a motion and councelor Hart give it a second roll call do you want to do all in favor I I um item number four proposed ordinance um traffic miscellaneum section one regarding loading zones Locust Street South 121 ft east of June Monday through Friday 6:00 a.m. to 300 p.m. go through all of them you section

by section I was going to do section by section but I can do them all together because it won't make a difference um that's section one section two is removing handicap parking uh 18th Street East 150 ft south of merchant Bay Street East 126 ft north of fkr brell Street North 64 ft of North Court Street cash Street West 87 ft south of Pleasant Street County Street North 53 feet west of rli Street fenis

Street West 200 feet north of dwell Street fton Street West 87 feet south of suffk Street Grant Street West 178 ft north of William Street Grant Street West 190 ft north of Division Street grenell Street South 20 ft east of Arlington Street Hamley Street West 172 feet south of globe Street John Street West 202 feet south of Morgan Middle Street South 144 feet west of Broadway Nori Street South 145 ft east of fton

Street North Underwood Street West 137 36 feet south of naragansett Street and Oxford Street West 20 feet north of pelum Street pokro Street North 269 feet west of Bowen Street poo Street North 440t East of Bay Street and Snell Street North 120 ft west of Dover Street Stone Street West 35 fet north of Lafayette Street motion to pass through first reading second motion to pass through first

reading uh Council Repose I made the motion councelor Samson seconded all in favor I item number five on the agenda is to discuss the establishment of a proposed ordinance to create an affordable housing trust there are documents uh councelor Pont had come up with this and this idea however he was unable to attend the meeting this evening but he did forward an ordinance from Lynn that I believe

the attorneys have had an opportunity to review it if I could have um the city administrator come down attorney Akins attorney fet and uh Mike Dion from Community Development are there enough chairs or do we need another chair oh that's bring up good good evening gentlemen I mean some of you are known some of you aren't known so just if you could go around and just state your name

for the record Michael Dion director of Community Development Kenneth ret assistant Corporation counsel Seth Aken City administrator have you had a chance to review the ordinance from Lynn um and what counselor Pony had submitted regarding affordable housing attorney forat I have had an opportunity to review all the documents for in preparation of this meeting and your thoughts are respectfully on

counselor if you're asking what my personal opinion is in regards to the notion of the trust I don't think it's appropriate for legal deposit that at this time I found no illegality which is what I was asked to focus my attention on was the creation of the trust may occur may not uh I saw nothing in the paperwork here that would make me object to the process by which this council is

undertaking whether we get there or not with the ultimate and that's basically what I wanted to know the legalities of it what your feelings were on that it's certainly it's uh there are a number of communities in the Comm Massachusetts that have undertaken this uh there's also a number that have not but uh I saw nothing in objectionable in regards to the documents I was asked to review thank

you Mr Dion could you give us a little bit of a rundown on affordable housing in the city of for River and what you in your office or any other offices have done that you're aware of well in uh Community Development uh we are tasked with um uh providing affordable housing and also prevention of uh uh preservation of affordable housing um in the city of Fall River to the benefit of

low and moderate income people um we do uh acquisition new construction we have housing opportunities with our firsttime home buyer program we also do preservation of affordable housing and we do uh a myriad of uh homeless prevention and Rapid rehousing uh Services through Community Development agency and through the community um CSS uh we have four chodos which are community housing development

organizations which are nonprofit agencies throughout the city um the four of them are called pyan uh people improving communities and neighborhoods uh cherub Community Housing Resource Board uh the preservation Society and also carba Community Action for better housing that's basically um what we provide in uh Community Development agency I mean we go out we purchase houses through our for chos um we rehab

those houses and we usually keep them on on um and rent those uh properties out to uh firsttime uh we'll we'll sell them to first-time home buyers also but we'll also rent those properties out to uh as affordable housing councilor washing uh Samson thank you I I have a couple of questions and concerns with this and maybe you can help uh CL clarify so when we talk about affordable housing um with

the documentation that was provided to us that I'm looking at and the way that the trust lays out there's nothing in here that states that it would be affordable housing for Fall River residents um just the other day there was um it was all over the news there was a stabbing on trip Street in Fall River um an organization in Boston they said we're sending people down because Fall River has um more affordable

housing than other places and so an absentee landlord has this house and this organization was literally just dropping off people for the affordable housing so you know if we create more affordable housing here in the community and it wasn't it wasn't that it was so affordable it was just cheaper than what Boston was having um nothing in here states that if we create this trust this

trust would be for Fall River residents we could be having this trust that would open up for other plac places because we can't I don't know legally could you limit it to Fall River residents for um but the way that this lays out in these sections 42 of this does not say that it's for Fall River residence so are we going to have more of a problem with for you know affordable housing and people

coming in from outside of Fall River when we're really trying to help Fall River residents as we just seen this is a problem and so that's kind of what scares me about this um so I guess that's my first question am I correct that I'm not seeing anything in here that governs that this would just be to help Fall River residents I didn't see that um most of our um um is open to

residents of Massachusetts our our uh Housing Authority wait list is um for uh all of the cities in Massachusetts um what I would see and and it's up to this board to discuss this is um is do you do this by a lottery process and also a lottery process does not stop uh anybody from from applying to that lottery so yes you could get uh people from all over Massachusetts even outside of

Massachusetts so even so in regards to this for of a trust this would again just open it up to everybody in Massachusetts your with your four chos that you have it's it is already affordable housing that you're working on that's opened up to anybody in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts correct correct it's almost like a duplicate of efforts the way I'm reading this and I'm not an expert on this and that's why I

lean on your expertise but do we need another trust my concern is to open up for more outside residents to come into Fall River and um for affordable housing and what scares me is this is that we're going to have more absentee landlords trying to get money out of this trust that we're going to put in that creates a problem I mean that's a terrible thing that happened over on trip street that

an absentee landlord and and literally just bust people in from Boston because the rents are cheaper and they pay the rent up to a year and no one's watching it so I'm concerned that we're going to just open it up there who's going to monitor it who so if we already have um you know a department that's been doing this for many years are we duplicating efforts and I understand the need for um

housing but I think when the community is talking about uh affordable housing they're looking at helping out the residents in for of that had these increased rents and how can we make that better but it doesn't look like by this that we can make it better for Fall River residents we're just going to add more housing and it could be for anybody and so I I think maybe we need to look at is

there a way to reduce rent for the already Fall River people um so I I just maybe I'll have more questions as as my colleagues asked but it this so as I'm correct this is not just for Fall River residents this is for anybody correct and you are already doing this in the community development out of your office yes okay with that I yield thank you councilor reposa sorry steal this um so I somewhat

respectfully disagree with my colleague um simply the fact that I think we all agree that there's not enough housing period around there's enough people that can't get a place to live but I guess my thing with this is that it accesses other funding that you're office necessarily would not have access to funding too so donations you know like 42154 talks about private P Public Partnerships grants other revenue

streams and donations that necessarily wouldn't apply to you because you have a whole different set of funding correct correct but if somebody want if somebody would like to give us donations I'd be more than happy to to take it on sure we need a microphone yeah um so I I mean I think my my position here it's it's a good idea and I think what council Sams is getting at is obviously

much down the road but in the beginning of it the idea of promoting the development preservation and accessibility of affordable housing for low and moderate income individuals is kind of the key attention to this like we're trying to again promote more housing that we don't already have and there's not enough as it is so I I mean I to me my personal opinion is just one more tool and toolbox to try to get more

people off the streets and living in a place to be safe versus not so I think that's kind of my position on the whole thing I'll yield Mr Deion you want to respond to that you I look I thought you wanted to say something if not that no I mean I mean I I agreed to the point of um you know there there would be more money coming into the Community Development

agency but that money is there right now um concerning you know uh this really came about from a CPA type of uh um platform you know if you look at most of the uh affordable housing trust funds most of them are either funded through um uh Opa funding uh they're they're through um inclusionary zoning and through a listing of marri of of things you just said um you know this this uh

Council this uh committee would have to decide that um you know you bring up a good point about duplication of services I mean um Community Development is already providing the creation and preservation of affordable housing um the Board of Trustees is supposed to operate in three ways they're supposed to act as a funding entity that solicits project ideas which is exactly what CDA

does active initiator of projects or programs and we we do that and the third thing is kind of a catchall is both we do both of those um you know one of the things you need to ask yourself is who's going to manage this trust um uh are you m well no it's not going to be me um but you know you look at Boston and their Department of neighborhood development does it uh WIA their Economic

Development agency does it Lynn their planning department and quinsey CDA does it um you know so you got to ask yourself at that point Who's going to run that type of thing the next thing is how you going to get a dedicated Revenue Source you need you need you know it costs about $175,000 per unit to do a housing project in the city that's not counting the cost of purchasing and we all know

that it's about $500 $600,000 to purchase so if you would have put $2 million away in this fund and you would to do $175 in per project you're talking about 11 units so I I want to let everybody know at on this board on this committee I'm not against it I'm not believe me um I just want to let everybody know that this isn't the great white savior of of of affordable housing problems in the

city of Fall River it it's one more thing in the toolbox but the question is is and I don't mean to put the city administrator on the spot but how are you going to fund this type of thing you know um do you bring in inclusionary zoning which has a negative impact against developers developers will not want to come into into the city if you do inclusionary zoning you know um uh so

there's a lot really really lot to think about um you know and and you know I I know I work every day with it concerning affordable housing I know that there are people out there who are homeless I know about the people that have been negative with with uh um with what's gone on in the past couple weeks um but she is right I mean there are people that are that are being busted down from Boston

putting in being put into our uh neighborhoods and they're not being checked on they're not having case management and and people come down and uh you know that's just wrong how they're doing that um you know we're about 28% right now of affordable housing in the city of Fall River you know at what point in time do we say you know enough is enough you know I I think we really really need to somewhat down

the road to think of a a housing policy I mean how much is how much market rate housing can the city afford how much affordable housing can the city have those are questions you know we're we're following the 10% rule right now so every time we do a project uh we're doing a project on Pleasant Street we have 13 units we're putting in around six units of of U um affordable housing

uh to that development we did the 64 dery Street we put 22% of low income housing in that project and in other projects we've put in 10% we try to follow the 10% rule all the time that's what we've done so far thank you Mr Dion Council hot I think you might have just answered my question I was going to ask you about when you said about buying and renting um I guess maybe compare it to

how how how much do you rent compared to how much do people actually buy well out of the 30 I think the city has about 34,000 units out of the 34,000 units 25,000 a little less than that is rental units so right now I can tell you and I'm ashamed of this right now our first-time home buyer program is zero we have not had any because of the price of

the housing right exactly um right now a person right now a person earning 80% of the area medium income cannot afford to B buy a single family home we had that before probably if you go back maybe three or four years ago we had people that were 50% 60% of the area median income where we could sell them a house they were right on the uh the cusp um but 80% people could afford them not any

longer so those renting people that renting is that um affordable there are some people that there know you go by the 10% rule so there are still affordable units in the city there's a lot of them right um a lot of our homeless just recently are people who are on fixed incomes and their rents have gone up I mean I haven't seen the rents gone up like this ever where they've gone from you know a

person was affording $800 a month and that rent went up to $1,500 a month some $1,800 yeah so and if a person has a fixed income of $1,000 a month they can't afford that increase so that's where you're seeing a little bit of the homelessness problem um um going forward you know that we're we're dealing with but there is still I mean we did a uh um a study of the 500 units that we have

there's a considerable amount and I want to say most of them are um still around 7800 $900 right so that's people are moving you're you're so you're actually doing what um again I'm not against this but I and I don't want to see him as miss the negative or I'm saving my own uh you know I'm saving Community Development but um uh it is basically what we do you know are you thanks M okay councelor

Samson so I just wanna I just want to clarify something that you said because I think that when we talk about affordable housing it rattles people's cage and it's a it's a trick word for people and so I know that we have an issue but again you said something that I think people need to know because it's been said a couple of times that this is a different Source we can get donations

you on the record you could get donations if someone wants to donate $2 million to your department you would be more than happy to take it I do get donations now you get I do get donations now they're not anywhere close up $2 million but but you're open to it hey I'll I'll take any so the you me 500 units you have I want to say there's about 500

units in the city that have a what we call um an affordable housing restriction and that's what we do we give low interest interest loans 1% loans and in turn what people do is give us a restriction on their property they can only rent to a certain income level and then it can only charge a certain income level so that's important to know because we have a department in the city

that's doing this 500 units and we're talking about establishing a trust that could maybe do 11 units maybe 22 if we say the figures are too high but I think what for me the fractured of different programs the fractur of different committees sometimes uh too many hands in the pot and so if one would want to bolster or help or have ideas for um the Community Development Office I I think for me that sits a

little bit better or have a longer conversation about where this is going I think to rush in and establish a trust and not really sit down and look we have five this is the first time I'm hearing that you had 500 units and we're looking at establishing something new um when everything that's being done actually can be done um under you and I think we're at such a critical point in the

city of Fall River with things that are going on um that we really need to take a look at what we have what we're doing can we do it better with the having a a new committee that comes up with new ideas um that we could put a pot of money here and and maybe we can't because actually we're looking about establishing a committee that we don't have any money but if we have a you know

could we bolster what we're doing and we're doing well so th those are my points uh with that I yield anybody else uh the question that I have is um does Mr fiola's office do something as well with he does market rate housing he he he um um provides a service he's kind of a consultant he provides a service to developers throughout the city for a certain amount of money and he develops market rate

housing some of that market rate housing is also we we match sometimes doing some affordable with it it's some affordable with that um I think Council Samson asked a question about would these units be and is there a way legally to say for River residents get a preference or just like sometimes we have situations where they may give Veterans Preference I is that something legal to do uh attorney

fet to your knowledge or is that something that we probably wouldn't be able to do that was not an issue that was researched in preparation of this meeting be a complete guess on my part which be inappropriate to to together well that's good thing to I'm just wondering councelor Samson could you maybe explain a little bit for people that are listening and maybe and for myself as well the difference between

market rate housing lowincome housing and affordable housing because I think it gets mixed up where you know what's market rate what's low income what's affordable we have we have 28% of well affordable housing I don't so could you just give a and if you're not prepared I'm sorry but you know is there all I can tell you is what the Community Development does um we provide housing to 80% of the area median

income that is the that's the the key okay it can go as low as 0 to 30% of area Medan income so if you look at the sliding chart of what what it is um you'll see like a family of say one okay that Pro that 0 to 30 might be $117,000 and that Zer that 80% % might be $50,000 so it all depends it's all on a sliding scale market rate is actually

what market rate is what what a person will pay for it I mean all housing is market rate housing from what I can tell I mean some people will pay 800 some people will pay 20 uh 2,000 um uh um you know I've heard a lot of different scenarios out there of Workforce housing and affordable housing I would say in this community affordable housing is 60 to 80 to the 30% around at the 50 I'm

sorry 50 to 80% of of uh of area median income well I believe councilor Samson talked about an issue that had happened um with affordable housing people from Boston buying house and I believe that their rent was something like $2,400 a month yeah that doesn't sound too affordable to that's Che in the you're you're looking probably at a boarding house type of room and house type of issue where you know it's cheap down

here I mean Fall River even though it's gone up and and it's and it's quite considerable um we are one of the cheapest I think areas of Massachusetts and I think with a situation like that you have these organizations out of Boston paying for these units and then and and putting people in them but they're paying for them down here in Fall River because it's cheaper than quiny or Brockton so

um and also I think is it fair to say that rent there's a number of factors that rent went up but the houses the price of houses a three tenament you know when people owned it they were they didn't have a mortgage on it they could charge cheaper rent and then in the past four or five years they sold their three tenement for six s 800,000 and and you got to charge you know $1,500 to cover

the rent and so people think it's astronomical but just to cover the basics of owning that house it's gone through the roof yeah I think you've hit it right on the button um some of those houses have sold for $600,000 um you know a new landlord or or an outside investor comes in they're looking it's a business they're looking to get as much out of that property as they can so they raised the rents and a

person who was paying $800 $900 is now looking at a $15 to $1,800 bill yeah I mean and that's just to cover your mortgage and your fees a lot of the time and so um you know for me I think it's looking at that Avenue of how do we support our our local landlords that are not you know absentee landlords or landlords that live out of out of the city um I'll I'll yield to my colleagues

I think some of the problems that I'm hearing from some landlords that I know that do have empty units they're feeling that you know we rent the units and the then we have to pay to evict people and all of that because you know Corey checks uh uh credit checks aren't being done and I think that that would be something that would help some of the landlords that have rents that are 8 n

or even you know 900 950 would help them where they would rent them but I know a couple that will not rent they would rather have the apartments empty I know one on Irving Street I know one down the North End and you know they say after you have to chase for for the your rent and there's problems because they don't you know do that and I suggested that they contact Realtors who pay I think

you pay a month's rent or something to a realtor who will do that background work for you because that would open up some apartments as well but they don't want to take the chance on people that aren't from around here I mean years ago even in the Housing Authority you would call a landlord and say is this tenant a good tenant and the landlord would be honest with you now a landlord wants to get rid

of that person so they say yeah they're great tenant and they're not but it's landlords that are you know calling like from out of town they don't care before it was just the landlords in for River so if the Housing Authority knew you lied to them about a tenant they weren't going to take your word on the next one um you know so that was a a problem U but I agree with Council Samson if the

money's going up prices are selling homes are selling for a lot more money people have to pay their mortgage that's why we could never do a rent control for that very issue um attorney aen do you have anything U to add in on this or where we would get the money for to do a program like this if it would be beneficial um from the administration's point of view from the administration's

point of view the conversations have really been where would the money come from um so arpa is really not an option at this point uh I mean there's little drips and drabs I know in the county there might be 160 or so thousand dollar left um in terms of you know money from uh local receipts and and budget funds um I mean we're grappling with some honest to goodness issues coming up in the next couple years

uh trying to figure out how we pay for for those things that we we have to pay for that are important I mean diamond is an essential um it's an essential project uh that's going to serve the community and our kids uh in a way that U we just need to step up and do it um so you know this obviously is is important it's uh it's certainly well

meant uh we just don't know how we would pay for it um really the only option uh that I think is is out there is you know is is coming up with new fees and um you know taxes and other things and and no one wants to do that because then it becomes a hardship for developers who are trying to you know to do things sometimes even on a Sho string as it is

so um there is no easy solution to this and that's really the conclusion that we've come to as we've continued to talk about it okay I mean I I do understand what you're saying and I think with all uh you know market rate housing and all this housing and people coming in we just built a high school that is at Ma maximum capacity we're looking for you know prek classes for kids so when

people are moving in you've got to look at all the other services that need to be expanded as well your police your fire your School departments um and everything um so I mean I was just concerned people moving in and looking at affordable as you know $2,400 rent didn't sound very affordable to me but is there um a motion on the floor or Council reposal make a motion to pass through first

reading what we just discussed okay there a second on that there is no second another motion I make a motion leave to withdraw I don't think that we have enough information here I I just don't think that we have that information here I just think it's so premature is there a second yeah I'll second it there is a motion on the floor for leave to withdraw there was a motion made by Council Samson and a second

can I comment well not really because there's a motion in a second on the floor we're going to take a vote by go ahead go ahead well I was gon to say if that if the case is we don't have enough information can we table it instead do more research on it or H well she already did a motion but if you want to make a motion to table and you get a

second motion to table takes precedence over I'll second that motion there was a motion to table and councilor Samson May gave it a second roll call please yes yes yes no the next item on the agenda thank you so much Corporation Council you're here with me I'm here with you okay um the next resolution is to convene with Corporation Council represent representatives of the local taxi

companies and interested parties to discuss ways to expand accessibility of Transportation by amending the current taxi license ordinance and item number seven is a discussion with taxi cab rates and possible cap the number of medallions I believe they kind of intertwine would would it be the pleasure of the council to take both items six and seven together motion to lift item seven from the table

com right he has to lift for motion to combine six and seven okay but you have a motion to lift would take president so there's a motion to lift there's a second all in favor so motion to lift item seven and then motion to take six and seven together motion to take six and seven together we have a second all in favor I I there are some members here

from uh the taxi cab I believe of M Mr Yume Fred yum is here and Faith who are from Town Taxi if you'd like to come

up

Corporation Council would you like to go first on what you've researched in this certainly will um to the council and taxi cab companies what I did was uh engage in research was followed up on Corporation Council rumsey's research from a couple years ago which is when I understand this issue or similar issues regarding tax cab companies were uh posed to the board and again this is this is not

personal opinion this is a uh research of uh not just in the conal of Massachusetts but nationally uh on the issue of medallions and otherwise um the first uh resolution is six which is really about Transportation uh for Americans with Disabilities and um let me just say um LifeWise experience my my only brother was a quadriplegic for 47 years until he passed away uh so I do have some experience in regards to uh

Transportation issues confronting those who can't drive themselves and are completely dependent even partially dependent when I read this ordinance my curiosity would be how do you possibly impose on these Transportation companies the potential liability issues of drivers getting persons with disabilities in and out are we it's not in here but are we requiring the companies to purchase vehicles that can

make those disabled uh accessible and who is going to transfer in and out because if we're talking about taxi cabs that are not normally uh fitted for the transportation of disabled people then you have to get them fitted and and unless these folks constantly have persons to to assist them we're putting it on the taxi cab drivers themselves so I'm very very concerned about the liability issues that uh six uh brings

about it I think it's a I think it's a who can argue with the idea that we need to get cabs uh uh uh better able to uh bring disabled people around town I also think that there are a number of services in place um my brother didn't live in m it so I can't talk about what's available here in Fall River and I'm simply not uh cognizant enough of

what is available but there are to my understanding uh services available to the disabled um so in regards to six um my concern as a lawyer would be how could you possibly impose that liability on the taxi cab companies and are they even uh amendable um are we forcing them or are they uh agreeing to expand a fleet necessary to comply with what's being asked perhaps I should give you a

little bit of History none of my colleagues were here in 2006 but I was um I'm older um but many years ago back in 20056 I received a call from Mr Road who is in a wheelchair and Mr robelot very vocal with city government and attends many Council meetings um very involved in the community and he told me that he felt that people with disabilities had no voice in the

city and he was right so at that time uh with his assistance and uh mayor Lambert was mayor at the time we put together a commission for disability and that commission was then formed in 2006 Jim Smith was the city administrator at the time and there was a meeting and it was decided that they would put out an RFP to assist a taxi cap company in purchasing uh a handicap accessible

vehicle uh the RFP did go out and at that time I believe Mr yums from Town Taxi was the only one who had put in for it the city said that they would give up to $10,000 for the purchase of said vehicle they would have to buy the vehicle first show the receipt to the city and the city would give a $10,000 uh contribution to that vehic vehicle so Mr yum went out bought a

vehicle I think at the time he paid maybe 18,000 for the vehicle but then you had mayor Lambert leaving the president of the council at the time Bill witty was acting mayor for a little bit and then we had a new mayor in in uh representative or Bob uh Mayor Bob career somewhere in that k fuffle Mr Yume never got the $10,000 so the city basically reaged on the deal

um Mr Yume is here and in conversations that I've had with him there wasn't enough response from people to use it the insurance on a vehicle was very expensive so he ended up not being able to keep that vehicle on the road and it ended up going to auction and was like $3,000 that he got for it so you know it was bad now now today I find that there

are many people in the city not only in wheelchairs but people who are in those motorized scooters and they may want to go to the mall or they may want to go to you know up to South Coast um Market Basket what have you but they're going to use that scooter once they get there so there needs to be a mechanism to transport that um and the other thing was we'll talk about after was the

medallions that the city then said anybody can get a medallion so they have nothing uh with a medallion I believe they have 12 cars on the road but because of violence in the city um a number of taxi cab drivers have been stabbed I think three I know of one woman in her late 50s early 60s had been raped so she didn't want to drive anymore so now they're closing at 11

o' and they're also faced with the Uber and lyt people coming in so people will call the cab company download you know text for an Uber text for a lift and then whoever gets there first kind of gets that ride um so there's a lot of you know a lot of disparities on what taxi cabs used to be and what they are now um so that's kind of the clux of

where it came to be um and I know that if somebody had a wheelchair that you know you broke your foot or something and you had a wheelchair to get but you could get up and you know transport yourself into the backseat of a car then the cab driver could fold that wheelchair and put it in the trunk but many of their drivers are older people who can't do that and you bring up a

really good question about what is the liability um and I think that was something too where the taxi cap companies wanted to charge an extra $25 if it was um you know which isn't fair and it's not legal it's very discriminatory against an individual with a handicap so I'm sharing that so that my colleagues all know as well I thought Mr Road would be here um well you came in behind

me um why don't you come down Danny if you I'm sure he'll have um some information to share and we're trying to look at what can we do in the city to make sure that people with a disability have the same freedoms as other people and when the city has activities in the summertime at night you know we don't want somebody to have to like Danny I have yelled at him

a few times when I've seen him in the middle of the road um because I don't I know that it's not safe um but he wants to be able to to attend different activities as do many other people in the city and they can't because of their scooter or their wheelchair and certainly Danny's wheelchair was like my great nephews where you can't really lift that up and put it in the trunk of

a car so that's kind of what we're looking at uh as a committee here this is all the history that happened before it happened it's over here what can we do now moving forward to make sure that everybody in the city has the same ability to get from one place to another so if that helps does anybody have any questions do you want to hear from Danny first you got it on

Danny members members of the ordinance committee CH Pereira uh you've pretty much given a good summary of past history uh I I do know that in the past several years Mr y's company had on at least several occasions that I'm aware of had an accessible vehicle I I know that he transported one individual from bordon East not him directly but his company one individual from bordon East up to the airport uh another

uh went to a karaoke event he was running it in my opinion and he's here and I'm happy to listen to him let me say I have nothing personal against Mr you uh I feel bad that the city reneged on the deal but it was nothing that the disability commission could have uh changed we had no funding of our own uh to put forth that money we went forth on

the proposal based on the advice of the city administrator but uh first of all if you were ever going to have a van you you'd have to open it up whereby nondisabled people and disabled people could ride in the same vehicle because if you're waiting to just have individuals with disabilities call in you're never going to have enough uh to make it worthwhile it it's just not going to happen so I I hope we

can find some way to make it work because right now and it's nobody's fault but the bottom line is the only group of people that can't access a taxi in the city of for River are people that are confined to wheelchairs it's not right it's wrong and this Committee in my opinion as the issuing authority of the taxi licenses has to resolve the issue in some fashion so I'm happy to

listen to All parties I'm happy to help in any way I can and I'll answer any questions thank you thank you Denny also on the phone who called in uh we called him earlier is Dennis pelli hi Dennis hi um Madam chair Dennis is the chair chman of the commission on disability and also joining us is Eric Russo who is from Serta um so hopefully councelor Samson so I have um some thoughts I I'm

glad that we took six and seven together because I think that they're directly related to the problem that we have here so the um if I say anything out of line just slap me tell me and correct me okay but I think the taxi cab companies have been handcuffed um by the Antiquated Medallion system that's no problem number one so you know you guys have to get these medallions you can only have

so many numbers of cars and um but Uber and lift come in and they're flooding the streets see I mean you showed me earlier lift's got so many cars out here Uber's got so many cars and you guys um they're not paying the same fees or anything like that so I think that's a problem I think we have that's a a number one problem the other problem that we have is that Mr robard is

absolutely right um a handicap person cannot get a um a cab now you would say oh well there are other services starta what time to start a run till the bus about till 9:30 so 9:30 at night so uh we start about 6 6:00 in the morning so 9:30 at night um you run till and then there's another group I Pari and I don't know if I'm saying that right but you

have to call in advance and schedule um so um if a person in a wheelchair and we have very young people in wheelchairs um you know youth all the way up to elderly they wanted to go out for an evening they wanted to go on a date they could theyd have they have a curfew they could they had to be in by 9:30 because your buses are done so they couldn't take

their date out because they got to get back on that bus right not much of a date right where you going with that so I mean it is he it is correct that there is definitely a problem that a person in a wheelchair should be able to go out to a bar go out to a restaurant go out to the movies just like anybody else and it's not fair but on the other side of

that is it fair to say that these cab companies have to go ahead purchase a vehicle hire someone train that technician to be certified and there lies the problem so I think that issue that we need to discuss because it is the will and it's a good will it is the will of the disability Commission because I talked to Mr robard and Mr brelli today and it is the will of them

to use the ordinance that was established in uh it was an old ordinance from 99 you know reconfigured in 2014 2015 that the taxi capab companies operate um and have a handicap vehicle and I agree if this was to happen they should be able to use that vehicle to pick anybody up but do we make that this already um these companies that already are handcuffed on what they can do make them pay

for a vehicle and so I think that it is our job to look at in the ordinance committee what can we do and how do we solve that problem um how do we get a vehicle to you guys are there benefits um Can there taxes what can we do if a cab company um gets a van how do we get your van do we put it on you the onus on

you to you have to do it so I think there is a problem in both areas I don't know how to solve it but I definitely see it is not fair that a a person in a wheelchair cannot go out just like I could it's terrible and it's not fair that the cab company has to purchase this when they when Uber andyt don't do anything I was I was talking to Mr Robot

I'm like let me see if I cannot get a wheelchair no I can I can order an Uber for with a pet but I can't order an Uber with a wheelchair it's terrible so I mean how and how is there a way that we could actually bolster the cab companies in the city of f River and carve out this niche market that's not being met to help you guys and and how does that

look but I'm going to yield because I I want to ask you you've had experiences with um transporting people and um so I'm going to let you speak I did a a job Thanksgiving I came we had a handicap van okay Dennis I'll be right with you and go ahead Fred and then Mr Peli would like to say something I went with the the driver because the driver was

trained how to strap a b so I said okay he says I put the strap over the guy's lap and I says that gets too tight let me know he started screaming I said what's the matter he says it's so tired you're hurting me you're hurting me I said just L it across your L that kind of poisoned me a little bit he didn't have an electric wheelchair okay electric wheelchair you got to get some

heavy duty is that there you you run a big white Vans right that's correct so for many you're not going to do it with a Toyota uh so there's there are a lot of options out there in terms of uh vehicles um but I know that Mr Peli was G speak next so I I want to interrupt hold hold on a second Mr R uh Mr Peli you wanted to add something yeah

um first of all let let's um my allergies are very bad today but I'm going to do my best let's start with the premise that the Americans with Disabilities Act is no younger than 33 years old it was passed in 1990 so we had far we had much much more time in this 33 years to come up with ways that taxi cab companies which are required under title three of the Ada to provide taxi

services they're not required to go out and buy the vehicles but if they have them they're required not to discriminate wheelchairs some some wheelchairs can be stowed just the way taxi cab companies routinely sto luggage each and every day so there's no question here I don't know what the corporation council's background is on the Americans with Disabilities Act I've had a lot of

practice in in as an ADA coordinator on a college campus and I chaed a local disability commission before coming back to Fall River but but it's not a question it's not a question of whether you can or you can't you can and other municipalities do have um uh accessibility standards in their city ordinances the city of Boston Massachusetts I believe you have some of the material in your packets and the

City of Cambridge Massachusetts all have requirements and regulations in your taxi cab U service providers that require compliance with the Ada so it's not a question of whether you can you can't it's a question of you have to you can't discriminate against people with disabilities in providing your services and moreover you can't discriminate against a class of individuals with

disabilities namely wheelchair users in providing such services so we can take that off the table working with taxi companies of course we're willing to do that sensitivity training training there are options out there we work with Fall River taxi after the 2016 June 7th meeting when this issue was tabled we worked with uh Fall River taxi and we worked with SRTA and we had a structure I don't know what happened

to it where SRTA would provide the training so there are Partnerships Cape Cod has a partnership where training is provided so that their taxi companies can provide and comply with the American to Disabilities Act so there are resources out there there are ways to do this the commission is willing to do it I think that the taxi company Town Taxi already has accessible Vehicles they do

provide services my understanding to People Incorporated in some other places so so the vehicles are there so I I guess the issue is how do we make this work this 33y old REO under the Ada how do we make this work together how do we perform and provide uh and and have collaborative Partnerships so that uh Town Taxi can comply with the Ada like like other municipalities in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts there are

plenty of resources out there um I was told by uh by uh the Boston Commission on ability that the that the massach that the MBTA has some funds that can help uh local taxi companies do this so there are resources out there how can we make this work how can we make that's our goal and that's our goal Mr belli uh to see what we can do this resolution

had been filed I mean I filed one back in 2006 thought we had gotten a resolved then there was another one in 2022 and I'm bringing that up and we're in 2024 but but I don't want to hear so we need to I don't want to hear figure out why this can't be done I want to hear about how Town Taxi can comply with title three of the Ada and have accessible taxi services for wheelchair

users that's that's the issue as far as I'm concerned you're absolutely right and just for you to know we also invited for River taxi to be here um because they have there's two taxi companies in the city um and also we have with us um uh Mr Russo from Serta Mr Russo would you be able to add what were you willing to provide before what does Serta provide um to the community with re with

regards to uh people with with disabilities sure um can you speak into the microphone I'm sorry get a little closer uh Mr Sy and Mr robard approached me almost 10 years ago uh to talk about this and see if there if we had any capacity to be able to assist uh and so working with uh I think it was um Fall River taxi uh Mr rard remember better

than me um Adam CH may I for a second uh uh thank you uh Mr so we we were nanograms away from an agreement with with for River taxi and then uh the business was sold from Isabel isherwood he was the original owner and uh the gentleman we worked with was Anthony rouso he was one of three owners at the time that originally bought the company from Mr isard we were nanograms away from an agreement outside

the capacity of this committee uh Mr Russo bought a vehicle using his own funds I sat and it we were just about he was about he applied for a medallion told us The Medallion was going to be used to run the service and then he fell off the planet thank you for that but that that's kind of what's happened along the way it's like we get this close and then

it falls apart but we going to working with them we were going to provide any training they needed in terms of um utilizing Mobility enhanced vehicles uh whether it be loading and tying down passengers uh whether it be sensitivity training in the area um we were also willing to either provide or um help identify areas where uh accessible adaptive equipment on vehicles could be serviced uh a lift such as Mr Hume was

referring to is a hydraulic lift and it's not unusual but it is a different piece of equipment that most four dealerships wouldn't be able to necessarily work on um so that was that was the basis of where we were able to fill in uh some of the missing gaps and I think that one of the issues was that um they were doing a good job of recognizing the the complete picture of the business opportunity that

may be available um in Massachusetts we have Human Service Transportation which uh is um brokered by two regional transit authorities Monett Regional Transit Authority and the greater adab barl tunon Regional Transit Authority um and what they were hoping to do was to have enough Vehicles where they could contract with one of those two entities to provide the HST work in this region and if they had enough accessible

Vehicles then they would be able to do that and have uh some more fixed income streams for for their business um like Mr Rob mentioned uh Mr Russo the Italian version uh he fell off the face of the Earth as far as we could tell uh but we we had drawn up a contract and we were ready to sign okay can I ask Mr yums you had um something that you wanted to add when Mr

robala was speaking I want I want to ask your handicap do you have to make an appointment to get it for our service yes our service is day before you must book your at least by the okay okay now with that now do you train for school bus also we do not okay because that there to drive a cab with a pupil plate on it how much what's the training now 500 a person 250 250 a

person for first for the first training year every year okay the school bus that's another thing that's nothing to do with this but you know just wanted to let you know that every time we turn around it's you know we're jumping through hoops I took I I took the gentleman I didn't I put you in the in the in the uh van when I bought it I took it right down the city hall cab

from from this uh to Downtown City Hall I put you up and I asked you how you like it you said it was fine you are absolutely correct Mr human every time I give background and history I give the we story I say and I spoke to two Council was on this committee today and I said to each one of them that you bought the van with anticipation of being repaid two members of the

commission including myself sat in that van and it was perfectly fine that's correct now how many times did you did you call not to put you in a piccolo or anything how many calls did I get from it I waited 3 months I have no idea how many calls you got because I never knew the van was in service I had people tell me I have it in Services take it down here sir I had

people tell me that you had other vans in service over the years with with a wheelchair with and I know of several people that you transported to different places they had to make reservations now with all due respect yes sir with all due respect sir if you have to make a reservation that's not a tax that's a demand response service that's what power Transit is it's not taxi service thank you uh Mr Russo Sero will

go up until 9:30 yes but it's with calling and scheduling the day before at least by the day before you have to call and schedule the day before what other services like that are available I think you mentioned a couple of other places in the city I'm not aware of services that ours um so SE does is served by Gap tra and so it's a different Transit Authority but they provide similar

service to us um what GATRA also does is they provide the Human Service transportation that for anybody that has a p one in our region okay slightly different attorney for debt is there anywhere in the state law that says taxi caps must provide or no no it was brought up that possibly Americans of Disability Act does uh I have not seen that um I know Mr Hume when he heard the comments uh

right mentioned he they only have one B so I don't know that there's a wealth of resources that uh respectfully was suggested to exist but uh currently I have not found any legal obligation imposed by the state of Massachusetts by law that requires taxi cab companies and their obtaining of medallions uh to devote a certain percentage or any whatsoever towards the maintaining of uh handicap accessible

bands and Mr Hume who runs a service would probably be able to comment off of that whether they're aware they deal with the laws far more often than I do but I I didn't find anything in my research mam you haven't found that if there was enough business here I would do it I just started this here 1969 I'm still learning but if you can tell me how to catch another fly I'm with you can councilor

Samson well I I I think that there's some I think there's some Headway right there and I think that part of the problem that you may have entered into the past was because you didn't use that vehicle unless a person with a disability call people won't get in one we got now correct so I'll take it anytime you want to come pick me up I'll take ITW take I can't get you what there's no

lift in it then it's not an accessible vehicle so under the terms that I'm talking about now I I apologize Council that's okay so I'm thinking that I'm take that microphone I we definitely need to we need to think about this because it it's a service that needs to happen it's not fair but where do where do um Mr pelli you mentioned that there were some funds possibly that these cab companies could get to purchase a

vehicle or some funds did you mention that yeah yeah I it was brought to my attention by the Boston Commission on disability that there may be some funds out there um and I'm willing to pursue that further so I yeah Rhode Island Taxi economy cab and Yellow Cab in Providence Rhode Island I I do I deal with all these people down to cap Pete and all these people and what they did was I believe they paid

$2,000 a car for a brand new van they got a brand new handicap van and they had to keep it on the road I believe it was three years or 100,000 miles then they get the title that's what they did so they may be something like that available government government government so I I I'm glad to hear that uh you're not opposed to this there are ways that we can look at this I think that there's

just some information I think we need to keep the discussion going I absolutely do um I don't know I'll yield to my colleagues if they want to say anything but I definitely think that um this is something that needs to happen but we need to be very precise and concise about it so it doesn't affect or we don't want to um bankrupt the it's all about the cost the the C it's all about

the cost so I think that but we're hearing things that may be able to help and also it may be able to bolster because the Lyft and Uber is not doing it so if we could bolster uh local business that's a win-win all the way around so I don't know if my colleagues um have want to add anything but I'd make a motion to table to get until we get some more information do you yield

or i y I think I think councelor reposa wanted to oh I'm sorry Mr Peli go ahead yeah I I just want to bring to everybody's attention that the MBTA par Transit program called the ride they do make use of uber and Lyft as part of their vendors to provide parent transit services um the MBT in in their MBTA District the program because I was at I was a ride user for many years before

I came back to Fall River um so they are us they weren't using Uber and lift at the time but as of I came back in 2009 so around 2010 2011 they began using Uber and lift as part of their parat Transit vendor but I don't think that their Ubers and lifts have um accessibility for a wheelchair like Mr robelot well they they would in order to be a ride

provider um for the MBTA they would have to now I can look into how they they're pulling it off but in order to be a vendor to provide parat transit services in the MBTA districts that use the ride they would have to have it okay um I think councelor uh Washington wanted to file a motion it this is my thing as chairman of this committee I chaired this committee years

ago I'm back to chairing and now I've kind of cheered all these committees but I don't want us to say we're going to table this like this was tabled on the medallions and now two years later we're talking about it if we're going to do this I would make a suggestion that if the committee wishes to table that attorney for debt and Mr Russo and um owners of a cab company meet

with the commission on disability Mr Peli is extremely knowledgeable of the Ada law um he is a wealth of information and will be very helpful in discussions along with Mr robelot to have a meeting and look at what are the different options what's going to work for everyone and if it is a a problem with the purchase of a vehicle I think that the administration needs to do something

because quite frankly um Mr y dos was promised something and it never came through but if there's money out there um to be able to purchase or if we can use Bristol County Opa and make a motion from this committee to get x amount of dollars from that to do it I know we we just purchased the uh trolley for the city and that is handicap handicap accessible and does have a lift and we

made sure that we did that because we knew that that was important but if there is a motion to table I'd like to know that there can be a meeting of the minds to look at what legally we can do and what we can't do just for this portion of I don't want to table everything but just for this portion of this if number six if there is a motion I make a motion to table number

six mam chair before it's table may I add two quick things if I say no you're still going to add it Danny I've been here forever with you absolutely Danny absolutely Mr Rob ask Mr you a question sure are you are you doing any uh contract work that requires you to have an accessible vehicle of any kind no no no have you ever in the last 10 years no okay and for f full discour Madam

chair I want to say uh like Mr pooi I am a member of the for of a disability commission I'm also the uh uh the Ada rep for the uh Southeastern Regional Transit Authority Advisory Board I'd like to say something I appreciate you people trying to get it together I hope we can get it together I'm not against you for years we've been trying to get this worked out

I I I just got burnt once and you know now you get a little bit shaky I I understand Mr y but it was and I believe you understand this as well uh the way the way you got burnt was through no fault of the commission you had an issue with the city a and a a transition within administrations we the disability commission had absolutely no funding and no ability to fund that grant that you

were promised by the lamit administration and Jim Smith at the time thank you thank you okay um Council Washington you were going to make a motion um it was she made it was there a second number six I second it you second okay motion to table by councilor Samson and second by Council hot all those in favor I I roll call yes no yes yes the second part um that we're going to talk about is The

Medallion and councilor reposa and councelor Kilby oh no no I'm sorry they uh were absent when this came through um but it was to limit the number of taxic cap medallions available to 50 increase yearly fees uh $60 per Medallion to $100 per Medallion allow the transfer of medallions between Vehicles without incurring additional fee allow the number of medallions to be owned by the

business such as liquor licenses so that they would have their their value to the business and wave the $25 fee for resealing taxi meters a onetime $1 increase in the drop due to the severe increase in fuel that was sent to attorney Ramsey and attorney Ramsey wrote back um that attach please find the 2015 article from from the Heritage Foundation regarding the pros and cons of Taxi capab Medallion system in short

the article concludes that taxi cab medallion systems artificially erect economic barriers to entry that protects existing taxi interests from competition succinctly stated in the last sentence of the article Medallion systems are dying and policy makers should let them die there are other articles that reach the same conclusion for example in 2011 uh a report that was prepared for the city council of the district

Colombia who was considering the creation of The Medallion system stated the following regarding implementation of The Medallion system by restricting Supply and creating High barriers to entry there is an unmet demand for taxi service longer wait times for taxis more response to phone request less clean vehicles and poorer quality of service at higher fairs so that was the response that we

received no he doesn't have to yeah Dennis do you want to stay on the line as we talk about medallions or um I I don't think I need to okay but if you want to that's fine okay thank you have a good day Mr pelli thank you Mr pelli for your Mr fat what's your feeling my opening comments alluded to research that was begun by Mr Rumsey that I have continued

uh him handing off essentially the file um there are very very few um in my research reports that paint a positive picture of The Medallion system noting the very things that Mr Rumsey pointed out things do not happen had seemed not to have changed very much uh in the last years in regards to uh those cities New York City uh notably and other large metropolises uh Running of The Medallion

system does not seem to benefit very much the rider um by limiting it it uh also keeps new uh potential cab companies from forming uh and and uh competition which we know it's competition due to supply and demand that results in fairs being set but when you have monopolies that are created by governments in The Medallion system you're removing competition because nobody new can come in um of

course the one thing in respect to those with cab companies that are with us here is I I don't know the effect of what Uber and Lyft has done to the business of running a c company I can only surmise is not an easy environment to make money in currently um and to further restrict by increasing the number of medallions without uh and we don't have a any type of um uh ordinance request to start

limiting companies like L and Uber and anyone else that that are even smaller than that um it is does not it does not appear to me it did not appear to Mr Ramsey and I'm very thankful uh uh Council prayer that you read his notes here that um anyone taking a clinical approach who doesn't own a cab company will come up with very positive commentary as to why there this should continue um with further restrictions

and I say that again with all due respect to the folks that are here uh to I'm sure argue to the contrary I think part of the problem with the medallions and maybe Faith um could talk about some of the problems that the cap companies are having with ubber and lift that people tend to call a cap company call an Uber call a lift whoever gets their first they go off with if you don't if

you call for a lift or an Uber and you don't take it then you're going to get fined you're still going to get bills but if you call and cancel you won't get that $5 charge the cab company you call them they get there you're not there they're not getting a service you know a $5 fee so there's there's a lot going on with that um and you know getting drivers even has been difficult um Faith

Walmart with a sign in his window a rides for $ Five Doll this is going on all through the city and on Facebook when Uber and LIF first started lifting there was a guy that worked for Uber and he ran an ad don't go work for Uber come work for me so this guy opened up his own company and I want to say his name is Michael Cardoza he was a a Uber driver

he's got his own service going now so this is all what's going on in the city and I guess at the time too we were talking about medallions was not to put anybody in for over down but a useless ride like people want it now they want it yesterday and between us and for OFA taxi they called the double call all the time even before Uber and lift came about we would call each other and say

hey because we we catch on to them after a while you know and they say hey did you get this call and we they say yeah and we just don't send it at all because what is it is it a mad race to get there so now when we were talking about medallions is if you had five other companies in the city they're going to call the five companies they guaranteed

they are and it's a race to see who's going to get there first I I know that we had vets cab which is now for River cab yeah and we have Town Taxi and I did see another uh Cab Company the other day Shem Shem Shem the cab Shem sh and a cab cha in a

cab company here in for River new beit Newport Providence he never get just doesn't give the money okay I I has a thing about woman too he likes to sit around head on the ladies when they get in the car call me later on you know I'll give you where you got to go okay um I don't know about that but I do know that we only really have two cap

companies because I'm told that uh there was a problem with what but those um two cap companies I'd like to hear what the other cab company had to say we did invite them um so they're not here but would you suggest uh that we just get rid of The Medallion since they're of no purpose well at this point would you get rid of liquor licenses would you get rid of you know stuff like that license on

that the license is a license okay because now there's no limit on on medallions anybody can come in and get one and that you don't think it's fair or you think it's fair well I've got over 30 years in here when I when I retire what do I got to look forward to can you put that microphone in front of him absolutely I have I come down here when it

was was City Cab no uh City Hall cab oh yeah that's when I took over Yellow Cab I had a Yellow Cab that was 19 over 30 years ago anyway I said I would clean up the industry and I did everything was fine there was no argument about who Medallion is what but I always thought that the medallions weren't with the company you know here I am 75 years old ready to

retire she's going to take over what happens when she gets 75 years old it's my partner that's her husband right there we're all getting older if it was a liquor license you could sell it you ain't going to do nothing with the cab license so are you a the feeling that The Medallion should be limited by the city yes I am you are okay and there was a big controversy

about that a few years back and then people were going to come in for them we didn't have a lot of people that came in for them so all right that's something the committee can take up Council reposa Council I just I just have a question because I don't again I'm a youngie here so I don't know how many how many cap companies have either opened or attempted to open in the past 10

years none to my knowledge the only one I know is that one cap company sh sham shap the cap and how many how many medallions do you currently possess in your company as many as you want to give me no but how many do you have in your possession currently it was it used to be no we used to have 20 22 oh now right now yeah this moment only running 12 only 12

okay if we had the workers be more okay but there's really it seems like there's no no taxi competition taxi company competition per se it's really become outside competition of of a whole different ball game essentially correct yeah I mean I think I think the argument again you know to respect the counciler the idea is that it should be capped but really capping it at this point is relevant because you have other

groups that are coming in Uber and lift are going to do exactly the same thing and not have to go through the process I think uh the point that Mr yums is trying to make is that if I sell my company and I have the medallions and I sell it then it's worth it to somebody if I if anybody can come in and get one then I have nothing it's almost like a

Lial license can be sold to somebody else if I'm not using it I can sell it to you um that we have actually deflated the value of his business by allowing um open you know open Medallion season that anybody can come in and get one so that if we cap the number then if one cap company needed it they buy it from each other maybe maybe so but but the problem

is is that you have another form of business that's essentially devaluing right already it's not it's not an argument of the medallions have value or not it's an outside entity is valuing the process in and of itself so that I think that's where the problem lies and and to the attorney I know in my small research there are some places that have put in restrictions on Uber and lft as

municipalities I don't disagree we all have that if I was allowed to ask a question I'm not a counselor no no you can ask a question absolutely the coun okay to the cab companies right using the example of travel agencies isn't this part of the issue the business model has changed I can get on my phone and know exactly what it's going to cost to go from 08 to point B there's actually competition where you

can choose the type of vehicle for instance you want is I haven't taken a cab in years when I call for a cab I cannot get a quote as to what my trip is going to cost me can I you SE that system so you can so you can the information we're we're on computer tell you everything we can tell you where the cars are how soon it's going to get to

your house everything cuz we do everything by we have a computer system that shows where the car is we can tell people exactly somebody will call how much longer for my cab they around the corner of your street right now as we speak so I guess my next question would be given the fact that cab companies unlike left and Uber are operating in a medallion system the cost of those things have to

be passed on to the rider who calls up and calls so we everybody has to pay for the gas of course and and the and the uh insurance issues which are probably not the same but that's just a guess but isn't it the business model that has changed the environment for cab companies to operate in the ways I've just suggested being able to call on your phone quickly get an answer

possibly get a quicker ride because the Uber and lift drivers are scattered across the city and might be a lot closer than when you were 12 cabs to come pick up I'm just if I saw a NE a reason to get rid of The Medallion system it would be the business model that's currently operating for folks to get rides and you know maybe not so much some of the other things that have been discussed here tonight

correct could I ask for a five minute

recess

go ahead sorry that was it and how you know Uber and LIF have come into the area charging a quarter of what it we're we're governed by the city we we are governed on what we charge Uber and LIF are not so they came charging $3 for a $10 ride huh Charing $250 come back well that's it too see they got their own thing too you know they they rake people in by oh wow

you're only $40 to go to New Port we try to call them to come back does anyone have any questions uh I the only question that I have is did you say attorney for Deb that there are some restrictions that can be put on Uber and lifts certainly there are cities across this country that have put restrictions in some of them I think if you uh took a ride recently to Logan Airport they don't

they don't go into Logan anymore they they there's a there's an exit where you can call for a ride but is certainly not convenient and restrictions like that pop up all over um I haven't seen any you know Draconian uh uh measures taken myself where they've you know basically removed the services from cities I don't know how you could possibly enforce it but uh but but certainly um uh this Council

someday might want to take up the issue of whether restrictions can be put in place to be a to make it a More Level Playing Field for cabs or conversely uh to understand that the world has Chang like I said you they're not going to see too many travel companies anymore and we all know why because you go on your phone you want your ticket to Florida or wherever else you're going it's right

there you're removing whatever costs were associated with the running of that for and I I see cab companies probably uh you know in a similar way that it just must be impossible uh to to try and keep up uh financially with basically you know unbridled uh uh companies that spring up overnight whether and I've seen that too it's not just lift and those are the we'll call those for

better on return the legit companies now you've got these uh ad hog companies that are forming and and guess what when it comes to the money coming out of your wallet for a ride a lot of people are going to go with the cheapest option they can find well that's true and with a cad company you have to have a certain amount of insurance you know your vehicle you have to have the the meter

tested and you know a a lot of governmental uh regulations and Uber and lft I mean I think your car needs to be a certain year or something like that um but outside of that if you have somebody in your vehicle you don't have to have any special Insurance um minimum so I'm times are changing are there any motions on the floor Council reposa yeah so I'm I'm not personally speaking I'm not convinced

that the answer to this problem is capping medallions I think there's some some idea that like we could probably reduce the um pressure is not the right word but reduce the um look can't think of the right word but Fe yeah I mean maybe give give the cap company a little bit of a break you know because again they're in a position they are in a business that is experiencing competition from the

outside could we Levy reducing some of that fee on them so they can continue to be successful to a service in which they provide to people but at the same time to the council's point with the understanding that an outside en and the business model has changed so we're trying to compete with that which is hard to but yet give them a little more leeway to do their work that they're

still providing a service to our people but I think right with this as it stands not sure answers that so I I'm GNA make a motion Grant leave to withdraw on this okay could you hold your motion coun I was just curious attorney for Deb when you mentioned um restrictions um off the top of your head do you know what or do you are you aware of any for lifting that the certain municipalities have Z

restrict sir zones of operation zones of operation and that's what they do at the airports they're not allowed to go into where the taxi cabs for instance or the buses are allowed you the designated areas that restricts the amount uh of of the uh available rides so that's kind of like a artificial way of encouraging people to use taxis because they're right there they're in a line right

outside the baggage claim so I've seen that I noticed it this weekend I just did a weekend in Milwaukee and that was absolutely the case not only in Logan but when we got up to Milwaukee as well a very small airport an airport probably more akin to uh TF Green than Logan which is you know a monster um so some communities I think sympathizing with the plight of where cab companies are now and obviously encouraging cab

companies to continue to exist they put things like that like you're not allowed to operate Las Vegas if you go to Las Vegas you will find hotels that don't allow them in whatsoever if you're going to order a lift ride somewhere on the Strip or outside you have to walk and sometimes it's several blocks to do so so and that has the effect of again people are going to get rides that are

convenient right there for them um unless and I know one of the things here was to increase fairs well that's one way to to to further the plight of the C it's increase fairs um because again people are going to take the easiest out now um as far as those municipalities that uh that created those ordinances did they I'm sure there was some push back by left in the Uber and how serious

did it get as far as did it go to court and I'm sure and I don't have the answer to that but U but I can certainly look further into that issue of yeah I'd like to I'd like to maybe have the attorney look into that as far as um if if there's if there are is if there's a potential of maybe doing doing something like that well Council reposa put a um

he just asked for leave to withdraw if you want to ask for a motion to table giving them opportunity to do that yeah I think you're president over yeah I think I'd like to do that just for now make make a motion to table while we wait to hear from attorney for motion to table has been made by Council H is there a second a second there's a second all in favor are you on a roll

call no I I I agree with the idea all in favor I attorney for that thank you so much for coming down it's the first time You' been before the ordinance committee and um I appreciate all the work you did on this and I look forward we'll probably be meeting on these things again um sometime in April okay April's meeting because if not we lose this and then it never comes back and I am really looking

at making sure we keep things together thank you thank you uh Mr yums uh you you had to give your name and address for the record and I forgot to ask you your address I didn't know and F same thing Frederick Humes Jr 4,000 I to take we live how many 40001 North Main Street Faith Lessa 119 wola RH and Swansea thank you thank you so much than you I didn't get the address counselor

umple know thank you both for coming appreciate itow them now quite there's restrictions it thank you for that councilor Raposa so just to be clear are we asking Corporation Council to present to us examples of ordinances from other areas of municipalities restricted Uber and lift and presented to us at the next meeting okay yes and we'd like to have a meeting in April I know we have one scheduled

for April the 9th at 4:30 and I believe April 19 23rd one custom pulled up to the house she was walking to the to the van she and fell oh Bo she di oh my goodness in hospital ohot second motion to adjourn made by uh councelor reposa and seconded by councelor har thank you so much thank you thank you so much all in favor I overy hey hey hey hey hey hey

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