11.18.2025 Historical Commission

Good evening. I'm Richard Mancini, chairman of the historical commission for the city of Fall River and it is 6 o'clock. The day is Tuesday and the date is November the 18th. We are meeting at one government center on the first floor hearing room. Pursuant to the open meeting law, any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium. And attendees are

therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made without or within perceived or unpersceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible. Our recording secretary this evening is Commissioner Connie Soul. She's sitting on my right. And this meeting this evening is being televised and recorded by Craig of the Four River Government TV. Uh present this evening are absent

appears to be Jonathan Lemur and Commissioner Ashley Dunia.

Present is Commissioner Connie Soul on my left, Commissioner Joyce Rodri, Commissioner Carol Orin, and Commissioner Ryan Klene. and I Rick Manseni. We have no vacancies at this time.

Commissioner Soul, uh, have all petitions been properly advertised and all interest parties have been notified in accordance with the laws and regulations of the Historic Commission of Fall River?

Yes.

I hereby then declare Tuesday, November the 18th of our regularly scheduled meetings of the Historic Commission of the City of Fall River open for business and shall resume before us. Thank you.

And good evening. Wow, what a nice pleasant group to have here. Very exciting. Thank you. Uh we've got uh a lot of business uh this evening. Uh I'm looking out at the crowd. I I'm uh we were uh expecting uh Carol Fiola, but she's working uh this evening at the state house, so she's not here. Uh I do not see she was going to have a representative here, an administrator. I

don't see that here yet. Uh we do have uh the uh chairman of the uh conservation commission and also chairman of the uh preservation committee here uh John Brandt and I see the president of the uh preservation society uh he's here Alexander.

So that's good. A lot of important people here. Good. Great. Thank you so much. Uh what I'd like to do is I'd like to uh open this meeting there. We're expecting other parties and I I don't see them as of yet. Um, we were going to, and I I probably not recognizing them, but we were going to have uh our uh I guess the uh pleasure I was going to have the pleasure of saying that we

have representatives of our neighbor native American families and Mike Labosio would be introducing them. So, uh if they're here, uh or get here a little later, we can take care of that.

Okay. what uh I'd like to start the meeting and would um I would like to just take out of the agenda and look under the old business item number one if I can open the page up myself.

Okay. Under old business item number one. Would someone make a motion that we put that as item number one and open our business accordingly? I'll make a motion to move uh under old business number one to um next on the agenda.

Okay.

Second.

All right.

Made and seconded.

Okay.

Uh and I hear no objections. So, it's accepted.

Uh what I'm going to do is introduce you to Mike Labosia. And Mike Labosio has been working very very closely with PL.

And I'm going to let Mike have the floor, and give you a brief synopsis of how this started, how it's gone and moved along, where it's gotten to today, and where it's going to go in the future. Uh, what I'd like you to do, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of questions, and if you could just hold them till after the presentation, and then be free to ask as many questions as

you would uh deem necessary. Okay, Mike, the floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr. chairman.

So, my name is Mike Labos here. I'm the forester for the city of Far River Watuper Reservation. Um, operated out of 2929 Blossom Road. And what I wanted to do is offer a little uh context and continuity tonight. We have um we have a presentation tonight from public archaeological labs who has done um a terrific um a terrific service for the city um to uh inventory historic resources that are out in the um

Southeastern Mass Bio Reserve. Um I've had the privilege of managing these forest lands uh for many years. Um it includes the what's uper reservation which is about 5,000 acres uh of watershed land as well as um the Ausha sawmills and other private uh ownerships uh forest ownerships in the reservation area.

One takeaway as vast and as isolated as these lands are they were not always vacant lands.

They were populated and animated by hundreds of years of human occupation and much evidence still remains.

First I I want to um say with great deference uh to the native peoples before us that their use of the land isn't readily seen.

uh they lived lightly upon the land and it is not our intention to unearth or disturb anything uh uh out there.

So um I don't as as um Rick mentioned I don't I don't see the Perry or the Paige families uh here tonight. Um they they had both been invited but um what I did want to say about that they they've had a long association with the land in East Fall River and um in particular the historical commission is determined to take this opportunity to work closely with these local Picassid families on

the next phase of the historical landscape project that we uh that we're undertaking.

East Fall River is made up of hundreds of parcels of land. Again and again you encounter evidence of settlement and improvement.

Much of what endures is stone, stone walls, boundary stones, stone foundations of houses and barns, granite bridges, handdug wells, rural mill sites, and the like. Other clues can be found in certain landforms, shapes, and patterns, and even in the ecological communities that are present. As a forester, my job is to grow trees that protect the water supply, keep the forest safe, and hopefully produce some

forest crops that have value.

But what's been a real revelation is that the mark of human interaction with the land in East Fall River is everywhere.

And it's interesting just as people are interesting, even more so when you contrast the east part of the city uh to the west. Generations before us built mills and houses creating the urban city we know. In the process, they scrubbed away most of the farms and rural landscape along the bay. But out here in the what's up reservation, the bio reserve area, it's just the opposite. Farms were

abandoned, lands were acquired for water supply and other conservation uses. And the evidence was preserved like an ancient insect in amber. And that's where we will begin tonight.

Um about five years ago, Al Lima, and as someone that would be familiar to many of you in the room, Alum teed up in a a historic house inventory project in Steep Brook area for CPA grant. As an afterthought, he called and asked if we could put together a list of historic and cultural features to be cataloged uh that exist in the bio reserve.

And this is the result. So um at this point I would like to introduce um a couple of um folks from um PLA. Laura Klein is the senior archaeological architectural historian and Holly Hooster is the senior archaeologist.

They have led the team for PLA in what I think will be a really eyeopening look at sort of what's under the hood out in the bio reserve in terms of historical and um uh cultural artifacts. So I leave it to you too. Thank you.

Thank you.

Let me get things going here. Thank you for having us.

I can't do two things at once, so I have to log in and and we should be going. Um Can I move this over here while I'm talking? Switch to you. So, thank you, Mike, for um uh introducing us and for giving us that incredible um introduction. Oops. Sorry. Hold on one second.

No, I didn't get the password right.

Okay, sorry about that everyone. I will start our slideshow. And I apologize that um it's going to be a little hard to see.

Um we we're not showing up on the screen.

Well, we got that master technician up there. He'll take care of business.

I'll I'll get started. Um so anyway, thanks thank you Mike for the introduction. Uh Laura and I are both um senior members of the team at the public archaeology lab. We're a Pucket, Rhode Islandbased um historic preservation firm. We do the full range of services for cultural resource management. So we have archaeologists, we have preservation planners, architectural historians, uh we have a full lab staff,

we have a full um administrative and production department and we typically work on projects for clients um both private, federal, state agencies, local governments um when there is some type of development project that's going to be happening. So, we're the people who get called in as part of project review to look for um as you probably know, you've probably reviewed projects like this, to look for historic and

archaeological resources. So, it's a real treat for us when we're working on a project where we're not sort of staring in the face of development where we're doing documentation for an area that is preserved, that's being preserved, and where we can bring information forward to help fill out the full history of Fall River. So, this has been a really great project for us to work on. We worked very closely with

Rick and Mike on the project. Um the city developed the scope of work for the project, identified the properties for us to go out and do our survey work for.

As Rick mentioned, phase one of hopefully um a continuing project to go out and look at more resources. But the areas that we looked at, important to know, were selected by local residents, by members of the historical commission, Mike's folks, Mike and his folks in the water department. So people who know the landscape and know what areas to look at. What you're looking at on the screen

are a lot of probably very hard to see dots, but this is the area that we surveyed primarily the east as Mike mentioned the area around uh Wata reservoir copicut um area and then also a little bit of the steepbrook area to look at historic structures. the map that you're looking at, the historical commission members have a large hard copy of it as well as an electronic version. Um, one of the things that I

want to state from the beginning is that archaeological site locations in Massachusetts, as in most parts of the country, are not public information.

They're protected and maintained as confidential mainly to protect them.

It's not to prevent members of the public from understanding what historical resources are, but just so that people who would intend to do harm or go out and try and disturb or collect at them are not able to do so. So, we're not going to be showing really detailed maps or discussing in in tremendous detail the locations of places today.

That's not to keep that information from the public or from anybody else. It's just it's just to protect resources. And there's a tremendous amount of information that we can share about the survey that we did. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. So um as um Mike's already mentioned, the project that we worked on was funded by the city with a scope developed by um by

by the city. Um except for the steep brook area where we looked at um the built environment, the rest of the areas we looked at are all in preserved land.

So within the bio reserve, we were looking at properties that were owned by the city, the state, um one area that is uh the Miller farm area, that's trustees of reservation zone, but these are all areas where there is no development planned now or in the future. The properties that we looked at date primarily from the early 18th century through the 20th century. The bulk of them are in the 19th century. So,

properties that were built and used in the 1800s. Um, again, uh, as Mike mentioned, we know that the history of this area goes back at least 10,000 years, if not longer. Um, and our goal was just to focus this effort on a set of resources that date to the period from the late 1700s, 1800s, um, into the 20th century that were not associated with indigenous land use. and activity specifically because information

gathering needs to come from indigenous folks um as part of that phase of work and we were looking primarily at documents um and historic maps, local histories um and then doing our site visits. So we wanted to be sure that um we were were we were not doing research on indigenous sites as this part of the project. But again, not to dismiss that important part, that's most of the

history of this area is is prior to when Europeans arrived. Um, we did not do as part of the survey any kind of testing or excavation or artifact collection. So even though I'm an archaeologist, um, we we call this sort of a reconnaissance level survey. So it involved walking the ground surface, going to these locations, documenting their existing conditions, mapping them, taking photographs, but absolutely no

disturbing these um resources of any kind.

Um another another part of our work was focused on after we did this field survey, we'll talk about each of these steps in a little more detail, was to prepare a historical context. So the narrative that's in the the report that you have is to contextualize and be able to interpret the resources that we've identified and then to use that information to develop recommendations um about their eligibility for listing

in the National Register of Historic Places. So there's a level of identification that goes on. We did this first level of identification which was locating and mapping the resources and then filling out forms that go on file with the Massachusetts Historical Commission. Um the Mass Historical Commission, so MHC, you'll see that referenced again and again when we're talking today. The office of the state

archaeologist and the state historic preservation office are housed at the Mass Historical Commission. The MHC oversees all of the cultural resource work that goes on this in the state. For archaeological work, any type of digging or survey testing, anything like that requires a permit from the state archaeologist. So, we did not need a permit for this project for reasons I explained to you earlier. Um, but we do

file our report and all the forms with the with the Mass Historical Commission and they review and comment on our products. So, we've submitted after it was reviewed internally, we submitted our report to the Massachusetts Historical Commission. Um, and they have accepted it and it will go on file there. The resources that we've identified, that map that I showed you in the last slide, will be included in

the inventory of the historic assets of the Commonwealth. The nonarchchaeological sites will ultimately be listed in a public facing or they can be accessed in a public-f facing um Massachusetts cultural resource information system that anyone in the public can access. The archaeological sites will be recorded and kept behind a confidential wall but other archaeologists or if somebody

somebody's doing some type of review in that area will be able to access that information. So those were the basic tasks that we were we were asked to complete. um conduct research, do field survey, compile the historical narrative, put it into a report and then complete forms, various types of forms for the resources that we had been asked to look at.

So our our work was primarily um started with doing background research. So looking at, you know, the local Fall River histories, looking at like the Phillips history, for example, um some of the other published and unpublished resources that talk broadly about the history of Fall River and identify specific areas where activities happened. Um Mike is an archist whether he wants to admit it or not and whether

he inherited it, but the water department has a tremendous amount of of research and archives, much of it in little bits and pieces. It was it was kind of like doing an archaeological excavation to go through some of that of that information, but lots of papers and maps and you know um oral oral interviews and local resident um information that had come in. So we mined the water department's files for

information about not just the resources we were looking at but sort of the broader context. Uh we looked at information that the historical commission historical society has. Um in addition to looking at historic maps and atlases, a lot of the information that we got comes from the 19th century maps that as you know have have pretty good detail about where some of these properties were located. And then we

also looked at uh Department of Conservation and Recreation archives. So they have their own set of cultural resource files. We consulted with them throughout the project to share information back and forth for properties on state forest lands and state lands. And then we also looked at other archaeological studies that have been conducted. A few of the resources that we uh documented for this survey

had actually already been identified as part of earlier survey projects in limited areas. Some archaeological studies. For example, um when the Fall River uh industrial park was built, there was an archaeological survey.

Actually, Pal did it back prior to my time. Um but Pal did an archaeological survey there and recorded some resources. And then there were a few other smaller um surveys that have been conducted. So, we updated information for those types of things. We went out and did field survey. I'll talk about that in a little more detail in a minute. and then the report and the forms.

So the context development that we did, we I won't spend a lot of time going through the history of Fall River because this group obviously knows that history and most of the members of the public who are here know that as well.

But we tried to tie the resources the individual resources that we were asked to document which fall typically within a relatively short period of time when they were built and used and then abandoned with the broader development of Fall River. So that's why in part our study focuses primarily on the beginning of the 19th century. So the time at which really the first docu well

doumented Europeans were coming into the area. There were obviously some people who were living, you know, European and indigenous people were living together on the land prior to that, but the the early 1800s is when the first, you know, more substantial European or or European uh related activity started. Um uh so we know that that Steepbrook was originally one of the community centers in Fall

River. That was part of the reason I think that some of the properties that we looked at were selected there. And then you have the explosion of population um with the development of the mill industry in other parts of Fall River. But during that period, what's really remarkable is that the eastern section of Fall River remains undeveloped, relatively speaking, which when you think about sort of the

juxtaposition between the heavily urbanized, massively populated, you know, really quickly growing development center in Fall River with this area sort of in the hinterlands, but still within the city, close proximity to to the urban areas, um remained relatively undeveloped. Um, obviously farming went on in this area. There were small individual homesteads and settlements.

Some limited industrial development, not the scale of the textile mills, but small mills on the smaller brooks that had a specific purpose, especially in the earlier part of the 19th century.

Um, and then the farmers who farms that were providing produce and supplies to the urban parts of the city.

And then you have your small clusters of development around Blossom Road. um the Copic Road area, the Terry Brook area, Indian Town Road and so we do have when we looked at the map, we do have some res resources that are sort of concentrated in those sections of town.

So a lot of our resources um that we identified or that we documented date to that that sort of early middle part of the 19th century into the late 19th century. So that I would say the bulk of the resources date to that period of about like 1830 or so up to the early 1900s.

And then we had a number of resources that relate to the development of the um Wuppa reservation and the taking of the land for the water um for water purposes. So we have a lot of resources that date to that period of time as well. One of the documented um sites that we have is the interceptor canal that was built on the west side of um Mutapa Pond along Meridian Road. The

physical elements of that, the drains where they come out into the pond. Um we looked at some of the CCC camp, Civilian Conservation Corps camp areas from the 1930s and some of the resources that that they built. So the trails, the fire roads, um we documented some of the fire ponds that they built within the what became the state forest. So that's another set of resources that we looked

at. Um and then there was obviously the more industrial development that happened around the construction of Route 24, I95. Um and then that brings us up into uh the you know mid 20th centuryish. But one of the re probably the most recent resource that we documented was the um interlockan area the world war II development later um the camp sort of on the northern edge of our research area.

So again resources spanning sort of the early to mid 1800s all the way up through the mid 20th century.

So, we conducted our field survey in September through between September and December, which is really the best time to be out in the woods when the leaves are off. Um, unfortunately, the ticks were still pretty bad, but that's the best time to go out and look at um the landscape. And one of the things that is that Laura will talk about when I'm done talking a little bit more about

archaeology is that we did look at a variety of resources. So it wasn't just discrete um archaeological sites or building we buildings. We also looked at some landscape like built landscapes um areas that are larger and maybe cover more territory and that relate to um relate to a number of activities that went on. Um some of the locations we went to we needed um Mike and his crew

to take us to. They're in pretty remote areas. They're not all accessible. So we we didn't limit ourselves to just places that you could see off the side of the road. We went deep into the woods in a number of of cases. Um, some of these loca we visited each one of the locations, but some of them are really only at this point known through historic maps. So, there are a number of

locations. Um, one of the ones I'm thinking of I think is maybe the Yellow Hill Schoolhouse. That was one of the resources that we documented. There's no surface visible evidence of that site today. We know the location because it's clearly marked on historic maps. But in order to document whether there is anything physical left of that structure, that would require an additional effort in some archaeological

survey which was which we're not doing at this stage. So most of the resources have some kind of a visible element or some indication on the landscape of where they were. But a few of them um a few of them we only we could only document that here's the location.

There's nothing visible now, but we know that the that the the site was there.

So, we had a um web-based application that we developed for the project. We went out with iPads. We were able to get very specific locationational data for each one of the resources. So, we pulled that into a um global information system uh database. So, we're able we were able to, you know, navigate to the site. the the historical commission water department will have those or does have

those files. So the locations will be known. Um we took notes on the existing conditions. What does the area look like? If it's a seller hole, is it, you know, is it in ruins? Is there vegetation growing over it? Is there any, you know, what are the elements that we can see on the ground surface?

We took um multiple photographs from different angles of each one of these resources. And then we use that information to complete the appropriate form for the different types of resources. So archaeological sites get one type of form where you include certain types of information. Buildings, structures, landscapes, um areas get another type of form. And I'll let Laura talk about those in just a few minutes.

So the archaeological sites that we documented um included sometimes just basically what looks like a small depression in the ground. very little indication even of stone or foundation. But to um to me as an archaeologist and probably to a lot of people who spend time out in the woods, it's sort of telltale when you see that, you know, depression in the ground with a mound around it. So, we had a few of

those. We had other seller holes and foundations that were more visible, some of them, including still some upright elements of walls. Um and then you have the really visible uh historic um archaeological sites like the Bordon estate for example which you know there are many elements of that that are still visible today and the uh the Arctic ice ruins which those are you know those are

really massive and really easily easy to see. We documented, as I mentioned, a number of small historic mills um and the elements that they originally contained. So things like channelized waterways. So we were documenting things like natural streams that have been diverted or ponded or lined with stone.

Um those types of things as well as the ice works I mentioned and uh a couple of locations where stone quarrying went on.

So documenting the area that that where you can see the marks left behind by the tools that took the stone away. Um the CCC camp um I mentioned uh one the camp or at least part of the camp was located during a survey that pal did when the um Sylv Silva Sylvia school was built off Meridian Road at the time. This is kind of an interesting the more you know. At

the time we identified a 19th century elements of a 19th century residential homestead, but then we also identified some archaeological materials from the 20th century that obviously were not part of that earlier site. And we did not when we did that original survey about 20 years ago realize that that had been the location where there was a CCC camp. I mean, the we knew the camp was

somewhere in the area, but we thought that it was a little bit more distant.

And as part of the survey, we were able because we were able to do more intensive research on on the background of the of the CCC in the area, we were able to update that archaeological site form and actually separate out the two the older 19th century site from the slightly more recent um CCC uh site. And then again just kind of following up on what I had said earlier, the most recent

sites being, you know, sort of World War II era um interlockan and and then the camp that was there and identifying sort of the structural remains that are left for that. So with that, I'm going to turn it over to my colleague Laura to talk about some of the other types of resources that we documented and then um we'll follow up with questions.

Thanks Holly. Um yeah, so this um as Holly said, we had um a variety of property types for this survey and um so in that sense it was a little unusual for us. Um we tend to either have architectural historians working on a building survey and archaeologists doing their thing. This time we were working together and we had to kind of look at all the the resources, the universe of resources and

figure out how best to make the um Massachusetts Historical Commission inventory forms fit what we were looking at. And so, you know, we had quite a few discussions with some of the resources about how should we best document them.

And um you know this um slide shows that we had we had a handful of um uh buildings I think in the end let's see we had eight building forms and um those were mostly the steep rock houses some of which had been documented years ago by the historical society but um the forms from the 1970s are very different from today's um MHC forms they don't have as nearly as much information on

them so we updated some of those we created new forms for buildings that had been um that had not been documented then including um the Clark Street Bridge which is um documented on a structure form. It's a different type of a a form that MHC has. Then um we did two area forms for um groups of buildings. The one that's shown on the slide is the um Wata reservation headquarters, which also had been

documented previously, but we updated the area form there again with new information that had come from um some maps that we looked at from Mike and kind of looking at the larger extent of that um 19th century property and including some resources that had had not been surveyed before.

Um, we had about um 11 burial grounds that were documented on a specific form that MHC has for for burial grounds. And those um they range from some um kind of typical laidout family plots with, you know, a handful of stones. And in some cases, there was just one stone. In other cases, there's cemeteries where we know that um there are burials, but the the stones are either missing or removed.

So we we had to choose um whether we had an archaeological site or a burial ground. And so in a couple of cases um that was a discussion that we had to have. Um and then the um in addition to the ar archae standard archaeological sites we had a lot of landscape features and um again we kind of went back and forth on a couple of those about whether to document them on the landscape form

the MHC has where it's um it's more of a a cultural site that has um maybe some built features maybe not and um some of it you know it can be used for a design landscape or what we have here was more vernacular particular landscape. So, we had um six landscape forms and then um the majority were archaeological sites.

We had 28 um of those forms that we filled out. Um so, these are the the what the MHC forms look like now. And I just um put up some samples, but we'll just give you some um kind of overview of the types of resources we looked at. We had um houses in Steepbrook which um you know there's a a circa 1780 house and um we pulled together the general narrative

of the the construction of the house and the ownership. We didn't do in-depth deed research, but looking at maps and putting together a broad brush history of the property enough so that you can um look at the context that we developed the the overall history of the area and determine whether this the the property it isn't, you know, has integrity to that period, whether it's had a lot of

alterations and whether, you know, where it fit into that overall context. Um then um we had the in the middle is one of the um landscape forms. And so I think those those properties are a little more unique. Um, we had a couple. We had um this pudding stone in in the um Wapa Pond that the water department had files um going back to the early 20th century when the city engineer

used some of these um natural formations to monitor the level of the pond because it was the city's um water supply and trying to figure out what was going on.

So there's um marks and iron bolts in the the putting stone there in in Blossom Brook. And um we documented that on a on a site landscape form. It's for parks and landscapes. And then um we also had um we had Bell Rock was another um landscape that we documented which is mentioned in the Philips history. And a lot of the the sites on the list that we received were things that were mentioned

in the Philips history as having some sort of local cultural significance. Not a lot of information. So there's not a lot to go on from there. And hopefully we've collected what there what there is known to serve as a baseline for you know in in the future people doing research will know well this is what we know and this is where we've looked and maybe you know as as more information

comes to light. So, Bell Rock is also documented on a on a landscape form and then as I mentioned the burial grounds which um generally are family burial plots and most of them are now on um you know they're either behind private houses or um on public land and a lot of them are not in in use or you know the family members may not even be in the area still. So, um it's important to get

their condition documented on the burial ground forms and um that will serve to um help the city figure out how to maintain them in the future.

Um we did a a handful of the structure forms as I mentioned and in a couple of cases it made sense to document um structures groups of structures together. So, as Holly had mentioned, we have some CCC resources, and there were six of these um water holes that were um documented very clearly on maps produced by the CCC and other um groups while they were working in the 1930s. and we

went out and located six of them that are on um Matapa reservation land and put them on one form together so that their history is is the same and the we wanted all that information to be compiled together. Um they were very different actually from the CCC um watering holes that have been identified in the Freetown Paul River State Forest which were perhaps just designed differently or um different groups of

workers building them. These were a little more rudimentary. they tend to be near natural springs instead of um constructed water features and they were but they their purpose was the same which was um fire suppression um in an area where that would have been a really important concern. So we did a couple of um structures as groups on structure forms which hopefully will also help in um in

you know future documentation of what's related.

And this is just a um a standard form D which is the archaeological site form.

The information is compiled a little bit differently than some of the historic forms that Laura had talked about. So it includes information about is the feature um or resource known through mapping or through other kinds of documentary information. You list that.

There's some information that you fill out as you're able to about soil type, about existing environment, slope of land, things of that sort. And then there's also a section where you fill out where has there been any previous archaeological testing or documentation done of this re of this um resource.

Unlike the forms that Laura showed you, archaeological site forms typically don't have photographs included with them. They may have technical plans, but since often times they're they're below ground resources, uh the forms usually have some type of archaeological plan drawing or something like that. Since we didn't do that here, we actually did include photographs of the resources

with our MHC um archaeological site forums because that's the information we have now. And that again will be useful as Laura mentioned to future research or future documentation especially in regards to site conditions. So having those dated photos and knowing what the site looks like today. I mean we actually had some examples of earlier photos that were in the water department

files that had either members of the of Mike's team or the water department had taken or other folks. And so we were able to see changes in the condition of these resources over time. you know, some of them more overgrown, less visible, sometimes sections of walls that had fallen in that had been standing previously. So, that's the information that we captured on the archaeological site forms for this

project, which is a little bit different from a typical archaeological survey project that we where we would be doing some some uh digging.

So, um that was just an overview of the types of um resources that are documented now um on inventory forms associated with this survey project. And as Holly mentioned, one of the um pieces included in the project is to evaluate these resources to see if any are um potentially eligible for listing in the Massachusetts State Register or the National Register. and we recommended the two areas that we surveyed are um

eligible for National Register listing.

Yeah, that's PAL's um recommendation. It is then the next step would be to um prepare a statement for the MHC to see if they agree. But um the Blossom Farm and Matapa reservation headquarters had previously been evaluated as potentially eligible back when it was initially surveyed, I think in the early 1980s. Um and as I said we updated the area form included some more resources and tried

to pull together the research and it the looking at the integrity of the the property and the buildings there. We recommended it as eligible in the area of um exploration and settlement for the early agricultural history of the property and for the 20th century um conservation history associated with the the reservation. and the fact that it's been in use as the reservation headquarters since the early 1900s,

which again, I'm not sure that the 1980s um survey really acknowledged that that could be a potential area of significance um because it was much closer in time. And the other property that we surveyed as an area is the Aderondac farm, which the reservation um the water department um now owns very recently, but up until that time it was an agricultural use. And so again that property has um a long um history uh

related to the exploration and settlement and its use as a farm. Um the current plans for the property are to use it as an education center for the bio reserve and we think that um its potential is there for um national register eligibility as well before any um you know there have not been any significant changes to the property.

So um our survey report includes recommendations for future work. Um, one of them being to look into the National Register documentation for those two, um, agricultural properties. And we also um included recommendations for further archaeological reconnaissance survey like we did in this project, potentially more intensive archaeological survey that would um would provide more

information to determine if any of those sites are potentially eligible for the the National Register listing as well.

And as Holly had mentioned, um, anything more more detailed, um, would need a permit, um, from MHC for the archaeological survey. And, uh, this survey also did not cover the potential resources from, um, associated with Native American history. So, that again would be kind of an additional level of effort and would it have to involve collaboration with um, with current members. So I don't know if you wanted

to add anything else about the recommendations.

Uh only to say that for the archaeological recommendations um you know archaeological testing even though it's done very carefully is destructive.

So since these sites at least as they exist now the archaeological sites are not being threatened. I don't think that that even though a recommendation to gather more information to determine whether they're eligible for the National Register would require some type of archaeological testing, I don't know that at this point in time there are any resources where that really should happen, but that's a decision

for, you know, the future. We certainly could do some more documentation and information gathering about specific properties. We kind of had this because there were so many archaeological sites at this in this first survey. Um, we got as much detailed information as we could get, but as Laura mentioned, you know, she didn't we didn't do detailed land evidence and deed research for each of

the of the historic properties, and we didn't do that here for the archaeological sites either. So we could certainly do additional work at targeted locations or if there's a location, you know, that is threatened by erosion or by inundation or, you know, some other natural natural um kind of action. We could certainly um we could certainly do some type of investigation or someone could do some type of investigation

going forward. So, and I think with that we have presented kind of maybe a little more than than we had originally intended, but there's a lot to talk about. We certainly didn't cover everything. We didn't have time to go over every single resource, but we are both happy to answer any questions anyone has or if anyone has questions for Mike and and anything that he talked about prior to us getting up here, we

are happy to entertain from the commission or from the audience. And thank you for having us. We appreciate the opportunity to share this information with you.

Just one moment. Paul Furlin. Yep.

Congratulations.

Paul Ferlin, the administrator for the water and sewer department was here as you were preparing to speak and he stood in the background. But welcome Paul.

Thank you.

Any questions?

I've got two questions.

Uh number one is will this PowerPoint presentation be available online for anyone to uh study?

I can I can answer that. Yes. Will it be done immediately? No. Is it going to be?

Yes.

Okay. Well, let us know where it's going to be so we can um find the right location.

It it will be on the Fall River website.

Okay. We're going to incorporate on the water department. Maybe when we're done, we're going to get it.

We'll get the steep brook and the bio reserve put on the website. So, it it'll it's not going to happen tomorrow, but it as these things have been going along, they're progressing very well. It will it will progress there. Yes.

Okay. My second question probably would include Mike and that is the overall uh discoveries that you've made uh go in the direction of preservation. So I'm kind of curious to know what is the um balance between preservation and commercial development or residential development.

What do you have out there? I mean you have people who want to build houses.

Well, let's see.

So the the purpose, excuse me. Can everyone hear?

All right. this just so the purpose of so so the Water reserv let's start right from the very beginning right in the 1870s through 1895 um as the as the city's water supply and water resources became protected of course the idea of creating the what's up reservation was to to capture the land the watershed land surrounding the water supply and be sure that that doesn't get developed so that

the that the quality of the drinking water supply remains pure and and and the land remains intact. Um so that's that's how the city approached its land conservation efforts and that was you know initially by the by the 1920s we're talking about 3,000 acres. Then in the 30s 1930s the the state forest um picked up thousands maybe 5 to 7,000 acres of land for the purpose of recreation but

again to to exclude development. So by the time 1999 2000 came along in the southeastern mass bio reserve was created it I like to use this word aggregate it it it basically added or aggregated the what's up reservation with the state forest added a lot of land in the middle that was privately owned and the whole thing about 15 14 15,000 acres at this point is excludes development so um so that's

protected permanently protected land.

So, the good news about a lot of these cultural resources that that have been uh you know, illuminated tonight, they're they're protected and and in some respects you could say they're protected by just being you know uh out in the middle of nowhere isolated, no paths necessarily even go to them. Um but when you look at the city's water supply lands, the Copakut area, the Wata reservation area, the Wata pond area,

those areas are 95% protected already.

The land is 95% protected. The the Copa Cut area is literally built out. So there's no more possibility, if you will, of of commercial development. It's not zoned for commercial development anyway, but for residential development.

And there's very little left of the Northwood upper wershed. The same thing.

So, so we're not in conflict. The battle's over. Uh, the lands are protected. So, you know, the good news is Fall River, again, I like to say, is half the urban area that we know of, very dense residential, commercial industry, whatnot. The other half of the city, 18 square miles, is virtually uh forest land, water, and most of that is protected. So, it's really not in conflict at all. I think I think Fall

River has done a really good job.

There you go.

Good to know.

Yeah. Just a general question. So relatively speaking um as an asset to the city whatever you want to define an asset um how important is this what you say 18 acres 18 square miles 18 square miles of this city I don't think people realize the value of property we always think of Florida as Florida property rarely does anything how how valuable asset is Well, from our perspective or from my

perspective as a cultural resource preservation person, you're looking at a what we would call a cultural landscape that is documents continuous use of the lands over as I said at least 10,000 years and possibly further back in areas that have literally never been developed. Like not even the the soil is not good for plowing in many of these locations. So even where the soil was

plowed, it's reverted back to woodland.

Um, right. So, it's it's incredibly I mean, we work all over New England, our company, and as an archaeologist, I've been all over Massachusetts, and there are there are very few places that I can think of where this much contiguous land has been preserved over the long period of history, like no virtually no development at all or just these little pockets where people have, you know,

left their footprint behind. Um so the fact that it's in permanent conservation is really it's an incredible asset that the city has um with its partners with you know the state and and private um conservation groups. So it's an incredibly unique and important resource or set of resources resource area I would call it.

So So are you saying that the highest and best use of the land has already been achieved because it's protected?

Yes. Yes. And so you've added to it through the work that the water department has done, the work of the state forest, the bio reserve, this project to do some additional documentation so that you are so that you know what's out there. You know, you know, you know what what the resources are and that information can be shared with the public who can also appreciate, you know, the historic character. And

there are lots of these places. You know, I say that the archaeological site locations are protected, but there are a lot of these places that everybody knows about and visits because the trails go to them. You know, they're places that people appreciate for their historic integrity and they go there to see them.

The the stone bridges, you know, the Trustees Miller Farm property is a great example of a really wellpreserved landscape that people walk through day in and day out, you know, and they're not destroying it. They're they're appreciating the historic character of it. So I think that doing this project and with the other work that the historical commission, the historical society, state um has done to sort of

capture the history of this area is is also something that contributes to its significance.

So is is Florida been doing a good job with balancing protection and and you know people going out there and and enjoying the bio reserve. There's a fine balance between protecting what's there.

Yeah.

And then encouraging people to go out and actually enjoying what's there. It it is as we said it's a very valuable asset and it's a resource.

It's for but it's something that for has and probably should come up I mean we probably plan how to share the use of this land.

Yeah. With other people. So how do we I I would think so. I mean, you know, the water department is out on the land on a regular basis, you know, doing m like simple maintenance activities or just, you know, kind of making the rounds getting rid of trees that have fallen down. So, there are eyes on the property and knowing where the locations are. There's there are people out keeping track of that. Same thing in the

state forest. uh Department of Conservation and Recreation has cultural resource people on their staff who regularly go out and inventory and and check up on on resources. So, I think that, you know, everybody's done a really, my personal opinion, and then I'll shut up and let other people answer. I think that everyone's done a really good job of balancing protection and preservation with allowing the

public to enjoy and used lands for not just recreation but also to appreciate the historic character of you doing a pretty good job of showing the eyes of this use of the land.

I think I would say so but again I'll let others comment as well.

Thank you.

Yes.

Have you done any surveys on p private residential properties that have bought the bio reserve?

I were any of those part of this like besides the trustes the reservations or certain every other property was on was on public land that there are a couple of those burial grounds it's a little bit tough to trace because they're not in use like the one Yeah. Yeah. But there were no actual um private you know and burial grounds are protected consideration would there be incentive

to the abing neighbors to include their properties in surveys if there's enough like the next you know yeah I mean I think if there are um there's not a lot of development that's right next you know abuing it so um but there's probably um especially because as with with um historical survey as time goes on like you kind of start as I mentioned like the the Watupa reservation history wasn't even considered like it was

relatively recent back in the 70s and 80s when people first started doing the surveys now that's you know oh it's over 100 years of history and we can kind of evaluate how important it was in the the overall scheme of things so again there's probably some newer um newer development newer meaning like early 20th century that could be surveyed um whereas before you know we were focusing

ing on 19th century houses. And so, um, there's there's probably a handful, but I don't think that because there isn't much development right around.

I'm I'm just curious because like I live on Cop Road and there are areas that are adjacent to my property that really are like part of the Hill.

Mhm.

Um, the timber mill that's that's beyond my property there, but on private land.

Yeah. Well, that that particular part, that timber mill is on private land.

Okay.

whether that site was included.

I think everything over there was the Yeah, there are leg legal implications when you start getting legal or or private property involved and and a Native American proposed sites, things of that nature. So, you have to threat very very cautiously. I appreciate that. uh and and what you're talking about might be in the future, but we don't know that at this point cuz we're we're trying to expand this and

and help the water department maintain this integrity. So, there are legal implications. I know you're being very kind and not going there, but thank you.

the I could just also add though MHC has their um their um inventory online where you can also see what's been what's been um documented on map and so in that I'm think that's what I'm picturing in my head is the um the dots that they've surveyed around there and you know it's there's a lot of coverage but there's there's probably gaps and Rick had a question I was two seasoned professionals like so you go

out there and you spent a lot of time over there in the years hiking running all the time. So you think it's great.

The whole area is fantastic. But uh as professionals, did you find are there any was there any maybe unexpected findings that you thought were really cool in or really exciting find? I know you can't be too specific things, but like what really turned you on? Like were there was it something like wow we didn't expect this or like this is super cool. Did you do you ever have any of those moments in this or was

a lot of it just sort of like what you would have expected?

Well, for again from the archaeology side of the house, um we're used to being the ones who have to go out and find the resource, you know, through tromping around in the woods or doing our map research. And here we had our list pulled out for us and more or less an X marks the spot saying, you know, go out to this spot or we're going to take you out to this spot. So, um, sometimes

like the thrill of discovery, I guess you would call it, was we didn't have that in this case, but, um, I I was very surprised by how well preserved some of the locations are. Um, and it's always it's always a cool thing to me when you have a map from the early 1800s that has a spot on it. I know there were land surveyors from much earlier, but you're able to go out and actually see, you

know, that that that house was right where right where the map says it would be and the barn is right where, you know, it shows up on the map. Um, and the the lane way that takes you there, you know, you can see the remnants of that. So, that that would be my that to me was the exciting thing. Um, I don't know about for you. for some of the the um other more interesting resources.

What was a little frustrating is we couldn't get more information about, you know, what what exactly they were used for. And thinking of the there was a stone lined um basin, a couple of those out there. And we we really don't know.

I mean, they're very professionally looking, you know, engineered and designed, but we don't have a lot of information about what the purpose was or what, you know, who was who was using it. So we maybe ended up with more questions than answers for a couple of them, but again like it's it's a starting point for for future research.

Get another question.

Oh, I have another question. um in your study and do we have tonight any of the Picassa tribal members that would be able to speak to the uh future cultural work that they want to do in the Wata area. So do we have anybody that would speak to that?

Hi Joyce, I don't see anybody here tonight. Okay, Mike, would you like to comment?

Um, that's still a little bit up in the air to tell you the truth. There, you know some through my eyes right through 20th century, 21st century, I guess, at this point. Um, you know, I I'll see things in the woods, you know, that that what Holly was mentioning that, you know, the joy of discovery. I'll see unexplainable things, for example, you know, and and they're mostly stone because that's

that's that's the material that endures.

Um, and you know, I'll I'll, you know, pinpoint it in my mind and go back to it perhaps later and have a look at it. But I think some of the things that we we'll want to look at for the second round are just looking at these and and and and getting trained, you know, uh folks with trained eyes to look at them and um you know maybe come closer to understanding what they

are. They could be uh they could be nothing, they could be something, they could be recent, they could be very very old. So those those are the kind of things that I'm that I'm looking forward to in the next round. And I also want to use that as a segue to to go back to Sarah's question. The second round is still a matter of I think um it isn't fixed in stone yet. So if there are

things that people might be aware of that perhaps we we want to consider um uh you know taking taking a further look at maybe adding to a survey. Um, this would be, you know, there'd be there'd be there'd be a few months before we actually put the final um put the final uh list together. So, um I and I and I also know the more I know, the more I

don't know. So, in any given moment, I think we got it all, but things things end up, you know, finding their way to us. Um, another point I'd like to mention, talk about um interesting things that came out of the study.

One of the one of the resources for the um for the for the rural cemeteries came from the the um the historic um Michael Martin, the historic society. And um there's they've got some very nice folders that were put together by some folks in the 1930s. And it seemed gee that was um that seems kind of uh that's not that long ago. And as we're here in the later part of the 2020s, it's almost

100 years. And so you open up those folders and you read these descriptions and and there were people out on the land looking at these old cemeteries making observations and you can so those folders are still available. You can look in them and then you can compare what you're seeing now to what was then and you realize that um these all of these resources have been protected in perpetuity. So in a sense we're we're

putting together a time capsule right now in 50 100 years from now I'd like to think that you know these things are still in still you know uh intact and are going to be a valuable resource and also between now and then um there'll be more attitude there'll be more information. Um, interestingly, a lot of the research that was done is sort of it's all it's all over the map. It's a

constellation of different resources.

But when you put them together, in the same way we've sort of um aggregated the buyers are aggregating all this information really helps to pull together a very unique um understanding of how these lands were were used back in the day. And uh I think we benefit from that. I think as as somebody mentioned being just being out there um and um being aware of that and um you know that contrast to today's busy life and

being out there and thinking about the fellow who used to mine stone and haul the stone into into the city for you know St. man's church or um you know there's a lot of connections between that rural area and what happened in the city and I mean every day to me it's a very enriching uh dimension to uh fall ribbon the time you spend out in the fire reserve and

then um the time you spend back in the city I I think you know I think we appreciate it now and I think as time goes on we will appreciate it even more yes Mike is Yes, Sarah.

Is there any intention of taking this information compiling it for a museum possibly at Aderonduct Farms or the headquarters?

Well, I I think the intention of Aderondac Farm is to be the the discovery center.

Um so whether so I I think there'll be a combination of some some some permanent more generic installations and then over time um you know maybe certain exhibits focusing on some aspect. You could there's probably a dozen different themes in this study right here where you could focus on this or that or the other thing. And so that would be the that would be the long range.

All right. Well, and there is a trail that's been developed in the bio reserve is approximately 20 miles, Mike, and it's well maintained by the Aderondac.

Appalachian Mountains.

Yeah. So they they've got that trail developed. That's a it's a great hike if you I have not done it all. I've done a pe few pieces of it. Probably Rick back there and uh have hiked quite a bit of that. They're they're always out there and probably Jim has also been out there many times. Again, all the more reason why we're going to attempt to get this listed in the U Mass Historic Register

and the National Historic Register. What that's going to do is help preserve this for future generations, you know, because there there is a lot of importance in doing that. Do you have any questions, Connie?

No.

Any more questions?

Just have a one comment. Um, in terms of the work that is being done uh at the national level and state level, the Picassids that I've met at Heritage State Park are very interested in getting recognized as a tribal group in the state of Massachusetts.

They're still working at this. So, I think the work that you've done right here is something that's going to motivate them to move ahead and get the um state representatives to move ahead in getting the Picassets recognized as a tribal location in the city of Fall River. They're still working at this and they've been um from what I understand they've been stymied a couple of times in terms of representation.

So um I suspect they're going to be very interested in hearing what the um survey has done.

Okay.

Caroline, do you have any questions?

Ryan, I do not.

Okay. Do we have any other questions from the audience?

Oh yes Mike.

I would just add I don't go anywhere without my trail map. So, there's a stack of trail maps uh in the lobby and if anyone's not familiar with the Byron Z haven't haven't seen this trail map, uh it's a very useful way to become acquainted with it. Thank you.

Okay.

Yes.

I have a question about the entire bio reserve which extends only not just in Fall River but also in neighboring towns and cities, city of New Bedford. Um what proportion of the entire bio reserve did you do? And also would you be able to do the some of the areas that are uh you've got the trustee area and also some areas owned by the state and how would these get funded?

Well, Jennifer, I would begin the answer by saying this is Fall River Community Preservation. So, we really restricted ourselves to the to the biology of the footprint of of the I know that I've heard it. Yeah.

Okay. So, so beyond that, it would kind of be up to those individuals or agencies or individual towns to to do something similar. I know the state Holly's Ming because because the state has done similar things on the state lands and also the trustees have as you know on Miller Farm.

Yeah. So, we pulled in information on archaeological resources that the trustees had gathered. Yeah.

Yes. As a member of the trustees, I knew that.

Gotcha. Yeah. And then the Mass Department of Conservation and Recreation hours.

They maintain an inventory of archaeological and historic resources that are on state lands. So, they periodically do their own surveys. I believe they're I believe they're currently doing some trail upgrade work and they're identifying historic resources that are within that project.

So, we share our information. and we've shared a copy of our report with the DCR and they've they've shared back with us their information about resources that overlap with the city's project. So I it's it's different groups probably gathering the information and then among the historic preservation community we we share that information with each other and our partners so that that

information gets you know crosses over sort of corporate and and other types of property boundaries.

Thank you.

Mhm. So, as this audience can see and as our future uh video and and visual audience is is perceiving at this point that this is going to take some time.

You know, this is not something that's done overnight. It's a it's a lot of effort by a lot of people and a number of groups, but it is it seems to be jelling more so now than ever before.

And that's really good sign. Yeah. We're we're kind of pleased.

Any other questions?

Okay, I guess we'll call this particular section of the meeting and adjourn. Um, we're going to start our our normal business meeting, historical commission business meeting in a moment. You're free to leave or stay and uh participate with us. It's entirely up to you. And I want to thank you very much.

Remember, take a map out there. They're very enlightening. Those maps are great maps. Okay. Could Could I have a motion uh on the floor to resume our meeting, our regular meeting?

I'll make a motion to uh to resume our meeting back at the minutes where we need.

Okay. Do I have a second?

Ryan has a second.

Okay.

All in favor?

All in favor? No objections?

No. Let's do it.

You want to take a roll call on that to take Connie Soul? Yes.

Joyce Rodri's member Carolyn Alen. Yes.

Ryan Klein. Yes.

And Rick Manseni. Yes.

Okay. Uh do we we do not have at the moment the minute meetings for September 30th nor October 21st. Uh could we get a motion to table that until our December meeting?

I'll move that.

All right. We have a motion by Ryan. Do we have a second?

I'll second.

We have a second by Carolyn. I hear no objections. Then that motion is accepted. We'll table this till our December meeting. Any citizens input?

No citizens input. We have no notices of demolition at all. That has not occurred.

There is uh one correspondence and I'll just be very very brief with that. Uh the United States Postal Service is going to repair the existing fixtures pole lighting around the postal service.

They've just given us notification historic commission to uh uh comment and and look at the uh the sightings. They have not been very definitive. Uh they will be getting us more information. as I get that I'll distribute it. But that is they they've noticed they sent us not notice of intention. They're going to what they're going to do uh is take the existing fixtures pre-cast and develop new fixtures identical in

kind structure and material as the existing structure and fixtures. So it it's just a replacement in essence.

Okay. Uh, I guess at this point, new business.

Uh, first on the agenda is 162 French Street. If you could just come forward, give us your name and address, please.

Good evening. My name is Manuel Fittata.

Talk right into the speaker so the audience and the viewing audience can hear please.

Not very good at it, but I'll That's all right. You're doing fine.

Good evening. My name is Manuel Fado from uh 162 French Street.

Okay.

And um looking to uh build the deck if it's possible.

Okay.

And I do have a plan.

Um and I would like to know if I can or cannot.

Okay. Uh we did get the drawings and they were all distributed. Uh the clerk didn't get that printed for us. So, I apologize. I didn't realize that that one wouldn't be printed, but everyone did see the drawings.

I got another one if you anybody wanted anybody wish to review.

Okay.

We have no questions.

No. Commissioner Soul, do you have any questions?

I do not.

Okay.

You saw the drawing?

I did not.

Oh, you did not?

I did not.

Do you want to see it?

Yeah, I'd love to see it.

Sure.

Thank you.

Those are the pictures that exist there.

Now, this is what exists.

Exist there.

Too many stairs.

I I one question about is this um cuz I I I couldn't exactly tell by the the drawings. Just it was my own fault. Um, is this going to be built in the same area as the existing porch?

Yes.

Okay. Okay. So, it is it's not No, it's not anything new.

To attach that one to make one cuz that one is built wrong because it's even with the door. There's no step.

When there's three or four inches of snow, the storm door doesn't open.

So, therefore, we have to do something about it. So since I'm going to do something about it, I would like to extend it to better uh pull more value into the place and better for the uh the tenant and um it will be better for uh for the future because I would like to put two parking spaces in that side. So keep the cars out of the street and that will be easier to go

in there with three steps versus the other side, seven steps.

Commissioner Ryan, do you have any questions?

Uh, not at this time.

Commissioner Soul, did you have a question?

I'm just curious about materials. I didn't know materials.

Uh, you you may do you want to?

All right. The materials I I took uh I talked to to Mr. photo and I've seen the project and uh we did mail all of these things out and I'm sorry that we don't have them get printed tonight. Uh but the materials are like in kind of the wisdom porch the there is porch there now. U it's going to be it it runs porch runs alongside the home. It's this is a

this is a 40C district home by the way.

I know that's why I'm asking.

Yeah. the the porch will be like in kind of material. It's only going to come out about maybe another six feet or so with the stairs reversing it. And oh, I saw that on there.

Yeah. And the stairs will not materials that I'm concerned about. The materials are like in kind which is what which is going to be a composite on the deck and the uh spindles are going to be pressuret treated uh lumber which is the same as what's on there now and it's on the front porch and painted.

You have that list.

Is that correct?

It's going to be painted, right? The pressure treated.

It's pressure treated right now.

Right. But it's going to be painted.

Yeah.

Will it be painted?

Painted? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Is it currently white?

I'm sorry.

The the the banisters and the spindles, are they white right now?

They're white right now. Yeah. Yes.

Would it exist there? Yes.

Yeah. They're also pressuret treated.

Pressure treated right now.

Yes.

The posts are going to have a cap composite cap on them. Yeah. Also, and that'll be white.

It says plastic or composite. It's going to be composite.

It's going to be a composite.

Okay.

The post the post will be cover the pressuret treated 4x4 will be covered with composite with the cap on it.

Correct.

But the rails if that's what you want. I rather have plastic but or composite.

But if it cannot be will be pressuret treated for spindles and it will whatever I have to do.

Does anyone have any objections to using a lyken kind has to stay with the same basic uh presence and standard using rather than pressuret treated lumber using a composite of material. Does anyone have any objections to that?

that we will be uh uh means free.

I would like to it will it but it has to remain like in kind in other words what you have there now.

Yeah.

When you replace you replace the composite material the same as the existing Yes.

spindles.

Yeah. So it's not plastic. It's going to be um it's going to be um pressuret treated painted. Correct. If that's what you want. Yes. I'd rather have plastic, but if that if you cannot do it, I will go uh pressuret treated.

I I mean I I'm not going to agree to plastic.

Okay.

Okay.

I I would say pressure treated painted because it's less expensive for you.

And the wheel, same thing. Yes.

Pressure treated like post uh composite with a cap.

The post composite. So it's paintable, not white plastic composite. Uh usually don't paint because it's like like a Yeah. The existing is uh the existing now is uh a a plastic cap on this front porch and they are white in nature.

Everything is white.

Yeah.

And that was done after the 40C.

Yes.

Okay.

Done. No, no. Done before?

No. The the the front porch I think is original prior to 14.

The front porch and the back porch also was done prior to

Okay. So, we we've got we've got the recommendation of the spindles being pressuret treated spindles painted.

Painted.

And that will that would have to take a year because you're going to be using new material. That material has to dry for at least correct to paint.

Painted.

That's definitely Yeah.

All right.

Any other concerns?

Now the handrails, you want it, are you recommending a composite or you want stable?

When you say composite, I'm thinking about paintable composits. That's what I'm referring to as we have in our design guidelines.

Okay.

So, I prefer to stick to the to the design guidelines.

Okay. So, a paintable composite and or a wood wood. Yeah. Either way.

All right. So, you have a choice, but it has to be a a paintable composite handrail.

Okay?

Or you could go into a pressuret treated wood handrail of the same same design as you presently have. See, the your home is in the 40C district.

Yep.

There are 48 of actually 49 because one of the properties have been separated since then. Okay.

And that falls under certain guidelines, right? What it does is it enhances the properties because they're maintained.

So the value is elevated of the property. So uh what we have to do is to meet the interior secretary of interior standards which is a national standard which is adopted by the state of Massachusetts and then we adopt it here in the city. Okay.

So we have to maintain certain standards.

Okay. So, so, uh, Commissioner Soul is correct in what she's requiring and asking for.

Okay. So, uh, as long as we have that understanding, I I would like Mr. Fittado, who's doing the work?

I'm going to do the work.

Oh, you're going to do?

Yeah. Okay.

I want to do it uh the way I like it.

Okay.

Yeah. I so so we so I understand we only talking about the railing and uh the spindles and uh about the decking uh track. Okay.

TX is yes that's acceptable in our standards. tracks is acceptable, but it again it has to be a trucks that meets the uh look and design of the wood deck.

Yeah, it's got the imitation of the the wood like maple veins and yeah, that would be tracks. That's what I'm I'm thinking do because it lasts a lot longer than um uh 1x six is uh pressuret treated because it curls up and uh splinters.

Oh, Mr. Fittado, don't get me wrong, I don't like pressuret treated, but if I have to choose between plastic or wood, I'm going to say pressuret treated as long as it gets painted so you don't see it and it's Yeah, but I agree. Pressuret treated wood is misleading and it it warps.

Yeah. and splinters and kids could get splinters on it.

Yes.

Okay. Do I hear a motion in favor of or opposed?

I'll make a motion to uh as long as the details are in the motion regarding uh the materials used that it would be either wood or paintable composite.

Okay.

Either or.

Okay, I have to motion.

You second that motion. So, we're fully aware of the requirements.

Okay, good.

All right.

Does he have a booklet? The um design guidelines. Uh I don't believe it's on the website.

It's on That's true.

It's on our website.

Yep.

We we delivered We had them delivered to every homeowner. How long have you been there Mr.

I got guessing about 18 years old.

So you might have gotten something in the mail, a booklet from the city of Fall River and it had like all the materials and no you know guidelines.

No, I uh No, I uh even if I did I don't remember the age thing, you know.

That's okay. Well, his address is 152, which is not in the district.

162 162 62. No, that's the home on French Street.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But you don't live there.

No, I don't.

You live at one 170.

170.

Back out.

High street.

Yeah. Or spend more the most time there.

Yeah. So, it might not have gotten.

All right. So, I have a motion. I have a second.

Take a roll call.

Okay. Connie Soul, yes.

Joyce Rodri, yes.

Caroline Alen, yes.

Ryan Klein, yes.

And Rick Manceni, yes. Okay.

Congratulations and thank you for presenting and just stay with those standards and they'll not be an issue.

Thank you very much.

If you have questions, call him.

Yes, I'll call him.

I know him. We met.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

Okay, next on the agenda would be um Reverend Hornsby for St. Luke's.

St. Luke's is looking for a letter of support. They've made an application or they're about to make an application with the CPC.

Yes.

And it's for repointing.

And again, I believe we sent out I sent out the Yes, I saw this.

Yeah.

Yes. It's also for other we wish that we're essentially starting our application process and we start with you and we're looking for help in your letter u to with what I think is a $250,000 job of at least the first part is 150 and estimate is the test and we're looking to raise money from CPC and also private donors in other places and we want your statement of support. I could go on for

an hour but I won't.

You don't need to. Would would you explain uh Reverend Hansby what's being done to the tower or what you require?

Uh the we plan to repoint the tower phase one at about $150,000 and we hope then to do the the nave of the church which is the main building you sit in um which is a lesser cost. If we're really fortunate with a combination of loans, grants and fundraising will do the whole thing.

Okay. But the activity that's going to transpire on the building because it is a historic building on the National Register. Is that going to be just the repointing that's that you're looking at?

Well, there's probably a little more.

Um, we've got this flashing that kind of that kind of thing.

Uh, I had an estimate which would lay it out more clearly, but basically what we want to do, we have a bed leak from a crack probably caused by vibrations from a church belt which is too big.

Um, and it is spread and we're getting water damage inside. And we're hoping to repoint that first and fix the crack and flashing. And uh I'm not a mason. Uh who is your mason that's going to be doing the work?

We have not hired a mason. We have two bids. We're probably going to uh spending spend a while re uh raising money and then we'll probably need to rebid. But that's that's okay.

So the work entailed is going to be repointing and just reflashing and generally uh all of the work is on the exterior.

All the work is on the exterior and we but we're trying to comply with the historical architect and um masons who are familiar with uh how to do it historically.

Okay, that that that's good. That's and the the structure is Fall River granite.

U it's been identified by one of the masons.

Uh it was built in 1897. Okay. So, so in the letter that we sent the letter of support if if it's voted upon tonight, uh will state that you will stay with the provisions of the interior of secretary standards.

I stay with the provisions of the exterior of the interior the secretary of interior standards. Those are the historic guidelines.

Fine. Historic. That's Yes. We we plan to do that.

Sure. Okay.

Yeah. We're not going to change it.

No, we're not going to put any any plastic in to Well, I'll make a motion to um provide a letter of support u for the CPC and whatever other entities you're trying to uh get support from.

Okay, we have a motion to support. Do we have a second?

I'll second that.

And M Commissioner Rodri has a second.

Let's take a vote on that. Connie Soul, yes.

Joyce, yes.

Caroline Oen, yes.

Ryan Klein, yes.

And Rick Mancini, yes.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for presenting and within a few days, we'll get a letter out to you, Re.

Thank you.

And have a good Thanksgiving.

Uh, next on the agenda would be in rotation would be recreation.

And they did print your packet.

Nice.

Hi everyone. My name is Grace Gerling.

I'm the uh executive director of Greater Fall River Recreation. Uh we're looking to install uh replace 67 windows at the old second district courthouse. Uh we've owned the facility for 10 years and we've uh we have done uh numerous uh repairs and renovations throughout these 10 years. Um we installed uh a sprinkler system. Uh new HVAC uh system in the 1908 um building cuz we have two separate

buildings that are connected. um new roofs, uh a boiler system that uh was funded through the um CPC uh years ago.

Um we have had support in the past from um the historical commission uh for uh projects that were funded through the CPC. Um the windows that we are installing, I do have two um two quotes. uh one being from uh Somerset Glass uh who's done this type of work for many years and um they guarantee that they will be following uh the secretary uh of interior standards uh when they are replacing the windows and that's what

we've required for from any of the quotes. I'm actually waiting for another uh quote from another company. Fingers crossed that I do get it. It's very difficult to get um these quotes. Uh I guess many places are looking for windows. Uh and uh so um my my hopes that we will get a third quote.

Okay. And the windows will be similar to the cuts that you supplied to us.

Yes. Yep.

Yep.

Okay.

My only question is um I see that you're going brown. Is there a reason brown and not black? Um well the just curious.

So the the which one the which one? Cuz well I see so the 1970 building those windows are brown on the outside. The others are not.

Mhm.

So it had I don't know it must have been painted over the years the trim. Um, I mean, we've been only been there 10 years. So, whatever we when when we moved in, that's what we got. So, um, and the the people that owned it prior to us, the placements of Brown, right? That's what I Yeah, I mean, I haven't picked out I mean, we've gotten two quotes, but um,

uh, I got I was a able to send Mr. Man um the Mancini.

Yeah, Mr. Mancini, I'm sorry. Um, that information that he requested from me, which is what we have back.

Uh, but all of the windows will will be the same color.

Correct.

It will not be Oh, no, no, no. No mix and match, right?

Everything will be unified and the mullions will all then match also if they're a distinct color. if if the window is I don't know if these these when they're constructed if they're going to be fitted in completely or you know or a whole new mullion involved.

So if it's a black mullion and you're putting a brown window in there you're going to repaint.

We will do whatever is required in these standards to install those windows.

Perfect answer. That's how we're going to go about it.

We're not We're not gonna, you know, uh what's the word?

I I can't think.

Yeah. I don't know.

It's been a little bit.

Yeah, that's right.

Well, if there isn't any more questions, I'm ready to make a motion.

Just one question. Are you putting security on gates on some of them? I know some of the images have like a I don't think we need them. Um they were there because of it was a courthouse.

Okay.

Um we're we're a community center. Uh we have all nonprofits in in the in the in the building. Um so I I don't foresee we need bars anymore. I'd like to take it out and make it look a little more homey. That's put it back to its original construction.

Yeah.

Good job.

Any other questions from the commissioners?

Well, I'll make a motion to give a letter of support for the windows.

Okay, we have a motion in favor.

I'll second the motion.

And we have a second by Commissioner Klene. Let's take a roll call.

Connie Soul, yes.

Joyce Rogers, yes.

Caroline Alen, yes.

Ryan Klein, yes.

And Rick Manceni, yes. Congratulations.

Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

Welcome. Thank you for waiting. Hope you enjoyed the presentation this evening.

Yeah, it was very interesting. I've actually ran those trails. It's very beautiful down there.

Certainly is. Yeah. Well, have a nice Thanksgiving and thank you for presenting.

Thank you.

And next is Eagle's Restaurant and Event Center.

Hello.

Save the best for last.

Best to last. Huh?

The pride of the city. The gym.

Okay. from the last of the 30s.

Hey, Christopher Donovan, 132 Albian Street, Fall River, Massachusetts.

Hello everybody.

I'm seeking approval for the next step on the CPC grant for the historical letter.

Did you everybody get the email?

Yes.

So, as you see in that picture, I'm going to As you know how I love the historic value of everything around here.

Mhm. So these windows are all starting to deteriorate on the outsides and their original windows on that whole second level. So all your grout's all removed.

It's all So Somerset Glass the only one that wants to do anything with me.

Everybody told me I'm crazy. I'm nuts, but I don't care. So that whole second, we got to pull every single window out on that first level and bring them to his shop. We're going to scrape everyone, revarnishing it, repaint, and outside's going to get refinished. Then underneath every single window, we're going to bring back those little boxes.

And in 1930 when the Chinese put that in, those those grates weren't there.

Mhm.

So, we're going to bring back exactly those boxes exactly how they are.

They're all like cuz there's tons of them that are rotten cuz all when the trees were there, they were hitting this the building and all the squirrels were going in. So, that's why they did it.

So, there's no more trees no more. So, all the squirrel nests will be removed.

And then on a third level, if you look, Matt got me the exact replicas of those windows upstairs from Somerset Glass White. Obviously white cuz we're going to go exact day in 1929. I have all the colors. I have some old chots that they used that day and how it was in the interior. You can't replace those that second level because they're all oak finished. So every company was just wanted to take

them out and throw them in. And I was like, uh, I be sick to my stomach over that one.

So that's And then the second level on the the second level of windows we needed to lift. We're going to scrape those right on site.

Oh, okay.

Cuz they can't come out cuz they're solid in.

But those other ones have the brass screws. When we get that brass all color shined again, so they're going to look exactly like they did in 1930 day we opened.

That's awesome.

That's right.

And that's my passion project. And I don't know I'm a little but the it's just I couldn't just thought it myself.

You got a love of passion, huh?

Well, the Chinese have faith in me above Mr. Kuang, the original owner.

So, I got and above the if we're going to be also putting a little thing for the origination of the whole eagle on that top level. We went for the grant for an elevator. So, we're getting that next season.

So, then we'll be able to bring them in the schools to show the kids, walk them around, show the artifacts and what we had in 1930s.

Okay.

And bring it all back. So, it's a lost thing, but we're going to bring it back.

Good.

And we offer more once we get that we can be public. We've been non-public just because of that elevator situation, which we want everybody to see. So, we will not be segregating nobody anymore.

It'll be 8800% fully ready to go after next year. from that pot. And I'll probably have to come back for something with that for you guys for that once we get that one.

Okay.

When I get the plans and prints so we can historically put it the right way.

Okay.

It's nice to know that some glass is willing to take windows out.

Only one.

There are others that I'm Well, they won't let me take them out.

They won't take They want to destroy them. Throw them out.

They just want to remove.

I just had my windows removed this yesterday. today from my house that are being restored.

They who they somebody did that to somebody's doing it.

Mhm.

But everybody cuz it's such a monsters they don't have the space to lay them all out I guess.

Yeah.

So he's going to bring them all to the shop. He's going to scrape everyone whatever glasses they're popping them out. And then the side if the side street they're different kind of windows. So those going to get back to the exact replica too of Yeah.

That's awesome.

I want to make you proud everybody. All right. Well, what what assist in us here just that letter I guess to get to the next level of the CPC grant, right? And what will assist us in getting a letter of support to you is we love to hear that particularly where it gets video recorded that you intend to maintain the interior secretary of interior standards when you're repairing the windows and the building.

So, 100%. Is is is that your comment? Yes, of course.

I want to restore it exactly the way it should be for the interior design.

Okay. And that's that's magic words.

Are there any other questions?

Just have a question about the third floor.

That appears to be vacant. Is that right?

Yes. Till we get an elevator.

They w the fire department suggest we worked with the fire department when we first got the building not to use that third floor for safety prop because it and it wasn't ADA acceptable and they they asked us to shut it down. Once we get the elevator then that's going to be the whole museum.

Okay.

The whole history of the eagle museum and a fire of the downtown would destroy the first eagle which was on the corner of North Main.

Good idea. I have to tell you, my mother's wedding reception was there in 1939.

And I'm going to need a photo if you have one.

So, I I don't know if that disqualifies me, but uh it's a it's always been a sentimental thing.

And she was with the Chinese, Mr. Kuang.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

They're special to me. And I don't even know them as we've had it for over 15 years now. And the funniest part is going in the attic and finding the little knick-knacks from in 1930 Chinese immigration act affected them coming back and forth. So the Chinese had a dormatory which is in the back of the eagle. One day I'll show it to her is they had all their stargazing magazines and their microscopes cuz they're very

so they made them a a window of the top so they could use their microscope um their telescopes to hit stars. So when I'm searching it, I found the suitcases of all the boys that live there. I found the 1952 stargazing magazines. I got all their microscopes. I got their clothing.

And I got that's what I started saying.

I'm going to make the museum. We need to give it back to them. I got their laundry bags with their names on it. M.

Moy was one of their sons, Mr. Moy. So that's I got Moyes Moy Tong's laundry bag, which I That's cool.

And I got his bow ties from the the weight staff. And it was all men. no woman. And they couldn't go onto the floor. They could only come through the kitchen, through the dormatory down through the kitchen into the floor because it was so elegant. I guess in the 30s, nobody with under underass could go there. It was amazing.

There some more stories to be bringing up.

It's very cool.

Sorry you took your time.

No, no, no. Appreciate that.

And one day that sign will go back up. I promise you all. That one right there.

That's my goal in life. Okay.

Well, just as a suggestion, when this is done, do an open house or something.

I definitely will.

I'd like to see more business at the at the Eagle.

Well, we're at a thousand parties in 15 years because of the private. We've really worked hard to get that the ADA grant for underutilized historic building. My sister went and worked hard for that. And that's like you said, we just got accepted in Boston. We she went and now that's coming through. So once we did, everybody's going to be coming through and we're going to throw the Eagle it 100th birthday party

cuz in in 2030 it's 100 years old.

There you go. That's awesome.

And they built it in 18 months. Imagine that.

From the fire cuz they own the whole corner. They own the second floor in a corner.

Yeah.

I'll email so you can share pictures.

It's pretty wild the research I've done.

Yeah. It would be interesting.

It's a like I said, it's a lost past. We really don't know yet of be interesting. Yep.

Commissioner Open, do you have any questions? Commissioner Ryan, do we have a motion to accept or reject?

I make a motion to accept and give a letter of support for the CPC.

Okay.

Second.

Okay. Do we have a roll call?

Uh Connie Soul, yes.

Joyce Rodri, yes.

Caroline Aubin, yes. Ryan Klein. Yes.

And Rick Mancini. Yes.

Okay.

Awesome.

And thank you for all your passion in the city and all your family's done for us.

Thank you.

Thank you so much. Have a pleasant holiday.

All right. Uh register of significant structures. We have no uh new buildings to put on at this point. Um and we see old business. We went through item number one. Uh item number two is the Highlands local uh local historic district upgrade. Uh that also is being conducted by the public archaeology laboratories. It's it's not Holly or Laura. It's another team, but they they do reports to them.

Um and uh Joyce was kind enough to print these out and put them in a folder. So you can put that uh be become more impressed with it. It's every day that this proceeds. The uh the uh uh I guess the PAL folks uh getting ready to come back at this point. They've got about 30% of the district to complete. Uh they sent us a a a quick memo uh just telling

us that they're preparing again and that uh they will notify us when they're going to be here. Uh when they do and I get that memo, I'll send it out again so you'll know that they're in the area on such and such a date. If you have time, you can get out. They walk around with a with their yellow safety vest so they're easy to find when they're on the streets.

Okay. Any other questions or concerns?

Just another old business. I did attend the auction uh for Temple Bethl on November 6.

the um event did not really happen because uh developers, realtors um were still in the building. So the search for someone to buy the property uh has not been concluded and they were not able to move forward on that on the 6th of November. Um, so I imagine that's going to be rescheduled, but I also think the holidays are coming in. That's another effort probably to delay and I don't think developers are going to be

shopping around uh during November and December, but that's just my thought.

Uh, so no results from that uh auction.

Okay. Thank you. Thank you for the update.

No further questions. Do I have a um I do have info on that local uh number two on old business.

Okay.

Uh so December 3rd, is that what you just said? That PL completes the field survey.

Did you know that? I didn't know that.

Well, I is that's kind of tentative, is it not?

I'm just Well, I did send out Yeah, I sent out some information. And then December 19th, um, PLA provides updated list of properties to receive the draft inventory forms for our review.

Okay. Then January 30th, PAL provides drafts of inventory forms and MHC's preliminary study report for our review.

You have all that? Yeah. Do you want me to go on?

No, it Yes, we do. You You should have that also. Yes. So week of February 2nd suggested team check-in meeting to discuss drafts and in early March team returns comments to PL and then in April is the approximate com completion of the final work.

Right.

Okay.

Thank you for that update.

Hey, no problem.

Yeah, that's what I'm here for.

Good job. Any other comments? Any other old business?

Nope.

Do I have a motion to adjurnn? I'll make a motion to adjurnn.

Do I have a second?

I'll second.

Okay. And I hear no opposition.

Connie Soul, yes.

Joyce, yes. Joyce, yes.

Carolyn Alen, yes.

Ryan Klein, yes.

And Rick Mancini, yes. Meeting is declared adjourned.