2.18.2025 City Council - Health and Environmental Affairs

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m good afternoon this is the city council committee on health and environmental affairs for February 18th at 5 o'clock here at Government Center clerk will call the role please here vice president here chair proposal here pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium attendees are

therefore advised that such recordings or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or unperceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible item number one on our agenda citizens input which we do not have any this evening so we'll move on to item number two it's the approval of the minutes for the January 20 a 2025 meeting Mo motion to approve second motion to approve made by vice president

Pera second by Council Dion all in favor I any opposed the eyes have it item number three tonight is our resolution to convene with the city administrator administrator of community utilities the director of community maintenance and any concerned citizens to seek ways to reduce or stop activities that negatively affect the environment of the copicut neighborhood this was adopted

128 2025 the resolution filed by myself reads as follow follow whereas members of the copicut neighborhood have expressed concerns about the amount of litter illegal dumping and other activities are negatively impacting the neighborhood and whereas these activities pose a threat to the copicut weserv and the surrounding areas now therefore be it resolved that the committee on health environmental

Affairs convene with concerned citizens the city administrator the administrator of community utilities and the director of community maintenance to seek ways to to reduce or stop these activities that negatively affect the environment of the community that is this part of that resolution for tonight public book safety will meet on the second part of it at a later date so we'll invite our invitees down if we

could if everyone wants to come down to the table please four chairs four people perfect thank you very

well okay we're going to have everybody introduce themselves we'll start start ladies first please Sarah Riley um 1679 koput Road thank you Michael excuse me Michael Laos here I live in uh 32 pen broke Drive in Dartmouth but I work on a 2929 Blossom Road in Fall River and your title I'm the Forester for the city's water sh thank you and I have these I always forget if people have these

uh the maps trail maps of the of the reservation and the surrounding bio Reserve never have enough they're good maps now Seth Aken City administrator one government center Al oliv our director City operations representing um the uh DCM director excellent thank you all for being here so we'll we'll discuss first the concerns that brought us to today um just to speed everybody up we had a discussion about the

National Grid project that we've we've moved on with and now we're talking about some of the concerns that you brought up in those conversations and this is now the avenue to discuss those concerns and how we as a city can address them so uh Miss Riley I'm going to turn to you first so you can address your concerns and then we'll kind of go around the table to discuss how we can

look at mediating or working on some of those issues floor is yours um well i' just like to say I'm not a policy maker I'm just a volunteer um I clean up garbage I chase off the dumpers I coordinate with my epos I collect more garbage um I communicate with Mike quite a bit and he's a great resource for me coming and cleaning up the garbage that I've collected from the reservoir and the surrounding Woods

um the garbage guys are fantastic because they often take the Overflow um I'll just keep doing what I'm doing I don't know what more to suggest um or do that I haven't done in suggest when you talk about I'm going to ask you some questions so we can just get a bigger picture of this when you talk about collecting garbage in the woods what are you what are you seeing that you're collecting oh um well the

bigger things um everything the you know the water department comes to get I mean there are mattresses that are dumped on the side of the road um truckloads of garbage with toilets in them and plumbing supplies and construction debris and um you know the the bigger dumpl loads are typically construction debris but I I collect litter at the um fishing spots and um along the trails along the um Reservoir that have been

clearcut um I pick fishing bobbers out of the trees I pull um tires out of the mud and there's really no limit to what to what I'm clearing I mean there sometimes there are even like um people will bury their dead animals on the side of the road and shallow Graves adjacent to the water this you know diapers in the parking lot you know a foot away from the water there's lots

of different you'd be surprised lead sinkers that they're not supposed to be using lead sinkers is a lot um I've even had a ammunition that I've pulled out of the water okay Mr laasia is fishing allowed in that area yes it is it's been allowed since 2009 and that was allowed by whom is that an ordinance or is that just bio Reserve rules well just I I lack the understanding of it so I was just

curious um so it's um there were terms when the bio Reserve was created in uh 2002 uh there would be conservation restrictions there would be certain Public Access and it was one of the u u benefits that uh the bio Reserve created that the city in in in exchange for certain things um would allow fishing in the nor in the uh Copa Reservoir okay and who who manages who manages or oversees the fishing that

happens in that Reservoir who does it fall under technically yeah um well fishing falls under the division of fish and WL actually um they set the rules they set the season um they they have oversight and you know fishing Wildlife has environmental police state State Environmental police okay thank you m Riley anything else you want to add um I'm I'm building the list so I'm just I

know the mass epos are um quite busy individuals we don't see them quite as often I I mean at least as far as I'm I'm concerned as a fall rubber resident I coordinate with my fall rubber environment mental police first and foremost I only reach out to Mass wildlife if I found like a dead or injured Eagle in the water or something like that okay but generally speaking when it comes to the trash you're seeing

and the other items it's mainly communication with our epos in the city well yeah because it's it's City territory it's I don't I mean if it were over the line in the um um in the State Forest I would call in mass mass D but okay and I know the and I don't want to speak for you but I I want give you the opportunity to talk about your concern about the lack of epos in the

city so I again I don't want to you've spoken about it before the police department has done a really good job of Staggering the um the shifts so now we have coverage in two different shifts um you know we have first shift which um Billy madus typically takes and um Nelson br will take the second shift so so that's actually helped because it's created some police presence where there

um typic typically hasn't been police presence um I mean we don't have a third shift that's you know it's debatable whether or not that you know I mean people aren't fishing at you know 3:00 in the morning um you know there fair amount of illegal activities at those points in time of the day but um it's it's not my job to tell the police department how to manage their job and

do you do you find that majority of your concerns are during the the day per se or do you there's a lot of activity at night on the weekends Thursday night Friday night Saturday night there's lots of you know off-road vehicle use and illegal use and of the power lines I mean people shoot um Fireworks off and shoot guns and typically the residents often times won't even call if you know if there's only one or two

shots because we know by the time um the um the officers get into the area they already long since driven off cuz it's about a 25 minute drive from the city proper so car one would take even longer because they're in the north part of the city okay and when you say shooting off guns recreationally or just well I mean it would be illegal at that point at that point but but just we're not

talking about the gun range we're not hunting we're not we're just no no I mean even at night hunting is not permitted at night so I mean typically it's kids well I mean I presume it's kidss or whatever to go out yeah we're not sure go yeah I don't go out yeah I chase off dumpers but I I stay away from that territory unless I'm calling in fair enough Mr laas again up to you

hunting what is the regulations on that same as fishing or they're also set by the Mass fishing Wildlife okay and they've been allowed since the same time period or yes well so don't forget the state forest was established in the 1930s um so north of the wer reservation has been there's been hunting you know legal legal hunting on public lands when the bio Reserve happened an additional 3200 Acres of Fall River um

became part of this bio reserve and hunting is allowed on those acres plus hunting is now allowed on the wupper reservation but the hunting and the fishing really aren't the aren't problems per se because they're they're regulated by the state and for the most part hunters and fishermen are good Sportsmen I think the the problem with the litter trash thing that's that's sort of a ubiquitous problem a societal

problem and in particular a rural uh you know a rural Countryside kind of problem which you know on the one hand far is blessed to have this beautiful part of the city that is rural and Countryside and out of the way and gets dark at night and it attracts that kind of use so you know unfortunately there there are some weeks where my crew may be spending 20% or more of their time just

picking up after those lobs I'll be honest I mean that's that's what it is and I give you guys the fair amount of work too but it's but it's there I mean you're not producing the work you you know you might be and I want to say Sarah's been a rock star out there I mean there there are very few you know folks that are as determined and passionate and you know Sarah is eyes

and ears out there she does she rolls up her sleeves she she really gets involved with uh doing a lot of that uh you know roadside you know kind of pick up um the other thing I'll mention if if you'd end uh um BL um you just just indulge me thank you good great word um so think about this so in 1960 okay that whole land was pristine and hardly populated in

1960 um the uh the power line was built and that sort of opened up a swath of land which allowed uh access to some off the beaten path areas 1970 we built the reservoir so between 196 in 1970 um more people were discovering that area they they they could get on the power line they could get access after 1970 before 1970 that that was Farmland there was a beautiful um stream that

went through there was the was the copicut river and it was actually a a brook trout fishery it was a cold water Springfed uh fishery it was a gorgeous uh and out of thee way area the water quality is is Fant fantastic um it's you know the the water has a kind of a a a like sort of a orange or brownish tint from the iron that's actually coming out

of the swamp but it's not pollution it's just a it's just coloration um but the but the water quality is great and and the the litter some of the some of the um uh materials that Sarah has pulled out come from that period of time when just before the reservoir was filled there was sand gravel taken out of there so you know people would go out there and and I've seen some of the tires that

she's dug up that's Legacy trash that that's not something that's continuing to um to be dumped she's pulling she's going deeper than I think you know people have known and seen and she's pulling out things from you know 50 years ago the 1960s actually recently yeah yeah so um just a comment about about you know perspective and um the the litter itself is not polluting the water it it's it's unsightly it's it's

it's it's not fun to live in an area where you know you're driving to work the next morning and you know this the roadsides might be lited with beer cans and and McDonald's rappers but that's I mean I don't know what part of for River doesn't get affected by that right okay I I I would like to say that there are some neighbors on the other side of the reservation closer to the Blossom Road

area that have had troubles with the um I just would like to speak for them for just a moment um um but um you know that may be a different matter pertaining to a different subcommittee I I don't know yeah so so I think it's it's and that's why this resolution was filed kind of split it off a little bit um you know in in relate in relation to hunting as far as an activity legal

legal that would be the public safety which they'll pick up um but on the environmental Affairs situation are there any situations you see where the hunting is causing an environmental hazard um I mean I do see people that dump carcasses afterwards I typically don't have a problem with it unless they dump them in the plastic bags fair enough but I don't do bit dead bodies yeah that's that's fair clear

clean up tires but I stay away from that that's fair um so let's turn to the city Administration um Mr olera I think this can go to you um what has the department done to try to mediate some of these littering trash issues out in the Copa cut well I mean Mr bosire his group does a a considerable amount of cleanup if there's any large items we will get involved with but for the majority of

the time they they have the crew that will take care of that okay so so DCM has gone out to assist with the larger items if need be okay and I'm assuming you've heard from Miss Riley before about some of these larger issues I haven't I'll I would just Mike usually I coordinate with Mike oh fair enough all right Mr RI I don't know if you want to add anything to this point um with

regard to environment of police officers uh so the city does currently have two as you know uh one's on a night shift one's on a day shift uh which I'm glad that Chief did that uh following uh the last time we had this conversation full Council councelor Dion um had some thoughts about maybe how to repopulate the environmental police so it's a conversation I've had with the chief

uh recently and I can report that there is an environmental police officer in the academy right now so that'll be a third uh and then there are two scheduled to go to the academy in April uh so that'll bring us up to five um which would be the full complement of what is right now um set up for um the follower PD and given the the duties of those police officers to have five would actually be

pretty darn good and be better than we've had in many many years um and so to me that's a that's a place I'd like to get to and then gauge kind of where we are and the degree to which that is mitigating some of the ongoing issues uh and if it's not sufficiently addressing the issues then we can reevaluate and see if there's other things to be done

um but to to expect to have five um by the summer uh is actually really good progress it is and I applaud the police ch Chief uh exclusively for that it's not my doing agreed um I I would also like to say that we I did coordinate with National Grid and got them to agree to flly cameras so um I don't know when those are forthcoming um I mean I I was

hoping that National Grid could um possibly supplement the environmental policing overtime budget so that they could monitor those cameras because they already have the you know responsibilities that the police chief and the police department sets for them so um I don't know how much um extra work that would offer them um or provide them that um that they would have to also monitor those cameras once they're

installed okay Mr laasia do we have is there any cameras in the Copa currently in the in the reservation monitoring activity there are there are okay I don't need to know where I'm just curious if they exist so that's good but in this particular area we currently lack is that my understanding is that a correct statement yeah you're saying where the cameras are no no no well that would be half the

reason why we're having this discussion so fair enough there can always there can always be more there's room for room for improvement I think I think the big concern is if we're clear cutting 500 ft along the reservoir it opens up more Public Access and so we're going to have more of the littering more of the use more of The Dumping more of the activity legal and otherwise so um you know I've

been clean up garbage as long as I've been there which is 19 years um this is it's not it's not um new news this is garbage from 2009 2010 2011 2012 I mean it's been prolific for quite a few as long as I've been there and we keep on working at um trying to pluck away at it and make a difference but um opening up a large portion to create essentially

what would be a a shore on our drinking water supply is the concern in my mind okay all right I'll turn to my colleagues uh councilor Dion so whatever a number of cameras we have at the present time and wherever they may be located um there are going to be additional cameras that National Grid has agreed to and signed on um from what I understand they signed paperwork with the police department saying that

yes they were going to do it and they're going to follow through with it so I don't think they're going to back out on that um because we couldn't force them to sign anything but they did sign with the police department so um how how often do the does the state fish and wildlife U monitor the area anybody I don't know that I want to speak for them I see them drive through but yeah they

don't report to me or to the city okay so so let me ask this then does anybody see them in the area occasionally yeah occasionally but they I mean they have a lot they have a lot of areas they have a lot of responsibility y um how long has the police presence been there that you're you're speaking of you say now you have the first shift the second shift the environmental policing as long as no no

the regular police didn't you say um like well as far as car1 Etc and they come in when um the police have called if the environmental police are not on but they typically don't um patrol those areas I mean that's really the job of the environmental police so if we don't have epos on we don't typically have police presence but car I believe it's car one that will respond when the police are called for

whatever concern yeah and you're right A lot of it is the Environmental police however every neighborhood is patrolled by regular police as well and you live in a neighborhood so you wonder how often that they happen to be out there and driving around um um may I have another Resident stepman say something briefly sure are you a city resident ma'am yeah um I was a past resident of the of 1679

okay that's what I I wanted to ask come on now can you just identify yourself please um Laura Davis um past resident of 1679 copaa I'm living in Connecticut state right now welcome um I'm a family member in fact and um I've witnessed a lot of I'll say motion to wave the rules second yeah that's why I asked the question yeah continue thank you um in fact I just wanted to cue Sarah um

because there there are multiple incident ents that happen often late in the night that are strictly police response things that are not really scope for um you know the environmental police when they're on call then they will respond to certain things like um rape cases or lost citizens or these types of things but there are certain more urgent cases that are late night responses that um and they're they're

always in in close contact I mean sometimes Sarah is even going out and assisting with lost missing people searches in the night time and or kids that are you know got lost and the four-wheelers way out in the you know in a really cold time or something like that yeah the residents will often times coordinate in order to make sure that the police know um you know and how to identify where people are in terms of

the remote parts of the forest when there's problems now when you say you you mentioned Thursday Friday Saturday nights at night what hour are we speaking oh all night long really I mean there are areas there are lots out in the um State Forest that are over the state forest line that have massive bonfires and lots of you know partying and such like that you can hear them through the woods

but the end of the road is a regular spot for people to park and keep their lights on and generally hang out until around 11: 12 sometimes 1:00 in the morning they're often late late night parties as well but and this is the end of copot road yeah so that should be something that could be addressed um okay with that all you for now I I don't know that the uniform cars can

make it up copicut roads so as far as like where where people are mostly congregating it's it's really not um I mean the police department don't they don't have the vehicles to to do that kind of off-road activity and just to clarify is this past the point where the last house is on copaa and to the oh yeah they go pretty deep they go deeper than gas power lines okay there's really

no limit so we're talking about people who are essentially trespassing on on these lands they shouldn't be um gee I don't it's rhetorical question it's fine I'm just speaking out loud count vice president Pur I I have a couple of questions first of all the roads what are we doing with the roads up there I know the roads I mean just to hear Sarah I had put roads here talking about the

fact that you know police can't get there because we don't have the vehicles do you have the vehicles Mr lassi do you have other vehicles up there that could Traverse that smooth road so I well is that a trick question so so so the res you know the the roads leading to the residences you know there there isn't a residence that you know you can't get to by an asphalt road but

once the residences sort of stop correct the roads that are trap to 90 roads that keep going are they they gradually get you know they become gravel roads they become deteriorated even beyond that um in 2011 um we actually uh proposed an idea of gating off some of those roads and the neighbors were adamant that that was not a good idea um so that never that never uh came to pass not a good idea if

there's a fire and we need to get in there they wouldn't be able to but you don't have an TV or something that could oh well that was the question yeah so we have we have a couple of off-road vehicles that could get Beyond onto the difficult roads so do we share with other departments I know that sometimes we have difficulty sharing both those actually other departments have the same

you know but if the police officer went up there car one goes up there and wants to see where this partying is going on and certainly they shouldn't be lighting fires there that is a hazard um well that happens all the time though or drinking after hours or drinking underage whatever but we can't get a vehicle to get up there is there a way that you would coordinate with the police department or somebody would

coordinate with the police department that if they had to go up there that there's a vehicle that they can jump into to get up there not currently pardon not currently not currently but could that be something that's done Sarah um you have a vehicle we can use right no I do have neighbors that offer their vehicles on a regular basis for search and rescues but um I would like

to say that one of the things that I was trying to coordinate with the efsb um is is to let them know the limitations of um our vehicles for our epos um and I and I was advocating for National Grid to um pay for I think the total was $997,000 worth of police vehicles um we were looking for a side by side fully equipped for epos as well as um off-road

vehicle truck that they could access the more remote areas the problem is is that um you know the city as the as the roads are now already beat up the the vehicles you guys know how expensive it is to maintain um placing vehicles in this city with the with the road quality um our epos well they used to go up and try to fix uh different patches for example if

they had a coal patch machine that was going around and it was the end of the day and they had extra Cal patch John Perry would send somebody up there and we would try to continue those roads and that has not happened since he left John was a sweetheart he always filled all the potholes I asked him to yeah I mean as far as the the cold patches are concerned the biggest concerns I have is

want to dump construction debris at DCM because now construction debris has to go to New Bedford they can't right right it has to go to New Bedford so they don't want to drive to New Bedford so they'll wait and at the end of the the week or on a Saturday night they go and they dump it there and sometimes in the middle of the day in the middle of the day anytime but here's the thing the

most that they can pay is $300 it's going to cost them more to dump it so if it's going to cost me more to dump it why am I going to go to New Bedford and dump it legally when I can throw it here for 300 bucks because it's it's less expensive and I'm not going to go to jail cuz I did it and the city is not going to put my name on their website to

say this company this individual was an illegal dump and was fined x amount of dollars so I think another thing we should do is look at changing that ordinance and making it more of a fine if they're dumping construction debris back in I think it was 200920 the residents did come before ordinance and we did change some of the the fines I think at that point it was 100 yeah yeah

but now it's kind of got up more to get rid of it and the other thing is we I think it's not steep enough to begin with but the hardest part truly is for the construction debris there's no personally identifying there's no um G kitchen refuse with mail and addresses and identifying stuff when it's when it's um personal garbage it's easier for the apos to um track down where it's

coming from they work very diligently to find um um you know I know certain circumstances where uh officer Brum has Tracked Down locations where there's been um construction debris that's been dumped but if you gotten some construction debris by getting a license plate on one of the cameras m and then that individual was caught and that individual had to pay the fine and remove whatever they put there and bring

it somewhere else but people in the city don't know about that like if it's known hey if you get caught these are the ramifications these are the consequences of what's going to happen and if they were steeper it would be better right I know that um trash it's easier if I had one on um oh my God can't think of the name near the the North End burial ground somebody kept dropping off their

trash there and this man called me and he said I put on rubber gloves I went through it and it was a kid's birthday and it was there was a a check in there from work in Airport Road I went to Airport Road asked for the individual I when he comes out I want to talk to him I had the the trash in my trunk I gave it to him and told him if he ever

dropped it off again we had his name and number and that guy never dumped it over there anymore but I just think you get along just fine in the copicut I think yeah we would thank you um but I just think that you know doing something like that looking at that and increasing it because when we did it back then I remember doing it back then but right now it's even more expensive to get rid

of construction debris so the find I mean if you're a contractor and you can get rid of it for 300 nothing's going to happen to you that's what you're going to do but we did catch somebody up there recently not that long ago a few months back MH yeah there was some hazardous material that was dumped on the side of the road and um U and actually it was it

it was a perfect storm of of of good um somebody from the filtration plan and I think uh at State Environmental happened to be out there and um the person was apprehended and there was fines involved in in the the vehicle I think was compounded but that wasn't made public I hate to say you want to make things public but it's almost like you have to send a message this is what's going to

happen because people don't see it you know I if somebody picks up uh whatever they have some kind of a sting every guy's pictures in the paper with I could care less about that I'm more concerned with somebody dumping trash I think in that case they were concerned about um you know um giving people more of an idea to you know that they could get get rid of garbage in those areas or or

giving people the idea to you know I know that particular well I think that's one thing to up that fee fishing is that seasonal yes and when does that run begins in Spring I want to say April and runs till the end of the summer till August uh yeah May September October because the hunting season start doesn't that start in October or September early October yeah because the hunting season

you see people you see cars all on one on 95 195 you see them on the sides of the road yeah and it's a problem for some of the folks that are down on Blossom Road because they're parking in areas that are um making it difficult for the buses to pass I know my kids are on that bus you know they're if they obstruct um intersections it can be difficult uh for the bus drivers to see

uncoming traffic and so I know that we have difficulties in in in one part of the um the reservation specifically off the blossom are people parking there for for hunting are there parking places for hunters yes there are so if we had no parking signs put at those locations where buses couldn't get by yeah I think I think I think the biggest concern for the residents are um making sure that

people are adhering to the rules so that their children are safe in their backyards and I and I think I would agree that we would all say that that is the height of the concern that's a height concern my grandfather was a hunter and deer rabbits whatever but they followed the rules and Hunters usually um you know they adhere to all of that but if there's one would one would hope yeah but if there's an issue

with um parking for buses then maybe we let Laura in traffic know where the spot is if there's a problem and maybe put a sign that says where they can park the incident Sarah was referring to has been before traffic in the last couple happened I think it was dropped yeah I didn't I didn't follow it through but I know that it did go before the traffic commissioner and nothing

happened I I I know that they um they postponed it to a second meeting and um that particular resident couldn't get to the meeting because she had sick family um and then think that it was um well if you give us that area Mr labasi or Sarah that specific area we can put it into traffic again thank you I appreciate that and it could come from our committee that this is a problem

thank you um and I know when you talk about Wildlife and Fisheries years ago it was really good you know we could call all the time when Jack sheeper was there Jack Shepard was amazing do you remember him he was amazing and and did a lot with us um I worked a lot with him on the wupa um great guy unfortunately he passed away yeah but uh I'm glad to

hear that they're out there I'm glad to hear that uh Chief uh Fado has put some more guys there well two things from this committee one the roads I think you need to look at that look at ATVs or Vehicles that'll work there and the parking and upping the construction debris put that to ordinance and for increased fines yeah you know there's a few things we can do to kind of keep it

in control all the row during the during the Spring that's when we can really start tackling some of the there will be additional materials that we could utilize to do the roads up to just fill in some of the holes wh we can we've done it a few a few occasions so we'll be doing that again the the big concern is when National Grid starts the construction it's we're going to have

heavy duty machines up and down logging trucks and um fell bunchers and all these other um heavy duty trucks that are going to do do a lot more damage to copicut road than the residents and the off-road vehicles too will you keep your eye on that with National Grid going up there in roads see if you coordinate something with you know Mr lassi and yourself any thoughts on that no thoughts on the roads getting

done I defer to no I I I defer to Mr Al Vera I think um you know timing is everything I know that they've done it you know a number of times that those roads unfortunately because um well the nature of the roads the location of the roads and everything else like that do not remain level for too long um and you know as with you know the conversation about police vehicles conversation about the roads

the level of investment versus the return on the investment which is an unfortunate reality is the problem right uh if you actually look at what it would cost to get those Road roads where we want them you kind of sit there and go gez there are so many other roads that you know hundreds of thousands of people travel on every day that we need to do first and that's that's the issue with

all of this you know whether it's four-wheel drive vehicles for police officers more environmental police doing the roads um so you know we we do the best we can with the resources we have and it's not always a lot of resources I mean to me the concerning part is that if there's a fire up there uh it's difficult well typically I mean if we're talking about the the forest P the past

the pavement it's not F frpd that's responding typically it's DCR right that's responding because they have the vehicles there was a a fire in 2020 that was behind timberlan um and fpd couldn't identify they didn't have the Machinery to get in there and DCR came through and essentially had to bring in like a fire back hos and dig up the roots from because it's a treading a forest fire is a totally different

matter than treading a house fire well it is and that's why Mr laasia can tell you lots of times when there's wind storms like today trees that fall they have people that go up and get rid of those trees they even give them to Residents that want to go up isn't there a special day that residents can go up and yeah we have a permit homeowner permit program and what the homeowner

permit program is basically to get rid of the trees that have fallen and gives people wood to burn in their fireplaces Etc but it's to open up the area so that if there is a fire up there that they can get to it but with that I yield yeah and and I should note too that we're focusing mainly here about the negative effects of the environment and dumping um the what we should not is that these

notes will be passed on to the Committee on Public Safety a lot of what we're talking about they'll be able to pick up in further detail Council Dion yeah I'm just curious um you mentioned that the neighbors didn't want Gates put up for what reason um um the neighbors who have been there much longer than I um have a a whole lot more experience in terms of um the illegal activity in the area for

instance um the copicut rifle association um which I'm a member of CRA before the the gun range was there it was um um Hell's Angel hangout and there was a lot of illegal activity out there um what the neighbors have discovered is really is that healthy active encouraged use of the of the Forest hiking and biking and um you know fishing Etc is their eyes and ears on the forest and if

we have no through traffic we have no eyes and ears we have no um you know people going through that could come across uh a lost hiker um we have no dirt bikers that rescue hikers from coyotes we have I mean there's so many different stories that I have where um you know we've gone for a hike and we help um pull a man who was riding a motorcycle that get stuck in a you know

a puddle that was how deep was that two feet deep puddle that he couldn't lift as motorcycle out of the you know and we were hiking through the area and we were able to you know help to rescue them and pull them out the more through traffic you have the more eyes and ears you have the more Community you have if you don't have the access and you don't have the use then

there then we're looking at you know um more risk because the people that are going in there and and make no mistake they'll get in there their Gates do not stop people rocks do not stop people Mike could tell you himself there's always going to be illegal access and if we put the gates up the neighbors were concerned at that point in time that we're going to have more of the cult activity more um you

know other things that the the farest uh was Notorious for many years ago that that it has not been in the last at least 20 years that I've been there so use is safer as as far as the neighbors are concerned no that makes sense and if you have if you have a culture of off-road vehicles and a culture of people that are accustomed to having access to the forest and all of a sudden

they're barred access you're going to have a whole lot of angry people and who are they going to blame I mean neighbors feel like at that point it's it actually creates a security issue for us because um then there are the gates and then there are people parked at the gates and then there are people in front of our houses instead of driving through the forest and um you know it's a security issue

and in terms of um and again I know this is going down the safety uh road but in terms of fire um Etc it wouldn't necessarily be the police department that that would respond it would be the fire department and I would like to think I believe that our fire department does have a brush breaker which gives them the ability to get up into the woods so they have a forestry truck um

and we actually was one of our early arpa purchases is I don't know if you remember that but the the the purpose of the forestry truck is almost more a rescue cuz there's a you know there's an ambulance component to it um the majority of their vehicles could not make it uh on that road so we don't have a brush breaker no we we do I mean but but that's we just have one vehicle like

if there's a if there's any sizable fire incident we're not going to do much with that um given the equipment that we have if it's too far down the road but they coordinate quite well with DCR far firefighters okay with that I okay I I guess Lai has I was just going to comment go ahead sir DCR is so expert in forest fire uh prevention and and actually uh you know fighting forest

fires first of all we have at the top of copicut hill we have a fir Tower and once April comes along that fire tower is staffed every day so and you know and I have the you know we you can basically call them and I and I've I've there have been instances where I've smelled smoke or somebody gave me a tip or whatever they they pick up they still have a

landline up there for crying out loud and so you can talk to a you can talk to a person and within you know seconds they can spot you physically visually spot something um and then the very well-trained Crew That's stationed at the Freetown Forest um which is probably close closer to physically closer to the areas that might be you know engaged in fire um they um you know they they're um they're happy to go out

there and to and to respond and so they're very responsive and they will be the first ones out there because they can get there quicker because they know the area and they have the right tools and so it's I I've got great confidence that you know dcrs has got our back when it comes to forest fires good to know yeah we have some un speed dial so I guess my only question you

know I recognize that a lot of the work you're doing out there is fabulous you're doing a lot of cleanups I think it's cognizant on our part how can we support her in her work what can we do from your department Mr oliv to either coordinate additional resources to help facilitate even more cleaning up of this area because I I think the work she's doing is fabulous but we have some more

resources that could assist her in doing more so you know in essentially being partners with somebody who stepped up to fill in the Gap that we don't currently can fill so any suggestions or thoughts or coordination between yourself additionally with Mr laasia and Sarah to I mean regularly scheduled cleanups things of that nature that we could consider a look at well that's something

that we can coordinate right now um I don't want to talk offline I just want to make sure that as long as we can coordinate a that would be something that I'd be willing to do with with this group and I can see the efforts that have been put here this is this is very exciting to uh to see this work but um we we can definitely support that okay Mike's always coordinated yeah closely I

mean he's he's been um um an incredible resource for me I do break a lot of shovels though mik so yeah which is great I think I our position here and and why I brought this forward is what when can we what can we do additional to what you're doing and what your Co in with Mike do we have additional resources that we can convey again if it's a regularly scheduled

cleanup we know this is a problem if we can get ahead of instead of behind it you know you're one person and your small group of of few people where that we can you maybe use some City resources to facilitate more cleanup faster response and hopefully curb additional littering and additional environmental hazard that's the whole purpose of why we're here today so well Mike has a crew

of guys that are you know they work very hard but they've got a great big area in the bi reserve and surrounding areas I mean there's how many people do you have Mike at your disposal two two yeah yeah they work very hard yeah and and they cover that whole area so I'm I'm saying in in the area you are in your immediate area if we can do more cleanups and and

coordinate that if you could Mr Al with Sarah to maybe do some regly scheduled cleanups this way it's on the calendar we do it we can continue to maintain what's going on and then hopefully as we work toward this is where the public safety piece is going to come in there that committee is going to discuss that how can we then reduce that activity going on I think one plan should be once

National Grid clears up to 500 feet along the water is to keep a very close eye on that area and can know kind of monitor the pulse of how um people are using that area and how it's altering the terrain around the reservoir to have more public use because I know that they have a replanting plan but um again when you have Public Access even the mature plants oftentimes are uh don't survive

the um the the abuse and willful cutting of of the public um so I think just monitoring it closely and making sure that you know we do um know how the area is um altering over time is important fair enough okay Council per I just think I think it's good to have other people go and help you clean out and I know Mr lassio and his crew do and I know that uh adcm

does too with heavy items and all but it's like I am so tired of cleaning up after everybody else cleaning up after slobs who don't know where to dispose of trash appropriately um and I think we need to really focus on that that there needs to be Pride Citywide as Bob ker used to say take pride in where you live take pride in your environment we see all over the

city I mean I I travel I was in the AOS I didn't see a cigarette butt on the ground because people just don't do that you know I know Dave and Sandy Dennis had done a l campaign once that kind of worked they did it with schools and things like that and I I think we we really as a city need to focus on people knowing where to where to dump their

garbage my friends at Christophers are making some serious Headway in some of our other area parks in the quian River Rail Trail um and they're working really hard to inspire other people to volunteer and to contribute and um to take back our city and take back our parks in order to maintain and care for them um but it's it's steady work I do we have any barrels up there okay any Trash I have to jump in

on that one because because no trash bar I'm already a little bit worried okay when a department is being directed by the council to do operation that may or may not be within its its jurisdiction corre not just jurisdiction corre not directed suggested but but it it concerns me something we could do because I think we need to work within the larger priorities of the city and what's planned and it's a bigger thing

because what can happen is you know anytime a citizen comes before any body of the city council we can kind of say all right you know people are watching cameras are on we're going to direct that department to do something in response to that thing at that time worries me I'm not directing I just want to be clear but would it I think you'd agree it sure sounded like that a few

minutes ago no okay I'm not directing I'm just I'm asking would it be something we could coordinate to work together but it okay sounded like that to me but that's that said one I would say that's not the job of DCM right it just isn't like now DCM can coordinate cleanups but the job of DCM is to make sure the trash gets collected when it's in buckets on certain days they do

streets and highways there are missions that each of these department has and I get really concerned when we start to say well now the mission is is a bigger thing than what it was or a different thing than what it was because there are so many implications there including Union implications including resources including including how do we do this and then respond to somebody from a

different neighborhood and says hey what about me because frankly I think they have just as much a right right um and so that that's my first thing but when we start to talk about barrels now we're talking about collection right so we have some barrels that without anybody's knowledge appeared by some of the homeless camps that was never ever the agreement um in fact the agreement was

always backs you know because we can get some of the guys to pick those up it's already outside of their job description but they do anyway more because it's the right thing to do and we have sort of this tentative not always peaceful agreement with the unions that okay they're willing to do this much right all of a sudden the barrels are there there's a bunch of them it wasn't what we agreed on and now

I have a fairly serious potential Union problem so I just think we need to understand when we start talking about putting City resources towards these things is such a larger conversation than just at this table being introduced for the very first time without any further conversation with any of the people that actually have to do the work which are the people in City Hall and without an understanding of the larger

context of what other work it is they have to do um so wasn't going to say anything but but the direction concerns the heck out of me as the guy who actually needs to say hey are we doing the things that we're already scheduled to do now we've added this this additional thing that was never part of the plan we need to make it part of the plan because now you know there's people

watching that assume it's now part of the plan and that worries me so I just wanted to to say that and and I'll say this too that we've also we've coordinated neighborhood cleanups around the city volunteer neighborhood that's what I'm saying that's what I'm so I'll not City resources not City I will clarify that that's what I'm looking for if we've done in other places in the city we should be able to do it here as

well I I agree I think that whatever management plan needs to be sustainable long-term sustainable um and not utilizing um um funding of departments that are already stretched in terms of their Resources Council per you have the floor but Mr laasia do you have barrels up there no you have all these trails in that are there any barrels up there they are not barrels it's it's it's a carryin

carry out kind of policy which is a kind of a standard way to go for responsible Sports people kind of like the Grand Canyon you bring it in you take it out yeah it is you know so I I I wanted to say one thing first of all um Paul furland who's the department Community utilities um yes administrator regrets he couldn't be here tonight but he has got a great idea and i' I'd just like to

throw it on the table because it's something a little bit new um the idea of a ranger an educational Ranger and I think you know he this is we've been tossing this around you've probably spoken it yeah you're killing me so the idea being what did he say said you're killing me the the idea of being a you know a person a person on the ground who can interact with the public um who you know

part you know we have we have education um uh goals in terms of the the BIOS Discovery Center and and Environmental Education but there's a lot of human contact that might go a long way and I don't expect the environmental police to necessarily do that but maybe somebody's on a bicycle or maybe somebody's on foot but they're interacting with the public and it kind of goes along with the whole

I think um you know the the city emphasizing its brand of hospitality and and emphasizing you know it's its environmental brand I mean look you know when you just start to branding like that I like that that's why I think tourism director would be really good for the city as is but they would be educating the public and branding it's a hybri what we have yeah so that I know I know this

idea is is somewhat more of a hybrid thing where you've got an you know you've got an education range that can be out on the land can be in the school system can be you know um you know working with a lot of different themes but it could contribute toward toward putting a you know a human face on the trash issue interfacing with the construction companies as well yeah yeah

I agree I think education for the Youth is really vital the folks that are actually illegally dumping the construction debris those are the smaller firms um those are not the guys that are the larger firms they they already have that all covered so those are the small guys great but regardless of who it is enforcement to me that's the place where unequivocally it's the city's responsibility right cleanups I I

think is more of a volunteer thing pickups if we can work it out and it's within the city's resources if it fits what we're able to do fine enforcement there's no question enforcement is our job and if we can put more people on to do enforcement to prevent the litter from happening in the first place that I mean nothing but support from the city for that dealing with the after effect

that's where you are now kind of outside of of of what the city responsibility is do we collectively have a responsibility as as residents and as people that live and work here yeah we do but that's a moral responsibility and so we need to just be clear about that but but you know I think the enforcement is the biggest part of this that we can actually help we have a lot of ordinances and they're not being

enforced so if they're not being we just passed one a few weeks back and all of a sudden I see all these things happening and nobody's supposed to be in the park after 9: but they're still there and now people are going in and doing all kinds of things well where's the why did we pass that ordinance makes no sense to me so but again raising the fines is is I

think raising the fines I'd like to make a motion that I don't know if what would be more appropriate Allison I mean Allison Lauren to just put in a resolution for next council meeting or that this committee file a resolution as a committee that this go to the ordinance committee to look at The Dumping fee correct I would I would I would say that this committee should file a resolution to to visit the fines

in relation to Illegal dumping and you may even tiar them based on how the proximity to the water supply yeah that's my input and we want to one second

sorry okay but we'll we can work that out in ordinance we can do a different fee structure so do we also want to do one for parking or if you give me that I can just call Laura can I for that yeah you can s that for one second we vote on this first um not really that so councel the Council PR do you want to make a motion for that motion to forward to the

full councel for motion to file a resolution FAL resolution correct so moved second hey motion made in second all in favor I any oppos guys have it that's okay Council per do you want to continue what you were saying uh no I think the the road uh with traffic where people are parking if that's interfering with a bus I can just call Laura um in traffic and have her look at it Laura retired oh

Laura reti my God Stephanie M M Jes I call La too sometimes but I I'll have um Stephanie I'll look at her she really does a wonderful job and also the police offic at there Mar wonderful and so I'll go up and see exactly where it is I'll take it right up with her may I suggest that the committee also write a letter to the traffic commission expressing their concerns about the parking in this

area you you can write a letter but I'm going to talk to it tomorrow fair enough we'll write a letter anyway you don't have to and as far as as far as barrels are concerned I think you know we put barrels out there we're just going to have people litter in the barrels and all around the barrels fishing line recycling you know with you know the state ever considered doing something like that DCM ever

wanted to offer fishing line recycling program that'd be fantastic but I don't expect to see that that might be something Mr laasa can help with I will work on that anything else NOP I yield yeah um Miss Riley can you specify the areas the parking is an issue so we can address that in the letter I would refer to my um other resident I think it's Blossom and Indian town okay all right we'll get some if

you could give us some further clarification on that there's a triangle between Blossom Indian town and yellow Hill and I believe that that whole area is is the issue we'll check out the map and we'll we'll come up with it okay sure we make a motion yeah we'll do it anyway we make a motion to send a letter to the traffic uh Department regarding the issues with with parking out there I'll make that motion second

motion made and second all in favor I any opposed the eyes have it anything else motion to well so I would like to make a suggestion that we table this matter until Public Safety meets and then see what their results of their conversation will will be and then we'll take it from there do you want to send any of this to Public Safety well I figure we'll they'll get the minutes

from this meeting anyway and they'll and they'll have the resolution as well because it's two-part resolution so if we want to make a motion to table it I'll make a motion to table second made and seconded all in favor I guys have it thank you folks thank you for your appreciate you very much we have nothing else on our agenda this evening on a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn

second made and seconded all in favor I the eyes the committee on health and environmental Affairs now adjourned hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey hey