10.28.24 Special Charter Review

hi everybody Welcome to the special Charter review committee meeting it is October 28th 2024 it's 5:00 pm we are meeting in the hearing room at one government center Fall River Massachusetts pursuant to the open meeting law any person may make an audio or video video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any media attendees are therefore advised that such recordings

or Transmissions are being made whether perceived or UNP perceived by those present and are deemed acknowledged and permissible could you join me in the Pledge of Allegiance please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all and if we could take attendance starting at my

right Reena Brown Kathy namovic Tracy Al s Campos beautiful and we will open up this meeting for public comment I have Noe schu for you guys oh I'm sorry why it's all locked up you know when you guys have a meeting I got it open don't worry we're all here here we got in all right you got is it open to the public it is open yes thank you uh the janitor just came in and let

us know that he was not notified of tonight's meeting so if the public does come in after he unlocks the doors we're going to reopen it absolutely for public input okay sure thank you everybody and seeing no public at at this time we will move on to the discussion and review five and six of the charter report as well as the charter I will start by uh saying I went to the city council

meeting um with uh Tracy and um Corporation Council was also there and I listed three of the things that the city councilors kind of were asking about and wanted us to bring back to the committee if anybody does not have a copy of uh the charter I have an extra copy here you want one D yeah okay what is the is it dated cuz I think I had is this the

latest the very last one does yours have yellow in it yes okay that yellow one there's one there's a redo but not with yellow okay let me see I might have an but is it okay the yellow stays as is right it's just highlighted in yellow it was just highlighted on second I got a couple reports report that's fine are you sure okay save a tree and with that one of the

questions regarding vacancy of the mayor that is hang on Section 2-1 which reads um 9 10 11 all righty mayor no wait a minute maybe three three d10 three dash thank you 3-h 10 well I'm going to start out vacancy in the office of Mayor um 38 is titled temporary absence of the mayor and there was some discussion uh by one of the counselors about the powers of the act in May

um apparently when councelor Pont was acting mayor he was not permitted to run the school committee meetings and um I didn't tell him that we did not change the powers of an acting mayor we left it as the old Charter was it didn't prohibit him from uh presiding over the school committee meetings and uh I did indicate to him if they didn't let you then it sounds like that was a charter

violation heard right yes yes yeah so but moving on vacancy in the office of the mayor 310 I'll just read it in the record whenever a vacancy occurs in the office of the mayor by death removal resignation or incapacity for a period greater than 21 days during the first 18 months of the term for which the mayor was elected the city council shall call a special election to be held within 90

days following the date the vacancy is created to fill the vacancy for the remainder of the unexpired term between the date of the Declaration of the vacancy and the certification of the results of the special election the vacancy in the office of the mayor will be filled as provided in 38a if the council president is unable to serve the provisions of provisions of 38c sheli the candidate elected as the mayor in

such special election shall sworn to office immediately upon certification of the results of the special election the council was concerned that in the event a mayor has a long-term medical disability open heart surgery or something like that uh they were uh somewhat um uncomfortable and not happy about how uh we wrote this um they had a problem with the 21 days thank you uh first of all very good

job done by you and Trac I did watch the meeting and I I particularly took note but I think I'll stand corrected you guys were there I wasn't but I think that's talking about the temporary vacancy and the number of days am I am I wrong they they yeah it was the number of days it's the number of days but it's it applies I think to both three the temporary absence does it

apply to the I think it applies more to the other section doesn't it the vacancy in the office of the mayor well 38 is how we addressed vacancies and we said council president I think we took out that language unwilling we took the language out of unwilling but we didn't make any big changes to that did we make any changes to 3-10 the VAC did we make any changes to that vacancy in the office of

the mayor because as as the section that you just read Madam Che right I I think that's I'll call it the existing shatter that was passed in 2017 I that that's the language that's in the existing chatter and as far as I'm aware even the original chatter commission didn't change that that was that was the language that was in the prior CH prior to 2017 I think Council Aon and Council of

Deon and I'm happy to stand corrected were more concerned about the temporary vacancy because one of them said what about a disability what about a heart attack what about an open heart right they were talking about the they were talking about 310 when they were talking about that yeah because they were concerned that they were going to because he he specifically said a mayor's going to lose their job if they

can't serve for 21 days and that was related to 310 yeah so so my take was that it applies to the other section more than this I I person and I'm pretty sure I voted against the 21 days I'll stay corrected on that in any event I never liked any number of days for a temporary vacancy for the reasons that the council was stated I think I think the only the only

way it's just my opinion people can vote any way they want I've lost a thousand votes I don't get offended but I think the only way that a mayor weaves office is by The Ballot Box or by a recall that's my opinion well the old I have the old Charter I I call when I refer to it as old I don't mean the one the one that we the current Charter the current Charter

38 temporary absence of the mayor a for now acting mayor we added the 21 days we added the 21 active they in 38 temporary absence of the May the current Charter whenever by reason of sickness or other cause the mayor is unable to perform the duties of the office the president of the city council shall be acting mayor unless he's un unable or unwilling we took out unwilling and then it says 38c

38c in the event the city council president is unable to serve than the vice chair that's what this current Charter says our 38 we put in the 21 days because the original charter did not have a date by which action needed to be taken it was two open ended and I'm fine discussing the 21 days again but I think that was everybody agreed that that was problematic in that there was no time

frame that solicited action right when it exactly um so 38 in the current doesn't have 21 days 38 in our recommendation we put 21 days in 38 and then then we put it again in the 310 so in the current one current you read 310 in the current one in 38 we don't have we don't have 21 days and 310 we don't we we how does that read how does that first sentence read in 310 the

current one says where whenever a vacancy occurs in the office of the mayor by death removal resignation or any other reason during the first 18 months the council shall call a special election to be held within 90 days following the date the vacancy is created that's reference to 21 days in both of those section and we we put 21 days in both and I feel the 38 timeline is reasonable because it

just says this person's in charge if you can't serve for more than three weeks yeah that was our that was kind of our problem is that it was it was when do you say it's vacant and or or do we do we look at a month or 30-day timeline I don't know that's fine too but I think the point that folks were making at the city council meeting was

the issue around the loss of the POS the post right the loss of the position because they would have to give it up it was a new election blah blah blah so that they had it was 310 they had issue with 310 called for that special election and and perhaps I don't know if we included the 21 days originally in the 310 or if it just kind of got there

by proxy because we voted on it in 38 so perhaps those dates should be different and their their um example was a surgery with a recovery time correct and and I understand that but even with the recovery time it doesn't necessarily render the mayor unable to serve right it just maybe limits their involvement but unable to serve is literally unable to serve so it can't the city must run so there needs

to be a successor right like I like the 21 days in the temporary absence of the May yes I think so too I don't I don't see any problem with that temporary or permanent city council president should be it's perfectly reasonable right because it's all talking about temporary and so right nobody's in that office for 21 days temporary right maybe we take the I don't know I just take it

out is it does it make sense to take it that time period out of 310 but leave it in 38 well listen as it stands right now if if the mayor had to go to uh if he had to go out of the state out of the country he or she uh had a family what whatever the the city council president steps in automatically that that's the way I would be more most comfortable

with it remaining that there's never been an issue for we I don't even think that was discussed by the first body uh I like the if the mayor is unavailable for whatever reason the city council president steps in until the mayor returns they communicate the the city administrator is also there to assist a as the city administrator does on a daily basis uh I I I personally don't believe uh and frankly never lik any of

the numbers I don't believe we need any number if the mayor is unavailable there's a succession right now I I have a problem with the with the word un unavailable it's subjective okay right and so I think that's where we could take it up is that issue around on availability maybe the timeline for succession wouldn't be such an issue if that availability was defined more clearly make it any word you want the

point is if the May is what does unavailable mean is what I mean let's define that Tim go ahead I I was just going to say to simplify and you know so section 3A is the temporary absence of the mayor and 310 is the vacancy and office of Mayor um the temporary you know absence is obviously uh factoring in some ill illness or having to leave the country like all of

those scenarios a permanent or a vacancy is the mayor is not there right the mayor is not there's a hold there's an opening for that that job um likely by death removal of resignation or a longstanding illness that is make rendering him in incapable of being able he or she incapable of being able to take that role so perhaps we can look at it as separating the two as a permanent absence temporary absence and then the

timeline for 310 we can extend it if we wanted to because a 3-week uh absence of the mayor if we don't like the 21 days for a temporary then we can adjust that if we feel like that's too short right um but I think the the obvious choice would be whatever that timeline is let's say it's three weeks then the the president of the city council would step in until the the mayor returns for a permanent

vacancy now we have to deal with the fact that there's currently no mayor I mean in I'll tell you what though our recommendation weeks our recommendation in 38 we added this line in the event that the mayor announces his inability before the expiration of 21 days these Provisions shall shall immediately um apply upon that notice that sentence is added it's not in the current 38 so I would love to

assume if a mayor suffers such a debilitating activity right that they would notice the city listen this is taking a this going to take a lot longer I'm going to be unable and we know 310 would apply right right I agree I think it's so you're going to be sick for six months well that's like okay that's still a temporary capacity yeah that's the the two are dealing with very

different and I think maybe if we wanted to add a timeline in 310 to say if you are incapable for x amount of time then you're deemed reasonable you know there's a vacancy now you're no longer available to serve your role you know that could be six weeks versus 3 weeks it could be you know whatever that is I don't know if we want to discuss it um

but the 21 days I think we just it was consistent between the two because we add it in 38 because we add it in 38 but you're right I think the my sentiment was that it was that 3-week timeline and and when I thought about it I went yeah that is kind of quick right for for a full removal yeah for a full vacancy for a full vac when I was thinking about

this I was trying to think about it in practice so the mayor announces that they are unable to serve that automatically the city council president is steps into that role so that deals with the temporary absence now that city council that can stand in that role for whatever amount of time and only when I think that the problem with this and I'm trying to even think about it holding up in court is

the definition of the timeline M because then and or the definition of a vacancy made more clearly like what must a mayor be able to do in order to serve how how do you deem somebody unable to serve that that's when it gets too dicey I think that's why I think you should as the existing chatter is well that was one of the problems in the 10 taxpayer lawsuit is the part of the

argument for a minute was that because that mayor was out on bail and you can't freely travel in and out of mass was problematic I thought it was problematic so a mayor has a condition of bail that says you can't leave Massachusetts without permission and Mayors travel all over the place so I I always thought that the qualifications for mayor need to say things like you know you must be

able to do x y and z x y and z that's maybe where we're safer because we're not putting a timeline on it we're putting actions because the timeline is irrelevant without the action right it's the action that is important we want to be make sure that the C the business of the city can move forward right and and it's not stagnated by this person's absence well but the but the temporary

absence yes is included there so that there's cover right what's a reasonable timeline for that person to serve in that role right so so the without Ane applies the city council president comes in during that temporary absence the mayor May recover May return but what's I guess but in terms of the vacancy in the office of the mayor what's a reasonable time well no but I don't see the way I read it now

that I'm reading this I think it goes back to what Tim was saying 3-8 is temporary I'm sick I'm whatever I'm I'm coming back 3-10 I'm not coming back so why put a timeline on it like that's saying death removal or resignation leave it at I'm not coming back well I think it's a timeline but I I don't think that's the appropriate timeline but I think the timeline is make sure that there's an there there's something

what if someone is lying in bed in the coma and never says hey I can't come back to work you know what do you do what do you do so so having the P the council president is there and for how long should a council president serve as the acting mayor in that role is what I'm thinking about yeah because the other thing is there are limits on the acting mayor and

there are limits on it they can do everything they can't do permanent appointments I mean uh unless they can unless the disability or absence of the mayor shall extend beyond 60 days that's in B right so they can make all the same they can they have full access to the office after 60 days even in in the event of a temporary absence is that true right so powers of the acting mayor the acting mayor have these

powers of the mayor are indispensable and essential to conduct a business in an orderly efficient manner and on which action may not be delayed the acting mayor shall have no authority to make a permanent appointment or removal from from City service unless the D disability or absence of the mayor shall extend beyond 60 days nor shall the acting mayor approve or disapprove of any measure adopted by the council

unless the time within which the mayor must act would expire before the return of the mayor the city council president or any other city council who may be serving as acting mayor pursuant to 38c shall not act as a member of the city council so in the powers of the acting mayor we've solved some of those problems right yeah I think 3-8 is fine as this in my opin with the 21 days I do think

it's fine I wouldn't touch it it's the it's the 310 I I think 310 we have to look at that is permanent and so maybe what exists today currently is fine to Dan's point because you're saying we added in we added in the incapacity for a period greater than 21 days maybe we extend the 21 days the current Charter says right now technically if the May goes on a two week

vacation and he's out of the out of the city technically the city council president steps in well that's 3-8 so he returns if he's out sick for a day technically the city council president takes over I don't see why we need a a time frame the the the city is ran in my opin with the provisions of the line of succession as it's been since uh what 1854 I

mean I I think the reasons in 310 we have to revisit that so does it become automatic I I think 310 means he's he that the mayor the mayor he or she died they were removed or they resigned like they're not coming back there's no mayor but three May has when whenever a vac the current Charter whenever a vacancy occurs in the office of Mayor by death removal resignation or any other reason

during the first 18 months of the term for which the mayor was elected the city council shall call a special election my problem with that is for any other reason I agree so we don't maybe we don't put that in what would be what would be the because it's covered under so let when you can't travel out of the state of Massachusetts because the judge said you can't that was my problem with that

Fiasco is that I felt the duties of the mayor couldn't be fulfilled by somebody who had a travel order on them right um of course he got around that if you get permission butan know that isn't that though covered or any under 3-8 under the Because by not being able to travel out of the state or whatever the mayor is unable to to perform the duties of the office so isn't that covered under

there that's a that's he's unable to perform the duties of the office that wasn't enough for them to rule against him in the last around though he did he was able to continue to serve as mayor despite the fact that he was unable to travel and the the reason he was is because he wasn't convicted of anything he was only CH MH but he was still unable his the restrictions of his

so I think but I mean I like Paul what if God forbid there's a coma right and they can't give permission we let the council president serve until the next general election that's that's my problem with this vard right now for two days as soon as the we no that's not what I'm talking about Dan what I'm saying is in the vacancy that Vision any the other reason if he God forbid suff as a medical

emergency that he cannot resign because he is unable to verbalize and the council stays there for two years what if it's right after if because it's talking about within the first 18 months I mean remember again they're only twoyear terms which we also have to talk about tonight um they're only twoyear terms right so I mean other Char yeah but any restrictions on time no time no and i' I've looked at a lot

of different ones and none of them have anything we're putting in a Time timeline then maybe but we cover it we cover your concern though I think Renee in 38D because we say if it happens within the first 18 months of the term then a special election is held if the vacancy happens in the last six months the acting mayor will complete the term so technically right I think we just

take out the 21 days then in so so what was the uh the section you read it was the 60 days to be able to put um to make appointments yeah 3 38b right because I mean that's a that's a huge in 38b powers of the acting mayor right so that's the current Charter in our third in our 38b we didn't change any of it I mean if we were going to put a time on a

permanent vacancy then you might want to synchronize it with the ability to do permanent appointments because that's a huge component of being a man so yeah but it doesn't but we don't need to put a timeline does a coma so let's say we go to the coma example like a coma do we say well okay he could be in a com he or she could be in a coma for 60 days

before we do anything I think if someone's in a coma for 60 days and they come back out they're not going to be the mayor you know right well that's what I'm saying so maybe we I'm just wondering though because in 310 we don't cover timeline like what if so we say per the permanent vacancy happens by death removal or resignation because we're taking out that or we're Tak we're taking out or

incapacity another category for that maybe we just take out so then maybe it's whenever a vacancy occurs in the office of Mayor by death removal resignation or incapacity we take out for a period greater than 21 days if we take that out it would read whenever a vacancy occurs in the office of the mayor by death removal resignation or incapacity during the first 18 months for which the mayor was elected city

council calls a special election we just take out the 421 days so we're talking about I think the key is here temporary absence versus total vacancy we're going to take it out in both places I think well I think temporary leaving it temporary Le it in temporary because we have to have something to but I think then the question goes to I think it was no you're right though it just goes right to to to to

see I mean you just you just said it if the it it 38 a b and c will cover it yeah the practice is normally the city council president steps in yeah when the mayor is unable to ser for a certain time that usually happens automatically should we I think we should take that's what that's what I'm saying take consecutive days but if that didn't happen or there if there was some if there was some

confusion or argument about that temporary absence at least the I don't know the I think you do I think we when I go back to our conversations I mean it really comes down to like what if the mayor just takes off the city council president by the way does not serve as the mayor if he leaves and goes to the vineyard tomorrow that's not how the charter Works Dan the charter only works

if the charter says it so when you say things like if he goes to the vineyard the council president sits in at him no that's not how it works he still able to perform not how it works according to the chat but that's how it works realistically no I know but it has to be documented somewhere I mean that's the way it works it should be documented that way that's what I'm saying in the

event that there's an absence of the mayor for any length of time the city council president steps in no timeline just automatically and we can that's the way honestly it is at the University if the dean steps away the one of the associate Deans must be named as the dean for that college for the day if you're traveling out of state and it's automatic there's doesn't have to be a

declaration it's it's known it's written somewhere in the contract well it's got to be written somewhere in the charter that's what I'm saying right so we need at some language around that because while this might be practiced that is common it's not R it's not in the chart it's a charter violation well that's my that's a that's problem there's no way Joe Camaro walks in the mayor's office

and does his job when the mayor goes to the vineyard that's just not happening because if it is it's a charter violation but isn't the let say the mayor violations if the mayor does go to the vineyard does that necessarily mean he's unable to perform the duties of the office no I mean he's a phone call like you know boom that's why we included the 21 days we wanted to kind of solidify

when that transfer occurs and if somebody wants that power and wants to take it they can the timeline in the temporary I think I can see taking the timeline out of the 10 I do I agree because I think you need a triggering event and our triggering event for the temporary absence is 21 days whether it's AA open surgery at least it's definitive all right Joe you're going to have to

step up you know Maya kugan is got to go to Japan for something I I mean I don't know but I I like a definitive triggering event yeah yeah I and I think temporary absor ABS I think 21 days is fine I mean that's three weeks we talking about like a business trip you know out of the country where but he can still answer email and get on phone calls I mean

we're in the the digital age so I mean you can do business from anywhere right so I mean a simple Zoom is as if you're sitting in your office so you know what constitutes the the real temporary absence now is it sickness is it you know get into a car accident is it taking a sabatical because you know maybe maybe it's a a woman mayor and they're pregnant and they're going on

you know if there's something along those lines but I think we need to think of think of it more as what constitutes a temporary absence not just well are all the cause whenever by reason of sickness or other cause you think we should Define other cause see I don't I I think or it just has to be by reason of sickness or something along those lines like health related or we need to

Define further what that cause could be otherwise well you know if the if the mayor is going to go to the vineyard then but I think it comes I think the key there is the mayor is unable to perform the duties of his office right I think that's it you we Define duties a couple well that's what I'm looking there is a I just mention Paul go ahead um yeah so when um the former mayor

situation came up and I don't want to complicate this because we've removed the ability of the city council to remove the mayor yeah but at the time that they were considering that I gave them a specific list of what the duties were that he was going to be unable to do because of the pending criminal case Okay so he wasn't going to be able to meet with certain people Etc so I gave them a specific

list we've removed that and and the issue is that we've removed that because the case said that it wasn't legal but um the problem is is that if we start defining this more precisely you know who's going to make that determination right because we may miss something like we may we may you know if you say it's it's if if if you list specifics then does that mean everything else is right

right I think it invites litigation when you use a term like in capacity but come here I'm still slightly question is do we have who determines this who determines this what the 21 days it sounds like the city council shall call a special election to be held within 90 days are you talking about 310 who determines following the date the vacancy is created so it sounds to me like the the vacancy have to be by

notice of something is an event Like It Is by notice so remember the case law and I don't remember it off the top of my head but the judge did talk about the city council not being able to terminate the mayor P what was that 8.1 so was that the provision where they tried to remove him by seven votes yes yeah that was that was never legal we have to we have to review that case law

I'm going to suggest that we Rie the case law um and and see the language of the courts kind of because I don't remember specifically why they said don't but I got I do have it though so I would I didn't bring my whole notebook either like two accordion files this big I don't know why um what a motion to the table be in honor yeah so may second so is that okay

is any more discussion we're going to pull the cases on that there's been cases litigated where the council tried to remove a mayor and they failed but there's good language in there about the constitutionality of that which may shed some light on our vacancy versus 38 and 310 so if anyone want anyone else wants to speak then I need to remove the motion cu the table there's a motion to table this

discussion about 38 and 310 it's been seconded all in favor I I okay so the motion passes um we'll do a little more research and feel free everybody to research the other um I'll I'll send in fact I probably have the decisions here so I'll send those the other um topic that came up up for a lot of discussion was um term limits term limits and what this what's the language I'm looking for so they they're

in for two years oh in term um the term of like term term of office limits and term limits right number of terms like can you be a mayor for 22 years and and and the so here's how some of the discussion there was discussion for us to discuss term limits whether I I'm certainly not thinking that we want to decrease it to one year but uh the mayor and there was also discussion about staggering counil

um positions so that suggestion I really liked I I did it too I thought it made a lot of sense so you're not electing a full compliment of new people every two years I would have a question Mr Lions about that two1 that would mean for not that I'm opposed to more elections but that would mean more elections correct well we here's the deal and I thought about this if we

staggered I think it would call for also an increas increase I think it would have to be an increase in term an increase in term I think it in order to stagger it properly I think we figured out that it's going to be a threeyear term threeyear term so every two it's rotating correct right and there was a lot of discussion from the council about both those go ahead Paul sorry before we get

there and I sent out um we had talked about chapter 43 um in very early meetings and prior to talking about chapter 43 there had been discussion about W counselors there had been discussion about mayor mayoral term and when we looked at chapter 43 that is the master of Law's chapter that defines the plans of government and it defines plan a which Fall River adopted as a mayor and city council is elected

at large and that also indicates that the term for the mayor is two years okay then um chapter 43 this is M General Law chapter 43 section what 43 chapter 43 section section for what plan a is tell me the tell me the law you're citing again chapter 43 sets forth six types of governments which a through F I know Mass General law what we adopted plan a yes oh yeah now chapter 43 section 17

C indicates that a question can be placed on the ballot um for a four-year term of May and it specifies that the procedure is pursuant to the citizens initiative ballot pursuant to the chapter so we discussed this very early on and we determined that the statute controls and that this committee has no authority to even consider changing the mayoral term to four years okay so I think we should re

respond to the city council remind them of chapter 433 so it's Mass General Law chapter 43 section 17 c c okay would that apply to city council terms as well um or just mayor I believe it applies the vote I think you just said it was both mayor and city council if I'm not mistaken I don't I would have to I would have to research check to 43 motion to

the table oh wait a second um let me just let me pull it up right now because it's decision I've got the decision um from the judge I feel like those two issues are very different they ex the extending the term of the mayor from two to four and staggering city council to for a threee a completely different completely different and I think there's also a provision in chapter 4

I did not uh I researched the Marl term um but I did not research whether there's a limit on the city council terms pursuant to the statute I think I think I just pulled it I think there is so chapter 43 the title of Mass General Law chapter 43 is City Charters yeah definitions authorization to adopt a plan of government effect hang on what' you say 17 yeah 17 C 17 o of office a salar city

manager Council compensation 4317 C fouryear term for Mayors in certain cities two-year term for certain cities city council Powers city clerk 4318 addresses the city council just taking a peek by the way we had a foure here in the past it was a ballot question in initiated by the late uh John maderas okay it it passed it stayed for one or two cycles and then it uh they decided to revert back to the two-year

maybe you may maybe you make some City maybe you make some city council positions two and make some three can't you go half and half oh what and then you leave it up to who to decide what they want to run for the two-year or the threee what what I I what's wrong with having them run all I wouldn't know how to say it I don't think like I said I

think there was a motion to table this too absolutely and we can we'll have to address chapter 43 but I think when the plan of government is described um plan a includes I think there might be some time limits on the on the city council terms so motion to the table I'll second motion to table term limits in term made by Dan seconded by Paul all in favor by show a hand table the term

limit discussion and what there's a motion made by Dan to table it look into the Mass General law a chance to Res look further plan motion made by Dan seconded by Paul all in favor I I well we know we know that the process for the mayor and changing the term for the mayor is specified by Statute this is for city council we need to okay research for they had questions like about both

and so I did tell them we had discussions about Ward it didn't make it to motion we had discussions about about term limits none of this made it a motion I did tell them that it did not make it to motion but what I want to do is that we will do some research the two motions to table it just passed um because I want to be able to

go back and say it made it to motion it passed or it failed um because they wanted us to discuss it further and we will research it further motion to it well hang on is there anything no because I have to discuss the um not yet Dan I have to discuss further dates um okay because I want to make sure we have quorums for these next few meetings um and I'm having a hard time

getting the hearing room we can't use the atrium next Tuesday what is Mondays are good for everybody right Mondays are still good for everybody correct us okay and is there any time in November the Monday in no November that looking at the calendars I mean you have Veterans Day that's a Monday um that's no good so it doesn't look like October is over and so November 25 is the Monday before

Thanksgiving is Monday the 25th okay with anybody I this is just for me to ask this is not for me to schedule it right now it's just for me to ask about room yep I would rather do the second that's going to be kind of a busy week the um people what December second December well we're going to need a couple meetings I have a feeling so I'm going

to ask for December 2nd that's an x on the 25th no well one of you ask I got to ask yeah um and then I'm going to ask for December 9th I'm just going to ask avilability and it'll either be here or the atrium um just so we can get get you know Kar fantastic work I'm going to ask for all the Mondays in December except for the 30th and not the 23rd so I'm

just going to ask for November 25th December 2nd 9 and 16 and if I go into January because I always send like eight dates and they come back with just a yes for two so if I can if there's definite dates that people know they're not here in January we have the 13th 20th and 27 the 20th is a holiday okay so no 20th we really think we're going to need

to go into 2025 with this well oh God please though well I hope not what are the remaining what's the term what's our these are the remaining issues well let's let's try to let's try to close this up in two two meetings this next meeting right yeah it's just for me to ask about availability that's the only reason why I'm going into 2025 yeah cuz we really need to I mean there isn't CU

this room is very popular and so I would imagine I might not get any of those dates but if the atrium is available then I'll ask for the atrium all right and I will try to do it before 2025 yeah all righty we already have the answers on the May yes that's clear y so it's just a question of looking at the city I feel like we can probably not so it's

really just the vacancy of the mayor and city council and I'm also going to check the um judge's decision on the um remember when they wouldn't allow the city council to yeah yeah actually I'm headed back to the office I I'll pull the case I got it I have in my file all right Dan motion to Second all in favor there's a motion to adjourn what time is it5 555