10.20.25 Housing Authority

Thank you.

The uh board of commissioners will come to order. It's 4:35.

437. Which clock are we using?

437.

437.

Roll call.

Chairman Long here.

Vice Chairman Underh Hill here.

Commissioner Burns is absent.

Commissioner Bentley here.

Commissioner Odarus here.

Commissioner Burns will be a little bit late, but he will show up.

Language for the open meeting law.

Councelor.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The language for the open meeting law is as follows.

Persuent to the open meeting law. Any person may make an audio or video recording of this public meeting or may transmit the meeting through any medium.

Attendees are therefore advised that such recordings or transmissions are being made, whether perceived or unpersceived by those present, and are deemed acknowledged and permissible.

Thank you. Is anyone here for citizen input?

Seeing none, is anybody here for resident input?

Good. Good evening. We'll make this really quick.

Just mention your name name and so they know.

Ed Gagnet for joint tenants council. uh the residents leaders from for attended the mass union of public housing tenants conference in uh Malboro this past two weeks. Thank you Kevin for the ad in the book.

And uh we have two new tenant assistants that started recently. We lost one but we gained two so we had plus one and we're looking for some more obviously.

And that's about it.

Thank you Ed.

And we'll see you uh next Thursday.

Yes. Uh, excuse me. Tuesday.

Thank you.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Minute for the postpone regular meeting held on September 15th to 2025.

I'll take a motion to accept if we reviewed them or um I'll make a motion to accept the meet uh minutes from the September meeting.

Second.

Motion made and seconded. Any discussions?

All those in favor.

All those opposed bills and communication.

Where are those be somewhere?

This one.

We're going to take these all in one or just one.

We're on the vouchers right now. This is recommended action to accept which is this.

Yeah.

If anybody has reviewed the vouchers, um I'll entertain a motion to accept.

I'll make a motion to accept the vouchers as presented.

Second.

Motion being seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

I I opposed.

Have it.

Management.

Okay. Management reports. We have applications, occupancy rates, penance, accounts receivable, work order report, monthly section 8 voucher activity report, monthly personnel account report, director of modernization monthly report, bank investments and bond debt balance report.

I'll entertain a motion to accept.

Make a motion uh to accept the management report.

Second motion made and seconded. All those in favor I opposed.

Should ask if there was any discussion, but I don't see we have any financial report. Director of finance monthly financial res reports for August 2025.

I'll entertain a motion to approve the financial reports.

I'll make a motion to approve the monthly financial reports for August 2021.

I'll second.

Motion made and seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

I opposed update from our executive director director.

Thank you, Chairman Long. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome. A few things for this month.

Um the gateway project at Maple Gardens um is finally underway. Uh the general contractor has set up there and um has begun to mobilize with some minor stuff.

So as a result of that, we were able to uh post some um positions uh for that project and which opened up positions internally. So uh there was a clerk of the works, a resident coordinator and um a couple of mechanics position. So those were filled um with the exception of the resident coordinator, the uh mechanics, those were all filled internally. So it was a good opportunity for people to

advance uh on a temporary basis.

Under management, um we'll be uh meeting with the resident advisory board uh as Ed mentioned earlier, starting next Tuesday. Um, Martha coordinates that and puts that all together. That's in preparation for our annual plan that gets submitted to HUD and EOHLC each year. So, we have a series of meetings um with some changes to the annual plan uh some dialogue. The last meeting we have in uh December is a

lunchon and then the public hearing is in January. So we will start that uh next Tuesday.

Uh we also had CBiz our accounting firm um that does our audited version uh for HUD that is due to be submitted. Uh the deadline is the end of December. So they had already come down started looking at our files. Um Nella Souza, our director of finance, works closely with them, provides them all the information they need in preparation for this audit as it's ongoing. Uh so we can then uh

Um we're also in communication with um the union. Um what they're proposing is to separate the trades people from the current unit A which covers most of the facilities maintenance personnel.

So um we've reviewed that. I've turned it over to our labor attorney, attorney uh Zessen. So, he is also reviewing that. It all looks pretty good. Um the trades people, there's about uh 10, maybe 11. Um most of the contract language would be the same, but then there's a few nuances that apply to trades people and not to mechanics and custodians. So, uh, we're looking to do that, separate what would

be a unit D just for trades people. So, um, as I said, that's being reviewed now by our our labor attorney, but I don't see any issues with that. Um, they just feel as trades people, uh, they don't not everything that they they ask for is the same as as the others.

And lastly, I would like to uh acknowledge and congratulate one of our own, our director of facilities, Ed Majuski. Uh he was recently inducted into the Diamond Hall of Fame for his outstanding achievements uh over his career into the community. And um I just really want to acknowledge him and thank him uh because we're very very fortunate to have someone at that caliber working for the Florida River Housing

Authority and managing the facilities department. So thank you Ed.

Congratulations.

Um we're all extremely fortunate to have you here.

So that was all I had. Uh so thank you.

Congratulations.

All right.

Old business.

Leave of absent request submitted by an employee.

This is for discussion and action. So, might as well just open up the discussion on this.

And to clarify, Mr. Chairman, this was tabled from the last meeting to this meeting right?

Correct.

Yeah. Uh so, Chairman Long, um yes, I I have some questions um on this uh request. Um at the last meeting, uh we didn't have the language uh regarding uh leave without pay. Uh that's something we've been provided with uh since the last meeting. And upon review of that, um I I don't really see how this request qualifies uh based on the wording. Um, if you look at paragraph three of the uh leave without pay

uh item, it says leave without pay will only be approved and I emphasize only with the understanding that the employee intends to return to work at the conclusion of the leave. Um, I don't see anything in the letter that we were presented with that in any way, shape, or form implies that Mr. Dilva is intending to return to his position. So for that reason primarily um I I find that to be a an

issue. But then what precedent are we establishing if we allow this to occur when someone is looking to move on from our the authority?

I is that going to just open up anybody to request make that similar request and then how do we then decide who's worthy of it and and who isn't? So, um, first off, I like I said, I I don't believe it conforms to the language of the, uh, of that benefit. Um, but if someone can help me to understand it differently, then by all means, please do.

Thank you. Any other uh, discussion?

I I I do um in my daytime job I deal a lot with the unions and I do have a concern that uh Mr. Dilva is um is is part of the union and I guess my question would be uh and and I know I know the answer that there is no language in their union contract but this the what we're reading here is from the personnel handbook and not the union. However, is this something

that is changing working conditions for someone?

Is this something that should or would need to be impact bargained by the union? Um, as this would be a benefit granted to one person that's not granted to the rest of the folks in the union. So, I'm I'm just have some questions that way.

Um so currently it is not in the collective bargaining agreement specifically Mr.

Dulva's unit C uh contract. Um as you know we're all aware there's some language in collective bargaining agreements and some in personnel manuals. Um we try our very best and we'll get to that later on on the agenda to mirror one another. So, it's consistent, but you you also have to have policies and language in the personnel manual because that covers non-union personnel as well.

Um so in this case any employee union or non-union based on the personnel manual can request uh the leave of absence based on the guidelines of the policy the current policy but there is not anything uh in the union agreement or I don't I don't think it hurts or benefits anyone in the union they still they have the same right um whether they're in the union or not.

I don't know if that quite answers your question.

Yeah, I I guess I'm more, you know, um like I I have I have two books, right? I have a non-union book, I've got a union book, and bouncing between the two depending upon who the staff person is.

And um again in my my in my daytime job, you know, if we just ask somebody to go to different locations, it's a change of working conditions and it needs to be bargained. There's there's just a lot more that goes with it. So I you know, I'm concerned about this is about the procedure, right? This is nothing this is not personal. This for me this is procedural. I want to make sure we're doing it

correctly. Um, and I I do have some concerns about this request.

So, I don't have any concerns with a union. I I I that's often put out there as a um a hurdle. Uh, what it means to me is that we have a document that tries to ensure that every employee is treated the same and followed the same way. It takes the personalities out of it, right? Um, I don't view that as difficult. I view it as fair. Right?

This is outside of the contract. It's a policy. So, that's a good question. Do the union members have to follow policies? Do they have to follow things that aren't in the contract? Of course, not everything can be captured in the contract. That's just how these things operate. Um, I I would suggest at some point there's a conversation with how this applies fairly to everyone, right?

And and so if we are viewing this situation with um I was going to say his name, I don't know if we if we put his name out there, but um with this employee, does the next employee get the same opportunity, right, to be evaluated in front of this body? You know, it doesn't follow verbatim exactly what the policy states. So, I think we're looking for um if we uh work in compromise, does everyone get

that same compromise? And that in my experience, that's not always the case, right? And I don't mean the housing authority. I mean in general, right? Um I want to support what's going on here a after reading this. It it does leave. I mean, the fact the second part of that is also pretty firm. Leave without pay will only be approved after the employee has exhausted. And I don't think he's he's

asking for that to be secondary. Right.

If I I don't know if I have to read it first.

I think it's secondary.

He's asking for an unpaid leave right now. Right. So that also changes it. So now there's two provisions of a policy which I'm being asked to extend something. And I believe in you in this program, we're going to extend it to other people. But as written, it's it's not just the compromise. I'm changing what the intent of this is. And I think I'm willing to give him um a a leave of

absence if he follows the policy. And this seems too far outside of it. You know what I mean? I am willing to compromise. I'm always willing to work with people. I believe you are too.

Policies are set up. We do our best to treat everybody the same. This seems on two fronts outside of the policy. Unless there's a different way to address this is affecting everybody. Here's a new policy. We're all on the same page. I don't know that I can support it because of those two provisions.

Well just not to jump too far ahead because we're going to discuss, as I said, a little further down in the agenda, but um as you know, everyone is treated the same and treated fairly and as you said very correctly, you cannot have a policy for every single situation. uh the the work environment times change so fast that it's it's literally impossible. Um but it in the personnel policy when you

you read it the in the preamble it does state what you know union members are covered will follow the collective bargaining agreement and if it's not there you know they still we have it in the personnel policy. know what's not in one is in the other and and vice versa.

So everyone is treated fairly. No, there's no uh mistreatment or special treatment. Everybody has the same opportunity. Uh and as you said and the policy is pretty clear. Um you have to exhaust your time. You have to return to work. Um, this was in all my time an extremely unique request and situation because we have an outstanding staff member that is looking for uh to achieve

and fulfill a goal that he's always had.

But I I definitely understand um the board's point of view. who I've consulted with our labor attorney and uh you know he felt you know you do have the right to treat on a case-bycase basis a request however you don't want to set a precedent or open yourself up for all these other crazy requests in the future. So, um, these are one of those decisions if I could make for you, I would, but it

specifically states board approval. So, excuse me. I don't want to overstep my boundaries, so I have to kind of punt it over to you.

Can I ask a question?

I'm just playing it through in my mind.

What is the resistance from the employee to taking the leave of absence using that money separating from service right like or not taking leave of absence but separating from service doesn't cash out his retirement doesn't as a a value 21-year employee wouldn't you bring him back here if it didn't work out in the in the field that he's looking to get hired and he says, "Hey, by the way, it didn't

work out, but I did put in 21 good years in the housing authority. Can I be considered for a position? You could hire him."

So more than likely more than likely if the 30 if he was granted a 30-day and then didn't come back the 31st day but came back the 37th day, the job is probably more than likely it's going to be open and available and he can reapply. However, two two things. He does lose all his seniority and his and his fringes. He starts from square one.

So that's one thing. The other thing is in these uncertain times, I could not put myself on a limb and say, "Yeah, definitely the job's waiting for you."

HUD cuts our our subsidies and now I can't fill the position. So I could never promise someone something and then the funding is not there. Hypothetically doubt that that would happen. I think the position would be there. he'd be the most qualified. Um, but based on the policy and based on my due diligence as the executive director, I could never make a promise like that to someone. Yeah. Go do your thing and

I'll hold your job for you.

Yeah. And I'm not trying to say you hold that position, but I'm saying if you want to come back, so more important to me as an employee would be my tenure and my retirement, right?

If he simply walks away from this job, doesn't cash out retirement, doesn't cash out, maybe he's required to cash out any old vacation, just Yeah, he's still when he comes back, he's still got 19 years, 21 years here. He's treated as a 21-year Fall River Housing Authority. His money is still in the retirement system.

He he's treated as a 21 year for retirement purposes, right? Which is what I would be worried about as my retirement, right? But for the for river housing authority once you break service and come back now you're on a probationary period you're starting from day one. So he wouldn't have four or five weeks vacation.

Uh he wouldn't have seniority over other workers that may vi for the same position.

Accumulated sick time.

Yeah. Accumulated sick time. Annual time on the books. He would have his 21 years certainly with the retirement, but I couldn't treat him as a 21-year employee or human resources could not. He would come in, he'd get two weeks vacation, 10 sick days.

So that's I think the personal risk to him. It's not he'll always have his time in the retirement system. It's just you worked 21 years and now you're approaching getting five weeks and leave and however many hours of sick that all goes away.

So that's the tough thing.

Yeah. I'm still running that through my head.

Yeah.

Only only piece that I have that bothers me with the language is how do you predict the future?

He's coming to us saying I want to take a leave. I'm sure the executive director has explained to him what the consequence of that leave will be. But for him, he came to us. He could have said that uh uh during my leave, I'm going to look at other opportunities, but in the end, um if those opportunities don't pan out, I plan on coming back to work. Would that suffice?

It's only my question. I said, how how can anybody in any situation um predict that future? He hasn't even been admitted. hasn't even been he's taken a big risk on this. Um and I look at it and I've had conversations with our executive director about it and uh but it's his it's what he wants to do. So, um, as far as the, uh, um, housing authority, there's no financial, um, issues with that we're

going to suffer because of this. I I don't see that happening. Um, so I'm like, I get it. 30 days.

It take us 30 days. If we wanted to post a position today, if he quit, it take us 30 days to get get a new guy in there or more.

Concern.

I I don't believe that's necessarily the concern. I I think it's about setting a precedent that others can all decide now, hey, I see a job uh somewhere. Let me go apply. If I get it, then I'll just come to the board and ask for a month, two months. We we say we can ask for up to 12 months. Uh so where do we where does that line get drawn and uh I I

think it's a very dangerous precedent that we're and I think moving forward I think we should review this a little bit because it's very it's it's not it's it's not good policy. That's all I can say. Well, I I I don't know that it's so much that again, you know, a valued employee, a unique request, right? Most people it may be a personal request, a medical request, which certainly the

board I think would be more inclined to approve because you know that there's a potential or should be a return date.

this situation unique as and credit to him open honest going to try this I'm not going to return um but our our policy doesn't allow that and I I definitely understand and respect commissioner Madirus's point which it's legit um we just don't get many of these so we're not as versed in this type of stuff. Uh the last one I we had was a few quite a few years back and we knew there was a

start and end date and it was within it was a sixmonth um going way back further than that. We had someone that was relocating out of state and wanted to see how that was going to go with her family and they at the time many of you weren't on the board but that was denied. So you have it's it's kind of really is a case by case and what the the purpose of the request is. Um

but I I I get it. I understand I explain that to the to the employee and um it's a tough one. It is a tough one. But uh I understand Commissioner Adirus's concern. You may have someone that's disgruntled and gonna try to leave the organization and try a job or you know and if it works out they leave us and we just can't have people coming and going at you know

so yeah it's it's not easy. It's a it's a tough decision.

uh if there's a way to craft it that would be that would protect us.

I think that's what the discussion should be moving forward. But but getting back to it, we're looking at this specific situation, but I'm just saying let somebody let's say somebody came here, submits a request for a leave uh for 6 months, whatever, and they say it's, you know, the reason is I have personal issues I have to deal with.

What are you going to say? What are your personal issues?

you know, I just got to take care of my personal now. He goes out, we will prove to leave. You say, "Oh, we don't know what's going on. Let it go." And then while he's out, he gets off at a better job and he takes it. What do you do in that situation? You just approve it. You approve the leave and he ends up going to get another job and takes it. This

one he's saying is, "I'm going to go look for a better job." So, he's being honest. So, I'm not I'm not sure where it is. I mean, if if that's not something that we want these employees to do, be able to take a leave of absence to pursue professional jobs or other jobs, then they should state it in there. That's not what we're going to do it for.

Well, and that's if that I think that's what the issue is, right?

As we do with other comply with with the language, right? Comply with the language. So, if we're going to go by compliance of this, we'd have to vote this down.

So, could I cut in one more? I I cannot stand not having an answer. That's not how I operate in life. If I want black and white, let's fix it. Right? So, I don't know that I can vote for it with a policy as standard because those two issues. He's looking for December off.

Right.

Is it inappropriate to say we either have a new policy or we don't? A policy that reflects what the general idea is here, right? Being flexible, being um compromising And if we don't have that policy in place as currently constituted, we can't prove I can't prove it because of those two provisions are pretty clear in my mind, right? And I'm I'm I'm I'm always willing to compromise and work. But as

written, it makes it really difficult.

We have a month. If there's a policy that works for all the parties, great.

If it doesn't, I think there's a reason why you don't get requests like this.

because most people aren't trying to keep one foot on both sides of the fence. They're either in or they're out.

So, right. So, with respect to this board, you've been put in a difficult position because a good employee is trying to hold on to both sides and I don't blame him, but that's an unfair position for us to be put in. Um, so it either follows the policy or it doesn't. And if it's a new policy that works, great. If it's not and it's this one and we have to say no,

I wish him well. I really do appreciate his time here and what he's given. But well and and I I respect that uh Commissioner Burns and all due respect so many of the decisions we have to make are gray. If everything was black and white, it would be a a great organization. Every day I have to make decisions with full of gray in the in the equation. Um, and what I don't want

to get into and and and with all due respect to to Mr. Dilva is we can't be changing policies every time it doesn't work. It's it's worked. I've been here going on next month will be 35 years the policy worked. So I don't want to get into as much as I respect them and as fond of him and and the board. Um, we we go stop changing policies every time.

It's an uncomfortable decision to make.

I'm I'm I want to make it clear. I'm perfectly comfortable being uncom as you said the black and white.

It doesn't pass muster. So, we either change it or we don't. I'm okay either way.

Right.

I'm not shying away from a tough decision. This is black and white. He doesn't meet the standard.

It's just it's it's but it's it's it's not that you're shying, but it's difficult sometimes, right? the personal part of it, not so much for you guys, but I I work with these people every day. So, there's a personal bond that you create. So, it's it's and that's where maybe more of the gray area comes in for me is as I always, as I've said, I put what's in the best interest of the

housing authority first, as you do, but it's not always easy, right? You work with them, I don't. So, it's a different relationship. I I get that.

I I I would say at this point without if there's further discussion then so be it. I don't want to take away anybody's what I can tell you what I'm going to offer to him is I don't know what he has for any personal leave on the books put in for it. We're only in October. It's December. We'll approve approve the personal leave the vacation leave. And if he has that much hopefully there's

your there's your 30 days or even if it's 20 days right and the job is protected and and I just want to be clear on that um director. So if he does that, that doesn't come to us. That's more of an HR thing he's putting in he's putting in to take his time, right? And then he's putting it in with ample ample notice.

Yeah.

So I'm hoping I don't know up top of my head what he has available so far.

Hopefully it's a sufficient amount.

probably not 30 days, but if it's even close to it, should give him what he needs.

I think that's his option and and our option right now if it's to have an action. My motion would be that we deny it simply because it doesn't follow the policy. Um if we don't need an action and it just moves on, then it moves on.

he withdraws or whatever it is. But I think at this moment we need an action.

Well, it wasn't for discussion. I don't see anything on here. So, this says discussion and action. So, we had a discussion. That leaves me to believe we got to deal with it. It's in front of us.

I agree.

So, I made a motion that we deny.

Okay. A motion has been made to deny the request. Is there a second?

Second.

Motion made and seconded. Is there any further discussion?

I think we need a roll call vote on this.

Um, Chairman Burns to deny. Yes.

Yes. Commissioner Maderas to deny. Yes.

To deny. Yep. Commissioner Bentley to deny. Yes.

Commissioner Underh Hill to deny. Yes.

Chairman Long to deny. Yes.

The request has been denied with some regret.

Get to the next business.

New business modernization change order number three for elevator modernization cabs three and four at Kumadirus Tower.

Change it number three is a credit of $32,376 to the contract for removal and replacement of all handrails adjacent to the elevator to accommodate elevator work which is $2,284 and for remaining sump pump pit work at $30,92 for both credits.

Motion to approve the change order number three for the elevated modernization caps three and four at common hours. Second motion made and seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

I opposed.

Next order certificate of completion consolidated for elevator modernization at cabs 3 and four at the cumad towers.

The general contract to Ketta Contracting Company, Inc. completed all work items. The final contract amount was $1,374,424.

Entertain a motion to approve.

I'll make a motion uh to approve the cert certificate of completion consolidated for elevator modernization at cabs three and four at Cardinal Maduras Towers for the the general contractor Kleta Contracting Company uh Incorporated uh completed work all all work items. The final contract amount for1,374,424.

Second.

Motion made seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

I opposed.

A certificate for substantial completion for the apartment conversions phase 3 12th floor level at Codel Maderas Towers, General Contractor, Kleta Contracting Company, Inc. substantially completed the work on September 18th, 2025.

I'll make a motion to approve approve the certificate of substantial completion for apartment conversions phase 3 12th floor Cardinal Maderas Towers.

Second.

Motion made and seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

I opposed.

Certificate of substantial completion for the fire alarm systems in community building at Father Vincent Defario Village. The general contractor Lari Electrical Contractors Inc.

substantially completed the work on October 3rd, 2025.

I entertain a motion to approve.

I'll make a motion to approve the certificate of substantial completion for fire alarm system community building, Father Defario Village.

Second.

Motion remains seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

I opposed.

Certificate of final completion for the replacement of failing gas lines phase 2024 at Maple Gardens EOHLC number 095192.

The general contractor Hydrome Mechanical Inc. completed all work items. The final contract amount was $115,0006 $115,645.

This will be if we approve it will be contingent upon the approval from EOHLC.

I'll make a motion uh for approval uh contingent upon final approval from EOHLC for a certificate of final completion for the replacement of failing gas lines phase 2024 at Maple Gardens.

Second.

Motion made and seconded. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

Opposed?

Permission to advertise bids for boiler replacement at the Frank B. Aloe vera Apartments CFP 2026 and bathroom renovations at Heritage Heights CFP 2026.

Entertain a motion to approve.

I'll make a motion to grant permission to advertise for bids for boiler replacement at all of our apartments and bathroom renovations at Heritage Heights.

Do I have a second?

Second.

Motion made and seconded. Oh, any discussion? All those in favor? I opposed.

Procurement HT boiler preventative maintenance services, Sunset Hill and Heritage Heights. Recommended action is to award the contract to SAMCO in the amount of $19,740.

I have a motion to award the contract.

I'll make a motion to award the contract in the amount of $19,740.

Second.

Motion made seconded.

Discussion.

All those in favor? I opposed.

Miscellaneous update the for housing authority personnel policy manual.

Uh have we updated that?

We did. That's okay. And was there any change to the leaf?

Recommended action is for approval.

Motion uh to approve the updated Fall River Housing Authority personnel policy manual.

I have a second.

Second.

Motion made seconded. Any discussion?

If I could just add um we've been working on this for a long time. Elizabeth Burns, our human resource director, and MAC Gallagher done a ton of work on this. And this was to once we uh settled the unit B and C contracts uh last spring.

We always want to try to mirror the personnel manual to the collective bargaining agreements as best we can.

Obviously, negotiations go on sometimes or they get resolved. We have another unit A that will be starting possibly a unit D.

um but also some of the um dates and threat uh dollar amounts for insurance purposes. Um we updated we added a social media policy, but this way it's more consistent. Um union members uh follow their collective bargaining agreement and if for some reason there's no language in that, it should be covered here. uh and vice versa. Uh but then this also covers everyone union and non-union uh members.

So um it needed to be updated. It's a challenge um with everything else going on and collective auditing agreements negotiating. So now we think we got it to where we it's updated anyway to where we need to be. So I think that's important. So, thank you to Liz and thank you to Martha for their hard work on this.

Thank you for the good work. Any further discussion?

Do we have the motion for to approve?

Yep.

Yes.

Motion been made and seconded. All those in favor?

Opposed?

HUD flat rent schedule effective 10125 and 1126.

I entertain a motion to approve. Make a motion to approve approve the flat rent schedule.

Second.

Second.

Motion made second. Any discussion?

All those in favor?

Opposed?

We have any other business before this committee?

That said, I'll entertain a motion to adjurnn.

Motion to second.

Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All those in favor? I opposed.

We are adjourned.